Death on the Boulder Flatirons; Miller moth forecast; CO's best BBQ; Remembering the 10th Mtn. Division; & More

[00:00:05] Welcome to another episode of the OutThere Colorado Podcast. Once again, I'm Spencer here with Seth. Hello. And we've got a lot of fun Colorado topics to get into today. Heading into the long weekend. Heading into a long weekend, which you pointed out, I totally forgot it was Memorial Day on Monday. Yeah, gonna have the day off. Gotta have your plans. Yeah, I know, man. What am I gonna do? I'm working on something. I had some plans fall through, so I'm working on a backup plan at the moment. Not to bore you with those gritty details. Well, before we get ahead into that, how's your weekend?

[00:00:35] Heard there was a lot of hiking. Yeah, a lot of hiking. I think I hiked like 15 miles over the weekend. Something like that. Probably for work, I'm interested in doing a little story on the Intamin Trail, which skirts the local foothills here of Manitou Springs. Runs about six miles or so from, I don't think people realize it runs all the way from like Ruxton Avenue in Manitou Springs down through the Crystal Hose neighborhood and then back up into the hills making its way to the very popular

[00:01:05] section 16 trail. Yes. Trailhead. It's a great trail. It's a great fun, I mean, great for trail running. Yeah, one time I ran the full length of it after a Halloween party in Manitou Springs where I drove down there and then my plan going into it was to leave my car. Yep. And then Uber home. So I had to run back from downtown Manitou Springs to get my car in the morning. Oh boy. So I did that. I think that's the only time I ran the full. That's a big day.

[00:01:38] It's a big day.

[00:02:03] So I mixed it up in Stratton Open Space on Sunday and yeah, grilled out yesterday. I think that's about all I did. Watched the Cavaliers win the game seven. Larry, yeah. Yeah. What about you? What were you up to? This weekend popped on the incline actually. So girlfriend is going for a triple incline. She did the double previously and is trying to get the triple in.

[00:02:30] And so I was, you know, went over there to help support her. Ended up having to run up bar trail to kind of help her down on that second lap. She was, she was feeling a little rough there and she ended up, she's still going to go for the third incline next time. Yeah. Next round. Next round. Yeah. Ended up calling it there, but I did pop up on the incline myself briefly. Just went up to the bailout. I have a toe injury right now.

[00:02:56] So deal with that, but I got up to the bailout area, like the 1800 step or so, you know, and then ran down. So that was, that was fun. Fun to be in Manitou. Yeah. Yeah. Always good to be. We were both in, we both had some Manitou time. It sounds like over the weekend. Yeah. Watched a lot of slow horses. It's my new show with Gary Oldman. Oh, yeah. Very good on Apple. Very good. Gary Oldman is great. Yeah. It's shot. That's like one of my favorite characters, I think, in television history is him in that show. Okay. Noted.

[00:03:26] He's just like the snarky old, like, spy, I guess we could say. Yeah. But it's a good, if you like, like, spy thrillers. All right. With some intense moments, for sure. Okay. But it is, it's a good show. It's less action, less like, less like James Bond shoot him up action and more like, more plot, more secrecy. Tim says he farts. He's just teams us saying he farts a lot. Not Tim, but Gary Oldman. Yes, he does.

[00:03:55] Well, it's also funny. He's always eating. Like every, like, it feels like every scene he's either smoking a cigarette or eating. Yeah. And just eating ridiculous things. Like, he'll just have like a bowl of like these weird looking noodles and just be like, go into town on this while he's just in the middle of a meeting. He always has his shoes off and feet up on the desk. Yeah.

[00:04:14] Um, it's a quirky character for him for sure. But definitely, I mean, I'm, it's six episodes a season. I watched the entire first season between last week and this week, which isn't, I mean, six episodes, you know, like one and a half night. Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, definitely worth checking out. All right. By the way, my move, I should have noted. Recommendation. As a tease to a later topic that I think we're going to get into, I discovered some bomb new barbecue over the weekend. What was it? Here in Colorado Springs. What was it?

[00:04:42] BC's barbecue. It's a food truck. Ooh. Uh, typically parked and open at a lost friend brewery. Um, is that where you had it? That was fire. Yeah. Yeah. Just get the elote and top it with barbacoa and thank me later. That looks delicious. I got a photo on my phone. Yeah. Check this out. Right in time, right in time for Memorial Day. Like you were saying. Yeah. This was great. Do they have brisket burgers? Yeah. Those sell out. Those were sold out by the time I got there. Yeah.

[00:05:11] I'm looking at their, their Facebook here and it's like brisket burgers sold out. Brisket burgers sold out. Can anyone see this? That's the elote with barbacoa. That looks amazing. We'll throw it up on the, we'll throw it up on the full length. That's right. We have the technology now. We have the technology. Um, man, it was good. Yeah. Sounds delicious. Let's get into some of these, uh, let's get into some of these topics here. Uh, first off, I did want to say there was some pretty significant snow hit in the state this week, uh, really between today, we're recording this on Monday.

[00:05:39] So today and tomorrow, um, up to 49 inches on Long's Peak is what Mountain Forecast is saying through Thursday. So the Mountain Forecast, I mean, they're pretty reliable. Like that's a, that's always what I recommend when people are doing 14 or hiking. Uh, if you're curious about what the, the weather is going to look like up on those mountains and whether or not it's going to rain in the summer, you know, and, um, sounds like we're not recommending Long's Peak. Yeah. Yeah. Not recommending Long's Peak.

