In this episode of the OutThere Colorado Podcast, Spencer and Sam discuss a wide range of topics starting with a trip to Fort Collins and the much-hyped Buc-ee's gas station before moving on to a lesser-known Colorado cannibal, a famous bear getting killed on livestream, a scary wolf situation, and more.
Due to the graphic nature of the bear killing and the cannibal chat, listener discretion is advised.
Questions, comments, ideas, concerns? Shoot us an email at info@outtherecolorado.com.
[00:00:00] Welcome to The OutThere Colorado Podcast. I'm Spencer McKee and I am here with Sam today.
[00:00:07] And we have got a pretty interesting show ready for you guys.
[00:00:14] Gonna start off though with uh, I went to one of the most hyped uh new openings that's happened in Colorado
[00:00:21] in recent years. Yeah, yeah, no, Buc-ees. Yes, Buc-ees which I've never been to. Yeah, I was in four
[00:00:28] columns this last weekend and on the way home, uh, headed southbound on i25. Probably about 20 minutes outside
[00:00:36] of Fort Collins. Solid Buc-ees had to stop. Um, and let me tell you this, this place whenever we first
[00:00:43] recover in it, I think its roots are in Texas. Um, a lot of people say in this place was overhyped.
[00:00:51] A lot of people kind of call in this place just through your average gas station.
[00:00:58] Nothing like an average gas station. Let me tell you, uh, I was absolutely blown away
[00:01:04] just even just pulling up to the building just started to
[00:01:08] start to get excited about what was what was gonna happen and and to kind of explain this to you.
[00:01:15] I mean it is essentially like a gas station convenience store on absolute overdrive.
[00:01:21] I think they have 60 gas pumps or something crazy like that. When we are there, they were probably
[00:01:28] 100 cars just getting gas and just kind of mosaing around in that area alone. Uh, the store itself
[00:01:36] is something like, I don't know, I bet it's like a third of the size of King Super's or maybe even a
[00:01:41] little bigger than that. Um, absolutely massive. Uh, I would guess they were probably about
[00:01:47] 1,000 people there just at this fuckies. At least yeah, just on an average random Sunday. Yeah.
[00:01:55] Heavy travel Sunday probably but still like it was packed to like there were not any spots in the
[00:02:00] lot, which was a massive lot. Yeah. Probably you know 15 20 rows of cars back. Um,
[00:02:08] you know, something similar to like a Walmart. Like I've seen, I've seen fewer people in a large
[00:02:12] grocery store before. Uh, but yeah, you essentially pull up and this place is known for its food
[00:02:17] to kind of have one stop shop, which are like anything you need while you're traveling from
[00:02:23] dog toys to a quick bite to eat to clothing of all sorts. Uh, absolutely wild. Um, so we go
[00:02:33] into this bookies and everyone's just happy going into bookies, which is really funny. Like people are
[00:02:38] excited like, in the gas station, you know, you don't usually associate excitement with gas stations.
[00:02:44] All right. Yeah. It's like the hype is, is there? I mean, I would say not overhyped at all.
[00:02:51] But yeah, it's a bit of a cult following. Like I've had my friends who moved down to the south.
[00:02:56] It's like a buckies becomes a part of their personality. Yeah. Very much so I can see it and they're
[00:03:02] higher and like I think their general manager can make up to like 200,000 a year or something
[00:03:07] and um, tiptock shape. Yeah. And like they had older jobs listed there. Um, and lots of people
[00:03:14] were also as we're going in, lots of people are just kind of looking at the job board like dang.
[00:03:19] Should I work at Buckie? Quarter mill quarter million years. Right. I don't think you
[00:03:25] many gas station managers make a quarter mill. Yeah. For real. Uh, almost a quarter mill.
[00:03:31] And so we're going in and like immediately, you're just greeted with Buckie's merchandise everywhere.
[00:03:36] And just other stuff you'd see it like a low zero home depot or something. They got fire pits
[00:03:42] for sale. Uh, they've got branded lawn chairs for sale. Wow. Uh, we go inside and the whole first
[00:03:49] portion of that store once you get inside is just clothing that's not bucky branded but then also
[00:03:55] like half the section of the clothing section is just anything you can imagine with Buckie's on it.
[00:04:00] Well, you're, you got the buckie's drip on right now. I do. I have a buckie's sweatshirt on
[00:04:05] and a nice buckie's hat with Buckie the beaver. Yeah. I wish you'd run you. So the hat was like nine bucks.
[00:04:13] And the sweatshirt, I think was like 30. So very reasonably priced. Yeah. Um, they'd bucky the beaver,
[00:04:19] which maybe is names on Buckie. I'm assuming the beaver's name is Buckie. Yeah, you got to assume.
[00:04:24] Buckie the beaver costumes for, they were like onesies for 25 bucks. They had wearable blankets
[00:04:32] for like 40 bucks. They looked amazing and just obviously printed with the buckies logo all over.
[00:04:39] They had some vintage gear. They had a vintage gear. Yeah, yeah. I got one of those too. I think
[00:04:45] I ended up spending not having like three or six stuff or like designed to look like designed to
[00:04:52] style. Okay. I thought they had like a vintage. Yeah. Just make make any clothing you bring in
[00:05:01] Buckies. Yeah. Buckies branded. But yeah, I think I probably spent $100 on merchandise alone
[00:05:07] and I didn't even buy like half the stuff I was like considering buying. Wow. They have shopping
[00:05:13] cards too, which is kind of funny. So as you know, you serious, I grabbed a shopping card of course
[00:05:18] as I'm going in. But they had like dog bulls, you know, chapels, groceries. Like kind of,
[00:05:26] kind of have groceries. So yeah, once you get into like the food area, that's a spectacle
[00:05:33] in itself right? Yeah. They're known for their barbecue oddly. You wanted to expect gas station
[00:05:39] for just like the mall food court of the future. It kind of like, yeah, it's like, you know how
[00:05:45] most gas stations they'll have those little like metal trays where like there'll be a couple sand
[00:05:49] which is sitting on the little pyramid sandwiches. They've got like a fully staffed situation with
[00:05:55] it's like a 360 wrap around and they like at one point, they brought out like a fresh slab of
[00:06:02] brisket everyone's cheering. Like absolutely bizarre. And yeah, they had like these these chop
[00:06:10] brisket sandwiches. I had one of those. Wow. It was pretty good. I don't know if I put it up there
[00:06:15] with the best barbecue I'd ever have. But just for gas station barbecue, for gas station barbecue,
[00:06:20] pretty good. And I had the chop brisket at Michelin Star, which oh yeah, as far as gas. As far as gas
[00:06:27] there's just go. Yeah, I mean I had the chop brisket apparently the sliced brisket is what I should have
[00:06:32] gotten now and now and now next time. Next time I get that. Well you're a huge bucky's guy now.
