Are the sand dunes shrinking?; A dead horse and a UFO?; First completion of the 2,000-mile Great Colorado Route; & More

[00:00:05] Welcome to another episode of the OutThere Colorado Podcast. Once again, I'm Spencer here with Seth. Hey Spencer. Howdy. We got Tim over there in the booth today doing the audio and the video for the show, so shout out Tim. But yeah, how was your weekend, Seth? Good man. Another Bears victory in the books. That was a business game that we took care of against those J-E-T-S jets. What else did I do? Ooh, went on a big hike. Like, I'm sore. I'm still sore. On Saturday.

[00:00:35] Mm-hmm. I think I'll probably talk about it at some point more at length, but I'm, I'm, I've been doing some on the ground research, if you will, of the Ute Pass Trail. Ooh, very cool. You know, on the west side of Colorado Springs here in this broader vision to kind of eventually connect this walking and biking path that's gonna get from Manitou all the way up to the Teller County line. So I've been exploring more of those pieces and, you know, pieces out of Green Mountain Falls. There's one coming along in Cascade right now, more of like a sidewalk kind of experience.

[00:01:04] But I was hiking the, my favorite portion of it, which starts beside the incline. Oh, nice. By the Manitou incline. If people have ever wondered, you know. Very cool. So I bet a bunch of our listeners have done the incline before, but right next to it, little do people know, there's this other trail. Hmm. This Ute Pass Trail that starts there and winds down through the hills. Gorgeous hike. And then goes on its way toward Cascade. Mm-hmm.

[00:01:32] Anyway, and I parked like in town of Manitou. Yeah, very cool. Tacked on a couple miles there. How many miles were we talking on the trail? Like the trail itself? Yeah, yeah. That stretch from Manitou toward Cascade, emphasis toward Cascade. It's like three and a half. Yeah. Each way or? Three and a half out and then three and a half back. And then like I said, I parked in town. So tacked on a couple miles. There you go. Yeah. So that was fun. I watched the Bears. Hiked up Palmer Park Sunday.

[00:02:02] Get some good mileage, man. Nice. Very cool. Yeah. What about you? Oh, made some chili. Ooh. What's your secret? People are wondering what's happened to my thumb. I just want to get this on the record right now. I'm fine. Everything's fine. Had a minor casualty from chopping a pepper. Ooh. And if anyone's eating lunch, I won't go into further details on that. I'm fine. But for those listening, Seth's thumb is bandaged up. A wound from the kitchen. Thumbs up, man. I'm all right. Yeah. So made some chili.

[00:02:32] What's your secret for chili? Just a little touch of coffee. Mm. Nice. That's kind of. I feel like that's it. I like carrots. Yeah, carrots. Some sweetness. That's good, too. I think it's a Midwest thing. Yeah, I was going to say. Yeah. Carrots in the chili. Yeah. And the coffee, too, I think. Yeah, maybe. That might be a little bit of a pretty good Midwest influence. Tim says dark chocolate. Mm. Yep. Also good. Yeah. It's like the Skyline chili has all those crazy ingredients in it, including, I think, dark chocolate.

[00:02:59] I got Skyline chili last year for the first time in Cincinnati. Yeah. You've got to get it in Cincinnati. In Cincinnati. Yeah. Yeah. Or at least from one of their spots. I had it from the can. Yeah. And it was not the same. It didn't feel the same. I can imagine that. Something about their cheese is so good. Either way, we don't need to talk about chili too much. My secret to chili is I always get the hatch green peppers in there. I always put a little bit of butter in it, too, which is interesting. Just a little bit. I'll put some green chilies in there, for sure. I mean, I've been living in Colorado long enough to where I have to put green chilies

[00:03:29] in chili now. Yeah. I get it. You got to. That's a kick to it. Yeah. I love it. How about you, man? Yeah. My weekend was good. Had family in town visiting. We popped over to Del Lago at the Broadmoor for a pasta dinner. Yeah. Wow. Which is very good. It also, if you're just getting the pasta and stuff, it is maybe a little bit more affordable compared to some of the other restaurants there, I would say. Pasta dishes are like 20 to 35 bucks or so, which I mean. You'd expect pretty much. Yeah. Pretty much anywhere you're going. Many places nowadays, yeah.

[00:03:59] And it's like a fine dining sit down thing. But yeah, that was good. It's one of my favorite spots. Probably my favorite spot over at the Broadmoor to eat. Right by the lake. Right by the lake. Beautiful view. Very good food. Very good pizza, too. I've heard of that. So I always get the pizza appetizer for everyone to share before we get the food. And it's just get the most simple one they got. And it is delicious. Yeah. What else did we do? We were. Nice.

[00:04:27] Girlfriend was running the race downtown, the half marathon. Okay. So we cheered her on and then went to Garden of the Gods Cafe down there on South Tejon. Is that pretty good? Yeah. I've never gotten there. Yeah. I hadn't had brunch there before. Or I guess I only do brunch and then it switches to the till, which is also a good spot. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Or at least it's been a while since I've had brunch. But yeah, no, it was delicious. What else did we do? Ended up going over to Leopold's again. Yep. Took the family there.

