Mae Estes: The 90s Called

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_01] I haven't either though. I like, I'm waiting for like the perfect show but although like every time I try to like get online and get tickets like yeah I can't like there I don't know how they do it. It's literally impossible. Yeah, so I just need to make sure my manager writes this down so that next time we're playing. See if y'all are here and if you are. We get like four seats every time we play, which is like 25% of the play. Oh, yeah. So there it's crazy. But I've been playing it so long now I can share it used to be like yeah my mom has a seat locked down no matter what but now it's like none of my

[00:00:38] [SPEAKER_03] friends or husband want to come anymore. They've been so many times which is totally fair. Yeah, so I'm like I can invite friends. Yeah, fun. Well, I'm pretty sure we already started recording but welcome to Whiskey Riff Raff, Mae Estes. Thank you. Um, you are actually the first artist we're talking to since Dolly passed. And so I feel like you're actually might be the perfect person to discuss everything considering you love the 90s and obviously she spanned much longer than the 90s but was also peak then too. So

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_01] how did you feel and how did you take it? Well, it's crazy you talk about how much Dolly Parton Parton has like her career has spanned because I just saw a video of her winning Entertainer of the Year in like the early 70s I think at the CMAs and that was just so crazy to see that truly she's still I mean at the height of her career in my opinion even if it's pivoted some but she was a huge influence of mine from literally age seven. Like I grew up on Dolly, Loretta, Tammy. I was literally that

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01] little girl singing don't come home and drinking with loving on your mind at seven and stuff. So the classic country is really where it started and Dolly was probably the reason I moved to Nashville. Um, I have always had the love of music and singing and and believe I can like keep that forever which is so so special but making it a career and literally like Dolly Parton-ing this thing or Reba McIntyre-ing this thing is what I call it was

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_01] moving to the town where the business was and the hub because I know myself and I know what I love and I know the music because I study it but I don't know anything about business especially before I moved here and so women like Dolly who used their musical gift to build this gigantic brand and help so many people um through every kind of fast I mean Dolly has just touched so many kind of people for so many generations and so

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_01] really inspired by the business um she built out of the musical gift and so yeah I think I've been talking to my friends about this a ton obviously losing Dolly is kind of feels like maybe what everyone felt like when Elvis was gone or something but I haven't really felt her um like a lack of presence of her yet so I think the grief isn't going to hit me until because she is everywhere

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_01] and she worked so hard to have her hands in so many different things so I don't feel her absence yet um but I got to sing on the Grand Ole Opry the day after we heard about Dolly and my friend Josh Matheny and I were going to sing Coda Many Colors which is so special to me I've been singing it since I was itty bitty and I also come from a background with not a lot of money not a lot of resources small town um the big dreams are just

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00] such a special song

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_01] yeah but to everybody that's what's been so crazy is everyone puts their story in it but to me that like the value of money I feel like I learned so young which I never had any and still don't so I'd like to know uh I'd like to know the problems that they say it comes with yes but I do know that it won't make you happy it won't fulfill you um and that that all comes from from somewhere else and so that song has always meant that to me and to sing that song with my best friend Josh

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_01] who's been a huge mentor and brother to me in this industry on the Grand Ole Opry stage where Dolly has stood I mean there's videos of her standing there while you're standing there and thank God I didn't see what went viral with our video clip because when I got off stage obviously magical I was a little disassociated you kind of have to be to just make it through that there were probably 10 people band staff guests standing side stage when I got off stage and said

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01] did you see that and I was like what and uh they said there was a yellow butterfly flying around while we were performing and I'm a little bit of a pessimist and a cynic and I was like yeah it's probably a moth like whatever and um they started pulling out videos and then more people sent us videos throughout the night and I mean everyone up there was truly convinced it was a yellow butterfly and so that is something I'm going to carry with me for the rest of my life and

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_01] it's funny watching the people on Facebook and stuff now I'll be like moth it's confetti left over from something it's like okay to me it's exactly the message I needed which is that Dolly is where we think she is and that she's okay and everything's great but could be selfish but I also took that message to mean that I was right where I was supposed to be also um which is something I've struggled with and my you know I've just started my 12th year in a 10 year town and so

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_01] I think that moment meant a whole lot to me and I probably won't even know how much until I'm able to process it a little more fair

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_00] that classic social media taking something that is a beautiful moment and trying to spin it into some sort of conspiracy like oh that was definitely not what everybody's trying to say it is like how about we all just step back and say wow you know what a beautiful moment but that's not something that usually happens whenever you're online so I'm sure you're familiar with how people online are

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_01] I would love y'all's opinion on that actually because I'm kind of convinced strategically you have to about piss somebody off to get their attention on socials these days and that can be as simple as this is the best George Strait song ever and whatever song I play you're triggered to say no this is it feels like you have to start a conflict

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_00] people definitely like to share their opinions and I think we've had proof of that through some things that we've done where you know some people at Whiskey Riff list their Mount Rushmore of 90s country songs or something like that and basically just putting out your own opinion then I guess invites or like you said triggers people to share theirs as well invite is friendlier

[00:06:43] [SPEAKER_03] I need to steal that word I know we did that and they're like how did no one have this song on and it's like well you only get four you only get four per person tour announcements

