Enormocast Tweener: Didier Berthod – Facing the World (Part 2)

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[00:01:12] And now back to the show.

[00:01:18] Hello and welcome to the Enormocast.

[00:01:20] This is your host Chris Caluse.

[00:01:22] It is June 7th, 2024.

[00:01:25] And this is an Enormocast tweener.

[00:01:28] One of those episodes that come between the regular episodes.

[00:01:31] And now today's tweener is part two of my interview with crack master and former monk

[00:01:38] Didier Barthot.

[00:01:40] So if you have not listened to part one, it's the previous one in the feed.

[00:01:44] Go back and check it out before you listen to this one.

[00:01:47] I'll wait.

[00:01:48] Okay, we're all back.

[00:02:16] We're together.

[00:02:17] Time travel has happened.

[00:02:19] We're all together on the same page.

[00:02:21] Where did we leave Didier in the last episode?

[00:02:24] Well, he'd emerged from the monastery.

[00:02:27] He had reunited on some level with his daughter.

[00:02:30] Saw her for the first time actually.

[00:02:32] Reunited with his former partner, the mother of his daughter.

[00:02:36] And he had returned to climbing.

[00:02:38] Pretty hard actually.

[00:02:40] So on today's episode when we get back to the story, there's more religious revelations

[00:02:44] to be had.

[00:02:46] But this ending part is much more climby.

[00:02:48] We talk about his recent ascent of the Cobra Crack, about the crack of destiny one

[00:02:53] that he did last year.

[00:02:55] That was 514.

[00:02:57] Some other projecting why climbing is important to him.

[00:03:00] So we get a little more climbing today, climbing podcast style.

[00:03:03] And you guys can decide whether Didier did right in the end.

[00:03:07] Does he deserve the second chance that he's been given?

[00:03:10] I like the guy.

[00:03:11] He's my old friend.

[00:03:13] So I think he does.

[00:03:14] But you know, he made some mistakes.

[00:03:18] So what's your level of forgiveness?

[00:03:19] Okay, also, I didn't put any commercials on this one.

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[00:04:49] All right, let's get to it.

[00:04:51] The second half, the finish of the arc of the long and winding tale of Didier Bartheau's

[00:04:58] last 20 years finishes today.

[00:05:02] Enjoy.

[00:05:17] One of the things I put in my notes before we started talking was that, and you

[00:05:21] actually hinted at this earlier in the interview, you know that suddenly when you had that

[00:05:25] epiphany moment, whatever the religious moment, you know, you put it into words earlier.

[00:05:31] You actually said I became a Christian the way I had approached climbing.

[00:05:35] And I actually had a question in here about that because it's like, yeah, there's this

[00:05:38] obsessive person here.

[00:05:40] This, you know, maybe it's somewhere in your personality.

[00:05:43] But, you know, but now now you're back into climbing like 100 percent.

[00:05:48] Do you have a perspective on like, don't let this take over my life again the way it did

[00:05:54] before. I have to like, I have to keep it in this place because, you know, you

[00:05:58] mentioned how you were like when when Thomasina was pregnant, you thought, oh, my

[00:06:03] future was over because I'm just this.

[00:06:06] But now how much do you think about like keeping that space open and like not

[00:06:12] because, I mean, it would be a real shame if all of a sudden you became like this

[00:06:15] totally over the top obsessed climber that put everything else out of his life

[00:06:20] again. And it seems like that's that ability is in you somewhere.

[00:06:23] That's such an interesting question.

[00:06:26] Yeah, I was aware of that since day one.

[00:06:30] I start climbing again. But my years as a Christian were not intrinsically

[00:06:37] and 100 percent bad.

[00:06:39] These years as a Christian taught me a bunch of good things.

[00:06:43] And I think Christianity has a bunch of good like humanism perspective to give you.

[00:06:50] And it seems to me, even though it's super tricky to talk about yourself and

[00:06:55] especially on that topic of happiness, but it seemed to me that when I left the

[00:07:00] monastery, I was happy.

[00:07:03] Whatever I was going to do, however things going to turn out in my

[00:07:09] willingness of reconciliation, I was just happy to leave.

[00:07:13] Of course, we need activities to be happy.

[00:07:15] Of course, we need wealth to be happy.

[00:07:18] We cannot be happy. Just be we need friends.

[00:07:21] We need since like I had had learned that thing and I knew that I was going to go back

[00:07:27] into the climbing like 100 percent.

[00:07:31] But in the same time, it was not going to be the same that before because my years into

[00:07:37] Christianism, I didn't throw them everything away.

[00:07:42] I was like, I'm going to keep that.

[00:07:44] You know, just because you learn to be happy without anything as a Christian.

[00:07:49] I mean, at least as a radical Christian.

[00:07:51] And I did spend some happy years there, even though nothing was perfect either.

[00:07:56] But I did experience some really amazing relationship with others.

[00:08:00] And so I was going, OK, I'm going to go back into climbing.

[00:08:03] It's almost like I fell into climbing when I was a kid as a survival mode.

[00:08:12] Like the life was kind of too complicated or seemed too complicated.

[00:08:17] All climbing was just like a rescue bowel.

[00:08:20] And it was like, oh, and you take away climbing.

[00:08:23] I'm drawing. And that's what I lived at least subjectively when I've learned that

[00:08:29] I'm going to be a dad.

[00:08:31] But I was OK, now I know how to swim and I can go climbing.

[00:08:35] And the proof of the concept of that was last year, I broke my wrist.

[00:08:41] Like broke my wrist.

[00:08:43] You don't shut me down.

[00:08:44] And I was even ready to accept the idea of not being able to climb anymore because

[00:08:50] I had a very good friend with me, Fred, who is an orthopedic and he told me, dude,

[00:08:55] if you broke that bone, because before the amary, we didn't know which bone

[00:09:00] I broke, we knew I broke bones because the wrist was like destroyed.

[00:09:04] But he told me, dude, if you broke this one, I hope you didn't broke this one.

[00:09:10] The one that jammed the thumb below the jam.

