In this episode of the OutThere Colorado Podcast, Spencer and Sam chat about a missing hiker case, the presence of nuclear weapons in Colorado, a controversial wild horse round-up, a heroic 12-year-old, and more. Enjoy!
Feel free to shoot us an email at info@outtherecolorado.com with questions, feedback, comments, and more.
[00:00:00] Welcome to The OutThere Colorado Podcast. I'm Spencer and I'm here with Sam and today we're going to chat about a few Colorado topics.
[00:00:08] Yeah, I've been in a nice week, you know, I feel like it's the last week of a true sunshine, you know what I mean?
[00:00:15] Yeah, yeah, I mean it's getting cold this weekend, of course it's going to be like 80 again within two weeks but like starting to feel like fall.
[00:00:22] Yeah, I got some snow in the forecast. Report yesterday said 21 inches mountainforecast.com reports that 21 inches on pikes peak wild.
[00:00:33] Nukes coming days, that has since been lowered but collides kind of with the pikes peak marathon in a sense so that would be interesting for runners even if there's any snow on the trail.
[00:00:43] Yeah, the pikes peak of sand alone is 13 miles and almost 8,000 feet of gain. So yeah, I mean the marathon's a following day so I still could be on the ground.
[00:00:55] We'll see.
[00:00:56] Yeah, I mean with those conditions, I feel like it's up to each runner, you know, to decide what's up to them like or I don't know.
[00:01:04] It doesn't feel like they're going to cancel it.
[00:01:06] Yeah, they're bear with us here too. If you're a laughter, I'm in this chair and it's kind of lowering that.
[00:01:13] I've got half an inch every 30 seconds. You want this?
[00:01:16] Oh, let's just see where this takes me. Okay. Okay.
[00:01:19] Those are the method of the ground faster by.
[00:01:22] Yeah, let me grab this.
[00:01:23] So my computer is going to be out of reach this chair.
[00:01:26] Okay, do we want to just retake that intro or just keep going?
[00:01:29] Yeah, I think it's not. Okay.
[00:01:30] Here we go.
[00:01:31] There we go.
[00:01:32] We'll be even better for serving you up some Colorado news. Exactly.
[00:01:39] The first story we're going to talk about today involves a missing hiker.
[00:01:45] But kind of some bear sweet news in that case.
[00:01:49] Michelle Vanic. She was 35 years old when missing in 2005.
[00:01:56] So almost exactly 19 years ago on the diet.
[00:02:00] She was trying to hike, now the Holy Cross with a friend experience triathlete.
[00:02:08] But was not super experienced in high elevation travel, essentially.
[00:02:13] They were trying to pick a peak.
[00:02:16] Her name is friends settle on this peak as a good first 14er, so to speak.
[00:02:22] The peak's really straight in the valley area.
[00:02:25] No matter what route you take up it, it's a lot of up and down a lot of vertical.
[00:02:30] But the trail is pounded back in 2005. You got to imagine there's probably quite a bit less traffic on Colorado's 14ers.
[00:02:38] So having to get trails definitely helpful there.
[00:02:41] But essentially what happened during that day is her and her friend set out to the trailhead.
[00:02:49] The trail they intended to take up the mountain was there was some down trees or dirt pile or something that was kind of blocking that from their visibility.
[00:03:00] So they end up on the halo ridge route which is significantly more difficult and significantly longer.
[00:03:07] Yeah, yeah longer with the differences but I can look it up while we're.
[00:03:11] Yeah, maybe we looked at up on chat in here.
[00:03:14] But yeah, so significantly more difficult.
[00:03:18] And essentially they start on this trail thinking they're on the correct trail.
[00:03:23] It isn't until they're pretty far into the trail where they figure out they're not on the right trail or at least they're intended trail.
[00:03:31] At this point Michelle's already experiencing some symptoms of elevation sickness.
[00:03:37] I think a headache in nausea were two of the symptoms that she had.
[00:03:43] Also, she starts to get a little bit dehydrated as they're going to ran out of water at one point and just starts to get overall exhausted.
[00:03:52] So there are about 400 yards from the summit at the point where she essentially tells her hiking partner to kind of.
[00:04:00] Make that final push with outer.
[00:04:04] The hiking partner reluctantly agrees to do that under this decision that she's going to either wait for him to return to that spot where he's leaving her behind or she's going to start back down the trail and he's just going to meet up with her after.
[00:04:20] At some point on the trail, you know, once he hits that something pops off.
[00:04:25] And then she's never seen again. So.
[00:04:30] A lot of searches have taken place over the years.
[00:04:33] The hiking partner essentially looked for a little bit in that area as some other hikers also headed up the trail.
