Ski lift evacuation; Most 'extreme' ski spots; Hiker in Crocs, Fireworks on 14er, & More...

In this episode of the OutThere Colorado Podcast, Spencer and Seth chat about a recent rescue involving a hiker in Crocs, extreme skiing spots, fireworks set to get shot off a 14,115-foot peak, an epic new gravel bike race, a ski lift evacuation, and more.

[00:00:00] Welcome to the OutThere Colorado Podcast. I'm your host Spencer McKee and here with host Seth Boster as well.

[00:00:07] Hey gang, we're back. No singing this time. Last time we're singing. We spared you this time.

[00:00:11] Yeah, go back and listen to that last episode if you want to hear Seth rocking out.

[00:00:15] Or don't go back.

[00:00:17] I thought it was good, to be honest. I thought it was poetic and shows off your singing abilities quite well.

[00:00:25] But yeah, we got a lot of interesting stuff today.

[00:00:29] Always.

[00:00:30] Kind of, you know what, this one's not even on our list, but I was covering this today and it's just real quick to talk about it.

[00:00:37] Uh huh.

[00:00:37] There was a hiker rescued in Nevada wearing Crocs. You see that story?

[00:00:41] I did not.

[00:00:42] It prompted, they were, so they were on a 16 mile hike in Crocs.

[00:00:46] Wow.

[00:00:47] Um, wintery conditions. Apparently, uh, they were trying to summit this peak, Mount Charleston.

[00:00:52] Uh, it goes up to almost 12,000 feet.

[00:00:54] Um, they made it to the summit and then turned around.

[00:00:58] Impressive.

[00:00:58] It was icy, snowy, etc.

[00:01:01] Uh, they were with a buddy of theirs too at the time.

[00:01:04] A 20 year old and a 21 year old.

[00:01:06] Um, start slipping and sliding down the mountainside.

[00:01:10] And, uh, yeah, they were really late.

[00:01:13] Their friends called search and rescue crews were about to send a helicopter in the air to find them.

[00:01:17] And then all of a sudden these two battered dudes just kind of get to the bottom of the trailhead.

[00:01:22] They had switched their shoes so that one of them each had a, had a, uh, had a hiking boot on.

[00:01:28] And the other one had one croc.

[00:01:30] All the snow's going in the Crocs.

[00:01:32] They're soaking wet.

[00:01:33] Uh, yeah, pretty, pretty bizarre situation there.

[00:01:36] Uh, they ended up, they were, they were fine.

[00:01:38] They were fine.

[00:01:39] I mean, like, was that part of their challenge to get up to the summit in Crocs?

[00:01:45] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:01:46] Like that, it reminded me of, uh, Erin Tunn, right?

[00:01:48] And her high heel hiking.

[00:01:49] Right.

[00:01:49] With all the 14 years.

[00:01:50] I think she's climbing.

[00:01:51] I remember that.

[00:01:52] Like, yeah.

[00:01:52] I don't even know how many.

[00:01:53] I think it was on her.

[00:01:55] Sparking some, some perhaps warranted debate.

[00:01:58] Yeah.

[00:01:59] Yeah.

[00:01:59] Sparking some debate about, uh, about footwear on the mountains, I guess you could say.

[00:02:04] And that was, for her, indeed, like, kind of a challenge thing.

[00:02:07] Yeah, it was a challenge.

[00:02:08] You know, catching ice.

[00:02:09] But, I mean, with the Crocs, I mean, like, you know, even if you're unaware of the kind

[00:02:14] of conditions you're going into, just think about walking.

[00:02:17] Yeah.

[00:02:17] In your, uh, on your, in your neighborhood for 16 miles.

[00:02:21] 16 miles.

[00:02:21] You know.

[00:02:22] I mean, you don't, you know.

[00:02:24] Not gonna go well.

[00:02:25] That's what leads me to think, like, this had to be, they thought this was a challenge

[00:02:29] of some sort.

[00:02:30] They must have.

[00:02:30] I don't know.

[00:02:31] Well, and Erin with her high heels, right?

[00:02:33] She's climbed all the 14ers multiple times.

[00:02:35] She knows what she's doing.

[00:02:36] I have no clue.

[00:02:37] An athlete, to be sure.

[00:02:38] Yeah, an athlete.

[00:02:39] I don't know what the experience level behind these two, these two were.

[00:02:42] But either way, uh, they've made it down.

[00:02:45] They, they reported they were sliding, like, and falling, like, four to five times every

[00:02:50] minute as they're going down the trail.

[00:02:51] Needed a sled.

[00:02:52] Uh, yeah.

[00:02:53] So, pretty, pretty bruised up and beat up by the time they made it back to the trailhead.

[00:02:57] But.

[00:02:58] Wow.

[00:02:58] Uh, one other interesting part, too, which kind of ties into Colorado hiking in the winter,

[00:03:02] they had brought a ton of water.

[00:03:04] So, they were relatively prepared, or prepared.

[00:03:06] It sounded like they were pretty prepared, minus the Crocs.

[00:03:09] Um, their water froze, though, right?

[00:03:12] So, that got me thinking.

[00:03:14] It's like, how do you keep your water from not freezing, right?

[00:03:17] Like, they sell, like, the insulated, uh, containers and stuff for winter.

[00:03:22] But that's something that a lot of hikers that just go out in the summer for the most part

[00:03:25] in Colorado probably don't think about is what you do when your water starts freezing.

[00:03:29] Yeah.

[00:03:29] You got a trick for that, Seth?

[00:03:31] When my water starts freezing?

[00:03:32] On a hike?

[00:03:34] Man, I'm trying to think the last time I ran into that situation.

[00:03:37] I've, I've definitely thrown in some, like, hand warmers, just, like, taped those to the

[00:03:41] side of my water bottle and it worked.

[00:03:43] I've, you know, I've, I've had it happen and just, there's, I'm with someone generous

[00:03:48] enough to share and the situation is not nearly treacherous enough to be worried

[00:03:53] about the water supply.

[00:03:54] You know what I mean?

[00:03:54] That's fair, too.

[00:03:55] Right.

[00:03:56] Um, it's not a 16 mile hike up to the top of a mountain.

[00:03:59] Right.

[00:03:59] Yeah.

[00:03:59] Pound in wintery conditions.

[00:04:01] Yeah.

[00:04:01] Also storing them upside down apparently is a good one.

[00:04:04] Yep.

[00:04:04] And just having two different sources, you know.

[00:04:07] Two different sources is always important.

[00:04:08] Like, yeah.

[00:04:09] I also always keep one kind of, like, at my chest.

[00:04:12] Like, in that little, I'll have, like, a spare water bottle.

[00:04:15] For your body.

[00:04:16] Yeah.

[00:04:16] Just use that body heat to keep it warm.

[00:04:19] But yeah, either way.

[00:04:20] Yeah.

[00:04:20] Fun little rescue story.

[00:04:22] Thankfully everyone's all right.

[00:04:22] So a story I read recently, if we're on the topic of stories, read recently.

[00:04:29] Over the weekend.

[00:04:30] And the New Yorker.

[00:04:31] The New Yorker did a story.

[00:04:32] This was from November, actually.

[00:04:34] When it was published initially.

[00:04:35] But on, like, there's, like, a bear crisis in Tahoe.

[00:04:40] Have you heard about this?

[00:04:41] In terms of a lot of bears?

[00:04:43] In terms of the all too terribly familiar just human conflicts.

[00:04:52] Well, I saw that one that, like, would go into the convenience store on a regular basis.

[00:04:57] And, like, grab a couple candy bars and leave.

[00:04:59] In Tahoe?

[00:04:59] Yeah.

[00:05:00] Yeah.

[00:05:00] It was in Tahoe.

[00:05:00] So, like, I guess I wasn't aware, like, apparently Tahoe has, like, one of or maybe the most saturated population of bears.

[00:05:09] Like, there's just a lot of them in a small space.

[00:05:12] And so, of course, in COVID, a lot of people moved to Tahoe.

[00:05:16] A lot of new people not aware of how to live with bears moved to Tahoe.

[00:05:20] And I guess it just opened the door for all sorts of crazy stuff.

[00:05:26] It makes sense.

[00:05:27] You know, and bears very familiar with opening car doors, opening front doors.

[00:05:36] Climbing through windows.

[00:05:37] And just wreaking havoc, climbing through windows.

[00:05:40] Probably Colorado, too.

[00:05:41] Like, it's very relevant for Colorado.

[00:05:43] Yeah.

[00:05:44] But anyway, a very interesting, alarming story in The New Yorker about this.

[00:05:49] All leading to, all culminating with, my understanding, if I'm recalling right, like, they have not confirmed that the bear was at fault.

[00:06:00] But a woman was found dead in her home.

[00:06:04] Oh, dang.

[00:06:05] Looking to have been dragged around by the bear.

[00:06:08] Now, I guess the talk was that the woman very well could have died before the bear got in.

[00:06:15] Dang.

[00:06:16] Dang.

[00:06:16] But caused, you know, obviously an example of perhaps the worst case scenario when bears get habituated, right?

[00:06:25] That's the upshot of that lesson.

[00:06:26] Yeah.

[00:06:27] Again, I think as far as I know, it was unconfirmed that the bear had killed her.

[00:06:31] But, yeah, just, I mean, in all these homes, like, getting outfitted with, like, these, like, zapping bears, you know?

[00:06:39] That's something that Colorado Parks and Wildlife recommends.

[00:06:41] They even have instructions online on how to, like, make a doormat that's electric.

[00:06:45] That's right.

