A 'new' ski area?; Cloning a vicious predator; Coyote attacks child; Private 14er; & More...

In this episode of the OutThere Colorado Podcast, Spencer and Seth chat about the 'new life' of a ski area, a predator that's being cloned, a brutal coyote attack, hiking reservations on a private 14er, our 2025 bucket lists, and more.

[00:00:00] Welcome to the OutThere Colorado Podcast. I'm Spencer Rakeet and I'm here today with Seth Foster. Hey guys. And we've got some interesting stuff to chat about. First thing I want to chat about is a press release that just went out like minutes ago. We're recording this on Monday morning so whenever you're listening this just came out on Monday morning. It deals with a ski resort or ski area in Colorado that has long been closed at least in its full capacity. But that might be

[00:00:30] changing soon. Seth, what do you got on that? Yeah, so this has been quite the saga of Kuchara Mountain Park as it is now called. This is the former historic base of the resort there that ran several starts and stops through the decades up until 2000 right when operators finally abandoned then flash forward to I think it was 2017 when there was a grassroots fundraising effort there locally around Kuchara.

[00:01:00] Seth, to acquire the 50 acres to acquire the 50 acres that were private property right down by La Vida Southern Colorado. You got it. Yep. Beautiful Spanish Peaks country to acquire that land and then pass it on to the county to oversee and that kind of gave way to years and years of back and forth on how things should operate there how things shouldn't operate there. But always this big dream of restoring

[00:01:29] the chairlift that sits there. The chairlift that sits there at the base to get folks up the mountain. The past couple winters now people have been able to pay to get a ride on what they call the ski bus. There's this non-profit that's formed around Kuchara Mountain Park. That's Panadero Ski Corp.

[00:01:49] And they run people up this ski bus that's pulled by a snow cap. I think it's like 40 bucks this year to get a ride up there. It's kind of a rootsy thing through that place.

[00:01:59] So looking at their website, Park was originally opened in 1981 and then stopped lift operations around 2000.

[00:02:06] Yeah.

[00:02:06] I believe, yeah.

[00:02:07] Yeah. And quite the, you know, all these investors with grand plans coming in and Mother Nature didn't have quite the same grand plans there in Southern Colorado.

[00:02:15] Yeah. Not super consistent snowed.

[00:02:17] Yeah. So, you know, it's kind of one of those classic stories of climate and economics, right?

[00:02:25] That just led to the demise there over the years.

[00:02:28] But anyway, there's, yeah, this new hope to revive a kind of small scope of skiing, right?

[00:02:36] Using that ski bus.

[00:02:37] And anyway, back to the press release.

[00:02:40] This is the state really throwing its weight behind this vision like we haven't seen before.

[00:02:47] $250,000 grant to help things out over there for infrastructure, they're calling it.

[00:02:54] But yeah, for this winter anyway, as far as I know, it's going to look just like things did last winter with that ski bus.

[00:03:01] And after storms, people driving over there and hiking up and skiing down at their own risk and pleasure.

[00:03:09] Well, in days they don't get on the bus.

[00:03:10] To put a little bit of perspective on it too, the press release says it's going to be seven runs perfect for kids, beginners, and families.

[00:03:17] So, you're not talking about, you know, like the double black diamond stuff.

[00:03:21] I think backcountry skiing though is really popular in the area.

[00:03:23] But obviously, backcountry skiing, you can kind of go when the snow is good.

[00:03:27] Not necessarily have to have all that snow all season.

[00:03:31] It is surrounded by national forests there too.

[00:03:34] It's beautiful.

[00:03:35] I mean, the views that you get on just that little hill, it really is gorgeous.

[00:03:41] Yeah, it's been quite the saga over there, man.

[00:03:43] Like, I've been covering things there for some years now.

[00:03:49] And, you know, there's been some tension, like I had mentioned about, you know, just what the operation should look like there.

[00:03:56] And who should be the one overseeing that operation.

[00:04:00] Right now, you know, I talked to the sides over there last week.

[00:04:04] And it seems like things are getting to a smoother place between the nonprofit and the county who owns that property.

[00:04:10] And they kind of see them.

[00:04:12] They've been working on this extended memorandum of understanding for years now.

[00:04:17] And they're finally at a point where they feel like they can get to a long-term agreement.

[00:04:23] And, you know, there's other examples of nonprofits running ski areas that are owned by a municipality.

[00:04:29] And they're kind of looking into that model for the long-term future.

[00:04:33] And, yeah, this money from the state is obviously a really big win for the vision over there.

[00:04:40] Yeah, it was part of the U.S. Economic Development Administration's State Tourism Grant.

[00:04:46] So, 3.7 million went out, I think, to different projects around Far Raya.

[00:04:53] So, it's 49 projects, 27 counties.

