New trails in 3 areas; Red Rocks 2027; Oprah's Colorado hike; Snowmaking starts at resorts; & More

[00:00:06] Welcome to another midweek episode of the OutThere Colorado Podcast. Once again, I'm Spencer here with Seth. Hello, Spencer. We got Tim over there in the booth doing the sound and the video for today. Switching up the way we were having the mics here, so let us know if it sounds better. We're going to be staring the mic down instead of having it over to the side, so yeah, definitely give us some feedback there. Got a lot of things we're getting in today, mostly news topics. We got Red Rocks has released some shows.

[00:00:35] I better pull up the schedule, man. Yeah, man. It's looking good. 18 shows already. We'll get into that. Get into some new trails in Lakewood and Telluride area, I believe, and maybe one along... Yeah. Two different parts of the state? Yep, and maybe getting into some new trails in Colorado Springs as well. Can't say we don't cover our ground, man. Yeah, we do our best. We do our best. Got some exciting news in terms of snow and skiing and snowboarding.

[00:01:03] Oprah was in Colorado recently. I think she might live here part-time, but either way... I thought she has a house in Telluride. I think she does, but... I've heard that. Got some news about a hike that she went on. Kind of a fun little story there. She got a little viral there, didn't she? Yeah, it went a little bit viral in Colorado. So, yeah, plenty of stuff to cover, but let's dig into it. Yeah. Let's dig into some snow first. Chat a little bit of skiing and snowboarding. So, it looks like snowmaking has officially started.

[00:01:31] It's cold enough for snow to be made. Seeing that Arapahoe Basin's making snow, Loveland's making snow, Keystone's making snow, Copper is making snow. So, yeah, that's good signs. It looks like the coldest temperatures up in the mountains tonight, and we recorded this on Thursday, are going to be around, you know, under 20 degrees. I mean, I'm seeing nine degrees in Walden. So... Wow.

[00:02:00] Pretty chilly stuff. 16 degrees in Breckenridge, 21 in Vail. So, things are getting colder in the mountains. And also Denver. I mean, Denver's going to potentially have its first freeze of the season, 31 degrees. Same with Colorado Springs. No, I think Colorado Springs already hit below that. But either way. Yeah. Big news there. Snowstorm. Snowstorm did hit. I was looking at the NOWA. I guess that's the acronym people use.

[00:02:29] Nationally Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Mapping. Join the parts at Grand Mesa. I got 24 inches of snow this week. Mm-hmm. Part of me is like, how... Is that accurate? That almost seems too good to be true. Most places got more so in the range of like 6, 12 inches. But hey, that's still snow. Mm-hmm. About 6 inches at Arapaho Basin, it looked like. More significant snow, potentially, coming in next week between Wednesday and Thursday.

[00:02:57] What OpenSnow is calling a chance for real snowfall. Okay. So... Yeah. Sweet, man. We chatted about it a little bit, but Keystone is selling tickets for October 24th. That storm would be hitting before that. Who knows? Maybe we'll be skiing a little bit early in October, to be honest. I was looking at the snowpack, and we are a little bit ahead of the norm for a snowpack. We're at about what we're typically at, you know, once that like October 20th or so hits.

[00:03:26] So, we're gone, man. As long as I'm in the clear driving into the mountains this weekend. Mm-hmm. Friday through Sunday. Where are you headed again? Steamboat. Yeah, steamboat. Looks like they got some snow. Yeah, I think you're just missing the fall colors up there. I know. Yeah. I think I'm going like right between seasons, man. Yeah. I might see just little glimmers and some snow. Mm-hmm. Well, hey, you're doing a little hot spring thing. Yeah. That's a great place to do it. Yeah. Make sure you are. Are you going? So, you're going to Strawberry Park Hot Springs.

[00:03:55] Are you going at night or during the day? Kind of right between. Okay. That's what it's going to be looking like. All right. Yeah. Once the sun drops there, it's pretty wild because there's no natural light, or there's no artificial lighting. Yeah. With the exception of some little red wands the employees walk around with. Yeah. You can see the starry skies are incredible there. Yeah. It sounds like they need to get their dark sky certification. That would be awesome. Maybe dark sky will start certifying hot springs. Yeah, right. I feel like that would be.

[00:04:24] Seems like there's always a new category I'm learning about. Yeah. Very cool stuff. Let's go. Since we're talking Steamboat, that's Western Colorado. Yeah. Let's talk telluride. Oh, yeah. Also Western Colorado. Some new trails you were telling me about. Yeah. I just came by this and I thought, you know, this is one of the prettiest places in Colorado. And when I hear about some new trails coming to one of the prettiest places in Colorado, yeah, I'll write a little something on that.

