CO wolf killed in Wyoming; Colorado spot that 're-wrote human history'; 'Lost Canyon' developments; & More

[00:00:09] Welcome to the OutThere Colorado Podcast. Once again, it is Spencer and Seth here chatting with you from Colorado Springs. Hey guys. And we've got, once again, plenty of interesting Colorado topics to chat about today. First, pretty usual, you know, we always kind of chat about what we did over the weekend. I had some family and family friends in town, so we pretty much just did the Seven Bridges Trail in Colorado Springs, one that's, you know, well known by everyone that lives in Colorado Springs.

[00:00:39] Love it. But yeah, it runs alongside a creek. If you're looking for that, you know, that creek ambiance, the entire hike, you know, relatively simple hike. Especially on those hot summer days, always like getting up there in the shade and the creek fed. Of course, that's when it's really crowded. So it is good to go now. Yeah, yeah. Great to go now. Bring some traction still. It was a little icy. It wasn't muddy. But yeah, no, I mean, really a nice little pleasant day.

[00:01:06] Yeah. So no complaints there. They've done a lot of the, a lot of infrastructure repairs to the parking lot up there recently too. Now there's like, you know, it's paved and there's actual spaces.

[00:01:17] Yeah. Maybe a little bit more efficient. Yeah. If you haven't went, gosh, where'd they do that a couple of years ago or something? Yeah. If you haven't been up there in a few years. It's big changes. Yeah. Restrooms there now. I can't remember if those are there or not before sport bodies, but yeah, it was, it was packed though. We had to, we had to do a couple of laps to find a spot. So, you know, it was still packed. It's going to be packed in the summer. It's always packed.

[00:01:39] Yeah. I mean, if I don't get there before eight, I don't go there. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Same deal. I mean, you might luck out before eight, but yeah. Yeah. They're kind of, they're kind of cracking down on the parking too. Cause people used to, you'd see cars parked in absolutely ridiculous ways along the roads. Oh, like, yeah. Like how is that car even going to get out of this? Yeah.

[00:01:58] That there tends to be the case with trailheads, which again, we've talked about it before, I think, but a trailhead parking safe. It's definitely the, the right thing to do to park legally, because if you don't like all those parking plans are kind of set up with search and rescue in mind. Right. Which is a big dress in and out. Yeah. Yeah. So it can literally mean like a search and rescue situation takes longer because you, you parked illegally. Yeah. I always think about two.

[00:02:28] Uh, like I'm always hyper aware about parking my car along like grass, you know, like, yeah. Yeah. You know, for the fire risk. Yeah. Hot car. No one. It seems like no one knows about that risk either. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I thought to mention it. Yeah. Hot car parked on tall grass, like a recipe for starting fire. Definitely. Yeah. I'm always very hyper aware of, of that. Yeah. Seth probably had a more exciting weekend. I was going to say as great as your weekend sounds, mine really kicked yours. Yeah. Going out of, out of state. I don't know if I can say the A word on this podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:02:58] Going out of state. Um, to Vegas, Vegas, Vegas. Check out the coolest venue in the world right now. Probably. Yeah. All right, everybody. If you haven't been to the sphere, find a way to go. And I, and I say that because I realize there are cost barriers. Um, I had in, in my mind that like I was going to be paying, I'll just be real. I had it in my mind. I was going to be paying like 500, 700 dollars a ticket. That's like everything I'd heard. Right. For grateful dead. For the grateful dead. John Mayer.

[00:03:28] Yep. John Mayer taking up the role of Jerry Garcia. Rest in peace. And so anyway, I had this in mind that there's just no way I'm ever going to get to this sphere. Right. And Christmas is rolling around. I procrastinated as always. I need to find a good gift for my wife. And it just kind of popped in my head, man, what if we went to grateful dead at the sphere?

[00:03:46] So I just looked at tickets and Hey, I got, I got my ticket. I'm not doing this all the time. I'm not this kind of guy that spends this kind of money on tickets, but 180 bucks for, from everything I could tell was a good seat. Did it. And it was definitely an awesome seat. Yeah. And you were showing us some videos before we started recording today. And it's incredible.

[00:04:06] We're up at the, uh, so the top 400 level, kind of the lower top, I should say, um, of the 400 level goes floor 100, 200, 300, and 400. And it was just, yeah. Oh man. We were in space, man. We started, it started, the show started off by taking off from San Francisco, you know, the home of the dead.

[00:04:27] And it just floated from there into space. And you're just flying above the clouds. And you look to your right and the Milky Way is starting to shine around you. And three hours later, it, after a tour through, uh, seeing the pyramids in Egypt and going through, uh, several other planets and going to the bottom of the ocean. Uh, where else do we go? There was a little shout out to Red Rocks. They popped like Red Rocks amphitheater. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. Kind of touring around where all the dead have been over the decades. Nice.