[00:04:56] Then we went over to Mr. Billiards and played some pool right across the street. Oh, is that open now? The old Nova West spot. Is that open? Okay. That is now Mr. Billiards. Had a really good time playing pool. Fun. And then. I'll have to get over there. Is it still kind of like, like, is it kind of old school or what's the line? No, I would say it's like, yeah, it's like updated. Modernized Billiards Hall. Yeah. Yeah. Modernized Billiards Hall. They broke down a wall. It's a pretty big space now. Huh. Yeah. Good time. Nice.

[00:05:22] Then, yeah, on Sunday, actually just kind of hung out at the sports book for a lot of the day. The new little sports bar down here in Colorado Springs and watched some football. Watched the Broncos lose, unfortunately. Man. Heartbreaking loss. I'm very impressed with, consistently impressed with what Shanahan does with those 49ers every year. My gosh, they are always decimated by injuries. And they always win. Yep. Just amazing. Yeah. Shout out to Shanahan. I'm sure he's a listener of the show.

[00:05:52] They deserve the win this week and they were playing better than the Broncos. So, that's how it goes. But yeah, no, it was a nice weekend. Good family time. Cool. Cool. But yeah, let's get into it. What do we got on the list today? So, actually, I'm going to start us off with something that I'm very interested to hear more about that you teased a little bit before the show. But I didn't ask the questions I wanted to ask because I wanted to wait to ask him here. So, basically, you're telling me the sand dunes are shrinking? Interesting question.

[00:06:21] So, when I think of shrinking, I think of like this, condensing, right? That might be exaggerating in this, but they have been lowering. For people watching, they've been doing this. Yeah. So, we're talking about the tallest of the tallest sand dunes, by the way. At Great Sand Dunes National Park. At Great Sand Dunes National Park in the San Luis Valley, right? So, I connected with the longtime geologist there recently.

[00:06:48] And he's been studying this landscape for over 30 years now. So, I just thought, wow, what a great brain to pick, you know? So, I learned a lot about the sand dunes. But most interesting to me, and what I think may be most interesting to readers, is that, yes, the tallest of North America's tallest sand dunes, as they are known, some of these, have been lowering in recent years. And this is just the way that the wind has been blowing, essentially, they think.

[00:07:15] You know, there's all these mega dunes, as we call them at the Great Sand Dunes. Essentially, like dunes built upon dunes, essentially. You know, the biggest of the biggest at this dune field. And just the way that the wind has been blowing for a lot of those mega dunes, it's been blowing off the top onto these steeper ridges. And thus, we have some lowering heights in recent years.

[00:07:41] And, like, the biggest dunes there are, what, around, like, 750 feet or so? So, like, how much smaller are we talking? Like, are we talking centimeters, inches? And that's another big point here, right? So, let's talk about Stardune first. You know, over the years, that's kind of gotten pointed to as being the tallest dune there. Most recent measurements have it somewhere approaching 720 feet. Okay.

[00:08:06] That is an all-time low on a record going back this century, going back 2000, when it was closer to 600, 760 feet. Oh, wow. So, you know, we're talking... 40 feet is significant. And if people look at this chart that I'm looking at right now, it does something like this, right? It's kind of wobbling on its way down. You know, yeah. Yeah. It fluctuates year to year.

[00:08:32] But the general trend, certainly for the past 10 years, has been dropping, right? That's the same, generally speaking, for Hidden Dune, another one that competes for the tallest of dunes. That's a more subtle general drop in recent years. It's standing... It seems to be standing around 740 feet. So, taller than Stardune. Yeah. Right? Another case here is High Dune.

[00:09:02] That is... It's funny that it's called High Dune. It's certainly not the highest dune. It is just the one that at the base of the national park that we look out and we see. It's like the tallest one that we see. Past couple years, there's a little uptick going on. But before that, going back to 2024, it got measured around 685 feet. And that was a record low on this record spanning beyond the start of this century.

[00:09:31] So, yeah. Around 2010, it was measured closer to 710 feet. Wow. So, you know, we're talking 10s, 20, 30, 40, 50 feet over the past decade or so. I'm looking at other data here. I think that kind of... So, another one bucking the trend that I'd never heard about. It's called Bend Dune. That's also considered one of the tallest out there. In more recent years, that seems to be ticking up a little bit.

[00:09:59] So, the obvious question, like, what's behind this, right? It's just the forces of Mother Nature. In a lot of cases, it really is just the way that the wind has been blowing and favoring or not favoring certain ridges that these tallest dunes form on, right? There is, interestingly, perhaps something to be said about where sand has historically been coming from.

[00:10:27] Or perhaps lack thereof in recent years. If people are familiar with this story, we can get more into how these dunes form generally. But beyond the dunes, there is what's considered a, quote-unquote, sand sheet. Where sediment is thought to get transported and blown back over time.

