[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00] You are listening to the Enormocast.
[00:00:03] [SPEAKER_08] Hi, this is Dr. Alan Honlove of the Honlove Good Catch Institute with a message of hope and revival for the autumnal equinox. Though the leaves are falling all around, it's time you were on your way to more sending and satisfaction. And we here at the GCI, along with our partners at La Sportiva, are much obliged to help you fill your lungs with the loamy odor of autumn's repose.
[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_08] To feel the crisp rock in the invigorating days. And of course, finally dance your way to the chains of those interminable summer projects. To this end, may we humbly suggest that you float through your fall transit with a new pair of climbing shoes from La Sportiva. You can choose a classic like the TC Pro or Solution. You can please your inner child with a pair of theories or mandalas.
[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_08] And even though Mercury is in retrograde, you can throw caution to the wind and go all in with the all-new Squama light. It's like a Squama, but it's light. No matter how you read the stars, everyone knows that new shoes make a new you. A stronger, happier, better-looking you. That's just science.
[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_08] So go to sportivana.com or your local shop in spring into fall with some new kicks to help you fight against the dying of the light.
[00:01:26] [SPEAKER_01] Listen, where are you playing in town? Are you playing here? We're doing the Normo Dome, whatever it is. It's terrific. Oh yeah, big place that side of town. That's a big place. You sold it out. I'll say, we really should. Look, you better get up there before you panic. Those pens are loose. You're very good. I have really enjoyed having them with you. We'll make it. I don't think so. But we shall continue with style.
[00:02:04] [SPEAKER_01] Now or later, anytime.
[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_00] Today's show is brought to you by La Sportiva,
[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_11] Arcteryx Equipment,
[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_00] and with support from Maxim Ropes. Maxim has been keeping the Enormocast off the deck since 2012.
[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_11] And don't forget our charter sponsor, Bonfire Coffee. Go to bonfirecoffee.com and enter Enorma at checkout for a discount on great coffee and to support the EnormaCast.
[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_00] And now back to the show.
[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_11] Hello and welcome to the EnormaCast. This is your host, Chris Kalous. It is October 29th, 2026, about 8.30 a.m. here in Colorado. And this is a tweener. One of those shows that goes between the regular episodes. And on today's tweener, we have a live recording from the Arcteryx Academy last August, 2026,
[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_11] with myself, my co-host, Ryan Devlin from The Struggle Podcast, and Squamish legends, Paul McSorley and Vicki Weldon. So yeah, Arcteryx puts on this big shindig up in Squamish, BC, every August for 19 years. I guess the 20th anniversary will be next year. We'll see how that goes. I've been going for three years now. Originally, they just invited me up sort of as media.
[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_11] As you know, since then, Arcteryx has become a sponsor of the EnormaCast. I like to say we were kind of flirting during that first Arcteryx Academy. They've also kind of brought me and Ryan Devlin together. We've become friends over the years through podcasting and also just hanging out now. As you know, Ryan was my partner for the 24 Hours of Horseshoe Hell recently. We've done these academies together.
[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_11] He's been on my other show, The Runout, as a commentator on films when we do movie nights. And I've appreciated all the collaboration and the collegiality of that. So yeah, they invited us up there to do some live podcasts. He put out one on his show. And this one was recorded on Friday afternoon during happy hour with two of the nicest people you've ever met. Vicki Weldon was on my live podcast last year along with M Pellerin.
[00:04:27] [SPEAKER_11] We got to know her a little bit better this year. And Paul McSorley, Uncle Paul, as people call him there in Squamish, is a long time developer and just supporter of the scene in Squamish. Live podcasts are a little bit tricky. It's hard to go as deep as we go in the sit downs we get here on the EnormaCast. That's why I throw them out as tweeners. Keep it light, have some fun, have some good laughs. And I think we accomplished all of that here.
[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_11] Both Vicki and Paul deserve the full treatment here on the EnormaCast. And hopefully I can get those done sometime in 2027. As 2026 is almost up. And two last things here. I want to thank the crowd for showing up. Looked a little touch and go at first. Early evening, late afternoon. People are still out climbing at the clinics, but it filled in and it was a really awesome crowd. Thanks for showing up, people. And finally, thanks to Arcteryx for bringing us up there. Putting on the event.
[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_11] Trusting us with those microphones. And remember, here at the EnormaCast, every single episode I've ever put out is free. Not behind a paywall. Not a single bonus episode. Anything is behind a paywall at the EnormaCast. It's all there. Although sometimes the links break. People tell me that shows don't play, but I fix that usually. Or at least the second time someone tells me I fix it. Anyhow, it's all out there free because of the sponsors.
[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_11] Of course, not just Arcteryx, but Sportiva, Maxim, Bonfire Coffee. A few others come and go. But just consider supporting those sponsors because they support the show. And they all make great stuff too. So it's easy. Okay, let's get to it. A rebroadcast of a live event at the Arcteryx Academy with Ryan Devlin, Vicki Weldon, and Paul McSorley.
[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_07] Forever is a long time. I mean, I've been on cold, miserable belays that felt like forever. Sat out bad weather that seemed an eternity as the date for your flight loomed closer and closer. And your dream line sat just as unclimbed as when you first showed up with stars in your eyes and the hopes and dreams of a freshly minted weanling. Of course, everyone wants their gear to last forever.
[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_07] I mean, for the first 30 years of my life, my kit was the biggest investment I had. And while forever is an awful lot to ask, the new Arcteryx Spiro SV jacket is about as close as you're gonna damn well get in a piece of forever gear. Made primarily from recycled and recyclable materials, the Spiro SV is reinforced in all the right places and engineered to be more easily repaired for its lifetime by Arcteryx's venerable re-bird program.
[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_07] But above all, the Spiro SV performs for Alpine missions, backcountry romps, or any time the weather looms dark in your psyche like a nightmare you can't wake up from. So go to Arcteryx.com or a reputable gear shop to check out the Spiro SV jacket and gear up for when the weather isn't just part of the scenery, it's the crux.
[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_10] All right, Arcteryx Pavilion, we're gonna start this show in just a second.
[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_09] But first, I want to recognize the first two people that came in and sat down. It takes a lot of courage to be the first two people to sit down in a whole...
[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_12] Yes, we've been watching you.
[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_09] We've been watching these two right here. I even took a picture of them. Not with my phone, that'd be creepy. With their phone, I took it for them. Not of them, but for them. But because you two were the first two to sit down here for our live show with myself and Chris Kalous, you each get a brand spanking new Lithos harness from Arcteryx. Let's go! Come on up here, you two. Thank you. Thank you.
[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_12] Early adopters. Early adopters. That's how you win.
[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_09] I mean, we're just gonna have to guess on the sizing here, guys. What's your name? You took a clinic from Chris Kloos back in 2012? Maybe 2016. Yes. And you're still alive and injury-free?
[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_03] Yes.
