Signs you're a 'true Coloradan'; Big upgrades on a tiny ski hill; Where are the guardrails at?; Wild West towns; & More...

[00:00:08] Welcome to the OutThere Colorado Podcast. I'm Spencer McKee, here with Seth Foster. Howdy howdy. And as usual we've got a lot of Colorado topics to chat about today. Including a little bit on Presidents in Colorado's outdoors. Yeah. Leading up to Presidents Day. Yeah, potentially a very snowy Presidents Day weekend too. Uh huh. Seeing the open snow report was saying 31 inches over the next five days at Wolf Creek. And yeah, potentially even more snow after that.

[00:00:38] Wolf Creek needs it. Yeah, they do. Southwest needs it. Man, I was writing about this today in Southwest Colorado. Let me pull this report up so I get the numbers right. Yep. But Southwest Colorado is at 62% of their snowpack norm right now. The state's at 82%. Which, 82% doesn't sound that bad, right? And it's compared to seasons dating back to like 1987. 80s, yeah. Yeah. Doesn't sound that bad, but that puts the state total.

[00:01:07] They're in the 18th percentile compared to other snow seasons. Southwest Colorado's in the 13th percentile. So really lacking snow down there. Well, it still hasn't stopped a big party at a little, little ski hill in Southwest Colorado. So that's another teaser. That's another teaser. Another teaser. Okay. For whenever we want to get there. Yeah, we'll dig into that here. Don't you think we should start this show with teasers? Isn't that how we capture people's attention? Yeah, I think. And we need some teasers for coming up next week type of stuff too.

[00:01:36] I mean, we need to capture attention as much as we can. I mean, we are a grassroots podcast trying to grow. Yeah. Well, on that note too, then we're going to talk about a really scary drive later in this episode and also why there are no guardrails on a lot of these scary roads around Colorado. So, all right. Yeah. I got some nice teasers. Interesting stuff today. Might be the start of a tradition on teasers. Yeah. Well, and, and back to the, back to the snow here too.

[00:02:03] Yeah. Jonathan Ingram with Denver Gazette was reporting between three and five feet of snow could fall through the 18th in parts of Colorado. So, yeah. So it could be very big snow. Could be chaos in the mountains. As long as people going up, as long as the cities are good. I got to, I got to fly out on Friday. Ooh. Yeah. Who knows? I got to go to the flatlands of Chicago. I think this first round of snow is like Monday to Wednesday. And then, um, I think some snow start on Friday. So really?

[00:02:30] Yeah. Probably, probably, probably in the mountains is where it's going to be, where it's going to be centered, but, um, yeah, Coloradans are used to it. And, uh, for the first topic of the day, uh, kind of a fun little topic here, but telltale signs that you're a true Coloradan. Um, it's fun little article that wrote a while back. Um, and, uh, basically looking at, uh, what, what are some of these Colorado stereotypes? Um, my favorite.

[00:03:00] One on the list. There's 61 of them too. And you can find this on the out there Colorado website, 61 telltale signs that you're a true Coloradan. So we don't provide. Yeah. I really, uh, really spent a lot of time coming up with these, I guess. But my favorite one. I gotta pull it up. As, uh, people who have watched. What's the headline, Spencer? 61 telltale signs you're a true Coloradan. Got it. Uh, my favorite one on the list as people who watch our, uh, watch our podcast videos probably know is that you're a true Coloradan.

[00:03:29] And if you've got a section of your closet dedicated to flannels, I think I've got like 30 flannels in my, in my closet, taking up most of the space in my closet, to be honest. Yeah. Do that for you guys. Try to keep it exciting with new flannels or try to, try to get as many new flannels on the, on the show as possible. Shout out to Costco providing many of my flannels. Oh yeah. I tend to pick mine up at Ark. Yeah. You know, the, that's a good way to do a discount discount.

[00:03:57] It's very environmental of you, bud. Trying to reuse flannels as much as I can. Um, another good one, uh, use the mountains for your sense of direction. I think that's something that definitely rings true for, especially in Colorado Springs where, you know, you have planes on one side of the highway and mountains on the other side. It's always easy to tell where you're at in Colorado whenever you know those mountain landmarks.

[00:04:21] Um, but yeah, another one, uh, you've, you've tried Rocky mountain oysters and, uh, you've also convinced somebody else to try them. Also a favorite of mine. Yeah. Chicken fingers. Yeah. I mean, I'm, I wouldn't say I'm a fan of Rocky mountain oysters, but yeah, it kind of tastes like almost like alligator to me, which I don't know what that says about, uh, about the connection. You, uh, you eat alligator quite a bit, you know, worked up a taste for alligators.

[00:04:47] I was a, uh, you know, growing up, going down to Florida for spring break, little kid, you know, you always, you got to try the alligator bites on the menu. And I think Rocky mountain oysters are, uh, pretty similar to be honest. I've never had gator. And also a, uh, it is one of those things where it's like when people are visiting from out of town, they're like, Oh, what are the Rocky mountain oysters? You know, you kind of have to nudge them to, to give them a little bit of a, uh, encouragement to give it a try.

[00:05:14] So yeah, kind of, uh, tell me about this one, you know, yeah, you don't think you have an accent, but really you do. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe that's a personal one for me. I don't, I don't think that I, uh, you, the Coloradans really have an accent, maybe say mountains instead of mountains. Mountains is maybe one of those. Yeah. Mountains. You kind of roll through that, but yeah. That's a good point. I, there are some missing T's out there.