[00:09:14] Yeah, yeah. So that's a yeah, that's not good for a crack climber.

[00:09:19] Yeah. But I was like, well, you know what?

[00:09:21] It's fine. I mean, if I had to stop climbing because of that injury or climbing

[00:09:27] at high level, it's fine.

[00:09:29] And I did spend an amazing time with the cast not climbing for like three or four

[00:09:34] months. And it was definitely.

[00:09:38] I mean, I think now you can take me climbing away, not going in a monastery

[00:09:43] or not going through a personal crisis and just just happy to live.

[00:09:48] In my mind, I've created this very arc of of this story.

[00:09:52] What you just said is so important to keep in perspective is that, yeah,

[00:09:56] this is all very, very complicated.

[00:09:58] It's ongoing. Your relationships are ongoing.

[00:10:02] You've come back into the climbing community super strong, you know,

[00:10:06] and then the religion part of it, you're you seem to be no longer religious.

[00:10:12] And again, whatever attitudes you have and maybe you can explain those about

[00:10:16] Jesus Christ or Catholicism or anything else, if anything, it's

[00:10:20] you know, it's a philosophical study at this point.

[00:10:23] But maybe explain that because we've gone even further than just leaving the

[00:10:27] monastery at this point. And go ahead and tell me a little bit about that.

[00:10:31] When I left the monastery and stay in the Catholic Church as a priest,

[00:10:37] so in parishes. And so I was in Toulon first and then I moved to Switzerland

[00:10:41] to my hometown and practice as a priest there in the parish.

[00:10:46] But during these years, I study super deeply Christian origins

[00:10:52] because the idea that Jesus was not a religious person,

[00:10:58] but just a humanist was super controversial.

[00:11:03] Not only in my former monastery, but also in the Catholic Church.

[00:11:08] I mean, Jesus cannot be pictured differently as the son of God,

[00:11:12] the savior of every human soul.

[00:11:14] And if you say that Jesus was just a humanist.

[00:11:19] Whose message was just corrupt by the church, like not even decades later.

[00:11:24] I mean, you that doesn't stand for long.

[00:11:26] But but I was like pretty strongly convinced about that,

[00:11:29] except for the fact that the theologians who bring up that idea

[00:11:35] based their interpretation of Christianity on the first century,

[00:11:39] depending which text of the Bible and what you take into this text.

[00:11:45] You can read that in that way.

[00:11:47] But if you don't read it, you can go that way.

[00:11:49] So I wanted to be sure that my Christianity was the real one.

[00:11:53] And the only way to be sure of that, I had to dig myself into the ancient texts

[00:11:58] and the very actually the very interesting first century of Christian common era.

[00:12:03] What our first century.

[00:12:05] So I read I read so much during these three years.

[00:12:10] I mean, it didn't come like a revelation because it comes little by little.

[00:12:14] But I like during the first my first maybe year of reading,

[00:12:18] I I read some theologian or philosopher or ancient historians who just say,

[00:12:24] well, you know what? Actually, everything make more sense.

[00:12:28] The texts themselves make more sense

[00:12:31] if you say that Jesus wasn't was not a historical figure.

[00:12:35] Everything would make more sense if you see Jesus more than the social being

[00:12:41] displayed with visions to some people, especially Paul.

[00:12:45] And then the theology was was made up.

[00:12:49] And then because it's easier if you have a figure,

[00:12:52] it's easier if you have stories with somebody like multiplying fish and and

[00:12:57] healing leprosy.

[00:13:00] And we they created Jesus Christ, the character of Jesus Christ.

[00:13:04] And I was like at the beginning, I was yeah, this is a French theory for sure.

[00:13:10] The existence of Jesus Christ is like bull proof.

[00:13:14] I mean, even though if you are history and non-Christian history,

[00:13:17] if you study Jesus Christ, you see what?

[00:13:20] There is more proof that Jesus was historical than Jules Cesar,

[00:13:24] you know, or like Aristotle or like Platoon or or Alexander the Great.

[00:13:29] That's what they say.

[00:13:31] And I was I did grew up in that kind of mindset.

[00:13:34] So I was like, but in the same time,

[00:13:37] these historians got some good arguments.

[00:13:40] So I wanted to dig into these arguments and I was ready.

[00:13:45] And maybe that's one of my quality to be open to the adventure,

[00:13:50] even though you have to start again from scratch, like exactly from climbing.

[00:13:54] You know, when you start climbing with a sport climbing background,

[00:13:58] you have to start again from scratch.

[00:14:01] You are a far-fought sports climber.

[00:14:03] Welcome in the world of 510 again.

[00:14:06] It's super difficult for like a lot.

[00:14:08] And I think for me, just like, well, doesn't matter very much.

[00:14:13] I'm just open to what it is.

[00:14:15] And so I dig deep into these arguments.

[00:14:19] Took me time because all these historians are aware Americans or British.

[00:14:25] So all these papers were in English.

[00:14:27] My English was even worse than now.

[00:14:30] So it was kind of did it to like study a lot and like reading English super slow,

[00:14:36] translating every word.

[00:14:38] But after three years of like super deep on the PhD level of theology,

[00:14:43] I would say, study of Christian origins,

[00:14:46] I became convinced that Jesus is a made up character.

[00:14:50] Like the gospel stories never happened.

[00:14:54] I was kind of super, super shocked when I discovered that,

[00:14:57] when I was convinced by the force of the arguments.

[00:15:00] But I was like, well, no, I need to go.

[00:15:03] I need to follow that path.

[00:15:04] I mean, I think that's true.

[00:15:05] And so I went to see my bishop and talk to him about it.

[00:15:10] And he told me to take some time to think about it.

[00:15:14] So I spent some time keeping studying that.

[00:15:17] And at some point I say, well, dude, I think we need to call it a day.

[00:15:22] I did not become an atheist.

[00:15:27] I do think there is some kind of like mystery in the world.

[00:15:35] I mean, I don't have any answer anymore.

[00:15:38] And I'm far away from like easy Christian answer for like super complicated questions.