[00:10:48] There's some thinking that with vegetation the way it is, the way vegetation has been growing for years and years now, that maybe it's blocking some of that sand from coming back. That's a suspicion at this point. That's very interesting. Perhaps there isn't a certain level of sand feeding the dune field. Yeah, that makes sense. Historically speaking. So, that could be an answer. But a lot of it does just have to do with how the winds blow.

[00:11:17] And it's suspected for 400,000 years now, these dunes have been rising and falling. It just so happens in more recent years, some of the tallest ones have been dropping. Yeah. Yeah, and so it's mentioned, too, in case people aren't aware. Another big part of the sand dunes and how they're able to exist there is because those 14ers are right there. Exactly. So, the sand... Get into that. It's a great story about how they form. Yeah, the sand that essentially would be blowing away from the dunes hits those 14ers, doesn't go over them.

[00:11:47] And then the snowmilt ultimately returns that sand back down into the San Luis Valley. For sure. Via Madonna Creek, right? Like, that's some clear evidence there that you can see most years. This year, though, no Madonna Creek. At least not in the visitor area. So, I wonder... That's another interesting question that I posed. You know, because as you were alluding to, like, snowmilt and essentially water transport. Water transporting sediment is crucial to the ancient ways that these dunes have been building.

[00:12:17] So, that was a question in my mind. Well, is there just less sediment? Being delivered? You know? That's uncertain. You know, science is a very long-term process. Yeah. Answers are not there right now. But it is interesting to think about. Yeah. And beyond that, it's really just interesting to think about. We get to view this landscape that is constantly moving, that is constantly forming, that is constantly reshaping.

[00:12:43] And it has been for a suspected hundreds of thousands of years going back to what's believed to have been this massive lake in what's considered the world's most massive Alpine Valley. This lake that gets referred to as Lake Alamosa. And it's thought, again, that it was this huge body of water that trapped a huge amount of sediment.

[00:13:04] And it drained and left behind smaller lakes that get called Playa Lakes, which that refers to bodies of water that sometimes fill, but more generally dry. By capturing that sediment that blows across one way, you know? And then from the other way, that mountain front that you allude to coming down through those mountain passes, the wind moving sediment one way. And we have the swirling effect and these dunes forming. Yeah, yeah.

[00:13:31] So it's super cool in my mind the way that we get to view this like – I heard the park geologists there call it like – it's like studying like a living organism because it is moving. Yeah, yeah. It's not breathing. But interestingly enough, on a park webpage, you can listen to the dunes sing. I've seen that. I've seen that and heard that.

[00:14:03] Yeah, yeah. I've seen that. I've seen that, yeah. I've seen the dunes on Mars and the dunes on Saturn's moon.

[00:14:32] Is that Titan or anything in there? I think so, yeah. So people who see the sand dunes – yeah, Saturn's moon is Titan. Scientists who see the sand dunes as a way to understand dunes far beyond us on these other planets.

[00:14:49] Of course, the geologist at the sand dunes thinks our planet is the most interesting of them all in that we get landscapes like the great sand dunes that we can better understand and better appreciate our planet. I think the story of the sand dunes kind of builds up that level of appreciation. Oh, for sure. Yeah. No, it's fascinating stuff. And like we've said before, of the otherworldly places in Colorado, great sand dunes gets brought up all the time. No doubt.

[00:15:18] I'd be curious if it were to just stop snowing, never snow again, right? Like there's no more effect of the sand getting brought down the mountain by the snow. No more precipitation in that valley. How long the dunes would stick around? I'd be curious to know what the answer is there. Yeah, because it is, again, it's thought, it's suspected that a glacial outwash from like 12,000 years ago significantly contributed to the dunes and the heights that we see now.

[00:15:47] But conversely, it's interesting to think like if this vegetation that's been growing across the valley is part of the issue for sedimentation getting blocked to a certain, to some extent, that maybe dry periods could contribute to that vegetation lowering. Yeah. And maybe more sand coming down. But back to your point, dry periods generally allude to not as much water transport coming. Not as much sediment in that sense, right? Yeah. So big mystery there. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:18] Cool stuff. Yeah. Big mystery there. Yeah. I'm happy you are looking into that and monitoring the dunes for us, Seth. Mm-hmm. Letting people know that their dunes might be shrinking a little bit. Getting shorter. We'll say. Take it from the website. The lack of new sand coming in suggests that the overall size of the dune field isn't growing, but the dunes within are constantly moving in complex patterns. Alluding back to the wind.

[00:16:42] It is possible that lots of new sand enters the dune field when climatic conditions decrease the vegetation on the sand sheet, such as during an ice age when it's cold or during extremely dry periods. Mm-hmm. So it kind of can go both ways. Oh, there we go. So, yeah. Kind of interesting, man. Very interesting. Yeah. Well, speaking of the great sand dunes, I don't know.