[00:05:38] Yeah. Yeah. And call it Colorado, right? Colorado. People kind of say it differently, but in Colorado, it's Colorado. I feel like I did. I will say one of the highlights of my, uh, career out there. Colorado is, uh, one of the comments that was left on one of our videos that was just, I don't think Colorado has an accent, but if it does, it's how this guy's talking. Yeah. So I don't know what that means, uh, but it did make me laugh. So, uh, here's another one.

[00:06:07] You can randomly spot the South park destinations during regular life in the mountains. Oh yeah. Right. Obviously Casa Bonita's, you know, that's, that's a very famous one, but you know, you're going through fair play, Colorado, and you see the little, uh, the little Western, uh, museum facility. You see, uh, you see there's some of the ponds that are mentioned in the show or in Colorado too. Yep.

[00:06:30] Black Bart's treasure, right? It came to the winds. Uh, little stuff here and there just sprinkled around that South park culture definitely holds true to the state. Mm-hmm. Um, oh, here's another one. You, you drive a Subaru Jeep or 4Runner and if you don't, you kind of wish you did.

[00:06:47] You know, I've always thought like, I've more than once described Coloradans as, uh, an environmentally friendly bunch who drive, um, inefficient, uh, trucks all up and down the mountains. That is true. Yeah. We can just be real here for a minute. That is true. Environmentally friendly until, until it comes to the gas. Until it comes time to drive all around these remarkable landscapes.

[00:07:13] I think my Jeep, and I do a lot of city driving, but I think my Jeep gets like 15 miles a gallon or something ridiculously low like that. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. You know, man, you know, the real Coloradans are out where, you know, I was in, I was in Lamar recently. Right. Mm-hmm. And it's like, that's where you see, you know, real color cowboy boots and cowboy hat. Yeah. You know, for sure. The guys who built this state, the people who built this state, you know. Oh, for sure. Ranching.

[00:07:42] Ranching. It's a ranching state. Yeah. You get in those small towns and I mean, you do have the Wild West vibes. For sure. Oh yeah. We'll talk about that too. Yeah. We'll talk about Wild West vibes. We had a thought about that. Might as well dive in then. What's, what's your top Wild West vibes town in Colorado? I did think about this. All right. What do you got? Yeah. And well, cause I told you mine already. Yep. So you can't steal mine. Right. What do you got? And so, you know, I think like a lot of people think mountains, right? Mountains, mountains. Yeah. I do go without the T, don't I? Yeah, you do. We all do.

[00:08:12] That's why we're true Coloradans. Just like I hear people in Lahuna knocking down the T in Lahuna. Mm-hmm. And I am looking out on the plains around Lahuna for Wild West. Well, you know, it makes sense. People think mountains and I love Leadville for sure. I mean, how do you not feel Wild West in Leadville? How do you not feel Wild West in Victor, right? By Cripple Creek. I always think like, I mean, that place. I mean, you still see the mining, you know, gallows as I call them. The A-frames all around. Oh, yeah.

[00:08:42] I mean. Yeah, and Leadville's classic, but yeah, Lahuna, that's an interesting pick. And I mean, you know, it makes sense now that you kind of mentioned that. So like, and let me orient, like in Trinidad, right? We'll just go straight south to Trinidad. If you go east and northeast, right through those plains, I mean, you're talking a landscape largely unchanged where you still can see those wagon tracks scouring some of that landscape. Dang.

[00:09:10] You know, and I mean, where you get to Benzel Fort? That's what I was going to mention in Otero County. Yeah. Southeastern Colorado. Yep. Outside Lahuna there, where, you know, there's that trading post that's that reminder, or it's the reminder, it's a rebuilt, right? Reminder of the trading post that was in the 1830s, where, you know, trappers and native people and Spanish people and military kind of converged at times over the years, where,

[00:09:39] I mean, I kind of found, I found it kind of haunting how you, you can look at those cottonwoods over the Arkansas River, and you see the line of the Mexican-American line that was fought over for much of the West, right? Like, talk about Wild West. Yeah. I mean, it's just right there. That's true. Even venture further to the Sand Creek Massacre site, where, I mean, we're recalling another violent, dark, real chapter of the Wild West, right?

[00:10:09] I mean, that stuff kind of comes to mind to me, man. You know, I mean, and then west of Trinidad, the other side of Trinidad, where you go on Highway of Legends through that very much intact Spanish history throughout there, where you could drop into the San Luis Valley, into San Luis, the oldest town in Colorado. Yeah, I mean, that's wild, right? All right, all right. I'm impressed. So a little different, but... Well, and even thinking about old Ben's Fort, or Ben's Old Fort, right?

[00:10:37] I watched that American Primeval TV show on Netflix recently. It's kind of like Wild West-y. Yeah. A bit gory, but yeah, I watched it. It was entertaining for sure. But yeah, Ben's Old Fort, it starts kind of at this fort that's just out on the plains, just kind of a mixing of all cultures of just people trying to survive out there. Yeah. And that, you know, it's reminiscent of perhaps what life would have been like at Ben's Old Fort. I think they call it the castle on the plains. Yeah.

[00:11:07] Yeah. Yeah. Or just imagine where you're traveling that endless ocean, and then all of a sudden you see that place like, whoa, what is that? Yeah, right. Just endless ocean of plains. Yeah. And absolutely crucial for the early development of Colorado as a state, too, just making it feasible to have, you know, an economy. But very much mining, too. Yeah. Mining, too. I mean, why else do we look into the mountains for Wild West? Of course. Because of the mining economies, right? Yeah. Very true. Which is where we place you, right?