[00:04:55] But three hours later, we like descended back into earth, you know, like earth just comes into, into view. And very cool. We, oh, it was anyway. Yeah. Podcast is not all about the sphere, but man, I, it could be. Yeah. For those, for those unfamiliar with the Vegas sphere too, it's the, it's the giant dome venue with all the, all the screens that just wrap around in this like truly unreal way, man. It's been on my bucket list. I'm happy you guys. Unreal. Unreal. And what you don't hear about the sound, the sound is great at every seat because it's like individualized sound. Oh, dang.

[00:05:25] So like the, the, the walls are coded as I came to learn later with speakers and there's clusters of speakers apparently that are oriented for every individual seat, like to beam at every individual seat. So your sound is great everywhere you sit. Yeah. That sounds incredible. Technological marvel for sure. Glad, glad you got to go. That sounds, that sounds incredible. Especially on Shakedown Street. Yeah. Yeah. For real. Well, hey, moving, moving from that venue to another cool venue and another cool area that's kind of popped up.

[00:05:55] Colorado Springs Gazette just came out with their first edition of the Colorado Living Quarterly Magazine. And Seth had a lot of content that was featured in there. One of which was how to spend a thousand dollars on the, and Seth did not spend a thousand dollars on this. This is something I probably could never do. Yeah. I go from spending money in Vegas and I, I'm not about to go spend this money on the north side of Colorado Springs.

[00:06:21] But we, we had the idea of like a fun feature about, I mean, just everything that is up there. So to orient people a little bit, we're, we're kind of talking Voyager and Interquest-ish, right? Yeah. This whole area in Colorado Springs has just been popping off in recent years. And the tie into the venue, right, is the Ford Amphitheater, which we've talked about on here before. I've been there, had a great experience. 10,000 person venue, roughly, I think. Yeah. Very cool stuff. But yeah. What else, what else you got, Seth? Yeah.

[00:06:51] Let's see. So I kind of had this idea of like, me and my editor were like, what if we did like an itinerary for like couples? Like, how could we, how could a couple do like a big, big day in this area? And then we kind of had this thought of breakfast and then Topgolf, of course. Of course. Topgolf. And then over, right around there is iFly, that indoor skydiving. Hop from Topgolf to skydiving.

[00:07:19] Grab a quick lunch at Heart of Jerusalem Cafe. Shout out. Yeah. I like it. You know, you got, we're on the move here. Yeah. We're filling up the day. So I got to do something quick. Pretty good. Yeah. And then right over there, Overdrive Raceway. I love Overdrive Raceway. Yeah. I've never been. Oh, I've been, I'm a member. All right. Are you? Yeah. Yeah. You pay 50 bucks a year. Uh-huh. And then you can do $15 races, which like the normal pack, I think is like 70 bucks for three races. A single race, I think it's 27. Yeah.

[00:07:49] Yeah. So you get, you get very, you basically go twice and then you've already paid for your membership. Okay. But man, those go-karts are an absolute blast. Electric go-karts. Electric go-karts. They go like up to 45, I think. Yeah. You wear a helmet while you're racing. Two levels. It's so fun. And yeah, you get a little printout at the end of how you performed and how you performed against all your buddies that you're racing with. All right. And it tracks you over time. So like you can see if you're improving or how you're doing. Oh man, I cannot say.

[00:08:18] It sounds like I got to go with you, man, because you're a pro. The interesting thing too is there's a full bar. Right. And restaurant. Yeah. On the top level, which is where the faster carts are. So it's kind of like a more adult focused floor of this, of this, uh, this spot. But yeah. Yeah. You can get a beer. When it, when it opened in 2016, it apparently claimed to be the nation's first two-story, two-track indoor facility for electric go-karts. Dang. Yeah. So one of a kind when it opened. That's cool. If you're in the Springs, check it out.

[00:08:47] So from there, and then it's time to fly again, cross the interstate over to the Air Force Academy to the brand new, first year anyway, uh, Hotel Polaris, which recently gained big, uh, big kudos. Did you see it got the, uh, triple A force? What is that? Four diamond? Yeah. I saw, I saw the award that it got. You're going to have to tell me more about Polaris because I have not really. So it's gorgeous. Yeah. There's like a few cocktail bars with, with views of the mountains right there.

[00:09:15] If, you know, if you've driven by Air Force Academy, you know what kind of views that are, but yeah. You know, up high in the hotel. Um, and then there's a flight simulator. Oh, really? Where you can, uh, you can fly a 737 into any, uh, airport around the country. Dang. That's kind of cool. Or you can, and, or you can join a, uh, a dog fight in an F-16. That's sweet. Yeah. Is that, I mean, I would get sick immediately. Every time I do one of those, the VR headset. So that just get your cocktail set you right.

[00:09:43] And then hop in the, hop in the flight simulator. That's not sweet. So do you, is that like a, what's the cost of the flight simulator? So, I mean, there's costs with all these, like I said, we're talking like a thousand bucks in a full day. Yeah. Right. Where, where are we at? Across all, across all these activities. We're late afternoon by the time we get to the flight simulator. So let's see. Options vary starting at $70 for a half hour in the single seat F-16 for $180. The two of you can sit side by side for a 737. Oh, that's romantic. So you got, yeah.

