Colorado cannibal innocent?; Epic new venue; $5,000 fine for off-trail travel?; Everest rescue; & More...

[00:00:00] Welcome to the OutThere Colorado Podcast. I am Spencer McKee and today I'm here with Seth Boster.

[00:00:07] Hey gang, good to be here.

[00:00:09] Seth is a features writer for the Colorado Springs Gazette, covers a ton of outdoor recreation content all around the state. Extremely knowledgeable in that and also covers some more interesting topics as we'll be chatting about.

[00:00:21] For sure.

[00:00:21] For sure.

[00:00:22] Dude, Spence, we've done these short Instagram clips and I've seen a few comments here and there saying, where's your guys' podcast?

[00:00:30] Well, here it is.

[00:00:31] So be careful what you ask for, people.

[00:00:34] Yeah, definitely if you've been following us on Instagram, you'll recognize Seth. He's in a ton of our clips.

[00:00:42] And yeah, now we're bringing it to a full-length podcast format by popular demand, so to speak.

[00:00:49] Here goes nothing.

[00:00:50] You gotta see what Seth sounds like. Unedited. Uncut.

[00:00:54] Unhinged.

[00:00:55] How much he chuckles in the background throughout the...

[00:00:57] Yeah.

[00:00:58] But now they don't have to see my hairy face.

[00:01:01] I don't know, I think that's honestly one of the reasons the videos are so popular.

[00:01:05] People can't help but stop. What is this monstrosity?

[00:01:08] It is that Colorado vibe that you have, you know?

[00:01:10] Yeah.

[00:01:11] It's like, I'm always, we always joke, I'm like the pretend Colorado vibe where I just throw on like the cliche flannel and like a trucker hat.

[00:01:18] And Seth's like the actual Colorado vibe.

[00:01:20] I don't know, man.

[00:01:22] Do you drive a Subaru?

[00:01:23] No, a Jeep, which is kind of Colorado-esque. What do you drive?

[00:01:27] I do drive a Subaru.

[00:01:28] Ah, see?

[00:01:29] So I'm maintaining the cliche.

[00:01:31] Yeah, see, that's pretty Colorado-y there, Seth.

[00:01:34] Yeah, first topic today though.

[00:01:37] I recently went to a heavy metal concert at Ford Amphitheater.

[00:01:43] Ooh, yeah.

[00:01:44] Yeah, it was Godsmack, which I...

[00:01:48] No way.

[00:01:48] Yeah, I haven't even thought of Godsmack for, you know, 15 years or so.

[00:01:53] Um, knew a couple of their songs.

[00:01:55] Uh, but yeah, had an absolutely great time.

[00:01:58] Uh, was absolutely blown away by Ford Amphitheater.

[00:02:01] It's, I think, about 8,000 seats.

[00:02:04] Uh, northern side of Colorado Springs just opened up.

[00:02:08] And to be honest, um, I mean, they nail it on so many regards.

[00:02:12] Experience starts out, we have four people in the car.

[00:02:14] We get, essentially, VIP access for free to just like, up, up front parking just because

[00:02:20] we were carpooling.

[00:02:21] Um, so that was great.

[00:02:23] You go in and all the beer, all the restrooms, all the food, it's all like right there to where

[00:02:28] you don't even really have to leave the show.

[00:02:31] Uh, and all very quick.

[00:02:32] Um, this show wasn't totally sold out, but it was pretty crowded and no lines.

[00:02:37] Uh, it was, it was awesome.

[00:02:39] Like anytime you got it from the seat, uh, took five minutes to get back to your seat.

[00:02:43] And the whole time you can enjoy what's going on on stage.

[00:02:45] Uh, one other thing that I really loved was that all the rows we were in.

[00:02:49] Um, and we also, because this show wasn't, uh, sold out, we kind of got bumped up from

[00:02:54] lawn tickets to that first, uh, or that back row of seating or back area of seating.

[00:03:01] And the rows were amazing.

[00:03:03] Like people could move around without having everyone else get up whenever you have to

[00:03:08] like leave.

[00:03:09] For sure.

[00:03:09] And I was at a show last night at another local venue, uh, not going to throw them under

[00:03:13] the bus, but just how tight those rows are.

[00:03:17] It was just like, you're almost at risk of falling down multiple rows just by trying to

[00:03:22] like, well, even like Fiddler's green has gotten real tight.

[00:03:25] Yeah.

[00:03:25] Yeah.

[00:03:26] And I mean, that's one of those things where it's like, that is just so disruptive to the

[00:03:29] show.

[00:03:29] So was really excited just to see that they, you know, took that user experience, so to

[00:03:35] speak into mind and made it so you can get up from your seat and walk around without it

[00:03:40] being a huge, huge issue for everyone else.

[00:03:43] Uh, also the really cool thing, those fire pits.

[00:03:45] Have you been there yet?

[00:03:46] I haven't.

[00:03:47] So man, I really wanted to get to cage the elephant.

[00:03:50] Oh yeah.

[00:03:50] That would've been a great Thursday night.

[00:03:52] Yeah.

[00:03:53] So I'm still waiting to break into Ford amphitheater.

[00:03:57] I'm looking up, I guess they're still getting stuff scheduled for next year, but weird out

[00:04:01] is on tap.

[00:04:02] Weird out is on tap.

[00:04:04] For next September it looks like.

[00:04:05] Well, and I have, I have no doubt that they'll be able to bring in some huge acts.

[00:04:11] Just, I mean, what I was about to say there too.

[00:04:13] One thing I really liked, do you see the photos of Ford amphitheater?

[00:04:16] It has all those fire pits, you know, like little like fire rings and premium seating.

[00:04:20] It's kind of like halfway up, uh, in the seating area.

[00:04:24] Um, but these fire rings during the show, uh, right.

[00:04:27] It's almost like a lawn furniture set up in a sense, like where it's like these like lounging

[00:04:32] areas around these fire pits.

[00:04:34] Uh, during the show though, those fire pits are lighting up and it just adds such a cool

[00:04:38] dynamic.

[00:04:39] Cool like vibe.

[00:04:39] Yeah.

[00:04:40] And I can imagine like, you know, touring acts that are wanting to like film something

[00:04:44] there or touring acts just even just looking up from the stage at every act that night

[00:04:49] mentioned how cool the fire pits looked like, and just that mountain backdrop.

[00:04:54] Um, from that back row, you can just see the, even under the cover at night, right.

[00:04:58] You could just see the outline of the mountains and just absolutely beautiful venue.

[00:05:03] That's a great spot.

[00:05:04] Um, do you see people getting s'mores out on those fires?

[00:05:08] Is that feasible?

[00:05:08] Oh, I, I don't know.

[00:05:09] You know, they, I don't even know.

[00:05:11] They might offer s'mores packages.

[00:05:13] I mean, you didn't see any though.

[00:05:15] I don't know.

[00:05:16] I wasn't, I wasn't that close to them.

[00:05:18] We were kind of up in the back, but I was thinking about making some s'mores over my stove

[00:05:21] the other day.

[00:05:22] Yeah.

[00:05:22] That's a good idea.

[00:05:23] Maybe, maybe have to do that.

[00:05:26] Uh, uh, and just like that area is just, there's so much going on in there.

[00:05:30] Oh yeah.

[00:05:30] Have you ever eaten at bourbon brothers?

[00:05:32] Yeah.

[00:05:32] It's good.

[00:05:33] Good.

[00:05:33] Yeah.

[00:05:33] Yeah.

[00:05:34] Pretty good.

[00:05:35] Um, top golf is over generally around there.

[00:05:38] I really love, they have that fast.

[00:05:40] Uh, I think it's fast times go karts.

[00:05:42] Don't.

[00:05:42] Okay.

[00:05:43] Yeah.

[00:05:43] Yeah.

[00:05:43] I was wrong on that one, but there's a place up there and that is super fun.

[00:05:48] The, uh, skydiving.

[00:05:49] Indoor skydiving.

[00:05:50] Yeah.

[00:05:50] Also I've heard really great things about that.

[00:05:53] Uh, there's a little shooting range up there too.

[00:05:56] A little tap house.

[00:05:57] A little tap house.

[00:05:58] I can't remember.

[00:05:59] Yeah.

[00:06:00] That looks good though.

[00:06:01] They're also adding this like indoor, uh, water situation.

[00:06:05] Oh really?

[00:06:05] It's not really like a water park.

[00:06:06] I think it's like a wave so you can go and surf.

[00:06:09] Really?

[00:06:09] Yeah.

[00:06:09] And it's supposed to have a bar and stuff.

[00:06:12] I heard, I heard about that.

[00:06:13] I don't know if it's actually come to fruition.

[00:06:14] It was probably like a year ago.

[00:06:15] There's the great wolf, uh, lodges water park.

[00:06:19] Yeah.

[00:06:19] And that's right up there too.

[00:06:20] Yeah.

[00:06:20] Yeah.

[00:06:21] Good things about that.

[00:06:23] Shields.

[00:06:24] Yeah.

[00:06:24] Shields is up there.

[00:06:25] Bass pro shop, right?

[00:06:26] That's up there too.

[00:06:27] I just got one of those, uh, plug in puras at Shields.

[00:06:30] That was my latest Shields purchase.

[00:06:32] You know, those trendy, uh, good smelling things that you plug in.

[00:06:36] Yeah.

[00:06:37] Nice.

[00:06:37] How's it, how's it working for you?

[00:06:38] Um, it depends on what I'm cooking that night.

[00:06:41] There we go.

[00:06:42] Yeah.

[00:06:43] That whole, that whole Northern part of Colorado Springs though, is really just popping off

[00:06:47] and just becoming like this, like dream for a bachelor party in a sense where like,

[00:06:52] interesting.

[00:06:53] Like you could just literally go do go carts, top golf, uh, hit the shooting range, uh, hit

[00:06:58] bourbon brothers, get your beers up there.

[00:07:00] Right.

[00:07:01] There's concerts there too.

[00:07:02] Um, that's so true.

[00:07:04] Um, there's literally just whatever you want up there.

[00:07:07] Bachelor central.

[00:07:08] Yeah.

[00:07:08] Right.

[00:07:09] That's a, I hadn't thought of that.

[00:07:10] Yeah.

[00:07:10] We had a little bachelor party up there a year or so ago.

[00:07:13] Oh, did you?

[00:07:13] Yeah.

[00:07:14] Uh, yeah.

[00:07:14] And I mean, we did, uh, we started it off with paintball and quickly learned that paintball

[00:07:18] is a young man's game.

[00:07:20] Uh, got our, got our butt kicked by a bunch of 15 year olds.

[00:07:24] Oh yeah.

[00:07:25] It was, it was brutal.

[00:07:26] Um, and then we went and we did go carts and then top golf and all of us were absolutely

[00:07:31] beaten up and sore by the end of the day, but it was a great day, which is, yeah, that's,

[00:07:36] uh, there's a great generally around there inner quest that atmosphere gastro pub is super

[00:07:41] good.

[00:07:42] Oh really?

[00:07:43] I haven't been up there.

[00:07:43] Yeah.

[00:07:43] Put that on your list.

[00:07:44] Nice.

[00:07:45] Need to get up there.

[00:07:45] Yeah.

[00:07:46] Yeah.

[00:07:46] I don't go up North that much.

[00:07:47] Cause like I'm kind of West side Colorado Springs area closer to downtown, but yeah,

[00:07:53] if I am going up, I'm find myself going up to this little area.

[00:07:57] And that's also one of the things that, uh, I mean, obviously that's closer to Denver,

[00:08:02] right?

[00:08:02] So with this Ford amphitheater, um, and just how cool it is and how good that experience

[00:08:07] is, I would imagine a lot of these touring acts are going to start looking there.

[00:08:12] And at first you, you know, you hear the comparison between Red Rocks, right?

[00:08:17] Where it's like, it's impossible to beat Red Rocks.

[00:08:20] I think that's, that's the general idea there.

[00:08:24] And people were like, that's absolutely ridiculous to even think that this new amphitheater could

[00:08:28] even compete with Red Rocks.

[00:08:30] One of a kind.

[00:08:30] Yeah.

[00:08:31] But to be honest, I mean, they're both great.

[00:08:34] Like if the band is playing at Red Rocks and a band is, and the same band is playing

[00:08:37] at Ford, like I'm not, I'm probably going to go to Ford.

[00:08:40] Just for your convenience.

[00:08:41] Just for my convenience.

