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[00:00:00] Welcome to the OutThere Colorado Podcast. I'm Spencer McKee and today I am here once again with Sam. Hey. And today we've got some pretty interesting somewhat a few of them are kind of contentious topics to discuss. So yeah, should be a pretty interesting little chat today. Yeah, so let's just get into it, I guess. One of the stories that I've been wanting to cover for a while finally covered it this week.
[00:00:29] dealt with how the Breckenridge name came to be. Kind of still a little bit of a hot debate around this just as things lost to time tend to be, you know, it's like history so it's like there's always different stories of how things happened. But basically back in 1859, the city of Breckenridge, or the town at the time maybe city, whatever you want to call it, Breckenridge was founded. It was named after at least most of the science points.
[00:00:59] It was named after Thomas Breckenridge, who was a prospector, one of the first prospectors in that area. I think there's another mountain pass named after him. So it seems like signs point to it being named after him. Founder of the town was a person called George E. Spencer. No relation with Spencer name.
[00:01:21] But it's always funny whenever I see Spencer in historical context. Feels like such a name from the 90s, but apparently also a name from the 1800s as well.
[00:01:32] Wow. It does feel like a 90s name.
[00:01:35] Yeah, right. Every Spencer you hear about. Like Spencer Pratt, right? Wasn't he someone from like the 2000s era?
[00:01:47] Yeah.
[00:01:47] One of the notorious 2000s reality TV show jerks, I think, or something like that.
[00:01:53] Oh, yeah.
[00:01:54] He was dating somebody, like Paris Hilton or something. I don't know.
[00:01:57] Wow.
[00:01:58] I don't follow pop culture.
[00:02:00] I think you're more in tune with past famous people named Spencer than I am. I'll give you that.
[00:02:07] Fair enough. Well, back to Colorado, though. This guy, Georgie Spencer, he actually went on to become an officer fighting for the Union and the Civil War, which is actually relevant to the story.
[00:02:18] He founds this town Breckenridge. And in the early days, right, like it's the Wild West days, communication and mailing things essentially is very difficult, right?
[00:02:32] So there's not a huge infrastructure out West yet.
[00:02:37] So in order to resolve this issue, Georgie Spencer kind of campaigned to honor the vice president at the time, who was a man named John Cabell Breckenridge, youngest vice president ever in the United States serving under James Buchanan.
[00:02:57] So in order to kind of, you know, get on this guy's nice side in the hopes that it would result in a post office being established in Breckenridge, he petitioned to change the name of Breckenridge to Breckenridge.
[00:03:11] Uh-huh. That's some good old fashioned cynical thinking.
[00:03:14] Yeah, right. So, but the difference there is that Breckenridge today is spelled B-R-E-C-K-E-N-R-I-D-G, whereas vice president Breckenridge's name was spelled B-R-E-C-K-I-N-R-I-D-G-E.
[00:03:33] So the petitioning for this name change worked and by the early or by early 1860 Breckenridge was changed to Breckenridge with an I and it also got its first post office.
[00:03:49] It was the first post office established between the Continental Divide and Salt Lake City too.
[00:03:54] So, yeah, they kind of put that in perspective of how significant that is.
[00:03:59] Yeah.
[00:04:00] So, it really helps in that local town's economy when everyone has to come to that local town to mail things, you know, to get communications from outside of the Colorado mountains.
[00:04:12] So, anyways, it gets a little bit more complicated there though when 1861, I guess the transition into 1861 with all this talk about a Civil War brewing.
[00:04:29] Breckenridge's vice presidency ends and essentially by March of 1861, he starts to align his career with the Confederate States.
[00:04:39] Oh, whoa.
[00:04:39] He's commissioned as a brigadier general by November and shortly after that happened, the town of Breckenridge starts to wonder like,
[00:04:49] should we be honoring this dude that's on the Confederacy side of the Civil War?
[00:04:56] Breckenridge being loyal to the Union, Breckenridge the town, being loyal to the Union starts to make moves to change its name back to Breckenridge.
[00:05:06] And then by December of that year, they have removed his namesake from the town and have gone back to Breckenridge spelled B-R-E-C-K-E-N-R-I-D-G once again after this prospector that had a prominent role in the area.
[00:05:23] So, kind of like a back and forth there, which is interesting.
[00:05:27] You know, it takes span in a matter of like about two years, maybe a little bit less than two years, you know, back in like that 1859 to 1861 period.
[00:05:39] Yeah.
[00:05:40] So, yeah, really interesting there.
[00:05:43] Just that back and forth, you know.
[00:05:45] Yeah.
[00:05:45] And today, obviously, Breckenridge is still called Breckenridge.
[00:05:48] I think at one point they were referred to as the Kingdom of Breckenridge, which is kind of interesting also.
[00:05:54] But yeah.
[00:05:55] That's so Breckenridge.
[00:05:57] Yeah.
[00:05:57] I don't know why that was still.
[00:05:59] Well, and also, I mean, well, and I guess before we move on from Breckenridge itself, this vice president, Breckenridge, who joined the Confederate States, kind of some more interesting stuff there as well.
[00:06:16] Confederate States obviously lost the Civil War.
[00:06:19] Yeah.
[00:06:20] And then this dude.
[00:06:21] No spoilers.
[00:06:21] Yeah, no spoilers.
[00:06:22] This dude flees to the Bahamas and then to Cuba and then to Great Britain.
[00:06:28] Whoa.
[00:06:29] Ultimately moves back to Canada.
[00:06:32] And then in 1868, there was a kind of blanket immunity that was given to former Confederates.
[00:06:38] So he was able to move back to the U.S. and ended up living out the rest of his days in Kentucky.
[00:06:44] Wow.
[00:06:45] So yeah, kind of some interesting stuff there.
[00:06:47] I mean, I didn't even, you know, you don't even really think about that unless you're really diving into Civil War history.
[00:06:53] Yeah, exactly.
[00:06:54] Well, the double name flop is so interesting.
[00:06:57] It is, yeah.
[00:06:58] Back and forth and back and forth.
[00:06:59] Yeah.
[00:06:59] And just, I mean, when I was just kind of researching the topic, I mean, I learned a lot.
[00:07:03] So yeah.
[00:07:04] Yeah.
[00:07:04] Wanted to share that.
[00:07:05] But I mean, it also kind of ties into some of the current climate in Colorado, I think, too.
[00:07:10] Just with the recent name change from Mount Evans to Mount Blue Sky.
[00:07:14] Right.
[00:07:15] I think it was the second governor of Colorado, John Evans.
[00:07:19] I believe second governor.
[00:07:21] But either way, he was blamed for facilitating a climate where the Sand Creek Massacre could take place.
[00:07:29] Sand Creek Massacre, for those of you who are not aware, essentially you had some cavalry troops led by John Shivington, I believe.
[00:07:41] And they, I think their numbers were in the 700 range or something like that.
[00:07:47] Maybe way more than that.
[00:07:48] You'll have to look that up.
[00:07:49] I don't have that number in front of me.
[00:07:51] But basically they roll into a Native American camp and slaughter a lot of women, a lot of children.
[00:08:00] And I believe this was also during a time when there was supposed to be peace in this camp.
[00:08:06] So John Evans blamed for creating the climate that made John Shivington essentially feel like he was able to do that.
[00:08:15] So that is the ultimate reason why his name has now been pulled off of Mount Blue Sky, as it's now called.
[00:08:24] So yeah, so that's kind of an interesting piece of history there as well.
[00:08:30] Well, and with Breckenridge, I think it's interesting to remember that all of these names are in flux all the time.
[00:08:36] I feel like there's a lot of the dialogue about this stuff.
[00:08:40] It's like, it's always been that way.
[00:08:42] And it's like, well, it's always been that way as long as you've been alive or whatever that is.
[00:08:46] I mean, for Mount Evans, obviously it's longer.
[00:08:49] But names for things are always in flux because we're humans.
[00:08:53] It's like, I don't know, it's kind of how it feels to me.
[00:08:57] Well, yeah, that's totally true.
[00:08:59] It's like, take Pikes Peak, for example, right?
[00:09:02] It was originally called Tava, I think.
[00:09:05] Yeah, Mountain of the Sun.
[00:09:06] Yeah, Mountain of the Sun.
[00:09:09] And now Tabawash out by Salida area bears the name that kind of honors the community that had initially named Pikes Peak that.
[00:09:21] But yeah, it changed to Pikes Peak after Zebulon Pike.
[00:09:25] Who didn't even climb it when he did it.
[00:09:28] It was his navigator who spotted it first, right?
[00:09:32] Yeah, I think they essentially, he was saying it was like the highest peak on the range.
[00:09:40] And just him saying that was enough to get his name established on the peak.
[00:09:43] He tried to climb it.
[00:09:45] And I think he got to the top of Mount Rosa, I want to say.
[00:09:48] Which Colorado Springs residents probably have seen Mount Rosa.
[00:09:51] But it's a long way away from Pikes Peak.
[00:09:53] It's like, it'd be hard to accidentally end up on Mount Rosa.
[00:09:57] I think they encounter like two feet of snow or force to turn back.
[00:10:01] Who knows why they also didn't go with Zebulon, which is undoubtedly a much cooler name than Pike.
[00:10:08] But yeah, either way, another name that's in flux.
[00:10:12] And also as it relates to kind of the Sand Creek Massacre as well.
[00:10:16] So like John Shivington, like obviously like over the course of history, the role that Evans played in that has kind of been, has kind of come to light a bit more.
[00:10:32] A bit more publicized.
[00:10:34] And he was given kind of a lot of crap for that also back in the day when he was still alive too.
[00:10:38] I think people think it's a new thing.
[00:10:40] It was controversial back then too.
[00:10:42] Like he's always been, and like the naming of the Peak to Mount Evans was a controversial like move.