[00:06:06] Um, and I mean, most of the snow, it's, it's similar to what recent storms have brought National Weather Service also worth noting. They're calling for a little bit, a little bit tamer totals, but still, I mean, their high end shows the potential for, you know, 24 to 30 inches on Long's Peak. Um, I mean, I kind of trust Mountain Forecast on this one, to be honest. Like I rely on that all the time when I'm on 14ers. Uh, it's by far my favorite, uh, 14er weather resource.

[00:06:32] Um, but yeah, I mean, the National Weather Service calling for that same kind of continental divide in the area of I-70 and north of that getting hit the hardest. So similar to what happened with the last storm, um, Estes Park area, you know, uh, could get some snow north of Steamboat Springs as well, but pretty much restricted to that northern portion of the state. Uh, but still notable and also notable speaking of Memorial Day weekend is that Trail Ridge Road usually opens on the Friday before or Friday of Memorial Day weekend. Right.

[00:07:02] And they've kind of been holding off on saying whether or not that will be the case this year. Uh, Trail Ridge Road famously goes from the east side to the west side of Rocky Mountain National Park, reaching elevation of 12,183 feet above sea level. One of the most scenic drives in the state and the country really, I think it's the highest continuous through drive, um, in the, in the country, if I remember correctly, or maybe the sun or paved through drive, I think.

[00:07:30] Um, but yeah, I mean, you're dealing with, you know, high elevation weather up there between the 30 inches of snow they got last week and looking like it could be at least 24 inches of snow, uh, this week or at least 18 to 24 inches, maybe significantly more than that. Um, it'll be interesting to see if they end up getting that plowed in time for a Friday, for a Friday opening. So look out for a announcement there. By the time you listen to this, there might be some word out there. Yeah.

[00:08:00] And earlier this month they were, they did make a post about it. And I mean, there's still a lot of snow up there on Trail Ridge Road. So something to keep in mind. Um, haven't seen any, all the talk about, uh, Mount Blue Sky scenic byway set to reopen since that long closure that's set to reopen for Memorial Day weekend. Haven't heard any word otherwise there. Yeah. I mean, they're also supposed to get a lot of snow as well. Um, with Mount Blue Sky mountain forecast calling for about 26 inches this week.

[00:08:28] So maybe that impacts it as well. You know, I mean, yeah. Might want to be on the lookout for some word there if you've got any plans. Yeah, for sure. There's a winter storm warning that's been activated up in Northern Colorado. Winter storm advisory around that. So that's running through Thursday. Um, what'd you say? I think it's, uh, so the main brunt of the storm is supposed to hit Monday, Tuesday. There's some moisture on Wednesday and Thursday as well. I think any moisture that is going to land on those days based on what I'm seeing on here is really going to be restricted to higher elevation peaks.

[00:08:58] I think it warms up a little bit at that point, but, um, yeah, something to follow along with. Yeah. So I wanted for the weekend, you know, I know this week, you know, rainy snowy, uh, around the state. I wondered about the holiday weekend, what things look like too early to say. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, man, did you see, so some pretty sad news out of Boulder or some, some very tragic news out of Boulder, uh, a man died on the flat irons, uh, this last week.

[00:09:26] Um, this happened on May 14th, uh, involving a man who has since been identified as 33 year old Ryan Kelly. Uh, essentially what happened, um, so this was on Boulder's second flat iron and an Apple, uh, Apple crash detection alert was received by emergency services. So that's like the crash detection system that goes from an Apple device, like a phone. Um, and this happened around 11 30 AM. Uh, and that signal originated from Chautauqua Park.

[00:09:55] So in the area of the flat irons, aside from that, the, uh, rescue crews and those first responders didn't have much information to go on. There were no other calls that were received. Uh, they got to the scene and no witnesses reported any sort of a crash or a fall or anything like that. And it wouldn't be until a Rocky mountain rescue, uh, group off, off duty, uh, climber was in the area and he stumbled across this man's body. Um, so, uh, very tragic situation.

[00:10:24] Uh, he was found about halfway up the second flat iron, uh, in a gully with no safety gear. So no ropes, um, no other climbing gear was noted. Essentially this pointed to solo scrambling being the activity that Kelly was participating in at the time of this fall. Um, and I mean, yeah, very, very scary situation. There are some online reports, uh, that have come out kind of since, uh, this news broke

[00:10:50] about this man's death where people are recalling maybe a rock fall scenario that occurred on the second flat iron on that day around that time. So that may have been a factor. There's been no official report, uh, that that was what, what led to that fall. So a very tragic situation. Um, the Boulder flat irons, you know, famously attract a lot of people for solo scrambling, right? Really could be called free soloing, right?

[00:11:15] All, all the routes to the top of, uh, the second flat iron, uh, they all involve at least one, uh, class five move. And class five is generally when people are like, you really need to be roped up for this. Yeah. Um, you're talking about, you know, 600 to maybe a little bit more than that at some points, uh, 600 foot rock formation. Right. Uh, so big consequences that come with falling there. And I mean, none of it's easy, right? It's all class three to class four.

