A chat with the man who hiked a 2,021-mile loop around Colorado in 141 days

[00:00:03] Welcome to another interview episode of the OutThere Colorado Podcast. Today is a very exciting one. Sitting down with Donovan Rice, who just hiked about 2,000 miles around Colorado on what he has called the Great Colorado Route, a route he designed himself. It took him about 141 days or so. So he's going to be here talking about that, sharing his stories. We saw him when he came through Colorado Springs and got to chat with him a bit there. So it's great to see you again, Donovan.

[00:00:32] Yeah, thanks for having me. It's such an honor to be here. Yeah, we've been following along, man. Congratulations. Thank you. I can't imagine what it feels like to finally be done with this. And then also just, I'm so excited to hear how the rest of that hike went. You've done plenty of through hiking in the past. But before we get into that, tell us about the route itself. How many miles was it? What was the elevation gain? When did you start? When did you finish? Everything.

[00:01:01] Yeah. So the Great Colorado Route is about 2,000 miles. What I recorded was 2021. It has about 364,000 feet of elevation, which is over 12 times the elevation of Everest. And it involves extensive cross-country travel and scrambling. Basically, I wanted it to be a maximalist approach to the state. Rather than trying to efficiently get from point A to point B, I really optimized it for beauty and thrills. Just kind of full send Colorado.

[00:01:31] And you pass through all of our national forests, right? Yeah, all 11 national forests, three of our four national parks. I miss Mesa Verde. And then I think 29 or 28 wilderness areas. And then a whole bunch of wilderness study areas on top of that. What about the 14ers? I wind up summiting 12 of them. I think that there's like 15 or 16 that are either on or near the route that you can do. It just kind of comes down to weather and whether you're up for the challenge.

[00:01:58] Well, one thing that's really cool about it is that there are segments for this route. So it's like the average person might not be able to take 141 days off of whatever they're doing to go tackle the route in its entirety. But these segments are also designed to be very rewarding as well, right? Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, for most long distance backpacking trails, I think that the main user is going to be section hikers. Because like you were saying, most people don't have the luxury of being able to take the entire summer off to go on this insane adventure.

[00:02:27] And so it gives people a really long-term section hiking project where they can piece it together year after year. Or maybe they just want to hike one section because they've seen these other parts of Colorado, but they don't know anything about, say, the Uncapagre Plateau. So you mentioned that you designed the route with just kind of trying to capture the best of Colorado in mind, right?

[00:02:51] So what were you looking for? Because one thing that I noticed, you were also including historic trails that are probably very rarely traveled by average hikers.

[00:03:00] Yeah. So a lot of that came down to, I want to hit both the iconic stuff and the epic stuff. And so whether it's well known or not, it's just really what's the coolest site. And then if there's two of them, how do I get between the two? Because one of the big challenges of the route was once I had kind of all the destinations I wanted to hit, now I got to draw the lines in between them.

[00:03:23] And so sometimes you'd find this really hidden gem of a trail. And then other times you're doing the Rio Grande bike path up the Roaring Fork Valley. It's just whatever's available. Yeah. That is pretty wild. I can't imagine, like how long did it take to come up with this route before you started hiking? Yes. So I've been noodling it for about two years. So where the idea really came to me was when I was hiking the Continental Divide Trail, I was going northbound.

[00:03:50] And when I hit the Wyoming border, having just finished roughly 700 miles of Colorado, I was like, that was really cool. And I wish that there was like a 2,000, 3,000 mile hike. That was all just what that was. And so then I started looking into it and there are some things that people have done. So for example, there's been some folks who've connected all the 14ers and continuous through hike.

[00:04:17] And that's really cool. But I was like, there's also stuff beyond the 14ers that I want to hit. And so while I was walking through Wyoming, I started trying to piece things together. And the very first thing I tried to figure out was, is there a way to get across the Gunnison River in Black Canyon of Gunnison? Could I do a rim to rim? And the answer is no, not without a backraft or something. But then after that, I did the Eastern Continental Trail the year after. So one year ago.

[00:04:46] And that was kind of my way of doing the Appalachian Trail, but adding some extra stuff to it. Going from Key West, Florida, all the way up to Newfoundland and had a great time there. And then now that I've done the Triple Crown of through hiking, it's like, I want to give that same level of love to my home state. And so this last winter, I just pulled out the maps and really started tinkering with it. And the big question I had to ask myself is, is this something I just want to do for myself and keep to myself?

[00:05:13] Or is this something that I think is cool enough and rewarding enough to share with the world where other folks would have something to gain from a route like this? And so once I decided, yeah, this is pretty cool. And I think people deserve to know about it. And so I made the website and then the reels kind of took on a life of their own. But it was a zero dollar marketing strategy to say, hey, look at what we got here. Well, and I think it is true that you inspired a lot of people throughout this entire hike.

[00:05:40] Just I mean, and one big part of that, the reason that I found you originally, right, was all the Instagram videos you post. And people can find those on your personal Instagram, which is Iceman Hiketh, if I remember correctly. Yeah, the Iceman Hiketh. The Iceman Hiketh or on the Great Colorado Route Instagram. Daily updates, though, showing what happened each day throughout this 141 day period. Very cool stuff. I love the opening tagline where it's like, good morning, Colorado. And then boom. And then here's what I did that day.

[00:06:11] So you started and you finished in Black Canyon of the Gunnison. Yes, sir. Why did you start and finish there? Yeah, so because it's a loop. In theory, you could start and finish anywhere. But the main consideration there is the seasonal window of what's the right time of year to be hiking different areas. And so starting over in that Grand Junction area, you know, you really want to hit it either spring or fall. You don't want to be hiking there in the summer.

[00:06:37] And so I wanted to tackle that first or last. And then after that, yeah, immediately following that is either San Juans or the Elks, depending on which direction you travel. And so you go from desert to snow, which is really hard to sequence as a through hike. And so Black Canyon gave me all of the Grand Junction stuff and then timed me up for the San Juans at a reasonable time frame, at least by through hiking standards.

[00:07:06] So I was entering the San Juans in the middle of June, which normally there's still plenty of snow. And I still encountered a decent bit. But having done the CDT, I entered at the beginning of June. And so I'm like, OK, I know that it is traversable, even if it is difficult. And so that was kind of the philosophy there. And then as for why counterclockwise versus clockwise, I think it was just that I wanted to hit the Elks during Aspen fall colors. And so I was like, OK, yeah, Maroon Bells and the Raggeds and the West Elks.

[00:07:36] What a great place to finish a trip during fall. Oh, exactly. And I would also imagine, especially with the snowpack we had this last year, maybe a little bit more lingering snow up in that part of the state compared to the San Juans. Because it dried out pretty quickly in the San Juans, correct? Yeah. So that was another thing I was looking at beforehand was what's the relative snowpack of the Elks versus the San Juans. And I think the Elks did have a higher percentage snowpack right when I was thinking about which way to go. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.

[00:08:05] And you started on May 14th and then finished on October 1st. Yeah, that's wild to just see Colorado through that many seasons. Just, I mean, that's the best, in my opinion, the best that the state has to offer between spring and fall and summer. That's my favorite time of the year in Colorado. Mine too. So on this route, you were in some pretty remote spots. So like what would be like the longest stretch where you wouldn't see other hikers?

[00:08:34] You know, I would say that it was pretty rare for me to go more than two full sunrises and sunsets without seeing somebody. So 48 or 50 plus hours, it was pretty rare. I think some of the most like truly remote sections might have been like the Flat Tops Wilderness, the West Elks as well. But I mean, there were several sections where it's like 100 miles between towns, but there's plenty of day hikers, weekend backpackers. I'm using a lot of multi-use trails. So I came across plenty of OHVers and folks like that.

