Phoebe - Aspiring Mama + Planning for Parenthood

[00:00:01] Welcome to Season 2 of You and Me, Kid, a podcast about starting and raising a family

[00:00:07] on your own. Where I speak with other single moms, those still considering, and experts

[00:00:13] in relevant fields to give you a real sense of what the day-to-day experience of solo

[00:00:17] parenting looks and feels like. So wherever you are in the process, I hope this podcast

[00:00:23] provides some support, helpful info, and most importantly, humor. Thanks so much for

[00:00:28] listening. Now let's get to it. On today's episode, I talk to my friend Phoebe, who is

[00:00:35] an aspiring single parent in the Pacific Northwest. Phoebe is just at the beginning

[00:00:39] of her process and we really dig into the financial decisions that she's trying to

[00:00:45] make around whether or not this is something that she can afford and if there are some

[00:00:50] shifts she can make to her career to set herself up more for success as she begins

[00:00:54] this journey. Phoebe and I also talk about the emotional components associated with this

[00:01:00] decision and also the grief that sometimes comes along with pursuing single parenthood.

[00:01:06] I had such a blast talking to Phoebe. She's an incredibly honest and thoughtful

[00:01:10] human and I really hope you enjoy our chat. Okay, so just give me your background.

[00:01:16] I'm like how we even got to talking? How did this start? Like thinking that this

[00:01:20] was a path you wanted to go down. I'm so curious. Yeah, so I guess having kids is one of the only

[00:01:28] things I've been clear on since I was like eight years old. I remember having this thought,

[00:01:33] I don't know what it was. There's something about like wanting to celebrate like all the

[00:01:37] holidays. I wanted to celebrate like Hanukkah and Christmas and everything in December and

[00:01:43] I remember being really young and being like I just can't wait till I have my own family so

[00:01:48] I can make those decisions and I was like nine years old. It's like the only thing I've ever

[00:01:53] been really clear on and yeah, I think in my dream world I would have started even younger than

[00:01:59] now if I'd found the right person. Well, my mom had me when she was 40 and so I like,

[00:02:06] I wanted my parents to get to be grandparents. I wanted that earlier in life and I like the

[00:02:14] idea of bigger families. I would love to have the opportunity for my niece and nephew to have

[00:02:20] cousins. Apparently, my niece has been telling my sister-in-law now like I'm getting cousins

[00:02:26] this year and she's like oh really? Where are those coming from? I love that. She's been asking

[00:02:34] about that. It's funny that it starts that young isn't it? I mean I kind of was the same way and I

[00:02:38] I also kind of felt a similar way when my parents had me when they were older as well

[00:02:42] and it's like you start to kind of add up that math right? Of kind of how much time they'll have

[00:02:47] with your kids and that of course paired with the really fun just realities of being a woman

[00:02:54] in her 30s or 40s and what that all means and it becomes really real really fast.

[00:02:59] Yeah, yeah I didn't grow up with grandparents really. Like all my grandparents died by the

[00:03:04] time I was 10 or 11 so I think yeah so that's a part of it. Oh and I remember like

[00:03:10] dating in my 20s and being like I remember like my benchmark was like is this person going to be

[00:03:15] a good co-parent to my child? And I'd be like nope we're done. You know like that's the

[00:03:19] benchmark starting really young so yeah now I'm about to turn 33 in like a week and within

[00:03:29] the last couple of years I started thinking about the like well maybe by the time I'm

[00:03:34] 36 I'll think about freezing my eggs or I'll you know I'll think about these things just in case

[00:03:40] and I talked to a friend who was like why don't you just like concurrently plan of like yeah

[00:03:47] it'd be awesome I'll keep dating but like what if you also just started exploring the path of

[00:03:54] doing it on your own not just the egg freezing but the whole thing because that's more reliable

[00:03:59] successful and like why wait you know especially if you have you thought about that before like had

[00:04:05] the idea of being a single parent even crossed your mind? I mean like I was I think it was

[00:04:10] like yeah maybe when I'm 38 I'll think about it you know and so that was like oh it's forever

[00:04:15] away and then this was like within the shoot my friend was like what if in the next two

[00:04:19] years you're like I'm gonna have a child in the next two or three years and I was like

[00:04:24] holy shit like it's a whole different way to think about this. Yeah. She had not done the

[00:04:30] whole thing by herself but she had adopted a child and so she knew a lot about like

[00:04:35] she's like in the foster system they're always concurrently planning for the possible realities

[00:04:39] and so it was like just a new way of thinking about it where it wasn't putting all my chips

[00:04:43] in one basket or a different one or just like no I'm gonna hold out and find the person.