[00:04:40] If they had seen her, they said no.
[00:04:43] And then he calls the authorities search party launch that day.
[00:04:46] Early searches in the case in those next few days.
[00:04:50] We're kind of hammered by some wintery weather moving in again, this is September.
[00:04:56] So you never know what's what's in store kind of in the mountains of that point.
[00:05:00] Yeah, I'm some big snowstorms can roll through with that time of the year.
[00:05:04] Not that happened to be the case covered a lot of the area with snow so it made it really difficult to find any clues related to her disappearance.
[00:05:13] I want to be until 2023 when I think it was a father and a son.
[00:05:19] We're on a hike on that route.
[00:05:21] And they found one of her hiking boots that had been there for years and obviously was had deteriorated and just do the elements.
[00:05:32] But they found one of our hiking boots about 10 feet from the trail, actually at an elevation of I think it was about 11,700 feet.
[00:05:41] So, find this hiking boot and that was it.
[00:05:45] There were no other clues at the time that we're found.
[00:05:49] But then this year rolls around and other search parties out there looking for any sort of clue.
[00:05:54] They find some clothing layers, a backpack and some trekking poles that are believed to be Michelle's.
[00:06:03] So, which is so weird that they were all like stashed together.
[00:06:06] Yeah, and I made her.
[00:06:07] Especially yeah, and then no no no body or anything like that was found no biological evidence as far as I've heard.
[00:06:17] But still enough to maybe lead authorities to conclude that she did not make it off the mound that day.
[00:06:27] Yeah, I mean the boot and itself's pretty damning evidence.
[00:06:29] Yeah, just people want to generally leave a boot behind.
[00:06:35] Nothing's been confirmed yet in terms of her deaths by any means.
[00:06:44] But the evidence kind of might point to that unfortunate outcome.
[00:06:49] Yeah, and yeah, I mean ultimately there might be some closure for the family with their discovery of those items and kind of the conclusion that it leads to.
[00:06:58] You might lead one to believe.
[00:07:01] Yeah, again, no official confirmation of death by any means but there is a little bit more evidence in that case that might ultimately lead to that conclusion.
[00:07:12] So that was kind of the discovery was praised by law enforcement and people that had been involved in the search just in the fact that it is some some clues that could be used to determine more information.
[00:07:24] Yeah exactly.
[00:07:25] I think it's a little bit of a mystery because it's such I mean it's all question marks right now, you know what I mean.
[00:07:31] Yeah, it feels like you know and officials officials did rule out foul play pretty quickly.
[00:07:37] I guess the Michelle owner has been or significant other at the time I forget what their exact status was.
[00:07:46] But they were friends with this gentleman she was hiking with and that gentleman significant other for me a bit of time and yeah, they ruled out any sort of foul play.
[00:08:00] For the most part at least as that last report.
[00:08:03] Yeah, it doesn't seem like this would would.
[00:08:07] Generating you sort of suspicion there either is exactly seems like yeah, it seems like someone.
[00:08:13] Then then my very unofficial opinion it seems like okay so we're someone suffering from altitude sickness and a lot of the potentially the cognitive impairment that comes along with that.
[00:08:24] Yeah, especially when you consider that exhaustion yeah got off trail got confused and just ultimately may have succumb to the elements.
[00:08:33] But yeah, very very scary case just in the sense that there's a lot of high curves up on Colorado's peaks every every single day and that mean there's a lot of risk that comes with that and it's definitely risk that just that mean you kind of have to accept when you're going above.
[00:08:51] Yeah above tree line preparations key obviously.
[00:08:55] Always know your routes speaking of preparation and routes.
[00:08:59] The difference between the amount of the Holy Cross Halo Ridge route and that the usual route is a Halo Ridge route is 15 miles out and back 15.2 and then the other route is 10.5 miles out and back.
[00:09:12] Yeah, so significantly.
[00:09:13] I think a lot of a bit more up and down and a bit more above tree line travel to yeah well and it goes over some peaks like the Halo Ridge route like you're going over mountains.
[00:09:24] To get to the final destination.
[00:09:26] Yeah, and that's always difficult when you're on a 14 or out.
[00:09:29] Up and down is some of the most exhausting aspect of the route a lot of time.
[00:09:34] Yeah, a lot of the time.
[00:09:37] Yeah, I mean obviously like this does go to show.
[00:09:41] I mean as that preparations key and making sure you're on the route that you want to be on just going to expect ultimately.
[00:09:47] Yeah, knowing throughout yourself.
[00:09:49] I mean yeah, if you can't speak to what altitude sickness does to you.
[00:09:53] What the elements do to you, but yeah knowing throughout yourself is definitely.