[00:15:44] But I still hold that there is some super complicated questions

[00:15:47] and maybe there is some supernatural entity existing in that world.

[00:15:53] I don't know.

[00:15:53] So this is my point now.

[00:15:55] I mean, I do not try to convince Christians that,

[00:15:59] I mean, and I don't want to fragile the faith of Christians.

[00:16:02] I'm super happy though to share my discoveries.

[00:16:05] And that's also why I wrote a book in French because these fringe so-called

[00:16:11] fringe theory of the non-existence of Jesus is kind of well known in America.

[00:16:16] Not like the English speaking world, but absolutely not known in France.

[00:16:19] It's almost like climbing in Europe back in the days.

[00:16:23] So I wrote a book in French.

[00:16:26] Still haven't find a publisher because it's like...

[00:16:31] I think it's interesting.

[00:16:32] And I think it's interesting.

[00:16:36] And that's my...

[00:16:37] I mean, and I did write that book just like showing the arguments.

[00:16:41] It's just the same text and no esoterical knowledge required.

[00:16:46] Just like, well, look, it makes more sense if you say that Jesus is a made up character.

[00:16:52] Like the texts are so different.

[00:16:56] Yeah, there is so many arguments.

[00:16:57] I don't want to go in there.

[00:16:59] So that's how I would say I left Christianity.

[00:17:03] I'm not to become an atheist, not to become an anti-Christian

[00:17:10] just because it leads me there.

[00:17:12] And I'm kind of happy to have no answers anymore, no psychological securities anymore.

[00:17:19] I'm super happy with that.

[00:17:20] I think the human experience is even more great like that than to be a believer.

[00:17:26] I mean, I'm not criticizing any believers.

[00:17:29] I mean, I needed securities.

[00:17:30] I needed psychological security and I don't want to say it's bad.

[00:17:34] It just...

[00:17:35] It could be bad.

[00:17:37] I have an example here.

[00:17:38] But for most people, having faith is good, I think, and they need it.

[00:17:43] And I don't want to destroy that.

[00:17:44] But to me, I got to the point that, oh, well, I think let's just have faith on me

[00:17:50] and faith the humanity.

[00:17:52] I think it's kind of a big challenge.

[00:17:54] And that's where I stand now.

[00:17:57] It could be like a post-Christian thing if you will, but...

[00:18:00] Or like a post-religious stand without being an atheist either.

[00:18:06] Which I will be very close from atheism, actually.

[00:18:09] And in my behavior, I act like an atheist.

[00:18:12] But I'm open to the idea that maybe there is some spiritual entities, gods...

[00:18:19] Yeah.

[00:18:20] It feels like it's more of an agnosticism.

[00:18:23] Yeah, sort of waiting on something to reveal itself versus making it up.

[00:18:29] I don't have any basis anymore to think about that stuff.

[00:18:32] There is no...

[00:18:34] If you take away sacred scriptures and if you take away subjective spiritual experiences,

[00:18:42] there is nothing to build a thinking about these invisible, so natural powers.

[00:18:50] I mean, maybe there is...

[00:18:51] Well, yeah.

[00:18:53] It certainly must...

[00:18:56] As you were reconciling with Thomasina and the community there,

[00:19:01] and I'm sure these discussions went deep with her.

[00:19:05] But I was curious about that because again, I don't have a relationship with Thomasina.

[00:19:10] We've talked a little bit online.

[00:19:12] I've actually wanted to have her on the show long prior to this.

[00:19:16] Never really followed up too much.

[00:19:18] But I know she has native roots and things like that.

[00:19:22] And so this new attitude probably meshes much better with her

[00:19:29] cosmic thoughts as well.

[00:19:31] Maybe it's helped with the reconciliation.

[00:19:34] Ah, definitely, yeah.

[00:19:39] Maybe built a little trust again.

[00:19:43] And it sounds like that's been what your sort of modern last

[00:19:48] couple years in Squamish has been about is trying to build trust.

[00:19:52] Yeah.

[00:19:54] Speaking of that, I mean, to be a guy who was a super radical Christian

[00:19:59] and doesn't believe anymore that Jesus was real,

[00:20:04] doesn't really have to trust paradoxically.

[00:20:08] Because I mean, just like...

[00:20:09] But what's going to be your next shift, dude?

[00:20:14] Do you have any stability at all or are you going to change your mind every five years?

[00:20:20] And yeah, walk off into the woods as a Buddhist next or something like that?

[00:20:25] Or let's go into the desert again for 40 years or what's next?

[00:20:30] Yeah, so it's...

[00:20:32] I can't say it was maybe more than a challenge than anything else to stand with that idea.

[00:20:39] Even though my life is more coherent and build trust the way I live.

[00:20:45] But that shift is kind of like...

[00:20:51] It's like, well, dude, look at this dude, look at this past.

[00:20:54] And now you say that, well, dude, this dude is kind of like super unstable.

[00:21:00] You can't trust this dude.

[00:21:01] And I cannot stand for myself much on that because I mean, yeah, I mean, that's me.

[00:21:10] I think I learned some stuff and also I think that's good.

[00:21:13] I mean, so I don't want to say it's bad to change your mind and to move.

[00:21:16] So I don't want to quit that openness to change as well.

[00:21:21] But be aware that I have to think twice maybe when...

[00:21:26] Yeah, I have to calm down a bit.

[00:21:30] Calm down.

[00:21:31] As long as you don't suddenly become an aid climber, we're good over here in the climbing world.

[00:21:37] I've really looked at it and free climbing isn't the way I think it's...

[00:21:43] I think pounding in pitons is what's next for me.

[00:21:46] Yeah, I mean, it's like I said, it's an incredible story.

[00:21:49] It's really unusual, I think to go from where you were to

[00:21:55] a complete sort of jettisoning of all that is pretty intense.

[00:22:01] And I mean, you're talking about being happier in all these things, but I mean,

[00:22:07] it still must roil around if you know that word.