[00:10:48] Yeah.
[00:10:48] Originally.
[00:10:49] Yeah.
[00:10:49] Which is interesting because I think people think it's some new idea a lot of the time.
[00:10:53] Wasn't it originally, I need to look this up.
[00:10:56] Wasn't it originally like Mount Rosalie?
[00:10:57] Yeah.
[00:10:58] Rosalie.
[00:10:58] After Beardstadt's wife.
[00:10:59] Yeah.
[00:10:59] Yes.
[00:11:00] Yeah, exactly.
[00:11:01] The painter Beardstadt's wife.
[00:11:02] Yeah.
[00:11:02] And like, even then, like it's an example of like, these names are just always in flux.
[00:11:07] Like.
[00:11:07] Yeah.
[00:11:07] It's true.
[00:11:08] You can call that rock whatever you want to.
[00:11:12] Yeah.
[00:11:12] Very true.
[00:11:14] But yeah.
[00:11:14] So, and yeah.
[00:11:15] So this controversy around Evans was existing back in the day.
[00:11:18] Uh, I find it really interesting that there's a town in Colorado called Shivington after John
[00:11:23] Shivington, who is literally the dude that was commanding the troops carrying out this
[00:11:28] massacre.
[00:11:29] Um, as far as I know, there hasn't been much discussion at all to, uh, to change that.
[00:11:35] Yeah.
[00:11:36] At least that I've seen.
[00:11:37] Uh-huh.
[00:11:38] Um, another interesting one too, the Gore Range.
[00:11:41] Uh, I forget the dude's first name.
[00:11:43] Um, but this is out kind of in the Vail area.
[00:11:47] Yeah.
[00:11:47] And, uh, here, oh yeah, here we go.
[00:11:49] Uh, Sir St. George Gore is who that, who that range is named after.
[00:11:54] Uh, he is a very wealthy Irishman.
[00:11:58] Uh-huh.
[00:11:58] Um, but it was named after a hunting expedition that he took through the American West where
[00:12:04] apparently he was just leaving thousands of dead animals to rot, like shooting them from
[00:12:09] their moving wagons.
[00:12:11] I think from the train at some point, um, just bison, just absolute.
[00:12:17] Yeah.
[00:12:18] Yeah.
[00:12:18] Yeah.
[00:12:18] In his wake.
[00:12:19] Um, yeah.
[00:12:20] And for whatever reason.
[00:12:21] Left a trail of gore.
[00:12:22] Yeah.
[00:12:22] Left a trail of gore, quite literally.
[00:12:24] Uh-huh.
[00:12:24] And for whatever reason, the gore range is now named after him.
[00:12:28] And, uh.
[00:12:29] That's wild.
[00:12:30] Yeah.
[00:12:30] There's a lot of debate over whether they should change that or not.
[00:12:32] I think every few years someone petitions to name it.
[00:12:35] Uh-huh.
[00:12:35] Uh-huh.
[00:12:35] Did something else.
[00:12:36] And I mean, it seems like that should be a good idea maybe.
[00:12:39] Uh-huh.
[00:12:40] Uh-huh.
[00:12:40] To get political.
[00:12:41] But, uh, yeah, that's an interesting one too.
[00:12:44] Also, kind of as it relates to Mount Evans, um, Kit Carson Peak is another one.
[00:12:50] Yeah.
[00:12:50] Uh, that's up for debate.
[00:12:53] And there's, uh, conversation, um, in, uh, in that local area about whether they should,
[00:13:02] uh, submit that name to be changed, I think is where it stands right now.
[00:13:06] Uh-huh.
[00:13:06] Um, Kit Carson was known for many things, but also, uh, kind of related to, I believe, his,
[00:13:12] uh, poor treatment of Native Americans, if I, if I remember correctly.
[00:13:18] Uh-huh.
[00:13:18] Uh-huh.
[00:13:18] Well, he was kind of like one of the original Western.
[00:13:23] Yeah, he was like a Wild West, like, writer and, uh, yeah, he did a, he did a bunch of
[00:13:28] things.
[00:13:29] I think he's home.
[00:13:29] He's kind of one of those, like, jack of all trades.
[00:13:31] I think he was in the military, um, as well.
[00:13:34] Uh, I think he also, I think the big complaint there is I think he, uh, carried out, uh, military
[00:13:39] orders, uh, that forced the surrender of the Navajo people in the area.
[00:13:43] Mm-hmm.
[00:13:43] Um, and the way that they did that, uh, it was essentially destruction of, uh,
[00:13:48] of the livelihood.
[00:13:50] Yeah.
[00:13:50] So, like, destruction of crops, homes, uh, livestock.
[00:13:53] Wow.
[00:13:53] Um, so, yeah, similar, similar to Mount Evans.
[00:13:58] Yeah, exactly.
[00:13:58] Mount Blue Sky in that regard.
[00:14:01] Um, interesting there, too, is they have a few different names that they've proposed,
[00:14:07] um, for that, for that peak.
[00:14:10] Uh-huh.
[00:14:11] Uh-huh.
[00:14:11] Uh, I believe, um, two of the front runners are Mount Crestone, which has caused some concern
[00:14:17] because there's already Crestone Peak and Crestone Needle in that same Sangre de Cristo
[00:14:22] range.
[00:14:22] Yeah, they're, like, right by there.
[00:14:24] Yeah.
[00:14:24] And then another one is Tablach Upe Peak, which also there's a Tablach Peak already.
[00:14:30] Yeah.
[00:14:30] Um, so, that's kind of interesting there.
[00:14:34] Uh, I think the main complaints with those names is just that it could cause some confusion
[00:14:38] about, uh, just the different mountains in the area, you know.
[00:14:42] Which is fair.
[00:14:42] Yeah, and even as a bird flies, Tablach is not far from Kit Carson Peak, you know.
[00:14:47] It's probably 100-something miles, but still, you know, within, like, if you have an aerial
[00:14:52] view, you can see both mountains.
[00:14:53] Yeah, exactly.
[00:14:54] Um, both very notable peaks in Colorado, too.
[00:14:57] Um, another, another name that's been proposed, and I might say this wrong, but, uh, uh, Venado
[00:15:04] Peak, uh, V-E-N-A-D-O Peak.
[00:15:08] Um, but that also shares a name of, uh, 12,700 foot mountain in the Sangre de Cristo range.
[00:15:14] Oh, wow.
[00:15:15] So, yeah.
[00:15:16] So, kind of, kind of some weird conversation there in terms of, like, what, what the ultimate
[00:15:21] name might be.
[00:15:22] But, yeah, 14-year climbers should know that that might, um, might be changing.
[00:15:27] And at some point in, uh, in, in upcoming weeks, months.
[00:15:32] Yeah.
[00:15:33] Well, not weeks, but upcoming months and upcoming years.
[00:15:35] Um, yeah.
[00:15:37] And I mean, when, when I've climbed, uh, Kit Carson Peak, and when you're on the summit,
[00:15:41] you have a plain view of Crestone Peak and Crestone Needle.
[00:15:44] Perhaps one of the best views.
[00:15:46] Um, they're that close.
[00:15:48] Yeah.
[00:15:48] So, it would be, it would be confusing if, in my opinion, if they were even to call it
[00:15:52] Mount Crestone.
[00:15:53] Yeah, exactly.
[00:15:53] So close.
[00:15:55] Yeah, and I think, uh, unless people are very well-versed in mountains, even just, you
[00:15:59] know, Crestone Peak and Crestone Needle can get a little bit confusing sometimes, too.
[00:16:03] Yeah, yeah, no, definitely.
[00:16:04] Um, so, yeah, so it'll be interesting.
[00:16:06] Something to follow there, for sure.
[00:16:07] Uh-huh.
[00:16:08] Um, definitely.
[00:16:09] But, yeah, so that's how Breckenridge got its name.
[00:16:11] Yeah.
[00:16:12] And then, uh, re-got its name again.
[00:16:15] I know, it's crazy.
[00:16:16] Yeah, naming things after people is always a little, a little bit of a risk.
[00:16:22] A little bit of a risk, yeah.
[00:16:23] Um, especially when they're, uh, in politics, I would say.
[00:16:29] Yeah, especially when they're in politics.
[00:16:30] Uh-huh.
[00:16:31] Get the whole flip-flop.
[00:16:32] Yeah.
[00:16:33] Yeah, so, I guess, moving on from that, uh, to something that's, uh, pretty contentious,
[00:16:40] but it also has a, uh, tie to Colorado related to current events, uh, Hurricane Milton, uh,
[00:16:47] is, you know, we're, we're recording this on Wednesday.
[00:16:50] So, um, Hurricane Milton's supposed to make landfall here later tonight in a few hours.
[00:16:55] Um, obviously our thoughts are with the people that are going to be impacted by that, uh,
[00:17:00] major, major storm about to hit the Tampa Bay area, uh, move across Florida.
[00:17:05] Uh, but as, so, as I was kind of like just looking at newsletters,
[00:17:10] about this, I noticed there's this big trend of kind of people with conspiracies about how
[00:17:17] the storm could be related to weather manipulation.
[00:17:21] Right, yeah, yeah.
[00:17:22] Like intentional weather manipulation.
[00:17:23] Well, I've seen the tweets like 30 days before an election and we have a hurricane, you know,
[00:17:28] type thing.
[00:17:29] Exactly, yeah.
[00:17:30] The online rhetoric.
[00:17:32] Yeah, there, there's definitely that conversation taking place online.
[00:17:35] And I'm, you know, it's not our job to state, yeah, not our job to state an opinion
[00:17:39] on that necessarily.
[00:17:41] Uh, but it did bring up the topic as we were just kind of chatting about it in our little
[00:17:44] out there Colorado corner, um, brought up the topic of weather manipulation and cloud
[00:17:50] seeding.