[00:09:59] Definitely key.
[00:10:00] Yeah, and also I mean if you do get lost on the trail.
[00:10:04] Searching rescue time and time again they say call them sooner than later.
[00:10:08] Yeah, a lot of people tend to think that some sort of burden or embarrassment to call search.
[00:10:13] Yeah, which kind of can prevent people from calling immediately.
[00:10:18] Even if you think there might be a little bit of an embarrassment there.
[00:10:21] Yeah, hackers at play still call search and rescue as soon as possible.
[00:10:26] Carrier satellite base GPS emergency communication device like a government in reach.
[00:10:33] A lot of a lot of iPhones and other smart phones now also like to contact emergency services.
[00:10:38] That makes me feel safer when I'm out there when I see that little like I'm looking at my phone.
[00:10:44] You know what I mean? And I see that little SOS like optional the call for SOS.
[00:10:49] Yeah, that's really I mean yeah. I don't know. I've never had a garm in but but my iPhone comes with that capability now which is so nice.
[00:10:57] Yeah and and I do have a garm and I use that pretty frequently just to text my friends from the summit like hey I made it up here.
[00:11:07] Yeah, I'm about an hour behind or whatever.
[00:11:10] Yeah, I'm always a little bit behind what I expect.
[00:11:12] Yeah, but what I know where I'm at when I'm going to be home kind of given them that line.
[00:11:18] Yeah, I'm the field also yeah, garm and just came out with they just announced they're going to have a new type of technologies.
[00:11:26] Let's see sitting photos and videos.
[00:11:28] I believe via their satellite devices or the real one.
[00:11:33] That's why it might be specific products. I don't have the press release in front of me right now, but pretty cool technology in that regard.
[00:11:39] Yeah, especially if someone's hurt. Yeah, you can send photo and video of that injury to search and rescue personnel so they know what to prepare for.
[00:11:49] Yeah, and take a photo of where you're at like I don't know if you're not as experienced.
[00:11:54] Don't know don't know the exact chords we're here at.
[00:11:57] I mean, I'm guessing that actually the garm and devices can provide you with chords pretty easily.
[00:12:01] Yeah, yeah, they they'll send the GPS coordinates along with a message, but I mean even still the GPS coordinates relatively exactly.
[00:12:08] But when you're in rocky terrain, yeah, photo, photo, visual aspect, not element in that message is definitely going to make it easier for you search and rescueers just to see what's up.
[00:12:20] Yeah, just be aware of the situation.
[00:12:22] Yeah, maybe you're off a little screen field and kind of cliff out like they're going to be aware of that.
[00:12:28] Just more information is always better. Yeah, so yeah, all things all things to kind of keep in mind there.
[00:12:36] Yeah, that story is definitely a bit of a downer. Yeah, definitely very sweet, but in the sense of maybe there's some closure there, but on a happier note.
[00:12:47] Search and rescue case that recently happened or I guess that really there wasn't search and rescue involved but another outdoor incident.
[00:12:56] She ended up being saved by a 12 year old that had a garner which is pretty wild.
[00:13:01] Well, and when I read this headline, I mean, I can't like if I read a headline that reads 12 year old with gun at my immediate thought is oh no.
[00:13:11] You know what I mean that it was 12 year old with gun saves father during hunting trip gone wrong, you know what I mean? That's that's really you think.
[00:13:19] Yeah, right.
[00:13:20] Yeah, that was a kind of my thought to I mean the just the idea of a 12 year old with the gun is I think what caught my attention when I saw this you saw the information probably not good first place.
[00:13:32] Yeah, and yeah, so basically what happened, this one's out of Wisconsin.
[00:13:36] 12 year old and his 43 year old father are hunting right there. I think siren Wisconsin is the area there in.
[00:13:45] Spot it a bear from a tree stand and the young hunter I would imagine with instruction from his father to do so.
[00:13:54] Yeah, ends up taking a shot at this bear and this is a totally legal hunt according to this concept and department is fish and wildlife for whatever they're called department department of natural resources.
[00:14:07] Totally illegal hunt, but the 12 year old takes a shot doesn't kill the bear he just hits the bear, but the bear is injured and just kind of wanders off right.
[00:14:19] So as the hunters do they kind of waited out for a little bit to kind of if this bear's going to die yeah give it a chance to die before they go and potentially find an angry bear.
[00:14:30] So after 20 minutes you saw they climb down from the stand to look for a blood trail.
[00:14:35] They're unable to find a blood trail they end up in listing a neighbor's dog to help them hunting dog to help them track down the target pretty quickly it sounds like the the dog found the bear and pretty much just found a ran off from the bear so they have that he has bears still in the area.