[00:10:14] You got a couple options there. And then, yeah, the cocktail bars are the Aviator or the Thunderbird. And they're really pretty. You can get like small bites, you know. Nice. So, um, and then from there, I got dinner at Bourbon Brothers. Yeah. Good place. Yeah. People love, people love Bourbon Brothers. Yeah. You can load up there. And then it all, of course, ends at a show at, at a Ford Amphitheater. There you go. And I mean, what? You're not driving a mile. Not even close. Not even close. This is all within. All these places. Yeah. Like, yeah.

[00:10:44] Like, yeah. Within the same square mile, I would imagine. Yeah. Very cool stuff. It's crazy up there. And it's expanding. You just mentioned there's more stuff coming. Yeah. Yeah. So a couple of the other things that are up there. There's obviously Bass Pro Shops is up there. I think a lot of people park there for the amphitheater as well. They were doing something. And that, that's kind of just the entertaining store to look around in, you know?

[00:11:09] Another cool thing is back in, so I don't have an update on this one, but back in 2024, Gazette's Rich Layden was reporting on an indoor water surfing facility that was eyeing that area, which would literally, it's like a two-story, 1,200-square-foot recreation center was kind of what was in the works. And it would have ocean waves for riders to surf on. So you'd be able to surf up there, which I mean, that's wild.

[00:11:38] Which, like, that's what this area is. It's just like anything you can imagine these days. Yeah. I mean, it is there. There's a little shooting range up there. I was going to say. Magnum is up there. We didn't even mention the trampoline park. Oh, yeah? Air City. Yeah. There's a Airsoft. It's either Airsoft or... Dart Wars. Dart Wars. Yeah, there you go. Dart Wars. Nerf Blaster War Zone. Got the Great Wolf Lodge. Yeah. Water quest. Full-blown water park. Huge water park. I mean, you talk about a family staycation, right? You can also do a day pass to the water park.

[00:12:10] Yeah, then main event, right? That bowling alley and virtual reality. And I mean... Yeah. There's a lot. That's just stuff beyond my itinerary. But you can build your own. We got to build your own itinerary up. So in the thousand bucks for the stuff that you mentioned, is that between two people or per person? Between two people? Between two people. And you better... You know, I mean... Breakfast, Topgolf, iFly, quick lunch,

[00:12:37] overdrive raceway, hotel Polaris for the flight simulators, dinner at Bourbon Brothers, and then amphitheater. Dang. That's a packed day. You're moving. You're moving. I mean, if you maybe have to skip a vacation, you know, this year and you're still wanting a special day. Staycation. Yeah, staycation. Yeah. Yeah. Especially if you got kids, you know, make base at the Great Wolf Lodge maybe, right? Yeah. Yeah. Very good things. Or Hotel Polaris. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool stuff. Kind of crazy. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[00:13:06] Let's... Here's something I wanted to talk about. So this happened last week. Yep. Happened after we recorded our podcast last week, though. So we didn't get a chance to talk about it. So it's kind of a contentious topic in general, but a wolf was killed in Wyoming. Did you see that news? Yeah. So basically what happened... But I didn't read too much into it because I was in Vegas. Oh, yeah. True. There you go. Right? That did happen after I was in Vegas. I think it was... I want to say the news broke last Thursday. I was gone. Yeah.

[00:13:36] So yeah, fill me in. But yeah, so pretty much what happened, it was one of these wolves that was reintroduced back in January, right, in that Pitkin-Eagle County area range. There were 15 wolves that were reintroduced. One of those wolves actually went north into Wyoming, which Wyoming is a dangerous place for your wolf. The rules around killing wolves in Wyoming, pretty lax. I think like 85% of the state, you're allowed to kill wolves.

[00:14:06] They're almost treated like a coyote in a sense, where I don't even know if you... I don't even think you have to have a tag. Don't quote me on that. But I'm pretty sure it's kind of like they're viewed as almost like vermin in a sense, where it's like they... Yeah. That's just differences across state lines, you know? No rules on like... I mean, here it's... What is it? If you're protecting property, i.e., right? Yeah. Yeah. You can... If you're protecting human life, property, maybe...

[00:14:31] I think they changed it to include the life of a pet as well in Colorado. But otherwise, it's extremely protected in Colorado. Like you're looking at federal... Right. Offenses. Again, don't quote me on it. I am not a lawyer. But it is something where you're heavy fines. Oh, yeah. In Colorado, for sure. Getting locked away. I just came by that the other day. Yeah. Yeah. But either way, this wolf went up into north, north-central Wyoming. Once it was there, it was blamed for killing five sheep.