[00:09:04] And you get into town and there's people there, of course. Yeah. And so people understand too, as they're listening, you spent a lot of the time camping. You also kind of, if you were near a town or in a town, would pop off to maybe get like a couch or a bed to sleep on or something. Correct? Yeah. Yeah. So I would camp most nights, but then it's nice to get some R&R in town. And so the basic approach for me for thru-hiking is just get to the next town, reset, get to the next town and reset.

[00:09:31] So it's just this long series of section hikes just pieced all together back to back to back. And yeah, I was incredibly fortunate in the sense that because there was so much interest in the project, there were people reaching out, such as yourself. But there were people reaching out. They're like, hey, I got a spare bedroom or I got a couch you can crash on. And so that was just such a pleasure where I got to save some money and not have to stay at the hotel, but also meet all these really cool folks around Colorado. Yeah.

[00:09:57] It was always fun to see the updates where you would include people that you bumped into along the way. Oh, yeah. And one of the ways that you were supporting this entire effort was donations, correct? So it's like just that alone, it shows the interest in people wanting you to complete this thing. So it's not surprising at all that people were willing to support you along the way there. Oh, yeah. But it was so nice. I mean, I have told people in the past, and this is from my past through hiking experience, but this one was particularly the case.

[00:10:24] But I always tell people, if you want to restore your faith in humanity, go on a through hike and see what magic the world opens up to you. Because by and large, I mean, there's always a rotten egg or something. But by and large, the vast majority of people are stoked about this cool thing you're doing. And they want to see you succeed. And they want to help in whatever capacity they are able to. And so whether it's giving you a Coke that they had in their pack or opening up a place to stay, there are a lot of people who want to see you succeed.

[00:10:50] Did you see people on the trail ever where they would recognize you or know what you were doing? Yeah. It was such a bizarre shift going from first time ever someone saying, wait, are you that guy? And for a while, it was that guy. Then for a little bit, it was, wait, are you great Colorado route? And then where it really blew my mind was like, wait, are you Donovan? And I was like, you know my name. It's wild. And so, yeah, I definitely got recognized in a couple spots. Quite a bit in the San Juans.

[00:11:19] I think it's just because there's a lot of trail runners over there. And then especially in those backpacker heavy areas where you encounter more people that are kind of in this world. Yeah, for sure. That makes sense. So as far as the route goes to kind of go back to that, what were some of your best memories from that route in terms of like a moment you weren't maybe expecting, but it turned out to be just like absolutely incredible? Yeah.

[00:11:44] I would say that one of the places that caught me the most by surprise, I can think of a couple. I mean, the whole Grand Valley area is just so underrated for backpacking. And so it was really beautiful, very different than the rest of Colorado. Instead of going up in the mountains, you're going down through the canyons. So just very unique experience there. But then another spot down in the San Juans, I didn't originally put the route to the Rico Mountains over by the town of Rico.

[00:12:13] And I was chatting with the person who picked me up for a hitchhike. And I was like, hey, I'm not really missing anything over here. And they're like, no, you are. And so I got into town, spent the night there and then chatted with some other folks. And I'm like, just to confirm, like it is worth going over there. And like, yeah, it is. And so when I hitched back up, I actually backtracked a little bit so I could redo the route through those mountains. And it's not like they're these mind blowing, particularly special mountains.

[00:12:38] But it's just like, what a cool part of the San Juans that kind of gets overshadowed by the places that are the 14ers or the Colorado Trail or things like that. And so just a fun, special place. I can think of several other ones. I mean, if you want to give us one more, I think everyone would love it. Yeah, absolutely. I really, really, really liked the Indian Peaks Wilderness and then the Wild Basin side of Rocky Mountain National Park because those were right back to back.

[00:13:04] Granted, I was doing a lot of ridgeline scrambling in that section, but just truly phenomenal, jagged peaks, just stunning terrain. And luckily, you know, they have those regulations in place for like overnight camping, so it can't get overused too much. But it was just like Crater Lake and Muir Lake where you're surrounded by these incredible, incredible cliffs, a really special spot.

[00:13:29] So because you mentioned hitching too there, I want to clarify this to everyone listening as well. In terms of the hitching he's talking about, when somebody picks him up from an area, as myself did in Colorado Springs, the next morning when it gets dropped off, you get dropped off at the exact same spot. Correct. So you're still, it's continuous hiking. It's not someone's hitching you on one side of town and you're getting dropped off on the other. You are doing all the work yourself. Yeah.

[00:13:57] Plenty of people tried to do that, but I would always say no. And, you know, it's kind of hard when you're walking across the San Luis Valley, for example, and someone's like, I can get you to the other side. Or I think someone even commented on one of the videos, you know, you can drive to the base of the Songraise. And I was like, those car things sound pretty convenient. I'll need to Google that. What, so thinking about like some of these stretches where you are walking on, you know, roads just to connect point A to point B on this route that you're on.

[00:14:27] What were some of the stretches that like really seem to be long? We'll say. For sure. I would say that probably the worst road walk is not one people would immediately think of. It was Dallas Divide going from the Ancapagre Plateau to the town of Bridgeway. And the reason that one in particular was a bit more rough than the other ones is because it was a state highway and it was 12 miles. And so a lot of the other road walks, I deliberately tried to avoid the busiest roads.

[00:14:57] And so 12 miles of walking on the shoulder of a highway is not always the most exciting thing. And it's actually one of those areas I want to revisit. I might have to cut a little bit of the Uncompahgre Plateau, but there might be a way to walk more directly to Ridgeway State Park and enter town from the other side. The issue, though, is and the reason why we're even on the roads in the first place is because of private property.

[00:15:19] And so there's this beautiful San Juan ranch out there, but it has very clear signage, no trespassing, no hunting, no pedestrians, equestrians, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And I'm like, OK, they've made it very clear. And so some of these places are just temporary placeholders while I want to come back and explore some more cross-country options. And so another spot would be over by Bailey trying to get to the Mount Evans Wilderness.

[00:15:46] There is a way to kind of go directly north out of Glen Isle and up. I think it's called Grouse Mountain. But I had a terrible weather forecast that day. It said from 10 a.m. until the end of the day, a chance of thunderstorms. And I'm like, I'm not going up a 12,000 foot peak starting at 10. And so instead, I did my backup route, which was less than a mile of 285 up Crow Hill.

[00:16:11] But walking up that little bit of Crow Hill is pretty rough as a pedestrian when you got the cut in the mountains where the road goes through and you're just like, OK, traffic, please be nice. So hoping to come back and refine that section as well as many other areas where I identified problems. So since you mentioned some of that lightning risk, right, let's talk about some sketchy moments on this route. Were you ever scared at any point in time? Yeah. Oh, for sure. Yeah.

[00:16:39] In terms of like true fear, one of them was in the Gore Range. I was trying to do a route that would hit the entire length of the Gore Range. And after doing the Grand Traverse, I was trying to get to Upper Boulder Creek Basin. And to get there from Central Pass, a guy had reached out to me who I come to find out is a little bit more hardcore than I am. So he said, oh, you go up to near Keller Mountain. It's called Keller Pass and then you can drop down.

[00:17:09] It's going to be steep and loose, but it does go. And I get up to Keller Pass and I started walking down and it was like stupid loose, like microwave sized rocks going down. And so I was like I was truly sketched out and I just had to turn around and find a different way to exit. But I was joking they should rename it Killer Pass because I was just like, dude. I also had a similar experience in the San Juans trying to get around Fuller Peak. That was one of the few areas where I was kind of improvising a route rather than going with existing beta from previous hikers.

[00:17:37] And I just picked the wrong side of the mountain where same thing, these microwave sized, boulder sized rocks going down with each step. I'm like I'm not dying in a landslide. So let's turn around and figure something else out. In terms of lightning, I had two close lightning scares. I'm very, very, very cautious when it comes to forecasts.