[00:11:44] And then those crux moves that are class five. Uh, so, you know, it's technical climbing, um, ultimately, and it tends to have this reputation, I think of it being not as, uh, not as dangerous as it is because so many people do it. Um, but it does always kind of, you know, leave the possibility of, and you know, anyone can have an accident, anyone can have a slip, um, or an act of God can occur where maybe you have some sort of a rock fall, uh, that you just really can't do anything about.

[00:12:13] So, um, very serious situation and condolences go out to Ryan Kelly's loved ones about this. Yeah. Yeah. For now, nothing official has been released in that regard. Yeah. And I've, I've heard just over the years, kind of some, some minor rumbling, I guess,

[00:12:38] about, um, you know, should there be regulations on the flat irons from a land management perspective? You know, like you say, I mean, so iconic and in everyone's view and people see some, some see it as, you know, formations that definitely merit a rope and that kind of classic rock climbing setup. And certainly other people see it as rock to essentially run across. Right.

[00:13:05] Um, and I know there's been questions asked, like, you know, do these iconic formations merit a certain kind of land management where rope is required? And you get into some tricky conversations about freedom, obviously. Right. Um, but yeah, these kinds of circumstances kind of make my mind go to that, uh, that, that, that tough question. Yeah. And I mean, to put it in perspective too, with, you know, how common it is for people to go up this without ropes. I mean, there's all sorts of records.

[00:13:34] There's, I think there's records for people's people going up it in rollerblades without ropes. Like you can find photos of people with rollerblades on some of the flat irons. Um, oftentimes people won't even use climbing shoes, you know, there may be approach shoes or even tennis shoes. Yeah. Um, yeah. Also. And I mean, it's just kind of a constant flow when you look at some of those routes and what I've been hearing too now, uh, which is kind of concerning as well is that a lot of these routes are so popular that some of these holds are starting to get pretty polished and slick.

[00:14:03] So what used to be maybe easier 10 years ago, um, not as easy now. So, and, and with a lot of these routes too, uh, I said they're in that fifth grade of climbing, uh, it varies quite a bit. A lot of these, uh, routes, you know, they're in that 5.0 to 5.4 range, which is, you know, supposedly easier than what you would find at most climbing gyms. Right. Uh, generally like the actual routes aside from the training routes at climbing gyms,

[00:14:32] they start around like five, six. Right. So, um, and oftentimes you're talking about maybe one or two moves that push it into that, that fifth class category. So, uh, that said, if you get off route, that tends to be a big issue when it comes to, uh, rescues that take place on the flat irons, uh, people will get off route. All of a sudden they'll be in more difficult terrain, um, maybe unable to get back to where they were as well.

[00:14:56] Uh, so, I mean, it's really something to, you know, just proceed or, you know, proceed with caution. Know your skills most definitely. Know your skills. Know the risks no matter what. Yeah. Knowing the risks also in addition to just knowing the skills. I mean, it is interesting too, like we've definitely covered, you know, I can probably remember a dozen times where people have fallen, um, not all ending with death, but probably a dozen times that where we've covered somebody who's fallen, uh, on, on this second flat iron

[00:15:26] formation. So, and that's just in the few matter of years that I've been, I've been on, on this. Yeah. Puts it in perspective. Tragedies like these, uh, very tragically put it in perspective. Yeah. Yeah. They do. So, um, yeah. With that said, uh, you know, sincere condolences. It's a, it's a tragic situation. Yep. Um, more Boulder news. Yeah. More Boulder news. Maybe that's a segue. Yeah. Also involving a dangerous route of a much different sort, not a rock, but a highway. Yeah. Um, yeah.

[00:15:55] So, um, people, if they're not already hearing about it, we'll be hearing, uh, about the North Foothills Bikeway. That's the name given to this long desired bike path following highway 36 between Boulder and Lyons. And you and me having covered, uh, news over the years know that this is a very dangerous stretch of highway for cyclists.

[00:16:20] Also a very popular stretch, uh, estimated like 52,000 cyclists a year ride this stretch of highway. Boulder County considers it, um, the most dangerous stretch of highway in, um, unincorporated, uh, parts of the County between 2015 and 2024, uh, County tracked, um, crashes resulting in 13 injuries and six deaths.

[00:16:47] So just to put it in perspective of, um, how dangerous this highway can be in that really pretty, just classic hilly Colorado countryside between Boulder and Lyons there. And yeah, um, tight shoulders, tight bends, kind of some deceiving corners and blind spots. And people have long talked about a bike path going through there and the County is officially forming a vision there.

[00:17:15] So recently been doing some surveying and hosted a, uh, uh, open house, um, looking at, uh, certain focus areas where there, where the County has kind of seen some, um, complex crossings needed. You know, this is not like, as it was put to me, this is not like putting in a sidewalk along that highway. Um, I mean, you're talking about infrastructure potentially like overpasses and underpasses

[00:17:40] and separation, um, and potential retaining walls and land ownership considerations, environmental considerations. So we're talking about an 11 mile bike path, um, that has an estimated price tag of around $95 million. So, uh, if people are wondering if they're going to see this bike path anytime soon, that number should let you know there's some serious fundraising that's going to have to happen.

