INTERVIEW: What rafting season will look like in Colorado following record-setting snowpack lows

[00:00:04] Hey guys, Spencer with OutThere Colorado here. A lot of people have been curious about what rafting season looks like after a winter of record-setting low snowpack. I connected recently with Bob Hamill, who is the Executive Director of the Arkansas River Outfitters Association, with a lot of questions about what this season's rafting looks like, and I think some of those answers might surprise you. Be warned, this is a phone call, so there's a little bit of funkiness with the production, but I think you'll really enjoy it.

[00:00:32] So, Bob Hamill, you are with the Arkansas River Outfitters Association. How are you doing today? Good. Doing good. Yeah, I wanted to chat with you about the situation on Colorado's rivers, headed into summer, headed into peak rafting season. Obviously, there's been a lot of talk about how we had some pretty low snowpack, and then followed by some kind of a turnaround in terms of moisture.

[00:01:02] But I guess before we get into that, would you mind going into what your role is with the Arkansas River Outfitters Association? I'm a former outfitter myself, and right now I work as the Executive Director for the association. Very cool. So, what exactly does that organization do?

[00:01:23] The organization is comprised of all the major players that are permittees on the Arkansas River, and we work with the agency that manages the river, the Arkansas Headwaters Recreation Area of the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Group, Department of Natural Resources.

[00:01:48] So, we interact with the agencies that manage both the river itself and the water entities. And, you know, I represent outfitters at the Arkansas River Basin Roundtable and the Citizens Task Force.

[00:02:06] And what we do is interact with the water community to make sure that we're considered when decisions are being made around movement of water on the Arkansas River. Very complex system, you know, comprised of municipalities and irrigation, irrigated far lands.

[00:02:32] So, there's a lot that has to be coordinated as far as the movement of Arkansas River water. How many outfitters are there on the Arkansas River, roughly? Or do you have a ballpark number there? I believe there's 45. Mm-hmm. That's a lot, then. Yeah. Yeah. Not all of them are members of the association, but most are. All the major players are.

[00:02:59] We comprise probably 95% of the youths on the river. So, to kind of give some context to the current situation that's going on, this year was obviously, we had, you know, many, many days where record-setting lows for snowpack was some of that data going back at least to the 80s.

[00:03:24] What, I guess, people are probably assuming that there's a bit of an impact when it comes to water flow this year. Is that accurate? And do you think there will be much of an impact in terms of the rafting season and how many boats are able to go out, maybe the length of the rafting season? Well, there's some of those questions are easy. The length of the season will be the same. We'll go through Labor Day. Pretty much everybody does that.

[00:03:55] The flows direct us. The beauty of the Arkansas River is that there are many access points. So, there are a lot of options on where and when you can run trips. And some of those things are into play right now about where people are going. You know, they're changing where they start or end trips.

[00:04:17] Some of the trips might be shorter in mileage, but they're trying to maintain the correct amount of time on the river for the trip that you're selling. So, you know, what we are doing is we are maybe running some lighter load, less people in a boat. Maybe some people, if they have them, smaller boats are coming into play. And, you know, but people are going.

[00:04:47] People have been running trips for a while now. Actually back into March because the weather was so good. A few people started running a few trips. But, you know, it's full swing right now with Memorial Day right behind us.

[00:05:03] So, yeah, we're definitely still operating and plan on going to Labor Day as far as how flows affect us is determined, determines where we might go as far as different stretches. You know, we have over 100 miles to float. So there's a lot of options. Yeah. It's I was seeing something about isn't it like 150 miles or so? Yeah, the state park is about that long.

[00:05:32] We don't run commercially that much of it. It's like we don't really run below Canyon City and the park extends all the way to Pueblo Reservoir. You know, upstream of Granite all the way through Hayden Meadows. And we don't boat at the very, very headwaters. So over 100 miles, though, from Pine Creek all the way down through the Royal Gorge, all the way into through Canyon City.

[00:06:01] So I've heard some talk and this is just a topic that I'm not necessarily super familiar with. But I've heard some talk about how during some drier years they'll move water around to kind of make sure some of that water flow is still there in the Arkansas River. And is that accurate or what does that look like?

[00:06:20] What you're referring to is the voluntary management plan, where on the Arkansas River, the Bureau of Reclamation imports water from the West Slope through tunnels at the headwaters up by Twin Lakes in Turquoise Reservoir.

[00:06:36] And in a normal year, you know, we would import upwards of 58,000 acre feet or so of what about 10,000 initially is earmarked for the voluntary flow program for the boating recreational period of July 1st to August 15th. But I give you a little bit of that background with the caveat of, you know, this year we won't have any allocations.

