The Separation

[00:00:00] Never Again, Never Again, Never Again, Never Again, Never Again, Never Again

[00:00:09] Join Dr. Paius Kamau and the Coalition Against Global Genocide as we journey across the globe,

[00:00:15] taking a deep look at past, present and impending genocides and mass atrocities.

[00:00:20] Listen to experts who discuss not only the history but also the resiliency and mental health of

[00:00:25] people who are recovering from these heinous acts. Learn how we can move from bystander

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[00:00:36] The Separation

[00:00:44] Kay, good afternoon to you.

[00:00:47] Good afternoon.

[00:00:48] It is wonderful to see you and just wonderful to talk to you.

[00:00:53] The organization that I do this for is called the Coalition Against Global Genocide.

[00:01:00] I would like the listeners to know that your name is Kay Yuen,

[00:01:06] you're of a Japanese region and that your family, your siblings were interned

[00:01:16] during the Second World War. So even though really I mean the Japanese internment wasn't

[00:01:25] genocide as such but it is sort of along the periphery along the sides of a genocide in many

[00:01:34] ways. It's mistreatment of people by another people because that's essentially what it was.

[00:01:41] So just tell us a little bit, just a little bit about yourself.

[00:01:48] Well first of all I was an infant going into camp so I don't remember camp at all because

[00:01:57] I came out a couple, I was only a couple years old when I came out of camp. But my older brothers,

[00:02:04] I've got six older brothers and sisters that went through high school,

[00:02:09] went through elementary school while they were in camp, while they were interned.

[00:02:14] And so they're the ones that have told me a lot about camp.

[00:02:18] And actually you know what the funny part is none of them had a hatred for the camp.

[00:02:24] Actually they kind of enjoyed the camp. They had a lot of freedom in the camp and I think they had

[00:02:31] more freedom in the camp than they did when they were at home because you know we as parents tell

[00:02:37] the kids don't stay out late, make sure you don't run around on the nape. Well when you're

[00:02:42] in camp you're safe so my brothers and sisters they ran around all over the place on the camp

[00:02:50] and nobody really cared because they knew that they couldn't go beyond the barbed wire fence.

[00:02:57] Yeah right, but of course I mean they were confined in what they could do

[00:03:01] because I think there wasn't that much in the way of amenities I don't think.

[00:03:07] Well you know my older brothers and sisters, my brother that's above me is 16 years older

[00:03:13] than me so I kind of grew up as an only child. My oldest brothers were they were already in their

[00:03:20] 20s when I was born. Yeah yeah. I just hear a lot about them but they had nothing really

[00:03:26] negative to say about camp. The only thing I think that was sad for my dad, you know my

[00:03:33] dad is first generation from Japan. Yes. He built and worked himself up to build a house for my

[00:03:43] family, owned a car, had a job you know when he went into camp all that was taken away.

[00:03:51] I mean he came on camp with nothing. That's another question I wanted to ask you. How did

[00:03:57] you know? I mean did they one day simply say okay you're going to the camp now or did they

[00:04:04] give the Japanese a notice okay you have four or five days to go and you're going to be going

[00:04:10] to the camp. Do you know how it was done? Well I know they were only given less than a week

[00:04:16] to pack up whatever they needed to pack up and apparently they all got on some kind of a bus

[00:04:23] then they got on a train and none of them knew where they were going to go. My parents ended

[00:04:28] up in Tulalik Lake. They didn't leave California basically. Some of their other friends went to

[00:04:33] Manzanar. They all went out of the state. They all went different places even our friends that

[00:04:39] were in camp, their sons were in the American military. They're fighting in the war but yet

[00:04:46] their parents were put into camp. I mean I don't remember camp hardly at all except everything that

[00:04:54] my parents and my brothers and sisters told me about it you know because I was always interested

[00:05:00] in the camp as I was growing up because I didn't remember any of it so I was always asking

[00:05:06] questions. I even gave a lecture at the school where my kids go their private school

[00:05:12] about internment because I have a nephew that's almost my age. He knew nothing about the

[00:05:19] internment camp because American history books never taught it. So they don't acknowledge it do

[00:05:25] they? They don't acknowledge it. My nephews go say that's not true they were in a camp. I said

[00:05:31] yeah your parents were in a camp. They were put away in a camp and they said well how come

[00:05:37] it's not part of history? I said because the government didn't allow it to be in history

[00:05:42] books at that time. So the internment lasted well after the war or when did it stop?