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_01] like we just announced I'm getting to go out with Little Big Town this fall which is so exciting and I'm a collaborator on the post so I get all of the notifications on the comments and half of them are no love for Texas no love for so and so like even the opening act like Ashley Monroe is one of the opening act and it's like Ashley hates this state she's the opening act on this tour and you think the opening act specifically Target it's just it's so funny but you almost have to lean into that I think

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_01] and hopefully in an innocent way you know where it's like okay we can disagree on who the best 90s country star is whatever but in our climate today you gotta be careful cause you're alienating a whole lot of people and all under misunderstanding and miscommunication sometimes and that's hard to be okay with as a human

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_00] and it seems like we sit here and talk to artists and social media always comes up in some form or fashion

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_03] it's hard not to come up

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_00] but it's very but it's very interesting cause we haven't had anyone sit and say like you have to maybe even intentionally a bit try to get people to feel some sort of emotion whenever they see something that you've posted and I guess that is true like that's what everyone's trying to do is grab attention and that happens to be one of the good ways to do it so other than you said you know this is the best George Strait song are there any other methods that you've found to be effective

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_01] I'm very much still just kind of collecting data and talking to people about it because I don't want it to be the truth but I study socials like they are a job like I have fun and it's a diary literally with how fast our lives go with touring and stuff I'll go back and look at my stories archive to be like where the hell was I this time last year I literally don't know so I enjoy a lot of it but yeah I'm trying to figure out how to get something I work really hard on and believe I'm making for people who just haven't heard it

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_01] to those people so I'm studying it like it's all a marketing tactic and yeah I think I've seen I've seen some friends or people in the business go far far one way or the other with that approach I've honestly I'm terrified of being misunderstood I don't know if that's an artist thing or a me thing or a human thing in general but I'm uncomfortable with saying something that I put a lot of heart behind and knowing that

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_01] the whole internet and world is going to take it and receive it how they want to and I don't get the chance to tell you that's not how I meant it but I'm okay with that in songs

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_02] well I'm glad you're here

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_01] right now

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_03] because the same thing is probably going to happen we'll post a clip of you with a title saying you know these are your thoughts on Dolly Parton and like you're only allowed a certain amount of seconds to post a clip along with that and it's just like well go listen to the full thing it doesn't matter what you said they're gonna be like well how did she not mention this even if it's just me saying it's a mob it's just a positive thing and they'll still find a way it's just yeah the climate we're in but what I find so interesting is that you were in Nashville

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_03] you said 12 years ago before you know the internet kind of took off and TikTok really took off and like changed people's careers which I'm sure that also helped you but that's not how you got your start or why you moved here or all that so usually we have people in here who have been affected by the you know the TikTok of it all yeah and so you said Dolly inspired you to come out here but what did that

[00:10:20] [SPEAKER_01] I started singing when I was seven back home in southwest Arkansas and so I've been singing with a band on stage for as long as I can remember but and I started writing songs and just mostly diarying and that kind of stuff and then when I got to town I didn't know anybody except Josh that I was talking about Josh Matheny he's a big session dobro player you hear him on the radio and all kind of stuff and I didn't know him personally but our families

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_01] had a bluegrass band together back in the day and so I was on Craigslist looking for a roommate kind of just have no idea but I knew I was stubborn I knew I had the work ethic and I knew I had some kind of crazy gift that I was trying to figure out where God intended that take me and so got here hit the ground running just networking meeting people Josh was such a blessing introduced me to his crew of people who are still a lot of my friend group today but I started working three jobs at a time

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_01] just trying to live here and pay bills and that was the time to pick am I going to go to Broadway and sing to make my living or am I going to go wait tables and do an admin assistant and temp and all that stuff and focus on the music as a hobby and pay my bills with this other thing and so tough decision and I have a lot of friends who've done both I don't think there's a right or wrong but I took the working jobs that didn't steal

[00:11:48] [SPEAKER_01] from my music part and just wrote with anyone who would write with me played any single show that anybody ever asked me to and did that for five years till I till COVID hit 2020 truly I think all of us were like we have to go live with our parents but I actually got a publishing deal during COVID in 2020 we had been talking on Zoom which is crazy and they offered me my first publishing deal after I'd been in town five years on Zoom and that's really

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_01] when I got to leave the restaurant industry and all those jobs so I really just got to start full time hitting the ground running on music after I'd been here for five years

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_03] that's crazy and I think I first heard you on Think About Cheating still I think a fantastic cheating song we love cheating songs in general I feel like in the 90s country era but it's just such a different perspective so how did was your writing what led to your publishing deal was it songs like that already or did those come kind of post

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_01] I think I think those songs definitely were I mean I have I have a unique perspective and I'm always trying to spend something or make people uncomfortable so I'm always looking for something unique to bring to the table so I think that got the attention but mostly I give full credit to my friend Autumn McIntyre who was writing songs for the first publisher I signed with and so I was singing all of our work tapes and demos and so my voice

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_01] is what got me in that room and so I've had to spend a lot of time becoming confident as a writer most of my friends say they're writer first singer second and I'm singer first I love to sing I have never shut up since I come out the womb my parents used to make me go sing in the horse trailer outside because I would never shut up so I'm singer first but slowly started to find my own voice and realized like I don't know I had a lot of friends encourage me like most people would

[00:13:55] [SPEAKER_01] not say this stuff whether it's not brave enough or not stupid enough or whatever it is but like I just realized I had this bravery and boldness to tell the truth and because it was the truth it was like however you receive that is okay because that's how I felt it so we're not arguing you know what I felt I know that and that's where I found a safety in writing songs and so yeah but I think my voice is what has gotten people to even look at me twice or give me