[00:07:05] There won't be any supplemental flow in the Arkansas River because the imports were at least 1,700 a fraction of what normally we would import. So that won't come to play to help us like it does other years. Last year, you know, we had an allocation of 17, let's see, 17,000 acre feet went into the flow program.

[00:07:34] So big difference. So we're going to be dealing with much different native flows only this year. So a different scenario. So I think something when we were talking the other day about this topic, something that you said really resonated with me where kind of like regardless of the flow, regardless of like how how long like mileage wise rafting trip is going.

[00:08:00] It's more so just about being on the river and just the fun of just, you know, being on the river with your friends and floating down the river and how that's like a huge part of the appeal. Would you mind talking on that a little bit? Sure. I think that's the most important part of the messaging and the reality of what we do. You know, we've been through other drought years and then 2002, 2012, most specifically.

[00:08:28] And what we learned is people, if you come right at it and you're going to have fun and you're interested in having fun with your family and friends, you're going to do that on the Arkansas River. I mean, it's a beautiful river, great scenery. You're out by. Right. And, you know, that's the biggest part is it's about attitude.

[00:08:51] And if the guides come with a good attitude and they're going to provide a good experience for our guests, things are going to work out just fine as far as what the experience can be. And that's a very important message for us to keep in our minds as we go out there every day, that people come in maybe for the first time around a river. And, you know, the experience with their family and friends is the most important piece.

[00:09:21] So you can do that no matter what the flow is. And that's proven itself time and time again. So on a year like this where the flow might be a little bit lower and this this question is probably going to be hard to answer just because I know every stretch of river varies, every feature varies. But would you say that a year with lower flow is a better year for maybe people that haven't tried rafting before? Like, is it a little bit easier?

[00:09:49] Is a little bit, you know, like less intense or is it does it really just vary on the stretch of river? Both of those things. Some place some rapids are harder at lower flows, more technical, you know, like the maneuvering is more intricate and exact. And and it does a lot.

[00:10:08] The lower flows do open things up more for people that don't want the, you know, the more high adventure type of flows that you get with big water and high runoffs. So there's there's plenty of opportunity for like families. There's great opportunity for instructional type trips. You know, people learn in the kayak outfitters have really embraced.

[00:10:34] That potentially using inflatable kayaks where you paddle, you know, an inflatable boat by yourself. It allows people to experience the river one on one, you know, with a smaller boat individually navigating. You know, the sections of River, the rapids by yourself and, you know, the leadership of a guide kind of helps you along and is there for rescue and things like that.

[00:11:02] um so it there is a chance for high adventure these kind of flows by changing the type of craft that you're in and so some outfitters are starting to go to those in a year like this yeah the inflatable kayaking is something that i would definitely be interested in checking out that sounds so fun uh yeah is it is it uh i mean how much training goes into into that before you

[00:11:30] just put somebody out on the river is it pretty intuitive um well it's not fully intuitive um there's a couple things you know you learn about paddle strokes and safety and a little bit about the hydrology and you start off on an easier stretch of river obviously less consequential and um you know work your way up and that's the beauty of the arkansas too is there are a lot of options to do that there's some easier stretches of a river where you know that are conducive

[00:12:00] to first timers going out inflatable kayaks what um so would you mind giving us like a quick breakdown of maybe like what the different stretches of river are like uh just kind of like and i've been i've been through the numbers section out at a bv area okay and absolutely love that we were there too i want to say it was two years ago when flows were very high and we were there at the

[00:12:28] beginning of the season and kind of like what you alluded to there with um how lower flows might make some of the features a little bit more technical we were just the flows were so high we were just cruising over most of the stuff i think that's right yeah um but had an absolute blast but yeah would you mind uh maybe for people that are unfamiliar with the layout of the arkansas river and and what it has to offer maybe just kind of going over the the key stretches there that people might want to visit

[00:12:53] sure i mean starting with the section upstream that you're talking about called the numbers from granite down to above buena vista you know they're called the Numbers because the rapids are numbered one two three four five six and um and uh there's other stuff in between as well but it's a real challenging you know class four to five section um pine creek right above the numbers would be

[00:13:21] probably our most challenging rapid in section class five which is above the numbers then you float into the numbers and then you come in through um buena vista and you run through town and there's a section called the milk run right above brown's canyon and then brown's canyon itself runs through the brown's canyon national monument and uh you know goes down to right above salida to places called stone bridge or big

[00:13:50] bend and then there's an easier run from from big bend or stone bridge down into salida and that's a popular fishing stretch and again a popular stretch for first-time boaters you know inflatable kayaks or even rafters that are going out there on their own and there's that section then Salida starting in Salida

