Enormocast 324: Ines Papert – Only One Life

[00:00:00] You are listening to the Enormocast.

[00:00:31] TikTok innocently appears in September, and we remain blithely unaware of what a social media climbing influencer is. But, perhaps the most groundbreaking climbing leap in 2016, at least according to this commercial, the introduction of the Sportiva Squama. So futuristic, it remains cutting edge 10 years on. No one thought a high-performing shoe could handle all terrain and feel this good doing it.

[00:00:59] Yet there it was, in our hands, on our feet, and nestled in our souls like a little baby bird quietly cooing. And to mark this monumental moment in climbing history, Sportiva has introduced a celebratory color scheme for the 2026 Squama, while retaining its essential nature as the baddest shoe in the land. So go back to the future and head over to sportivana.com or your favorite local shop, and check out any permutation of the legendary Squama.

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[00:02:44] Hello and welcome to the Enormocast. This is your host, Chris Caloose. It is May 19th, 2026, about 11 a.m. here in Colorado. And this is episode 324 of the EnormaCast. A reunion interview with Ines Papert. Always fun pushing those European names through this very American mouth of mine.

[00:03:11] Anyway, Inez is back after 10 years away from the EnormaCast. We did her first EnormaCast in 2016. Very much back in the day one. We climbed an Indian Creek together and then sat down for an interview. And then we went over to Green River in Utah and we tried to put her on the train. But you know, if you go to the train station in Green River, Utah, there's not much going on there. It's a lot of chain link fence.

[00:03:37] It turns out it is possible to catch the Amtrak there, but we didn't really know how to do it. So we ended up at Ray's Tavern wondering what we were going to do. Started talking to a couple dudes or they started talking to us. And by the end of the conversation and the burgers and beers, Inez got in the car with these guys and got a ride to Salt Lake City. And I went home to Colorado. She made it just fine. Got back home to Germany. In the interim 10 years, I've paid attention to what Inez was up to.

[00:04:07] We met up a couple times, most recently at the Arcterics Academy in Squamish last year or the year before. And now we connected via the internet to her home in Bavaria. When we first talked, Inez was an excellent and well-known rock climber, alpinist, ice climber. But now I think she's achieved legend status.

[00:04:33] She's gone on to add guiding to her resume to give back to a younger generation of alpinists coming up in Germany and in Europe. And through this all, through her entire career as a professional climber and almost as a climber at all, she's been a mom. She was a mom climber before it was cool. No, of course, I'm just kidding. It's always been cool. But we haven't always recognized it as such. But not only was she a mom, she was a single mom.

[00:05:02] And it turns out she's raised a well-adjusted kid who's now in his 20s, who loves the mountains, loves the outdoors, loves climbing, and loves his mom. So mission accomplished. If you've been listening to the NormaCast the last couple years, I've been enjoying doing these. This climbing podcast has been around long enough to reconnect with some of these people after a pretty significant amount of time. 10, 12, 13 years.

[00:05:29] A lot changes in that amount of time, both in climbing and in life. So I hope you enjoy this quote-unquote follow-up with Ines Papert. If you're a very serious climber, and I think you are, why on God's green earth are you red-pointing your hardest sport routes in a harness designed for big walls or big routes or all-day missions? Extra gear loops, hull loops, and padding for that three-sig aid belay on the captain are

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[00:06:54] Go to ArcTeryx.com or your favorite no-nonsense gear shop and check out the lightest thing to come to sport climbing since that 7C you somehow managed to haunt side after drinking table one all night and column nose. I'm not allowed to move my arm for another three weeks. Okay. So was it an injury? Was it just use? Did you have surgery?

[00:07:23] Tell us a little bit about that because when I got in touch with you to run this interview, we've been trying to get it done for a little while, but you finally were like, hey, I'm injured. I can't climb. I have time. So it works out for me, but not so good for you. So fill us in on what's going on with that. Well, yeah. I'm glad we made it work finally. But I knew I had the surgery getting done.

[00:07:48] And yeah, the time before was just crazy busy to finish all the things that I could do with both hands. But yeah, now since three weeks, I'm suffering after shoulder surgery, rotator cuff. Like it's a typical climber's thing. And in German, we have a saying. I'm not sure if you're saying this in English. Where there is planning, there's also savings. I climbed a lot in my life.

[00:08:15] And I've been most of the time healthy and always careful to my body. But yeah, at some point it hits you, of course. It sucks, but it's also a test to become more patient towards myself and towards other people. That's really interesting because so the other part of this is this is, you know, a follow-up interview. And I use what I call podcast air quotes because no one can see me doing it.

[00:08:44] But, you know, a follow-up from 10 years ago. You know, 2016 was when we talked the first time and put out an interview. And I've been doing these lately, these follow-ups. It's an interesting thing to have a podcast for over 15 years to where you can come back and talk to people who are in this whole different part of life. Because 10, 12, 13, whatever years is a long time, especially in climbing.

[00:09:11] So it's interesting to talk, but I always go back and listen to the first one to prepare for this because I, you know, have no recollection of what we talked about. But when I kind of pushed you for like a weakness that you have or a thing that maybe you were working on, you actually mentioned patience. So it's interesting that you pick it up again 10 years later. I'm still not much more patient than back in 2016. But yeah, I'm growing.

[00:09:40] I'm still learning. Yeah. I mean, you know. And I'm still learning and climbing. I mean, this is like the past 10 years were just flying. Looking back to where I have been, with who I have been, which places of the world. And that's a lot I can benefit from right now. Like, and also it helps me, you know, recovering from this shoulder surgery.

