Ben Chapman: "Funky Tonk", Nashville & Songwriting

[00:00:08] He has taken after today. So it's like we have like tape on the window and shit. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it looks like it's all boarded up or something. Yeah, it's crazy. So your baby's name is Georgia? George. George Henry. Oh, okay. George Henry. How old is George Henry? Ten months. Ten months, okay. Is today the ninth? I think. Seven. Okay, seven. He's ten months on two days. Okay. And is that because you're from Georgia? Ten months, no.

[00:00:37] Meg and I, we were just talking and we were like, what should we name our son? You know, it was like, you know, kind of a big task. And we were going back and forth and somebody said George and we were like, yeah, you know, that'll be the day. And then it kind of stuck and we were like, well, fuck, like this is awesome. Yeah. I don't think we can come up with anything else. George Chapman sounds really good. You know, it's like we gave him the name. If he screws it up, it's on him. Yeah. It's like George Henry Chapman sounds like a present. That's right.

[00:01:07] A present. At least a congressman. Yeah. But God help anybody who wants to be in politics. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I hope he is like, you know, I keep saying I hope he's a plumber. Because it's like one thing AI can't take away. Fair. I mean, obviously, he's probably going to play music because everybody comes into the house, picks up a guitar and immediately starts playing. Mm-hmm. So he's like second nature to like, oh, everybody plays guitar, you know? Yeah. So I'm sure he'll be a musician. But if he's not, I hope he's a tradesman. Yes. That's fair. That's so bad.

[00:01:37] You know, it's like, don't do this creative shit, George. Don't do it, bud. A lot of people who do creative stuff say that, I feel like, just because they know the struggle. Yeah. It's really hard to be successful. It's such a blessing and a curse. Yeah. You know, it's like, it's the best thing ever, but it's also like, oh, man. And like you said, like even before AI's emergence, I feel as though there was kind of a push for trade to kind of pick back up. Totally, man. A lot of- And I feel like, you know, my mom's been an educator for like, I guess, 40 years and she retired two years ago.

[00:02:07] And just like seeing like the school systems and like, you know, the college world. It's so crazy how everybody's getting out of college with a great degree, but they can't get a job. And it's like, you know, the kid who went two years and is like, you know, wiring up a house makes more money than a fucking doctor. Yep. You know, it's like as much as you want to work, you can work. Yeah.

[00:02:32] So it's like, and my dad's a big tradesman, he didn't graduate high school, so he like does everything with his hands. And seeing him, you know, it's like, dang, you're doing better than some like doctors, dude. It's like, what are you like? He's like, as much work as you want, it's there. Yeah. You know, so. Well, we're rolling and we might as well, we can just stick to- Oh, snap. We can stick to talking- I love it when it happens like that. Yeah, same. Pro trade jobs with Ben Chapman here at the Whiskey Riff Raff podcast.

[00:03:02] I'm for it, man. Set in the tone. I like it. Ben Chapman dot gov. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me, y'all. Big fan. And we already touched on, you're from Georgia, but you've been in Nashville a long time. Yeah. And so I love to ask people who live here, been here, know Nashville. Like, what are your favorite spots, favorite things to do that are still up and running and still going strong?

[00:03:28] I would say for like a beer, honky tonk vibe, you got Bobby's. It's right down the street. I'm sure y'all both been there. I love Santa's on a Sunday. You got the Ice Cold Pickers. Kind of a new spot. Skinny Dennis. Sometimes that gets a little too yuppie for me, but I like it. It's cool. And it seems like a really cool crowds there on like Friday and Saturday nights.

[00:03:56] And then for food, Wendell Smith's is my favorite all-time spot. Oh, yeah. Okay. It's the best meeting three. It's right here and I haven't been. Oh, yeah. You got to go. Okay. Yeah. Good to know. Y'all should go. Yeah. Like breakfast, best breakfast in town, I think. And then they have the best fried chicken. I could go on and on about it. I could be a spokesperson for Traits and for Wendell Smith's. They're not paying you to say that. They are not. They are not. Maybe they'll give me a free meal out of it. But I like sweats, too. Sweats is a good one.

[00:04:28] But yeah, that's my favorite stuff in Nashville, you know. And then guitar shops, you know, of course. There's Carters and all that kind of stuff and growing. But that's kind of what I do. I eat and guitar shop and that's about it. Play some music. Yeah, and play some music. Well, you've got the time. And drink beer. Sounds like a good life. Yeah. How long have you been in Nashville now? Probably like seven and a half years. Okay. I mean, so you've seen it change drastically. Yeah, just in the time that I've been here. And I was coming up as a kid.

[00:04:58] I kind of knew music was what I always wanted to do and really didn't have a plan B. I tried college for a year and a half. I was like, yeah, this is plan D. So, you know, coming up at like 10 years old, it was like a ghost town. Like you'd go to Broadway and like do whatever you wanted to at 10 years old. Like they weren't stopping you getting in. Like you could do whatever. You could park on the street. Yeah.

[00:05:28] Like literally we would pull up. My grandparents would take me. And it'd always be on the summer because, you know, everybody was off. And we'd come up. We'd park right on the street, walk in, hear, you know, the coolest shit ever playing. And then get in the car, drive like half a mile down the road, pull over again. It was just like awesome. When I moved to town, it was already changed. I mean, it had that boom feel to it.

[00:05:52] And then, you know, year five, like right after COVID, I feel like everybody was coming in from California, coming in from Austin. And then it kind of did what Austin did, you know, had that huge boom. I was on Instagram the other night and my algorithm is so screwed up. But it was like the skyline changing in like 12 years. It is crazy. I saw that. Fucking crazy. And how much it's going to change more. I know. I need to quit saying the F word.

[00:06:21] My mom gets on to me for these, saying the F word. She's like, you have a son now? So y'all stop me if I say the F word. The only time people try to stop themselves was after they have kids too. I know. When they come in here. I know. I already said it. And I was like, damn it. Yeah. So sorry, mom. I'm only on one. Well, since your parents didn't do music and you knew it was destined for you, what was your introduction to country music?