[00:04:51] And it's I mean as you know now right it's if IVF ends up being a way that you go it's a two-step

[00:04:57] process so you can go through the egg freezing and stop or if you're in it and like in the

[00:05:03] year it takes six months it takes right like your feelings about it change you could just

[00:05:08] go into stage two but I think there's a lot of benefit to thinking about it as early as you

[00:05:13] are and I one of the best soapbox things I say a lot on the podcast is like I wish

[00:05:20] a doctor had asked me about it earlier. Like I wish somebody had kind of just brought it up to

[00:05:28] me a little bit earlier instead of me kind of having to dive into it on my own and like a

[00:05:33] little quote-unquote late you know. Yeah it feels like very much in the age I am like in

[00:05:39] the early 30s there's still so much pressure and rhetoric around just like well oh you're so young

[00:05:45] still you'll find somebody like that's all I get told is like oh you're gonna find somebody

[00:05:50] you're like you're so young you don't need to worry about all that and then I'm like

[00:05:54] yeah but then I think about the like logistics of uh okay great so say I meet somebody and

[00:06:00] then I'm like it'd be nice to set a foundation before we scramble our DNA and you know like

[00:06:06] that's a couple years and then I want more than one kid that's a couple years you know I'm like

[00:06:10] the logistics of it all it's like I want to start thinking about it now I don't want the

[00:06:14] opportunity to pass me by. Yep. Not that it's gonna let- And it sucks that society kind of

[00:06:20] makes you feel like it's not the right time to be thinking about it when I could not agree

[00:06:24] more that it is the right time to be thinking about it so good for you. Yeah and it feels

[00:06:30] like it's like thinking about it and starting to learn more and and concurrently plan is like

[00:06:37] there's no yeah no risk. There's no downside nope no downside. So where are you in the process

[00:06:45] are you just in the like informative get all the info stage or have you started any like

[00:06:51] testing or anything? I'm like I've gone like a little beyond the info gathering so

[00:06:58] I for the last probably I think it was probably around February or March of last year I started

[00:07:03] thinking and then I started listening to your podcast and then I started reading more and

[00:07:10] listening to other podcasts. I got on a bunch of Facebook groups and then I'm like

[00:07:14] seeing people like really actively doing this um yeah I started to think about going through

[00:07:22] like going down the route of testing last fall but wasn't sure about insurance coverage and

[00:07:29] there was just like I guess it just wasn't the right time. I just put that on pause

[00:07:33] and then yeah there's something that really shifted. There are a few life circumstances

[00:07:39] that shifted recently where um I finally found a new place to rent which has been like a

[00:07:44] multi-year process because it's just so hard to find around here um and yeah some things

[00:07:51] with my job have felt more stable and it was like something in the last like two months has

[00:07:57] really like shifted um I guess my willingness to explore deeper so I have my first appointment

[00:08:07] with Seattle Reproductive Medicine on Monday to just like have a first call and like

[00:08:16] that my intention with them is to like testing and just like see where I'm at. I also got my

[00:08:22] IUD taken out to just let my body go back to baseline and that was like two months ago and

[00:08:30] so yeah it feels like there's like and I've started you know I think one of the other

[00:08:34] things that's been yeah I've just started you know I have my list of like who would

[00:08:38] I use as a known donor and like what yeah I've had more conversations with people I've

[00:08:43] been like pretty open with many people not all like I've dropped in little hints with some people

[00:08:49] like yeah in the next couple years this is something I'm thinking about. I've also been

[00:08:53] like very actively dating and that is both sometimes very hopeful and many times like

[00:09:01] this is horrible and I hate it. It's so exhausting um yeah so kind of like still

[00:09:09] many irons in the fire but um yeah I think I'm thinking definitely we'll see how all the

[00:09:17] testing goes but thinking about maybe egg freezing and maybe I've just learned about

[00:09:22] split cycle freezing and freezing some embryos as like uh like more reliable possibility.

[00:09:32] Yeah and sometimes I have to ask I mean you're in Seattle which I can imagine

[00:09:38] I'm guessing is a fairly kind of open-minded place for the most part but when you start

[00:09:43] telling people that this is something you're considering what has the response been?

[00:09:47] Mostly like oh cool like not super yeah I like had a little bit of a conversation with my mom

[00:09:55] and it was I think you know for people who either have kids or really understand

[00:10:03] what that process of having a child is like their biggest concern is like yeah the amount

[00:10:10] of work and labor and not having a person like the just like concern of you wouldn't have

[00:10:16] somebody to do it with and like yeah I guess there's still some like well just hold out for

[00:10:21] the right person and all of that. When you think about it like when you are considering

[00:10:28] this as an option is there anything that feels like you are concerned about or like

[00:10:36] questions that you are still trying to solve in your own head to kind of figure out

[00:10:41] if this is the right time or if it's not what needs to happen for it to be the right time?

