Enormocast Tweener: Harvey Wright Returns with Patio Pacifica

[00:00:00] You are listening to The Enormocast

[00:00:30] and a loudspeaker.

[00:00:49] And finally for the thin end of things, the SuperTech Z4 is round out the rack all the way down

[00:00:54] to the Wii little maybe I can fall but I don't really want to fall.

[00:00:57] It really will hold but let's not find out number zero.

[00:01:00] The bottom line is nobody researches, redesigns and continues to improve their cams like black

[00:01:05] diamond.

[00:01:06] So go to blacktimeanequipment.com or your favorite local shop and reward yourself with a couple

[00:01:10] new units for the coming season.

[00:01:13] You deserve it.

[00:01:26] In the south of France there is legendary green pan, le verdant, le calanque, say use.

[00:01:38] But there is also the legendary wind, the mistral.

[00:01:42] A strong cold nearly useless winds that can drive the people mad but create condition

[00:01:49] parfait por estalade.

[00:02:00] Now Las Portiva has captured the masterly wind in a new shoe, the mistral.

[00:02:05] Slightly downturn for precision but also designed for performance and comfort.

[00:02:10] A sticky toe patch makes the mistral and all around her for hooking and jamming alike.

[00:02:15] And let me tell you something, I have never slipped my feet into a more comfortable climbing

[00:02:19] shoe.

[00:02:20] Even performance snug these things feel like stuffing your feet into a buttery croissant

[00:02:25] but they climb way better than that as croissants are much too flaky to ride any sort of edge

[00:02:30] and forget about jamming.

[00:02:32] So if you're looking for a light comfortable all around her ride like the wind is Portiva

[00:02:36] calm or your local shop and try on a mistral and see if you ever want to take it off.

[00:02:41] Butter optional.

[00:02:43] Listen, where you plan it?

[00:02:46] Where you're doing the normal dumb whatever it is it's terrific.

[00:02:50] Oh yeah, it makes sense.

[00:02:52] That's a big place.

[00:02:53] Someone that talked about it.

[00:02:54] I'll say something really should.

[00:02:56] Look, you better get up there before you pan out so the pan's loose.

[00:03:00] You're very good.

[00:03:02] I have really enjoyed having them with you.

[00:03:05] I don't think so.

[00:03:08] But we share a continual style.

[00:03:11] Today's show is brought to you by Black Time In Equipment, Laws Portiva and with support

[00:03:29] from Maxim Roaps.

[00:03:31] Maxim has been keeping the normal cast off the deck since 2012.

[00:03:36] And don't forget our charter sponsor, Bonfire Coffee.

[00:03:39] Go to bonfirecoffee.com and enter your normal checkout for a discount on great coffee and

[00:03:45] to support the normal cast.

[00:03:47] And now back to the show.

[00:03:49] Hello and welcome to The Enorma Cast.

[00:03:57] This is your host, Chris Colouse.

[00:03:58] It is March 15th, 2024 about 10, 15 here in Colorado.

[00:04:05] And this is an Enorma Cast tweener, a show that goes between the full episodes here

[00:04:10] on The Enorma Cast.

[00:04:12] Another podcast, this would be bonus material.

[00:04:15] But you don't have to pay for shit over here at The Enorma Cast.

[00:04:18] Thanks to our sponsors, Black Diamond, Sportiva, Bonfire Coffee, Maxim Roaps, sometimes

[00:04:25] Peter W. Gilroy, sometimes Belay Specs.

[00:04:29] Anyway, that makes this podcast free for you guys.

[00:04:32] So support those sponsors.

[00:04:34] You'll keep getting free bonus content like this tweener with our friend and former guest,

[00:04:40] Harvey Wright.

[00:04:42] Do you guys remember Harvey Wright?

[00:04:43] Harvey Wright gave an awesome interview back in 2021 talking about some hard stuff.

[00:04:49] Addiction, why climbing can't cure every problem that we have and why love can.

[00:04:55] So I've stayed in touch with Harvey since that interview.

[00:04:58] We've been kind of long distance friends.

[00:05:00] But most of our chatting that goes on texts and in emails and stuff is about music.

[00:05:06] And Harvey has created a new album, patio Pacifica that he has out on Spotify.

[00:05:11] It's been out for a few months.

[00:05:13] But he wrote and recorded at least the demos while in a treatment facility for his addiction.

[00:05:21] And he's out the other side of that particular stint in rehab and promoting this album he's

[00:05:27] playing with his old band ponytails.

[00:05:30] Even though he wrote this one on his own, that band is backing him up now again and doing

[00:05:34] a couple of live gigs.

[00:05:35] So I thought I'd reconnect with Harvey.

[00:05:37] And though this is a climbing podcast, we mostly talk about music on this particular one

[00:05:42] which is another reason to make it a tweener.

[00:05:44] And I kind of mix it up with some clips in there as well, some live performance by Harvey.

[00:05:49] So I thought I'd tuck it in here.

[00:05:51] And then a few days we'll get another regular episode up kind of the full length, a

[00:05:56] normal cast's treatment.

[00:05:57] And if you remember Harvey from his last interview, I know you're probably pretty excited about

[00:06:01] it because he gave good interview last time.

[00:06:05] Intense, deep, thoughtful.

[00:06:08] One quick little thing if your morning is going great and you don't feel like hearing

[00:06:12] about addiction and or suicide attempts, kind of those heavy things.

