Scariest road; Tragic death of a MTBr; Roads blocked to non-residents?; Trail project in the San Juans; Bear encounters; & More

[00:00:05] Welcome to another episode of the The OutThere Colorado Podcast. Once again, I'm Spencer here with Seth. Hello. We got Tim over there in the booth doing the audio and the video for today. And once again, a lot of fun Colorado topics and a lot of news actually too. Just kind of all over the place today. That's what we do best, man. Yeah, we took Monday off so we got plenty to talk about. Yes. But before we do that, how was your weekend, Seth? We're going all the way back to the weekend. Yeah, of course.

[00:00:34] I'm trying to remember what I did this weekend. It's been a while. I think I had a good time. You've been traveling a bit lately, right? Yeah, I was just... Around the state? Yeah, I mean, you know, I was in Glenwood a while ago. Let's see, what did I do over the weekend? Oh, I kind of hiked around Section 16 here in Colorado Springs as people know it. Went to GoPatch. Yeah, nice. Brewery. Kept it pretty low key. Yeah, same here. Yeah, ended up at good company.

[00:01:05] Oh, yeah. The coffee. Yeah, no, no, good company. It's a bar, a live music bar. Got it. It's kind of up... North side. Yeah, yeah, kind of up in that area. It was really fun. Saw a band play, was there celebrating my girlfriend's mom's birthday. Cool. But we saw, they're friends with the guitarist of a band and they're called Otis and the Apostles. And I found out the Apostles name is because all the other names are like names of the Apostles from the Bible. Oh.

[00:01:34] The band is the Bible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's kind of creative there. But they were really good, man. They played Comfortably Numb and ripped that guitar solo and it was awesome. Love a little Pink Floyd. Yeah, man. But yeah. So that was a great time. I also posted a video of me stuck in a cave that went semi-vivalent. Dude, my wife showed me that. And she's like, I don't think you're going to be podcasting with Spencer anytime soon. He's stuck in a cave.

[00:01:59] Yeah, it's like two minutes of me like panicking underground. Did not expect the traction that it has got. Did he get a lot? Yeah. It's up at like 250,000 views or so. People have a lot of... A lot of comments too. All across the board. Yeah. Yeah. No, I couldn't watch the full thing, dude. Yeah. You know, I love you too much, man. I couldn't watch it. Well, I make it out. So... Yeah, thank goodness. That's the punchline. But yeah, that's a... I was like, dang, no more cake for Spencer.

[00:02:29] Yeah, I kind of just like posted that and was like, oh, this is a fun video. And then all of a sudden it was just like hundreds of comments rolling in like, what is this guy doing? Like, I was like... A lot of mean comments. Yeah. But you were safe, as we know. My skin is tough. I'm used to those. You had good people on your side there. Yeah. Very helpful. Yeah. Haters gonna hate. Yeah, the buddy with me was hugely helpful in calming me down. But yeah, so you mentioned Section 16.

[00:02:58] Let's dive into it. North Cheyenne Canyon. Yeah. Very close to Section 16. Severely damaged. While we speak today, still closed, right? Yeah. Speaking today, Wednesday, June 10th. Yep. One of the most popular outdoor recreation spots in Colorado Springs. People know it from Mount Cutler. People know it for Seven Bridges. Mm-hmm. People know it for Helen Hunt Falls. Both North Cheyenne Canyon Road and Gold Camp Road are closed vehicles. And there's... The damage looked pretty severe. Yeah. Like the big washout sections. Especially Gold Camp.

[00:03:29] Yeah. Right, yeah. Yeah. It was like... Looking rough. A lot of rockfall and debris on the road, especially on North Cheyenne Canyon Road there. So, yeah. Park is open for hiking and biking. Mm-hmm. So if you can get into it not using a road, which there are ways of doing that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, it's... It'll be... I wonder how long that'll be closed for, but probably not too. I'm trying to remember, was it last year there was a closure there on the paved stretch? Like a whole pavement.

[00:03:58] Yes. Remember that? Yeah. That felt like it was multiple weeks, right? That was. This one, it looks like they're doing a pretty good job already of like kind of pushing dirt back in to fill some of the stuff that washed out. Okay. Yeah. That is a steep, uh, canyon, tight, narrow canyon, man. You know, where that stuff happens in there. Yeah. Um, it has to be said, like you said, you can still, you know, hike, bike in there on the trails.

[00:04:24] And over the years, like just the connections that have been made there really allow for that without having to drive up that road. Yeah. I mean, even if you park at the big kind of parking lot by the Starsmore visitor center Yeah. And just follow Columbine, lower Columbine. I mean, you can really just connect in a lot of different ways. I did see there was some damage on Columbine. Okay. That was one of the impacted trails. Um, okay. I don't know. I haven't seen anything about that trail being closed.

[00:04:54] Okay. Uh, but I did see that some damage was on there. Um, yeah. I mean, you can also, there's some parking over there on, uh, that, you know, kind of that, um, northern side over by section 16 really, where you can kind of utilize some of those connecting trails, but yeah. Right. Um, yeah, very roundabout way. But in the past people have always like kind of been excited when the roads get close to like, you, you always see like the biking groups, the mountain biking groups and the hiking groups. The trails are ours. The trails.

[00:05:23] It's not crowded. Interesting. Um, but you gotta be doing long distance if you're going into that canyon right now. Yep. So, um, so also in Colorado Springs, you had an update on the coffin races. We talked about how those might've been, you know, maybe a little bit of a, uh, at risk this, a security concern, um, lack of a, uh, law enforcement infrastructure, essentially being, being a key concern there with 10,000 people or so coming into town for that. Mm-hmm And the tiny town of Manitou Springs. Um, what update did you see?

[00:05:53] Man, I personally was like, no, this cannot be canceled. Right. Last time we talked about it because, uh, it's just so Manitou, right? Mm-hmm I mean, the coffin races. So exemplify Manitou. Mm-hmm Um, so right around Halloween. Yeah. I was glad to see the Gazette reporting, um, that, uh, at least from the headline coffin races are on after Manitou Springs settles security. Right. So that was the concern.