[00:10:48] Or I guess it could be down to two. One is finances like I work in a non-profit,

[00:10:54] I love my job, I have a lot of flexibility with my job and like I make under $60,000 a year

[00:11:05] and in the Seattle area so another progress step I made was like really getting my budget honed

[00:11:11] down recently to really understand like okay am I just like making it up? Am I in sort of

[00:11:19] a scarcity mindset of like oh I don't have enough money to do this but I was like okay

[00:11:23] I have the dollar amount of like what I would need a raise to even afford basic things let alone

[00:11:30] child care whole different question. So I think finances is probably the biggest like logistical

[00:11:38] barrier of like which is helpful to know now because it's like if I wanted to do this in

[00:11:43] two years I either need to change jobs or like get a promotion in some way or move to

[00:11:51] a more affordable area. So that feels like some like challenge that also feels like very

[00:11:57] realistic and very like figure outable in some way. Yeah that's one avenue and then the or

[00:12:04] like one concern the other one is yeah just the like I don't actually like I don't know

[00:12:13] there's part of me that totally can see and want to do it on my own and there's another

[00:12:17] part of me that I just see the sweetness in co-parenting and sharing that yeah they're

[00:12:26] part I just see both sides like I can I'm a real uh like one of my first phrases as a toddler

[00:12:32] was I'm a do it and I am absolutely an I'm a do it person and like not having to figure out

[00:12:41] co-parenting with somebody I could see really loving and I could also see a lot of grief and

[00:12:49] loneliness and sadness in other ways um and I don't know if that's just I'm sure there's

[00:13:00] realness in both sides and also like story in both sides. Yeah what a beautiful way of putting

[00:13:07] it I've never heard someone refer to it that way and so I love that you're thinking about it

[00:13:11] that way and I do think there's I think there's oftentimes kind of a little bit of grief in this

[00:13:18] choice for people because it does feel like you're picking this instead of something else.

[00:13:22] I now I'm in a different spot where I feel like I've just switched the order but I

[00:13:27] certainly agree with you there's there's I love that you said that there's there is a

[00:13:31] sweetness in co-parenting and there is there can be a lot of sweetness in partnership and

[00:13:36] creating a family together and I certainly had to grieve the loss of that a little bit as I moved

[00:13:42] toward this um and now I just see it kind of coming in at a later date but um I'm with you

[00:13:51] there's it's it's all of the above right it's there's positives and and benefits to both

[00:13:56] sides and there's grief on both sides and there's loneliness on both sides and um so

[00:14:01] I hear you and that's a much less like linear problem than finances right which feels like

[00:14:08] math let's just do some math let's like run some numbers and see when this is is possible

[00:14:15] and the other side is way more just kind of battling you know what's going on in your

[00:14:20] head and what feels right yeah and like how to know like when to stop trying like when to

[00:14:28] stop or like pause the dating process or the like oh maybe this will be with another person

[00:14:34] and like yeah that feels so sort of amorphous mysterious spiritual just like uh give it up

[00:14:45] to the universe kind of question that is harder than just like okay in two years

[00:14:51] x amount of dollars um yeah and on the flip side I've also thought through like

[00:14:58] what a beautiful possibility to do it on your own just like of all the people I have in my

[00:15:05] life who might have an opportunity to show up in a different way if that were if I were doing

[00:15:10] it yeah and community like I'm in a really strong knit community here that I could imagine

[00:15:15] really showing up for me and yeah my friend asked me like who would you have at your at your

[00:15:20] birth like at your home birth if you did this on your own and just thinking through that was like

[00:15:25] oh that's exciting to think about like if it wasn't just me and my partner you know

[00:15:29] I don't know if you listen to the I think it's the fourth episode of the first season but

[00:15:33] my best friend is a midwife and a mom of four and she she said something in that interview

[00:15:38] and it was way before I was pregnant that really hit me which was in response to what you

[00:15:42] just said which is she sees people show up for single moms and parents in community in a way

[00:15:50] she doesn't see people show up for partnered couples because they assume they're good right

[00:15:54] they're they have each other they're supporting each other but she is always I think really

[00:15:59] kind of impressed and moved by the amount of support and I felt very similar to you Phoebe

[00:16:03] before I had Ellie it was like I have all these amazing people in my life like I will

[00:16:08] be fully supported and that happened beyond my wildest dreams but also something you just

[00:16:15] nailed is that people show up in such different ways than you would think and I've had folks

[00:16:22] who I just didn't expect to be in the roles they would be in in our life just morph into

[00:16:28] these totally different support folks for us and it has been mind-blowing so you're I think

[00:16:36] you're set up to to really kind of have some amazing people in your life I think

[00:16:42] yeah I'm curious like how did you navigate that second piece of like

[00:16:48] yeah what was that process like for you you know I was I was not quite a bit I was a

[00:16:54] little bit older than you so I started the process at 38 I froze my eggs at 36

[00:16:58] the reason I really went down that path was twofold one I went through a pretty serious

[00:17:02] breakup and a person that I kind of thought might be moving in that path and so you know

[00:17:07] very often that's what I hear from people is that's when it kind of starts and then I had

[00:17:13] cancer as a kid and so when I started thinking about freezing my eggs it also kind of opened

[00:17:19] this whole rabbit hole of oh man maybe my chances at having a baby are lower than they

[00:17:26] would be typically at my age because of the chemotherapy and I'll never really know if that

[00:17:31] was the case but it just got me down a path of like let's just get a whole bunch of answers