[00:10:08] And by knowing this is going to happen again, maybe in a different way, maybe with a different mindset. But climbing is my life. It always has been and it always will be. You know, I keep bringing this interview up, this person I talked to, I'm sure that you know, Caro North.

[00:10:28] An interview with her, which was, you know, she had this kind of revelation of, you know, how she had been doing expeditions one after another, one after another, one after another for a decade. And kind of came up for air and realized just like, I do need some time here. I need to like chill out. And I think about having my son, right, was part of this. Like, everybody's like, oh, it's going to, you know, your climbing life will change. And I'm like, yeah, but you know what?

[00:10:57] I've done a lot of climbing. And, you know, there may be some positive in the break from it. But that's a topic I would like to touch also while we are talking. Because I had my child really early in my life. I was 26. And I didn't have the feeling I have to take a break from climbing. I just did it differently.

[00:11:20] And looking at all those amazing young climbers today that would first accomplish their career and later in their lives think about having children doesn't seem so logical to me. Because we can always handle both if we want. And even if the classic rule setting is a little different, at least where I'm from at the part of the world. I'm in South Germany, Bavaria.

[00:11:49] And apparently people have been talking about me back then, not only positively. Like, I never heard about it. I kind of always did what I felt inside my heart. And I knew I only do it for myself in first plan. But, of course, when you are able to inspire people with what you're doing, it gets another dimension. So I became a professional athlete, even having a child.

[00:12:16] And today I'd say I would never want to have it done differently. Like, that was the perfect timing. Do you mean they were talking negatively like you should have been, you know, home and being a mom and not, like, running around the world? It's not just running around the world. But we all know that what we are doing is there's a lot of risk involved. Oh, sure. Yeah. As a mom, you're not supposed to do that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:46] I think that's an age-old criticism in climbing, you know. And I think, of course, when Allison Hargreaves passed away, that was, like, you know, in the news reports. You know, she was a mom. And, like, I don't think you ever actually hear that quite as much about dads who pass away, men with children who pass away. It's not, like, in the headline, so to speak, if it's even mentioned at all. And we still have to make a change.

[00:13:15] I mean, we are not where I would want to be in this world, like, considering, like, what's the rule of a man in this climbing world and the rule of a woman. So I'm really working on it, talking a lot to my own participants that come to my classes. And we are not just talking about climbing, but, of course, we do climbing.

[00:13:39] And from this kind of passion that we share with climbing, we learn a lot for our normal life, and especially women that usually take themselves not so serious, usually don't understand where their real skills are. And listening to themselves the last. First, everyone else needs to be happy, and then myself. So, yeah, that's a really interesting topic.

[00:14:04] And I'm glad that I'm able to work with women that contact me and that want to grow in climbing, but also as a female in the mountains. That's really interesting perspective. Yeah, this idea that, right, there are places to make everyone around them happy and then afterwards themselves. Yeah, I think that's really common. And at least it's common, especially from earlier generations, certainly.

[00:14:31] But that's not like a healthy, sustainable way to live your life, certainly. I mean, I have quite an ego, I believe, but I still have this empathy and take care a lot about my community here. And it's not just climbers. And, like, my best friends are not even climbers. We love to explore the mountains in different ways together, but there's no talking about climbing, and this is the best. Especially when you have an injury like I have right now.

[00:15:02] Right. Like, there is, you know, climbing is so far away from myself these days, and it's good. It's good for my recovery, and it makes me feel I'm not alone. I'm surrounded by amazing human beings. And, yeah, that's important to all of us, I think, that live in this kind of world and this kind of bubble. Because it can drive you crazy when you can't move around. I mean, I can still walk. I do lots of hiking these days. But that wouldn't be my first choice.

[00:15:31] But I can spend time with my best friends and, yeah, move around. That's a lot. Here I am making you talk about climbing. It's funny. It's okay. I love climbing. It's not that I don't want to talk about it. One thing from that last interview from 10 years ago is you were talking about your son. He was a teenager. I'm not sure exactly what age, which would make him well into his 20s now.

[00:16:00] And it's interesting that you brought this up right away because I have it on my list of things to talk about, too. Because, you know, this last 10 years for you has been it seems like you really kind of exploded. Like you really got after it, especially in the bigger mountains. And I was thinking about what you said about how you had your son early. And then that opened you up, you know, because about this same time was when your son was becoming more and more independent.

[00:16:30] And it looked like really that, oh, wow, you know, here she is at that time in your 40s or late 30s. And all of a sudden you had this like open track to you because you'd done, you know, you'd done your duty as it were. You'd raised the son and he was kind of becoming on his own. So it does the inverse works, you know. You were ready to really explore some of the bigger things that you wanted to do.

[00:16:55] No, today we are sharing climbing together and he's climbing way harder than I do already, at least in rock climbing. Not in ice, but in rock. That's because he's smart. That's what we can help our kids with, to provide them a world. Or to Thomas Huber recently said in an interview, he would provide his children an empty backpack.

[00:17:22] And what kids would fill the backpack with, it's on their own. And so that's actually a really nice picture in front of myself, seeing it this way. Because we all want our kids to do the same as we do, but at the end they have their own decisions. And yeah, it makes me like smiling all the way to my ears to see my son being a happy climber.

