A few top campgrounds; Must-try donuts; New vehicle style now street legal; Skier numbers from last season; & More

[00:00:01] Colorado Podcast. Once again, it is Spencer McKee and Seth Boster here to bring you some Colorado news. Hello, hello, hello. And once again, we've got a lot of interesting things to talk about. Hard-hitting things like Dad's Donuts. Yeah, Dad's Donuts. We've got some skier numbers. Got a new type of vehicle in Colorado that you'll start seeing on roads that is sure to turn some heads. Campground favorites, maybe get into long-term plans for one of Colorado's

[00:00:31] most iconic outdoor recreation destinations. But first, Seth, how was your weekend? Well, like I said, I mean, it was highlighted by Dad's Donuts. By Dad's Donuts. Downtown Colorado Springs. Yeah, let's chat donuts here while we're talking weekends. So yeah, tell us about Dad's Donuts. Dad's Donuts. That's gotta be some of the better donuts I've had, man. What, so they opened last year, last summer, and I stopped and my wife and I grabbed some before attempting to hike it all off afterwards.

[00:01:01] Which didn't really work. But yeah, because these things are super decadent, man. So they're cronuts. The cronut craze has come to downtown Colorado Springs for sure. This place is over by Denver Biscuit Company slash Atomic Cowboy. Pick your poison between the biscuit sandwiches or the donut across the street. Sounds like a heart attack.

[00:01:25] But yeah, so they're cronuts. Cronuts. Yeah. So 100, on the website, they say 109 layers to find these cronuts, man. Whoa. And each are crafted apparently over four days. Huh. Proudly no artificial additives in them. Gotta pay for it. It's like five bucks for a donut. But you won't need another one. I mean, each of them are huge. And if you break it down by layer, I mean, that's a pretty good deal. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Yeah.

[00:01:55] I got like, let's see. I said all you need is one, but of course I'm going to tell you about what I have, two or three of them. We shared. We shared. And then we had some later. 2,500 calories of donuts. Yeah. To get out on that hike. And there's like, a lot of them have like cream, like kind of between the layers. Like it's hard to call them like stuffed, you know, but you just little, little subtle bits of cream between there. I'm looking at the photos on the website. These look awesome. They're wacky. Yeah.

[00:02:22] The caramel cloud is the go-to. I've been there twice now and that's my favorite. It says on the website, caramel mousse topped with salted caramel and white chocolate pearls. That's it. Yeah, that's it. That looks incredible. And it like melts in your mouth, like a cloud, caramel cloud for sure. And then there's an almond one. Are you seeing something, an almond one? Almond crunch. That sounds it. Yep. Pastry cream filling, almond icing, and topped with almond cookie crumble. Ooh. That also sounds good. Man, this s'mores one looks good too. Yeah, I've yet to get this one.

[00:02:58] Welcome to the Out There Calls. S'mores one. Marshmallow cream with chocolate ganache, toasted marshmallows, and graham sugar bottom. Dang. On your cheat day. I want some donuts, man. It's a great cheat day. And then we did a blueberry one. Ooh. Yeah. So that was awesome. That would also be right up my alley too. You're a donut mill guy, right? I love donuts in general. Donut mill, man. I know. Up in Woodland Park. It's marked by the little windmill thing on the side of the road. If you're headed west, right?

[00:03:28] It's on that right side of the road. Yep. But yeah, man, back in the day when I was going up and just skiing on a regular basis, like a few times a week or whatever, we would almost always stop at donut mill and get a couple donuts, but always, most importantly, get the donut holes so that we could carry a bag of donut holes in our ski pants. Yeah. Yeah. And eat them on the lifts. Mid-run, or like between ruds. One thing you most definitely cannot bring on the lift is those cinnamon rolls, man. And they are bigger.

[00:03:58] I was there- At donut mill. I was there a few weeks ago. When were they? On our way to Buena Vista. See, that's when I'm always stopping too. Yeah, going to the mountains. I mean, you gotta have it, right? Oh, it's perfect. And dude, that cinnamon roll is, I mean, it was always bigger than my head, but now it's way bigger than my head. Yeah, you have to slice it like a cake or a pie almost. Have you had it? I've never actually gotten it. Someone had it, we were at the beach in A-Basin one time and someone brought one up. Makes sense. Yeah. And that's like a good thing. Like if you're meeting your friends or whatever, you know, doing a little tailgating while you're skiing. That's ideal.

[00:04:27] Bring one of those massive cinnamon rolls. Also, biscuits and gravy. They do have biscuits and gravy too. Not to miss the biscuits and gravy there. Yeah, I like the tiger tails or whatever you want to call them, but the twisted one, you know, yeah, with a little bit of the cinnamon. Big fan of the bear claw. Yeah, bear claws, always good. And the third shout out, Sweet Colorado. So in Dough, D-O-U-G-H. Yeah, that's in Glenwood. Glenwood Springs, yeah. I've heard that one's good too. I have not been there.

[00:04:54] I think, I mean, really, maybe Donut Mill might be the only donut shop that comes to mind when I'm thinking about places I've gone. But there's another good one down here in the Springs, right? I always forget about that one. I like horseshoe donuts. Amy's donuts. Amy's donuts. Yeah, I haven't had that in a while. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that sounds like a great way to kind of get your weekend rolling. And then you went hiking. Where did you go hiking at? Cheyenne Mountain State Park. Yeah. What do you think?

[00:05:24] I loved it there, man. I hadn't been there in a while. And I felt, you know, it was always the case like the parking lot there. I'd count like maybe a few cars. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And there was definitely more cars. Nice. The most cars I'd ever seen there. Nice. And, you know, I'd always thought it was obvious. I mean, you had to pay. You got to pay to go to the state park. And there's just so many great free hikes, trails around the Springs.

