We're back! In this episode of the OutThere Colorado Podcast, Spencer talks about his recent trip to Greece, as well as four bear attacks that occurred while he was away. Seth chats about a sandy beach found at 10,000 feet and some concerns that have been expressed about illegal activity at Colorado's 'other' dunes. Also – the Savannah Bananas game at Coors Field and Fat Marmot Week!
[00:00:06] Cool. Welcome to another episode of the The OutThere Colorado Podcast. Once again, I'm Spencer, here with Seth. Hey Spencer, good to have you back. Yeah, it's good to be back. Once again, we got Tim over there in the booth doing the audio and the video for the show. Yeah, we took about a week and a half off there. I took a trip abroad. I went to Greece and spent a night in Frankfurt. It was incredible.
[00:00:35] I was there for a buddy's wedding. Been around. Yeah, my friends, AJ and Katie, were tying the knot. Decided to do the destination wedding. Everything went perfectly, I will say. That was an absolutely beautiful wedding. Absolutely beautiful time in Greece. I've never been to Greece before at all whatsoever. We were on the island of Cephalonia. You've heard legends. Yeah, Cephalonia is right by Ithaca.
[00:00:58] I did see Ithaca from a distance. But yeah, island of Cephalonia, staying in Argestoli. I highly recommend it, man. It was more laid back. The way it was described to me by some of the locals too, a little bit less of an international destination and maybe more of Greek mainlanders, so to speak, like wanting to go to an island, they would avoid some of those more popular... Like a staycation for
[00:01:24] residents. Yeah, yeah. They would maybe avoid some of those more international destinations that get a lot of tourists from around the world and opt for something like Cephalonia. So, I see. Very walkable. Very safe the whole time. Like no sketchiness at all, which was really nice. Yeah, stayed in this little main square for a reasonably priced hotel. One of the top hotels.
[00:01:53] Honestly, for an international trip for a week, pretty affordable. Yeah. And yeah, dude, the food was insanely good. I was eating like three to four meals a day just to eat as much as I could eat. Gotta load it up while you're there, right? Yeah, I didn't need to be doing that, but I was doing that and not to be eating like rice and chicken for the next month to pay for it. But yeah, man, it was a big Italian influence on the island. So some of the best pastas I've ever had in my life.
[00:02:22] I had this one that was like, all the noodles are like handmade at all these restaurants and handmade daily. And it's like, it was like a spaghetti and like this mushroom cream sauce with portobello mushrooms on top and like truffle paste in the sauce. It was absolutely incredible. Yeah. Best pasta I've ever had in my life. Amazing Greek food as well. A lot of the meals for the actual like
[00:02:48] wedding events were all kind of served family style. So you just gotta try everything. And it was, it was incredible. Saw some beautiful beaches. Yeah. Saw some photos, man. Yeah. Beaches were cool. Uh, did a, did a little boat cruise around to a few beaches one of the days. Uh, that was really cool. Went into a cave on a kayak. That was always gotta go into a cave. Yeah. That was cool. Sea cave, where it's just, you go back and then, uh, bats everywhere. Very cool. Um, what else did we do? We
[00:03:17] did a little winery tour. Uh, so that was fun. Um, yeah, big, uh, big group dinner, um, on this like beachside restaurant, kind of up these terraces, which is overlooking this like bay kind of flanked by these two, two, you know, giant Rocky monoliths, similar to Red Rocks. We'll say in a way, um, had that sunset there and that was amazing. Uh, I did the day. So the day after the wedding,
[00:03:45] um, cause I rented a car, which was also wild. I've never driven. Yeah. I've never rented a car in a foreign country before and you drive on the same side of the road. Oh, you do. Okay. Yeah. Um, in Greece, but, uh, all the, uh, all the roads are like one and a half lanes wide for the most part. Like once you get off like their main couple of roads on the Island, um, and your car is a lot smaller, thankfully. Uh, but people definitely have a style of driving there where it's kind of like,
[00:04:11] we'll make it work as you're going at each other. And it always worked. The car was not damaged. Uh, proud to say that. Uh, but yeah, that was, that was interesting, but yeah, I did rent a car. So I went over to, uh, on the opposite side of the Island, uh, did two actual like cave tours. One of which is this massive, like open cavern where I think it was an earthquake that caused some rockfall to come in revealing this like giant pit of just like crystal blue water beneath it. Um,
[00:04:39] and I mean the pit was probably, I think they said it was up to like 30 meters deep in spots. So pretty deep water is like 90 feet or so. You dive in? Um, no, you're not allowed to do that. It's a little like, it was no way of getting out. Yeah. Right. Um, yeah. A little, pretty short little like boat tour around where you go out on this, this underground lake. Got it. Um, and people that have maybe seen the photos of, I want to say they're in, I want to say it's that cave in Thailand where there's like the open, open dome. And then there's like a cave inside of it, um, where it kind of forms.
[00:05:09] It's own like ecosystem in a sense, uh, similar to that. But imagine like a giant lake, giant crystal clear blue lake where you can see the rocks, like, you know, super 30, 50, 90 feet down. Um, so that was really cool. Then went into, went into another cave. Uh, that one's called a Melisana cave or Melisani cave. If I'm pronouncing that correctly, then went into a dog Racky cave, which reminded me of Dothraki.
