America the Beautiful: Ethnic Minorities Living in America

[00:00:00] Never Again, Never Again, Never Again Join Dr. Pius Kamal in the Coalition Against Global Genocide As we journey across the globe, taking a deep look at past, present and impending genocides and mass atrocities. Listen to experts who discuss not only the history, but also the resiliency

[00:00:24] and mental health of people who are recovering from these heinous acts. Learn how we can move from bystander to active involvement, calling out genocidal acts where you are. America The Beautiful Ethnic Minorities Living in America Good morning everybody! The Coalition against Global Genocide's podcast today has five guests

[00:00:54] and I would like to introduce them. First of all, we have Karen Wilde who is a retired government worker. She used to work in land management for the federal government. She is a board member of the Coalition against Global Genocide.

[00:01:12] Then we have Adrian Miller. Adrian is a whole emissive at Adrian, he is. Adrian is a soul-food scholar, dropping knowledge like heart biscuits. He is also a secretary of the Colorado Council of Churches.

[00:01:34] Then we have Philip Swain, a musician, plays a ukulele. He will tell us a bit more about what he does. He's from Hawaii. He's a native Hawaiian. The beautiful Allah-Halani Jones.

[00:01:54] She's a musician to dance. She is also a doctoral candidate and she is going to study and work on leadership educational equity. Karen, can you study and see something about yourself please?

[00:02:14] I am a Skogi Creek Nation citizen. I live here in also Oklahoma, which is in the boundaries of the Skogi Creek Nation. Which was reaffirmed in a year of Supreme Court decision that we kniped it,

[00:02:28] lose the boundaries of the reservation here. I'm also on a nation of Oklahoma descent. I worked for a U.S. Forest Service, U.S. Park Service and the Bureau of Indian Affairs a long time ago in that. I'm retired. I'm working on different objects.

[00:02:46] Mostly, this same type of job I used to do which was liaison between the requesting agency or organization and connect them with the appropriate individuals in the tribe. Whether it's the highly elected officials or if it's someone on the ground such as working in child welfare.

[00:03:04] So that's what I continue to do in my retirement years. I've only been back in Oklahoma about three years prior to that. I lived in Colorado for 35 years, not 25 years. So that's me. Very good. Very good. Adrian, see something about yourself? Yeah, good to be with you.

[00:03:22] I am a Denver Colorado native and grew up here. I am a recovering attorney. Correct. Oh, good. I practiced law for four years but it got to the point where I was singing spirituals in my office

[00:03:36] just to show you how rough law firm life is. Why people would join in? That's how I look at this. Then I was working the Clinton White House on something called the Initiative for Water America. It was a racial, ethnic and religious reconciliation.

[00:03:50] And the basic idea is that if we just talk to one another and listen, we might realize we have a lot more in common than let's supposedly defy. Then came back worked at the Bell Policy Center here for several years.

[00:04:03] Then I worked for Governor Bill Ritter Jr on several things. And then for the last 10 years, I've been the executive director of the Colorado Council of Churches, which is a coming together of 13 Christian denominations.

[00:04:16] In the ideas we get to know each other and then we build on those relationships to do social justice work. But for those who don't know us, we're the ones who host the annual Easter Sunrise Service at Red Rocks. So it goes to be doing that for 77 years.

[00:04:31] And then I have a side hustle where I write about African-American food traditions. So I've written a book on the history of soul food, black chefs in the White House, and also African-American barbecue.

[00:04:44] But on TV Netflix has a special called High On the Hog, I was in two episodes of that. And then another joy that I've had recently is I curated and exhibit for the museum of bolder call, claiming Colorado's black history. And that's one of few awards.

[00:05:01] So, you know, kind of be busy. Very good, very good. Allah al-Halani. Timor as so much yourself. And how do you say your whole name? How do you say it? Yeah, this is correct. Oh, the whole learning. Oh, okay.

[00:05:13] So I was born in Honolulu, Hawaii and we came to Denver when I was eight. It was in Second Grade. This is my dad. My dad. And I have worked in education for the past 15 years. So I was a high school teacher, English teacher, and ethnic studies teacher.

[00:05:34] And then now I'm an instructional coach and I work in Cherry Creek School districts. And I'm currently working on my doctorate in leadership for educational equity. You as a concentration in Justice Equity and diverse identities.

[00:05:46] And I'm particularly interested in the intersection between gender identity, disability, status, and race. When it comes to access to education. Feel it. Timor, how you say your whole name? Sure. My name is Philip Joseph Kahau Nailay Swain.