[00:05:49] But I can't help but wonder if that Keep Colorado Wild Pass is getting people over to the state parks more. Yeah, the one that comes kind of automatically unless you opt out with your license registration. What is it like? Is it $20 or $30? I think it's $29, I want to say. Right around there, yeah. Yeah. So I opted in for this year and I just got up Sunday and thought, let's go use this. Get over to Cheyenne Mountain State Park. That is one spot where I'm like happy to hear that there's more cars. Yeah. That's there in a way. Spread things out.

[00:06:19] Spread things out. Yeah, spread things out. Give people more options. And you're right. Like the few times I've been over there, you know, unless there's like a special event going on. Yeah. Very uncrowded. Like to the point where there'd be a couple cars. Yeah, yeah. Literally. Good trails, like especially if you're looking to like just do some trail running. Yeah. Great for trail running. Great beginner mountain biking. Yeah. Great beginner mountain biking. A little bit flatter there unless you're talking about the trails that really go up in those mountains. The Dixon going up there. Yeah.

[00:06:48] Dixon Trail, which is a long trail. It's like it. I think it's like 18, 20 miles. Yeah. And I was in like peak physical shape when I did that trail and it left me like beaten down and exhausted. It'll pummel you more than a 14er. A lot of 14ers. Yeah. It was lengthy. And you're in the sun a lot too. Yeah. That's right. So bring your water. But yeah, no, the trails there. I mean, for trail running, I like it because in Colorado Springs specifically, a lot of the

[00:07:15] trails are like, you know, you go way up and then way down, way up and way down. You can get a little bit more of that, like just kind of rolling nature on some of those trails. A little more subtle and good loop options and you can stack loops back in there. Yeah. And I mean, it's like, you know, back to how few people there. I mean, granted the pass to get in, of course, right? That's obvious. But it's, you know, Cheyenne Mountain. Yeah.

[00:07:40] It's the region's, arguably the region's second most iconic mountain after Pike's Peak, you know? And it's like, it's just, it's just that big craggy Goliath is just right there wherever you hike in that park. I mean, it's the views of it are just phenomenal. Yeah. And for those who might not be so familiar with the Colorado Springs mountainscape, so to speak, it's the one with all the antennas on it. Yeah. On top. Also home to, or formerly home to NORAD. Now there's something else in there. Cheyenne Mountain Space Force Station, is that what they call it?

[00:08:10] Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. There's a whole military base inside of this mountain, which is pretty wild to think about. Yeah. I always think I'm being watched when I'm there, but then I remember, why would they be watching me? You know? The world is watching you, Seth. Yeah. It's always funny. It's good to do. Like paranoid people. And I guess I'm one of them who doesn't have an Alexa in their house or whatever. You know? And people are like, who's listening to me? And it's like, why would they need to listen to you? You're not that important. You know? Oh, I've got some Alexas, and it is a little bit jarring when you're just like in the

[00:08:40] middle of talking, and then it'll be like, just say something random. Yeah. And like talking with someone else. You know? Not talking to Alexa. Yeah. And then, yeah, it'll be, it's always a little bit like, eh. Yeah. I don't know if I like this. A little freaky. Yeah. I'm good with it. It does let me turn on and off the lights without flipping a switch. So, if privacy is the consolation that I have to pay for that, it may be worth it. I keep the robots to a minimum in my house.

[00:09:08] You know, my wife is still trying to convince me on the robot vacuum. Yeah. Probably not a bad idea. Probably not a bad idea. Yeah, I know. But. I gotta get over myself. Yeah, so highlight of your weekend was donuts and a wonderful hike. Yeah, I think so. Would have been, would have been the Nuggets. Yeah. They fell short. That's a good series. Yeah, it has been a good series. Yeah, I think it could go game seven. I was happy to see the Nuggets putting up a fight. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:36] Against what I think is probably a more talented Thunder team. Yeah, they were a top-ranked seed, right? Yeah. But they're young. And the Nuggets, I mean, maybe the experience is showing on the Nuggets side. Yeah. If there's anyone who can pull them through, it's Joker. For sure. Right. The joke. The joke. But, yeah. Yeah, my weekend was relatively chill. I spent most of the day Saturday trying to get rid of this, not even a big stump in my yard, but a stump in my yard swinging this axe at it.

[00:10:04] Apparently, the former owners decided the move was to, or one of the former owners or someone in the past at the place where I live. I'm not pointing any fingers. Yeah. But at some point, fencing got wrapped around the tree, presumably to try to kill the tree. When it was like weak, and apparently that's like a thing people used to do. But either way, can't use a chainsaw to get this stump out because of all this metal in the tree stump. Oh, my gosh. So I have to use this giant axe.

[00:10:34] And I've been feeling it. The root force of will. My hands are all ripped up. Yeah. It was like literally like a man versus nature scenario where I'm just out there like- I can imagine. Yeah. Like, yeah. It was a day. That is for sure. And then, yeah. Sunday went and gave in again. So, yeah. Pretty standard weekend. Had a nice little weekend. The weather was beautiful. I think it's going to stay beautiful for a while. I did go up and go bowling for some Mother's Day celebrations. Nice. And that main event. Oh, yeah.

[00:11:04] Up in Northern Colorado Springs. Nice little bowling alley up there. There's a lot going on in there. Yeah. We've talked about that at part of the springs before. But a little bit of a like entertainment mecca, so to speak. For sure. I finally got up to the new goat patch. Oh, yeah. How was that? Cool spot. Yeah. Nice. I've never been to the new one. I go to the other one quite a bit. I definitely want to go back and try the pizza. Oh, they serve pizza? They got pizza. Like in-house pizza? It's not nice. Yeah. There's a kitchen. Nice. There's a food menu. And where's that at? Is that a- Oh, is it off Voyager?

[00:11:34] Off Voyager? Yeah. Yeah. All right. I got to get up there then. Yeah. Sounds good. Yeah. You could hit goat patch and then hit shields for all your needs. There you go. You know, it's like for all your outdoor needs. No, just all your needs. All your needs. You can ride the Ferris wheel. Ride the Ferris wheel at shields. Your needs and wants. Yeah. I always do find it a little bit funny when I see like one lone person on the Ferris wheel at shields. You know? I'm like, just having a good day.