[00:05:35] I was going to say that sounded, I was going to say Lord of the Rings or something, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So a dog Racky cave, I believe is, I believe I'm pronouncing and rumoring that correctly. Uh, but it was just filled with stalactites and stalagmites like wildly, like more than I've ever seen. Uh, not so much sparkly, but kind of having that, like that shape, that moisture glow to them where it shows they're still kind of growing. And that was just, you walk around by yourself,
[00:06:00] just exploring it. And that was really cool too. So, um, and then kind of capped that little road trip of mine with, uh, I ate a fish where they just serve you the full fish, you know? Oh, sure. Yeah. Uh, had a sea bream, um, literally with the ocean coming up to this little wall beside where I was sitting. So cool. And then looking at Ithaca in the distance. So very, very cool. Um, on the way back, we, uh, spent the night in Frankfurt, uh, 17 hour layover. So we had to decide, do we want to
[00:06:29] leave the airport? Do you want to sleep on the floor in the airport? Do we want to try to stay in some accommodation at the airport? We decided to leave, um, got to the hotel around 10 PM, which was a little bit late for eating some German cuisine there. But, uh, we did get to find a German pub, tried a few local beers, uh, tried some local street food. So that was really good. And yeah, I made it, made it back to the, uh, made it back to the, uh, hotel in time and left the hotel in
[00:06:57] time and took the train, uh, back to the airport in time. Everything went very smoothly. So great. Yeah. Yeah. That's about as great a weekend recap, I think, as we've ever done on the out there Colorado podcast. Yeah. I mean, I was, I was, it was a 10 day trip, including a day of travel on the front end, two days on the back end and seven days in the middle in Greece. So, um, yeah, very, uh, very much so a fun time. And now you're back in, uh, in lowly Colorado. Yeah. Nah, what a good
[00:07:27] place to come back. It is. It is a good place to come back. Yeah. I will say that the one thing that shocked me, man, the, uh, the water, right. And all the, cause you're on the GNC there. Um, and, uh, it just like, you know, 80, it felt like it was like 85 degrees. Like it was like warm water while you're in like, you know, you expect the typical like ocean water, right. But in that sea, very warm. Yeah. Like we, we were just hopping off the, that day we did the little boat tour,
[00:07:52] you know, just hopping off the boat, uh, kind of floating in the water, swimming in the water. The boat would park farther away from shore, probably like a hundred yards from shore. So yeah, man, I ate way too much food. Um, I will say also the pretzels in Germany lived up to the hype. Yes. Um, best pretzel of my life. Awesome. So very happy about that. It was just like sliced in half, pretty much a plain, I mean a very good, but plain pretzel. Otherwise, yeah. Sliced in half with
[00:08:20] salted butter and chives in it. And then just kind of melty cause it, you know, like room temperature melty butter. Why don't we do that here? I mean, we need to, but yeah. Yeah. I had like 10 pretzels to choose from. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I went with the most simple one. Spencer's pretzels kind of has a ring to it. There we go. Spencer's pretzels. Yeah. Yeah. We can come up with something. Um, yeah, but it's good to be back. Workshop that. I was, I was totally peaced out the whole time I was there. Sweet. Uh, pretty much for the
[00:08:47] most part, I did get a few random headlines from Colorado that popped up on my phone and such. Uh, one of which we're going to talk about here cause it's pretty wild. Um, yeah. I mean, how was Colorado is always doing wild stuff, you know, while you're going. How was, how was your time without me in the state? I, I went to a beach that I guess we'll talk about later here in Colorado where they're not too often, where they're not too common, especially in the Alpine. What? A beach high in the mountains.
[00:09:13] Stick around for more. Stick around for more. Um, when, when, uh, had visiting family in town this past weekend. So, uh, we went and popped around Boulder. I had a good pretzel, uh, on the rooftop of Levante. Oh yeah. Food hall there on Pearl street. That was pretty good. Probably not quite as good as your pretzel, but we were pretzel bros and we didn't even know it. Yeah. I was eating that. What was that? Saturday. Were you eating your pretzel? I was eating my pretzel. I don't know, man. That was travel time. So it was like, you don't even know what day of the week it is.
[00:09:42] Um, the group wanted to go to kind of drive out to the countryside there in Boulder out into the county to a acreage, which is a stem ciders like restaurant there and kind of a scenic hilltop. Um, it's a cool spot. I like getting stem cider every now and then. Yeah. You know, um, Sunday, I don't know. Uh, Oh, they came here. We went around guarding the gods and did kind of some touristy stuff, played that horse derby at the Manitou arcade. Oh yeah. He got
[00:10:11] some mugs to show that I'm a winner. People who are familiar of those elusive mugs. No, I've got two in my cabinet. Um, I think that's about it, man. Yeah. And we've talked about, uh, Manitou Penny arcade a few times before, but very cool spot. Yep. I've racked up lots of tickets for my, uh, I used to live in Manitou, so I'd be able to pop down and try my hand at ski ball and horse derby, you know, there you go. I'd be that hairy guy sitting alone
[00:10:41] across the horse derby, you know, with all these tourists, like who's this guy? Yeah, dude. Ski ball. I will say, uh, did you see a Nova West downtown is switching it up? Oh, uh, well, the one in old Colorado city, I saw it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nova West. Yeah. For, well, they're switching the concepts. I think the same owner is going to become a billiards hall. Glad you're clarifying. Hopefully they bring back the ski ball though. Last I heard those were, those had been taken out of there, but maybe they'll come back. Yeah. I feel like that's like
[00:11:09] the only place to play ski ball. It's at a bar in Colorado Springs, but I love playing ski ball too. So interesting. I can imagine there's a lot less maintenance with all those video games. Yeah. You know, I mean, I don't, I don't pretend another reason for the switch up, but my mind kind of went there. Well, I mean, I also love playing, playing pool. I do too. So like I would go there for that as well. You know, I wonder too, it's like a lot of the time you don't see a lot of people playing the games opposed to just sitting there
[00:11:35] and drinking and eating later at night, especially when that big, big portion of the crowd hits. So maybe some of the idea there is to capitalize on, on having something that people want to sit there and play for a while. It's going to have multiple tables as far as I understand. I think they were expanding a little bit to one of the directions. I wonder where the arcade games are going. I think, I think some of them are going back up to a supernova, the main kind of, so they might have more of a rotating stock. I'm, I'm kind of making this up as I go. Yeah. Just speculating.