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_01] a chance or check out my music or anything like that so that's something I have noticed throughout

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_00] is it is it right that a rodeo arena was the first big venue that you ever played was it you were seven yeah okay so put yourself or maybe explain how that was as a seven-year-old standing in front of you know a crowd at a rodeo arena and bringing your voice like you like you said you love to do bringing it to people like that on such a large scale at such a young age yeah

[00:15:00] [SPEAKER_01] I think I think that's where I realized I had the entertainer bug because it wasn't about being good or prepared or like because that first national anthem I sang I grew up rodeoing forever and my mom ran the books and so we would play a Leanne Rimes version of the national anthem and one day I was like mom real deal in the flesh right here what are you doing give me that microphone and first of all gotta credit

[00:15:30] [SPEAKER_01] parents that would even give me the opportunity to do that and then they have supported me and encouraged me and every time I call and say I'm done I'm moving home it was like no you're not you're right where you're supposed to be and so gotta give my parents a lot of credit for just making me believe this was even possible you have to be taught you're even allowed to dream I think at some young age and so I'm grateful I was given that but yeah I just wasn't scared of it and that's honestly still the feeling

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01] I just there's a lot of it that is so hard about this industry but I have always found peace when I have a microphone and whatever the stage is sometimes it's just standing on some dirt sometimes it's in the corner you know whatever but I found I find a peace in that every time and I know it's exactly where I'm supposed to be and so that was the first time I felt that magical feeling and I sang like a 10 minute rendition of the anthem and changed keys probably about five times the cows were in

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_01] the background and it was just there's no telling what lyrics I messed up as a seven year old none of us still even know what any of that means as a grown up but I wasn't scared of it and I knew I could get better at it and so from that second it was just like this is my tool this is my gift and if I spend time with it and get to know it it's really going to be something that can take me as far as I want it to and so that moment was incredibly pivotal for everything I've done after

[00:16:58] [SPEAKER_00] yeah like not not many people are doing formative things at seven years old so that's definitely a really cool thing to like look back on is there a video anywhere out there

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_01] that my mom recorded every single time I sang the anthem and when's the last

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_00] time you saw that

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_01] um I've shared quite a bit because I just got to go home I love baby videos of me too I don't know if that's a weird thing or we all love that but I just got to go back to my hometown and play the watermelon festival which is the biggest dang thing in hope Arkansas y'all and Gretchen Wilson was our headliner and I got to open for her which is you know the redneck women are in South Arkansas and it's our fair park is right beside the rodeo arena that I sang in for the first time and it is frozen in time ain't much changed in hope Arkansas

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_01] and so um I had a content girl down with me and we just went and roamed around the rodeo arena and I got to tell stories and stand in the actual dirt and stand where I'd you know I rodeoed till I was 18 and graduated and moved um but 18 years of my life growing up in that rodeo arena and so it was really really cool to go back and genuinely see how far I've come and how I still carry that little girl and that seven year old audacity with me you know today in my 30s and so

[00:18:12] [SPEAKER_01] it's it's so full circle and that's been the theme through my whole journey and life in general is something that happened to me 10 years ago that doesn't seem like it's a blip on the radar comes all the way back around a decade later and I'm like that's why I learned that or I met that person or had that experience but God sure just lets me out here in the dark flail around I wish he'd give me a little heads up but a

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_00] flashlight even would

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_01] be yeah I mean and he's he's told me it's gonna be okay I just I've got trust issues you know like crazy and so but yeah the divine timing thing has proven itself more and more if I could just a little less white knuckle a little more open palm everything is always gone how it's supposed

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_03] to and even I feel like another divine timing thing is the first time I saw you perform it was a writer's round with Zach Topp who you know I feel like has become the 90s country resurgence yes person but you are also that person as 90s country is your brand as it is whiskey riffs brand for many many reasons so have you really felt that surgence since he's been blowing up and I mean he's selling out Bridgestone Arena which you know again three three years ago

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_03] he was in a writer's round for free just on in Midtown so yeah have you felt that surgence ever since he's his popularity as well

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_01] absolutely that I think I mean and I have a big friend group of you know neo-traditional throwback is kind of what we love and I think we've all been inspired to see that commercially it's got a spot so it's been so encouraging to watch Zach's success and to know that he has the same kind of organic background you know there are there's room for every kind of artist but there are the kind that started literally they don't remember their life without playing music

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_01] and performing it and writing it and living and breathing it and so it's really cool to see an artist and musician like Zach get the commercial credit for that so yeah I'm incredibly encouraged by that.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_03] Do you I mean I promise I'm not asking this for a negative like headline but how do you feel about you know artists where like 90s country wasn't their thing but they see the popularity of it so now they're leaning into it versus like this has always been your thing all your songs were about 90s country or like sounded like a 90s country just because that was your inspiration yeah so how do you feel about like artists now leaning into it when it's just because it's popular rather than it's their background I

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_01] think it's awesome so it makes sense that they would want to be a part of it if they weren't originally and I don't know if it's because I've been in town so long but I'm not I'm I'm not protective over the stuff that I love and that I do well in fact like the 90s called this project that I just got to make the reason I've had so much fun is because I mentally just put it in a place where it was like I use the