[00:06:20] You know, there was some conversation, uh, coming out of the police department saying, you know, we're, this, this event has kind of grown in a way that we're not sure we can, uh, you know, fulfill security needs. They essentially had one cop per every thousand attendees was the report I was seeing. Right. When really the recommendations like one per every a hundred, I think. So, um, what are they doing? And did you see anything about that? Let's see.

[00:06:46] The, uh, police chief's original ask was for 10 additional officers, probably contracted deputies from the El Paso County Sheriff's office to supplement the 10 local police who can usually staff the races. Um, I'm reading through it now. Uh, yeah, I'm not sure what they came to. I didn't get to read the report, but I was just glad to see the headline that, um, that it's back on, that, that they're, they're, uh, as of now, uh, going ahead with it. Cool.

[00:07:16] So, and you can read more of that report at gazette.com. But, um, as of now seems like, uh, they are moving forward. Council decided to reconvene on the issue. Um, do, do, do, do, do, do. Yeah. Sounds like they're, they're, they're coming to some kind of conclusion there. That's good. Yeah. Good for the economy of that town too. And all those local business owners that are, I mean, I'm sure that's a huge weekend just in terms of tourism.

[00:07:44] Um, yeah, I know business owners would definitely be relieved to see that it appears to be going forward. Yep. Um, got a quick headline here. Uh, this one is not from the Colorado Springs area, though. We do have more from Colorado Springs. I got to mix it up. Right. Um, quandary, uh, quandary peak parking reservations start this weekend. Yep. Yeah.

[00:08:09] So that's going to be, um, starting on June 13th, uh, through September 13th. Uh, one of the most popular 14 or hikes, uh, in, in the state, uh, it's in summit County. Uh, those, those parking reservations, uh, essentially mean that anyone who wants to park at the trailhead will, uh, and, and there's a half day reservation, but if you're climbing the peak, it's recommended you do the full day reservation. Right. Um, so anyone parking at that trailhead for the full day reservation, we'll have to pay at least 30 bucks.

[00:08:38] There's $30 Monday through Thursday, $55 Friday through Sunday with, um, some holidays included in that higher tier as well. You see me kind of remarking, like, yeah, with some wider eyes. I mean, I think there's a lot of people who kind of have that impression of it, but I, you know, my view is like that price might be trying to get people on the shuttle. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And away from the road and yeah. Yeah. And that's important to mention is there is a shuttle that exists.

[00:09:06] It's free for local summit County residents, $7 for non-residents picks up from the South gondola lot there, uh, by the resort. So yeah, I mean, uh, it's an extra step for a hike. I think that's maybe where, you know, is all these pay to play reservation systems come up. That extra step is just a little bit of friction that people don't necessarily want to encounter whenever they're, you know, driving out to the trailhead, leaving their car, they're

[00:09:33] tired from coming off the, off the trail and their cars just right there waiting for them. So, um, something to, something to keep in mind. Parking is free after 3 PM and first come first serve. So that's something to, uh, to keep in mind as well. But if the weather is looking all right, if the weather is looking all right, really bad storms roll through that area in the afternoon, especially during peak hiking season. So yeah. Um, gotta be very careful. I would hate to think that that rule would push people to a bad weather situation, but

[00:10:02] hopefully people by now have their wits about them. Yeah. And those, those that can do it in a half day, I mean, it's $10 on weekdays and $20 on, uh, from Friday to Sunday for a four hour reservation plus some holidays. So, um, yeah, so that's something to, something to keep in mind if you are planning to, to climb Quandary peak, which is pretty wild. Whenever they implemented this back in 2021, I was just refreshing myself on the numbers.

[00:10:25] Um, prior to this system being in place, uh, 45,000 to 50,000 people hiked that trail, uh, in, in one year. Um, after this reservation system was put in place about 25,000 to 30,000, still one of the most popular peaks to, to climb in Colorado. Yeah. Um, still up there with the most popular peaks to climb in Colorado. So yeah, pretty wild.

[00:10:50] I can't help but, um, be a little curious about, I mean, when you say 2021, we are talking again about that time when there was record visitation all across the outdoors. Right. Yeah. Um, I'd really be curious about where those numbers would have settled without the reservation system. Yeah.

[00:11:08] And I mean, well, I will say too, uh, it was, it was, it was always pretty popular before that, probably a little bit higher, but I'm shocked at how it hasn't impacted the numbers as much as you think almost, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, a lot of people are still going for it. Yeah. People still going for it. So it's got that front range proximity, you know, I think that's a big part of it.

[00:11:29] And it's considered one of the easier in quotes for people just listening, but, uh, easier 14ers, uh, main, main, main route is a class one 6.75 miles round trip with about 3,400 feet of elevation gain. I think he was my first 14. Yeah. It's pretty friendly one for a first, first 14 year. Um, I've taken some people up there for their first 14 year, uh, good views. Got a good, good shot at spotting some mountain goats, which people love. Yep. Very accessible.

[00:11:58] And you can pop down to Breck after. Right. You know, and they're accessible. Hit the happy hours in Breck. Um, but yeah, so that's some 14er news for you. Also very briefly, uh, snowpack is still lingering, but it's pretty much gone. Um, in other words, 14er season is underway. It is underway. Yeah. 14er season's underway. We're at 6% of the normal snowpack, um, for, for the date. And this is June 10th.

[00:12:23] Uh, if you look at the charts from the USDA, it's like almost gone. Like it's, it's surprising that it's even still here, I guess, but I know. Almost gone. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, and all the, all the projections where it's like, when will snowpack finally be gone or basically now. So, uh, yeah. So, I mean, maybe you'll encounter some snow in certain areas. Um, probably not a lot of snow. Yeah. So, but watch out for those storms. Yeah. Springtime is stormy. Yeah.

