Death on Manitou Incline; Movie being filmed in CO; Trip to Glenwood Springs; Tensions in Telluride; & More

[00:00:06] Welcome to another episode of the The OutThere Colorado Podcast. Once again, I'm Spencer here with Seth. Hello. We got Tim over there in the audio booth and on the video for today, per usual. Your drink is fuzzy today. My drink is fuzzy today. I'm about to just check my alarms too, just to make sure we don't have the same disaster that we've had where the alarms go off. But yes, my drink is fuzzy. This is my favorite koozie. I was cleaning out some stuff and I found it. It's furry. Thought I'd bring it in. Yeah, it's like...

[00:00:36] I dare say it looks like my golden doodles. Yeah, like golden doodle fur. I got it probably 10 years ago at one of the outdoor recreation conventions. It looks like from Bear Paw, whoever they are. So shout out to them for... Shout out to Bear Paw. I think they make like, I want to say like feets and stuff. I don't know, but very good koozies. Some people like Bear Paws. I like Bear Claws, man. Yeah. My favorite kind of donut. Yeah, it's a good one. Why are we always thinking about food on this show? And donuts. I saw a little thing on Instagram.

[00:01:06] It was showing how much sugar is in a donut compared to like a soda. And it was like several donuts worth as in like a big soda or something like that. Soda's worse. Yeah. So my takeaway was, dang, I could be eating a lot more donuts. Yeah, there you go. Yeah. I was like, I need to start adding more donuts to my routine. Oh, yeah. That's how I'm going to look at it now, man. Because I don't drink soda. So, you know, I got to make up for it. Mm-hmm. These statements are not verified by any sort of health professional, but...

[00:01:35] Yeah. We're not making any recommendations. Actually, we are. Eat more donuts. Donut Mill up in Woodland Park. Head there. Yeah. How was your weekend, Seth? You had a pretty beautiful weekend. Really good. I had a donut. From where? From Sweet Colorado. Ooh. In Glenwood Springs. That's a popular one. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one. All they had left, I rolled into town. Kind of an interesting little itinerary I had, just the way it worked out for my schedule and my wife's schedule. We actually

[00:02:01] went out west on Monday, on Memorial Day. Oh, really? And then came back Tuesday. And tell you what, I know it's like a tough thing for people to pull off after a long weekend to kind of extend it like that a little more. But man, for all the... And I carry the same fears that people have of just having to take on mountain travel over Memorial Day weekend, right? Saturday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, what that looks like in the mountains. We

[00:02:29] all know how crazy that can be. But boy, Monday going west, smooth sailings out on I-70. There you go. And then you're just kind of waving to all the traffic coming back on east, you know? So anyway, that's a long way of saying it's kind of a neat way of getting into the mountains on that Monday and Tuesday. Dang. So you packed a lot into that trip. Sure did, yeah. Just being, you know, a 24-hour trip there. Yeah. I mean, we stopped at Outer Range, grabbed our favorite brewer at Outer Range.

[00:02:58] In Summit County. In Summit County in Frisco, right? A good stop there on I-70 to kind of break it up. And then proceeded to catch Sweet Colorado before they closed. 4.8 stars on Google. Seth with another good recommendation. All they had left were the gluten-free donuts, but they were still good. Yeah. Colorado spelled dough. Right. At the end for people looking. Naturally. Yeah. Proceeded on up to pay our respects to Doc Holliday. Just a good way to stretch the legs and hike up the hill to Doc Holliday's grave in Glenwood.

[00:03:28] How long is that? It's always cool. Oh, I don't know if it was a half mile up. Yeah. Yeah. It's quick. But that's kind of a neat way of learning a little Wild West legend. I don't know how many people are aware that, yeah, Doc Holliday was laid to rest in Glenwood. Very cool. Went there seeking a cure for his sickness and died there. That legend, his legend came to an end there. Pretty cool to see that grave up there. Dipped into the Hot Springs, the biggest Hot Springs pool in the world. Glenwood Hot Springs.

[00:03:57] Glenwood Hot Springs. You got Iron Mountain there too, but you opted for Glenwood. Yep. That was the deal for the day. Were you staying at that hotel? We were. Staying at the Hotel Colorado. Yeah. So that's the other thing. I mean, rates are cheaper on Memorial Day Mondays. Oh, yeah. You can pull off a really cool hotel like Hotel Colorado. Very cool. I was really excited to show off that place to my wife. She'd never been to Hotel Colorado. So walked across the way, did that. That was great. Those new Yampa mineral baths off to the side there. Nice little addition.

[00:04:26] Those five smaller pools there. And then Hanging Lake in the morning. Finally hiked Hanging Lake. I know we'll talk about that a little more, but that was beautiful. If you haven't been in a while, I'd never been in my 10 years. I think I've been on the show talking about it. That was one of my bucket lists for the summer. I'm starting to check things off. Checked it off. Checked it off, brother. But yeah, my understanding is that trail has really changed pretty drastically.