[00:17:35] and do a whole bunch of testing and see what's going on here and by the time I got so far into

[00:17:40] that I was so far in that I was like let's just do this thing and I was almost 40 and so

[00:17:45] it was the age that got me there but I really I really wanted to find a partner I think I

[00:17:53] kept thinking it would happen I tried every avenue you could possibly think of and it felt

[00:17:58] to me like you know the universe or whatever was telling me like this is not gonna work for you

[00:18:05] right now right now like you know I say the apps hated me and I hated the apps like I just

[00:18:12] I just wasn't getting any positive reinforcement that this avenue was gonna like reap any

[00:18:18] results and so it felt like the right time but it was a lot of things in tandem and it had

[00:18:26] been a couple years in the making of me thinking and me as you said really struggling with the

[00:18:32] finances yeah I was in a very similar spot than you then you were financially starting

[00:18:38] the process and it got it got a little darker from there on out but yeah it's really tough to

[00:18:44] wrap your head around the cost and how you're gonna do it and not knowing what it's gonna cost

[00:18:50] right it's like also really challenging I think for folks like us who are running those numbers

[00:18:56] yeah and I think with the cost another just interesting piece of my job life is that I

[00:19:04] well I work a job that I absolutely love in a very obscure sort of field that there aren't other

[00:19:11] jobs quite like this and the thought of giving it up is like sort of heartbreaking you know

[00:19:17] the thought of like I'll just go back I worked at Amazon for a little while I've worked

[00:19:21] in startups and the thought of like going back to something corporate and like something that

[00:19:26] would make this more affordable is so that's not what I want you know um yeah but yeah do you

[00:19:32] talk to your company about it or is your company like do you even have relationships

[00:19:37] like that where it would be in a conversation you could have it is yeah it's a conversation

[00:19:41] I've thought about having at some point I did let my I'm in a team my team's only four

[00:19:47] people and I let my team know last June that that was something I was thinking about in the

[00:19:53] in the next couple of years but now that I like I feel much more researched in like and

[00:20:00] I have data and I'm like I need this much to make this work like it would be a different

[00:20:05] conversation and there's a little bit of like yeah I think I have some nervousness of bringing

[00:20:10] it up with um the person above my boss because of like there is a chance of maybe having a

[00:20:15] promotion in the future and it's like I would that jeopardize that opportunity and yeah

[00:20:20] that's something that we have to think about really real possibilities have you kind of

[00:20:26] I'm guessing it since it's a small non-profit the opportunity to like have insurance pay

[00:20:30] for this I'm guessing it's probably not on the table is there maternity leave

[00:20:34] um just the like state with watching Washington State has really good family leave I think it's

[00:20:41] like four months maybe wow that's amazing yeah there's some like and yeah the I don't actually

[00:20:49] understand all of it but I just talked to one of my friends who just had a baby um I yeah

[00:20:54] they're two women who just had babies within the last two years one of them just had a

[00:20:58] second who work at the same organization and just hearing their experiences it sounds like

[00:21:03] they've had a lot of support and flexibility and like like one of them works from home and

[00:21:09] just has her kid at home with her and her husband's out you know making is somewhat

[00:21:16] supportive of like taking the kid sometimes but my job is more in the field in the wilderness

[00:21:22] on and off a little a little less strap them on and take with you somewhat I feel inspired

[00:21:29] you know that's still I'm grateful to have family members who inspire me that's possible

[00:21:34] but if there was another place for me in the organization it would be more office space

[00:21:39] which would be more conducive for this in a lot of ways but still very TBD yeah it there's so I

[00:21:47] mean it's so funny there's like I think that you're going about it the right way Phoebe

[00:21:51] which is like getting the right numbers in place having a clear sense of what this might

[00:21:56] cost I think is really fantastic right and then at some point similar to the other kind of

[00:22:04] struggle that we were talking about you kind of just have to let it go

[00:22:08] like if you get to a place where this is feeling like the right thing for you

[00:22:13] you kind of just have to let it go a little bit in terms of knowing that you're not going

[00:22:17] to know and trusting that that those co-workers are gonna you know show up for you in the way

[00:22:26] that you're seeing them show up for your other folks and I think there's a lot to be said

[00:22:29] for having colleagues who have kids yeah where if you're like hey guys I gotta move a call

[00:22:36] my kiddo's sick having those people be like no problem and then they're gonna do the same

[00:22:40] thing to you the following week right I think there's a lot to be said for that and I do

[00:22:44] think the corporate world where sometimes it it wins in this game because there's better

[00:22:51] benefits the freedom that you have is I think can be a really amazing benefit both for you

[00:23:00] and your time with your baby because I really leaned into that a lot in my early days because

[00:23:04] I needed to sleep so I'd take her to school and then go back and sleep for 45 minutes which

[00:23:11] I never could have done had I gone to a nine-to-five you know so again there's like the

[00:23:16] it's it's a it's constantly me reminding people who say like I don't know how you do it and I'm