[00:08:42] And, uh, same thing.

[00:08:43] Like I can see them start pulling a lot of people down from Castle Rock.

[00:08:47] I was going to say, Castle Rock.

[00:08:49] Yeah.

[00:08:49] Like all that.

[00:08:50] I was told over the weekend, I was in a wedding in Castle Rock and, uh, that like apartment,

[00:08:56] there's like an apartment complex, like taking a big chunk of around Castle Rock downtown.

[00:09:01] Apparently it's going to like double, like the occupancy of the downtown area of Castle

[00:09:06] Rock, like that apartment complex alone.

[00:09:08] Oh dang.

[00:09:09] I was just told that.

[00:09:09] Well, and Castle Rock's always been called like what the bedroom community, so to speak,

[00:09:14] where it's just like a commuting town for Denver.

[00:09:16] Right.

[00:09:17] Uh, in recent years though, they've really kind of broken away from that.

[00:09:19] I mean, they were recently called the best place to live in the state.

[00:09:23] I think I forget who said that.

[00:09:24] Oh really?

[00:09:24] Like it would, might've been U.S. News and World Report.

[00:09:27] Don't quote me on that.

[00:09:29] But, uh, yeah, they were recently called like the best place to live, uh, in the state.

[00:09:33] One of the safest places to live in the state.

[00:09:35] Um, yeah, there's lots of stuff to do around there.

[00:09:37] Yeah.

[00:09:38] I was hopping around Castle Rock for this wedding.

[00:09:40] Yeah.

[00:09:41] While doing that.

[00:09:42] Also I got that, that mini incline.

[00:09:43] I did a couple of laps on that.

[00:09:45] How was that?

[00:09:46] Did all right.

[00:09:47] It's like what?

[00:09:47] 300 steps or so?

[00:09:49] 500?

[00:09:50] I can't quite recall.

[00:09:51] I want to say it's 300 steps, but it's pretty short comparatively.

[00:09:54] Very.

[00:09:55] I mean, I got it done in, I don't know.

[00:09:57] I think it was like seven minutes.

[00:09:58] Yeah.

[00:09:58] Which is.

[00:09:59] And then just ran down.

[00:10:00] And then compared to the, the real incline.

[00:10:03] Yeah.

[00:10:04] Yeah.

[00:10:04] You have plenty of experience.

[00:10:05] I could ever get under 45.

[00:10:06] You still live in Man Two Springs.

[00:10:06] Yeah.

[00:10:07] You got plenty of experience on the real incline.

[00:10:08] I used to get obsessed trying to get 40 minutes and I couldn't hit 40 minutes.

[00:10:12] Well, gotta keep working at it, Seth.

[00:10:14] Maybe if I keep doing the mini one enough.

[00:10:17] Yeah.

[00:10:18] I've heard.

[00:10:19] I mean, that's a cool addition.

[00:10:20] And then there's one in Parker.

[00:10:21] You know, there's like a mini incline in Parker.

[00:10:23] Oh, is there?

[00:10:23] Yeah.

[00:10:24] I can't remember.

[00:10:25] And I think it's bigger than the one in Castle Rock.

[00:10:27] Nice.

[00:10:27] Yeah.

[00:10:27] I mean, it makes sense.

[00:10:28] Such a good workout.

[00:10:29] Like it's hard to beat the cardio workout you get with the incline.

[00:10:32] Yeah.

[00:10:32] I mean, all around.

[00:10:34] You're in fresh air.

[00:10:35] Yeah.

[00:10:35] Did you hear, uh, was there some confusion about people flying into Denver and proceeding

[00:10:42] to the Vale amphitheater in Vail?

[00:10:44] Oh, right.

[00:10:45] Yeah.

[00:10:45] Cause they have the Gerald Ford amphitheater in Vail, right?

[00:10:47] That was my first thought when they like, when the name came about for Ford amphitheater,

[00:10:52] I was like, wait, we've got two Ford amphitheaters now.

[00:10:54] Well, and it was previously called sunset amphitheater.

[00:10:57] And then Ford, the, the automotive company bought the rides.

[00:11:01] That's right.

[00:11:01] Um, yeah, no, I, that was something that did come up a lot.

[00:11:05] Um, also it was come up a lot as all the, apparently it's very loud, right?

[00:11:09] Yeah.

[00:11:09] You can go on Reddit and just Google like Ford amphitheater loud and read the comments

[00:11:15] of, uh, the surrounding, surrounding communities.

[00:11:17] That controversy continues.

[00:11:19] Yeah.

[00:11:19] That controversy continues.

[00:11:20] As I'm sure it did with, with fiddlers and red rocks in those earlier years.

[00:11:25] Yeah.

[00:11:25] I mean, it's a venue.

[00:11:26] It's going to be outdoor venues are going to be loud, but apparently though, I saw a

[00:11:30] report, I think from the Gazette that, uh, the Ford was within their, within their range

[00:11:37] where they had like said, this is where, how loud we're going to be.

[00:11:40] Apparently they were within that range.

[00:11:42] I think, um, which is interesting.

[00:11:44] I think Ford is still doing some more stuff though.

[00:11:46] To kind of mitigate.

[00:11:48] Yeah.

[00:11:48] To kind of mitigate that sound.

[00:11:49] I mean, some of the, some of the witness accounts, so to speak, or whatever you want

[00:11:53] to listen to accounts that I've heard, it's like two miles away on a good, on a certain

[00:11:58] Yeah.

[00:11:58] The conditions are right.

[00:12:00] You can hear the music from Ford Amplitude.

[00:12:02] I heard it.

[00:12:02] I heard a comment.

[00:12:03] Like I, we can't hear each other talk in our house.

[00:12:06] Yeah.

[00:12:06] That seems wild.

[00:12:07] Can you hear each other talk in the venue?

[00:12:10] Yeah.

[00:12:10] Yeah.

[00:12:11] We're talking.

[00:12:12] I had a feeling.

[00:12:13] I mean, I did put in earplugs, uh, just to protect my ears, you know?

[00:12:17] Yeah.

[00:12:17] As you would at like, like Mission Ballroom.

[00:12:20] Yeah.

[00:12:20] I love a show at Mission Ballroom by the way.

[00:12:22] Yeah.

[00:12:22] That's a good, good one too.

[00:12:24] Um, yeah.

[00:12:24] A gentleman who had driven down from Greeley.

[00:12:26] Really?

[00:12:27] The show also is kind of noteworthy.

[00:12:29] Like it's pulling people in from Greeley.

[00:12:30] Yeah.

[00:12:31] But yeah, he had a pack of earbuds and was like, you want some?

[00:12:33] And I was like, sure.

[00:12:34] And honestly, it sounded really nice with the earbuds, with the earbuds in.

[00:12:37] Yeah.

[00:12:37] Yeah.

[00:12:38] Um, maybe there was a little bit of, yeah, there's like a little bit of that, like noise

[00:12:42] or feedback, whatever you want to call it before that.

[00:12:44] But I mean, it is like a metal show, uh, which I'm not even really a, I don't listen

[00:12:49] to hard, hard rock.

[00:12:50] Are you a God smacker?

[00:12:52] No, not at all.

[00:12:53] Really?

[00:12:53] Not even back in the day.

[00:12:55] Uh, still had a great time though.

[00:12:56] They did put on a very good show.

[00:12:59] I heard cage the elephant did as well.

[00:13:01] Yeah.

[00:13:01] Yeah.

[00:13:02] I mean, it's the vibes in that.

[00:13:03] I mean, it's gotta be easier to put on.

[00:13:06] You got me excited, man.

[00:13:07] I'll get there one of these days.

[00:13:09] Yeah.

[00:13:09] I will be a, I will be a customer next season.

[00:13:12] I think it's closed out for the year, right?

[00:13:14] I think so.

[00:13:15] Yeah.

[00:13:15] I'm not, I just pulled up the calendar.

[00:13:17] I'm just seeing weird.

[00:13:19] Weird Al, uh, it's, it's, it's weird.

[00:13:23] Al's year.

[00:13:24] There we go.

[00:13:25] He's, he'll be at Red Rocks too.

[00:13:26] I think really.

[00:13:27] It was one of the first shows they announced there.

[00:13:29] Yeah.

[00:13:30] Um, gather, there were some other show at, uh, at Ford that I wanted to see this past

[00:13:35] season.

[00:13:36] Can't remember who it was.

[00:13:38] Well, they were jam jam band.

[00:13:39] Um, Oh, it wasn't like totally blanking.

[00:13:42] It wasn't slightly stupid.

[00:13:44] It was, uh, I remember it wasn't slightly stupid.

[00:13:48] It was very stupid.

[00:13:49] It wasn't sublime.

[00:13:50] Well, that would be cool.

[00:13:52] Yeah.

[00:13:52] They're still touring, but yeah, no, a lot of that.

[00:13:54] A lot of the classic rock acts we're going through there too.

[00:13:57] Right.

[00:13:57] Like, yeah.

[00:13:58] Uh, and I'll be curious, like, is this, you know, I don't know for as long as I've

[00:14:02] lived in Colorado Springs, you see a lot of, you see country, you see like your classic

[00:14:08] rock, like nostalgic kind of stuff.

[00:14:11] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:12] Are we going to see some modern acts start filling up the bills in this town?

[00:14:18] You know?

[00:14:19] Yeah.

[00:14:19] I would not be surprised at all.

[00:14:21] Yeah.

[00:14:22] I mean, it's just one of those things where even just from a logistic standpoint, I would

[00:14:26] imagine it's pretty easy to do a Denver show and a Colorado Springs show if you're, you've

[00:14:30] got a big enough audience.

[00:14:31] And especially with how big El Paso County is, right?

[00:14:33] It's the most populated county in Colorado.

[00:14:36] Mm-hmm.

[00:14:37] Um, so there's a lot of people here.

[00:14:38] You know, I've heard the Springs is like, there's like a history of like metal, you know?

[00:14:42] Like, yeah, it's like a metal town.

[00:14:44] Yeah.

[00:14:44] Yeah.

[00:14:45] I mean, hey, Black Sheep, right?

[00:14:46] Black Sheep, right?

[00:14:47] Right.

[00:14:47] I've loved every show I've gone to at Black Sheep.

[00:14:49] Yeah.

[00:14:50] It's much smaller than you, probably what, 300 people.

[00:14:52] I saw Brian Jonestown Massacre there.

[00:14:54] Oh, how was that?

[00:14:54] Super fun.

[00:14:55] Super fun.

[00:14:55] Yeah.

[00:14:56] Black Sheep just has that vibe that's, it makes it work.

[00:14:59] Yeah.

[00:14:59] Yeah.

[00:15:00] You gotta be cool with, you know, grunge.

[00:15:03] Gotta be, gotta be cool with grunge.

[00:15:05] They do have like-

[00:15:05] Can't be scared of seedy.

[00:15:06] Cheap 16 ounce PVRs during the shows.

[00:15:09] That's right.

[00:15:10] Uh, yeah, I'm a fan.

[00:15:12] Um, but yeah, I guess moving away from the show.

[00:15:14] Yeah.

[00:15:14] It's a little bit away from, uh, music.

[00:15:17] So, a few weeks ago on the podcast, uh, Sam and I chatted about Big Phil, the Colorado

[00:15:23] cannibal, who's the other Colorado cannibal, right?

[00:15:26] Uh huh.

[00:15:26] Um, doesn't get nearly as much coverage as Alfred Packer.

[00:15:30] Yeah.

[00:15:31] And Seth is working on a story about Alfred Packer and-

[00:15:34] I had no idea.

[00:15:35] And whether or not he may be innocent.

[00:15:39] Could the Colorado cannibal be innocent?

[00:15:41] All right.

[00:15:41] So what do you got?

[00:15:42] Let's, let's chat about that.

[00:15:43] So, I also learned about another-

[00:15:47] Have you heard the awful story of the, uh, the blue brothers?

[00:15:51] Uh uh.

[00:15:52] Decades earlier.

[00:15:53] Uh uh.

[00:15:53] These brothers from Illinois, I think there was three of them, who came out decades before

[00:16:00] Alfred Packer's episode in 1874.

[00:16:04] Decades before there were these brothers that came out on the planes from Illinois.

[00:16:08] And they got in a bad situation.

[00:16:10] And there's apparently documentation of, you know, one brother dying and saying, eat me

[00:16:17] to survive.

[00:16:18] Jeez.

[00:16:19] And then the next one.