[00:17:05] Did you see that Donovan Rice has finished his massive Great Colorado Route trek around the state? There was quite a walk recently across the state. Yeah. Yeah. About 2,000 miles. Because he did, as the route was designed, it was meant to be about 1,700 miles. I think he kind of added a couple little things once he got into some certain areas, but increasing the mileage a little bit there. Absolutely wild stuff.

[00:17:35] Congrats to him if he's listening. Very cool. Very cool. It took him 141 days. Mm-hmm. Started and finished at Black Canyon of the Gunnison National Park. He put some photos online of him standing there over the big cliff drop there, holding up the Colorado flag. Very cool stuff. I haven't caught up with him about specifically what he ended up adding and what destinations he hit.

[00:18:01] But as it was designed, and he stuck pretty true to that route, supposed to have about 381,000 feet of vertical gain over the course of that 1,700 miles. Mm-hmm. So very steep. Steeper than the Pacific Crest Trail. As it was designed, his route would be about 224 feet of gain per mile on average. Pacific Crest Trail is about 185 feet, and that's known to be a pretty steep through hike. So very cool stuff.

[00:18:32] As it was designed, he was set to hit three national parks, 13 14ers, 47 13ers, all 11 of Colorado's national forest designated areas, 29 wilderness areas, 8 wilderness study areas, 2 national monuments. So really just seeing a lot of Colorado. Yeah. I think there was a lot of people living vicariously there. Oh, yeah.

[00:18:55] I think there's people sad about the walk ending because they got a glimpse into their beloved state throughout this guy's trek. You know? Yeah, 100%. And you can find his Instagram. Everything's posted on the... There's an Instagram dedicated to the route itself called the Great Colorado Route. Find that there, but he was posting just daily videos. I was starting with that. Good morning, Colorado. And boom, there's his day, and it looked so awesome. I caught up with him when he was in Colorado Springs.

[00:19:25] I chatted with him about the route and kind of about his other through hiking experience. And yeah, seems it's not an easy task to do this type of a thing. And he did it. And I mean, it can't be stressed enough, too. This route wasn't a route that existed before he did this. Like, he pieced together... I mean, the trails were obviously there, but he pieced together this through hike based on what he thought would be a beautiful loop that people would want to recreate.

[00:19:54] And a lot of the... If you start watching his videos, you'll definitely see some familiar scenes, but you'll also see some stuff that you didn't even know was in Colorado. Oh, I bet. And I don't want to spoil it too much. I want people to go check it out because the videos are really good. But yeah, that routes 32 designated sections. So people that are interested in hiking this but maybe don't have months that they can take off to go do this. Segments. You could do segments, yeah. You could do some of these sections. Some of them are as short as about 20 miles and change or so.

[00:20:24] I think the longest section is right over 100 miles. But yeah, it's all on a website, too. Great Colorado route. Google it, you know, and you'll find that website. It has all the information about the different sections. Tons of information. You can see his route that he took based on his GPS tracker, too. So really, really cool stuff. It's quite an adventure, man. Mm-hmm. And I really like, too, like, I think it was when he was down with the Great Sand Dunes. Mm-hmm.

[00:20:52] I want to say he hopped on a historic route that Zebulon Pike had traveled, which is not a route that many people travel. You know? Yeah. And he paid really close attention to detail when he was designing this route to add little stretches like that on this route. Like historical. Yeah, yeah. And just things that, you know, people don't know about in a lot of ways. Also, it's very different than the Colorado Trail, too. So that's worth noting.

[00:21:22] He kept that in mind while he was designing this route and didn't want it to be like, oh, but half the route's the Colorado Trail. It's not like that. It is all the connections he's making. Very unique in terms of what exists already. There is some pretty technical terrain along the route. So I think any of the areas with the technical terrain, though, there is an option to go around him without having to do some of that, like, class three, class four stuff. So, yeah, very cool stuff.

[00:21:49] Lots of people are about to be asking off work for a long time. Right? Yeah, he's a – I want to say he's 29 years old, but end up in Golden is where he's calling home now. So, yeah, finished last Thursday. So congrats to Donovan on that accomplishment. And, yeah, surely something that's going to inspire a lot of people, even if they're not doing the full route, just inspire people to hit some of these other segments and these sections. The bounty of Colorado beauty.

[00:22:17] Didn't it go into this either without experience? He had a lot of through hiking experience prior to this. Yeah. He had hiked the Pacific Crest Trail, which a lot of people are aware of, and the Continental Divide Trail. The one trail that he was telling me about that he had hiked that I didn't even know existed, didn't even know people took it on, was the Eastern Continental Trail. It goes literally from Key West, Florida, all the way up to Newfoundland. Okay. So you're going – I think I've heard of that. Literally like almost 6,000 miles or so.