[00:17:57] I think that especially if anyone wants to hike this route, whether in its entirety or as a section in the future, they need to be a hawk on those forecasts and just be constantly checking them whenever they are about to enter an extended section above treeline. And as many Coloradans know, our forecasts don't always reflect the reality of what happens. And so in the Lugarita wilderness going up San Luis Peak, it said overcast.

[00:18:23] But when I was up there, 14,000 feet of elevation, there was a thunderstorm overhead. The lightning was, you know, maybe one or two ridges over, but it was the same clouds above. And so that really spooked me and I just kind of booked it down the mountain after that guy. But then the really scary one was the Flat Tops wilderness because you get up on top of that escarpment. And so you're surrounded by cliffs and there's only a couple exit points. And same situation where I forecast that I was good.

[00:18:50] And then off in the distance, hey, those clouds look like they're pretty scary. Next thing you know, they're right over me. And so literally just that was one time where I was literally running just to try to lose as much elevation as possible. And it was luckily only a mile. And I don't think lightning actually struck anywhere, but it was definitely thundering every 30 seconds. And so I definitely encourage folks to exercise extreme caution. Yeah, that's actually one of the places where I've had lightning scares. Hiking the Devil's Causeway, you get up there.

[00:19:18] And it is just, you know, miles of just vast openness where you are the tallest thing on that peak. And heard thunder in the distance. And you're right, where in the sense of like, there's not an exit point in a lot of that area where you have to go back to one of those exit points or do something sketchy in itself to get off. But yeah, it's a that is a place where you don't want to be caught. And what was funny about that one is that my exit was actually still on the route that I was following.

[00:19:48] So I didn't have to deviate from it, but dropped me down to Deer Lake. But that's on a bench that has another cliff right below it. And so now I'm camping at 11,000, 12,000 feet of elevation somewhere in there. I think 11, four or something. And so I'm, you know, luckily below these cliffs above. And there's these trees that are around, but I'm not directly underneath. But I'm like, dude, I'm still really high up in elevation here. Yeah. And you're camping there at that point, too, where you're just hoping for the best overnight. Yeah. Did you sleep well? Oh, yeah.

[00:20:17] I slept great because I, for me, I mean, obviously any lightning expert will tell you just go inside. But when you're out in the flat tops, one of the most remote parts of Colorado, yeah, that's not really an option. And so the big thing is not being the tall isolated object or not being directly underneath the tall isolated object. And so, you know, the lightning's way more likely to strike the tree 50 feet over there, 50 feet over there than your tent. So there is a chance to it.

[00:20:47] But I think most people who've done a thru-hike before kind of get accustomed to that level of exposure. Yeah, that makes sense. So were there any moments throughout this massive hike? I mean, you were out there for over four and a half months hiking, which is a major commitment, obviously. And you've had experience in the past where you've done very lengthy hikes, like the one that was like 5,000 miles. Wasn't that like nine months or something close to that? Yeah, that was January 2nd to like October 14th or something.

[00:21:15] So that was a very long one and really beautiful. I mean, going from the swamps in Florida all the way up to caribou country in Newfoundland, you hit a lot of diversity on that. Yeah. So on that note, just with how long this hike is and how big of an adventure it was, were there any moments where you felt like you wanted to give up? Um, there, I don't know if I was ever like truly done. Um, there were, uh, there were times where I was afraid I wouldn't be able to finish.

[00:21:43] Um, but it wasn't like a, I don't want to finish. Uh, and so where that became particularly the case was, uh, near Lake City when there was that gold mountain fire raging over near Ridgeway. Um, the smoke had luckily stayed further North than where I was for quite some time. But as I was kind of working my way east across cannibal plateau and eventually Lagarita wilderness, uh, this really thick smoke rolled in.

[00:22:09] And the day before I was in Lake City and I picked up an N95 mask knowing that, okay, I probably want to be safe just in case. And then I lost it. I left it in town probably. So now there's this heavy smoke and I know the buff doesn't do anything, but I was putting it over my face just in, just to feel like I was doing something. Um, and then where I wound up setting up camp, it was maybe two miles to the highway, uh, near some goalie and pass or something. I forget, but, uh, it was near the highway.

[00:22:36] So worst case scenario, if it hadn't improved the next morning, I could hitch into town and kind of reevaluate, maybe have to jump forward a stretch and then revisit that section later, but cleared up the next morning and then didn't really have much smoke to contend with after that. But there was like that one moment when I was like, Oh no. Yeah. I bet. Yeah. Um, so we've talked about the route and your experience on the route quite a bit. I want to talk about food. Like you were covering a lot of mileage. You are out by yourself with just your pack, you know, for a lot of these days, how are you

[00:23:06] getting enough calories and how are you eating it? And even just like a kind of healthy wave while you're on the trail and able to keep sustaining yourself and keep going. Yeah. You can probably throw the term healthy out. I mean, some people are a lot better at trying to have a healthy diet while through hiking. Um, I just, uh, prefer to, uh, kind of improvise food when I get to towns rather than planning ahead and shipping a package with an at home dehydrator or something. And so a lot of my resupplies.

[00:23:35] So Rico, just another, I just bring them up again. They have a gas station and that's your resupply point. Yeah. So it's like, okay, how can I get four days out of a gas station here? Um, and so what I would wind up eating, uh, breakfast almost every morning was two honey buns. Uh, then it was snacking throughout the day, whether it was nuts, jerky, um, sometimes dried fruit, a lot of trail bars, a bag of gummies, uh, candy bars, rice, crispy treats. Like it's not necessarily the healthiest diet.

[00:24:04] Uh, but the big thing I try to make sure I hit is, uh, protein and carbs, uh, but especially protein. Um, and so one of my staples was a block of cheese. And so, uh, you know, I just get a half pound block of cheese and I'd either do one of those or half of those a day. And, um, since I'm only out there for about four days, typically it's fine, um, without refrigeration for that period of time. And, uh, then dinner, um, I'm one of those crazies that doesn't carry a stove.

[00:24:30] I just carry a cold soaking jar, add water and let it reconstitute and have cold, mushy crushed ramen instant mashed potatoes, couscous, things like that. Um, so not necessarily the healthiest diet, but it's just kind of that volume game like you were playing. It's just, how do I get that many calories in? And so, um, the big thing is just carrying food that you're willing to eat. You know, it's, it's, uh, there's no sense having your emotional support, uh, trail bar in the bottom of your pack that you've been carrying for two months. Like you really want to carry stuff that you can put down. Yeah.

[00:25:00] That makes sense. How many calories a day were you consuming about? I would reckon about 5,000. I'm not sure. Um, I did wind up losing about 20 pounds on this trip, which isn't the worst. I lost, I think about 50 pounds on the Pacific crest trail and some of that was good weight to lose, but other parts were not good weight to lose. Um, and so, uh, I was much more stable for this one. I would say, um, like I'm not, I'm not skin and bones right now, which I'm pretty happy about. Yeah.

[00:25:28] I think, uh, I forget what year it was, but speaking of people who threw hike all the 14 years, uh, I interviewed, uh, if I remember his name correctly, uh, Paweł Zifruga. Okay. I want to say, um, I'm hoping, I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. Uh, but he was out of Durango and he walked between all of the 14ers and, uh, just literally in one, it was like, I think it was only like 30 something days that he did it into. Like it was shockingly short.