[00:06:38] Huge bucky's guy. Then I also had the food the food store doesn't stop there.
[00:06:43] I'm sorry. It's a strike to both barbecue. They also had their fried chicken sandwich,
[00:06:49] which I thought was delicious. That was my favorite of the three sandwiches that I got now.
[00:06:54] Wow. Then I got this little like melt thing, which is pretty good.
[00:06:58] Go for it and love the melt thing. So that was she had that and was a fan could chicken milk or
[00:07:02] like it's kind of like a cold cut like club melt type of situation on like a little roll with the
[00:07:09] sauce cheese. Needless to say that they have fresh fruit there too. They have this massive
[00:07:16] like beef jerky section where there's probably 20 types of beef jerky that I think is just
[00:07:23] made in house but all different flavors of beef jerky that you can just buy by the stick or like
[00:07:27] the pound fairly priced too. I would say it's on par with like your average high in beef jerky.
[00:07:33] I think it's like 30 bucks a pound. So $15 for eight ounces of high in beef jerky is kind
[00:07:41] of that norm the same nowadays. Also had a massive massive a fudge section. There's cut in
[00:07:49] fudge off the block like you'd see it like a fair. Yeah, pretty wild and then there's even more
[00:07:55] food because then they have just their standard gas station food set up with like all the
[00:08:02] you know the candies and treats and yeah more drinks than you can imagine. They have like special
[00:08:08] additions of drinks that I'd never seen anywhere anywhere else. Kind of expect that at this point.
[00:08:13] Oh right and a massive taffy section to just like dozens of flavors of taffy and all their
[00:08:20] all buckies branded to like a lot of it they have like your standard brands but they also have their
[00:08:24] own line and you know I was skeptical you always yeah little skeptical but I mean they were great
[00:08:32] taffy was something that seemed to be really popular. I was especially impressed with their hot
[00:08:38] sauces, big hot sauce selection, big well they have their own hot sauces and there's probably
[00:08:44] like eight eight of them I would guess or so six or eight but the one that I got was the mango
[00:08:50] happen narrow hot sauce and it's like you look at the ingredient list and there's you know less than
[00:08:54] ten ingredients and they're all things that I knew how to pronounce it. Yeah yeah they were so
[00:08:59] and the first ingredient says is peaches and those like pineapple garlic and happy tomatoes and
[00:09:06] it was absolutely amazing. So much so that like I think I used like half the bottle the first day I
[00:09:12] had it. Yeah exactly. Go online and it was I think it was $5.99 in the store. Go online it's like
[00:09:17] $15 a bottle on it. It's not so. I have to make a return trip to Bucky. Yeah it's just from
[00:09:26] buying it to be buying more of their hot sauce. I want to drive up from Denver to check this place out
[00:09:34] and something like that like it's not maybe Denver but not from Colorado Springs. It's not exactly
[00:09:38] not a two hour drive in there for this but on your way somewhere. Yeah on my way somewhere like if I
[00:09:44] know there's a Bucky's on the way yeah I'll definitely hold out and stop at Bucky's. Yeah you
[00:09:56] have Bucky's swim suits. If I don't then you do so there's that. There's your idea Bucky's.
[00:10:01] Yeah they did buggy boards, buggy, buggy, buggy theme, buggy boards and I was kind of funny.
[00:10:06] Yeah they need to build one between Colorado Springs and Denver. I feel like that would be wild.
[00:10:10] own Castle Rock. Yeah just somewhere in there. I'd really love to alleviate some of the traffic you know
[00:10:15] you know. You will get it off for Bucky's. Oh right. Yeah and I think there was a dog park attached to it too.
[00:10:21] One of the people with us was talking about they saw that. Yeah I mean really a cool
[00:10:28] situation. I would if you see a Bucky's and have him been definitely stopped right out Bucky's.
[00:10:36] Very, very, still situation. I feel like there's been like this rise of like the premium
[00:10:42] gas station and it feels like the next. So like yeah and there's Maverick and then there's Bucky's.
[00:10:48] Yeah I mean I loved it super clean. Obviously felt very safe and everything.
[00:10:53] Just with the very friendly Bucky crowds there. Ever it's talking to you. I would say it high.
[00:10:59] Get free stickers. I got my photo taken with Bucky to be very nice. 7 11.
[00:11:03] Yeah yeah I got my photo taken with Bucky to be. So while there was a mascot. Yeah there's a
[00:11:09] mascot on site handing out stickers and it was also funny because like you'd expect to be kids
[00:11:15] getting their photo. So this taken it was like a lot of adults. Yeah.
[00:11:19] Yeah. That's getting their photo taken with Bucky to be very. So obviously had to hop on that
[00:11:23] trade. So I'm sold. Bucky's definitely definitely a good addition to Colorado in this sense of
[00:11:30] it's kind of an attraction by itself you know. Yeah sounds like it. All they need is like a
[00:11:35] ferris wheel and a giant fish tank and it feels like she'll. Yeah. Yeah so that's Bucky's for you.
[00:11:44] Highly recommend it. If you happen to see it, maybe even if you go out of your way to 15 20 minutes or so
[00:11:51] it won't let you down and even with all the cars there and like I said probably a thousand maybe
[00:11:57] 1500 people there at the time I was there. Yeah. The gas situation like we got gas and it was
[00:12:04] quick and easy. Even with there being just a massive amount of cars waiting like we've got it
[00:12:13] through so we did spend an hour there that so it expected to add like an hour to your road trip
[00:12:19] if you stop at Bucky's but that's kind of makes sense. Yeah nice nice place to shake out the legs.
[00:12:25] Especially for the first time like they're just so many little random things to look at and
[00:12:29] yeah it's it's pretty cool. It's like you could spend a whole day at one section. Yeah definitely
[00:12:37] yeah so kind of get it into some news though. Get off my trip of Bucky's and also I will say to
[00:12:45] what spent it like I said spend it spent the week in Fort Collins had an absolute blast.