[00:18:09] Um, County is hoping that that gets covered, uh, primarily through federal grants that don't always happen very fast. So still in design mode right now. Um, and that final design still could be a couple of years out, I'm told. So let alone when we actually see a path that goes through there, um, could be years out, uh, safe to say. Uh, but nonetheless, you know, I think County sees it as not only something that's going to

[00:18:36] be big for locals in Boulder, but something that's really going to attract people again to just that pretty part of Colorado and just having that open land and sky experience and having the comfort of separation away from heavy, very fast traffic. Yeah. So definitely needed. I don't think anyone's arguing that. Yeah. I mean, I could see that really, uh, boosting the number of people that are taking advantage of that route.

[00:19:03] You know, it's like, I would, I would love road cycling, but it terrifies me. Yeah. Especially in, you know, places where the shoulder might have a little, uh, you know, some, some, uh, potholes in it, you know, or like some debris in it and things like that. I mean, it's a very scary thing. And you do see a lot of cycling incidences involving vehicles in Boulder County and in that area. And I mean, maybe it's because people are so active out there and they're out on those roads have to imagine.

[00:19:30] It also has to do with just how, how those roads are designed as well. Just the nature of, like you said, the winding nature and some of the ups and downs and, um, some of the narrow roads that are there. But yeah, yeah. You nailed it. I mean, the bike planner in Boulder County told me that, you know, the cyclists who get on that highway, she refers to them as like this category of the fearless cyclists, right. Who, um, presumably get on that highway knowing what the risks are.

[00:19:58] Um, but yeah, having a bike path to your point would almost certainly attract, uh, a much broader base of, uh, of road cyclists for sure. And even just, not even just people that might be traveling to the area to do it, but just locals that are hesitant as well, I would imagine. Yeah. Um, so something to, uh, something to watch. Like I said, not going to happen, uh, anytime soon with the amount of funding that has to

[00:20:24] get, um, raised and the amount of planning that's still has to go on. But, um, people have been waiting, uh, I think a long time for this and we'll probably have to wait a little longer. I wonder if like 20 years ago, um, people were talking about the development of hiking trails as much as we've been talking about the development of Colorado's biking infrastructure in recent weeks, you know? Um, cause you got to think like the hiking infrastructure in Colorado is top notch and is pretty developed.

[00:20:53] Whereas now there seems to be this trend where it's like every week there's a new topic related to biking where it's like, Oh, they're doing this and it's going to improve the biking, biking industry or biking options in Colorado. And yeah, it just, just feels like it's a definitely this, this wave coming in of really prioritizing cycling in Colorado. Well, shoot. I mean, you and I were on here talking about the sticky point of, uh, of, uh, sharing trails

[00:21:19] between cyclists and hikers and what some of that infrastructure looks like. Right. I mean, bike optimized trails most definitely. I mean, you weren't seeing so much of that 20 years ago, right? Some of these wooden features that you're seeing up in Virginia Canyon mountain park, you know, some of these big berms that you're seeing in the Alpine of a basin now, just crazy stuff. Well, I mean, I guess too, you got to think like mountain biking didn't really take off

[00:21:45] as like a mainstream sport until the nineties, like late eighties, nineties. Um, so it is a much younger sport in the sense, you know, hiking people have been doing that for, for eons, you know? Well, and yeah, in road cycling, I mean, yeah, that's, that's certainly been more in the mainstream. Yeah, for sure. I mean, this, this, this stretch of highway that we're talking about 36, again, going back to the county bike planner I was talking to, you know, she talked about like, she, she'd go ride that highway, like back in the eighties.

[00:22:15] Um, you know, not, not, not having any certain level of fear that she would now, she says she doesn't ride it now. So she doesn't ride it now. So traffic has increased, right? Exactly. Population growth, right? Um, in terms of why we're starting to hear more talk about bike paths like these. Yeah. I mean, more people driving, more people on their bikes. I think that probably explained a lot of it for sure. Yeah. Interesting stuff. Yeah. Um, here, let's talk about moths. Yeah. Have you seen- Do we have to?

[00:22:44] Yeah, we got to, we got to. They're, they're important. And I'm going to tell you why. I know about these Miller moths. Yeah. Have, have you seen any Miller moths in your house yet this year? Uh, not yet. Not yet. I don't think so. Man, me either. Maybe it's the cats that they might, they might get those moths pretty quickly, but- Yeah, that's a good point. I have a cat who, uh, is pretty nocturnal. I think she probably takes care of a lot of them at night. Yeah. Right. And, um, so I was curious, this year has obviously been pretty exceptional, uh, in the sense of no snow.

[00:23:13] And then all of a sudden this really wet spring that has rolled around, like we've been talking about in recent weeks where it's been a total shift from what's happened, you know, in January, February, March to all of a sudden we have April, May being really wet. I was curious how this was going to impact the Miller moth population along the front range. Right. Um, what, will we have swarms of moths around? Like we do some years, uh, and for people that might not be familiar, uh, the, the life

[00:23:42] cycle of these moths or, or what their seasonal cycle is, is that they will, um, they're born on the, in the plains region from eggs, right. In the, in the early spring. Um, and then once they develop wings, they start to move kind of through, uh, through all these front range cities around late April, uh, early May. And they're making their way to the mountains, uh, where they spend the summer months. And then eventually they return back to the Eastern Plains region, uh, in the fall where

[00:24:11] they will lay eggs and start that cycle again, the next spring with those eggs hatching. So, uh, basically that's why you see these moths coming through all these front range cities every year. And, uh, they definitely are viewed as a bit of a nuisance sometimes I think, cause you've literally can on during some years open the door and there's just seemingly hundreds of moths waiting there to come into your house. Um, this year is definitely going to be impacted by some of these conditions though.