[00:11:36] Oh, yeah. Yeah. So my pick is Silverton. Yeah. Which, I mean, maybe that's a bit of a gimme answer in a sense where, you know, I mean, it screams Wild West. Oh, my gosh. You got the old historic train going into town. Yes. You got wagons being pulled by horses on the street, maybe for show. The train going right through town, for sure. Oh, yeah. And you got like what? Yeah. People live in that town or something like that. Yeah. And it just, I mean, it's out there. It's remote. Mm-hmm.

[00:12:05] There's essentially, you know, two roads into town. And during some of those, you know, if there's rock fall in the spring or big snow that comes through, it just cuts the town off. Yeah. And you can't go anywhere. And also, Animus Forks is there, that ghost town. I've never gone up to that. Oh, yeah. It's cool. It's probably like four miles up the road. Yeah. And I was out there for a work trip. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:28] And I was out there for a lot of years ago at this point.

[00:12:58] Highly, highly recommend that for a summer activity, for sure. Well, and in Silverton, is it the notorious Blair Street, right? Right there. Those buildings reminiscent of the red light district. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And all the buildings in Silverton, they've really hung on to that, like, historic Wild West. Victorian. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Also, I think it's Handlebars or Handlebars Saloon or something in Silverton. Great place for Rocky Mountain oysters to go back to that. Boy, there's a...

[00:13:27] Maybe the only time I've ever actually been like, yeah, this is edible. Like, this is good. Well, speaking of edible, there's like a... Gosh, what's the name? There's a restaurant, I think in fairly recent years, that's come up in Silverton, and it was super good. Yeah. If you see the name of it. All those mountain towns have good food for sure. They always close early, though. Going back to that trip I was just talking about while you're hunting that one down, I

[00:13:53] think part of what gave me such a good, like, Wild West vibe in Silverton was, you know, driving in kind of like, you know, like seven, eight at night, sun setting, going in on the million dollar highway from Uray. Yeah. And then getting into town, staying at a little tiny, like, hotel with maybe like three rooms, you know. You got like the keys still. It's not like a card. It's like a key attached to like a wooden block so it doesn't get lost. Yeah. Check into the room.

[00:14:22] It's like, at this point, it's like eight or 805, as I learned would kind of play a key part in the story. They go out looking for food. Nothing's open. Nothing. Nothing past eight. Someone ended up making me, like, I think it was like a Hot Pocket or something. Something dumb like that in like the back of like a bar where there were just some employees hanging out playing pool. Yep. And yeah, it was like, so they were like, oh yeah, there's no food at all, but I guess we're going to make you this.

[00:14:49] And I literally just walked around until I heard people talking and I was like, what do people do for food here? Yeah. After eight, I'm starving and everything is closed. Yeah. What's the saloon there in Uray? Same thing. Yeah. I went through there right around that hour and had to settle for what might have been a Tostino's frozen pizza at the saloon there, whatever. It's part of the experience. But either way, I mean, it's funny too, because you think about that and like the infrastructure in these towns in terms of that, like with the lack of food, it's like even going back

[00:15:19] to Ben's Old Fort, like imagine how it was back in the Wild West days when there was literally just nothing for miles and miles of wagon trail. But where do you find the name of that? Eureka Station. Eureka Station in Silverton. I had some killer meatloaf from there once upon a time. That sounds really good, actually. Yeah. Yeah. You find, I mean, a lot of these, a lot of these mountain towns, like they might not have a lot of restaurants and they might not be open late, but generally it's always really good food. Especially in like the resort. Yeah. You know. Yeah.

[00:15:49] That's for sure. Well, and even like places like Salida, like I always love the food I get in Salida. I think last time it was that Moonlight Pizza place or Moonlight Brewery Pizza or whatever it is. Very good pizza. Very, very good. Yeah. Brown Dog Pizza is awesome. And I mean, I'm a fan of the kind of that, like that Detroit style, like caramelized crust. Yeah. Yeah. Ooh. Yeah. Brown Dog, definitely a must.

[00:16:18] And it's reasonably priced too. Like pretty sure that pizzas were, you know, like in that, like I might be totally wrong here, but I remember it didn't feel like paying an armadillo. I think pizzas were like in that $15 range. I think a pitcher of beer was like 15 bucks too or something. So yeah. Whenever you can find that good food in a mountain town, it is a good food. Absolutely. Silverton for sure. Wild West. No doubt. Oh yeah. No doubt. And also, so also kind of to jump to another topic that you teased earlier, also in Southwest Colorado.

[00:16:48] Mm-hmm. Party going on at a, at a ski resort there. Yeah. Tell us about it. I mean, you don't hear that often about multimillion dollar upgrades at a little municipal ski hill, right? Where the kids learn and the kids out of school go and train, you know, kind of one of those little places. Right? Mm-hmm. But that's what's happened at Chapman Hill in Durango. Right?

[00:17:18] A little 500 foot hill that goes back to, gosh, is it the 50s, I think, when Chapman Hill came about? Oh, 70-year-old Chapman Hill. And for long, it had been operating on like these two rope toes, man. And one of them was referred to big toe and little toe, right? And the big toe was brought over from around Camp Hale. Oh, nice. 10th Mountain Division training. Yeah.

[00:17:47] It had been there. They'd been keeping this thing going for decades and decades. From World War II era training equipment. Yeah. Yeah. So kind of scary to think about. Yeah. That's pretty wild. And I mean, Chapman Hill, I would imagine a lot of the people listening to this probably haven't even heard of Chapman Hill. Yeah. For sure. I mean, and obviously Durango, home to Purgatory. Yep. So that one probably gets more attention than Chapman Hill does. It's much larger and more of that resort field. Yep. And Telluride, right?