[00:06:19] If those are the kind of things that bother you, or maybe it's just not the right moment

[00:06:23] right now as you're happily driving to the crag or whatever, then maybe check this one

[00:06:27] out later.

[00:06:28] I just wanted to give that heads up before you get too deep into this one.

[00:06:32] I'm not going to do an outro on this one.

[00:06:33] So let me do a couple things before we get into it.

[00:06:36] First of all, there's some music in this one.

[00:06:38] A couple of the tracks Harvey recorded just in his room guitar and vocals just a little

[00:06:44] bit before we actually connected to do the interview.

[00:06:47] So those are kind of live, raw, good sound and stuff.

[00:06:51] Also I poke in a couple different clips from his album, patio pacifica which can be found

[00:06:55] on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube all over the place.

[00:06:59] I'll put some links in the show notes you can follow up and find out where Harvey's music

[00:07:04] is as well as some earlier albums that he's on from his band Pony Tales all out there

[00:07:10] already to be listened to.

[00:07:12] Harvey would love if you checked him out.

[00:07:15] And lastly, if you guys catch this in time and you're up there in Vancouver or even in

[00:07:20] Squamish and want to head down to the big city for a wild night out, actually I don't

[00:07:25] think this will be a crazy wild night.

[00:07:26] It'll be an amazing night.

[00:07:29] But Pony Tales and Harvey have a gig coming up on March 29th at a place in Vancouver called

[00:07:35] China Cloud Studios.

[00:07:36] I got an address here 524 Main Street but that's all I know about it.

[00:07:42] For more information, the easiest thing to do is follow Pony Tales band on Instagram

[00:07:46] or if you want to follow Harvey right he's at Harvey Harvey on Instagram.

[00:07:51] The information's there about the gig coming up on the 29th of March 2024 if you're hearing

[00:07:56] this after that go follow them anyway because they probably have more gigs if you're

[00:08:01] up there in Vancouver.

[00:08:02] Cool.

[00:08:03] Alright, let's get to it.

[00:08:05] Little tweener with Harvey right.

[00:08:28] You canadian's deal with the giant loud trucks too.

[00:08:32] So out here on the western slope loud ass fucking trucks.

[00:08:37] Especially in Squamish too right?

[00:08:39] You're talking about your trip to Squamish.

[00:08:41] You're like oh I can hear it was the fucking highway.

[00:08:44] Yeah because they had to pin it up the hill you know from that stop that like the stoplight

[00:08:51] you know.

[00:08:52] And then if they're leaving town they got to pin it up the hill or if the trucks are

[00:08:57] coming into town they're J-Break and all the way down that fucking hill.

[00:09:00] Yeah anyway.

[00:09:03] That got me a lot of flak so we don't need to go there too hard again sorry to bring

[00:09:07] it up you know.

[00:09:10] The view is nice.

[00:09:12] It is yeah and maybe they're done with that bridge they were building well yeah maybe

[00:09:17] there was construction or something because you definitely hear road noise but I don't

[00:09:20] know if it's not.

[00:09:21] No no they were building I think like some a bridge right there like extending the lanes

[00:09:26] or something and it was like they're putting pylons into you know basically the granite

[00:09:31] bedrock right.

[00:09:32] Yeah yeah I mean it was like it was like kind of bowel shaking you know to quote to quote

[00:09:38] cake from going the distance but yeah it was pretty funny so yeah but then I started

[00:09:45] I started like talking about it and people were not having it so.

[00:09:50] They're like don't mess with our sweet crag anyway.

[00:09:56] But all of us Americans think that as soon as you cross the border it's just empty wilderness

[00:10:01] up there where you guys are living.

[00:10:03] Yeah right.

[00:10:04] I mean mostly only within but there's only people within about a hundred miles of the

[00:10:08] border.

[00:10:09] Right right so cool well I pressed record and rolling.

[00:10:15] Yeah we don't have to go like you know do the normal like deep hour and a half in normal

[00:10:21] cast because we already did that.

[00:10:23] Yeah.

[00:10:24] Yeah so I just had this idea like I said in my email of doing sort of a focused thing

[00:10:29] kind of you know that film you sent me was sort of like an addendum to the old film

[00:10:35] you know to crux.

[00:10:36] Yeah.

[00:10:37] So in that sense like this could be just an addendum and plus I wanted to hear your

[00:10:40] music and I'm excited that you're playing again and that you are that you got this band

[00:10:47] like rolling again and yeah.

[00:10:50] And it seems to have played this huge part in this sort of I don't know what you want

[00:10:55] chapter of your recovery or whatever you want to call it.

[00:11:00] So let's just dive in with that.

[00:11:02] I mean to reintroduce you I guess a little bit I'd love people to go back and listen to

[00:11:07] that original episode.

[00:11:09] It's it is a fan favorite.

[00:11:11] It's one of my favorites just because it's like I don't know I felt like I lucked into

[00:11:16] it in a lot of ways.

[00:11:18] The reason I was introduced to you is because of this film Cruxic.

[00:11:23] I mean this this was being filmed four or five years ago and you know came out post pandemic

[00:11:31] because that plays a big part in the film.

[00:11:34] And you know there was this like narrative in that film I think that they tried to make

[00:11:38] was that Harvey was going to be saved by climbing.