[00:17:47] And yeah, having the chance to go climbing together still. Yeah, even though he has his own buddies now, he's on the rocks. But yeah, it's a huge reward. And also like this traveling part I could give him in his childhood.

[00:18:10] Like, I think it was a gift for such a young dude to travel around the globe and see the world and even climb in the Canadian bugaboos as a teenager. I think that was a good gift. And maybe it also makes me feel better. Now, looking back, I think I have been selfish in a way, a lot, leaving him with family and, you know, following my own dreams and paths.

[00:18:38] But on the other hand, I had the time also to go on long trips together and take him around the globe. Yeah, it's cool because you told this awesome story too about him going to Indian Creek, which was really cool. But also you were talking in that about how he wasn't that interested in climbing as a kid. And, you know, as all climbing parents, you're kind of like, okay, well, I got to be hands off and let him find his own way. But, you know, secretly I would love if he started climbing.

[00:19:08] But in that interview, you said he was interested in sport climbing. So it's cool that, like, you just, you waited, you were patient in this case a little bit and let him find it and get into it, you know, leading by example. But it's every time I talk to climbing parents, we're always talking that balance between, like, exposing, pushing a little bit, but not too much kind of a thing.

[00:19:33] So it sounds like whatever formula you maybe accidentally happened upon, it's worked out that, like you said, he's a happy, healthy climber. And I'm, you know, despite that he's climbing with his buddies, he does mention, I'm sure, that his mom's a legend every once in a while. So don't worry about that, I don't think. I don't know. Oh, yeah, he does. You can never make kids becoming a climber.

[00:19:59] You can offer them possibilities and, you know, it happens or it doesn't. So I think the more you push, the higher the chance they don't do it. Right. Especially a teenager. I see a lot of people like parents in the gym pushing their kids so hard and I can see the kids running away from climbing sooner or later. And we have a young team here in the area that they're really strong, but they're not interested in competitions.

[00:20:28] So we've created a team, a climbing team from our alpine club that would climb on the rocks. So it's not as much as possible. They go outside and climbing on rocks and grow as climbers away from being a competitor. And I think this trend should increase and taking kids outside without any pressure of competing or succeeding.

[00:20:57] They will push themselves anyways with each other. And yeah, but competition is just not something for every kid. So let's talk about the last 10 years in your climbing. The most kind of recent media that I saw was this film that you did with Sarah Hueniken, who's been on the show as well. And it was a film about partnerships. It was a little bit of a film about aging. I mean, that was kind of the theme. It was, I think it was called 50-50, right?

[00:21:26] Because you guys had reached that age a little younger than me, actually. And, you know, so I kind of wanted to ask you about, like, what's changed in the last 10 years, if anything, about what you sort of look for in a partner and who you want to go into the mountains with. I think it's just natural to become more discerning about your partners when you're young and you're psyched. You know, anybody who's got a harness, you're like, okay, let's go.

[00:21:55] So, you know, kind of a thing. And we all become a little bit more discerning about who we go into the mountains with, especially also because, you know, as our climbing career goes on, you know, things can sometimes get more serious as you leave the local rocks and you go into the bigger mountains and things like that. So can you maybe talk about a little bit of an evolution that ended up with someone like Sarah having some of these important aspects of what a partner is?

[00:22:21] Hey, with Sarah, to me, it was not as important what we would climb together, but it was important to me that we make it work and that everyone in the team is happy with what we are doing. And because it feels kind of a sisterhood to her. We are sharing a lot of private stuff. We are not just talking about climbing.

[00:22:42] We have got the same passion for climbing ice and mixed with a little bit of a different approach. I kind of prefer the unknown, the total adventure without knowing too much about what I'm doing. Like First Ascent, for example, is always an unknown adventure. You never know what's going to happen.

[00:23:07] And to Sarah, this seems, I'd say, a bit scary. So she would prefer the places she know all about the conditions, all about risk. Of course, with her history of what she experienced in her life, it's absolutely understandable. And it's really incredible to see her coming back and going for it. I mean, she's so strong. Physically, Sarah is way stronger than I am. That's crazy how strong she is.

[00:23:37] Yeah. Like, it's amazing how strong she is. Because watching that video and I, you know, obviously when I interviewed her, I, you know, delved into her history. And it's, I mean, it's astounding how strong she is. She's a training beast. I mean, I can train for projects. But I can always, you know, in projects, I can benefit from what I have a lot.

[00:24:00] And, you know, with my mental kind of skill, that's what people say, I'm able to take out of myself 100%, you know. And she feels safe when she's so far ahead of what she's doing. Like, she's incredibly strong. And, you know, that's also why we are a good team. Because, yeah, when a pitch is more physical, it's her pitch.

[00:24:27] And when a pitch is more mentally engaged, then she would ask me if I can do it. And so it's a really cool partnership. And we allow each other to share fears. We allow each other to share emotions. And, yeah, it's really great to climb with her. And we do have a new appointment already. Not for our 60th birthday, but sooner. Next fall.

[00:24:56] I'm thinking about my 60th already, too. I got some plans. This trip happened because we both wanted to gift ourselves with a special trip. And, yeah, that was the best gift we could do ourselves. Going on a road trip and taking it day by day. And you went to Helmkin Falls, right? Mm-hmm. What did you think of that place? You know, it was really important to Sarah to introduce that place to me. But we didn't hit it the right time. It was too warm.

