The Coalition Against Global Genocide

[00:00:00] Never Again

[00:00:02] Never Again

[00:00:04] Never Again

[00:00:06] Never Again

[00:00:08] Join Dr. Pius Camau and the Coalition Against Global Genocide, as we journey across the globe, taking a deep look at past, present and impending genocides and mass atrocities.

[00:00:20] Listen to experts who discuss not only the history but also the resiliency and mental health of people who are recovering from these heinous acts.

[00:00:28] Learn how we can move from bystander to active involvement, calling out genocidal acts where you are.

[00:00:36] The Coalition Against Global Genocide

[00:00:44] This afternoon our guest is Rose Duman. She is the founder and the Executive Director of Coalition Against Global Genocide.

[00:00:56] Rose has done a good number of things in her life, all of them wonderful of course.

[00:01:02] She worked with the Congresswoman, Pat Shroder. She worked with Mayor Wellington Webb in the past.

[00:01:10] She was also associated and worked with State Representative Susan Williams.

[00:01:18] This is merely a touch of what she has done. She has done much, much, much more.

[00:01:26] Can you tell the listener something a bit more about your activity, Rose?

[00:01:34] That was my political activities. I probably can't remember also. I volunteered a lot.

[00:01:42] I also directed the Holocaust Awareness Institute at the University of Denver, which brought me into where I am today.

[00:01:54] I actually founded the first regional office of the America-Israel Friendship League, an organization that was low.

[00:02:02] The national organization was in New York City.

[00:02:06] I learned about them and decided that I needed to bring it here to Colorado.

[00:02:12] Its mission was to promote better understanding between the people of Israel, all the people of Israel, and all the people of the United States of Colorado.

[00:02:22] One of the questions somebody may think about, especially given today's activities, what's happening today,

[00:02:32] is that this institution, or organization, Israel-American, did it have anything to do with the Palestinians?

[00:02:40] No. Yes. Well, first of all, it was not a Jewish organization. It was people, all people.

[00:02:48] We had people of every community, politicians, all kinds of people working with us here locally and in New York.

[00:02:56] So when I said all peoples, yes, we worked with everybody in Israel, promoting better understanding of both peoples.

[00:03:06] And I left that to move on to other things because while I was there, just my memory, thanks for triggering my memory,

[00:03:17] I was asked a couple of times to direct the American Jewish Committee, which was a coalition building organization.

[00:03:25] If you notice, I'm always working with lots of people, not just people in the Jewish community.

[00:03:31] And they had asked me to apply and I said no, no, no.

[00:03:36] And then again they came back and I said okay.

[00:03:39] And so I applied and I did get that job with the American Jewish Committee.

[00:03:44] So I have had several, a lot of different things but I really feel that all these positions, whether they were volunteer or paid,

[00:03:55] I learned a lot and grew so that I was able to be where I am today.

[00:04:02] I wasn't schooled, I didn't go to school to learn how to do this. I learned from other people.

[00:04:08] Before you established the coalition against the global genocide, did you have another organization or did you have a different name before?

[00:04:17] Yes, we were called the, try to remember, Colorado Coalition for Genocide Awareness and Action.

[00:04:28] And those are the two main words, awareness and action.

[00:04:34] If I remember right, didn't we have an organization against slavery and genocide? Slavery and genocide.

[00:04:44] We had programs for that.

[00:04:46] Okay but that's a part of the organization.

[00:04:49] So if you know, we could talk about that a little bit later I guess.

[00:04:52] Right, right.

[00:04:53] And why we went into that and maybe because you brought up the slavery.

[00:04:58] I would like if I may talk about why, where my activism started. That's important to me.

[00:05:10] My father was a rabbi and we lived in the, his first pulpit was in New Jersey and he was asked to come to a pulpit in Virginia, Newport News, Virginia.

[00:05:23] Or as they say, New Pit News, Virginia. And these were amazing years.

[00:05:29] I was a young, I was probably in middle school at the time and it was very, those were the segregation years.

[00:05:38] I was thrown into a situation where we were schools, everything was separated.

[00:05:46] But what was even more important was that the synagogue where my father was going to take, where she took this position, the synagogue owned the home that we were going to move into.

[00:05:58] From the north, from New Jersey. And obviously before we got there a family moved out.

[00:06:06] A family moved out and sold to an African American family.

[00:06:12] Therefore the entire block changed. We were the only white family on that block.

[00:06:19] Didn't bother us obviously, this was fine.