[00:04:56] And an emphasis on, you know, I'm reading here, like, you know, underserved communities, underserved youth.

[00:05:02] That's another big aspect of the vision there, particularly underserved youth.

[00:05:07] You know, Huarfano County being one of the poorest counties in Colorado.

[00:05:12] Obviously, that comes with challenges for reviving, when you're talking about reviving a ski area, right?

[00:05:18] Hence this agreement with a nonprofit that can hopefully raise money, carry the insurance, and bring in some kind of revenue.

[00:05:25] They have tickets, for example, special events to kind of run things going forward there.

[00:05:32] But, yeah, definitely kind of a hope for serving kids who may otherwise not be able to get up to a ski area.

[00:05:41] Yeah, well, and also kind of looking into one of the big reasons why this skier has had some trouble lately, right, is the lift, right?

[00:05:50] Is it a lift has been kind of, like, out of commission for a while with some issues there?

[00:05:55] Yep.

[00:05:56] Any update on that at all?

[00:06:00] You know, I've been hearing the same thing for years, man.

[00:06:02] Like, it's just requiring money.

[00:06:05] And obviously, there is a certifying board here in Colorado.

[00:06:08] Colorado is pretty unique for that nationally, for having a board that goes in, a government arm that goes in and certifies lifts.

[00:06:16] Makes sense.

[00:06:17] Yep.

[00:06:17] Probably a good thing.

[00:06:18] Glad that makes sense.

[00:06:20] Lesson of you for what we do.

[00:06:21] Okay, so my understanding is they just haven't even gotten to a point where they feel comfortable getting, you know, requesting that certification yet.

[00:06:29] There's just money that needs to go into it to get this thing in that working order.

[00:06:34] But I think this is part of that hope, right, that this grant can put some funding into the repairs and upgrades that need to happen to that old chairlift.

[00:06:45] Yeah, and this press release is saying the first day of the ski season is set for December 14, which is pretty early.

[00:06:50] I mean, this part of the state's had some, like, they've hit some all-time highs for their snowpack at various points in this season already in the Arkansas River Basin.

[00:07:00] But, yeah, but still, December 14 in Southern Colorado.

[00:07:02] Can't imagine there's a ton of snow.

[00:07:04] So they're snowmaking.

[00:07:06] Yeah, oh, they have snowmaking.

[00:07:07] Oh, nice.

[00:07:08] That's another, you know, part of their fundraising.

[00:07:10] They've upgraded.

[00:07:11] They've got a couple, I was told they have a couple new snow guns and then, like, 1,200 feet a new line of pipe.

[00:07:16] Racks.

[00:07:17] So they're really, you know, I mean, to that hard question of, hey, the conditions that doom this place, how do you overcome that?

[00:07:24] And they very much like to talk about we are focusing on these small 50 acres right now.

[00:07:30] We just want to get these, what is it, seven runs?

[00:07:32] We just want a little help from Mother Nature, and we're hoping that snowmaking has progressed over time, has developed over time.

[00:07:41] That's good enough to cover these 50 acres.

[00:07:45] And that's kind of where their focus is right now.

[00:07:47] It's not like these other big investors coming in and having this big resort idea.

[00:07:52] They have a very small focus and also a year-round focus.

[00:07:56] They want to get, like, mountain bike trails.

[00:07:57] Yeah, that's what I was about to mention.

[00:07:59] You know, it's like in places where the snowpack might not be as consistent.

[00:08:02] I mean, that could just mean the summer season goes longer in a way or the fall season goes longer.

[00:08:06] Because there's some, like, lakes in the area around.

[00:08:08] Yeah.

[00:08:09] Some hiking and a little town there that's pretty close.

[00:08:12] Yeah, and that drive, Highway of Legends, continuing on.

[00:08:17] Yeah, it's really, it's a scenic drive that people will talk about, but it's gorgeous.

[00:08:20] Yeah, yeah.

[00:08:21] Nice.

[00:08:21] Well, there you go.

[00:08:22] Maybe there's an interesting new little ski area to check out in Southern Colorado.

[00:08:25] Yeah.

[00:08:26] I mean, all the people in Southern Colorado are pretty far from any other skiing opportunity.

[00:08:31] Yep.

[00:08:31] Like, what's the clip?

[00:08:33] Like Salida, maybe?

[00:08:34] Like, Monarch Mountain?

[00:08:36] Maybe that's the place.

[00:08:37] I was going to say, if you're a Pueblo, you're heading all over to Monarch.

[00:08:40] Yeah.

[00:08:40] But that was another factor of, you know, I mean, you could talk about that for better or for worse, right?

[00:08:47] I mean, the opportunity, but also this place being removed from major population centers.

[00:08:53] You know, it's not like it's I-70, you know, that leads to Kuchara.

[00:08:56] You got to want to go there.

[00:08:57] Yeah.