[00:14:56] They're kind of wondering through what I would imagine pretty dense forest.
[00:15:00] I think the striped is a thick it all of a sudden the bear is six feet away from right and it's hurt and it's angry yeah and it's defensive you know it's the figuring it's going to die yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.
[00:15:17] The the father ultimately he decides he's going to pull out his side arm and try to at least scare the bear further away from them as probably the most imminent danger in this situation.
[00:15:28] Yeah as he's doing this the bear starts charge fires eight shots at the bear misses the bear every time the bear pounces on the father pins him to the ground.
[00:15:38] Starts mulling this guy like the photos of of the dude after the fact is a giant gash on his cheek from the bear whether it's claw or tooth you never know but yeah.
[00:15:49] from the bear just a big gash on his cheek so very very severe situation where this man's essentially wrestling this bear for life and death on the ground.
[00:16:00] 12 year old lines up a site with his rifle pulls a trigger shoots the bear and kills it the bear falls on the father and the father survived.
[00:16:09] So I think bear was that maybe 200 pounds to pretty crazy story yeah just I mean in the sense that his 12 year old was one not panic enough.
[00:16:21] Yeah exactly just run or something and then two was able to fire shot of his accurate and not kill his father and hit the bear.
[00:16:31] Exactly absolutely wild case.
[00:16:35] Yeah and I mean essentially the the the father was transported by by neighbors in the area and I think this is it was kind of described as like a remote area with cabins around type of situation.
[00:16:50] Gotcha but the father's taken to an ambulance and then transport the hospital survived with what appeared to be essentially minor wounds given the gravity of the situation.
[00:17:03] I mean yeah it's easy to see how this situation could have resulted in two deaths.
[00:17:08] Yeah one being father and two being the kid potentially.
[00:17:12] Yeah has there ever been a prouder father like I don't think there you can think of a case from history.
[00:17:20] Where there's been a father more proud his 12 year old son like that's insane.
[00:17:26] Yeah and I think one of the quotes I saw I think it was in a USA today or today article effort with go button out.
[00:17:33] It was an in an article from today dot or on to say that calm quote from the father saying I told my wife I was done with bear hunting.
[00:17:43] Which makes it.
[00:17:44] Yeah yeah that feels a little scarier.
[00:17:48] Literally yeah I think people tend to have like this opinion that hunters are at a total advantage when it comes to the wildlife they're killing.
[00:17:57] And then we oftentimes they are but yeah I mean on these predator hunts like that's that's a scary situation.
[00:18:03] Yeah play all your cards right yeah yeah men are playing in case is where it's.
[00:18:08] And then you hear about bears charging hunters and just because you guys think like a lot of these hunting situations are happening in areas that are super dense forestry.
[00:18:16] It's like probably pretty difficult to see.
[00:18:19] Yeah yeah.
[00:18:19] Digital predator might be lurking somewhere.
[00:18:34] Yeah.
[00:18:35] And so they are to catch the scent yeah.
[00:18:36] Exactly.
[00:18:38] Kind of try to claim it as their own so you're walking around with a bear billboard.
[00:18:42] Yeah free meat yeah.
[00:18:45] Pretty intense moment but yeah happy happy those two were able to survive in the scenario.
[00:18:52] Uh huh.
[00:18:53] Yeah so also pretty wild so we were sitting at our desk yesterday just making some out there call out a content.
[00:19:03] And the topic of all the nuclear sites in Colorado came up.
[00:19:09] We are kind of like, how do we cover this?
[00:19:13] What's the approach to cover this there?
[00:19:16] In case you didn't know, there are a lot
[00:19:18] of nuclear sites in Colorado.
[00:19:20] Colorado is considered part of the nuclear sponge,
[00:19:24] which is essentially a strategy that spreads the US nuclear arsenal
[00:19:32] around the country.
[00:19:34] And it prioritizes three things with this nuclear sponge strategy.
[00:19:39] So that's distance protection and proximity to cities.
[00:19:43] So distance comes in in terms of like striking distance.
[00:19:47] So having these nuclear sites in Colorado
[00:19:51] and in the American West, in general, kind of makes it much closer
[00:19:56] to if we were to send a send a rocket across specific.
[00:20:02] Yeah, it would be a closer proximity.
[00:20:05] So a quicker strike time.
[00:20:07] Also protection.
[00:20:09] So like Colorado, right?
[00:20:10] It's in the center of the country.
[00:20:13] Is that one of those coastal cities that has like as much as, you know,
[00:20:17] there's a lot of people in Colorado.
[00:20:19] Yeah, and that comes in with this like proximity to cities point where it is.