[00:22:11] It must sort of bang around in your insides just thinking about all that in the past.

[00:22:17] Yeah, I mean, life is easy for nobody and me included, I mean, for sure.

[00:22:22] But I find some peace and some joy and I just have just sensed that now it's right.

[00:22:30] So back to our relationship, a second email arrived a couple of years ago.

[00:22:34] So I got the first one, you were still a priest, you were out of the monastery.

[00:22:39] I got the second one that was, hey, I'm back in Squamish and Jesus is...

[00:22:45] I'm over it essentially.

[00:22:46] I mean, you explained it to a certain extent in a long email,

[00:22:49] but it's still just an email.

[00:22:51] And that was like a couple of years ago.

[00:22:53] And then back to this modern versus when we first met, now the news keeps up with you.

[00:23:01] You're on Instagram, all of a sudden I could kind of like now here he is and

[00:23:05] I could follow what you're doing.

[00:23:06] And the first thing that really strikes me is you send that like heinous crack.

[00:23:12] The main thing I was surprised at is like, how were you the guy that found that after

[00:23:17] all these years and sent it?

[00:23:19] But what was that route called?

[00:23:21] It was up on the top of the chief.

[00:23:22] Are you Dormico, kid?

[00:23:25] No, I don't.

[00:23:28] I named it Crack of Destiny.

[00:23:30] Oh right, that's right, the Crack of Destiny.

[00:23:33] Sorry, I just couldn't recall it at this moment.

[00:23:35] I have a poster of it, I swear.

[00:23:39] But yeah, I mean, and for me, I was like, holy shit,

[00:23:42] he's not just back but he's like really back.

[00:23:46] Yeah, that was an exciting story too.

[00:23:49] Yeah, like you find this crack or someone introduces it to you.

[00:23:52] It's been kind of half climbed, tried.

[00:23:55] Just give us like the very brief story of that.

[00:23:57] For sure, it deserves a story because it's actually kind of great.

[00:24:01] So moved to Squamish two years ago and of course in my mind and in the

[00:24:09] conversation with a bunch of climbers was the Cobra crack.

[00:24:12] I mean, Didier is back into climbing.

[00:24:15] Did he gonna go try to climb finally the Cobra crack?

[00:24:20] And I've been asking that and myself, of course,

[00:24:24] and also like moving to Squamish.

[00:24:26] I was like, did you there?

[00:24:27] I mean, I didn't came to Squamish for that.

[00:24:29] And I came to like rebuild and restart the family relationship.

[00:24:34] But of course, I mean, that was in my mind.

[00:24:37] But I was like, well, but maybe just takes you time.

[00:24:43] Maybe all you know from Squamish is your experience in 2005.

[00:24:49] It was two months of rain and you've been stuck in that forest during that crack.

[00:24:54] Maybe start a new relationship with Squamish.

[00:24:58] Take some time, do some full walk around.

[00:25:03] And maybe there is something else.

[00:25:05] Maybe I didn't want to rush into the Cobra crack.

[00:25:09] I just wanted to build a new relationship with Squamish.

[00:25:13] Also, I'm keeping in mind that the end with the Cobra crack was not

[00:25:17] like a positive one because you had the rain and you got injured.

[00:25:22] Yeah.

[00:25:22] An interesting perspective is that it was a bad time those last days around the Cobra crack.

[00:25:30] Sure.

[00:25:31] Yeah. Anyway, go ahead.

[00:25:32] But not bad enough to be disgusting, to be like over.

[00:25:38] Right.

[00:25:38] No, I was like, but yeah.

[00:25:42] So I did buy the new guidebook, just went to climb on by the new guidebook and look at the

[00:25:49] chief pictures.

[00:25:51] And then also, I did have some, yeah, just like walk to find maybe like look

[00:25:57] at the cracks and stuff because I was obviously looking at cracks.

[00:26:00] I mean, that's my passion for sure.

[00:26:05] But one picture in the guidebook is a picture of Tahirul on the third peak called North Star,

[00:26:12] which is an amazing 13b, Tahirul.

[00:26:16] But just on the left, there is a splitter crack in a vertical wall.

[00:26:21] And I was like, holy shit, this is amazing.

[00:26:24] And just like, okay, nothing in the guidebook.

[00:26:28] Not many friends around to ask about it because I did not have much friends around.

[00:26:33] But I said, well, let's have a go and let's have a look.

[00:26:36] And it's probably too thin.

[00:26:40] And that's why nobody climbed it because looks like a vertical wall, perfect splitter.

[00:26:45] The reason nobody climbing is most likely to be that's too thin.

[00:26:49] I mean, you never can really tell when you see a photo or like when you see a wall,

[00:26:53] a crack from away, if the widest of the cracks.

[00:26:56] So I went there to get to that climb.

[00:27:00] You need to walk to the third peak of the chief and then take like a wrap down.

[00:27:04] And then I was like, holy shit, this is not a vertical wall.

[00:27:09] This is a 30 degree overhanging wall.

[00:27:13] And the crack is actually a perfect finger crack.

[00:27:17] And I was like, oh my God, this is beyond dream.

[00:27:21] Like for crack climber passionate, this is like an Indian Creek splitter,

[00:27:27] a top of the chief on the 30 degree overhang crack.

[00:27:32] Like crazy, like definitely I was like blown away.

[00:27:37] And then I started to fix the line, rope solo a bunch of days, find the moves and stuff.

[00:27:43] And kind of talk to some climbers.

[00:27:46] And then the story is that Will Stanhope, Ben Harder and Sonny Drutter,

[00:27:53] all of these dudes have seen this crack and knew about this crack.

[00:27:58] But when Will Stanhope tried it near the top of the crack,

[00:28:03] when the crack go right back into the dihedral of North Star,

[00:28:07] the crack thinks down to like very thin crack.

[00:28:10] And on the left of it, there were like an undercling line

[00:28:15] who makes possible to avoid this kind of like seemingly impossible

[00:28:21] reaching to the right crack into some kind of like sport climbing undercling stuff.