[00:16:21] And then one survived, I guess.

[00:16:23] But anyway, this, this story, yeah, took me on that path of like, you know, this, this

[00:16:28] very clear history of cannibalism for survival in the world history of exploration, you know?

[00:16:34] Oh yeah.

[00:16:35] Yeah.

[00:16:35] That's scary, brutal nature.

[00:16:37] Yeah.

[00:16:37] In the San Juan Mountains, also decades before Packer, who was in the San Juan Mountains,

[00:16:43] John Fremont's, some of John Fremont's men reportedly ate each other to survive.

[00:16:47] Wow.

[00:16:48] Yeah.

[00:16:48] And what, is it always like the winter snowstorm?

[00:16:51] Is that kind of-

[00:16:51] For the Packer?

[00:16:52] Yeah.

[00:16:52] Yeah.

[00:16:53] For Packer's story.

[00:16:55] So that's all a little context to say, to be clear, cannibalism then and now is not

[00:17:02] a crime, right?

[00:17:03] Killing is a crime.

[00:17:05] If you kill someone and eat them, that is definitely a crime.

[00:17:08] If someone is dead and you ate them, that is not a crime.

[00:17:12] That's not, I feel like that's like desecration of a body or something, right?

[00:17:16] It is extremely taboo.

[00:17:17] I do, and I hope people listening to this are not eating while they're listening to this.

[00:17:22] But, so that's the big question with Packer.

[00:17:25] Did he kill these men?

[00:17:27] And he maintained that he killed one in self-defense.

[00:17:32] His confessions had varying degrees of consistency, which did not serve him well.

[00:17:40] He supposedly escaped from his first jail cell in Sawatch, where he turned up after the

[00:17:47] mountains.

[00:17:47] That raised some suspicions.

[00:17:49] But maybe we backtrack a little bit, right?

[00:17:52] Yeah, tell us the Packer story first.

[00:17:54] The Packer story, okay.

[00:17:55] And Google the laws about cannibalism in your state.

[00:17:59] Yeah, I'm telling you.

[00:18:00] Check with the media.

[00:18:01] We are not lawyers.

[00:18:01] That is the case.

[00:18:02] They could not convict him on cannibalism.

[00:18:06] They could convict him on murder, which they did.

[00:18:08] But, at least at one point they got overturned.

[00:18:12] But, to retrace here, Alfred Packer is with a group of five other guys in the snowy San Juan

[00:18:21] Mountains in 1874, 150 years ago.

[00:18:24] And what we know is things got bad, obviously.

[00:18:30] They get hungry.

[00:18:32] And what we know after that is that Alfred Packer shows up in Sawatch, around Sawatch,

[00:18:38] Colorado.

[00:18:39] And some of, coincidentally, some of-

[00:18:42] By himself.

[00:18:42] By himself.

[00:18:43] Yeah.

[00:18:43] He is the lone survivor for sure.

[00:18:46] And some of the larger group that he had been with, five of them, six of them, including

[00:18:50] Packer, had broken away from this larger group.

[00:18:52] By coincidence, some members of that original gold-seeking group, looking for gold, find

[00:18:59] him in Sawatch.

[00:19:01] And, reportedly, he tells them, Packer does, that he didn't know what happened to the other

[00:19:07] five guys.

[00:19:08] Also raising suspicions against Packer, of course.

[00:19:11] Right.

[00:19:12] Yeah.

[00:19:14] Things are said, more things are said, and a Harper's Weekly illustration comes out of

[00:19:21] the five bodies up there with missing flesh.

[00:19:26] And Packer, in his first confession, does indeed admit to eating these guys, saying the party,

[00:19:32] one naturally died after another, and that's how they would survive, eating the other guys.

[00:19:38] He goes on to say he killed one in self-defense.

[00:19:44] Again, the details of what he is saying become fairly inconsistent, but that much he maintained,

[00:19:53] that he just killed one in self-defense.

[00:19:56] Newspapers go crazy.

[00:19:57] What has to be said about the Alfred Packer situation is that it was a, it was a, quite the

[00:20:04] phenomenon, quite sensational.

[00:20:06] Once it got in the press, the press ran wild with it.

[00:20:10] And that's what a lot of historians go back to.

[00:20:14] Gosh, there's like a line of one chronicle of that day saying it was like, there's some written

[00:20:21] line about it being like the greatest onslaught of, in newspaper history in America.

[00:20:31] Right.

[00:20:32] So to be clear, Packer was guilty for sure before he stepped in the courtroom by the court

[00:20:38] of public opinion, right?

[00:20:40] Headlines everywhere were saying it was the most gruesome murder in American history.

[00:20:47] You know, I mean, it was a sensation for sure.

[00:20:51] But in the courtroom, he maintained that story that he did not, he, he, he just killed one

[00:20:56] in self-defense.

[00:20:57] Which would presumably be justifiable.

[00:21:00] Right.

[00:21:01] Right.

[00:21:02] And probably, I think it wasn't that dude about to kill him type of thing.

[00:21:05] That's what he, Shannon Bell.

[00:21:06] He said Shannon Bell was the one who went crazy and killed the other guys.

[00:21:10] That was one confession.

[00:21:11] He said Shannon Bell was the murderer.

[00:21:13] Right.

[00:21:13] Um, there's some modern forensics that came in 1989.

[00:21:18] I'll get to that.

[00:21:19] But just to be clear, he is convicted of murder, sentenced to hang.

[00:21:23] And, um, he's, his life is spared from some technicalities.

[00:21:28] His lawyers, along with the, uh, state Supreme Court, um, later said, yeah, he, he was, he

[00:21:35] was convicted on the laws of the state when these alleged acts occurred when the state

[00:21:41] was a territory.

[00:21:42] Right.

[00:21:42] So that's how he got off the hook.

[00:21:45] Uh, so that leads to another case that finds him guilty of manslaughter.

[00:21:49] And he goes to Canyon City for 40 years.

[00:21:53] That's the sentence.

[00:21:54] Dang.

[00:21:54] He gets out within 16 years of that sentence.

[00:21:58] A Denver Post reporter comes and, um, he gains her sympathies.

[00:22:03] And that really shifted some perceptions of him at that time, what she was writing.

[00:22:08] Um, even the warden, um, uh, wrote a letter of support granting an early release for him.

[00:22:16] Um, saying along the lines that he, he thought kind of the sentence was harsh and that the,

[00:22:23] um, the public expressions of that time, you know, were the things that made him guilty

[00:22:29] more or less.

[00:22:30] Um, he dies in 1907, makes like a final plea that he wants to be, you know, the, his, the

[00:22:38] opinion of him among fellow men to be clear or something along those lines, what he wrote.

[00:22:42] And that was, that will probably never be the case.

[00:22:46] 1989, uh, those bodies outside Lake City are exhumed and subject to modern forensics.

[00:22:55] Um, and the lead on that project in a pretty highly publicized proclamation says that there's

[00:23:06] murder.

[00:23:07] These bodies were murdered.

[00:23:09] Packer murdered them all.

[00:23:11] Critics maintained murder is apparent, but the murderer is not apparent.

[00:23:16] Right?

[00:23:16] Yeah.

[00:23:17] What was there any suggestion saying that Bell was the one who killed these guys?

[00:23:20] Like, like Packer said.

[00:23:22] Yeah.

[00:23:22] How would they be able to even?

[00:23:23] All they, all they found were a blunt force trauma that definitely was suggestive of, of

[00:23:29] murder.

[00:23:29] But again, is there anything saying who was the murder?

[00:23:33] Yeah.

[00:23:34] There's a book.

[00:23:35] If, uh, if you've got the stomach for this conversation, the stomach for more details,

[00:23:40] there's a great book from 2015 called Maneater where, um, a, um, a true crime historian and

[00:23:49] professor in New York really dove into this case of Packer.

[00:23:53] And he came out with this book in 2015 and probably went into the, the details more than

[00:23:59] anyone.

[00:23:59] After 1989, there was a project in the nineties.

[00:24:05] Um, a curator at a museum in Grand Junction came up with what was said to be, what was

[00:24:10] found to be Packer's pistol, the potential murder weapon.

[00:24:14] Oh wow.

[00:24:15] That years long investigation led to that researcher saying that Packer is innocent.

[00:24:21] Going back to the book, the 2015 book, again, this author seemingly dove into this stuff,

[00:24:28] maybe more than anyone up to date.

[00:24:30] His considered belief, as he put it, was that Packer killed all five of the guys.

[00:24:36] He goes on to say that should Packer have been found guilty of murder in what was a very high

[00:24:43] degree of reasonable doubt.

[00:24:46] This author says almost certainly not.

[00:24:48] He should not have been found guilty of murder.

[00:24:51] Dang.

[00:24:52] So all to the day, jury's still out.

[00:24:56] Yeah.

[00:24:57] That's, that's wild.

[00:24:58] It's very, it's kind of, maybe it's interesting.

[00:25:00] I think it's fascinating.

[00:25:02] Well, I mean, it makes, because of how we've come to see this guy.

[00:25:05] Right.

[00:25:05] I mean, he is, he is the greatest villain of Colorado history.

[00:25:09] Yeah.

[00:25:09] I mean, I think Matt Stone and Trey Parker, South Park, one of their first movies before

[00:25:15] South Park was about him, which is kind of interesting.

[00:25:17] That's right.

[00:25:17] I think called Cannibal and his musical.

[00:25:20] Mm hmm.

[00:25:21] There's the Packer dining hall or Alfred Packer dining hall in Boulder for the CU campus

[00:25:29] there.

[00:25:30] Right.

[00:25:31] Yeah.

[00:25:32] He is kind of one of those like, he's just kind of an anti-folk.

[00:25:35] Yeah.

[00:25:35] Yeah.

[00:25:37] And very representative of that time of the West where, you know, we needed, we needed

[00:25:44] stories.

[00:25:44] Yeah.

[00:25:45] We needed heroes.

[00:25:46] We needed villains.

[00:25:47] Yeah.

[00:25:47] And I don't think anyone is saying this guy is a hero.

[00:25:52] Most certainly not.

[00:25:54] There's a lot of his reputation painting him out to be not so good of a guy, but is he a

[00:25:59] villain?

[00:26:00] Is he a murderer?

[00:26:01] Well, we don't know.

[00:26:02] Yeah.

[00:26:02] And that's the thing.

[00:26:03] It's like, let's, let's pretend that it was totally self-defense right now.

[00:26:07] And it's 100% self-defense situation.

[00:26:10] Imagine what that must've been like to be like in this awful situation thinking you were

[00:26:14] going to die just from this blizzard alone.

[00:26:16] Yeah.

[00:26:16] Having to eat other humans, which is probably, I would, I would, I can say it'd be a hundred

[00:26:22] percent disturbing.

[00:26:23] Yeah.

[00:26:23] I would imagine, you know, it's like, even if it is more common back in the wild west

[00:26:27] days, like still, I'm sure a very disturbing situation.

[00:26:31] Yeah.

[00:26:31] Yeah.

[00:26:32] And then he, and then he fights for his life against someone who he was presumably traveling

[00:26:36] with, like must've been at least to some degree, like familiar with this person, a friend maybe.

[00:26:42] Yeah.

[00:26:43] Um, and has to defend his own life against this person comes back, gets chastised by the public

[00:26:48] court, so to speak.

[00:26:49] Yeah.

[00:26:50] And forever his legacy is that he's a cannibal.

[00:26:54] Yeah.

[00:26:54] That's yeah, that is, it's kind of a sad story in that regard.

[00:26:58] It's kind of interesting.

[00:26:59] If he is indeed innocent, right?

[00:27:01] Yeah.

[00:27:02] He, um, I mean, yeah, like, I mean, it's a clear story of in those early days when these

[00:27:10] men were coming to these mountains, having no idea what these mountains were, they were quickly

[00:27:14] thrown into survival situations.

[00:27:17] And it's greed led them to survival situations that we can't possibly comprehend.

[00:27:24] Yeah.

[00:27:24] That is a wild way to think about it too.

[00:27:26] Just how much you're risking for your little chance of gold.

[00:27:29] Right.

[00:27:30] You know, it's like, right.

[00:27:31] Very few people in modern America are really risking their life to the point where it's

[00:27:37] like, they've got a very good chance of dying just to make a little bit of cash.

[00:27:41] Yeah.

[00:27:41] And he's very representative of, you know, came from Pennsylvania.