[00:06:46] Well, country music was always playing, you know, in my house, you know, just kind of in the background. It was, I wasn't really like a big, like, I think a lot of people in the country were like, I was raised on gospel. And it's like, I went to church, but it was like, you know, our loving God. You know, it was like worship music, which, you know, I'm not really that big. I'm a fan of, I would rather hear, you know, Bill Monroe sing Amazing Grace and like get haunted, you know? Yeah. So, but I never grew up on that.

[00:07:15] So I was, you know, it was always Merle Haggard and Waylon, you know, I was huge outlaw country nut. But that's not really what started the bug for me. What started the bug for me is I was like in fifth or sixth grade and I always had like the classic rock vibe of like Allman Brothers, Leonard Skinner, that whole scene.

[00:07:38] And then like sixth grade ish, I found the Beatles and went like deep down the rabbit hole of, you know, like I have like the lunch boxes and like the wigs and the books and the weird shit. You know, I was a weird kid. And so that's what did it for me. You know, that's when I was like, I want to be in a band. I want to sing cool songs. I want to write like this. I want to play guitar like this.

[00:08:09] You know, that's what kind of like blew my mind. And ever since then, I just had the bug. And then like 15 or 16, you know, girls started coming into that equation. Like they're like not thinking the Beatles are cool, you know. But now I know, you know, cool people who, cool girls who think the Beatles are cool, you know. I wish I would have known them at, you know, 16. But everybody in my hometown was like Jason Aldean, you know. It's like, oh, shit. No offense, Jason Aldean.

[00:08:36] But, you know, I was like listening to like She Loves Me, you know. And then they were like wanting to get in and be like Dirt Road Anthem, you know. And it was like, there's a wide gap in the show. You know, yeah. But, you know, I did get down to that too. I was like, you know, this shit's pretty catchy. But 15 or 16, met a guy named Channing Wilson. And he's a songwriter from my hometown, Lafette, Georgia.

[00:09:02] And he showed me Guy Clark, Towns Van Zandt, John Prine, and, oh man, there was one other. Delbert McClinton in the same day. And I think my life was changed after that. I was like, I want to be a songwriter. Kind of this like cool 70s era of outlaw country music. Like Heartworm Highways, favorite documentary of all time.

[00:09:29] And that whole thing is what blew the lid off. You know, it was the classic rock upbringing and then finding that at the right time, I feel like, was what helped. And Channing was actually sitting right where you were not too long ago talking about how he met you and showed you all those artists. So this is kind of a full circle moment. Full circle. Just a month or two ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's been my mentor for a long time. And we'll definitely talk about him a little bit. But you mentioned the Beatles, Wallace Fresh.

[00:09:58] I want to ask, I feel like a lot of people will find the Beatles and find their early albums. Yeah. And then slowly mature and venture into the later albums. Is that how it was for you? Totally. You know, I was like... It's like an entry point. I love like Ed Sullivan's show and like kind of like that, you know, that poppier side of things. You know, it was like very clean and refined.

[00:10:23] And like 63 to 65 for the Beatles for me is very, you know, I don't want to say like girlish because that's like, you know, I'm not trying to be like that. But it's like, it's like very like, oh my God, the Beatles. And then like in 66, they started taking acid and the freaking lid blew off. They did. And 66 to 70 is some of the best music ever made from the Beatles.

[00:10:49] You know, it's like you go from paperback writer to helter skelter in two years. You're on some good shit. And it's crazy to look at their, you know, total catalog and see that they were only together for seven years. And they put out as much music as they did. And they had such a... It was so prolific. So prolific and such a range from when they started to the last album. Yeah. It's crazy. And I feel like no one does that these days.

[00:11:16] You know, I feel like, and not knocking any of these artists because they're all bigger than me and they all have more fans than me. And, you know, they always will. But I feel like in, you know, this town that we live in and work in, there's a lot of phone-in records, if that makes sense. You know, a lot of people make the same record over and over again, which, hey, if I'm making, you know, millions a year and people are expecting that of me. Why mix it up?

[00:11:45] How could you not fall into that trap? But, you know, I feel like there's a lot of artists in this town that, you know, don't have or don't feel like they have that creative freedom that the Beatles did. You know, or, you know, any of those kind of bands did from like the 60s and 70s. There was a lot of drugs involved and a lot of factors involved that don't play in today. But, you know, I would like to see a little bit more of diversity in kind of country music.

[00:12:14] Because I feel like we all have it in us to be, you know, cool as shit, you know, and very creative. But I feel like, you know, fans put artists in boxes sometimes. And so I'll get off on tangents. No, no, no, no. We love a tangent. Okay, good. But it is pretty standard. I'd say across the board, it's like an album a year is like what's expected from an artist.

[00:12:40] And then now country music has changed from, you know, the standard 10, 12 songs to now you either need a deluxe album or 30 songs or whatever. But however you can extend it. Yeah. And have all the features and like who's the biggest feature we can get. And it's like I totally get it. Yeah. I 100% get it. Because I want asses in seats just as much as the next person, you know. So I 100% get it. But, yeah, it does get a little, you know, the waters get a little diluted, you know.

[00:13:09] There's no freedom to just put it out when it's done or put out when you have a new idea. It's just like the standard is kind of set. Which, you know, going back, Channing Wilson, he's only put out one album thus far and is working on getting out a second one. He's the type of person that's like, you know, which his story is so cool. Totally. And I know that, you know, you being a part of his story too. I mean he's talked about I think whenever we sat down with him that he was mentoring you and then it's almost flipped a little bit is how he put it, I'm pretty sure. Oh, man.

[00:13:41] It's definitely not – you know, I still look up to him, you know, in so many ways. And he's still teaching me a lot. But I kind of had a moment of like just do it. Just release as many records as you can. And I feel like me and Channing are a lot alike in some ways. We're really in our head. And we, you know, we value what other people think almost to a fault.

[00:14:04] You know, criticism is hard to take as a creative, you know, because you want everybody to think you're amazing. And that's just not the case. That's just not possible, especially with social media. You know, everybody is like – even if they kind of like it, they're like, this sucks. You know what I mean? Just because that's what you – yeah, you have to say. It's either you love it or you hate it. That's the culture that we live in. And it's like I would either die for this person or I would kill them. Yeah.