[00:04:49] Telluride Mountain Club is recently announced, recently celebrated the approval from the U.S. Forest Service of eight new miles of trail that telluride mountain club has really wanted to bring to the ground for like 10 years now. Going back to some surveying they did and a list of proposals that they put forward to the Forest Service atop that list of proposals is what they call the mountain village to valley

[00:05:18] floor connector trail, which is exactly what it sounds like. Yeah. A trail connecting town of Telluride to the town of mountain village. Similar to the gondola ride that people ride now. So a trail, that's a great idea. Some people ride a gondola. I guess there's a road that people have like a historic, rough, rugged, steep road that people have been hiking and biking between. They want to replace that with like a legit trail, like a legit single track trail. That's awesome. So, yeah. I can't believe that doesn't exist. I know. Right?

[00:05:48] Yeah. So that's, that's projected to be about two miles. That's their first priority that could come online by the end of the summer. It looks like. After that, I think there's a really interesting idea for what they call the South Side Perimeter Trail, envisioned as another two mile connection between town park and Bridaldale Falls. Oh, wow. The very popular waterfall. Yeah. With the intention of rather than people driving on over to Bridaldale Falls, maybe they'll

[00:06:17] pull off at town park and get on a trail that's kind of described as a, like a back country hiking experience to Bridaldale Falls. Right. Well, and they just built the new trail to Bridaldale Falls pretty recently. Like right in that area. Yeah. So another option. Being able to connect into that makes a lot of sense, I think. I think those are kind of the two that are going to really stand out for people outside of town. I'll give it a go anyway with some of these other concepts that I think are really cool,

[00:06:45] which are really like aimed at like creating some more like destination level trail systems in my mind. So these kinds of concepts that maybe as outsiders, we're not familiar with, but could be eventually. And one is described as this uphill route paralleling the Sunshine T-35 trail, which probably been like a mountain biking downhill. This would be like a three mile uphill option to a just stunning, stunning scenery up there.

[00:07:13] And then there's a proposal to rework five and a half miles of like unsustainable steep, deeply rutted, poorly maintained. Those are their words. Parts of trail kind of in the remote parts, not too far from town. We're talking about Wilson Mesa, the Morningstar Trail, some parts of Lizard Head Trail, where they see this amazing loop that could really function as a like, you know, put it on your put it on your map kind of thing. Very cool.

[00:07:42] So, yeah, that's what's going on in Telluride. Yeah. I always like little trail news. Yeah. I've said it many times, Telluride, one of the most beautiful parts of the state, if not the most beautiful mountain town in the state. It's hard to beat. That is like picturesque Colorado. That, I mean, Uray too, but both of those combined. When people talk about like Uray being the Switzerland of America, I'm like, eh, Telluride's in that category as well, I think. No doubt.

[00:08:08] And so, you know, more trails for people to, or better, and or better trails for people to experience that beauty. Yeah. I thought that was, that was a little news worth sharing there. Yeah. Let's, uh, speaking of Telluride. Could come together in the next three to five years. Should be said. You know how it is. That, that village, the mountain village town connector. Like I said, there's hope. There's funding there to get that in place this summer. Some of those other concepts could be three to five years in the making. Yeah. Yeah. That, that makes a lot of sense too.

[00:08:37] I mean, that gondola ride in itself is worth visiting Telluride for, especially during fall. Yeah. Uh, just that, that beautiful view, you know, and then they kind of, it makes that outdoor recreation scene accessible. Yeah. I think people would love to see a trail there as well. For sure. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, speaking of Telluride, let's talk about Oprah who, uh, apparently, uh, lives in Telluride and, uh, we'll say, so I just, just Googled this, this, uh, she does own a mansion in Telluride. Okay. Uh, according to Google AI said to cost about $14 million.