[00:12:51] Really really enjoyed really enjoy that town a lot the little old town area. There's so many
[00:12:58] little things to do. I think we ate it the where'd you go? Pinaros was the place that we ate one
[00:13:03] check. I want to say I'm going to make sure you have Pinaros tap house and eatery set on their
[00:13:09] little back deck kind of facing that old town courtyard area. Very cool we were in the shade.
[00:13:17] Everyone was good service was great the food was food was great. I had a burger but then I was
[00:13:24] very happy with that but they had this chicken sandwich that someone in our table got and it was like
[00:13:34] need to go back for that for sure. Yeah no definitely. Their beer was really good.
[00:13:39] Had this Belgian clove banana style. Yeah no better place for beer. Yeah it was delicious and also
[00:13:48] when you're in that square too there's a little pup-up place that's like a pup-up slash bar place.
[00:13:53] Nice that's awesome. There's a little man ice cream I think it's called the old
[00:13:57] urn I want to say. Yeah old town churn ice cream which is powered by little man. So
[00:14:04] obviously everyone knows little man but that big yeah. Big or old I haven't didn't really.
[00:14:09] Absolutely a great time then we went to New Belgium. They were a brewery too which is so cool.
[00:14:13] So cool and amazing. And it was a Saturday so very lively. I didn't do the tour this time
[00:14:19] I've done the tour in the past. Tour is fun. I love the tour. Yeah and I'm a Voodoo Ranger fan so I don't
[00:14:24] if it's still going. It might be I think it's like during the weeks maybe. Yeah I like during
[00:14:31] the week not yeah it's gonna wilden to it on it is all insane but yeah that tour is great. The
[00:14:37] Voodoo Ranger. Yeah Voodoo Ranger varieties or whatever summer beer they have. Yeah I love
[00:14:43] like sometimes they'll do a shower or whatever. Well and I think they had like 20 something
[00:14:48] beers on tap. Yeah I want to say. Uh-huh. And that little front lawn they have is so much fun.
[00:14:54] So many art games. Yeah yeah that was cool too. And despite it there were a bunch of kids out there
[00:15:00] just playing football with like so a dad and I was trying to find this watch you know like kids
[00:15:05] look kids are a grudded routs and just like watching in the sports game my drink appears.
[00:15:12] Yeah uh-huh. The absolutely great time in four columns so that always been a place I love
[00:15:17] and uh yeah if you're going up there for recreation you mentioned Sam Horstie Threservor.
[00:15:23] Horstie Tham Mountain right by Horstie Threservor. Horstie Th Falls both those are really good
[00:15:27] hikes. So yeah yeah cool spiked and if you're if you're going to um like four columns for a day
[00:15:37] doing like a bike tour of all the breweries. Yeah. Yeah. There's so many good breweries like just
[00:15:43] anyone. Yeah I mean not just O. Del and New Belgium. Yeah like dragon yeah Horstie Dragons there is
[00:15:50] well works there. Yeah I know where she's in Greeley. Well versus in Greeley.
[00:15:55] Fun quarks. Fun quarks. Fun quarks isn't four gods. Yeah so many it's just you can't
[00:16:01] around. Probably have the visible list to be like to to to cover every one of them but like
[00:16:08] yeah throw throw rock and you find it other great brewery. Well it's cool too because it's got like
[00:16:13] that like college town vibe where it's like a lot of walkable streets and like we have some
[00:16:19] walkable streets here in Colorado's. But it doesn't have that same like just livelyness to you know
[00:16:24] you're on like a downtown city block or you're on like a street but that's just like street after
[00:16:29] street after street uh yeah this walkability yeah great vintage doors yeah very dark really yeah
[00:16:35] very dog friendly you can't really call for Collins underrated though. Yeah I feel like it's rated
[00:16:42] yeah it's got the hype. It almost kind of feels like like boulders pro street in a way. Yeah yeah
[00:16:48] boulders first street yeah all my family had like I've had a lot of family go to CSU so I kind of
[00:16:56] you know I prefer for Collins to boulder not throwing any shade but it's such a cool spot.
[00:17:04] Yeah I would really bikeable too. I thought that's cool that I think that's one of the best
[00:17:08] parts about four Collins is how bike bullet is. Well that's one of the big things that like new
[00:17:12] Belgium they do the bike tours. Yeah tour to fat if you ever done tour to fat not tour to fat is a
[00:17:17] great time. I did it like I think three or four years yeah what are you right around on a bike?
[00:17:24] Yeah yeah yeah right around our bike uh in dress up I have to say I never wore really good costumes
[00:17:32] like there was one time where we bought it on a co-case set and so our costume was the croquet
[00:17:36] guys. And so we just wore we just wore normal clothes and our costume was the croquet guys.
[00:17:42] So like it's not really a no pressure situation. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but then there's people
[00:17:47] who like go as like I saw one that was like a mad max like it was like a 10 person thing
[00:17:53] like and they had a custom built bike that was going over it and everyone had like little mad max
[00:17:59] costumes on there. Like it gets intense and then the costume or in the concerts and stuff
[00:18:06] such a great time. Yeah that's pretty well I remember in Colorado and probably everywhere in America
[00:18:10] I would guess you can't get ADY out of a bike so if you're drinking in biking yeah be safe and if
[00:18:16] you're doing a bike tour get a DD for a bike tour yeah it's gonna get a DD. I think you can even get
[00:18:23] do you want it in roll of glutes in Colorado. I think it's literally like any sort of like thing
[00:18:28] that's moving you yeah yeah be safe out. Yeah where you're helmet but yeah so kind of moving on into
[00:18:35] some other news for the day. Fat Bear Week is a big week for a lot of nature lovers out there
[00:18:46] it basically it's a week at celebrates bears fattening up for hibernation and a cat
[00:18:53] my national park in Alaska I think I said that right and millions of people tune around the world
[00:18:59] that they've got live streams of these bears just feasting on salmon in the river. They've got
[00:19:05] a bracket where you can kind of vote on what bear you think is the fatdest of getting the best
[00:19:16] photos are pretty wild too because it's like you see how like a pair's like third to the size
[00:19:21] that it ultimately gets going in October there and they start thinking about hibernation.
[00:19:26] People are ready to get based on who gets the fatdest. Who's the cutest fat bear. Yeah fair enough
[00:19:34] well I mean there was that that way into the metrics of how quickly they get that.