[00:12:05] Just a little shout out. But yeah, I love your Cade. Yeah. I love a supernova. Love Nova West. I've been going there for a long time. So happy to, happy supernova will be sticking around. I'm excited to see what happens with the Nova West space here. Yeah. Sounds like you had a good, a good time. Yeah. So let's get into this. People don't want to hear about us anymore. Yeah. This, so sitting in Greece, I keep getting headlines about bear attacks.
[00:12:31] Yeah. Four bear attacks in one week in, in like a five day period. People think black bears very safe to be around compared to grizzlies. You know, they're like, you can scare them away. Or they're big raccoon, you know, not the case, not the case. Especially when they are hot and hungry. These bears are hot and hungry out there in Colorado. Food shortages in the back country have bears coming into a civilized, civilized areas in like really
[00:12:57] high numbers this year. Um, we've talked about this without that moisture in the winter, not as much food growing in their natural habitat. And hence that concern that they'd be coming into the city more. Yeah. And we haven't even hit that, like, uh, that stage of the year, like late summer, fall when they're really consuming calories. So, I mean, expect those numbers to go up. But this first attack of that week occurred on August 17th in the area of Eagle Vale,
[00:13:23] basically adult male, uh, leaving his, uh, laundry room at the, at an apartment building. Uh, female black bear swipes at him and, uh, he gets injured. Ultimately, uh, gets taken to a medical facility and is now recovering at home. Uh, next attack, August 18th. This one is pretty wild. Uh, occurred, uh, on Fish Creek Falls road or near Fish Creek Falls road in Steamboat Springs.
[00:13:48] Uh, a bear gained access to a home via a sliding glass door. A female resident attempted to chase the bear out, you know, haze it away. And, uh, when she did so, it struck her in the face, causing cuts, uh, drove herself to the hospital. Um, and, uh, was, was treated and released, uh, also at home recovering. Um, so third attack though, that took place, uh, this involved someone getting bit on the head by a bear. Uh, as Colorado Parks and Wildlife described it, uh,
[00:14:17] this took place at Aspen's Rio Grande Park. Um, a bear found someone who was experiencing homelessness and started sniffing him around 3 a.m. on August 19th. Uh, then bit him in the head, bit him on the head and apparently woke the man up. Uh, he was able to get out of his sleeping bag and escape the bear avoiding further injury, was transported to the hospital, uh, via ambulance. Um, yeah, another, and I mean, all these attacks are wild, like, uh,
[00:14:42] you know, but fourth attack also wild. Um, this one took place, uh, near the confluence of the Platte rivers in Jefferson County, uh, on August 21st, the man in his sixties had been fishing for, for the day. Uh, he was walking back to the trail parking lot, uh, not carrying any fish at the time, uh, when a sub-adult sow knocked him to the ground and started biting his legs. This attack was described as going on for several minutes, uh, before the man's,
[00:15:09] uh, or before witnesses, uh, described as a man's friends were able to scare the bear away. So, um, yeah, scary. And there's been six attacks that have occurred this year, four of which took place during that single August week. Yeah. And I think I heard, uh, year to year, uh, year to year, uh, for this time period, uh, bear reports are like double what they were last year, something like that. And, uh, and, you know, I mean, if, if, if we've, if anyone's ever wondered
[00:15:37] about the increased messaging from Colorado parks and wildlife over the years about bear safety and how, um, you know, to prevent, um, bear activity in town, I mean, we're seeing it, right? Like this, this was kind of the concern, right. That could happen. Yeah. There's like an unusual circumstances as you put it with, uh, food shortages out in their natural
[00:16:02] habitat, right. Uh, food isn't growing as abundantly due to drought. Um, and so yeah, they're coming into town more. Um, but yeah, these concerns have been lasting for a long while of what can happen with the growing population of people in bears. So all the more reason to heed some of that messaging about their safety for sure. And I mean, it's one of those things too, where it's like the bears are going to keep being active in these civilized areas. So, I mean, if this,
[00:16:29] this one week that just happened, um, is any indicator, like, you know, once September rolls around early October rolls around when those bears are really hungry before, uh, going into hibernation for the winter, you know? Yep. And comfortability, right. That's the big concern that bears get too comfortable, so to speak around people. Yeah. Yeah. This is what can happen when, when, when they get a little too comfortable, when you leave your trash out and let them know
[00:16:55] they can come around and get their food, right? When, yeah. Um, when you, when you don't haze like you should, right? Things like that. Yeah. And I wonder too, it's like, uh, you know, people always say just scare a black bear away, but I mean, clearly these cases show that sometimes scaring them away isn't as easy as us just telling you to try to haze them away sounds. Right. Like, yeah. Uh, if you want to, if you want to read up on, uh, uh, some real, you know,