[00:23:24] like I don't like you you do the same thing I'm doing except you also keep a partnership

[00:23:29] together like I don't have the energy for that and you don't have the energy for this

[00:23:33] and I work for myself but you work for a company and you have benefits and I don't

[00:23:37] like it's it's I think at the end of the day if you just like put us all in a washer

[00:23:42] would pretty much feel similar I think but you won't know until you know which is really

[00:23:51] really hard yeah I'm curious if you like what kind of resources you used or recommend for

[00:23:59] the like questions around what the actual cost of this aside from the like I know the I have

[00:24:06] a pretty good sense of what the fertility journey of just creating this small human could look like

[00:24:15] but the like month that's the hardest part I mean I think um I think it's like a decision

[00:24:24] tree right it's you know adoption is a certain cost IVF is a certain cost IVF if you need just

[00:24:30] sperm is a cost and then if you need sperm and egg that's a whole different cost how many

[00:24:34] rounds you do like it everything gets a little bit complex if you have a basic sense of that

[00:24:39] I think it's really helpful your fertility team will be able to walk you through all of that and

[00:24:44] hopefully give you some information by email also that like has the specific costs so

[00:24:50] if you feel like you have your head wrapped around what that could be then that is the

[00:24:53] biggest leap the raising the baby thing for me has been a drop in the bucket compared to

[00:25:01] fertility costs yeah I mean one week of shots is the same as my child's entire month of child care

[00:25:11] you know I did a little bit of research about child care costs prior to in Boulder I knew that

[00:25:19] again based on all the answers I knew that I work for myself so I wasn't going to need to

[00:25:24] go to an office every day so I had a little bit of flexibility there I knew that my house is

[00:25:29] way too small to have an au pair which is by far the best financial choice I think and then I

[00:25:35] looked into all the child cares in Boulder and just like I just tapped all my mom friends of

[00:25:41] what are the different child cares where do you go where do you go

[00:25:45] and everybody knew of three or four different ones and I compiled them and then just kind

[00:25:49] of did some online research the prices in my world were like pretty similar yeah and again

[00:25:56] I didn't go too far down that path because there weren't any spots

[00:26:02] right so like I could have spent a month doing research on child cares but it's not like I just

[00:26:06] get to pick one um and it's you know it's really interesting I both say this too I kind

[00:26:11] of budgeted I thought about the fact that since I do have a little bit of freedom with

[00:26:15] my job that I would only want my child in child care three days a week what I realized

[00:26:20] is a the only spot I got in all Boulder was a five-day spot and at first I was like it's fine

[00:26:26] I'll just pay for it but if I don't want to take her five days I won't and what I've realized is

[00:26:31] child care for me is the key to my survival I have single mom friends who have their kids

[00:26:36] home with them and they work full time um I am not as a human being capable of handling

[00:26:41] both those things at once um and my child absolutely loves school yeah yeah she gets sick

[00:26:49] of me she's ready to she gets cabin fever in our tiny little apartment like she is so ready to

[00:26:55] go to school she loves it and so she goes five days a week and it feels 100% like the right

[00:27:01] thing for me and for us that's about 1700 dollars a month wow so I think that's pretty

[00:27:07] like I don't know I would say on par-ish for a small city but there's community daycares

[00:27:15] I have friends who take their kids down the street to somebody who watches you know 10 or 12

[00:27:19] kids right it gets just a matter of looking at all the options and I would say just tap

[00:27:23] all your mom friends yeah what do they know about what are their friends like go to the

[00:27:28] websites and and once you start the process to like see if they have bots but just like

[00:27:35] pick a number that feels like it's in the middle of all those and prepare for that unless

[00:27:40] you feel like you want the kid to be home with you and that of course is the most

[00:27:44] financially easy option I that was not a fit for my family yeah that makes sense I don't know

[00:27:50] we'd lose our minds yeah I know I'm also going to be living in a very small

[00:27:55] situation continually because of the area and the rents and all that around here but yeah

[00:28:02] yeah I could imagine like the first year doing that when there's a little running

[00:28:08] around I mean that's my biggest expense so if you can find a way to find it like get a sense

[00:28:15] of what that number kind of looks like generally for the type of child care that would be ideal

[00:28:19] for you and then add on to it your health care insurance well maybe not fully double but like

[00:28:27] add another third is what my experience was and then I said yes to every hand me down

[00:28:34] anyone offered me I still do I don't care if people are cleaning out their garages like

[00:28:40] I just said yes and I take all of it and so I didn't buy a stroller I didn't buy high chair

[00:28:47] like I just those costs can really add up but that's when your your people show up for you

[00:28:54] and those who have kids this is the benefit of being kind of one of the ones to have a

[00:28:59] kid sooner is like they are so ready to get it out of their house like people are thrilled to just

[00:29:04] get it away so yeah child care and health care I think are the two biggest costs and then

[00:29:11] in my most recent stage at 18 months I've started kind of budgeting a little bit more

[00:29:18] for babysitters so I can like this winter I budgeted for three days where I could go skiing