[00:24:39] So, um, starting off with the drought, right? Because Colorado is in its worst stage of drought since 2021 right now. During dry, uh, during drier years, these moths tend to, uh, gravitate toward all of these urban landscapes. So when you're looking at this bigger picture of, okay, how many moths are we going to see around Colorado this year? Uh, the fact that it's been a pretty dry year, uh, so far may point to more of a presence of these moths in front range cities.

[00:25:08] That said, as noted, this springtime has been wetter. So maybe there is a little bit more moisture in the more rural plains areas, uh, that could keep the moths there kind of a wait and see situation. Uh, temperature is also a really big factor, uh, in terms of how many moths survive winter, right? Uh, or how many of those eggs are still able to, uh, to hatch and, uh, deliver us with these little, uh, larva in the, uh, in the, uh, winter.

[00:25:37] I think it's called the army cut root, uh, or army cutworm, something like that is what they emerge as. Um, but either way, temperature, big factor. Uh, this winter was notably warm. One of the warmest Colorado's, uh, uh, one of the warmest winters in Colorado since I've been here, uh, for sure. I think in several cities, one of the warmest, uh, winters on record. That probably means that, that these populations are doing pretty well, um, based on that factor alone. Right.

[00:26:08] Um, you also got to think as well in terms of, um, will these moths be sticking around Colorado much or these front ring cities much, um, in terms of how long they'll stay here. They don't like heat. So if this trend of heatness or this trend of warmth continues, uh, they'll probably be more likely to move to the mountains earlier, but then the mountains also is where some of the most severe drought in the state is going to be. So you kind of have all these conflicting factors where, and if it sounds chaotic, it

[00:26:34] is because it is a bit chaotic where you have, uh, you know, record setting dryness, record setting, uh, winter warmth. Um, and then this heat wave that continues. And then this turn in spring where all of a sudden there's all this moisture. Uh, it's a lot of conflicting factors in terms of what the appearance of these moths will be. Um, so we have to turn to an expert because I'm no expert.

[00:26:57] Um, KKTV, a Colorado Springs news organization caught up with, uh, Ryan St. Laurent from CU Boulder, uh, to chat with him about what he thought these moths would be doing this year. Um, he said it would be fairly normal was his prediction. So not an absence of moths, not, you know, just an over, over total invasion, whelming invasion of moths. Um, but instead of looking at any of the factors that I just mentioned, right.

[00:27:25] Uh, which all do have an impact on, on moths and how they're seen. Um, he looked at last fall as, as a key factor and when these eggs are being laid, right. Remember they return, uh, from the mountains in the fall, they lay these eggs, those eggs hatch in the next spring. Um, looking at last fall, uh, he described the plains as dry, uh, which meant there were fewer places that were ideal for these millimoths to lay their eggs.

[00:27:50] So in a sense, uh, kind of all these competing factors, uh, what this expert is saying is that we're looking at a pretty normal year for millimoths. So all that to say not much. I was going to say, people hate, people hate, uh, normal years for millimoths, don't they? They hate any year when millimoths. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think, uh, you know, people don't like bugs flying with their face, right?

[00:28:16] Like that's, that's something that I think most, uh, uh, most people around the world would agree on. Um, that said, millimoths do serve a very important role. Thank you. I'm glad you're bringing this up. Uh, the butterfly pavilion up in Denver, they have a whole report on this kind of what role does a millimoth serve. And I think once you realize that this important role exists, um, it makes it a little bit easier to tolerate these moths, you know?

[00:28:43] Um, one of those roles being that they are nighttime pollinators. Right. So while, uh, a lot of insects are not out and about at night pollinating things, millimoths are. Uh, so it really gives a boost to the agricultural industry. Um, at the same time too, uh, millimoths are a key source of food for birds and bats, um, especially bats. So, uh, you know, same trickle effect where, because these moths are here, um, more of Colorado's

[00:29:12] species that we all love are able to be sustained. So. I'm glad you mentioned that, man. Yeah. I wrote an essay. I think like it was during, during COVID, like in 2020, that was a really, I remember that being a really, uh, I was going to say bad, but that's not the right word. A really, uh, big year for millimoths. Everyone was kind of up in arms about millimoths amid the chaos of life at that time. Right. Right. Just another agent of despair is how I came to see these millimoths at that time. Right.

[00:29:37] And you learn more about them and come to, you know, I found out things like, uh, you know, if they fly around erratic like that in the house, it's cause they don't want to be there. Yeah. Right. They're probably uncomfortable. Uh, they probably followed light into your house. Uh, they typically followed the moon and the stars is my understanding, right. How they navigate and they were fooled into your house that way. They don't want to be there is kind of the point. Right. So, uh, you gotta, I, uh, I, uh, I came to make peace with these, uh, with these invaders

[00:30:07] and, uh, I maintain that today. I don't, I don't like killing a millimoth. I won't kill a millimoth anymore. So the same year you and I were on the same, same page, right? Yeah. Same year. I came out with a game, uh, that saves the lives of millimoths. Right. Um, essentially you get one of these little like dry erase boards in the house and you have a stack of like red solo cups. Right. And, uh, everyone in the house gets their name on the board and you tally how many moths you're able to save by capturing in the cup.