[00:12:04] Having a good time. Maybe they're very bored of waiting on someone to shop or maybe that's, maybe they saw the season pass and you can just go up and hit that Ferris wheel. On a rainy day, it's perfect. Especially if you got kids, you know. Oh yeah, for sure. Just kill the rainy day. Yeah. I like it. I like it. So yeah. Here, let's get into some of these topics. Yeah. So we already talked about donuts. Yeah. Most important. And now I want a donut and let's maybe chat about some ski numbers that were recently released. Yep.

[00:12:34] Yeah. Yeah. So this will be a quick and dirty one, my friend. So every year, yeah. National Ski Areas Association, based out of Lakewood, I do believe, kind of puts out their preliminary data on the national industry, right? Kind of breaking it down by region, what ski visitation look like. So to be clear, we're not talking specifically at all about Colorado. In the context of Colorado, it's Rocky Mountain region, which I think comprises Utah, Wyoming, others, I'm presuming.

[00:13:03] But predominantly, surely predominantly Colorado. Here, I got a map here. Idaho, Montana. Montana. Yeah. Wyoming, Utah, Colorado. Yeah. And Colorado, I'm sure is probably the biggest. Oh, and New Mexico. Yeah. Of course. New Mexico. There you go. So yeah, they are reporting nationally. It's the second best on record as far as visitation goes. So across the US, a total of 61.5 million skier visits. Wow.

[00:13:33] I'm calling that a 1.7% increase over the previous season. Trailing only, yeah, under 6% from 2022 to 2023. Right. Right. So a lot more coming in. And I'm really thinking, when I see this trend, I can't help but think about the season pass. I mean, just the proliferation of the season pass.

[00:13:56] Really, going back to when Vail Resorts, remember that massive price cut back in, was that 2020, 2021? Yeah, I think. Like 20%. Yeah. I think they've made a lot of pass holders out of that. You know, in the broader industries, push to get away from the ticket, the window ticket, and really push people into the season pass. Yeah. And I mean, say what you will about a season pass, too. Like, people often are like, it's why it's so crowded now at resorts. Yeah.

[00:14:26] And et cetera. I don't know if that's a factor or not. It might be. It might just be more people kind of turning to outdoor recreation since the pandemic as well. But, I mean, the pass does make it, it does make sense. If you're going, you know, a dozen times in your season, like live in Colorado. Yeah. It's the only way. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

[00:14:47] And, you know, as you and I talk about, for people outside of the industry, you know, especially outside of the media world like you and me, maybe people know or don't know, but the industry is pretty tightly secretive with these numbers. I mean, we can only talk in very general terms about ski visitation. You won't see a ski area by ski area breakdown ever, you know. Yeah.

[00:15:12] And thus, when associations like these put out numbers, like Colorado Ski Areas Association, which represents the bulk of ski areas in Colorado, not named Vail Resorts, you'll see very broad general numbers from that too. Yeah. So, you and me can only speculate. Yeah. What's behind these numbers? Everyone can only speculate. That's literally, yeah. Fairly private information. You can, what's the number that the lift or skier capacity number? Right. You can kind of guesstimate. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:40] Every now and then, ski areas put out their master plans. It seems like it's every like five or ten years. Yeah. And usually those do come with what they call like their, is it like their carrying capacity? Yeah, carrying capacity. Isn't that like a daily figure? Yeah, I think it is. Something like that, like what they can handle on the most day. And it'll be like 15,000 to 20,000 in a lot of these. Oh, yeah, big numbers. Yeah. What, so with the Rocky Mountain region specifically, how many skier visits were there?

[00:16:07] I'm seeing they accounted for 42.9% of all national visits. Okay. So there you go. Talk about general, general, right? Yeah. I'm trying to find millions if they are putting that number out in just this first press release. So that's 26 million based on my quick calculator. I'm glad one of us can do some math. Googling calculations here.

[00:16:32] They called it a strong, strong showing for the Rocky Mountain region, despite snowfall, right? Yeah. Hovering below. Pretty bad year for snowfall still. Snow was below the 10-year. There again, talk about very general. 10-year is what they're going to call it, right? All right. Well, we got the full number there. Colorado snowpack is currently at 49% of the long-term median dated going back to 1987, which puts it in the eighth percentile.

[00:17:01] So very, I think people see the 49% and they're like, yeah, that's bad. But the eighth percentile is bad. Like that's like 92% of other seasons have had more snow at this point in the year. That puts it in perspective. Sure. So it is interesting. I mean, and you know, I don't think any industry person would tell you that snowfall is directly correlated with visitation, but it's pretty closely related. I was about to mention that. I wonder how correlated it is. I know.

[00:17:29] Because it's like, you know, once the season gets underway, sure, it's great to have a powder day, but the runs are open at a resort and you're going to get a similar experience for the most part once, you know, January, February hits. Yep. Regardless of the snowpack, you know? Mm-hmm. And I would also venture to say that people that are buying passes, you know, they're buying them before they know what the snow's going to be like. Exactly. Yeah. If they're committed to going. And at that point, they're going to feel like they're going to take advantage.

[00:17:59] Yeah, yeah. Exactly. The industry likes to kind of point to capital investments as being correlated, right? I mean, and there has been big money put into ski resorts here in Colorado and all around. I guess pointing to that as a factor does make it a little bit easier to campaign for more capital investments down the road. For sure. Yeah. But, I mean, but just, you know, I mean, we're talking about lift upgrades. We're talking about more lifts. Mm-hmm.

[00:18:28] We're talking at the end of the day about people not complaining about being stuck in lift lines. You know, that very much matters, I would think, for visitation. I mean, people who have a good experience are going to come back. Mm-hmm. And I think, I mean, what? So the industry is saying 624 million got pumped into the industry during just this season. Dang. Across the nation. But, I mean, we can, I mean, gosh, Vail Resorts has a massive number for what kind of upgrades are going into their resorts in recent years.