[00:06:46] That electrocutes bears.

[00:06:47] Yeah, a doormat.

[00:06:48] Yeah.

[00:06:48] Spikes.

[00:06:49] And obviously those spikes are small, made to be discomfort and not, like, lethal.

[00:06:54] But, yeah.

[00:06:55] Yeah.

[00:06:55] I hadn't heard of that.

[00:06:56] I learned about that.

[00:06:57] I wasn't aware of those doormats.

[00:06:58] Yeah.

[00:06:59] Yeah.

[00:06:59] Look it up.

[00:06:59] Anyway, there's a read for you for your holiday week.

[00:07:03] Yeah.

[00:07:03] That's pretty scary.

[00:07:05] It reminds me of that story from The Woman in Uray.

[00:07:07] Did you ever see that one?

[00:07:09] So, I think it was, like, 15 years ago or so.

[00:07:14] But her neighbors were kind of reporting, like, hey, this person may be feeding bears.

[00:07:19] And you can find the photos online if you look it up.

[00:07:21] But she essentially, I think, had a contractor or someone come out to create this sort of, like, very rickety-looking, like, fencing around her lower deck area to feed bears through this deck.

[00:07:33] Oh, wow.

[00:07:34] And eventually, one day, even though these bears were getting fed by her and, in quotes, right, with friends.

[00:07:40] Yep.

[00:07:41] They got to her and she was found killed.

[00:07:44] Oh, wow.

[00:07:44] Yeah.

[00:07:45] And they consumed her.

[00:07:46] I did not hear about that.

[00:07:47] I want to say...

[00:07:49] Huh.

[00:07:50] Yeah.

[00:07:50] Either way, like, crazy situation.

[00:07:53] Yeah, no, I mean, I was living in Manitou Springs years ago.

[00:07:57] Gosh, what was that?

[00:07:58] Four or five years ago?

[00:08:01] When a worker from one of the bars was walking back late at night and just kind of crossed paths with a bear and her cubs.

[00:08:10] And the mama bear came and, if I'm recalling right, scratched her on the back or something like that.

[00:08:17] She got away fine.

[00:08:18] But, yeah, Parks and Wildlife went out and killed the bear.

[00:08:23] Yeah, if you get between them and they're food or they're young.

[00:08:26] Yeah.

[00:08:26] Because black bears tend to not be that aggressive.

[00:08:29] Like, generally, hikers are told, like, don't fear bears on the trail.

[00:08:34] Like, if you see a bear, give it space.

[00:08:35] Let it go by.

[00:08:36] It's probably more scared of you than it is the other way around.

[00:08:40] But, yeah.

[00:08:40] That was definitely the case.

[00:08:41] In Manitou, I'd get up.

[00:08:43] Man, I remember, like, I had one of these early morning flights that we were just talking about.

[00:08:49] And, yeah, it was, like, gosh, 2 a.m. or whatever.

[00:08:52] Opened my door, looked to my left, and there's a bear, like, probably 15 yards away.

[00:08:57] Oh, yeah.

[00:08:57] I catch them.

[00:08:58] I have these, like, home security cameras and stuff.

[00:09:01] Yeah.

[00:09:01] I catch them on there all the time.

[00:09:03] Yeah.

[00:09:03] And they're big.

[00:09:04] Like, especially, it's funny watching them, like, from the spring to the fall.

[00:09:07] You know, it's probably the same bears we're seeing in so many in the same areas.

[00:09:11] They always come over and inspect my trash.

[00:09:13] Yep.

[00:09:14] Leave disappointed.

[00:09:16] Good.

[00:09:16] Specifically, don't put it out there for them.

[00:09:18] Yeah.

[00:09:18] My favorite bear memory.

[00:09:19] I was pulling up after work one day.

[00:09:22] It was, like, maybe 5, you know, 5.15 or 5.30.

[00:09:25] But I had gotten Taco Bell on the way home.

[00:09:28] I pull up in my car, park at the end of the driveway, and look up.

[00:09:34] And I'm getting out of the car, right?

[00:09:36] So I got Taco Bell in one hand.

[00:09:37] Yep.

[00:09:38] Slam the door shut.

[00:09:38] I'm out of the car.

[00:09:39] I look up, and there's a black bear staring at me in my driveway.

[00:09:42] Oh, wow.

[00:09:43] So I just waved the Taco Bell in the air and kind of made it.

[00:09:45] I was like, whoo!

[00:09:46] And, like, this bear just took off running.

[00:09:48] Dude, if you waved the Taco Bell in the air, I'd run right at you.

[00:09:54] I know, right?

[00:09:55] I'm surprised that bear didn't come and get there.

[00:09:56] I know.

[00:09:56] I was shocked.

[00:09:58] Had he known what I had?

[00:10:00] I don't know if he can.

[00:10:01] He probably can't.

[00:10:01] No, you did right.

[00:10:03] You got big, yeah.

[00:10:04] Yeah, got big.

[00:10:04] And it worked.

[00:10:05] And the bear immediately ran off.

[00:10:06] And got a little bigger after eating the Taco Bell.

[00:10:09] Yeah.

[00:10:09] What's your order, man?

[00:10:10] My Taco Bell order?

[00:10:12] Yeah.

[00:10:12] It used to be a little bit more impressive.

[00:10:14] But nowadays, you know, I like to mix it up and get several of the cheaper items.

[00:10:19] Okay.

[00:10:20] Oddly, the cheesy bean and rice burrito is always a favorite.

[00:10:23] Like, whenever I'm coming back from a run, I don't know if I'm dehydrated and that's salty or what.

[00:10:27] But I'll crush those.

[00:10:28] Nice.

[00:10:29] Well, and you can stay away from the meat that way?

[00:10:31] Yeah.

[00:10:32] I've never had one of those.

[00:10:33] Yeah, they're good.

[00:10:33] They're shockingly good.

[00:10:35] Even better if you throw them in the microwave.

[00:10:37] Like, heat them up.

[00:10:38] Of course.

[00:10:38] Get them nice and piping hot.

[00:10:40] But, yeah.

[00:10:41] I mean, I could talk about Taco Bell for hours.

[00:10:43] I don't know.

[00:10:43] Welcome to the Taco Bell podcast.

[00:10:45] Yeah, people are like, oh, I thought this was out there in Colorado, not California.

[00:10:50] We're getting way out there.

[00:10:51] Yeah, well, I'll bring it back.

[00:10:52] I haven't had Taco Bell in so long, man.

[00:10:54] But the Crunchwrap is.

[00:10:55] Yeah, Crunchwrap.

[00:10:56] Yeah.

[00:10:57] We started making them at home not too long.

[00:10:59] Probably better.

[00:11:00] When you make them at home, they're very good.

[00:11:02] Yeah, probably.

[00:11:02] I'm not surprised.

[00:11:02] Find recipes online.

[00:11:04] Yeah.

[00:11:05] But, yeah, to bring it back to Colorado, here's a story that kind of relates, I guess.

[00:11:08] I think we chatted about it maybe a couple podcasts ago.

[00:11:13] But the girl, the four-year-old girl that was attacked by the coyote.

[00:11:18] For those of you who might miss that, four-year-olds outside playing with another friend.

[00:11:22] And apparently, they were like a large group of children.

[00:11:24] They're in a neighborhood in northern Colorado Springs.

[00:11:26] They see what looks like a dog behind a tree.

[00:11:29] A four-year-old and her other child friend go and approach this dog.

[00:11:33] Turns out it's a coyote.

[00:11:35] It lunges at the girl, grabs onto the back of her head.

[00:11:37] And eventually gets scared away by an adult that was in the vicinity.

[00:11:42] But the girl was severely injured and went to the hospital.

[00:11:45] Colorado Parks and Wildlife said they were going to essentially, you know, lethally remove coyotes from this area

[00:11:52] because they couldn't tell which coyote it was that had attacked this girl.

[00:11:59] Apparently, this kind of launched an initiative.

[00:12:01] And they saw these three coyotes in the area throughout this kind of period of observation

[00:12:06] and period of trying to trap them that were going to these homes for food.

[00:12:11] So they think that food, tying it back to that bear story,

[00:12:13] they think that the food that was in the area and just human food

[00:12:17] was what drew them into this close proximity of these children ultimately.

[00:12:23] Two coyotes were captured and killed, one of whom, or one of which,

[00:12:30] was apparently the coyote that attacked this girl.

[00:12:32] They basically found human DNA in its paws.

[00:12:36] What a trick.

[00:12:37] Straight out of CSI.

[00:12:38] Yeah.

[00:12:38] I was like, dang, DNA used to link coyote to attack.

[00:12:42] Yeah.

[00:12:43] But, yeah, so both of them were euthanized.

[00:12:45] The coyote that attacked the girl did test negative for rabies.

[00:12:48] So that's good news for her and her family.

[00:12:51] It did also test positive, however, for human food in its stomach.

[00:12:55] So, yeah, so keep that food locked up.

[00:12:59] Another one of those reminders.

[00:13:00] Yeah, honestly, this is a story that we cover probably 10 times a year,

[00:13:05] if not more, in regard to there being some sort of a problem

[00:13:08] because people are leaving their food out.

[00:13:10] And, I mean, there's even more.

[00:13:12] It's hundreds of cases of bears getting into things they shouldn't be getting into

[00:13:17] in Colorado if you look at the Colorado Parks and Wildlife numbers.

[00:13:20] But either way, yeah, keep your food safe.

[00:13:24] Yeah.

[00:13:24] All right, moving on to more fun things.