[00:04:51] The reconstruction that happened on that trail following the big fire around there in 2020. Followed by the flooding and stuff that happened. Mudslides, laneslides. And prompted that big reconstruction in the years since. And yeah, I'd be curious to pick your brain on what it was like before and what I was seeing. Yeah, I haven't been up there. I haven't been up there since before COVID. Yeah, I was going to say you got there before the fire. Yeah, I've been up there twice. Full time is beautiful.

[00:05:19] I'm curious if they've made it feel a little bit more commercialized, you know, a little bit less rugged. I'm thinking so. Yeah. I mean, stone steps. It's really defined by stone steps now. Like three-fourths of that trail. Yeah, I feel like that wasn't quite how it was before. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, cool stuff. Yeah, that was great. And then on the way home, went over Hoosier Pass on the way home and got the best chicken sandwich in Colorado at Otto's. Yeah. Once you said Hoosier Pass, I knew that's where you were headed. I know where he's going. Yeah, I know.

[00:05:48] I know what routes you take around the state. Mostly food-driven. Yeah, yeah. If you had the tracker, you know how people have like, you track their phones. If you happen to check me where I was at, what time was that? On Tuesday at noon going up Hoosier Pass or even approaching it, you know, you'd be like, Seth's going to Otto's to get a fried chicken sandwich. Honestly, probably if I saw you stopped in Frisco, I'd know you were at Otto's Ranch too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Two great spots. I mean, every food recommendation you have is a good one.

[00:06:17] Yeah, our favorite spots. So it was, like you said, a quick trip, but filled with a lot of fun stuff that we like to do every now and then. Yeah, very cool. How about you, man? What were you up to? Pretty chill weekend. Started the weekend off watching the Avs lose at Nova West down in Olcara City. Cool. Which, it was right before all the, I guess, what would that have been? Thursday or Friday. Getting into Territory Days. Yeah. Territory Days had not started yet. They were setting it up. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:47] So missed the hustle and bustle there. But yeah, watch them lose there on a massive screen. Nova West had a big screen. We don't talk about Nova West much, but it's an arcade bar down in a little historic part of Cara Springs. Cool spot. Yeah, it is cool. Yeah, I got some motorcycle riding in. I did pop up to Paradox Brewery up in Divide on the bike, Tokyo Pass. Nice. My little group ride there, and that was fun.

[00:07:15] Yeah, I mean, really, it was kind of just a productive weekend for me around town. Good for you. So nothing too crazy. I did hit White Pie. Ate an entire pizza by myself at White Pie. Not by myself, but with people. People were there watching me eat this entire pizza by myself. Witness this. I had plans to bring half of it home, but- Yo, speaking of pizza in Old Colorado City. Leopold's. Yeah. Yeah, that was where we were going to go. But it was a mess down there trying to park. It would have been Monday. For territory. Yeah.

[00:07:45] Yeah. It would have been Monday, and it was chaos. You have how many thousands of people, 10 plus thousand people in this little part of town with neighborhood streets. But I'm sure Leopold's was very excited to open for that festival. Yeah. At that festival, yeah. I mean, I plan on going there at some point this week. Their sandwiches look so good. That's what I'll- I'm going to be getting like two sandwiches. They have like this hero sandwich that looks good. Yeah. They got this like a chicken cutlet sandwich, kind of like a parmesan. Yeah. That's what I'm going to get. It looks nuts.

[00:08:13] I'll maybe rely on someone to get pizza so I can try it. But yeah. Looks amazing. But yeah, pretty chill weekend for the most part. Cool. Yeah. Let's get into some of this news, though. Did you see a man-to-incline death occurred? I did. Yeah. We covered that a bit over the weekend. Tragic. But yeah, tragic situation. We were just talking about the man-to-incline being a very strenuous hike. Sure were. A few weeks ago. Yeah.

[00:08:41] 48-year-old male, Nick Jagalev, passed away after having some trouble breathing on the incline around the 900th step. He was with some Cub Scouts at the time, apparently with his nine-year-old son at the time. Got taken in medical care and then ultimately succumbed to that ailment. There is a GoFundMe that's been set up for his family. He leaves behind his wife and their blended family of seven children.

[00:09:10] Some of whom have special needs. So that GoFundMe is pretty easy to find. Just on the GoFundMe website, support for the Jagalev family after loss. It's J-O-G-O-L-E-V. It's raised $55,000 already. So a lot of support from the community. But yeah, all around just a very tragic situation. A reminder of how difficult that hike is. He'd been training for the hike. He'd done it before. Yep. Just, you know, it's something that happens on that hike. Yeah.

[00:09:40] You know, I think you and I were talking about a few weeks ago with it, with us being clear about this man seemingly very familiar with the incline. I mean, nonetheless, I mean, it's a very strenuous hike. And I think like elsewhere in the outdoors, like people approach the outdoors with this idea of a level of risk. Right. Right. And for all we know, this man very well could have approached the incline just like that for sure, you know.

[00:10:06] At the same time, you and I were talking a few weeks ago that we kind of wonder like how much that really is for something that is like marketed as an attraction, you know. And how much thought people really put into going to an attraction versus embarking into the outdoors. Right. And yeah, this is just it's it's a an extreme workout. Right. And yeah. There's no hike like it. No.