[00:27:44] Um, evidently wanted to fight for the union cause during the civil war was discharged for

[00:27:52] his epilepsy, right?

[00:27:53] These seizures became very much a part of his public persona that would be painted of him

[00:27:58] in the West.

[00:27:59] Dang.

[00:28:00] Um, along with, uh, his squeaky voice.

[00:28:05] Uh, some thought he was quite intelligent.

[00:28:09] Many others thought he was very dastardly.

[00:28:13] I think there was one of his companions early on who said he was a man of like no character.

[00:28:18] Yeah.

[00:28:19] Yeah.

[00:28:19] Yeah.

[00:28:20] I mean his, that's all to say, I mean, who he was.

[00:28:23] I mean, we just, there's so much of that character that is just very clearly unclear only that he's,

[00:28:32] he's a monster.

[00:28:33] Right.

[00:28:33] Wow.

[00:28:34] According to our lore.

[00:28:37] That is wild.

[00:28:38] And I mean, and that's, yeah, I mean, I keep just thinking about, yeah, that concept of

[00:28:43] like, like nowadays it's like the people risking their lives with a paycheck involved would be

[00:28:47] like law enforcement, military, uh, you know, fire protection, um, things like that.

[00:28:54] But like the idea of going out just into the wilderness with a kind of a plan and just hoping

[00:29:00] for the best and with the consequences being that high and there being so many risks.

[00:29:05] Like, and, and why did he come here?

[00:29:07] Right.

[00:29:07] I mean, as far as we know, he probably heard the stories coming out of the West, come West

[00:29:11] young man.

[00:29:12] There's gold everywhere.

[00:29:13] As one historian was telling me, it's reasonable to think that's why he came out here.

[00:29:17] He followed the stories and only to become a story himself, you know, that we would be

[00:29:23] talking about 150 years later.

[00:29:26] Yeah, that is absolutely wild.

[00:29:26] Kind of a trip.

[00:29:28] Yeah, that is, that's some heavy stuff, Seth.

[00:29:30] You're going to eat lunch now?

[00:29:32] Out here, uh, oh yeah, right.

[00:29:35] You know, I haven't eaten yet today, I'm kind of, I'm a little bit off-put in there,

[00:29:40] but, um, yeah, uh, heavy stuff, man.

[00:29:44] Hopefully we don't have to talk about cannibalism until next Halloween.

[00:29:46] I know, right?

[00:29:47] And it's like, it is crazy that like 150 years later, it's like, here you are local reporter

[00:29:52] for Colorado Springs area and beyond.

[00:29:56] And you're still covering, is he innocent?

[00:29:59] Alfred Packer.

[00:29:59] It's still relevant to people still care.

[00:30:01] Yeah.

[00:30:01] His graves in Littleton, you know?

[00:30:03] Yeah.

[00:30:03] And you can, you can visit it, right?

[00:30:05] I was told, um, this time of year, you'll, you'll, you'll find like chicken bones on

[00:30:08] it.

[00:30:09] Like rotisserie.

[00:30:11] I don't know if that's true.

[00:30:12] So now I'm hungry again.

[00:30:13] Uh, all right.

[00:30:16] So yeah, moving on from that really dark topic to, uh, something that's kind of just being

[00:30:20] discussed in the outdoor recreation world.

[00:30:23] Yeah.

[00:30:23] Uh, in recent weeks, a, um, a North face or a North face sponsored trail runner, uh,

[00:30:31] Micolino's son, Sari, uh, I think I said his name, right?

[00:30:35] Um, one of the best runners around, uh, is potentially going to face a $5,000 fine for

[00:30:44] cutting a switch back on a trail, um, during this fastest known time attempt.

[00:30:50] Right.

[00:30:50] Uh, and this is reporting from a gear junkie right now.

[00:30:54] They cover this extensively.

[00:30:55] Probably go to the gear junkie website, find an in-depth read on kind of why this is the

[00:31:00] case.

[00:31:01] But essentially what was happening, uh, is this, this runner was trying to set the fastest time

[00:31:06] up grand Teton this September.

[00:31:09] And he did it.

[00:31:10] Uh, he's, he made that trip, uh, I think up and back, uh, might just been up.

[00:31:16] You'll have to look us up, but it took two hours, 50 minutes, 50 seconds, uh, submitted

[00:31:20] the record.

[00:31:21] Um, it's kind of established as a record, but then days later, uh, that record gets revoked

[00:31:27] after it was discovered that he cut a switch back on a trail.

[00:31:31] Wow.

[00:31:32] Again, the switchbacks kind of when the trail kind of zigzags across the mountain, right?

[00:31:35] Usually they're in there just to make it a little bit less steep, a little bit easier.

[00:31:40] Less erosive.

[00:31:40] Yeah.

[00:31:41] Less erosive, less erosion there, um, by trying to dig up the mountain, you know?

[00:31:46] Yeah.

[00:31:47] Um, so apparently though, uh, where he did this at, if you get caught, um, cutting switchbacks,

[00:31:56] potential five, $5,000 fine.

[00:31:58] Wow.

[00:31:58] So, uh, and, and he actually has a courtney.

[00:32:01] Levied by the, uh, land manager?

[00:32:04] What's the?

[00:32:04] I think it was in a national park.

[00:32:06] Okay.

[00:32:06] Um, well, sure.

[00:32:08] That would make sense.

[00:32:09] Uh, Teton's right?

[00:32:11] Yeah.

[00:32:11] Grand Teton National Park.

[00:32:12] Yeah.

[00:32:12] National Park Service.

[00:32:13] Um, and up to, it could face up to six months in jail, which is interesting too, uh, with

[00:32:17] that, with that citation.

[00:32:19] Yeah.

[00:32:19] It's a penalty of up to 5,000 and or six months in jail.

[00:32:22] And that's according to wild file, their local news source there.

[00:32:26] Um, and he actually has a court date, uh, set in November, uh, I think November 19th.

[00:32:32] So yeah, going to be an interesting situation to see how that unfolds because it's like, I

[00:32:38] mean, anyone who's climbed 14 years has probably seen that happen where you see people kind of

[00:32:42] cut across, cut across switchbacks, you know, it's like, you know, cut out hundreds of yards

[00:32:46] of hiking potentially just to, when you can just go up over like a little steep section.

[00:32:53] I saw a woman spare herself maybe 10 yards the other day.

[00:32:56] Yeah.

[00:32:56] Yeah.

[00:32:56] And it's, well, and the thing is, it's like, it's interesting to see how, how, uh,

[00:33:02] serious authorities are taking this offense in that regard.

[00:33:06] I have not dug into this.

[00:33:07] That's wild.

[00:33:07] Yeah.

[00:33:08] It's pretty, pretty interesting.

[00:33:09] And I think one thing that concerned them a lot was that he was obviously like a very

[00:33:13] one, he's, he's going for record setting push, uh, which is going to get publicity.

[00:33:17] And then he's also somebody who is well known in the, in the athlete world and the trail

[00:33:22] running world.

[00:33:23] Um, so it might encourage other people to do the same thing.

[00:33:27] Uh, if they let it slide that, that seemed to be some of the commentary around that.

[00:33:32] It sounds like a precedent kind of, yeah.

[00:33:34] Right.

[00:33:34] We're talking about it.

[00:33:35] Yeah.

[00:33:36] One person cuts the trail.

[00:33:37] Um, someone else comes up and sees even just that footpath, even if they don't see

[00:33:41] them cutting the trail, it doesn't take many people doing it to create an actual path

[00:33:45] there and fragile Alpine terrain.

[00:33:48] Um, and then all of a sudden everyone starts doing it.

[00:33:50] Yeah.

[00:33:50] And I mean, there are risks that, uh, come with that too.

[00:33:53] It's like one of those risks is one, you're going up steep, potentially loose terrain.

[00:33:59] So you may be more likely to get hurt.

[00:34:01] Um, but maybe even more importantly, and I would say more importantly, uh, is that that

[00:34:06] erosion aspect that you mentioned, like it can just be so damaging when you're off trail

[00:34:10] in these fat, fragile, uh, fragile areas that it can take years to recover from that damage.

[00:34:15] That rain just washes down and scours that mountainside and yeah, it's a big project trying

[00:34:20] to, it is inexpensive when that money can be spent elsewhere, you know?

[00:34:24] So, um, yeah, so just an interesting story going on and we'll be following that.

[00:34:29] Uh, if you'd follow along with the out there Colorado reporting, uh, we'll make sure we

[00:34:33] eventually get some sort of coverage out whenever.

[00:34:36] But of course the idea that people read, what was it?

[00:34:39] 5,000, $5,000.

[00:34:41] Yeah.

[00:34:41] $5,000 and six months in jail.

[00:34:43] Six months in jail.

[00:34:43] That's surprising.

[00:34:44] People might think twice on if they're cutting a switchback.

[00:34:47] Yeah.

[00:34:47] When they read that.

[00:34:48] Right.

[00:34:48] Which like brings me to that like precedent kind of thing, you know?

[00:34:52] Yeah.

[00:34:52] Well, and the, and the actual, uh, so this extends past just switchbacks too.

[00:34:56] Um, so the language, and this is, uh, according to wild file, uh, the language, uh, for this

[00:35:02] rule that, uh, he allegedly violated.

[00:35:04] Um, and again, all this is allegedly right.

[00:35:08] Yeah.

[00:35:08] Like there hasn't been any sort of official, official, uh, ruling on this.

[00:35:12] So he is totally innocent until proven guilty in a sense.

[00:35:16] Right.

[00:35:16] So just to get that out there too.

[00:35:18] Um, going back to the Packer language here.

[00:35:21] Yeah.

[00:35:21] Right.

[00:35:22] But, uh, yeah.

[00:35:23] So the language of this is, uh, anyone who leaves a trail or walkway to shortcut between

[00:35:28] portions of the same trail or adjacent trail in a national park could be subject to this $5,000

[00:35:35] penalty and up to six months in jail.

[00:35:37] So like that includes like, if you're just, there's two trails there and you're like, I

[00:35:40] want to be on that trail instead of this one.

[00:35:43] If you go over to that trail, that could make you subject to that as well.

[00:35:47] So yeah.

[00:35:48] Interesting stuff.

[00:35:49] Well, and it's, it's, you know, I mean, I can, I can sympathize with just general people

[00:35:55] you and I see out there on the trails.

[00:35:57] We all see out there on the trails.

[00:35:58] I mean, there's, there's people who are not aware of what we're talking about, you know,

[00:36:04] the, what, what the real damage of these things and they just see a path that looks easier and

[00:36:10] they take it.

[00:36:10] Yeah.

[00:36:11] You know, um, there's no fence blocking.

[00:36:15] There's no sign marking, you know?

[00:36:17] I mean, yeah.

[00:36:18] Yeah.

[00:36:19] Yeah.

[00:36:19] Accidents as other people would call it.

[00:36:21] Yeah.

[00:36:22] That's why we, that's why we're talking about it now.

[00:36:24] That's right.

[00:36:25] Um, spreading that information.

[00:36:26] Uh, yeah, it is one of those things where I think a lot of times when people do make

[00:36:29] that violation, um, it's, it's just out of ignorance for lack of better term, but they

[00:36:35] just aren't familiar with the rules and, and same thing with, you know, the city parks

[00:36:39] department here in Colorado Springs has really gone to lengths to close out what some call

[00:36:45] social trails or rogue trails or simply non system trails, right?

[00:36:48] Yeah.

[00:36:49] Trails that were built outside the system purview by people just blazing a trail to the place

[00:36:55] that they want to go.

[00:36:56] Yeah.

[00:36:56] Yeah.

[00:36:57] We see it and we walk on it or we ride on it, not knowing it's a rogue or illegal trail.

[00:37:03] Yeah.

[00:37:04] Well, and I think, and don't quote me on this number, but I think it was something like 30

[00:37:07] to 40 miles of trails were founded in like red rock.

[00:37:10] Red rock alone, which like, that's hard.

[00:37:13] It's probably 30 miles of trails that are official there.

[00:37:17] I would guess if deer paths, like, yeah, like a lot of game.

[00:37:20] Yeah.

[00:37:20] That's a one.

[00:37:21] That's a big problem too.

[00:37:22] Sometimes it's like a game game path where it's a trail that deer using, uh, will kind

[00:37:28] of create a, something that looks like a path.

[00:37:30] So you get lost, you follow the game path.

