Continue reading "Enormocast 296: Barry Blanchard Live in Banff"
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[00:02:44] Hello and welcome to the EnormaCast. This is your host Chris Caloose.
[00:02:47] It is November 8th, 2024, about 1030 AM here in Colorado.
[00:02:53] And this is episode 296 of the EnormaCast,
[00:02:57] a conversation with Canadian alpinist Barry Blanchard.
[00:03:02] This was recorded live at the Banff Mountain Film Festival,
[00:03:07] and I want to thank the folks at the Banff Center for inviting me up there,
[00:03:11] getting Barry on the stage with me, giving me a free hotel room.
[00:03:15] All those things, it was a lovely trip to be back in my old stomping grounds in the Bow Valley
[00:03:21] from 20 years ago, and a lovely little vacation with my wife Stephanie,
[00:03:26] and a chance to meet and talk to Barry Blanchard.
[00:03:30] Like, it all came together.
[00:03:32] I also want to thank Rab for hosting that stage,
[00:03:35] and everyone else that contributed to my wife and I having a great time in Banff.
[00:03:41] And remember, Banff Mountain Film Tours the country,
[00:03:44] probably coming to a town near you.
[00:03:46] You can check all that out at BanffCenter.ca, and that's center like the Canadians spell it.
[00:03:54] BanffCenter.ca for info on the Banff Film Tour.
[00:03:58] All right, so this one was recorded live in front of an audience,
[00:04:01] which makes it a little different than the normal discussions here on the podcast.
[00:04:05] It's a different vibe, a little more of a question-answer kind of situation,
[00:04:10] but I think it turned out great,
[00:04:11] and Barry has agreed to come back on the show at some point soon
[00:04:16] and fill in some of the gaps and the details.
[00:04:19] We only had an hour for the show, and Barry's life does not fit into an hour.
[00:04:23] This one is filled with joy, tears, laughter, all the things packed into an hour.
[00:04:29] I hope you dig it.
[00:04:30] A conversation in front of a lovely audience
[00:04:34] with one of the toughest and sweetest alpinists out there,
[00:04:39] Barry Blanchard.
[00:04:41] If there's one name associated with sending and mind-bending,
[00:04:46] it's Chris Caloose.
[00:04:48] Uh, cut, cut.
[00:04:50] I don't think anyone's gonna buy that, dude.
[00:04:53] Well, it's been a hard week.
[00:04:55] I just thought I'd bump you a little, bro.
[00:04:57] Thanks, buddy.
[00:04:58] But let's stick to the script, okay?
[00:05:00] All right, roll it again.
[00:05:02] But remember, I love you, dude.
[00:05:04] I love you, too.
[00:05:06] If there's one name associated with sending and mind-bending,
[00:05:10] it's Adam Andra.
[00:05:11] Andra.
[00:05:12] And now, Sportiva has released the latest in its grand parade of legendary climbing shoes,
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[00:06:11] Okay.
[00:06:12] Well, I don't think there's an intro, so we'll just intro ourselves.
[00:06:15] My name is Chris Galoose.
[00:06:16] I run a podcast called The Enorma Cast and partnered in another one called The Run Out,
[00:06:21] both climbing podcasts.
[00:06:23] Uh, we don't mess with anything else but climbing to our financial detriment.
[00:06:29] But, um, I'm really honored to be here.
[00:06:31] Uh, Banff Film Festival is obviously, you know, the preeminent festival, I think, in the
[00:06:36] world for this sort of stuff.
[00:06:37] And was quite honored when they got in touch with me.
[00:06:40] We did a Zoom call and they, they kind of were convincing me I should come.
[00:06:44] Um, I let them do that even though, you know, they had me at Barry Blanchard and Free Hotel
[00:06:50] Room.
[00:06:52] Um, so yeah, they convinced me to come on up and do this, which is of course silly.
[00:06:57] I'm joking, but, um, I'm very honored to be here.
[00:07:00] I think podcasting, you know, it's sort of eminence in the culture has grown, but it's
[00:07:05] always been maybe a little bit seen as kind of a pop culture thing or not all that important.
[00:07:10] But, um, I'm proud of what I've done with the EnormaCast, um, with 296 stories from climbing
[00:07:16] people who aren't with us anymore.
[00:07:19] Greats, newcomers, all sorts of people in that podcast.
[00:07:22] And it's, uh, turned into quite a repository of, of history that I'm, I'm proud of.
[00:07:27] But there's been a obvious hole in the resume, which is about to be filled here today with Barry
[00:07:34] Blanchard.
[00:07:36] Thank you.