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_01] example well I don't remember the movie was it mean girls or whatever she wins the crown and she like breaks it off and starts throwing it to other people I had to do that with this project it was like no this is this is to celebrate a whole decade of music and hundreds of artists that were pivotal in this industry and genre in general much less my life but so yeah I'm I feel more like I'm waving the flag and if you love it and you want to be in it

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_01] everybody's welcome in the club because I just think this is great stuff and so yeah I feel almost reassured that it came back around and it's it's popular again because like you said it it has been where I've lived since I moved here and you're

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_03] doing that in an even more special way I feel like by working with some of those 90s country artists which I'm sure is a dream come true can you talk about some of the songs or some of your just experiences dealing with or meeting some of your heroes yeah

[00:22:15] [SPEAKER_01] well that's that's the whole other thing this project was an excuse for me to harass my heroes and I've gotten to become dear friends with so many of them which is just mind blowing I don't know when the imposter syndrome on that goes away I've just about stopped introducing myself to Vince Gill after we've written songs and released him together it's fine but the big one moon over Georgia with Shenandoah

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_01] man that one was crazy because we didn't get to just cover a song that had been out we took something I naturally started doing back in 2020 that we called female flips on YouTube where you know there's a million songs about women in country music and some of those classics there's a whole other side of the story that hasn't been told and it's not taking a rocket scientist songwriting like I would never claim any writing credit but just switching it to the female's

[00:23:11] [SPEAKER_01] perspective and changing a few pronouns or something tells a whole different story and so I was doing that for fun years ago and then running into Shenandoah at certain festivals and just having mutual friends and connections over the years and then this project I knew exactly when I found the outside song the 90s called that I wanted this project and that I knew I would have to release my version of Moon Over Georgia but truly not even on my dream list was that it would be a duet with Shenandoah

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_01] like that was that exceeded any anything I could have thought of and so to give Mark Narmore's song he wrote by himself it's classic it's timeless it's 2026 and we're all so connected to it I think they recorded in an 89 wasn't even here wasn't even born then and I still am so attached to that song and yeah for it to get a whole new life it's a duet now the woman is telling you he can keep all that money which I'm not sure she's

[00:24:09] [SPEAKER_01] the smartest but the woman in this song was like no I'm here for the real thing the love and having her say that from her own mouth instead of the you know the man saying that's what she decided it just it added a whole layer to something timeless and it was the coolest thing in the world I've gotten to sing it you know twice on stage now with Marty and Mike and they've been generous with their time

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_01] but also so excited about it and I think if I'm honest I wasn't sure what any of my heroes I approached I've prepared you know again pessimist I'm prepared for them to not even get back to me it's like cool it's awesome to even let you know I did but I've gotten to have genuine experiences with these people and them tell me you know sometimes we we feel like people have forgotten about us or things like that and to have any of my heroes say that and feel like I've gotten to lead a

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01] charge on reminding everyone how important where we come from is that's just so special to me well that can also

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_00] a song like that can help new new fans of country music go back and find this treasure trove of hits by a band that they might not have even ever heard of I mean I hope people had heard of Shenandoah but maybe they didn't and then they hear your song and then they discover so much music and that has to be cool too to kind of feel like you're almost giving people a map to find you know some of these great country artists that were I guess you could say were of yesteryear but still like you said just as relevant if you listen to their music

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_01] today yeah I think I think there are a lot of people who have only ever heard Zach Topp and they like it and it's about diving into who inspired you know I was like that with Leanne Womack is one of my favorite singers of all time and when I was diving in Leanne it was like who was she and she was inspired by Vern Gosden okay who's Vern Gosden and you know it's just finding the people you like and seeing who their inspirations are you're likely to find something else you like and so yeah if it's it

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_01] just boiled down to me mentally if my job is to brag about how much I love this and make the people feel as important as they were to me and shine a light on the songwriters and the session players you know we got to use Joe Spivey on fiddle on this project who played on every 90s country song you could imagine at the Opry I'm playing with you know Eddie Bears and Larry Paxton and all these musicians genuinely made the records

[00:26:39] [SPEAKER_01] I was even introduced to the artist on so to be in the studio cutting those songs with those people it's just I don't is that like Inception or like you know when you're just like I don't even know how that's reality but talking being in the town who who A&R'd our favorite records who pitched you know wide open spaces to the Dixie Chicks that kind of stuff only in Nashville could I call a friend who calls a friend and sits me down with a

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_01] producer that did that for coffee so it's just been a an excuse for me to go nerd out on the pieces of Nashville that I've dreamt about moving to because they're they're harder to find every day here this town has changed drastically in the time I've been here can't imagine you know since the 90s or even before so just melding what I love about what we're doing today and the freedom and you know no rules kind of vibes we got to music

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01] today and also carrying the pieces with me that I think keep me rooted in why I do

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_00] it and you mentioned like one of the coolest things you've gotten to do is write and perform at the Vince Gill what is that maybe that ultimate pinch me moment that you've experienced in your career where you're like I can't believe I'm getting to do this was it was it that

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_01] or too many too many too many the Opry has been a giant part of my journey and I started working there when I first moved to town one of those three jobs was the Opry shop and selling t-shirts harmonicas whatever they got ornaments and I worked there for like seven eight months while I also managed the Green Hills Victoria's Secret that's not there anymore