[00:08:46] [SPEAKER_09] So far, so good. Way to go, Chris. Thanks. Okay, guys. Grab your Lithos harness. I've got one of these harnesses. I've been climbing it for months. It's absolutely fantastic. It's super lightweight and super comfortable. These are smallest to largest over here. And if you mess up, they'll exchange it for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can exchange it for you. So these are smallest to largest. Largest are way over.
[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_12] Okay, Vicky said you're 1A and you're... What do you think? What? 3A, she thinks.
[00:09:14] 3A?
[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_12] That's what she thinks. And she's... Yeah. Yeah. And you can switch them out.
[00:09:19] Please.
[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_12] Welcome, everybody. Thanks for coming in and sitting down. There will be some more harnesses, you know, at our whim. We're drunk with power. Exactly. And alcohol. And alcohol. Not quite, yeah. But it is happy hour, so feel free to get a drink or something like that. My name is Chris Kalous. As I said, I run a podcast, a long-standing, so long-standing podcast called The Enormalcast. Thank you very much.
[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_12] My compadre here, Ryan Devlin, is a newer podcaster but has a really strong show called The Struggle.
[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_10] Thank you. Yeah.
[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_12] And I want... Before we get started with our guests, I kind of wanted to talk about our relationship, our love affair that we started kind of here at the Academy last year. It was really where we kind of, like, bonded. And we've been sort of... We've got all these things coming up. We've been... We're gonna do this. We're gonna do another one tomorrow. We're gonna go to 24 Hours of Horseshoe Hell together. We got, like, the start of a buddy movie going on right here.
[00:10:31] [SPEAKER_09] The Arterics Academy really brought us together. You know, it's like relationships that are formed under extreme circumstances. Like, those create the tightest bonds. And for whatever reason, you and I... We tied in together last year. We climbed a route out on the apron called... Rock On! Rock On! And, uh...
[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_12] Well, that was like our sixth choice. Yeah. But it turned out to be really good. Everything else had, like, a really big line. Yeah, so we just kept going up that gully till there was, like, four parties inside of us instead of, like, 12.
[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_09] But then, like, you tie in with somebody and you spend the day with them. And all of a sudden, you just kind of know them on a different level. You know, when you get to climb together and, like, have that experience. And, yeah, it really brought us... We could have been rival podcasters, you and I. We could have chose that.
[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_12] We could have chose to be rivals. It's been done. It's out there in the world. But, um, but yeah, we decided to, to, to, to collaborate.
[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_09] Yeah. And here we are again for now our second Arcteryx together. You've been coming here for a while.
[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_12] No, this is my third. This is your third. My first one was a dud, though. I'll tell you that right now. I came with this giant knee infection, actually. I remember that. Yeah, I remember? I could barely fit my pants on. And then it rained the whole time if you were here three times. Which was fine with me. Like, if I can't have any fun, then nobody gets to have any fun.
[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_09] Was anybody here three years ago when Chris had his really disgusting knee injury? No, no one saw it. I wasn't like showing it to people. Nobody. Yeah. Our friends over here. They might be stalking you. She took your clinic and then she... I've got some pictures of it probably if you want. But, but yeah, we had such a great time last year and Chris, you did a fantastic job hosting. And so here we are again. And this morning we got out and we rock climbed again together. And we went, again, we, we went up to climb a different route, but it was, there was a lot of people on that.
[00:12:22] [SPEAKER_09] So we climbed a route called long time. No see. Is that what it's called? I think so. I kept forgetting. Cause it was our second choice. We just, yeah. And we had a lot of fun. And who else, who else got out climbing today? Anybody get out climbing today? Let's see some hands. We got one person got out climbing today.
[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_12] Three. Something like two or three. You get a harness. Okay.
[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_09] Do you want a harness? She does. You already got a harness? Oh. Do you want a harness? Come up here and get your harness.
[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_12] Participation people. That's what you can, it's take hold of that. They would have had to lie if they didn't actually go climbing. Well, let me ask you this while they're, while you're dealing with the weather coming up here. Vicky, you want to make a suggestion on his size?
[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_09] It's a 3B. So the lithos harness, if you don't know, it's new and it's not just like small, medium and large. You actually have a variety of different sizes that you will measure the length and the width of your leg and then the harness size. And so you, we've got Vicky here that we're going to introduce in just a second. But right now she's just doing the carnival like guessing of the harness size. We're putting her to work up here. She's our esteemed guest and we're like having her size up people's thigh circumferences.
[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_09] Let me, let me give a, but that's how like the harness is incredibly comfortable because you customize it to your exact dimensions. So, hey, congratulations on your new lithos harness.
[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_12] So we're going to be talking about like Squamish and how it relates to these guys, their lives, their climbing. But I wanted to ask you that yourself. Was last year the first time you've ever been here?
[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_09] Last time was, yeah. Last year was my first time to Squamish and it blew my mind how beautiful this place is and how good the donuts are. Are we here to talk about donuts are climbing because the donuts are really good. The donuts, yeah. And just the accessibility, the incredible rock. And last year my goal was to try to do like a little bit of everything. So I did multi-pitch day, a bouldering day, a single pitch sport day and a single pitch trad day. And I just kind of sampled just a little bit of everything and I had the absolute best time. When did you first come to Squamish?
[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_12] I came here like five years ago with my wife. The first time we were away from our kiddo for the, for like an extended period after he had been born, he was like five or something, four. Yeah. And then do you know what happened? I made a complaint and I still hear about my complaint. You made a complaint. Cause I'm a light and dark.
[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_09] Just Squamish?
[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_12] Yeah. About Squamish. Does anybody remember what it was?
[00:14:47] Traffic noise.
[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_12] Yeah, it was. Traffic noise. You get a harness. Who answered that? No, he's, he doesn't get a harness. Oh, you don't get a harness. Sorry. He doesn't get one. We don't like that. All right. You get a beer later though. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, it's really loud here.
[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_09] You guys, by the way, Chris used to live in Los Angeles. I know. As well.
[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_12] So that's the, they were building this bridge. They were like building, like rebuilding a bridge right below. And yeah. And pile driving, like bowel shaking to, to quote a cake. Um, yeah, it was like pretty intense. And we're like, does anyone else hear this? And we went in the shop and we're like, they're like, how's your trip? And we're like, it's great. We love the climbing, but like, it's kind of loud. Don't you think they're like, no, I don't know what you're talking about. Anyway, but I do love it.
[00:15:37] [SPEAKER_12] But I, you know, I was, I always want to balance, balance the good with the bad. Well, I do things.
[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_09] Yeah. I mean, there's, there's so much good, but you do have a way of finding a little bit of bad to, to bring it to what I do, man. We'll be crying up here later. Don't worry about it. No, it's good. Let's bring in, let's bring in a couple, uh, very good human beings into this conversation to really balance out the, uh, relationship snark that you and I have going on this couch. Uh, and that's with Vicki Weldon and Paul McSorley, local legends. Let's give it up for Vicki and Paul y'all. So excited to talk to you guys.
[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_09] We should, we should start, um, where, where Chris and I started your, your first time here to Squamish, I think. Do you remember?
[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_05] Well, Paul, Paul's here first.