[00:06:23] But a seventh grade teacher, I still remember her, I can still see her.

[00:06:27] I have a picture that I used when I was with Dr. Martin Luther King, Colorado Holiday Commission.

[00:06:35] And the picture and this teacher, the seventh grade teacher got up.

[00:06:41] I mean stood in front of the class that said, Rosalind, is it true you live in a block full of, and I can't even say the word.

[00:06:48] The N word.

[00:06:49] And I said, yes ma'am. And I was very shy in those days but I perked up.

[00:06:55] Yes ma'am, and what's wrong with that?

[00:06:58] I don't remember what she answered me. I think she was probably very shocked that I went back, you know, I spoke back to her like that.

[00:07:05] That incident made me the activist. I mean I did everything, the opposite.

[00:07:12] I went to the black fountains and drank. I went to the bathrooms and went in.

[00:07:16] I sat in the back of the bus. I was just, it made me so angry.

[00:07:21] And my father was very involved with this too.

[00:07:25] My father, my dear father who was just 50 years old when he passed away, he was very involved with his faith, our faith.

[00:07:35] But he was involved with everybody. All human beings as he said they're all God's children.

[00:07:43] And so that was the beginning. That was the beginning of my activism wanting to work with people and make a difference in people's lives.

[00:07:54] But...

[00:07:55] Yeah, well that's an interesting point that I being somebody who grew up elsewhere, I didn't grow up in America,

[00:08:08] I'm always surprised. We're not terribly, but you know, I know how racial prejudice is.

[00:08:16] When we say this is a fountain that is only for black people, for blacks, this one here is for whites.

[00:08:28] Clearly, a white person if they drank from a black fountain, nothing is ever done to them.

[00:08:38] That's true.

[00:08:40] Because I'm here to talk, I'm here to live.

[00:08:44] It's kind of interesting that when things are limited to a given group, especially a colored and black group,

[00:08:56] that's really the only place that they can go while the whites can go to whichever they want.

[00:09:07] Which bothered me. It just infuriated me to see this happen and my friends, oh my gosh.

[00:09:16] I mean they grew up in this racial, this bigotry life and being bigots and I find them very hard.

[00:09:24] Can you say something a bit more about your growing up?

[00:09:29] Well, I grew up in the south and lived there for quite some time in Newport News Virginia.

[00:09:35] Until my father, he was part of the rabbinical council. Jews in Russia were being terribly harassed.

[00:09:44] What Hitler did to Jews physically, they were culturally being killed out.

[00:09:52] Was this after the Second World War?

[00:09:55] Yes, after Stalin died.

[00:10:00] There were a group of rabbis who were asked to go to Russia, where the Soviet Union then.

[00:10:09] My father was one of five that went behind the Iron Curtain.

[00:10:13] He was there for a month.

[00:10:16] That's all they were supposed to be there for a month.

[00:10:19] Brezhnev was at that time, I believe.

[00:10:23] They ended up there two months and we thought we'd never see these people again.

[00:10:30] When they came back, these rabbis were asked to speak all over the place about the experiences they were meeting with Jews of silence they were called then.

[00:10:44] They were afraid to say anything, do anything.

[00:10:48] My father happened to come to Denver to speak and I was then going to be a senior in high school.

[00:10:55] That summer they decided to move to Denver and I didn't want to leave.

[00:11:02] Going into the senior year it's a hard time to leave but I came here.

[00:11:08] I came to Denver and then I went back to New York City for my college.

[00:11:14] Talking about Russia, I had two thoughts.

[00:11:20] One of them was that the number of Jews that fought with Lenin and Stalin,

[00:11:32] there's a very large number of Jewish intellectuals involved in the revolution.

[00:11:38] I'm not quite sure when things changed and turned where Stalin and his people went against Jews.

[00:11:48] It was after, they were there.

[00:11:51] I can't give you the exact time.

[00:11:53] These rabbis went there shortly.

[00:11:57] I'll give you the year.

[00:11:59] They went in 1957.

[00:12:03] Long after the Second World War.

[00:12:07] One thing that comes to my mind, a floating idea that comes to my mind is Babiyar for example.

[00:12:21] You have Tushenko for example.

[00:12:24] Yes, well let me tell you. My father wrote poetry and I don't have it with me now but he wrote a poem and said it to you.

[00:12:38] If any of you tell the listener what Babiyar was and who Yav Tushenko was?

[00:12:44] He was a poet in Russia.