[00:15:02] The federal agency, I believe it was the Department of Wildlife or Agriculture. It was the Department of Agriculture. Started a wolf or a mitigation project to protect this livestock in the area, which involved shooting and killing this wolf. Yeah. So once the wolf was dead, they find the Colorado Parks and Wildlife collar on it, which is tracking its movements and its living status, you know, or whether or not it's alive.

[00:15:32] And yeah, Colorado Parks and Wildlife got the ping that it was dead. And it turns out it was at the hands of a federal project, essentially. So yeah, I mean, interesting stuff just how, like, kind of as the conversation about wolf reintroduction continues, just how that varies from state to state and how that might impact kind of the effectiveness and success of the project. Right. Yeah.

[00:15:59] And I think, if I remember correctly, it's in Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, that there's kind of a deal that's set up where if they find one of our wolves in their state, they'll capture it and bring it back to Colorado. Or we'll bring it back, maybe. I don't know how that works. But either way, there's kind of this policy in place where they're supposed to, you know, not kill these wolves if they cross state lines. Whereas in Wyoming, I mean, a wolf loses a lot of, like, almost all of its protection the second it steps into Wyoming. Yeah.

[00:16:28] And we were talking about that a while back where there were some people that were said to be, like, baiting wolves even across the border or trying to attract wolves by using electronic calls. Wow. And then once they're in Wyoming, killing the wolf. So yeah. Interesting update there. Yeah. There's a new story about... There's a new story in the wolf saga seemingly every week, man. Yeah. Yeah. And we've kind of pulled back on cover in a little bit just because it is kind of one of those things where we could sit here and talk about it for hours. Yeah.

[00:16:58] I mean, really, the only other updates, though, at least, and there should be a new map coming out this week that shows where wolves are at. They do that monthly? Yeah. Monthly. It's the last week of the month. But I mean, some of the recent stuff there was since this reintroduction. They have moved south quite a bit. Obviously, some of those wolves were reintroduced. Picking County, it's right. It's entirely south of I-70. So if I-70 was serving as any sort of natural barrier or man-made barrier, but any sort of

[00:17:25] barrier to kind of keep wolves in a certain area, that's no longer the case. Yeah. There were some wolves that were detected in the watersheds of Teller County recently, last month's release. So that's, I mean, that butts up against El Paso County, which is, I believe, still the most populated county in the state with Colorado Springs being its main city there. So pretty interesting stuff. Easy to imagine over there at Lost Creek Wilderness. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

[00:17:54] A lot of wild places in the Pikes Peak range. They're really untouched by development. And I mean, we were talking about that a bit a few weeks ago, just where like, you know, Pikes Peak and how the Forest Service might start to maybe develop a little bit more. But I mean, a lot of the area around the Pikes Peak, you know, Pikes Peak, just National Forest or Pike National Forest, and then just Pikes Peak in general, like it's, there aren't a lot of trails that cut through, you know? Right. So pretty wild.

[00:18:21] You're talking that concept involving Colorado Parks and Wildlife to take over more like recreation. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. That's very interesting. I'm curious to kind of follow that over the years. Don't call it Pikes Peak State Park, but yeah, there's a lot of interesting conversation out there about how can we maybe expand and manage recreation in a reasonable way across Pikes Peak

[00:18:47] where a lot of people see a lot of mismanagement or, you know, an impossibility to manage under the Forest Service with their constraints. Mm-hmm. And there's, people see a lot of opportunity to, you know, to expand recreation possibilities and maybe CPW can do that. Yeah. Anyway, we're getting off topic. Oh, well, no, yeah. That's pretty interesting. It's true though, because I mean, I think a lot of people do tend to view, like, you know, we're right, Pikes Peak is right by Colorado Springs.

[00:19:12] So people probably tend to view it as just super developed, you know, trails everywhere, people everywhere. I'd venture to say a lot of people kind of keep going west. Right. Yeah. Whenever they head to the mountains from Colorado Springs. And just because it's like a lot of those areas that are even developed a little bit, you know, it's not quite developed to the level. The backside of Pikes Peak is pretty wide open, man. Yeah. Yeah. It really is. And just all that area, like Cripple Creek area. Right. There's so many trails that could cut through different places. Yeah. Easy to imagine.

[00:19:40] That South Slope Recreation Area on the backside there, kind of on Forest Service, it's a bear getting back there. But that chain of lakes overseen by Colorado Springs Utilities, you know, gated, protected for over 100 years in the city's history. And then I think they opened it up to very limited public access on like weekends during summer months, strict hours, like you got to move.

[00:20:08] But that's really, that's a beautiful, beautiful area where I've always thought, like, man, you know, if that management could be, if that watershed could be protected while opening up some public access more back there, I think that, you know. Be a popular spot. Yeah. I mean, it's out there. It's out there. A loved spot. Yeah. A beloved spot. Yeah. Potential. Put it that way. But yeah. Yeah. Very cool. A bad country man. But yeah.