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_01] trauma an array an array of jobs the panty bar I'll never forget but I think all of those moments fit into the Opry somehow for me because getting asked to make my debut was a big surprise my buddy Josh was the one that got to deliver it for me and then I've played over 20 times in the last three years and at this point I've stopped counting which feels bad but I'm like that's how comfortable I am and how much they call me and they feel like

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_01] family there and I've gotten that's the thing I'm not sure my relationship with Vince would be the same without the Opry because you are in a dressing room hopefully with your door open because that's the encouraged policy at Opry and Vince Gills beside you with his door open and so is Brooks and Dunn on some days and so you know it's just you don't get any other opportunity to be on the same playing field as these absolute legends

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_01] and you definitely have no right to be first of all it's like I got no business having this access to these people but the Opry culture they've cultivated for years and it takes a lot of hard work to stay that relevant that long that's definitely fed so many relationships and moments that are just hard to believe and you talk

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_03] about you joked a couple times about like money but you like just named so much career success and I feel like a lot of people just assume you're putting out music you're touring you know you got you get to perform at the Opry that you must have so much money and you're so successful so can you explain what it's like and you know how much money goes into making music and kind of that side of it because I feel like you are very truthful and like honest about what the reality of the industry can

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_01] be as well yeah which is a problem yeah I think I don't know where to start it's a big big money conversation and I'm lucky to be like you said a touring artist that's kind of a separate part you're a recording artist I'm on a label for the last few years but I was indie before that so I've seen both sides of that and then I'm a songwriter so I have a publishing deal I've had for the last six years and that's a whole other income stream I'll

[00:30:42] [SPEAKER_01] say publishing has saved my life financially getting paid a publishing draw I write for Cobalt and Stephanie Cox has been an absolute champion mentor just blessing to me for so long but that draw is just about the only thing you can depend on and that's me being on a major label for the last four years and tore my butt off on gigantic shows you know really really big

[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_01] dream opportunities and yeah you're just about maybe breaking even if you're doing good on the road these days the touring conversation alone can take up all of the time you want I think economically we're directly affected in anything you're doing to travel so I don't think people think about that enough but think about gas prices think about flights think about hotel rooms you

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_01] know car rentals like we are got to be one of the biggest industries keeping that stuff moving and it's getting way way way higher we're not making any more we're getting paid less for our shows actually like the opening slots and stuff are are going down and people are struggling to buy tickets people are struggling to buy food like so it all makes sense economically but I think there's a disconnect when you put the

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_01] shiny you know rhinestone kind of part of the show is like you you you better not be doing it for the money because you're gonna be sorely disappointed for a

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_00] long time and you're right like things are expensive right now like I not too long ago I was just looking at a hotel and it it felt like to me it was in the middle of nowhere and it's like a hundred and eighty dollars a night it's like man I mean didn't feel like this used to be like this and then that's that's definitely an aspect that people don't think about it's like not only not only are you having to transport yourself but like your ever everybody that makes up your crew and all the equipment that has to make it to each location as well

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_00] it's just there's a lot of money that is spent just outside of the or I guess on the road not necessarily whenever whenever you're there for setup and stuff yeah and so is there like a light at the end of the tunnel like do you see do you see anything that could change or any anything that might help artists in that department as far as things becoming more affordable or is that just going to

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_00] be up to the up to the economy in the cosmos I'm not sure I think there will be a

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_01] lot of changes in touring we're already seeing them I mean we've got giant stadium tours that are like actually never mind because this isn't the level we can do it anymore so I'm honestly a little excited to think about maybe some smaller venues and shows and you know maybe we're able to have some more intimate solo acoustic kind of touring shows instead of because your overhead is six times what it is solo acoustic when you bring a band out and then let's talk

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_01] backline are you driving because I also have never been on a bus so I have a very different financial side of things because I'm not that's a big thing with your time the bus life is still a very hard life and it's gonna break down every day and you got your own you're you have a different set of problems no matter what level you're it's all it's just gonna be new and different but for being in the van you're we're driving to the show

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_01] all day so we get there right at sound check time we sound check I go put my weave in get ready for my set and then we usually have to pack up and drive a couple hours after the show to get a little bit towards where we have to get up and drive the rest of the way the next day and so just your time and energy and all that you have to start putting a monetary figure on that too and y'all let me know when

[00:34:41] [SPEAKER_01] you figure out how to do that because there's no way to not feel either ungrateful or like you're complaining or um just weak in my head to like be honest about like no I'm I'm not gonna be worth a damn for that 20 minute set because I haven't slept in three days and you know yada yada so I'm definitely in a spot and I think a lot of my friends are where we're trying to find a healthy relationship

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_01] with touring and the money part is one piece of that but obviously a giant one if if you're able to sit at home and if I'm able to make a Dolly Parton cover and get paid per view on it in my living room I'm not sure this travel that legit is aging us you know yes is always worth that without a strategy you know and so I'm grateful to have a team around me right now that is big on the word strategy and

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_01] when we get show opportunities it's not fly there fly right back um it's who can we see while we're in town is there a fan base there we could do something special for like really trying to make the most out of those trips because otherwise you're just running everywhere they will send you because you're so excited to get to but I think longevity is something important to me and maybe not to

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_01] everybody but I'm thinking long term and so that means I can't give you everything I got right now because the music industry will take it from you too they'll take as much as you'll give them

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_00] so there's a lot of rambling on that no that's and then it kind of goes back to what you said earlier where it's like you you were checking your Instagram stories to see where you were this time last year like it's I'm sure it's just a whirlwind uh whenever you're out on the road and trying to balance the balancing act of every part of being a an artist has to be a lot to handle yeah do you feel