[00:05:57] All I know is the war started and before you knew it my parents went into a camp.

[00:06:04] I think you know the war started in the fall and by winter everybody was in a camp.

[00:06:10] Okay yeah and like we were saying before this internment really happened after

[00:06:19] the Japanese army bombed Pearl Harbor. I think it's worthwhile remembering that

[00:06:25] the war was going on in Europe. You know Hitler and England were at war after the

[00:06:36] Pearl Harbor. That's when FDR and the United States officially went into the second world war.

[00:06:46] Yeah and my oldest brothers two of them were fighting in they were in Korea. They were

[00:06:52] already in the military and they were in Korea. Our entire family was kind of scattered around

[00:06:58] a little bit. So in essence therefore is everybody that had a Japanese origin was

[00:07:07] placed in concentration camps? Yes. No exceptions. Someone told me that the people that lived

[00:07:17] in the middle of the United States didn't have to go to camp. The ones that were on the west

[00:07:25] coast you know the ones near a border are the ones especially west coast. Everybody near the

[00:07:33] west coast up there is all of them had to go to camp. Yeah yeah well I'm just gonna say I

[00:07:38] mean like you say I mean people were sent to different camps and but I'm just wondering how

[00:07:44] they decided who would go to what camp you know or whether people from the same area

[00:07:51] presumably if they came from San Diego whether they went to one camp and people from Los Angeles

[00:07:57] went to another camp. You know here in Colorado I do know that we had a camp here in Colorado.

[00:08:06] I think so too. Sorry I'm sorry. Japanese in Hawaii you were put in a camp too in Hawaii.

[00:08:13] Yeah the camps then you had a barbed wire around the camp.

[00:08:20] Couldn't go out of the camp. Nope they provided food housing and school for all the kids.

[00:08:32] Was there any mistreatment of people? You know what my parents never told us that there was

[00:08:39] any mistreatment. Okay well I mean being being confined is a mistreatment enough I think. Yeah

[00:08:46] yeah and like you said you say all the property was that was he actually confiscated

[00:08:52] by the government or what happened to the property that they left behind?

[00:08:57] Well almost everybody lost their property. They just were asked to leave got picked up left.

[00:09:04] Luckily my dad had a really good American friend that saved his car and put his car in his garage

[00:09:12] so when my dad finally came out he at least had a car. Yeah how about the house? No we had no

[00:09:20] house. So I'm the only one because I was an infant coming out of the war. Yeah I was with

[00:09:29] my mom and dad. My brothers and my sisters all were scattered all over to different people's homes.

[00:09:38] They went out to work because I think as we know in America usually homes are bought through

[00:09:44] the bank you know you have a mortgage yeah you know so the question of course is also

[00:09:51] when you buy a car most people don't buy cash so I'm just wondering in terms of

[00:09:57] these poor people's credit what happened to that? Well I think a lot of them who did own property

[00:10:04] and owned things you know from being from Japan they don't know all the legalities. They lost

[00:10:09] most everything you know luckily my dad paid cash for his car so he had a car when he got out.

[00:10:18] Yeah at least they had a home which is they had housing they had food they had schooling

[00:10:29] and so all those things were provided by the government I suppose. Yes. How about teachers

[00:10:36] for schools? They did have teachers that they brought in every day for school

[00:10:43] and if there is someone that is actually in the camp that has a teaching certificate they were

[00:10:50] also able to teach. My dad because he was a good cook worked in the mess hall he was always

[00:10:57] one of the major cooks in the mess hall. Yeah was he paid for that? Nope. Oh dear.

[00:11:05] I mean he got food we got food. Yeah yeah you mentioned something about your brother

[00:11:13] your siblings not being very bitter they don't complain too much about you know you're being

[00:11:20] interned. Was this true of the other Japanese also? I mean that there was no bitterness?

[00:11:26] You know what it mostly has to do with Japanese culture. Okay. You know in Japan

[00:11:34] you know there aren't a lot of rioting there aren't a lot of bickering I mean there's not a

[00:11:39] lot of demonstrations in Japan and Japanese people in Japan are just taught to have a lot

[00:11:46] of respect of everybody else. I was brought up that way no matter if somebody did something to

[00:11:54] me you know my mom would say you know what you're lucky you're not like them.