[00:28:27] And Will Stanhope did some try on that, but broke the undercling.

[00:28:33] And then the myth went that, oh yeah, this crack is amazing,

[00:28:38] but it doesn't go, it's impossible to go right.

[00:28:42] And the way to go left, it's not possible anymore because Will broke the undercling.

[00:28:47] So yeah, it's too bad.

[00:28:50] But so yeah, we know there is this crack.

[00:28:52] I didn't know anything about that story and just find a way to make like a karate

[00:28:58] kick to the right in order to reach the dihedral.

[00:29:01] Did the moves, did all the moves maybe the first couple of days on it

[00:29:07] and then didn't stop going up there and spend 30 days the first year.

[00:29:13] And last year I did a couple of days and I did a send.

[00:29:17] And it was amazing.

[00:29:18] It was really amazing.

[00:29:19] Yeah, it sounds like a fit in.

[00:29:21] I mean, you're like, again, you're sort of this, or at least in your mind,

[00:29:26] you feel a little bit like this pariah, this exile in Squamish.

[00:29:31] I mean, how did going up there on top of the chief on your own, on a fixed line,

[00:29:38] become a meditation, become sort of therapy for you is what I'm imagining.

[00:29:44] That's also very interesting because my former experience, my 2005 experience in Squamish was

[00:29:51] I was the star.

[00:29:52] I was the rising star, like camera man.

[00:29:55] And it was a big, it wasn't like, I mean, at the base of the Cobra Crack,

[00:30:00] it wasn't rare that maybe 10, 15 people were there cheering up,

[00:30:06] like two camera man up there, bunch of fixed lines.

[00:30:09] You know, I was like, people knew about me, like all over the town.

[00:30:13] And I kind of also wanted to start over my relationship with Squamish on the total opposite.

[00:30:21] I'm just going to rub solo my thing by myself.

[00:30:25] I didn't talk about that crack much.

[00:30:28] I mean, I didn't hide that neither.

[00:30:30] I mean, but I was just by myself, yeah, spending time like revisiting the

[00:30:36] kind of like fake glory from the day to like, just like humble, just working approach,

[00:30:44] no camera man, no, no chatting as well because nobody tried it.

[00:30:50] Just like, was just amazing.

[00:30:53] Yeah.

[00:30:53] I mean, to me it was, yeah, maybe healing, maybe also, yeah, start anew and

[00:31:02] that's cool also because you can say that was that also what I

[00:31:06] my interpretation also when I was stopped climbing is like,

[00:31:10] I did not practice climbing in a super good way sometime, you know, just being like a star.

[00:31:17] So my medication to that is going to stop climbing.

[00:31:22] That's not very, I mean, it's way better and deeper to like, no,

[00:31:28] I'm going to keep climbing, but definitely I'm going to work on myself

[00:31:33] and build a new relationship.

[00:31:35] I do think that social media, being part of a movie, being part of a podcast, whatever

[00:31:42] give you publicly, it's not bad.

[00:31:46] Interestingly, it's just the way you use it could be bad.

[00:31:49] Yeah.

[00:31:49] It was amazing to go just by myself, like away from any radar, except maybe the radar

[00:31:56] of criticism, which I was like, okay, that's fine.

[00:32:02] It wasn't easy.

[00:32:03] Yeah, it wasn't easy.

[00:32:06] I needed to go through that.

[00:32:07] Yeah.

[00:32:07] Two questions then.

[00:32:08] One, the first one is, you know, without going too deep into revealing private things

[00:32:17] about Thomasina and your daughter, which, you know, we've done a little bit here,

[00:32:22] but where do you stand now?

[00:32:25] What is your feeling with your relationships there?

[00:32:28] This, you know, this primary goal of why you came to Squamish was to find a way

[00:32:34] of some level to have a relationship with them.

[00:32:38] I think it's turned out quite a bit different than you thought or maybe not.

[00:32:41] So, yeah, what's your standing at this moment?

[00:32:44] We did have a lot of crisis with Thomasina.

[00:32:47] I think we are two very passionate people, so we did have a lot of crisis.

[00:32:55] But I think we have a really good relationship now.

[00:32:59] And yeah, a relationship who gives loves and help to each other.

[00:33:04] And I mean, it's gold.

[00:33:06] It's definitely gold.

[00:33:08] Even though, I mean, like every kind of relationship, I mean, it's difficult, fragile,

[00:33:15] needs to put the work on it.

[00:33:17] And also big adventure.

[00:33:20] I mean, yeah, nobody knows the end, the outcome.

[00:33:25] I mean, but we, yeah, we have a, I mean, it's amazing.

[00:33:30] And with my daughter, well, nothing can,

[00:33:37] nothing can

[00:33:45] replace it.

[00:33:49] The time, time is like in its time, in its time and nothing, no tricks,

[00:33:57] no books, no schools exist to avoid the vanity.

[00:34:03] There's only time.

[00:34:05] Time and spending time together.

[00:34:08] And it's a huge taming.

[00:34:12] And we did not even start from scrap, you know, we start from,

[00:34:18] I don't know, like bunch of light years.

[00:34:21] Yeah.

[00:34:21] Yeah.

[00:34:22] Like, yeah, we, yeah.

[00:34:25] So, but that being said, I mean, my daughter is an incredible person.

[00:34:30] She, yeah, yeah, and I think I'm lucky beyond anything that,

[00:34:51] yeah, that I'm the father of this person.

[00:34:55] And that in some way that I haven't, but it's like a second chance or like,

[00:35:00] it's unbelievable.

[00:35:01] I think it's my, it's the best treasure or like, I don't know.

[00:35:06] It's, it's, it's, it's beyond, it's beyond words.

[00:35:09] I mean, I didn't know that it's beyond words and it's not, it's crazy.

[00:35:15] Yeah.

[00:35:16] Everything stay, everything needs to be, I miss the train.

[00:35:20] I miss the train.

[00:35:21] Everything has to be built like, and maybe it won't go very far.

[00:35:26] I have no idea.

[00:35:27] I have no expectation either.