[00:20:23] Like if you're looking at protecting the 20 million people
[00:20:26] or have any people live in New York City right?
[00:20:28] I'm going to put a nuclear weapon.
[00:20:31] It could become a target right under that city.
[00:20:34] And then the protection aspect to go back to that too, just being not on the coastline.
[00:20:40] We were to get invaded and makes a little bit harder to get to.
[00:20:45] This from sea attacks and from land attacks.
[00:20:50] Nowadays there's probably no much of a difference when it comes to air attacks.
[00:20:53] Exactly.
[00:20:53] I know.
[00:20:55] But yeah, at least the land attacks protected.
[00:20:59] So we started kind of looking into how many nuclear sites were around Colorado.
[00:21:03] And it's more than you can imagine.
[00:21:05] It's like literally more than you could imagine.
[00:21:07] Yeah, dozens.
[00:21:08] I mean, dozens of, I think they're called the minute man missiles.
[00:21:12] But and mostly concentrated in like the northeastern part of this day.
[00:21:18] So obviously we like we found a map on the few different websites.
[00:21:23] So there's a lot of different locations.
[00:21:25] So we we take a to Google Earth and start zooming in to see what we can, what we can just see from the air.
[00:21:32] It's just so many.
[00:21:33] It's just silos everywhere.
[00:21:35] Yeah, silos literally everywhere.
[00:21:36] If you if you look in that part, there's a website that you looked at.
[00:21:40] I downloaded a KML or that a file that lets me upload it to Google Earth.
[00:21:45] And it's just if we live in Colorado and it goes to World War III,
[00:21:49] we get a really impressive fireworks show about like five minutes before we're toast.
[00:21:54] Yeah, I can't imagine that scenario.
[00:21:58] Yeah, it's just so many silos.
[00:21:59] Like I don't know that's all like a picture is like imagining rockets.
[00:22:04] Just how interesting all of the northeastern Colorado.
[00:22:06] Yeah, it's out of the eastern plains.
[00:22:08] Well yeah and from the air and now imagine these sites are pretty low profile like all underground.
[00:22:14] Yeah, essentially.
[00:22:16] But from the air, we start kind of zooming around and we see this exact same.
[00:22:20] It's just everywhere these sites.
[00:22:22] There's supposed to be where it's like a little retaining wall, a parking lot, maybe a building.
[00:22:27] What kind of looks like a port that a miss would fly out of?
[00:22:30] Uh-huh.
[00:22:31] So yeah, a helicopter pad.
[00:22:32] Like it's like it's nothing out of the ordinary.
[00:22:36] Like could not more be nothing out of the ordinary except for a helicopter pad.
[00:22:40] Like right there.
[00:22:41] Yeah, just in the middle of farmland.
[00:22:43] Uh-huh.
[00:22:44] Yeah, see only thing that gives it way.
[00:22:46] Well, the other interesting thing when it comes to nuclear,
[00:22:48] uh, just technology and call route to is people don't realize that,
[00:22:53] uh, so blasts were conducted back in the day underneath, uh,
[00:22:59] underneath the surface and Colorado.
[00:23:01] Yeah, I think a rules in Colorado.
[00:23:03] If you thought if you thought fracking was bad for the environment,
[00:23:07] just wait to hear about nuclear fracking.
[00:23:10] I don't know. That was crazy to read about.
[00:23:12] Yeah, here we go.
[00:23:13] So this is, and this is just directly from Wikipedia.
[00:23:15] And by no means pretending to be an expert on this,
[00:23:19] uh, but project rules and as the name of it,
[00:23:22] um, conducted near a rules in Colorado,
[00:23:25] uh, which is also, um, kind of close to parachute Colorado, I think.
[00:23:31] Um, yeah.
[00:23:33] So a series of tests basically September 10th, uh,
[00:23:39] 1969, a 40, 40 kilotone nuclear test was a conducted in the world.
[00:23:46] It was a little, uh,
[00:23:48] I think there's a little plaque there now that, uh,
[00:23:50] the marks where it took place.
[00:23:53] And basically the reason these bombs are said to have been conducted, uh,
[00:23:56] where did determine if there was a peaceful use for,
[00:24:00] yeah, it was for mining.
[00:24:01] Yeah, mining for, um, to see if natural gas could be, uh,
[00:24:07] the way it was determined.
[00:24:09] Yeah, um, from these underground regions.
[00:24:12] So pretty interesting stuff.
[00:24:13] Uh, 1969 that makes so much sense.
[00:24:16] Yeah, that is so, that in the 1960s to 70s core.