[00:25:52] Um, but he, uh, he was telling me his main, main fuel throughout that time was like tortillas and like beef jerky or like beef sticks and, uh, whatever you can get at a gas station. Like I say. And I remember he was dealing with, uh, and he was talking about it in the interview, but dealing with some, like, I think like liver issues after that, just because of how much sodium he had had and for so long. Um, do you, did you notice any sort of like detrimental side effect of doing this hike

[00:26:20] or maybe the other hikes that you've gone on that have been these massive through hikes? Like not yet, knock on wood. So, uh, I mean, I think there's been some like peer reviewed empirical research on through hiking on the health effects that have. And so some people might think that like, oh, you're getting this exercise every single day. It's like this super healthy activity. It's like, no, you're eating junk food all day. And like, you're probably going to injure yourself at some point. And so I, I haven't looked too much into it, but there are some, uh, definite risks with this lifestyle.

[00:26:50] Yeah. Hey, it makes sense. Uh, what about wildlife? You ever have any wildlife encounters? Oh, I saw plenty of wildlife on this trip. Um, I mean the, the megafauna that people care about, I saw 10 bears, um, nine of them out in the wilderness, one in town in Crested Butte. Um, and then I saw plenty of moose, had one really up close moose encounter in the Maroon Belt, Snowmass wilderness. Uh, luckily he just. Wanted to walk down the trail. So I got out of his way. He didn't seem to appreciate that uphill traffic has the right of way, but you know, not going to argue with a moose.

[00:27:18] And then, uh, uh, beyond that, um, you know, plenty of deer, elk, pronghorns, um, didn't see any mountain lions or bobcats. I'm sure some of them saw me though. Uh, like over by, um, Canyon city area between that and Victor. Um, I guess Fremont County has the highest density of mountain lions. And there was one part up on, I think Cooper mountain where I got disconnected from the trail. And so I was kind of just doing this cross country bushwhack and there were plenty of droppings.

[00:27:46] I'll say that much, but, uh, luckily didn't run into those guys. Um, some of the cooler ones, the wild mustangs over by the book cliffs and then, uh, the, the aquatic tiger salamanders in the Santa Lans. Uh, it's just, that was a huge eyeopener for me. I didn't know. I mean, I had heard that we had salamanders, but I didn't realize that we have, um, this kind of salamander that can either metamorphize into a land animal or it can, uh, petamorphize. It can, it can retain its juvenile traits and just stay fully aquatic into its adult years.

[00:28:16] And at least from my limited research on it, it just comes down to, um, what the environmental conditions are like when they kind of hit that transition stage and then their body kind of knows, okay, do we swap or do we just stay here in the water where it's warm? Um, dang, I'm learning something right now too. Yeah. Yeah. That video, uh, specifically, I think that might've been one of the first videos I saw of yours, uh, where I like really, cause like, I think I'd seen a few, but then that one I was like, oh, whoa, this is one of the coolest things I've ever seen in Colorado is like looking

[00:28:45] down into the water and there's all these little salamanders doing their thing. Yeah. And there were hundreds of them. It was so bizarre. I mean, it's like, who knew Colorado had these axolotl type things? Yeah. That's so cool. Um, with, uh, with the wildlife. Uh, did you ever run into issues with bears at your tent or anything like that? No. Um, so the nine that I encountered them in the wilderness areas, um, they all just ran away the second they saw me.

[00:29:10] Um, and then, uh, the one in Crested Butte, uh, the guy who was hosting me, uh, he was letting me sleep in his camper that was parked outside of his house. And then I made a silly mistake where it was trash day the next morning. And so a lot of people, I'd put their trash bins out overnight and, uh, yeah, like 1am I hear the trash bin literally across the street get knocked over and I'm like, oh God, there's a bear. And so, uh, get my headlamp. And I, the mistake I made is that I had my food bag inside the camper. I should have left it inside the house.

[00:29:37] And so, um, if there's a camper here, the car parked and then the road, um, I saw him walking next to the car. So I opened the door and just ran down the road. Oh, that's so funny. Yeah. You got to protect the, got to protect the gear when it's all in one bag there. Yeah. And honestly, I mean the, the critters I had the most issues with in terms of food was marmots. Oh, because, uh, in several sections I'm camping up above treeline at least before monsoon season. And so when you, uh, you know, marmots are cute. They're great.

[00:30:06] I love them, but I don't like camping next to them. Uh, when you bring, uh, food near their house and you're not kind enough to share, they will try to take it from you. And so, you know, all night just saying, shoo, shoo. And there's, and it's like you're above treeline. So there's nowhere to hang it. Yeah. And so, um, you know, there are solutions like a bear canister or, uh, or a critter resistant food bag, but, uh, it just kept bothering me all night and just kind of grew a newfound hatred of the critters. Fair enough.

[00:30:35] Um, how much, so looking at your gear bag, how much did that weigh while you're doing this? So I would say that, um, I carried roughly two pounds of food per day and that's probably, um, more than I needed. Uh, I would often roll into town with like half a day or an extra day of food leftover. And one of the, I mean, that's kind of how I do things normally, but what that, uh, why that was particularly important for this hike is cause I'm not following an established trail. And so I don't know if I'm going to hit some sort of setback, whether I get cliffed out or hit private property and have to add 10 more miles.

[00:31:06] Um, and so, uh, that gave me a lot of flexibility where I see something cool off in the distance. I'm like, Oh, we'll just go over there for the fun of it. And so, uh, carrying a little bit extra food, um, gave me some padding for that for sure. Yeah. That makes sense. What about water? Like what were you doing for that? Cause I can add a lot of weight. Oh yeah. So the most water I ever carried was nine liters. So over two gallons, which is about 20 pounds and that is rough. Um, so that the areas where that was particularly, um, a challenge would be again over in the grand

[00:31:35] junction area or down by Canyon city, maybe a little bit in North park. Um, but, uh, for the most part I was carrying maybe one and a half to three liters of water. Um, I mean, for a lot, large section of the trip, even though it was a low snow year, the streams are still flowing, even if at a very seduced, sorry, very reduced rate. Um, and, uh, so I could still collect water, even if it's going to take me a minute to collect it. How were you collecting water? Yeah.

[00:32:04] So, um, I was just carrying two plastic water bottles, uh, the classic three record move of a smart water bottle. Uh, and then I would have my water filter screwed on top. It's just a squeeze filter. So, um, I would just, uh, carry dirty water and then drinks directly through the filter. By squeezing the bottle. And then if I needed to carry more than a liter and a half, I would then filter into a clean bottle and then I would have those two. And if I exceeded the three liter capacity of the water bottles, um, I had a couple, uh, bladders that I carried and could just scoop up the water that way. Yeah.

[00:32:34] Were you always, uh, so when you're drinking a lot of this water, obviously the, they did their job and that kept you from getting sick, I would assume. Yep. Um, did you ever have any sort of sickness during this 141 days you had to deal with? Um, I mean, maybe like the occasional cold, uh, sore throat, things like that. But beyond that, I was really lucky that I was in good health and didn't really injure myself, um, throughout this trip. Uh, part of the reason behind that though, is that I'm very, very on top of taking rest days.

[00:33:02] And so it's not that I hiked every 141 days, you know, about every five to seven days I would take a rest day and just do no hiking if I could at all, at all manage that. Um, and that just gave my body a chance to catch up. Yeah. That makes sense. Um, to kind of talk just really quickly, a little bit more about your gear. Uh, what did you find was like the most valuable piece of gear that you had with you? Oh, and maybe one that you didn't expect even to, but yeah. Um, I really fell in love with hiking with an umbrella.