[00:29:24] yeah yeah yeah which is a it's a big expense but I was like I want to go skiing with friends

[00:29:30] three times and so I budgeted for that so little stuff like that as things evolve but

[00:29:34] that's that's the biggest piece for sure rent child care insurance okay that's great yeah

[00:29:43] your birth costs are mine were not small yeah so but I have crappy insurance because

[00:29:50] I work for myself another another up down to the totally with a personal freedom

[00:29:58] but I mean I've said this before you've probably heard me say on the podcast I

[00:30:00] waited way too long Phoebe I let the I let the financial piece scare me for way way way

[00:30:06] too long and that I don't want that to seem as like a white woman boulder privilege kind

[00:30:13] of thing I just I let myself think that you know making 50 grand or whatever I was making

[00:30:18] when I started the process wasn't enough and my house wasn't big enough and it was going to be

[00:30:25] so hard and I wasn't going to be able to do any of the things that made me happy because I

[00:30:29] wasn't gonna have the money to do it or travel it just hasn't been my reality

[00:30:34] we've just taken road trips and gone to stay with friends overnight at their house which is

[00:30:39] an hour away like we've just I don't know you just shift yeah I appreciate hearing that

[00:30:45] and it's you shift the way you spend yeah but yeah it's not it's you know you gotta have the

[00:30:50] money in the bank to pay those bills monthly so I think you're thinking about all the right ways

[00:30:55] an endless way of an endless possibility of planning planning planning and then I just

[00:31:02] I also know there's so many people I see in the world in my life even who are just like

[00:31:07] oh I'm having a kid didn't expect that and we're definitely not prepared or thinking for

[00:31:12] years ahead you know there's like so many ways this happens in the world that it's like

[00:31:16] even trusting that I know there's a way to do it responsibly and then there's a way to like

[00:31:21] over over plan and over yeah you said earlier that you had been thinking of a list of known

[00:31:27] donors do you have some people in your life that you think would I don't know into it

[00:31:35] I've had one person be like very just like oh yeah just let me know you know

[00:31:40] really but it hasn't been a really serious conversation that was like kind of a flippant

[00:31:46] remark after yeah at one point so I don't know yeah there are a couple other people who have

[00:31:52] been just like yeah who yeah who maybe doesn't necessarily want kids of their own but is open

[00:32:02] yeah I don't know it's been an idea it's a very small list of people I even consider

[00:32:08] and then I'm like how the fuck would I like initiate that conversation and like what does

[00:32:14] that look like and yeah yeah I don't know very much a bridge to cross maybe soon if I did decide

[00:32:23] to do um like a split cycle and do embryos frozen um and I would say too when you maybe

[00:32:32] this first meeting isn't the time do that with your fertility team but they will absolutely be

[00:32:38] able to tell you what steps that person would have to go through medically yeah so when you

[00:32:43] do have that conversation which I'm sure if these people are important to you in your life

[00:32:48] that it'll just it'll be funny and it'll be real and it'll be crazy all wrapped into one

[00:32:53] right um but in terms of the logistics your fertility team will really be able to say hey

[00:32:58] here's what this looks like for them um and the commitment that they're making and then you know

[00:33:04] there's a lot of legal a lot of in the northwest actually um lawyers who specialized

[00:33:10] in this that would be able to kind of help you with that side of things right and you

[00:33:15] know lawyers therapists fertility just build us just build a team long makes a village

[00:33:22] yeah absolutely and I do have another there's somebody in a like

[00:33:26] past community in Seattle who I know who did this she did a I don't know her whole journey

[00:33:31] but I actually just was I joined a Seattle uh single parent by choice Facebook group and I

[00:33:38] was like oh my god I have a mutual friend here and then I remembered I was like oh my

[00:33:41] god I forgot she did this like five years ago maybe or three years ago there are people I'm

[00:33:46] excited to continue to like just ask more about their journey and reach out to and

[00:33:51] where have you I'm so curious found the most information like what has been helpful for you

[00:33:58] podcasts Facebook groups like what has helped yeah this podcast single greatest choice podcast

[00:34:06] Facebook groups that's I mean I remember at some point early on I tried like googling

[00:34:13] things and it was just so not helpful yeah there's like so that's a really good lesson

[00:34:19] for you just in parenting never turn to Google for the answers to any of your concerns that's

[00:34:24] not where you should go I would also augment if you don't have a friend in health care

[00:34:29] specifically nurse pa np round one of those up because the google is not helpful but if

[00:34:37] you have a friend who is who can answer some basic medical questions totally yeah I have a

[00:34:43] friend or again a really great pediatrician which you will have my one of my friends

[00:34:51] we went to college together and she just had her first baby and she's a doctor now so

[00:34:57] um yeah I'll be leaning into that and then I also went through training to be a doula

[00:35:03] a few years ago I I so that was another I forgot this part of my journey was

[00:35:08] when my sister and I was pregnant with my niece I remember picking up the book the birth