[00:24:22] Yeah, and it looks like that compares to, uh,
[00:24:25] so the bomb that was dropped in hero,
[00:24:29] Hiroshima was 15 kilotons.
[00:24:32] And the bomb was dropped in Nagasaki was 25 kilotons.
[00:24:36] So wild.
[00:24:37] It was bomb that was detonated underground.
[00:24:38] And the repair machine was 40 kilotons.
[00:24:42] So it's basically larger than that.
[00:24:44] And again, not an expert, but if you combine both of those,
[00:24:47] the number of people 40 if yeah, exactly.
[00:24:50] So, um, take what you will there and do your own research online.
[00:24:54] Um, pretty their way.
[00:24:56] Uh, I think, uh, I think the test, the term ultimately determined that, um,
[00:25:01] they shouldn't be doing that.
[00:25:03] It's not a good idea to blow up nuclear bombs into the ground.
[00:25:06] I don't know.
[00:25:07] I don't know about that.
[00:25:08] Probably a little bit of a public pushback from that to it.
[00:25:12] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I could see, you know,
[00:25:15] if that, uh, I just can't even imagine that ever happening like the conversation,
[00:25:20] happening for that in 2024.
[00:25:23] Oh, right.
[00:25:25] Yeah, imagine the social media comments and all the memes of, uh,
[00:25:29] there would do it stem from that.
[00:25:31] And someone in our audience, that's immensely smarter than I am.
[00:25:36] Well, better explain this.
[00:25:37] Yeah, surely sent us an email.
[00:25:38] So either way, uh, there are these like random nuclear missile silos that are still,
[00:25:43] uh, operational as far as we could tell and with these Colorado.
[00:25:47] So pretty interesting stuff there, but um, yeah.
[00:25:51] So next thing though to talk about is a very heated topic.
[00:25:56] Uh, it involves the capture of Colorado's wild horses.
[00:26:01] Um, I don't even think that most, or a lot of Colorado's at least in the,
[00:26:05] along the I-25 corridor, or really realized that there's a huge amount of wild horses in Colorado.
[00:26:11] Yeah, that's crazy to think about.
[00:26:13] Yeah, and so many so that, uh, officials, um,
[00:26:18] at least their reason for capturing as wild horses because their population has grown to an unsustainable level
[00:26:28] in Western Colorado.
[00:26:30] And some of these areas, so, um, I never plenty of people online that dispute that claim.
[00:26:34] Yeah, also there's every time we even talk about horses.
[00:26:39] There's a lot of people that send us emails related to why these horses shouldn't be captured.
[00:26:44] Yeah, and also specifically, uh, why they should be captured in a more humane way.
[00:26:50] So, and helicopters are used in these roundups.
[00:26:53] We've got, actually, uh, I guess they scare these horses into these coral areas,
[00:26:58] or they're not able to roam freely or run away in there and they're in this brownic after.
[00:27:04] Um, yeah, and in this most recent, uh, this most recent roundup 140 wild animals were collected.
[00:27:13] Wild horses were collected, uh, over the course of about a week.
[00:27:16] I think it was September, 11th to September 18th, caught you.
[00:27:19] Uh, mostly these horses, uh, end up getting adopted, uh,
[00:27:25] and then get them better, and they're in treatment and, uh, and vaccinated.
[00:27:30] And then, and then adopted, uh, two in area where they're, where they're not necessarily impacting the land as much.
[00:27:37] Yeah, exactly.
[00:27:39] And I think a big concern there too is that when there's too many horses in a given space,
[00:27:43] the resources are obviously more limited to.
[00:27:46] So you see a weaker, um, less healthy population, uh, God.
[00:27:52] Yeah, and the numbers are pretty crazy. So like with I think there's around,
[00:27:57] there's a little bit over a thousand wild horses left in Colorado, more than 2000 have been removed since 2021.
[00:28:05] Um, just related to this effort, but the number provided by officials is that these heards can grow 15 to 20% in a year.
[00:28:13] Whoa, uh, it's their not managed.
[00:28:15] Yeah.
[00:28:16] So it's easy to see how kind of those numbers can come back.
[00:28:18] Yeah, I could get out of control fast.
[00:28:20] Yeah. And then it apparently will create a situation where there's just not enough food to go around and then
[00:28:26] water you're on it in the entire herd is less healthy.
[00:28:30] Um, I think, uh, perhaps maybe more controversial, uh,
[00:28:35] is that, or maybe adding to the controversy, um, in this roundup situation,
[00:28:41] is that horses do die. Um, at least every year that I can remember covering this.
[00:28:48] There have been horses that have, yeah, or as a result of their collection and like a,
[00:28:56] they already exist an element or, uh, or they get hurt during the collection period.