[00:35:28] I don't, I don't, I don't ask for anything.

[00:35:32] I, but I'm just there open to

[00:35:37] Russian ship, helping her to grow in this life and give her, you know,

[00:35:44] what a dad usually give.

[00:35:46] Also, sometimes I feel a bit illegitimate how lucky I can, I mean,

[00:35:54] I don't deserve that.

[00:35:56] And I have that and I don't know why.

[00:35:59] Cause so many other people in the world don't have these kind of like chains.

[00:36:05] I do feel, yeah, sometime I don't show up with that cause it's a,

[00:36:10] I know it's rare and I know it's a gift that not many people have.

[00:36:16] And I'm very humbled with that.

[00:36:18] All right.

[00:36:20] Let's, let's finish up here because this is a climbing podcast.

[00:36:24] Let's finish up with some climbing.

[00:36:26] The final, the stage we're at anyway, not the final stage.

[00:36:30] The stage right anyways is the Cobra crack did get climbed

[00:36:34] and that's been big news in the last few days.

[00:36:37] DJ got the Cobra?

[00:36:38] What?

[00:36:42] Yeah.

[00:36:43] People know.

[00:36:45] Like I said, in the olden times we would have had to wait for the climbing magazine

[00:36:48] to come out like two months later to find out about it.

[00:36:51] But people know.

[00:36:54] Yeah.

[00:36:54] So just tell the story that I've actually heard a little bit.

[00:36:57] I had a little communication with your belayer a couple of days ago and yeah,

[00:37:03] and people are psyched and well also just to put in perspective,

[00:37:08] we've talked about your feelings about coming back to Squamish

[00:37:11] and whether the community there wouldn't, you know,

[00:37:13] how they would feel about you and, but also the climbing world, you know?

[00:37:17] And obviously they don't all know these stories,

[00:37:20] but by and large the climbing world is happy to have you back.

[00:37:23] And, you know, clearly they're psyched and so that must feel pretty good too.

[00:37:28] So tell us the story of the lead up in the day.

[00:37:33] Yeah, but let me start with what you just said.

[00:37:36] I mean, I am overwhelmed by the amount of messages I got from people from all over the

[00:37:44] world. The joy in the climbing community that creates that when I climbed the Cobra,

[00:37:51] I mean it's well, let me maybe just take these to thank you all guys like girls as well.

[00:37:59] I mean, I am so touched by all the messages I got from,

[00:38:05] I'm so touched and yeah, thank you so much.

[00:38:09] It's crazy.

[00:38:10] I'd say I'm glad I inspired you guys and I'm honoured and yeah, it's crazy.

[00:38:17] So let me start from last year.

[00:38:19] I did climb Crack of Destiny on right point.

[00:38:23] It was for me, it was really, really huge.

[00:38:27] Did that by myself.

[00:38:29] I did have a friend of mine who recorded,

[00:38:32] take some pictures and take some footage from the climb.

[00:38:36] But I mean, it wasn't like a big show.

[00:38:39] But then I was like, okay, so now it's time to me to go back on the Cobra.

[00:38:45] And I was so fit last year.

[00:38:47] It was on my first day, I was already able to make burns

[00:38:53] and felt like the entire route felt super accessible.

[00:38:58] I didn't want it to be filmed also.

[00:39:00] So it was kind of stressful because a lot of people wanted to shoot the ascent,

[00:39:06] but I was just struggling to say no,

[00:39:09] keeping in that kind of mindset of changing the way of climbing from 2005 and now.

[00:39:17] And also so much pressure from myself.

[00:39:20] I don't know why it was unrational.

[00:39:23] I was like waking up in the morning super stressed.

[00:39:28] I mean, I don't know why.

[00:39:31] So and it wasn't ideal for climbing at all.

[00:39:34] But yeah, and after the third day on the climb,

[00:39:38] I took a mega, mega whipper from above the lip and got a nasty fall on the slab.

[00:39:48] For people who know the Cobra Crank, there's at some point a ledge

[00:39:52] where you can have a no-hands stand because it's a slab.

[00:39:56] And I hit the slab underneath that ledge.

[00:40:00] And also I kind of twisted my fall.

[00:40:03] Didn't get to put my feet to absorb the shock, but I had to put my hands

[00:40:09] and my hands like broke.

[00:40:11] I mean, it was like nasty multiple fracture.

[00:40:16] Fortunately enough, didn't have to go to surgery, but like damn.

[00:40:21] And I was like, what the fuck?

[00:40:24] What the fuck does it mean?

[00:40:27] Why the Cobra is so, I mean,

[00:40:30] it was almost like everything I experienced with that climb was just obstacle.

[00:40:35] Was just like pain, bad luck, you know, whether it's just like the weather,

[00:40:41] whether it's my knee, whether now it's just like a fall.

[00:40:45] And I never took that fall particularly, but I always thought,

[00:40:50] and I mean, I never heard any climber talking about something different.

[00:40:55] I always thought the fall was just intimidating, just like big fall in the air.

[00:41:01] But then easy catch.

[00:41:02] I mean, it's so overhanging, there's no risk at all.

[00:41:05] And that's why I just went for the jog at the end because I was just like,

[00:41:09] yeah, I know I'm above the leap.

[00:41:11] I know the last piece of gear is far away,

[00:41:13] but I also know that it's just going to fly in the air.

[00:41:16] And when it turned out that I did fly in the air, like super, super for a long, long time.

[00:41:23] And also twisted and it was like what?

[00:41:28] Like super hard, super hard and weird.

[00:41:31] But as I said also before, I mean, that's fine.

[00:41:35] I mean, I'm okay.

[00:41:37] Life is still good.

[00:41:38] Didn't came to Squamish to finally send my nemesis because Cobra was never been my nemesis.

[00:41:46] I mean, it's just like maybe the beautiful crack in the world.

[00:41:49] That's it.

[00:41:50] And just some kind of weird relationship with it for sure, but not to the point

[00:41:55] that he became a nemesis.