[00:07:39] And we are, we are recording this, I hope to be put out later.
[00:07:43] So, um, I got a little nod.
[00:07:44] So that's good.
[00:07:45] Um, as a podcast and, and we only have an hour, so we'll get going here, but, uh, I
[00:07:49] don't think an hour is gonna be enough.
[00:07:50] So maybe later I'll convince Barry to come back again and do another podcast with me.
[00:07:55] That'll, that'll get out on my feed, uh, to fill in some of the other stories.
[00:07:58] Um, obviously many of you or most of you know who Barry Blanchard is.
[00:08:04] He's, uh, uh, basically local legend.
[00:08:07] And, um, I think it's safe to say that, you know, starting in the 1980s, Barry and his cohort,
[00:08:15] his very small, but very dedicated cohort kind of helped redefine what hard alpinism was.
[00:08:22] Definitely in the Rockies, but, um, their attitudes and their ascents influenced the world.
[00:08:27] And then they all went out into the world, cutting their teeth here in the Rockies and
[00:08:32] then to Alaska and to India and Pakistan and Nepal and, and so many other places.
[00:08:38] Like I said, an hour is not gonna, not gonna do it.
[00:08:41] So, um, thanks for doing this, Barry.
[00:08:43] Um, I'm, I'm excited to finally talk to you.
[00:08:45] My pleasure, man.
[00:08:46] Yeah.
[00:08:47] And, uh, yeah, the Enormo cast, like this is enormous.
[00:08:51] And, uh, yeah, we were joking earlier, uh, talking about this that, uh, yeah, I told
[00:08:57] Chris, someday it's coming.
[00:08:59] Someone's gonna do a PhD on the Enormo cast and there's already been people studying it
[00:09:04] for, you know, masters level stuff, but, uh, someone's gonna come up with a PhD for
[00:09:09] the Enormo cast.
[00:09:10] So yeah.
[00:09:12] That'd be cool.
[00:09:13] Yeah.
[00:09:15] Um, yeah, well, awesome.
[00:09:16] Thanks for that honor.
[00:09:17] I'm glad that to know that you've listened and enjoyed what I've done.
[00:09:21] And, um, I totally appreciate it.
[00:09:23] I want to hit like a very basic origin story.
[00:09:27] Some, some of these are going to be sort of greatest hits.
[00:09:29] You guys might know some of these stories if you followed Barry's career or read his
[00:09:33] book, The Calling.
[00:09:34] Uh, but I can't have him in front of me and not hear these stories because, uh, that's
[00:09:39] why I started the podcast was to the privilege to sit in front of some of the people I admire
[00:09:43] and hear them tell the stories.
[00:09:45] So what about this story of the bus ride?
[00:09:48] When I read it in The Calling, uh, the, the bus ride with the, with the white spider book,
[00:09:54] it, I almost felt like, wow, this seems too good to be true.
[00:09:57] Like sort of a John Long vibe.
[00:09:59] Um, but certainly I'm not questioning your veracity.
[00:10:02] Tell me, tell us all about this.
[00:10:04] You know what I mean?
[00:10:05] Like you're like, oh, that's, that fits pretty good in the whole thing.
[00:10:08] But tell, tell just quickly, like this happened to you and it's this crazy coincidence that may,
[00:10:14] may have like changed your life forever.
[00:10:17] Or I think you clearly didn't think it did.
[00:10:19] So tell that quick story about hopping onto the bus.
[00:10:22] Yeah, yeah.
[00:10:23] Well, my life started actually probably in Medicine Hat, uh, Alberta, where, uh, my mother
[00:10:30] was, uh, going off to join the military and met my father.
[00:10:35] And, uh, you know, I happened, you know, nine years, 11 years later, there I am, uh, visiting
[00:10:43] my, uh, my father's mother in Medicine Hat, Alberta.
[00:10:48] And, uh, you know, my mother put me on the bus in Calgary, Alberta, and it's a Greyhound
[00:10:54] bus and they don't exist anymore.
[00:10:56] And, uh, yeah, I'd get out at the station in Medicine Hat and my grandmother would meet
[00:11:01] me and I'd spend time with my grandmother, which was phenomenal because, you know, it's
[00:11:05] a different landscape than Calgary.
[00:11:08] It's quite a bit different landscape.
[00:11:10] So really cool.
[00:11:11] And then she would take me and put me back on the bus to get, uh, back to Calgary.
[00:11:16] And, uh, yeah, this bus ride, you know, I remember, you know, and it's written about
[00:11:21] in the book where my grandmother said to the bus driver, can you take care of them?