[00:29:01] Gotcha. These year three horses died. Two horses died on September 16th when they were youth and eyes due to preexisting knee injuries.
[00:29:10] Um, one of those horses had a severe infection as well on the had knee injury.
[00:29:16] Um, but then another horse died on September 18th.
[00:29:21] Uh, and that was youth unised after sustaining an injury during this collection process.
[00:29:26] Gotcha. Um, reports very I think I saw something from the Colorado sun talking about how the horse wasn't,
[00:29:33] uh, wasn't running from this helicopter situation at the, at the time of its injury.
[00:29:38] It was, it was walking toward toward the caral and stepped in a hole.
[00:29:43] Uh, and that's when that leg injury was sustained.
[00:29:47] It was 24 year old and there are two. So pretty old. Pretty old. Yeah.
[00:29:50] I survived for a long time and in the wild and, uh,
[00:30:02] the holding pin got, uh, which these holding beds are down in Canyon City kind of in that prison area. Oh, get Canyon City.
[00:30:09] So it was, uh, got a foster family instead, but yeah, either way, the wild horse roundups usually controversial.
[00:30:19] Um, lot of people raise questions including polis about if the means are ethical in terms of collection.
[00:30:27] Um, so that's, uh, I guess up to each person to decide whether that's ethical, but uh, yeah.
[00:30:34] Or the citizenry, you know, you can, you can legislate.
[00:30:38] Yeah. If you know, if you have a problem with it, well, and I think last year was, uh,
[00:30:43] Governor Poles called on the BLM because this is all federally managed rights.
[00:30:47] Yeah. Oh, right. Okay. So it's a little bit a little bit out of the hands of your average caller out in,
[00:30:52] and I think Poles called on them to delay, uh, the capture of these horses until, uh,
[00:30:58] more humane, uh, means, uh, presumably not involving a helicopter. Yeah.
[00:31:03] Uh, was found for collection. Um, obviously, these roundups are still taking place and helicopters are still involved.
[00:31:10] Uh, but I think also the BLM has said that they want to move away from, uh, using helicopters once the situation is more manageable.
[00:31:17] Gotcha. So it's more that they're, it's, the mass of horses. Yeah.
[00:31:21] That is the really issue for them. Yeah. That's ultimately the concern there. I think,
[00:31:26] because just to how many horses are out there. So get some traditional rain dryters out there.
[00:31:32] That's, that's been some of the responses for uh, wolves in certain states.
[00:31:37] Yeah. Like they're hiring rain dryters. Yeah. I think that's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:31:42] And Colorado too, but I mean, yeah. I think there's this return to, to what the West was best at,
[00:31:51] you know, back in the day is that rain,
[00:31:54] driving instead of using all these fancy, fancy helicopter.
[00:32:00] That's true. Yeah. I think well, and I think one of the, um,
[00:32:04] I think one of the tactics that could be employed is essentially like sterilizing these horses.
[00:32:12] So they can't reproduce. Yeah. Um, that's obviously more long term.
[00:32:16] It, uh, in terms of the, the herd number is. But I think that's something that they're,
[00:32:21] they're ultimately trying to move to a farmer, but correctly. Gotcha. Um, yeah.
[00:32:26] I mean, pretty as pretty controversial saying, uh, that takes place most years in Colorado,
[00:32:33] yeah, um, at least in recent years. Um, so yeah, something to be thinking about and know about.
[00:32:39] Yeah. We have a few articles on it on our website, um,
[00:32:45] but if you weren't reading more, yeah. You can find places to go see you as wild horses.
[00:32:50] So there are some viewing areas, um, I think at least, at least four or five of them around the state.
[00:32:55] So next time you're in Western Colorado, uh, go see some wild horses. Yeah.
[00:32:59] Keep an eye out on the highway. Yeah. Definitely one of the most, uh, most beautiful,
[00:33:05] beautiful things to spot. Yeah, on the planes. Um, yeah. Also, so I guess one last day,
[00:33:12] before we wrap up for the day, uh, we once again revisit it kind of the most missed pronounced words in Colorado.
[00:33:19] Yeah, in terms of town names, et cetera, uh, last time we talked about being a vista,
[00:33:27] which is always contentious. Always contentious. And it's so contentious. Yeah.
[00:33:30] Yeah. That's great. It is. It is pronounced,
[00:33:32] but you know, this and not in a vista. Uh-huh. And that's actually part of a decision made by the town in the town charter.
[00:33:39] Yeah. Yeah. Town charter, uh, essentially, uh, one of the residents, uh,
[00:33:44] wanted to use that view from beautiful. Yeah. Word. Uh-huh. And kind of combine that with some of the Spanish heritage in the area.