[00:08:58] Yeah.

[00:08:58] I mean, let's look up.

[00:08:59] How far is that even from Colorado's friends?

[00:09:01] Let's say we're driving our way down.

[00:09:04] I want to say two hours and 19 minutes.

[00:09:07] Yeah.

[00:09:07] Two hours and 19 minutes.

[00:09:09] Very close.

[00:09:10] Two hours and 15 minutes.

[00:09:12] Ooh.

[00:09:12] Seth driving a little slow there.

[00:09:17] Big driver.

[00:09:17] It's a very sick driver.

[00:09:18] But yeah, so there you go.

[00:09:19] That's an interesting plot twist, so to speak.

[00:09:22] It was a stake getting involved.

[00:09:24] What else we got here?

[00:09:26] You were writing something that was very fascinating about some cloned animals.

[00:09:30] So in Colorado, this is something that you've been following for a while.

[00:09:34] The black-footed ferret.

[00:09:36] They thought this animal was so rare, they thought it was extinct at one point, correct?

[00:09:40] And then they ended up finding some of them a couple decades ago.

[00:09:44] And they were like, oh, never mind.

[00:09:45] I guess we should try to save this species.

[00:09:48] So yeah, tell us about some of that.

[00:09:50] Another saga that we'd be getting into there.

[00:09:53] So yeah, thought to be extinct up until native to the West, relies on prairie dogs, right?

[00:10:02] The Blackfoot Affair does for their food and also their home, like the burrowing tunnels.

[00:10:07] That's where they thrive.

[00:10:08] And Westwood expansion came with, you know, the prairie getting converted to agricultural fields.

[00:10:15] There's even a government-led campaign to wipe out prairie dogs.

[00:10:19] And one thing after another led to black-footed ferrets believed to be extinct.

[00:10:24] Up until 1981, when a ranch dog comes by one of these feisty little predators.

[00:10:34] Gets in what I imagine to be a pretty feisty fight with his little guy.

[00:10:39] And that leads biologists to find 18 on this ranch in Wyoming.

[00:10:46] 18 dwindled down quickly to 7 for what became a breeding program, you know, breeding these ferrets and trying to restore the population.

[00:10:57] Flash forward a little bit.

[00:10:59] That effort has struggled mightily, you know.

[00:11:05] I was told, like, since 1981, I think they've bred.

[00:11:10] And to be clear, this is like a West-wide, you know, national-level program.

[00:11:16] But over that time, they've bred, like, 11,000 ferrets.

[00:11:19] And today, there's believed to be, like, hundreds alive in the wild.

[00:11:25] You know, maybe, maybe 300 to 500 in the wild.

[00:11:29] And then hundreds more in captivity for the breeding program.

[00:11:32] Well, and they've released a few hundred into Colorado over there.

[00:11:35] Right.

[00:11:35] Yep.

[00:11:36] And one after another, I mean, some of those releases have led to complete collapses because of plague.

[00:11:43] Plague is a big, is the big enemy to the black-footed ferrets.

[00:11:47] It's, they just have not been able to overcome plague, which also can wipe out prairie dog colonies real quick.

[00:11:53] So that kind of gives you the idea of the struggle, right, to get this population back in order.

[00:11:59] And here we are to your point about cloning.

[00:12:02] This idea came along to clone the black-footed ferret.

[00:12:06] And to be clear, the idea was not based on cloning a bunch of black-footed ferrets to bring numbers back up.

[00:12:15] Right.

[00:12:15] The idea was to bring back a genetic line into the current population.

[00:12:24] So I mentioned those seven founders, we can call them.

[00:12:29] Those seven founders of the genetic pool of the hundreds of black-footed ferrets alive today.

[00:12:35] That's a very narrow genetic pool that worries, that has long worried biologists who know you want...

[00:12:42] That makes sense.

[00:12:43] You know what someone told me?

[00:12:45] Someone said, it's kind of as simple as do you want to marry your first cousin, right?

[00:12:50] You know the perils of this.

[00:12:52] Yes.

[00:12:54] Biologically speaking, a larger genetic pool means greater fertility.

[00:13:03] It means greater adaptability.

[00:13:06] The ability to adapt.

[00:13:07] To adapt to things like disease, right?

[00:13:11] To a changing environment.

[00:13:13] And so that's what scientists that thought black-footed ferrets need.

[00:13:16] They need a greater genetic pool to try...

[00:13:20] In hopes of adapting to this new world that they live in.

[00:13:23] Well, just think about like dogs, right?

[00:13:25] But you can tell with like...

[00:13:26] When dogs are like purebred dogs or whatever, you can agree.

[00:13:29] You can see the impacts over time.

[00:13:32] Great point.

[00:13:32] Oh yeah, what happens there with species just...

[00:13:35] I mean, look at photos of certain species from like a pub.