[00:12:47] Babiyar was where before the camps, extermination by gas, they were taking people and shooting them.

[00:12:58] The Germans were taking people, Jews to these areas.

[00:13:03] Babiyar isn't the only place and shooting them and they just fell and they were told to take their clothes off

[00:13:10] and then they were shot and fell into these graves, mass graves.

[00:13:18] We have a Babiyar park here in Denver.

[00:13:22] It's a beautiful park and every year the Russians come to for the big execution.

[00:13:34] My father was involved with all this and he was my role model.

[00:13:42] He definitely had his blood running through me, there's no question.

[00:13:47] That's about a little bit more on a personal level.

[00:13:52] I came to Denver and gave my father such a hard time, I didn't want to leave.

[00:13:56] I ended up meeting my husband here.

[00:13:59] He was my late husband.

[00:14:01] He was a physician.

[00:14:03] He was a neurologist.

[00:14:05] We got married, had four children and growing up in Denver all grew up here.

[00:14:13] Unfortunately he passed away about 15 or 16 years ago now.

[00:14:21] He saw all the grandchildren but missing our seven great-grandchildren.

[00:14:29] I'm busy on both sides as a mother, grandmother and great-grandmother.

[00:14:34] I'm trying to somehow connect your life and those years in your beginnings to your activism

[00:14:44] and to your establishing the Coalition Against Global Genocide.

[00:14:50] You had a professor at DU that was a very strong activist, I think,

[00:14:59] that mentored you somewhat to a budge degree.

[00:15:04] Can you talk something or can you say something about him?

[00:15:07] Are we speaking about Van Nanda?

[00:15:09] We're verded in there.

[00:15:10] Or Van is one, or Gilbert?

[00:15:12] Gilbert.

[00:15:13] Art Gilbert.

[00:15:14] I was living in your art.

[00:15:16] Well, it's sort of integrated into the beginnings of the organization.

[00:15:22] And if it's okay with you I'd like to go into why.

[00:15:26] I'm going to go back to my childhood.

[00:15:29] I was young after the war and after the Holocaust.

[00:15:37] Many survivors came to Denver or we were in New Virginia at the time.

[00:15:42] Many survivors came to the area.

[00:15:45] My father met with these people in his office,

[00:15:50] but there were times when they came to the house.

[00:15:53] And even though I was very young, I listened to the conversation.

[00:16:01] And I picked up things, but they didn't talk a lot after leaving Europe and coming here

[00:16:10] and going through all those atrocities that they went through.

[00:16:14] They really could not speak at that time,

[00:16:17] but little by little they were able to open up.

[00:16:20] And that was my beginning of listening.

[00:16:26] But then I grew up because I grew up as I grew up.

[00:16:33] I had many friends who were survivors.

[00:16:37] And I listened to their stories.

[00:16:40] And the common denominator of all of that was there's a threat going through.

[00:16:46] Nobody was there to help them.

[00:16:49] Nobody, from their end there was nobody.

[00:16:53] We'd learn later that there were people trying to help,

[00:16:59] but for some reason it didn't work.

[00:17:02] And so we lost six million Jews and we lost four million other people, political people.

[00:17:10] Were there gypsies, homosexuals, disabled?

[00:17:16] Anybody that's not what Hitler liked, that's...

[00:17:19] It was a perfect area.

[00:17:23] So there were three miracles before I get into the organization,

[00:17:31] but three miracles.

[00:17:32] One day these people came out.

[00:17:34] These were my friends, they came out.

[00:17:37] They got out and she read all the stories and hear all their stories.

[00:17:41] It's a miracle.

[00:17:42] The second miracle was that they were able to re...

[00:17:46] Not all of them, they were able to rebuild their lives again,

[00:17:50] which is such a miracle.

[00:17:53] The third miracle, which I really didn't think too much about,

[00:17:56] but I knew that many of them gave up their religion and their faith and their faith in God,

[00:18:04] but there were many, many who even had services.

[00:18:09] They like pass-overs coming.

[00:18:12] They were able to somehow go do what they do before they got into camps.

[00:18:20] That's the third miracle.

[00:18:22] So that thread was, I think to me, not think I know, was what made me think.

[00:18:30] Oh, and then I need to go back again, why, how, what happened to me?

[00:18:34] But that stayed in my mind.

[00:18:36] Nobody was there to help them.

[00:18:38] Now the years that I was with Pat Schroeder...

[00:18:41] Pat was...