[00:25:24] It was kind of the most scary thing we did together. And that was interesting because she wasn't as scared as I was. But, yeah, we kept trying to put up our new route. But ended up bailing and running away because of falling rocks. The rock is terrible. And I wish I could have experienced it in good conditions. But, yeah, unfortunately, it never happened. But I also understood that I'm a mountain person.

[00:25:53] I mean, it's a cave in a flat part of the country. And, you know, we've been passing half of the Rockies to get there. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm leaving the mountains to climb in a cave for three weeks. I think I'm more a mountain person. I like to summit, to top out somewhere. And, you know, I get a lot back from this moment standing on top of something.

[00:26:21] It doesn't matter so much about the grade, the difficulty, but I like to top out somewhere. And this entire adventure at a mountain, you know, approaching, spending days in a wall, topping out, summiting, descending. And the entire adventure is for me so still. It's really something I live for and I'm always dreaming about.

[00:26:47] Yeah, there's a kind of an idea I wrote down here as I was watching all the things that you've been doing for the last few years and your approach and what you just said kind of fits into this about like, you know, maybe the mental fortitude that's like my kind of secret weapon or what people say about me. But I think it's totally true. But what do you think about, and this is maybe a tough question, so we'll see where it goes.

[00:27:15] But when you're in the mountains, like, you know, I think we have a meter where, you know, the far left of it, let's say, is logic and the far right of the meter is intuition, which is a lot to do with feelings. And traveling in the mountains safely, but also getting things done has to be sort of a mix of that. Like logically, we should never go into the mountains in the winter, especially or whatever.

[00:27:44] Like we should just stay home where we're safe. But can you at all talk about like where you think you fall in terms of like using logic versus like intuition or feelings about, you know, your ego and what you want to get done and things like that? Does that question make sense at all to you? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I am driven by this beauty of a line, like especially in the winter when ice is forming.

[00:28:13] And, you know, this is something that comes with the experience that you see, that you're able to see the lines that are possibly climbable. And, yeah, connecting the pieces of ice together. Of course, that's not logical to do it in the winter. But to me, it is because the ice offers safer conditions if it's not, you know, avalanche risk involved.

[00:28:42] Ice allows me to move way faster than only in rock. And, yeah, it's just simply a beautiful thing that appears and disappears. And, of course, I'm looking at the mountain for quite a bit before I'm really leaving the ground. And that's actually the most scary part of the time. Like once I start climbing with my team, I feel like, you know, now it's on.

[00:29:11] And there's not this head thing going on anymore. What happened in case this and that. So intuition comes with the experience. I've been always trying to listen to my inner voice back in the days, but I couldn't hear it so well. Now I can hear it really well because the bag is filled with lots and lots of experience. And that's something you cannot train.

[00:29:39] It's like so many also failures, failures not in terms of risking too much, but failures in terms of taking a decision to return in order to survive. And I've been doing that so many times. And earlier in my life, it really hurt way more than it does now. Now it's more like, well, I'm kind of proud about myself. I can give myself always a new chance or come back to another time or try another line. We only have one life.

[00:30:09] And yeah, I think running away is a strength that comes with the years and with age. And that's the good thing in age. You become smarter. Yeah. In another way, you're talking about patience. So, you know, it is working, whatever therapy you're doing around being more patient. Because literally backing off and thinking I'll come back another time is patience. You know, that's what it is, is I'll wait.

[00:30:37] And, you know, the truth is, is that like you can say I'll come back another time. But, you know, there's a – I mean, it's rarely 100% that you will. You know, life moves on. And those expeditions cost a lot of money and a lot of energy. You don't always come back. But you can say that. I never thought about like what in case I'm not succeeding because in best case, I survive. And that's the only important thing.

[00:31:02] And that's maybe one of my best skills that, you know, I don't feel any pressure from anyone or from myself. This is not existing. And I feel really privileged that I don't have this because I see this with many people, especially climbers, dealing with this expectations from outside.

[00:31:24] And I think when you listen to yourself really carefully and you feel like the desire comes from very deep inside your heart, then it's worth to, you know, attempt and to go for it. But if that's not 100% you, but something else, someone else, I don't know, then alpinism is really a dangerous thing to do.

[00:31:49] You mentioned the word empathy earlier in the interview, and it also came up in another couple films that I looked at. You talked about how Sarah has this like empathetic nature and, you know, it makes her a good guide. One of the other features of our original interview was you're realizing that, you know, you had to work on that as far as being a good guide. But, you know, what about in partnerships?

[00:32:15] Like, it seems like I've heard of a lot of conflicts where people are together and one person, you know, is getting nervous or doesn't want to go down. I mean, I've had the only own situations in my life. You know, I always talk about a story where my friend and I were climbing and it was in the Black Canyon and on a, you know, very serious route. And both of us kind of wanted to go down, but neither one of us wanted to say it. And so we kept going for a while.

[00:32:46] Girls don't have that. That's why I prefer sometimes to play with my girls. Yeah, because I finally said it and instantly, I was the one who like broke and said, okay, I'm done. It was like this piton fell out in my hand while I was on this traverse and like, you know, it was the only protection. I was like, I think we're good. And he was instantly like, yes, let's go down. But it was like I had to like break it open.

[00:33:10] Yeah, I think this is one of the most important skills in alpinism and mountain climbing to feel what the other person feels like, you know, without losing lots of words. And maybe that's something women are doing better and we're not so strong in our ego.