[00:17:20] extreme things that can happen, look into what's been going on in Lake Tahoe in recent years. We had a bear boom around Lake Tahoe and that condensed population around Lake Tahoe, Lake Tahoe, pretty, pretty scary stuff. Bears going into convenience stores and like grabbing food off the shelves. Yeah. Well, even, I mean, the week before I left, uh, there was a bear that went into a hotel in Breckenridge. Saw that. Yeah. Uh, saw something at the fire department here
[00:17:45] stealing some equipment from the fire department. Yeah. Bear stole some, uh, a gear bag from a fire department. Um, the one that went into the, uh, Breck hotel, um, the officer essentially was using his taser to scare it away without like shooting a bear, but just kind of like clicking the taser, which I've always said is a great way to haze away a bear. I will say that I think on this show at some point years ago, I was like my favorite thing to do on a late night walk because my neighborhood does have a lot of bears in it, especially during fall. Uh, I carry like a
[00:18:14] little flashlight taser and if you see the bear, you know, you can just click it and it makes that little buzz sound and it, yeah. And then the bear was like, Oh, going to go away. So finally have some support for that theory. Um, finally feel comfortable promoting that theory. I'm not telling you to taste barriers. I'm telling you to click it and you will, you will see them run off. Um, but, uh, but yeah, essentially that bear went in, I think it stole some M&Ms I want to say. Uh, and
[00:18:40] then they were able to get out of the hotel with no injury, uh, to anyone or, uh, to the bear. So, but still, like you said, bears getting more comfortable going into people's spaces and, uh, yeah, I mean, anytime you have a wild animal, especially one with big claws and sharp teeth, that's hungry and a human that's surprised and everyone's surprised. I mean, always, always a risky situation. So don't, yeah. Have your wits about you people. Like you said, Spencer,
[00:19:06] it's getting to that time where they really got to start loading up before, uh, before hibernating. So they're going to be really out looking for food here. So, so have your wits. So I will say to move on to a, uh, another, another topic we wanted to discuss today. Um, Seth always sends me his list of things that he's, uh, he won't, he's wanting to talk about before the show. And, uh, one of them caught me by surprise. You're talking about a lake with a
[00:19:34] beach that's found at 10,280 feet in Rocky mountain national park. What's it called? Sand beach lake. Of course. Perfect name. Aptly named sand beach lake. Believe it or not, we've got a, a, uh, coastal looking beach scene above 10,000 feet surrounded by, by mountains, uh, in Rocky mountain national park. Um, it's relatively popular from what the park tells
[00:20:01] me from what Rocky mountain national park tells me, but, um, kind of hides out, uh, by the wild basin entrance for Rocky mountain national park, which is kind of Southeast of the main corridor through Estes park there. So, you know, I kind of think this, this wild basin area, um, is kind of an interesting, uh, place to put on your radar, uh, for maybe a little more secluded, uh, hiking. That was my experience recently hiking up to sand beach lake, not to be underestimated.
[00:20:30] It's four and a half miles up pretty steep. You're gaining about 2000 feet up from the trailhead there beside the wild basin entrance. Um, pretty strenuous, but you're rewarded with a wide beach where you might lay out your towel, get out your charcuterie, put your toes in the sand, pop open your book, soak in some rays. You can do that above 10,000 feet in Colorado. These photos would have known photos look absolutely beautiful. It does look like a legitimate beach.
[00:20:59] Like looking at a, there's like this sand, like there's people laying out on the sand at this, at this lake people go swimming. And so your natural question, Spencer has got to be, how is this possible? Yeah. Why don't we see this elsewhere? Right. So I got on the phone with a, uh, uh, professor of geology at the university of Colorado. Lon Abbott has been here in Colorado all his life, exploring the high country. Um, and at least from his view, he's not aware of a scene like this
[00:21:27] elsewhere in Colorado. And he digged around to figure out, uh, to get to the bottom of the same question I had, how is this possible? Right. Due to both natural and man-made, uh, factors, curiously enough on the natural side, kind of start with, um, sand beach lake finds itself wild basin. Uh, for that matter is like one of the wider basins, um, in Rocky mountain national park. Um,
[00:21:54] so meaning not as like V shaped, maybe as you might see other where you might see other alpine lakes, right along these steep slopes. And why is that important in this regard? Because in those steeper slopes, um, you might see water, uh, capable of carrying down boulders and rocks and filling the ground, um, with kind of rocky material as opposed to sand, right? Where sand can really build up in a more
[00:22:19] gentle valley. Finer sediment essentially. Indeed. And it does build up at the bottom of alpine lakes, particularly surrounded by granite peaks as sand beach lake is don't want to get too sciencey on California, but granite peaks, uh, essentially break down over to contain quartz, which, uh, breaks down over time into sand. Uh, and it's able to really settle there nicely around sand beach
[00:22:43] lake, just how it's, uh, situated there in that valley. So that's important. Um, but in terms of how, again, this wide beach appears, goes back to the early 1900s when this lake was dammed to raise its level to increase its storage for, uh, users downstream in Longmont specifically. So that water used to be higher up until the late 1980s, uh, when a leak, uh, a leak was found, uh, to be a hazard.