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_01] like time's just like going by so fast or so slow it depends it's a lot of hurry up and wait um and especially like I don't have a whole lot of headlining experience yet so you are at the mercy of somebody else's entire world and I'm super respectful of that it it's important to me that they know how much I appreciate me and my whole team being there but um you'll be told to get there at two for a sound check and so like I said we got up at six this morning and drove eight hours to be here for

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_01] that two o'clock sound check oh actually headliners just getting started and you're not going to get one actually so then you get up there and you've been waiting on this moment for so long and you don't even know if you're gonna be able to hear yourself when you sing your first note and you know it's just that kind of stuff and um so you're you're playing these really big level shows and you don't have the infrastructure to support it yet um and so yeah it's a lot to figure out you

[00:37:30] [SPEAKER_01] know you're not prepped for it but the only way I've really seen to figure it out is to go get it wrong till you get it right and so done a lot of learning on stages and growing and hope to keep

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_03] doing that how else do you stay encouraged because I feel like you are one of the few artists that are just kind of like laying it all out there of like this is actually what it looks like and I feel like it is even harder as a woman considering all the the make you have to look presentable you have to have all that outfits and like all of that it sounds so trivial but like it can make someone's like brand or it can make someone even like an artist more because of what they're wearing or how they look

[00:38:09] [SPEAKER_03] yeah um so how do you stay encouraged through it all and you've been here 12 years and you said in a 10-year town but I don't see you going anywhere anytime soon no girl I don't know what else I'd do

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_01] yeah I I just feel most confident and self-assured and encouraged and optimistic when I am being myself and being honest with myself so that's where I think the realness comes from is if I'm putting on an act you can really hurt my feelings and get through to me but if I am genuine and being real then if you disagree with that or something kind of like we were talking about earlier I'm able to

[00:38:48] [SPEAKER_01] stand on it more um but I really struggle with feeling like I don't get to be honest or real and not be called like complaining or bitching so I'm still working through that a little bit do y'all have any like perspectives on the artist complaining or being real like when does it turn

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_00] to complaining I think sitting across from you today has been you've been very transparent is what I would is what I would call it and I think a lot of artists that we sit down with not a lot but like some artists will just kind of skim the top the surface level and I feel like you've let us actually see kind of some of the you know the the not so pretty parts of the industry and what it's like being an artist so I don't I mean I personally haven't haven't felt like you're no I just feel like you're telling us how it is and I think that's refreshing yeah especially because like again I

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_03] think fans don't actually see that side of it where you know sure you can talk to another artist and they'll completely understand what you're saying or and then sometimes they come sit to sit and talk with us and you know it's just like behind them now so they can just kind of skim over and like talk about what's now but like you are in the middle of it still yeah so it's like so it's going on in your life

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_01] it feels important for me to keep it encouraging and not be the jaded old lady that's been here like I have I mean we have babies coming to town now that are asking me to coffee and I'm trying to not be like get an attorney and trust no one yes but it's like so I want to keep them encouraged and like you truly the wildest thing you could imagine right now could happen tomorrow in this town believe it because and then it'll happen again the next day like I've seen it happen over and over truly

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_01] um but I think pretty much with anything in life if you are not acknowledging that it's going to be hard there's going to be challenges then you are lying to yourself and it's going to be a lot harder to get through those hard times when you're in denial that they're even happening so I just hope the world in general makes more space for everyone giving themselves grace um that's something I have like I said

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_01] I've you know called it self-proclaimed weakness to be like I don't think I can survive this event on top of everything else I'm doing and I had to learn that it's not like I have to be my best self to be good for anybody else and you got to get selfish with your time and energy eventually about that but so I'm really just still trying to navigate the best way to be honest and real um because if this was easy everybody would do it and we got people like you said that it's getting dropped in their laps on

[00:41:18] [SPEAKER_01] tiktok that's their story that's their journey and they find those hard things out probably a lot harder than I did because it's everyone's looking at you while you're figuring it out so mostly I'm really grateful to have gotten to have the the journey I've had and not have all the eyes on me or the pressure on me while I'm learning who I am and what I want and how I want to make people feel and how

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_00] what kind of career I want to build what's some of the best advice that you feel like you've gotten from maybe a country artist or a songwriter or someone who you look up to in Nashville that maybe even helped

[00:41:53] [SPEAKER_01] you whenever you first moved to Nashville well I had Jeannie Seeley and Ashley McBride kind of gave me the same version of advice which means I didn't take it the first time I got it but I had to get it twice um I struggle with that imposter syndrome is the best you know common phrase I know to use but again I've been in town a long time screaming my name from the rooftops making I hope I get better

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_01] every day but making the same kind of music I did when I got here singing about the same and so when those doors you have been bloody in your nose because you keep running into them trying to get them open when they open I think it's fair psychologically you're like what might I do now and so I think I struggle walking into rooms like okay I got invited here because I mean I've worked

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_01] in production and all kind of stuff so I've genuinely been the help clean the dressing room after the artist you know leaves and stuff so then I'm the I'm like oh I've got make sure this is cleaner than we got here somebody's got to pick it up and like so that kind of thought but Ashley McBride we were on an award show one time together um the AIMPs the independent music publishers and we shared a dressing room backstage which was crazy I was like this is Ashley my name is on there and with Ashley's

