The Evolution of the African American Experience and Identity (Part II )

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[00:01:27] So once again, good morning, Dr. Butler. Dr. Butler Good morning. Dr. Butler It is wonderful to continue our dialogue again. And this is our second session. And I would like us to talk about the role of history in that which happened 200 years ago, 300 years ago, still affects us as a people, as a society.

[00:01:55] And even though some people like to think that which happened yesterday, happened 200 years ago, came and went. My contention, I posit, that's not true. So I would like to hear your view. Dr. Butler

[00:02:13] There are many different statements about history and history repeating itself and the importance of knowing one's history so that we are protected from the missteps of the past. Dr. Butler And yes, it is vital and important that we study history, that we know the dynamics of history.

[00:02:42] And this is so we are able to have a more hopeful, healthy future. Dr. Butler And I think it is so important. I live by that understanding that if we don't know our past, we will be doomed to repeat it. Dr. Butler

[00:03:04] And of course, we're always speaking about the negative, painful things that have happened to us that we are doomed to continue in our suffering. It is very important that we have not just a critical lens on history, but an appropriate interpretive lens on history. Dr. Butler

[00:03:28] And so when we start talking about African American history, for which we are in the month that has been set aside and dedicated to studying our past and honoring our heroes and sheroes and ancestors and the things that made us who we are as a statement of strength.

[00:04:19] Dr. Butler Dr. Butler And so we have no context for understanding and interpreting our present and we're lost for going forward. Yes, and I think that's so important. Dr. Butler Dr. Butler We really to know where you're going. I think it is wonderful or it's important and imperative to know from where you came from.

[00:04:45] And that I have as in my writing, for example, in my columns, I always trying to infuse the sense of history. Dr. Butler In other words, that which we are doing today is oftentimes a reflection of what happened in the past.

[00:05:03] And like I'm saying, we do have this tendency in America to somehow discard what happened in the past and to think because it came and went, we're going to forget it. Dr. Butler Just clean, clean, clean our culture and go forward happily skipping along the way into the future. And that always gets us into trouble, I think.

[00:05:29] I believe, I think many of America's problems are because America likes to forget what happened. And that I call that an amnesia. Dr. Butler Amnesia, American amnesia. And I think maybe you may want to discuss a tiny bit about what would be amnesia in the black community, for example. What have we forgotten in our society? Dr. Butler

[00:05:57] That definitely expresses itself generationally as to what has been forgotten. Dr. Butler And the forgetfulness is regularly, I think, based upon what is being presented as the value system. And looking back, you're just grabbing an easy way of expressing what I'm presenting at the moment.

[00:06:26] Looking back, there'll be an interpretation of Martin Luther King Jr. And another kind of interpretation of Leek El Shabazz, Leek El Shabazz, better known as Malcolm X.

[00:06:43] And depending on what one values and how one understands oneself within one's current circumstances within this culture, you will appeal to one over the other.

[00:06:58] And so you will have a generation that will say, Malcolm X is the way to look at history and the way we should move forward because he was willing to stand up and fight and King was not willing to stand up and fight.

[00:07:16] Well, those become interpretations of the two men and interpretations of the circumstances out of which the two men were operating as though one was coward and the other was not. And those are misinterpretations.

[00:07:37] So I'm saying it's the lens that you bring to the history that says what is valued and how we ought to address our current circumstances. And I like the way the late Dr. James Cone looked at those two men to say for himself, he couldn't have one without the other.

[00:08:03] He needed, this is Cone said, he needed both of those men for him to accurately and appropriately interpret American life and to chart the next step as we're working towards liberation. He being a black liberation theologian. Yeah. That's really wonderful, wonderful that you brought those two characters, historical characters.

[00:08:34] And I think that's a great point. I think that's a great point. One of the things that I think when I'm thinking about nonviolence, Mahatma Gandhi's violence, for example, is the fact that how can you be nonviolent when you're dealing with a Nazi, for example? I don't think the Gandhian system would have worked in Germany under Hitler, for example.