[00:23:12] And so they removed the dam, water lowered, revealing the beach, the sand that had been building up over that time. Oh, wow. So here we have sand beach lake, um, due to these kind of fairly unique factors. Um, super cool place, super cool little history there, at least that I found to be interesting. Um, things to know, you know, this time of year, um, through much of October, you gotta have, um,
[00:23:42] that timed entry reservation for hiking in Rocky mountain national park for wild basin entrance. Those reservations are required between 9am and 2. You can go in before nine without a reservation. And if you're making a day hike of it, probably a good idea to get there super early. Um, camping, there's camping along the way and kind of off the shore. They're really beautiful camping. Really? Dang. Um, probably like at least, what is it? At least a hundred yards from the water.
[00:24:10] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. It's kind of up in the trees a little bit. Um, gotta have a, uh, permit for back country camping. Okay. So those are some things to know, uh, before you go. Very cool. But well-maintained trail, um, with that expectation of management, I can hear the cries already. Why are you giving these places away? And you and me kind of go back to this long conversation about we should all get the chance to be inspired by these places and all the better when we talk about
[00:24:38] places that have this management like we have there at Rocky mountain national park, like we have ranger station right beside this trailhead there. Um, it's looked over it's cared for. Um, and people can do their part in also caring for it and enjoying that lovely beach above 10,000 feet. Yeah. It is good to see even on the, uh, rock mountain national park website for sand beach lake starts off with the seven principles of leave no trace too. So, uh, always important. And yeah,
[00:25:05] I mean, like you, like you said to echo that, uh, we do, uh, we are careful with what places we talk about and that having that management system in place. And I mean, this is one of the most popular national parks in the country. Like there's no shortage of people visiting this spot already. It might sound like I'm talking about sand beach lake. Like it's some secret. It's not, it's not a secret. You could, you could fight a lot about it. We do have other lakes that we don't talk about that are on that note real quick, man. Maybe it's
[00:25:31] just me finding this interesting talking about that aforementioned, uh, geologist that I spoke with just a wealth of information, Lon Abbott at the University of Colorado. I don't know if I realized this, but like geologically speaking, like Alpine lakes, as he put it, are like very ephemeral features, meaning they're not around forever. Right. Yeah. That makes sense. Like as you're going up Alpine valleys and you might see like a lush looking meadow that could have been like a lake or a tarn a hundred years ago, a thousand years ago, they get sedimented in.
[00:26:01] Yeah. By what we're just talking about sand or rock or like sand crystal. We've talked about that before where, uh, that one is slowly filling up over time. Colorado's second largest natural lake. Yeah. Um, granted, I think, what was it by, it was like a thousand years at least if I remember correctly or something like it's going to be around for a while, but, um, coming off that slumgolian slide, it's a landslide above it. That's filling in that lake out in Lake City.
[00:26:28] I'm remembering that. Uh, I forget how long the USGS said it would be until it's filled in, but in none of our lifetimes. Yeah. Unless there's some sort of a crazy cataclysmic rock slide or something that takes place, but. Emphasize geologically speaking, right? A thousand years is not all that long geologically speaking. Yeah. It was, it was shorter than like eons and eons. Like I forget how long it was, but I don't know. A thousand feels right. Yeah. You know, maybe 2,500. I don't know.
[00:26:54] Anyway, imparting a little Alpine Lake education that I was getting. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool stuff. I mean, the photos look absolutely beautiful. So I'm shocked. I haven't heard more about this, uh, in the past. Yeah. Like I said, I think, I think wild basin kind of gets a little overlooked. Yeah. I think it benefits from sitting over in that, that corner closer to Allen's park. And it's like, I don't know, 15 miles or so. Yeah. From Estes Park up highway seven. Yeah. You know, kind of hides out there. You wouldn't even think it's part of the national park, right?
[00:27:22] Called wild basin for a reason. Exactly. Um, so speaking of sand, yeah, a great, uh, great transition today where we have multiple sand stories, um, multiple sand stories in, uh, the same episode. Um, but so you were telling me a little bit and you published a story here that I'll just read the headline. That's probably the best way to describe what's going on. Uh, but feedback shows
[00:27:47] a growing sense of danger at sand dunes in Colorado and not talking about the great sand dunes, talking about the, uh, North Hill or North Sand Hills recreation area, the lesser known sand dunes in Northwest Colorado, closer to Walden kind of bordering state forest state park, that beautiful state park out there. Um, overlooked by the medicine bow mountains there. It's been long
[00:28:11] overlooked by the Bureau of land management, which calls it like the only open sand dune area for OHV travel, right? For side-by-sides ATVs and dirt bikes. Pretty unique, very unique in Colorado. Uh, the only place for that, um, as, as the Bureau of land management has called it, we've talked about this before, man. Um, Colorado parks and wildlife like early this year alongside the Bureau of land management announced, um, coming up with a new form of management for that area with CPW getting more
[00:28:41] in the day-to-day in the boots on the ground. And as planning is progressing toward an eventual management plan for this designated recreation area, which would be managed very much like a state park when you imagine campgrounds and other in bathrooms and other amenities and fees, but not as not a state park. You did mention that, but just so people catch that not a state park.