[00:18:17] In that region, you know, those are the big resorts that you're talking about. Very true. But Chapman Hill, I mean, I would imagine countless locals have learned to ski there. Yeah. Like, and yeah. Yeah, that's exactly right. How much is a ticket? 16 bucks. 16 bucks. Yeah. For an adult, you know. Good deal. Can't beat that, right? So now Big Toe is a Leitner Poma platter lift, right? So where you can straddle the thing and get up. And, you know, for a lot of people, as the city was describing to me, it's just a lot more friendly, right?

[00:18:46] I mean, still not your chairlift. But come on, can you really rationalize a chairlift on 500 vertical, you know? Well, and reading the numbers here from your piece, it says 701 season passes have been sold up from 554. In the parched southwest. Yeah. And then also, what's it? So 1,510 daily tickets were sold through the end of January. So and that's the entire month of January? Through the season that started in December. Oh, oh, through. Oh, okay.

[00:19:16] So they've had. Two months. Yeah. So that's, I mean, 1,500 tickets. I mean, you can imagine how many tickets get sold at a place like, you know, Breckenridge or something. Right. Yes. Chapman started in 1955. 1955. Yeah. So just that long tradition. And they upgraded the lighting, right? There's kind of a night skiing tradition there, of course. Like I said, people, kids after school. Yeah, that's got to be great. Yeah. What a nice little amenity, right? And Durango kind of put the money where the mouth is, if you will, and said, all right,

[00:19:44] we want to keep this place going. So they put in a few million, as they told me, for two new tows here and the lighting and they adjusted the snowmaking and they kind of rearranged the alignment of those lifts to where kind of the terrain's a little more opened up now. Oh, nice. Yeah. So, and yeah, it's just, you know, I kind of thought it was a neat little thing where you don't, I mean, so many of these places have just come and gone, right?

[00:20:10] I mean, here in Colorado Springs, someone might think of Ski Broadmoor, Ski Icemoor, as it was called. Partly explaining why it was never meant to last. Yeah, that'd be hard to have a ski area in Colorado Springs. But man, don't you think people would hit it? I mean, I would definitely check it out. I don't pretend to know the economics of it. Yeah, right. That's my question. It was 69 degrees last week. Right. Right. For a day. You know. In the middle of January.

[00:20:40] Your season could get wrecked right there. Yeah. I mean, yeah, the snow melts. That's got to be a lot of upkeep just to have those runs going. But yeah, I mean, Durango, though. I mean, it's probably a little warmer. But it's kind of interesting. Like, I mean, it's like little ski hills like Chapman that really are the roots of skiing in Colorado. I mean, Hallison Hill. Exactly. Steamboat. Yeah. That was the first ski area. 33 or something was when it opened. Yeah. 1933 or something crazy like that. Yeah.

[00:21:10] Very. Yeah. That makes sense. I mean, you got these local hills. That just shows how ingrained ski culture is in Colorado's history just because it is one of those like family activities. You know, after school, if you're in a mountain town, you can go to that. Well, and to have fun in the winter. Right. I mean, for so long, winter was dreaded until these communities started building up. And, you know, certain people said, let's have fun with the snow. Right. I mean, that's kind of the heart of skiing right there.

[00:21:36] The soul of skiing is what someone called that when referring to little places like Chapman Hill. Yeah. And you see one, you know, like, little, like, Ure has a little hill there. I can't remember the name of it. Gunnison every now and then, I think, aims to open their little hill called Cranor, maybe? Um. And there's one out west even. Is it in Grand Junction or Mesa? Hmm. Maybe? It's not Powderhorn. I'm not thinking that.

[00:22:03] But there was another one where it's like, yeah, a little, like, free sled and tubing hill type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool stuff. Yeah. And Durango. I mean, Durango's been popping off just in recent years. Recent years. I mean, it's always been great. But, yeah, I mean, even like Outdoor Media Summit, it's like an outdoor media convention, but they just announced they'll be in Durango next fall for their annual convention. I should try to go to that. Yeah, it's cool. It's cool. Because I haven't spent much time in Durango. Yeah. I really haven't. Yeah, Durango. I mean, Durango's great. Yeah.

[00:22:33] And I mean, I haven't spent much time there either, but passing through. But you just constantly hear good stuff about Durango. And the hot springs there. Yep. Durango Hot Springs. That was a big investment in recent years. Big investment there. About another million, millions of dollars going into that. Yep. And I've heard great things about that spot, too. There's the example of Hesperus, that ski area. Another long-going, you know, you could kind of call it that middle ground between Chapman and Purgatory. Yeah. You know, essentially. That's fair. But Hesperus has been closed for two seasons now, right? Yeah.

[00:23:03] From what I understand to be financial questions, you know, is this, what is the real financial picture of this place? You know, does this really make sense, right? Yeah. And so, yeah, maybe it's, one word is refreshing. It's refreshing to see a place like Chapman Hill still going, where a lot of these other places that have long relied on, again, kind of this infrastructure. When it goes, a lot of these ski areas have gone.

[00:23:27] Because let's be real, this is the age of mega resorts in consolidation, you know, since the 60s. Yeah. That's where it's all gone. Yeah. Right? That's true. So, um. Cool to see the city supporting it, too. Yep. Just like kind of ingraining, like, we're going to make outdoor recreation a priority. This is what we stand for. You know? Yeah. We want our kids learning to ski, and we want something for teens after school. You know? They can go and work on racing, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Oh, yeah. That would be a neat thing. Big news.