[00:09:08] So there we go. Um, wonder what she got in it for. It's apparently a high tech mansion as well. Uh, whatever that means. Um, but either way, Oprah was in Telluride recently, uh, posted a video of her hiking in Telluride, which she did last year around this time as well. Seems to like the fall colors, fall color. Yeah. Uh, this recent video though, posted a hike up to Brattleville falls on that, that newer trail that they've built down there, uh, to kind of alleviate the people driving up to

[00:09:37] the falls, but it looked absolutely beautiful, man. It did. Yeah. Yeah. It was some good camera work in there. She called it one of the finest days that she has ever experienced on the planet earth. Nice. So, uh, just in case. I bet she's had a lot of fine days living in Telluride there. Right, man. Yeah. Um, she, she even went up above it too, up to the little, uh, the power plant that's up there. Yeah. Um, yeah. The smuggler union hydroelectric plant. Once you get to the falls, I think I would imagine she just walked up the road there,

[00:10:05] a black bear pass, kind of the base there to, to see that power plant. Uh, you can't go in it or anything, but you can kind of get a little close to it. A pretty historic building built in 1907 once powered the local mines. Uh, I believe it still actually powers, uh, part of Telluride. Um, I've seen estimates of like 25% of the town's power comes from that. I was gonna say, yeah. I don't remember if they mentioned that or if that's still it. Yeah. Um, that's an amazing history though. Yeah. It's like a tragic story up there that I can't remember, but someone who used to live in there, like a caretaker. Yeah.

[00:10:35] Used to. Yeah. I don't think anyone lives there now. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah. So if you're ever looking at the top of Brattleville falls and see that building, that is, uh, what it is. Yeah. Um, Brattleville falls famously 365 feet tall as the tallest free falling waterfall in Colorado. So wouldn't it have been something to be hiking along that trail of the Brattleville falls that day and look over and see Oprah. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right ahead of you.

[00:11:02] Given that it's 365 feet, uh, I'm going to challenge somebody to, uh, to spend 365 days hiking that one foot a day. There you go. Yes. Sleep there. One foot a day. Sleep there. One foot a day. Just spend a year of your life. Something tells me we've got some listeners in Telluride who do do this every day. Do the hike 365 days. Wow. That would have been amazing to be hiking and seeing Oprah. I mean, am I misremembering the videos? Like, was there anyone else in those videos? Did you? There's someone talking in the background. Okay.

[00:11:32] And she's clearly with at least one of the other people. Yeah. Yeah. But like, you know what I'm saying? Like no one else, like that's a popular. Yeah. I mean. It's popular. I was kind of surprised no one else was around there. Yeah. That is true. It is popular. It was a, you know, weekday or whatever. Yeah. Granted, I mean, maybe she was just filming when there weren't people around. Yeah. I would imagine. I mean, that trail is still relatively new. I think most people probably just drive up there and look at it. Yeah. Out of all the times I've been up to Telluride, I think I've only gone up to the falls one time. You've heard me say, I've never been there.

[00:12:02] I know. This is crazy to me. I can't believe I've never been there. Why are you going? I mean, not to knock Steamboat. I love Steamboat, but go to Telluride. Yeah. Well, maybe I'll call. I'll call Oprah and have her show me around one of these days. Yeah. That'd be a good story, man. That'd be a good story. Yeah. That video is like at least over a million. I think it was like 1.4 million views last time I saw. Last year she went to Bear Creek Falls, which is also, I think that one's honestly more popular as a hike comparatively. Interesting. It is a beautiful hike. I've done that one as well.

[00:12:31] And yeah, it's beautiful, beautiful little spot there that you get to. If I remember correctly, it was a little bit more of a road than a hike for a lot of it. Yeah. Maybe you eventually get to Trail of Therese. If I'm familiar with Bear Creek. Yeah. It's pretty. Shame on me. It's pretty. It's been probably almost nine years since I've hiked it. But so, forgive my memory. You can tell from what I'm saying. I get to spend more time in Telluride. Yeah. I wonder if Oprah has a room available.

[00:12:59] Probably many, many rooms available most of the year, I'd imagine if that's the mansion. If Google AI is accurate on this one. Yeah. But yeah. There's our Oprah update. There's your update. Yeah, the Oprah update. Where is Oprah? Where is Oprah? I wonder how much time she spends there, but that's enough about Oprah. Let's talk about some free fish. Oh. Yeah. You heard about this? I did hear about this. Yeah.

[00:13:26] Colorado Parks and Wildlife giving away free kokanee. Yeah. Kokanee. Kokanee salmon. Yeah. Before you go buy your bundle at Costco. Yeah. To avoid some meat waste. For a lot of Coloradans, it will be a pretty good drive to get this salmon. And you do have to have a valid fishing license. There's no fishing involved, but you do need a valid fishing license to collect salmon. Gotta be in the club. Yeah. Essentially all of the- Yes. It's at Blue Mesa Reservoir.