[00:18:58] And, again, this summer, you know? Mm-hmm. So I think that matters a lot. But, yeah, I don't know about you, but my mind definitely goes toward the season pass push and the rise of Icon. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[00:19:39] I get it there. Yep. For sure. And, I mean, I think, I mean, yeah, during the pandemic, a lot of people turned out to a recreation. Yep. Probably saw a little bit of that dip just if you look like two seasons, what do you say, two seasons ago? Or it was a, that was like when that spike was. Yeah. 2022, 2023, they called their highest. Yeah. And then a little bit of dip off that. So, yeah, I mean, it's interesting. Season pass does make it more affordable if you're planning on going a lot. Yep. For sure. Yeah. No doubt about that.

[00:20:08] And I'm trying to remember, I mean, going back to that huge pass slash that Vail Resorts did. Mm-hmm. I think we were calling some reporting I did there that just was trying to get into just people converting over to season passes at that time. Yeah. Or people over time picking sides between Epic and Icon. And, yeah. So. And, I mean, even now they do the Epic Day Pass at Vail. Big time. Yeah. Big time. This is not an advertisement for Vail, but. That's a great point, though.

[00:20:37] But, yeah, it cuts that pass down if you purchase it ahead of time and you can move it, you know, move it around whenever you want. Yep. It's not a specific date. Yep. And then you can get a pass to most Vail Resorts for, like, $100. Yeah. Whereas, like, a lift ticket window pass is going to cost you $250. Yeah. Or, yeah. Like, it's. It was another great marketing move. Yeah. And that's, like, if you're going less than seven days in a season, I think it makes sense. Yep. Which that probably does appeal to a lot of people. And then you're already committed to going, so you kind of have to go.

[00:21:13] People go up just because they won't have to deal with the weather on I-70. Yeah. It's, like, there have been days where I've wanted to go ski, and then it's, like, you're, like, okay, they're getting a foot of snow. The drive up and back is going to take twice as long. Mm-hmm. Maybe we'll plan for a different time. That's a good point. Yeah. I'll be curious. I mean, yeah, lots of factors at play, obviously. We can sit here and speculate all day. Yeah. Pacific Northwest did really good. I think the national industry is saying that region recorded its best season on record. Four point. Yeah.

[00:21:43] I think that season also had a really good, or that area also had a really good snow year, too, I want to say. Let's see. But, yeah, I think you're right. Snow was, no? No? Yeah, no. Pacific Northwest was below. Was below. According to National Ski Airs Association. Fair enough. Below the 10-year average. Fair enough. I thought it was better. I thought it was better than Colorado. I think it is. I think that's safe to say. Well, that date is somewhere, but. So, yeah, I'm always a little more interested.

[00:22:12] I'm always interested when the Colorado Ski Areas Association puts out numbers. A little more Colorado-centric. Yeah. Yeah, I'll be curious, too. We'll talk about it. That comes out a little later. Yeah. So, one topic that you threw out to chat about today that I was very curious about, just because it does have a big local impact. The Pikes Peak 30-year vision. We've kind of chatted about this a little bit, just in terms of, like, who's managing the land and what that looks like for the future.

[00:22:40] But I think you had some recent reporting on that, or at least have been done into it. Yeah. Have there been any developments on what Pikes Peak? And that's the peak right outside of Colorado Springs. People listening might not be familiar with the state, but it is a huge, huge tourist attraction of the local area. It's got the road to the top. It's got two trails that go all the way to the top. You can take a train to the top. So, it's a major tourist attraction of Colorado. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:23:07] So, we've kind of talked along these lines on this show in the recent past. But a local group here, Pikes Peak Outdoor Recreation Alliance, for the past, like, three years has been convening land managers, industry people,

[00:23:25] just everyday enthusiasts, advocates, concerned people across El Paso, Teller, and Fremont counties to kind of nail down what are the problems in our outdoor recreation and conservation landscape? What are the opportunities? What do we want to see done? What can be done? And it's all culminated three years later in what they're calling this vision plan, right?

[00:23:47] So, it's a massive, massive document with broad, sweeping points, very much returning to this point locally about management and collaboration. When we're talking about this patchwork of a landscape between city and county, Colorado Springs Utilities, other private interests, but very predominantly the Forest Service,

[00:24:13] which there's been long concern, you know, is this agency up against a major and growing population and major tourist destination really in a position to handle something like that? You know, is there some scenario of, as it's been tossed around here and supported by the governor, Colorado Parks and Wildlife coming in and playing a larger recreation management role,

[00:24:37] kind of similar to the Arkansas Headwaters Recreation Area, where you see CPW managing camping and trails and fishing along this huge stretch that's owned by the Bureau of Land Management, right? So, something like that. And that's certainly kind of a reoccurring theme in the document. But probably what most people would turn their eyes to is this list of 30 recommended projects, 30 big ideas, right?

[00:25:06] And some of them have been in the works for a while. If people have been plugged in in the area, some things will sound familiar, such as a return to access in Waldo Canyon, right? That would be awesome. Which has been in the works for a while, such as the Ring the Peak Trail, right? This big trail circumnavigating 63 miles around the mountain. That could be like a world-class trail in that sense. And that's where those big ideas with CPW have come in.

[00:25:33] Like, could CPW come and help fill that gap? And it's a very conceptual idea. And a lot of this is all very conceptual. But there's other things like a downhill mountain bike course, which has been envisioned for the Pike View Quarry on the north side of town that people see every day from I-25. That's something that's been in the works and could be in the works.

[00:25:59] Also, among these 30 listed is this COS Creek Plan, which there's been some efforts around there to reimagine monument and fountain creeks. Like, could downtown-ish Colorado Springs look a little more like golden with the creek running through? I would love that. That'd be quite an amazing thing. Also in here is like an OHV facility, like an OHV hub, more or less. Oh, that'd be cool, too.

[00:26:27] Also in here is this call for a camping plan to really designate and wrap our arms around getting more camping, more designated camping, more sustainable camping in the Pikes Peak region. That'd be nice. There's not? It's kind of just a hodgepodge. Yeah. It can be hard to find some campsites locally that are... They get so full and busy, too. Yeah. Yep. So I thought that was kind of interesting.