[00:20:37] So anyways, that's some wolf news for you. Yeah. Kind of an update. It's been a few weeks since we've said anything, probably since they were reintroduced. But yeah, a little bit of an update there. Seth, you had something that I thought was really interesting. And the way you worded it was really interesting. Looking at a natural space that, and I want to get this right here. Yeah. Soapstone, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. Go from talking wolf.

[00:21:07] You say it rewrote human history. Yeah. I can explain that. Which is just like a wild thing to think about. I thought you'd be into that phrase. Yeah, yeah. I love it. Yeah. So let's hear about soapstone. So we go from wolves to bison pretty much here. So soapstone prairie natural area overseen by Fort Collins natural areas. So you naturally think, oh, close to Fort Collins. Closer to the Wyoming border. More north. Yeah. Way more north of Fort Collins.

[00:21:31] And it just opened for its season from March through, oh, does it go through November? Yeah. March through November when it's open for hiking and biking and horseback riding. And we're talking, it's like 40 plus miles of a vast trail system that explores that prairie area and the namesake soapstone rock formations back in there. Dang. Yeah. This spans 19,000 acres. Yeah. 20 square miles.

[00:22:01] Yeah. Largest natural area owned by Fort Collins by a long shot. And then it backs up against Red Mountain open space, which is Laramie County, Larimer County, sorry, Larimer County land. And it's like more rugged canyons, mountains. So like think of like a true prairie to foothills experience. Dang. If you're willing to put in the miles, for sure. Yeah. That sounds awesome.

[00:22:30] But yeah, the reason, you know, there's a lot of, it's funny, I was talking to a person with Fort Collins who said, we like to say soapstone will blow you away. Right. And there's several reasons for that that I can get into between bison herd that's out there, potential for viewing if you're lucky. There's a major archeological site, a word I can never say that, yeah, helped rewrite human history. What we understand about human history that you can look at and oversee.

[00:23:01] Black footed ferrets have been reintroduced out there. So blows you away for those reasons. And also for the wind. It's very windy. It does get windy out there. So fair warning. Covered it many times. And on the topic of fair warning, you know, this woman with Fort Collins I talked to would probably also add that, I mean, you go back there and you really need to be thinking about like, as much as you might be thinking prairie and openness like that, and it is, but you

[00:23:29] got to be thinking like remote wilderness. I mean, because it's, again, you could be on those trails for a long time. The weather can change drastically. Cell service is kind of spotty. Especially if you're going into Red Mountain open space, I mean, go prepared. This is all to say, right? And all those things entailed with going prepared. But yeah, so bison, going back 10 years, starting with that, kind of this interesting

[00:23:57] conservation initiative that's blossomed or so over the past decade. You know, a lot of people might not realize like the, what I'll call the flagship historic bison herd that we've known across the West, right? That dominated the West before westward expansion. You know, it's thought that that original herd, that genetic herd, like maintains less than 1% of their historic range.

[00:24:25] And where they have majorly been confined to, and I do use that word intentionally, is Yellowstone. Like that herd that we knew all across the Western states, that Rome, the prairie, as far as the eye could see before westward expansion, has really been dwindled down just to Yellowstone. And they have been kept there. There's been a lot of attention to them not expanding because they carry disease.

[00:24:54] Can't remember the name of this disease. But there's been concern about it spreading to cattle and maybe wrecking ecosystems, you know? So there's been a careful watch on that herd staying mostly in Yellowstone, that historic flagship herd. But over the years, in the case of soapstone prairie, a researcher from Colorado State University developed a way of artificial insemination and also a process of cleaning that genetic material

[00:25:22] out of Yellowstone to essentially get rid of that disease, to ensure that, you know, calves being born into this genetic species could be protected against that disease. So soapstone was really a ground to grow that herd farther. So 10 years later, I'm told like the herd is around like 30-ish or something like that. And they've been spread out, right? So a lot of these bison have been taken from soapstone to expand ranges across the west.

[00:25:52] But yeah, kind of interesting that, you know, this place that we might overlook way north. Yeah, man. Is it ground for that? I would love to see more bison around it. Like that's, they're such a cool animal. And it's the iconic prairie right now. Yeah, right? It's just like so iconic. Yeah. Yeah. So and then the mention of human history. So there's a site there and it's real accessible. It's on like a short paved path from the parking lot to this, what's referred to as the Lindenmeyer site.

[00:26:18] And that's the name of the rancher, the ranching family that was there in the 30s when this area was excavated. And mind you, this was not too long after the Folsom Point discovery in Folsom, New Mexico, that hinted at human presence in the Americas being here like thousands of years earlier than historians and scientists thought previously.

[00:26:47] Well, a few years after that, the site here at Soapstone, as we know it now, was excavated to really confirm that like an abundance of artifacts was found, including one of those points in a, in the vertebrae of like a massive extinct bison, which confirmed, yes, this is a point that was hunting. People were here. Here's beads. Here's other stuff around campsites.