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_01] and we're both from Arkansas and she is you talk about honest and transparent and holds her integrity really close to her I respect that so much and she was like how do you feel about these award shows and I was like honestly Ashley I'm just tickled to be here I can't believe I'm even here and she really like got stern pretty quick and said you know the the happy to be here bit you're gonna have to give that up you you wouldn't be here if you didn't belong here and you're gonna have to start

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_01] acting like you belong here and obviously I'm a little scared of Ashley in the best way I want her on my team and not ever on the opposite side but I needed that I needed somebody to be like you know eventually if you want to play this game and you want to walk through these doors you don't get to keep acting like I don't know how I got here like you know how you got here you've worked really really hard for it and um it it isn't by chance or happenstance especially in my case you

[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_01] know nothing has fallen in my lap um so I carry that with me and and I actually have a ring my best friend and one of my co-writers Marty Dodson she got me this ring and it says the audacity because especially in the last year so so many big things started happening and I was like I don't have the the armor to put on to go stand you know in a room with Laney or Ella and be like yeah I belong

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_01] here what you mean and so I'm I'm working on trying to figure out how to give that to myself and give it to other artists and people in general who you know finally get where they're going and and hopefully we all are able to celebrate that and accept it somehow that's such great advice yeah and that was

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_00] the first time you'd ever was that the first time you'd met Ashley no I'd been around Ashley a couple

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_01] times um but I would say you'll hear stories about that from she oozes wisdom and songs like lyrics and stuff constantly but just wise and I think I think her journey made her that way I think wisdom is something that only comes with time yeah and so I think you kind of got to get your teeth kicked in a few times and you got to feel like you don't belong in certain situations and get get made to feel

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_01] really small and all of those to know to recognize nope I earned this I belong here my name's on that door because they put it on there and they invited me here to sing this and this opportunity is mine and there's no way to there's no way to miss something that's yours um and you're not going to make something that's not meant to be yours yours either and so yeah I mean I'm surrounded by

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_01] wise women um who have just made me feel less crazy and encouraged to keep going because um because the journeys are all different but a lot of it's the same and I wish the artist community specifically talked to each other a lot more because it's a very unique and isolating feeling you feel very alone and lonely and crazy and you've only got a couple voices in your head usually you're

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_01] listening to or on your team or whatever um and it's hard to to stay in touch with that gut and your self-trust and I think we all have to do that as artists so I'm grateful for those girls what's

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_03] funny is I was gonna mention like Ashley McBride before you even said her name I don't know if it's the Arkansas or just like the honest demeanor that like I feel like you guys both ooze or I'm like I kind of feel that energy from you as well and I'm sure it'll just grow as you know her years in the industry have um I kind of want to pivot the conversation to a bit lighter of things I know we earlier we mentioned uh you know the Mount Rushmore of 90s country songs so I want to do a couple Mount

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_03] Rushmore topics Quinn you can uh pick a few as well okay so I want to do first uh your Mount Rushmore of uh let's do 90s country artists we could not all not all artists 90s country artists give me a little yeah yeah tough tough tough question I know and that's four four you're not married to this

[00:47:23] [SPEAKER_00] answer you can just whatever comes to your head and I think one one issue and to maybe buy you a little time is sometimes people see Mount Rushmore of whatever and they think that that is the proclamation of the official objective Mount Rushmore and this can be like a personal yeah that's what that's what people get fired up about all the time it's like this is someone's personal opinion yes yeah their top four might be different than someone else's top four yes

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_01] that's helpful yes I think I'm about tired of trying to figure out what everyone's favorite is anyway so yeah I'm just shifting to what do I love and then there's no that's not right or wrong I love it that's right um Vince Gill is gonna go on there for me for sure um just music songwriting and integrity as an artist musicianship I mean just it's insane Vince I'm gonna go Patty

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_01] Loveless because you know Patty lived in the 80s some too but Patty kind of straddled those bluegrass and traditional kind of country worlds and she also was singing some outspoken stuff you know she cut a lot of Matrisa Berg and um so I really felt okay to have an attitude in my songs and music and she just also sang her heart out you could it's oozing out of her she's not just singing pretty

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_01] she's feeling it oh I think I have to put Dolly Parton on there um and it's insane you'd call her a 90s country artist but like you said I mean I would very much still call her relevant today and she's not even with us anymore and I think the plans she's made and everything that will continue to follow after her her body isn't here anymore is gonna shock us all but I'm gonna put Dolly Parton on there

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_01] and I'm gonna emphasize the business um because it's not an accident the way she did every interview and never alienated or isolated anybody and like just really led with love that's not just you wake up and decide to do that it takes a lot of strategy and business one more oh it's so hard

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_01] I'm gonna go Leanne Womack okay again spanned longer than the 90s still very relevant making great records now um but in the 90s that voice kind of felt like Leanne didn't have to have the the caricature or I mean she's stunning absolutely beautiful but it really felt like her voice uh and the songs she was singing were what was most important about her and her career and

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_01] that really inspired me to to let it be about the music and uh maybe if I was look naturally like Leanne a little more I'd be a little further along but yeah there we go that's a good one you have

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_03] another I haven't had plenty in my house you can go ahead if you have one well I mean this is some