[00:17:50] Right.
[00:17:51] So a lot of Coloradans don't know, but weather modification programs have been present.
[00:17:57] There's a state run weather modification program in Colorado where you can find official documents
[00:18:02] on this.
[00:18:03] It's been active since 1972.
[00:18:05] Wow.
[00:18:06] Um, often for the sake of just getting more snow in resort areas.
[00:18:12] Like Vail Resorts was invested in this.
[00:18:15] They, I, at, whenever I wrote about this years ago, uh, they had a whole page on their site,
[00:18:19] I think that was talking about what their role is in this.
[00:18:22] Um, so, I mean, that's definitely something that can take place and does take place.
[00:18:27] Yeah, no, definitely.
[00:18:28] Yeah.
[00:18:28] And as we were talking about it, we found Vail Resorts also pulled out of, uh, pulled
[00:18:34] out of their role in this, uh, during COVID.
[00:18:37] Right.
[00:18:37] And it wasn't because of any issue with the cloud seeding program.
[00:18:42] It was more so related to funding, um, and trying to recover lost process, uh, lost profits.
[00:18:47] Right.
[00:18:47] Um, so with them pulling out, uh, according to Colorado river district, um, or just a nonprofit,
[00:18:54] um, they, uh, left a $300,000 deficit whenever they pulled out.
[00:19:00] So like significant money, uh, uh, going into this.
[00:19:04] And I think, uh, I want to say there were like 17 different cloud seeding, uh, initiatives
[00:19:10] active in Colorado or something like that.
[00:19:12] Um, oh no, sorry, not 17, seven.
[00:19:15] There's seven different, um, uh, permitted, uh, weather modification projects, uh, at the
[00:19:21] time that this was covered, which would have been, it was January, uh, 2023.
[00:19:26] So, um, yeah.
[00:19:28] So, I mean, there's, there's a lot going on there and I mean, you do have the, like, um,
[00:19:33] what is it?
[00:19:34] The Bay, it was at the Beijing Olympics when they use cloud seeding to keep rain away from
[00:19:39] outdoor stadiums and, uh, Dubai.
[00:19:42] I think we were chatting about that.
[00:19:44] Yeah.
[00:19:44] Has experimented with it too.
[00:19:46] Yeah.
[00:19:46] I think a little bit of the flooding was maybe attributed to that.
[00:19:50] Yeah.
[00:19:50] Skeptics maybe said it was that, but yeah, either way, I mean, cloud seeding a very, very real
[00:19:56] thing.
[00:19:56] Um, yeah.
[00:19:57] Yeah.
[00:19:57] In terms of, uh, that it does, it is relevant to Colorado, you know?
[00:20:01] Uh-huh.
[00:20:02] I, I want to be very clear on this.
[00:20:04] I am pro weather manipulation for powder.
[00:20:08] More powder.
[00:20:09] Yeah.
[00:20:09] More powder is good.
[00:20:11] Yeah.
[00:20:11] I think personally, that's my stance.
[00:20:14] Yeah.
[00:20:14] So, Hey, I mean, maybe next powder day, uh, this season, you know, maybe some of that
[00:20:19] powder is attributed to the cloud seeding program.
[00:20:21] Yeah, exactly.
[00:20:22] But either way, I'm always...
[00:20:23] We're not saying it is.
[00:20:25] Well, yeah, I'm not saying it is.
[00:20:26] Yeah.
[00:20:26] I've always just, I mean, and yeah, not bringing this up to by any means contribute to conspiracies
[00:20:32] on either side.
[00:20:33] Uh-huh.
[00:20:33] I just always have found it very fascinating that, uh, that cloud seeding is something
[00:20:38] that is used for recreation and outdoor recreation in a way.
[00:20:42] Kind of one of those, uh, living in the future things.
[00:20:45] Yeah.
[00:20:45] You know what I mean?
[00:20:46] Yeah.
[00:20:46] Yeah.
[00:20:46] And I mean, a lot of the studies on it also, like the verdict's kind of out in what that
[00:20:51] long-term impact is, um, in the sense of like, okay, if you're moving precipitation from here
[00:20:57] to there, essentially like, what does that do long-term?
[00:21:01] Yeah.
[00:21:01] You know?
[00:21:01] So, uh, I think they've had some studies on it, but it's kind of ultimate, a lot of them
[00:21:07] have been inconclusive.
[00:21:08] Yeah.
[00:21:08] Um, yeah, one study that, that I included in that report was by Yale and, uh, yeah,
[00:21:15] they, they essentially it was, uh, they, they said it couldn't be a long-term solution
[00:21:20] for drought.
[00:21:21] Um, but, uh, yeah.
[00:21:24] So, I mean, that's pretty much it.
[00:21:25] Also, I think one of the problems is that when there are periods of drought, uh, there's
[00:21:29] just fewer clouds that they can seed with.
[00:21:31] So, yeah, that, uh, that also becomes a problem too.
[00:21:35] But yeah, so either way, cloud seeding, um, has been going on in Colorado in recent years.
[00:21:41] Wow.
[00:21:41] So, yeah, just a weird, weird technology.
[00:21:44] Yeah.
[00:21:44] Yeah.
[00:21:44] Science fiction.
[00:21:46] That probably is met with a lot of, uh, um, opinions on either side.
[00:21:52] So we'll let you have those opinions.
[00:21:54] Feel free to shoot us to ourselves about those opinions.
[00:21:57] Uh, uh, yeah.
[00:22:00] Another, another topic.
[00:22:01] Uh, so this one is also related to nature and, uh, maybe human intervention in nature.
[00:22:10] Mm-hmm.
[00:22:10] Uh, also sure to get plenty of opinions.
[00:22:13] And, uh, it's coming up on, uh, the ballot here in November.
[00:22:18] So Coloradans are going to vote on this, uh, deals with mountain lion hunting and whether
[00:22:24] or not it should be allowed in Colorado.
[00:22:25] Yeah.
[00:22:25] Um, so basically this, uh, proposition, uh, 127 is, uh, what Coloradans will be voting
[00:22:34] on.
[00:22:35] Um, it deals with whether or not the state should still allow as, as described as proponents
[00:22:43] of this trophy hunting.
[00:22:45] And that, that word trophy hunting is very key, um, to kind of how both sides, uh, of this
[00:22:52] argument feel.
[00:22:52] Yeah.
[00:22:53] Um, trophy hunting, right.
[00:22:55] Is probably, I mean, I guess defined as like killing something for the sake of killing
[00:23:00] something.
[00:23:01] Yeah.
[00:23:01] Right.
[00:23:01] So you get like a head on your wall, so to speak.
[00:23:04] Yeah.
[00:23:05] Um, Colorado Parks and Wildlife has actually made a statement about this, which you don't
[00:23:10] see many, many, uh, public agencies or government state run agencies making statements about,
[00:23:18] uh, ballot initiatives.
[00:23:19] But in the very early phases of, uh, this initiative when they were still kind of petitioning to get
[00:23:26] this on the ballot, uh, Colorado Parks and Wildlife came out and clearly said that trophy
[00:23:31] hunting is not even allowed in Colorado.
[00:23:33] Yeah.
[00:23:34] Like it's a form of poaching.
[00:23:35] Yeah.
[00:23:36] Yeah.
[00:23:37] Every, every animal that's, uh, harvested in Colorado or killed by hunters in Colorado,
[00:23:41] um, has to be prepared for human consumption.
[00:23:45] Yeah.
[00:23:45] Right.
[00:23:45] So that's, yeah.
[00:23:46] Even, even if it's a bear, right.
[00:23:48] Like that's, uh, that's something that people might not realize.
[00:23:52] Um, so this idea of like trophy hunting, uh, it isn't, isn't something that's going on
[00:23:59] per the Colorado Parks and Wildlife definition of trophy hunting.
[00:24:03] Uh, uh, but either way, uh, the people that are for, uh, this ban, which would also include
[00:24:10] things like links, um, and Bobcats, I believe, uh, basically don't know anyone there in our
[00:24:16] emails.
[00:24:17] Yeah.
[00:24:18] Yeah.
[00:24:18] There's a lot of one who's pro pro mountain lion, man.
[00:24:21] Uh, they, they are emailing us currently.
[00:24:24] Yeah.
[00:24:24] I get it.
[00:24:25] I get two or three emails a day, um, from people that are, are wanting us to pick a side
[00:24:30] on this, but, um, yeah, I'm, I'm not going to pick a side.
[00:24:33] I'm just going to throw the fat, throw the facts out there and try to address it in that
[00:24:37] manner.
[00:24:37] Um, but basically the, uh, the opinion of the people who, uh, want to ban, uh, the hunting
[00:24:45] of Colorado's wild cats, um, view the hunting methods is cruel.
[00:24:51] Uh, right.
[00:24:52] Um, a lot of times dogs are used to hunt mountain lions where they essentially treat a tree,
[00:24:57] the lion and then shoot it out of, out of the tree.
[00:25:01] Yeah.
[00:25:02] Um, and it's also worth noting that, uh, as we're diving into this too, like, I think
[00:25:08] it's around 500 mountain lions are killed each year in Colorado.
[00:25:11] Uh huh.
[00:25:12] And, uh, I think there's something like 2000 plus tags given out to kill a mountain lion.
[00:25:18] So it's pretty, uh, it's difficult.
[00:25:22] Yeah, exactly.
[00:25:23] To hunt a mountain lion and kill a mountain lion.
[00:25:24] And so, uh, and without the use of dogs, I would imagine it's even more difficult.
[00:25:30] Yeah.
[00:25:30] It feels immensely more difficult probably.
[00:25:33] Um, but yeah, either way, uh, people that are for this ban, uh, tend to view this as a
[00:25:41] cruel method.
[00:25:41] Uh huh.