[00:06:05] So I'm the child of a US Coast Guardsman that came to Hawaii. Fell in love with a mostly Hawaiian woman decided he'd rather live in Hawaii than in New Jersey. So he was very smart.

[00:06:22] And so I grew up on the island of Kauai in what's called Hawaiian Homeland. And in Hawaii we say, I now hope Ula, which means the land of the Hawaiian people can grow. So I grew up amongst mostly native Hawaiian neighbors and so forth.

[00:06:40] And you play the ukulele? I play the ukulele, my mother played the ukulele, my grandfather played the guitar. So I come from a musician family. So to start with, let me ask your question, what is your America? Or somebody want to talk about that? Karen?

[00:07:04] You want to start with me? Yes, yes. What is my America being a native American coming from a whole history of ancestors that were here long before any of us. And we're here long before Columbus landed on these lands. My America is still pretty oppressive.

[00:07:30] I guess you have to live in the ethnicity to figure that out. And we're not really an ethnic group. We're a political status group because we do have treaties with the United States. And which are supposed to be the highest law of the land.

[00:07:46] And we're also mentioned in the Constitution. So that's my America as far as looking at my ancestors, looking at my immediate history.

[00:07:57] And then looking forward though because I don't want to leave it there is that we do have opportunities here as native people all along the way now that they've got these

[00:08:07] Pies selected officials that are beginning to recognize how devastating it was for American indians to be removed from their own homelands. This place to Oklahoma or any other state. So we do have opportunities in the new land that we now call home, which is Oklahoma for me.

[00:08:28] And also me spending a lot of time in Colorado 25 years. I've learned how many tribes were displaced. I shouldn't use that word. They were there traveling through Colorado. We've seen as a crossroads.

[00:08:42] It is now because it's kind of in the middle of the United States, but it was also a trade route between the north and the south. The United States and eastern west also. So Colorado has its own beauty for that kind of relationship.

[00:08:58] In addition to the beautiful land that we all get to enjoy here.

[00:09:04] It's unfortunate that it seems like our builders, our contractors are taking up every piece of open space and creating something supposedly livable for all of us when now at least affordable housing is almost out of reach in most states.

[00:09:22] So my America is very diverse, very challenging, can be oppressive, but you can also find opportunities if you look for them. Go out on the internet, which is our new and cyclopiedage search Google. You'll find it if you're really looking for it.

[00:09:40] So I'm hopeful and since I've lived this many decades, I see it changing all the time. And that's beautiful really. The fact that we are hopeful, the fact that there is a tomorrow that is more we hope is much better than our past that we are going through.

[00:10:01] Philip, you're not telling us about what you think about you in America? Sure. Yeah, I think and I'm guessing you chose to do this podcast near the Fourth of July for some reason. Exactly.

[00:10:16] So interestingly, the Fourth of July in Hawaii, it celebrated but it celebrated very differently than here. And so, you know what? New years is much more celebrated than the Fourth of July.

[00:10:32] It's just the Asian culture that entered Hawaii, so we blow up all kinds of firecrackers on New Year's Eve, but not so much on the Fourth of July.

[00:10:42] Just a different thing being the son of a Coast Guard's man and the son of a Hawaiian woman, it's just like I fight with myself sometimes. Can you say something about that fight that goes on inside you? Yeah, it's like I love America. I really do.

[00:11:04] And almost all of my uncles have served in the US military. Almost all of them, Coast Guard Air Force Army Marines, my brother. So there's this love for America but this love for OBE and actually they conflict because if you ask me,

[00:11:26] am I Hawaiian first American second or American first Hawaiian second? I would say that's a difficult question. I am Hawaiian but I love America. So that's my America. It's this kind of a conflict that's in the heart.

[00:11:46] So you're inside you of a melting pot, a melting pot of these two different entities that live in New Year. That's beautiful. Yeah, I mean it's beautiful and difficult at the same time which maybe gives you more wisdom than most of us have probably.

[00:12:05] Maybe so. Maybe more compassion. You're more compassionate and exactly mostly more tears. Yeah, that too. How about you, Allah al-Halani? So similarly, I identify as a bi-racial. So native Hawaiian and then my mom is white.

[00:12:24] So growing up it was a challenge for me to figure out what my identity was and how I wanted to identify and also feeling like other people were trying to categorize me because I'm racially ambiguous,

[00:12:43] you know, typically in my appearance I would get people coming up to me and asking me like well what are you? You don't really look white but you just look a little different or exotic and my English name is Amber.