[00:13:54] So they go upstream from the reservoir to about 30 miles upstream to the Roaring Judy State Fish Hatchery. Okay. And that is where you collect them, the hatchery. So essentially around this time of the year, these salmon that are in Colorado, known for being a landlocked salmon, right? So pretty unique in that way. They swim upstream to essentially have their eggs, right?

[00:14:25] So they spawn. And they're not going to be on. But these Colorado salmon are unable to get back to where they're going. So unlike other salmon around the world, it's been about 60 years, I think, since they started stocking these salmon in Colorado. They're not a native species, right? They're not quite used to the conditions yet. Or at least that's what I was reading on a Colorado Sun piece about why they don't return. Also, some of the places they go don't have good return routes as well.

[00:14:55] But either way, they spend about four years in a reservoir. Then they go, they spawn, they die. So to avoid this meat waste, there will be multiple salmon giveaways. Apparently very good eating as well. So like something that people really say is a good fish. So if you have a fishing license every Friday of this spawning season at the Roaring Judy State Fish Hatchery, you can show up with your cooler, you can collect some fish.

[00:15:24] I think you got to get, I would imagine they run out at some point. I don't know. But call ahead of time. See what you got to do. There's also a giveaway according to Western Slope Now that will be taking place at Lake Nighthorse in Durango. Another one that's going to be at Dolores Joe Rowell Park. Those are on a little bit smaller of a timeframe. But yeah, something to keep in. Keep in mind.

[00:15:51] Apparently, so I found, I couldn't tell how many fish or how many locations these fish were in around the state, but they did first start stocking them in Blue Mesa Reservoir in 1965. And per a 2016 report from Colorado Parks and Wildlife, they made their way to more than 25 locations from there. So, pretty interesting stuff. Had no clue that these landlocked salmon were being stocked.

[00:16:22] And that's essentially what they do. Whenever they get to the hatchery, they collect the eggs. And then they're going to use those for future restocking. But yeah, because these fish will die, they are giving them away for free. Vaguely recalling, they have, you kind of alluded to it, but they can have a tough time there at the Blue Mesa. Yeah. Especially with all the lake trout. Oh, I would imagine, yeah. Lurking around. Mm-hmm.

[00:16:45] Yeah, I know CPW has had some tough times with the salmon over there and sharing those waters with the predator that is the lake trout. Well, so... And the conditions that you alluded to. I mean, yeah, not exactly there. Not to totally get off topic here either, but since we're talking aquatic animals. Mm-hmm. Uh, so we had a Donovan Rice on the podcast earlier this week.

[00:17:13] Uh, he hiked 2,021 miles around Colorado, 141 days. Go listen to that interview. Really interesting stuff. But one thing we talked about was the Western tiger salamander. I had no idea. I looked more into this. So, uh, he posts videos every, every day and, um, throughout that hike, right, on Instagram. Uh, one of the videos that he posted was of these little salamanders. Yeah. Which, uh, they were just like swimming in this little pool of water. He's like, I had no clue these were here. Dug into it.

[00:17:43] They're very interesting. They're actually very interesting. They're the state amphibian. Yep. You know that? I looked into this too. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, uh, while they're all the same species too, they kind of vary, uh, quite a bit within that species, uh, where there's a certain group of them that become cannibalistic and kind of grow teeth or more prominent teeth, I guess. Uh, and like they will consume other salamanders. Uh, they get a bit larger, right? Huh.

[00:18:11] And then while the other, the other salamanders from that class are not, they don't, they don't have the same physical characteristics. Meanwhile, there's also kind of this division between the salamanders that, um, grow or their, I guess their lungs develop better and they're able to leave the pond. Yeah. While other salamanders from the same species just stay in there with these, with the gills. Right. Uh, that are like these external gills that bring, uh, bring air in through the water. And yeah, really interesting stuff.

[00:18:40] They're one of the largest salamanders too, uh, in the, in the country, in North America, they can get up to, uh, or just under apparently 14 inches in size, which I mean, that's a big, that's a big salamander to see that thing going around somewhere. Um, so yeah, very fascinating stuff. I was very fascinated by that. I had no idea. Yeah. Pretty, pretty cool. The abundant wildlife that we have in Colorado, the ones we don't think about. Did you see why they are the state amphibian? Uh-uh.

[00:19:08] Uh, in 2012, a Denver, uh, I think elementary school class. Okay. Uh, put in the petition and eventually the bill happened and it went into law. I think there's other animals like that where it's the kids that we have to thank for, uh, getting them designated. I think the state fossil is one of those maybe if I remember correctly. The butterfly, the Colorado hair streak. I think it right there. Yeah. I think is what the state butterfly is. There's a good tree. Yeah. We haven't done our trivia session. I know. Yeah. Colorado hair streak. I would not, I've written about it before.