[00:18:42] I was her scheduler for almost eight years.

[00:18:45] She's asked by a group of Jewish women to speak

[00:18:51] and she, about her trip to Israel or Cambodia.

[00:18:57] Cambodia.

[00:18:59] And I was with her.

[00:19:00] I drove her that day and I'm listening to her talk about the genocide in Cambodia

[00:19:06] and I'm thinking, what is she talking about?

[00:19:09] The genocide in Cambodia.

[00:19:11] I mean, I thought because after the Holocaust, world leaders said never, never again.

[00:19:21] And all of a sudden, I'm hearing Cambodia, which opened me up.

[00:19:26] Basically she was asked to talk about Israeli doctors who left Israel to go to Cambodia

[00:19:33] to help all those people.

[00:19:36] And it wouldn't turn to me.

[00:19:38] What is she talking about?

[00:19:40] And so I started realizing that never again, it was happening.

[00:19:46] Of course, it happened even before the Holocaust with Armenia.

[00:19:53] And what I found out as I'm starting to learn more and more

[00:19:58] is that the Hitler really learned from the Armenian genocide

[00:20:05] that he had said nobody remembers the Armenians.

[00:20:11] Something like that, I don't have the exact quote.

[00:20:13] But it gave him the okay to move ahead and do what he did during World War II.

[00:20:18] So all of this is going in my head, you know?

[00:20:21] The thread, listening to all these people, the stories.

[00:20:25] And I'm realizing that if I, I mean, I didn't know.

[00:20:30] I bet there are a lot of people out there that don't know either.

[00:20:33] When you experience it yourself, you feel it.

[00:20:37] And so I felt very strongly that there are a lot of people out there

[00:20:40] that don't know what's going on.

[00:20:42] And so that was the, at that time I was with the mayor web.

[00:20:46] Mayor web's term was over.

[00:20:49] His appointees were done because we had to leave.

[00:20:53] We have to resign.

[00:20:55] And it gave me the opportunity to finally do something about all of this

[00:21:01] that was brewing for a long time.

[00:21:04] But it took a little while.

[00:21:06] So in 2005, a little bit before, I went to,

[00:21:11] I called Dr. Professor Van Nanda, who I knew very well,

[00:21:16] and said, told him my dream.

[00:21:18] My dream was to create a conference, put together a conference,

[00:21:24] to see if an organization making, that would help make people aware

[00:21:29] of what's happening in the world with genocide and crimes against humanity.

[00:21:33] And, and, and, and so, you know, and teach them what they could do.

[00:21:38] Tell them what they could do.

[00:21:39] Take actions to make a difference.

[00:21:41] Just stop it.

[00:21:43] And so we went back to the city, to the agency of,

[00:21:47] agency of Human Rights Community Relations,

[00:21:50] which is now community partnership.

[00:21:52] And we started talking about this dream.

[00:21:56] And as a result, in 2006, we worked all year.

[00:22:00] Had a conference and at one of the downtown hotels,

[00:22:04] 200 people walked into that conference.

[00:22:08] Unbelievable.

[00:22:09] In fact, when I got up to, and to welcome everybody,

[00:22:14] just look at all of you.

[00:22:16] How exciting to see all of you.

[00:22:19] And, and we had a day conference.

[00:22:22] VED was able to bring in people that he knew, amount of the state.

[00:22:27] And so we, we learned, I, to me, was really important to look back into your history,

[00:22:33] not just because many of the organizations that were already established,

[00:22:37] not many, there weren't that many, believe me.

[00:22:40] They're just talking about Darfur, because Darfur, Sudan was really very,

[00:22:45] very involved, a hot and heavy at that time.

[00:22:48] But I felt it was important to bring history present

[00:22:51] and what you can do to help prevent.

[00:22:53] The afternoon, we had sessions on what you could do.

[00:23:00] Meaning talking to people from the media.

[00:23:02] You didn't have social media at that time, but the print and television,

[00:23:07] how you were to work with your congressional delegation,

[00:23:10] different things that you could do.

[00:23:12] And afterwards, we wanted to show action.

[00:23:15] So everyone that was at that conference,

[00:23:18] we took, we walked out of the hotel, down the street to the Capitol

[00:23:24] and stood there.

[00:23:26] Very unfortunately nobody from the press came.

[00:23:29] That we were there, we were showing that action.

[00:23:32] Do they know you are there?

[00:23:34] Oh yeah, we said press releases, how do we call them.