[00:10:34] And yeah, I guess it's just as we we've said before, it seems like just another tragic reminder of a mindset that's needed for something like that. Yeah. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And I mean, and I would venture to say, too, that every single person that shows up for the first time ends up underestimating it. Even if you've built it in your head is this like crazy hike. Yeah. It's still very difficult and lives up to that hype. That first time that you start stepping up there and you you see that false summit and you're just demoralized by that. Yeah.

[00:11:04] And our bodies are our bodies. Yeah. You know, I mean, there's just no guarantees when our limited bodies take on an intense thing like that. So I'm no doctor, you know, I'm doing a little speculating there, but yes, just, you know, important messaging for for something like that. Yeah. And I were talking about a few weeks ago. Yeah. And there might be some more information that comes out about that death in in upcoming days.

[00:11:30] Oftentimes it's a cardiac related issues tend to rear their head. I don't I'm not, you know, medical savvy enough to know whether or not the breathing issues are related to that. But yeah. Yeah. So very tragic situation and a reminder of how how wild that hike is. Got some other news from the Colorado Springs area. There's a horror movie that's being filmed in Colorado right now. Heard about this.

[00:11:57] So this movie is being filmed in Colorado Springs, Fountain, Victor, Sedalia, Calhan and Golden set to be filmed into kind of the start of June. It's called Devil in the Trunk. And essentially sounds ominous. This this young woman, as she has described, encounters this mysterious traveler with one rule, and that's don't look in the trunk. So kind of a cool setup.

[00:12:22] What I think is really interesting about this this movie is that it's not being filmed in the mountains. Right. It's being filmed on the eastern plains because of how like isolated and rugged and, you know, just stretching and vast and remote those planes feel. So really cool setting for this this movie that they're describing as a supernatural neo-noir revenge western. Oh. So is this the one being produced by the former county coroner? Um, I don't know about that. Leon Kelly. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:52] So, yeah. I didn't realize he was a former county coroner. Yeah. Yeah. That's a there's a great story. I think that my colleague Jen Molson of the Gazette wrote about Leon Kelly. I believe I'm right in saying former county coroner here in El Paso County. He's just the outgoing. Yeah. So the executive producers, Dr. Leon Kelly and Dr. Dan Limkefelter, I'm going to say, they're described as forensic pathologists. Yeah. But they also founded the Six Feet Under Horror Fest. Right. Yeah.

[00:13:21] And that's kind of what the story is about him. Like if you wonder, like, I guess, like we make assumptions of coroners must be kind of, you know, morbid curiosity or a little creepy, you know? I would say that's a fair stereotype. I think this guy, this guy persona, this guy like leans into it, you know, like loves horror movies, loves horror. And yeah, this film kind of encapsulates that. It sounds like. Yeah. It's directed by Evan Alderson. And I really like the way that he described the landscape that they're using and just this rural setting.

[00:13:51] He says, a devil in the trunk takes place on rural highways of the American West. It's an isolated landscape where people themselves are isolated, which presents a perfect playground for the devil. Sure. So. Yeah. Kind of. I mean, it'll be interesting, man. I like, I mentioned it the other week when we were talking about movies filmed in Colorado. But Cop Car, the Kevin Bacon movie, how that's filmed kind of in this plains area opposed to in the mountains where it shows this rural side of Colorado that people don't see. I'm excited to see what the final product looks like.

[00:14:21] I've always, my mind has always often gone to like pioneers coming out on wagons, you know, across the plains. And it must have just been like being out on just an open ocean, you know. Nowadays, in today's modern world, we have an expectation. We know where we're going. You know, we've seen these environments by now. But like back then, how scary that must have been, you know. And a lot of. Coming out and just not knowing where you're really going until those mountains boom into view. Yeah.

[00:14:50] No clue where you're going. A lot of risks along the way. Yeah. People that have maybe seen 1883, the television show. But Taylor Sheridan, part of the Yellowstone family. But a standalone 10 episode, I believe, series really seems to capture that like isolation where you are just kind of heading out west. And like you said, it's just a vast sea of rolling hills and who knows what. You know. Yeah.

[00:15:17] Danger around any turn where it's like things can go from good to bad in a second. And then you're also dealing with having to have water and food and protecting yourselves. Yeah. Like it's wild stuff. Yeah. But yeah. So I'll be excited to check this out. Yeah. Again, that's called Devil in the Trunk. Yeah. Seems like a cool situation for Southern Colorado. That's actually how they described it too.

[00:15:45] They said this in one of the press releases I was reading. They said this production represents a significant milestone for independent filmmaking in Southern Colorado with a fully funded $250,000 budget, production budget already secured. So, yeah. Cool to see stuff filmed in Southern Colorado. Let's keep it up. I want to see Colorado on the silver screen more. Yeah. What else can we get into here? So, you alluded to us probably talking about Hanging Lake a bit more.

[00:16:14] Pound for pound, do you think Hanging Lake Trail is the most beautiful trail in Colorado? You know, having just done it for the first time a couple days ago, I have a hard time thinking of anything better pound for pound off the top of my head. Yeah. It's just beautiful. You got to keep in mind too, it's only like 1.2 miles long. Right. Very steep. You got like 1,200 feet of gain or so.