[00:19:36] Would not have remembered that as the, uh, state butterfly. What about the bird? State bird? Oh man. I should know this one. I think I know it. Is it, it's not the, is it the lark bunning? I think it is. Yeah. Yeah. Let's, let's look it up. That's what I was thinking. Colorado state bird. We are correct. Yeah. It is the, the lark bunting. Good color. Designated in 1931. That long black tail, right? Yeah. Yeah. Personally, I think it should be the Stellar's Jay. That is my favorite bird in Colorado. I'm with you, man. Yeah.

[00:20:06] That stark blue body. It's like the, the black head. Yeah. Very, very striking bird. Um. Beautiful bird. Or the golden eagle. Yeah. Golden eagle too. The peregrine falcon. Or bald eagle. I mean, we get bald eagles too. Peregrine falcon too. Yeah. Yeah. Those are always cool to see. That's a great one. Um. The red-tailed hawk. I see red-tailed hawks quite a bit. Yeah. We get those in Indiana though. Yeah. Ah, okay. Yeah. Those are more widespread I think. Not as, uh, not as unique to Colorado we'll say. No offense to you red-tailed hawks that are listening.

[00:20:35] So, speaking of red-tailed, uh, hawks, let's go red rocks. Let's go red rocks. Let's keep it, keep it with the- Keep it red. The- What are we looking at? The color red yo. Kind of show we got coming up Spencer. Uh, so, uh, red- Put it on the calendar. Red Rocks has released 18 shows for 2027 already. Was looking at their calendar this morning. Um, which I mean it feels early for that many shows. But multiple Grammy winners on there. Uh, going, I mean, I don't, I'll just kind of list off a few.

[00:21:04] Uh, Matchbox 20 with the wall, the wallflowers. Yeah. 90s kids. Um, I think wallflowers are a Grammy winner. Uh, Rod Stewart. We got Leon Bridges. We got Carly Rae Jepsen. Yeah. Um, we got Remy Wolf, uh, Perfect Circle. Britt Floyd with two shows. Uh, Rod Stewart has two shows as well. Deshi Trucks Band. Oh, are they on there? I think I see them. July 29 through 31st. You seen that? Oh, that's a new one.

[00:21:34] Uh, since I think literally since I wrote that piece earlier. Yeah. Um, yeah, we got, uh, who else? Get the Let Out, Killer Queen. Killer Queen. A lot of, uh, a lot of acts coming in. So. Yeah, I gotta get back to Red Rocks, man. It's been years. Mm-hmm. You know, I told you, you know, I was on this show raving about the, uh, Dillon Amphitheater that I finally got to go to over the summer. Love that. And, um, man, I haven't been to Red Rocks, you know? Mm-hmm.

[00:22:03] I had the question after there. I was like, well, would you go to Dillon Amphitheater over Red Rocks? And it's like, I don't like the question because it's Red Rocks. You know, like, it's iconic, man. I'm not gonna call Dillon Amphitheater iconic. I would call it a stellar place to catch a show. Mm-hmm. In a very Colorado place to catch a show. But Red Rocks is iconic, man. You know? It is. Well, there was- I want to say one's better than the other. There was a Reddit thread the other day, too, that was just on AskReddit.

[00:22:30] And it was like, what is the best venue in the world? Top answer was Red Rocks. Yeah. So I think second best was The Gorge. Oh, sure. Yeah. But literally, a worldwide audience on AskReddit, one of the most popular subreddits on the site and Red Rocks, number one. Yep. And I was like, yeah, not surprising. Yep. You know? I get it. There's been some, you know, people complaining about hassles over the years. Price has been going up. Mm-hmm. Oh, it's been a couple years.

[00:23:00] A couple years since I've been. Yep. Last show was Yes. Yes, though. Yeah. And it was a good show. Yeah. But, yeah. All right. Moving along. Moving on. You want to tell us about this thing that people are getting excited about in Lakewood, Seth? Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's been a long time in the works. I've kind of peripherally followed along. I just recently finally dug in because they just recently, City of Lakewood just recently

[00:23:28] put out a 50-page comprehensive plan for William F. Hayden Park, also commonly just referred to as Green Mountain. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. There in Lakewood, right? That park, 2,400 plus acres, I want to say. Center pieced by that lovely mountain. Just, you know, go-to place in the Denver Metro. Accessible by neighborhoods on all sides. You know, West Alameda runs through there and 470 off there. I'm just going to be a little bit. I've been a lot of people listening have been there.