[00:30:35] You take a piece of paper, trap it in there, release it outside. You get one point for moths saved. So as this, as moth season, I mean, I mentioned they start to appear, you know, late April, early May. Uh, it really hits its peak like May into, into June, I would say. Uh, but as they start to appear, play that game. Yeah. It makes it, it definitely makes it fun. And then instead of looking at these moths as like a pest, they need to, uh, you know, smash or something like that.

[00:31:02] Uh, you're just releasing them outside and they've got a long journey ahead of them too. Yeah. They've got to make it all the way to the mountains, all the predators along the way, um, to a very drought ridden mountain scene this year, to be honest. And then they've got to make it all the way back. So you're talking a hundred plus miles of travel for these little moths that are just migrating around the state. You might have to patent that game, Spencer. I know, right? You might have people around the state. Start selling a cup. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:29] Uh, or like, I, I'm starting to like see your face like on a Miller moth's body or something, you know? I think Tim will put that photo up here. That'd be a good use of AI. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. Um, but yeah, um, yeah, um, yeah. No, I mean, it's, uh, I've done it every year and it's, uh, just sometimes just playing against myself. If any, uh, guests are in the house, you know, they're able to, able to join the game.

[00:31:55] But yeah, this year the cats might, uh, cats might have their way with the moths before I can save them. Um, but either way, that's, uh, that's the moth forecast. So essentially all that to say expected normal moth season this year. Um, shouldn't be, shouldn't be anything too crazy. And, uh, you know, if those moths do pop up, try to not kill them. Happy saving. Yep. Uh, what else we got here on the list today?

[00:32:26] You tell me, uh, you're the keeper of the list. You know what? You mentioned it earlier, but I kind of want to get into the 10th mountain division. Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned this. We were talking about maybe saving it, but you're right. It is, it is Memorial Day weekend coming up and, uh, yeah, I think a 10th mountain division could be a good thing to chat about. Yeah. What better time, right? Yeah. To recall perhaps, uh, Colorado's most legendary, uh, army unit, right?

[00:32:55] The 10th mountain division. Trained at a camp hail, right? Uh, and the legend grew at a camp hail. Yeah. Mountains out by Leadville, um, which is now camp hail. Is it a national historic site? Uh, national monument. Yeah. National monument. National monument. Camp hail, continental divide, national monument, something like that. Yeah. Yeah. It's an amazing story. You've, you've read up on the story of the 10th mountain division, right? Yeah.

[00:33:21] And Reva Ridge, uh, being, I think, isn't it Vail that has a run called Reva Ridge area? Yeah. That's right. Um, but Reva Ridge being a famous battle that, uh, took place. Um, I believe it was. 1945. In Alps. Yeah. I'm going to pull it up exactly where it took place. So I don't get this wrong. Um, but yeah, it was a decisive battle in the war where you essentially had people putting

[00:33:47] mountaineering abilities to the test in the battlefield to, uh, if I remember correctly, pull off, uh, essentially a sneak attack where they're able to scale mountain, uh, mountainous terrain that was considered to be unscalable, uh, by using tools like axes and crampons and, and getting up there and getting a jump on the axis forces. So, um, yeah. And forge through to German controlled territories and further dismantle that German control all

[00:34:16] the way to, uh, to victory. That was a key point, uh, in world war II, no doubt about it. And those were soldiers, um, like you said, out of camp Hale and Leadville, uh, ideal, uh, place, uh, for training and mountainous terrain, right. To prepare them for that pivotal moment. The idea for, uh, uh, uh, you know, it was the image of skiing soldiers, you know, really,

[00:34:44] uh, uh, hit, hit the nation. You know, a lot of people captivated by this image of those men in white suits with a rifle on skis. Right. And, um, that was a, it was, it was a, it was a concept kind of pushed by the founder of the national ski patrol, right. Who, um, saw conflicts previously around the world where soldiers in their home mountains were able to dispatch much greater forces. Right.

[00:35:13] So this concept of being able to master terrain was seen as, uh, critical for winning battles and winning major wars like world war two. And Reva Ridge is kind of a moment that showcased that in a very tragic and bloody way. Right. Um, men killed and, um, but yeah, key to, to winning world war two and saving the world. Yeah.

[00:35:40] And, and to correct myself real quick too, I said the Alps, it was the, uh, it was not the Alps. It is the, uh, a Penin mountains of Italy. So Mount Belvedere, right. Pushing over Mount Belvedere. Was the, uh, was the, uh, famous peak there. So man, I was so fortunate, uh, back in 2024 to meet Robert Jones. Uh, and it was ahead of his a hundredth birthday, um, ahead of his death later that year in 2024.

[00:36:06] Um, but at least from one 10th mountain division historian that I talked to, you know, he considered, uh, Mr. Jones to, to, as far as he was aware of being the last living 10th mountain division member living in Colorado still. So I got to sit down with Mr. Robert Jones and, um, you know, hear his story. And, um, it just kind of is a reminder of just these stories getting lost over time. Right.