[00:37:31] I mean, that that's led to a lot of kind of lost and missing persons situations around

[00:37:36] the state.

[00:37:37] Um, just when these game paths exist and obviously like, you know, park officials are cool with

[00:37:43] the game paths, but usually they'll put down like a log or something.

[00:37:47] They're going to start ticketing the deer, man.

[00:37:48] Yeah.

[00:37:48] Right.

[00:37:48] Yeah.

[00:37:48] If you ever see a log, uh, kind of across a trail, it probably means that that's a game

[00:37:53] path and you shouldn't go down that trail.

[00:37:55] Uh, so that's a good telltale sign there.

[00:37:57] Um, but yeah, I just want to touch on that story real quick.

[00:38:00] Uh, as well.

[00:38:01] Yeah.

[00:38:01] Right.

[00:38:02] Uh, so Seth though, you had a pretty interesting interview, um, out in, in Vail area.

[00:38:08] You were talking to somebody out there now.

[00:38:10] Um, golden.

[00:38:11] The Sherpa.

[00:38:12] Okay.

[00:38:12] Yeah.

[00:38:12] He originally came into Vail in 2017.

[00:38:16] That's where he landed in Colorado.

[00:38:18] His name is Sange, Sange Sherpa.

[00:38:21] And, and what was a pretty well publicized situation in 2017.

[00:38:27] He caught headlines and reports for potentially being the youngest guide to reach the top, the

[00:38:35] youngest Sherpa to reach the top of Everest with a client in 2017.

[00:38:40] He was 18 years old.

[00:38:41] Dang.

[00:38:43] Um, again, that's just reportedly some claimed him to be the youngest.

[00:38:48] And then some also claimed him to be, uh, a subject to what was called the highest rescue

[00:38:57] on that mountain known.

[00:38:59] Um, and that was above 27,000 feet around the balcony below the summit.

[00:39:04] Wow.

[00:39:05] And I got that right.

[00:39:06] Is that around 27,000 feet where the balcony is?

[00:39:08] Well, and for, uh, for reference to Everest is 29,000 feet.

[00:39:14] Yeah.

[00:39:14] He was right there.

[00:39:15] He was right there.

[00:39:15] So on their way down.

[00:39:18] So, um, his story was kind of taken as like an example of, um, of like kind of the, um,

[00:39:27] there's a word, what am I trying to say?

[00:39:29] The misconduct or the, um, exploitation that happens on the mountain, right?

[00:39:35] In the commercial world about Everest.

[00:39:37] Mm-hmm .

[00:39:37] There was a, um, a, a supposedly a bad client client who was not meant to be on that mountain.

[00:39:46] Supposedly other Sherpas knew it.

[00:39:48] And Sangay's company said, you want to take this guy up?

[00:39:52] Sangay is a young Sherpa trying to make his way 18 years old.

[00:39:56] He decides to take the man up and they get to the top.

[00:40:01] Um, on the way down, oxygen is depleted.

[00:40:05] Um, Sangay says he had, he had sacrificed his own oxygen and they both, uh, you know,

[00:40:12] are on the verge of death.

[00:40:14] Um, Sangay loses all of his fingers frostbite, but supposedly Sherpa see him and decide he's

[00:40:21] too young.

[00:40:21] We can't just leave him here.

[00:40:23] They, they, they, they sense life and they drag him.

[00:40:26] Drag him down.

[00:40:27] And it all leads to, um, a hospital in Nepal where there's talk of, uh, ampute, having

[00:40:34] to amputate his hands.

[00:40:36] Um, word reaches some of the Sherpa community here in Colorado, along with some other, um,

[00:40:42] Nepal advocates here in Colorado.

[00:40:43] And they find a way to get Sangay to veil for surgery, very complex surgery that maintains

[00:40:51] some function of his, um, parts, very minimal parts of his fingers and his hands.

[00:40:58] Just keep his hands anyway.

[00:40:59] Um, and it was a client, the client made it down to, yep.

[00:41:03] Both survived.

[00:41:04] Yep.

[00:41:04] Was the client also rescued?

[00:41:06] The client was also rescued.

[00:41:07] Yep.

[00:41:07] Did he have any, I think also frostbite also frostbite.

[00:41:12] Um, yeah, I'm trying to remember.

[00:41:14] Um, but anyway, so flash forward to today, Sangay is still like living life in Colorado,

[00:41:18] trying to make his way in Colorado.

[00:41:20] Now he's what?

[00:41:21] 26 years old living in golden.

[00:41:24] We went and hiked, uh, North table mountain.

[00:41:28] He had never been on North table mountain before.

[00:41:30] So I was like, now I can be your guide.

[00:41:32] Yeah.

[00:41:32] That's a, that's a staple for golden.

[00:41:34] He loved it.

[00:41:35] What's he, what's he doing?

[00:41:36] Yeah.

[00:41:37] Um, so he's trying to get, um, a visa to work.

[00:41:40] Okay.

[00:41:41] Yep.

[00:41:41] He's on a medical visa and he's kind of struggled to get that, that right to work, but he really

[00:41:46] hopes that he can work and he's gotten real active with volunteering and real active

[00:41:52] with the adaptive athlete community.

[00:41:55] He kind of lives between two worlds as, uh, um, someone who's real prominent, a leader

[00:42:02] in the Sherpa community here.

[00:42:03] Carson Sherpa was telling me, he kind of lives between two worlds, that world in Nepal, in

[00:42:09] this world in America and that world in Nepal.

[00:42:12] Um, if you're like Sangay and you have a physical disability or any sign of it, as Carson

[00:42:17] told me, you know, you're treated like a second class citizen, like in every way.

[00:42:21] And so for as much as Sangay would like to go back and live that life in Nepal, there's

[00:42:28] just not really a path for him.

[00:42:30] Um, and so he's trying to find a path in America.

[00:42:33] Yeah.

[00:42:34] Maybe he can, he can get a foundation going as he talks about to serve adaptive athletes

[00:42:40] and he does a little bit of everything, man.

[00:42:43] Like obviously he climbs still rock climbs.

[00:42:47] He's tried golfing, he's tried, uh, paragliding.

[00:42:51] Nice.

[00:42:51] He's just mixing it up.

[00:42:53] Yeah.

[00:42:53] Well, I mean, and there's all sorts of adaptive sport opportunities in Colorado.

[00:42:57] Yeah.

[00:42:57] It's kind of known for that around the world.

[00:42:59] Yeah.

[00:42:59] Yeah.

[00:42:59] Um, yeah, there's a lot of amazing athletes out there.

[00:43:02] Yeah.

[00:43:03] It really is the case.

[00:43:04] Yeah.

[00:43:04] And, uh, the whole client, uh, client Sherpa or I guess client Porter relationship, um,

[00:43:14] in the Everest, uh, in the Everest region is just also fascinating.

[00:43:18] Uh, one book, it's a, I mean, it's a little bit older now, but, uh, one book that I really

[00:43:22] love that really puts that kind of that aspect of the commercialization of Mount Everest on

[00:43:27] display is into thin air by John Krakauer.

[00:43:29] Yeah.

[00:43:30] Um, if you find that on Amazon, you can find used copies for less than 10 bucks.

[00:43:34] Uh, try to buy one with the illustrations and with the photos in it.

[00:43:37] Uh, but it shows you just how wild that Everest climb is.

[00:43:40] Yeah.

[00:43:41] And that book takes place during, uh, one of the, one of the deadliest years, um, on

[00:43:47] Everest, uh, essentially involves, uh, someone who's a outdoor recreation rider and kind of

[00:43:53] like a novice athlete at the time, um, gets invited to join this, this group, uh, going to

[00:44:00] the top of Everest.

[00:44:01] And he ends up kind of being, uh, I mean, I'm not gonna, no spoilers, but it's, it's intense

[00:44:05] and it's, uh, you know, it's just a while since I read that.

[00:44:09] You remind me.

[00:44:10] Yeah.

[00:44:10] Yeah.

[00:44:11] A lot of good stuff by John Krakauer.

[00:44:12] Yeah.

[00:44:13] One of my favorite riders, but yeah, that was, it was song gaze.

[00:44:15] Like, so he had to be clear, he had experience in the Himalayas, you know, he at a very young

[00:44:21] age, um, pursued that work and started as a porter, like carrying more than his own weight

[00:44:27] on his back as like a little kid, you know?

[00:44:28] Um, and, and, and, and carve that way for himself.

[00:44:32] And he'd been on like a, he'd been on rescue teams on Everest, but he'd never been assigned

[00:44:38] to, uh, to a summit.

[00:44:40] Yeah.

[00:44:40] Until this ill fated job.

[00:44:43] Yeah.

[00:44:43] Uh, you know, as he told the story, it was like, he was like, I was amazed we got to

[00:44:47] the top, you know?

[00:44:48] So, and I was amazed.

[00:44:50] And of course, more amazed that we got down.

[00:44:52] Were they just beat down by the, uh, just ran into bad weather.

[00:44:56] Ran into bad weather.

[00:44:57] They did run into bad weather.

[00:44:58] Yep.

[00:44:59] Yep.

[00:44:59] And, um, yeah, he, he told the story of, uh, of like, you know, first like dreaming

[00:45:07] of like drinking an ocean.

[00:45:09] Right.

[00:45:09] And then this other story of like being in like this field of, of flowers and while

[00:45:16] he's on the mountain.

[00:45:17] Yeah.

[00:45:17] While he's, while he's unconscious.

[00:45:19] Oh my gosh.

[00:45:20] He's unconscious on the mountain and hearing like, as he said, beautiful women, like call

[00:45:25] his name, you know, come home, come home.

[00:45:27] And he, he, he remembers like vividly, like taking a step.

[00:45:31] If he took a step, that would be it.

[00:45:33] And he just had this thought of like, I don't think I should take a step.

[00:45:37] And then the next thing he remembers, he woke up in a tent.

[00:45:39] I think he was at camp three.

[00:45:40] Yeah.

[00:45:41] I have chills just hearing about that.

[00:45:43] That's crazy.

[00:45:43] That is wild.

[00:45:45] Yeah.

[00:45:46] Ooh, scary stuff.

[00:45:47] Yeah.

[00:45:48] I think he's doing well.

[00:45:49] He's got a lot of support.

[00:45:50] He's got a lot of support.

[00:45:51] He's got, he's got a good support system.

[00:45:54] Um, that's helping him out.

[00:45:55] So, and he's just his attitude.

[00:45:57] He's just like very grateful person, a very positive person, you know?

[00:46:02] So that's, that's good to hear.

[00:46:04] Yeah.

[00:46:04] Wishing the best for Sangha.

[00:46:05] Yeah.

[00:46:06] Wishing, wishing the best for him for sure.

[00:46:08] Yeah.

[00:46:09] Um, yeah.

[00:46:09] He'll have to keep us updated with what he, what he does do in terms of organization.

[00:46:13] Yeah.

[00:46:14] If he starts that or, uh, I met him on, uh, on a, um, um, a trip through the Lockwood

[00:46:23] foundation.

[00:46:24] Oh yeah.

[00:46:25] Lockwood foundation.

[00:46:26] Great.

[00:46:26] Who gets people with disabilities to even the highest mountains.

[00:46:30] Yeah.

[00:46:31] Yeah.

[00:46:32] Every year they do a, they do a trip up.

[00:46:34] Yeah.

[00:46:34] Albert.

[00:46:34] And this year was Pike's peak, right?

[00:46:35] Yep.

[00:46:35] Did you go to the summit for that?

[00:46:37] Yeah.

[00:46:38] With that group.

[00:46:38] And that's how I met Sangha.

[00:46:39] Yeah.

[00:46:40] I just looked over and here's Sangha.

[00:46:41] It's Jeff Lockwood, right?

[00:46:42] That's right.

[00:46:43] Yeah.

[00:46:43] Cool organization.

[00:46:44] They really like assembled dozens and dozens of people to help.

[00:46:49] Armies.

[00:46:49] Get one person to the mountaintop.

[00:46:51] And it's, it seems like it's just over, over the course of multiple days too.

[00:46:55] And it seems like it's just such a.

[00:46:56] Yeah.

[00:46:56] Very logistical.

[00:46:58] Very logistical.

[00:46:59] And yeah.

[00:47:01] So that's how I met Sangha.

[00:47:02] He was on that Pike's peak climb.

[00:47:04] Nice.

[00:47:04] Crazy.

[00:47:04] Yeah.

[00:47:05] That is wild.