[00:11:59] You know and I think it's just that way of learning respect for people that Japanese people

[00:12:10] had no complaints when they came out of camp. I always asked my mom my mom came to the United

[00:12:16] States when she was 18 and had seven children and I asked her why her English is so bad

[00:12:25] you know she doesn't speak English she speaks it but not really well and she said you know what

[00:12:31] when we came out of camp we were too embarrassed to talk to the Americans

[00:12:38] people stuck together and we all just spoke Japanese. I didn't speak English

[00:12:43] until I started first grade. Yeah you're speaking well now. Oh thank you

[00:12:48] thank you. I hope so I used to be a school teacher so I hope so.

[00:12:56] So tell me something a little bit more about this attitude this Japanese attitude

[00:13:03] does it have something to do with being... Japanese are mostly they're either Buddhist or

[00:13:11] Christian. No of course I mean with the Japanese I think they call it Shintoism I think.

[00:13:19] Shinto no I don't know. Yeah yeah yeah I'm Christian so I don't know that much about

[00:13:28] well you were the maybe the point I'm trying to get at is that even though you're Christian

[00:13:36] I think there's an internal core that remains inside you and the core is really a Buddhist

[00:13:45] core it goes several generations back as you know. Yeah could be. And all that which you are

[00:13:53] taught along the way it may be it may sound different but really in many ways I think we

[00:14:01] kind of adopt it to who we were and what our traditions were. And this is true it's true

[00:14:09] of Africans who are Christian now but they have their own African faith and beliefs you know from

[00:14:15] way way way back you know back when. And to me I'm trying to understand for example why is

[00:14:22] it that the Japanese who are not mad and angry at the American government because they should

[00:14:29] rightfully they should have been angry you know they should have been mad I mean

[00:14:33] I think along the way they were paid reparations weren't they?

[00:14:38] Well you know by the time they did that my mom and dad were gone so they didn't get any

[00:14:43] reparation yeah. But but the children of the people who are in the internment camps

[00:14:48] did get did get reparations. They did yes. Yeah and so that's another interesting point

[00:14:55] because nobody nobody is going to pay you just because they're nice. I think you have to fight

[00:15:02] for it you know so somebody among the Japanese community must afford to get anything out of the

[00:15:11] American government. Well there are some Japanese senators yes and congresspeople

[00:15:19] and I think they're the ones that started the fight for that yes exactly yeah yeah.

[00:15:25] Otherwise I don't think they would have gotten it but you know you asked me about why there

[00:15:30] was no rioting there was a you know I think about Japan okay the culture of Japan is so

[00:15:38] different you know it's one of the safest places to live do you know little kids kid

[00:15:44] that are five years old they go to school by themselves you know we won't ever let our kids

[00:15:50] walk down the block anymore by themselves you know we have to be with them we have to pick

[00:15:56] them in a car. Kids in Japan they ride the subway at five years old by themselves

[00:16:04] yeah you know what but they have a thing in Japan always look after each other yes

[00:16:11] everybody knows that child has to get to school and every single person on the subway to try

[00:16:18] make sure that nobody touches that little girl yes or that little boy make sure he gets to

[00:16:24] school even though they don't know the kid their job is to make sure that that child

[00:16:29] gets to school safely and it's kind of an inbred kind of a feeling that all Japanese people

[00:16:36] have that's a very wonderful trait in other words than things like depression do not play any role

[00:16:45] at all I mean are the Japanese ever depressed you know what I have never witnessed my dad

[00:16:55] being depressed or angry okay or even angry no but I never had him ever felt the bitterness

[00:17:06] yeah well and you know I think I think I think in many ways I mean that's that's good

[00:17:11] I think feeling bad and being very very angry and depressed harms you more than that it harms

[00:17:19] the people that you're angry at there's something to be said about acceptance accepting that which

[00:17:24] is and going on so to speak when the Japanese then came out of their camps were they just

[00:17:34] allowed to uh to go out of the camp or was there some help I have no idea because I don't

[00:17:41] ever remember leaving barbara fence area you know I think my parents never left either until

[00:17:49] we were allowed to leave okay so did you remember like how old you may have been