[00:12:57] So I've only recently decided to start going by my Hawaiian name. So when I went by Amber when I was younger, I could very easily pass for white.

[00:13:08] And I've made a conscious choice to use my Hawaiian name because that is part of my identity and I want people to know that about me

[00:13:19] and I think previously I was more worried about assimilating and fitting in, especially when I was a kid, a teenager, you know, in college. You just want to fit in.

[00:13:31] I mean, I'm 41 and I think I'm still figuring out what that looks like for me to claim my identity, my byracial identity, also as a woman, which I think is why I'm so interested in studying intersectionality and access and education because I think that society has

[00:13:50] a tendency to want to categorize us so that we fit nicely into boxes. And I don't fit into boxes, my children don't fit into boxes, my dad doesn't fit into a box. Yet white supremacy culture wants to put me in a box.

[00:14:06] I think I'm still grappling with that and then kind of adding on to what my dad was talking about in terms of the options that we have in this country.

[00:14:15] As people of color, especially people of color that are living in poverty, some of the only options that we have to get out of that poverty are to join the military.

[00:14:25] And also, in joining the military, that just is continuing to colonize other nations and so it's perpetuating the cycle of white supremacy. To me, my America is full of conflict.

[00:14:41] It's not cohesive and it's challenging, I think for so many of us, unless we fit into little boxes to figure out where we belong here. That's hard to find out what Karen said. I'm going to go and she went first because she said it's so beautifully.

[00:15:02] So I'll add that my America is my hope. I've been blessed to travel in other parts of the world, there's no other place that I would want to live. But it's a place of contradiction and unfilfilled potential for much of what we've learned.

[00:15:18] This is just a problematic and tragic past that we have. So I constantly think, what can we do given that past to redeem it and build a shared future? That's more inclusive, more just and more loving. So those are the things that I think about.

[00:15:36] And then I love the food here too because we have so much for different parts of the world and our Indigenous traditions. Okay, that's wonderful. So the next question I would like to do consider if I asked you, are you happy?

[00:15:54] If you're happy, I want you to tell me why. If you're not happy, can you tell me why? You're not happy. Karen. I am happy being able to live in the United States.

[00:16:09] I think we have more freedom here than we have with in other nations, but I have not been anywhere outside of the United States. Except 90 tier one Mexican that's just across the border.

[00:16:21] So that doesn't really count as far as in golfing myself into anybody else's culture across the seas across the ocean. So, but my only dream is to visit all reservations within the United States, including Alaska and Hawaii, which I have been to both places.

[00:16:42] Yeah, so my happiness would be if I could go to every place and check it off my bucket list that has an American Indian reservation, an urban community or a rural community.

[00:16:56] And I've had opportunities to do that. One of these days, I've got to write it all down and see how many of the 754 federal-rerecognized tribes that I have been able to either work with or visit. Yeah. That's my goal in life.

[00:17:11] I would also have to parallel that with not being happy because our people, the federal-rerecognized tribes of the United States were forced most of them were forced into where they live now. And to make a living where they're at, be it successful or not.

[00:17:28] I believe my tribe has been pretty successful. But we all started out with looking at, first of all, do we understand the white man's law? Do we understand the United States law, state law, county, roads, local? I mean, it's all about law and my opinion.

[00:17:46] I'm not a lawyer, but I do have my masters of jurisprudence and Indian law. And there was a purpose for that. I tried law school. It didn't work for me. So I really, that I just wanted more information.

[00:17:58] So the University of Falson offered this jurisprudence and Indian law, and I went through that. So when I think about how the law has been used against us as American Indian nations, it's extremely sad.

[00:18:13] But we had our first graduate who was American Indian for the University of New Mexico in 1971. 1971, that was not very long ago. Today we have a lot of native students that are picking up the law degree because they realize that's what our people need.

[00:18:31] And we can go back and write for our people on a local ground. So we, that's kind of what's unhappy about this is we were obviously in history. I don't have to repeat it, but I'm going to say it. We were oppressed.

[00:18:44] We were taken advantage of because of the way they viewed us as uneducated in comparison to their education that they had when they came over, whether it's just property ownership, land ownership, or who knows agriculture, agriculture, agribusiness, you know, killing the land.

[00:19:02] We were taken advantage of and now we're at the point where we don't want her will be taken advantage of. That's my happy and unhappy point of view. Well, maybe instead of using the word happy, which is a very weighted word, you can be all over their place.