[00:16:38] You've got just, I don't know how lush it was when you were there, but when I was on it, you kind of had like little mini waterfalls just on the sides of the trails. Or on the side of the trail. Down the mossy hillsides. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely beautiful. Dreamy. Dreamy. Like it has an interstate exit for a reason. Right? Well, and that's where my mind went. Like right away, like you pull off and you feel like you just entered this alternate universe. And interstate 70 is just a stone's throw away, you know? Yeah.

[00:17:07] But you feel like you are way away. Mm-hmm. And I mean, it's just like even the approach, like from this rest area, going up this sidewalk along the Colorado River and Glenwood Canyon's ancient walls and monoliths are just looming over it. It's just fantastic. Just the sidewalk. Mm-hmm. I mean, is there a more beautiful stretch of pavement? Yeah, right. It's true.

[00:18:00] You know? It's like a bunch of stone steps like it is now. Yeah, I remember it being, and I haven't hiked it since before COVID, but I remember it being a little bit more rugged on the trail than I was expecting for how big of a tourist attraction it is. Yeah. A little bit rooty. I was there on a day where it had previously rained, so it was kind of muddy going up that trail and a little bit slick.

[00:18:22] It's one of the trails where they used to have a pretty major problem with the number of search and rescue calls that would have to be made to that trail system. I mean, a big part of it was people underestimating what it's like to climb something that steep when it's also slick with mud. So it sounds like a lot of these improvements have really cut back on the need for search and rescue there. And maybe the natural guard with the permits now, like reservations only and messaging, getting out, and capping numbers.

[00:18:52] I mean, some incidents really can come down to a numbers game, you know, just the sheer number of people that were doing it before to now. But, yeah, it's just spectacular, man. You know, I mean, you can have, if you've never done it before, you can only have so many expectations going into it. But it's a whole other thing to actually just be in the embrace of that beautiful canyon going up through the greenery, like you said.

[00:19:18] I mean, toward the top, those mossy hillsides where it's just streams coming down, glistening in the morning sun as it was for me. Just spectacular. Well, and you get up there, too, and it's very developed at the top. Like, it's a whole boardwalk area that you're able to see these waterfalls from. I think some people tend to stray away from it because they don't like that development. But honestly, like, it caters to it. It was at least my opinion when I was there. Did you make it to Spouting Rock, too? Yes.

[00:19:47] Maybe an unsung hero of Hanging Lake. The source, right? Spouting from the rock above. I think it's like just 200 yards up the way above the famous scene that is Hanging Lake. You go up, and here's another single waterfall just gushing from the rock there, from a slot in the rock. It seems like another miracle in its own that something like that exists, you know?

[00:20:10] I tell you, man, I mean, yeah, just being at Hanging Lake and looking at the adjacent ridge and seeing the burned trees from that 2020 wildfire and just thinking, how did that fire not jump over here? How is this still here? Just made me feel so grateful, honestly, that I got to see it. Yeah. I mean, I would say there are a lot of beautiful places in Colorado. Between Hanging Lake, Spouting Rock, the trail along the way, it's hard to beat.

[00:20:40] Even with the commercialization, it's hard to beat. Yeah. Believe the hype, I would say. But yeah, you know, I mean, people have feelings about that reservation system, for sure. I think I paid $12 to book a slot. For the car, right? Right. To park per person, just per vehicle. Yeah. To park. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, I came back, and I did really early. I got like the 8 a.m. slot, and I came back, and like parking was filling. It was still on a Tuesday. Yeah.

[00:21:09] So obviously, it's still getting lots of love, but seemingly in a more regulated, controlled way now. There's a shuttle system, too, nowadays, which I think is seasonal. I don't know if it's kicked in yet, but you can get there from Glenwood Springs via shuttle as well. Can you? Yeah. There's some sort of a shuttle system. I haven't done it. Because I was thinking, like, when I booked my permit, I was going to have to get on a shuttle. I think it seems at all. But I didn't see any mention of the shuttle. Yeah. Maybe it was before. I want to say. I don't know. Maybe not. Maybe they've changed that. Yeah. They may have changed that, so don't call me on that. Yeah. Check it out.

[00:21:39] They might have changed it. It might just be parking. It's easy enough. If you go in, at least for me it was, go in Hanging Lake, I booked the permit, no problem. But there's something to be said about, especially, like, yeah, when I booked it, what did I do super early? Because I just, this time of year in Colorado, I just assume afternoon storms, right? So I want to stay away from that. But I do kind of wonder about that. Like, if morning slots are getting booked up, people are getting pushed into the afternoon and dealing with the potential risks of storms.

[00:22:08] You know, that's maybe a side effect of this. Maybe not, you know. But man, yeah. If you've never done it, it's worth it. But as far as the shuttle goes, you are able to take a private vehicle, not an Uber or Lyft. You can't use a rideshare. But there is no official shuttle service anymore. Okay. I think there used to be. There definitely used to be. Yeah. Because I was expecting it. Yeah. I don't know when that went up or not. But yeah. And I was thinking about it, too.