[00:25:42] And they think that the mountain lion population should be able to just exist as it is and,
[00:25:47] um, grow to whatever it is naturally able to.
[00:25:51] Yeah.
[00:25:52] Without hunting as a means of population control.
[00:25:55] Gotcha.
[00:25:56] Which is essentially the way that, um, you know, hunting can be looked at for many species
[00:26:01] in Colorado.
[00:26:02] Whereas it's, it's a form of population control.
[00:26:04] Uh huh.
[00:26:05] Every year, Colorado Parks and Wildlife sets those hunting numbers based on what the current
[00:26:09] populations are estimated at.
[00:26:11] Yeah.
[00:26:12] And then, uh, how, how many of that species, uh, can or should be killed depending on how
[00:26:19] you look at it, uh, in order to keep kind of all the, the prey predator populations in
[00:26:25] balance and to keep all the resources from being too depleted.
[00:26:28] Right.
[00:26:28] Gotcha.
[00:26:29] And there are other methods too.
[00:26:30] Like we just covered, uh, the wild horse wrangling, uh, out in Western Colorado where,
[00:26:36] uh, wildlife officials, uh, that in that case associated with the BLM, um, they, they wrangle
[00:26:43] the horses, right.
[00:26:44] Uh, in order to, uh, make sure that there's enough resources to go around in that landscape
[00:26:50] to have a healthy horse population.
[00:26:52] So there are other methods, but hunting is definitely one of those key ways or key means
[00:26:57] of population control.
[00:26:59] Right.
[00:26:59] No, definitely.
[00:27:00] Um, but yeah, so, and then those on the other side of proposition 127 who, uh, think that
[00:27:07] this ban is, uh, not a good idea, um, think that Colorado parks and wildlife should still
[00:27:14] be able to, uh, kind of use utilize hunting as a means of population control.
[00:27:21] Well, and it feels like from what you said that CPW's main issue with this is like the
[00:27:26] verbiage used there.
[00:27:28] Like, I don't know, maybe, maybe I'm wrong there, but, uh, it feels like one of their
[00:27:33] main contentions I'd say is like with the verbiage like of banning trophy hunting.
[00:27:39] Okay.
[00:27:40] What does that mean for us?
[00:27:41] Like they're all of a sudden dealing with this extra layer of like legality.
[00:27:45] Yeah.
[00:27:46] Well, and there are, there are a few, um, other issues that arise with it too.
[00:27:52] And Colorado parks and wildlife, they did initially come out and say that like, it's not trophy
[00:27:56] hunting.
[00:27:57] Uh, we don't like that terminology, but they have, they have, uh, maybe at least from what
[00:28:04] I've seen been a little bit more tight lipped about expressing an opinion on it once it's
[00:28:09] kind of got into the phase where it's at, where we're actually voting on it.
[00:28:13] Yeah.
[00:28:13] Yeah.
[00:28:13] Yeah.
[00:28:14] Um, oh, so they voiced their opinion when it was, that was like initial, like very,
[00:28:19] very initially.
[00:28:20] Yeah.
[00:28:20] And maybe, and maybe they've reiterated that in a month since, but, uh, I got approached
[00:28:24] to sign that petition.
[00:28:26] I refuse because I just, I don't know.
[00:28:29] I felt like I had to be impartial and impartial to this day.
[00:28:33] Yeah.
[00:28:33] I will, I will never sign a petition in the street when someone randomly comes up to
[00:28:37] me and ask for my sacred.
[00:28:38] Yeah.
[00:28:38] Yeah.
[00:28:39] That's just a personal policy.
[00:28:40] I don't care what it's about.
[00:28:42] Um, yeah, either way, one of the other, uh, issues that's been pointed out by people
[00:28:46] that are, um, against this proposition is that it would eliminate the, uh, I guess the big
[00:28:53] game status, uh, of mountain lions, which would essentially mean, uh, as far as I understand
[00:29:01] that, um, ranchers wouldn't be able to be compensated for depredation of mountain lions.
[00:29:08] If mountain lion kills your elk, I guess there are, there are elk farms in Colorado, I believe,
[00:29:14] but if mountain lion kills your cow, we'll say, um, or kills your llama, um, or, or your
[00:29:21] dog, your ranch dog, um, then there would, there would not be compensation for that.
[00:29:27] And currently you can be compensated for that.
[00:29:29] So that's kind of another trickle down effect of this.
[00:29:31] Yeah.
[00:29:32] Um, yeah, pretty, pretty, uh, contentious, uh, situation going on.
[00:29:37] Uh, there was actually a governor or a, uh, not a governor, a, uh, county commissioner,
[00:29:41] Douglas County commissioner, uh, commissioner, uh, who recently spoke out about this calling
[00:29:47] it biology at the ballot box.
[00:29:49] Right.
[00:29:49] And I think that is ultimately the crux of how do people feel about this?
[00:29:56] Right.
[00:29:56] Because what it ultimately does is it takes control away from Colorado parks and wildlife,
[00:30:03] uh, to use their expertise to manage that population.
[00:30:08] Yeah.
[00:30:08] And it's kind of like you have the one side saying the population can manage itself naturally.
[00:30:13] Uh, and then you have another side, uh, saying, no, we want the experts to help with this
[00:30:20] population management, um, and this human intervention to take place.
[00:30:25] Yeah.
[00:30:25] So kind of a very interesting, uh, aspect there.
[00:30:29] Uh, a couple other things to note is that if this were to pass, um, wildlife officials
[00:30:37] and people would still be able to, uh, would still be able to kill mountain lions when they
[00:30:42] were threatening, uh, human life, livestock, property, things like that.
[00:30:46] Uh, but that would be an exception, you know, when it'd be 500 instances of that every year
[00:30:51] like there are today, um, roughly every year where there's 500 mountain lions that get killed,
[00:30:56] uh, by hunters in the state of Colorado.
[00:30:59] Yeah.
[00:30:59] Um, so yeah, kind of a, kind of a very, uh, interesting example, especially just in the
[00:31:05] wake of the wolf reintroduction.
[00:31:07] Yeah.
[00:31:07] Right.
[00:31:08] Which a lot of people called that, uh, ballot biology as well.
[00:31:11] Yeah.
[00:31:12] Um, and that remains contentious to the day.
[00:31:15] Uh, an interesting story too.
[00:31:17] So people that are against this, we've got, like I said, we've gotten emails from many people
[00:31:23] that are pro, um, mountain lion hunting band.
[00:31:26] Yeah.
[00:31:27] And many people that are against it, both asking us to kind of project their messages out there
[00:31:31] or just to publish their statements.
[00:31:33] We're not doing that.
[00:31:34] Yeah.
[00:31:34] Um, by any means, uh, we have yet to publish a statement from either side.
[00:31:39] Yeah.
[00:31:40] Um, though we do try to share opinions from both sides just so people kind of have that full
[00:31:44] picture.
[00:31:44] Um, but interesting case though, uh, that people who are against, um, the mountain lion ban, uh,
[00:31:54] have kind of pointed out as, or well, they've used it, I guess, to question like, what would
[00:32:01] Colorado look like if there were more mountain lions, uh, roaming the state, right?
[00:32:06] Uh-huh.
[00:32:07] Um, mountain lions, I think live, you know, 10 years or so in the wild.
[00:32:11] Um, so obviously that 500 number each year would stack up.
[00:32:16] Yeah.
[00:32:17] Uh, having various impacts on just one that the potentially how many mountain lions are
[00:32:22] around in Colorado and also, um, just, you know, what the, what that looks like on the
[00:32:27] deer population, which is one of their key, uh, key food sources.
[00:32:31] Um, and we'll get into that here in a second, but the story out of Canyon city is like absolutely
[00:32:36] wild.
[00:32:37] So got to share that.
[00:32:39] Um, yeah, I remember basically, uh, this man who has, I think he reportedly, he was a
[00:32:44] raft guide, uh, living in his camper kind of by the river, uh, uh, outside of Canyon city.
[00:32:51] So West of Canyon city, it's late at night.
[00:32:53] One of the reports I saw said it happened to the encounter happened around midnight, but
[00:32:58] all of a sudden this mountain lion essentially is in the area of this dude and his dog.
[00:33:03] Yeah.
[00:33:04] Mountain lion kind of gets closer and closer and this is nighttime, right?
[00:33:08] So not much light, even if he had a little bit of light, not enough light to be around
[00:33:12] a mountain lion in his natural habitat.
[00:33:14] Yeah.
[00:33:15] Um, mountain lion, uh, was acting as I think Colorado parks and wildlife described to abnormally
[00:33:22] aggressive.
[00:33:22] Um, comes at this man and his dog, uh, as it gets close, the man's dog, uh, a large husky
[00:33:30] kind of engages the mountain lion and, uh, the man grabs a shovel and hits the mountain
[00:33:36] lion to kind of break up this fight.
[00:33:38] Yeah.
[00:33:39] Um, one of the reports I saw said the mountain lion kind of like temporarily separated, but
[00:33:45] then was back at the, back at the site again, like within a couple seconds or minutes or
[00:33:51] something like that.
[00:33:52] Uh, so then the man hits it again with a shovel and he kills the mountain lion.
[00:33:56] Wow.
[00:33:57] So, uh, just a very brutal display of like if you're at a campsite and I mean, I would venture
[00:34:03] to say most people would probably react in the same way.
[00:34:05] Yeah, exactly.
[00:34:05] Like if an attack is imminent and I guess Colorado parks and wildlife aren't calling it officially
[00:34:10] an attack because the man wasn't touched by the mountain lion.
[00:34:13] Yeah.
[00:34:13] Um, so that's just their terminology either way.
[00:34:17] Yeah.
[00:34:17] Close proximity encounter with a mountain lion.
[00:34:20] Yeah.