[00:12:51] Just as it is 14er season, it is stormy season. And you know, we keep mentioning this, the super El Nino that's in the forecast and I am right in thinking, I mean, that is the prediction along with that is, is more stormy or at least more rainy weather. Right. I mean, that's kind of what the prevailing thinking is anyway. Yeah. That's kind of what you're, that's what I've gathered as well. Um, and I'm not a weather expert, so I don't know how to, I don't know how to, Yeah. We might seem like amateur meteorologists on this show, but we are making no attempts

[00:13:21] to be. Yeah. We talk about the weather, but everyone talks about the weather. Looking at a map. That's why we talk about it. Yeah. Looking at a map from national weather service or a chart from the USDA, uh, is, is easy compared to predicting what's actually going to happen. So meteorologists do a lot of hard work. Yeah. Go to them. Yeah. They're the scientists. But yes, my, my understanding from what other media, from what actual meteorologists are saying, uh, is that yeah, more moisture. So it's the thinking and certainly the hope of a lot of people in Colorado. For sure.

[00:13:51] If anyone was wondering about that coffin race update that I, I can't read, you know, I write for a living, but clearly I can't read. Uh, council set a Manitou city council settled on 25 officers for this year's race. Okay. So that's going along with some road closures. Yeah. So that's the thinking. So that's it. It sounds like anyway, as the cap on that. Well, you're you. So you mentioned hiking season, you know what other season it is? Elk calving season. Ah, yeah. Uh huh.

[00:14:20] Someone was stomped outside of their front door and Estes park recently hospitalized. Oh wow. Oh wow. Um, something to keep in mind during elk calving season is elk is mother elk can be very protective of their young. And it's important to note that you might see elk on the trail. Right. And assume that they're, you know, maybe aggressive, maybe watch out for them. Um, but they're also aggressive in cities.

[00:14:46] Like even if they're accustomed to the civilized life, like they're still, still aggressive. So something to keep in mind. Yeah. I, uh, I always highly recommend the elk rut in Estes park. Mm hmm. And I hear this report that you just say, and I am kind of amazed that I don't hear about more instances during the elk rut. Like when people are flocking to that town and elk are just walking along the sidewalks,

[00:15:14] you know, anyway, there's your reminder to go to the elk rut, but keep a distance, I guess. Yeah. And that, that takes place in the fall. Right. Yeah. And I'll say like maybe every other year you hear about someone getting gored. I know there was a pretty bad one on the golf course a few years ago that I remember where it like got him in the stomach and cut up some organs, but, um, Something on Steamboat maybe? Yeah. There was a recent moose one in Steamboat, um, down at the river park there. Um, but yeah, I think you honestly, you, you, you, you, you,

[00:15:44] you hear more about these encounters and these stompings during calving season. Um, I think it was two years ago when there was a string of like maybe three of them in a row and like within like a couple week period. And, uh, yeah, I mean, this one just happened last Saturday and it was right outside of an apartment complex. Um, gotta be careful, you know? Yeah. And there was some reports previously and in days leading up to that of, of potentially aggressive elk getting, yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:13] So something to watch out for, keep your distance, hold your thumb out in front of you. Yeah. Right. And you got to block the animal with your thumb. That tells you you're, you're far enough away. Um, or even just, I mean, if you, if you notice the animal change its behavior at all, that probably means you're too close. It probably means you're interfering with what it naturally would be doing. So that's kind of the indicator that I use, but I've almost been stomped by a deer before. Yeah. Really? Have I ever told you about that? No, man.

[00:16:41] I was walking the dog on a leash in Colorado Springs on like a paved trail over on like the Shooks Run trail. Yeah. Uh, it was my, I used to live over in that area and it was like a, you know, my little 15 minute, 20 minute morning walk. Yeah. And all of a sudden, man, uh, this deer just stands up out of the, like kind of brush by the, by the, uh, trail. And at this point she's probably like, I don't know, like 50 feet away from me, a hundred feet away from me.

[00:17:11] Like she's pretty far away from me, but just starts prancing over to me. And I'm like, Oh yeah. Like what's going to happen here? I don't think that deer wants to say hi. Yeah. And then, uh, all of a sudden it started rearing up its legs. Ooh. Somehow my dog just totally ignored it too. Yeah. Which is the most bizarre thing. My dog was just like, I don't know what's happening. I'm just, I just want to go back home. Cause don't you think it was reacting to the dog? I mean, probably. Or at least. Yeah. And, uh, it starts rearing up its legs and, um, I did, I just carry pepper spray on me down there cause it was a little bit of a sketchy area at the time.

[00:17:41] This was during the COVID times, a little bit of a sketchy area. Um, but I had pepper spray on me. I didn't want to spray this deer in the face. So I'm just kind of like spraying it around the deer, like slightly pepper spraying myself a little bit there. And, um, I don't know why I'm laughing. Oh yeah. No, it was, it, this went on for like, I just like slowly backed away for probably like, I don't know. It followed me for like 10 minutes, man. Like I was like almost back home by the time this deer finally lost interest. Yeah. That would be scary, man.

[00:18:11] And it was, I'm not kidding, man. It was like, it was like, it would charge up and then rear up and start trying to kick me with it. Whoa. And yeah, it was, it was within like a foot or so of my face and I didn't want to like just take off running or maybe I should have. I don't know if you're supposed to run with a deer in that scenario, but I guess you probably are, but I kept thinking it would leave. I kept thinking it would leave. Dude. I'm thinking about walking my, I've definitely been in situations where I'm walking the dog

[00:18:38] around the neighborhood and there's been deer and I'm, we go to the other side of the street, you know? Yeah. And I always hope for the best. Yeah. I hope, I guess I better start carrying pepper spray. I didn't work at least with my strategy. Like I said, I wasn't trying to hurt the deer. I didn't want to like, like do anything, you know, but. I wish when I, when I remarked on you, uh, carrying pepper spray, I wish you said something like in case of deer, man. Yeah. In case of deer. Now I do. Anyway, don't mess with Spencer.