[00:22:47] So I think he said – I want to say that took him like nine months or something. Wow. But, yeah. So, yeah. Anyway, I was blown away just by like imagining what a 6,000-mile hike or whatever, 5,700-mile hike is. He's redefining what it means to get some steps in. Yeah, right. Yeah, I'll be – hopefully – good chance he'll pop on the podcast at some point. So maybe you'll get to hear more from him. Invite me. I'd love to meet him and catch up. Yeah. Cool stuff. So. Yeah. Yeah. You were going to say something there.

[00:23:17] I don't think I was. How long was it? How long was the – 141 days. 141 days. Yeah. Yeah. So – and it looks like on his Instagram right now, it looks like he's still getting some of those final videos put up. And so if you follow him right now, you'll – those will start popping up and you'll be able to see those last few days. Yeah. Sweet. Yeah. The route's wild. We'll get – we'll throw up a photo of it in the video for this. The rest of us were just sitting in our office. Mm-hmm. Dang. Yeah. Nice guy too. Cool. Good for him. Good for him. Yeah. Yeah. So what else we got here today?

[00:23:47] What else? You see the ice castles are not returning to Cripple Creek. Yeah. You know, I wasn't surprised, man. Well, it was an awful snow year for the state. Yep. And, I mean, not really being in that central mountain region, you know, I'd have to imagine Cripple Creek in general on a good year probably gets less snow than you'd be getting in Summit County anyway. I knew they were excited. Was it a few years ago? Was it three years ago when they started there? I was trying to remember. Either two or three.

[00:24:14] I know they were pretty pleased with conditions that first year and maybe the second year. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I remember wondering if it was just a little too remote, you know? Like, you kind of want to go to Cripple Creek compared to these other locations that they've gone to, like in Dillon. Yeah. Over the years. Silverthorne. Yeah. Silverthorne. Yeah. People are going by on I-70. Right by I-70. Yeah. There wasn't any mention of that in the announcement contributing to it. The announcement, like you said, was all about conditions.

[00:24:42] And I know, having talked with the owner and founder of the company, right, who has long overseen these multiple locations, you know, a warm winter can be devastating on their bottom line. Oh, I'd imagine. Yeah. I mean, it's pretty straightforward. They pay for a certain number of people and for a certain amount of water and power and

[00:25:10] housing and everything that goes along with that. And they count on being open for some days to fill the bottom line. So I got to think last year was just devastating on from a business perspective. Cripple Creek also alluded to, quote unquote, significant water issues. Yeah, water issues as well, which I mean, everywhere in Colorado is dry. Like I was up in Denver a couple of weeks ago and the menu at the restaurant was like, because of drought, we'll only give you water on request. Yeah.

[00:25:39] So like to show the extent of how just far-stretched that is. Yeah. And then also, I mean, like last year, this is some reporting from Nick Smith with the Gazette. But last year they opened in Cripple Creek, but they were delayed by about three and a half weeks. So they missed the Christmas season. Yeah. Which, yeah, I mean, you're right. Like I always, you do have to kind of want to go to Cripple Creek. And I mean, they do get their fair share of tourism for sure.

[00:26:06] But it is a little bit out of the way, you know, in terms of it, you got to make a turn and go 30 minutes down the road or so. Yeah. Right off Highway 24, definitely a good time of the year right now to be going up and visiting Cripple Creek, I will say. The colors. Yeah. I heard they were peaking over the weekend. Yeah. But yeah, no, I mean, it's a cool place, but it isn't right on the highway like Guy 70, you know, and Dylan and Southern Thorn. Yeah. I know that was really, all I heard when they were there was just how great it was for the local economy.

[00:26:35] You know, like I heard people describe it like probably winter in Cripple Creek hadn't been that busy since the gold rush was on, you know? I mean, I believe it. So I think it was, you know, it was from all accounts I heard was that it was good for business. So I bet people are thinking about that, what it's going to mean for the local economy this year. You know, what else is there to do during the winter in Cripple Creek? Because I mean, you have the ice festival, right? Right. They do that big ice festival. Yeah. I mean, it's a casino town. Yeah.

[00:27:05] People who know Cripple Creek, you know, they've got a big, beautiful new casino. They have the Chamonix. You've been impressive. You know, there's the troll. They all pump up the troll. Yeah. At Victor. Yeah. Yeah. I've kind of been curious. I think there's some talk in town about like expanding their outdoor recreation portfolio. You know? That'd be cool. Yeah. I mean, yeah. It's such a beautiful area. Yeah. Yeah. So I kind of want to have some more conversations about that.

[00:27:32] See what those minds are thinking there to expand their tourism a little bit. But Victor. Victor is awesome, man. Yeah. Victor is cool. Yeah. And those two go hand in hand. Yeah. They like you. Neighboring town. Yeah. Visit both when you go up there type of thing. Yeah. What's it? The Vindicator Loop that's up in Victor? Yeah. Is that the trail? It feels like a total step back in time. Yeah. Through the mining relics there, you know, old offices and shafts and frames that are still standing like that just look like they shouldn't still be there. You know? Right by the ongoing mine.