[00:14:31] And they'll listen to it the day it comes out and then make their decision right then and there. And then it's over. Yeah. You know, and it's – so, you know, there's a lot of factors to it. But, yeah, I think I'm so glad to see Channing finally, you know, getting around to like, all right, he's going to start putting out a lot of music. Because he's got so many songs written that no one's ever heard. And they deserve a spot on the record. And you just put out an album. It's not your first or second or third.

[00:15:02] So what was the process in deciding to put this album out specifically? Yeah, Feet on Fire. I feel like it's the most risky record that I've released. It's definitely not country. I wouldn't – you know, there's some country songs. And with my redneck voice, there's really not any other way I can spin a song. You know, it's like there's going to be some country element to the song. And a lot of the songwriting is country, too. Someone described it as Funky Tonk. Would you be fine with that?

[00:15:31] I think I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's funny. I didn't see that. And I wrote down – I would describe your music as funky. So – Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like – like one of my favorite records of all time. It's a compilation record. And it's from like I think 69 or 70. But it's Country Funk, Volume 1 and Volume 2. Country Funk. And it is the coolest shit ever. It's like – it's just like funk bands and a country singer. And it's so cool. So that's kind of where I like to live in the studio.

[00:16:01] And kind of the process – so I knew I was making a record last year. January 3rd, Meg and I found out that Meg's pregnant. And, you know, our whole world gets turned upside down because we weren't expecting it. And it was super, you know, not planned. But we decided to go through with it, of course. And it's been the biggest blessing ever.

[00:16:28] But there was a lot of decisions made for that record around, you know, the whole experience of that. So I kind of call it my life record. And it's just – you know, there's some songs in there about George, about the anticipation of the whole thing. And there's like some songs that were written before I knew.

[00:16:53] And you can kind of tell which songs are in that batch and then which songs are like super like, you know, oh, shit, this is moment in time song. Like Everything's Different and Baby Blue. Those kind of songs are very much so, you know, moment in time songs. And then the rest of the record is kind of what I was starting on, you know.

[00:17:18] So I kind of – everybody's asked of like – I try to put it into like two parts, you know, before I knew and then after I knew. And then Anderson did a good job of blending the two. And with Everything's Different, is it true that you had started on it prior and then it's like it just fit perfectly into where your life ended up? It was so weird. I'm sure that was kind of – I've never written a song like that. You know, I hear those prophecy songs almost.

[00:17:48] And I was like, man, I want to write a song like that, you know, but you just – you can never call it. And yeah, we wrote that song and I was like, I like this song. You know, it's not necessarily me to a T right now. And then six months went by and it was like, holy shit. Yeah. This is me. Me to a T. Me. Oh, my God. I was speaking to my, you know, later self. Almost predicted. Yes. It was crazy. Yeah. Really, really trippy.

[00:18:15] Maybe you could write one like, I just won the lottery and maybe see what happens later in the next year or something. Word for a third. It's coming. Lottery song. And what has the reaction been to this album? Because on our side, I feel like it's been very positive and just kind of blown up. Yeah. I mean, it like slow go on like the streaming stuff and all that stuff. I've always been kind of a slow burn artist as far as any of that stuff.

[00:18:43] I love the imaging and the art that comes with it too. Yeah. Yeah. Like we try to do like a lot of Easter eggs on it. Like every little thing on the record cover is a song. So we try to be, you know, really strategic about, you know, the artwork and tying it all in together and make it really cohesive. It's not necessarily like a concept record, but it kind of is with all the artwork and whatnot. But it's been the best release I've ever had so far.

[00:19:12] So, you know, we're just taking the small wins. It's like this year has been such a whirlwind with, you know, having a baby. And we got married this year or I guess last year. Sorry. We're already like seven months into 2026. It all blends together once you have kids. Freaking crazy. But, yeah, it's, you know, when I first put out a record, I was like, I want this to blow up.

[00:19:40] I want to, you know, have a thousand people at my shows. I want to, you know, this, this, this, this, this. And you slowly learn, you know, there's a couple of artists that get super lucky like that. But most of the time it doesn't happen like that. And I'm just trying to take the, the, the low wins and, you know, just be happy with where we're at. Because it's by far the best so far.

[00:20:09] We've been the busiest this year out of any year in the past. So, I'm happy with that. And there aren't a lot of, let's say, current, you know, country artist couples. Yeah. How do you guys balance it all and find time for both of you guys to be creative? Especially now with a baby. It's a lot. Yeah. I think we've done a really good job thanks to our publisher. Over the new publisher, Steve Marklin over at Blue Harbor.

[00:20:39] And Kendall and Miller are part of the crew. Shout out to them. But since we have the same publishing deal, I write one day and then Meg will write the next day. And then whoever's not writing will keep George. So, it's super awesome, super hard. You know, we can't afford, you know, daycare and all that shit. In Nashville, it's nuts. We might as well, one of us just quit and keep George. Because that's how much it costs. So, I feel like thanks to them, it's been really great.

[00:21:09] And then I've been on the road a lot this year. So, Meg hasn't really toured that much. But she's finishing up her second record. And once that gets done, she's going to hit the road and I'll stay home. Okay. So, it's just, we're just kind of flip-flopping. Yeah. Learning as we go. Giving a lot of grace. A lot of love. Yeah. A lot of I love you's, I'm sorry's, and I will be better. So, it's just, you know, just trying to learn it as you go. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:34] I guess, I mean, at one point you could entertain, like, trying to travel as a family unit. But right now that would be so hard, I'm sure. Yes. Yes. There's been so many people at shows, be like, did you bring George to this show? And I want to look at them and be like, if I leave, if we pull out of the driveway, it is so much work just to get out of the driveway with George. And it's like, I love taking him on trips and stuff, but it is, I could not imagine taking

[00:22:04] him on the road as we have it now. Yeah. In a van and a trailer and, you know, we're showing up, busting ass, playing the show, selling merch, loading up with no TM. You know, it's just, it would be insane. But, you know, Lord willing, we're on a bus one day and it would be, I would love nothing more than to have a little family road show for sure. That would be cool. And some of your dates coming up are opening up for Paul Cawthon, is that correct? Yes. Okay. Have you met Paul before? Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah.