[00:47:07] Yeah.

[00:47:08] So I guess switching it back to kind of a more hard news story, so to speak.

[00:47:12] Yeah.

[00:47:13] A Basin has announced that their parking reservations will be available.

[00:47:19] The first round of those on November 1st, 10 AM mountain time.

[00:47:25] Reservations are now going to be required at Arapahoe Basin for parking on, on all weekends

[00:47:33] during their peak season.

[00:47:34] I think it's sometime in, I think it's like December to May or something.

[00:47:38] It says it on the website.

[00:47:39] Um, easy to find.

[00:47:41] Um, but yeah, so reservation, parking reservations will be required for every vehicle going day

[00:47:46] based on, on the weekends and on holidays.

[00:47:49] Um, parking still free, uh, during the weeks and no reservations required there.

[00:47:54] But yeah, parking starts at 20 bucks a day.

[00:47:56] I was going to say, I've never seen that.

[00:47:58] Yeah.

[00:47:58] Some of them are 40 bucks and then the beach, the beach spot too.

[00:48:01] Like that was one of my favorite things that just whenever I first moved to Colorado, you

[00:48:06] know, 10 years, 10 years ago or so.

[00:48:08] Such a good scene.

[00:48:08] Yeah.

[00:48:09] Such a good scene.

[00:48:09] Um, those beach spots are probably going to be pretty pricey.

[00:48:13] I would imagine.

[00:48:13] Uh, those are, you have to reserve those, uh, every day of the week, uh, highly coveted

[00:48:19] stuff, but yeah, it'll be interesting to see.

[00:48:21] Um, I see how the ski community reacts to, uh, another, another spot doing the paid parking

[00:48:28] and reservations.

[00:48:29] So changes in the first year under Altera, right?

[00:48:32] Um, so basin.

[00:48:33] Yeah.

[00:48:34] So I don't think that sale is totally complete yet.

[00:48:37] Okay.

[00:48:37] I think that it was still in the process of the courts, so to speak, determining if it's

[00:48:42] got a legitimate situation.

[00:48:45] Um, I would guess it probably goes through, but, uh, that's, that's 100% a guess.

[00:48:51] Um, but yeah, so, uh, they are on the icon pass this year.

[00:48:57] I think there were no changes.

[00:48:59] Um, isn't like seven days.

[00:49:00] Yeah.

[00:49:00] I think it's seven days.

[00:49:01] Um, I would imagine if that sale goes through, maybe there's a change there, but, uh, man,

[00:49:06] I, I love a basin.

[00:49:07] I've always loved a basin.

[00:49:09] It's, it's one of my favorite spots in the state.

[00:49:11] It's kind of that, that refuge in the middle of mega resort country, you know, like it

[00:49:16] feels like something different.

[00:49:18] Oh yeah.

[00:49:18] And it felt like some late season vibes at a basin, like after that may, so maybe after

[00:49:22] the, after the parking reservation system lifts even, uh, there's still some great skiing

[00:49:27] to be had.

[00:49:28] Um, sometimes into July, even, I don't know if it's that great.

[00:49:31] I'm married in July, but yeah.

[00:49:32] July.

[00:49:33] I remember what was that years ago, that July 4th, you remember the traffic?

[00:49:36] Yeah.

[00:49:37] Do you ever, Oh, every skier in the States, like I want to go there.

[00:49:40] But I will say on those spring days, like it doesn't even matter if you get more than

[00:49:44] a runner to end or even if you're skiing, like people just go there for the, get a Bloody

[00:49:48] Mary.

[00:49:48] Yeah.

[00:49:49] I get a Bloody Mary at the bar and bacon bloody quick, quick little run on the corn

[00:49:53] and, and a side, they do Bloody Marys.

[00:49:56] You can get a sidecar and a little mini course.

[00:49:58] Oh yeah.

[00:49:58] You used to be able to for like a buck or something.

[00:50:00] Um, so I got to do that, but yeah.

[00:50:02] And the beaver's terrain is really cool.

[00:50:05] Uh, yeah.

[00:50:06] That just opened up within the last few years.

[00:50:08] Um, yeah.

[00:50:09] A-bayson, A-bayson's always been a favorite.

[00:50:11] It always will be a favorite, regardless of who the owner is, regardless of who the pass,

[00:50:15] what pass it's on.

[00:50:16] They're really boosting the summer scene too.

[00:50:17] You were up doing the, uh, the Via Ferrata, right?

[00:50:20] Yeah.

[00:50:20] Yeah.

[00:50:21] Via Ferrata.

[00:50:22] Um, yeah.

[00:50:23] For full disclosure, uh, their, their, their marketing team wanted our team to come up,

[00:50:29] um, on a paid project for their Via Ferrata specifically.

[00:50:32] Um, so our, our team went up and, and check that out.

[00:50:36] Uh, I had done the Via Ferrata before, uh, that day and knew it was awesome already.

[00:50:41] So I was like, you've done that one before.

[00:50:43] Yeah.

[00:50:43] Yeah.

[00:50:43] Yeah.

[00:50:45] Um, but they wanted all that drone footage and stuff like that, uh, of, of this course.

[00:50:51] So, uh, yeah, we went up there, we took our, um, took Cody, uh, who does some videography

[00:50:56] work for us.

[00:50:57] And, uh, I was talking to him before he went up there and I was like, so, uh, you're comfortable

[00:51:01] with climbing.

[00:51:02] Normally Sam would come, but Sam had had a shoulder thing.

[00:51:05] And he was like, I don't know if I can deal with the camera equipment while I'm climbing.

[00:51:08] Sure, Sam.

[00:51:09] Right.

[00:51:09] Hey, Sam did do a Via Ferrata with us at, uh, Univista.

[00:51:12] Uh, I, I do believe that the shoulder, shoulder thing was fully, fully legitimate.

[00:51:16] Um, but either way, uh, and, and I'm saying that in full seriousness, totally legitimate.

[00:51:23] Yeah.

[00:51:24] Yeah.

[00:51:24] Yeah.

[00:51:24] Um, uh, either way though, Cody ended up on this trip with us and, uh, he's got all his

[00:51:29] camera gear and, uh, I've always loved Via Ferrata is they're one of my favorite things

[00:51:32] to do, uh, in the mountains.

[00:51:34] I think it's just, it's fun.

[00:51:36] I love rock climbing and Via Ferrata is just kind of a really cool twist on that.

[00:51:39] A little extra protection.

[00:51:40] Yeah.

[00:51:41] A little extra protection makes it a little bit easier.

[00:51:42] You know, it's, uh, you're never going up too technical terrain on a Via Ferrata.

[00:51:48] Less stress for sure.

[00:51:49] Yeah.

[00:51:49] Less stress.

[00:51:50] Um, but yeah, either way, uh, I was like, yeah, Cody, how, how comfortable are you climbing?

[00:51:55] And he's like, oh yeah, rock climbing stuff.

[00:51:58] Uh, we get there and, uh, then he realizes it's like 800 foot wall.

[00:52:03] We're going up and, uh, he's like, oh wow, this is a big wall.

[00:52:08] He's got like his drone pack on his back.

[00:52:10] He's got all of the other like equipment.

[00:52:11] And then the first thing he does, one of the first shots we're getting is, um, they're

[00:52:16] four by four or like the little, uh, four by four that kind of takes you up to the start

[00:52:20] of the course.

[00:52:21] We're getting a drone shot of another group drone freaks out, slices his finger open.

[00:52:26] So he's, he's got bandages all over.

[00:52:29] Yeah.

[00:52:29] So Cody, yeah, Cody, he did a great warrior.

[00:52:32] Yeah.

[00:52:33] So I did years ago when the Royal Gorge was opening their Via Ferrata.

[00:52:38] Yeah.

[00:52:39] I went out and did that and on the Gazette side.

[00:52:42] And, um, and I was, I was with a photo intern who was coming out there.

[00:52:47] It was like one of their first, is that Parker?

[00:52:50] I think it was Parker.

[00:52:51] I've seen it.

[00:52:52] You remember this?

[00:52:52] I think it was Parker.

[00:52:53] I think Parker was coming out and, uh, we're driving in like just by coincidence, like

[00:52:59] the, you know, I, she saw the information as far as I at least thought.

[00:53:04] And she had mentioned just offhand that like, she wasn't great with heights or something.

[00:53:08] And I kind of looked at her and I was like, do you know what we're doing today?

[00:53:14] And she nailed it.

[00:53:15] I mean, I was the scared one.

[00:53:17] She was good to go.

[00:53:18] I've heard really good things about that Via Ferrata too.

[00:53:20] It's pretty epic.

[00:53:21] There's a lot of, a lot of great ones in Colorado.

[00:53:23] It's pretty epic.

[00:53:24] The one out at ADA was fun.

[00:53:25] Uh, we did that one.

[00:53:27] On a project.

[00:53:27] Yeah.

[00:53:28] And Buena Vista.

[00:53:29] That was more like, kind of like Via Ferrata meets High Ropes course.

[00:53:31] Yeah.

[00:53:32] You can find all this video content on our Instagram if you're curious about, if you're

[00:53:35] listening to this and curious about checking it out.

[00:53:37] But, um, URA has one now, right?

[00:53:38] Yeah.

[00:53:39] That one's totally free too.

[00:53:41] I think it has, they have an upper and a lower section where you can kind of pick and

[00:53:44] choose.

[00:53:45] That one looks super cool.

[00:53:46] You kind of go across the river.

[00:53:48] Um, yeah, really cool.

[00:53:49] The Telluride one, obviously that's, that's, that's the OG.

[00:53:52] The most iconic one.

[00:53:54] Yeah.

[00:53:54] Yeah.

[00:53:55] Built by, I think it was Chuck Kroger.

[00:53:57] I want to say, uh, cause people call it the Krogerata.

[00:53:59] Uh, but, uh, he just kind of built it up on this trail over the years.

[00:54:03] And now it's become, I guess a little more official.

[00:54:06] Um, yeah, that one's awesome.

[00:54:09] You're standing on little metal pegs, like 500 feet above the ground, like just looking

[00:54:14] down at the earth below you.

[00:54:15] Yeah.

[00:54:16] Um, yeah.

[00:54:17] Via Ferrata are very cool.

[00:54:18] Yeah.

[00:54:19] And I mean, even with the filming stuff too, we were out on a little rafting project.

[00:54:22] So like how Heights can be one of those things where it's like anytime, uh, wherever,

[00:54:28] like in the, in the eight years that I've been with out there, Colorado, right.

[00:54:31] It's like, we've done a few different little climbing projects here and there.

[00:54:34] And it's always one of those things where it's like, okay, you can't be scared of heights,

[00:54:37] which is like one of the most innate human fears.

[00:54:40] I think it's like 80% of people or something are like, uh, I'm totally making that percentage

[00:54:45] up, but it's gotta be high, uh, scared of heights unless they have some exposure to

[00:54:49] it.

[00:54:49] Um, but water is the one for me, uh, where I'm like water, like moving rivers and like

[00:54:55] really oceans kind of terrify me in a way.

[00:54:58] Yeah.

[00:54:58] It's just so powerful.

[00:54:59] Uh, but we had to do a rafting trip.

[00:55:01] So the whole, uh, whole time leading up to that and Sam is like, he's a, uh, seasoned,

[00:55:07] uh, seasoned rafter and like knows what he's doing.

[00:55:09] He's very good.

[00:55:11] Um, and that all of his friends and his family and stuff, like a lot of people, he's been

[00:55:17] around a lot of good rafters in his day.

[00:55:19] Uh, then there's me who's been on a raft one time and, uh, all the water levels are like,

[00:55:23] like super wild.

[00:55:25] Yeah.

[00:55:25] They were like five times the norm or something.

[00:55:27] Yeah.

[00:55:28] Uh, the week before we went, the water was I think 33 degrees on the Arkansas.

[00:55:32] Uh, so I was just terrified leading up to this.

[00:55:35] I was like, this is going to be awful.

[00:55:36] I feel like I might die here.

[00:55:38] Like this is not a good situation.

[00:55:41] Did you stay in?

[00:55:41] We stayed in thankfully.

[00:55:43] It probably would have been, and honestly it was a great experience.

[00:55:45] I loved it.

[00:55:45] The second we like hit that first rapid.

[00:55:47] Um, and that was, that was with AVA, uh, on a, on a project for them.

[00:55:52] Um, but that second we hit that first rapid, I was like, okay, like I can breathe a little

[00:55:57] bit better.