[00:11:42] And you being someone who's dealt with substance abuse problems your whole life and or not

[00:11:48] your whole life.

[00:11:49] But yeah pretty much pretty much 20 years.

[00:11:52] Yeah, but then in the film the narrative kind of blew up as the pandemic hit and isolation

[00:11:58] caused you to relapse.

[00:12:01] And then you know and then that narrative that we want to believe in this like narrative

[00:12:06] that climbing would save you would save everybody can just like teach us all to be you know

[00:12:11] okay in our bodies in our minds.

[00:12:14] Yeah, it's absurd on its face because none of us are fine we're not fine nobody's fine

[00:12:19] and yeah so that was kind of the introduction and we did a really great interview and kind

[00:12:24] of became friends I mean we've never met in person but we do check in with you and chat

[00:12:29] on Laura on text occasionally.

[00:12:32] So yeah here we are again Harvey welcome back to the normal cast.

[00:12:35] Hello it's great to be back.

[00:12:37] Yeah but so talk about talk about this music that's what I really want to talk about and

[00:12:41] how it fit into again this year that you've spent in recovery.

[00:12:48] Yeah I mean my band Ponytails, some of the singer in it and we were actually on the rise

[00:12:54] pretty you know having some decent success like right up until 2020 we played our last show

[00:13:02] on like March 13th of 2020 just a few days before everything locked down and that kind

[00:13:08] of shut everything down and then the next four years to follow were pretty unstable for

[00:13:15] me and people other people in the band there's some falling out.

[00:13:21] Couple people had kids and it sort of was just flat and my life was really like I said

[00:13:28] unmanageable unpredictable unstable at the end of the crux film I ended up going to

[00:13:33] treatment and that was I've been twice in sense of three times in the last four years

[00:13:41] and at the second treatment center I went in there and I definitely did not have a plan

[00:13:52] of writing any music but I walked in there and they had a piano there and you know they

[00:13:59] take your phone away and you're on a whole bunch of restrictions you have free time

[00:14:03] and stuff like that but you're you're doing like eight hours of programming a day therapy

[00:14:07] and stuff and then you have some free time where you can watch TV or whatever you know

[00:14:10] I've been around pianos before I know one song that my mother taught me she tried to teach

[00:14:15] me piano when I was a kid like three times and I refused to learn but as an adult I've

[00:14:20] been like I wish I could play that thing but anyway so they had this there and I pretty

[00:14:24] much had no distractions in a decent amount of free time and they had this chord chart

[00:14:31] this big you know like three and a half foot long chord chart that was on top of the piano

[00:14:37] and you can see which chords match with which and where to put your hands and I just started

[00:14:43] noodle and on the thing and wrote a few songs and it I can get more into it later but it kind

[00:14:51] of spiraled into an album that I didn't expect to make and you know one of the questions

[00:14:59] you prompted me with earlier was how how's music feeling like with sobriety and and stuff

[00:15:06] like that and it's interesting because the whole time ponytails was going pre pandemic

[00:15:11] I was sober that whole time and then I've done this album sober so music's actually like

[00:15:18] rock and roll is kind of connected with sobriety and clarity and positive energy and especially

[00:15:25] the songs on this record there it was made in rehab completely but my friend john even

[00:15:33] said he's like for for rehab album it sounds pretty joyful and yeah they're their songs

[00:15:39] that are really close to me and I spent a lot of time with them and they celebrate a lot

[00:15:45] of stuff there's some you know darkness in there and processing of certain things in my life

[00:15:54] but overall it's a it's a real happy album to listen to and I love listening to it I'm actually

[00:16:00] kind of obsessed with it I listen to it all the time and I'm not afraid to say that I totally

[00:16:04] dig my music that's cool I mean I you know I have the same issue of like having to listen

[00:16:13] to myself and sometimes I'm psyched on it and sometimes it's a little bit you know cringey

[00:16:18] but I mean do you are you able to like not sit there and and sort of needle at the production

[00:16:25] and things like that and you can just you can't just sit and enjoy what you created without

[00:16:31] second guessing your choices or anything like that yeah there was a period of that like the

[00:16:36] process of making it like I said I started playing these songs on the piano I was in the treatment

[00:16:43] centers called pacifika the albums called patio pacifika because of that that's kind of an inside

[00:16:47] joke that I had with the client but so I was there for three months and the process of it ended up

[00:16:54] kind of being like I would write a song on the piano on like a Monday and just just start with

[00:17:03] like the music part and then I'd kind of have lyrics by like midweek and then I would practice those

[00:17:09] and I was allowed to have my phone on Friday nights Saturday for about 10 hours and Sunday for

[00:17:15] about six hours and so I would get my phone in my laptop and then I would demo them in garage band

[00:17:21] just playing them on the piano and guitar and vocals and then they would take my computer away

[00:17:29] and I wouldn't get it again for the next week and I wouldn't be able to listen to what I had

[00:17:33] recorded and stuff and it was kind of this rush on Sunday before I had to turn my my laptop into

[00:17:39] sort of get it demoed and then I you know I wouldn't be able to be fucking around with it and

[00:17:46] sitting around on Instagram so on Monday again I'd kind of start messing around on the piano again

[00:17:51] by the end of the week when I got my phone I'd have another song so I was there for 12 weeks