[00:11:26] And the Greyhound bus drivers had, you know, the same kind of caps that pilots still wear with
[00:11:32] a thin tie and short white shirt.
[00:11:34] And, um, yeah, he said, put the little guy right next to me here.
[00:11:38] And I got sat next to a gal who was in her twenties and reminded me of, uh, Tuesday Weld,
[00:11:46] who was barefoot sitting cross-legged on one of the big shows in the United States at that
[00:11:53] time.
[00:11:53] And, uh, yeah, this gal was sitting like that and she was reading something and, you know,
[00:11:59] I, she just looked over at me and said, oh, do you want to see some pictures?
[00:12:03] And she showed me these pictures of these guys on the North face of the Eiger.
[00:12:07] And, uh, yeah, then she read me passages from the book and, uh, it just resonated with something
[00:12:15] in my bloodstream for one thing.
[00:12:19] There just wasn't a lot of heroic male role models in my life, kind of none.
[00:12:24] And then there was this expression of heroism between these males trying so hard to attempt
[00:12:32] this face.
[00:12:33] One of the things she read me that sticks with me is one of them, you know, sacrificing his
[00:12:39] night sitting on a ledge with, you know, knickers and stuff on.
[00:12:44] And as my friend Kevin says, they were up there with sticks and nails, man, sticks and nails.
[00:12:50] And, you know, sacrificing his comfort to support the back of his buddy so that his buddy could
[00:12:55] get some sleep.
[00:12:56] And that was just so heroic to me.
[00:12:58] And, uh, yeah, by the time I got back to Calgary and could once again, see the Rockies
[00:13:03] on the horizon, it was one of the first callings to the mountains for me.
[00:13:09] I mean, one of the things I've done with these, these interviews over the years is try to
[00:13:13] find these moments because you don't notice them at the time.
[00:13:17] Obviously it becomes this thing that you, you go back to, but these simple forks in the
[00:13:22] path that lead us to a place.
[00:13:24] And, um, you know, at your lowest times, maybe you, you know, wow, I wish I had never seen
[00:13:30] that book, you know, I don't know.
[00:13:31] Or when you were flat broke or whatever, like maybe I could have done something else.
[00:13:35] But, uh, but overall, I think you're happy with how it turned out.
[00:13:38] You know, your path to climbing then kind of met some of the normal bumps with clubs
[00:13:43] and with learning to climb from mentors with going out and almost dying as a kid with your
[00:13:48] friends, cause you didn't know what you were doing, but you arrived at this place pretty
[00:13:53] quickly, you know, in your late teens, early twenties, where all of a sudden the Rockies,
[00:13:59] you know, these big roots in the Rockies were, were open to you in a sense.
[00:14:03] Like you could start getting up in there and this era and it's, it's covered in the calling.
[00:14:08] It's, it's a very short period.
[00:14:10] When you read the book, it's, you think you're reading like 20 years of history, but it's like
[00:14:16] six, you know, because of the pro you know, how prolific you guys were, um, a quote, you
[00:14:22] know, from there, there, you said, when we were invincible and you said, nothing could touch
[00:14:27] me.
[00:14:28] There's, there's a lot more to that part of the quote, but can you describe that?
[00:14:32] Just that feeling of those times of that endless stoke and, uh, you know, one thing after another,
[00:14:39] the way you could just turn around and go back into the mountains after these harrowing ascents,
[00:14:43] um, in this group of people, it's kind of a broad question, but I'm trying to capture like
[00:14:47] just that initial feeling of what it felt like to be arriving on these adventures one after another.
[00:14:54] Yeah.
[00:14:55] You're looking back on some of those adventures now and, uh, putting my lifespan into the terms
[00:15:01] of a Canadian football, uh, you know, four, four downs or four, four quarters, because
[00:15:08] American is different, but you know, in a Canadian lifespan, I'm supposed to live to 82.
[00:15:14] That's the normal for a Canadian male and women live longer.
[00:15:18] And there's a reason for that.
[00:15:20] But anyways, you know, the first quarter was, uh, the first part of life for me.
[00:15:25] So, you know, to the age of 21, then the second quarter was, you know, 21 through to my early
[00:15:31] forties.
[00:15:32] And, uh, yeah, the stuff that we did back then, I look back now that I'm in my fourth quarter
[00:15:39] cause I'm 65.
[00:15:40] So, you know, it's like, God, I can't believe that we did, you know, a route I repeated just,
[00:15:48] uh, earlier this summer thinking, I can't believe I soloed that.
[00:15:52] Like, what was I thinking?
[00:15:55] Yeah.
[00:15:56] Yeah.