[00:13:38] You'll find a photo from like 1920 of the pub and look at a pub now.

[00:13:42] And they're very like it's...

[00:13:44] Yeah, tell that pub in 1920 at a little bit better odds of surviving.

[00:13:48] So it's...

[00:13:48] Yeah, that's a great point.

[00:13:50] That definitely brings it down to earth really well.

[00:13:54] But so anyway, lo and behold, they found out some cells of a ferret named Willa

[00:14:02] were frozen and preserved in what's called San Diego's Frozen's,

[00:14:07] which has like a bunch of genetic material of animals over in decades.

[00:14:11] That's very cryopreserved in liquid nitrogen.

[00:14:14] And so Willa's cells were seen as hopes of reintroducing an eighth founder

[00:14:20] into the genetic pool, if you follow, right?

[00:14:23] Oh yeah.

[00:14:23] Her genes were not represented among the hundreds of black-footed ferrets today.

[00:14:27] So using her, not to get into the nitty-gritty of the signs,

[00:14:31] but very essentially using her genes, her cells, they cloned her.

[00:14:38] They...

[00:14:39] Kira Colorado at the National Conservation Center north of Fort Collins

[00:14:44] toward the Wyoming border.

[00:14:46] This was in 2020.

[00:14:47] They cloned Willa and she...

[00:14:49] Willa's clone, Elizabeth Ann, is happy and alive still today, I'm told.

[00:14:55] People go and visit her through the window.

[00:14:58] Dang, that's pretty...

[00:14:59] It's like some Jurassic Park stuff.

[00:15:01] No doubt.

[00:15:02] Yeah.

[00:15:02] And then more recently, just last month, in Virginia at the Smithsonian Zoo there,

[00:15:08] they announced the first offspring of a clone.

[00:15:13] Also based on Willa.

[00:15:15] So this clone named Antonia?

[00:15:19] Is that it?

[00:15:20] Anyway.

[00:15:21] Antonia.

[00:15:22] Antonia.

[00:15:22] Sorry if I mispronounce your name and you're listening, Antonia.

[00:15:28] She reproduced, unlike Elizabeth Ann.

[00:15:30] Elizabeth Ann struggled to mate and reproduce.

[00:15:34] But Antonia, sorry, did.

[00:15:37] And that's major.

[00:15:38] They think that, you know, because that was always kind of the upshot.

[00:15:41] That spread the genes, right?

[00:15:44] Keep one generation after another.

[00:15:47] So yeah, that's kind of the most recent thing.

[00:15:49] Dang.

[00:15:50] So everyone of you has.

[00:15:51] Yeah, right?

[00:15:51] That's pretty wild.

[00:15:52] It's very sci-fi from that standpoint of the day about this, like, genetic diversity aspect.

[00:15:57] They did not just like, we're just going to make a bunch of clones and release them.

[00:16:00] Yeah.

[00:16:01] And the company who does the cloning, it's called Viagen Pets.

[00:16:06] They've been cloning people's pet dogs and cats and farm animals before this government initiative collaboration went to them and said, do you think you could clone the Black Hood Fair?

[00:16:18] I believe this man a bit odd when he hears stories about people cloning their pets.

[00:16:23] Yeah.

[00:16:23] I know.

[00:16:24] I know.

[00:16:24] It's like, but Viagen, he creeped out.

[00:16:27] Viagen, you know, that was like his first thing was like, we're not interested in cloning and cloning and cloning and cloning.

[00:16:33] We're interested in spreading the genetic diversity and seeing if it can work.

[00:16:37] Like, the most important thing now is that, I mean, can this, can these kits, these offspring, Antonia's male and female, can they go on to mate and more importantly live in the wild?

[00:16:53] Meanwhile, there's some water planet in the galaxy and they're building an army of black folks.

[00:16:58] They're going to colonize.

[00:17:00] Quinn, as an entire clones reference.

[00:17:04] Star Wars reference, really.

[00:17:06] Yeah.

[00:17:06] So, so, yeah, it's kind of, kind of interesting.

[00:17:09] There's, there's some critics to it, right?

[00:17:11] I mean, there's, there's some who say, you know, let's put our resources, time, money and effort into habitat restoration, which is what ultimately matters.

[00:17:22] There's other people, you know, you, you, what's the quote from Jurassic Park?

[00:17:26] Your scientists were, were so preoccupied on whether or not, if they could, they didn't stop to think if they should.

[00:17:33] Oh, yeah.

[00:17:34] You know, are there ramifications to this?

[00:17:37] If you're a prairie dog, you probably have some, uh, some angry u-bots about it.

[00:17:41] That's one thing people don't realize, if there's black foot of ferrets, every time I'm like, I'd look into them, their ability to kill prairie dogs is like off the charts.