[00:29:04] Yeah. Yeah. But similarly managed with fees for upkeep and staff. Um, but yeah, as, as planning is progressing and as these meetings are progressing, I'm kind of just learning more and more about, uh, how this really all came to light. And yeah, there was kind of some big language used at the, at a recent meeting, um, going over survey results and kind of what CPW is gathering from people.
[00:29:28] And, um, that is like you said, uh, this quote unquote growing sense of danger. That's straight from the words of a, of an official with CPW, um, going over some of these survey results, right? And I'll just continue quoting this official, um, with survey responses reporting dangerous driving, um, on these sand dunes, right? Uh, excessive speeding through campsites, uh, quote unquote,
[00:29:56] alcohol and weapons have also been mentioned multiple times. There's been reports of individuals fighting, shooting firearms from moving vehicles, setting off fireworks during fire restrictions and alcohol use, end quote. Um, you know, there's people calling for mandatory flagging on vehicles to avoid collisions. Um, there's calls for exclusively motorized use, no hiking or anything on the sand dunes
[00:30:25] other than this motorized, uh, traffic. That's going to be part of this ongoing conversation that's going on toward planning. Um, you know, there's complaints about people pumping up their music too loud at night, you know, kind of as this picture is getting painted of kind of this, uh, area that's seen some reckless behavior over the years. Um, that said, uh, surveying so far, right. Um,
[00:30:49] through much of August showed like 69% of people describing their experience at North Sandhills as quote unquote, excellent or good. Right. So that has to be said, you know, I'm, I'm bringing up these details and it sounds like there's this picture of this place of outlaws and wild west. And clearly there's elements of that, but people clearly still enjoying themselves. Um, but CPW
[00:31:14] still describing those survey results as, um, you know, not getting anything extreme quote unquote on the positive or negative side. So hence this effort to maybe improve the experience, get law enforcement on the ground. They're reporting two full-time law enforcement officers started this summer there. Um, you're seeing an entrance station already going into the park. So already we're starting to see what this new management, uh, could look like in the years to come.
[00:31:43] And to round out the percentages you said, you said 69%, uh, excellent or good. Another 25% saying fair and only 6% saying poor. Yeah. So only, only 6% saying poor, uh, is this open? So is it a spot where people can be at 24 hours a day? I would assume like there's camping in the dunes and like, can you be riding your dirt bike around it? My understanding is there's camping by, uh, by the dunes. So, you know, there's overnight activity for sure
[00:32:12] throughout there. It's seasonal. Um, starting December 15th and April through April 15th for wintering wildlife, it's been closed. Okay. I know that much. Um, and then it sees like anywhere else, you know, there's a lot of talk about big traffic on, uh, weekends, especially holiday, holiday weekends. Well, and I think especially, uh, with this move to move under Colorado parks and wildlife, you know, uh, that will probably bring a lot more attention to it potentially to where it's like all
[00:32:41] of a sudden, if you think like things like collisions or collision risk is a hazard right now, double the number of people riding around on the dunes and that inherently would probably be even more of a risk. Um, another element of this, there's people who've pointed out that some people blame congestion on some parts of the dunes that have been closed off is my understanding in recent years. There's been fencing that's popped up in recent years and that's,
[00:33:09] that's come out of this partnership, um, that seeks to improve the health of the Creek running by the sand. So there's been a lot of concern about some of this travel, um, sending sentiment down into that waterway and affecting, uh, the health of that Creek and downstream, um, agriculture. That's a big element here is my understanding, you know, um, what, what could that look like? You know, are those
[00:33:38] closures going to stay in place? Are there other ways of protecting that CPW brought this up and said, you know, they, they hope to have a positive impact on that partnership. So that could, you know, that's going to be part of the discussion for sure. But yeah, to your point, I mean, there's always, whenever there's talk of a new quote unquote recreation area, as this is being called or a quote unquote state park, there's always concern about what does that mean for marketing? Right.
[00:34:06] Uh, there's kind of this, this two sided coin of perhaps that means more people. And also that most definitely means more boots on the ground, more eyes, you know, more CPW funding going toward management there. So it goes a little both ways. I mean, I'll also say like, it seems like it'd be a hard situation to manage with, with, uh, off highway vehicles on sand dunes, just because it's one of
[00:34:32] those things where it's like, there's not like a road you follow and like tracking out a road to follow would probably just, you know, add to the congestion even more and make it more complicated. Kind of sounds like a free-for-all. Yeah. In a way, like in almost a way that where it's inherently a free-for-all it's kind of like, you look at the great sand dunes, it's like, um, people can walk all over the great sand dunes anywhere they want, you know? So it's like, imagine that with vehicles to kind of create a potential picture for that. It sounds fun to me.
[00:34:57] Like I would love to take an ADD on it. I see the appeal. Um, I'd be a little scared to take my dirt bike on it, not knowing how to ride on sand. I know there's been a lot of advocacy too, on the part of OHV groups to try to, uh, you know, build, um, you know, impart good best practices in ways of the sand. Yeah. Ways of the road, ways of the sand, right? So there's, there's been some of that over there as well, for sure, is my understanding.