[00:28:02] The mine is still pulling gold. Yeah. It's good times to be pulling gold, man. It is. I was seeing the business, the company, like reported their economic activity of the past year. I can't remember the numbers, but big numbers. Yeah. Big numbers. Yeah. Yeah. Cool part of the state. Sad to see the ice castles. Have you seen anything about Silverthorne? So I was trying to figure that out before the show. I haven't seen any sort of announcement that they're there. I would anticipate that they probably will be somewhere in that area, you know, just because

[00:28:29] they've been in Summit County for so many years now and successfully in Summit County for so many years now. So, but we'll see. Yeah. I've heard he, again, going back to like the guy who started all this, he's always told me like how much they love being in Colorado. It just feels like Colorado fits them. So. And are they out of Minnesota originally? It's like out of Utah. Utah. Yeah. All right. Utah. They got locations in Minnesota typically. Mm-hmm. Wisconsin, I want to say. New Hampshire, I want to say. Didn't they have one in, I want to say Avon or something one time?

[00:29:00] Eagle? Eagle. Eagle. Yeah, Eagle. Fairly recently. Yeah. Yeah. And so when they said significant water issues, I guess the official statement is regarding drought and water use. I know when it was in Dillon, that was a big concern was, you know, people like, you know, in a time of, that we are in, is this the best use of our resources, right? I know that's a big question.

[00:29:25] I was also hearing in Dillon that there was some concerns about runoff and what erosion and melt off. Mm-hmm. So I didn't know if that's what Cripple Creek was alluding to. I have no reason to think that at all. I just remember hearing a lot of that talk in Dillon for why they didn't return to Dillon. Yeah. Also at a time when they were revamping that, that park. So there was that too. Yeah. I'm trying to see. Yeah. I mean, it says, here's the quote kind of addressing the water issues that's in this gazette piece.

[00:29:55] Mm-hmm. With the drought and all the fires, we just want to be mindful of our water usage and also what message that sends to other communities who are struggling with water. So, yeah. There we go. Makes sense. There was interest in, there was also official statement about hope to bring it back. Yeah. It sounds like that's out there too. Very cool. Yeah. So moving on from that. Yeah. Get into a couple spooky, spooky topics before we. I like continuing our trend of spooky. Too far in. Yeah.

[00:30:24] In October. I like it. And with this one, I think we're revisiting an old favorite of both Seth and myself, Snippy the Horse. What a story. What a story. I mean, it's an irresistible tale out of the San Luis Valley. Yeah. The forever, often called the Bermuda Triangle of the West. Yes. I've heard the San Luis Valley called that before. The UFO watchtowers there. Yeah.

[00:30:50] People, you know, they say they see things in the skies and a little bit of unexplained activity. San Luis Valley was mentioned in one of those federal UAP reports that we had talked about. I think I want to say it was San Luis Valley. If not, it was, there was a document that we covered a while back where there was some an investigation of an official investigation into some of the UFO activity. Snippy the Horse, though. Yeah. Tell us. What a slam dunk. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:20] A story, right? I've heard it described like that. Like, in terms of when it comes to extraterrestrial research, there's a sector of this research of mutilation cases, right? And I've heard this one called like a slam dunk when it comes to cattle mutilation. Yeah. Yeah. In this case, we're talking about a horse. The horse's name was actually Lady, in my understanding. And Lady did not return home to the stable one day in 1967, I want to say. Yep. Yep.

[00:31:48] And she was found in a brutal condition. Again, I hesitate getting into details for anyone who might be eating lunch or something at this hour. But a very grisly scene and a very bizarre one, right? You remember some of these details? Found defleshed, right? And like, weren't they talking about like some surgical incisions or surgical style incisions? The organs seemingly vanished or melted away, as I heard it described.

[00:32:18] There were parts of the body that looked like it just was suctioned away, right? Leading some to believe that this couldn't be the work of man or natural forces as we know them. Yeah. Very exposed bones said to be like white, like they had been sitting in the sun for years. And then there were reports of a, like a sweet sticky smell or something like that. Yeah. And there were scorch marks seen on the ground. Yeah.

[00:32:48] As some say. Right? Wild stuff. The horse's footprints apparently ended about 100 feet from where their remains were found too. So, also interesting. I remember visiting Snippy's skeleton at the UFO watchtower and the caretaker there pointing out a part of the skull. And she said, this is where they suctioned out the brain. Yeah. There's tales like these around Snippy the horse.

[00:33:14] As you maybe remember, a report commissioned by the Air Force determined no foul play or mysterious play. I think it alluded to some injuries that would have allowed magpies or maggots to eat away the insides that were missing. Yeah. Sorry, I'm getting gruesome here, but it is a gruesome tale. It is a gruesome tale. There's no other way to tell it.

[00:33:42] I mean, and some of the stuff too, you know, it's like if it's all true, if like the scene is actually as it was described with the scorch marks, cauterized wounds, weird smell, green gelatin glue found at the scene. It's interesting. It's interesting. What's going on here, man? What happened that day at King Ranch? Yeah. Later, I guess there was a veteran, a local vet who pointed to bullet holes in the body.