[00:19:21] I should have said content. So I'm going to ask you, Adrian. Are you content to be an American? If yes, why? If not, why not? I'm definitely content to be an American because of just the opportunity these that are available.

[00:19:40] And in my own life, I've had several pivots to find my bliss to find something I love doing. And I found that writing about African-American food traditions and I've been able to write three books.

[00:19:54] I've been able to start speaking around the world about black food traditions from the United States, which just gives me a lot of joy. And I'm starting to make money doing it too. But I need to make a living doing it. Yeah, no figure.

[00:20:10] So yeah, I mostly content. The only qualification I put on it is just looking around. There just seems to be so many things wrong in America right now that that keeps me from fully being content. And just reminds me this always work to do. Yeah, yeah. Are you?

[00:20:30] Yes. I wouldn't say we're the most part, yes. I'm content being an American and also just to add onto a Adrian said I do think that there are a lot of things that need to be changed.

[00:20:47] There is a lot of inequities in our systems and structures that have been intentionally unequal from the very beginning of this nation starting with slavery. And all of our institutions were built upon that about capitalism and upon slavery.

[00:21:06] So I don't know any other, you know, I've never been the citizen of a different nation. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's the reason you're happy. Yeah. Are you content rather than that? Yeah. Yes.

[00:21:20] When you see the millions trying to come to this country, it's that that says something doesn't it about about this nation. The point I'm trying to make is I think we should always be cognizant of that, you know, look back and see why do they all want to,

[00:21:40] well, many of they want to come to the United States. Yeah. Okay. Seal it. What is your take? Awesome. I've got a question that is. And I'm so old. I've met so many people from so many different cultures and lived in Japan for two years.

[00:22:00] My business, I meet East Indian people and black people and white people and brown people. I once met someone from Pakistan and I said, what do you like about America? You know, he said the amazing thing about America is you guys have an election.

[00:22:18] Someone is elected and there's no blood shit. And I never thought of that. Now last year was pretty close to, I mean, the last year was pretty close to budget. So when that happened, I thought, the guy from Pakistan at a point.

[00:22:33] But I am actually proud to be American. I like the concept of the American dream. I am a, I grew up really poor in a really small place and have done pretty well. I have one kid getting a doctoral in a doctoral program.

[00:22:51] I have another one in law school at the University of Hawaii. So those opportunities for some countries, those opportunities don't exist for people without status. At birth and so America is great in that fashion. I'm also descendant of John Adams, the second president. Not bad. Not bad.

[00:23:14] So I have this lineage from both sides of my blood or myself that I'm proud of the American side and of the Hawaiian side. So I'm happy in America.

[00:23:28] But if you ask me, what needs to happen before you die for you to be like quote unquote really happy? It would be that the Hawaiian people would have control of their own lands. We do not have control of our own lands.

[00:23:45] Would be to be able to say to a lojavelli or a lojavelli or a lojavelli, my other daughter who lives in Hawaii who cannot afford to live in Hawaii.

[00:23:55] I still live in Hawaii to have a house to live in that she can pass on to her children or grandchildren. If that could happen, I would be so happy. So from my point I am of foreign here or immigrant here.

[00:24:12] Either I chose to be here or succumb to the chose me to be here. But what has happened, I've had a pretty good life as a physician as a surgeon. I have encountered a lot of prejudice, a lot of racism. But I've also encountered a tremendous possibilities.

[00:24:33] A lot of very, very good people that I have encountered along the way. In balance therefore, I would say that I'm contented to be here and to have taken an American citizenship. So happiness is a very heavy word which I think gets thrown around.

[00:24:58] And people don't really quite know what happiness really is. Many things to many, many people. But for most people I don't think it's happiness. They simply are related from a moment because they have a single other thing or whatever. But true happiness is something much deeper I believe.

[00:25:19] Which takes a lot to really come to. And it's not what Americans call happiness. So after we have said the things that we have said, for example, there was slavery, the taking away of land, and being mistreated by the white government, the white authorities.

[00:25:48] The question that I have that is, despite all that as a consequence of what we are in America, Can we still love America? Can we still love this place where there's so much that we are not happy about. What do you think?

[00:26:08] Maybe I should define a little bit about loving America. America is not one thing that you look at and also say, that is America. I think America is all of us here, you know, the six of us who are talking to each other.

[00:26:26] We are on America this moment. This is our America here. America is when you meet your friends and you meet your family. Thus, an America that particular. So there are very, very many Americas at the same time. All of us are one big America.