[00:22:38] But just looking at all the spots filling up, I was thinking, boy, people might be needing to come in on this on a shuttle. Yeah. Man, part of me does hate to say it, just because it is. Hanging Lake gets so much hype and to the point where, you know, I mean, it's literally on the side of the interstate. But I would say it's probably the most beautiful trail in Colorado for one mile of hiking. Yeah. You know. It really packs it in, doesn't it? It really does. Yeah. So what else we got here?

[00:23:03] Kind of to jump off that, you talked to some people about some of these changes that are going on at the Maroon Bells. Mm-hmm. Proposed changes, I believe. Mm-hmm.

[00:23:31] So they implemented this pay-to-play system where now you have to do the, you have to make a reservation, you have to pay $12. Mm-hmm. And it really controls how many people are able to visit that, while it also provides more direct funding for taking care of it. Mm-hmm. Those are kind of the two benefits that were billed under this program. You've got some news about the Maroon Bells. Yeah. It might be related. Yeah. For sure. Definitely related.

[00:23:57] And the same National Forest, you know, managed by White River National Forest, Maroon Bells and Hanging Lake. And yeah, maybe people heard about this proposal where Picking County would kind of start picking up the day-to-day at Maroon Bells, managing that day-to-day. There has been in place a reservation system for people to park themselves. Mm-hmm. More popularly, people are getting on a shuttle there, right, paying for a shuttle ride into Maroon Bells.

[00:24:25] And I recently learned, like, the Forest Service reports operating on a deficit under that arrangement currently. I think the numbers shake out to what I was told from the Forest Service. Annual costs to manage Maroon Bells, staffing, maintenance. People forget there's infrastructure there, like bathrooms, water, electricity. Again, largely staffing, right? Mm-hmm. And those annual costs amount to around $600,000.

[00:24:52] And the revenues from the arrangement, as it's been now, are coming in around $220,000. Mm-hmm. So, and then taking other Forest Service funds to fill that gap, right? Mm-hmm. Funds that, as it's well known, have been increasingly stretched over the years. Mm-hmm. So, hence this idea to essentially lease things out to Pickin County, right? We've seen these arrangements elsewhere, even on Quandary, right?

[00:25:18] The reservation system on Quandary is essentially leased out, that shuttle system, reservation system, to the local governments there in Summit County to manage that day-to-day. Similarly, it would be kind of a similar thing for Maroon Bells, where the county would be doing that day-to-day. And, you know, I'm told, like, yeah, from its face, you wouldn't see much of a change, you know, except it sounds like there will be a price increase. Mm-hmm.

[00:25:46] You know, alluding back to the deficit that the Forest Service has worked on. You know, I talked to a person in charge at Pickin County who said, you know, these things are supposed to operate as a self-funding enterprise, right? Mm-hmm. That's the expectation. That's the only way it would make sense for us to do that. So, it would only seem reasonable, sensible in their minds to raise that price. What that looks like, those specifics aren't known yet. Sounds like it's going to be kind of a public process that'll play out with the proposals there.

[00:26:16] But, yeah, it does go back to kind of this concept that you and I have talked about, like, the way our federal lands are getting managed and kind of some of these trends around counting on local partners to do some of this management. You know, some of that has to do with the Forest Service being constrained in how they can raise prices. You know, there's a process to that.

[00:26:43] There's a federal process to doing that where counties and concessionaires can kind of more quickly make those decisions to make funding more available, right? Do you know when they last raised prices? At Maroon Bells? Yeah. Man, I don't know. I don't know if they ever did. I don't know. Because the shuttles go back to, like, the 70s, right? Mm-hmm. I didn't realize it goes back that far. Yeah. And I think it's, like, right now, like, is it $16 for an adult to ride? Something like that.

[00:27:13] And it's, like, $10 to park if you're able to get one of those very limited parking reservations? Parking reservations, yeah. Something like that. Yeah, I was seeing – I read the Aspen Times report on this, too. I was seeing that staffing is another aspect where it's difficult for them to find staff. And a place with high living costs. Mm-hmm. A place with high living costs. And if you're, you know, you're dealing with this deficit, you can't really be paying that much, you know? Or at least not increasing wages as much as you'd probably like to. Right.

[00:27:43] So that was a major concern where just they've been understaffed just because it's been so difficult for so many years to hire an adequate number of people to work that land. Right. Yeah. Yeah, so I think it's something we'll hear more about in the coming weeks and months. But, yeah, it just kind of continues – I guess we keep calling it a trend. It's really – the format's nothing new.

[00:28:05] You know, the Forest Service has counted on local governments or, in some cases, you know, concessionaires to kind of manage these really busy recreation areas. But it definitely does seem to be more of a trend in this era of declining budgets and expectations with fire mitigation. You know, the heavy expectations related to that for the Forest Service. Again, in the White River National Forest alone, Hain Lake is an example there. Quandary Peak is an example there.

[00:28:34] Also in White River, it sounds like this summer or fall, you're going to hear more about Sweetwater Lake where the Forest Service is looking to Colorado Parks and Wildlife to do the day-to-day there. Interesting. In our backyard, Pike National Forest. There's a lot of proposals for CPW to start doing more of the day-to-day in some busy recreation areas in Pike National Forest. That concept's very early days. What that could look like, we're not entirely sure, but that's definitely getting floated.