[00:35:13] partner by Penny Simkin and being like holy shit birth is amazing and I was just like so

[00:35:20] enthralled and I got really I have so many doula and midwife friends and I just like

[00:35:25] suddenly got like so excited about it so I went through my training to be a doula I got

[00:35:30] to do a low one of my friend's births and then I just got sidetracked down this other

[00:35:35] path so oh my gosh I love birth and I love this whole like that has been just something for

[00:35:41] the last maybe five years that's been pretty alive and like you know is a back pocket like

[00:35:48] could be a career in the future but not I'm not not I watched a friend do it via doula as a

[00:35:54] single mom with two young kids and it was rough because of the midnight surprise babies and

[00:36:01] all that but yeah so I think I feel really like I've been able to be really supportive

[00:36:07] of a lot of my friends in their birth journeys and their pregnancy journeys and that feels like

[00:36:12] a good chunk of knowledge I already have which yeah I mean to say that you have a lot of doula

[00:36:19] and midwife friends I mean you're you're you're dialed like you're I mean you don't

[00:36:24] need to worry about who's going to be at your birth there's all your midwife friends will

[00:36:28] will fight to be at your birth yeah and there's nothing more fun than having a baby

[00:36:33] with the people who are either at your birth center at your house or at the hospital

[00:36:37] and then them having peers who are your friends that are there like it's fun just watching them

[00:36:42] do their thing I almost felt like a lot during my birth I was just kind of like watching

[00:36:45] everyone else interact just laughing at like them all falling in midwife and doctor love

[00:36:50] with each other that's awesome wow you have a you have a lot of knowledge of this then

[00:36:57] of of what details and the experience that's incredible and then I'm so I mean like yeah I

[00:37:03] mean my sister-in-law's a paramedic and just an incredible mom it's like I've gotten so much

[00:37:10] like close family like watching this early stage and like taking care of a six-week-old three

[00:37:17] month old like being in the bay I feel really pretty aware in the baby stage it's like the

[00:37:22] toddler when they start running around and being wild that um yeah who knows what that

[00:37:29] how that would state my life and what others would be needed and yeah yeah you uh

[00:37:37] you go stage by stage and kind of shift shift what you need and who you need as they

[00:37:43] grow up for sure my you know and I think that also is balanced with what you need

[00:37:49] you know I think what I need as a human in terms of rest and travel and free time and

[00:37:56] sleep has totally shifted at over the course of 18 months um and it has become kind of a daily

[00:38:04] practice of mine to just kind of really be checking in on okay what do what do I really

[00:38:09] need right now like and it might be a nap it might be a shower if I might be doing great

[00:38:14] and what I need is like you know to see some friends this weekend and take Ellie with me or

[00:38:18] to get outside and in nature and take a hike but it it is kind of a constant thing

[00:38:23] because it's different every day yeah because my energy my batteries are different every day

[00:38:29] of like what I'm capable of doing um and if you started dating again is that like on your radar

[00:38:36] my question I am always I have always been and continue to always be open to dating I've

[00:38:43] never like ever closed that door the door that I did goes was apps I would go through weeks

[00:38:50] where I would swipe on the maximum amount of people a day just as a social experience and

[00:38:54] experience ends and none of those people would swipe back like for years years and years and

[00:38:59] years so it just the apps were telling me that they didn't like me like the apps were telling

[00:39:05] me it wasn't a fit and so I have closed the door completely on that side of things um

[00:39:11] and then but yeah I'm always open to meeting someone I think at this point based on kind of my

[00:39:17] time and availability and and you know the other thing the app said was not making me feel that

[00:39:21] good about myself and so I think as a single mom the last thing I need is anything in my life

[00:39:26] that feels like toxic or is like taking away any of my strength or confidence so

[00:39:34] off off with you apps um but yeah I've told everyone in my life that you know if they

[00:39:38] know anybody I'll I will go and meet anyone at any time for a coffee or a beer and I have

[00:39:43] a kind of deep gut sense that that's the way that I'll meet somebody but yeah the apps are not

[00:39:49] not it and I mean based on kind of what I just said too it's not like I don't have free time

[00:39:54] you just have to plan a little bit for that free time and so for me to go on a first date at

[00:39:59] night for instance would mean I would need to get a babysitter so like I'm never going to

[00:40:04] go on a first date at night unless like it's a friend of a friend that I think is going to

[00:40:08] be really fun right because that's money out of my pocket it's a lot of pre-planning or to go to

[00:40:14] a place where typically like just go out to a bar to meet people or go to like an event where I

[00:40:18] can meet people it would take so much pre-planning for me to do that that spending

[00:40:24] my time kind of looking for someone in that way is not what I do but what I would rather

[00:40:29] do is like you know a good friend of mine has a dinner party for sure I'm going to get

[00:40:34] a sitter and I'm going to go and if someone's there great but I'm not there for that purpose

[00:40:38] I'm there to have like my cup filled as a adult without a toddler you know and like with

[00:40:44] friends around me so it also kind of just falls so low on the list of like what I have time