[00:35:25] You know anything about how resilient the actual dunes themselves are? Cause like, if you look at great sand dunes, there's a whole natural process where the sand blows away, gets stuck in the 14 years, snowmelt brings it down back into the sand dunes where the sand dunes, the great sand dunes look roughly the same year after year after year, uh, as that sand replenishes, uh, via Madonna Creek. Um, granted this year, maybe not as much sand replenishing and maybe not as much
[00:35:51] being brought down. It's a good question, man. Yeah. I'd wonder if there's a similar, like, natural system in place that keeps these dunes looking what they look like, or if this could be similar to that, like Alpine Lake where, you know, once that sand blows away, maybe, you know, 50 years from now, a hundred years from now, maybe there's just less and less sand being blown out somewhere else. Benefits to some extent from its remoteness, right? Great sand dunes in pretty easy
[00:36:18] shot of front range populations. Not so much the North Sand Hills for sure up in that Northwest corner of the state. I wonder how far that is from Colorado Springs. I'm going to say four, uh, four and a half hours right around there. All right. Let's say, uh, North Sand Hills directions to what steamboat is a little under four hours. Could be farther out. I think about it.
[00:36:44] All right. What'd you say? Four and a half. Yeah. See in about four hours. So, I mean, but then you start thinking like, okay, let's say, uh, golden though, you know, like, or like Denver even like, yeah, going up three hours, 15 minutes, very populated area there. So going up through Fort Collins on that side of the front range for sure. Yeah. I could see where, I could see where as more and more, um, yeah, as more eyes get on it, including via Colorado parks and wildlife
[00:37:13] and, uh, what see, is all of that finalized? What the, the plan for them to do it is correct. They'll most, they're most definitely going to be on the ground as far as what use is going to look like, what fee structure is going to look like, what kind of infrastructure gets put in place. That's all in planning right now. Yeah. Yeah. I could see that. Uh, I could see it getting more popular still early in the conversation is my understanding, but, um, yeah, it's been
[00:37:40] interesting to follow cause it's just such a unique area with such a unique situation. It seems like going on over there. Hey, uh, to move to a totally unrelated topic from that. Oh, I will say too, I forgot to include this in my week, weekend update. Oh, I went to the Savannah bananas game. So did Tim big banana fan. We both went, uh, Tim thought my description of it feeling like you're living inside of a Tik TOK was pretty accurate. That's fun. Not on this side over there. Uh, side of a Tik TOK.
[00:38:08] Yeah. Like you, you'll be like, am I watching baseball? I don't know. Then all of a sudden Kristen Bell is singing out of nowhere and, and like doing a dance performance in the middle of the field. Uh, they did do the game that is my favorite game where they put the baby on or the toddler on the ground and have them run to their favorite parent. Um, I think the dad, uh, this year, uh, it was pretty cute though. He's running from the third baseline immediately just face plants and gets up and goes. It was cute. It was cute, but, uh, dude, it was fun.
[00:38:37] It was worth going. They are so much more popular. Had a hard time to say than seemingly the Rockies. Oh, I mean, it's not even in the stadium, not even a contest, man. It's another sold out year. You know, what is that? 52,000 people or something at the Rocky stadium and back to back games. How many people do the Rockies get? I don't know. Like what's their, what's it? Rocky's average attendance is here. Can't be good, but Hey, at least there's some fun baseball going on. It's hardly baseball, right?
[00:39:05] I hate bananas play better. 28,000. It says on a via Google AI. So that seems better than I've seen in some games were down in like, I want to say like 10,000 and they're in the teens last year. Um, okay. 28. So half the, half the audience of the Savannah bananas game is what they are, what they are attracting, um, as they rank, uh, team that just came into existence in the past
[00:39:31] 10 years. Yeah. And the bananas been around, uh, less than 10 years. I think I know. Yeah. They played the Indian came out of the COVID. They played the Indianapolis clowns when I was there. So I had to buy some, uh, I flip sides halfway through the game. I was like, I got a cheer for the Indiana team. So now I have an Indianapolis clowns hat. Maybe I'll wear that on the show here soon. Got a shirt too. Um, so yeah, Indianapolis clowns, newest fan. Um, yeah. What else, what else do we have today? You want to talk about some fat marmots real quick? Oh,
[00:40:01] fat marmots. Provide a shout out to this brewery. Might be close, but I think people who listen to the show today, they, they have an opportunity to support the marmots via beer purchase. But yeah, what do you, what do you got about fat marmots? Did you hear about fat marmot week going on? I saw some Denver Gazette reporting on it. I also saw the reporting that there was the only marms, uh, opened up on, on, uh, only fans, uh, in support of the marmots on, saw that on different Gazette as well. So tell me about it though. We all know, we all know fat bear,
[00:40:31] right. The, uh, bracket style competition for, uh, the, uh, chunkiest of Bruins, uh, at a national park and preserve and Alaska in Alaska, what that's been going on for, I think 10 years now. The Katmai national park and preserve. Yeah. So now Colorado has its own fat marmot week. There we go. I like it. And yeah, I mean, for people who didn't know, just like bears,
[00:40:56] got to get burly, got to get chunky for hibernation. Marmots very much the same. They're known to double or triple their size leading into the winter to get through the winter. So, uh, it's kind of calling attention to that. It's all an extension of this long going marmot project, uh, at the Rocky Mountain biological laboratory in Gothic there. Said to be the second longest going wildlife study behind only Jane Goodall's gorilla studies, which is wild. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing.