[00:26:54] You know, there's a lot of thinking about the Pikes Peak Highway and what more could be along the Pikes Peak Highway. And that's the road that travels to the summit of the peak. Right. And it's like, I don't know, like interestingly, like, you know, as kind of the person who oversaw this told me, like, there's no camping along there. Yeah. Could there be camping somewhere along the highway? Could there be more trail connections up around there? Could there be a McDonald's or a subway? They're Chick-fil-A, right?

[00:27:24] Yeah. Chick-fil-A with a view. Yeah. So, yeah. That's kind of some of the stuff that's covered in this. And obviously, the big question is funding, you know. Where is the money going to come from to get some of this stuff done? And Polis was here. Governor Polis was here in town last month, as you might remember, alongside Great Outdoors Colorado, that lottery funded agency that has pledged like $50 million to statewide priorities of like this.

[00:28:21] Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, we're talking America's Mountain, you know. Yeah, I'd love to see it. There's no place. You know, it's like, I'd be hard-pressed to find a place where there's a city of, you know, 500,000 people, greater than 700,000 people or so, you know, with so much access to outdoor recreation. Exactly. And like, if outdoor recreation's your thing, Colorado Springs is the place to be. Yeah.

[00:28:46] And it's like, yeah, I think like there's a lot of people who would say like that unique, that uniqueness is what makes it difficult in terms of management, you know. Yeah. And in terms of development and, you know, where are the resources to meet that demand, big demand across a big landscape, you know. Yeah. No, that's so. Something to follow along for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting stuff. Yeah.

[00:29:11] Here, let's, here's a kind of a funny, not as outdoor recreation related topic. We're going to talk about this vehicle? We're going to talk about this vehicle. Yeah. I want to hear about this. All right. So, there's a type of vehicle that is a Japanese style of vehicle. It's called a K-vehicle. All right. It's spelled K-E-I. It's a K-vehicle. I would reckon people, like, I didn't know what you were talking about when you said it, but when I saw the picture, I was like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You, like, everyone would recognize them probably.

[00:29:40] They're these little, little tiny, often trucks. Yeah. With four wheels. Like a bed in the back. Yeah. Like, if you think, like, almost like Americans over here with our big trucks, you would almost be like, this is a humorously small truck. Yeah. For most Americans. It's like a cartoon, like a Lego truck or something. Yeah. Yeah. These things are tiny. And they probably run on, like, you know, like the equivalent of a lawnmower engine or something. Or, like, a motorcycle engine or something. But they're, like, very high utility.

[00:30:09] So, they're super popular in Japan. And they're getting, they've been getting popular in the United States, too, in recent years. I think prior to the news that I'm about to share with Colorado, 29 states had legalized them on roadways. So, Colorado became the 30th state in recent days with a bill that Polo signed into law that legalized these K vehicles as being street legal. I guess I didn't realize they were not, they were illegal. Yeah.

[00:30:38] You look at it and you're like, yeah, you know. I mean, they kind of like. Like, drive that just like any other small vehicle we see out. Yeah, like a smart car comes to mind. Like those little tiny cars. Yeah. They usually have, like, you know, the two seats and they're narrow. Like, they're, or maybe some of them only have, like, one seat. Have you seen, related, unrelated, have you seen those wacky looking postal service new vehicles? Yes, I have. I mean, I haven't seen them in person, but I've seen the. I mean, if those things can be legal. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.

[00:31:07] Like, looking at it, it's like, yeah, I mean, I guess if someone wants to take this down I-25, I don't let them. Take it up Bikes Peak Highway. Yeah, so pretty interesting stuff, though. So, most of these, or a lot of these top out around 40 miles per hour. Some can get up to, like, 80 plus. Yeah. So. That would be funny to see them. Yeah, we're looking at that. But you tend to see these vehicles, too, kind of, like, specialized a lot of the times. Yeah. Where a lot of them are just kind of set up to have a truck bed that you need to kind of, you know, Right.

[00:31:36] Moving around in a low-speed environment is something that's easy and efficient. But then you also see some with, like, cranes on them. One of the cool applications that I like is that you see some people building them out as, like, camper vans. Huh. Most of them start out stock as pretty, you know, not good for probably navigating, like, rugged terrain.

[00:32:05] But either way, I mean, it's a cheap option if you're looking for a camper van. And a lot of these trucks, so there's a big catch with these. Before I get into pricing, there's a big catch. There's an import rule. And because these weren't normally sold in the United States as new vehicles, you have to wait 25 years to be able to import them. So all these vehicles. That's a big catch. So all these vehicles are 1990s.

[00:32:33] I think there's some on there on some of the sites I was looking at, 2000. You have to wait 25 years? Yeah. It's, like, some rule related to importing vehicles that are not designed for American sales in America. So kind of a big catch there. But the price, though, is right, in my opinion, for that. But you can find some on websites here for $3,000. Huh. Which, if you're looking for, like, a cheap base. And apparently they're very reliable.

[00:33:04] And apparently they're very easy to work on. Huh. According to what the internet says. I've never worked on a K vehicle. I've never been in a K vehicle. I've seen a couple here and there. Yeah. But, yeah, they start at, like, around $3,000. You can find some nicer ones maybe for, like, $10,000. But, like, on most of these websites, you won't see anything more than $10,000. Yeah. Which, in terms of getting a street legal vehicle, like, obviously it's 25 years old.

[00:33:33] But relatively comparable, I guess. I mean, especially if you're looking at, like, the $3,000 ones. So it's like we're not really, you know, if we're ever going to see a surge of these things, we won't see a surge of these things in Colorado for another quarter life. You can buy them now. Buy them now. You just have to buy, you import them from Japan. And that's probably worked into the costs or whatever, however they do that. But you buy them, and it just has to be a 25-year-old vehicle. So you won't see a 2025 model. Okay.