[00:23:37] And they just weren't really interested.

[00:23:39] Not TV, not TV at all.

[00:23:42] Nobody, no.

[00:23:43] But at least we knew.

[00:23:45] So that's 2006.

[00:23:47] 2007, we took the steering committee and the host committee created a committee

[00:23:55] to create this organization.

[00:23:58] 2007, we had our first board meeting.

[00:24:03] 2008, we did receive our 501c3.

[00:24:07] And that's why you keep hearing 15 years.

[00:24:10] I kept saying we have three anniversaries.

[00:24:12] You can't do that.

[00:24:14] So we decided that when we were really official,

[00:24:16] we did become a 501c3.

[00:24:19] And we think we were probably the first organization like this in the country.

[00:24:25] Yeah.

[00:24:26] And so that we were working two tracks, creating a nonprofit and making sure,

[00:24:34] as are then one of my board members at that time,

[00:24:38] who then became our president, you've got to take action.

[00:24:42] You've got to keep going.

[00:24:43] You can't just keep creating the organization.

[00:24:47] And what more did you do after establishing the organization

[00:24:56] and after that first conference?

[00:25:00] Okay.

[00:25:01] So a new education was very important.

[00:25:04] I think the very first thing we did,

[00:25:07] oh yes, I remember the very first thing we did.

[00:25:10] Because there was a group of Armenians who were walking from California

[00:25:18] to Washington D.C.

[00:25:21] And someone put me in touch with them.

[00:25:25] Now while we were creating the conference,

[00:25:27] we did create coalition partners at that time.

[00:25:32] We ended up with many organizations,

[00:25:34] many diverse organizations that wanted to become our partners.

[00:25:39] And of course, one of them was the Armenians of Colorado.

[00:25:43] And from there, heard about this group that student young people were walking,

[00:25:49] you know, coming into Colorado.

[00:25:51] And so I called them and we ended up when they came here,

[00:25:57] we walked with them, well some of us walked with them,

[00:26:00] some of us did advanced work.

[00:26:02] And we hosted them, we walked with them,

[00:26:07] we went into the front range and then they went on to Washington D.C.

[00:26:12] That was the very first thing, our very first action.

[00:26:16] Since then we did so many things.

[00:26:21] We had press conferences, we had rallies,

[00:26:25] we worked with our partners, we had our youth conference,

[00:26:29] we had several years, we wanted youth to,

[00:26:33] it was youth creating this conference for youth.

[00:26:37] And when you believe the first, it was the year after that we started,

[00:26:42] we had another 200, I don't know where this number,

[00:26:45] 200 young people came to the University of Denver

[00:26:49] for this conference.

[00:26:51] And we did have young people doing it,

[00:26:54] helping us put it together.

[00:26:56] And this is something that we stopped doing for a while

[00:27:00] and we are going to absolutely do this again.

[00:27:04] So you mentioned Gilbert, Art Gilbert.

[00:27:08] And so we were working, you know, all of our programming,

[00:27:15] all the things we did during that period was for overseas,

[00:27:20] not here.

[00:27:22] And then we realized that there's a lot of crimes against humanity

[00:27:26] happening right here.

[00:27:28] In fact, I will go back because when we started this organization,

[00:27:32] I had someone from the African American community come to me

[00:27:36] and say, was slavery considered a genocide?

[00:27:41] And I had to say no because the intent was not to kill

[00:27:46] a group of people that did intent,

[00:27:50] but to bring them here for economic reasons to work.

[00:27:55] That bothered me.

[00:27:57] That bothered me that I had to say that.

[00:28:00] And so I said that someday we're going to do something about it

[00:28:05] to really look into this.

[00:28:07] And then someday came along when Professor Art Gilbert,

[00:28:14] may he rest in peace, came to me and said,

[00:28:17] would you be willing to do a conference?

[00:28:20] And I said, yes, before I went to the board.

[00:28:25] Then I went to the board.

[00:28:27] You don't do that.

[00:28:28] You have to get permission from your board.

[00:28:31] I went to the board after that and they, of course,

[00:28:35] they did agree.

[00:28:36] We worked three years on that to bring this conference to,

[00:28:42] I mean this group, it was a metro.

[00:28:45] We had a panel.

[00:28:46] We worked with many different people.

[00:28:49] It was a dynamite.

[00:28:51] It was really an art.

[00:28:55] The best part of this conference was the fact that art lived

[00:29:01] long enough to see it happen.