[00:17:49] Like, they, they always have these, like, press releases.

[00:17:52] Yeah, right?

[00:17:53] They have these, like, press releases that come out from Colorado Parks and Wildlife, where they're like, today we released 15 new ferrets into this beautiful prairie dog rich landscape.

[00:18:02] And I'm like, ooh, you think about a prairie dog?

[00:18:04] Yeah, right.

[00:18:04] You're a very empathetic person.

[00:18:05] Yeah.

[00:18:06] Um, they are very cute.

[00:18:08] I'm gonna look up how many prairie dogs.

[00:18:10] When, when those press releases come, you see very cute photos of these black foot of ferrets.

[00:18:14] They are, they are undeniably very cute.

[00:18:16] Don't go try to pick it up.

[00:18:19] Here we go.

[00:18:20] How many, in the wild, 90% of a black footed ferret's diet is prairie dogs, and one ferret meet over 100 prairie dogs in a year.

[00:18:29] Wow.

[00:18:30] So, one ferret family meets 250 prairie dogs per year, so, whatever that means.

[00:18:37] Like, we're just the sunning, so it must be fairly accurate.

[00:18:40] Yeah.

[00:18:41] Another thing I know with the cloning.

[00:18:44] That's very interesting, at least to me.

[00:18:47] So, um, again, not to get into the nitty gritty of the science, but essentially it's injecting that cell line Willis genetic material into an egg to be carried by not a black footed ferret, but a domestic ferret.

[00:19:02] Hmm.

[00:19:03] Hmm.

[00:19:32] Right.

[00:19:33] The scientists are very much, the proponents are very much like, by, if we want to talk about DNA, we are talking about 99.9999% black footed ferret, you know.

[00:19:43] Right.

[00:19:44] And, you know, by all accounts, the clones very much act like black footed ferrets, like skittish, feisty black footed ferrets and not friendly, curious domestic ferrets.

[00:19:54] But that's kind of another thing that is under, you know, the research scope, if you will.

[00:19:59] Dang.

[00:19:59] Well, there we go.

[00:20:00] So, more.

[00:20:00] Kind of a trip.

[00:20:01] Yep.

[00:20:02] More black footed ferrets might to come into Colorado.

[00:20:05] Warren on the prairie dogs.

[00:20:06] I don't even know.

[00:20:07] More black footed ferret news than maybe you, dear listeners, care to hear about.

[00:20:12] Well, and that's all happening out on the eastern plains mostly.

[00:20:14] Yep.

[00:20:14] Right?

[00:20:15] Yep.

[00:20:15] Yeah.

[00:20:15] So, hey, I mean, I'm about to bring up another topic, also kind of in southern Colorado eastern plains area where we don't chat about it too much.

[00:20:22] So, kind of interesting, three stories in a row.

[00:20:26] Yeah.

[00:20:26] So, I was going to talk about Calabria Peak.

[00:20:30] Ooh.

[00:20:30] Yeah.

[00:20:31] So, you've done that one.

[00:20:32] Yeah.

[00:20:32] I've climbed it on the 14er down kind of in southern Colorado at Celio Vista Ranch.

[00:20:39] So, it's the only private access 14er in the state.

[00:20:42] It reaches an elevation of 14,053 feet.

[00:20:48] The real twist there is the only way to climb this mountain is you have to pay a $150 reservation fee.

[00:20:57] And then there's a few pretty strict rules there too, right?

[00:21:00] You got to show up at exactly 6 a.m. essentially to be let in the gate with everyone else climbing it that day.

[00:21:06] Usually there's a handful of people.

[00:21:08] I mean, they have more than 10 people a day on this mountain.

[00:21:12] But they let you through the gate of this ranch.

[00:21:14] And then you're able to climb that mountain.

[00:21:16] I think it's Red Mountain is also.

[00:21:17] It's a centennial peak.

[00:21:19] One of the top 100 in the state that's beside it.

[00:21:22] So, a lot of people do both of those.

[00:21:24] But, yeah.

[00:21:25] Either way, each year kind of around this time, they release these reservations for the next year.

[00:21:31] Those reservations are officially released at this point.

[00:21:35] They'll be available from Friday through Sunday for the first week of January through the last weekend of July.

[00:21:42] So, pretty interesting.

[00:21:43] I think, mm-hmm.

[00:21:44] And especially, so this hike itself is like, I think if you can get to the upper trailhead, I think it's like five miles round trip.

[00:21:52] And there's no trails though either.

[00:21:53] So, that's something to kind of keep in mind.

[00:21:55] I was going to ask about that.

[00:21:56] Yeah.

[00:21:56] Once you go across that trailhead, yeah, there's no specific route.

[00:22:00] So, they actually ask you to kind of take two different routes when you go up the mountain.

[00:22:04] And then you can return down the mountain just to limit concentration of damage, for example.