[00:13:27] What do you want to chat about next?

[00:13:28] I'm kind of curious about this wilderness areas and the climbing bolts.

[00:13:32] Oh, yeah.

[00:13:32] You want to chat about that?

[00:13:33] Have you tuned into that?

[00:13:34] Have you heard about that talk over the couple years?

[00:13:35] Yeah, I've been following along.

[00:13:37] Yeah.

[00:13:38] Go ahead and give us a break.

[00:13:39] So for our non-climbing friends listening, it's probably worth kind of just breaking down real quick.

[00:13:45] When we're talking about bolts here, when we're talking about fixed anchors,

[00:13:48] we're talking about this piece of gear, right, that's been placed into the rock

[00:13:54] to serve as protection for one climbing, right,

[00:13:57] to serve as a bolt to clip into and to continue ascending.

[00:14:01] Yeah, and as you're going up on a route, too, it's like, generally speaking,

[00:14:05] you're moving up, you know, 10, 15 feet, clipping in.

[00:14:08] Right.

[00:14:08] Moving up 10, 15 feet, clipping in.

[00:14:10] Moving up 10, 15 feet.

[00:14:11] So it's like you always have a level of protection there.

[00:14:14] Goes without saying placed for safety, you know.

[00:14:18] Yeah.

[00:14:19] I mean, that's one way of explaining it.

[00:14:21] Another way of explaining it is to make these experiences possible, right,

[00:14:24] to ascend this rock.

[00:14:25] Yeah, yeah, and the alternative, too, like he says, talking about, like,

[00:14:29] permanent bolts where a lot of these climbing areas will have bolts that are

[00:14:32] drilled into that rock wall.

[00:14:33] That's right.

[00:14:33] The alternative would be trad climbing where you're using bolts that you essentially

[00:14:37] slide a nut into a little crack, and then you take those off when you leave.

[00:14:42] Good point.

[00:14:42] So that type of climbing, you're not permanently affixing a bolt.

[00:14:45] We're talking about permanent fixtures, which is very important to the

[00:14:50] conversation here because last year, you know, debate sparked about these

[00:14:55] fixed anchors being, quote, unquote, permanent installations, right, which,

[00:15:00] quote, unquote, permanent installations are very explicitly banned under the

[00:15:05] Wilderness Act of 1964.

[00:15:07] Yeah, and often this includes, like, little lean-to shelters, things of that

[00:15:11] nature is what you tend to see targeted a lot, like ski resorts, a lot of those

[00:15:14] people will sneak up on the mountain and build a little shelter during the summer

[00:15:19] for the winter, and then Forest Service comes through and they blow them up,

[00:15:22] essentially.

[00:15:23] Yep.

[00:15:23] And, you know, I mean, the whole ethic of the Wilderness Act is essentially for

[00:15:28] places that have no sign of man, where man is a visitor and does not remain,

[00:15:34] right, including all signs of man.

[00:15:36] Well, it came out, my understanding is, a couple years ago, there was some language

[00:15:41] in planning for Joshua Tree National Park that kind of looked at these bolts as,

[00:15:48] indeed, permanent installations that needed to be closely looked at and

[00:15:52] potentially removed.

[00:15:54] Similar language emerged in planning for Black Canyon of the Gunnison right here

[00:15:58] in Colorado, right?

[00:15:59] So these things are all across, to be sure, are all across Colorado, all across the

[00:16:05] country, in national parks, in wilderness areas, to places like El Cap, right?

[00:16:12] I mean, very iconic, we're talking very iconic rock climbing.

[00:16:16] And when that language came about, there was kind of, you know, is there a target

[00:16:22] after these fixed anchors?

[00:16:24] Sure enough, Forest Service and National Park Service last year, was it last year?

[00:16:31] It was a war on climbing.

[00:16:53] It was very much how climbers took it.

[00:16:58] But events that unfolded, you know, a lot of, a bunch of comments submitted to the

[00:17:04] Forest Service and the National Park Service.

[00:17:07] A lot of legislatures, including here in Colorado, Senator Hickenlooper wrote letters

[00:17:14] advising the agencies to get rid of this proposed policy.

[00:17:23] And long story short, just very recently, the Park Service did go ahead and remove this

[00:17:28] guidance.

[00:17:29] Last I looked, it's still out there for Forest Service.

[00:17:32] There's no word from the Forest Service on kind of where, what step they're going to

[00:17:35] take here.

[00:17:36] So the bulls can stay for now.

[00:17:39] Nothing immediately is going to happen here, right?

[00:17:41] The policy, again, was proposed.

[00:17:43] It was never enacted, never approved.

[00:17:46] But climbers and folks like Senator Hickenlooper are celebrating this as a win for the Park Service

[00:17:54] to remove this proposal.

[00:17:57] Again, Forest Service, last I checked, there's no word on Forest Service pertaining to wilderness.

[00:18:02] But it should also be said, you know, as much as there's a win there in those crowds, there are

[00:18:07] wilderness advocates who, you know, penned a lengthy letter, groups all around the country that

[00:18:14] indeed, you know, look, see these fixed anchors as what they called it, the proverbial crack

[00:18:21] in the armor for wilderness.

[00:18:23] You know, this letter went on to say, you know, these things degrade wilderness character

[00:18:27] through lasting signs of human development and by attracting and concentrating use in sensitive

[00:18:33] landscapes.

[00:18:34] Yeah, well, people aren't even allowed to use like chainsaws for trail construction in

[00:18:39] wilderness areas.

[00:18:40] No bikes.

[00:18:40] Like no bikes.

[00:18:41] Yeah.

[00:18:42] So there are wilderness advocates who say, if we're going to say these things are okay,

[00:18:47] are we going to hear from mountain bikers who say, what about me?

[00:18:49] Are we going to hear from hunters who say, I'd really like a mechanized form of travel?

[00:18:54] Are we going to hear from fishermen who say, I'd like to have a motorboat through streams

[00:18:59] running through wilderness, right?

[00:19:00] Yeah.

[00:19:01] So it is an interesting conversation.

[00:19:03] It is.

[00:19:03] From multiple angles.

[00:19:05] Yeah.

[00:19:05] And I mean, it's easy to say like, okay, does a bolt really make much of a difference in

[00:19:11] terms of like, is that truly invasive?

[00:19:14] I mean, most people aren't even up against these rock faces.

[00:19:17] They'll never see those bolts on the rock face, right?

[00:19:19] Yeah.

[00:19:20] On the ground.

[00:19:20] Yeah.

[00:19:21] Yeah.

[00:19:21] From a distance.

[00:19:22] It's like, there's hardly much of a difference in seeing somebody sport climbing or trad climbing.

[00:19:28] Yep.

[00:19:29] But yeah, I mean, I could see where that is like that, like that proverbial crack, like

[00:19:33] you said.

[00:19:34] Like, and I mean, I guess we have trails and wilderness spaces, right?

[00:19:37] There are trails.

[00:19:38] Are there signage?

[00:19:39] Is there signage?

[00:19:40] I guess there is signage in wilderness spaces too.

[00:19:43] Yeah.

[00:19:43] That's a good point.

[00:19:43] So that's kind of like a safety thing.

[00:19:46] So I wonder what the, like if they were to say, let's remove all of these, would that

[00:19:52] create a more dangerous situation in terms of climbing?

[00:19:56] Or would it just mean that fewer people go there to climb in general, you know?

[00:19:59] Probably a little bit.

[00:19:59] Well, and just the assessment that these proposals called for, right?

[00:20:03] What these proposals very much, you know, laid out as like a quote unquote scientific

[00:20:08] thorough assessment of like, what are these things achieving?

[00:20:11] What are the boxes?

[00:20:13] You know, these agencies work in essentially boxes that are being checked or unchecked,

[00:20:17] you know?

[00:20:18] That is time intensive.

[00:20:20] That is resource intensive.

[00:20:23] And yeah, a lot of legislators were saying these are agencies strapped already and this

[00:20:28] is going to burden those agencies even more.

[00:20:31] So there was a lot of those conversations.

[00:20:33] But yeah, I mean, that initial language that kind of sparked this whole thing, the permanent

[00:20:37] installation, kind of hard to argue against these fixed anchors.

[00:20:43] Yeah, it's definitely a permanent installation.

[00:20:46] And a lot of times too, you know, it's just your average climber, or not your average climber,

[00:20:51] but like it's a random climber that's setting up some of these bolts too.

[00:20:54] It's not necessarily like, here's a sanctioned, like we're going to plan a route here.

[00:20:59] It's just over the decades and decades that climbing's been going on, people just kind

[00:21:03] of found a route they like and have drilled it.

[00:21:06] And I mean, you don't see that as much nowadays with a lot of these non-profits that are kind

[00:21:12] of going out and maintaining some of these climbing areas.

[00:21:13] Ethics have come some ways, yeah.

[00:21:15] Yeah.

[00:21:16] For sure.

[00:21:17] And I mean, it's also one of those things too, where the topic of just bolting in general

[00:21:21] and climbing has always been kind of a hot one where you have some climbers that are

[00:21:25] like, oh, this route's overbolted.

[00:21:28] These people were using too many bolts to climb it, that kind of like makes their climb up

[00:21:32] this route less legitimate.

[00:21:34] And then they'll go through and chop the bolts off.

[00:21:37] Bolt wars.

[00:21:37] We've seen bolt wars in Colorado for sure.

[00:21:39] Pikes Peak, right?

[00:21:40] Isn't there some of that going on?

[00:21:41] You've covered that a little bit, right?

[00:21:42] Yeah.