[00:19:40] Yeah I think well so like one of the bears that one was Otis a one four times in the past
[00:19:47] the most out of any bear and that bear is massive yeah okay so it's mostly yeah very very big bear
[00:19:56] so it's I mean they get like humorously chunky in a way but yeah so this this year though
[00:20:04] was set to launch on Monday kind of got marred by just a natural display of brutality
[00:20:14] two of the bears that were on one of the live stream cameras on Monday got into a fight
[00:20:19] so this bear fight is live streamed in this river so these two bears are kind of you can
[00:20:25] tell they're kind of swimming and fighting at the same time or maybe standing up on but only
[00:20:29] their heads are above the water for the most part and they're by night each other they're
[00:20:33] clawing at each other the bears that were involved in all these bears having numbers some of them
[00:20:38] have names attached that number two but the bears that were involved were bear 402 who's a female
[00:20:44] bear I think she's 20 25 years old and then also bear 469 who's also probably in that 25 plus
[00:20:52] year range yeah and that's a male so around midday these two bears start fighting on this
[00:20:59] live camera it was the cat river view camera and then eventually as these bears are struggling
[00:21:05] in the water only one bear emerges which is bear 469 the male this bear 402
[00:21:15] briefly disappeared for a moment and then shortly after that bear 469's kind of dragon her
[00:21:22] her body at this point she's she's dead kind of dragging her into a shallower water
[00:21:29] on closer the edge of the shore and then standing on top of her very brutal situation
[00:21:35] obviously part of the natural process yeah of just being a bear like that's a risk the bear's face
[00:21:42] every day but then starts to like tear her body and looking like is trying to consume the body
[00:21:50] and then eventually drags the bear's body off the off the screen so yeah and and so
[00:21:59] bear 402 the one that was killed was described by the park as one of the most maternal
[00:22:06] bears at the park she had had at least eight liters throughout her life which was
[00:22:12] more more leaders than any other bear that was in that Brooks River area wow two of those
[00:22:19] leaders also had four cups of peace so pretty notable and now obviously she is she is gone
[00:22:27] she's also been in this fat bear competition before as well at least one of the bears they
[00:22:31] highlighted as one of the kind of the local bears yeah that people watch meanwhile the bear
[00:22:37] that did survive the fight which bear 469 also known as digger or patches I think patches is what
[00:22:46] you see him referred to as most of the time it was first observed in 2001 and it's also possible so
[00:22:53] it's funny because there's like these wick of like it's not wick of pdf but there's this whole wicky site
[00:22:59] dedicated to these bears and people track all the sightings and the happening so you can find
[00:23:04] like an entire story and it reads like a story yeah of these bears that's that's paragraph
[00:23:10] long going spanning years and years like 20 years of history about each of these bears so reading that
[00:23:18] reading that wicky page on bear 469 also most patches basically indicates that he back in 2012
[00:23:30] he was also seen guarding a bear carcass also in October so a couple days after this
[00:23:38] killing happened this year but in October eventually another bigger bear it's kind of scared them
[00:23:45] off of that carcass cache so yeah pretty pretty wild doesn't get much more like that like nature is
[00:23:53] metal yeah and bear fights are natural occurrence they're just often not like witnessed in this
[00:24:03] online viewing before you know where people can see it in live time on display yeah um they attack
[00:24:10] there out bears are also known to consume members of their species crazy that it happened
[00:24:15] not a live stream yeah right just insane on the first day of or what was supposed to be the launch
[00:24:20] of this voting process too wow um so yeah I mean they're known to attack members of their species and
[00:24:27] consume them if they kill them can be reduction of competition so for example male bears my attack
[00:24:36] younger male bears just kind of to reduce that mating competition also can be a territorial thing
[00:24:46] or kind of a guarding like guarding of the cache type of thing whether they don't want
[00:24:55] to raise in preparation of winter as brutal as they can do it just to gain calories yeah yeah and
[00:25:02] that's I mean yeah those cannibalized their own species just to gain calories so a very brutal life
[00:25:08] of a bear put on display yeah um so also kind of a no on fat bear we too that odis bear who won
[00:25:18] the competition multiple times over past years most recently I think in 2021 he hasn't been spotted
[00:25:26] this year yet so and I think as far as reading on the the wiki page for this bear goes there have
[00:25:33] been other years where he's been kind of late to arrive at the river but also getting older so there's
[00:25:39] a chance of this champion bear might either be dead or that he's just moved on to another place to feed
[00:25:45] so uh still kind of a hope yeah so kind of wait and for details on that as a result of the attack
[00:25:52] maybe he just won a retire from streaming yeah he's tired of the public eye a streaming no
[00:25:58] pun intended to go ahead and go ahead and do this stream but yeah so now as a result of the attack
[00:26:07] instead of starting the bracket on Monday the bracket started on Wednesday gotcha so
[00:26:13] officials I guess kind of showing respect for this bear that died in a way they're who are
[00:26:21] these trying to get a fresh start so that brackets live now um at least at the time we're recording this I
[00:26:27] think it's it goes on for a week or so I would people are voting yeah head to the fat bear week
[00:26:34] just google that and you'll be able to find that bracket and cast your vote uh like I said
[00:26:38] they've reported the millions of people voted in the past so her in past years so big thing a lot
[00:26:45] of people know what fat bear week is yeah they definitely um yeah so kind of moving on from that act
[00:26:52] of potential bear cannibalism to another cannibalism situation in Colorado this one involving humans
[00:27:00] very disturbing so we've covered Alfred Packer a lot of times in the past he's known as
[00:27:07] Colorado cannibal and that's not who we're talking about today so a different Colorado cannibal
[00:27:11] but um the Alfred Packer story got lost in the mountains essentially during the next
[00:27:16] petition harsh winter conditions rolled in ultimately and it's still out for debate a lot of people
[00:27:23] still kind of argue back and forth on it but um either killed one of the last surviving
[00:27:32] Peter I think the last surviving person is party or a kill them itself to fence or just for food
[00:27:39] something of that nature or he died of natural causes the story is kind of get a little mixed up
[00:27:44] especially when you're looking at far back i think that happened in 1874 um so yeah a lot of stories
[00:27:51] there and then he ended up eating some of this person to survive um you know i mean that's