[00:34:12] And his theory was that the horse was shot or spooked and took off running and ran through like a wire fencing. And the way he put it was, I've seen this happen to horses where they can just get cleanly sliced like cheese. This is the little bit of cheese. Yeah. So, but there are some people in the San Luis Valley to this day will tell you, they know exactly what it was and they look to the sky.

[00:34:41] And so I will say too, another detail though. So this one comes from Westward, right? Westward reported that a US Forest Service ranger used a Geiger counter and found that the area around the carcass was highly radioactive. Adding to the suspiciousness. Lots of details. Wire fences are not highly radioactive in most cases. Not last I checked. So, yeah, very. Not last I checked. Yeah, there was a fella who wrote a book touching on this.

[00:35:11] His name was Christopher O'Brien. I'm going to double check that. Yeah, Christopher O'Brien. And, you know, he's done research into a phenomenon like this, like nationwide. And I remember, you know, he considered himself like a dispassionate, objective observer when it came to mutilation cases, as they're known.

[00:35:36] But like I said, I remember him telling me like, this one just seems like a slam dunk, you know, like something that's just too, too bizarre. Too bizarre. Yeah. And to put it in perspective, too, that author has reportedly investigated over a thousand different UAP or paranormal reports down in the San Luis Valley alone since like the 90s. So, yeah.

[00:36:04] Very famous case went far beyond the San Luis Valley. I love the, like I said, the horse's name was Lady. It was a, my understanding is it was a local reporter who gave the name, the catchy name Snippy. Snippy. And that reporter's report alluded to her owner blaming a flying saucer or at least a radioactive surgeon. Hmm. And the news went wild. You know. There you go.

[00:36:31] It went all, it went all over the country and remains a pretty famous case. And last I checked, yeah, you can still go see Snippy the skeleton at the UFO watchtower. Cool little spot. Fittingly at the UFO watchtower. Yeah. Quirky spot to visit either way, too. It's, it's, it's cool little thing out there. Yeah. Um, and I think you, can't you stay overnight? There's a campground, right? Yeah. There's a campground there. Um, and then they also have this little lofted, like a deck that's on top of the building, I think. Right.

[00:37:01] Um, it's either on top or over to the side, but it's a raised area where you can gather with, um, other, uh, other enthusiasts and, uh, look for, look for oddities in the night sky. Mm-hmm. Um, before we get off the show here today, let's get into, uh, some of these Colorado themed horror movies. Mm-hmm. Um, so we talk about movies that are filmed in or based around Colorado quite a bit. Yeah. But since it's October, uh, I wanted to talk about a few horror movies.

[00:37:30] So fill us in some, some recommendations for the season, right? Yeah. So my, my favorite Colorado themed spooky movie, uh, to watch around this time of the year is the black phone set in the Denver suburbs. Fairly recent one. Yeah. Um, bring my, brought myself to watch that. It's, it's creepy. It's creepy. It's disturbing. Um, but it's, uh, about a 13 year old boy who's, who's abducted by a sadistic serial killer.

[00:37:54] Um, and, uh, I'll leave it at that, but, uh, it's set in, uh, set in an unnamed Denver suburb in 1978, uh, inspired by where the director Scott, uh, Derrickson grew up. So, and they actually did just come out with a second one too. Yeah. Uh, that was, I saw it was highly rated. Um, but yeah, black phone two, uh, it takes place at, I believe a, a made up in a made up town or made up camp in summit County. Yeah.

[00:38:24] The Alpine Lake youth camp. So it was not filmed in summit County. It was actually filmed in Ontario, but, uh, either way it's four years after the original one. So there's two movies for you that have Colorado ties, uh, both of which are highly reviewed on Rotten Tomatoes. What do you got, Seth? I mean, I gotta go shining, man. Of course we got to, it was a fairly loose connection, right? Uh, pretty strong. Yeah. Yeah. I guess inspired it. Of course. Right.

[00:38:53] Um, Stephen King stay at the Stanley hotel, which is like, you're right. Strong connection. I guess I meant like, it's not like it was filmed there or based there. Yeah. A lot of people, a lot of people think it was, but it was not like in the hedge maze scene, you know, uh, also not filmed in Colorado, but now there is a hedge maze that you can, uh, you can walk around at, uh, at the Stanley hotel. But yeah, that's a good one. Red rum, red rum. Yep. It's classic. You got, you got to mention that one. Yes.

[00:39:21] Um, so here's another one, uh, that I don't know if it counts as horror, maybe horror slash action, but, uh, aliens versus predator requiem is, uh, it's set in, uh, set in, uh, uh, Gunnison, Colorado. So I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a rule. I think also maybe a made up town. Um, but yeah, rule Colorado. So that's a, uh, that's a good one. If you want to just watch some action, you know?