[00:34:20] Scary situation.
[00:34:21] Um, but so you have these people that are against this ban using this example of like,
[00:34:27] would this be happening more often if we had more mountain lions in Colorado?
[00:34:31] Right.
[00:34:32] Yeah.
[00:34:32] Uh, so yeah, so kind of a, kind of an interesting case there, uh, just in the weeks, days and
[00:34:38] weeks leading up to this vote, uh, that really put that, you know, it's a wild animal.
[00:34:43] Yeah.
[00:34:43] It's a wild predator.
[00:34:44] It puts that, puts that potential risk on display.
[00:34:47] Yeah.
[00:34:47] Um, yeah.
[00:34:49] And then also, so people also point out, so California, uh, has actually banned hunting
[00:34:54] since 1972 with mountain lions.
[00:34:56] Uh, and basically if you look at a chart that shows the mountain lion population in California,
[00:35:01] uh, before, during, and after, well, this, yeah, before, during, and after this decision
[00:35:06] to ban the hunting, um, back in the nineties, which is kind of the first, or sorry, back
[00:35:12] in the early 1900s.
[00:35:14] Yeah.
[00:35:14] Which is kind of the first time this, um, this data was being collected.
[00:35:19] Yeah.
[00:35:19] The California mountain lion population was quite large.
[00:35:22] Right.
[00:35:22] And I think it is about the same as Colorado's population, maybe a little bit less, but even,
[00:35:27] even still the population was quite, quite large at that time.
[00:35:31] Uh-huh.
[00:35:31] And then it just continually dips as mountain lions are getting hunted.
[00:35:35] Um, until about 1972.
[00:35:38] And since that ban was established, that population has just continued to climb again.
[00:35:44] Yeah.
[00:35:44] Uh, it's not quite up as high as it was back, back in, uh, 1906.
[00:35:51] Um, but it's getting close.
[00:35:53] It's getting closer.
[00:35:54] Yeah.
[00:35:55] Yeah.
[00:35:55] It's getting, it's getting closer.
[00:35:57] Um, and this is a study that's published by, uh, California's Department of Fish and
[00:36:02] Wildlife or whatever they're called.
[00:36:03] Uh, so you can look that up and see this, see this graph if you want.
[00:36:07] Uh, but the punchline there essentially is that the ban did result in the population
[00:36:12] growth.
[00:36:13] Um, so then there's also this concern of, okay, if you have 500 more mountain lion in Colorado
[00:36:19] that live every single year, what is the long-term impact to that on the deer population?
[00:36:23] Uh-huh.
[00:36:24] Um, Colorado's deer population, I think it's around like 400,000, uh, deer.
[00:36:30] Um, but each mountain lion, uh, is said to kill about one deer per week for consumption.
[00:36:37] Gotcha.
[00:36:37] So you start crunching those numbers.
[00:36:40] Okay.
[00:36:40] 500 mountain lion, and this is just napkin math, but 500 mountain lion, um, that are still
[00:36:46] surviving in the state would mean about 26,000 additional deer, uh, would be killed by those
[00:36:53] 500 mountain lion.
[00:36:54] Yeah.
[00:36:54] Um, if you just look at those, those numbers very loosely, um, and that, so that would represent
[00:36:59] about 5% of the deer population in Colorado, I think five to 7%.
[00:37:03] Uh-huh.
[00:37:04] Um, and then you look at like, if a mountain lion's living somewhere between 8 and 13 years
[00:37:09] or so, um, instead of being killed maybe on year 4 or 5 via hunting.
[00:37:15] Yeah.
[00:37:15] Um, how many more deer would all of those mountain lion kill over time?
[00:37:19] Yeah.
[00:37:19] And then how, how could that impact the state's deer population, right?
[00:37:22] Uh-huh.
[00:37:23] So that's, that's kind of to put in perspective, and the only reason I mentioned that is, yeah,
[00:37:27] to just put into perspective, uh, one of these concerns that, that comes with this lack of
[00:37:35] human intervention and population control, I guess.
[00:37:39] Um, but meanwhile, on the flip side too, uh, there's also kind of an argument for the hunting
[00:37:45] ban, uh, that's being expressed due to the additional deer that it would kill, um, as a
[00:37:51] means of, uh, helping to kind of qualm the effects of chronic wasting disease.
[00:37:58] Uh-huh.
[00:37:58] Uh, which is essentially a neurological condition that results in the death of, uh, Colorado
[00:38:03] cervid animals.
[00:38:04] So a deer, elk, moose, uh, especially prominent in the state's deer population.
[00:38:09] Um, one of the key ways that, or I guess one of the key situations where chronic wasting
[00:38:15] disease tends to thrive is when there's an overpopulation, um, and then basically these
[00:38:22] animals get sick, and usually you can even tell when they're, especially when they're in
[00:38:25] the kind of mid to late stages of this sickness, uh, they get weaker, they're not as fast.
[00:38:30] So some of these people that are, um, pro this hunting ban think that if there are more mountain
[00:38:37] lions in the state, uh, more of these deer that have chronic wasting disease would be picked
[00:38:42] off quicker, uh, before they're able to kind of pass it along to their deer friends.
[00:38:47] Gotcha.
[00:38:47] So, so yeah, very complicated issue.
[00:38:49] Uh, it's a lot of rambling, like even just the conversation on it, you know, it's back
[00:38:53] and forth, but.
[00:38:55] Uh-huh.
[00:38:55] Just trying to cover the topic.
[00:38:56] There's so many like caveats.
[00:38:59] Yeah.
[00:38:59] Yeah, there are.
[00:39:00] And there's a lot of opinions being stated.
[00:39:02] Yeah.
[00:39:02] A lot of studies being cited from a range of, uh, representing a range of legitimacy.
[00:39:08] Yeah.
[00:39:09] So yeah, it's, it's one of those things where it's like ultimately.
[00:39:12] You know, do you think this hunting method is cruel enough to justify, uh, banning hunting
[00:39:19] altogether?
[00:39:20] Or do you think that, um, human intervention and population control is important enough
[00:39:27] to vote against it?
[00:39:29] So you kind of have the two sides there of that, but yeah.
[00:39:34] So, I mean, that's.
[00:39:34] Super interesting.
[00:39:35] Very interesting.
[00:39:36] And interesting story.
[00:39:37] I can't even say to, too.
[00:39:38] I mean, maybe, maybe, maybe there's a world where we get that dude on our podcast.
[00:39:41] Tell a story.
[00:39:42] Yeah, exactly.
[00:39:44] Seriously.
[00:39:44] That'd be pretty wild.
[00:39:45] Um, but yeah.
[00:39:47] So, uh, yeah.
[00:39:49] Interesting topic.
[00:39:50] I'll be, I'll be curious to see how that one turns out.
[00:39:53] Uh, once people vote here in November.
[00:39:54] Uh-huh.
[00:39:55] Um, obviously the wolf reintroduction was like narrow, narrow margin.
[00:39:59] I think it was less than a percent.
[00:40:01] Wow.
[00:40:01] Um, most of the people that voted for wolf reintroduction, uh, were along the front range,
[00:40:08] at least in terms of like just the population concentration of those voters.
[00:40:11] Um, a lot of the states where the wolves are being released voted strongly against wolf reintroduction.
[00:40:19] Uh-huh.
[00:40:20] Um.
[00:40:20] A lot of the counties.
[00:40:21] Yeah.
[00:40:22] Yeah.
[00:40:22] Yeah.
[00:40:22] So, uh, yeah, we'll be, we'll be following that closely and, uh, we'll definitely be reporting
[00:40:28] on it whenever that, uh, whenever the voters decide on that one.
[00:40:32] So.
[00:40:32] Yeah.
[00:40:32] No, definitely.
[00:40:33] Yeah.
[00:40:33] Could be, uh, could be interesting.
[00:40:36] Yeah.
[00:40:36] Another one.
[00:40:36] And let us know how you feel about it.
[00:40:39] Yeah.
[00:40:39] Shoot us an email.
[00:40:40] Comment on an article.
[00:40:41] Um, have your opinion heard.
[00:40:44] Um, but yeah.
[00:40:46] Uh, yeah.
[00:40:47] So moving on from that, um, no relation really.
[00:40:52] And this is not much of a, much of a thing we're really diving too hard into.
[00:40:57] Um, but, uh, canine unit from, uh, Fremont County was recently found dead in the mountains.
[00:41:04] Um, canine was named Watson has a male chocolate lab, uh, that was trained in narcotics detection,
[00:41:11] uh, basically went missing on the morning of October 1st while he was out of property
[00:41:16] during what they call an airing break.
[00:41:18] Um, but the property was in the 12 mile Canyon area, which is off highway nine, um, kind of
[00:41:25] in the middle of the state.
[00:41:26] Um, and I would assume an airing break is just like in between, uh, the scent chasing,
[00:41:33] so to speak.
[00:41:34] Uh, but ran off.
[00:41:35] And the suspicion is that he was lured off that property by either a person or an animal.
[00:41:41] Um, no evidence of him in those first few days until his, uh, handler or person described
[00:41:47] as handler and best friend, uh, deputy homes found his body off of the highway with apparent
[00:41:53] trauma related to a vehicle.
[00:41:55] So dang.
[00:41:56] Yeah.
[00:41:56] Not much to say there, but, uh, sad story.
[00:41:58] Yeah.
[00:41:59] Sad story.
[00:41:59] And beautiful dog.
[00:42:00] Yeah.
[00:42:01] Beautiful dog.
[00:42:02] And, and yeah, condolences go out to, uh, that Sheriff's, Fremont County Sheriff's
[00:42:06] Office and especially.
[00:42:07] Holmes and Watson.
[00:42:09] Yeah.
[00:42:09] Yeah.
[00:42:10] Yeah.
[00:42:10] Right.