[00:15:56] But at the time, yeah, you know, there's another quote in the movie about, and we used
[00:16:04] to use this like, thank God we didn't die.
[00:16:06] Now we can try something harder.
[00:16:08] And, uh, you know, it, it is kind of funny.
[00:16:12] It's funny, but that was the mindset that, uh, yeah, we were more or less invincible.
[00:16:20] And then in that second quarter of life into the third quarter, but early it's in the second
[00:16:27] quarter, your ability as a climber, physically, mentally, spiritually, emotionally, intellectually,
[00:16:36] those lines cross.
[00:16:37] And if you have the right partner and there was only four or five or six partners, those
[00:16:42] all come together, then magic can happen.
[00:16:44] And it was really cool to go up there and attempt to find magic or grace.
[00:16:51] Grace is a better word.
[00:16:53] And have grace touch us at times.
[00:16:57] And, you know, it was, what's interesting now is a lot of the grace that I experienced
[00:17:02] in the mountains didn't have to do with the summit.
[00:17:05] You know, it was great if the summit was there, but so much of the grace I've experienced
[00:17:10] in the valley floor and often come into the Alpine, this sacred space for me and my partners
[00:17:16] and we experienced it there.
[00:17:19] But, uh, yeah, it's every step of the way.
[00:17:22] And, uh, yeah, when we were young, man, what's next?
[00:17:27] I, I, I'm kind of fortunate that I was raised in poverty, didn't have a lot of money at that
[00:17:33] time.
[00:17:33] You know, if I had been like a, a trust funder or whatever we want to call them, you know,
[00:17:38] someone whose parents pay their bill, I would have died in the first year.
[00:17:43] Cause I would have went from Patagonia to Karakorum, to the Himalaya, to the Andes, to the Alaska
[00:17:50] range all in one season.
[00:17:52] So not being able to afford that is a good deal.
[00:17:55] It's stretched out.
[00:17:56] And one of those lines experience could come up to match those other lines.
[00:18:03] So, yeah.
[00:18:05] Well, I was, I was like contemplating just my first question of the whole, this whole thing
[00:18:10] being like, how are you still alive?
[00:18:12] Um, and then I would just sit here for an hour and listen to you try to explain all the times
[00:18:18] that you almost, almost weren't alive.
[00:18:21] Um, and you just mentioned summits, you know, being kind of the secondary thing to the experience.
[00:18:26] Um, and also this ambition, uh, to just turn around and go back again.
[00:18:31] And that reminded me of the, the infamous story, you know, of, of the Rupal face and Nanga Parbat.
[00:18:37] And, you know, I think a lot of people know that story.
[00:18:42] We can, you know, again, that story is an hour or two in and of itself.
[00:18:47] Um, we give the, the, the short notes of it, but part of that story is not only not summiting,
[00:18:53] um, and, and not finishing the route, but only by a hair in terms of the size of that wall.
[00:18:59] Um, I think you'd have to probably put it as your closest call or one of your closest calls.
[00:19:05] And then the thing about that story that's fascinating and we can get the details is that
[00:19:10] after the, one of the most harrowing descents of all time, in some ways, you guys like decided
[00:19:18] that maybe you should just rest for a couple of weeks and try it again.
[00:19:22] And that's that part of the story.
[00:19:24] I was like, good God, like that's, that's ambition.
[00:19:28] That's pretty intense.
[00:19:29] The other thing about this story is that you bookended your first book with it.
[00:19:32] You open with the story and then you back, he backtracks very backtracks and then catches
[00:19:38] up to that story.
[00:19:39] And that's the end of the book.
[00:19:40] Um, so tell us a little bit about Nanga Parbat because I think it, or the Rupal face in particular,
[00:19:45] but I think it, it, yeah, it's became part of your climbing for the rest of your career.
[00:19:50] And to this day.
[00:19:51] Yeah.
[00:19:52] Yeah.
[00:19:52] And one of the biggest parts of that was Kevin Doyle, Ward Robinson and Mark Twight.
[00:19:59] You know, when I had the traumatic head injury that I suffered, those guys showed up.
[00:20:04] They came to town to be with me and that kind of bond.
[00:20:10] Well, you guys are all survivors.
[00:20:12] Yeah.
[00:20:12] Yeah.
[00:20:13] You know, you've all made it through.
[00:20:15] Yeah.
[00:20:15] Yeah.
[00:20:15] Yeah.
[00:20:16] Not all of my climbing buddies have.
[00:20:18] So yeah, that, that drive.
[00:20:21] And at that point in time, in that second quarter of life, all four of us lived for climbing.