[00:34:03] Unless things change until 2050. Make sure. Okay. I thought I was hearing you, dude, that you're not going to get your vehicle for another 25 years. Oh, no, no, no. The vehicle is 25 years old. The vehicle is 25 years old. It's very important. In case anyone else was. Yes. I might have confused people there. Yeah. So you have to. Okay. You can only get ones that were made in, like, I haven't seen any from the 80s. But, like, 90s and then 2000 is, like, the most recent one you can get. I'm trying to think where it, man. I haven't.

[00:34:32] Lucky for me, I haven't had to shop for a car since 2018. You're going to have to knock on me now. But what 3000 could get you these days? You know. Yeah. An old vehicle like that, probably. Yeah. Generally. And, I mean, hey, some of these little vans, they kind of have, like, that old, like, VW, like. Yeah. Bug. You know, like, the VW. Those are coming back. And, yeah, and they kind of have that style to them. So, I mean. Yeah. If you're, I mean, especially, like, if you're living in a mountain town, just kind of want something to kind of putz around town in type of thing.

[00:35:03] Yeah. I could see these, you know, finding their people in Colorado. Yeah. I mean. They're quirky. And Colorado's quirky. So it fits, doesn't it? Yeah. It is. That's funny. That's true. That is funny. It'd be way easier to kind of drive around, like, an urban area, too, just with, like, traffic and parking and stuff, just with how tiny they are. Yeah. Look up photos of these if you're listening to it. It's a... What am I thinking of? K-E-I vehicles. K-E-I. Not Kia. Pronounced K. K-A-I.

[00:35:32] What am I thinking of, like, little terrible box-looking cars, man? What? You know. I see them all over the place. I'm trying to... Well, I would say I'll Google it, but I don't even know what they Google. Terrible box-looking cars. Yeah. I mean, those are arguably weirder-looking than that truck. Eh, well. What am I thinking of? Either way. Anyway. You'll see these on the road soon, so... Brace yourself. You might see Spencer in one. You might. I'm a fan. I'm a fan. Fun.

[00:36:02] Efficient. Yeah. Useful. Head-turning. So, yeah. You'll see them on the roads at some point, thanks to Polis and Colorado becoming the 30th state to legalize these as street legal vehicles. Every kiss begins with K. Cool. So, let's get into Fisher's Canyon. Oh, yeah. You're very excited to talk about this because when we were going over our list of topics,

[00:36:30] I accidentally skipped over saying Fisher's Canyon. And Seth was like, Fisher's Canyon. Everyone's got to know about Fisher's Canyon. Everyone's got to know about Fisher's Canyon. Kind of going back to, I guess, the Pikes Peak region dreams, you know? Yeah. This one's been in the works. Let's see. Colorado Springs. The city acquired, what was it, 343 acres. Really picture just a side of Cheyenne Mountain. Essentially, like a face of Cheyenne Mountain. Taking us back to Cheyenne Mountain, too. Yeah. Going back south. Southwest side of town, 343 acres. I've toured it.

[00:37:01] Combination of meadows, forest, and then just high rock outcrops. It's going to be the highest point in the city parks system surpassing Mount Muskoka. Dang. So to put, you know, kind of the allure in perspective, you know, that's definitely how people. There's a pretty well-known climber locally named Phil Wartman. Shout out, Phil. I don't blame you if you're not listening. But he's the kind of type who could be listening. Badass climber.

[00:37:28] And, you know, as this thing was kind of in the works over the past couple years, you know, he's seen this as like maybe has the greatest, I can't remember his words, but he sees this as the potential to be like the best climbing area in Colorado Springs. Dang. Yeah. That's when slash if climbing kind of gets arranged and routes get established. For now, what's recently been approved is this master plan setting the stage for that

[00:37:55] and also a trail system going like nine to ten miles going up to those high elevations near 9,000 feet toward what's called the Legends outcrop. If it doesn't get cooler sounding than that, right? And there's kind of this big vision for those trails to tie into Cheyenne Mountain State Park. So it could just be, it really does feel like Colorado Springs next big outdoor destination, you know, when it gets fully built out.

[00:38:24] If money comes through, that could be next year. Time will tell. That's what their hope is, to have these trails open for next year. Probably going to have or will have seasonal closures for raptors on those upper trails. So won't be available year round, but other trails will, lower trails will. And it's also a key point for what's been called the Chamberlain Trail,

[00:38:49] which is this long dream trail running 26 miles through the foothills between Cheyenne Mountain and Blodgett Peak. Dang. So this would kind of be like a portal for it, really. Dang. For that long trail. So yeah. That's pretty wild. There's a lot of big potential at Fishers Canyon. Blodgett Peak, for reference, is like almost all the way up by the Air Force Academy. Yeah. Connecting south to north. That's awesome. Colorado Springs backdrop. That'd be cool. For a trail doing that. Yeah.

[00:39:18] Not related to the Chamberlain Trail that's already in North Cheyenne Canyon, or is it? It is. There are pieces of Chamberlain Trail. Okay. You've probably been on that. Yeah, yeah. You see it, I think, where else does it connect into? Definitely North Cheyenne Canyon. Yeah, because that one goes from the bottom of the canyon up to basically the Seven Bridges area. Yeah. And they are, I think this year, they're looking to, I want to say Chamberlain is part of the

[00:39:45] new trail development that's going to be coming to Blodgett this year. At least that was a plan at one point. So yeah. Anyway, that's been in the works. But yeah, Fishers Canyon, I think we'll have a lot of appeal. You know, again, just spreading people out, like we talked about with Cheyenne Mountain. You know? I love the type of trails, too, where there's different points to hop on and on. Yeah. Like, I'm a big fan of those, just because then it's like you can kind of just do your whole day and you never run out of a thing to do, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

[00:40:15] You can just kind of keep going and find your way back eventually. Yeah. It's going to be like a stacked loop trail system, so definitely we'll have that kind of opportunity to it. What would the timeline be like? Yeah. So they're hoping they can, they want to open it. They want everything to be developed as in parking lot, full trail system. They want it all at once, if possible. And they're really pushing for next year. No way. So we'll see. Damn. Money, I think they need like $4 million.