[00:42:11] Oh man.
[00:42:12] That's brutal, bro.
[00:42:13] Yeah.
[00:42:13] That's so sad.
[00:42:14] It's so sad.
[00:42:16] But yeah.
[00:42:17] So condolences go out to that, uh, Sheriff's Office.
[00:42:20] Um, and yeah.
[00:42:22] And especially canine deputy homes.
[00:42:24] Uh huh.
[00:42:25] I know.
[00:42:25] Hard, hard, hard loss.
[00:42:27] Lost his sidekick.
[00:42:28] Yeah.
[00:42:28] Yeah.
[00:42:28] Hard loss in a, in a tragic way too.
[00:42:30] So.
[00:42:31] Yeah.
[00:42:31] Um, definitely.
[00:42:32] Yeah.
[00:42:32] We're both, we're both dog owners.
[00:42:35] Yeah.
[00:42:35] So we, uh, yeah, that, that story definitely hit us hard.
[00:42:39] So sad.
[00:42:40] Um, but yeah.
[00:42:41] So moving on from that though, uh, recent data analysis came out from wallet hub, uh,
[00:42:49] which they publish a bunch of these data analysis is, uh, they always kind of have their big data
[00:42:54] set where they pull different metrics about things like crime, et cetera, uh, for a bunch
[00:42:59] of places around the country.
[00:43:01] And then they'll come up with like, you know, here's the best place to be, um, to raise a
[00:43:06] family or here's the best place to retire, et cetera.
[00:43:10] Um, but a recent data analysis came out that, uh, was looking at where the most and least
[00:43:17] dangerous places to live in the country, uh, in 2024, uh, Colorado did not do very well.
[00:43:24] Um, so there were 182, 182, uh, cities and some maybe qualifies towns, but, uh, 182 cities
[00:43:34] we'll say around the country that were included.
[00:43:37] I think they picked the 150 ish largest cities in the country.
[00:43:41] Plus they made sure that each state was represented as well.
[00:43:44] Um, so some of those cities are a little bit smaller, but 182, uh, uh, American cities in
[00:43:52] this data analysis and the safest place in Colorado of the three that were included was
[00:43:58] Aurora.
[00:43:59] Um, and so Colorado Springs and Denver were the other two places that met the criteria to be
[00:44:06] included in this as well.
[00:44:07] Uh, safest place was, was Aurora and it even ranked 115th of the 182.
[00:44:15] So pretty abysmal ranking from the leader there.
[00:44:18] Yeah.
[00:44:18] And something to take into account too is that a lot of these safety, uh, a lot of these
[00:44:25] like safety surveys, uh, are heavily focused on crime, right?
[00:44:30] Um, or only focused on crime, uh, which this one included crime, uh, as a, as a category of
[00:44:38] metrics, uh, and as the most heavily weighted category.
[00:44:42] Uh, but it also took a look at natural disaster risk, natural disaster risk and economic safety
[00:44:48] as well.
[00:44:49] So a little bit, maybe full scope in terms of safety, if you want to say that.
[00:44:54] Yeah, exactly.
[00:44:55] Um, and those other two factors definitely came into play in the, uh, Colorado Springs
[00:45:00] at Denver ratings, um, especially Colorado Springs.
[00:45:05] Right.
[00:45:05] Yeah.
[00:45:05] So, uh, ranking next on the list was, uh, Colorado Springs.
[00:45:11] Um, it ranked 157th overall.
[00:45:15] So not great.
[00:45:17] Out of 182.
[00:45:18] Out of 182.
[00:45:19] Jeez.
[00:45:20] Yeah.
[00:45:20] And, uh, it, it ended up what really brought down the Colorado Springs score and I guess
[00:45:27] to kind of touch on crime really quick, which, uh, was also low in that city.
[00:45:31] So, um, Aurora ended up, uh, ranking 134th in terms of crime.
[00:45:37] Uh-huh.
[00:45:38] Uh, Colorado Springs ranked 151st in terms of crime.
[00:45:41] Wow.
[00:45:42] Um, but it also ranked 180th out of 182 when it came to natural disaster risk.
[00:45:49] Whoa.
[00:45:50] Right.
[00:45:50] So you think that's like snow or like, I'm, I'm wondering what like the natural disaster
[00:45:56] risk is.
[00:45:57] Yeah.
[00:45:57] So the, the things they included in that, uh, and I'll just pull up their little list of
[00:46:02] metrics here.
[00:46:04] Um, but they're looking at like larger scale events kind of like, so they have, uh, earthquake
[00:46:09] risk, uh, riverine flood risk, hail risk, hurricane risk, tornado risk, and wildfire risk.
[00:46:17] Gotcha.
[00:46:17] Yeah.
[00:46:17] Um, and yeah, Colorado Springs was yeah.
[00:46:22] 180, 180th out of 182 in terms of.
[00:46:24] We have had some pretty big wildfires, you know, the hail gets pretty bad.
[00:46:29] Yeah.
[00:46:30] Yeah.
[00:46:30] And I bet it was the hail.
[00:46:31] Like it had to be the hail.
[00:46:33] Like we were just talking about it a little bit, uh, when we found this report and, uh, yeah,
[00:46:39] the hail, like it's every year there's a massive hail storm of some sort.
[00:46:44] Well, I've had, yeah.
[00:46:45] Like growing up here, I've had multiple friends get their cars just totaled by hail.
[00:46:51] Yeah.
[00:46:51] Like nothing else.
[00:46:52] If you live near Cheyenne mountain, I don't, I like, I don't know, this is purely based on
[00:46:57] personal experience, but I've had friends who live by Cheyenne mountain.
[00:47:00] And, and like, if you live in that area, your car might get totaled if the rate is bad enough.
[00:47:06] Like if I ever see a rainstorm coming in and I, and I'm visiting a friend in Cheyenne
[00:47:11] mountain, I'm like, I should, I should probably get out of here.
[00:47:14] Like, you know?
[00:47:15] Oh yeah.
[00:47:15] There have definitely been times when I've been like, Ooh, the hail looks bad today.
[00:47:18] I'm going to head downtown, park in the work garage and just use it as an excuse to
[00:47:23] happy hour.
[00:47:23] Yeah, exactly.
[00:47:24] Uh-huh.
[00:47:25] Uber home and, uh, we'll call it a day.
[00:47:27] No North Cheyenne Canyon today.
[00:47:30] Yeah.
[00:47:30] Also fountain really bad too.
[00:47:31] Yeah.
[00:47:32] Fountain really bad.
[00:47:32] Which a little bit South of the city.
[00:47:34] Uh-huh.
[00:47:35] But yeah.
[00:47:36] Uh, yeah.
[00:47:37] North Cheyenne Canyon though.
[00:47:38] Cheyenne Canyon area.
[00:47:39] Cheyenne mountain area.
[00:47:40] We'll say, uh, the zoo a few years ago.
[00:47:43] Remember that one?
[00:47:43] Oh.
[00:47:45] Not very clearly.
[00:47:46] You might've been up in Greeley.
[00:47:47] You probably wrote an article on it.
[00:47:48] Yeah.
[00:47:48] Yeah.
[00:47:48] We covered it.
[00:47:49] You might've been up in Greeley at that time.
[00:47:51] Um, but, uh, yeah.
[00:47:53] This hailstorm rolled through and you had a bunch of people at Cheyenne mountain zoo,
[00:47:57] which is kind of built on the side of the mountains.
[00:47:59] Uh-huh.
[00:48:00] Um, not a lot of protection in this situation, right?
[00:48:04] You're just walking around a zoo.
[00:48:05] Like how many buildings exist at a zoo and you have, you know, hundreds of families there.
[00:48:10] Peak day or kind of a peak day.
[00:48:12] I think I want to say it was, yeah, it was like a early afternoon storm.
[00:48:16] So probably when they're about as busy as they get.
[00:48:18] Yeah.
[00:48:19] Um, and then of course, like a lot of the zoos, they kind of have the buildings that
[00:48:23] they do have.
[00:48:24] It might have like skylights and things like that.
[00:48:26] Yeah.
[00:48:27] Uh, essentially what you had happen was a bunch of people ran for cover in, I think it was
[00:48:32] their snake building.
[00:48:33] Uh-huh.
[00:48:34] I want to say, but it had skylights.
[00:48:36] So they go into this building with skylights.
[00:48:38] It's all of a sudden just massive hailstones the size of baseball, et cetera, you know,
[00:48:44] just crashing down.
[00:48:45] And all these families with small kids just had, you know, not much protection.
[00:48:50] Yeah.
[00:48:50] Um, and I'm sure they've, uh, I'm sure they've learned from this experience and kind of taken
[00:48:56] precautions since then.
[00:48:57] But, uh, I think five animals died.
[00:48:59] Wow.
[00:48:59] I want to say, um, yeah, all small animals, but, uh, yeah, it's still, still obviously,
[00:49:07] obviously important members of the zoo.
[00:49:09] Um, yeah.
[00:49:11] So a very intense situation.
[00:49:12] So yeah, with the least safe thing, it's gotta be that hail risk, I would guess.
[00:49:16] Cause you were talking about like the, the parking lots, uh, after with the hail repairs.
[00:49:22] Oh yeah.
[00:49:22] Yeah.
[00:49:23] Well, shine mountain, like you're, you're passing down like eighth street or whatever
[00:49:27] after a while for, or even driving down us 24 after a big hail storm.
[00:49:32] It's like all of a sudden there's like a tent city, but not like, not like tent city.
[00:49:37] I don't know.
[00:49:37] Not the traditional tent city that people think of.
[00:49:40] Like, it's just like Andy's hail repair, Jerry's hail repair.
[00:49:45] Like, you know what I mean?
[00:49:46] Down the line, there's like multiple tents and then you see lines of cars, like just,
[00:49:51] just getting hail repair.