[00:19:07] He's got pepper spray armed with pepper spray. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so we'll, we'll, uh, that was a, that was a very memorable moment. And then every time I see a deer now walking the dog around the neighborhood, I'm like, you know, 200 feet away from home already crossing the street. I'm like, I want to get out of here. Yeah. Yeah. Saw the bear this morning. Saw the first bear cub of the season. The dog is barking at something. And I was like, what is she barking at? 6am or whatever.

[00:19:35] And, um, all of a sudden I hear like this, like tumbling sound in this small tree. And it was a very tiny cub that had like fell out of the tree essentially. Well, scrambled out of the tree, we'll say, uh, cause she was barking at it. Uh, that was far away, very far away. But, um, and it wandered off. It wasn't her. On the West side. Yeah. Yeah. When I was living in Manitou, I'll never forget getting up in the middle of the night

[00:19:59] to get up, get on a plane in Denver and, uh, looking to my left and there's a bear probably 10 feet away. I actually like instinctively like went back in the house. I was like, all right, let me, let me assess this situation here. Yeah. I've got a good bear story. This is becoming our wildlife encounter. Yeah. Wildlife encounters. Yeah. Uh, so I'm headed home from work. Right. Uh, it's probably, you know, a little bit after five because I stopped at Taco Bell on the way home. Yep. I'm listening to my music or podcast or whatever. Yeah.

[00:20:29] Spencer, Spencer classic, but I have this giant bag of Taco Bell. Yeah. Um, so I parked my car down in the street, hop out, still just kind of like, you know, dazed after a long day in the office. Mm-hmm . And, uh, I get out, I look up and there's a big bear in my driveway. Mm-hmm . Like huge bear in the driveway. Um, I didn't know what to do. I'd already shut my door to the car and everything and then looked up, right? So, and I'm like, okay, do I get back in the car? Uh, what do I do?

[00:20:58] And then I remembered all these articles that we've written about these bear encounters. So I decided the best options to haze it away. So I'm just like down in the street, waving my Taco Bell bag and just yelling at this bear. Uh, it just kind of like looked at me. I don't think I scared it, but I did. It did, uh, it did wonder off. It was kind of like confused and was like, I guess I'll, I guess I'll get out of here. Dude. If it knew you had a crunch wrap in there, it's coming. Plan B was to throw the bag and get to the door, but. Yeah. Give it what it wants. Yeah.

[00:21:27] No, that was a, yeah, man. Bears, man. I've, there, there've been stretches where I'll see him like almost every day. So, but yeah, that's enough bear talk though. We got, we got, shoot. I mean, you never know when you're, you're either equipped with pepper spray or Taco Bell, I guess. And yeah, that's my, the wildlife come after that. Two weapons of choice when it comes to wildlife encounters. Um, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And also, and also all the advice from Colorado parks and wildlife too.

[00:21:57] You gotta have that with you as well. Um, so you see these fires out on the Western, Western slope and hearing about them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, got a few actually. I, I 70, which has since reopened was shut down a little bit west of Glenwood Springs, a few miles west of Glenwood Springs, uh, in both directions because of a brush fire that, uh, popped up on the roadway there. Um, on Tuesday, they're still fighting that fire. I think one lane is still closed. Um, just to allow a buffer for firefighting crews.

[00:22:26] Uh, there's also some evacuations with the fire in Southern Eagle County, uh, pretty under under populated area we'll say. But, um, as of Wednesday morning, there were some evacuations still in place. I think the, maybe the, uh, more concerning fire, um, which this one has an interesting way that it started to. So I'll get into that also, but, uh, this beehive fire, uh, it's burning on Carpenter Ridge near

[00:22:52] Paradox, which is out there in, um, Montrose County, uh, kind of on that very west, west side of Montrose County. Um, if I, if I remember correctly. Um, but yeah, so this fire, it's 180 acres as of yesterday's report. Uh, they did, they were supposed to have red flag conditions, um, pretty much on Monday, which is when the fire sparked, uh, Tuesday and Wednesday today.

[00:23:18] So, uh, could have grown more, uh, last report I saw was zero containment, but they were trying to figure out what the containment plan would be. How this fire started though. So lightning storms moved through the area on Sunday. It didn't start on Sunday though. It started on Monday because residual heat from a lightning strike essentially was held in the ground and then was able to flare up when conditions were more favorable on Monday. So I didn't even realize that was a possibility to be honest.

[00:23:46] Um, but yeah, apparently this is a type of fire, a holdover fire is, uh, kind of what they described it as. Um, they say that when a lightning strike happens, uh, that heat can build up underground for days or even weeks and then flare up in drier weather conditions. And that's coming from the, uh, BLM Southwest Colorado fire and aviation management unit. So pretty, uh, pretty, um, crazy stuff. Yeah.

[00:24:15] Those are the updates as of Wednesday afternoon as we speak. Yes. Yeah. Wednesday afternoon fires change quickly. I think the main takeaway punchline, regardless of when you're listening to this is, you know, even though we've had some storms roll through, especially where a lot of our, our listeners are here in the more populated I-25 corridor, um, things are dry out west. They're still dry. Drought is still very present. Um, we've seen drought get a little bit better, but, uh, I mean, a little bit better.

[00:24:43] It still puts, I think something like 93% of the state in drought. I want to say, um, something like that. I'll double check here real quick. Yeah. 93% of the state in drought and new reports coming out tomorrow, but, um, yeah. So things are still very dry by risk still very much. So alive and well in Colorado. So be careful. Be starting to spark. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, so have a story that I wanted to touch on.

[00:25:13] Uh, it is a sad story. Uh, but there is a very important safety message that comes with it. Um, on May 30th, uh, mountain biker was, uh, killed on rampart range road, which is in Colorado Springs, kind of above garden of the gods, uh, in, in that area. Um, but this mountain biker was involved in a crash with the Jeep, uh, essentially what, uh, was happening per report from KOAA, uh, which included some, um, conversation with Colorado

[00:25:43] state patrol is this 55 year old mountain biker who's later identified as Rob Lucas. Um, Rob being a well-known member in the mountain biking community, very experienced biker. Um, someone that this community is absolutely mourning at this time of loss. Um, apparently, uh, according to that report, uh, Rob was, uh, headed southbound on the gravel road, um, which during this stretch, I believe that would be downhill. It was around mile marker seven.