[00:33:32] I think listening to people, I've never, ever had this situation that I told my partner I would like to return and my partner would say, no, we keep going. Or the other way around. As soon as one person would ask for a return, that's the answer. That's the only thing you do. There's no other answer. You cannot push someone into a dangerous situation with the chance of succeeding and hopefully surviving. I mean, that's bullshit.

[00:34:00] That's 100% what makes a person a good teammate, in my opinion. Has like being a solo climber been something that ever appealed to you or has it been a part of your life in terms of not necessarily free soloing, but rope soloing or whatever? Or are you a partner type climber? I'm an absolute partner type of climber.

[00:34:26] I enjoy hike and fly myself, biking, but in climbing, I really enjoy sharing the experience. I'm a team person. Yeah. I like small teams. I don't prefer like three, four or five or more people on expeditions, but two, maximum three people is the perfect amount. And I love spending time with people.

[00:34:50] And that's the other thing why I think it's so important to really carefully look for partners that you appreciate in general, that you kind of like to really enjoy spending time with. Because life in the mountains is tough and it's not always just fun. So at least you want to have a person with you that is kind of a fun person. It is serious up there.

[00:35:16] But, you know, this kind of fun aspect in a climb can also take fears away. That's really cool to, if you can laugh with each other. It helps a lot to, you know, keep the spirit high. So when I was delving into the last 10 years of climbing and just to position you, because you probably don't remember much about that interview either.

[00:35:42] I mean, I think what we both remember from it is that we climbed an Indian Creek together beforehand and it was snowy and we had a really good time doing that. But you were about to leave for the riders on the storm trip with Mayan. And I think you had got, by the time I posted it, you had gotten back. Yeah, so that's kind of where you were in your climbing life. That was actually the reason I came to Indian Creek. One reason was to meet you and to get to climb with you.

[00:36:10] But I was supposed to prepare myself for that trip to Patagonia. You were talking about learning how to ring lock. How to ring lock. Luckily, I never had to do that in riders on the storm. That's not my best skill. So end off with chimneys. I'm terrible. But yeah, with Mayan, that was a great experience in a way that it was a new experience for me to do a big wall style kind of climb.

[00:36:40] I would never do it again. It's just so much work and the amount of climbing so little, considering how much gear you have to get to the face, how many meters of static rope you have to get up, how slow you are in a way. And I learned on that trip, holy shit, I really love alpine style climbing.

[00:37:06] A small little peg, spending a couple days or three days on the wall. And that's a perfect amount. And I love moving kind of fast. Not in terms of speed. Speed doesn't mean a lot to me. The time is never something I would go for. But, you know, if you are kind of moving fast, you can get really far on a big mountain face within a short time frame, within a short weather window.

[00:37:35] So, and yeah, but still we, we summited in Torres del Peine and it was a really rich experience. We did not free all the pitches, but it was a proud idea considering how far away I've been from climbing that hard in, you know, in granite. Yeah, but after that, I really got the feeling, hey, I want to go back to the Himalayas.

[00:38:04] I want to be in a base camp just with a small team, less crowded places, remote places. That's where I've been a lot in the past 10 years. Yeah, in Kyrgyzstan, China, in Nepal, in the Canadian Rockies, in Baffin, I believe, or was it before? Anyways, unclimbed terrain is always, wow, something I'm not getting enough about.

[00:38:32] Like, I've been recently in Norway just by myself because I have a bunch of friends there that I wanted to visit. And I had the best month, one of the best months of my life. We were like doing a bunch of first ascents, big lines and steep lines that my friends were kind of not worried about, but worried about they couldn't do it. But at the end, they learned you have to try to make it work.

[00:39:01] You know, they were so strong climbers, but they would not believe they can do it. And yeah, that was a really good experience to show my Norwegian friends in kind of a part of my world and to go back and next winter and finish some projects that we didn't do at the end.

[00:39:23] But yeah, I always leave places with new ideas for next time because learning about a new place is so much time and effort. And once you know an area, it's so much easier. Once you have an idea what you want to do, you can use the shorter windows. And Norway is not the country anymore where you have a three months winter with lots of ice around.

[00:39:48] Like even in Norway, there's a climate change going on and ice is not as guaranteed anymore as it was back in the days. I've been in this country so many times and I'm always blown away by the beauty and how remote it is. And just to see a couple of climbers in a month, like basically the people you go climbing with. Yeah, really cool. There's so much more to explore. It's crazy.

[00:40:17] Scandinavia is on the very top of my favorite list. It's cool that you were talking about these climber friends that kind of had put limits on themselves and then, you know, someone comes in and kind of has them break that. And I've often talked about that a lot of times that new eyes have to come in to a somewhat static, you know, culture that's made these decisions about what can and can't be done.

[00:40:44] And it's cool that you got to do that, actually, to be that kind of person that, you know, pun intended, breaks the ice, so to speak, and says, no, no, no, these here's some here's some new ways to look at stuff. Yeah, that was really cool. I mean, Norway doesn't carry many people in general and doesn't have a lot of climbers. And for sure, the mentality of the Norwegians is something I really care about.

[00:41:09] Like they're so modest, so like, you know, not talking lots about what they can do. But at the end, you see, they're really like, wow, they can do a lot. I kind of like this mentality versus the mentality of people talking a lot, but not getting done much.

[00:41:32] Yeah, that's what is Marco Pretzel says the tasty talk is what he calls that. I've always loved that phrase. No, there's no tasty talk in Norway. Yeah, so let's talk a little bit about, again, this sort of expansion of what you want to do. You came home from this big wall experience in Patagonia. Like, yeah, that's not for me. I want to move.