[00:23:55] A place where, if I'm recalling right, like, the son or grandson of the guy who started this place in 1955, you know, still works the snowcat, you know? Oh, dang it. That's awesome. Yeah. You know? Like, it's just kind of that rootsy place. Well, there you go. Yeah. So, another kind of attraction that locals are probably very familiar with, but on a greater statewide scale, people tend to miss. Out of my list to bring up today was Skyline Drive. Yeah.

[00:24:25] Down in Canyon City. Have you ever driven that road? I did. Yep. Yeah. So, it's only about, like, two and a half miles long or so, but it stretches above Canyon City. It's one lane. It's extremely narrow, and there's, like, 500-foot drop-offs on each side of this road. Yep. Pretty wild little trip. Last time I did it, I was on my motorcycle, and it was extremely windy that day, like, to the point where boxes are, like, flying in the air around Canyon City. Get up on that ridge. You know, you can't hear anything.

[00:24:55] Just getting blasted by the wind and just, yeah, almost getting blown over, literally. And, yeah, it's a trip. It's a cool little sketchy road that is worth checking out. And, I mean, it's well-maintained and everything. And it was actually kind of the thing that maybe – there's two things that really fascinate me about the road, one of which is that it was built by local inmates. Have you heard that? Ah, yeah. I'm vaguely recall – I was hoping you could jog my memory on a lot of this history.

[00:25:23] Yeah, I think it was built, like, 1906, I want to say. And I don't have it pulled up right now. But, essentially, the local inmates were given – I believe it was 10 days off their sentence for every 30 days they worked on the road. Huh. So, kind of an interesting way that that was constructed. Obviously, Canyon City, known for its – or that whole area, I guess, known for its prison industry. There's a museum of jails there, I think, too, which apparently is worth checking out. I've heard that.

[00:25:52] Yeah, I've heard it's cool. I think they do, like, a haunted tour around Halloween, maybe, too. And that might be something worth checking out. Obviously, months away. But then the other thing that fascinates me about this road is that there's, like, dinosaur. I was going to say. It's right on it. Be sure you're looking to your – so, if you go in off 50, as if you're going to the Royal Gorge, you'll be driving up. I'm recalling that gate or kind of that overhang-looking thing. Yeah. And it's going to be, you know, on your left. Yeah. There pretty quick.

[00:26:22] There's a sign, too. But you could miss – is there? Yeah, at least now there's a sign, I think. Because I feel like I might have missed it my first time going up. Well, I think they're ankylosaurus, I want to say, which I believe is – here, we'll pull it up. I remember driving up and realizing I missed it. And fortunately, there was kind of a little pull-off where I could pull off, and I was able to walk back down the road. At a place where you could walk down to see those tracks and then also take a little trail more up. Yeah. Yeah, there's something up there. That's the other thing about the road.

[00:26:52] Like, you can, you know, stretch your legs and get some amazing views for sure. Yeah, there is a little parking area. It's like there isn't anywhere to pull off. Yeah, right. There's one. There's few and far between, yeah. Great views. I mean, I've always loved Canyon City. But yeah, they were underrated. Ankylosaurus dinosaur, which is the one with, like, the armored shell and then the tail. Got it. It kind of, like, whips back and forth with, like – That's their prints on there? Yeah, the, like, hammer tail or whatever you want to call it. But yeah, so pretty cool. And also funny about that, I don't think the dinosaur footprints – someone might correct

[00:27:22] me on this, but if I remember correctly, the dinosaur footprints weren't found until, like, 1980 or something. I think it was, like, 90s, dude. The 90s, yeah. Yeah. So it was, like, after the road was constructed, someone was like, huh, those are dinosaur footprints. But yeah, definitely worth checking out. I love going down to Canyon City. There's that little winery there that's pretty worth visiting, I would say. Obviously, the Royal Gorge. Yeah. And there's good food in Canyon City.

[00:27:51] The trail revolution there has been really amazing. Yeah, that too. Yeah. No doubt. Yeah, and that Royal Gorge area and, like, the oil well flats. Yep. Very cool outdoor recreation spot. Obviously, you got Shelf Road. Yep. Access from Canyon City. Something like 1,000 bolted climbing routes in that area. Don't know for sure, but I just heard today that apparently a climbing gym is opening up. Oh, nice. It's a good call. Canyon City is cool for a climbing gym, no doubt. That's a good call. Yeah, it's, I mean, 45 minutes away from Colorado Springs.

[00:28:18] I'm honestly surprised it's not more of a talked about town just because it's like, that's totally possible to do a commute to Colorado Springs from Canyon City if you really wanted to do that. Yeah. Like, especially if you're hybrid schedule, you know, working a couple days a week. And it's easy. And it's a beautiful drive. I've always looked around and thought, you know, this has got all the ingredients of Salida, right? Yeah. Probably everyone, you know, longtime folks in Canyon City. Yeah. Those are fighting words, I might guess, you know? Well, maybe. Because Canyon City is great for its laid back, you know?

[00:28:46] Not saying Salida is not laid back, but, you know, it's built up. It's busy, right? Canyon City is not, I wouldn't say, busy. Yeah. Yeah, I see how it looks in 15 years, you know? It's funny, too, because I always pop on just to see what the real estate's like down there. And it's, you know, it's about two-thirds of the cost of Colorado Springs, with Colorado Springs being less than Denver, even. And so it's like, yeah, pretty cool spot. And it's like all those little downtown blocks, you know, just walkable. And yeah, I mean, Canyon City, I'm surprised it's not popping off more.