[00:26:12] Um, and, uh, essentially, uh, a northbound Jeep was approaching. He attempted to break, uh, lost control and then rolled and ultimately collided with that Jeep, uh, and was ejected from his bike, pronounced deceased at the scene. Um, per Colorado state patrol, uh, he was reportedly traveling in the opposite lane of traffic, uh, when that Jeep appeared.

[00:26:38] Um, you know, there's no lane markers on these gravel roads like this. And I think that's where this safety message comes in, where it's like roads like this, you have a lot of blind turns. You don't know what's coming up ahead. And it's so, so crucial to make sure whether you're, you know, whether you're in a vehicle, whether you're on a bike, whether you're hiking, regardless, you got to anticipate whatever's coming at you being over that center line and just being ready to stop managing your speed.

[00:27:05] Knowing that if it's a gravel road, you might slide a little bit. Um, and really just trying to hug those edges of the road as much as possible, you know, um, something, you know, whenever I'm on my dirt bike on some of these roads, something I'm constantly worried about. And people, people drive way too fast on a lot of these roads and with those blind turns, you know, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:27] One of those things, I mean, it's obviously a very tragic situation and, um, but tragic and yeah, you know, I might, I, I, I might guess, uh, again, like you alluded to people who know Rob know him as ultra Rob, right. Mm-hmm . Which speaks to the kind of adventures that this guy went on between his advocacy work in town.

[00:27:47] You know, a lot of people are fondly remembering ultra Rob and, uh, like you said, a very experienced, uh, biker for whom this incident reportedly happened. I might guess there are people out there maybe disputing it, knowing Rob, knowing that he was a guy who probably knew the rules of the road and how to navigate a place like rampart range road.

[00:28:11] Obviously Rob's not here to, to speak one way or another on that, uh, very unfortunately, but like you say, yeah, very important safety message that comes with this, you know, that how it reportedly shook out up there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's one of those things where it's like, I mentioned it last time, but you know, it's never fun to include these types of stories on, on the podcast.

[00:28:36] But, uh, one of the reasons for including this one is because that, that safety message and, um, for, for everyone, every traveler on any road this summer, keep this story in mind and, and make sure that you are always aware of whatever is coming at you, you know, um, just for your safety and for the safety of others.

[00:28:55] Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, easy to forget when, you know, we're enjoying ourselves and riding how we want to ride, but, or when you're scared of a drop-off that might be on one side, do not let that push you toward that center line. Sure. Um, you just got to suck it up and hug that drop-off, you know, just drive like you normally would on any other road where you're not driving off that road and, um, just treat the road like that and, and manage your speed.

[00:29:19] Yeah. That's another good point. I mean, there's so many intricacies to roads like these to where, you know, we can only speculate the situation that Rob was in, in that moment. Right. So, yeah, I only say that just because again, there, um, he was so experienced and there's so many people who love Rob and I, I've got to think, struggle to think that he would have done anything to put himself in danger. But yeah, there's just inevitable.

[00:29:44] There can be inevitable situations. Right. Um, but it helps when messaging like this gets across and maybe people can avoid those situations. Right. Yeah. And I was chatting with a friend about him and, um, yeah, I mean, he'd done races, including, uh, this wild race. Uh, he'd participate in the race across America to show you to like the level of like ultra endurance athlete that he was.

[00:30:08] Ultra Rob. It's a 3000 mile race from, uh, the West coast to the East coast. And I don't know what the result of his participation was, but either way, that was something where he was involved in that race and like races like up. So some of the a hundred mile races that we have, I believe. And yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, very experienced cyclist.

[00:30:26] Uh, the guy who did that and gave back in a lot of ways how people are remembering him. So yeah, very, very sad news. Tragic news. Um, moving on from that to another, to another news story. Um, that I, so it came across my desk. It's not really outdoor recreation related, we'll say. Um, but basically the Colorado town is taking some pretty extreme measures to block non-residents from traveling through their town. Huh? Right. So it's the, it's the town of, uh, Bomar.

[00:30:56] Um, which is a little bit Northeast of Littleton. Apparently in recent years, they've been having an issue with people cutting through their town and, and speeding, you know, and just increased traffic on their little local roads. It's like a 850 person town, uh, kind of sandwiched between these two lakes, uh, that it's named after. Um, but yeah, so essentially this, this measure that they're taking is they're going to add some gates on, on, on key roads. Uh, so two gates have been approved.

[00:31:26] Um, and one road closure has been approved. And essentially what these, these gates will do in residence will be able to access, um, or get through those gates via RFID technology, right? Uh, well, they'll have some sort of like an electric signal that opens it for residents, but not non-residents. Um, what these gates are meant to do though, is to pretty much keep people from cutting through residential areas.

[00:31:49] So pretty, uh, pretty interesting approach there. Apparently there was a study that was conducted, uh, prior to this proposal and prior to the addition of these gates being approved. Um, that essentially looked at how much traffic had increased between 2017 and, uh, 2025.

[00:32:09] And one of the main, main key, uh, points of interest will say had a 51% increase in Southbound traffic during that time. You know, people essentially are, instead of going around the town, they're trying to get to Littleton and just kind of cutting through the town. So pretty interesting, uh, interesting, uh, saga that is unfolding here.

[00:32:33] We'll say, we'll say, and it sounds like the saga is not over. I'm seeing reports that Denver and Littleton just might have been pushing back and probably will continue to push back. Yeah. There's no other ideas of how flow should be. Yeah. And no, no dates for when this will be happening. Um, pretty much the gates were approved and that's about by, by the town. And that's about as far as we're at. So, um, one of the reports I was reading was essentially showing that, I mean, these gates, the two gates, um, three were initially proposed.