[00:20:29] That was the thing that as Jack Tackle wants to ask me, so Bubba, when did you figure it
[00:20:38] out that you were put on this earth to climb?
[00:20:41] Yeah.
[00:20:41] It's a great impression.
[00:20:43] Yeah.
[00:20:43] Yeah.
[00:20:43] Yeah.
[00:20:44] Yeah.
[00:20:44] Well, I can't bat the eyelashes that Jack get because I don't have them like that.
[00:20:50] But yeah, it's, yeah, yeah.
[00:20:53] I was called to it.
[00:20:54] It's why I'm here.
[00:20:55] And then in that second quarter of life with those guys, that's what we lived, breathed.
[00:21:01] All of our inspiration, guidance and religion came from climbing.
[00:21:08] All of our spirituality came from climbing and still does.
[00:21:12] Um, but well for myself and yeah, the, the ability to come down from something like that
[00:21:21] and have that, uh, experience line start to advance.
[00:21:26] And the second time we went up, it looked like it was going to happen again.
[00:21:30] And we didn't need to have our butts handed to us on a plate in a second time.
[00:21:36] And we just looked at what was going on in Nanga Parbat and said, we're going down.
[00:21:40] So that was something to take into the third and fourth quarters that, uh, you know, that
[00:21:47] experience, but more so that partnership.
[00:21:50] And then we took a couple of weeks cause it stormed for a couple of weeks.
[00:21:55] You know, we couldn't get back on the mountain and you need rest after that.
[00:21:59] And really, uh, after those events, you probably need months of rest, but you know, you're only
[00:22:05] there for a couple months or three months.
[00:22:07] So you got to keep, uh, if you're going to try to accomplish what you want to accomplish,
[00:22:12] you got to get back up there and get back on it.
[00:22:15] Or you don't, there's times that we've walked away.
[00:22:18] Yeah.
[00:22:19] And I've interviewed Mark, um, and got, you know, I, I heard him tell the story, uh,
[00:22:25] which was, I mean, that was a dream come true for me to sit and sit in a room with him
[00:22:29] and have him recount these tales as well.
[00:22:31] Your recall of, of details on these climbs is amazing.
[00:22:36] The way you can write about them from years past.
[00:22:40] Can you like, just for the one tale of this ascent, cause some people probably don't know,
[00:22:44] but there's a point in the descent that, um, you guys are hit by an avalanche.
[00:22:50] Uh, Ward Robinson is, is not completely incapacitated, but you guys are helping him down.
[00:22:56] And then there's a point at which, and this will make anybody's palm sweat.
[00:22:59] You just accidentally throw the ropes off.
[00:23:02] And so you're in the middle of a, of a, whatever I got to use meters, I guess,
[00:23:06] cause I'm in Canada, but, um, a bunch of meters.
[00:23:09] I don't know.
[00:23:11] I don't know how that works.
[00:23:12] You can switch it to yards if you want.
[00:23:14] They're very, very close.
[00:23:16] Then I got to do more math.
[00:23:18] Um, anyway, they're way up a big face and accidentally through miscommunication disappear
[00:23:24] the ropes, but don't find out until the next morning.
[00:23:26] Like, can you just, can you just zero in on, on a little bit about that moment of, uh,
[00:23:32] of dipping into a survival mode that heavy?
[00:23:37] Yeah.
[00:23:37] Yeah.
[00:23:38] You know, it, uh, yeah, gets my nervous system back to that moment when, you know, we're packing
[00:23:46] up and, uh, the storm has settled down, but it's laid a whole bunch of snow onto this massive
[00:23:53] face.
[00:23:53] And, you know, the avalanche hazard is, you know, I'm an avalanche expert, but I don't
[00:23:58] want anyone to think about what the avalanche hazard was at that point.
[00:24:01] Right.
[00:24:02] And, uh, you know, we're packing up and I, I casually say to Kevin, Hey, have you seen
[00:24:08] the red rope?
[00:24:09] And like, no, I haven't seen the red rope.
[00:24:12] Uh, what about the yellow rope?
[00:24:14] Haven't seen the yellow rope either.
[00:24:16] Holy shit.
[00:24:17] And, you know, you start ripping your part pack apart, like where are the ropes?
[00:24:21] Where are the ropes?
[00:24:21] And then you're looking back in the snow cave and the, you know, what was it?
[00:24:24] The tent one tent.
[00:24:26] Cause Mark had dropped the tent, the second one.
[00:24:28] But, uh, anyways, so snow cave and tent and where are the ropes?
[00:24:33] Where are the ropes?