[00:29:04] And he gave, sorry, he gave closing remarks that were just

[00:29:11] amazing.

[00:29:13] And that made me feel so good that he saw his dream

[00:29:19] and realized.

[00:29:20] In fact, I think we'll be talking a little bit about

[00:29:26] slavery being genocide.

[00:29:29] We've had two podcasts already, our podcast,

[00:29:38] Coalition Against Genocide Podcast.

[00:29:41] And one was with a doctor.

[00:29:46] Greg Santor.

[00:29:47] Yeah, the genocide watch.

[00:29:50] Genocide watch.

[00:29:51] Sorry, he was a watch.

[00:29:53] Of course, thank you.

[00:29:54] And he was very clear.

[00:29:57] I mean to him, there's no question that genocide was

[00:30:01] committed in slavery, American slavery.

[00:30:05] In addition to that, genocide was committed with what was

[00:30:10] done to the Native Americans also.

[00:30:13] And then in addition to that, we had a very, very

[00:30:17] interesting discussion with Dr. Lee Butler, the new

[00:30:23] president of the Neuropathology School of Theology.

[00:30:27] We had really detailed and beautiful discussion about

[00:30:33] slavery being a genocide.

[00:30:36] So in other words, what I'm trying to say is that the

[00:30:41] legalistic definitions that maybe the UN may have,

[00:30:46] what are you, kind of humbless,

[00:30:49] so ties you down to a given formula.

[00:30:53] But these smart people who have dealt with this issue

[00:30:59] believe that those two issues were genocide.

[00:31:04] Well, we're not done with this.

[00:31:06] We're not finished.

[00:31:08] And to continue, we did, B. Harris was wonderful here,

[00:31:13] you know B as she did the podcast.

[00:31:16] Her brother actually produced several documentaries about

[00:31:21] slavery, the beginning of slavery.

[00:31:24] She said I'd like to get my brother out here dealing

[00:31:28] with, you know, concerning us, I mean, to talk about his film,

[00:31:31] at the Denver Film Festival.

[00:31:34] I think that's where we met actually.

[00:31:36] That was our first connection.

[00:31:38] And we were able to do it, show the film.

[00:31:43] We had a panel.

[00:31:45] And my other dear person who we've lost is Alfonso

[00:31:51] Porter, who was a real mover and shaker in this area.

[00:31:57] And he moderated that.

[00:32:00] And there was tremendous discussion as to,

[00:32:04] is there a possibility of redefining a word?

[00:32:10] Well, we were hoping that we're looking at Dr.

[00:32:15] Vern Howard, who's head of the Dr.

[00:32:18] Martin Luther King, Colorado Holiday Commission,

[00:32:22] to go on our board.

[00:32:24] And he and I have had a discussion.

[00:32:26] And he pointed out where some words can be changed or,

[00:32:29] you know, the definition can.

[00:32:31] Alfonso and I had these discussions about where we go

[00:32:35] from here.

[00:32:36] And we are.

[00:32:38] We are going to continue this conversation because we

[00:32:42] have, this is what happened.

[00:32:44] We diverted our, not totally, we're working for,

[00:32:48] you know, helping people back overseas.

[00:32:51] But we really made a big effort to bring out the

[00:32:55] issues of what happens to African-Americans living

[00:32:58] here and Native Americans, their crimes against

[00:33:02] humanity.

[00:33:03] In fact, that's what I did at one of our breakfasts.

[00:33:06] Every year we had a breakfast to bring our

[00:33:09] supporters and asked our supporters to bring in

[00:33:11] new people.

[00:33:12] And I got up and I said, you know, it's enough

[00:33:15] with the thoughts and prayers of what's happening,

[00:33:17] especially with what's happening with the police and

[00:33:20] citizens.

[00:33:21] And that was the turning point.

[00:33:23] Well, that and killing at one of the synagogues,

[00:33:27] we were all, we all have these horrible stories to

[00:33:32] tell.

[00:33:33] And I said, enough is enough with the thoughts

[00:33:35] and prayers.

[00:33:36] We've got to take action right here.

[00:33:38] And we have to start making sure that we are

[00:33:40] bringing up the issue of what's happening in the

[00:33:43] United States in our own backyard.

[00:33:45] And that's where, you know, that's why we had those

[00:33:48] conferences.

[00:33:49] That's why we're recognizing these months.

[00:33:51] You've already recognized on the, these podcasts,

[00:33:54] Native American and Black History Month.