[00:22:10] But, yeah.

[00:22:11] So, one big twist there is that with this season ending in like late July on a big snow year, which especially in southern Colorado right now, we are having a big snow year already.

[00:22:20] So, if this continues, it could mean that a lot of these hikers are going to be essentially in winter conditions when they're hiking.

[00:22:28] So, that's something to keep in mind if you're making a reservation.

[00:22:30] Yeah.

[00:22:30] I think when I climbed it, it was in, I want to say it was in late May.

[00:22:35] And the whole road to the trailhead was blocked off.

[00:22:37] So, it ended up being like 14, 15 miles of hiking.

[00:22:40] Yeah.

[00:22:41] All on snow pretty much.

[00:22:42] And I was dumb.

[00:22:44] I didn't have snowshoes.

[00:22:45] Well, I didn't have skis here.

[00:22:47] So, I was just post-holing.

[00:22:49] By the time I've come down the mountain, it was like miles of like post-holing up to my thigh.

[00:22:53] So, yeah.

[00:22:54] We're talking about it.

[00:22:55] Oh, it was that real.

[00:22:55] So, yeah.

[00:22:56] It was slow.

[00:22:57] Everything was going well until that last like three miles of road.

[00:23:00] I guess it was just absolutely brutal.

[00:23:03] Probably the worst post-holing I ever had.

[00:23:04] How many people were there when you were there?

[00:23:06] Like, I want to say like five years.

[00:23:09] Public.

[00:23:10] Two people didn't go up the mountain the whole way.

[00:23:13] They just kind of hung out.

[00:23:15] Checked out.

[00:23:15] Yeah.

[00:23:15] I checked it out.

[00:23:17] I think two people were skiing.

[00:23:19] And then I just mined up to Collabria and back down.

[00:23:22] Was the route fairly straightforward?

[00:23:24] Did you have any doubts?

[00:23:26] I mean, you essentially get in a valley and you can see the peak up there.

[00:23:29] So, it's like you kind of know where you're headed.

[00:23:32] Go, sure.

[00:23:32] Yeah.

[00:23:32] And when I was, when I did it, right, there was deep snow.

[00:23:35] So, like I couldn't even see the ground, right?

[00:23:38] There was no grass.

[00:23:39] Yes.

[00:23:40] But apparently once the snow's gone, like if you do get it in July and if you're lucky,

[00:23:44] because all these spots like sell out real quick.

[00:23:46] But if you do get it in July, it's supposed to be just like absolutely pristine, just like

[00:23:51] beautiful, beautiful terrain.

[00:23:53] Because no one's on it.

[00:23:54] Like, yeah.

[00:23:55] It's one of those things where it's kind of remote in itself.

[00:23:57] It has a $150 access fee.

[00:24:00] And then on top of that, yeah, it's just, there's just not many people.

[00:24:04] They limit the reservation count.

[00:24:06] So, you're going to be on the mountain with a few other people that day.

[00:24:09] So much so that they say you're not allowed to crime solo.

[00:24:12] But what they mean by that is if you're the only person that signs up that day, they have

[00:24:15] to reschedule you.

[00:24:16] So, you're not the only person on the mountain that day.

[00:24:18] Okay.

[00:24:19] Just from a safety standpoint.

[00:24:20] So, they do want more eyes up there.

[00:24:22] Yeah.

[00:24:22] But apparently, that's a thing where it might be a sign of no one else is there.

[00:24:26] So, I mean, you know, in this.

[00:24:28] And yeah, same thing as weather.

[00:24:30] If there's weather concerns or something, they'll even schedule.

[00:24:32] But yeah.

[00:24:34] There's an interesting, there's like an interesting guy I've heard kind of here and

[00:24:37] there, like an interesting dialogue along the lines of like, like no mountains should

[00:24:43] be private.

[00:24:43] And then the other side of it, like, no, this arrangement, like, keeps this 14er.

[00:24:50] From a lot of the threats that others face because of how open and accessible and attractive

[00:24:57] they are to the masses.

[00:24:59] Right?

[00:24:59] Yeah.

[00:24:59] Well, and it's kind of one of those things, I think, where you see different, like, what

[00:25:03] is it?

[00:25:03] The Blue Lakes Basin, right?

[00:25:05] It's like in the very limited access thing.

[00:25:08] I was writing last week about Black Kingdom Gunnison routes and some of the routes that go

[00:25:12] out there.

[00:25:12] They heavily restrict how many people can go to all those a day.

[00:25:16] I think most of those routes have been more than 10 people that can hike down into this

[00:25:21] wilderness area.

[00:25:22] It's kind of one of those things where it's almost like this private, I mean, it's privately

[00:25:25] owned, right?

[00:25:26] So this dude owns, or this ranch owns this entire mountain for the most part, especially like

[00:25:31] that whole summit area.