[00:33:31] And so, uh, it has dual purpose. Um, one would be, uh, for rain, uh, where as long as it's not crazy windy, you know, if the rain's falling vertically, you just pull out your umbrella and it keeps the bulk of the rain off of you. I still had a rain jacket and rain pants. Um, but, uh, you still get wet when you're wearing those. And so the umbrella just kind of kept most of it off me on top of that. So it was an extra layer of defense. And then it was also helpful for sun protection and some of these more sun exposed spots,

[00:33:58] whether it's walking across the San Luis Valley, the wet mountain Valley, uh, Kampa Valley, and all these valleys that are between the mountain ranges I wanted to get to. Like in terms of like when you're doing a through hiking, that makes total sense though. Yeah. I don't think I've ever seen someone with an umbrella on a hike before. Yeah. It's more popular in desert hiking, uh, for the sun protection mostly, but, uh, rain is also really helpful. Yeah. That makes, I mean, that absolutely makes perfect sense.

[00:34:26] Um, so I definitely want to chat with you a little bit about, uh, what it was like to finish this, this trail after 141 days you roll into black can of the gus and what was that moment? Like, yeah, you know, I wish I could say that I got to the finish point and I had all of life figured out after 141 days out in the wilderness. Um, and that's certainly not what happened, but I, you know, there was this immense sense of accomplishment and like just really proud that I pulled it off and, um, you know, succeeded.

[00:34:56] I was like, cause it's one thing to do a through hike. It's another thing to design it and then see it come to life. And the fact that other people are interested in possibly doing it, whether as a section or in its entirety, it's like, this is really cool. And so, uh, there was definitely some relief in the sense of like, oh, I'm free back to the world of deodorant. Can't wait. But, uh, it, it, it was, um, really special, uh, just seeing it all come together.

[00:35:23] Um, and so, uh, you know, there were, I mean, probably the biggest emotion I experienced repeatedly throughout the trip was the emotion of awe, just being completely awestruck by like, that's so beautiful. Whoa, that's so cool over there. And just back to back to back. Um, and so it was a really special trip just cause I think, um, you know, I designed this to be kind of my dream hike. Um, I was chatting with Kevin Silvernail, the guy behind the Northern Colorado trail, the

[00:35:52] no-co and, uh, I was kind of picking his brains. I was like, should I make this something that's more accessible and mostly on trails or should I just go full set and design what I want? He's like, dude, do what you want. Like if it resonates with you, maybe it'll resonate with someone else who, you know, has all these existing trailed options and they don't have this high route option that you're creating. And so, um, being able to just give myself the permission to do like this crazy adventure. I was, it was really special to me. Very cool.

[00:36:20] Um, how's it been in the days they've followed readjusting to, uh, to, to life in a, in a more typical sitting setting for most people? Yeah. You know, refrigerated water is pretty cool. Um, a car is nice. Uh, I am still kind of in that decompressing stage. So I'm giving myself a lot of grace and just kind of slowly easing back into things. Uh, and so right now kind of on that media tour of sorts, but, um, need to start looking

[00:36:48] for a job, uh, and then, um, you know, start cooking meals as opposed to ordering takeout and things like that. But that's been going pretty well overall. I mean, this is my fourth major through hike. Um, and so it's not new. It's just always a bit of a transition. Yeah. Very cool. Um, so, I mean, that's pretty much a lot of the questions I have about this hike. But, uh, as I mentioned earlier, your Instagram name is Iceman or the Iceman Hiketh. Yes, sir.

[00:37:16] Uh, you want to tell us about the Iceman nickname? Yeah. So, uh, through hikers, we all love our trail names. Um, and, uh, part of the rules that most people follow is that someone else has to name you. Um, you know, some people do name themselves and I'm perfectly cool with that. I think it's just whatever resonates with you the most. But, um, uh, I got the name Iceman on my first through hike, which was the Pacific Crest Trail. And, uh, I was going through Southern California near Mount San Jacinto.

[00:37:44] And, uh, it was my first time ever having to camp on like a full field of snow. And so I stomp it all out and I had a trekking pole tent where the stakes need to go into snow to keep the tension, to keep the tent up. But because it was that really mushy snow, the stakes kept falling out. And so, uh, I kind of researched ahead of time. Uh, what's my solution if I ever hit this kind of, what's my solution? If I ever hit this kind of situation. And, um, I realized that mountaineers do dead man anchors. And so I just took grocery bags, Ziploc bags, filled them with snow, tied the guy lines around

[00:38:14] them, and then buried them a foot deep eight times around the tent. And it worked like a charm that the tent stayed up all night. Um, but I failed to account for something. And that would be that snow tends to refreeze overnight. And so when I woke up, I had these eight anchors cemented deep into the ground, holding the tent there. And unlike a mountaineer who has a base camp that he don't needed to move, I needed to get going. So I had to borrow an ice axe from another hiker to mine him out. And while I was doing that, he was kind of going through some names and he's like, Iceman, that's your name.

[00:38:42] And then, uh, what really made the name, uh, stick or what really solidified the name, uh, was, uh, further North in the Sierra Nevada mountains. Um, I, uh, deliberately was avoiding camping on snow, uh, below, uh, Forrester pass. It's kind of one of the more iconic, uh, passes along the trip and I deliberately camp on not snow and I'm hiking with a group and we all agree we're going to do this Alpine start at like four in the morning so we can get up and over the snow while it's still firm and you're not post-holing.

[00:39:12] And it turns out where I camped was on this soft clay and then overnight the tent floor sunk into that and then that froze overnight. And so now I'm up at three 30 in the morning trying to pack up and I realized it's not just my guy line, it's the tent fabric itself literally frozen into the ground. And now I can't use an ice axe because I don't want to put a hole in my tent. And so now at three 30 in the morning, boiling water, pouring it on the ground, trying to soften it up enough and, you know, just delaying everyone in that group's through hike.

[00:39:38] And, uh, but we got it out and, uh, kept moving forward and just thanks for a fun story afterwards. Oh yeah. No, that's awesome. Um, well, yeah, I think that's, uh, that's about all I've got for you today. I know Seth wants to come on here and ask you a few questions. Uh, so I'm saving, saving some time for him over here. Um, but before we do that, everyone can find you on Instagram, great Colorado route. The website is great Colorado route.

[00:40:05] Um, then also the Iceman hike it on Instagram as well. Is there anywhere else somebody should look? Yeah. Um, also on Facebook, um, great Colorado route. And then, um, I'm thinking of, uh, re-uploading the reels to, uh, possibly YouTube, maybe TikTok, uh, just so it gets on more platforms and more people can see it. Very cool. So, uh, people should definitely connect with you. Uh, definitely shoot him a follow.

[00:40:30] Um, I really thought your, the reels you were making were just so consumable in the sense of like, it's a, you know, it's 141 days of hiking and just being able to go on there and just one after the next, just see some of the coolest parts of Colorado. And with your narration kind of talking through what, what people are seeing, what that experience is like, uh, someone could literally start it the first one and go all the way through and just spend hours and hours. Like how many hours of reels do you have? Um, I mean, this is probably going to be a slight overcount.

[00:40:59] But three minutes times 141, whatever that winds up being. Um, so is that about 423 minutes? So what is that? Uh, seven hours. Okay. So that's a nice, uh, television season right there. Seven hours of content. Binge watch that. Yeah. People should definitely go check those out. And I think something you'll notice, uh, to our, to our listeners who are going to go and to go check those out.

[00:41:25] You'll notice that you see a lot of these spots that you've heard of before, but also all these places that you kind of found that are unexpected. And that a lot of people who have spent a lot of time exploring Colorado probably have no clue they're even there. Yeah, absolutely. Um, it's been, it's been real fun connecting these. And that was part of, oh, I want to get from here to here. What's my public land corridor. And so you find out about things like grape Creek and you're like, I don't think anyone

[00:41:52] has a special reason to go out to that particular spot, but because we're going through there, it's like, how cool is this? So, uh, just this really beautiful section and it's kind of same thing dotted around the state. So like service Creek wilderness, another one where it's not really stand out, but it's just kind of a cool part of Colorado. You might not otherwise see. Yeah. Very cool stuff. Um, all right. Well, I'm going to give my seat to Seth here and let him chat with Donovan for a second. Uh, some bonus questions on the interview episode today, Seth over there listening and

[00:42:21] hiding out in the corner. Um, yeah, Seth, you're up. I love what you said about like just opening yourself up to the magic of the world. Yeah. You know, I mean, and that's just one instance of it, like little drops of wisdom like that

[00:42:49] that you might encounter and the magic that we see and that, that people bring into our lives. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's Colorado is a special place, but I will say, um, uh, one of the, one of the big highlights for me was getting to go to all these small towns dotted around the state places I'd never been to. And so places like Oak Creek, Walden, Allen's park, uh, Crestone, Victor, you know, all these small towns that are really cool. And people actually chat with each other on the street.