[00:26:48] Am I making sense or am I full of it? I think it's mostly the latter, but I think it's the same. I stand corrected. I think I know what you're getting at, but I will say this because part of my life I worked for,

[00:27:12] or age after my life, I work for the State of Colorado, the governor's office. So I had that experience of politics and working on the half of Native people in the State of Colorado. I've also, as I said, I'm a US government retiree, which is a whole

[00:27:29] another level of relationships between tribal nations and the federal government. I also have my family here. That's the reason I moved back. Oklahoma was to re-acquaint myself with my family. I love it. It's just wonderful to be back here and do all that.

[00:27:46] But I still have a restless spirit that I want to go somewhere else, and that's what took me away for 35 years. So I love what I can do in America. I do think that the premise of democracy is not, for once was.

[00:28:02] Obviously we had the January 6th thing. I think that we can, I think that's another good part of loving America as we can do that, but we also have a judicial system that well.

[00:28:15] We've just been in what happened there as a native living on my own reservation now. It's quite different than when I moved away 30 years ago. We have our own law enforcement that deals with natives within the state of Oklahoma,

[00:28:29] where as went before I left it was just the local municipal, local, county state law enforcement. So I see that kind of change coming down and I feel like it re-were somewhere else.

[00:28:44] In maybe another country that I've never visited that it could match much different as you were explaining on your, in the immigrant status here being American. You know, I really can't address it as far as being another country, as I said before,

[00:29:01] my goal is to try to be on the soil of all 574 federal recognized tribes. So I have a whole different version of America, but yes, I think everything I've accomplished. And probably some of the other tribes in tribal members that might not be possible in another country.

[00:29:20] So, I mean it is, yeah, like you said, it's kind of like where you're at. Yeah, and thus the other thing too, which is I think, in the end you say it, for opportunities. I think you get many, many more opportunities than in America.

[00:29:38] Well, it's you're lucky, okay? I mean, because you have to have the right kind of connections. You have to have the right kind of drive maybe also. I mean, being directed and having mentors and having the kind of friends that you may encounter along the way.

[00:29:57] Thus, what makes America that their opportunities or opportunities are what you feel about what you think. You know, I was thinking, one day I was having dinner with two of my sisters and my daughter that lives in Hawaii.

[00:30:13] And one of my sisters said to me, Phil, how did you get into the University of Southern California? And I said, I just applied. And I had no clue how I really did it.

[00:30:28] Because again, I just come from a very poor family and I went to a good private school in Hawaii. And that helped, of course, for part how I and kids so, you know, you're right. But I was lucky to get into that school.

[00:30:43] And most of my siblings were. And by going to that school, I became a gymnast, which I would have never done in any other school. And I wanted to continue in gymnastics. And I simply applied. My counselor said, don't apply to that school, but I did anyway.

[00:30:58] They had a committee of all white people who interviewed me at USC. You used to have to be interviewed to get in by graduates. Alumni. And I got in and I went to school. And in my English class, after I turned in my first paper, the professor says,

[00:31:18] we need to talk after class. So I thought, oh, I know I screwed that paper up pretty bad. She said so, so I don't think you have any understanding of grammar and all of that,

[00:31:31] and I'm going, oh, I just said, but I love Hawaii, so I'm going to help you through this class. Wow. And some of the smart Japanese kids from Hawaii were there class two. And they helped me.

[00:31:45] And I still don't understand grammar as much as I did to my daughter study English in literature, and my wife has an MAD in the teaching of reading. But that's an example. In America, you can fight people who lend you a hand and lift you up.

[00:32:04] I was able to graduate. And that's the thing that's sort of typical America I think. I went on to graduate, get a business degree. I was the captain of the gymnastics team. I mean none of that would have happened. It's not for the opportunities. So I love America.

[00:32:24] But there's things that I would love to see change to. Of course, of course. Allah Allah. Really? Um. I love America. I think there are parts about it, yes, that I can love. Do you love the people here?

[00:32:41] I mean, like you were talking about when you look around this table. Like we are all here. We are all American. At this moment, this is our America. This is our America right now. We're currently in the U.S. over there in the fall of us.

[00:32:56] We are our American in this room. Of course, when you go outside, our American changes. And that's the changing state of being. Yeah? Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, yes, I do like this America here in this room. And also sometimes when we go outside,

[00:33:19] I don't necessarily like that one all the time. Um, so I think it goes back to that kind of conflict. Um, just so there's so many different facets to America. Factions even um now that I feel like we're divided. A lot more so than we have been previously.