[00:17:56] and then I ended up writing and recording 12 songs and I had no idea what I was doing

[00:18:02] I was just in garage band you know I've been in a studio before with ponytails and had producers

[00:18:09] and stuff like that so I picked up a couple tricks but really had no idea which was kind of cool

[00:18:16] because I think that's what made it sound like it did and luckily the music is kind of 60s inspired

[00:18:23] it's kind of feel good rock and roll that doesn't necessarily require a super high production value

[00:18:31] like I said everything the guitars are just coming out of a Princeton reverb with

[00:18:37] no other effects other than what's in the amp some reverb some tram all the vocals have some

[00:18:44] delay and a bit of verb and pretty much that's it so I had these demos and they sounded pretty good

[00:18:51] but they for sure sounded like demos and I was like well maybe we can get a grant and when I'm

[00:18:56] finished treatment I can record this properly in a studio but I ended up relapsing right away

[00:19:03] having to go into another treatment center we didn't get the grant money and then here I am again

[00:19:09] kind of in the same place like well I almost thought about releasing the demos as they were

[00:19:16] but I was like I think I can kind of make this a little bit better and I open up those files

[00:19:20] and as soon as I made one thing better I was like okay I can probably redo this I retract most of it

[00:19:27] but I still left a piece in every song from the original demos but I've re-did the vocals and

[00:19:32] guitars and used a different piano and made it sound better and that was kind of risky it felt like

[00:19:39] because to take something that already sounds good and redo the entire fucking thing to make

[00:19:47] it sound like 15% better the chances of making it worse you know so it was it was a little stressful

[00:19:55] and then I was gonna pay someone to mix it because mixing's super important and I have no idea

[00:20:00] what I'm doing in mixing but again I was like I'm in rehab I don't have any money so I guess I'll

[00:20:04] just mix it and delve into that and I guess where I'm going with that long-winded story to answer your

[00:20:10] question is well I listened to it and I'm like yeah some of the parts blend together like the mixing

[00:20:15] could have been better it could have been mastered professionally you know it could have sounded

[00:20:19] air quotes better but like it sounds like it does and it's it's cool and it's I don't I wouldn't

[00:20:26] want to change it because there's some magic and how it recorded and I did have to kind of come

[00:20:33] around full circle to that but yeah I mean it's music right like it's doesn't have to be a certain

[00:20:41] way and I think I'm happy with the job I did so as long as we've gotten this far into talking about

[00:20:47] making the record let's do a song right now that you recorded this morning a version of bad for

[00:20:54] love yeah you want to say about this song uh this song actually came a little later I wrote it at

[00:21:01] after being at pacificat was the one song I added to the album and you know if you listen to

[00:21:09] the last podcast or if you know me at all I talk about love a lot and loving yourself and this

[00:21:13] positivity and I was having this conversation with my friend Nathan and it was when I was still using

[00:21:19] and uh you know not trying to like spiritually bypass myself but really deep into the drugs but just

[00:21:28] trying to take that compassionate approach to my life being pretty bad and I said something like

[00:21:36] well you know like as long as you keep like your heart open and try to love it it'll be okay

[00:21:43] and my friend just looked me dead in the eyes and he goes yeah well cocaine is bad for love

[00:21:49] and I was just like that's it hit me deep and I was like that's a that's a good line

[00:21:58] and so I wrote this song and it was a song that needed to be written you know like um for me personally

[00:22:06] it's a honest from the heart acknowledgement of the person I want to be and the person I am

[00:22:17] the exact thing that gets in the way of that

[00:22:34] when he found me into my resolve

[00:22:37] you

[00:23:07] you

[00:23:17] you're not loving it or when you're dying to give it won't you know it's keeping you dying

[00:23:26] you're waking up in the morning me to close your eyes saying you sorry cocaine

[00:23:37] it's bad for love

[00:23:41] it's okay

[00:23:45] it's bad for love

[00:24:07] now that you're left with nothing take everything you know give it to love it

[00:24:18] nothing is real it's not been known it's true and you know well baby okay

[00:24:26] it's bad for love

[00:24:30] well that's no cocaine

[00:24:36] it's bad for love

[00:24:38] oh okay

[00:24:42] it's just no good for love

[00:24:48] oh

[00:25:03] well you're talking about when you were in the treatment center writing the tunes

[00:25:06] at first time it occurred to me that like that is actually a brilliant you know idea for

[00:25:13] you know a songwriting retreat like yeah you know if somebody wanted to sort of create

[00:25:19] something like that that format actually sounds pretty awesome totally like okay now stop

[00:25:26] fun with your phone for the next week and go write some music because the phone is such this

[00:25:31] distraction and the technology even though you needed it and you used it it's also this this

[00:25:37] distraction i think in a lot of ways that like takes people away from the music that they created

[00:25:44] and puts it into this realm of like well like you said well now it needs to for it to be a real

[00:25:49] song it needs to have this happen and for it to be professional sounding it needs to have this

[00:25:53] happen and you know these great tracks are these great songs that that have passed down to

[00:25:59] through time and you know you talked about the 50s and 60s and the technology like that the Beatles

[00:26:04] were using yeah you know it was so primitive yeah you know these the original four tracks and things

[00:26:10] like that and yeah so it's just fascinating that it's almost like this crutch but they took it away

[00:26:16] from you for five days while you got and you became creative yeah i mean a lot of people do