[00:14:14] going all the way down to parkdale is about oh 46 to 50 miles or so of big horn sheep canyon which is a real popular stretch as well similar to the rapids and brown's canyon and then beyond that you have the royal gorge which is another class four plus stretch going down to canyon city

[00:14:36] then there's a town run through canyon city and uh that kind of completes the section that people do boat um how's the town run through canyon city just out of curiosity it's it's kind of flat there's um some features to run through there's a canyon city has a whitewater park and um so there's some features that have been designed there um you know some surf waves and things like that so they're kind of fun

[00:15:07] but um yeah you can go all the way through and then um take out at the other end of canyon city yeah very cool um so for someone that's listening that uh you know maybe they want to go try rafting for the first time this year um what's the best way to find an outfitter that would fit their needs like is that just a google search or is that is there a better way to do that well for us we like

[00:15:34] people to start with our website you know our association website which is raft the best dot com and uh you know you'll see all the listing of the outfitters and the different trips they offer and I would say that i mean most outfitters run stretches easier stretches to the more challenging stretches and beginner trips and more advanced trips pretty much everybody does that

[00:16:01] and depending where people want to go you know there are companies and it's easily defined on that website of if people are going to buena vista you know you're closer to browns canyon or the number stretch if you're coming from like colorado springs and going to canyon city area you know big horn sheep canyon in the royal gorge or in that vicinity so it depends on where you're going um

[00:16:27] what kind of trip you want to do i mean a lot of people will you know run the various different stretches you know on each year and their different trip that they might do you know work their way up in progression start easier and then eventually do a more challenging run like the royal gorge or the numbers and start you know in a place like browns canyon or big horn sheep canyon yeah very cool um

[00:16:54] yeah i'm looking over the website right now and looking over the list of of all the different companies that are part of that and there are a lot of options here there's a lot of options and you know these guys i mean they're committed by being a you know a row of members and association members to running high quality trips so we have a great collection of outfitters that that run on this

[00:17:20] river it's a very professionally um oriented type of a association and uh i think the outfitters here do a great job um it's uh it's a group that does safe trips as safe as possible that's the number one goal

[00:17:41] yeah very cool um to kind of switch gears i guess what i was curious um maybe like what big issues are present when it comes to the rafting community in colorado right now maybe aside from the lower water are there any other big conversations going on the biggest conversation

[00:18:05] um is water um it's always water on all the different rivers you know and um the thing that arkansas stands out um above other rivers is the ability to have that voluntary flow management plan um that program in in most years it's it allows us to have that supplemental flow

[00:18:29] um where a lot of other rivers run out in the middle or late summer so it allows us to go a little longer so those are i don't know water still continues to be the biggest the biggest challenge and you know we have our eye on what's going on with climate and uh how we're changing changing snow packs affecting us

[00:18:54] and snow packs melting earlier or less snow in the future i guess climate and environmental impacts are uh are the big number one challenge right now have you seen any uh i mean have you seen any of those trends firsthand um like are is there you know on on average less water available now compared to 20 years ago

[00:19:19] or like what numbers are around that um it's some years it's not every year you know it's like normal years i mean we're seeing things like dust on snow and um soil moisture content reports which we used to never think about but you know as things dry out and the aridification of the west and the southwest

[00:19:44] you know those are those are indicators of like how are we going to adapt and if the flows are going to be such that they might melt you know the snow pack might come down earlier it's like how are we going to get people to come rafting in may versus waiting to july because everybody wants to come in july and uh so it's it's something we think about and how to adjust um you know it's it's a changing climate

[00:20:13] for sure yeah the uh the dust on the peaks is something that i've noticed uh in recent years as well where um especially with the lower snowpack years that we've had you know just in the last five or six years and they haven't all been like you said they haven't all been low snowpack but um the dust on the peaks is something that is a little bit startling i think um whenever you're

[00:20:38] you're hiking a 14er you know and there's a snow field up there and it's just covered in like dirt yeah right but yeah just blowing in um that was a one i remember i was down on red cloud by lake city and and that was one where it was uh i mean which famously i think is is that one often gets covered in dust but still seeing that and uh you know i mean just the result of

[00:21:06] drier lands elsewhere being blown up on the mountains well that's what it is too you know it's like the head headquarters for the um the organization that kind of monitors that is in silverton in the san juan mountains definitely experience that more than other people because the um or other areas because you know that a lot of the dust is coming from the four

[00:21:31] corners area you know arizona and new mexico but it's like it makes the snow melt faster right because i mean brown snow is going to absorb radiation quicker and it's going to melt earlier and that's something we didn't usually deal with and snow in the burn scars you know melts quicker because there's