[00:27:13] So really helped confirm that like human life in the Americas was here like 12,000 years ago, like way earlier than thought. So kind of, kind of, you know, when you're looking out at that, just to think about, you know, our earliest ancestors were like on the same spot, you know? Yeah, that's wild. 12,000 years ago too. Yeah. That's, I mean, that's one of those things too, where that does kind of blow up a lot of the, the archaeological theories, you know? Yeah. That you, that you would have heard in the past. Yeah. Dang.

[00:27:41] So anyway, kind of a neat little, neat little spot. And for, there's a good, or they say there, there was at least determined to be a suitable prairie dog habitat for the larger, broader black-footed ferret recovery effort. Right. Kind of a similar story. Black-footed ferrets once, you know, abundant in the West, those numbers have, have gone down and there's been efforts for years to try to bump up that population. Soapstone is another place for them. Yeah.

[00:28:10] And we've chatted about that a little bit, but they thought they were extinct for a while, right? Right. And then they like, yeah. And then the 80s, they like found a, found a group of them. There's only still like a few hundred in the wild. Right. Also. Yeah. Yeah. That, that recovery effort is, has struggled. And Colorado Parks and Wildlife has been at the forefront of really doing a lot of this work to bring them back. And it seems like they've had some successes lately, but yeah. And for those not familiar with the species of the black-footed ferret, the reason the

[00:28:37] prairie dogs are so important is because they eat like, they need prairie dogs. Yeah. They eat like three a week or something wild like that. Like it's, they are constantly hunting for prairie dogs. So. They're feisty animals, man. A very vicious predator. Yeah. Just tiny, thankfully. So there's soapstone prairie for you. Like I said, I mean, there's handy maps on, um, online that you can find. And if you venture out there, you know, go in knowing, you know, you, you could get, uh, hit hard by the sun.

[00:29:06] You could get hit hard by storms. You could get hit hard by wind. Um, and if you go on the trails long enough, you could be out there for a while. So yeah, go prepared. No guarantees of bison. Bring binoculars. Um, vast area for 30 something bison, as they say. So yeah. Do not approach the bison. No way. No. And definitely go to the tour-ons of national parks, Instagram. To just see why you should not, uh, approach bison. They will toss you. Yep. And definitely don't approach, uh, black-footed ferrets.

[00:29:36] They'll destroy you. Like a swarm of piranhas. It's coming up from the prairie dog holes. Yeah. You think they like black, you think they like, uh, prairie dogs. Wait till they see you. Yeah. Ooh. Anyway, there's soapstone. Well, hey, let's go to another, uh, natural space that I was interested to hear about too. Um, usually before we do these podcasts, you know, Seth will throw me his, throw me his ideas for the day. And, uh. Empty my brain. They always, yeah, they always, I always have a few at least, if not all of them.

[00:30:05] You know, they could really catch my eye. And this one was something I wanted to hear more about. This Castle Rock open space. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Lost Canyon. Very big, uh, development, I guess, you know. Yep. Just kind of, um, looking at this very cool and unique spot in Colorado too. So, yeah. What do you, what do you got for us on that? Lost Canyon. Doesn't it sound epic? Like, doesn't it sound like what? It does, right? Yeah. There's a Lost Canyon between Colorado Springs and Denver. It does. And the photos look awesome too.

[00:30:33] Best way of orienting you, if you're at all familiar, folks, is going to be Castlewood Canyon State Park. Right? So, mostly associated with Franktown. You know, again, east of Castle Rock there. You're on the plains and all of a sudden this rocky canyon emerges. Essentially, Lost Canyon is an extension of that mosaic. Like, it runs up close to that mosaic. Much closer. I mean, it's crazy. I did visit. I got, um, just a sneak peek tour of sorts.

[00:30:59] And, um, it's kind of crazy to think, like, you can be in Castle Rock, downtown Castle Rock amid all those apartments flying up all over the place. And then you can be in Lost Canyon in, like, less than 10 minutes. And it is a very wild, tall forest, um, you know, um, rocky cliffs, uh, creek cut riparian areas. On the top, it's like a grassy mesa. It is a really cool place. Yeah.

[00:31:27] And the photos look beautiful of it too. We got some photos online. Um, yeah, 681 acres. Again, kind of just sprawling there southeast of Castle Rock, downtown Castle Rock essentially. On the southeast edge of town, more or less. And, um, Castle Rock came into ownership, I think it was last year, in this big deal that got brokered by the conservation fund and money coming from other, um. Yeah, I'm seeing a report from July 2024. Yeah.

[00:31:57] That might have been when I was there too. Um, so anyway, now they're finally, they're in the process of, all right, what's, what's public access going to look like? How are people going to get to know this place in the future? And so they recently, um, presented some concepts for a trail system, like a stack loop trail system, exploring all of this amazing natural, um, all these, like I said, rocks, I mean, prairie, tall, ponderosa pine, Douglas fir forest. You really can get it all.

[00:32:27] Um, and it's like gonna, they're imagining like a stack loop trail system that might be around like 15 miles. Um, very notably right now they're envisioning hiking only. Hmm. So that's kind of gonna, I have a feeling there's going to be some more talk about that. Um, kind of treating it like a wilderness. Very much so. Very much so. Yeah, very much so.