[00:22:34] We're big buddies. We also had him in here recently. Yeah. Yeah. I was watching that one. I was like, this is a good one. You never know what Paul's going to say. So, it's like everybody's on the edge of their seat. Oh, yeah. But he had a baby boy. I think it's calmed him down a little bit. You know, it kind of just levels everybody and it's a super cool experience. But we've kind of bonded over that. So, we're excited to go out together. It's going to be fun. And who are some other big names that you've opened for? Is it like Brent Cobb? Yeah, yeah.

[00:23:03] Me and Brent, we're big buddies. We go out on the road quite a bit and ride a good bit in town. Our first tour ever was Lainey Wilson. Okay. That was fun. She's a sweetheart and her band took care of us. And, you know, we were the young band, you know, and didn't know what the F we were doing. So, they kind of took us under their wing and showed us the do's and don'ts. So, that was fun. And I feel like we've been out with everybody.

[00:23:33] Marcus King? Yeah, yeah. I feel like you and Marcus would probably say that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, you guys go together really well. Yeah, and him and Meg, they have a really great writing relationship. So, Meg, I think, on his last record, he cut one of ours that we wrote with the late, great Ronnie Bowman. And then Meg, I think she had two or three on that record. So, they have a really good working relationship that's really cool to see. And who else have we been out with? I don't know.

[00:24:03] There's a list of them. And then we're finally getting into, like, festival season, you know. And, like, we're actually, you know, to that level of, like, getting cooler festivals and, like, that kind of thing. So, it's just exciting, man. Because, like I said, we're just taking it, you know. Just stay humble, keep working, keep your nose down, and rock and roll. I want to ask about the writing process just because I feel like that is such a big part of both you and Meg's career. And writing all your music.

[00:24:33] What is that process like? Do you go, I mean, you say you go in every other day. Is it kind of like, I have ideas, we're just going to figure it out today? Or is it kind of like, as inspiration comes? Yeah. I mean, it changes every day. Okay. It depends on kind of if we're writing for another artist or if we're writing for our projects. Like, if we're writing for our projects, you know, Meg and I like to get up, start a thing of coffee, you know, talk about what's going on. And normally an idea will just come out of thin air.

[00:25:02] Or, you know, I'm missing this for my project and we need to write this or this vibe or this feel. So I think it's a lot easier writing for other people's projects just because you can go in, turn into a chameleon and nail it, you know, make them love it, make them think it's the best song ever. You know, get out, go home, your day's done.

[00:25:24] But I think, you know, when we're writing for our stuff, it's a little more personal. Of course it is just because it's for you. But sometimes it's a little more tricky, you know, just because we're really honest with ourselves and we're like, that sucks. And, you know, she might not think it sucks or I might not think it sucks. But, you know, she normally knows best and, you know, vice versa when we're writing for each other's projects.

[00:25:52] So it's different every day to answer your initial question. It's, you know, it's sometimes starts out with a guitar melody. Sometimes it starts out with a lick or sometimes it starts out with just, hey, I wrote this idea down. I wrote this sentence down. I wrote this word down. So I think that's my favorite part about songwriting. There's just a million ways to do it. And it always turns out different. Well, it's interesting what you said about writing for someone else.

[00:26:18] Does it feel more or less like a job when you're writing for someone else? Because I would imagine writing for yourself or your wife, it might just feel creative. But then if you're actually in a room and someone brought you there, that might feel more like you're clocking in and clocking out. Totally. I feel like it's like when we go in and write for somebody, I'm like, oh, this is what, you know, we have a publishing deal for. You know, this is kind of what they're paying us for to do. And, you know, it makes you kind of feel like you're doing a little bit of manual labor for a minute. It's like, oh, I feel good about myself.

[00:26:48] Got up and wrote a song with this guy. Hopefully he'll cut it, you know. And it's like you kind of take yourself out of it, which is cool. It's kind of like an outer body experience because you're just in there, you know. And you get to hear everybody else's stories, you know. I think that's the coolest thing about, you know, co-writing is you know somebody so well in like 30 minutes. Because you're like, you went down to the nitty gritty in like 30 minutes. You know, normally when you meet somebody at a bar, you're like, hey, what's going on, man? You know, it's like, where are you from? You know, it's super small talk.

[00:27:17] But in songwriting, it's like, man, I had this really traumatic shit when I was a child. And it's like they go in, you know, and it's like I know you. Yeah. You know, it's like we could go have dinner right now and it wouldn't be awkward at all. Oh, that's funny too because it's almost like it brings the guard down. Oh, totally. It's like, oh, anything goes whenever you're writing together. And I feel like that, you know, the best songs come out of those kind of rights.

[00:27:41] When you go in and, you know, you have the, I mean, it is kind of the balls to let your guard down. It's like, you know, boy or girl. It's like if you let your guard down, you're just inviting that presence to come in and take hold. And, you know, I think all songs come from another world because it's like, I mean, unless it's like Beer Truck, you know.

[00:28:09] But like, you know, like and sometimes I feel like you have to chisel a song out. I feel like it's like laying concrete. It's like that's how Bob Dylan wrote all his songs, you know. He labored over his songs. And sometimes you don't even know what the hell he's talking about. But it's like, damn, this is awesome. Yeah. And like I mentioned, we've seen, you know, nothing but positive stuff. But as the Internet goes, I'm sure you get some negative comments occasionally. Oh, hell yes.

[00:28:38] How does it, how do you handle it knowing like you open yourself up and write something very vulnerable and personal and then someone disrespects it in any level? I mean, you know, being the emotional creative side, it does hurt your feelings. And I think anybody's line who's like, I don't take it to heart. It's like bullshit. It's like somebody's like, your voice sucks. You immediately go home and be like, hmm. You're like, oh, shit, does it suck?

[00:29:08] And but normally what helps me is you go to that person's profile and look at their profile picture. And it's a dead giveaway. It's like this person hates their life. Like they're an idiot. You know, it's like you got more shit going on than they do. I get it. You know, it's like I get it. John from, you know, Ohio or whatever. It's like, I get it, man. You had a bad day and you took it out on me. That's cool. Whatever. It's like the profile picture.