[00:33:44] Um, so I love this America in here. And I love the America in my whole neighborhood and with my own family. And even in I live in Aurora and Aurora's very diverse and very kind people. Um, I love my neighborhood. I love my kid's school.

[00:34:03] So yeah, this America right around me. I do love which actually makes me think of an interesting point is that sometimes I think things that we may be seeing on TV or in the media or the stories that are heightened aren't necessarily. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:34:25] Because those are the things that make you feel scared and like this isn't my America. But then when we meet people in real life and we connect with each other, we all have just so much in common. I think it's just so sunny, very, very important.

[00:34:44] A lot of people are out there to make you afraid. There's a lot of people who are making, they want to frighten us. And I think we have to be careful not to be frightened.

[00:34:57] I think we have to kind of think of what is essential and what is good. You know, they're not to be frightened. Yeah. Agent there, just some incident. Yeah, so I truly believe I can love America and I do.

[00:35:15] And one of the reasons is because of the possibility of change. Yes. And one is just what's happening in this room. We're being heard, right? We are the opportunity to voice how we feel.

[00:35:27] What are the things that's just such a head scratcher is as flak as our system is and I'm using whack as a turny bark. It is responsive to the people. I'll just take the marketplace for change. If people decide they don't want to buy plastic, guess what?

[00:35:43] It's going to be gone. And we're already seeing that change in the marketplace. And that's just one example. But also elections. People don't know how much power they have. But for fear, mongers and others, people feel like they don't have that power.

[00:35:59] So now we get these messed up results. Election wise because so many people just don't even vote. We just had a primary election in Colorado. And I think what quarter of the voters turned out for it in some places.

[00:36:13] And so, and I told you I was in the White House and I worked for a Colorado governor. I was on the gas side and I'm telling you, we're responsive if people make their voices heard.

[00:36:25] So it's just because of that potential for change built into our systems in our response of the art. That's why I love this country because I know that what we're experiencing right now is not a given. It can be changed and that's not the case everywhere. Yeah.

[00:36:44] And essentially what you're saying, what I'm hearing, I say is that we love this country. You know, it's not without, it's not blemishless, so to speak. It has a lot of blemishes.

[00:37:02] But then something can have blemishes and yet be lovely or some parts of it can be lovely. You know, it can be loved. In fact I had another question which I was going to ask. And maybe it's not so important.

[00:37:17] But I'll also read less than my info moment that those people who have done us wrong. The people who came to Hawaii and took our lands, which which belonged to the tribes, belonged to the original people.

[00:37:35] Are the people who went to Oklahoma and these are the places and took the indigenous peoples lands. You have to model this stage, we are sorry. If to model their apologised and you thought they were authentic. You sit down and break bread with them.

[00:37:55] I think the Hawaiians are always, always ready to eat. So yes. We would break bread with them. But I was still what the lands. The apologies are okay. But there are maybe 500,000 people of Hawaii and descent now.

[00:38:14] Most of them don't live in Hawaii like Amber and like a millennium because it's so difficult and expensive. So I appreciate the apology but we need a place to go home to if we can.

[00:38:29] That would be the best gift in the world. If we can go to a place where we can call this is our Hawaiian life. So you feel that the original people, they are descendants and the people who occupy the land.

[00:38:48] Because this is a down and decided we are going to give maybe a portion of what we took away from you. That's what you would make you happy.

[00:39:01] The Hawaiian people are looking for self-determination and the ability to get back all or most of our land back to be compensated for it and to be able to raise our children on it.

[00:39:15] If we can do that, if you can make that happen before I die, I'll go to heaven and come back and kiss you. Karen, what do you think? They could apologize. Well, you'll there are apologies and there are apologies. It depends on what's the intent of the apology.

[00:39:40] I say that because in the state of Colorado, it was during the time of Governor Hickman Rapeer which is really fairly recent.

[00:39:49] I'm thinking it's like 2015 that he apologized to the Cheyenne and a rapper hope people who were massacred at San Creek Massacre and selfies call out to you. I've never seen him say that he was a part of the park I worked for.

[00:40:04] But another reason he apologized because there was an executive order back in the day that the original Territory of Governor John Evans issued that said, you know, you could kill Indians and take everything they own, gather the plunder it as yours.

[00:40:20] And that was still on the books until 2015 when Governor Hickman Rapeer found out about it through the Colorado Commission of any of the fact that there's another tribal nation that do not exist in Colorado anymore.