[00:17:56] oh when I left camp I think I was only like maybe not even two oh okay so that little

[00:18:03] okay do you know what your parents did after the internment where did they my mom was busy

[00:18:10] taking care of seven kids okay and my dad worked in the mess hall as a cook okay okay

[00:18:19] I mean that's what everybody all everybody was supposed to have some kind of a job

[00:18:23] especially the men yeah yeah yeah so which town where did you guys go where where did

[00:18:30] your family go who do you like I'm just trying to think in terms of the transition

[00:18:36] you know from the camp to uh you know to this post-war life yeah and I'm just wondering

[00:18:44] how that was decided upon for example I mean who decided to go where or did they just stay

[00:18:52] where where the camps were and then maybe begin their businesses there I do know that

[00:18:58] some Japanese have farms here in Colorado for example a place called Brighton you know just

[00:19:05] north of uh north of Denver and do is there much discussion among among Japanese

[00:19:12] about that time well you know my dad I know that when he left camp yeah it was just the

[00:19:21] three of us my two brothers were in the military my other brothers my sisters all had

[00:19:27] to go to San Francisco and live with an American family and was kind of like their maid

[00:19:35] they were they were sent there to be their maid so everybody got scattered so for the first five

[00:19:41] years of my growing up life I didn't have any brothers or sisters that I grew up with yeah

[00:19:49] when my dad finally bought his own farm yes yeah my dad was able to buy you know he was a farmer

[00:19:58] five years after the war five or six years after working really hard a farmer that really

[00:20:06] liked my dad his name was Peter Garbedian said you know what I'm gonna help you buy

[00:20:13] a ranch and he said the ranch across the street is gonna go up for sale I want to help you buy that

[00:20:21] so he helped my dad buy that ranch and my dad in 20 years took that ranch

[00:20:30] and made it into the biggest packing company in northern California we had a big shed a lot of

[00:20:38] workers a lot of packers a lot of pickers a lot of people always on the farm I remember growing up

[00:20:46] I had to go work in the shed you know yeah yeah peaches and do all that kind of stuff too

[00:20:52] my dad went from nothing and built this huge packing company yeah yeah the funny part is

[00:21:00] you know him and Peter Garbedian were really good friends this Peter Garbedian became

[00:21:05] like a mentor to my dad and when Peter Garbedian passed away of course you know

[00:21:12] we didn't have any more contact this is really amazing my dad got really sick

[00:21:20] before he passed away we had to put him in the hospital and my brother said we're gonna take him

[00:21:25] to the private hospital in Fresno when I got there when I drove down to the hospital my

[00:21:32] brother said you're not gonna believe it go look at your dad's hospital room because this hospital

[00:21:39] is all built on donation above the doors of all the rooms are all the donors names

[00:21:47] they knew nothing about my dad the people in the hospital they just put him in a room

[00:21:53] above his door was named Peter Garbedian the guy that started him in farming the guy

[00:22:01] he ended up in Peter Garbedian's donated room which is a coincidence and when he did pass away

[00:22:10] when we went to the mortuary you know they have the guest book right right right first

[00:22:15] two names that were on the guest book they came to view my dad's body were his sons

[00:22:22] the two Garbedian sons amazing isn't that amazing yeah really my brother said you're not going to

[00:22:29] believe what room they put him in and I looked at that room and I thought wow well that's a

[00:22:35] that's an amazing story of assimilation becoming an American you know because

[00:22:43] that's essentially what it is and when the people around you embrace you and take you

[00:22:49] and they help you and you become a part of the community I think that's the most important

[00:22:54] thing really you know that we become part of the part of the communities where we live

[00:23:00] well that to me is the greatest gift that my parents gave me yeah yeah it's to just be kind

[00:23:08] to people give whatever you have that you can give because my dad was always like that his

[00:23:17] funeral was so big they filled the church plus the hall next door when my dad passed away and

[00:23:26] he came here with nothing yeah at his funeral my mom said to me he said look around this is

[00:23:33] your dad's life yes okay let me thank you again very very much for sharing your family's history

[00:23:41] and also the history of Japanese people who are mistreated for no reason really

[00:23:49] the never again podcast is presented by the coalition against global genocide

[00:23:55] and its mission to educate motivate and empower individuals and communities to oppose

[00:24:00] genocide and crimes against humanity