[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_09] So you all are both Canadians, right? But not of, of Squamish, not even of British Columbia. Is that correct? Transplants. Transplants. Okay. So Vicki, let's start with you. When, when were you first here?
[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_06] My first trip to Squamish, I would have been 14, maybe I was, I would come up to North Vancouver for climbing competitions.
[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_09] You were a youth crusher, multiple, multiple youth championships. Is that right?
[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_06] Yes. Yeah. Very few people in my category.
[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_09] That's tactics Vicki. Yeah. That's just, that's just smart.
[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_06] Took them all out before they started.
[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_09] So you were 14, you came in here.
[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_06] I think I was 14 and I remember bouldering in the Granwell Boulders. That was my like only memory. So, but it come and then I took a trip up here when I was like 16 with my little brother and my mom during spring break, which is like March when it rains. So we just climbed in the bouldered in the rain. So just a short trip says like a younger kid. And then I moved to move to Vancouver when I was about 19 and then started coming up here more regularly.
[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_09] That's great. Do you, do you remember the first time you did a multi pitch in Squamish?
[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_06] No. All right.
[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_12] That's good podcasting right there. Make me some Vicki.
[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_06] I'm trying to remember what my very first multi pitch and looking at my husband, cause maybe he'll remember.
[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_12] Would it have been here? No, it would have been in the Rockies.
[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_06] No, it would have been the Rockies. Yeah. One of my first multi pitches actually with our sweet late Will Stanhope. He took me up a route on a Yamnuska called the bowl and he led every pitch and I followed and he apparently was scared shitless and I had a great time. That's great.
[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_09] Well, we'll give you time to think about your first multi pitch in Squamish while we kick it over to Paul. And Paul, let's hear about your first time here to Squamish.
[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I came here first year about 1991 or 92. I was living in the Canadian Rockies. I was a teenager still. And I remember the first pitch I ever did. It was called Fata Morgana in the Smoke Bluffs. Super obscure. Anybody ever done Fata Morgana? It's pretty forgettable.
[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_09] You could lie and get a harness. No, too late.
[00:18:52] [SPEAKER_02] But yeah, we did the buttress that summer and it was, uh, it was pretty special.
[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_09] You were in your teens. Did you say?
[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_02] I was like 19. Yeah. 18, 19.
[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_09] What was the vibe in Squamish like at that time? I mean, like what was the town like? What was the climbing scene like?
[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_02] The town was rugged. I was living, I had a partner, but he had to split. So I lived alone in the boulders, the base of the chief. And the chief wasn't a provincial park yet. It didn't become a park until 1995 when the climbers kind of rallied to stop it getting logged. And I was living there. There must have been other climbers, but I didn't see them. I saw one other team for like a month here. It was kind of crazy. Yeah. Nobody home. And the town was really rough. Like, and then on the weekends, the local ruffians would come into the boulders and you'd have to like run because they were looking for a fight.
[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_02] Really? So scary. Squamish was a rough town. It was a logging town. Right. And climbers weren't a thing. Like it wasn't, there weren't a lot of resident climbers. I can't say for sure, but I bet way less than 50.
[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_09] Wow. Did you ever get into fights with the local ruffians, Paul?
[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_02] Not a chance. No, I would run. I was like, it was just stressful. They'd be out. You could hear them drunk and they'd pull their pickup trucks up and you could hear the beer bottles smashing. And I was bivied in the boulders and had to run. Well, as a surprise, we have some of the local ruffians here today.
[00:20:09] [SPEAKER_12] Bring them out. Let's bring those ruffians up.
[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_02] Long lost. I've been looking for you for 30 years.
[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_09] Has anybody out here ever threatened Paul in the boulders? This is for harness. Okay, good. Bring it. Is it anyone here's first time to Squamish? We got a first timer back there? You get a harness. You got your first timer too? You get a harness. Yeah. Lethose harnesses for our two first time Squamish people. Come on up here while Chris continues the conversation. Well, hold on actually. Vicki needs to size up the harness sizes here.
[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_09] 3A. Okay. Find it over here probably. All right, let's talk. Okay, we can we can chat because this isn't going to play on the podcast. That's okay.
[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_12] We'll edit it out. What about the first time you decided like this is your place? Like this is if not home, like I am vibing with this place, not just visiting. Why don't you do that one Vicki?
[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_06] I tried to make Squamish my home and failed miserably. Couldn't get a job when I was.
[00:21:19] [SPEAKER_12] Had you tried work as a ruffian?
[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_06] I had already tried that. Chase Paul out of Boulder a few times. But that was kind of like just before I started nursing school. So as I moved back to Vancouver, did that instead. And then my now husband Tom and I, we just been coming up so much. You're like weekend warriors camping in the chief parking lot when you're allowed to do that.
[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_06] So we always kind of felt like after I was finished my pro my nursing degree that we would try and like make it work up here. So that's what we did. We moved here in 2013. But yeah, I was like I wanted it to be home for a lot long like way before that. Although when we moved here is pouring rain and hated it for a long time actually.
[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_06] Because we had just finished a big road trip and we had come from Canmore, Alberta, which is near my hometown of Calgary. And it had been an amazing summer and I just wanted to stay there. And then we moved to Squamish and it was like this is a mistake. This is a mistake. This is a huge mistake. Apocalyptic rain. And I was like, what are we doing? But we stuck it out and it's worth it.
[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_12] So, Paul, you were a Rockies guy, but you were from Ontario, right? Yeah, originally Toronto. Okay. Okay. So and actually, it's interesting because I have a history in the Rockies, which I like to point out at every chance I get. Especially if I'm in Canada. When I was there, like people were like, have you ever climbed in Squamish? I'm like, no. They're like, why are you here? Or have you ever climbed in the Bugaboos? I'm like, no. They're like, why are you here?
[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_12] But you obviously transplanted at some point. So let's talk about that.
[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I lived in the Rockies for like 10 years and we'd come in road trip here, but it always rained. And it was really loud and there was a lot of like smoke from the pulp mill. So it stunk. The town stunk. And coming from the Rockies, which is like a national park and it's beautiful and chill. I lived in Banff and it's real wilderness besides a little town. Here was like super urban and every weekend there was a Whistler crowd. Nobody stopped in Squamish. It was just Whistler and traffic.
[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_02] But I was climbing at the lake one day and I met a girl. And the next day I jumped into her van and drove to the coast and I never went back. Stayed in Squamish.
[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_09] Wow. That's just like me and Chris's love story. It is. It's very similar. It's very, it's very, it's electric. I could feel the electricity. When was this Paul?
[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_02] It was around the new millennium, like 2000. I don't know exactly.
[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_09] Can we talk about, cause I want to bring things current in just a bit here to really talk about kind of where the scene is and where you all think the climbing scene development's going. But it, it does seem like, I mean, obviously your first time out here, it was really rugged at what, what was it like kind of in the early two thousands, 2010s, like when, when you were coming out, Vicki and Paul, when you first came out here, uh, it seems like there was still a lot that hadn't been developed and where, you know, kind of where, where was climbing at.
[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_09] And did, did you all get to work right away exploring new areas and putting up routes? Uh, Paul, I think you did.