[00:41:26] Or I guess her chimp research in Tanzania. So all for marmots, man. Yeah. I'm hoping to learn some more about what they've learned over the decades, going back to the sixties. I want to say, uh, hoping to get on the phone with some folks over there to learn some more about their observations and research over the years. But indeed, you know, Fat Marmot Week is kind of calling attention, uh, to, uh, to these guys, to these marmots and to what,
[00:41:50] uh, that, uh, nonprofit has been doing over the years by, by crested butte. So voting is going on right now. I think, uh, yes. Final round voting is the 28th. That's Monday, right? No, that's Friday. And the chunky champion is going to be crowned on Saturday. There we go. According to, uh, the press release. So, uh, I will say, uh, you're right that the
[00:42:16] Marmot Project started in 1962. Um, one of the interesting things, uh, one of their big research areas, right? Is this Marmot, uh, I think it's called a, what is it called? Uh, I think it's like a murder or no, it's not a murder. It's, um, like how, like their family groups are, uh, they have a funny name. Oh, madness, a madness of marmots. Is that right? Yeah. Madness of marmots
[00:42:41] or a colony, but a madness of marmots as well. Uh, but it's this group of marmots up in crested butte. Um, and they've been studying, studying this group for a long time. And, uh, they look at a hundred and, or this last year, they were looking at 160 observed animals. Uh, only 60 of them made it through winter. So people might associate that lack of snowpack with being a milder winter when in reality, that snow tends to add a lot of insulation for these animals that might be
[00:43:09] burrowing underground during the winter. Right. Which I believe, uh, believe marmot. Yeah. They, they burrow underground in the winter. Uh, so a lot of them froze to death. So, um, it was called the second largest observed die off, uh, of the Crested Butte Marmot colony. Much to learn about marmots. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I mean, similar conditions were prevalent throughout Colorado. So I would imagine marmot numbers are maybe struggling, you know, up in the, up in the Alpine. Without that snow, my understanding is it makes them more visible
[00:43:37] and vulnerable to predators. Also just like bears, their food sources struggle to grow without that moisture coming in. Also contributing to that challenge. And no insulation. Yeah. Right. They freeze to death. Um, so, uh, we're recording this right now on August 26th, unfortunately. Uh, but fortunately for you, if you're listening to it on right now, um, today,
[00:44:01] as we publish this, uh, and tomorrow through August 27th, Denver beer company is, uh, accepting crowler pre-orders for their upcoming only marms extra thick double IPA. So if you want to, if you want to support the marmots, a dollar from every crowler and pint of the beer that's sold. Uh, so presumably maybe you can get a pint now or later at that brewery as well. Uh, but a dollar will go to the Rocky Mountain Biological Laboratory to support marmot research. So laboratory,
[00:44:29] their hope was to get, uh, to turn some eyes to marmots, to turn some eyes to their research. And I think they've been pretty dang successful. They did. They did. I think it's been a hit. Yeah. From what I can tell. Yeah. The only marms was a big, uh, a lot of people were talking about that for sure. Internationally talking about that too, if you want to be honest. Um, they did a few other things too. Uh, they also launched a meme coin. Saw that. So that's funny. Um, uh, then yeah,
[00:44:57] fat marmot week, obviously, uh, with this whole social media campaign built around that and then yeah, partnership with the Denver beer company. You can order that on the Denver beer company website or make that reservation. I don't know. It's, there's a, there's a page on there where you can, you can figure it out. You're always smart people. The marketing, uh, was successful. I would say. Yes. A lot more people know what marmots are that are outside of Colorado now. Yeah. So,
[00:45:20] um, they do. Yeah. I wonder how, how much weight they gain. Uh, I've heard they double or triple their size. Yeah. So let's see. How much does a, what do they weigh? Largest of the squirrel family. I know that much worse at climbing trees. I would assume when they're weighing up to 13 pounds. We'd like to see that according to Colorado public radio, so up to 13 pounds. Yeah. Honestly,
[00:45:45] I was expecting a little bit more, but I'll take 13 pounds. Yeah. Good old yellow belly, yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow, yellow belly, yellow belly, yellow belly marmots, yellow bellied marmots weighing up to 13 pounds in Colorado. Go vote for your favorite. Yeah. Go vote. Let your voice be heard. Who is the chunkiest of marmots? Yeah. With that, I think that's about all we got for the day. Uh, got an exciting topic related to pretzels for next time, but we'll save it for then. More
[00:46:14] pretzels? I want to talk about pretzels again. We started with pretzels and we're going to end with pretzels. Next time we will be discussing even more pretzels. So, um, yeah, I think that's about it. Sweet. I love dots. Shout out to dots. Where'd you go? Dots pretzels. There we go. You're talking about soft pretzels. I'm talking about the bag. Yeah. Yeah. The bag dots are good. Dots are good. I always just go with the Snyder's I think, right? That's the standard. Yeah. Yeah. Had a
[00:46:38] bunch of those in my, uh, my snack pack on the way to Greece. Like I was like, I've never brought a snack pack on an airplane before, but I'm like, this is a long travel day flight, et cetera. Yeah. I'm going to bring some snacks. So I had like a large amount of snacks. Like I'm surprised I didn't get stopped. Yeah. And they're like, how do you have this many different types of snacks in this giant and two giant Ziploc baggies? Uh, but all was good. And I was snacking on my favorite snacks on the, throughout both flights. So you were doing the, as the marmots
[00:47:07] do a precursor of the amount of calories I was about to consume the next seven days. Um, but yeah, I think that's about all we got for today before we go down the rabbit hole or the marmots. Yeah. The marmots. Um, until next time I'm Spencer. We'll see you out there.