[00:21:42] Not recently, but in recent years, yeah, there has been a lot of heated debate about that.

[00:21:47] I don't know, going back to, I wrote about El Dorado Canyon's history, you know, going

[00:21:52] back to, gosh, was it the 80s or 90s when a lot of that stuff was coming back?

[00:21:55] And, you know, there's stories of fistfights and, yeah, I mean.

[00:21:59] Yeah.

[00:22:00] But, yeah, it's, so the conversation's not over here as far as I can tell.

[00:22:05] But there is a new kind of chapter in it with the Park Service pulling that proposal.

[00:22:13] I think it got like 1,200 comments or something like that.

[00:22:17] Dang.

[00:22:17] Which, you know, maybe that doesn't sound like a lot, but with these things, it is.

[00:22:22] Yeah, I mean, it shows that people care and people probably feel different ways.

[00:22:26] 12,000.

[00:22:26] Sorry.

[00:22:27] 12,000.

[00:22:27] I was wrong on a comma.

[00:22:28] 12,000.

[00:22:29] Yeah.

[00:22:30] Shows people care.

[00:22:31] Yep.

[00:22:31] But, yeah, I guess also talking about extreme sports here, kind of to hop to a different subject,

[00:22:39] but Crested Butte recently dubbed one of the most challenging ski resorts in the country

[00:22:46] by a ski magazine.

[00:22:48] Was it Crested Butte?

[00:22:48] Crested Butte.

[00:22:49] Yep.

[00:22:49] Yeah.

[00:22:50] Crested Butte ended up, I believe it was sixth on their list of seven places.

[00:22:56] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:56] So, yeah.

[00:22:58] Or, no, sorry, fifth on their list of seven places.

[00:23:00] They attributed that ranking to numerous things, one of which being the ample steep terrain

[00:23:07] that's found at Crested Butte.

[00:23:08] So, their steepest run, which is often called the steepest, right here, I'll get the exact

[00:23:15] quote.

[00:23:16] Mm-hmm.

[00:23:16] So, on the Crested Butte Mountain Resort website, they say that it's often called the steepest

[00:23:21] lift service tree cut run in the U.S., called Rambo.

[00:23:25] Mm-hmm.

[00:23:36] Mm-hmm.

[00:23:38] And I typically tend to ski with people that are much better than me, and they seem to

[00:23:42] be, they seem to have fun on it.

[00:23:45] But I've done some of those runs in that area, and it is terrifying.

[00:23:49] A lot of stop and go from me.

[00:23:51] But, yeah, I mean, Crested Butte, definitely one of the, I think it's something like, yeah,

[00:23:56] 61% of the mountain consists of advanced, expert, and extreme terrain.

[00:24:01] Yeah.

[00:24:02] And then the other portion, 39% is beginner and intermediate.

[00:24:06] So, they kind of have something for everyone, but it is one of those just extreme resorts when

[00:24:11] you really get into it.

[00:24:12] Explaining why I always hear, and I always think, like, with Crested Butte, like, you don't

[00:24:16] even think about skiing there until good stuff comes in the spring, you know?

[00:24:20] Yeah, yeah.

[00:24:21] Because you want that cover.

[00:24:23] Yeah, especially in some of those, like, treed runs and everything.

[00:24:26] And they do have, some of those deep runs are quite rocky.

[00:24:29] Mm-hmm.

[00:24:29] You get little drops all over the place, too.

[00:24:31] You really got to pick your route carefully.

[00:24:34] But, yeah, I mean.

[00:24:34] Is it the most extreme in Colorado?

[00:24:36] You know, yeah.

[00:24:37] Let's open up that question.

[00:24:38] I mean, obviously, you got Silverton, right?

[00:24:40] Silverton's probably going to take the cake regardless there.

[00:24:44] But a lot of that is kind of, you know, I think that's more like natural slopes.

[00:24:48] And that's, Silverton's kind of in a class of its own.

[00:24:50] It really is.

[00:24:51] Where you get, like, a lift, right?

[00:24:52] There's still only one lift.

[00:24:53] They have plans for a second one, I think.

[00:24:54] That's right.

[00:24:55] That's what I heard, yeah.

[00:24:57] It's associated with heliskiing.

[00:24:59] Yeah, you get a lift that takes you about halfway up, and then you can kind of hike

[00:25:02] to some of these, they're better runs, so to speak, or you heliski to the top,

[00:25:07] very remote out in Silverton, Colorado.

[00:25:09] I've never skied it.

[00:25:09] You've really got to be a good skier to probably take full advantage of that.

[00:25:13] Explaining why I've never been there.

[00:25:14] Yeah, same.

[00:25:15] Bought a pass one year and ended up not using it.

[00:25:18] I think it was COVID, though, so.

[00:25:20] You bought a Silverton pass?

[00:25:21] Yeah, they're like $100, $120, and you get a free HelloLap for it.

[00:25:26] It's like normally, like, don't quote me on this, but like $40, $50 to just go up real

[00:25:30] quick and come down for a run.

[00:25:32] And then you can also use it elsewhere.

[00:25:34] They had, like, partner resorts.

[00:25:35] Gotcha.

[00:25:36] So that was why I bought it.

[00:25:37] I was like, maybe I'll go to Silverton.

[00:25:39] Ended up not going to Silverton.

[00:25:40] Was Telluride a partner?

[00:25:42] Yeah, so.

[00:25:43] I don't think Telluride was a partner.

[00:25:45] I think it was kind of some of the, like, maybe it was like Taos, I want to say, or something

[00:25:50] like that.

[00:25:51] Maybe Monarch.

[00:25:51] I don't know.

[00:25:52] Don't quote me on that.

[00:25:55] But yeah.

[00:25:56] No, I mean, Silverton's probably the most extreme, right?

[00:25:58] But there's intense terrain found everywhere, right?

[00:26:01] You got, like, lake shoots at Breckenridge, even.

[00:26:04] Breckenridge, often known for being more family-friendly.

[00:26:07] But they do have some of that extreme terrain, too.

[00:26:10] A Basin.

[00:26:11] I've always thought A Basin has some really extreme terrain, just in terms of, like, the

[00:26:15] runs that they've actually cut, right?

[00:26:17] That whole Pally area.

[00:26:18] Some of that stuff is very fun and very scary.

[00:26:22] Got to talk Telluride.

[00:26:23] Yeah, Telluride, too.

[00:26:24] Telluride.

[00:26:24] Yeah.

[00:26:25] The few times I've been there, it was more relaxed.

[00:26:28] Also never skied Telluride.

[00:26:29] Yeah.

[00:26:30] Yeah, I mean, it's...

[00:26:30] You're learning what kind of skier I am.

[00:26:32] Telluride might be...

[00:26:33] Like I said, only been there, I think, two or three times.

[00:26:37] Pretty far from Colorado Springs.

[00:26:39] Yep.

[00:26:39] Never really had the pass that worked quite, like, didn't align with Telluride.

[00:26:44] But yeah, no, I would say it's up there with my favorite resorts, though.

[00:26:47] Just even those two, three days.

[00:26:48] Just the sheer beauty.

[00:26:50] Yeah, the sheer beauty and just the quality of the runs.

[00:26:52] Really?

[00:26:52] Yeah.

[00:26:53] Yeah.

[00:26:53] Like, I love it.

[00:26:54] And especially if you're looking for, like, some of those fast blacks, right?

[00:26:58] Like, or the fast blues, even.

[00:27:01] Yeah.

[00:27:02] I mean, I think all around Telluride's a great...

[00:27:05] Yeah, great spot, for sure.

[00:27:07] But yeah, I kind of just wanted to give Crested Butte a shout out there.

[00:27:11] Do we switch to most extreme gravel race?

[00:27:13] Yeah, I think we do.

[00:27:14] That's a good little switch.

[00:27:15] It just occurred to me.

[00:27:16] Yeah, Seth's been working on a piece about a new gravel bike race.

[00:27:20] This kind of caught my eye.

[00:27:21] Yeah.

[00:27:22] I've been covering over the years here in Colorado Springs.

[00:27:26] This, the Pikes Peak Apex, this still what you might call an upstart mountain bike race,

[00:27:33] started in 2020, of course, COVID year.

[00:27:37] But it went on, went on.

[00:27:39] One of the rare races that went on in 2020.

[00:27:41] And it's been trying to grow since, right?

[00:27:44] So, like, very single track centric, trying to appeal to mountain bikers wanting big rides,

[00:27:53] big climbs, big drops on terrain here around the Pikes Peak region.

[00:27:58] In their attempts to grow, they're now coming out with a gravel race for this summer, this June.

[00:28:07] And they're calling it what, quote unquote, what might just be Colorado's most stunning gravel race.

[00:28:13] And if you live here in Colorado Springs, I think you could very much call Gold Camp Road.

[00:28:20] Now, do we call that gravel?

[00:28:21] That's a first question.

[00:28:23] I mean, it's gravel.

[00:28:24] Yeah, it's gravelly.

[00:28:25] There are more gravelly stuff, like, out on where you see some of these races, like, out in Kansas.

[00:28:31] Yeah.

[00:28:32] That makes sense.

[00:28:32] Out in rural Colorado.

[00:28:34] Yeah.

[00:28:34] And, I mean, it's a road.

[00:28:36] It's not.

[00:28:36] It's a road.

[00:28:37] It's a dirt road, no doubt.

[00:28:38] No doubt.

[00:28:39] All right.

[00:28:40] So, we're cool with them calling it a gravel race.

[00:28:42] I just wanted to check with that.