[00:42:01] I mean, let's face it, like the miserable thing about those walls is sitting still on them, which happens a lot. You know, sitting still blank, sitting still waiting, sitting still is, to me, I mean, it's always been the miserable part of climbing, especially when it's cold out. So, you know, coming away from that, thinking like, I want to go and move and find new terrain is another thing I keep hearing, you know, versus sensor.

[00:42:28] Remote places with a few people, a strong partner with you have a lot of faith in. So, tell me about, like, maybe a Himalayan expedition that was, in this case, you know, a success. We can talk about ones that you had to walk away from, too, but that kind of, in your mind, in the last 10 years, that, like, hits it. Yeah, I definitely want to talk about a huge failure, but, yeah. Let's do that next. Let's go success.

[00:42:57] Let's go first with the success. But that mountain I'm talking about now is actually a mountain I've been failing twice, and it was in China, Kyrgyzstan, right at the border. It's called Kizil Aska, a mountain people haven't heard about before. I haven't heard about before the first time I went, and I was so, like, driven by this perfect ice line at this 1,300 meters southeast phase.

[00:43:24] Water ice on a big mountain, like, almost 6,000 meters high. I like, almost like climbing ice in the Canadian Rockies, but just high elevation and so remote. Yeah, I've been failing there in two years, like 2010 and 11, and I actually thought, I'm not going back. Should other people do it? And many other teams attempted it after I left, before I came, and no one succeeded.

[00:43:53] And in 2016, I met Luka Lindic from Slovenia, and when I shared my opinion about this mountain, he was like, absolutely, there was no question mark. He was just, let's go, let's do it. And on this trip, we succeeded. It was like the best conditions we could ever imagine, the best team I could ever imagine in that kind of terrain.

[00:44:20] And we became partners in life, which was, yeah, for sure a highlight of my career. Also looking back to, or looking towards myself with a little bit of respect and courage to attempt a mountain the third time. Like, it's always a six weeks expedition.

[00:44:44] It's a lot of traveling and money involved, but we made it work, and I was really like, wow, worth all the effort. But I've been learning from the previous expedition so much that I thought it would be a shame to not attempt again. So, because this was my last, well, my only mountain I ever attempted on three trips. So, there were some other peaks I climbed in the Alps.

[00:45:11] Also, together with Luka, we've been in Alaska, we've been in Canada, Mount Fay. Maybe you have heard about this big line together with Brett Harrington. Also, as a memorial route to Marc-André, who was a very good friend of Luka and Brett's partner. So, that was a really good achievement, I'd say. Something I look back like, wow, we did a really good job.

[00:45:40] Luka and I are not partners in life anymore, but each of us is still an alpinist in a way, an individuum itself. So, I do have lots and lots of great people I go climbing with. Of course, when you spend so many days and weeks and months and years together in the mountains, you know each other without talking much. And that was a huge benefit for the both of us, knowing how far we can go together.

[00:46:08] But we also failed and almost lost our lives in Shishapangma's south face. And that was in 2018, I believe. My last expeditions to the Himalayas. Since then, I haven't been back. And since then, it didn't feel like I want to go back. It's still deep inside. Like, this experience was just too scary.

[00:46:34] But it was my only mountain higher than 8,000 meters. And we never reached the summit. We almost lost our lives in an avalanche. And we were running away, both shocked and also shocked by how wrong our decision was. Like, we both thought we did a good decision with the place we put up our tent. But it was definitely the wrong spot.

[00:47:02] I lost trusting myself a little bit in that kind of environment, in the very high ranges. And I never felt really great higher than 6,000 meters. So, that's another reason I probably decided to keep this world of 8,000 to other people. Yeah, I mean, that's just, you're pushing and pushing. It seems like in those years. And that was an obvious, you know, step is to let's try to do what we've been doing.

[00:47:32] You know, I mean, I think that's every alpinist. It's like, let's try to do what we've been doing, lower elevations on something even bigger and even bigger and even bigger. And, you know, I mean, for me, the aging process, it's physical, but it's also mental. And, you know, that kind of pushing and pushing for me also, you know, in my own much more humble way than what you've been doing. But also kind of ended.

[00:47:58] And I, you know, I can cite with, you know, I'm known for aid climbing and the big wall climbing back in the day. I mean, I have a specific route that I did as like a final thing of like, this is, I'm good with this. Like, I've done all the things that, you know, I've been, in this case, it was pushing towards that, you know, A5 thing or whatever. That like, well, how many more like awful, scary pitches can I do? And I just, I made a decision to stop.

[00:48:28] But, you know, it takes some sort of like that self-reflection to realize that. And like you had a, you know, a very close call that made it happen. But being able to walk away or whatever from that and not sit, wake up at night going, thinking, I have to prove myself still on this 8,000 meter thing has a level of maturity to it that not everybody sees, you know.

[00:48:54] It used to be like how you said, like we were pushing each other quite a lot, but we were also succeeding a lot. And I think we both got almost overwhelmed with all the success within a few years only. And all of a sudden, boom, it happened. So, I mean, then you get a feeling like how small we are in this world of the mountains and how fast it can happen.

[00:49:21] So, well, I don't feel like I'm, I would like to change anything or a lot. It's just that I don't feel so attracted to this suffering part. Being on expeditions means hiking in for days with heavy packs. That part is suffering. It crashed some of my discs in my life. So, I don't have many discs down there anymore.