[00:29:37] Have you seen the meme where it's like, well, a smile might be nice. And the guy replies is like nothing to smile about in my life. Yeah, exactly. It's like a ball humbug. Shit, dude. But we've been doing porch videos. And it's like the only thing that's ever taken off for me on social media because I'm an old man when it comes to social media. Like I have a Yahoo email address. So do I. It's crazy. How do you? Come on, my people. Three for three. Everybody's like.

[00:30:07] I never knew that a decision I made whenever I was 10 years old would follow me the rest of my life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's fine. Get made fun of it for now. I'm damn near 30 years old. Everybody's like, Yahoo email, boy. So I suck at it so bad. And I'm not one to get on the phone and be like, listen to my new mix. What do you guys think about it? I just feel so. Some people crush it. And some people are super genuine about it. Some people absolutely crush it. Like Colby Acuff. I know he's y'all's boy.

[00:30:37] He's my boy, too. He crushes that shit. And it seems so authentic and genuine. When I do it, I look like an idiot. So we finally got something that works with the porch jam, whatever you want to call it. And my band just gets up on the porch. We do cover songs. And they're so fun. And they've been taken off. And people have actually been coming to shows because of it and stuff. But those comments are ruthless. Really? Oh, man.

[00:31:05] It's like voice is thin. You know, or like guitar sounds like shit. And it's like we're on our back porch with one mic. What do you expect? It's like everything sounds thin, Janae. It's like, so those comments always crack me up. But yeah. Yeah. Well, I think the appeal of like a porch session is just like no one really does that anymore. Or at least you don't think they do. Yeah. Obviously, they still happen.

[00:31:35] But no one's usually recording them. So I feel like it's just it's kind of nostalgic in a sense. And that's probably why. Yeah. Kind of thing that make you stop while you're scrolling. Yeah. Yeah. And like when we first started it, I feel like no one was doing it. And now it's kind of trippy to see like more people doing it. And it's like, did we start that trend? And I don't think we did because I think there was people doing it before we did. But it is cool to see like more people, you know, gravitating towards it.

[00:32:02] Because it's just a cool organic way to promote music, you know, in this new age of promotion. And it's just so self-loathing. And it's like, you just feel weird. We've talked to artists a lot about that weight that is kind of thrown onto a music career now where it's like you have to be pushing stuff through social media. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. I would also love to hear what you would think. Like take an artist from the 60s or 70s. I know you're a huge fan of that era of music.

[00:32:31] Like is there anybody in the 60s or 70s country music or really any music that you feel like would have done well at what social media requires in the modern age? Yes. I know that's a weird question. No, no. I love that question because I feel like, you know, there was a thing in the 60s, you know, with, you know, and everybody, you say 60s Nashville country and everybody immediately goes to Willie and Waylon and all those guys.

[00:32:59] But it's like no one knows that Waylon Jennings did like five records with Chet Atkins or six records. He was a Nashville sound. Like he was a spoke in the Nashville wheel, you know, he was a, you know, bro country of the time. As crazy as that sounds. Porter Wagner was the same way. You know, he was not that cool compared to, I mean, he's great, you know, now that we're looking back on it.

[00:33:28] But like Waylon was like, what a bitch. You know what I mean? And I feel like those guys would have done good at it, you know, because I feel like they would have done anything that the label told them to do. They were just dogs for the label. But if you told Merle Haggard to do it, I don't think he would necessarily do that. And I don't think, you know, Willie Nelson would do it. I don't think that he would be that great at it.

[00:33:57] You know, I just don't think that they cared about it. You know, obviously they didn't have to care about it. But I think. They had the benefit of being in a different era. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I just don't. It's you see those memes all the time. It's like Johnny Paycheck blown out of his mind. And it's like, tell this guy to post a TikTok. Yeah. You know, he's like. Yes. He's just wired. So I don't know if those guys would have done it necessarily. You know, I think they've been like the Sturgils of today.

[00:34:26] You know, it's like Sturgill has somebody running his page and he posts one post and everybody freaks out. Like, what's coming? Sturgill's taking a poop. You know, and it's like, that's cool as shit. That's how mysterious I would love to be. You know, it's like, you know, Ben woke up and had two eggs today. You know, we're about to tell you about it. Yeah. And it's like, I don't think John Lennon would have been great at that.

[00:34:52] I don't, you know, I don't think any of those rock and roll stars. I really just think because they would view it as it's taking away from what I'm trying to do, which is make music that I care about. Yes. And those, I think the reason we had such stardom and the celebrity craze in the 60s and 70s and, you know, the late 50s is because you didn't know anything about the artist. Other than what the newspaper told you or what, you know. Yeah.

[00:35:21] Going to see a concert and seeing Elvis, you know, air fuck. Yeah. And it's like, oh my God. Elvis is the first person who comes to mind where it's like, I'm like, we know enough. We know too much still. Yes. Like, I wish we knew less because the more you know, you're just like. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's like Chuck Berry. It's like, oh, quick scrape. Yeah. Even like, I don't even want to know the details of Conway Twitty's life because like his music. Yeah. Horny. Yeah. Horned up. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:48] Anybody that we love, like from the 50s and 60s would have been canceled. Okay. 100%. Probably so. Like, politics aside. Yes. Like, just like sexual assault. Yes. Like, canceled. Yes. Like, Chuck Berry was putting cameras in his like bathrooms and shit. Right. Like, but one of the greatest rock legends of all time. And you can't take it away from him. And it's like, you know, they were all sick. Jerry Lee Lewis. Yeah. Wacko. Jimmy Page. Wacko.

[00:36:18] You know, the list is forever. Yeah. So, I don't think they could have done anything in today's world. Much less social media. Yeah. But I don't think they could even, you know, been themselves. And what's crazy is that like we are growing into it where it's like if you start, you started music before social media was like a requirement. Yes. And so now you're having to do it. But it's, I wonder like as it's become now the bare minimum to like do it.

[00:36:44] How many people will miss out on because they don't want to do that portion of it. Yeah. Oh, I never thought about that. Or how they'll rise regardless of doing it. Yeah. So. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good take because I've never thought about, you know, the other side of that. Of somebody being so insecure about how they look or, you know, how they sound on an iPhone camera. The quality of it. And it's like, but it could be the next Michael Jackson, you know, that we'd never know about. Yeah.