[00:28:43] I'm fine with that.

[00:28:43] Okay.

[00:28:44] So, it is going to cover the entirety of Gold Camp Road and then some.

[00:28:48] Dang.

[00:28:49] So, Queen of the Canyons, double checking this.

[00:28:53] It's going to come out of here in Colorado Springs up through Cheyenne Canyon on its way,

[00:28:58] following Gold Camp Road on its way to Cripple Creek and Victor, and then dropping to Canyon City.

[00:29:06] Dang.

[00:29:07] So, we are talking 135 miles, how they're billing it.

[00:29:11] 135 miles, 11,000 feet of climbing over Gold Camp and Phantom Canyon roads, right?

[00:29:16] You familiar with Phantom Canyon?

[00:29:18] Oh, yeah.

[00:29:19] Jeez.

[00:29:19] And then incorporating Shelf Road.

[00:29:22] That's beautiful.

[00:29:24] Big, massive, as the race director called it, to say the least, a heck of a day riding bikes.

[00:29:30] Dang.

[00:29:32] 135 miles?

[00:29:33] 11,000 feet.

[00:29:34] That's awesome.

[00:29:35] And that is a lot.

[00:29:37] I've never, you know, he did it.

[00:29:39] He wrote it.

[00:29:40] And he was describing, like, the descent.

[00:29:42] And I was struggling to picture this because it's been a while on Shelf Road.

[00:29:45] But he says that descent going down to Canyon from Shelf Road is pretty crazy.

[00:29:51] Oh, I bet.

[00:29:51] Yeah.

[00:29:53] Well, and I mean, all those roads are, I'm trying to think.

[00:29:56] I've taken my motorcycle up that way.

[00:29:58] And I mean, even on a bike, it takes, you know, at least over an hour.

[00:30:02] Like, even just that little stretch to Cripple Creek.

[00:30:05] I was trying to think about that, too.

[00:30:06] Just driving that.

[00:30:07] Yeah, it takes a while.

[00:30:08] Yeah, it's rough.

[00:30:09] It's absolutely beautiful.

[00:30:10] Yeah.

[00:30:10] Oh, it's gorgeous.

[00:30:11] It's beautiful.

[00:30:11] And I wonder, like, how, you know, in talking with him, like, again, like I just said, like,

[00:30:16] here in Colorado Springs, we know Gold Camp Road.

[00:30:18] We know this route, right?

[00:30:19] The Gold Belt Tours Scenic Byway.

[00:30:21] It's covering much of that, if people are at all familiar with that.

[00:30:25] Covering some of this history of that area.

[00:30:27] And yeah.

[00:30:29] But, like, it is.

[00:30:31] I mean, it's one of the more beautiful roads out there.

[00:30:37] Yeah, it's underrated.

[00:30:38] Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say, I guess.

[00:30:39] Yeah, it is, yeah.

[00:30:40] And I guess there's not a ton of, like, hiking once you kind of get out there type of thing,

[00:30:44] you know?

[00:30:45] Yep.

[00:30:45] But just for a drive, especially, like, around fall.

[00:30:48] Yep.

[00:30:48] Like, absolutely beautiful drive around fall.

[00:30:51] So, again, that one is covering beyond Gold Camp.

[00:30:53] You know, we're getting on the Phantom Canyon Road and Shelf Road.

[00:30:57] But then there's another option that's getting called the Queen of the Canyons, right?

[00:31:01] And then there's another option called the Mini Majesty.

[00:31:03] And that's going to be a 65-mile out and back covering all of Gold Camp Road.

[00:31:07] Yeah, nice.

[00:31:09] So, you know, a little more doable.

[00:31:10] Yeah.

[00:31:11] I like gravel biking, honestly.

[00:31:13] It's fun.

[00:31:14] Well, and if you're trying to grow a race, I mean, you look to gravel biking, right?

[00:31:17] Well, and it's kind of one of those new trends, too.

[00:31:20] Exactly.

[00:31:21] Yeah.

[00:31:21] In the last decade, even, or even last five years, just as people are kind of getting into biking

[00:31:26] but might not want to be going as intense as some of the mountain biking trails.

[00:31:30] And doing the technical with the drop-offs, with the exposure.

[00:31:33] Yeah.

[00:31:34] Yeah, I love my gravel bike.

[00:31:36] My favorite trails, though, are not the roads at all.

[00:31:38] You know, it's more like those kind of multi-use trails.

[00:31:41] You see hiking.

[00:31:41] 15 feet wide, 10 feet wide.

[00:31:43] Just kind of cruise, get the mileage in.

[00:31:46] Yeah.

[00:31:46] No, that's awesome, though.

[00:31:47] And he organizes, the organizer of this, Micah Rice, he organizes one of the better-known

[00:31:53] gravel races here in the state, Steamboat.

[00:31:56] Oh, yeah.

[00:31:57] Sea gravel.

[00:31:57] Yeah.

[00:31:58] So he knows a little something about gravel racing.

[00:32:00] Yeah, I have some friends that have done that.

[00:32:01] Yeah.

[00:32:01] He said it was awesome.

[00:32:02] Steamboat, obviously, one of the most beautiful parts of Colorado.

[00:32:05] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:05] If you can even pretend you're making a list of the beautiful parts of Colorado.

[00:32:09] We've got so many.

[00:32:09] He said he was not aware.

[00:32:11] So he's kind of been plugged into the springs racing scene for like 15 years now.

[00:32:15] Mm-hmm.

[00:32:15] And he said he was not aware of a formal race covering all of Gold Camp Road.

[00:32:20] Yeah, that's wild.

[00:32:21] Like an organized race with support and all that.

[00:32:24] You know what I mean?

[00:32:24] That'd make a good ultra-marathon, too.

[00:32:26] To get some of those.

[00:32:28] Yeah, yeah.

[00:32:29] That's interesting.

[00:32:29] I have a couple buddies that'll run either in one direction just for training.

[00:32:34] They'll either go up or down Gold Camp out to Cripple Creek and kind of have somebody

[00:32:38] pick them up, you know, or shuttle that way or drop them off, and they run back to the

[00:32:42] spring.

[00:32:42] I always hear about like Rampart range for sure.

[00:32:44] Yeah, Rampart range, too.

[00:32:45] That's another popular training spot.

[00:32:47] But it's kind of interesting.

[00:32:48] Like, how many people are actually going to do this?

[00:32:50] Like, I'll be very curious to see what kind of numbers.

[00:32:53] He was saying he'd be happy if it was 100 people.

[00:32:56] 100 people?

[00:32:57] Yeah.

[00:32:57] Yeah, that seems realistic.

[00:32:58] 135 miles on a bike is, I mean, that's an intense day, but like, you know, like I've

[00:33:03] done 100 on my bike before, and I'm not even like a cyclist, I guess you could say.

[00:33:08] It's like...

[00:33:09] I think it's like...

[00:33:11] I think, you know, you sell it like, you know, if people have had something like this

[00:33:15] in mind, but have just thought, me doing that alone, me doing that with a couple of

[00:33:20] my buddies.

[00:33:21] Yeah.

[00:33:21] That makes sense.

[00:33:22] There you get, you know, your rest stations, that SAG vehicle support, you know, you can

[00:33:28] be assured in some ways.

[00:33:29] You know, I think that's the way to sell it.

[00:33:31] Yeah.

[00:33:32] If you've been thinking about something like this, here's like a safe structure to attempt

[00:33:37] it in, you know?

[00:33:37] Yeah.

[00:33:38] And I would guess a lot of...

[00:33:39] I mean, we're in Colorado, right?

[00:33:41] Like, the best of the best outdoors athletes.

[00:33:43] Mm-hmm.

[00:33:44] There's a good amount of gravel racers that could go that far.

[00:33:48] You know, it's not like asking someone to run 135 miles, but look how many people would

[00:33:52] even sign up for that.

[00:33:54] For sure.

[00:33:54] Yeah.

[00:33:55] Yeah.

[00:33:55] I could see it being a hit.

[00:33:56] I hope it's a hit.

[00:33:57] But yeah, interesting stuff.

[00:33:59] Here, let's take it back to skiing.

[00:34:01] There's a pretty notable incident that unfolded this weekend.

[00:34:06] Oh, yeah.

[00:34:06] I heard about this.

[00:34:07] 174 people rescued from a gondola, or the Winter Park gondola, after it shut down.

[00:34:15] There was a mechanical issue on Saturday, and it did what it was supposed to do, and

[00:34:19] shut down because of the mechanical issue.

[00:34:23] So that's safe, I guess.

[00:34:24] Apparently, it was a rocker arm connecting two sections of Tower 1.

[00:34:29] It got cracked and bent.

[00:34:32] So the lift shuts down, but then all these people are kind of stuck up there for...

[00:34:36] I think it was up to like four hours of rescues going on.

[00:34:40] That involved using ropes to essentially repel people down.

[00:34:44] They were in for a little something more on this ski trip.

[00:34:47] Yeah.

[00:34:48] Whole thing.

[00:34:48] Apparently, it's still shut down, too.

[00:34:50] So that's kind of noteworthy in itself, just because a lot of people use that gondola.

[00:34:54] There are a couple other lifts that are servicing the base of Winter Park at the moment,

[00:34:59] Arrow and Gemini lifts.

[00:35:01] But yeah, they don't have a time frame for when that's going to be fixed.

[00:35:05] I guess it's...

[00:35:06] They got to repair it, and then they have to have it approved by Colorado Tramway Safety

[00:35:12] Board, as you'd expect.

[00:35:15] And then they'll be able to reopen that.