[00:33:53] Yeah. So that is where that stems from. It's kind of more so as, uh,
[00:33:59] melding of, uh, cultures. Yeah.
[00:34:02] Opposed to what people think is it's like this, a ratio of cultures. Yeah.
[00:34:05] It wasn't meant to be in a ratio of the Hispanic culture in the area. Uh-huh.
[00:34:09] Supposed to kind of at the time, at least,
[00:34:11] to suppose to, uh, kind of bring the two cultures together. So, uh-huh.
[00:34:16] Yeah. I mean, if you ever want to see how like truly divided social media has made us just pronounce a
[00:34:23] univista either way. Way to vista. You can say,
[00:34:27] you can say, but you can see a lot of people are not interested in the community.
[00:34:31] Yeah. I mean, it's a lot of people do that. Yeah.
[00:34:39] One of my best friends from college is from BV and exclusively referred to it as BV.
[00:34:45] So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It feels like the local shout out. Well, so, and then, uh,
[00:34:50] given all the controversy that us kind of cover and the idea of like,
[00:34:53] how do you predict, how do you correctly pronounce being a vista created,
[00:34:59] dug into another popular one today or at least recent days.
[00:35:04] Um, and that is a little town on the western slope and it goes by your A. Oh, yeah.
[00:35:12] Not Uray. Uh-huh. According to a 2017 nine news interview with a visitors center employee.
[00:35:19] Um, so on the surface there you go. It's it's Uray. Yeah. Um,
[00:35:25] Eric, she says it. Who Ray for Uray? Um,
[00:35:29] you're a, I think I just said it wrong. Yeah. Well, like you're,
[00:35:33] the, the, the, the, yeah. Yeah. There you go.
[00:35:36] You're, you're a,
[00:35:39] you're a, you're a, you're a, you're a, you're a, you're a, you're a, you're a,
[00:35:49] you answer this. It's, the answer to that.
[00:36:14] yeah, where they're going.
[00:36:16] Now, they're going to respond to my questions,
[00:36:16] and yeah, actually a little easier to describe
[00:36:16] what Kalapeka.
[00:36:18] Now you're going to need an spiritual knowledge of the unconscious.
[00:36:19] this later chief was born on November 13th, 1833 which is a day after slash the night of
[00:36:30] November 12th there was one of the most notable meteor showers to ever take place and ever
[00:36:36] be recorded in North America. Wow it was part of the the Liniad meteor shower which apparently
[00:36:43] has a big meteor shower, big showing every 33 to 34 years and it said that hundreds of thousands
[00:36:52] of meteors were observed in one night so that's why you can kind of imagine what that would be like
[00:36:58] being out in the wildlands, a Colorado with your light pollution out on the planet. Yeah exactly
[00:37:05] and clear skies just see in that massive show so you're as born the next day and damped
[00:37:13] the era after the way these meteors flying across the sky. That's cool. Yeah pretty good.
[00:37:19] That's some good context. Records of the appearance of this massive November show
[00:37:25] apparently date back to like 90 to 80 so it's been hundreds of years where there's recordings of
[00:37:31] this who knows how much longer it's been going on. Yeah but I'd also launch some of the first
[00:37:36] modern studies or relatively modern studies into these meteors showers. Wow pretty cool that's super
[00:37:43] yes and next time you're near a you can say it right yeah why you are our a why yeah
[00:37:51] you spell out the pronunciation so you can say correctly and then you can also have a little bit of
[00:37:57] information about why that town was named. Yeah that's super cool yeah super cool maybe you'll see
[00:38:03] meteor shower while you're there. Yes yeah maybe plan for let's see power of many 30 something
[00:38:09] year in a role. Yeah the last linear meteor show or we'll just go there in August to September
[00:38:18] and catch the person it's true. Yeah probably not much light pollution in the era nowadays I think
[00:38:24] that the town's home did like a few hundred people. Max I think it's like a hundred years on
[00:38:30] like that. It's pretty good I'm not a good restaurant the the the spas there are great the white
[00:38:36] wise bottom yeah that I went there and yeah that was great time. Yeah called this what's
[00:38:44] one of America for a reason it's in gorgeous. Yeah it really felt a jagged mountain peaks so
[00:38:50] very very beautiful place but yeah I think that's about all we got for you today with the out there
[00:38:55] Colorado podcast so once again I'm Spencer here was Sam we're a chat and all things call
[00:39:04] her out of it so if you have any comments or questions concerns feel free to share this
[00:39:09] an email at info without their Colorado dot com and we will keep the episodes coming. Yeah have a
[00:39:14] rest of the week keep staying out there.