[00:40:44] And you'd be surprised or maybe you won't be surprised to know like what goes into trailhead development, parking lot, urban gutter, stormwater, all that stuff. Oh, I'm sure there's just so many little like scenarios they have to run and prepare for and tests they have to run. They feel confident they got money. If I was hearing things right, they feel confident they got money for the trail system. But yeah, when you're talking about parking lot and trailhead, that's a lot more money. But that's what they're hoping for.

[00:41:12] That's what it was told to me that they'd love to be able to get it open next year. Very cool. Man. I would be looking forward to that for sure. Yeah. What else we got on our list here? How about one of our last, maybe the last topic we talked about, unless we go off on a tangent, but this campground favorites thing that you mentioned. I just typed this up, man. Here we go. Fresh. Hot off the press. Is that the, or fresh off the press? Hot off the press. I think it is hot off the press. Hot off the press. Yeah.

[00:41:41] So people can't blame us for giving away campgrounds here. I went and asked other people to take on the blame. And I thought of authors, people who've written the best camping, best campgrounds in Colorado. Right. I felt comfortable doing this. You and me have talked about this bigger idea of... Yeah. I'm prefacing this conversation because I know there are listeners who are saying, we're going to talk about favorite, you're going to give away favorite campgrounds? Yeah.

[00:42:10] Well, and I think you've touched on it a couple times today too, talking about how it's like, there are so many campgrounds, but spreading out outdoor recreation tends to be a good solution to preventing certain spots from getting overused and more crowded. For sure. The more options people have, the more places people are picking to go. Yeah. And I'm not, and these are all places, as these authors would tell you, the people who wrote these books, these are not secret places. Right? We are in these...

[00:42:36] No one is giving away undiscovered spots here. Right? These are... I put it... I simply asked them, what are your... When I say favorite campgrounds, what comes to mind? You know? And this is kind of some stuff that they threw out there. We're talking, you know, people have written books like 100 best, 50 best, you know? Yeah. I had them narrow it down to a few, you know? Oh, that's cool. Pretty impossible question. How many authors did you connect with? Three so far. I'm talking to another fella today, later today.

[00:43:05] But yeah, there's definitely some that caught my eye and spots that I'll have to add to the list. One being Bogan Flats Campground around Redstone and Marble. And to be clear, the other, you know, the other important point of this conversation is so much of this is by reservation now. Yeah. So there's, you know, there's been this trend of new management that hopefully puts some

[00:43:35] guardrails into these places being protected, right? I mean, you gotta... So when we talk about these places, be aware, most of them are... You gotta reserve at recreation.gov. Yeah. And Bogan Flats is one of those. So is that B-O-G-A-N? You got it. Yeah. Along the Crystal River there between Redstone and Marble. Ooh. Kind of a... Very forested. Cool part of Colorado. Yeah, I've never heard of that one before. Me neither. Yeah. This looks beautiful. Yeah. Look at the photos.

[00:44:04] Very forested. And yeah, it is like right along Crystal River. It's a favorite of Gil Folsom, a writer of Colorado Campgrounds, the 100 best and all the rest. He thinks this is one of the best. A little bit south of McClure Pass, it looks like. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Not too far from Penny Hunt Springs. Yeah. Not too far. Good classic... He called it a really classic river campground, you know, kind of Crystal River running through there. That's cool. You heard of the East Portal campground? Is that at Rock and Mount National Park area?

[00:44:35] Or... Black Canyon and Gunnison. Ooh, Black Canyon and Gunnison. Is this ringing a bell? Yeah. The road that drops down in there? Yeah. Yeah. So this one is first come, first serve, and it's a small collection of tent sites. So you got to have a backup plan going there for sure. It could be... It very well could be all taken up. Located within Kierkanty National Recreation Area, but adjacent to Black Canyon and Gunnison. Yeah. And I think it's...

[00:45:02] If I'm right in thinking it, go like just past the entrance station a little ways, like the main entrance station, and then the road drops down in there. Mm-hmm. Drops down pretty steeply. You can't have a 22-foot vehicle, if I'm thinking that right. Yeah. In other words, think tent. Think tent. Yeah. And no vehicles exceeding 22 feet in length. Mm-hmm. Standard camping fee of $20 a night. Yep. Just a... Yeah. He called it kind of a magical little place, you know, just elder trees tucked down there

[00:45:32] by the river. And Kierkanty National Recreation Area is very cool, too. Like Black Canyon and Gunnison gets a lot of attention, obviously, as a national park, literally adjacent to Blue Mesa Reservoir and the Kierkanty National Recreation Area. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Tons of stuff there. One of my favorite things that I've done in Colorado, actually, was just renting a little pontoon boat out on Blue Mesa Reservoir down there and just spending a day just kind of floating around, you know? Did you camp around there? We did not. We were actually coming back.

[00:46:01] We were mountain biking down in Montrose area. Oh, yeah. And some cool mountain biking out there. Mm-hmm. But, yeah, we were mountain biking there and it stayed kind of in that area. And then, yeah, on our way back, we were renting the boat. And it was great. Was that those Electric Hills trails? Were you checking those out? Those have come on a while ago. Okay. I want to say it was called the Uncolada. Oh, okay. Uncolada. Like the enchilada, the whole enchilada, the famous... Moab, yeah. I think it was called the Uncolada Trail.

[00:46:31] This one caught my eye. How about camping on the National Grasslands? Pawnee National Grassland. Hmm. Crow Valley Campground. This one is courtesy Monica Stockbridge, author of Best Tent Camping in Colorado. She loves this. It's kind of just a... As she described it, you know, just a good... Especially for families, just a quick getaway, you know? If you're looking for just a different kind of nature getaway, big sky, lots of...