[00:33:03] But two of them got approved. Um, where, I mean, the cost would be in the hundreds of thousands, you know, and, uh, and then you're looking at like just how that could impact traffic flow. Like you're saying, um, I'm sure there will be plenty of pushback. Uh, emergency vehicles would be able to, um, they would have, so they're supposed to be at least in the proposed plan. Um, some sort of like a strobe detector that would see the strobe lights coming and then allow those vehicles through. Um, or a

[00:33:33] either way, it still seems like an extra layer of friction maybe like what if that doesn't work, uh, type of thing. Um, and then delivery vehicles too. There's, and then guests visiting. It sounds like, it sounds like there's a lot of little, uh, things they've got to be paying attention to. Um, KDVR had a really good report on it, uh, that I was looking through the other day, pretty in depth, um, talking about this recent development of these, these gates being approved by the town. So we'll see if it happens.

[00:34:01] Saw Bomar made national, uh, headlines a couple years ago, a year ago in Wall Street Journal. How so? What makes Bomar one of Denver's most expensive places to live? Hmm. Makes me wonder if it's a fairly exclusive community there that might appreciate privacy. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, if it is expensive too, it's like a, right. Yeah. You probably don't want massive hordes of people going through just cutting through the community on, on your little neighborhood roads and stuff.

[00:34:29] Um, it is, I mean, it does look like a great place to live. It's, it's sandwiched between two massive lakes. So, well, you can't go there. Yeah. Right. And not allowed. I will say that there will still be ways to get through Bomar. Right. It'll just be less convenient is the big thing where it's like, instead of it being a shortcut, essentially this move would make it a scenic route. We'll say I've never been, I've got no visual of Bomar. Yeah. Yeah. It looks, it looks really pretty. I mean,

[00:34:58] it's literally right on the shore to like, so I imagine, uh, there's a good reason why it's, why it's expensive, but yeah. Yeah. I thought that, thought that was interesting. Um, apparently they tried speed bumps and stop signs and things like that, but it wasn't doing enough. Um, kind of curious, you know, kind of curious how it shakes out. Yeah. Uh, we'll see if it comes to fruition. Um, you've got some big news, uh, and I'm going to, I'm going to pull up what you

[00:35:24] wrote about me. We always have our little, uh, meeting in teams here where we talk about what we're going to talk about on the podcast before the show. Um, there's not much organization to the show. It has to be said. So, I mean, the way you describe this is this is one of the more significant recreation developments in recent years taking place in Silverton. Tell us about that. That's definitely my description of it, by the way. Yeah. I like that description. Yeah. It's

[00:35:52] caught my attention because that's how I've seen it. Uh, this Baker's park trail system that's been playing out, uh, in Silverton, something I've followed over the years. And yeah, my reason for kind of, uh, uh, following along with it and, um, updating here and there is because certainly people in Silverton, uh, especially mountain bikers see it as very significant.

[00:36:18] Like local mountain bikers who have known, uh, their area to kind of be behind the curve in terms of modern mountain biking emphasis on that because we know Silverton, we know the mountains all around Silverton. You can't tell me there isn't mountain biking going on around those mountains, but, uh, again, people in town, like people with Silverton single track society really know those opportunities to be limited to like these old mining,

[00:36:47] and mule paths, you know, that are really rugged, uh, really steep, unmaintained mostly. Um, and pretty much reserved for like expert riders, you know? So that's the point of this Baker's park trail system that's been in the works for several years now, this 30 mile network that you could reach right up from town. I think it's like maybe a half mile right from town on this mountain

[00:37:15] overlooking Silverton, beautiful Silverton. That is significant. 30 miles is a lot of trail. 30 miles major and definitely not just for mountain biking. I mean, um, it'll be widely, uh, almost entirely open to people on foot too. So, you know, hikers running, it's already got a lot of appeal for, for people running right now. So it's had a, uh, it kind of debuted a couple of years ago with a seven mile loop that's opened. And then most recently Silverton, uh, Silverton single track

[00:37:44] society announced they've compiled up, uh, over 1 million in grants from various agencies to continue to expand and more than double that mileage. So almost 10 miles, they're going to start constructing this summer, probably going to go into next year, but yeah, we're seeing that Baker's park trail system take off. And yeah, the way people, the way enthusiasts have been talking about it in Silverton is like, you know, bringing this world-class opportunity right at the doorstep

[00:38:14] of town, you know, for locals and also for visitors, you know, who will probably find a lot of fun stuff to do up in that trail system. The one thing, anytime Silverton makes any sort of development, it's going to draw in more tourists. The one thing on my mind is how many tourists can it handle? Yeah. You know, like there's not, it's not like there's a, a giant holiday in there or something like that. Right. Like it's, uh, lodging, local lodging is fairly limited. Um, and at the same time,

[00:38:43] local lodging in the surrounding area is fairly limited. Like you, you know, maybe go down to Yuray, right. And drive up from on the Million Dollar Highway was like 20 miles or so. Yeah. Pretty divided. You go, so get, get on over to Durango. Yeah. But I mean, how long is that drive? Like probably an hour or something, right? I've actually never done Durango to Silverton, but yeah. You can get on the train and get there. Yeah. Get on the train. But yeah, it is, it's pretty locally limited. So like if you're drawing in these tourists, you know, maybe they're,

[00:39:09] um, you're talking about this trail system being like one of the, you know, it sounds like going to be an amazing trail system, you know, it's a beautiful, beautiful part of the state. One of the coolest mountain towns in the state. Um, where did the tourists go? Yeah. I mean, I guess my mind does go to like throughout history, especially, you know, going back to the mining era that established that town at one point, got to think tens of thousands

[00:39:34] of people were living around Silverton. I don't know if that's a fair comparison by any means, but trail system in its first season, they tracked with in-ground trail counters, about 3,900 individuals using that system. So locals, visitors, who knows how that shakes out? But yeah, I mean, the word, the word is still getting out on the trail system and you know, it's certainly, it's going to be years before it's fully realized before we say that there's 30 miles of trail out