[00:41:56] But a bunch of questions, but also life is fine without Cobra.

[00:42:00] Well, hold on.

[00:42:01] Did you think that maybe there was like an old timer there going like, oh shit,

[00:42:06] here it goes again.

[00:42:08] He's going to disappear again.

[00:42:13] I did wrote that on a social media post.

[00:42:15] I did.

[00:42:17] I wrote like, but dude, don't be scared.

[00:42:19] I won't go back in the monastery.

[00:42:21] Right, right, right.

[00:42:22] Okay, cool.

[00:42:23] Yeah, it wasn't.

[00:42:24] Yeah, the mindset was totally different and yeah.

[00:42:27] So you take some time off.

[00:42:28] Yeah, take some time with that.

[00:42:30] And so the season passed, no climbing at all during the Squamish season last year

[00:42:36] and being able to climb a little bit at the end of the season, but easy stuff.

[00:42:40] And then I decided during the winter to like train again, go back in shape to

[00:42:47] eventually climb the Cobra when the Cobra is going to be dry.

[00:42:51] And it wasn't easy to make that move because one, I do have a, I found a lot of new

[00:42:59] projects in Squamish.

[00:43:00] Like there is a bunch of, not maybe not a bunch, but like five or six, like really

[00:43:05] cool first ascent, speed of cracks to do in Squamish still now.

[00:43:10] And I found them and I've been playing on them a little bit already.

[00:43:14] And it's so much exciting and fun to go playing on new projects than to go back

[00:43:20] on the Cobra, at least for me.

[00:43:22] Like Cobra was almost like a chore, you know, even though it's fun to climb,

[00:43:27] even though it's beautiful, but it's just like, whoa, Cobra has been so

[00:43:34] hard to me in a way, like never offering like good weather, good luck or whatever.

[00:43:39] So, but I was like, okay, but I need to go there.

[00:43:41] And then also the second reason is what if I fail or what if I get stuck in my life?

[00:43:49] I thought actually about Sisypus, you know, Sisypus going always back at top of his

[00:43:54] mountain with his rock.

[00:43:55] Am I right to decide to go back on that Cobra and to spend maybe the summer on

[00:44:01] the Cobra not being able to spend time on your projects or somewhere else?

[00:44:07] But is it right?

[00:44:10] You know, and if I fail, I'm going to be like ridiculized because maybe now

[00:44:16] there is like tons of climbers who've done it.

[00:44:18] So if you don't do it, I mean, it's just like, I mean, it was kind of hard.

[00:44:26] And also I decided this year to film it with Real Rock because I thought it would be

[00:44:34] actually good for the climbing community and sharing the passion and to be filmed.

[00:44:40] But I was like, well, okay, so I agreed to be filmed.

[00:44:44] But what if it turns out to be like in 2005 where you fell like 20 times close to

[00:44:53] the sand but never sand and everybody's stressed out and I'm stressed out.

[00:45:00] But I was like, but okay, I think I need to do that.

[00:45:05] And also I was like, but the condition to do that would be for the cameraman,

[00:45:10] I wanted like no intrusivity.

[00:45:14] Like, I'm okay if there is somebody up there with a camera, but I don't want

[00:45:18] somebody filming me around, you know, making like a documentary.

[00:45:22] I was like, no way.

[00:45:23] I'm just going to climb with friends and if you want the jug on the rope,

[00:45:26] that's fine.

[00:45:28] But shut up and no expectation as well.

[00:45:33] Just like, and the second thing was like I needed to be able to place a new piece of gear.

[00:45:41] And especially because last year when I took that nasty fall,

[00:45:45] Thomasina and my daughter was at the base of the Cobra and watched me getting hurt

[00:45:53] and it wasn't fun.

[00:45:54] It wasn't fun at all for nobody that day, especially like for Britney.

[00:46:00] She gave me the catch and I'm so sorry.

[00:46:03] It was such a bad experience for everybody and I was like,

[00:46:07] if I'm going to go give some burns again on that Cobra,

[00:46:11] I need to be able to place a new piece of gear.

[00:46:15] Otherwise, I don't want to risk again to make people feel bad again.

[00:46:21] So first day was just a month ago.

[00:46:24] Super surprised that the Cobra was dry.

[00:46:26] Went up there with my buddy Andrew who also tried the Cobra and Andrew,

[00:46:30] hope you got it this year.

[00:46:32] Like also, I hope next month she'll do a podcast with you like talking about her scent.

[00:46:39] First day last month with Andrew and find a way to place new piece of gear

[00:46:44] in the headwall.

[00:46:46] And for the record, it's kind of funny because

[00:46:49] I placed the piece of gear with infamous mono finger lock.

[00:46:54] So it's really cool.

[00:46:56] And yeah, I give some burns when three more times and two days ago, send it.

[00:47:06] But also so interesting.

[00:47:09] Two days ago in the morning, I woke up super stressed like usual.

[00:47:15] And I was like, I tried to think about that stress.

[00:47:18] And it seemed to me that it was like because I was telling myself unconsciously that

[00:47:25] today it's going to be the day.

[00:47:28] And I told myself that since 2005, like for so many days,

[00:47:34] today is going to be the day because you're so close.

[00:47:37] And yeah, it could happen.

[00:47:40] And I was like, oh, maybe that's why I'm so stressful because unconsciously

[00:47:45] I'm thinking about I'm hoping that today is going to be the day.

[00:47:49] So I took my diary journal and wrote it down.

[00:47:54] Today, it is not going to be the day.

[00:47:57] It is not going to be today.

[00:48:00] Today is just going to be another day, giving some burns, getting some gubbies,

[00:48:06] having some really fun time climbing this Peter crack

[00:48:09] and having some super fun time with my amazing friends.

[00:48:13] And I took some time to tell myself and believe myself that today

[00:48:20] it is not going to be the day, like empty expectation.

[00:48:25] And it kind of worked.

[00:48:27] I cannot say take away all stress, but I was kind of like just having fun up there.

[00:48:34] And just had fun.

[00:48:36] Send it on my first go.