[00:35:16] So it could be...

[00:35:17] I mean, I'm not going to sit here and speculate.

[00:35:19] It could be anywhere from hours to days to weeks.

[00:35:21] Who knows?

[00:35:21] However long that process takes.

[00:35:23] But I'm guessing it'll be a priority to get that up and running, though.

[00:35:26] But yeah, interesting stuff.

[00:35:27] And we talked about it last week, too, with the snowboarder who fell 47 feet from the

[00:35:32] lift at Keystone.

[00:35:34] Apparently, in kind of the days that followed that, I believe one of the instances...

[00:35:39] So that was on a Wednesday.

[00:35:40] I think one instance was on Friday, and one was on Saturday, I want to say.

[00:35:44] Saturday or Sunday.

[00:35:46] But two more people fell from lifts.

[00:35:48] Two more snowboarders.

[00:35:50] One had the safety bar up and was not using it.

[00:35:53] The other one, it wasn't confirmed.

[00:35:54] They fell 37 feet there from the Beaver Run lift on Breckenridge's Peak 9.

[00:36:01] Yeah, I mean, kind of more of the same thing, right?

[00:36:03] Use that safety bar.

[00:36:05] They don't listen to the podcast.

[00:36:07] Don't mess around.

[00:36:07] Well, accidents happen, though.

[00:36:08] Yeah, accidents happen.

[00:36:09] I mean, they could have been listening.

[00:36:11] It's true.

[00:36:12] Accidents do happen.

[00:36:13] We could be talking about it, and it happens to us.

[00:36:15] It's very true, too.

[00:36:16] And I mean, especially when the lift gets windy, you're off balance a little bit.

[00:36:21] But either way, I mean, we usually, without Out There Colorado, I'll usually cover maybe

[00:36:25] one lift fall year, maybe every two years.

[00:36:28] And we've had three and six days.

[00:36:30] So all in Summit County.

[00:36:32] So interesting.

[00:36:34] Is it total speculation as to why?

[00:36:37] I mean, are we just hearing about it?

[00:36:39] I always wonder that.

[00:36:40] I bet these things happen, and we just don't hear about it.

[00:36:43] That's probably part of it, too, sometimes, I would imagine.

[00:36:47] I always wonder.

[00:36:47] Like, that's something that I've always, like, you know, kind of not been happy with is just

[00:36:54] the injury and death reporting that comes from ski resorts.

[00:36:58] Because there's not really, like, a mandate that requires anyone to report this.

[00:37:03] Yeah, I think Colorado Sun had a really big piece on it last year, a couple years ago.

[00:37:07] But there's not really a mandate.

[00:37:09] Like, if someone dies, I don't think they have to report it.

[00:37:11] And whenever we're trying to cover these deaths just from a safety standpoint or injuries from

[00:37:15] a safety standpoint, it can get kind of tricky to track down that information sometimes.

[00:37:21] Sometimes you have to go all the way to, like, the coroner's office to figure out what happened.

[00:37:25] And, yeah, it's one of those things where I think...

[00:37:28] What's the accountability?

[00:37:29] Yeah, it's the accountability.

[00:37:30] And I think, I mean, obviously, like, resorts probably don't want negative press, right?

[00:37:35] That's exactly right, yeah.

[00:37:36] But at the same time, it's one of those things where it's like if someone does, you know,

[00:37:40] run into a tree and die, like, obviously that's a tragic scenario.

[00:37:44] But it's not like the resort's at fault.

[00:37:46] That's one thing where I've always been like, you know, it's like everyone assumes the risk of skiing.

[00:37:50] Skiing is a high-risk sport.

[00:37:51] Get your pass and you sign your waiver at the same time, essentially.

[00:37:54] Yeah, it's not like it's on them to, like, prevent that death.

[00:37:57] So just in terms of the, like, bad PR idea of maybe that's why they don't get reported.

[00:38:02] But either way, I mean, I think it's important to report it just so people know what risks they're taking, you know?

[00:38:08] Especially from the injury standpoint.

[00:38:10] Like, what percentage of skiers get injured throughout the course of a year?

[00:38:13] Wouldn't that be amazing to know?

[00:38:15] Very wishful thinking in that regard.

[00:38:18] But, yeah, and I wonder, too, like, there's probably lift incidences every day.

[00:38:23] Most of them are probably not very serious.

[00:38:25] You know, someone, like, not getting settled correctly and then just falling off right after the border or something.

[00:38:30] Yeah.

[00:38:30] I've seen that happen.

[00:38:31] I mean, you know, you're not getting – there's no report on that.

[00:38:34] The person gets up and they're like, oops, that was embarrassing.

[00:38:36] Right.

[00:38:36] Goes and gets a beer at the bar probably.

[00:38:38] But I'm with you.

[00:38:40] I mean, yeah, I think there's something to be said about that conversation, that dialogue continuing, you know?

[00:38:46] Because, yeah, I mean, it's nuanced.

[00:38:49] Like you were saying, is it the resort's fault?

[00:38:52] You can go back and forth on that.

[00:38:55] But at the end of the day, I think every resort would say that they want to keep being safer.

[00:39:01] They want to do everything they can to be safer.

[00:39:03] And I would argue that accountability makes everyone and everything better, you know?

[00:39:09] I mean, I think if resorts saw numbers, maybe they have more conversations of how could that be avoided?

[00:39:17] How can that be avoided?

[00:39:18] Yeah.

[00:39:19] Yeah.

[00:39:19] Transparency.

[00:39:20] Well, and even, like, just the idea of, like, if people were able to see, okay, this is how many people get a head injury every year.

[00:39:26] Maybe they start wearing a helmet more, you know?

[00:39:28] Because it's like I have a lot of friends that don't wear helmets when we're on the slopes.

[00:39:31] And they're like, hey, like, I've never been hurt.

[00:39:34] You don't really see it.

[00:39:34] But it's like ultimately, like, maybe if you're more transparent about those numbers, maybe you get people taking those precautions.

[00:39:41] To help you.

[00:39:41] Yeah.

[00:39:43] And ultimately, hopefully cutting down those numbers.

[00:39:45] The same thing is like promoting a life jacket, you know?

[00:39:47] It's like when you see the number of water deaths every year, that's the most telling thing.

[00:39:52] Like, you know, it's like I've covered 10 stories this year alone about people that have been paddleboarding and have drowned because they weren't wearing a life jacket.

[00:40:00] You know, it's like I would like to think that a lot more people are probably wearing life jackets when they're paddleboarding now just because of that constant coverage.

[00:40:09] Yeah.

[00:40:09] Same goes for skiing.

[00:40:10] So, yeah, it'll be interesting.

[00:40:12] I hope at some point in the future there's more of a policy around that or at least more of a practice around that.

[00:40:19] Yeah.

[00:40:19] But, yeah, what else we got here, Seth?

[00:40:22] Did you want to talk about closures?

[00:40:24] Oh, yeah.

[00:40:24] We could talk about closures.

[00:40:25] That's been, like, an interesting trend.

[00:40:27] Yeah, very sad trend.

[00:40:28] And, yeah, I just popped over by FH Beer Works on Saturday.

[00:40:33] The last day out of there, isn't it?

[00:40:35] Last day they were open.

[00:40:36] Yeah, they announced their closure earlier this month after 10 years of operations.

[00:40:42] They had beers in liquor stores.

[00:40:44] Sticky Paws was probably their most famous one that people could find places.

[00:40:49] I think Good Day IPA was another one I want to say.

[00:40:52] Not so good day anymore for FH.

[00:40:54] Yeah, right.

[00:40:55] Sad stuff.

[00:40:55] I was really sad to see them go.

[00:41:00] But, yeah, there's been a lot of closures this year.

[00:41:03] I wonder if it's just kind of the effect of, like, you know, trying to hang on or all these small businesses just around Colorado, Colorado Springs, Denver area, et cetera, trying to hang on after that COVID hit.

[00:41:13] And then trying to get things going again.

[00:41:16] Now that the country has kind of moved past that in a lot of ways.

[00:41:20] There's a great – the Gazette in Colorado Springs did a great report over the weekend kind of looking at the restaurant industry.

[00:41:27] You know, what is the restaurant industry facing right now?

[00:41:29] And it really broke down a lot of good factors, I thought.

[00:41:33] There's one quote that really stood out to me.

[00:41:36] Like, it almost seemed like it's as simple and as complicated as this quote.

[00:41:41] So make sure I got it here, buddy.

[00:41:43] And that report, if you want to look it up, too, it's tougher times ahead is what it's headlined as.

[00:41:48] Rich Laden and Brianna Gent were the authors there.

[00:41:51] Yeah.

[00:41:52] Yeah, there's a quote from a restaurant owner.

[00:41:55] We need to charge $30 for a burger, but we can't, you know.

[00:41:58] So essentially saying prices are such on our small margins, right?

[00:42:03] Like this, you know, to – and that's in here, too.

[00:42:06] What is it like for every – I thought this was fascinating, too.

[00:42:11] Let me make sure I got this right.

[00:42:13] Well, in the restaurant industry, right, notoriously hard to –

[00:42:16] The National Restaurant Association, the trade group that represents the industry,

[00:42:19] estimates restaurant operators only have about three cents left over for every dollar they spend on food, overhead, and labor.

[00:42:27] Dang.

[00:42:28] A little more perspective on the margins that these people are trying to work under.

[00:42:33] Yeah, that's wild.

[00:42:34] And when prices go up, you would think, of course, menu items go up.