[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I did. I definitely did like a new route, like one of my early trips here. Vicki had a job. Right. Some of us were employed. Thank you. Thank you. Nurses everywhere. Yeah, exactly. I was a total dirt bag.
[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_12] She's just saving lives. No big deal.
[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_02] There's a film about it. But yeah, I got right into it. I was psyched and I couldn't believe it. I was, I went out and did a route near the very popular now, uh, welcome to Squamish. Is that what it's called? Welcome to Squamish? No. Spirit of Squamish. It was right beside there in Shannon Falls Park. And we put up a route and there was a lot of offensive route names. And so we named our route offensively and, uh, it's called dirty dicky. But anyway, I just was psyched to clean the cracks and like nobody cared. Semi-offensive.
[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_02] But yeah, nobody cared if you like put up a route and I talked to the local guys at the shop and they were like, yeah, do whatever you want here. Like just have at it. And, uh, that kind of spoke to me.
[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_09] More so than trying to repeat the classics or were you, you were doing everything at the same time?
[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. I just do a little bit of everything. I mean, all the super classics had been climbed by the late eighties, like all the Northern Lights and Grand Wall almost free. I think Scott Cosgrove freed it in the nineties, late nineties, probably maybe new millennium. But either way, all the big, big routes, you wall freeway, all that, all those super classics had been done. But man, it just has been a heyday for the last 25 years for new routing.
[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_12] Yeah. Cause it goes way beyond just like what we're looking at here. It just feels like you walk and walk and there's just more and more. Yeah. There's whole zones in the back valleys and was paradise in area when you came out here?
[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_02] No, not at all. Not even bouldering. Bouldering was barely a thing. Like until Chris Sharma's film, rampage, whatever year that was in the nineties. At some point, nobody was bouldering here, but the mayor of Squamish thought there was a homeless problem when all the boulders came the year after rampage. Came out. She was like, why is there all these people with the beds on their back? Like what's going on? Like they didn't, there was no climbing culture here. Like there was no consciousness of climbing, barely any cafes and you know, nowhere to eat. And it wasn't a scene until the pad people showed up.
[00:26:36] [SPEAKER_09] The pad people. The pad people. That's great. So I would love to hear about if we could just some of your favorite climbing experiences here in Squamish. It can be recent. It can be, you know, decades past, but. I've only just been able to sample a little bit of it myself. And I just find it so beautiful and magical. And personally coming from the Red River Gorge where it's sandstone and it's overhung and everything's a jug. I find it very challenging and quite scary. I was very scared.
[00:27:06] [SPEAKER_09] I wore this shirt today when Chris and I were out. This is a sun shirt from Arcteryx. And I'm just like acutely aware right now that I can smell the fear sweat in me still from leading a couple of those pitches today. So I'm curious what stands out and whether these are like really beautiful, wonderful experiences you had or just like epic kind of nightmares. What comes to mind on notable routes here in Squamish? Vicki, we can start with you. She's clearly got a lot on her mind.
[00:27:36] [SPEAKER_06] Well, when I moved to Squamish, I was not a trad climber. If you don't really try, I mean, you try climbing the Rockies is a different vibe. And I never really. How so? It was not very fun. Not really.
[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_12] Just kidding. No, if there's a crack, the rock's not that good.
[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_06] It's like much different. It's more like survival climbing versus like enjoyable. It's, I mean, people could disagree with me, but, um,
[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_12] I have to disagree with you, but it's, and I, I wasn't a track climber.
[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_06] I didn't try climbing the Rockies. My, like, I maybe had dabbled a little bit, but I, when we moved out here as predominantly a sport climber and a boulder. And that's what I was really keen on. And then we, I started try climbing a little bit more because it's so amazing here. And, uh, one of my earliest memories of is a route I'm actually looking at right now. It's called right wing. My, uh, Tom and I, we, uh, had an epic epic on that thing.
[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_06] It wasn't very fun.
[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_12] Carry on.
[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_06] Well, we just, they just like a little bit, like we are still pretty new. It's got this like one, you can link this one long, it's called the filibuster pitch all in one. And, um, Tom, Tom attempted to and ran out of gear and he was lowering down getting gear. And I still was so fresh that I was pretty wigged out. And it was my turn to lead the next pitch. And I just completely lost my mind and down we went and I feel never have climbed it again.
[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_09] So never topped it out and never went back.
[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_06] No, I should, I should, it's supposed to be quite good.
[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_09] Maybe this weekend is your weekend, Vicki.
[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_06] It's supposed to rain.
[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_12] If you do it, we'll give you a harness.
[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_06] Might need to be a little bit more enticing that no, no, no. It's just funny. Cause like it's, it's for sure. It's a classic route. Of course I want to go back. Cause there's just so much, right? There's just so much here. I get, I have a, you know, a touch of the ADD. Hence why my, I work well in an emergency department, but I just love, I just bounce around to everything. If I don't, if I lose psych on one form of climbing, I can, I can shift to another. And Squamish has like all the different types of rock climbing. And that's why it's so awesome.
[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_09] I love that story. Okay. More, more on that. I, we're going to, we're going to circle back to that one. Uh, but, but Paul, how about for you? That bought you a little bit of time, notable experience on a route, good or bad here in Squamish?
[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_02] I just never forget my first lap up the grand wall. It's like the classic Squamish route. And, uh, kind of Ryan to your point about fear, it's got a bit of everything. It's got some slabby bits and some wide bits and a bit of, I'm super pumpy. Just get super gunned up there. I don't even remember. It would have been on, I was still living in the Rockies. I would have come out on a road trip and I was kind of like prepped for it. I was psyched. I waited until I was good enough, you know, to, to do it and send it except for the bolt ladder. But, uh, you know, it's for real up there.
[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_02] If you're a newer, you know, granite climber and, uh, yeah, just super memorable, legendary climber from Squamish called Scott Flavell, who put up a number of amazing routes here. Um, he's always said like slabs and off widths. That's the business. Like if you can do those, you can get anything done in the mountains, right? Anybody can call him a hand cracker, finger crack, but slabs and off widths. And there's a bit of everything on the ground wall. So, uh, a lot of people get paddled on them.
[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_09] For those who aren't familiar with the, with the route, can you just break it down for us?
[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. It's like, starts off with a super burly kind of power lay back insecure. No, no gear. Is that called the apron strings? Is that right? It's like, there's no gear. You got no, just in tricky gear, hard to place. Cause you're pumped super pumpy. The first pitch is pumpy. Then a cruisy little splitter pitch and then slabs like your first bolts, like 50 feet up. It's easy as five, eight or whatever, five, seven, but it's like super run out to the first clip. And then you surf this big pitch and then you do a funky traverse that I think used to be aided.
[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_02] But, uh, and then you do pull up a couple, a little bolt ladder and then, um, and then you get into the split pillar, which is the most mythical pitch in Squamish. It's like fingers to like bigger than fists and people end up lay backing at the end. You just got to go for it and people get pumped. It's only 10 B, but it's kind of like a Yosemite 10 B. People think it's a little soft here in Squamish, which kind of is, but it's a real pitch. And then you got the sword, which is amazing, like boulder problem fingers.