[00:40:34] They've been removed to other states that he apologized and it meant a great deal to the shot man and a rapaho in Montana, Wyoming and in Oklahoma. That's where they're now living. So it made a great deal to them.

[00:40:48] But I along that line, there is a movement within Indian country.

[00:40:54] And I use Indian countries defining not only the tribes, but the Indian individuals who no longer live in their reservation area probably have either chosen on their own or been forced to live in urban or rural areas.

[00:41:11] I grew up in urban Indian, but I know my tradition here in Oklahoma. The point is there's a movement within Indian country, which they call landback.

[00:41:22] And what they're looking for is not only apologies, but they want landback even if it's being used, even if it's, and especially if it's guided and treaty or other kinds of agreements that it should be given back.

[00:41:37] I think Alcatraz isn't a perfect example of that because it's ever landing and was supposed to go back to the Indians once it was a new city more by the federal government.

[00:41:45] Now it's the National Park site. So yeah, so the point of that explanation about St. Creek massacre is Colonel John Shivington who led the massacre back in that time 1864.

[00:42:01] If you wanted to be an elected official, you had to have status of course in the community you wanted to live. And one of those status measures was be belonging to a church or becoming a pastor or preacher.

[00:42:16] What's some of the other's bishop, you know, just being high up there in the religious order that you chose. He was a Methodist preacher and so with St. Creek Nasseter, the Methodist have come and asked for forgiveness to the child or I put on people.

[00:42:32] They have broken bread together several times. It's just a way of healing. What happened in the past, even though it wasn't those particular individuals that did that families.

[00:42:44] They were willing to come forward and say, we're sorry about what our ancestors did. And we want to know you now as people. Yes. That was my long story to get to that point.

[00:42:56] Yes. I think breaking bread, I think accepting that apology and moving from that point forward. I think you just said something very important. They wanting to know you, you know, you're an Indian out there or you're Hawaii and out there.

[00:43:13] But who are you? What exactly are you? One of the things that I have discovered in America, a lot of my white friends have never ever. So, it's not down and talked to a black person. They have never had no idea who black people are.

[00:43:33] They're like people out there and they feel bad about them, they hate them. But they have no reason to hate them, and they don't know why they hate them. So really talking to each other is where we have to begin, I believe.

[00:43:47] Aloha Lani, did you have something to say to this subject? Yes. So I think it was either President Clinton or President Obama that specifically apologised for the annexation of Hawaii. So yes, I would definitely sit down and break bread with President Clinton or President Obama.

[00:44:04] Oh, I hope it was above because he was like, favorite. Yeah, I would. And I do think that that apology matters. Like Karen was saying, like even though that person isn't necessarily responsible for what happened,

[00:44:18] I think the acknowledgement of the mistakes that we've made in our past history is important. And it sets a precedent, hopefully moving forward that we don't want to behave that way again.

[00:44:30] So yeah, and I do agree, I think, you know, of course if we could get more of the land back, that would be ideal. But also I just don't know if that's going to happen. Oh, yeah. I don't think so. Yeah. What do you think?

[00:44:46] Yeah. If somebody wanted to apologize for slavery, they're all like somebody was the descendant of a of a slabber or a slave owner. I would definitely break bread with some.

[00:44:57] I feel that we're not going to make progress until we create safe spaces to sit down and have honest conversation about what's happened, what's happening now and what our future but look like. I like these food metaphors breaking bread.

[00:45:14] I when I sometimes I'm asked to preach at churches and one of the sermons I have is setting a welcome table.

[00:45:21] So I use the example from the Bible, Jesus gives a parable where he has a great dinner and he instructs his servants to invite people and people make excuses. There are other people that are vying for their place of honor at the table.

[00:45:37] But that he keeps extending the invitation. So I think it's for us of people of goodwill who want to have these conversations in mind you. I know a lot of the black people that are just tired of the talking and really don't want to go into those spaces.

[00:45:51] It's unfortunate because I think at this moment because of things, George Floyd being murdered other people being murdered, other things as happened to our society that more white people are actually willing to start talking.

[00:46:06] So I have energy for that and I have energy to hear wax stuff from white people and still stay in that space that Jesus explored. You know what yeah, I don't know wax stuff. It's seeing how long that lasts. It's a good word. Yeah.

[00:46:20] So yeah, I think that's critical because I think if we could stop other wring people and just sit down and start to get to know each other and it shouldn't be one way.