[00:26:24] artist retreats or rest in ceased in order to do that and this is pretty much what that was plus

[00:26:30] with a bunch of therapy in between it was you know it made my experience really pleasant and joyful

[00:26:39] you know going to rehab obviously socks but i typically tend to thrive there because i'm actually

[00:26:45] safe you know and after a couple weeks of settling down i feel really good and it just allowed

[00:26:52] a lot of that creativity to come out of me i don't know if in the future if i'll ever have

[00:26:57] an output of creativity like that again it's okay if i don't but concentrated into 12 weeks like that

[00:27:05] and yeah having the laptop taken away so i couldn't just be sitting there twiddling knobs and

[00:27:10] messing around it was just like you know the songs got kind of encapsulated and then

[00:27:17] i got to do another one without thinking about the last so i was great format

[00:27:23] i mean it's sort of ironic though you know what you have to go through yeah we get there so to speak

[00:27:30] i mean the actual retreat the the real version of this for like if they did turn it into a

[00:27:38] music retreat would be out of your pace scale anyway you know so yeah you wouldn't get to go totally

[00:27:43] you know it would be in the woods of bamp and like you know it costs like you know six thousand

[00:27:49] dollars a week to go and do it yeah totally not subsidized by the government that's for sure

[00:27:56] so yeah i mean and i just i mean you know again we have this like the original narrative that we

[00:28:04] started this whole thing on or that the guys that made crux was again this like you know save him

[00:28:10] through climbing and that now we have this sort of weird narrative where the music is

[00:28:15] is this thing that kind of kept you steady yeah and is so it's currently keeping you steady in the

[00:28:20] sense that you you know you said like your music output has been generally through sobriety um but

[00:28:27] i had that question about but more of the lifestyle i know you're gonna start playing out i mean

[00:28:31] i don't know if you have shows beyond you have one coming up um in van koover like what on the eight

[00:28:36] or something like that be very first it's a week away okay right you know and you start playing out

[00:28:43] and for me playing out music it's i've always been in bar bands that's as far as i've ever gotten

[00:28:49] and bar bands come with bars right there in front of the you know when they come with you know

[00:28:55] it's like the bartenders who treat you right put the pictures on the stage and you know all

[00:29:01] that sort of thing and so it's like that was kind of my question is is entering that world

[00:29:06] i have never had a problem with alcohol um but you know i always almost always drank when i played

[00:29:13] yeah you know i did a couple shots before you know the liquid courage to get up on stage everybody has

[00:29:19] some sense of stage fright i think or at least performance anxiety um so yeah what what what about

[00:29:25] that i mean what what kind of you know ideas do you have about safeguarding um the temptation that

[00:29:32] comes with that world the late night after parties and things like that yeah i mean

[00:29:38] my story uh has been so public and right the people in the band and the people coming to the show

[00:29:49] and just my openness with it is kind of what protects me i mean if anybody saw me with a

[00:29:55] fear at that show it would be totally weird no not just weird but well it would be very weird and then

[00:30:01] it would be like what the fuck like so i've kind of made it possible to not it just wouldn't be

[00:30:08] allowed right so it's not even an option so that's a good safeguard um you know i've been through my

[00:30:16] fair share of grief and loss and depression and lots of those sort of dark things that are associated

[00:30:22] associated with using an addiction but i've kind of discovered over these last few years that

[00:30:29] most of my relapses happen and most of my tendencies to use are centered around

[00:30:37] positive energy and uh an excess of excitement and joy and so i get

[00:30:46] sure a little bit nervous going on stage but i love performing and i love being up there and i get

[00:30:51] psyched and high off that and so that level of excitement where you're like wow i'm stoked like

[00:31:00] that is kind of usually the thing that makes me be like let's keep this going keep that going

[00:31:05] that kind of thing yeah i think that's the i think isn't that the the i mean that's the age old pitfall

[00:31:11] yeah and when the lights go down in the in the you know everybody goes home now what

[00:31:17] yeah everything yeah i mean that's something that's afflicted you know musicians for

[00:31:21] yeah all of time i'll be going to a friend's house after the show yeah i mean that's interesting

[00:31:28] that's what you got to do i don't you have to be active towards you know like i said create

[00:31:33] situations to make sure that um that things are uh are sort of on the steady for sure and yeah

[00:31:40] the biggest help has been my openness with it because that's created a community that i'm surrounded

[00:31:46] with whether it's and i'll share my story with anybody i'm not really that protective of it nor do

[00:31:51] i think i personally need to be because that's what's protected me is not hiding it so whether it's

[00:31:59] people at work or just people on instagram i've never met or my closest friends they all know i had a

[00:32:06] super bad problem smoking crack like it's out there and so when people are in the know

[00:32:15] you can't go break in the rules right it makes accountability easier yeah so i'm very grateful

[00:32:22] that i have a community of people that have you know not judged me for it and they've they've

[00:32:30] been there to listen and just you know been it been in my life with what it is yeah i kind of had

[00:32:37] a line of questioning but you've sort of answered it but about this idea of even doing my show um

[00:32:43] you know and that that's been kind of the crux of what we've talked about

[00:32:48] and i think it brought you a lot of love from from you know what i jokingly called the Enormo Nation

[00:32:56] to find them all to be very i mean honestly my fans are amazing and they're very sympathetic and