[00:40:49] for and where I want to put my energy at this point that is the one thing that I constantly

[00:40:55] have to remind people of a little bit is if I want to do anything on my own it costs money

[00:41:00] so you know budgeting for going skiing is a significant amount of money in a mountain

[00:41:06] town to get a babysitter for those times right if I want to take a trip without my child it is

[00:41:11] an insane amount of money to have a sitter with her or you know dates dinner parties etc that's

[00:41:16] you know 20 plus bucks an hour to go do something like that and so for me it's got

[00:41:21] to be worth it and it's got to fill my cup it's got to give me energy those people I'm

[00:41:26] saying yes to have to give me energy I'm saying no to a lot more than I did before you know

[00:41:32] I kind of love that even as just a yeah just like a thought experiment before having kids of

[00:41:38] like I find myself often saying yes to things that I don't aren't super nourishing all the

[00:41:44] time and it's like yeah I just I love that even as a metric of like what I spend what

[00:41:49] I pay money to like take care of a kid while I go do this and is it gonna fill me

[00:41:54] justifying that yeah there's just no you know it is the I think one of the downsides it's

[00:42:00] like I can't just leave the baby with my husband and go grab a drink with somebody it takes so

[00:42:05] much pre-planning um and scheduling to make that happen and and I'm also I have two careers

[00:42:11] but one of my jobs is a realtor and one of the toughest things about being a realtor is

[00:42:15] those weekends that weekend time going to see properties or having an open house and so I

[00:42:20] have to be so on top of scheduling and have babysitters who like will answer my call and

[00:42:28] love my kiddo and I throw a little thank yous here and there because I'm like I need you on

[00:42:32] the Rolodex you are a part of my support system um it's tough but it just takes you know

[00:42:39] it takes a lot of planning

[00:42:41] By the way.

[00:42:43] Oh wow I really yeah just all the all the puzzle pieces and just that it works like

[00:42:51] the puzzle piece it's fit if they're yeah you know it it's so like more than fits

[00:42:59] I think I really expected this experience to be just kind of exhausting um and a lot of people

[00:43:07] in my life tried to tell me like yeah but with that comes all this joy and all this happiness

[00:43:13] and all these like simple moments that are going to fill your cup in 30 seconds in the way that

[00:43:18] a week-long trip never would have prior to and I believe them but you don't know until

[00:43:22] you know and I I mean I am so grateful for the times where it's easy and my cup is

[00:43:31] full because my kid is just walking around in her feety pajamas and like that makes me

[00:43:34] happier than any international trip I've ever taken sometimes right and then there's other

[00:43:40] times where it's like a dinner with friends and her with the sitter fills my cup and it's just

[00:43:45] a matter of paying attention to that but I do I agree that it I have never I've never felt

[00:43:52] more balanced in my life which I thought would be the exact opposite and I think a lot of it is

[00:43:58] like what you're talking about like saying no to the thing like do you know the things I

[00:44:01] don't want to do saying yes to the things I know are going to make me joyful but there's so much

[00:44:06] more joy coming in constantly than I had as a single person in my late 30s so the my bad

[00:44:15] my energy battery might be a lot lower consistently every day but my ability to just like be happy

[00:44:21] and laughing um is like through the roof I'm just like a tired happy person at all times

[00:44:28] I should have called this podcast tired and happy that that is that that sums up my whole life I

[00:44:37] think I love that yeah but it's such a cool frame I haven't like heard quite in the same

[00:44:44] way because I do see like Facebook posts and have here heard a lot about how exhausting it

[00:44:49] can be and how you don't have reprieve and you don't have yeah yeah a lot you don't have

[00:44:54] and then but just the how worth it is on on the same in the same side of the same coin you know

[00:45:02] yeah and you you get a reprieve you just have to plan for it and sometimes that means asking

[00:45:07] your friends to come over and watch your baby because you can't spend money on a babysitter

[00:45:10] and sometimes it means paying a babysitter um and then when you get child care everything

[00:45:17] changes because then you know what hours of the day you have to do whatever it is you need to do

[00:45:23] um which does change a lot I thought in my world like oh my god I can do laundry like in between

[00:45:30] calls like this is amazing idea like I have 15 minutes in between calls like I'm working from

[00:45:36] home today I'm gonna take a shower like it blew my mind and then I got what I needed but

[00:45:42] um I you know I hope this goes without saying I'm here to support you and answer any

[00:45:47] questions that you have throughout this process and um I just think you have such a good attitude

[00:45:52] about it already and such a good I think real sense of what you're getting into I mean I had

[00:45:59] no idea what birth would be like and I thought I did but you really know what birth is like

[00:46:04] yeah um so I'm here to support you and you'll I think you'll know when you know

[00:46:10] yeah thank you so much this has been just delightful so sweet thanks so much for

[00:46:18] listening to today's episode I hope you enjoyed it for more information about the podcast or me

[00:46:23] go to unbkidpod.com see you soon thank you for listening to this episode if you or your

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