[00:27:58] one of those things where people kind of people kind of say okay was he right or wrong like it
[00:28:04] really touches on this massive question of morality where it's like in a survival scenario i mean they're
[00:28:09] have been other cases where cannibalism is taking place just like as a result in the football team
[00:28:16] yeah yeah soccer soccer soccer team well or they as a set of football so uh so not totally wrong but
[00:28:22] um by any means but uh yeah there was a playing play crash right and they had to eat some of the
[00:28:26] people that were killed i believe some were things and some of those expeditions heading west
[00:28:33] in America back in the pioneer days um staling rod i didn't listen to other time of cannibalism
[00:28:40] and obviously it's a very dark and disturbing situation but there's at least like a
[00:28:47] question of that morality there in a way yeah well and yeah i feel like that same shred of down
[00:28:52] exists within Alfred Packard's story yeah like like where it's like okay was like i don't know
[00:28:59] he no one was there to back him up yeah and was it justified like obviously murder is never just
[00:29:05] back but was his consumption of this person justified people do debate that yeah the big
[00:29:11] Phil who were about to talk about it's like not negotiable this is a crazy person like who was just
[00:29:19] accountable yeah well and and the big Phil story too as we get into this there were there are
[00:29:26] three different instances of cannibalism that we're gonna talk about all of those he does kind of pin
[00:29:31] on this idea survival but like it's three times it's like pat and he end the way he talks about
[00:29:36] it like it's not in like a remorseful way by any means um one of those things where it's like okay
[00:29:42] maybe pack more food like like like ran into this problem before it's you know maybe maybe
[00:29:50] pack some more food next time um so it's dude a big Phil also known as Charles Gardner called
[00:29:57] big Phil because he was a large man and from Philadelphia basically there's some riots going on
[00:30:03] in Philadelphia uh he's accused and convicted of murdering somebody um gets put and gets imprisoned
[00:30:10] ends up escaping and kind of goes on the run head west uh with a couple other outlaws they
[00:30:16] are the goals to kind of catch up with this Mormon train uh wagon train and again this is 1844 so
[00:30:23] oh yeah um then I probably get some of the trains out there at that point but they're trying to
[00:30:28] catch up with a wagon train yeah um head and west and uh as they're trying to catch this train
[00:30:36] they need to uh train of wagons they need supplies so they stop at a cabin trying to rob this guy
[00:30:42] eventually i think they they someone ends up killing him um i don't know if it was intentional
[00:30:49] that they killed him but they did kill this guy so that gets kind of local authorities on their
[00:30:54] case so now they're being chased west by local authorities uh big Phil faster than his uh outlaw
[00:31:01] comrades so essentially he's a little bit ahead of him the authorities catch up to these uh other
[00:31:07] outlaws that he's with uh kill them and then toss them on a fire and uh big Phil's kind of watching
[00:31:15] from a distance he's hungry once authorities are cleared out he goes down and he eats some
[00:31:19] of the charg remains of these outlaws and that's the first i think the first documentary case
[00:31:25] of cannibalism by this big Phil character yeah um but it does not in there so eventually big
[00:31:32] Phil makes it to Colorado uh settles down along the south-black river he has two wives i think a few kids
[00:31:39] um and i think by this point it's uh about i want to say i think it's 1887 or so um so settles down
[00:31:50] on the Colorado river and just does his kind of his wild west mountain here in thing we're
[00:31:56] going on expeditions things like that um one of these expeditions uh he is said to have uh so basically
[00:32:04] was using a Native American guide and um this is where it gets a little bit dicey he said the guide
[00:32:10] was thinking about killing big Phil um which we're killing him essentially which resulted in
[00:32:17] him kind of preemptively killing the guide um maybe or in some of the stories say that a guide just
[00:32:25] died but uh mostly reports i big folk killed this guide that he was with during a harsh winter
[00:32:32] as the two were kind of getting desperate for food yeah and then big Phil would like openly
[00:32:37] talk about this so there's a lot of conversations that have been reported online where it's big
[00:32:42] Phil explaining this experience uh he says he eight part of this guide while he was just out in
[00:32:49] this harsh harsh winter conditions and then he also hacked off some of the guides limbs
[00:32:54] to pack with him to to keep bringing along on his journey to present him to eat along the way
[00:33:01] yeah absolutely disturbing absolutely or fine um so and again it doesn't in there and and he's
[00:33:08] actually so he's actually like kind of documented uh telling these stories to Edward Winkoo
[00:33:14] who became the founder of Denver uh also so that's kind of an interesting aspect of the story
[00:33:18] too like he was he was clearly kind of not not uh he didn't seem to really have much of a
[00:33:27] concern with these the instances like theoretically still prominent for years yeah like you know
[00:33:34] it yeah i mean Winkoo brewing right yeah and people explain or described him as a pretty nice dude
[00:33:41] which i mean obviously probably those people might not know all of his past of allegedly
[00:33:46] or I guess convicted of murdering this guy in Philly and then leading people kind of along the way out west
[00:33:53] but uh yeah so anyways that's that's the second case of cannibalism involved in this big
[00:34:00] field character a third case of cannibalism once again harsh winter conditions and um as i mentioned he
[00:34:09] he had uh he had two wives um so one of the wives that he allegedly killed her in eight
[00:34:18] during this harsh winter's amount too so very disturbing situation um and perhaps even more
[00:34:27] disturbing i don't think he ever i couldn't find any record of him ever facing charges for these
[00:34:31] crimes yeah so he just wow kind of lived and died as a person who ate the alleys three people
[00:34:39] yeah um damn yeah at one point he said that he preferred eating the fingers and hands and like
[00:34:46] fatty less grisly yeah less grisly less fatty apparently so again yeah a very disturbing
[00:34:52] situation and i would argue even more disturbing than the Alfred Packer case um Alfred Packer is kind
[00:34:58] of become not a folk hero but like kind of a iconic character in Colorado history like as soon
[00:35:05] as you get mentioned on South Park oh yeah yeah mentioned on your part of the culture yeah
[00:35:11] mentioned on South Park there's an Alfred Packer grill at the University of Colorado Boulder
[00:35:16] which is like the campus grill that's so good yeah so they did that so people do seem to have kind
[00:35:22] of like this cult following their not even one described as that but some level of like
[00:35:29] understanding of Alfred Packer you like be like i took a history of Colorado class in middle school