[00:40:01] there. It's going to be many more, several more years of fundraising and stuff like that. But I bet that those are questions like, yeah, we're kind of, we're kind of, uh, what kind of attention is this going to get? I bet that's why they're, they're tracking those numbers. Yeah. Why I'm seeing this report of about 3,900 people using the trail. They probably have like what? 900 people that live locally. I was wondering about that. I think it's around 900. Yeah. Um, yeah. And I mean, like you said years, but I mean, a million dollars in grants that shows you they're on their way to

[00:40:31] doing something. Yeah. So agencies are, are, are interested in it. Great outdoors, Colorado, you know, has been a big supporter. Colorado Porks and Wildlife has been, uh, putting lots of money from their, their trail grant program. And yeah, they're calling it the first purpose built non-motorized trail system in San Juan County. So again, going back to that point of how a lot of people have seen lots of opportunities on some of these historic paths, uh, and some of these

[00:40:59] historic roads, but in terms of modern purpose built trails, as we've seen them all across Colorado, providing for it, you know, the kind of experience that mountain bikers and hikers and runners want, like this represents kind of first of its kind, um, in this part of the San Juan's. Yeah. So very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Silverton. I mean, that'll always be one of my favorite parts of Colorado for

[00:41:22] sure. Yeah. Um, so you mentioned, uh, this park that I want to chat about because I, I haven't really heard about this park at all and it looks absolutely beautiful. Um, but up in the Littleton area. So taking us back there, uh, to, to that part of the state, but yeah, tell us about South Valley park. Yeah, dude, I just, I just discovered this place. You know, how many times have you driven C470 through Denver there, you know, past that mighty hog back looming over the highway and never

[00:41:52] thought about what's on the other side of that hog back. I mean, maybe you're aware, like that's the Ken Carl neighborhood. Yeah. Probably people take that exit to either go into the business center right off there or go through the, you know, kind of a slot in the hog back to their homes on the other side, but I'd never driven back over there. I had no reason to driven back there. Now I do. Uh, cause South Valley Park, which is kind of this unremarkable name, right? South Valley, you know,

[00:42:19] it doesn't really give you any image of what's back there, but now I've got this image of amazing red rocks that we love in Colorado, right? Like there are some really majestic formations of back there of this sort that you see at red rocks amphitheater that you see at Roxborough state park. Yeah. Right. Um, like you see sort of in Garden of the Gods more South. Um, yeah,

[00:42:45] more members of the fountain formation, just hiding on the other side of that hog back. It is beautiful, man. And you know, red, but then the color of that hog back, especially if you're back there, like late afternoon and the sun is setting, like just cast this beautiful pink and orange on that hog back back there. And it's a lush feeling green wavy meadow that these rocks are, um, piercing

[00:43:12] through. Yeah. It's really, really pretty. Um, and I think, you know, I was talking to, it's a, uh, it's a Jefferson County park, right? So managed by Jeffco. And, uh, I was talking to a guy with Jeffco and he, yeah, he's always seen it as a hidden gem, you know, certainly not getting the attention that like the table mountains, which are also in the Jeffco system get or Matthew's winters park also in the Jeffco system. Um, yeah, he kind of sees it as just hiding out there for those same reasons.

[00:43:39] Like you don't see it behind that hog back. Um, and also like the, the trails themselves, um, you know, nothing crazy, put it that way. I think there's like eight miles of trails and it's there, it's pretty wide and flat, extremely family friendly. Um, you know, you see like people in the neighborhood, like walking their dogs around there, you see people doing photo shoots. Um, don't see many people on bikes, you know, there's better stuff that they can do elsewhere.

[00:44:09] Um, but you know, there's more opportunities around it. Like if you kind of, um, get on the other side of the park, like away from the red rocks, essentially grazing elk is the name of the trail, you can connect into deer Creek Canyon and get like this whole other environment, like forested environment. So, you know, there's kind of some, some adventure to be had from there, but yeah, you go for the red rocks for sure. Just to see some more of these beautiful red rocks that are

[00:44:35] so synonymous with Colorado. Very cool. Yeah. I'm looking at the map right now. Uh, yeah, it looks, looks like a great, like local spot to explore, you know? Yeah. And like you were saying, this deer Creek Canyon park, uh, very accessible. It looks like you hop on that rattlesnake gulch trail, which literally connects the two parks. Um, how, how big are the red rocks? Are they like comparable to Roxborough or they're like, well, like, are they like, you know, like, are they,

[00:45:01] yeah, I know what you're saying. Um, yeah, they're like more, they feel like a little more like scattered. Okay. Like not like long fins that you kind of see at Roxborough or even like at Garden of the Gods, kind of that more towering Garden of the Gods. They're like, you know, they're like, uh, hulking and kind of angling mini red rocks amphitheater, right? You see a lot of like, are they called like ship rock? Yeah. Um, they feel like mini versions of those kind of

[00:45:29] angling beauties of red rock. Yeah. I got to go. It's worth checking out, especially just being right off the highway there. And yeah, I had no idea. Yeah. It says it's a 995 acres. So dude, we have a, uh, hope I'm not throwing him under the bus here. We have a gazette photographer who grew up in Littleton and he didn't know about it. Dang. Yeah. He just went and shot it and he's like my first time there. So that's very well. Yeah. And his point was like, I guess he grew up

[00:45:56] like rock, like right around Roxborough. So he was like, you know, we didn't have to go into Ken Carl. Yeah. To see our red rocks, but yeah, he had no idea. Dang. So there you go. Maybe something to add to the hidden gems list in very well-maintained, very well-managed that has to be said. You know, uh, I always keep that in mind when I talk about places, whether people think it or not. Um, Jeff Jefferson County, um, this is a Jefferson County park and well-developed parking lot and

[00:46:23] well-maintained trails and yeah, beautiful. Yeah. Very cool. Um, yeah. So before we, we, our list is still going, but the show's already at roughly how long we aim for. Marathon session. Yeah. Before we, uh, before we close it out though, got a question for you. What road do you consider to be the scariest road in Colorado? Oh, there's a lot, man. Um, I don't know. I'm kind of thinking when I was on the million

[00:46:50] dollar highway between Ure and Silverton in the winter when snow is coming down and for people familiar with this road, there's no guardrails, right? It's paved road. Yeah. But you are going through the, uh, the Canyon there. Um, you feel like you're in a very wild steep place. And especially if you're driving in the winter, you might be thinking about one slip,

[00:47:15] uh, one slide of a tire and I might be going down there with nothing to block me. Yeah. Just a massive cliff along much of the road. Yeah. That's a good one. I think a lot of people drive it in summer. Right. And then they're like, it's not that bad in the snow. So very different, very different feeling. I would imagine. Yeah. It might raise some hairs in the summer, but it definitely raised my hair that winter day when I was driving through. Dang.