[00:49:53] Cause it's just mass damage.
[00:49:55] Yeah.
[00:49:55] Mass damage.
[00:49:56] Uh huh.
[00:49:56] Does so much.
[00:49:57] Well, and also, yeah.
[00:49:58] I mean, there's been, I've had to evacuate my home for a wildfire.
[00:50:03] Yeah.
[00:50:03] That my childhood home when the Waldo Canyon fire happened, I had to evacuate.
[00:50:08] Dang.
[00:50:08] So that could, cause you were on the West side.
[00:50:10] Yeah.
[00:50:10] I was on the West side, like pleasant Valley area.
[00:50:13] And so like that was under a mandatory evac because of, uh, the Waldo Canyon fire, because
[00:50:19] they were really scared that it was like close to just getting into the city.
[00:50:24] Like, you know what I mean?
[00:50:26] And that's terrifying.
[00:50:27] Uh huh.
[00:50:27] Yeah.
[00:50:27] When was that?
[00:50:28] Like 2002?
[00:50:29] Yeah.
[00:50:30] It might've been later.
[00:50:31] I think it might've been like 2011.
[00:50:33] 2011.
[00:50:35] I'll Google that.
[00:50:36] Yeah.
[00:50:36] Oh, 2012.
[00:50:37] You're right.
[00:50:37] Much later.
[00:50:38] Yeah.
[00:50:39] Yeah.
[00:50:39] Yeah.
[00:50:39] See, we do, we do have computers in front of us, but our typing talking skills are limited.
[00:50:45] So, uh, but that one seemed worth Googling.
[00:50:48] Yeah.
[00:50:48] Um, yeah.
[00:50:50] 2012.
[00:50:51] Yeah.
[00:50:51] And then you have like the black forest fire.
[00:50:53] Like, yeah.
[00:50:53] Black forest fire.
[00:50:54] Uh huh.
[00:50:54] One of my friends lost their house in that.
[00:50:57] Like it's like, I mean, I don't, I don't know how many big cities have wildfire risk so immediately.
[00:51:04] That's, that's a good point.
[00:51:06] Close.
[00:51:06] Yeah.
[00:51:06] That's a good point.
[00:51:07] And, and I think too, in recent years, Colorado Springs has kind of gotten lucky.
[00:51:11] Like ever since I've, I moved to, I moved to Colorado Springs in 2014 and there've been little fire scares kind of, but at least in the city's area, but not, um, nothing like that big or noteworthy.
[00:51:26] By any means.
[00:51:27] Um, yeah.
[00:51:29] I mean, maybe that's it.
[00:51:30] You kind of get lulled into this sense of safety, but yeah, it's like you look up at the mountains and you see, you see homes built right.
[00:51:39] Yeah.
[00:51:39] Right in the forest.
[00:51:40] Um, probably not easy to get out of those areas if there's panic or if there's even smoke, like whenever you're seeing the videos from wildfires, just like you can't even see the road.
[00:51:50] Like how do you drive out of there?
[00:51:51] Uh, if it's something quick and now we just keep getting more and more beetle kill.
[00:51:55] It feels like down trees.
[00:51:57] Yeah.
[00:51:58] Yeah.
[00:51:58] It just turns into more and more.
[00:52:00] Yeah, exactly.
[00:52:00] That's what I was about to say.
[00:52:02] It's that.
[00:52:02] Yeah.
[00:52:03] Turns into more and more of a tinderbox every year.
[00:52:05] Yeah.
[00:52:05] So, I mean, there you go.
[00:52:06] Yeah.
[00:52:06] And I mean, I guess also in terms of like the insurance and since we were kind of mentioning just like cars being damaged as I'm looking at the, I'm on the Wikipedia page for Waldo Canyon Fire.
[00:52:17] Uh-huh.
[00:52:19] Waldo Canyon Fire insurance claims totaled $453.7 million.
[00:52:25] So, almost half a billion dollars.
[00:52:27] Wow.
[00:52:27] And that was 2012 money.
[00:52:29] Yeah.
[00:52:29] Um, yeah.
[00:52:31] So, I mean, that's, that's pretty crazy.
[00:52:33] Super intense.
[00:52:34] I mean, even just as it relates back to the hurricane we were talking about earlier, it's like that's, that's gotta be a crazy amount that they're gonna estimate for damages.
[00:52:44] Yeah.
[00:52:44] In Florida too.
[00:52:45] Uh-huh.
[00:52:46] Uh-huh.
[00:52:46] Yeah, you have these places like maybe some places in Colorado, some places in California, and then also places where they're hurricane prone where insurance companies just don't even want to deal with them.
[00:52:56] Yeah, exactly.
[00:52:57] Uh-huh.
[00:52:58] I think, I want to say Governor Polis was trying to make a, or pass something.
[00:53:02] He may have passed it, but it would have required companies to offer insurance to homes in Colorado or something like that.
[00:53:11] Don't quote me on that.
[00:53:12] Look into it.
[00:53:13] Yeah.
[00:53:13] But, yeah.
[00:53:15] Back to the safest cities conversation.
[00:53:17] Yeah.
[00:53:18] So Colorado Springs, 157th out of 182 in terms of safe cities.
[00:53:27] The only saving grace really too because it was, like I said, 151 out of 182 in terms of kind of the crime-related statistics.
[00:53:37] I think they called it home and community safety rank.
[00:53:42] Um, and then it was 180th in terms of natural disaster-related statistics.
[00:53:48] Uh, it was 51st in terms of economic safety.
[00:53:51] Okay.
[00:53:51] So that's, that's pretty solid.
[00:53:52] Yeah.
[00:53:53] That was, um, and I think that was actually one of, yeah, so that was the highest score among all three Colorado cities.
[00:54:01] Oh, wow.
[00:54:01] In terms of like a greater category that they had it split out.
[00:54:04] So 51st in terms of economic security.
[00:54:07] Um, few of the things that they included in that.
[00:54:10] Pretty affordable spot as far as Colorado goes.
[00:54:12] As far as Colorado goes.
[00:54:13] It is.
[00:54:13] It is.
[00:54:14] It is.
[00:54:14] And people say it's not.
[00:54:15] That's the funny thing too.
[00:54:16] Cause like, if you look up the Colorado Springs cost of living index, um, so it scores a 110, uh, on the national scale.
[00:54:26] So, uh, it's actually 8.5% lower than the Colorado average according to best places.
[00:54:32] Yeah.
[00:54:32] Um, that's a company that digs into all this stuff.
[00:54:35] So yeah, so it is, it is relatively cheap comparatively.
[00:54:39] Yeah.
[00:54:39] The, the, the cheapest places I've lived in Colorado was Greeley and like, uh, yeah, if you want to live in Greeley, yeah, that's, that's some good.
[00:54:48] Yeah.
[00:54:49] Let's see what the cost of living.
[00:54:50] Yeah.
[00:54:51] Yeah.
[00:54:51] Yeah.
[00:54:51] I paid when I moved to Greeley, my, my first room that I lived in, I paid $250 for it.
[00:54:58] Hey, now, and now Greeley is more expensive than Colorado Springs and we see as it shows.
[00:55:03] Yeah.
[00:55:03] It scores a 113 now.
[00:55:05] Oh man.
[00:55:06] Um, but Greeley has also been a place of massive growth in the last couple of years, especially.
[00:55:11] Um, wow.
[00:55:12] But yeah, my first place in Colorado Springs 2014, uh, was a three bedroom house right by the new stadium, uh, that was, that just got built downtown.
[00:55:23] Yeah.
[00:55:24] Uh, like there were people going around petitioning.
[00:55:27] Like I remember them coming to the door and being like, don't let them build a stadium here.
[00:55:30] Yeah.
[00:55:30] Um, at the time.
[00:55:32] So that was like, you know, years in the making that they built that stadium.
[00:55:35] But, uh, yeah, we were paying, it was 900 bucks for the three bedroom house, front yard, backyard.
[00:55:40] Wow.
[00:55:40] Um, literally a half block from kind of the tail end, the Southern end of that tail end bar strip.
[00:55:47] Uh, so I was paying like 300 bucks a month.
[00:55:49] That's awesome.
[00:55:49] Um, yeah.
[00:55:50] Yeah.
[00:55:51] And then, you know, now it's the average rent's like 1600, I think.
[00:55:55] Yeah.
[00:55:55] Like a one bedroom or something.
[00:55:56] Uh, 1500.
[00:55:58] Uh, yeah.
[00:55:58] Colorado getting more expensive.
[00:56:00] But, uh, yeah, either way though, the city was ranked the highest out of the three, um, in terms of economic safety.
[00:56:07] Uh-huh.
[00:56:08] Um, I'm going to double check that real quick here.
[00:56:11] Um, but yeah.
[00:56:13] So, and that, that stat, uh, included things like the unemployment rate, um, and include things like the share of uninsured drivers, right?
[00:56:25] Like if you get hit by somebody that's uninsured.
[00:56:26] Yeah.
[00:56:27] Uh, the foreclosure rate, median credit score, debt to income ratio.
[00:56:32] So, so Colorado Springs apparently ranks, uh, relatively high.
[00:56:37] Yeah.
[00:56:37] In terms of those, those statistics.
[00:56:40] Uh-huh.
[00:56:41] Um, but low in other ones apparently.
[00:56:44] So, uh, uh, but yeah.
[00:56:47] And then obviously the, the remaining Colorado city of those three that we mentioned, Denver, uh, ended up ranking the worst overall.
[00:56:54] Mm-hmm.
[00:56:55] Ended up ranking a few spots behind Colorado Springs and 161st of the, the 182 places overall.
[00:57:04] So, Colorado Springs 157, Denver 161.
[00:57:07] Mm-hmm.