[00:25:32] Yep.

[00:25:32] So, and yeah, it's one of those things where I think this is just their, kind of their solution

[00:25:39] as a private entity that's trying to preserve this space because they also sell, it's a big

[00:25:45] hunting area outside with a shrugging season.

[00:25:47] So they try to keep it as pristine with as much wildlife as possible.

[00:25:52] So, yeah, I mean, it's kind of their answer to do it.

[00:25:54] It's as similar as some of the solutions you see elsewhere in the state where it's, yeah,

[00:25:59] limiting the number of people and their way of doing this is by just having these reservations.

[00:26:05] I mean, honestly, it's like 150 bucks.

[00:26:07] It is expensive, right?

[00:26:09] That's out of the price range for a lot of people, or at least when there's so much other

[00:26:14] stuff you can do for free.

[00:26:15] But I would imagine it probably does, like there isn't a cost associated with trying

[00:26:20] to date this site even possible at all.

[00:26:23] So, I mean, he's not surprised to have a fee there.

[00:26:25] But probably got some insurance policy that you gotta, yeah, right, keep access, allow

[00:26:31] access to any bigger stuff.

[00:26:33] And maintain the road and just, yep.

[00:26:37] Even if you're looking at 10 people a day for however many weekends that is, you know,

[00:26:42] 25 or whatever, that's probably not.

[00:26:47] Let's see.

[00:26:48] So, that's, they're making 37K a year.

[00:26:51] If it's the quick napkin math, $150, that means 10 people a day, it jumps 25 weekends,

[00:26:57] I guess, times three.

[00:26:58] So, either way, it'd be, either way, $100,000 or around $100,000.

[00:27:02] Probably cost that much between insurance and just maintain everything.

[00:27:09] Are there other, I'm trying to think if there's other private, I mean, that's kind of an issue

[00:27:14] that's come up lately, like mining claims across the mountains, right?

[00:27:19] Democrat.

[00:27:19] Yeah, Democrat under that.

[00:27:21] They open that up.

[00:27:23] Oh, and real quick, too, if you are interested in doing the Calibra Peak climb, you can go

[00:27:27] to the Cilio Vista website.

[00:27:30] It's pretty easy to find that there's a waiver you sign and then, yeah, we can do that.

[00:27:33] But, yeah, as far as the access to some other peaks, I think they opened up a lot of the

[00:27:40] back to Calibra on loop.

[00:27:42] Yeah.

[00:27:42] Minus brass still.

[00:27:43] But now you can do that if you, like, fill out a waiver online, I think.

[00:27:47] There's a sign posted or something like that.

[00:27:49] I didn't mind.

[00:27:50] We filled it out before.

[00:27:51] Lindsey, though, is also still cool.

[00:27:52] That's right.

[00:27:53] Yeah, Lindsey's the one that marked off limits there.

[00:27:56] Yeah.

[00:27:56] Yeah, and both of those, I mean, their concerns with those peaks and that access has been just

[00:28:02] that liability for the landowner.

[00:28:05] Because, yeah, a lot of people, a lot of mining claims are on these mountains and there's

[00:28:09] a reason the routes are in a very specific way or built in a specific way where they avoid

[00:28:14] some of these areas and reduce that liability.

[00:28:17] But either way, then that's an ongoing debate.

[00:28:20] Yeah, for sure.

[00:28:21] Because what is it?

[00:28:22] The crews, right?

[00:28:24] Crews.

[00:28:25] Oh, the legislative.

[00:28:27] Yeah.

[00:28:28] Like, it's a pretty hot topic and it's been.

[00:28:30] Yeah.

[00:28:31] And it was the decalibron that kind of underscored issues with it, right?

[00:28:35] With the state language on protection of private landowners or lack thereof, right?

[00:28:40] Like, yeah.

[00:28:41] There is a big effort that coalesced around that and tried to rework that language so that

[00:28:46] private landowners could feel more protected from a liability standpoint to allow some level

[00:28:54] of access.

[00:28:54] Yeah, and I think, if I remember correctly, I think it all stems from a case out of Colorado

[00:28:59] Springs of the Air Force.

[00:29:00] Right.

[00:29:01] Yeah.

[00:29:01] A mountain biker.

[00:29:02] Yeah.

[00:29:02] It was on a trail that, I mean, I think, I'm going off memory here, but I think the

[00:29:08] trail could have been maintained a little better was his, essentially his argument because

[00:29:12] he had this crash and had brain damage.

[00:29:14] I'm pretty sure he ended up winning a pretty big case, which he kind of put that liability

[00:29:19] in the forefront.

[00:29:20] And that case went on for a long time, but to the tune of millions.

[00:29:23] Yeah, I think it was millions.

[00:29:28] But, yeah.