[00:35:35] and like one of the first stories that they start with is the story of Alfred Packer yeah
[00:35:40] like it's like Colorado what a one is Alfred Packer well and i think to it's like one of the
[00:35:45] reason reasons that people are kind of uh kind of comfortable talking about Alfred Packer is because
[00:35:52] he does kind of embody this image of like the wild west my days in a way and just like the harsh
[00:35:59] conditions and just the brutality of it yeah um yeah what's that movie with Leonardo DiCaprio and
[00:36:06] yeah revenue it kind of he gives me that vibe yeah where it's like this dude could get molded by
[00:36:12] a bear and then still come walking out of the yeah walking out of the uh four or six
[00:36:17] the photos of her he's got some crazy eyes yeah crazy in Ted size i also think that's part of it
[00:36:23] with Alfred Packer yeah it just looks i don't know somehow off putting well there are photos of
[00:36:28] him too i think everything i can find about big fill it's you know it's all like you know just
[00:36:35] 20 years before Alfred Packer maybe that has something to do with that but yeah either way so there's
[00:36:42] you're too uh getting in docked tober here there's your two uh Colorado cannibal stories yeah so
[00:36:49] take a pic let us know which one you think is the least disturbing yeah i know which one which
[00:36:56] which character do you empathize with more yeah i think we're both on a team big fill in terms of
[00:37:05] mediation to yeah like you feel it yeah and then like Alfred Packer i mean she has still it's
[00:37:12] like yeah i've got advocating for it like he oh duck decadibleism but there's there's at least more like
[00:37:18] like it was a big party that he was with yeah like yeah stuff had to go wrong yeah i think they had
[00:37:24] six people all experienced and yeah just got bogged down in snow and just finally won by one
[00:37:29] to come to the elements yeah which is believable i mean big you imagine try to deal with Colorado
[00:37:36] mountains without uh i 70 road crews oh yeah just walking through like feet of snow and then having
[00:37:44] more feet fall on you yeah yeah that's brutal so it's easy to see how that went wrong um just see
[00:37:52] I mean you know here's dealing with whatever supplies you have in the 1800s to keep your warm
[00:37:57] so i do very scary situation either way very disturbing and situation it will but uh and also
[00:38:04] it's kind of funny with the Alfred Packer grill and boulder uh there's been multiple attempts to change
[00:38:09] the name uh they don't i think uh they're kind of like you know what this is a part of history
[00:38:16] uh we're gonna leave it as that uh well it's just it's so i don't know it's it's the weird funny dark
[00:38:24] thing to have at a university especially like boulder and so that's yeah it's really cool yeah
[00:38:32] so a little bit of Colorado history they were getting a dark tuber so look for more spooky content
[00:38:36] from out there Colorado and weeks to come figure we'd start off with the light topic of cannibalism
[00:38:43] yeah um yeah so kind of moving away from that into a topic that we've discussed several times
[00:38:50] and it just keeps being these new angles to discuss it from kind of um wolves in Colorado
[00:38:58] and uh before you're used to think like I have heard too much about the wolves in Colorado this
[00:39:03] is an interesting story um happening Wisconsin in recent days and uh we had a lot of readers reach out
[00:39:10] and kind of say hey have you seen this have you have you seen this happen like could this happen
[00:39:14] call around up too um so basically what happened uh this group of three teens i think uh
[00:39:24] all the all the as far as i know there was at least one thirteen year old and a nineteen year
[00:39:29] old uh because they kind of played roles in this story but a group of three teen hunters are in uh
[00:39:34] oh oh needy uh county uh a needy county uh Wisconsin which is kind of just more rule remote area
[00:39:42] about 175 miles north of Madison um and they're in a duck blind right so they're looking for their
[00:39:50] prey uh and also they notice a wolf approaching their group um so the teens try to haze the
[00:39:56] wolf away they use loud sounds the wolf keeps approaching uh so there you know situations get intense
[00:40:02] and then all of a sudden the thirteen year old looks behind them and sees another wolf that's described
[00:40:08] there that was described as about five yards away from them uh that's when the nineteen year old
[00:40:14] he decides to just take matters into his own hands it grabs his gun and shoots the animal in
[00:40:19] the face and he kills it um he reported this situation to wildlife authorities uh right after it happened
[00:40:27] and uh it claimed self defense as as one would um witness reports in the area said the five wolves
[00:40:34] had were surrounding the team the teens at the time so kind of a group of wolves targeting these
[00:40:39] teens potentially uh with four more wolves kind of in that general area as well so uh situation
[00:40:45] that could have gone very I mean you can imagine how that could turn out yeah no actions taken um
[00:40:53] it's I would guess it's probably likely these teens are gonna uh the teen that shot the wolf
[00:40:57] was going to be fine in terms of the legal sense I think they're still investigating the case but
[00:41:02] it sounds like self defense if what they say happened happened um you know wolf I think that the
[00:41:09] wolf that was five yards away was kind of like charging at them too so seems like self defense but um
[00:41:14] I mean that's that's still to be decided um killing wolves uh it wilds a legal and like kind of heavily
[00:41:21] rate heavily uh regulated in a lot of the country uh and you do have states where they do allow wolf
[00:41:28] to be dealing some uh but in general right like killing wolves is a legal um killing and
[00:41:36] defense of human life is an exception to that so uh if someone can prove that they are threatened
[00:41:43] by this wolf and that the investigation that ensues says this was legitimate then usually they'll
[00:41:50] the right office self defense yeah uh which makes sense um yeah so basically here in this story
[00:41:57] a lot of our readers kind of started reaching out to us and asking us like is this something
[00:42:01] we need to be scared about in Colorado Colorado Parks Wildlife has said that the chances of
[00:42:07] a wolf attack on people would be extremely extremely low um not even something that they're
[00:42:14] really considering to be at risk at this point it seems like um and I mean in order and there have
[00:42:21] been plenty of times in history when wolves have been known to kind of predict on humans um
[00:42:26] like there's a couple examples in like Russia I want to say in Russia where uh wolves were essentially
[00:42:32] so present in this community that they were making it so people could even got side uh you have to
[00:42:39] Google that though I'm not not an expert on that by any means um so yeah google that situation but
[00:42:47] in Colorado so if you take a look at the way that Colorado is and the way that was constant