[00:08:58] It worked for Martin Luther King, because somehow I think our system has those checks and balances. I think, I continue to think that anyway. Yeah. The other question that I have for you is what can the community do? What is it that, does the community have a duty to publicize the truth?

[00:09:26] And how can the community do that? How can black people, can they do more than they are doing at the moment? You're talking to a religious leader. And so one thing that comes to mind immediately is truth shall make you free. And so we must declare the truth and we must live the truth. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

[00:09:55] And so when you're asking what can the people do? Mm hmm. Well, when we were talking in our other segment, one thing I thought about was, well, what have we fought for in the past? One thing we fought for in the past was the right to vote. So what can we do? We can vote. What happened in this last election?

[00:10:19] Many of us chose to not vote, saying that the system was not worthy of their effort to cast a vote. And now we are where we are. Yes. Yes. No, I agree. I agree. I think maybe I just wanted to hear you reemphasize that point, that we do owe it to ourselves to try to right that which is wrong.

[00:10:46] And we can also depend on the others. We, we know we, they do try to help, but I think the primary primary function that we have is to move our own agenda, so to speak. I see some light at the end of the tunnel. Light at the end of the tunnel. I want to say yes.

[00:11:14] However, I think my reality is more that light at the end of the tunnel is probably the size of a pinhole right now. As opposed to being the entrance of the cave or the exit from the cave. Why are you so pessimistic?

[00:11:35] I think the, the dynamics of our lives in the recent, most recent election revealed a lot about what we are struggling with today. So that there were many African American, I'll go with the men, because that was a strong

[00:12:02] critique during the election process that many African American men were, were promising to, to cast votes for President Trump. Right. And their promise to cast votes for President Trump was coming out of their frustration that the former administrations, the Democratic Party did not live into its promises that life

[00:12:30] for them was much worse than it was during the former administration with President Trump when he was previously President. Yeah. And so there was a sense of economics, economically I'm worse off now. And so I'm moving to Donald Trump to become president because he's going to help change my economic reality.

[00:12:58] I think that may only have been part of the truth. I think that there needed to be a further examination that were they more willing to vote for what was normative in Donald Trump as opposed to what was new in Kamala Harris.

[00:13:25] And so how much did sexism as well as colorism play in their decision making for their futures? And that's so true. That's so true. So we, I suppose we have to begin re-educating ourselves or not necessarily re-educating, but

[00:13:50] I think having a discussion, a dialogue, I think we covered pretty much everything. Although we could spend another day talking about different issues. I think that the underlying issues that are motivating you to have this conversation during this month related to knowing one's history and emphasizing the importance of history related to

[00:14:17] education, which I'm separating from knowing one's history, that there is an educational process that really does encourage us to know who we are. That helps us to identify where we are within our culture and within the larger society.

[00:14:40] That's the educational process that we need to engage in and not continue to be victims of what Carter G. Woodson identified as our miseducation. And so I think that's another underlying piece of what you are stressing at this time. And to remain conscious because you said amnesia.

[00:15:08] There is this tendency to desire to forget the pain of the past because the pains of the past keep us victimized and keep us often in a position of shame.

[00:15:27] And you're saying encouraging, I think that you're encouraging that we not allow ourselves to be victimized by a past, but rather to confront the past.

[00:15:41] And in that's what I'm saying it's very important that we have the proper interpretation of the past and not see those things that have been identified as shameful as becoming who we are and embracing shame.

[00:15:59] And to see the strength that that was a part of those past experiences and embrace the strength and move forward from that which we are identifying as the problem from a position of strength and power. That's what I hear you really encouraging. And I want to affirm those things.

[00:16:24] And one last point that I would like to make before we leave is that the black American people, some of the strongest people in the world.

[00:16:40] I think having suffered what they suffered and gone through it successfully to emerge at this particular moment should give them this pride and this joy that they are really the chosen of the world. And that's the truth. If I may say so. If I may say so. That's my opinion anyway.

[00:17:04] Whenever I look at the black American community, these are the toughest people that history could have created. And with that, I bid you adieu. And thank you very much for allowing us to spend this short time together. Thank you, my friend. Thank you. Thank you.

[00:17:39] Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.