[00:57:08] Um, Denver's biggest, biggest factor that brought it down was, uh, the home and community safety factors.
[00:57:15] Oh, yeah.
[00:57:15] Uh, so crime essentially is a big, big factor there.
[00:57:18] Yeah.
[00:57:18] Um, which we discovered a report the other week that was saying a crime occurs in Denver every 56 seconds.
[00:57:24] Wow.
[00:57:25] Which is pretty wild to think about that.
[00:57:27] 56 seconds.
[00:57:28] Every 56.
[00:57:29] Every 56 seconds in Denver, which is.
[00:57:31] That comes from a website called Crime Grade, um, which they have a lot of, a lot of security camera advertisements on their website.
[00:57:40] So, I don't know if they're trying to highlight.
[00:57:43] Yeah.
[00:57:44] You know, danger for, for affiliate link sake.
[00:57:48] But either way, uh, they are using numbers.
[00:57:50] So, it's, uh, numbers from the FBI, et cetera.
[00:57:53] So, it's.
[00:57:54] Yeah.
[00:57:54] Interesting, interesting stat there.
[00:57:56] Um, but yeah.
[00:57:57] So, there you have it.
[00:57:58] Uh, Colorado's three cities, uh, ranking pretty poorly in terms of safety.
[00:58:03] Yeah.
[00:58:04] Um, I think it does always also.
[00:58:06] Colorado cities really vary in terms of where you live compared to where crimes are committed kind of in a sense.
[00:58:13] Where it's like, you kind of have all these cities on the front range that are kind of butting up against the mountains.
[00:58:19] So, it's almost like the further west you go, uh, more expensive it gets.
[00:58:25] Uh-huh.
[00:58:26] And then also kind of the less crime there is that's there too.
[00:58:29] So, then the eastern side, at least looking at, looking at that crime grades, uh, all their maps.
[00:58:36] Yeah.
[00:58:36] A lot of the crime in these cities is kind of concentrated on the eastern side of the city as opposed to the western side.
[00:58:42] Gotcha.
[00:58:42] Which is just kind of interesting too.
[00:58:43] Which does make sense.
[00:58:44] Yeah.
[00:58:45] Yeah.
[00:58:46] I don't know.
[00:58:46] Just based on development, it feels like.
[00:58:49] Yeah.
[00:58:49] I don't know.
[00:58:50] More city, more.
[00:58:52] Well, I guess, and even also interesting too, it's like if you're looking at the natural disaster risk ratings too,
[00:58:58] I would imagine the western side of these cities closer to the mountains,
[00:59:01] there's probably more natural disaster risk a lot of the times too.
[00:59:05] Uh-huh.
[00:59:05] Especially with wildfires.
[00:59:07] So, um, but yeah.
[00:59:09] So, there you go.
[00:59:11] Super interesting.
[00:59:12] Colorado cities can be dangerous as people know.
[00:59:16] Uh-huh.
[00:59:17] But yeah, I guess that is about all we, all we have today.
[00:59:21] You got anything else?
[00:59:24] No, I think, uh, um, yeah.
[00:59:28] No, I don't.
[00:59:29] We covered it all.
[00:59:30] Uh-huh.
[00:59:31] Yeah.
[00:59:31] Um, one other thing too that might be of interest, uh, is that the National Weather Service Space Prediction Center
[00:59:38] is calling for some pretty active, uh, solar activity.
[00:59:43] Oh, wow.
[00:59:44] They're pretty, yeah.
[00:59:45] So, uh, that increases your chance to see in the Northern Lights or Borealis.
[00:59:49] Uh-huh.
[00:59:50] Uh, got some really cool photos, um, sent to us, uh, from Monday night.
[00:59:56] Uh, a few photographers too that we found online.
[00:59:58] So, Keystone Resort posted some really cool photos of just red skies with the, the lift lines there.
[01:00:04] Um, I think the ones they posted where I want to make sure I get his name right.
[01:00:07] Uh, Trent Junyon, Junyon?
[01:00:10] J-U-N-I-O-N.
[01:00:12] Uh, took the photos.
[01:00:14] Really cool.
[01:00:14] Uh, Lars Lieber.
[01:00:16] Oh, yeah.
[01:00:16] Pretty well-known Colorado photographer.
[01:00:18] Uh-huh.
[01:00:18] Uh, posted some out of Salida.
[01:00:20] You can see those on his Instagram page.
[01:00:21] Also, The Hiking Mermaid, um, who is Chelsea Lee Stockton, uh, posted some from Estes Park.
[01:00:28] So, uh, you can find those on her, The Hiking Mermaid Instagram page.
[01:00:33] So, definitely check those out.
[01:00:35] Um, I think, I think the activity is predicted for the next few days too.
[01:00:38] Nice.
[01:00:38] So, uh, you might have a chance at seeing them, especially if you're just going out with a long exposure camera.
[01:00:42] Yeah, exactly.
[01:00:43] Nice.
[01:00:44] Um, but yeah.
[01:00:45] Super cool.
[01:00:46] Pretty cool stuff.
[01:00:47] Uh, also, slightly bummer news.
[01:00:50] Uh, this is, I guess, the last, last podcast Sam will be in the studio for.
[01:00:54] Yeah.
[01:00:55] Uh-huh.
[01:00:55] Yeah, moving to Seattle.
[01:00:57] Yeah, moving to Seattle.
[01:00:58] Uh, my, my girlfriend got her dream job.
[01:01:01] And so, I'm, I'm packing up, packing up the, the house and moving to Seattle.
[01:01:07] Yeah, first time he'll be living out of state.
[01:01:10] I know, right?
[01:01:10] Lived here my whole life.
[01:01:11] And so, it's going to be an interesting change, um, figuring it out.
[01:01:16] I don't know.
[01:01:16] Yeah.
[01:01:17] Yeah, it's going to be, uh, wish me luck on the drive.
[01:01:20] Headed out on, uh, Monday.
[01:01:24] There you go.
[01:01:24] So, yeah.
[01:01:25] Yeah.
[01:01:25] But, but it's been great.
[01:01:27] I've loved working with her out there.
[01:01:28] I've always, I've always loved the state.
[01:01:31] Um, like, I, I think that's, I've always said that I, I never pictured myself being the
[01:01:37] type of guy who, like, uh, never leaves his hometown.
[01:01:41] But, like, Colorado's such a hard place to leave.
[01:01:44] Like, I've had so many friends move and there's just never been a reason for me to move.
[01:01:49] Cause I just, I love it here so much.
[01:01:51] You know what I mean?
[01:01:52] Yeah.
[01:01:52] And so.
[01:01:53] Makes sense.
[01:01:53] It's, uh, it's going to be interesting.
[01:01:56] Uh, I'm, I'll, I'll probably be back, you know, all my family's still here, but, uh,
[01:02:01] it's going to be a fun time, uh, seeing a new city, living in a new place.
[01:02:05] Whenever he's back, I'll pop back in the studio to chat.
[01:02:08] Yeah.
[01:02:09] Um, yeah.
[01:02:11] So either way, I'd say Seattle's cool too.
[01:02:13] I've heard, I've heard great things about Seattle.
[01:02:14] I know it's going to be fun.
[01:02:15] The fresh fish.
[01:02:16] Well, it's one of the, yeah.
[01:02:17] It's one of the only places other than Colorado.
[01:02:19] I've always like pictured myself there where I could live.
[01:02:23] You know what I mean?
[01:02:23] Cool scene too.
[01:02:25] Good public transportation.
[01:02:26] You can get around easy.
[01:02:27] I love public transport.
[01:02:29] Yeah.
[01:02:30] I'm a huge fan.
[01:02:31] Hashtag, um, love public transport.
[01:02:33] Yeah.
[01:02:34] Hashtag light rail from Fort Collins, the Colorado Springs.
[01:02:37] Yeah.
[01:02:38] That'll be wild.
[01:02:38] I'll preach that till the day I die.
[01:02:40] If that ends up happening.
[01:02:41] Uh huh.
[01:02:42] Um, yeah.
[01:02:43] So either way, I just wanted to take a moment to say thank you to Sam for everything he's
[01:02:46] done.
[01:02:46] Uh, he's been our video production, um, or the guy behind all of our video production for
[01:02:51] a couple of years now.
[01:02:52] So, uh, yeah, really, uh, really great stuff.
[01:02:55] We'll be sad to see him go.
[01:02:56] So, um, everybody, uh, yeah, that's, uh, the downer.
[01:03:03] We're going to end the podcast on, I guess.
[01:03:05] It's not too much of a downer.
[01:03:07] Sorry for putting you on the spot there.
[01:03:08] Yeah.
[01:03:09] I mean, I, I know I will miss him.
[01:03:11] Yeah.
[01:03:11] Um, I'll, I mean, I'll miss this.
[01:03:13] I'll miss, uh, like, I feel like it's always, it's been a dream to just, uh, talk, talk
[01:03:19] about pretty rocks.
[01:03:21] Like all day, I just make renders of pretty rocks and then I look up pictures of pretty
[01:03:25] rocks and I, or pretty trees.
[01:03:28] And I feel like I've always, I've always valued that.
[01:03:32] And, uh, it was, it was really a perfect job for me and I, I've loved it.
[01:03:38] All right.
[01:03:38] I've loved being here.
[01:03:40] Yeah.
[01:03:41] Plenty of opportunity in Seattle too.
[01:03:43] So, um, but yeah, well, either way, thank you, Sam for everything you've done.
[01:03:47] Um, definitely been a huge, huge, played a huge, huge role in, in out there, Colorado
[01:03:52] for the time that you've been here.
[01:03:54] So, uh, but yeah, so with that, uh, that's about all we have for you today.
[01:03:59] Um, yeah.
[01:04:01] Keep getting out there, Colorado.
[01:04:03] Later.