[00:42:52] and Wisconsin's had three different instances in the last year where wolves have posed a threat
[00:42:58] or have been said to pose a 13-year-old life I think in one of those other cases uh former
[00:43:03] I want to say Ranger, former park Ranger or wildlife manager someone who's presumably an expert in
[00:43:09] wildlife actually shot and killed a wolf on his property um so they've had multiple cases of these
[00:43:18] wolves kind of getting too close to humans for comfort in in recent months um yeah so if you look at
[00:43:25] Colorado's set up and Wisconsin set up it's very very different so for starters there's a
[00:43:33] about I think the number I saw was a thousand wolves in Wisconsin right um Wisconsin's also
[00:43:40] quite a bit smaller than Colorado so while Colorado like we're reintroducing wolves I think the
[00:43:46] number is around I want to say 14 right now and the number of known wolves in Colorado uh Wisconsin's
[00:43:53] quite a bit smaller than Colorado too um Colorado's about 104 uh thousand square miles
[00:44:00] Wisconsin's about 65,000 square miles so big difference there yeah also know where these that it was
[00:44:08] content and Wisconsin's kind of has their populations weighed more spread around the state
[00:44:13] whereas a lot of Colorado's like are very centralized very centralized on the front
[00:44:18] Rangers huge swaths of just remote land in Colorado yeah similar populations about 5.000
[00:44:24] million residents in each state um be out like like I said that population is is more present
[00:44:30] and Wisconsin will say yeah just more people in smaller land and and more time to kind of develop this
[00:44:38] um so basically I mean all of that to kind of say that it's just with the sheer number of
[00:44:45] difference of wolves in Colorado the number of people per acre so to speak it's it's very very unlikely
[00:44:51] that a wolf would be encountering Colorado at this time still um and I think too it's like at the
[00:44:59] maximum uh the maximum number of wolves uh that they're targeting for in Colorado is around like 200 I
[00:45:06] think I think they're uh this first five years of this reintroduction process I think they're hoping to get like 50 wolves yeah so
[00:45:13] way different than the thousand that are in Wisconsin yeah um so one of those things where it's you know it's
[00:45:21] important to kind of be aware of this why you're out in Colorado's backcountry but probably not
[00:45:25] something to really live in fear of baining means wolves bear spray yeah right spring bear spray yeah
[00:45:31] works for wolves yeah yeah that's that's honestly probably the move like um yeah and I mean we
[00:45:37] don't have to shoot a gun and like get a investigation pulled like that's it's a pretty good
[00:45:43] nice well I mean yeah if you want to carry you yeah yeah yeah I mean yeah we want to tell you what to do
[00:45:49] there as long as it's legal but um yeah I mean and I mean honestly though like we were talking
[00:45:56] about that bear case a few weeks ago where the the the dad where the so the we could save
[00:46:02] the dad after the bear jump down top of the dad the dad fired I think eight nine shots at the bear
[00:46:09] missed all of them um probably pretty hard to take down a charging wolf with a gun uh bear spray honestly
[00:46:15] would probably just be more effective from that standpoint alone yeah um but uh yeah so
[00:46:22] one of those things but I mean wolves are also there known to be averse to humans so if they
[00:46:28] hear you come in there probably gonna go the other way maybe watch with curiosity from a distance but
[00:46:35] if you do an up run and into a wolf in Colorado like we said chances very low but you kind of
[00:46:41] treat it like you would a mountain lion encounter you know keep your distance make yourself look
[00:46:45] large when you're back back around scared away make sure you don't run don't turn and run
[00:46:53] if you do get attacked by a wolf very very unlikely scenario very unlikely but if you do
[00:46:58] get attacked by wolf the stomach and the eyes are supposed to be the soft spots that you're supposed
[00:47:03] to kind of target yeah like I said very very minor chances of this happening main thing is if
[00:47:10] you see a wolf distance works to create separation and just don't turn and run yeah make sure
[00:47:16] you're watching that wolf to see kind of how it's body language is changing so yeah also in wolf news
[00:47:23] uh to another wolf has been spotted in Colorado uh so this was part of the wolf back that was
[00:47:31] captured the copper creek wolf back uh was captured in recent days i think at the beginning of
[00:47:36] timber uh the initial capture included an adult male and adult female and in four known pups um
[00:47:45] the adult male was found with breezes thing wound uh that was infected on its leg it died
[00:47:50] uh a few days after that capture the adult females to alive and the four known pups are also still
[00:47:55] live apparently they're in this they're being kept in this enclosed space i think with the one
[00:48:04] so uh wildlife officials felt that to give them the best chance for survival they're gonna
[00:48:11] kind of monitor them in this enclosed space with with very pretty much no he can be contact
[00:48:17] as far as i understand um but make sure that these pups that were underweight otherwise healthy but
[00:48:22] underweight could get enough food to set them up for survival um but it turns out a game cameras
[00:48:28] that were left behind in the area of that din found another wolf so that would bring the uh litter
[00:48:34] total up to five pups so that's kind of interesting um that's a cube puppy too oh yeah yeah
[00:48:40] and it looks so they put photos yeah they put photos of it online and it i mean it looks
[00:48:45] pretty big these these pups were born in spring um and i mean if you show me that photo just
[00:48:51] him with some adult you know with my lack of lack of expertise in in the subject um yeah i mean it
[00:48:58] looks roughly like an adult wolf but still doesn't have the the size and the hunting experience
[00:49:04] and it's got like little softer features i feel like it's got like puppy for yeah yeah i almost
[00:49:10] looks more like a dog oh yeah that's right now um yeah and i think uh so that would bring our
[00:49:16] total of wolves up to i think there's seven uh wolves that are still surviving from the reintroduced
[00:49:22] group of 10 and then there's two wolves from up Wyoming so that's nine and then plus the five pups
[00:49:29] of 14 uh wolves in Colorado um and they haven't they haven't caught this one yet uh they are trying
[00:49:37] to capture this one um so that one's still roaming somewhere but then five of those other wolves are
[00:49:44] in kind of pseudo captivity it sounds like at least in an area probably where they're able to
[00:49:50] roam but still protected from kind of elements and and humans essentially too um topic of wolf
[00:49:59] depredation on livestock goes on so while there's not really like a risk to humans at this time
[00:50:05] as far as Colorado price wildlife is concerned uh there have been 17 instances of depredation
[00:50:11] involving 27 head of cattle uh i think all of those cattle have died they're not really too specific
[00:50:16] uh and they're reporting uh early Sunday official reporting page about whether or not those