[00:43:16] It's a really cool, small community of people who are generally happy. I don't know if it's like super claustrophobic and there's like some behind suits drama, but, uh, you know, as, as the, the traveler just kind of passing through, um, it was really special to visit these places. It's funny you mentioned that. I was going to ask you that. I mean, we talk about all these wild places that you got to see, but the urban places, the towns. Yeah. I mean, did you, you had your eyes open to some of these towns around this state where you've always been? Oh yeah. It was so cool. I mean, so like probably the coolest one was the town of Ophir.

[00:43:45] Um, so they reached out to me, uh, a resident there. And then also the town manager reached out to me, but, uh, before either of them had heard about my hike, excuse me, um, before either of them had heard about my hike, uh, they had a conversation cause the, the resident, he had done the Colorado trail and I think several other through hikes, but, uh, the town manager reached out to me. He's like, Hey, you know, that through hiking thing you've mentioned, um, do any through hikes go through our town?

[00:44:12] Cause I think it'd be pretty cool to open up our town halls as like a place that they could stay at overnight. And then like literally one or two weeks later, they figure out that I'm going straight through their town and like three weeks from now. Yeah. And so they reached out and they're like, yeah, we, we'd love to host you in our town hall. And so, so now we're going to see Ophir home of the great Colorado route. Oh yeah. Pretty soon. A trail community. Yeah. Yeah. It was really cool. Thank you. That's great. All right.

[00:44:38] So back, backtracking quite a, uh, maybe a little ways here, Donovan, um, how the outdoors came into your life in the first place. How far back does that go for you, man? Yeah. So, um, I grew up in golden and, um, definitely outdoorsy parents. And so, um, uh, my dad has a rafting business both in Idaho Springs and down in Canyon city. And then, uh, my mom would take me camping over by lakes and go fishing all the time growing up as a kid.

[00:45:05] And so, uh, skiing, rafting, hiking, camping, uh, mountain biking, everything you can think of just did a lot of that growing up. And then, um, how I kind of got into backpacking was while I was an undergrad at DU, I was, uh, starting to pick up an interest in doing the 14ers in state. And so as I started knocking those off the list, uh, some of them are most easily done by setting up a base camp. So you hike in the 10 mile approach hike, set up base camp.

[00:45:33] And then one day you do this peak, the next day you do that peak. And so that's how I got into backpacking originally was just this, you know, weekend level trip. But while I was researching what gear to buy for those backpacking trips, that's when I found out about this thing called through hiking or backpacking. You're like, what do you mean people can walk from Mexico to Canada? That's insane. So, uh, I just couldn't shake that idea from my head though. And so after finishing up undergrad, I took a gap year before going into grad school and did the Pacific crest trail. And at first I thought it was going to be one and done.

[00:46:02] I thought, okay, I had my fun. Um, but I really wanted to do the continental divide trail at some point. Cause that was the one, uh, between the Pacific crest trail, the continental divide trail and the Appalachian trail. The CDT was the one that really resonated with me given my roots in the Rockies, but I didn't feel like I had the experience to do that one first. And so I did the PCT as a compromise, uh, and then, uh, kind of crashed and burned out of grad school, but I was able to salvage a master's even though it was a PhD program originally. Uh, but when life handed me lemons, I made lemonade and, uh, then CDT.

[00:46:31] And then at that point, I think I got an incurable case of a hiking bug. And so, uh, CDT, uh, Eastern continental trail, which is just an extended version of the AT. And then, uh, and then I was like, okay, well, yeah, let's, let's, let's, uh, hit off all these bucket list items I've been saving in Colorado for a long time, but never got around to doing. And let's just throw them all into a through hike. Yeah. Your parents sound like the types who, uh, understand that their kid needs to be outside for a long period of time.

[00:46:59] You know, I mean the outdoorsy lives that they had. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so it's, it's fun where they're really supportive. And so like my mom, for example, she has kind of, we've kind of established this tradition of where she'll pick me up from the Northern terminus or wherever I call it at, uh, at a hike. So, um, uh, she did that for the Pacific crest trail. She flew all the way out to the Northern Newfoundland to pick me up there. No way. Also drove out to black Canyon of the Gunnison, uh, this time. So that was really cool. And then, um, my dad kind of, uh, is always playing all across the state.

[00:47:29] So I got to see him like maybe like five or six times across this hike. So it was really cool. Very cool. So I hear about the education. I think, uh, there was a, there was a career in mind of sorts at, at some point in your life. Oh yeah. So, uh, uh, for some time I really was convinced I wanted to be a professor. Um, and kind of the field I landed in was sociology and I, I, I really liked it. But, um, the issue for me is that I was a much better consumer of knowledge than I was a producer of knowledge.

[00:47:56] And so undergrad, that's all that's expected of you. But then transitioning to a PhD program where you're expected to start producing original research, I was just completely a fish out of water. Um, and I think I had some growing up to do. And so that world is always open if I wanted to return to it. And, uh, you know, for now we're just riding this wave. Uh, I don't know if this is a phase or a lifestyle, it's probably a chapter. And so who knows how long this chapter will be. It seemed the best, uh, lessons in sociology might be out in the mountains. Oh, for sure.

[00:48:26] There's so many. Um, and so, uh, if nothing else, it gives you, uh, really critical thinking abilities. And so it's, you know, always being willing to ask both sides of the question. So, uh, one example would be, uh, for all the people who are concerned about posting these, uh, wild places online, how that might potentially lead to overcrowding and what are the detriments there? The opposite question would be, okay, what are the upsides to posting online? And it's like, oh, it's raising awareness.

[00:48:55] And then if people do go out and recreate there, that gives them a vested interest in protecting this place and keeping it public. Uh, and so there's always two sides to that. Um, but yeah, sociology, um, you know, it's primarily focused on, um, inequality. And so, uh, there's this great book, uh, black faces, white spaces, where it talks about how the outdoors is conventionally considered a white space, um, and how that creates access issues from folks, uh, of color. Yeah.

[00:49:22] And so there, there's all sorts of different ways to go on about it. Yeah. So all that stuff is on your mind when you're making your way out there. Mm-hmm. Um, I wondered what else is on your mind when you're out there, you know, like what, what, what, you know, on those long days, on those long mileage days, like what's. Yeah. Um, sometimes. If anything, right. I mean, some people talk about that, like they don't gotta. Yeah. You know, some thoughts are profound, some are pretty mundane. And so, um, like one example I can think of, uh, there was one day where, um, I was

[00:49:51] trying to think of, uh, a color that started with each letter of the alphabet. And so you're just like, okay, what's a color that starts with E? And you kind of ponder that for a while and like, ecru. Okay. We got E. Wow. And then you're like, start working your way. And then you're like, okay, Z. I mean, zebra doesn't really count. So you're just really trying to figure it out. But, um, you know, I, uh, under my past hikes, I would listen to a lot of music or podcasts. Um, but this one, um, it was a lot of just kind of listening to the sounds of nature and my own thoughts.