[00:33:58] And this is really, really important.

[00:34:01] So really, this is an interesting, interesting

[00:34:04] point, which is that initially the concept of

[00:34:10] genocide prevention, you, at least you, having

[00:34:14] all these people who were, you know, when in the

[00:34:17] Holocaust, involved in the Holocaust, that really

[00:34:21] was the main point that informed your thinking,

[00:34:24] I would say.

[00:34:25] And I think also maybe when you began the

[00:34:31] organization, you're thinking of the Holocaust

[00:34:34] also, in addition, for example, to the Armenian

[00:34:38] genocide and the other sort of past

[00:34:42] genocides.

[00:34:43] And I think what I'm thinking in my mind as an

[00:34:49] interpretation of what you just said is that

[00:34:53] that information from the past has to be used or

[00:34:58] should be used so as we are dealing with the

[00:35:02] present and the future.

[00:35:04] So, you know, in other words, we have to try

[00:35:07] the best that we can so that we can diagnose a

[00:35:12] genocide that's about to occur or may occur so

[00:35:18] that maybe we can do something about it.

[00:35:20] Well, we had been working with the U.S.

[00:35:22] Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C.

[00:35:26] and they developed a subcommittee or I think

[00:35:30] I guess, and it's not called a subcommittee,

[00:35:33] I'm not sure what, but the prevention, they

[00:35:35] work directly with prevention.

[00:35:37] There are still organizations that are really

[00:35:39] dealing with this and we really need to get back

[00:35:43] in touch with them and see where they are

[00:35:46] and what we can do here.

[00:35:48] Well, prevention, you know, it's, it really,

[00:35:55] you're going to be talking or maybe you already

[00:35:58] did with Barbara Coleroso and you start with

[00:36:01] young kids, where does it start?

[00:36:03] Yes.

[00:36:04] The hate, you know, and the bullying and she's

[00:36:07] written books about bullying as a short road

[00:36:10] to genocide.

[00:36:12] You have all your characters there in both

[00:36:15] genocide and in bullying and it starts with

[00:36:18] teaching to not hate, to get rid of the hate

[00:36:22] language and that's important.

[00:36:26] So this is interesting.

[00:36:27] But there are other things too, obviously,

[00:36:29] which I'm not sure I could expand on but

[00:36:32] there are steps that have to be taken.

[00:36:34] I think the right kind of education is

[00:36:37] even, you know, is needed.

[00:36:41] An education that, I don't know, maybe defines

[00:36:46] humanity and the equality that we all should

[00:36:51] be equal, you know, and that we should be

[00:36:54] giving each other a chance and that

[00:36:58] there's much, much more in the world for all

[00:37:01] of us.

[00:37:02] You know, because in many ways I think we

[00:37:05] kill each other or we destroy each other

[00:37:07] because we wonder what the other has or

[00:37:10] we think that they're trying to get what I

[00:37:13] have or what do we have.

[00:37:15] Is that equality of position?

[00:37:18] Too much position is not such a great

[00:37:20] idea.

[00:37:21] Right.

[00:37:22] But that's one aspect of it.

[00:37:24] I think not knowing each other, that's our

[00:37:28] education.

[00:37:29] Knowing the other.

[00:37:30] Knowing the other.

[00:37:31] How many times I have her being Jewish,

[00:37:34] I never met a Jew before.

[00:37:37] It's like, okay, where are your horns?

[00:37:40] I mean, you know, it's, I've heard these

[00:37:43] comments and it directed to me, you know,

[00:37:46] I've never seen a Jew before.

[00:37:48] Well, you get to know each other and

[00:37:51] you realize that you're a human being.

[00:37:53] You're all both, you're all God's human

[00:37:55] beings, you know.

[00:37:56] Yes.

[00:37:59] Yeah.

[00:38:00] I do want to, you know, I do feel there's

[00:38:04] so much to say about this organization,

[00:38:06] but education is so very, very important.

[00:38:10] So if you don't mind, I just, we have

[00:38:15] worked with our congressional delegation.

[00:38:17] We can't, we've created an U.S.

[00:38:20] advisory committee with our staff,

[00:38:23] people from all of our delegation,

[00:38:25] congressional delegation.

[00:38:27] We cannot lobby because of our 501C3,

[00:38:30] but we can educate what's happening so

[00:38:33] that when they get calls, because we're

[00:38:35] going to create, make them tell them

[00:38:37] people call and let them know what's

[00:38:39] going on or write or whatever.