[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_02] And then you get a bolt ladder and then you get Perry's lay back, which is a super enduro, like wide crack. You just power lay back and I'm thought and then the flats slabby and then the sail flake, which is another amazing enduro pitch. And then you're on a belly good ledge. And, uh, if you want to keep going, you can go up the Roman chimneys, which just adds more bang for your buck.
[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_09] And you got it your first time on it.
[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_02] I did. I was psyched. I mean, you're pulling on a couple of bolt ladders, but it's like, that was the grand, how it was back in there. I don't think Scott had freed it yet. I remember him and Annie Overland, I think made the first free ascent back in the day.
[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_09] Scott, Southern California guy.
[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Yeah. They came up in freedom. Pretty sure it was cause.
[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_09] How many times have you done that now? Do you think?
[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_02] I don't know. I feel like we used to guide it and I bet at least 50, maybe more. We just be used to be your nice, like early season fitness lab. And then you go do a bunch of times.
[00:32:50] [SPEAKER_09] And has anybody else done 50 laps on the grand while you get a harness, you get a harness. Yes. Nope. Okay. The harness is safe. The harness is secure for another giveaway.
[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_06] I got peed on the top of the slip pillar.
[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_09] Oh, you get a harness. Yeah.
[00:33:04] [SPEAKER_06] So I was climbing up the slip pillar and this girl was peeing cause like there's like, she didn't know you should pee off, off the wall. She peed down the crack and I was climbing the crack through.
[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_09] Oh no.
[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_06] But I do have a friend who got to climb through poo. You remember Hannah Preston had to climb through poop.
[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_02] It's been some notorious poo incidents up there.
[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_06] Yes.
[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_02] It's not as bad as the Valley, but it's for sure when, you know, especially these days with Facebook groups, people like let you know all about the poo.
[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_09] You know, last year out at the Arterics Academy here, I shot a video with Amity Warm where we set up a portal edge and she taught me how to poop on a portal edge. So for anybody who's interested in how to poop on a portal edge, you can check out my YouTube for that. But there's a real skill that goes into it. But A and B, it keeps you from then pooping on people who are climbing below you, which I think is a pretty important ethic when it comes to rock.
[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_06] Absolutely.
[00:34:02] [SPEAKER_09] I'm so sorry you got peed on. Yeah, that's.
[00:34:05] [SPEAKER_06] It was memorable.
[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_09] Didn't come off the pitch though. It sounds like.
[00:34:09] No.
[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_06] Luckily I was following it, but I probably would have. It was awful. I was, it was active really raining on you.
[00:34:16] [SPEAKER_09] It sounds like she was well hydrated. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There's a volume of pee. Vicki, do you have a sense for how many times you've climbed that route?
[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_06] Not that many. Not 50. Probably like four or five times. Not. Yeah. I'm still a sport climber.
[00:34:34] [SPEAKER_09] Well, I'd love to talk about kind of current now and what you guys are hyped on in the Squamish scene and climbing and areas of development, maybe little hidden gems. What have you, where have you all been spending time? Paul, we can start with you. Where do you spend time? Have you climbed everything out here just in the back? No, no.
[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_02] I've got heaps of projects and we just actually went up on this route the other day that was an old obscure route and I'm super psyched to just explore the old lines here. And there's lots more to do. I've been developing a lot of bolted crags lately and even like a happy fun family crag for like the every person, the new climber, which we have a huge need for. Um, cause there's so many new climbers now. It's like a full on need for easy climbing.
[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_09] I'd love to talk about that for a second, actually. Like what, what do those routes look like in terms of just style and difficulty?
[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Well, even that zone you guys are at today, the apron, it's one of the reasons why Squamish is so sick. Cause if you're a new trad climber and you want to climb a multi pitch, like five, seven, we got tons of them and uh, it's great. So like in the valley, what are you going to warm? What are you going to do? Five, seven. That's 10 pitches long.
[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_09] You know, nutcracker. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_02] But yeah, but we got tons of that stuff. And then for cragging all the most popular cliffs are all these super modern. It's not true, but there's a lot of really popular, like easy and moderate, well-equipped or trad crags. And uh, what's that?
[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_09] What's the crag that you're talking about that you're developing?
[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_02] Oh, it's just a new crag. I developed this winter. It was like my therapy crag. Uh, cause winters are dark here, dark time. But uh, yeah, it's just, I just bolted this like small cliff. There's a dozen routes there from five, six to 11 a or B or something and all bolted and lots of, lots of mellow stuff for new climbers. You did the whole thing. I sure did. I had a couple.
[00:36:22] [SPEAKER_09] Can we give it up for Paul for bolting an entire crack?
[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_02] I did have a couple of buds come out, but everybody just tell you guys, I'm looking at some of you here specifically. You're like, Hey, I'll come and help you scrub. But nobody does.
[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_09] Nobody shows up.
[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_02] We got a clean hard here. It's not like the red. It's not like Utah or California. Like we have to clean moss off of the cliffs and it's like kills your elbows. Does not make you a better climber.
[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_09] Hmm. Thank you for putting that work in for us. Really, truly, truly, really appreciate that.
[00:36:49] [SPEAKER_02] Vicki and I did a sick new route together. What's the route? You want to hear that story? You tell them. It wasn't in Squamish, but we trained in Squamish. Was this in Morocco?
[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_06] It's true. We did train in Squamish. That's right.
[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_02] We trained in... Yes.
[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_06] In the smoke bluffs, I learned how to aid climb. You trained in the smoke bluffs for Morocco? For one afternoon.
[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_09] Check you guys out. Yeah. Tell us about that. That FA. I read about it a bit. Tell us about it, Vicki.
[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_06] I think I was like new on the Arc'teryx team and I had like this like exciting new travel budget and I didn't really know what to do with it. And Paul and I had recently become friends and I was like wondering if you want to do a trip with me and Paul always has ideas. So we went to the Rift Valley. No. Yeah. The Rift Mountains. The Actour Valley in Morocco, which is like northern Morocco. And put up this sport climb and it was awesome.
[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_06] I like did my first bolted like on lead bolting adventure. I think it took me multiple, multiple, multiple hours. And it was insane. I had like the most insane like forearm cramps at the end of it. I was like placing... I was aid climbing. It was wild. It was really cool. And we put up some sandbagged 512. It was awesome.
[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_02] Vicki learned to skyhawk for like drilling on the lead right here in the smoke bluffs and then we took it there. And she had the... She was the boss of the climb because the last pitch I pumped out on it was like this super overhanging two-foot thing. It was like whatever, 10 pitches long or something. And last pitch I couldn't do it. And Vicki stepped up and bossed it. The whole thing's bolted? 10 pitches bolted? Yeah. Sport climb. That's a lot of work.
[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah, it was a lot of work. Yeah, we... And we were hungry. There's not a lot of like available food for purchase in that area. So we were hungry.
[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_09] What kind of rock is out there?