[00:50:17] [SPEAKER_00] improv because I wasn't prepared necessarily but um how about since you've been in Nashville for over a decade maybe you're in Mount Rushmore of Nashville local places to go because I think that that's that's important for people maybe maybe they're listening to this and they're going to travel to Nashville at some point they want to know where you know where's Mae Estes hang out in Nashville

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_01] Mae Estes hangs out on her couch with no pants on when she is number one on the map and she's not working yeah I am a mammal at this point I moved to town when I was 21 and so I was drunk my first three years here and moved from a dry county so I went balls to the wall my first few years and now I'm old married and living my rock star life for work so the rest I'm like trying to chill but

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_01] we do have some favorite spots um Music Valley is one of my favorite places it's out by the Opry I swear that's not why I love it um but it's frozen in time so places like uh scoreboard the Nashville Palace and Music City Bar is a little it's becoming super popular all of a sudden but it used to be a little hole in the wall that kind of only the locals knew about but Music Valley there's parking

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_03] I've never heard it called Music Valley before so I call it the Bermuda Triangle but I think I just

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_01] made that up because I had my birthday at Music City last year yes that area is just a different feel it's a different kind of tourist that's going there um pretty much if you're not going to Broadway it's that kind of vibe but yeah there's dancing there's people that show up every weekend that live here that are super old school that are looking for somebody to step with it's just stepping back Nashville Palace is definitely awesome yeah yeah I love that place um I would say Jack Brown's burgers

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_01] is something I recommend to everybody fried Oreos y'all they have a competition for those and I swear I'm gonna take the champ very soon because I should never have one there I'm like you're giving me idea I think it's like 30 something that someone's eating so no one should do that but I feel confident for some reason Jack Brown's great burger um there's a couple locations in Nashville to hit up what else

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_01] uh very special spot little out of town called Jolton Hardware they're doing some live music there it's an actual functioning hardware store they sell burgers they've got a little coffee shop in the corner um and we shot my music video for the 90s called there but it feels like home to me I grew up singing in yeah wherever they could put a little stage in the corner was you know the big deal and so

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_01] playing in the middle of a hardware store and how often they have live music there yeah um that's a little treat if you're looking for something more local yeah and how convenient you know you want to

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_00] go see live music which you also need a light bulb like you can just truly two birds with one step nuts

[00:53:08] [SPEAKER_01] and bolts buddy we got you um I just like the character to places like that um and then man I gotta tell y'all this is a brand new one so this isn't like deep rooted in Nashville but I have an obsession there are a couple food trucks around here called resting burrito face okay have y'all heard

[00:53:28] [SPEAKER_00] of them I have I think I haven't been to one but I've I've heard I made fun of their name at first

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_01] I gotta say that out loud but I take it all back that good they are yeah breakfast burritos is all I've had I think they're dabbling in some dinner right now but I get the riso it's the chorizo breakfast burrito I make two meals out of it because it's so big um but you'll see me before my rights if I'm gonna try to be a good human that day I gotta go get my riso burrito but they got a couple locations in Nashville if if anyone's needing to handle that hangover after a night on Broadway

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_03] or something resting burrito face you're giving me plenty of ideas so I'm happy on that one there I mean I do have more ramp not much more she handled she handled two back to back very well very well but our time has wrapped up so I'm gonna ask about what I ask everyone at the end of the podcast is besides country music you know what are you obsessed with right now you guys just gave us some food options but whether it's what you're watching what you're reading what are you doing

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_01] right now besides music that is something I'm working on is trying to be something other than music it's truly been my whole life and when it is like it's your hobby I want to play music when I'm bored or whatever but I'm gonna go a little left center with the answer and say my nephew Lincoln is my latest obsession he is four years old and I don't know how I feel about having kids but it's not on

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_01] my to-do list currently and um so he has very much filled a whole part of my heart that I'm sure a kid would and I still get to send him home when I'm like you're tired and I don't know why you're crying and like time to go back to mom yes um but I have a trip coming up we're gonna go to Colorado and hike and camp and I'm gonna spend some time with him so I definitely through living my dreams and truly like I mean this is the wildest thing I've ever gotten to do so I'm so grateful for everything I

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_01] get to do with music but I find myself really looking forward to those times on the calendar where I've slotted in time with um my family and and soaking up you know specifically the little ones they're not little forever and they're so different from you know the few months in between I get to see them and so yeah that's what I'm I'm really filling my cup with outside of music lately is just spending time with people I genuinely love and turning my damn phone off while I do it yes I got

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_01] to leave it in the console of the truck or I'm acting just you don't even realize I have I would have it turned on and Instagram open before I even realize so I have to lock it up kind of yes but I understand that I am I'm really feeling myself like fill that tank when I spend that kind

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_00] of time and one more question who are you listening to right now whether it be country music or not

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_01] country music I am obsessed with Emily Ann Roberts I love Lacey K Booth I love S.J. McDonald I love Meg McCree um I feel like I'm definitely into the women right now but that's what's so cool is there's so many different perspectives and almost I don't know what a genre even is anymore but like I just feel like the women are really standing strong in whatever lane they've decided they have

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_01] and just I love anything that's unique so I love the Zach Tops I love the Jake Worthington's anything throwback um but I'm really loving and being encouraged by watching women decide I'm not who you want me to be

[00:57:00] [SPEAKER_03] this is who I am awesome well thank you so much for being here I can't wait for the new EP to fully be out people can catch you on the road opening up for the little big town among I'm sure many other other cities and spots so thank you for being here and yeah thanks so much thanks so much this was so fun