[00:37:12] It is strange, strange times kind of that we're kind of getting into. Well, it's really weird to see, you know, people getting record deals from strictly TikTok numbers, like no, no music idol on any platform. I know y'all have heard it. You know, I know it's, I know it's beating, you know, a broken record, but it's, it's really wild. Yeah. These are trying times. Like this has never been seen before. And there's some people where it's like, I get why.

[00:37:41] Like I get why the voice is just that good. I think of Cassius Culpepper. Yeah. He's someone who like, I don't think he had much music out before he even got signed, but like the talent was just so clearly there. You hear his voice and it's like, oh, this is amazing. Yeah. But that's not always the case. No, it's not always the case. I'd love to see the percentage of where it is the case and when it's not. Because I think it would probably be more so it's like people see the follower count and they take a shot on somebody and they don't know what they're doing. Totally. Yeah.

[00:38:11] Well, and then you have the whole thing of, you know, everybody knows it's not good music and we're all just lying to ourselves and we're like, this is good. But it's the cool, it's the end thing to like it. And we have, and I'm not going to say any example, but we all know like five of those that are like, what, what is this? Yeah. Like this is stupid, you know, but everybody's liking it. So I have to be, you know, I have to wear Hollister.

[00:38:40] I have to go shop at Abercrombie & Fitch if I want a girlfriend in sixth grade. Yes. That's what it is. Yeah. You know. Man, you're hitting, you're checking a lot of boxes for me. I mean, I had Hollister shirts. I have a Yahoo email. So I'm just going to sit back and see. And your mom going and being like, I can't hear, son. I can't see. I can't see. What size? Yep. Them going up to like the little, little like high schoolers that work. They're like, can you turn the music down? It's like, mom, please, mom.

[00:39:06] Well, to turn it back to like more of the positive of what's going on in the industry. We have so much good going on in this industry and the world. Well, who are you listening to that is new, still coming out with music that you really love? Maybe you don't write with them per se, but you just are a fan of what they're doing. Country music or not? No, no, no. I mean, obviously Sturgill. Like any of the Johnny Blue Sky stuff is just so great and so different. So risk taking. Like I just love that about him.

[00:39:36] I don't know him from shit. So there's a lot of kind of in the East Nashville honky tonk world that's coming out really like the Deslons. I don't know if that's how you pronounce it. I don't know either, but yeah. God, they're so good. I mean, so good. Like my favorite. They released a record on the same day Feet on Fire came out. And I thought it blew my record through like to the next town over. Like they are so good.

[00:40:04] So if you're listening to this, let's go on a tour together. But yeah, that's all I've been listening to is that record. And then they put Mutiny at Midnight on streaming. So we've been listening to that in the van a lot. But we keep it old school a lot. So we don't really listen to a lot of new stuff. But Brent's new songwriting record is great. Channing's new record is great.

[00:40:33] I've heard it a couple times. It's going to be badass. Meg's new stuff is absolutely awesome. I can't wait for everybody to hear it. She's almost done with a 10-song record. So, yeah. There's a lot of cool stuff coming out right now. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned old school. Are there any old artists that you have recently found that you've really dove into? Because I love accidentally stumbling upon an old artist that I haven't heard much of. Oh, yeah. Or maybe heard one or two.

[00:41:03] And then you get to really dive into basically an entire lifetime of music. It's so awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Goose Creek Symphony. Okay. They're awesome. Okay. I haven't listened. And then Willis Allen Ramsey, a Texas songwriting guy, was respected by everybody. He's still kicking too. That's the song that me and Hayes did together, Satin Sheets.

[00:41:32] But he's kind of big in that world. And then who else? There was somebody else that I was just listening to. Shit. I don't know. But My Morning Jacket's another newish band that I really love. Okay. I like them. Yeah. Jim James is freaking awesome. Okay. If my memory, I might be wrong about this. My memory hopefully served me correctly. Did you come out during the Clay Street Unit show this year? Oh, my God. Yes. Yes. I was like, that's a lot.

[00:42:02] Clay Street, Sin and Squalor, great record. Yeah. I was listening to that on the way over here. I love them. But yeah, I was just, I was like, I think that's the last time I saw you live. Yeah. Besides like Peach Jams is pretty much where I have actually seen you perform live. That show was rad too. Oh, it was so much fun. Yeah. They're so good. Yeah. His voice is just so awesome. All those guys are so sweet. And then, yeah, we've only wrote one song together. But they've played it in every one of their live shows since. So they were just such cool guys.

[00:42:30] And every time they play it, they're like, wrote This Was Ben Chapman. And they play it. Oh, cool. Always. It's like most bands don't do that. Yeah. So it's just like, it's really cool to see like humble dudes just be cool and great. And you're definitely more of like a jam band vibe without being like full jam band. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We try to have songs that jam. Yeah. You know, it's like we're not going to be like, Grandma's playing ping pong.

[00:42:59] And it's like, you know, just like, you know, we're not that kind of like fish and goose and all that stuff. But, I mean, we love the dead, you know. And I feel like they're the greatest American band of all time. And it's so crazy. I'm a big, I don't know if I'm a deadhead. Maybe I am. I'll go ahead and say I am. I've listened to plenty of Grateful Dead. And it's crazy to look at, you know, how big of a cultural impact they've had and how few

[00:43:28] songs they've actually had chart. Yeah. Which is like just speaks to the music. I mean, only like two or three, right? I mean, I think Touch of Grey might have been the only one that I think. And like they're not country and yet we talk about them and like probably a good percentage of podcasts we do. I would say they're, you know, one of the best country bands of all time. Especially when Jerry was, you know, with New Riders and the Purple Sage and doing his whole pedal still thing.

[00:43:56] And before he got deep off into the heroin world, they, I mean, they were doing fucking El Paso, Mama Tried. They were doing like all kinds of country numbers. And then that stuff is just country. Like that's what Americana, you know, what is this thing we all call Americana? I feel like it's so hit or miss on like what's considered Americana, but it's American music.