[00:29:01] So, yeah, just that kind of management now coming to the iconic Maroon Bells. Yeah, people tend to, you know, everyone wants everything to always be free. But hearing you talk about the deficit, it definitely, you know, it definitely makes me more aware of all the costs that go into that too. You know, it's like you are having to pay for increasing costs of fire mitigation, increasing costs of, you know, gas for the vehicles you're using. Increasing costs of everything, increasing salaries. Trail maintenance.

[00:29:31] Yeah, increasing wages. Electricity, water. Yeah. Running water to those bathrooms. Yeah. I mean, when you start looking at it that way, it's like, it's easier to maybe swallow increasing prices for using these lands. Yeah. I would say. Yeah. It's just not as simple as, you know, there's a nostalgic mind that would say, just leave it open. These are public lands. Right? Right. But we've seen the costs of that, the environmental costs of that to some of these places.

[00:29:57] So as much as people hate to see fees and prices associated with these places, you know, there's a cost to upkeep for sure. I think the wildfire thing is something that will resonate with a lot of Coloradans. Because everyone is aware of wildfire danger and wildfire risk. People tend to take that pretty seriously around here. So that alone, you know, I think people can use that to justify some of these prices.

[00:30:26] You mentioned Pikes Peak, and you've got some news about Pikes Peak. Something you've covered quite a bit over the years. Every year. Every year we talk about it. Yeah. Tell us about that. Yeah. And every year I cover it, I mention it, because I think it's really a beautiful area that not a lot of people get to. And that's the Pikes Peak South Slope Recreation Area. Maybe people know about the North Slope Recreation Area, which is defined by the reservoirs off Pikes Peak Highway, north and south.

[00:30:56] Catamount Reservoir being, reservoirs being a couple of those. But man, back in the South Slope Recreation Area, you got to want to go there. It's highly regulated. Highly protected. In an arrangement that's been in place for like 10 years now, where people got to book a permit. You can only go Thursday through Sundays. There's certain times with the gate when that gate opens. People got to be aware of some information on that. But 7.30 to like 3 or something like that on those days.

[00:31:24] And yeah, the waters back in there are really beautiful. And well known among serious anglers. Like people who fish definitely know about it. That's been most of the people who venture back there. We're talking, I say venture because yeah, it's back there, man. Like off rugged roads closer to like Victor. I think that area. You know, Colorado Springs, you're talking like an hour and a half drive, I think. So it's back there. But if you put the work into it, it's really awesome to see.

[00:31:53] There's a trail that goes to the top of, I think it's called Beamer Reservoir. It's like above, it's like around 11,000 feet, I want to say. Dang. Trail open to the top later in July after a wildlife closure. But that's really, if you've got the know-how and the fitness, you know, that's something for the list, I would say. Nine miles out in bag, I think something like that. South Slope Recreation. It's a big day.

[00:32:22] But yeah, it's just beautiful. It's just a lesser known swath of Pikes Peak that I don't think people talk about all that much. Probably less crowded too. Big time. Yeah. Big time. That has some appeal these days, I would say, for sure. Yeah. Especially on a mountain like that where it's such a, you know, commercialized mountain. It's probably, there's a highway that goes to the top. There's a train that goes to the top. There's two trails that go to the top. Yeah. And then here's this little spot just hiding there on the South Slope. Kind of this wild swath back there.

[00:32:48] I think coloradosprings.gov slash South Slope is the website there. Yeah, that's what I'm looking at right now. Definitely consult that. I mean, first and foremost, that's where you got to get a permit. But again, there's some important information to know, especially if you're going to be hiking some of that, some of those trails back in there. Cool stuff. Yeah. You want to get into these Telluride tensions real quick? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Fill us in on that.

[00:33:13] And Telluride famously, this last winter season, right, to kind of maybe provide a little bit of context, they had a ski patrol strike that took place from December 27th through January 8th. So right over some of their, a busy chunk of the year for them. And where the resort was essentially shut down at first to skiing and snowboarding. Eventually they got a couple runs open. And that was ultimately lifted with some sort of an agreement, which I haven't even seen the results of what that agreement was.

[00:33:43] I think it's pretty under wraps. But yeah, so that kind of sets the tone where there is this sort of tension in the town between Telluride Ski Resort and the town of Telluride. And there have since been a few other chapters in that saga, we'll say. Had some town officials stepping down for various reasons. Well said. Yeah. But yeah. There's chapters. Yeah. There's been a few moments along the way.

[00:34:11] In this past winter, the ski patrol strike and that delayed opening was probably the most public chapter of these tensions that have existed between, like you say, locals in Telluride and the California-based ownership.

[00:34:29] And I kind of get a sense of those tensions kind of lingering into some of the responses I read to these proposed upgrades that the Forest Service is currently reviewing and collecting public input, you know, as part of that process. Some of these upgrades are replacing a couple of lifts, you know, circulation improvements that you kind of expect in proposals like these, you know, having to do with some trail widening, having to do some new trail construction for, you know, better circulation.