[00:49:49] That's for sure one reason I kind of don't feel attracted to this really, really tough mountain missions anymore. And, yeah, staying in the cold for day after day and sleeping in the cold, waking up in the morning, getting, peeling yourself off a kind of wet sleeping bag, limited with comfort. I mean, I still don't need much comfort. But it was a few years with the least amount of comfort.

[00:50:19] And, yeah, now it feels a bit different. And I still love, absolutely love free climbing. Like when you say A4 or A5, oh, I can feel that. It's really like what I'm doing, not A5, of course, but aiding something up. But in order to free the line that I've been putting up, that's like a special reward to me.

[00:50:43] Like the hard part, like the work part is kind of finished, but now the fun part can start. And so, yeah, putting up new routes in the Alps or in other places of the world is still something I absolutely love. And when I haven't climbed a route that I've been putting up, I would still want to go back and do it. And I don't think my age of 52 is a limit yet. Maybe I'm too positive.

[00:51:13] But I'm still curious. I'm still like super motivated. It's over. That's why I wanted to do this interview was to just let you know. It's done. This is it. Thank you, Chris. You're very, very kind. But we do things differently. Like I said, I'm three years older than you, so let's just keep it going. I want to keep it going too. Well, it's still the same. I always think when I climb with younger people, I usually climb with younger people most of the time. Of course, yeah. I think they would carry the heavier peg.

[00:51:42] That's how we did it back in the days. When I was younger than my climbing partners, I would carry the heavy peg. But the youngest, they don't want to carry the heavy peg anymore. So I'm still carrying the heavy peg. Like, respect your elders. What is wrong with you? They're all too soft, Ines. They're all too soft. I've been climbing with a young girl from the German alpine team. Like she's crashing it. But she's younger than my son even.

[00:52:11] She's 23. And she's absolutely lovely. And I love so much to climb with her. But it still feels like I'm her mom, you know. I have this mom feeling. It's like, oh, don't do that. Oh, this could be scary. But at the same time, I'd like to push her and give her the confidence and the feeling. You can do it. And it's like a really tricky part in myself to, you know, push that young person in a way to help her growing with my knowledge, with my experience.

[00:52:40] But not push her too much to, yeah, you know, to get injured or something like that. It's a tricky one. But I love it. Yeah, that's pretty big gap. That's pretty fun. I mean, I don't climb like you do anymore in terms of so many big things. But, of course, I end up climbing with younger people as well.

[00:53:05] Sport climbing and things like that has its own, you know, hilarity of a guy who's 25 or 30 years older than his partner kind of thing. So, but, you know, I think it's sort of cliche, but it keeps us young for sure to not just climb with them, but to understand the change in attitude and the change in approach and all the things. So we don't become. And we learn as well a lot from them.

[00:53:32] Like, like it's climbing is a lifetime learning process. And young people, you also learn a lot. Yeah, it's really cool. I would imagine there's some fabulous German word for curmudgeon. And maybe curmudgeon is it. I don't know. Do you know what a curmudgeon is? No. In English? No idea. It's just the old cranky person that everything used to be better and now it all sucks. Do you know?

[00:54:00] I hope I'm never going to be like that. Yeah. I mean, I think it's pretty classic in climbing though to have, you know, like to look at the younger generation and they don't get it and they don't, they aren't as this or they aren't as that. And, you know, climbing sucks now or whatever. But it's important to me. And I think that this project, just the EnormaCast itself in the last 15 years is, you know, the thing that's one of the things that's kept me tuned in.

[00:54:27] And I have my, you know, I have parts of my attitude that are, you know, curmudgeonly, as we say, are like a little bit like, oh, come on, you guys. Like, let's be tougher. Let's be like more like we used to be. But generally I've kept it pretty light. And it sounds like you have as well. Yeah. I've been recently sharing stage in a film festival in Italy just a week ago.

[00:54:52] And we were nine alpinists on stage, like Simon Geetle, Simon Messner, some others. Some more Simons? No, not more Simons, but Alex Jason and names, you know, but also Steve House. And it was about like alpinism back in the days and alpinism today. So they tried to combine the different generations.

[00:55:22] I was more on the other end of the generations. So, of course, I don't feel like a grandmother, but like, of course, there was Steve and myself. And then this question was how we look towards the young generation, what they are achieving in alpinism. What does it make with us? How would we see things getting done today versus back in the days?

[00:55:50] And I was really shocked because Steve said on stage to everyone, you know, I don't climb mountains anymore. And I don't care about young people climbing mountains at all. And I was like, oh, my God. I mean, I for sure will always be a climber and climb mountains as long as I can. And of course, age would tell you which level you're still able to do.

[00:56:15] But I felt so sad for him because, like, this seems a chapter that is so that's so finished. And I would go crazy, like, you know, climbing mountains has been my life and will always be my life. And I feel really sorry for him. On stage, there was also a young participant, a young alpinist from Slovenia. And I've been part of the Pio Lidor jury recently again.

[00:56:44] And they asked me to make a choice for the female, special female mention. And I was like, wow, they did such a perfect alpine line in the Himalayas, unclimbed peak, unknown place, like in the best style you can imagine. And one of them came to the film festival as well. But now all of a sudden she was pregnant, like just a few days before giving birth.

[00:57:10] And that was really, like, so cool to see young women going for it, but still planning a life as a family and not thinking about that was my past. That was my life before I became a mom. But still seeing themselves as climbers after. Yeah, that was really cool. I need to turn off my potato soup. I'm sorry. One minute. Can we do a small little break? Yeah, of course. Otherwise we'll be smashed potatoes.