[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_02] It's limestone. Limestone. Like Verdun quality limestone. And there's monkeys and that's where they grow the hash too.
[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_09] Well, we were just talking to Jordan Canyon yesterday and he was thinking he might want to get out. He was saying he might want to get out to Morocco in the next year or so. It sounds like a pretty cool scene. He could just train at the smoke bluffs for it, it sounds like.
[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_06] All you need is an afternoon right by neat and cool to learn how to place a few pieces of aid and you're good. It's fine.
[00:39:02] [SPEAKER_12] Nice. So there's like a transition in most people's climbing as we get older where you're like living for yourself and you're like, you know, it's all about your goals and what you want to do next and what you want to do next. And then I feel like it's, it kind of switches into like a community vibe and a little bit of a stewardship vibe. And I know, you know, both of you are somewhat looked up to in the community as like, you
[00:39:28] [SPEAKER_12] know, providing kind of that sort of basis of like, well, they've been here a long time. They've always been a big part of the community. It's, you know, thinking about your, your new Craig, Paul, that you put together for, you know, not necessarily for yourself. It's for, it's for everybody and for other people. The park too, I think was the push to make it a provincial park came from the climbers as well, I believe. Um, so can you talk a little bit about that? Like the transition of your own lives to like, I'm just here to, you know, send my projects
[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_12] to, I'm here to like be part of the community. You know what?
[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_02] It's funny that you say that. Cause it's, it's cool. Well, it's, it's hard actually to see that cause most people come here, they're on their vacation or whatever. They're here to send, they've seen the video on YouTube. They're just like, I'm here for this and it's great, you know, like good for them. Um, but yeah, eventually you just want to like stoke the crowd and, and do give something back. Cause it's, yeah, you get tired of just doing things for yourself. And, uh, but I do want to say on that note, it's super cool.
[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_02] You know, when I was coming up, I don't know about Vicki and the Rockies, but people were not nice to the young climbers. They were just like, unless you, it was a meritocracy as we all know. So if you weren't a sender, nobody wanted to hang with you. And, uh, and nowadays we've got so many cool young climbers in the zone and they're all crushers too, but, but it's just Squamish has always had that vibe more so than any other zone I've visited. It's just like people are into like, you know, sharing the love and it's really cool here. It's like almost unique in the world.
[00:40:58] [SPEAKER_02] There's none of this, like, uh, you're a newbie or whatever. It's pretty sweet.
[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah, I do agree with Paul. I think like, I mean, you know, my two main experiences are like the Rockies community and the Squamish community. I definitely feel like the Squamish community is a lot more welcoming, a lot more just psyched and people are, I mean, it's, it's intense here. People will say it, it feels like a rat race some days. Everyone's like hyped and like high, high achieving, high performing, but there's also is this cool community of like, it's like, yeah, come on out. Like everyone can come and climb here. So it's, it is cool.
[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_06] I mean, I, I'm not a root developer. I just want to be very clear on that. I have put up a handful of roots. I have put up one root in Squamish and no one climbs it. It's in paradise Valley. It's on the far, far, far, far, far, far right of the main wall. It's called a tiger tiger in the woods. Cause I found a golf ball in the middle of the crack, like 20 feet up from like a raven or something dropped it down. No one climbs it. It's fine.
[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_06] But, uh, I do feel like I like to be more involved in other ways. Like I'm, I run a women's climbing program and try and get like more people psyched on climbing in that way. More like experiential things versus like, you know, I, I just, you know, Paul and others who are so good at like creating these climbs for others. And I'm so grateful because I recognize how much work it is. And I realized that, you know, it's just, it's not my jam all the time. I'm, I am a bit selfish.
[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_06] I do just want to go rock climbing. Um, but yeah, so others, other ways I think that you can create community and create, um, this positive environment that Squamish, I do believe in bodies, even though it's getting busier and busier.
[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_09] Well, you know, uh, Chris brought up a point kind of about the trajectory of one's climbing life, if you will. And for a while we can continue to try to like really push our performance, our top end grade, or like the scariest, gnarliest, you know, most epic things we can do. And at some point in time, we start to typically climb more for enjoyment or experience or fitness. Many of us make that transition.
[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_09] Some continue to try to push themselves, you know, really hard and find like, what's, what's the, the, the edge for me right now. And can I push it up there? And I'd love to hear from, you know, the two of you, where you are with that. When you look at like a year of climbing, how much of it is like performance based, trying to push yourself to do the hardest things ever, uh, versus enjoyment, you know, just kind of a type one fun, if you will. I guess having kids comes into the mix somewhere in there as well, Vicki.
[00:43:41] [SPEAKER_09] Uh, Paul, we can start with you though.
[00:43:43] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. You know, I just never was into climbing for the difficulty. I was kind of more of the Peter Croft school who was an old, old time climber here and kind of one of my early heroes, if you will. He wouldn't take that as a, you know, a thing. He wasn't, he's super humble, but, uh, I remember reading something that he said in an old Canadian geographic, he, he didn't get it. Like these people in their athletic clothing, you know, climbing mountains. He, he was kind of like wanting to see the adventure in it. And that's all I, that's all I climb for.
[00:44:12] [SPEAKER_02] Definitely not difficulty. Admire people who dedicate to training and, uh, but I'm going on an adventure and yeah, it's just, uh, that's how I like, that's why climbing so sweet. You can do whatever you want, but I wouldn't have it any other way.
[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_06] So Paul trains.
[00:44:28] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.
[00:44:29] [SPEAKER_12] Oh, ouch.
[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_02] No, no, no. For sure.
[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_06] Paul's been training. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_02] I know in my old age and I'm, I'm like going to the gym so I don't like lose my muscle mass or whatever. Cause I'm 50. So I'm old and apparently got to like lift weights, which I'm doing, got a coach, represent Joel, wherever you are.
[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_09] So, so, so you're going hard. I'm not trying to get better. I just want to stay. Now you're going at 50. You're saying I'm going for performance climbing.
[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_02] That turns out partying and you know, like a unhealthy habits doesn't make you a better climber. No worked for like a long time.
[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_09] Yeah. I'm with you. Yeah. Yeah. And Vicki, uh, on the kind of the other side of that coin, obviously you started your career with performance climbing, being heavily into competition scene. Talk to us about where you're at now. What inspires you, uh, in the climbing experience?
[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_06] Yeah. I mean, like you mentioned kids, I have a kid and I'm having another one and it's crazy and it's definitely interrupts things. Um, so I'm, you know, learning, learning to embrace the topsy turvy nature of parenthood and how that is. But I've, I've, yeah, I've always been a performance rock climber. If, if you can call, I don't know if I'm quite there, but, um, I do like, uh, goals and I like specific goals.
[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_06] And so that often drives me if I don't have like a project in mind, I'm often a little aimless. Um, and I have been in the last years just with like having a young kid and, but yeah, I mean this winter I also got a coach, same one as Paul's very exciting. Same coach, same coach, team coach. It's great. Um, and that's very motivating. I haven't been coached properly since I was a teenager.