[00:34:58] Mm-hmm. Um, but the response to that, um, is, is, is feeling pretty mixed early on here. Um, you've definitely got folks chiming in saying, you know, we need this modernization. Let's go. Um, the town of Mountain Village, right, right there at Telluride, right there at the resort, um, sounds to be in full support of this with some careful planning and thought to it.

[00:35:24] And yeah, you're kind of seeing that emphasized, uh, by other local governments, the town of Telluride, um, seeing some issues with, uh, some specifics being needed, uh, and the county commissioners there chiming in with environmental concerns along sharing those concerns with environmental groups. Um, kind of based on this concept of the warming hut, uh, I got to double check the name of this. Yeah.

[00:35:54] High camp, high camp warming hut. Um, there's a proposal to transform that into a full service restaurant. Um, there was a similar, my understanding is a similar proposal kind of going back to the nineties that merited a lawsuit regarding some environmental concerns with that and infrastructure that would have to be needed for a development like that. That, that seems to all be coming back to the surface, uh, with this proposal. There was a settlement, uh, seemingly aimed at blocking that development.

[00:36:22] Um, there's some interesting language from the forest service here about, um, that settlement not being related to proposals in more recent years for this concept. So environmental groups, definitely taking aim at that, definitely taking aim at this, um, proposal for tethered logging when it comes to, um, harvesting trees, you know, for clearing trees that might be typically done by a helicopter.

[00:36:48] There's this proposal for machine and cable that some people have concerns about. Um, and, and just overall, like, yeah, you just kind of get a sense of some lingering tensions about, um, uh, management at the resort and consideration that needs to be taken at a resort that some people see as not taken in the past.

[00:37:12] So, so yeah, another thing I'm following, another thing that kind of caught my eye amid this saga at one of our most iconic ski resorts for sure. And in Colorado. And probably one of the parts of Colorado where the livelihood of the town in the winter is so directly tied to the ski resort itself. Um, it's, it's, you know, it's a very remote town. It's probably not going to get that much through traffic at the ski resort.

[00:37:37] It's not, you know, operating or so I can, that, that's something I think that people tend to overlook with Telluride is because, I mean, in the winter there, there's other stuff to do. Yeah. But I mean, the ski resort is what brings people in. Yeah, for sure. And even in the summer, you know, yeah, we can, we can flash forward to the, uh, the bike park, you know, it was announced that construction, ongoing construction this summer was going to close the bike park and Telluride. Right. Yeah.

[00:38:02] And, uh, it's clear from that, that come, that came up and just responses to these fairly unrelated proposals. There's a proposal for a bike trail, but county commissioners took the time as part of their feedback to say, Hey, essentially like, by the way, uh, we're not okay with these trail closures in this impacts our economy big time, our tourism economy.

[00:38:22] So yeah, to your point about how a town in a local economy is, um, directly linked to this resort and how this resort operates, you know, this situation in Telluride really kind of, I think highlights that importance. And also some of the tension that can grow around that. Yeah. And I should say like some of those environmental concerns, um, regarding wetlands, regarding Canada links. Right.

[00:38:50] Um, and how some of these proposals could impact that habitat. People see issues there, you know? So just a little more specific on that. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Um, let's end the, let's end the show today with kind of a fun topic. Yeah. Uh, this question kind of came to me over the weekend and I was, I was really wanting to ask you this. Um, what do you think Colorado does better than anywhere else in the United States?

[00:39:20] Mountains. Mountains. I mean, it obviously comes to mountains, man. Other states do mountains, right? You've got California. These Rockies are great. It is. I mean. The accessibility. The accessibility is a big thing because I think other states have great mountains, right? Like you got, you got California and all of its 14 years. You got like Washington, you got, um, just mountains. I mean, anywhere you go in the West, you can find a pretty mountain, but the accessibility is the big thing for me, I think. And the sheer number. Mm-hmm.

[00:39:51] 54 14 years. What do we call it? 58 14 years. 58 is what I would say. You can pretty much hike up all of them. Yeah. It's like, you know, using that as an example, like pretty much maintain trails to the top of, you know, what? 50 of them. Mm-hmm. And then a few that are just too rugged to have like a true trail that go to the top. Um, that's not the case in California with their 14 years. There's our remote, um, you're often having to do a lot of route finding to get to the top of those.

[00:40:18] Uh, so I mean, yeah, the accessibility aspect of nature, definitely think that's up there. Mm-hmm. How about hot springs? Nice. Colorado's got a lot of hot springs, probably 20 something different hot springs all within a couple hours of each other. If you're just driving on a little road trip around the state. Mm-hmm. So I think hot springs might be another one where maybe it's not the best hot spring you've ever been to before, but in terms of just the sheer availability of hot springs and the sheer number of hot springs, I think hot springs are something that Colorado does better than anywhere else.

[00:40:47] In line with that, like luxury and rugged, the interface of that, you know, I feel like it's pretty unique in this state. Yeah. Yeah. I would say, I would say that's the case too. Um, also, I mean, obviously I mentioned skiing, that's people would be mad if we didn't say skiing. No doubt. Um, Colorado has more ski resorts, I believe, than any other state, at least at the scale, at the size that they do. Yeah.