[00:36:33] Not, not many world war two veterans left anymore. And certainly not many left from this, this unit that prevailed over river Ridge. So yeah, I'm glad we're talking about that story, man. I think it's a, an important story connected to Colorado. Yeah. I mean, even just looking at the ski resorts around the state, the number of ski resorts and ski areas that were started, especially when you look at some of them that are now defunct, uh, that were started by people that returned from the 10th mountain division,

[00:37:01] uh, after the war and then, you know, started the ski resort. I mean like Vail, right. Vail first and foremost. Arapahoe Basin, I think. Right. Arapahoe Basin. Yeah. Was by, uh. Keystone. Right. I want to say Keystone may have been, but yeah, I mean, it just dots the whole, uh, dots the whole, uh, state with all these, uh, all these spots. Interesting connection to 10th mountain division back in, uh, back in college, I did a study abroad in very small town, England. Right.

[00:37:30] Um, wanted to do the one in one, but it was too expensive, but, uh, very small town, England. And, uh, we're staying at this place, which is essentially like a castle like looking thing. Uh, uh, but very, very remote. So, and, um, there, they had a whole memorial there for the 10th mountain division who stayed there, uh, kind of in between, in between, uh, missions and things. They were, they were occupying that area as, uh, friendlies in England.

[00:37:56] And, um, yeah, it was a weird connection that I didn't, didn't fully understand until I got to Colorado. Yeah. Yeah. Connections. I just, I just pulled it up. I had to refresh my memory. Vail most certainly in terms of just 10th mountain connections to ski resorts as we now, as we know it now. Vail being one of them. Aspen being another one. You mentioned a basin, of course, ski Cooper. Right. I mean, you really feel it at ski Cooper. That's where they do the 90 pound rucksack challenge too. Yeah. Which is, uh, yeah.

[00:38:24] Cause weren't they carrying like 90 pounds a gear or something while when they were going over Riva? Yeah. Amazing. Breckenridge is another one, you know, with ties to men who served the 10th mountain division. So yeah, I mean, men who, uh, who were essential to winning world war two were also essential to the ski resort in Colorado and beyond, uh, industry, the ski resort industry in Colorado and beyond as we know it now. Pretty amazing. Amazing story. Yeah.

[00:38:52] Also worth noting, uh, related to camp hail, uh, I don't know where it stands now. I think it's still a, an active warning, but beware of live munitions. If you are, if you're exploring that area off trails and everything, um, over the, over the past decade or so, cause there, there were training out there, right? Yeah. Uh, so there was some live munitions might be behind. Really? I had never heard that. Yeah. About every, I would say every like two years or so we cover a story about someone uncovering

[00:39:20] live munitions, uh, in that area or elsewhere in the mountains. Wow. Um, sometimes left behind from avalanche mitigation, of course. Uh, but other times left behind because there was serious military, military training going on, like up in, uh, the area around Colorado slash America's highest incorporated city. So. Wow. Yeah. Pretty wild stuff. I never heard that. Yeah. Yeah. I can't, uh, the 10th mountain division though, always something worth, um, worth remembering, especially around this time of the year. Yeah.

[00:39:51] Especially if you're a skier and snowboarder, you know, gotta be thankful. And they did come back. Am I right in thinking they initially came back and were based at, um, uh, Carson here in Colorado Springs. Oh, really? Ever so briefly. Yeah. Um, before now, I mean, uh, that legacy continues in New York, right? Isn't that regiment now in, in New York? Uh, yeah, I believe so. I believe so. Um, yeah.

[00:40:17] And if you're really interested in hearing more about the 10th mountain division, uh, this was a while back. Um, but I had an interview with, uh, with somebody on the out there, Colorado podcast, Christian Beckwith. You'll have to scroll back to October 22nd of 2024 for this episode. Um, but he's a historian that covers the 10th mountain division. Uh, very, very fascinating, uh, podcast that he does.

[00:40:44] Uh, it's called 90 pound rucksack, uh, but a really in-depth dive into, into the whole topic. That's great. Um, one of the big takeaways that I remember from that conversation is just how much the 10th mountain division impacted outdoor recreation gear too, because you had to, essentially they were trying to, you know, make military gear mountain worthy. Uh, so a lot of innovations in terms of like waterproofing, in terms of like how boots were

[00:41:10] designed, uh, in terms of, you know, a lot of the stuff that you take camping with you. Uh, a lot of that was invented because of world war two and the 10th mountain division. Makes sense. So definitely, definitely listen to that podcast. It's 55 minutes long, totally worth checking out. Um, and he does get into a re-verage in, in depth and, and chats about exactly what happened during that, uh, during that series of fighting and series of battles and, um, what gave, uh,

[00:41:39] the, the allied troops the advantage and, and really led to a turning point in the war. So. Yeah. Good stuff. Yeah. Good story for Memorial Day. Here, let's close it out with something fun. Let's talk favorite barbecue. Speaking of Memorial Day, right? So. Yeah. Best barbecue in Colorado for Memorial Day. What do you got, Seth? Best, uh, all right, uh, two, maybe three come to mind the best I've had. I got, I can't mention one without the other. Put it that way. Right.

[00:42:09] They're kind of neck and neck in my mind. Uh, I'm thinking about, uh, switchback smokehouse in Kittredge. You ever driven through Kittredge? This is a reason to drive through Kittredge. Uh, kind of outside Evergreen there in the quaint hills, uh, beyond Evergreen, right along Bear Creek is this smokehouse. You got to get there before they sell out. So, man, it was good. Uh, I'm remembering a, uh, it's like I'd never had Montreal style brisket as it's listed on the menu. Like thin brisket. Ooh. Right?