[00:55:57] Yeah.

[00:55:58] I can do this.

[00:55:58] And then we get through like, I think the second of like seven big rapids we were hitting.

[00:56:04] Uh, the second one was, uh, the one they were like, this is a lot of the

[00:56:08] This is the scariest one where people fall out.

[00:56:10] We made it through that.

[00:56:10] I was like, Oh, okay.

[00:56:12] Like we're good.

[00:56:13] We have a chance of having this.

[00:56:15] I succumbed to snaggle tooth on the Dolores.

[00:56:19] Oh yeah.

[00:56:20] That's the one time I've fallen in, which is it's class four.

[00:56:24] How was that?

[00:56:24] Scary man.

[00:56:25] Scary falling in.

[00:56:26] I think my, maybe my feet were still in or something.

[00:56:29] I got grabbed.

[00:56:30] I got grabbed pretty quick.

[00:56:31] And then I looked to my right and the woman next to me had fallen in.

[00:56:35] So we all grabbed her.

[00:56:36] It was, yeah, it's a little freaky.

[00:56:38] Oh man.

[00:56:38] Yeah.

[00:56:39] When we're going through these rapids, they're like, Oh, by the way, we're by some old, uh,

[00:56:42] railroad tracks.

[00:56:43] So if you fall out here, don't go left because there's little rebar under the water.

[00:56:49] And I'm like danger by water and land.

[00:56:51] If I fall out right here, I don't think I'll, I will be in a panic and just be going

[00:56:54] for anything.

[00:56:56] Yeah.

[00:56:56] Well in Colorado, as in everywhere, I mean, the fear of water is, is probably very healthy.

[00:57:03] Yeah.

[00:57:04] You know, I mean, and respect for it too.

[00:57:05] I'd say that's what I'm saying.

[00:57:06] Yeah.

[00:57:07] That's what I'm saying.

[00:57:08] Yeah.

[00:57:08] I mean just that, just the sheer fact that that water is cold can do things to your body

[00:57:13] that I think a lot of people aren't aware of.

[00:57:17] Yeah.

[00:57:17] Great swimmers die every year, you know, every year, every year.

[00:57:21] Yeah.

[00:57:22] Just on a lake.

[00:57:22] That shock.

[00:57:23] Yeah.

[00:57:23] That, that cold shock can do things.

[00:57:25] Yeah.

[00:57:26] Yeah.

[00:57:26] It basically just like causes your muscles to spaz and you just kind of, your body shuts

[00:57:30] down.

[00:57:31] Very freaky.

[00:57:31] Yeah.

[00:57:32] And I will say too, one of the other things on the rafting trip, uh, one, we did have

[00:57:35] life jackets, right?

[00:57:36] Like everyone has to wear life jackets.

[00:57:37] It's shocking how good life jackets are.

[00:57:39] It's like 98% of the deaths that we'll ultimately cover.

[00:57:43] Uh, no life jacket.

[00:57:45] It's no life jacket.

[00:57:45] Yeah.

[00:57:46] Um, so that's, that's something you gotta do.

[00:57:48] Um, but also something that I did find comforting in addition to having the life jacket on and

[00:57:53] a wetsuit on, you look, look over the raft beside us.

[00:57:56] There's like little, like seven year old kid on it.

[00:57:59] I'm like, I'm like, how is it?

[00:58:00] The kids like charging into the water and I'm like over here, like kind of cowering, like

[00:58:04] yeah.

[00:58:05] Yeah.

[00:58:05] I know, ready to dive in the middle.

[00:58:07] If any sort of slight bump happens.

[00:58:09] But, uh, so I was like, it can't be that, that, that, but yeah, and that was, and that

[00:58:13] was fun.

[00:58:13] Uh, and, and again, it was, it was a client project in full disclosure, but yeah, going

[00:58:17] with ABA, like their, their guides knew it was up.

[00:58:20] Like they, they know every rock of the river.

[00:58:22] Like probably I would imagine most reputable guiding companies around the state.

[00:58:26] Yeah.

[00:58:26] It's their job to know every rock, know what it's like in different conditions, know where

[00:58:30] the hazards are.

[00:58:32] Yeah.

[00:58:32] Um, totally different experience than just going down an uncharted river in your own

[00:58:37] raft.

[00:58:38] But that's the thing with the Dolores.

[00:58:39] Like I went with a guide too.

[00:58:41] Um, but the, obviously the Dolores doesn't always run.

[00:58:44] So like the amount of practice that you can get on the Dolores is, uh, never certain.

[00:58:49] Yeah.

[00:58:50] So it's like, you know, to the guide, how many times have you done this?

[00:58:53] Oh, a couple of times.

[00:58:54] Yeah.

[00:58:56] Here we go.

[00:58:57] Our guide, our guide did tell us it was his first time guiding an actual group down and

[00:59:02] he'd been in training for several weeks.

[00:59:03] Yeah.

[00:59:04] When the conditions were even scarier.

[00:59:06] Right.

[00:59:06] Yeah.

[00:59:07] Um, yeah, he, he was like, we're like, how long you'd done this?

[00:59:10] He's like, Oh, this is actually my first day doing a guided trip.

[00:59:13] So we're just, so we're going to follow behind like the most experienced guide, which we

[00:59:17] pretty much did.

[00:59:18] And that helped a lot.

[00:59:19] Yeah.

[00:59:19] And I, I still don't know if he's serious or not.

[00:59:21] Like, I feel like that's probably the oldest joke that every guy says.

[00:59:24] Yeah.

[00:59:25] Oh, it's my first time.

[00:59:26] But it's like, you know, uh, either way.

[00:59:30] Uh, reminiscing about summer already.

[00:59:32] I know.

[00:59:33] Slightly colder.

[00:59:34] Slightly colder.

[00:59:35] Oh, uh, winter, you know?

[00:59:37] Um, yes.

[00:59:38] You're a winter guy.

[00:59:39] No, I actually, I bought a, yeah.

[00:59:41] I'm like, I, I used to be more so, uh, but since, uh, yeah, more of my, more of my,

[00:59:47] not too many of my friends have bought passes lately.

[00:59:50] Mm.

[00:59:51] Kind of dissuaded by some of the crowding and just the drive.

[00:59:54] I mean, we used to go up 30 plus days a year and yeah, now it's, now it's the last few

[00:59:59] years.

[00:59:59] I think I've gotten two ski days in, but I did buy an epic, uh, the summit value pass, I

[01:00:04] think is what it's called.

[01:00:05] Yeah.

[01:00:05] But it's Breckenridge and Keystone, uh, unlimited ski in there.

[01:00:09] Uh, minus like the few holidays that you don't want to go anyway.

[01:00:13] Right.

[01:00:13] Um, saved a few hundred bucks doing that instead of just the full local.

[01:00:16] Uh, we always, I mean, Breck's two hours from Colorado Springs.

[01:00:19] It's closest.

[01:00:19] Yeah.

[01:00:20] Or one of the closer and easiest spots.

[01:00:22] If you're looking for like the big mountain stuff, obviously Monarch's great too.

[01:00:27] But yeah, I mean, Monarch gets you that pass.

[01:00:29] You know, I like Monarch cause you get, you can get some days on Loveland, you know?

[01:00:33] Yeah.

[01:00:34] Well, and they do their migration with us too.

[01:00:36] Right.

[01:00:36] So like I'll probably do that this year.

[01:00:37] Uh, just if you have, I think any ski pass in the state, you can go to, go to Monarch

[01:00:42] and, uh, get a very discounted lift ticket.

[01:00:45] Probably.

[01:00:45] I think it's like 60 bucks or something like that.

[01:00:47] Um, and backside is taking shape.

[01:00:49] Is it?

[01:00:50] Yeah.

[01:00:50] Cause you were covering that recently.

[01:00:52] I just wrote about that recently.

[01:00:53] Yeah.

[01:00:53] Yeah.

[01:00:53] Monarch.

[01:00:54] I love their trees.

[01:00:57] Yeah.

[01:00:58] Like, uh, especially with the, uh, the beetle kill that they've taken out.

[01:01:02] Oh, has it?

[01:01:03] And just opened some stuff up a little bit more, just a little bit more and made it nice.

[01:01:07] Yeah.

[01:01:07] That's good.

[01:01:07] Yeah.

[01:01:08] What the tree sections, what the Mirkwood trees, I think?

[01:01:10] Yeah.

[01:01:11] And there's not, I think there's going to be nice trees down in no name basin too.

[01:01:14] Nice.

[01:01:15] Very cool.

[01:01:15] Spread people out a little bit.

[01:01:17] Yeah.

[01:01:17] Very cool.

[01:01:18] That's the thing.

[01:01:18] Monarch.

[01:01:19] I mean, it's just needed a little more variety, you know?

[01:01:21] Yeah.

[01:01:21] Yeah.

[01:01:22] I mean, it's no name might give them that.

[01:01:24] It does have like, there's, you know, never lift lines of Monarch really.

[01:01:27] It's nice to go up there and just be uncrowded.

[01:01:30] The little, I love that little bar they have there.

[01:01:32] Uh, yeah.

[01:01:33] Perfect for like a beer, you know, midday, a good lunch and yeah.

[01:01:37] Yeah.

[01:01:37] Very cool.

[01:01:38] But yeah, so I will be hitting slopes this winter.

[01:01:40] Um, maybe get into some more of the winter hiking stuff.

[01:01:42] I do like climbing some of the easier, the easiest 14ers on the winter.

[01:01:48] And it's very peaceful.

[01:01:49] There's no one out there.

[01:01:51] Um, the winter silence.

[01:01:53] Yeah.

[01:01:53] Winter is a coming.

[01:01:56] As they say, but enjoy fall while you got it, man.

[01:02:00] That's yeah.

[01:02:00] I love fall.

[01:02:01] Tail end of fall.

[01:02:02] Yeah.

[01:02:03] Um, yeah.

[01:02:03] I think a Wolf Creek is now open for skiing.

[01:02:06] They were the first to open this year.

[01:02:08] That's another.

[01:02:08] As we speak.

[01:02:09] I don't think a basins got going yet.

[01:02:11] Right?

[01:02:11] Yeah.

[01:02:11] I haven't seen an update from them, nor Keystone.

[01:02:14] I did see some little murmurs on Reddit where they were like, Oh, some of the cameras are

[01:02:18] down on a Keystone mountain.

[01:02:20] Uh, like it's like, I wonder if they're like about to make some sort of review.

[01:02:25] Yeah.

[01:02:25] Like, Oh, the slopes are covered cause they are making snow.

[01:02:27] A basin.

[01:02:28] Keystone still has yet to beat a basin.

[01:02:30] Uh, since they.

[01:02:32] That's a good question.

[01:02:33] Upgraded their snowmaking years ago.

[01:02:35] That's a good question.

[01:02:36] They can try and remember upgrading it too.

[01:02:39] Uh, yeah, I don't know.

[01:02:40] Yeah.

[01:02:40] This is like, you ever seen those?

[01:02:42] I think it's a snow guns man.

[01:02:43] They're like, they're like plane engines.

[01:02:46] Yeah.

[01:02:46] It's crazy.

[01:02:47] Yeah.

[01:02:47] And I think they like, again, this is totally wrong.

[01:02:50] We're probably going to get an email from Keystone on this, but I think they added

[01:02:53] like a hundred or something.

[01:02:54] Wow.

[01:02:55] I forget.

[01:02:56] I'm going to Google this real quick, but, uh, yeah.

[01:02:58] Um, yeah, but it was, it was a lot and they, they do keep ramping up their snowmaking,

[01:03:04] which is really does help them open early.

[01:03:06] Right on the heels.

[01:03:07] When a basin, you remember a basin left the right.

[01:03:12] Yeah.

[01:03:12] Well, they were included on the Epic pass.

[01:03:14] Okay.

[01:03:15] But, uh, 37 new snow guns.

[01:03:17] Here we go to the Bergen bowl.

[01:03:18] A little fewer than a hundred.

[01:03:20] A little fewer than a hundred.

[01:03:21] So fewer than a hundred.

[01:03:22] Sorry.

[01:03:22] Oh, that's nice up there.

[01:03:24] Um, yeah.

[01:03:25] Oh, wait, no, here we go.

[01:03:25] They just replaced 50 of their snow guns and that's 2019.

[01:03:29] So yeah, this one's 20, 23 added 37 more.

[01:03:33] So yeah.