[00:42:39] But then there comes a time prices are up for you and me as consumers, and we're making decisions,

[00:42:46] and maybe those decisions are not to go out and eat.

[00:42:49] And, you know, there's another part in this about, you know, just chains.

[00:42:52] Like people just increasingly maybe being attracted to chains.

[00:42:55] Like all the big buzz about In-N-Out, all the big buzz about Whataburger in Colorado, right?

[00:42:59] True.

[00:43:00] That is true.

[00:43:00] People wanting – getting what they expect, you know.

[00:43:04] If they got to spend their money these days, they want to make sure they know what they're getting,

[00:43:08] and that's where the chains live, you know.

[00:43:10] Well, and even just kind of looking at the brewery industry in general, right?

[00:43:15] Same, yeah.

[00:43:16] There's 31 breweries in Colorado Springs, so it's a lot of breweries for the state or for the city.

[00:43:25] And what I've seen, you know, it's like, you know, I moved here 10 years ago.

[00:43:29] A beer at a craft brewery was like $5, you know.

[00:43:32] And now all of a sudden it's almost $10.

[00:43:36] Like I think one of the beers I got this weekend at FH was $9.30 or something like that.

[00:43:41] And most of them were in that $7.50 to $9.50 range.

[00:43:45] Yep.

[00:43:47] Which, I mean, that's pretty expensive.

[00:43:49] You can get a six-pack at the liquor store for that price.

[00:43:51] Mm-hmm.

[00:43:52] So, I mean, and obviously you're going to a brewery for kind of the community aspect

[00:43:56] and something to do type of thing.

[00:43:58] But if someone's going to sit there and have, you know, three beers, that's $30 potentially or more.

[00:44:04] And, yeah, I mean, it's pricey.

[00:44:06] And this was something that I thought was interesting too.

[00:44:10] Brewers Association, they reported that across the country there have been 335 openings this year

[00:44:18] for craft brewers and 399 closures.

[00:44:22] So, you're kind of seeing that there.

[00:44:25] The difference of what, 64?

[00:44:25] How the pendulum swings, yeah.

[00:44:27] Yeah.

[00:44:27] And it is one of those things where like 10 years ago it was the hot thing to do, opening a brewery.

[00:44:32] And then, yeah, kind of.

[00:44:33] Competition heated up and economy got complicated.

[00:44:37] And there's also in this reporting on the restaurant industry, I was fascinated about, which I guess I hadn't realized.

[00:44:46] You know, I heard about it when the ballot was up that year.

[00:44:49] But, you know, over recent years there's kind of been some new policies that I would say, you know,

[00:44:55] the intent is to help workers out.

[00:44:58] An example being voter approved Colorado family and medical leave insurance, a program that took effect January 1st,

[00:45:07] allows eligible, I'm reading from the report, eligible employees up to 12 weeks of paid leave every year

[00:45:12] to care for themselves or family members during significant events like illness or childbirth.

[00:45:16] So businesses with 10 or more employees, restaurants, breweries, must contribute 0.9% of a worker's gross paycheck

[00:45:26] toward the program every quarter.

[00:45:30] And, you know, as one of the business owners says in here, you know, these are great programs,

[00:45:35] but those are things that add up to these small profit margins that they're working on.

[00:45:40] You know, policies like these.

[00:45:42] Minimum wage.

[00:45:43] Minimum wage.

[00:45:44] Obviously a great thing.

[00:45:45] Yep.

[00:45:45] For people to make more money.

[00:45:47] Hard to argue those things, but what it means for small businesses.

[00:45:50] Yeah.

[00:45:51] The upshot, eat local.

[00:45:52] Drink local, right?

[00:45:54] Yeah.

[00:45:54] Spend your money local.

[00:45:55] Yeah.

[00:45:56] Yeah.

[00:45:56] There is a consequence.

[00:45:57] It's one of those things where it's like there's, you know, two sides to every coin in that regard.

[00:46:02] And, yeah.

[00:46:04] I mean, that's why we have politics, I suppose.

[00:46:07] But we don't talk politics on the show.

[00:46:08] We don't talk politics.

[00:46:09] You're welcome.

[00:46:10] You're welcome, everybody.

[00:46:11] Yes.

[00:46:11] But, yeah, there's been a lot of closures.

[00:46:13] I mean, the takeaway here is it's like everyone listening to this from their whatever Colorado

[00:46:18] community they're in, you know, they probably have their own little list of things they've

[00:46:23] seen go away.

[00:46:24] I mean, Colorado Springs this year, right?

[00:46:26] We had FH Beer Works, Mountain Shadows, very popular brunch spot, highly rated down in

[00:46:31] old Colorado City.

[00:46:32] We had Brooklyn's on Boulder, which has been around for a while.

[00:46:36] Making Gin, 3E's Comedy Club, right?

[00:46:41] The Perk, which is a really popular coffee shop downtown.

[00:46:44] It was a big one.

[00:46:46] Yeah, that was a big one.

[00:46:47] I think that was the one that people said they would miss the most on the Gazette poll,

[00:46:50] looking at like which restaurant closure.

[00:46:53] That was a big one.

[00:46:54] Yeah.

[00:46:55] Wild Goose Meeting House.

[00:46:56] That was a big one.

[00:46:58] Wild Goose also.

[00:46:58] Wild Goose was a big one.

[00:47:00] When I first moved here, I hung out there quite a bit.

[00:47:02] Yeah, man, it's a great spot.

[00:47:04] It was a great spot.

[00:47:06] Yeah, Bell Brothers, another brewery, relatively new.

[00:47:09] I think they've been around for a year or so, probably a year and a half.

[00:47:13] The Well, another popular spot.

[00:47:15] That food hall.

[00:47:16] Kind of capitalize on that cool food hall with the bar situation.

[00:47:20] And that's just, I mean, that's just a quick list.

[00:47:22] I still miss the theater, man.

[00:47:24] Gosh, I hate walking.

[00:47:25] Yeah.

[00:47:25] The Kimball's, oh my gosh.

[00:47:27] I hate walking by there every day.

[00:47:28] That's like an iconic fixture of downtown Colorado Springs that closed.

[00:47:32] And was that this year, too?

[00:47:33] It was, right?

[00:47:34] Earlier this year?

[00:47:35] Gosh, when did that close, Spence?

[00:47:36] I think.

[00:47:37] Was it last year?

[00:47:39] Producer Tim is saying last year.

[00:47:40] It's been too long.

[00:47:42] Put it that way.

[00:47:42] Yeah.

[00:47:43] It's been dark for too long.

[00:47:44] That marquee has been blank for too long.

[00:47:47] Yeah.

[00:47:47] If anyone with money is listening, I will contribute sweat equity.

[00:47:53] I will scoop popcorn.

[00:47:55] I will clean seats.

[00:47:58] This is how we're taking advantage of.

[00:48:00] Yeah.

[00:48:00] I saw the Alpinist.

[00:48:01] Our producer will also.

[00:48:02] He's chiming in.

[00:48:02] He'll do it, too.

[00:48:03] Yeah.

[00:48:03] So you got two workers.

[00:48:05] There you go.

[00:48:05] I will happily go and watch movies there.

[00:48:09] We will serve Spencer.

[00:48:10] The Alpinist.

[00:48:11] If you guys haven't seen that movie.

[00:48:13] I saw, you know, some of the best movies I've seen were at Kimball.

[00:48:17] Yeah, The Alpinist, a 2021 film following Marc-Andre Leclerc.

[00:48:24] I remember this one.

[00:48:25] Yeah.

[00:48:25] A 23-year-old Canadian climber that makes the wild stunts that Alex Honnold does,

[00:48:31] free soloing.

[00:48:32] He almost won.

[00:48:34] Yeah, I mean, in my opinion, he does one-up that, in a sense,

[00:48:36] in terms of, like, the just shock factor.

[00:48:39] He, unfortunately, is dead.

[00:48:43] But very, very talented climber lost too young.

[00:48:47] That movie is a great movie, if you haven't seen it.

[00:48:50] 93% of Rotten Tomatoes.

[00:48:51] That's my movie recommendation for the episode.

[00:48:54] We always get around to movies.

[00:48:55] It's about the awards season here.

[00:48:58] Big movies.

[00:48:59] I got a lot of catching up to do.

[00:49:00] Yeah, well, speaking of the awards season and fireworks.

[00:49:05] Oh.

[00:49:05] Right?

[00:49:05] There's fireworks with awards.

[00:49:08] There's about to be a pretty big celebration taking place on top of a 14,000-foot mountain

[00:49:13] in Colorado.

[00:49:15] For those of you who don't know, every New Year's club called the Adamant Club hikes up

[00:49:23] Pikes Peak, right?

[00:49:24] Snow or shine, essentially, with a ton of fireworks on their back.

[00:49:29] And then they launch them from the summit twice in the night, I think usually around 9 and then

[00:49:33] usually around midnight on New Year's Eve.

[00:49:36] So it's a great show.

[00:49:37] Anyone in the city pretty much on a clear night can see it.

[00:49:40] That's key.

[00:49:41] You can just hear the booming cracks of those fireworks exploding, just like going down

[00:49:45] through the valleys.

[00:49:46] It's a pretty wild moment.

[00:49:47] One of those traditions that really helps to find some of the unique things in Colorado

[00:49:53] Springs, I guess.

[00:49:55] There's just these historic traditions.

[00:49:56] 1922.

[00:49:57] 1922.

[00:49:58] Yeah.

[00:49:58] So it's behind the Adamant Club.

[00:49:59] Seth's been working with writing about them a bit lately.