[00:29:15] I had to double check it was still open. Thank goodness it is. It's a decades-old tradition where you've got to stop and grab a burger at the Owl Cigar Store. Are you familiar with the Owl? I have never heard of the Owl Cigar Store. Walk in there and you feel like, yep, right on the main street, you feel like you're, you know, in the 50s, maybe 60s. Huh. I think it started in the 40s or 50s. Do they sell cigars? Nope. I think it was. Yeah. Interesting marketing.

[00:29:46] Since 1943 is what I'm seeing. I did a story on it. But yeah, dude, I think like the burger was like $4. It's cheaper than McDonald's. And it's awesome. Did they sell cigars at one point? Yes. Okay. It was a cigar store and then bought by, I want to say some brothers who turned it into a burger joint or a bar. That's pretty funny. A bar. I think it was initially a bar. A lot of confused people probably going in expecting cigars and not finding them. You got burgers. You got shakes. It's just Americana right there, man. Oh, yeah.

[00:30:16] This bar looks like classic little like dive bar style thing. Yes. You got the little bar stools with the booze and wooden shelves behind it. Yeah, that's cool. Still the same family since the 1940s. Let's see what the website looks like. Is there a website? There is not a website. So you know it's awesome. Took me to Facebook. This is how you know you're coming on a secret. Burgers and shakes, as I'm recalling. Oh, yeah. Here's the menu, which this was posted in May of 2020.

[00:30:44] So guessing that prices have increased as they have many places around the country. But it says hamburger, $2.50. Cheeseburger, $2.75. Yes. Pretty good. When I was there, I went back and looked at the story. This was 2023. How is $3 for a burger possible these days? Okay, $4.25 if you go for the suggested double-double. Yeah. Double-double egg. $4.25 for the double-double. With egg on it, it says here, too. Interesting. There were pool tables in the back for sure still.

[00:31:14] French fries, $1.85. There you go. Dang. I didn't see just those old bar stools, you know? Yeah. That's classic, man. Yeah, you got to go. I don't want to go here like right now. That sounds delicious. I would drive 45 minutes for a $2.50 burger. You could do a great day trip in Canyon City, no doubt. But it's got to involve the owl. Yeah. Okay. I'll add it to my list next time. Hey, and Royal Gorge is cool, too. They also have the train that goes through the bottom of Royal Gorge, you know? Yep. I've never done that. I've always wanted to. But the videos look beautiful from it.

[00:31:41] But the Royal Gorge attraction with the gondola, the Via Ferrata there is supposed to be good. Maybe you put the Via Ferrata on the bucket list for the summer. Got to pay up for that, as I'm recalling. Via Ferrata and the owl. Yeah. Perfect day. And Skyline Drive. Speaking of scary roads, and as we're kind of going back to Skyline Drive here, one of the questions that we get asked a lot by people that are visiting Colorado, and you'll hear

[00:32:06] this pop up all the time, but it's why are there not more guardrails on all these sketchy roads around Colorado? And it is one of those things where it's like you kind of get used to it in Colorado, but there just not being guardrails. But think of the Million Dollar Highway, where it's like, I don't know, 600, 700 foot drop off, and there's no guardrail. Yep.

[00:32:27] Same thing with our video producer, Tim, brought up Mount Blue Sky Road, another one, notoriously kind of sketchy. And I haven't been up there since I've done repairs, but I remember for a while that road was just like this wavy, wobbly-ness right next to a drop-off, and you got all these tourists probably coming into Denver and being like, oh, what's the top attraction near me? Yep. Mount Blue Sky Road. I always think about that.

[00:32:55] And they go up there, and it's just a drop-off with wildlife on the road. Yeah. And yeah, I mean... What's scarier? Blue Sky or Pike's Peak? I thought Blue Sky. Yeah. Hands down. Yeah. Pike's Peak always felt to me. I hear people say different... I've driven both, and I just... What would you say? I don't know. Because it's been long enough, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think... I mean, the thing for me, I guess, with Mount Blue Sky is when I did that, I climbed that peak a while back, so this is probably eight years ago, and I know they've invested a lot in improving that road.

[00:33:24] So, like I said, haven't been on it since the repairs came in, but I remember just... I'm used to driving on mountain roads, and I remember being on that road and just seeing kind of the edge crumbling, in a sense, and just feeling like, you know, for once, kind of get in the other lane a little bit, just in case. And yeah, I think they've repaired it, but I've always thought that Pike's Peak Road was pretty... Tame? Yeah, it's pretty tame. It's well-maintained. It's wide. Traffic moves so slow on it.

[00:33:54] Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's also like, when you're going up it, it looks like you're kind of just driving into eternity, in a sense. Yeah. But when you're going down, the drop-offs don't look quite as bad. Yeah. I guess I should say. And I mean, it is... So, doing the Ascent every year, they put you in the buses to go down the road after. And that feels a little squirrely sometimes. Being in the bus. Being in a normal car, normal vehicle. Yeah.

[00:34:23] It feels fairly safe, I would say. So, could you argue the million-dollar highway is scarier? I mean, the consequences on the million-dollar highway are just so apparent. In terms of like... Consequences the same, vertical, not the same. Yeah. I mean, in terms of uphill and downhill. Yeah. Just ever-present nature of just being flanked on that side. Yeah. Just with a massive drop-off and around the winding curves.

[00:34:53] You know, I would say... Yeah. I would say, you know, that's... It's definitely... Most drivers will take note of that, we'll say. Yeah. But I would say, in terms of heavily-traveled roads that are kind of sketchy, just even by design, would be Independence Pass for me. Mm-hmm. Because there are some of those blind turns on there, and they don't even have enough room to, you know, put striping in the middle. Mm-hmm. So you're kind of going around some of those like almost blind turns leaving Aspen.