[00:21:54] no protection from needles or leaves um covering you know shading that snow pack so some different features are happening that um definitely have us concerned about and uh and uh help having us adapt to so things we look for on a year like this where um it sounds like like you're pretty confident

[00:22:20] that the uh the colorado rafting season is gonna be its its full length that it typically is do you see impacts further downstream in um you know outside of colorado like are those rafting companies that are uh you know kind of you know further downstream uh are they expecting bigger impacts um what do you mean by farther downstream in other states yeah yeah like in other states like once you

[00:22:50] once you go outside yeah well the the biggest impact is to our south um new mexico is having a very difficult time for several years now you know they have two major runs that they do in new mexico i mean we're branching into new mexico here but i just have friends down there and used to operate down there ourselves and uh it's very challenging water is really low in new mexico

[00:23:17] um almost on a yearly basis they're having very tough years lined up one after another and places like arizona obviously with the big story of the colorado river through the grand canyon you know flows in the grand canyon are lower than they usually are and another major river in arizona the salt hasn't had a season in a couple years at all from too low you know hitting record lows

[00:23:45] so the southwest is hitting is getting hit pretty hard yeah i'd have to imagine that might maybe that is a positive for colorado rafting i guess if people yeah right people will come here yeah you know coming from like southern california or phoenix albuquerque that that definitely affects where people might recreate um recreationally boat so it does affect

[00:24:17] outside of the uh the voluntary um uh water releases uh and that program is there anything else that uh and i guess also outside of like maybe shifting the way that people approach water sports adding things like the inflatable kayaks uh adjusting boat size is there anything else that uh colorado's

[00:24:39] rafting outfitters are doing to maybe um prevent issues from getting worse in the future like if if there is a trend of less water you know more more dust on snow that causes that quicker snow but snow melt i guess looking ahead like 5 10 15 years uh what's being done to kind of you know help help

[00:25:03] the rafting world in colorado how to mitigate those types of things yeah well some people are branching out you know there are people that offer other kinds of activities um you know they partner with other businesses or have the activity themselves things like zip lines um what else would they be doing

[00:25:24] zip lines via ferretta um courses um you know having having campgrounds um doing food doing lodging doing other types of activities um atvs whatever it might be where you could partner with other local businesses to kind of create a vacation package package that brings people together

[00:25:52] the other one that is really booming i think in in our river is um is fishing guided fishing trips both floating and walkway and uh it's more i mean the arkansas river is the most popular river river to fish in colorado and uh for good reason you know there's gold it's a gold medal

[00:26:15] river 102 miles of gold medal designation the highest quality in the you know state of colorado so fishing is has become a big deal and it's going to be a really big deal this year because with lower flows there won't be any shutdown times because of high water high muddy water that you would get in other years so people that are fishing our fishing outfitters are going to be going right

[00:26:43] through the season like right now usually you wouldn't be fishing and this time of may the end of may early june but the water's relatively clear and you know the fishing is great so those those folks are doing great yeah i also i love seeing all the little uh surf parks popping up that's a cool well that's another thing too i mean we don't do that much with that commercially i mean there are some

[00:27:10] companies that do i would say do some instructional you know kayaking and um we'll use the whitewater parks i mean we have whitewater parks in buena vista salida canyon city and pueblo i mean four on this river and uh you know world-class design um features surf waves um actual surfboards river surfboards yeah so

[00:27:40] there are companies that um do some instructional there and some rentals i mean rentals another thing that people do to kind of you know branch out from their usual just running raft trips so those are some areas too that they're looking at as far as trying to stay viable uh-huh yeah and just keeping those towns um you know if there's if there's even flow in the sense of

[00:28:07] how many people are coming for the rafting you know maybe people are still coming for that as well and and able to help sustain those towns in the summer yeah and that's an important part is just the connection between you know the rafting industry or just the boating um community is is part of the overall community the health the economic health

[00:28:30] is really important um what goes on in these communities definitely uh is based on the river so we're tied pretty closely with you know all the other businesses in these river communities from from leadville bv you know buena vista all the way down salida canyon city all the little towns in between so everybody depends on the river yeah very cool um i guess yeah before i let you go

[00:28:59] anything else you want to chat about here or i think we covered most of it yeah most of it i think i think we pretty much um covered what the message is that people are still going um i think you still have fun out there and um i say the the party thing is be careful with fire because fire could be a bigger issue than anything you know it's like we want to make sure we don't burn here um with our

[00:29:27] conditions and uh and come and in raft and kayak or fish and um you know have a great time in the arkansas valley yeah that that can't be said enough but yeah well thank you so much for chatting with me today i learned a lot about uh what's going on with rafting this year in colorado sure anytime