[00:38:41] So we've been meeting with our

[00:38:43] congressional, we have in the past,

[00:38:45] we'll continue to do that.

[00:38:47] Education is the key word.

[00:38:50] Key word for the entire organization,

[00:38:53] I think.

[00:38:54] We do have throat pillars.

[00:38:56] The legislature passed the first.

[00:38:59] And yes.

[00:39:00] And for many, many years we felt

[00:39:03] because of education being so important,

[00:39:06] we wanted to make sure that there would be

[00:39:09] education, Holocaust, genocide education

[00:39:12] in public schools.

[00:39:14] And I worked on this for even when I

[00:39:17] was with the DU,

[00:39:19] Holocaust Awareness Institute.

[00:39:21] And it was 1920, right before COVID.

[00:39:25] I testified with others

[00:39:27] before the education committee

[00:39:29] to pass this legislation.

[00:39:32] And it did.

[00:39:33] It went to the Senate.

[00:39:34] It passed.

[00:39:35] And on a very hot summer day

[00:39:39] outside, the governor signed the bill

[00:39:42] that became a law.

[00:39:45] Well, it's not there yet.

[00:39:47] A lot of there's been problems

[00:39:49] and the implementation of this has been difficult.

[00:39:52] Timing maybe was part of that.

[00:39:56] But education and educating our young

[00:39:59] is so important.

[00:40:01] And I want one thing to say.

[00:40:03] First of all, I have always felt guilty

[00:40:06] about not being able to see

[00:40:09] what we're trying to do happen.

[00:40:12] We've seen so much not stopping.

[00:40:17] There's a in our, there's a in one of our books

[00:40:19] called Pure K. Ovas,

[00:40:21] Ethics of Our Fathers.

[00:40:23] There's a saying and I'm not going to quote it right,

[00:40:26] but basically it says,

[00:40:28] you are responsible to start the job.

[00:40:33] But you're not responsible to end it.

[00:40:37] Now, what does that say to me?

[00:40:39] As I have been around here

[00:40:41] doing this for so long,

[00:40:43] what has to happen is that we have to,

[00:40:45] we who are working on this today,

[00:40:48] we have to pass this passion

[00:40:50] to our next generation

[00:40:52] so that they will continue this job

[00:40:55] of making sure,

[00:40:57] even though some days you don't feel that there's ever,

[00:41:00] and it'll never happen.

[00:41:02] But we pray that someday we will see

[00:41:06] that genocides, crimes against humanity

[00:41:11] will someday come to an end.

[00:41:13] You could never give up hope.

[00:41:15] Never.

[00:41:17] It's that influencing hope to keep going

[00:41:19] and then passing on to our next generation.

[00:41:22] Because someday, maybe it'll happen.

[00:41:25] Maybe someday we'll have a pill

[00:41:27] and we can give everybody a pill

[00:41:29] and just, and then take it.

[00:41:31] That's right, doctor.

[00:41:33] Right.

[00:41:35] I'm a cacai doctor, and I spent the South Pacific.

[00:41:39] Yeah, it looks like you know it's not good.

[00:41:41] Yeah, you just, you have to have hope.

[00:41:44] And my father, in fact when he died,

[00:41:49] there was a book put together,

[00:41:51] a pamphlet put together about his life

[00:41:54] and the cover,

[00:41:57] we have lost a dreamer.

[00:42:00] And you will find that in many things

[00:42:02] that we'll be doing as we move forward.

[00:42:05] The dream.

[00:42:07] Dreamers, heck, they're important to have.

[00:42:11] Well, I think we ought to congratulate you

[00:42:14] for your dream because it's a good dream,

[00:42:17] a wonderful dream, a bright dream.

[00:42:20] And I'm sure this organization

[00:42:24] will grow from strength to strength to strength.

[00:42:31] Well, thanks to people like you, Dr. Pius.

[00:42:34] We are here.

[00:42:36] Because you have, people like you have

[00:42:39] kept me going and we're a team

[00:42:43] and together.

[00:42:45] We will keep on.

[00:42:47] Thank you so very much, Ros.

[00:42:49] Thank you.

[00:42:55] The Never Again podcast is presented by

[00:42:58] The Coalition Against Global Genocide

[00:43:01] and its mission to educate, motivate and empower

[00:43:04] individuals and communities to oppose genocide

[00:43:07] and crimes against humanity.

[00:43:28] Thank you.