[00:46:14] [SPEAKER_06] Um, so that was very motivating and I got pretty psyched on some like projects early in the spring. And so I still, I still am really motivated by that, by goals, by specific goals. And it doesn't always have to be like a specific one specific route. Like last year I did my full rock exam and that had been a really big goal of mine. And so just becoming more of like a, well, I like being a well-rounded climber because I like having the option to do different types of climbing and be, and be good at it.
[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_06] So I want to, you know, I'm, I'm, I want to be good at bouldering. I want to be a good sport climber and I want to be a good track climber. And it probably makes me like moderately good at all things, but, but that makes me happier than being a complete specialist. So I think that's going to help with my longevity so I can keep climbing till I die.
[00:47:00] [SPEAKER_09] What are your goals for the upcoming year? If you don't mind sharing?
[00:47:04] [SPEAKER_06] Well, I mean, they kind of fell off the wagon. I'm pregnant right now. So my goals have, have, have a ticking clock, Vicki.
[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_09] You got to send hard. It's like, I tried.
[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_06] I did try. I feel like if I had been gone praying like two weeks later, it would have happened. And I had this route I was trying on the cacadine, the sport route in the boulders. I was trying and I actually was trying it before I had my first child and didn't quite nail it. And I was so close this time. So it'll be a post baby number two prod, which is cool. It's so fun. I love it. So I'm actually kind of psyched. I get to go back. Um, so yeah, I'm not quite sure. It's hard when you start having another kid.
[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_06] I don't really know what the future holds, but I do want to keep climbing in my life and to keep climbing, like, you know, at the level that I have been. And I see a lot of these moms who have, you know, multiple kids who are, you know, these days are still climbing at a high level. It's really inspiring. So, and dads, you know, shout out to the dads. Yes.
[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_12] Thank you for the hardships of being a dad. Thank you for, for recognizing our space. It is hard.
[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_05] It's a different type of hard, but it's still hard. So yeah.
[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_09] Kudos fathers. In your weekend warrior as well, uh, in, in a sense with, with having a career, you know, uh, an actual J O B. Uh, and so it is when you, when you put kids in the mix. Like unemployed over here. But Paul, do you have goals for the year now that you're working with a coach?
[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_02] Uh, no, I'm honestly, I just want to keep my fitness. I don't want to, I just don't want to deteriorate. I really don't have like technical goals.
[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_09] Do you find yourself keeping your fitness fairly well?
[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_02] If you compare yourself to 10 years ago, surprisingly. Yeah. I'm not any less fit than I was 10 years ago. That's like super 20 years ago. It's kind of weird. Hell yeah. More. It's super strange, but it's, I'm having like improved at all. Kind of stasis. Which I'm good with. I'm like happy where I'm at, but that's good. Sure. It'd be great to like have a little more whatever, but I don't know. I feel good. Surprisingly.
[00:49:02] [SPEAKER_12] I'm so on your boat, dude. Yeah. It's nice.
[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.
[00:49:05] [SPEAKER_12] Like I keep saying that it's, I'm glad I didn't climb harder late or earlier. Exactly. Cause then I would have fallen off by now. That's right.
[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_02] I did just black point a route today that, that I did 20 years ago. Vicky, I got outclimbed by a four month old pregnant lady, which was amazing. She's my hero. But yeah, I totally black pointed this route that I would have onsited 20 years ago, but I wasn't having a good day.
[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_06] And that's okay, Paul. And that every day is a good day, right?
[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_02] What's the black point? It's when you unsend your love. Something you've onsited. Oh, right.
[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_12] You have to like put a big line through it on your list. I don't know.
[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_02] I don't make the list anymore, but I, in my mind, I knew I had black pointed.
[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_12] Huh?
[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_06] That's why I don't go back to roots. Cause I guarantee you won't send them again.
[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_12] That is good Vader. Unsend. Just live in the past. You know what? I disagree with that.
[00:49:52] [SPEAKER_09] I actually, cause I, I had been hung up by that for a while. And then I was like, you know what? Actually there's like really great routes out there that maybe I, I wouldn't be able to do now, but they're still awesome to get on. But I do, I feel like climbers more often than not, it feels like climbers have a bit of a hangup or a superstition about kind of quote unquote, unsending things. And, uh, do you feel that way as well?
[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_12] Well, I just think, you know, your, your time would better be spent elsewhere. Yeah. On something more easy for you.
[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_09] You do your 13 a every year. That's how you check in on yourself. Right. I do every season, every season. Oh yeah. Yeah. Have you done a summer season 13 a yet?
[00:50:30] [SPEAKER_12] Well, we just started because it's, um, July 31st is the end of the first season. And we're so no, I haven't, but it's super hot. So I got plenty of time. I got plenty of time. What I want to ask you guys though, a lot back to this like stewardship thing or this community thing, is there something you would like or wish or whatever, you know, we're in, we're, we're a little bit older. You have one little kid, another one on the way, you know, we tend as we get to older to
[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_12] get into lecturing mode of like you kids and your style and this and that. But I mean, is there, as this, you know, the, the pressure on the resource has grown all over, you know, North America in terms of climbing. This place is definitely, you know, seen this huge uptick in visitation amount of climbers all crawling all over the thing. You know, there's some of those people here that are just, you know, arriving here for
[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_12] the first time and, and looking forward to season after season here that they would kind of know or, or act in a way that was more along those lines of sort of stewardship or, or integration with the community and realize that it's not just about like what you want to do and, and everybody has to live here together. Who do you want to lecture Vicki?
[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_06] I want to, I have a, I have a specific point. I want to say, I'll come to that, but I do think that in general, like we have a limited, you know, even though like the rock here does seem like unlimited, it's a, we have a limited resource here and like we, as in like everyone here sharing this land. And I think that like respect for where you are is huge. Like it, you know, it does seem like you can, I can walk anywhere. It's a green forest.
[00:52:10] [SPEAKER_06] It'll grow back like next year, but you know, it's, that's maybe like if one person walks there like once a year, but that, you know, when there's like hundreds of thousands of climbers coming, is that, I feel like that's accurate.
[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_02] Half a million climber days here. We did the census last year. Okay. That's a lot of climbing.
[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_06] That is wild. So our impact is not light. So I just think like this really like, it's like where we were walking, where we're, you know, all the resources we're utilizing, you know, I think just like having respect for your community. I heard like something like we're like traveling climbers were using the local food bank. Like that's not okay. You know, stuff like that. So just being really respectful of where you're visiting and that, that this isn't, this is like a special place that we all are very lucky to be here.