[00:47:43] Yeah. That was a little scary. What about you? Um, so people are going to hate me for this answer, but I think the scariest road to travel in Colorado is I-70. I think you're spot on. I've always, I've always thought that's the case. I've driven it in various vehicles. I've taken it on my motorcycle before and traffic is just wild on that road year round. People are going so fast and,

[00:48:09] you know, just winding down steep grades. You always feel like you're like almost not in control. There's like this weird feeling. And then if you're going slow, uh, you're kind of just like also a target for these vehicles that are going fast around you. Um, man, in the winter too, like when everyone is on it, everyone's on it. Um, the winter, but just like, I mean, it was put on display this

[00:48:33] last, last, uh, uh, last couple of months where you have these massive pileups because things get slick. People are traveling at very close together too fast. You got a mix of people that know what they're doing and plenty of people that don't know what they're doing on these roads. And then all of a sudden you have dozens of cars involved in the same crash multiple times a year sometimes. And I mean, yeah, I, I think that road regardless of the season, to be honest, is probably the road

[00:49:00] that I avoid the most, even though it's beautiful, even though it's often, you know, it's a very convenient way of getting through Colorado. Um, and, uh, you know, most of the road is well-maintained most of the road is, you know, it's, it's built for driving and, you know, it's, they do a good job with that, but the drivers on I-70 are the reason why I think I fear that road the most. Yeah. There's like levels of fear. Right. And people think of like natural things, you know,

[00:49:27] and rugged nature of roads, but people add a whole other layer of danger. So I'm right there with you. Everyone's in a rush. I'm right there with you. Everyone's trying to get to their spot, you know? Um, and a lot of the time it's a long drive, maybe an early morning drive, people aren't awake yet. Yeah. And yeah, that's, that's gotta be it for me. Yeah. I-70. Sorry to throw it under the bus, but I-70. I think everyone else would do,

[00:49:52] man. Yeah. On the more wild side, I'm kind of thinking about Engineer Pass, which I once trekked over in a sturdy Jeep, uh, along the, uh, Alpine loop there. Right. Uh, that's just a real, I don't know, topsy-turvy. Yeah. Kind of stretch a road, man, where it's like, where you feel like maybe I topple over on this next one, you know? Yeah. And I mean, uh, and you're out there. That's the other point. Right. If you do topple over, you know, yeah,

[00:50:22] maybe you get some help from people passing by, but you know, maybe. Yeah. Maybe. I mean, on that, on that note too, I mean, obviously you've got Black Bear Pass. That's a notorious road. Um, not so much out there on Black Bear Pass, though you are inconveniently out there. Like when you have to get towed off that pass, it's a whole ordeal. It happens every year. Um, also, man, gotta mention Lake Como Road. Notoriously, like one of the most dangerous roads in the state.

[00:50:49] Um, one of the most rugged roads in the state. Uh, most people walk the road. I've only walked the road, uh, but it goes up to some of those 14ers there in the Sancto Cristos. And, um, yeah, I mean, most people traveling that road have like a specialized vehicle that they've built to travel roads like that, but people would be mad if we didn't mention Lake Como Road. I'm thinking, what am I, like, is it Showfield Pass? Yeah. Yeah. Where there's, uh, something

[00:51:15] as ominous called the Devil's Punchbowl. Mm-hmm. Right? That's probably on, that's probably on people's list. Out by Crested Butte. Yeah. Between Marble and Crested Butte. I think I'm thinking that right? Um, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, uh, I think if I remember correctly, I saw a video of the dirt bike going up that into that Devil's Punchbowl feature and they were fine. They were fine. Wow. But, um, yeah, I'm good on that, man. Yeah. I haven't

[00:51:40] been on that. A lot of steep drop-offs. Yeah. Um, very rocky and you, yeah. All those shelf roads, man, are, are sketchy. Right. Like, I mean, you know, all these roads that were just cut into the mountain, like, yeah. A hundred plus years ago. What about in Canyon City? That shelf road, is that? Oh, Skyline Drive? Well, Skyline Drive. Oh, Shelf Road. The actual shelf road. Yeah. Um, yeah, shelf road that connects shelf road climbing. Right. Toward Victor and Cripple Creek. Um, yeah, I mean, I've traveled that road before. That's manageable

[00:52:10] on, like, a passenger. I thought it was manageable. You gotta have the right vehicle, right? That's how a lot of those are, too. You know, it's like, if you're in the right vehicle that can handle a lot of the rockiness. Yeah. That makes you feel way safer. Yeah. But, I mean, you're still always opening the door for, for some sort of an accident there. Right. We were just in a, if I remember correctly, like, a standard pickup truck when we, when we went on shelf road there. I don't, I don't remember it being too bad at all. Yeah. Not a road, not like a gravel road you could fly on, right? But, like, um, definitely something to,

[00:52:40] to pay attention to. Yeah. I never know. Yeah. Yeah. I always, I feel like anytime I'm on any sort of, like, non-paved road, uh, whether it's gravel or rocky, I'm always very, like, cautious and mindful of speeding because it's, like, this sliding aspect of it. Mm-hmm. Like, nature is in control. I am no longer in control. Yeah. Yeah. It removes that layer of, like, comfort that you get with the pavement. But, yeah. Cool. I think that's about all we got to talk about, uh, for today. So, uh, yeah. Until next time, I'm Spencer.

[00:53:09] I'm Seth. We'll see you out there. We're covering a lot. Yeah, buddy. Thank you. Thank you.