[00:57:39] Sorry. Okay, turn it off. Did you save it? Yes. Wasn't too late. Oh, good. All on time. Don't fuck with a German potato soup. I'm so glad I'm able to cook again after a couple of weeks because I can use my hands, both of them.

[00:58:04] You know, you talked about how shocking it was for you to have this, you know, thing happen to you in the mountains. This avalanche got so close to dying. You know, I watched an interview that you did on Epic TV about it and a little bit of footage in there. And you talking about how shocking it was. And how, like, you guys couldn't talk to each other for a while. And, like, it just really changed your attitudes.

[00:58:31] But one other thing, and I think it was in the 50-50 film, there was some quote about, like, climbing with the knowledge of friends we've lost, right? Sarah's been on the show. We talked at length about, you know, the guiding incident where a guide was killed and that Sarah felt, you know, responsible for in her own way.

[00:58:53] So what does that mean to you in terms of, like, you have lived this mountain life, you live in a place where the costs are, you know, obviously in your face. And you also fly, which has its own costs that happen around you. So what did that mean to you when you said the knowledge, like climbing with the knowledge of friends we've lost? Yeah, it's a tough question. We've been talking a lot in our team with Arterix recently.

[00:59:21] We lost too many of our athletes in the past years. And it's, like, always, like, so painful. I don't know how to answer your question, if there is any question. We do get lots of support, like, mental support from the brand. And that's really something I can see the brand taking really care on the athletes.

[00:59:45] They always, in every single meeting, remind us that we should not push it too much in order to survive. That's all they expect us to survive and to live our dreams as long as possible. So that's really cool. So I've got, from the beginning of this partnership, the feeling that's the right brand to work with. And I'm really grateful for being part of that team.

[01:00:11] And for sure, there's a reason I have been with them for 25 years now or even longer. Wow. I didn't know that. Wow. That's a long brand partnership. It's, like, the longest I've almost ever heard except for maybe, like, Conrad in North Face, you know? Yeah. Yeah. No, it is also the team of athletes. We are talking a lot about that. And this helps quite a bit.

[01:00:36] And, of course, the idea or the imagination, I am responsible for a friend's death or a person's death I'm climbing with is the worst ever. I mean, dying is one thing. If you die yourself, it's done, I guess, pretty quick. But living with this feeling of being responsible for something happened to someone else, I have no idea how you would feel.

[01:01:05] And I feel so, so sad for Sarah that she feels this way because she's not responsible. But, of course, we do. And maybe that's also a reason that makes it even harder in a way to go climbing with your life partner in serious missions because you don't want to see your partner dying. This is the worst ever scenario or being part of it.

[01:01:36] It's crazy. Crazy. But at the end, we always remember ourselves. We do this kind of activities in the mountains because it fulfills us with something, I guess, with passion, with desire. You know, now, since I haven't been climbing for four weeks now, I kind of didn't miss it the first couple weeks. But now I'm getting really, you know, hungry about it again.

[01:02:03] I can feel this like, ah, this is my life. My life feels so much more rich in a way, being able to climb mountains. But it's not just the climbing part, it's the traveling part, the people you climb with, all that kind of connection spread all over the globe. And, yeah, that's really something. But, of course, the older you are, the more people you see dying in the mountains.

[01:02:30] And maybe that's also a reason I shifted a bit in a different direction in my recent career. I became a rock guide with the idea of teaching women-only groups. And that's something I'm really good at. I don't like to say that because I'm not that person to say, like, hey, wow, I'm so good in what I'm doing. But they love it, and I love it.

[01:02:58] And no matter which level they appear, it's kind of a person to me that deserves respect. And they bring so good and crazy life stories that I'm always blown away. And what we all learn from each other is really something that is even, has even a higher value to me than succeeding only myself.

[01:03:25] So seeing others succeeding, you know, supporting others to succeed today feels even better to me. And I don't think we naturally have to be a good person to be a good climber. But working with people and teaching them and spending lots of time with people, you kind of have to be a good person.

[01:03:54] And yeah, it makes me, it provides me a happy feeling to get this feedback and to see other people's happy faces because of what I'm offering them or helping them to achieve.

[01:04:27] All right, folks, thanks for listening. And thanks to Inez for connecting. Took a little while. Took her blowing her shoulder out. You know, she's not one for the tasty talk, despite being in many ways the consummate professional climber and just a total badass. So thanks, Inez, for opening up. You can, of course, follow Inez all over the internet, on the Instagram, whatever you want to do. You have Google, but do check out her film 50-50. It's on YouTube.

[01:04:57] Two women climbing and connecting in the mountains. And you do really get to see some style differences between Sarah Heunekin and Inez. And it makes sense why they click. All right, folks, I don't have a ton going on with the EnormaCast outside of Pumpin' Out interviews. I'm a little on the fence about Lander this year. I've been saying that the last few years and still going. So we'll see what happens with that. Got some stuff in the fall that I don't really need to preview yet. So I'll let you go.

[01:05:26] And hopefully, you're going climbing. And of course, checking those knots. I will always climb as long as my bones allow. I want to climb healthy and happy.

[01:05:57] I'm not just climbing for success. I think now that I'm getting older, I'm more in the present. Once you manage to fully live in the moment, I don't think there's any reason to be scared for the future. See you later. Good đ Dad.ller Thank you.