[00:29:29] So, that's kind of how it starts up, right?

[00:29:31] But, yeah.

[00:29:32] I think, I think it is.

[00:29:33] I'll try to find it here.

[00:29:34] But, yeah.

[00:29:35] So, that's kind of what it stems from, though, is just because they invite public onto the

[00:29:39] Air Force Academy to some great trails there.

[00:29:41] You know, Falcon Trail is one of the popular ones.

[00:29:44] They're hiking up to the top of Falcon Peak, I believe it's called.

[00:29:48] But, either way, they were saying that these trails weren't maintained.

[00:29:52] I don't know.

[00:29:53] I mean, that's one of those things where it's like, that's a lot to ask somebody if they're

[00:29:57] going to allow the public to enter their space to make sure every trail is maintained to

[00:30:03] the point where if you trip on a rock or something.

[00:30:05] A rock falls.

[00:30:06] Lightning strikes.

[00:30:07] You know, there was all those conversations of like, what's reasonable here?

[00:30:12] What's realistic?

[00:30:12] Like, 7.3 million.

[00:30:15] Da.

[00:30:15] In 2019, the federal court.

[00:30:17] So, there you go.

[00:30:18] That's why all these landowners were kind of tightening their idea.

[00:30:22] I'll start right back.

[00:30:23] It was 2019, I think it was.

[00:30:25] Yeah.

[00:30:25] Or that decision came through.

[00:30:27] But, anyway.

[00:30:27] Yeah.

[00:30:28] Anyway.

[00:30:28] It's an ongoing debate of how to properly manage access to nature.

[00:30:34] I mean, obviously, it's a drag paying to climb a mountain.

[00:30:37] But, in some cases, I guess it is the way it is.

[00:30:42] And there's not much we could do about it.

[00:30:45] What else have you been up to?

[00:30:47] Well, one story that caught my eye last week that we were covering was a coyote attack in

[00:30:54] Colorado.

[00:30:55] Sorry.

[00:30:55] It's in a neighborhood.

[00:30:56] A Colorado Springs.

[00:30:57] A four-year-old girl.

[00:31:00] I think she was with another little kid.

[00:31:02] And, essentially, and they were not far from the Interforce Academy, too.

[00:31:06] There we go.

[00:31:06] All these issues have a little connection there to the last story.

[00:31:11] But, not far from the Interforce Academy, but east of I-25.

[00:31:14] So, those unfamiliar with Colorado Springs.

[00:31:17] East of I-25 is away from the mountains, right?

[00:31:21] So, west of I-25s.

[00:31:23] Generally viewed as more rubbed or more mountainous, so to speak.

[00:31:26] But, anyway.

[00:31:28] This girl and another child approach a coyote, thinking it's a dog.

[00:31:33] Apparently, it was coyotes behind a tree.

[00:31:35] The two get close.

[00:31:36] The coyote lunges at the girl and grabs the back of her head, resulting in some pretty

[00:31:40] severe injuries to the extent that she had to stay overnight at a hospital, if her fear.

[00:31:45] And, the response that Colorado Parks and Wildlife has had to this incident is that they're essentially going to be lethally removing any coyote that's found.

[00:31:56] And, say, oh yeah, because they can't identify which coyote it was.

[00:31:59] They're like, this is a risk.

[00:32:01] I don't know how extensive that is.

[00:32:03] I don't know how they have, like, you know, rangers out there with guns just shooting a bunch of coyotes.

[00:32:09] But, they had to ask people in that area to report any coyote that they spot, just so they can get on this situation.

[00:32:17] Also said that if people encounter a coyote that seems aggressive to throw rocks at them or throw things in their direction, coyote attacks on adult humans are extremely, extremely rare.

[00:32:30] Children and pets especially, many a bit more at risk.

[00:32:34] But, yeah, I saw this story and it's kind of caught me off guard because you don't, coyotes are one of those animals that you don't really see very much, especially in urbanized areas.

[00:32:46] But, yeah, I mean, and literally the day after I wrote this story, all of a sudden to start hearing coyote howls from my neighborhood in Colorado Springs.

[00:32:54] I think so was a piece.

[00:32:55] Yeah, I came looking for you.

[00:32:56] And it was loud, like, to the point where I was watching that TV show and had to turn it off.

[00:33:03] I don't know if that's what I'm hearing.

[00:33:04] It sounds like some screaming bloody murder on us.

[00:33:06] But, yeah, so pretty interesting stuff.

[00:33:10] So, if you see coyotes in Colorado Springs, apparently.

[00:33:13] Well, those are sort of wildlife as wild reminders, you know.

[00:33:16] Yeah, right.

[00:33:17] Tell your kids even.

[00:33:18] Yeah, it is.

[00:33:20] I mean, I had a friend at a neighborhood park, Palmer Park, right?