[00:33:02] they're willing to listen and and uh hear what you had to say and so and i know i'm sure some of

[00:33:07] them followed you on on instagram now and i've encouraged you so yeah but it is interesting because

[00:33:12] i do also feel sometimes like am i am i working this voyeuristic angle but i also feel good that

[00:33:18] we've kept in touch yeah you know it wasn't just the one and done and um hopefully you've found

[00:33:23] that helpful and i've enjoyed talking to you and we get to connect on music which i think is

[00:33:28] the school thing that goes beyond just talking about climbing which has been a lot of fun and why

[00:33:33] i wanted to have you on the show send in each other songs when you're in the hot tub yeah

[00:33:38] yeah

[00:33:40] sharing embarrassing old recordings oh yeah those are rippin man you know i uh

[00:33:47] crux was received really well like i i expected it would be but i thought sure like on the

[00:33:54] internet or somewhere there's got to be some kind of comment that's like negative but i

[00:33:59] just have not heard one and they probably still exist but it was amazing the reception that film

[00:34:07] got and i think i was obviously making the film i was pretty open and vulnerable about things

[00:34:14] but i think since that film and since things have progressed being received that way or having that

[00:34:21] sort of acceptance has made me even even more willing to share and more vulnerable

[00:34:29] just because it didn't you know it didn't backfire on me it actually did the opposite

[00:34:37] and it's interesting because i get a fair amount of praise for

[00:34:43] oh like it's so amazing how you've shared this story so openly and and vulnerable

[00:34:49] and i understand that you know because it's hard for people and it's probably hard for people

[00:34:55] because maybe they haven't been received in the way that i have by my friends and community

[00:35:00] but it's an interesting thing to get praise for because i don't know if i like to think of it as like

[00:35:05] i'm being vulnerable i'm just being me and i'm just saying what my life is and sharing a part

[00:35:14] of my humanity that shouldn't be vulnerable because it's just your humanness right like it's

[00:35:24] and we all have problems and if you're a human you're allowed to have problems and you're allowed

[00:35:33] to have a problem that might take 20 years to fix or five trips to rehab or or ups and downs or

[00:35:40] moments where you're like oh i totally got this nailed and moments where you're like whoa

[00:35:45] i thought i had it nailed and i do not you know we're allowed to have that

[00:35:52] i don't wish it on anybody but i hope that anybody experiencing something difficult understands that

[00:36:02] they're allowed to have that difficulty and it doesn't mean that they're wrong

[00:36:06] you know or they failed it's just a part of being human

[00:36:37] i

[00:36:52] mean i just can't imagine anybody at least that who listens to this show like coming down on you

[00:36:57] in some negative way it would be i mean it would be sort of shocking but then there's also like

[00:37:02] kind of intent because you know there could be someone that came in and said

[00:37:07] dude wasn't this guy get his fucking shit together you know but then there could be someone who

[00:37:12] came to you and you know with open arms and said dude why don't you get your shit together exactly

[00:37:17] you know so it's like you know it's not like you know sort of looking at your situation

[00:37:23] and and kind of begging you or like you know whatever could joling or anything i mean i'm sure

[00:37:29] you've got friends that do that like Harvey come on i love you man but come on yeah and that's

[00:37:34] it that's you know it's not like an attack but it could be if that was intent you know so it's

[00:37:40] just kind of a fascinating thing to think about and um you know putting your story out there is

[00:37:46] it's probably helpful um you know i can only imagine that that people look at you and

[00:37:53] and see somebody that you know puts out this positive energy and finds that encouraging and

[00:37:59] they're sort of darkest hours um and commiserating with somebody is a form of therapy you know yeah

[00:38:06] i mean the whole thing was like a very difficult pathway to like real love and real self acceptance

[00:38:17] and tolerance and i don't think i would have ever gotten i haven't crossed the finish line on that

[00:38:23] by any means but i don't know if i would have gotten that without the road that addiction took me down

[00:38:30] i mean when we finished crux like going back to that sort of narrative of this saved my life

[00:38:39] we know that it didn't and i i had thought it did and it did for a period of time but then you

[00:38:44] know you get more more shit comes your way and things actually got like way worse after crux

[00:38:54] there's some pretty dark parts in that movie but um you know after that one of my my father died

[00:39:02] and i came back to Vancouver when we taped that episode and i was still i hadn't really landed

[00:39:07] properly and and then i was mostly into doing powder cocaine and drinking and around that summer

[00:39:15] of 21 i got introduced to a new method of using coke and smoking it and the once i got into that

[00:39:23] that just really took things off i had uh an overdose that was very close to killing me um

[00:39:37] that just just really got messy and i had to love myself through that

[00:39:47] and that's what kept me alive you know and the crux kind of ends with like my own attempt on my life

[00:39:57] and when i was up there on that bridge and that pedestrian kind of pulled me down and gave me a hug

[00:40:04] and i cried in his arms when i sort of woke up from that i was like never again you know like

[00:40:11] i don't care how bad it gets i'm i'm not gonna like pull away that love for myself and that was hard

[00:40:23] because when you're alone in your bedroom and you're spending all your money on drugs and

[00:40:29] you're isolating and you're smoking crack and you're doing all this ugly shit that's not really

[00:40:36] commendable it's pretty easy to hate yourself and i did but i would bring it back and it was like