[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_06] Um, with regards to the rock and stuff, I have this like very specific memory of a, of a, a climber by the name of Scott Milton, who, uh, sternly told my younger brother to brush the damn route on his way down when we were teenagers. And I think he made him cry. I have so, but I'm like, I'm like, gosh, you're so mean. But now I feel like I'm turning into this person where I'm getting to these crags and they're
[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_06] just like, and boulders and they're caked in chalk and caked in these huge tick marks. And, uh, and people aren't like taking care of their rock climbs. And so there's, there's lots of ways we can do that. You know, we talk about where you pee and poop, but it's also just really simple things like go and buy a brush and brush your goddamn holds. Like I just, I'm sorry. I just like really, I have, it's a, I have, it's a mountain, it's a mountain or a hill that
[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_06] I will, I will die on, but I just really feel like it's, it, it impacts our rock and you know, and, and granite, it's crazy. Even on granite, I'm finding like the, it's like not enjoyable to climb some of these climbs and like all it takes is you to just walk up and brush a boulder. And when you're done or, or lower down a little bit slower and brush holds on your way down. I just like, I challenge any, has any, who climbed today and brushed their holds?
[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_10] Yeah. You get a harness. Nice. Oh, Vicky's giving away harnesses now. She's got the harness power. You get a Lithos SL harness. Oh, not just a regular brush, like a wire brush.
[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_06] She gets a moss off of an abandoned root.
[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_09] He just flexed his brush. Yeah, he brought it. Right over here.
[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_06] I'm really sorry, I apologize for swearing. It's a boulder.
[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_09] A harness is something that you put on and you, the rope goes, it's, you'll figure it out. Yeah, he'll figure out what a harness is for.
[00:54:43] [SPEAKER_12] Um, okay, I'm done.
[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_06] Sorry.
[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_12] Now here, here to that. And by the way, can I just think Canadian ending? I'm sorry. Yeah.
[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_10] Brush your goddamn holds. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Uh, what do you, what, Paul, do you agree with the brush the holds?
[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_02] You know, I don't own a brush and Vicky was giving me shit for it today, but man, no wonder
[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_12] they're sitting so far apart.
[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_02] It doesn't make a difference for me. Like I don't, I'm not that good of a climber. So, but I think her point is not to be missed. I think we need to more conscientious of others and, and operating in the same environment and not just climbers, but other user groups as well. And it goes both ways. We have other people out there using the same trails as us. And we do have a huge impact on the environment. And, uh, I'd love if people were more considerate of others.
[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_02] And I think that, um, you know, that whole mentality of I'm here to send, here's my project, like that kind of negates the community vibe. And I think, uh, to cultivate that, I recommend all you young folks, uh, and even moderately aged folks to learn about climbing history, like we used to with reading. Cause you won't find this stuff out on YouTube as much. Like you might find the beta for your proj, but if you learn about history, uh, it kind
[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_02] of connects us in a pretty special way with, um, with the community. So I'm sure I could say more about that, but that's the end of my rant. I'm not going to apologize.
[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_09] You don't need to, and you shouldn't look up your Paul routes. What he's saying is learn about all that Paul's done, all that he's done here and developed here. And that's your Squamish history. Well, that's it.
[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_02] It's not just about you or me or whatever. It's about a bigger body of, of people who've been climbing here since the fifties. And also people who've been living here for millennia. So let's like show some respect as well.
[00:56:31] [SPEAKER_09] You know, you know, you know, to Peter Croft, um, who's fantastic. I've gotten an opportunity to, to chat with him on a couple occasions and such a humble crusher. Uh, a lot of, uh, people that climb here are probably kind of unsung like bad-ass climber heroes. Are there a few names that come to mind? Like I just saw heavy duty walking around here.
[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_02] He's a total multinational legend from the UK to the desert in Utah. And again, in Squamish, he's a mega steward for our community. He cleans up all kinds of roots, total legend of Squamish. He's been here for, yeah, 20 years. I bet now. And, uh, we're really grateful to have a person like him here. You guys must know heavy duty.
[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_12] Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. From the desert. Yeah. For me and Creek for sure.
[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_09] Should we wrap it up? I think we need to wrap it up. I think they're telling us we're supposed to, you're going to end with like, uh, uh, 45 second rapid fire question that you had prepared ahead of time. Yeah, that's right. I'm just kidding. He's just kidding. I'm putting Chris on the spot here. We have a couple minutes. Um, are there any questions from the audience that y'all have for Paul or Vicky before we officially conclude this, uh, hangout here? Any questions for our local legends?
[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_09] You might get something. What's your favorite color? Oh, we got a hand that goes up in the back there.
[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_12] What's your favorite color?
[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_09] Best beginner trad route? Best beginner trad route. Multi-pitch? Multi-pitch best beginner trad route. Come on up here. Lucy may. I'll give you your lithos SL harness. It's a great question.
[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_02] And some of these great beginner routes are super traffic. Vicky just said the spirit of Squamish, amazing beginner route, but try to be creative. Take the guidebook and look at the guidebook. Go through. It doesn't have to have all the stars, but if it fits your grade five, six, five, seven, something on the apron, it's such a sweet spot. And then somebody else just did a brand new, really easy route on the south side of the Papoose. It's called welcome to Squamish. And it's like super chill.
[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_02] It's like five, maybe one pitch of five, seven, and it's worth checking out, but you've got to do your research for it. So go online, check the new routes and look at the guidebooks and do your homework.
[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_12] Read a book.
[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.
[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_12] Awesome. All right, folks. Well, thank you so much for crowding in and actually filling the seats up. We were getting a little bit worried and we appreciate your enthusiasm. Give it up for our guests, Paul McSorley, Vicky Weldon.
[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_06] Thanks you guys.
[00:59:00] [SPEAKER_09] Thanks to my cohost here, Ryan Devlin and to Chris Caluse of the Enormocast. And y'all, we're going to be back here on the main stage tomorrow interviewing Jonathan Segrist and Tyler Thompson. And we're going to be talking all about the Lethos SL harness of which we gave a bunch away today. And we're going to give a bunch more away tomorrow. So make sure you swing back here. We also have some incredible evening programming. We got a film with Amity Warm and some other great stuff, live music. So hang out, have fun, grab a drink, and we'll see you back here in a little bit.
[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_12] And we'll be up here hanging out. So if you want to come up and chat, just find us. We got some stickers. We're going to grab a beer. And some stickers.
[00:59:35] [SPEAKER_09] He's accepting baby names. Come on up here. We'll see y'all in a bit.
[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_11] All right, folks. Thanks for listening. I don't usually put outros on the tweeners because I'm lazy. But right at the end of that, Paul McSorley mentioned heavy duty as being a huge part of the community up there. And not long after this, literally I think days after this, heavy duty, also known as Alan Stevenson, suffered a stroke. And I think he's recovering fairly well, but there are significant costs to the care and how his life is going to need to change.
[01:00:22] [SPEAKER_11] So if you want to help out a little bit, help a guy who's been a significant part of many, many climbing communities over the decades. Check out his GoFundMe. I just Googled it. Heavy duty stroke GoFundMe. Got me right there. Heavy duty Alan Stevenson, however you want to find it. It's out there. The link's too complicated to put it here, but it will be on my show notes. And if you've gotten this far on the episode, I still have your attention. I don't know who listens to these outros.
[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_11] Who goes deep into the outro song to find the Easter egg, quote, the real fans. I'll take this opportunity as usual to remind you to check your knots.
[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_10] We'll do it live. Okay. We'll do it live! Fuck it! Do it live! I'll write it and we'll do it live! Fucking thing sucks!
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