[00:44:23] You know, I was talking to Dave Cobb one day and I was like, I don't know what to call my music. And he was like, I think it's American music. He's like, just call it American music. That's what it is. He's like, it's not country. It's not rock. It's not. But it is. It's all those things, you know, and it's just American music. It's just the big melting pot of blues, rock, country, singer, songwriter, funk and jam. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:51] And whenever you call the Grateful Dead the greatest country band of all time, have you ever said that? And people will be like, what are you talking about? I feel like that's a really good... No, normally people are like, you know, that's kind of right. It's a good conversation starter. And dude, they just toured longer than any band ever. It's like they've been going since 66 and now that Bob's dead, I'm sure they'll, you know, they might have a reunion thing with Mayor and all that kind of stuff, but I don't see it happening, but I mean, they had a 50 year run.

[00:45:21] Yeah. That's unheard of. It's kind of like, and we can get back to talking country here in just a second, but Well, we're all talking country now. I guess we are, yeah. It's interesting to me because you see, I'm a big Jimmy Buffett fan too. Oh, me too. And now the Coral Reefer band still touring, you know, after Jimmy's past because people still love that music. It's the same way with The Dead. There's so many people that have connected to it. I find it hard that it's just going to go away and like, it's going to be hard to not have either Bob or Jerry up on the stage.

[00:45:50] Obviously they've done it for quite some time without Jerry, but now without Bob, it's like, I'm sure there is kind of a, they feel lost and it's like, you know, John can, John's great. John Mayer's awesome. But like, do you bring somebody else in? Sturgill's played with them before. Do you put John and Sturgill together? I would pay to see John and Sturgill do, you know, a thing and then have Mickey on drums. Yeah. As long as they have one, you know, original guy, I feel like it's still cool. Yeah.

[00:46:17] You know, we do some shows with Marshall Tucker band and they're the sweetest people on earth, but Doug, Doug Gray's the only original member. You know, and to have the career that he's, that he's had, I mean, he's like probably in his late seventies. I mean, he was friends with Dwayne Allman. That's crazy. You know? And like, he's, you know, I, like I hugged, I hugged his neck last Saturday, you know,

[00:46:45] and it's like to, to touch him, you know, and to talk to him and look into his eyes and know that he looked into Dwayne Allman's eyes and Jerry Garcia. And it's, it's weird. It's weird that we're, it's a blessing that we're still living in the same time period as who, who these guys were talking about. Yeah. Because it's like one, like 30 years from now, this is all going to be gone. And like heroes are going to be like Tim McGraw, like I love him, but like, not as cool as the Grateful Dead, not near as damn cool. Yeah.

[00:47:15] You know, it's like cool, great music, not the dead. You know what I mean? So it's like, I think it's such a cool thing that we have to see where we're at in history. Um, and I always try to get that across to people because, um, you know, I get down on my, you know, on the, on the world and, and, you know, the state of music and, you know, it all sucks and blah, blah, blah. And it really doesn't. It's like, we're still in a golden era of really cool shit being made, you know, just

[00:47:45] different. And I don't know in 20 years if that's going to be true. Yeah. I hope so. And still talking and about cool music and, but I don't know. It's trying times, weird times. Yeah. Well, still talking jam bands. You have Peach Jam, which has elevated from, I think it started at the OG basement, right? Yeah. And now it's at Basement East. Yeah. How did that come to be? I love the tradition of it still going.

[00:48:15] Is that the plan for the foreseeable future? It's got to be cool to bring Georgia to Nashville. Oh, dude. It's, it's, it's so cool. Yeah. It's, so it started out at the basement. I think the year after COVID happened, I think we were all just stir crazy and wanted to, you know, do something. The guy I was working with at the time, his name's Jay Gear. He's done some productions.

[00:48:39] He produced my first record, produced Flatlands, Countryland record and all the Haley Witter stuff and all that good stuff. But he was like, you should just do a, he's from Iowa. So he's like, you should just do a, you know, a jam band thing, you know, and do it. And I'm like, okay. Like that, I mean, I'm in. He's like, you should, you should, you know, get your friends up. Cause I was writing with a lot of people at the time.

[00:49:06] And, um, so I think the first one we had, it was, um, I think Steven Wilson Jr. was at it and Drake White and Ray Thier. Um, and there was one more. I think Chris Canterbury did it. And, um, it went off. It was great. You know, there's about 50 people there. So I, at the time I was like, 50 people. Yeah. This is awesome. OG basement can't hold much more than that.

[00:49:34] And I was like, this is awesome, you know? Yeah. And then from then on, um, we took about four months off the rest of that year. And then the next year we did it every month. That nearly killed us. Cause we were learning like 10 new songs a month. And it was just, it made the band super tight and it made me a better player. Um, so I'm thankful for it, but it was just a lot, um, with us being on the road and, and, you know, recording and all that stuff in the, in, you know, in the holes.

[00:50:02] Um, so after that year we kept it at the basement. Um, it started to like sell every show. Um, and then I think two years ago we moved it to the beast. Um, and it's, you know, it's average, you know, 400, 450 in there. And it was just a party. Um, so it's like, that's how we want to keep it. You know, it's like the way I describe it is it's super humble, no attitude.

[00:50:30] Um, I feel like a lot of, I feel like everybody shits on Nashville from being like, Oh, I don't like to play in Nashville. I mean, whatever. But I think people just see a lot of people doing this at a show. There's none of that there. And it's like, it's, it's just cool, man. It's just music lovers. Um, they don't really care if we mess up. They don't really, you know, we're, we're doing all these songs for the first time ever, you know, with a guest.

[00:50:57] Um, so sometimes we mess up and sometimes it goes off great. Um, but it's just a big family vibe and, um, it's grown into something, you know, it's, it's about the community. Um, and I think Nashville has such a great community. I still think the best songs are written in Nashville. I think the best musicians live in Nashville. I think some of the nicest people in the world live in Nashville and that's who comes to Peach Jam. I feel like, um, there's no assholes.