[00:40:43] this training of like tolerance for something that was really hard to tolerate and that's what brought

[00:40:52] me back to you know going to treatment and doing these things because i don't think even though

[00:40:58] i experienced hardcore addiction i don't think my heart's cut out for that man it's

[00:41:04] it's well yeah i mean there's an irony in what you're saying you know these things of like

[00:41:09] i don't know accepting it and i think someone listening might be like well no you don't accept it

[00:41:15] you don't like you know uh go towards it in a way but um but it sounds like that was a path to

[00:41:22] healing for you and in this kind of i'm almost like um what's the word i'm looking for contrarian way

[00:41:30] like accepting it made you love yourself and therefore you could see a sort of pathway to to

[00:41:36] treatment yeah totally and it wasn't like i was i mean i was doing my best at that time like

[00:41:43] that's what my best looked like right and so i had to accept it and i didn't accept it in a

[00:41:51] passive way it was hard to accept like but if i was any harder on myself i don't know if that would have

[00:42:02] you know like so going through that suffering gave me uh i don't know how to word this

[00:42:15] i got to know myself deeper i learned a higher tolerance for myself and a higher value of myself

[00:42:21] and what i can go through what where i want to be and the i'm glad that the using and those dark times

[00:42:32] didn't like strip me of that or take that away that value like i had to say to myself like regardless

[00:42:40] if you smoke crack the rest of your life and you never do anything like you still have value as a

[00:42:45] human being you know and and i want all of us to be able to feel that in some way doesn't matter

[00:42:53] what your life looks like you have value being here in the world

[00:43:23] and if you want to go through that you can't hear my sound it hasn't been easy

[00:43:38] what does that mean inside but it doesn't lie it's a good night

[00:43:46] oh

[00:43:54] so let me ask you this we're on you know this is my running normacast joke this is a climbing podcast

[00:43:59] yeah so um you know and ostensibly we met because you're climbing that was the the the basis of

[00:44:05] the movie crux and um and so i want to ask you where that is these days where is climbing fit

[00:44:11] into your life it's in a good place as far as um yeah i'm psyched um yeah from 2021 up until

[00:44:19] just this summer of 23 i don't think i really did any that was kind of a shock from as devoted

[00:44:27] as i was to it but life didn't really allow me to it but this i went to treatment in February of

[00:44:35] 2023 i'm still here now i'm in my last week so i'll be a year coming up here in a week or so

[00:44:46] and i finished my primary care the 90 days i guess mid-May and um i had an amazing summer i i

[00:44:56] accounted i counted my pitches i did 322 pitches between

[00:45:01] May 1st and october 1st which is the most i've ever done in a season it was great

[00:45:08] i was out there all the time because i was kind of working part-time and

[00:45:11] yeah i just i jumped right back into it and had an awesome awesome summer

[00:45:18] and i even took some people from the treatment center climbing it was really funny and this was

[00:45:22] back in like march so we were only like a month in and this place you're allowed to get a weekend

[00:45:28] pass there's a little maybe more freedom here than the last place but unless you're past 60 days

[00:45:36] of being here you need to leave with someone else another client who's over 60 days

[00:45:42] and i don't drive my friend my climbing partner Travis drives and there was a

[00:45:48] you know like a nice weather window coming in march for squamish and i was like oh maybe go

[00:45:52] climb and and the the other clients i was sharing the the floor with here like they knew i climbed and

[00:46:00] maybe they'd seen crux at that point and one of the guys k c he was like i'd really like to go

[00:46:04] climbing with you and i was like there's weather window coming up you want to go to squamish

[00:46:09] and so i called my friend Travis and i was like hey can you you want to go climbing uh i'm going to

[00:46:15] you know take my friend from the surrey rehab and we'll we'll go and i ended up we ended up doing a

[00:46:20] multi-pitch like a pretty easy one but still like five pitches and it just blew this guy's mind who'd

[00:46:27] never been climbing before we did sky walker and squamish and we got to the bottom of the route

[00:46:31] there was snow at the base the whole thing was running with water i hadn't let a pitch in like two

[00:46:37] years and i had to rope gun the whole thing but i did it and i was that like really amped me up

[00:46:43] um that kind of started just a great summer of of climbing i was supposed to go to the valley in

[00:46:49] october and make another attempt on el cap but i had to cancel it but yeah i'm i'm in full

[00:46:59] full swing and we're gonna start getting good weather here in bc pretty soon so

[00:47:07] last time i checked out cap still there yeah so you should be good permits and weird and they're

[00:47:12] not they're gonna take all they're gonna take all the bolts out or they're gonna they are they

[00:47:16] may take all the bolts out so you better not wait too long but with the government even that's

[00:47:22] that'll take years and years ago there you go if it did come to pass but besides doing it illegally

[00:47:28] would be more your style there we go that's rock and roll exactly um well cool let me ask you this

[00:47:35] about um about ponytails you mentioned you know there was some the band in and well or at least

[00:47:42] if it ever ended but it people went their own ways and and um whatever happened happened so

[00:47:48] tell me about reforming what's the constitution of the band now and um who's backing you up

[00:47:54] and uh what does it look like now there's six of us um yeah we got two guitars bass drums uh my

[00:48:03] friends singing all the harmonies because i tracked so many harmonies on that album um did i