[00:23:58] I know I have. And it's just a go-to place for, like I said, the Denver Metro. I think they reported something like 337,000 across there. Wow. You know? And I was talking to a guy, Colorado Mountain Bike Association guy, who's been plugged into this and been plugged into a lot of similar comprehensive plans over the years. He's like, you know, 100,000 is what you kind of hear for popular places. Mm-hmm. Talk more than 300,000 at a place like this, right? Yeah.

[00:24:28] So just to put in perspective just how important this place is to people and how people have long known this place and just long been a go-to for pre-work, post-work, weekend little getaway for people closer to the city, what have you. So yeah, they've got this comprehensive plan out that kind of really seeks, most importantly, to balance recreation and conservation. Mm-hmm. You know? That's a big buzz phrase that you and I talk about on the show all the time when we hear

[00:24:56] about plans and visions for these places of recreation that we love. How do we also take care of them? You know, how do we identify wildlife corridors and sensitive areas for vegetation and wetlands and what have you? So that's what this plan really sought to do in the first place. To really identify, okay, what is on the ground? And what are the places that we need to protect? What are those places where we need to close social trails, right? Mm-hmm. That have kind of webbed across there.

[00:25:23] You know, again, somewhat uniquely, it's bordered by neighborhoods on all sides. So naturally, there's going to be paths that get carved over time. So it does identify trails to close in those areas that are sensitive for wildlife and plant species, right? Mm-hmm. But kind of the more, two kind of big buzz, two, I would say like, eye catchers in the plan. One being this base loop, as they refer to it.

[00:25:53] This 11 mile loop that'll circumnavigate Green Mountain. Mm-hmm. You know, that's going to be a great option for them. Yeah. So that's one big priority of the plan. In fact, the top priority of the plan. They want to get that on the ground.

[00:26:20] And then I think another people are going to latch onto these three identified bike zones. So when we talk about a super popular place like this, there's naturally some concerns about conflicts or close calls, what have you, between hikers going up the mountain, hikers coming down the mountain. And what that can mean, right? So yeah, they came to identify three bike zones, highly conceptual.

[00:26:47] There's really not specifics on the ground for what these zones would look like. Other than that they would involve some likely combination of bike only trails, hiker only trails, maybe directional trails, separated use trails, like we've seen elsewhere on the front range, increasingly elsewhere on the front range. So the idea is to potentially bring that to Green Mountain Falls down the line. Like I said, it's highly conceptual.

[00:27:15] So they're thinking that they've got to do a lot more like design work and analysis and they have to identify resource, you know, funding and staff to where they feel comfortable putting some of those concepts on the ground. But it is on the table for, you know, for this place that a lot of people love.

[00:27:33] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's always, man, all the talk around that. I'm so torn on how I feel about whether or not we should have more like single use trails and more directional trails and things like that. Mm hmm. Um, it makes sense from a safety standpoint for sure. Uh, in terms of the collisions on the trails and everything. Yeah. Um, it also is one of those things where I'm like, ah, but what if I want to hike that bike trail?

[00:28:00] You know, like, right. I mean, the shoots is a great example of how in Colorado Springs, very popular downhill mountain biking stretch. Uh, I think that's a good example of how it can be beneficial where essentially you're getting the same forest view that you would be getting on the Chamberlain trail beside it. Yeah. Um, so you're not really missing out on anything, but if, if you start having some of these trails that would maybe like go by a Vista or something like that, I could see where people would be, be less apt to be excited about that.

[00:28:29] Yeah. Yeah. I hear the big challenge for land managers, like on the front range is redesignating long beloved stretches of trail, right? So stretches of trail that hikers and mountain bikers have long enjoyed. There's difficulty, trepidation, what have you in redesignating that, say a bike only trail. I hear a lot of land managers are shying away from doing something like that because it, it turns out to be like impossible to enforce, you know?

[00:29:00] So the idea is to ideally build bike only trails. Yeah. You know, that makes sense. And that comes with complications, right? Especially when we're talking about conservation being a priority. I mean, naturally people are going to think more trails, less wildlife borderline potentially. Right. Um, also along with that, like just more expensive, you know, bike trails are more expensive and they're more expensive to maintain.