[00:46:30] I think we need to hear both people in that space need to talk and listen and then reflect on it and then say how can I support you in this moment? What would justice or love of whatever look like for you?

[00:46:46] And then talk about what we can work towards that. And maybe justice is more than the law, maybe justice is also friendship. And I think justice is being able to have a conversation and feel that you're respected by the person you're talking to. Right.

[00:47:06] Because often sometimes we would talk down on you. And that is wrong. But in those moments where you feel like you're being disrespected in that conversation, instead of just getting up and just saying okay on out of here.

[00:47:21] Can you stay in that conversation and just feel the tension. But then recognize that you're both trying to do some work here. I agree. I agree. So I think we've pretty much have covered everything. It seems to me that as the fourth of July comes around.

[00:47:41] We will celebrate America that we are living in. The America that we believe America is, I think. Do you want to send anything at all? Anybody want to see something more?

[00:47:53] Well, I just think about Frederick Douglass, you know, his speech more than a century ago about why black people connected for the July very differently that others. You know, it's still, we still need to perfect our union right?

[00:48:07] And create a society where we feel like we'll full participants. So yeah, you know, I'm going to celebrate the Flith of July. Not with firecrackers, but you know, making barbecue and being with family. And the invite us. Okay. Yeah. But there is still this emptiness right?

[00:48:23] Because I don't feel like myself or my people are full participants in this society. And then when that is felt it would really in others, right? Not just black people, it's got to be an inclusive society for all. And that will be the best fourth of July ever.

[00:48:39] Oh, are you two anything else you want to say? I think I would say the same concept that you used. I don't know who was that said it, but if you don't have a seat at the table, you get eaten for lunch.

[00:48:52] And yeah, if you, yeah, if you know the table, you're the dinner and so, you know, by the, the main reason that so much lands this opportunity, we had no seat at the table.

[00:49:06] And now the young Hawaiians her age, the learned ones, the educated ones are demanding that we have a seat at the table. And so, whether it's like people, Hawaiian people, native people, who have to have a seat at the table. Yeah.

[00:49:22] Or else the same things will continue to happen. You know, independence of America from England was a huge thing. But to be able to be independent within America and be sovereign and choose what we think is right for ourselves is also a huge thing.

[00:49:42] So we all have that right to be independent in sovereign with our lives and with our people. Yes. Well, I wanted to pick up on a couple of things. So one is with the lawyer was saying before about having a seat at the table.

[00:50:00] I think that is extremely important, but one thing I've always encouraged non natives to do when I'm working on behalf of the natives and or the federal government is go to those public events that you can. Yes.

[00:50:14] So you were it's like for them, they might be just doing the celebratory part of their culture. But it gives you a feel for who the other people are that are within your America.

[00:50:25] I mean, if you can go to a public event last year was the first year I went to Tulsa's do routine. I was so impressed.

[00:50:33] I was there by myself too and I kind of got lost in the crowd, you know how you can do that you're within a crowd but you're by yourself and are like,

[00:50:41] that was so fabulous they had the bands, they had the song music, they had the preaching, then he had.

[00:50:48] Floats, oh it was just like, well I've never seen if you haven't been to a Juneteenth and Tulsa at the home and you really need to come down here because it was nothing like the Jim Denver Juneteenth. That was wonderful. Yeah, so. I don't think anybody noticed me.

[00:51:04] I don't think they cared if I was there but I put you experience it in subtle I went and it was right on the floor. And it was right along Black Wall Street so no matter.

[00:51:12] Very Institute that you know I grew up in Tulsa but I never knew about Black Wall Street and the riot that went on there until you know recent times. Black I want to mention is that in 2026 is the 250th anniversary of independent steady 1776.

[00:51:31] And America at least at the federal level where I'll get ready for that to happen and they were bringing in all kinds of all of the different people that make up America within their agency.

[00:51:44] To what do we want to do at this time to recognize the 250th of 17th signing of the 1776 Declaration of Independence so I just wanted to bring that out to not only my America friends that are here on this podcast but whoever he is.

[00:52:00] This podcast that this is what America's getting ready for and be a part of it. We're here. Remodist will join in. The generous. Yeah, if I made up to him that so Colorado is the Centennial State of the state in 1876.

[00:52:15] So we are gearing up for our 150th birthday. So there's a year celebration. So we're calling it 250 150 in Colorado's opportunities to celebrate there. So maybe what I'll say is a long leave our America and the safety very much everybody. This was very good. Thank you. Wonderful.