[00:47:00] Good for bird watching. Hmm. And, you know, she described it as like the sun rises out on the plains are just, you know... Oh, yeah. So it just lights everything up, you know? Yeah, I bet. Crow Valley Campgrounds. So kind of outside Alt on Pawnee National Grassland. She really loved that one for families. Is that where the Pawnee Buttes are? Or is that... Out around there. Yeah, around there. Yeah, around there. You could bundle that in for sure.

[00:47:27] Always like the recommendations for state parks because there, again, clear management. Mm-hmm. Well-developed campgrounds are typically associated with state parks. And Monica also threw out Pearl Lake State Park. So out by Steamboat. Steamboat Lake is the bigger, closest water there. Mm-hmm. More for motorboats and water sports. But Pearl Lake, she described as kind of a quieter retreat. Mount Circle.

[00:47:55] Mount Circle Wilderness nearby. Looking at the Steamboat website right now, it looks beautiful. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I've never been over to Pearl Lake. A 167-acre mountain reservoir. Yeah. You got the option for yurts? You want to go... Ooh. You want to do glamping there? Oh, yeah. There you go. Yeah, 38 sites and two yurts is what this Steamboat Chamber website says. Also yurts at Mancus State Park. Oh, very good news for them too. This was one from the Falcon's Guide author, Melinda Crow. She loves Mancus State Park.

[00:48:24] Yeah, Mancus spelled M-A-N-C-O-S. Yeah. For those looking it up. In the San Juan country there. Mm-hmm. There again, kind of defined by a reservoir, but also good hiking and good scenic driving around there. And Melinda likes this as a base camp for Mesa Verde. So she was saying she loves Mesa Verde National Park, but camping, she described it as kind of a parking lot. I hope I'm not.

[00:48:52] I don't think she meant to diss Mesa Verde. I don't mean to diss Mesa Verde. She loves it. But she would opt for Mancus State Park as far as camping, where you can be in the trees and you can be by some water. Most importantly, you know, we're talking Mesa Verde. There's not a big body of water over there. So better base camp there. But there's some that got thrown out. Yeah. Yeah. Good list here. Can you, so with the yurt camping, can you bring dogs to yurts? Yes. You can.

[00:49:23] That's cool. Double check. At least I saw, I can't remember, it was Pearl Lake and or Mancus, but there's just a pet fee. Oh, nice. I've seen like maybe a $10 pet fee. At one or both of those, I can't remember. But I think the answer is generally yes across the state park. That's good to know. Asking for myself right now. Yeah. Seeing the photos, I'm like, maybe this yurt stay would be kind of cool. And I know I have a dog who's like, you know, this spoiled golden doodle who'd rather be in a yurt for sure. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:49] So my dog is also spoiled, but her issue is she's very protective. And she's like, her priority of life is like keeping me safe. Yeah. So it's like, if there's wind on the tent, she's like up all night. And she is like, we are under attack. And I'm going to sit here and like just stare at the tent walls. And it's run back and forth. It's a little bit disruptive.

[00:50:17] Last two I would throw out there that I've added to my list. Bear Lake and Blue Lake. Those campgrounds along the Highway of Legend outside La Vida. I was thinking when you said Blue Lakes, I was thinking about another Blue Lakes. So Bear Lake along the Highway of Legends. Yep. And I think they're really close by, those two. And you got to be good with the altitude. They're like around 10,500 feet. Ooh, that sounds cool. Yeah. Different, right? I mean, you don't have to hike out to them? Nope. You can drive in. Dang.

[00:50:46] That's why it kind of seems unique, right? I mean, camping at that elevation. Right off Highway of Legends. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. Highway of Legends was supposed to be very beautiful, right? Mm-hmm. Been on it. Great for the fall. Yep. Of course, at that elevation, you might not, you know, you're rolling the dice with weather potentially. Yeah. At what time in the fall you're going. But yeah, I thought I'd add that to the list too. Kind of isolated back there for sure. Yeah, the views look good too. Yeah. For reference, I'm sitting at a table here with Seth and I'll just keep looking up all

[00:51:15] these photos of these campsites and I'm like, wow, ooh, so pretty. I don't know. It's about that time of year, man. Yeah. It's about that time of year to be dreaming about some good camping spots. Yeah. I might have to. I think this last one might be my favorite one of the recommendations so far here, Seth. Not a terribly far drive from the Springs. Yeah. Get off work and get on over there, I think. Sounds like a friend of me. Yeah, right? Or show up late. Yeah. Yeah. Set up the tent in the dark.

[00:51:44] Still, I've never mastered that too well. In the dark. It ends up happening. Yeah. It's just more enjoyable to set it up in daylight. So there you go. Some good camping options. Yeah, very cool. Places for everyone. Always go with backups. That seems to be maybe the best advice these days when it comes to camping in Colorado. Have a backup plan. Unless you get a reservation. If you don't have a reservation. Exactly. Yeah. And honestly, that's one of those things where it's like, as long as the reservation prices

[00:52:13] are managed in a way that's still friendly and accessible, right? That's a big question. Hopefully, it's kept low. But it is nice to go somewhere and just know you have a spot exactly where it is. And you're going to get the spot you want. Yeah. Like, that's something where I've talked about it a few times before, the Zapata Falls campground down there. Yeah. Some of the spots, you know, you kind of have this beautiful view overlooking the valley and you get great sunsets. Other spots, you don't have quite the valley view.

[00:52:41] So last time I went down there, it was nice to be able to reserve a spot where I knew I had that view. Yeah. I'm with you. It's kind of a mixed bag with the reservation movement, you know, for the same kind of reasons we're talking about. People are going to be nostalgic about their first come, first serve days. But realistically, yeah, I think we all want a little peace of mind. Well, and that just makes it so hard to plan ahead, too, sometimes. Especially if it's like a busy weekend, you know it's going to be busy.

[00:53:08] It's like, how early can you even get up there? Or how early can your average person get up there? Either way, good chat. Good chat. I think that's about all we got for today. So we'll see you next time. Until then. I'm Seth. And I'm Spencer. And we will see you out there. We almost got it. We almost got it.