[00:32:50] And I mean, talk about right there, um, between major front range populations, growing popularity and mountain biking. Um, I don't know. It kind of struck me as, I think there's been a lot of, as I've kind of looked around plans like this around the front range and big ideas for recreation, like that tug and pull of recreation and conservation that we were talking about the other day. I think there's maybe another flashpoint here at lost Canyon where, you know, land management is thinking our balance is going to look like this.

[00:33:19] Our balance is going to look like hiking only. Well, yeah, we were talking about the mad rabbit trails last week. Uh, you know, similar idea of like how, how much do you develop? Who do you allow to use the trails once they are developed? And there they're thinking mountain biking is, is also a big priority there as well. And yeah, I mean, even just the general e-bike conversation, you know, I think that's something where, like you said, a lot more people are biking. And it's like, it's because, or at least I would imagine that a factor is just that e-bikes make it so much more accessible. The growing accessibility.

[00:33:49] Yeah. Yeah. He mentioned that. I mean, and carefully, he, I say the assistant director who's kind of of the parks department, who's overseeing the plan. And, um, he carefully explained like, yeah, we see this as the best way to provide access while preserving, you know, wildlife habitat, um, the broader ecology.

[00:34:09] But yeah, I mean, he, he mentioned along the lines of, you know, mountain bikes have their place and we have plenty of places around Castle Rock and, you know, now we're seeing e-bikes and we just, we just feel like this isn't the place to, to see a bunch of bikes, you know, essentially. So I think there's going to be a lot more discussion about that. I would anticipate. Um, this is very early days. These are just concepts. They're not even documented yet in the broader master plan that has to go to Douglas Land Conservancy and Castle Rock's town council.

[00:34:39] Um, but there could be guided, uh, sneak peek tours this summer. Keep an eye on Castle Rock Parks and Trails Foundation. They'd be the one running that. Very cool. Yeah. It's an amazing space. Beautiful. Yeah. The photos, the photos look incredible too. It's just right there, man. I mean, you're driving on Interstate 25 and you look east and that's just looming out there, you know, off, off the highway. Dang. And when you're inside of the space, does it feel like, do you feel like you're close to civilization or what's that like?

[00:35:08] Well, well, that's also a striking thing about it because if you do look beyond the rims of the canyon, I mean, you do see these massive skyscrapers. Yeah. These like massive, like McMansions, you know, on either, you know, backed up against it. And it kind of occurs to you like, that's what could have happened here. It could have just kept coming in. Oh, dang. Can you see Denver? I was thinking you were going to say you'd see Denver from there. I don't think I could see Denver. Yeah. No. At least from the vantage points I had. All right. Well, yeah. Very wild space. Yeah. I'm going to have to get on one of those tours.

[00:35:38] Yeah. I'll be curious to check it out. Well, also on the note of e-bikes, I'm going to bring it back to Colorado Springs. Yeah. I had an interview with the people from Pike Ride the other last week and thought it was really interesting because they were talking about how they're a nonprofit. I had no clue they were a nonprofit, right? Like I, you know, assumed it was for profit.

[00:35:59] But talking about that and then also a big part of the conversation dealt with e-bikes and the amount of accessibility that that can bring to a community. Like they were sharing stories about how they have two different, so they have two different low income programs. One of which is a leasing program where someone can rent a bike from them and take it home with them and then have an e-bike to use whenever they need any sort of transportation.

[00:36:26] They also have like a day use program where you can, which I believe is in partnership with the Springs Rescue Mission, where you can kind of get a bike for the day. So it was something where I was interested in covering it just because I don't know if a lot of people know about that and those programs that they offer just because it's like, you know, everything's expensive nowadays and cars are expensive. And I think they are seeing a lot of people kind of turn to e-bikes and their e-bikes specifically, which, you know, they maintain and everything. Mm-hmm.

[00:36:56] Mm-hmm. Um, as a, uh, as an alternative that's more affordable than, I mean, you're outside, you know, you're on the trail. Yeah. Yeah. Some of the costs for renting the bikes too, just for anyone who's using them right, they're subsidized by the nonprofits, uh, relatively cheap. But yeah, either way, I mean, you see them around town and I think, uh, people kind of overlook them in Colorado Springs as a mode of transportation. But I mean, I'm pretty sure you can get all the way to Manitou Springs from downtown on them. Yeah. Yeah. So kind of interesting. It's a fun ride too. Yeah.

[00:37:25] It brings up the topic of micromobility too. Like I think when people think that, I think, you know, like the Lime scooters that, or whatever scooter company's scooters that tend to be, you know, kind of scattered around. Um, whereas all these are found at hubs, like you have to park it at a hub, uh, unless you're taking advantage of the leasing program. But, um, yeah, so kind of an interesting thing. They shared a couple of stories with me too, where, uh, there were two different stories.