[00:42:39] Which seems like a sin, right? But man, it was good. That sounds good. It was great. It was like candy. They also had bacon very much like candy. And smoked duck. I had smoked duck over there. That was good. Uh, another one. I think, didn't we mention marble in this show last week? We did. Another reason to go to marble is for slow grooving barbecue. That's awesome stuff. That's a seasonal gem there.

[00:43:03] I'm remembering bonkers sandwiches, um, over at slow grooving and marble. And then here in Colorado Springs, uh, believe the hype on the chuck wagon. That is, that is bomb. People line up at the door, uh, before they open, before they sell out. Uh, if you've never had the Texas Twinkie, this is the place to do it. Bacon wrapped jalapeno smoked and stuffed with cream treat cheese and brisket.

[00:43:34] They have a, uh, beef dino bone that you understand why it's named that when you look at it. It's huge. It's unbelievable. Um, so yeah, I think, I think those are my three favorites that I've had that come to mind. Got some yourself? Yeah. So many people would say my backyard. One, yeah, right. Oh, one that I like, uh, in another mountain town, I like smoke barbecue, uh, in Glenwood Springs.

[00:44:02] So that's one where you might have to, might have to stop by that one. Two that I see get mentioned, uh, in the Denver area a ton, uh, riot barbecue. Yeah. Right. And then, uh, post Oak, uh, barbecue. So those are two that just any, any time you see the topic of Colorado barbecue come up, both of those are always on the list. I haven't been to either of those and I need to, you know, maybe pop up there. Even this weekend to check them out. Yeah. Um, I said it last week. I think Rudy's is underrated. Yeah.

[00:44:32] I think of the other Colorado. I mean, you mentioned Chuck wagon already, which that gets maybe the most attention in terms of Colorado Springs barbecue. Uh, but I also like front range barbecue. I like their sandwiches. Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a classic down there in, in old Colorado city. Um, it's been featured on, uh, what is it? Uh, drive-ins diners and dives. Right. It's been featured on there for a reason for the sandwich. And their sandwich is very good.

[00:44:56] And that old Colorado city spot, uh, is closed for renovations right now, but they very recently announced opening this secondary location on the other side of town. Really pumped about that. Yeah. Cause I love front range barbecue. I'm with you. Uh, bird dog too. Yeah. Right. Bird dog. Big one in town. Um, big one in town. I really liked their wasabi. Uh, I've heard that. I've never had that. Yeah. It's, I, I'm a big fan of horseradish and, uh, like I never said that word, right. Especially when I put it on the spot, but, uh, almost as hard as worstest research. Yes.

[00:45:26] Right. Worstest research. Horse radish. There we go. Uh, but big fan of that. And, uh, bird dog has their wasabi sauce, which very good. Try that. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't guess. Yeah, man. I, uh, I mean, it's hard to go wrong with barbecue in Colorado. People don't talk about barbecue in Colorado, but I think one thing, like Texas has its barbecue. I was going to say. Texas has its barbecue. Kansas city has its barbecue. Montreal has its barbecue. Who would have, who would have guessed?

[00:45:55] But what Colorado does really well is they kind of have a little bit of all these different types of barbecue. Yeah. Uh, with Colorado being the melting pot that it is, uh, you kind of get the best of every world in a sense, at least in my opinion. I mean, Austin barbecue is hard to beat. Hey, I'm a big Kansas city guy. Went to school in Missouri. Yeah. I came here. I was in Alabama before this. So I got to know the white sauce in Alabama. I'm down with that. Yeah. But yeah, I'm with you.

[00:46:21] I mean, it's impossible to, uh, to overlook the Colorado and Texas connection. No doubt. Uh, I think we can, we can thank Texans for some of the best barbecue we eat here in Colorado. Yeah. Texans wouldn't be up here as much if we didn't at least have good barbecue. We love you, Texas. Thank you, Texas. Yeah. There's, there's a very big, uh, very big pro that the Texans bring with them. Yeah. Delicious meats. Yeah.

[00:46:47] Before you complain about that driver in front of you with the Texas license plates, before you complain about traffic, just remember you have them to thank for some of the best barbecue around. Yeah. There we go. All right. Let's end it there. Um, didn't get into, uh, didn't get into several of these topics. We keep putting off maybe Wednesday. We just have to have a dedicated day of evergreen. Finally talk about this America's first serial killers.

[00:47:15] We always got news that gets in the way. And I finally talk about this crazy house on I-70. Yeah. Finally talk about, uh, this dinosaur track site that you can hike to that is not the one in, uh, Southeast Colorado. Mm-hmm. Uh, a prettier one, potentially. Yeah, prettier is hard to say. Both, both beautiful spots, but it's in Ure. So. Yeah. Maybe one of the prettiest places in the country. In the San Juan Mountains compared to Southeast. Yeah.

[00:47:41] People have, uh, ideas of, of one being more prettier than the other. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean. Yeah. It's, if it wasn't in one of the most beautiful, beautiful places in the country, undoubtedly. Yeah. I'd feel bad about saying that. But. Yeah. Very cool spot. Very cool story behind it. Maybe we'll talk about that on Wednesday. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. Just maybe. But until then, I'm Spencer. I'm Seth. And we'll see you out there.