[00:48:09] forget everything piano bass two guitars drums two singers and some of the people i've met newly

[00:48:17] some of them i've known for a while from the music circle you know i had this album recorded

[00:48:22] and shared it with some people and people liked it and wanted to play it with me which i'm very

[00:48:27] grateful for and the band is just i call it the safest rock and roll band in the world because

[00:48:33] everybody's so sweet we're just like all there's no egos um

[00:48:41] nobody really parties that hard like it's not you know crazy uh we're all kind to each other

[00:48:49] everybody's like spiritual we're like this is a little like Buddhist rock and roll

[00:48:54] trauma trauma informed rock and roll we're calling it

[00:49:00] so we uh we only kind of really started seriously rehearsing in November because climbing season

[00:49:08] took a lot of my time and some other things were going on but we've been rehearsing a lot getting

[00:49:13] ready for the show and we've just got it dialed like just in time it was a lot teaching uh five people

[00:49:22] twelve songs that i wrote getting them to play it but they're all incredible players and i'm really

[00:49:28] happy with how the live versions of the songs are sounding and just over the moon to play this show

[00:49:37] it's really cool too that it's happening on the last day of my stay at the treatment center

[00:49:43] mat now it's called phoenix society and so it's happening at the completion of one year

[00:49:50] and i'm moving back into my apartment um the day after the show so there's this album that happened

[00:49:58] during this time and it's it's it's being celebrated with the show in a year of sobriety and moving

[00:50:05] out going back into the world kind of thing it's wild how it all happened

[00:50:11] you ready yeah i'm ready

[00:50:19] it's ready as all ever be is that what they say it was a good idea to stay for a year i think

[00:50:28] the last treatment center i was out i stayed for the 90 days i was thriving when i was in there

[00:50:32] you know i had made this album i was working out twice a day i felt great and left thinking like

[00:50:38] i got this and then it just wasn't enough time to build enough structure in my life or community

[00:50:46] or habits and to go from a highly structured environment to being alone in my apartment again

[00:50:54] was just a huge shock and it wasn't that i was lonely but it was that i was alone and when i'm alone

[00:51:00] i'm like i can do whatever i want right now nobody is gonna know of course they do find out but

[00:51:09] there's this like little hedonistic permission giving guy that's like yeah let's have a good time

[00:51:14] tonight put a record on and buy some drugs and just lock the doors um and that there wasn't enough time

[00:51:25] for the you know things to settle in and i'm really glad i spent a whole year kind of slowly

[00:51:31] integrating back so yeah i'm ready next time you have those feelings put on a two-hour youtube

[00:51:41] tutorial on gradually yeah that'll just suck your blood right now like this one who got a bed

[00:51:48] yeah totally but it would be you know it's necessary if you really want to like that program is

[00:51:56] you know it's endless yeah rabbit hole so yeah you know i ended up you got a guitar in your hand

[00:52:02] you'll be safe i ended up redoing the the the tracking and stuff in logic and it was it was

[00:52:06] interesting too because i still didn't pay for it i did the whole thing because i was in the

[00:52:10] treatment for 90 days i did it with the whole 90 day trial i literally finished mixing it like on day

[00:52:16] 89 thanks apple that's awesome isn't the man now you got another deadline 90 day

[00:52:27] the all my tracks are gonna disappear yeah they're gonna claw them back if i don't finish this thing

[00:52:35] awesome let's go out on on another tune you want to intro intro uh the next one yeah this

[00:52:40] one's called barbie and bam bam it's uh it's a song i uh well i got the nickname barbie at my last

[00:52:49] rehab i there was a time yeah yeah i really like it rhymes with harvi you know and um

[00:52:58] there was a client there was a co-ed facility and her name was blank but it sort of rhymes with

[00:53:04] bam bam and bam bam is also an affectionate slang term for cocaine and i guess when i first met

[00:53:11] her she was like hey what's your name and i was like my name's harvi she's australian and she

[00:53:17] was like bobby thought i said my name was barbie and i was like no but you can call me barbie anyway

[00:53:24] it's kind of a song that parallels this um adventurous troublesome relationship with drugs

[00:53:35] so you could think of barbie as being me and bam bam as the cocaine and it's a tale of two lovers

[00:53:44] out for adventure and finance and trouble

[00:53:54] you

[00:53:59] float it in on a tim 10 it's when he felt his heart go bam bam

[00:54:06] he wasn't looking for a party but he like she called it barbie oh no we really didn't mind her

[00:54:18] he said the tale of Billy mine up and she's a raroshino have to bear

[00:54:26] they've been surfing turrets out the care that's why barbie

[00:54:33] and bam bam

[00:54:39] party

[00:54:42] bam bam

[00:54:44] bam

[00:55:01] press off with the purple pass dreaming it's heeding for the relapse

[00:55:08] she been is pushing down a bridge low they were rushing for those grilose lucky some choices

[00:55:18] never last maybe the balance to become the past see fits us in between each other

[00:55:27] they caught the fears for one another that's when barbie

[00:55:36] mad bam bam

[00:55:41] barbie

[00:55:44] mad bam bam

[00:55:47] whoa whoa barbie

[00:55:50] he

[00:55:52] loves his bam bam

[00:55:55] we all know that Harvey

[00:55:58] like this peruvian bam bam oh yes he does

[00:56:20] you

[00:56:34] thank you a lot of fun