[00:41:11] Um, again, maybe it's not the best skiing, maybe it's not your favorite ski resort, but the fact that you can essentially hit what, 10 different ski resorts off of I-70 as you're going, going down or, you know, off plus a little bit of a drive of I-70. That's pretty good. I mean, the biggest industry name that is Vail is here in Colorado. Yeah, exactly. Enough said, right? Yeah. And say what you want about Vail, but their ski resorts are awesome terrain, right? Yeah, they set the standard in the industry. Mm-hmm. Um, breweries too. You mentioned that. Craft beer.

[00:41:40] Yeah, we were chatting about this a little bit. Craft beer. Mm-hmm. Um, I think that's another good one. Again, maybe not, maybe not your favorite beer, but in terms of just the sheer availability of craft breweries. I got one. There you go. Uh, hoodie fashion. Hoodie fashion? I'm looking at you, Melanzana. Yep. You don't see these Melanzanas en masse everywhere like you do here. Yeah. We do that really well. We do some singed hoodies around here. You know?

[00:42:07] Well, and even just, even just like casual luxury fashion will say where you got, you know, it's like someone's walking down and then walking down the street in an Arcteric's jacket that might cost five or six hundred dollars. But it's just like a ski jacket that you're looking at, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. You don't see the suits and the fine dresses when you're in the mountain towns, you know? You see these, a wardrobe that still might be $2,000 worth of clothing. Yeah. But they look like they're ready to hit the slopes, you know? Yeah. Yep. Here's a controversial one.

[00:42:37] Does Colorado do fall better than any other state? That's a very- Does Colorado do autumn better than any other state? That's a very controversial one. It's a hot take. Yeah. East Coast people would definitely say no, I would think, but- They have a good argument. I think the fall, the Aspens in Colorado, right? If you're in the right spot at the right time, and it's important to find the right spot at the right time to really get that full Aspen view, it's up there.

[00:43:02] And what the East Coast doesn't have is the backdrop of a snow-capped peak behind that blaze of gold, man. Yeah. That's awesome. Or the chance for snow on the ground with that yellow and that contrast. What about scenic drives? Yeah. If you're looking at mountainous places, maybe. I mean, Highway 1 in California, right along the coast, that's got to be up there in the best scenic drives on the planet. But as far as mountain scenic drives go, it's probably a good one. Mm-hmm. Green chili.

[00:43:32] Green chili. Gonna make some people mad with that one. Them are fighting words, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but that being said, the slopper, right? We've talked about the slopper many times, and I don't order it much because it is very messy, but it is very good. Yeah. Key component being the green chili, right? Yeah. Colorado puts on some good festivals. Also true. Party state. Also true. Festival state. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We got a... I mean, even just looking at the dead guy days, right?

[00:44:02] We raise coffins. We raise coffins around here. Yeah. In Colorado. Also, and just Telluride, we were talking about that a few weeks ago. Yep. Just a string of, what, 20 different festivals that take place over the summer. We celebrate a headless chicken in Colorado. That is true. Mike. Rest in peace, Mike. Yeah. Mike the headless chicken. You are remembered every year. Yeah. We haven't talked about Mike in a while. Yeah. Fruita, right? Is it fruta? Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one too. What else we got? Wildlife. Yeah. I mean, that's a good...

[00:44:29] I mean, wildlife, I guess you're kind of competing with the rest of the Rockies, right? You got Montana's wildlife. Like that's probably where I would say has the best wildlife in the country. But Colorado's up there, I would say. Yeah. You know, in line with the fall take, like I think a better take is maybe just seasons. Yeah. Colorado does seasons great, man. Yeah. You know, I guess I've always felt like the summers are not too terribly hot. You know, having lived elsewhere in the state where I would call summers terribly hot. Right? Yeah.

[00:44:59] The falls are just tremendous. Yeah. And the winters, at least on the front range, if you're in the cities like we are, are never all that brutal. Mm-hmm. You know? Again, compared to other parts of the state. You got to love... The country that I've been in. Yeah. You also got to love the first fake spring and the second fake spring and the third fake spring. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. Seasons. That's a good one. Yeah. That's a very good one. Yeah. And not just that we have seasons, but that there's different things you can do in each season.

[00:45:28] So like, you know, Indiana, where I'm from, has seasons. But the seasons don't mean much aside from that the weather's different. In Colorado, you got your activities that correlate with each of those seasons, whether it's skiing in the winter, going on wildflower hikes, leaf peeping in the fall, right?

[00:46:00] Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. But yeah, cool stuff. I think that's a good list. There's going to be more that come to mind, but I count on our dear listeners to comment and fill it up. Sure. I'll be curious to hear what they have to say about the fall colors. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I picked some controversial ones for a reason. Get people talking. Yeah. Colorado... That's why we do this, right? Colorado is pretty great, though. Yeah. Yes. It's all around great. Got to remember that. It's all around great. It does everything better. Yeah. All right.

[00:46:29] Well, I think that's about all we got for today. So yeah, until next time, I'm Spencer. I'm Seth. And we'll see you out there.