[00:24:33] And then the closest I've ever had to having a nervous breakdown was racing out onto the
[00:24:40] slope.
[00:24:40] Once we realized Kevin and I had miscommunicated, you know, in a blizzard the night before at
[00:24:46] one in the morning or something, I'm letting go of the ropes.
[00:24:50] And then Kevin feels this big tug and thinks, oh, Blanche really wants those ropes.
[00:24:54] He's 330 feet below me with ropes tied together.
[00:24:57] We've lowered words pack.
[00:24:59] Cause yeah.
[00:25:00] Anyways, you know, the ropes disappear.
[00:25:02] They go off.
[00:25:03] They've never been found.
[00:25:05] And, uh, yeah, I go rushing out onto this, you know, slab and they have to be here.
[00:25:11] They have to be here.
[00:25:12] Oh my God.
[00:25:13] Oh my God.
[00:25:13] They have to be here.
[00:25:14] And Mark's there, Blanche, Blanche, come back.
[00:25:17] Like, yeah, you're, you're going to start an avalanche.
[00:25:19] No, they're going to be here.
[00:25:20] And I'm digging around for the ropes.
[00:25:22] And then, you know, it's high altitude.
[00:25:23] So finally, you know, I'm like, huh?
[00:25:27] Huh?
[00:25:27] And I'm totally exhausted because I don't have enough oxygen.
[00:25:31] I've been working really hard.
[00:25:32] I get back to where the platform is.
[00:25:34] And Kevin picks me up like, uh, like, you know, I would do with my daughters at the swimming pool and they're learning to swim and they're only five years old.
[00:25:43] Pick you them up and put them on the side.
[00:25:45] Kevin just picks me up like Blanche.
[00:25:47] Don't do that again, man.
[00:25:48] It's dangerous out there.
[00:25:50] And I'm like, yeah.
[00:25:51] Yeah.
[00:25:52] Yeah.
[00:25:53] And yeah.
[00:25:54] So we start the descent.
[00:25:55] And as Mark said, you know, we come up with a plan.
[00:25:59] We're going to down climb and there's a whole bunch of old line left by the, uh, Messner expedition.
[00:26:05] Actually, we're going to cut a bunch of that line, tie it together.
[00:26:08] And this is water ski rope.
[00:26:09] It's the stuff you buy at Canadian tire to go water skiing with like yellow braided rope.
[00:26:15] We're going to tie those together.
[00:26:16] And we're going to start to think up about repelling because we have 10,000 feet of repelling to do.
[00:26:22] Thank you.
[00:26:23] You're welcome.
[00:26:24] And, you know, on the way up, um, we went by this one bag that was anchored to the wall and we didn't have time to investigate this bag, but we all kind of like, oh, wow, that's curious.
[00:26:35] We've got to check that out on the way down.
[00:26:37] So we down climb and we don't start an avalanche, which is great.
[00:26:40] We get to the bag and, uh, we rip open the bag and inside the bag, perfectly preserved in ice.
[00:26:49] So there's no UV damage is pitons, carabiners, ice screws, and in the bottom two perfectly preserved ropes.
[00:26:58] And as Mark pointed out, wow, they're even the same brand as our sponsor, BL.
[00:27:06] So the, the not funny side of this was three years before four Japanese climbers on a trip had gone into the same feature.
[00:27:15] We had the Merkle gully storm had happened and they've never been found.
[00:27:20] And their team left that bag as almost a, a bit of, uh, their own protecting their own spirits in case these guys ever came down.
[00:27:31] And here we were four guys coming out of the Merkle gully, desperately needing that stuff and finding it for the purpose.
[00:27:39] It was left for, and yeah, we will.
[00:27:42] We walked away from that descent with a bit of Japanese soul.
[00:27:46] And, uh, yeah, yeah, that is, uh, an obligation that we carry.
[00:27:54] Uh, so in your analogy, this is still the second quarter, right?
[00:28:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:28:05] Okay. Um, and, and looking at that time, and this is something again observed by writers and, uh, and alpinists themselves, uh, filmmakers now podcasters, I guess.
[00:28:17] See, I put myself in that group.
[00:28:20] Um, is that the, the underlying kind of ambition and you've observed too, that there is a darkness.
[00:28:29] And, you know, my kind of investigation has always made me wonder if you could climb like that without that.
[00:28:37] Like if you could be a perfectly well-adjusted human and, and do these things.
[00:28:43] And I'm not, I mean, I'm, the judgment's out for me because I keep talking to people like Mark Twight, um, for example, for whom my phrase is prone to the darkness.
[00:28:54] And some of your quotes as well, you know, uh, you know, a dark lake of sadness.