[00:35:23] Mm-hmm. And yeah, I mean, it feels pretty sketchy in that regard. Some trucks aren't even allowed on it, just depending on their length, just because it's so narrow and winding. Yeah. Man, it's interesting. I've driven like Cottonwood Pass a bunch, but I feel like I'm always the passenger over Independence Pass. Yeah, I've never... I've never driven Independence. Yeah, and I've never felt sketchy on Cottonwood Pass either. No. I would say that one's nice. Yeah. Nice pave all the way. Yeah. Obviously, they close these roads down whenever winter hits a lot of the time.

[00:35:53] Like Independence Pass closes. Cottonwood Pass closes. Yeah. Million Dollar Highway does not, though. Right. So just like we were talking with Silverton, it's one of the two routes into Silverton and regularly does close down during snowy periods or rock fall incidences. Mm-hmm. I think that's one of those things, too, that people tend to overlook a little bit. And I mean, I don't think I've... I don't know. In the 10 years I've been... Or eight years I've been without there, I don't think I've ever covered a rock fall

[00:36:21] death in Colorado on one of those roads. Mm-hmm. I might be wrong. But still, it's one of those hazards that's just there, you know? Mm-hmm. Wrong place, wrong time type of thing. Avalanche. Yeah. But yeah, back to guardrails, though. So if you had to guess, Seth, why would you say there are not more guardrails around Colorado? I'm pretty sure I know. Okay. What do you got? It's for clear and snow. Yeah. So that's actually... And this is from a report from Hannah Stoll. Is that incorrect? Yeah.

[00:36:51] So it's a misconception. Okay. From Hannah Stoll, former rider without their Colorado, back from 2020. March 2nd, 2020, actually. So like literally two weeks before the pandemic. Mm-hmm. Okay. Really started shutting stuff down. Enlighten me. But yeah, so what she's reporting essentially is that that's a very common misconception. Huh. The quote from Zane... I have not pronounced his name before. Zanamanak?

[00:37:21] Mm-hmm. I probably said that wrong. I'm sorry, Zane. Cool name. But at the time, maybe he might still be in the position, but CDOT's traffic and safety engineer in Northwest Colorado. Mm-hmm. The quote from him was that we do not put ease of maintenance over safety of traveling for the public. So essentially, he's saying that it's not because of snow removal. Maybe it does help with snow removal. But essentially, what he says is that a lot of times these roads can be so narrow that

[00:37:50] the guardrails can actually kind of be a hazard in themselves. Oh, I've heard that too. Yeah. Where they're closer to the road and it's something you can hit right on the road. Oh. So that is actually a larger reason behind not adding that. So a lot of times, they'll try to do rumble strips first or striping first. And I mean, sometimes, you know, the roads are just too narrow for a guardrail where there's not enough stable ground to have... Just not feasible. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:17] And I mean, if you put a guardrail on ground that can't support a car hitting it, you know, then maybe that's... That makes sense. You know, it's just a more dangerous scenario. The positive side effect, though, that he mentioned here is that because there's no guardrails, and this is not intended, but it is a positive side effect, because there's no guardrails, people tend to drive safer. Huh. So kind of an interesting scenario there where you have less speeders just because there's that obvious danger right there. Interesting.

[00:38:46] The psychology of highway safety. Yeah. And his quote is, while we would not purposely omit guardrail with... Or a guardrail with the hopes that motorists might drive more cautiously in an area, it further reinforces the idea that guardrails should only be placed when they actually contribute to roadway safety. So yeah, so kind of interesting. Yeah. I always thought it was the snow, too. And I mean, like I said, I'm sure it makes it easier if you can just push the snow off. Yeah. But opposed to having that guardrail blocking it from getting off the road.

[00:39:16] But yeah, kind of a little bit more insight into that answer. That's always something that people from out of state, when they come visit, you know, it's like they don't even want to sit in the passenger seat in the vehicle sometimes. Because they just like, they're like, oh, how close are we to this road? And it's like, or how close are we to this edge? It's like, no, we're in the lane as intended. But... Well, very good. I get enlightened on our own podcast. Learning things every day. That's great. And you are about to enlighten me a bit on some President's Day content. Oh, yeah. We're going to end on some President's Day? Yeah, we do.

[00:39:45] Happy President's Day, everybody. Or a little bit of Fisher's Peak, too. Or we can say Fisher's Peak for next week if we want. Tease for next one? Tease for next week. So we'll be talking about some exciting things. That's more related to next year anyway, so... But anyway. But yeah, President's Day. Tell us about it, Seth. An interesting connection to a president in Colorado. I was just like refreshing all my memory on what the presidential connections are to Colorado's outdoors, right? And we could just go right on through here. I mean, Abraham Lincoln, right? Namesake of Mount Lincoln. Mm-hmm.

[00:40:14] And the interesting little story there is, as I understand it, miners, you know, for that mountain getting named for a Republican, hence we got the name Mount Democrat among miners protesting that name, as I heard it told. Interesting. Nearby Mount Democrat, right? Yeah. Do-do-do-do-do. I got one that I like. Yeah. A lot. So the teddy bear. You know that with Theodore Roosevelt, right?

[00:40:40] The teddy bear name is said to come from Colorado for like, you know, little teddy bear stuffed animals. Yep. With a hunting trip that Roosevelt was doing in, I want to say Glenwood Springs. Right, yep. That's where he made base. Yeah. In Glenwood Springs, yep. So kind of an interesting connection there. In 1905, he went on that bear hunt. A big male. I think he journaled of his prize. A big male weighing 330 pounds. Well, there you go. And apparently he was sick as they tromped through the mountains hunting.