[00:50:02] So tell us about the Adamant Club.

[00:50:03] Started, yeah, 1922 with five men here.

[00:50:07] The Frozen Five.

[00:50:08] The Frozen Five, as they're known, yeah.

[00:50:09] And imagine a 1922 hiking up that mountain in winter conditions.

[00:50:14] Yeah.

[00:50:14] There's these old pictures of them in their leather and their caps and their, you know,

[00:50:19] cotton.

[00:50:20] Cotton.

[00:50:21] I'm looking at a picture now.

[00:50:22] You know, suits and whatnot.

[00:50:25] But yeah, they add a member every year.

[00:50:27] That's the tradition, right?

[00:50:28] To keep the club going.

[00:50:30] That's the idea.

[00:50:31] To bring in fresh people every year.

[00:50:34] And yeah, since 1922.

[00:50:36] So the calendar, I'm just looking at it.

[00:50:39] They leave on December 30th.

[00:50:42] They start up Bar Trail.

[00:50:44] This group does.

[00:50:46] And then they'll overnight at Bar Camp.

[00:50:48] And then they'll proceed on their way New Year's Eve and get up there for, yep, like you said,

[00:50:54] there's those short fireworks to commemorate the Frozen Five at 9.

[00:50:59] And then the full show at midnight.

[00:51:02] And then the unsung heroes in this whole tradition is this four-wheeling club that drives up to get them.

[00:51:07] Oh, yeah.

[00:51:08] Because they don't hike down.

[00:51:09] Right.

[00:51:10] They ride down.

[00:51:10] You're right.

[00:51:11] Gosh, if they had to hike down.

[00:51:13] Yeah.

[00:51:14] Yeah, it says here on their website, 105 members right now.

[00:51:17] And all these members, like you look at their climbing resumes,

[00:51:21] and they're not just like accepting people that climb a few 14ers, right?

[00:51:25] They're all like people that have climbed Everest or a lot of them.

[00:51:29] It's like things like that where they have like big, big accolades to their name in terms of their mountaineering accomplishments.

[00:51:36] A lot of them have like history in town or family history that goes back a long ways.

[00:51:40] Yeah.

[00:51:41] Volunteerism is a component to it.

[00:51:45] And just fun to be around is another component for sure.

[00:51:49] And they've done 101 climbs.

[00:51:51] Is it 101?

[00:51:52] Yeah.

[00:51:52] That's what the website says.

[00:51:53] I'm just reading off the website.

[00:51:55] Trying to think if it's updated.

[00:51:56] That could be right.

[00:51:57] It's that or what did you say?

[00:51:58] 101?

[00:52:01] 101 is what the website says.

[00:52:02] You could.

[00:52:03] That or 100.

[00:52:03] They did their 100 very recently.

[00:52:06] So whatever that was.

[00:52:07] Well, in notable news in recent years, right?

[00:52:11] They've, if I remember correctly.

[00:52:15] Because you were talking about the person who got brought on this year, right?

[00:52:19] Yeah.

[00:52:19] So tell us about her a little bit.

[00:52:21] Definitely a poignant one for this year.

[00:52:24] Unlike any.

[00:52:25] Again, talking about this over 100 year history.

[00:52:28] Unlike any other moment in their history.

[00:52:31] And probably one of the more sad moments in their history.

[00:52:34] This was a really tough story to write.

[00:52:36] The member this year is.

[00:52:39] There's two members.

[00:52:41] Which also is unprecedented in this regard.

[00:52:45] Including one being their first posthumously added member.

[00:52:49] His name is Luke Stark.

[00:52:51] Heck of a guy.

[00:52:53] I got to talk to him.

[00:52:54] His dad is a member.

[00:52:56] Lance Stark.

[00:52:56] He was added in 20.

[00:52:58] He was the added man in 2018.

[00:53:00] And Luke has hiked with his dad.

[00:53:02] Had been hiking with his dad ever since then.

[00:53:06] Over the summer.

[00:53:08] Was working a job in Utah.

[00:53:10] And driving home for Father's Day.

[00:53:12] And he died in an accident.

[00:53:14] And he was only 26 years old.

[00:53:16] Very sad.

[00:53:18] But the group posthumously added him to this historic membership roster this year.

[00:53:22] Never been done before.

[00:53:23] And along with him, they added his sister.

[00:53:25] Who's also been hiking along.

[00:53:27] With dad and her best friend and brother.

[00:53:30] Over the past few years.

[00:53:31] That's Rachel Stark.

[00:53:33] Very accomplished in her own right.

[00:53:35] Luke had hiked all the 14ers by the time he was 24 years old.

[00:53:39] Yeah.

[00:53:39] And it says she skied down some too.

[00:53:40] Yeah.

[00:53:41] And they skied a lot together.

[00:53:42] They competitively rock climbed together.

[00:53:44] He and his sister.

[00:53:45] So, yeah.

[00:53:46] It'll be a touching moment for sure this year.

[00:53:48] The new member always leads the way up.

[00:53:50] So, that's the plan.

[00:53:51] That Rachel and her dad will lead the way up.

[00:53:53] And it'll kind of honor Luke this year.

[00:53:55] Dang.

[00:53:55] So, yeah.

[00:53:56] I mean, there's a message for your new year.

[00:53:59] You know.

[00:53:59] Love your people this year.

[00:54:01] Yeah.

[00:54:01] And when you're looking up at the mountain.

[00:54:03] Seeing those fireworks.

[00:54:04] Know that that's the story behind it.

[00:54:05] That's right.

[00:54:05] And, yeah.

[00:54:06] Remember that to enjoy life for sure.

[00:54:10] Yeah.

[00:54:11] And have fun.

[00:54:13] Yeah.

[00:54:14] That's a good story.

[00:54:15] Yeah.

[00:54:15] Heavy one.

[00:54:17] But a good, you know, new year message.

[00:54:19] No doubt.

[00:54:19] Yeah.

[00:54:20] A good new year message.

[00:54:21] Yeah.

[00:54:22] I guess moving on to a little bit of a lighter story to kind of close out the show.

[00:54:27] Also looking ahead toward the new year.

[00:54:31] A couple weeks ago, Seth was tasked with coming up with his bucket list for 2025.

[00:54:36] Because you got yours.

[00:54:37] I had mine.

[00:54:38] Am I allowed to cross over at all?

[00:54:40] You can cross over.

[00:54:40] Mine was about going into Western Colorado.

[00:54:43] I had a few spots over there that I mentioned.

[00:54:45] But, yeah.

[00:54:46] Let's hear what you got, Seth.

[00:54:48] Well, in Western Colorado, I have not done Mesa Verde.

[00:54:51] You talked about Mesa Verde, and I'm right there with you.

[00:54:54] That's one that maybe we do together.

[00:54:55] We should.

[00:54:56] And go.

[00:54:57] Get to the Four Corners region.

[00:54:58] Do a little camping trip.

[00:54:59] It's crazy because, like, I've been on the other side of it.

[00:55:01] The lesser known side that's overseen by the tribe there.

[00:55:07] By the Ute tribe.

[00:55:08] Interesting.

[00:55:08] And it's like a park that you kind of got to go through some hoops to get back there.

[00:55:14] And you got to get escorted back there.

[00:55:16] But, yeah.

[00:55:16] I've been back there, but I've never been on, you know, the far more accessible Mesa Verde site.

[00:55:20] So definitely want to do that.

[00:55:25] But I'm going to bookend this with two trains, believe it or not.

[00:55:28] There we go.

[00:55:30] One being Winter Park Express.

[00:55:31] All right.

[00:55:32] You know, if there was ever a time to do that, they announced more rides this year, and the price is cheaper this year, as I understand it.

[00:55:40] It goes from Denver to Winter Park.

[00:55:41] Yep.

[00:55:41] I think that'd be cool.

[00:55:43] Just pack the skis and not worry about driving I-70.

[00:55:47] Right.

[00:55:48] Yeah.

[00:55:49] I think that's something, you know, folks should do.

[00:55:50] School experience, for sure.

[00:55:51] Yeah.

[00:55:53] A lot of buzz about Virginia Canyon.

[00:55:55] All the new mountain biking trails there above Idaho Springs.

[00:55:58] Those are steadily coming online.

[00:56:00] And this year could definitely also see, if all goes accordingly, the addition of the gondola that's going to go up that mountainside above the Argo tunnel.

[00:56:10] That'd be sweet.

[00:56:11] Getting up to that high scenic point.

[00:56:13] I think it's kind of just going to be a hub for sightseeing.

[00:56:16] And I think there's going to be some food and drink up there.

[00:56:18] And that's really going to be the launch point for these downhill mountain bike trails.

[00:56:21] I think that could be a big thing for Idaho Springs.

[00:56:24] And also a contentious thing, right?

[00:56:26] There's a lot of people talking about how that's kind of changing their town.

[00:56:31] Bringing in a lot more people.

[00:56:32] Yeah.

[00:56:33] And I mean, Idaho Springs is, for most people at least, it's kind of one of those pass-through towns where it's like you might stop for gas or a beer or something.

[00:56:40] This could really bring people over there.

[00:56:43] Never done conundrum hot springs.

[00:56:46] Cliche to be on a bucket list.

[00:56:48] Yeah.

[00:56:48] Got to get a permit for that.

[00:56:50] Yeah.

[00:56:50] Not now.

[00:56:51] I got to look into that.

[00:56:52] A couple years ago, right?

[00:56:53] Yeah.

[00:56:53] I think the permit's only for staying overnight, though, too.

[00:56:56] For camping overnight.