[00:50:20] And part of that was just a, uh, power bank energy management issue where, uh, because I was not only doing the video recording, but especially because I was doing the GPX recording of the route that would just train my phone battery much quicker. And so I was already carrying three times the normal, uh, power banks I would. And so I'm like, I don't want to carry a fourth one just to have music. Yeah. I love what you told Spencer just now about, you just sort of quickly mentioned it. But when you got back to the black Canyon, you said something along the lines of like,

[00:50:49] I wish I could tell you I had it all figured out at that point. Like is part of it is part of these long trips, these long through hikes getting closer to figuring it out, you know? Yeah. I really like to think so. Um, cause I, I would say that, um, you know, there's kind of two classes of through hikers when we're on this discussion topic. There's people who are running away from things and there are people who are running towards something. And so, you know, through hiking is an opportunity to escape the world and it's whether you use that time productively or not.

[00:51:18] And so some people, they're just kind of shutting off the world and, uh, avoiding it. Whereas other people are like, I want to really take some time to myself. I want to, you know, experience the magic of the world. I want to see what, um, you know, how resilient I am. I want to see what I can endure. I, uh, want to meet new people and make new friends and just see how people from all walks of life can band together on a common cause of walking, uh, this great distance.

[00:51:44] Uh, and so whether it's time alone or time with other folks, it can be really productive out there. How about you? What keeps you going? What keeps you going after these long ventures, man? Yeah. Um, you know, for me, I can say one thing. It definitely isn't, I'm not too interested in suffering. Uh, so that, so I, uh, you know, a lot of this through hiking, um, you know, a lot of people talk about embrace the suck, embrace the brutality. It's a suffer fest and I want to suffer brag about how hard it was. Yeah.

[00:52:12] And, um, for folks who've watched my videos, uh, they would realize that I don't really put a lot of emphasis on that stuff. Like, yeah, there's challenging moments, there's setbacks, there's frustrations, uh, things like that. Um, but, uh, for me, it's just that type one fun of like, what a beautiful place this is and what a cool way to get across this terrain. And so, um, and so for example, uh, being able to go, um, from American basin up Andy's

[00:52:39] peak down and up sunshine, then red clown, red cloud, and then several 13ers down to Lake city. I'm like, okay, cool. We got the 14ers, which are already really cool. But then, um, but then to add in all these 13ers, 12,000 foot peaks, and it's not always the summits too. I mean, so in the needles range and the women, each wilderness, you know, I, it was just a lot of passes through this really rugged and remote terrain that was exceedingly beautiful. Yeah. So linking that up, if I'm hearing you right, like you, there's a part of your brain that's

[00:53:09] like, how do I link this up? Like, you know, like, and yeah, how do I get from here to here? Yeah. So, and that's one thing where a lot of folks, cause I got a lot of helpful tips from locals cause they know their background. They know their backyard more than I do. And so, um, there'd be a lot of folks who'd be like, oh, you got to check out this. Oh, you got to check out this. And, um, by and large, the vast majority really were helpful. Uh, the one thing that people don't always keep in mind is that I not only have to get there, I have to keep going from there and I can't do an out and back.

[00:53:39] And so, um, I don't hit everything in Colorado. I don't hit four corners area. I don't hit dinosaur national monument area. Um, so watch range is kind of the big one that people point out. Uh, and then, you know, the Eastern grasslands, um, are kind of like the big, big ones that I miss. Um, and it was just, what can I reasonably do in a summer? Yeah. It's one through hike. Like, uh, what lines up with seasonal windows and then is there a way to get both there and back? Yeah. Um, without having to do an extreme road walk or something. Yeah.

[00:54:08] Um, I'm hearing you talk about those places that you didn't hit. Yeah. So now you're thinking, how do I hit those places? Oh yeah. You know, yeah. So yeah, you know, like actually just even driving here today, I was thinking about, I'm like, uh, I know that, um, folks might look at the map and be like, man, he goes from, uh, he goes over to West cliff, then Canyon city, then Victor and Colorado Springs. Divide and Bailey. What if we just kept going North and the song grades and then into the swatch range? And it's like, that is an option.

[00:54:36] Um, and it's one of those things I want to investigate more as like, for me, it was just really important to highlight that part of Colorado cause it's so different. Um, and, uh, so maybe next summer I'll do like this mini loop where I, uh, go from Crestone up the song grades, up the swatch range, then loop back and go down the mosquito mountains. Cause I haven't, I haven't had any defenders of the mosquito mountains and they're right there too. Interesting. So, uh, the Browns Canyon area, you know, things like that could do a mini loop there. Yeah. The planes. Yeah.

[00:55:06] That would be interesting. That's where you'd really want your umbrella. Yeah. Yeah. And tick protection. Um, but, uh, you know, the big challenge with both, what are they called? Um, is it Pawnee grassland or Comanche Pawnee? And those are the two national grasslands. I'm sure there's state ones as well, but, um, yeah, those ones, it's just like, I can't walk all the way across Fort Collins and back, um, to get to Comanche, um, or Pawnee, Pawnee's that North one. Um, and then, yeah, I mean, it'd be cool.

[00:55:35] I think that Eastern Colorado is probably best experience if you're wanting to do these long distance endurance, um, beats at probably best on a bike. Yeah. Uh, bike packing it. Cause it, cause, uh, the other thing is if you pull out a public lands map, you realize that almost everything East of, uh, you know, I 25 is mostly private. Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about that too. Uh, I was also thinking about when you're talking about like the, like the popularity, if that's the way to put it around suffering, right?

[00:56:04] It seems like a dark thing to say, but something along those lines. Oh, for sure. But yeah, but it's voluntary suffering. So it's very different. It's, it could be transformative. And so there's this great book on it. Uh, the, the comfort crisis that people are too comfortable being comfortable these days and they need to seek voluntary hardship to show that they're capable of overcoming these things and prove how strong and capable they are. Um, and so there's tremendous value in that. Um, but you know, I, the last thing I want to do is go online and say, this sucked, you know, and I was miserable.

[00:56:32] It's like, no, look how beautiful this is. And no, it's okay that, you know, I didn't get to the summit of longs peak because it was too windy that day or something like that. But, um, you know, that's just the reality of what happens when you go out there and I don't really like ruminating or dwelling on that stuff. Interesting. And I guess my mind was going to like, like if that's part of like the hardest times that you were talking about with Spencer, the times where you, you know, you were pretty, pretty spooked. Yeah. Like I can't help but wonder if that's part of the thrill too, if that's what keeps you

[00:57:02] coming back to some of these things or if I'm, if I'm exaggerating that as someone who's never hiked crazy miles like that. Oh yeah. You know, is there an adrenaline side? Yeah. Um, you know, and that's something I try to be careful about a little bit because I think that, um, you know, it can become a game of always one upping yourself. And so you do, you get away with this crazy thing. And so then you try to do something even crazier and you know, there's going to come a point where that's going to backfire in your face.

[00:57:26] Um, and so, uh, once really sobering experience was going across the San Juans between, uh, obstruction peak and challenger points to going over Kit Carson and challenger point, the 14ers and then some of the 13ers before it and going down Columbia point, you're going down a goalie and a rock slipped out from underneath my foot and I fell afoot. And luckily it happened there as opposed to a hundred yards ahead or a hundred yards back where had I fallen, it wouldn't have just been a foot and it probably would have been a body retrieval, uh, situation.