[00:39:51] Um, also I'll always know what you did last summer. It was the third, third movie of the, uh, I know he did last summer franchise. Uh, but that one is set in Colorado as well in a, in a fake town also. So these movies love their fake towns. Here's a curve ball. I just had to do, make sure I was remembering this. All right. Some might call it not creepy. I call it absolutely creepy.

[00:40:16] And that is Michael Keaton as Jack Frost in 1990. I mean, you can't tell me that that's not absolutely scary. Your dad tragically dies and comes back as a snowman. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not about that. Yeah. Yeah. Most people think it's Christmas movie, Christmas movie, but nope. So it is, it is scary. So that is like, apparently, uh, they, they, the family lives in a fictional snowy Colorado town. Hmm.

[00:40:46] I remember for some reason, last time I watched it, last time I mustered the strength to watch that terrifying movie. Um, it looked like Telluride. Yeah. I remember just thinking like, or your way or something. I just remember thinking like, they're like in this secluded Colorado mountain town in winter and, and Michael Keaton comes back to haunt everyone as Jack Frost. Very interesting. Not exactly. Yeah. He comes to help.

[00:41:14] He comes, he comes, he comes to provide some closure, but all it did for me was give me more nightmares. Well, after, uh, that, that terrifying suggestion, which is, is quite scary. Um, man, that's Jack Frost. Well, so Denver has some ties to a return of the Ghostbusters, right? Set and filmed in Denver. Yeah. Um, so if you consider Ghostbusters, a horror movie or a scary movie, um, maybe a little bit more family friendly, but, um, either way, that's another one.

[00:41:43] Um, we have a cinephile in the studio here, Tim. We do. Do we have, Tim, you got any recommendations? I put them on the spot. You put them on the spot. That's what we do. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Um, I do have a list from Piper here too that I can get into while Tim's thinking. So, so Cannibal, the musical, is a dark comedy film based on Alfred Packer.

[00:42:12] And it was, uh, created by the South Park creators back in 1993. Oh, yeah. So, kind of one of their, their first, uh, projects, we'll say, uh, prior to their famous television show. Mm-hmm. Um, also Snow Beast, 1977 TV film. Snow Beast. Uh, it was filmed at, at Colorado locations, including, uh, Crested Butte ski resort. Oh, really? Um, apparently the Snow Beast, which is described here as a enormous and angry Bigfoot creature,

[00:42:41] terrorizes a ski resort during a winter carnival. Oh, wow. I didn't know about that one. But I feel like Crested Butte should lean into that. Mm-hmm. I mean, that sounds pretty sweet, man. Yeah. I mean, awful, but awesome, you know? Yeah. Like, 1977. Snow Beast. I'm gonna have to watch that for sure. Surely there's, like, a snow plow out there called Snow Beast, right? There's gotta be. There's gotta be. But, um, cool. Well, yeah, I think, uh. Didn't think I was gonna be talking about Jack Frost today. Yeah, there you go. 1998, I wanna say. I think that's one of the movies, too, where you can look it up on YouTube and you get,

[00:43:09] like, the creepy trailer where they've, like, someone's edited it to make it a creepy movie. See, I'm not the only one. Yeah. No, yeah, that's, uh, other people have also been disturbed. By that one, for sure. Oh, Misery. Oh. Yeah, Misery. Oh, that's a big one. Yeah. Misery. Another Stephen King. Shout out to Tim with that, that, uh. Right. Yeah, that suggestion there. Yeah, um. Yeah, where does it take place? I think it is a fiction. I think you're right. It's been so long since I've seen that one.

[00:43:40] Yeah, same. Um. Silver Creek, Colorado. Okay. So, there again, yeah. Oh, it's a mining ghost town. All right. Gotcha. That makes, that tracks. Mm-hmm. Stephen King found lots of inspiration in Colorado. Mm-hmm. The remoteness and the treachery of the terrain, maybe. He thought a perfect place for, for a, uh, a crazy fan to, uh, take her favorite author captive. Mm-hmm. That's a good movie. Pretty crazy movie. Yeah, pretty crazy. Um, I'm surprised you haven't seen a remake of that one, to be honest. Yeah.

[00:44:09] Probably only a matter of time. Only a matter of time. Carrie, out this week. Mm-hmm. Speaking of remakes. Yeah. I think I saw that right. Stephen King remakes. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, probably, probably gonna be worth checking out. But, all right, cool. I think that's about all I got for today. We cover all of our bases, man. Yeah. Not only do we do outdoors, we get a little food, we get some pop culture in here. A little bit of movies. Yep. A little bit of outdoor recreation. A little bit of history. Shout out to, uh, Donovan Rice again. Definitely go check out his, uh, his, uh, Instagram page for a really cool look at Colorado.

[00:44:37] Great Colorado route is where you'll find it. So, um, awesome. Yeah. You got anything else? Good, man. All right. Well, hey, until next time, I'm Spencer. I'm Seth. We'll see you out there.