[01:03:34] Yeah.

[01:03:34] So they got a lot of, a lot of snow guns, not a hundred plus new ones.

[01:03:37] You ever got out to, uh, the grand Mesa powder horn?

[01:03:41] No, I always wanted to.

[01:03:43] I've heard good things too.

[01:03:44] Yeah.

[01:03:45] Um, I mean, it's hard to go wrong skiing in Colorado.

[01:03:47] And Purgatory and Durango.

[01:03:49] Yeah.

[01:03:49] Also, well, Purgatory also does, they do like a dynamic ticket pricing thing.

[01:03:53] Right.

[01:03:54] So it's like some of their days, I think were like $7 a day or $9 a day.

[01:03:58] If it's, if no one's buying, it'll be cheap.

[01:03:59] If everyone's buying, it'll be expensive.

[01:04:01] Yeah.

[01:04:01] Yeah.

[01:04:02] And I don't know.

[01:04:02] They probably cap it.

[01:04:04] I would imagine maybe, I don't know.

[01:04:06] But, uh, yeah.

[01:04:06] But if you are looking for like dirt cheap days and are really unrestricted on

[01:04:10] I might have a shot there.

[01:04:11] Yeah.

[01:04:12] Like under 10 bucks.

[01:04:13] And Christian photo editor at the Gazette, Christian Murdoch was just in Durango raving

[01:04:18] about the hot springs.

[01:04:20] Oh yeah.

[01:04:20] That have really come along there.

[01:04:22] Yeah.

[01:04:22] And I think is that one just called the Durango hot springs?

[01:04:25] Yeah.

[01:04:25] You're looking it up, aren't you?

[01:04:26] Yeah.

[01:04:27] I'm looking.

[01:04:27] Yeah.

[01:04:27] Durango hot springs.

[01:04:28] Yeah.

[01:04:29] They'll probably start, they'll probably start like promoting or I'm sure they are like ski

[01:04:34] and soak.

[01:04:34] Right?

[01:04:35] Yeah.

[01:04:35] It's 15 miles.

[01:04:37] It's 15 miles south of Purgatory.

[01:04:38] Okay.

[01:04:38] Um, and Purgatory is a little bit north of Durango.

[01:04:41] So it's, uh, the hot springs themselves are eight miles north of Durango and then 15

[01:04:45] miles south of Purgatory.

[01:04:47] Okay.

[01:04:47] So right in the middle there.

[01:04:47] But yeah, the photos, I haven't been out there, but the photos, it looks like they're

[01:04:51] really, really come a long way there.

[01:04:52] Yeah.

[01:04:53] Yeah.

[01:04:53] That's on my list for sure.

[01:04:55] I've always wanted to stay at the, what's the old hotel there in Durango?

[01:04:58] The Stratter.

[01:05:00] I do not.

[01:05:01] The historic Stratter.

[01:05:02] Historic.

[01:05:03] With that, with the old timey saloon in there it looks like.

[01:05:06] Yeah.

[01:05:06] Stratter.

[01:05:07] Yeah.

[01:05:08] I always thought that looks cool.

[01:05:09] Here you go.

[01:05:09] Deal I'm looking at right now.

[01:05:10] $129 a night.

[01:05:12] Okay.

[01:05:12] Very reasonable.

[01:05:12] That's Stratter?

[01:05:13] Yeah.

[01:05:13] Very reasonable.

[01:05:15] $169 on Expedia.com.

[01:05:16] So.

[01:05:17] And then fees, another $150.

[01:05:19] Right.

[01:05:19] I don't know.

[01:05:20] I'm just kidding.

[01:05:23] I mean, circling back to concert tickets, that's the thing, man.

[01:05:27] You buy a concert ticket and then you pay double for the fees.

[01:05:30] Oh yeah.

[01:05:30] Yeah.

[01:05:31] The tickets for the show I went to last night were $22, but then it was $11 for fees.

[01:05:35] So it was like, and then plus tax.

[01:05:37] And then it being like $36 I think.

[01:05:39] Yeah.

[01:05:40] But.

[01:05:40] What else are you working on?

[01:05:41] What else am I working on?

[01:05:42] What's new?

[01:05:43] Not much lately.

[01:05:44] I've been pretty stuck in the headline news, so to speak.

[01:05:49] Yeah.

[01:05:50] I'm chasing the headlines.

[01:05:51] I will say it is, Halloween is right around the corner though.

[01:05:56] And we put out a little quick video about a movie that I watched, but I want to talk

[01:06:00] about it here very briefly.

[01:06:01] Just because it's like people are looking for spooky movies Halloween.

[01:06:05] Or around Halloween, right?

[01:06:07] So Black Phone starring Ethan Hawke.

[01:06:09] Oh, I'll never watch it.

[01:06:11] It looks.

[01:06:12] 88% on Rotten Tomatoes.

[01:06:13] I'm a wuss.

[01:06:13] I've heard good things.

[01:06:15] I'm just a wuss.

[01:06:16] I can't do those.

[01:06:18] Also.

[01:06:18] Real scary.

[01:06:19] You know what I'm saying?

[01:06:19] It's about, yeah, it's like child abduction serial killer vibe like this kid gets abducted.

[01:06:24] And this was set in the 70s.

[01:06:25] It's set in Denver suburbs too.

[01:06:27] Mm-hmm.

[01:06:28] And the director of it, I think it's Scott Derrickson, I want to say, is a Denver native,

[01:06:36] right?

[01:06:36] So he kind of pulled from his experiences in Denver to create this movie.

[01:06:42] And if you don't like scary movies, maybe not for you.

[01:06:45] If you don't like horror movies, maybe not for you.

[01:06:46] But if you are looking for a scary movie set in Colorado, I mean, it's good.

[01:06:52] Come on, just a couple years ago?

[01:06:53] A few years ago?

[01:06:55] 2021?

[01:06:57] 2021.

[01:06:57] 2021, I'll say.

[01:06:58] In the year of 2021.

[01:07:03] Ethan Hawke.

[01:07:04] Yeah, Ethan Hawke.

[01:07:05] Great actor.

[01:07:05] I'm a big fan of Ethan Hawke.

[01:07:07] Yeah, I mean, it's a good movie.

[01:07:08] And I would say it's more like, kind of like scary, but like drama suspense too.

[01:07:12] Like that's a big part of it.

[01:07:14] Yeah.

[01:07:15] So it's not like, you know, like there's a ghost in the closet type of thing.

[01:07:19] We watched the Babadook the other night.

[01:07:20] I've heard that's terrifying.

[01:07:21] Remember Babadook?

[01:07:22] I've heard that's terrifying.

[01:07:23] So if I could take Babadook, maybe I can take the Blackphone.

[01:07:25] Yeah.

[01:07:25] Yeah.

[01:07:25] I would imagine if you can take that one.

[01:07:28] You know, Babadook is, like Blackphone feels too real.

[01:07:34] You know what I mean?

[01:07:35] Yeah.

[01:07:35] Babadook.

[01:07:36] Hopefully I'm saying this and now Babadook's going to find me.

[01:07:39] You know?

[01:07:39] Right.

[01:07:40] Right.

[01:07:41] Right.

[01:07:41] Another, another scary movie, right?

[01:07:42] In Colorado.

[01:07:44] Uh huh.

[01:07:44] It wasn't actually filmed in Colorado, but it's totally set in Crested Butte, Gunnison area.

[01:07:49] If you're looking for something that's more action and not too real, Alien vs. Predator, Requiem.

[01:07:56] Right?

[01:07:56] That was filmed there?

[01:07:57] No, it wasn't filmed there.

[01:07:59] It was filmed in Canada, but set in Gunnison and Crested Butte.

[01:08:03] Are you serious?

[01:08:04] Yeah.

[01:08:04] Like they say that in the movie.

[01:08:05] Yeah.

[01:08:05] Yeah.

[01:08:06] I think it's like, like it says it at the beginning of the movie, I believe.

[01:08:09] Like the Predators live in Crested Butte and the aliens live in Gunnison.

[01:08:12] Right.

[01:08:13] Well, the funny thing that it was, I found kind of funny at least, uh, that it's filmed in

[01:08:17] a place where the mountain is so recognizable or not filmed in a place, set in a place

[01:08:22] and set in a terrain where the mountains are so recognizable.

[01:08:25] I mean, like Crested Butte is one of the most recognizable mountains in Colorado.

[01:08:30] Yep.

[01:08:30] For it to be filmed elsewhere.

[01:08:32] Um, and maybe they have some shots and I need to go back and watch it, but maybe they

[01:08:35] have some shots of Colorado in it, um, just to set the scene.

[01:08:40] But, uh, yeah, I mean, at least on the IMDB page, whenever we were trying to figure out

[01:08:45] where was it filmed?

[01:08:47] Uh, not in Colorado.

[01:08:48] What the heck?

[01:08:49] Yeah.

[01:08:50] Um, that spinoff of Predator movie, Prey, a couple of years ago, that was good.

[01:08:56] Oh, was it?

[01:08:56] I don't think I've seen that one.

[01:08:57] That was a good one.

[01:08:58] Yeah.

[01:08:59] Alien vs. Predator, uh, Requiem was 2007.

[01:09:03] So weird.

[01:09:04] Yeah.

[01:09:04] I mean, this Wikipedia page.

[01:09:07] So citing Wikipedia might not be, uh, the, uh, the best option, but, um, yeah, it says,

[01:09:15] uh, here we go.

[01:09:17] So Gunnison, Colorado.

[01:09:18] Yeah.

[01:09:18] Set in the forest outside of Gunnison, Colorado, the ship's hall, right?

[01:09:23] Probably.

[01:09:23] I guess the aliens in the, in this movie, uh, the ship's hall gets damaged due to massive

[01:09:29] firepower of plasma casters welded by the predators and the ship crashes in a forest outside

[01:09:34] of Gunnison, Colorado.

[01:09:36] Huh?

[01:09:37] So there you go.

[01:09:38] They probably should have done the San Luis Valley.

[01:09:41] Yeah.

[01:09:41] Right.

[01:09:42] That's where the aliens are.

[01:09:43] That's where the aliens are at.

[01:09:44] Um, where are the predators?

[01:09:46] If you're a predator in Colorado, you're in the San Juan mountains, right?

[01:09:50] Yeah, I guess.

[01:09:52] Yeah.

[01:09:52] Probably out there on Bigfoot.

[01:09:54] Probably.

[01:09:56] Predator, in my opinion, is like one of the most undeniably cool, uh, like sci-fi alien

[01:10:02] or extraterrestrial bad guys.

[01:10:05] Like that newish alien movie.

[01:10:07] I've heard good things about that.

[01:10:08] That looked nuts.

[01:10:11] Yeah.

[01:10:12] No, thanks.

[01:10:13] Yeah.

[01:10:13] Well, since we've gotten to the, uh, why do we keep talking about things that prevent

[01:10:16] us from eating lunch?

[01:10:18] I know.

[01:10:18] Right.

[01:10:18] And, and since we've gotten to the film review portion of the out there, Colorado

[01:10:22] podcast, it's probably time to wrap this up.

[01:10:26] We just go.

[01:10:27] I'm sure we're going to have people say no.

[01:10:28] What are your top three non Colorado movies that you love?

[01:10:32] Um, so that's what happens.

[01:10:33] You bring me on and there's, it's just madness.

[01:10:36] Yeah.

[01:10:37] There's no rhyme or reason.

[01:10:38] I like the madness.

[01:10:39] I think the audience will love it too.

[01:10:41] And if you do, maybe they fell asleep back at the Packer, uh, Packer story.

[01:10:46] Yeah.

[01:10:46] Hard to fall asleep though.

[01:10:47] I don't know.

[01:10:48] Um, yeah, we have talked about a lot this episode, but yeah, if you love it, if you

[01:10:52] hate it, uh, shoot us an email, let us know what you think at info out there, Colorado

[01:10:56] dot com.

[01:10:56] Uh, if you love it, leave us a review.

[01:10:59] We love those on Spotify and Apple.

[01:11:02] Um, but yeah, that's about all we got for you today.

[01:11:04] So, uh, yeah, once again, I'm Spencer McKee here with Seth Boster and, uh, we will

[01:11:11] been real.

[01:11:11] See you soon.

[01:11:12] See you next time.

[01:11:13] Keep getting out there, Colorado.

[01:11:14] Cool.

[01:11:15] Yeah.

[01:11:16] Yeah.