[00:28:59] You talked about that being underneath human life, you know, depression, your own ins and outs of, uh, what would the, the katabasis?
[00:29:07] Is that the word that you use the Greek word for like a descent to the, to the underworld?
[00:29:12] Like these things almost feel like they're necessary and you can, you know, you can conflict my thesis there easily enough.
[00:29:20] But part of that other quote, when you said nothing could touch me in those years, that's a great thing is if like, you know, nothing could, could stop me.
[00:29:29] But there's also this idea that there was a lot of penetrating emotions and thoughts and things that also couldn't, couldn't get to you and maybe should have been necessary.
[00:29:38] Can you talk a little bit about, uh, about your sort of dance with that in those years?
[00:29:44] Um, as far as, as Mark puts it, and I think you, you put it this way as being in the valley when you're down off the mountain and coping with, with life in the valley, as Mark puts it.
[00:29:54] You know, the, the, the, the reason to return, to go again, to try to find some of that grace and some of the, the, so much of the light that the mountain, uh, gives us.
[00:30:07] And, uh, we just look out the window here and there's light, but the mountains also, uh, can be very dark and, you know, no one goes there for the dark days, but if you go there enough, you're probably going to experience some of the darkness.
[00:30:24] And the darkness takes ability, takes life.
[00:30:28] It takes, you know, and it's, it's a closed door, especially if there's a loss of life.
[00:30:33] There's, uh, it's a really hard door to get through.
[00:30:38] And, uh, yeah, yeah, I get, I'll just backtrack and unpack that a bit.
[00:30:44] Cause you had said normally adjusted human, any normally adjusted humans in the audience, please put your hand up.
[00:30:51] Oh, there is.
[00:30:53] We got one.
[00:30:54] Wow.
[00:30:55] Congratulations.
[00:30:56] We gotta, we gotta spend some time talking.
[00:30:59] Cause, uh, uh, yeah, my life, uh, and, uh, you know, Mark and I have, uh, bonded about that.
[00:31:08] The darkness.
[00:31:09] Cause we were very, very, uh, drawn by the darkness and needed to go into the darkness.
[00:31:17] And a lot of which was to appreciate so much of the light to get back to the light.
[00:31:22] And yeah, the Katabasis, you know, the strongest descent into Katabasis that I know was our friend, Kevin.
[00:31:31] Like he went and wrestled with it, you know, went right to the bottom of the pit.
[00:31:37] Kevin Doyle.
[00:31:38] Yeah.
[00:31:38] Yeah.
[00:31:39] He, he fought with it and far deeper with more, uh, spirit and fight than, you know, Mark or I or Ward did.
[00:31:49] And, uh, you get back up, you know, you can't stay down there, you know, at a certain point, whatever the next life is, you know, we'll be there, maybe there.
[00:32:02] But, um, you come back up and, uh, from the book, it's solely human hands that bring you back to the surface.
[00:32:11] And, uh, it's one of the great things about being human is, you know, what we've been doing this weekend and is to look around and look into each other's eyes and talk and hear and help as much as we can.
[00:32:28] And, uh, yeah, it's just been, you know, just the couple weekends or a couple of days I've been here listening to some of the similar chats.
[00:32:36] You know, they go heart to heart.
[00:32:38] And I just think yesterday when Jim Danini was talking about the loss of his son, I'll start to cry about that, is because, you know, Jim had to stop and collect himself.
[00:32:49] And so did everybody else.
[00:32:52] There wasn't no one there.
[00:32:54] No one spoke.
[00:32:55] And, you know, I gotta regulate myself as I do now, go to my breathing and think about my heart as I did yesterday.
[00:33:04] And that's something humans can do with each other.
[00:33:07] So good on us.
[00:33:12] We'll switch gears, uh, a little bit to, to take things back up a little bit.
[00:33:17] Although I have, I have some more, I have some more.
[00:33:20] Don't worry.
[00:33:21] Um, you know, I consider myself the Oprah of, uh, climbing podcasts.
[00:33:29] Which takes me right to Oprah interviewing Cormac McCarthy.
[00:33:34] Anyways, you'll have to watch that.
[00:33:36] If you haven't seen it, watch it on YouTube.
[00:33:38] Yeah, he, he had her number.
[00:33:40] Um, I don't have the billions though.
[00:33:43] So anyway, but, uh, let's talk about your, uh, your heritage, your ancestral heritage, uh, indigenous roots and your family.
[00:33:52] Um, you, you gave us a hint of your upbringing when we talked about the bus ride.
[00:33:56] And I, and I think like, again, this fourth quarter, this, this halcyon days of your twenties, you know, I talk about how I had no political.