[00:37:50] And in both cases, people were, uh, either unhoused or on the brink of losing their house and, uh, were able to save costs and keep employment because these bikes were around and they were able to do that. So cool. Kind of an interesting, like micromobility thing going on in the Springs. That's great. I wanted to give them a shout out. Yeah. Cause I've used it a few times. I like it. Yeah. I got, I hopped on and just rode around through, uh, we were just around downtown and like, let's go get some fresh air through Monument Valley. Yeah. Park right there.

[00:38:18] You know, pretty much the greenway park and around downtown Colorado Springs. Yeah. Nice little way to get around. Yeah. Good way to get wind in the face. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They were saying is they were talking about why people use them and obviously like a faster way to just get downtown instead of walking maybe, you know. But one of the groups, or maybe you're like a tourist coming in, you want to do like a day rental. But one of the groups of people were just, yeah, locals that want some fresh air and don't want to buy their own e-bike, which I mean makes sense when you look at the price of a lot of e-bikes.

[00:38:48] So, yeah, kind of a cool thing. That's definitely cool to think about too. Like if you're downtown, I've never thought about that. Like, yeah, you can just hop on one of those and get to Manitou. Yeah. And you think about how bad parking is in a lot of places. I don't want to say bad, but how limited parking is in a lot of places in Colorado Springs, on a busy day especially. Yeah, it definitely makes the micro-mobility pretty appealing for just getting around. But, yeah, you got anything else on your list for today, Seth? I think I'm good. Yeah, I think we're good.

[00:39:17] I think we've overloaded people again. Overloaded. Unless we want to talk about ski pass fraud. Up to you, man. Yeah, I'll mention it. So this is kind of interesting because this pops up like once a year, we'll say. And somewhere in the country, there's a ski resort dealing with ski pass fraud, which obviously could come in the form of maybe like someone printing off their own pass or something like that and trying to get that to work. But it usually is the form of somebody using someone else's pass

[00:39:45] and trying to pass it off on their own, right? A friend will have a $700 ski pass for the year. A friend that looks vaguely similar is going to be like, yo, can I borrow you a ski pass for a day? Yep. But the reason I wanted to mention it is because the consequences can be very severe. And I think a lot of people don't realize that. So much so that out in the Lake Tahoe area in California, they've apparently partnered with local law enforcement to start bringing cops

[00:40:13] to the actual scanner area at the bottom of the lift, where they'll just be like a cop standing there and making sure everyone's using the pass they should be using, I guess. And I don't think they're too invasive in that process. But really trying to drive the point home now, apparently, that people can't be doing this. Yeah, kind of like Costco these days, man. I'm walking into Costco and you got to scan my card. Yeah, I'm in line. Is this you? There's a picture on the back of the card. Yeah, right.

[00:40:41] Well, and the thing is, too, the more I was digging into this, it's pretty crazy because resorts, they might use, like once they have someone going through a gate on a pass, there were some murmurs online about how they'll know how tall that person is. And then if someone else is using that pass that isn't the same height, all of a sudden they're like, hmm, that's a – because, you know, it's hard to tell what someone looks like when they're in all their gear. Yeah.

[00:41:07] But apparently the technology is there to like really detect this pretty accurately. Wow. Creepy. So I laugh about Costco, but this is serious. We're talking cops at Tahoe. Cops at Tahoe. Are we talking like identity theft? What are they getting people for? So it's theft. Yeah. It's just like straight up shoplifting. Yeah, wow. And when you look at the price of these passes, though, right, because a lot of these, like when you get charged with shoplifting, if you steal $10 worth of stuff versus $1,000 worth of stuff, the penalties are different. Yeah. And that varies everywhere you're at.

[00:41:37] So don't quote me on that. But it does get more severe as the price goes up. So it's like, you know, if you're caught stealing, like Icon Pass this year is $1,300. Serious? That pushes you into some pretty wild range. And like we dealt with this topic in Colorado. It was back in 2022, which through this report was through March 8th. Vail Police Department was dealing with a major ski pass fraud issue on the local mountain there.

[00:42:07] And they said 31 people had been cited for it through March 8th. And at the time, the penalty for that in Colorado was a fine of up to $999 and a potential for up to 180 days in jail. Boy. So like you could, you know. Could have paid your own pass. Yeah. Yeah. And spent time out of jail. It's the most ideal scenario. But yeah, I mean, hey, that's, you know, it's like someone asked their buddy to use their pass.

[00:42:37] And like you could be facing six months in jail. That's pretty wild. So something where when it comes up, I like to cover it just, yeah, because it's, you know, it is theft. And something that I think a lot of people kind of underestimate the potential consequences for. So can't ski in jail. Nice. Yeah. I mean, I think that's all we got for you today. Always good. I hope you have found this show interesting.

[00:43:03] We'll be back next week with some more Colorado content for you. Before we head out, I'm Spencer. I will chat with you later. I'm Seth. See you out there. See you out there.