[00:50:22] head of livestock died but yeah from photos i've seen looks like looks like they're dead um
[00:50:28] there are at least every photo i've seen it's always been a very very dead and mutilated animal
[00:50:33] but just pretty much skin and bones about wow by the time the wolves are done with it so um yes
[00:50:39] the topic of wolves though uh continues in Colorado they're gonna be bringing in some more wolves
[00:50:45] over the winter uh from Canada i think we've chat about that a little bit before but yeah uh yeah so
[00:50:51] that's kind of a you know topics going to keep going uh for you know forever probably exactly as
[00:50:58] long as there keeps being these uh conversations about whether or not the wolf reintroduction was
[00:51:04] the right thing to do um they also i think uh wolf reanserset or at least we're set up to like
[00:51:10] reintroduce wolf reanser some points so yeah uh probably a little bit less contentious so
[00:51:15] price we could license them from Disney you know over reintroduce some dead poles too yeah pull
[00:51:23] us sign-up paperwork on that i believe earlier this year i don't know if there's a timeline
[00:51:27] attached that yeah i'd have thanks to mother requirements have to be hit but um yeah wolf reans
[00:51:32] kind of a funky little animal you know they uh they're known for like fighting off some like
[00:51:40] big predators and stuff that are you know they're not huge they're kind of the size of medium-sized
[00:51:44] dog it looks like um and they'll fight off bears and stuff just like this insane tenacity
[00:51:50] and apparently Colorado's alpine territory is perfect for them so yeah something kind of interesting
[00:51:57] there to look forward to uh they're also not necessarily a threat to livestock i think there is
[00:52:03] a in the writing of this bill that was passed uh there is some language that talks about how
[00:52:09] livestock producers would be reimbursed godja um fur kills made by Wolverine's bow and thing
[00:52:14] there's there's not much of a threat they have been known to take down animals as large as deer though
[00:52:19] and wow um do they know we terrain hacks or not they're very like solar system yeah whoa
[00:52:26] big territory ranges where it's pretty much like just them and like 50 mile radius and there's
[00:52:31] something crazy like that wow uh so kind of a funky little animal to it yeah it looks like a
[00:52:36] badger going back yeah kind of like a little badger um yeah if you you look at photos of them they're
[00:52:42] kind of like uh about like kind of like misshaping but in a way that you like have to love them
[00:52:48] yeah i know they're so i don't know they look like a yeah beaver like anything i don't know
[00:52:55] it cross with the wolf like yeah it's weird yeah they're pretty cool little creature also cute
[00:53:02] animal as well as it's not uh close to you you know hey yeah i don't want to get never
[00:53:09] never want to get too close to that um i mean that goes for most animals above uh like uh rabbits
[00:53:17] yeah i don't know any animal above the size of a rabbit you generally don't want to get
[00:53:22] close to you yeah always always just maintain your distance yeah you know that's the best way
[00:53:28] let them with their natural life exactly and you live your natural life yeah and i think uh yes
[00:53:33] so that's about all we got for you today um also shout out to Denver because they uh they have launched
[00:53:40] their Colorado Trail Project yeah yeah pretty cool stuff they send a couple riders
[00:53:45] out on the Colorado Trail in recent months uh one on a bike one on foot uh so they're coming
[00:53:50] back with their stories uh if you are interested in hearing anything uh about the Colorado Trail
[00:53:55] it's 50th anniversary this year 500 mile route from Denver to Durango i think yeah um so yeah
[00:54:02] check out Denver because I at website uh for a whole suite of content on the latest video everything yeah
[00:54:08] article is really really cool stuff over there eight bucket list if you're if you're looking
[00:54:13] for like the true Colorado bucket list hike uh i feel like that's uh that's a that's a really good one
[00:54:19] of like that's uh when sky was out on the trail talking to people that was so many people it was like
[00:54:25] i've always wanted to do this yeah it really is and i've seen so many sides along the way
[00:54:30] very well maintained um i think there's a lot of little pit stops along the way too like when i was
[00:54:37] uh on San Luis Peak uh down in the San Juan uh went through the creed way and there were a lot of
[00:54:43] people kind of uh not a lot or a couple people on the college or that i encountered uh they were
[00:54:49] stopping and creed just kind of like a pit stop just to like re-supply yeah well there's a lot
[00:54:54] of hostile like or will not i don't know about a lot but there's even like hostile specific to
[00:55:01] the Colorado Trail oh that's cool you can stay at that was one of the things that they took
[00:55:05] photos of that's supposed there's like a hub that you get a ride to the trail and a ride
[00:55:10] from the trail taxi service i don't know that's that's cool that's all in the story uh if that
[00:55:16] sounds like it's a ventris to go there's a whole lot of information on how to do it
[00:55:21] of the devil gives that right now well and one other cool thing with the Colorado Trail too
[00:55:26] is so i know a few people they're just hiking at one segment of the time i think people tend
[00:55:31] to hear the 500 mile like 500 miles yeah uh stat and they're like oh that's too much for me
[00:55:39] can't take a month off work yeah but i do know a few people that are just kind of hiking
[00:55:43] one little segment at a time you know they go out pop up to bv over the weekend and yeah
[00:55:48] hit the section there for you know 10 miles or whatever it is um and just with all these
[00:55:53] mountain towns it does kind of go through a lot of these mountain towns so it makes it very accessible
[00:55:58] and very very easy to do that even if you just want to do a weakened backpacking so
[00:56:02] well in one person they were talking to if you really want to do it on the cheap uh planned out
[00:56:08] there route um with grocery stores that except food stamps oh that's a lot of things
[00:56:14] food stamps in resupplying at these grocery stores and continuing on the trail yeah so yeah there
[00:56:21] are a million ways to do it for sure really accessible um yeah so that's that's about all we got for today
[00:56:29] shot i didn't work as that there for that Colorado Trail piece but uh yeah so hopefully you
[00:56:34] enjoyed our little chat uh we will be back soon with more news and more Colorado culture for you
[00:56:40] if you've got any uh questions comments or concerns feel free to just ping us at info
[00:56:45] it out there Colorado dot com or ideas if there's something you want us to kind of chat about
[00:56:50] on here uh or something you want us dig into uh hit us up there and uh we will see you next time
[00:56:55] and if you're if you've made it this far leave us a review on apple podcast that would be really
[00:57:00] yeah we'd love to review so that would be great yeah so thanks for listening and we'll chat soon
[00:57:09] bye