[00:29:26] And also say like from a taxpayer standpoint, you know, it's like, you're talking about a pretty niche sport, um, which I like biking, but, um, I could see where, you know, more people hike. If you look at Colorado's population, some of the numbers I've seen, maybe we'll say like 50, 50% of people hike every year or something like that. Yep. Um, kind of just pulling those numbers out of nowhere, but from a long time ago, I remember that number.

[00:29:50] Um, where, yeah, it's like, if you're going to spend money on something, it's probably easier to spend money on something that 50% of people would use. Yep. Uh, or could use opposed to something where a smaller percent. Right. But in the case there, the other side to that would be the argument for that would be, yes, we are building a trail for bikes, but in doing that, we are helping you, the hiker by taking bikes. Bikes off that trail and putting them on a trail that they will love. Making it safer.

[00:30:20] Yeah. That's, that's kind of the argument that I hear. Making it less crowded. It definitely seems like that on the ground. Like we're building four bikes, but ideally the hope is that they're building for all uses to enjoy the landscape, how they want to enjoy it, you know? And like you were also alluding to, like they're, they're typically just hikers and mountain bikers are looking for different things.

[00:30:41] Hikers are looking for a view, right? Mountain bikers. I don't want to dismiss. They love a view, obviously, but more so they're interested in the ground and the terrain and the experience. Right.

[00:30:52] Um, of what's under their tires. So, um, ideally those are two different experiences too, you know, but yeah, it's, you know, we've talked about it before and it's, here's just yet one of the most popular places on the front range where, where this conversation has come to, you know, separating use and what are the pros and cons of, of that. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And like I said, I'm not, I like, I like hiking. I like biking. I'm not saying one is right or one is wrong.

[00:31:22] Yeah. We're not trying to fuel any, uh, any of the battles out there. The ideal is that again, what we're talking about is ideally good for all that's, that's how people prefer to talk about it. I'm just happy they're not doing the alternating days, more places. Good, good point. So apparently, you know, there was like at least some mention of that in this planning, this long planning process where we see it elsewhere. People might be familiar in Jefferson County. Mm-hmm. Apex Park, right? Where there's these alternating days, like certain times for, for hikers, certain days.

[00:31:51] Certain days for hikers, certain days for bikers. And apparently there was no appetite for that. Yeah. At William F.A. There was that proposal in Boulder County and it got shot down pretty hard, I think. Real quick, yeah. Um, but yeah. And that goes back to like, if something has been designated the way it has been for a while, changing that is very hard. Change is hard. That's kind of the common theme. Very, very true. Um,

[00:32:14] Yeah. I mean, even just from the standpoint of like, if, just look at it from like the Google research standpoint, right? Like if someone's like, oh, I'm going to go to this trail. Yeah. Uh, in Colorado Springs, they'll find articles that both of us have written about it probably. Yeah. And it's like, oh, this trail is great for hikers and bikers. And it's like, all of a sudden, no, it's like, we're probably not going to be able to have the bandwidth to go back and, or just the memory to go back and edit all those things. So you would just have misinformation out there forever. I know, dude. Like unintentional misinformation.

[00:32:43] I don't know how it's manageable. Yeah. Um. Yeah. You don't see it in a whole lot of places. What else we got? We have one more, one more thing that, uh, we want to chat about, but there's a trail that, um, is pretty cool because, uh, for people unfamiliar with Colorado Springs, uh, there's U pass, which is outside of Colorado Springs to the West. It connects the Colorado Springs area, uh, kind of past Manitou up into Woodland Park area.

[00:33:09] Um, so it's driven by a lot of people and, uh, you know, it is a pretty beautiful spot, but there's not really any sort of way to, to hike or walk that stretch. So Seth has been doing some research on a new effort to make that, that stretch and that beauty more accessible. You want to tell us about that? The best way to get into the conversation is again, like you said, to paint that picture of U pass, right? People know about that winding from Manitou on its way to Teller County on its way to Woodland Park.

[00:33:38] If people have ever driven that, they probably wouldn't dare want to bike it. Right. So that this has long been a, a thought, a concern in the outdoor community around Colorado Springs and beyond West Colorado Springs and El Paso County has, um, you know, going back over the past 20 years.

[00:34:01] Been trying to identify a corridor off the highway, an off highway option that gets you up this historic U pass on bike or on foot, what have you. And there's been new development in Cascade, little town of Cascade. People might know where you pull off for the Pikes Peak Highway. There's a new, uh, not so sexy stretch of sidewalk running along the main street of Cascade.