[00:41:10] Where you go, Teddy? I feel like Peter Roosevelt's like, yeah. He's no teddy bear. He embodies that toughness whenever you hear people tell stories about him. And then staying with Glenwood, William Howard Taft stayed at Glenwood Springs and was famously quoted for politely turning down a soak in the hot springs. I found it's much better for a man of my size not to bathe in public. That's interesting. I think he also lost quite a bit of weight later in his life, right? Really?

[00:41:39] You always hear the story about him, how he got stuck in a bathtub, right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the stories. But yeah, he lost 59 pounds between December of 1905 and 1906, according to Harvard. Good for him. But apparently it was a struggle that he didn't have his whole life. But used a low-carb diet. So maybe a pioneer of the low-carb diet. Hoover was known to fish around Colorado. Oh, nice. Gunnison River in 1939.

[00:42:09] He placed himself in his book there. Makes sense. They stayed in Hotel Belvedere in Montrose. Ooh. Very cool. I wonder if that's still around. Well, and so I think around the same era, right? But you have something about a destination that you can actually hike to in Colorado that has some presidential ties. Mount Falcon Open Space. They're kind of around Morrison area. Very popular open space. And a very popular trail. That's the Castle Trail.

[00:42:38] Which, as I'm recalling, rises about three miles. Good little workout. And you arrive kind of at this great scenic overlook where there's crumbled foundations and a cornerstone marking 1911. Which was the doomed construction date of this summer White House, as it was called. Also called the Castle in the Sky, as it was envisioned. And yeah, indeed, meant to be.

[00:43:07] Woodrow Wilson was president starting in 1913. So maybe he would have been the first to take advantage of it. But yeah, it never came to be. Funding fell short as World War I loomed. But yeah, the remains are still there. You can still hike to those ruins and try to picture what that might have been like.

[00:43:32] And the idea behind it was essentially creating a summer home for presidents to enjoy the mountains of Colorado. White House of the West. Yeah, and it was pioneered by John Brisbane Walker. You pointed out, you recognize his name. It was a guy who, he bought Red Rocks Amphitheater at one point. He kind of raised Red Rocks to what it would be? Yeah. Is that right? So I think he played a pretty big role in that, at least.

[00:43:57] Yeah, because Red Rocks has some fascinating history behind it in general, just with how many centuries there have been. Yeah. Things going on kind of in those, between those two monoliths. Yeah. Like that sort of, you know, stage scenario. Yeah. I think he might have been, maybe was one of the people that added like a more formal stage. Don't quote me on that at all whatsoever. But he was one of the people involved in Red Rocks in the early 1900s for sure.

[00:44:26] We got Ford, of course. I think a lot of people are familiar with Ford's presence in Vail. Yeah. You know, he very much loved Vail. Yeah. Him and his wife. Not to be confused with Ford Amphitheater in the Springs, because there's an amphitheater named after that. People do confuse that, though. Yeah. What is it called? What's the Vail one called exactly? Gerald Ford. Gerald R. Ford. What was his initial name? Ford Amphitheater. Yeah. I know.

[00:44:52] When the venue here settled on Ford, I was like, someone's going to drive to Vail. Uh-huh. And I did see a headline. Someone drove to Vail. Oh, yeah. I think so, yeah. Yeah. Originally, it was going to be called the Sunset Amphitheater until... Ford the company and bought their naming rights. So... Yep. It looks like it's Ford for at least, I think it's a 10-year deal, maybe. But, yeah, kind of... That was what I thought of, too. I was like, isn't that already an amphitheater in Colorado? Right. My head went right there. Yeah.

[00:45:21] It looks like they're trying to rebrand on their website as The Amp now. Or at least that's the tile page. So... The one in Vail. Not the one in Colorado Springs. Really? You'd think the one in Colorado Springs would have to adjust. Yeah, right? Throwing their weight around. Yeah. This was maybe a good one to end on, man. Also, Eisenhower has some outdoorsy roots here. I guess there's a bronze statue of him near a pond in Fraser in northern Colorado, where

[00:45:49] he was known to retreat and fish. Yeah. I saw here. He would also take the former... Yeah. Apparently, he brought Hoover there, too. Well, hey. Two angler-in-chiefs. And also, the Eisenhower Tunnel, right? Which is actually the Eisenhower-Johnson Memorial Tunnels. But people only call it the Eisenhower Tunnel. I wonder why people drop the Johnson. Huh. That's one for another podcast. Yeah.

[00:46:18] I can't drop the Johnson. He needs credit, too. But, yeah. I love this quote from Eisenhower in his autobiography. He explained his love for the ranch out in... Yeah. So, he also had a ranch in Pine. Yeah. I'm reading here. Also a beautiful part of the state. That the native Texan loved enough to make Denver his campaign headquarters. Dang. If you recall. Yep. So, anyway. He explained his love for that property. He said,

[00:46:44] I found it advisable and at times essential to seek periods of relaxation and recreation away from Washington. Hmm. Very cool. Kind of nice. Yeah. That's a nice little ending out there. We should all find such reprieve away from Washington. Yeah. We do live in a beautiful state. We sure do. Can't take it for granted at all. That's right. Most beautiful place in the country, in my opinion. But, yeah. That's about all we got for you today. So, look forward to that long weekend.

[00:47:12] Hopefully, y'all are getting President's Day off and can enjoy some of that snow that's about to fall. Boy. Yeah. Yeah. Until next time, we will see you out there. See you out there, folks. Bye.