[00:48:39] And it was yeah, it was over.

[00:48:42] I thought about that last year.

[00:48:44] Last night, do you know the movie Grand Hog Day?

[00:48:49] And just like, well, that's actually the feeling I had.

[00:48:53] That's actually what I've experimented.

[00:48:55] Just like, wow, it's over this, this eternal day

[00:49:02] where I'm failing close to the close to the top is over.

[00:49:07] It's like, it's like a new start somewhere.

[00:49:10] It was crazy.

[00:49:11] And then as I say, just at the beginning of that topic,

[00:49:15] so many messages from so many climbers.

[00:49:20] It was crazy and I was so touched.

[00:49:22] I think my past got publishing stories more than 200 times.

[00:49:27] And it was just giant.

[00:49:29] The very same night also, an improv party was organized

[00:49:34] at the base of the chief in the middle with friends,

[00:49:37] drink some beers, smoke some cigarettes and stuff.

[00:49:40] And it was so much joy in the climbing community.

[00:49:46] Like coming from nowhere.

[00:49:48] And even like maybe, yeah, maybe think why it's way better like that

[00:49:56] than if I would have sent like 20 years ago.

[00:49:59] It's way better now, just way better.

[00:50:01] Like cool.

[00:50:02] Yeah, it's amazing.

[00:50:04] And so for the, to my perspective,

[00:50:09] this last month just been, Cobra was just dry.

[00:50:13] For the first time, maybe the Cobra was just like benevolent with me.

[00:50:17] I don't want to go too mystical of that.

[00:50:22] Yeah, don't get us, don't make us nervous.

[00:50:26] Awesome Didier.

[00:50:31] Well, I usually just trail this thing off,

[00:50:34] but I just want to say it's been a joy to reconnect with you personally.

[00:50:39] Thanks for your candor.

[00:50:40] I didn't have any advice other than just remember that

[00:50:43] what you talked about feeling lucky and getting a second chance.

[00:50:48] So congratulations on the Cobra crack.

[00:50:51] But I don't know if congratulations is right for everything else,

[00:50:54] but I will say sort of well done.

[00:50:58] Thanks, bro.

[00:50:59] Thanks.

[00:50:59] Thank you so much.

[00:51:01] Thank you all guys as well.

[00:51:38] All right folks.

[00:51:40] Yeah, need a cigarette for those two.

[00:51:44] Did you listen to him back to back?

[00:51:46] Maybe I should have just left it as one big one.

[00:51:49] I don't know.

[00:51:50] I think it was hard to listen in one big sitting.

[00:51:52] Didier was out in his van actually outside of a climbing gym there in Squamish.

[00:51:56] And then, you know, his accent's thick enough.

[00:51:59] You got to kind of figure out what he's saying once in a while.

[00:52:01] Anyhow, thanks a lot to Didier for doing that.

[00:52:04] Being so candid, being so open.

[00:52:07] I mean, it's a hard thing to admit when you've made a lot of mistakes like that.

[00:52:10] Kind of reminded me of AA actually,

[00:52:12] where you got to sort of ask people for forgiveness.

[00:52:15] I think that's part of the process here

[00:52:17] is opening up and letting the world know what happened to Didier during those years.

[00:52:22] Judge him how you will.

[00:52:25] Cool.

[00:52:26] All right, climbing, man.

[00:52:28] I have lots of fun stuff coming up.

[00:52:29] I'm going to 10 Sleep next week for a week with the family.

[00:52:33] So look for us out there if you're up there.

[00:52:36] Then it's off to Wisconsin for me and the boy.

[00:52:39] And actually, my parents live in northern Wisconsin

[00:52:42] and I've fared it out a little bit of bouldering up there.

[00:52:45] Not too far from their place, actually.

[00:52:48] And I'm not a huge boulderer, but you know, you take what you can get.

[00:52:52] And I have it on authority that at least a couple of spots are pretty good.

[00:52:56] You know, it's mosquito season.

[00:52:58] June, it's kind of rough, but I'll make do.

[00:53:01] Then get back, hit Lander, go into the climbing festival.

[00:53:05] I do not have an official duty there.

[00:53:07] They do not pay me to advertise for the festival.

[00:53:10] I just like that festival.

[00:53:11] Tons of friends that have been involved over the years.

[00:53:14] It's a good time in Lander that time of year.

[00:53:16] A little hot, but you know, the climbing is kind of secondary.

[00:53:19] At a climbing festival, I've gone on record many times saying that.

[00:53:24] But yeah, it's fun.

[00:53:25] Not too far from my house.

[00:53:26] So I'll be up there hanging around.

[00:53:29] I think at least one member of the normal cast entourage is going to join me.

[00:53:35] And if you've ever hung around with us at the International Climbing Festival

[00:53:39] there in Lander or maybe in your array or somewhere else,

[00:53:42] you know that that can go off the rails pretty quickly.

[00:53:46] It's almost designed that way, frankly.

[00:53:49] Getting a little old for that shit, but we'll see what I can bring to the party.

[00:53:53] Okay, off the rifle this weekend with the boy.

[00:53:57] Opening rifle season by camping out out there.

[00:54:01] Got to get packed up.

[00:54:02] So I hope you're enjoying June, the long days, the warm nights.

[00:54:08] Don't forget to check your knots.

[00:54:18] Jesus is a friend of mine.

[00:54:20] Jesus is my friend.

[00:54:22] Jesus is a friend of mine.

[00:54:24] I have a friend in Jesus.

[00:54:26] Jesus is a friend of mine.

[00:54:28] Jesus is my friend.

[00:54:39] Jesus is a friend of mine.

[00:54:41] He taught me how to live my life as it should be.

[00:54:45] I can tell you that he's one who will never leave you alone.

[00:54:49] Jesus is a friend of mine.

[00:54:51] Jesus is a friend of mine.

[00:54:53] He taught me how to live my life as it should be.

[00:55:02] I can tell you that he's one who will never leave you flat.

[00:55:33] The teacher's told me that's where it ends.