[00:34:25] And that is part of the U pass regional trail that, like I said, has been in the works for the better part of 20 years now. So along that sidewalk from Cascade, you can continue on toward Green Mountain Falls where there have been previously built dirt stretches, um, stretch of dirt down from the elementary school, get on the roadway a little bit into town and then pick up the dirt again. And you get up to the Cristola Roadhouse. You're at the Teller County line. This is an El Paso County project. So they're concerned with everything down there.

[00:34:55] Nice little dive bar. Yeah. You can, you can finish out with a dive bar. The other end of the trail starts in Manitou, right by the Manitou incline. Do not overlook this beautiful trail right by the incline. Everyone's going up the incline. Just to the right of it is gorgeous. It's called the Ute Indian Trail, which recalls the old hunting route used by the Ute people for unknown centuries. You know, people going from the plains into the mountains for hunting.

[00:35:23] And that trail also tells the story of how that route became a wagon road as the gold rush went on. An amazing, beautiful hike that also is like a hike through time, essentially. That's the other end of the Ute Pass Regional Trail. So now there exists a gap from the end of that trail at the out of Manitou toward Cascade where this new sidewalk takes up. And that gap is the last stretch of this 11 mile route off the highway. How big is that gap?

[00:35:51] They're thinking it's going to require like another mile and a half of trail through. So that's shorter than I was expecting. Sounds doable. Yeah. It's going to be very complicated. It involves utilities watershed. It involves CDOT with the highway there. It's getting closer into the highway. It involves a lot of steep terrain. So from what I'm hearing, we're probably not going to see that segment, that gap get filled for a while. But at least there's, you know, there's some momentum. I think there's more attention to this concept.

[00:36:20] GoCo, Great Outdoors Colorado, funded this ongoing project in Cascade, that sidewalk and trailhead that's coming there. So there's some momentum and there's some kind of funding interest, I think. Funded by the lottery too, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it funds a lot of projects around the state.

[00:36:37] So, yeah, you know, I thought it was worth talking about because, again, we're talking about an off-highway route of a, I think we could call it a fairly well-trafficked for sure, but also very scenic. Yeah. Pass in Colorado, right? That right now the only really sensible way to get through it is in a car.

[00:36:58] So to just think about being able to bike those communities between Manitou and Cascade and Green Mountain Falls up to Woodland Park, I think that, you know, that seems pretty nice. So this is representative of a bigger trend I'm seeing in Colorado in recent years of not just making sure that cities within themselves are connected, but that all these communities along the way that are beside each other are connected too.

[00:37:22] You know, which I really like that because it's like you go to places like, you know, like go to Florida and there are bike trails that connect all these towns and you can just travel and just explore, you know, take your bike out for a 50-mile day, hit all these spots along the way. Totally. Obviously, we have this massive trail from Colorado Springs up to Monument that you can take and then further south as well. Mm-hmm. I like that they're going west.

[00:37:46] I mean, look at the one that's up in Clear Creek Canyon even, like that long stretch and like the Plains to the Peaks Trail. Yeah, good point. It's like as these trails start making it easier for people with e-bikes especially to just, you know, go and just keep going. Mm-hmm. Um, it's a really cool trend. I'm glad you mentioned that Clear Creek Trail part of that Peaks to Plains. Mm-hmm. The great brand idea. Denver up to the continental divide by Level and Pass, right? Mm-hmm.

[00:38:16] Mm-hmm. All the progress that's been made there out of Golden. That was part of Hickenlooper's, I think he called it 16 and 16, where he identified as awesome 16 big, massive trail projects, you know, in 2016. Yeah. Yeah. And so that was one of them, as was this U-Pass Trail. No way. As part of Ring the Peak, more specifically. Yeah, because this is involving that bigger vision of Ring the Peak that we don't need to get into on this show. But that's part of this. Yeah.

[00:38:46] You know, getting up U-Pass toward Pikes Peak and this bigger vision of a loop around Pikes Peak. Yeah. That's been long in the works. But, yeah, I think it's a pretty interesting project. Yeah. In the works west of Colorado. Very cool. Yeah. Yeah. I hope someday in the not-so-far, yeah, not-so-distant future, we will be able to check that out. Yeah. Cool stuff. I think that's all we got for today. Got anything else? Good, man. All right.

[00:39:15] Well, everyone, keep your fingers crossed and your ski maps in the freezer. We got potential snow next Wednesday and Thursday if it hits well and if it hits hard. You know, maybe we start seeing some resorts opening. Do some snow dancing. Yep. Yeah. Well, hey, I think that's all. So, yeah, one last time. I'm Spencer. I'm Seth. And we will see you out there.