[00:57:56] So, um, you know, whenever you hear about these deaths in like 14ers or different parts of Colorado, I think a lot of people's immediate reaction is, Oh, inexperienced or not being prepared. And it's like, no, there are people who are plenty prepared and plenty experienced who just get caught in a really bad spot, really poorly timed, just an unfortunate accident. I know, um, one of the deaths this year on one of the 14ers, he was two days in front of me and he had been up that mountain like 40 plus times and just had that one terrible

[00:58:26] slip at one terrible spot. And so, uh, it's something I, you know, I really try to urge that this route is demanding and you have to have a tolerance for risk. And if you're an adrenaline junkie and that's how you get high, sure. But, um, you know, I, uh, one thing I was very deliberate about is I didn't want it to be any class five train. I didn't want it to be true free soloing. Um, and so I didn't want it to require ropes, a helmets, smart idea just cause you never know when someone's going to send a rock up down above you.

[00:58:56] Um, but, uh, I've still wanted it to be doable, even if it is challenging. Makes sense. I think many would ask how like you manage life throughout it, you know, for how many days was it? 141, 141, you know, like what life looks like away from that. And if there's a part of that too, that you got to account for, you know? Oh, what's like outside of the trails? Yeah. Yeah. You know, I'm really boring outside.

[00:59:25] You know, I, uh, you don't seem like it at all. Well, thank you. But, but yeah, I mean, I, um, I, I live a very, very, very simple lifestyle. Um, you know, I don't have a lot of fancy toys. I don't, I'm not saddled with debt. Um, so, uh, you know, a big part of that was that I didn't, I didn't graduate or when I graduated college, I didn't have any college debt. I don't have any medical debt. Um, part of the, I mean, most of that was scholarships, but there was also help from family. And that's obviously a huge, uh, help as well.

[00:59:52] Having that safety net there, um, that not everyone has access to. Um, but yeah, it's the last couple of winners has been this seasonal gig rotation. So, uh, last winter I was up in Allen's park doing a hospitality job, kitchen and housekeeping. Uh, the two winters before that, I was up in Dylan doing RE high retail up there. Uh, and then I don't know what's, uh, what's going to happen this winter or if I'm just going to really go full send and like, uh, figuring out this route and trying to get it ready for the next season if anyone's bold enough to attempt it.

[01:00:21] So we'll see, but you know, I'm not, I'm not, uh, I don't have infinite money. Uh, there, the war chest, it does always get lower and lower each time I do one of these through hikes. And so, um, you know, just trying to take advantage of my youth while I have it, um, you know, investing in experience. Yeah. I was going to say like, if you're my, if it's ever occurred to you that like experiences the greater currency than the paper and the coins, you know, like, I don't know if we're getting, we're getting deep here now, I guess, but yeah.

[01:00:51] That occurs to me anyway. Yeah. If you want to get really sociological about it, um, you know, there, once I figured out I'm sitting, I'm sitting down with a sociology, right. You know, then I was like, all right. Yeah. Now that's a brain to pick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, there would be, oh, my, my thesis advisor would be so upset with me right now, but there's a, there's like economic capital, which is, you know, the, the money and then the means of production. And then there would be, um, there'd be social capital, which is that social currency of the connections

[01:01:18] you have, and then there'd be soul or cultural capital, which is the knowledge you have about different cultures or, uh, particular pockets. And so, um, you know, each of those have carry different currencies and some sociologists get a little too literal with the, with the metaphor and say, oh, there's this exchange value between them. Um, but, uh, yeah, you know, I, I saw this article the other day about how, um, uh, millennials and then maybe Gen Zs as well are focusing less and less on retirement and more about just enjoying life.

[01:01:47] I think, I think they're even using the term life maxing. And so, uh, and so, yeah. And so it's not that they aren't saving for retirement. It's just that a little bit more is getting directed towards the here and now. Yeah. Something that's always stayed with me too, is just the very simple concept that like, you know, money is something that you can, that theoretically you can get more of. In theory. And, and, and time is something that you only lose, you know? Yeah. So which one should you value there?

[01:02:14] Well, you have no clue how many people were commenting on, especially on the Facebook side, because it does attract an older audience. Um, you have no clue how many people were commenting on the video saying, I'm too old for this, but I'm really enjoying your hike vicariously. Thank you for letting me follow along in the way that I'm able to. Uh, and so there. I think that a lot of people, um, as they get older and older, they kind of regret the chances they didn't take. Um, and so I'm just trying to take the chances while I can.

[01:02:40] Um, but you know, it's, it's always a balancing act of like, I can't say blow all my money. I'm trying to do, um, some sort of mountaineering expedition. Like I couldn't afford Everest. And if I, and if I went there, I'd be completely destitute. So it's like, uh, so it's, um, a balancing act of like, what can I manage? I bet there's a lot of people listening to this and they're thinking, man, I gotta, I gotta go do something. I gotta get out. Oh yeah. And so that's pretty, that would mission accomplished, right?

[01:03:09] You know, my philosophy to life, um, is really simple. Um, make a list of 101 things you want to do before you die and start taking tangible steps towards doing them. It's pretty straightforward. And so, you know, it's, and it could be this extreme travel. It could be, Oh, one of my bucket list items is I want to build a family, you know? And so then it's like, okay, well, what do I need to do in order to get there? And it's like, okay, well, you know, I need to be a viable dating partner.

[01:03:37] I need to find someone who's healthy and stable that, you know, matches me. Um, and so it can, it can change. And even, you know, everyone it's, everyone always talks about, Oh, what's my Mount Everest? And so say it was that, you know, well, what do you need to do to do that? You need to have the financial means. You need to have the physical means. And so it's just kind of breaking down into tangible steps of like, okay, let's get prepared and actually do it. What's next on the list of 101 for you?

[01:04:01] You know, um, I, uh, I think next year is going to be a lot of kind of refining the great Colorado route, um, with areas where I ran into issues, whether it was, um, areas where I would want it to be on more durable surface, durable surfaces, especially near the cryptobiotic soils out in the Western canyons. Um, but, uh, as for future adventures, um, I would really, really like to do this one on Baffin Island. I, I can't pronounce it right, but it's like actually like past or something, but it's

[01:04:31] a national, um, uh, park and Baffin Island. It goes coast to coast. It's only like 80 miles between the two fjords. Um, but it goes by Thor mountain, which is either the tallest freestanding mountain in the world, like the tallest vertical cliff or in that least in North America. But, uh, it just looks beautiful. Yeah. Uh, and so I would love to do that. Also it, it crosses the Arctic circle. So that'd be kind of a cool experience. Um, but I mean, there's all these fun adventures everywhere. I mean, I would love to go.

[01:05:00] I studied abroad in Morocco when I was an undergrad and I would love to go back and like play around in the mountains there, they're really beautiful. Um, do some more international hiking. Um, and then one Colorado trip I would love to do is I would love to figure out a way to connect four corners to dinosaur national monument. And so just do basically the Utah border up, uh, and maybe like the Colorado desert route or something. I see that. Yeah. But you know, you, you would hit like a Canyon of the ancients national monument,

[01:05:27] the Uncapadre plateau again, Demaree wildlife study area, then Roan plateau. But the Roan plateau was like stupid remote. And I don't know what the water situation there. I don't even think I've heard of that. Yeah. Roan plateau. Roan, R O A N. Yeah. Roan. I don't know how to pronounce, but yeah, it would be fun to do that. Um, or something that's it. I, uh, I don't know. It'd also be nice to hike something that someone else has already proven. So I don't have to worry about that. Maybe like the Heyduke Trail or something over in Utah. Cool, man.

[01:05:56] I really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you. Both getting to listen and getting to take Spencer's chair here to, to chat, man. So I think I am now in a position to where I have to close out this podcast, which I've never done before. So people might have to bear with me as I clunk my way through saying, thank you very much. Donovan Rice for joining us on this show of out there, Colorado. Thank you for having me doing. I'm looking over at Spencer. Yeah, man. Pleasure was ours. Amazing accomplishment.

[01:06:25] And I bet, like I said, a lot of people are feeling, uh, very inspired, including myself. Yeah. So thanks again, Donovan. Get out there and explore. We'll see you next time.