[00:51:26] Nashville does just get like a bad rap. I mean, ever since, I mean, it's been going on for a long time, but like the local spots have changed. And I feel like Peach Jam is kind of one of those things that have been pretty consistent of like pretty much only like the locals really know about it. But like, that's something I would recommend if someone's visiting, like go check it out because it is like, it's locals. And, and it just like shows you like what it could be, you know? And I don't get me wrong. I've been to a lot of Nashville shows where I'm like, this sucks, you know, and everybody's,

[00:51:54] you know, just a downer and it's, or everybody's talking over the band like that shit, you know, it's like, that is crazy. It's like, I couldn't imagine paying a ticket to go talk over somebody. That happened. I saw Charlie Crockett at the Nashville palace and people would not stop talking. It's like, what are you doing here? What is going on? Go talk somewhere else. The worst is like at like, um, like industry hangouts, like the BMI rooftop thing. It's like, I mean, I love everybody over BMI, but it's like, everybody comes there is

[00:52:24] young songwriters and they just talk over the band that's playing. And it's like, this is not how you get it right. Like this is crazy. It's the industry people who are the worst. Like there's so many times I go to shows with people and they love to stand in the back and I'm like, I want to be in it. Like I want to feel the sub hit me and like words hit me in the face. And not put my earphones out as much as I should to save my ears. I'm just like, I don't want to. It's okay if I lose a little hearing at this show.

[00:52:52] I literally like, there's like a risk reward on those shows. I'm like this one, I'm not putting them in. There's no way. Yeah. I would imagine when you leave Peach Jam, your phone pops up and it's like, your headphones recommend that you turn down your phone. Yeah. I get that message all the time. And I'm like, oh no, I'm going to have like tinnitus when I'm like 40. Yeah. It happens. But yeah, Peach Jam is, it's a staple and I hope it stays around. We're going to try our best to keep it going for sure. Awesome.

[00:53:22] And what are some other things that you're passionate about? Obviously Peach Jam, we've talked a lot about music and songwriting and things like that. You're a father. I'm sure that's a new passion that you've got. Totally. Obviously. Totally. But what else is Ben Chapman doing maybe outside of music if he has time? I was just thinking about this today because I thought that this question might get brought up and I have no other hobbies. I'm really bad. Everybody's like hunting and fishing and all this other stuff.

[00:53:50] And it's like, I'd love to go fishing, but I just never do it. And I always find myself picking up a guitar if I have free time. And I love to practice. I love learning new things. And I love, to me, that is a hobby. And for me to get to do my hobby every day is a blessing. So, you know, it is a job sometimes, but I really don't have any other hobbies.

[00:54:19] I like being a good dad or trying to be a good dad. But I love music so much and I love listening to music and playing it and, you know, coming up with weird shit that I'll probably never use and wasting time. I feel like wasting time is where you get the coolest shit sometimes. So, but yeah, I need to find a hobby. I want to go fly fishing. Yeah.

[00:54:47] I want Colby to take me fly fishing because he's like, you know, I feel like, and to say all that, you know, I think there's a lot of artists, Leon and Colby and all those like fly fishermen, they write some of their best stuff there. You know, so I'm not saying that doing that takes you out of, you know, what we're doing. But I need a hobby.

[00:55:15] Well, I think I heard one time that like boredom is a gift because it's the type of thing like shower thoughts where you're just, you're just doing something mundane. And then something like you mentioned earlier, things come out of the cosmos. It seems like, but you have to allow your brain to not be stimulated by something to sometimes hear those things. Yeah. And that's when a train hits you, just hits you and wraps around your brain. And it's still the best feeling in the world. You know, it's like cold chills up your back.

[00:55:44] And there's not a lot that gives me that feeling, you know, there's, you know, three or four things that give me that feeling. You could probably guess two or three. Yeah. But, but music is one of those things and having an idea hits you out of nowhere is like, wow, this is like cosmic. Is there one song or something that you've done where it has been like that and you remember it vividly that like, that's, that's where the song came from was out of nowhere.

[00:56:14] Dude, a lot of the, a lot of the songs on feet on fire were like that. But a lot of them just came out of thin air and, you know, with sitting there with the co-writers and just talking and just, you know, not on our phones, just talking real life. And out in the country came together in like 30 minutes. We wrote that with Pat McLaughlin and he's one of my favorite songwriters ever was like a, in John Prine's band and all that stuff. And we were out in his cabin and I came in with an idea and I was like, this is kind

[00:56:43] of like Goose Creek Symphony. He's like, how do you know who that is? And I was like, I'm a nerd. And he, we just started picking on this thing. And I think I said out in the country or something like that. And I mean, we had it done in like 15 minutes or 30 minutes. And it, it's just like, it's so cool how it happens. It's just like, you don't know where it comes from. It's like, what did I just say? You know, I didn't know I had that in me, you know, or, you know, somebody else always says that in the room.

[00:57:13] It's like, I didn't, I didn't know I had that in me today. And it's like, bam. So yeah, so cool. Yeah. I love being a nerd about country music too. I mean, everyone who's listening to this is probably a nerd about country music, which you know. And I feel like more people should be, you know, and that's, and I, I promise myself before I get on, cause we've been doing, you know, more podcasts here. Recently because of the record and everything. And I've tried not to, for a moment there, I was getting in this like bad habit of being

[00:57:43] like, everything sucks and blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know, it's like, well, maybe I suck, you know, it's like, maybe, you know, maybe somebody thinks I suck. And so I tried to get out of that headspace. But I will say there's a lot of people who don't know the history of country music in this town doing music. And it's like, I don't know how you do it if you don't know the history behind it. You know?

[00:58:10] I think Benjamin Todd was the one person who came in here and like definitely went on about that. And it's just like, there's so much to know, you know, prior to just like phones and televisions and, you know. And it's like, and I'm not saying you have to, you know, go read the country music encyclopedia. And I'm not saying you have to know every person who ever did country music, but it is good to hear some of those legendary songwriters, you know, and legend songs.

[00:58:40] And it's like, you know, I know most everybody grew up on, that are my age, Florida Georgia line and all that stuff. It's like, it goes way back farther than that. Yeah. Way farther. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm rambling again. Well, I feel like that's a perfect note to end on that, you know, everyone should be country music nerds and probably are. You probably are still listening to this, especially this far into it. Well, I just want to thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me.

[00:59:08] And encourage everyone listening to go check out the new album, go see you on tour. Anything else? Follow you on Instagram. All the things. Yeah, yeah. All the things. Y'all do a great job at tagging everybody. So I'm sure it'll be easy to find. So, yeah. Awesome. Y'all roll. Well, thanks so much. Thank y'all so much.