[00:34:08] Or cares about, you know, some of the things that are, are kind of rocking climbing these days with inclusion.
[00:34:13] And, and all these movements that are trying to make the community better.
[00:34:17] Like none of that stuff occurred to me in my twenties.
[00:34:19] I, I was so disconnected.
[00:34:20] And I feel like maybe that's the case too with my friends.
[00:34:24] Some of my friends who do have, you know, any type of family heritage that's, um, you know, sort of broad and, and has, you know, a spiritual depth to it, including indigenous people.
[00:34:34] Some people come back to that a little bit later.
[00:34:37] How did that through line of, of those roots, the roots of your family kind of roll through your climbing career in those, in those first years?
[00:34:45] You know, if it quotes like I'm my mother's son and I, it feels like in, in this part of your life, the fourth quarter, that's become very important to you.
[00:34:53] The rituals and the things that connect you to that past.
[00:34:56] So can you talk about whether or not that was on your mind as this go-getter climber in your twenties?
[00:35:02] Um, did it, did it start to be, have more meaning later or was it always there?
[00:35:06] Your connection to it, that is.
[00:35:08] Yeah.
[00:35:09] And, uh, my, my, and maybe just explain your, your, your, yeah.
[00:35:14] Your tribal roots.
[00:35:15] My, my family is MĂ©tis and, uh, I have my sideways infinity sign on a blue, uh, black ground, which is the MĂ©tis nation sign.
[00:35:25] Cause the MĂ©tis nation will last forever.
[00:35:27] And that's what that sign means or that flag.
[00:35:31] And yeah, you know, so much of MĂ©tis history and, and my father was not MĂ©tis, but my mother is, and I'm really my mother's son.
[00:35:44] Although, yeah, you know, my father's son too, but, um, you know, uh, our, our family history recently, um, has largely, um,
[00:35:55] been about, uh, uh, uh, women holding the family together.
[00:36:01] MĂ©tis families largely, uh, specifically since the Riel rebellion, when the MĂ©tis were very, very, uh, pushed aside and, and trod on by Canada.
[00:36:13] And, uh, you know, my, my grandfather was raised on a road allowance land that nobody else wanted in Saskatchewan where, you know, the MĂ©tis built houses and raised families.
[00:36:26] And like a lot of other indigenous nations in Canada, a lot of Canada tried to get rid of us or have us assimilate into Canada.
[00:36:37] And, uh, so much of the pride now is that didn't work.
[00:36:41] We're here and, uh, we're proud and we're strong.
[00:36:45] And, uh, yeah, this, uh, early part of my life, you know, I had prejudism and, uh, like a lot of guys or MĂ©tis my age did, uh, more so in Saskatchewan than Alberta, but also in Alberta.
[00:37:01] And I tried to be like the blue eyed guys that I went to school with and a lot of, you know, become my friends and climbing partners, but I was dark skinned, dark eyed and different.
[00:37:15] And for a certain amount of my life, the first, uh, quarter I tried to fit in, but then in the second quarter, it's like, okay, I don't fit in.
[00:37:26] I'm, I'm, I'm MĂ©tis, I'm different.
[00:37:28] And it's been a long, long, long, long time since I've cut my hair and I just never cut my hair.
[00:37:37] Saves a lot of money for one thing.
[00:37:39] But, um, you know, one of my, uh, cousins says, uh, a native man without his hair is not a native man.
[00:37:47] So I, you know, I carry that.
[00:37:50] And, um, yeah, since, uh, you know, going, going to my mom and telling her that I'm proud to be her daughter or her son.
[00:38:01] And, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:38:04] I'm also proud of my sisters too.
[00:38:07] And, uh, you know, having a great bonding with my mother and having some of the darkness then to like, you know, some of the stuff Kevin really rested life, of course, are pretty classic.
[00:38:20] Why are we here?
[00:38:22] Where did I come from?
[00:38:23] Where am I going?
[00:38:24] What is existence basically?
[00:38:26] And having my mother, you know, grab me in her arms and say, son, we've always treated everyone as a human being.
[00:38:36] And that's just such an important statement to me that I carry.
[00:38:40] And now, you know, I try to learn more, um, spending time with Siksika people and Tsutina people and Stony Nakoda people.
[00:38:51] And just getting to the point where I can look out and these are all of my relations and everything out there is alive.
[00:39:01] Nothing is dead.
[00:39:02] It all has spirit and it all has a life.
[00:39:06] So when I climb on Iomanutka, you know, which I've done for over 500 days and really quite recently, it is an ancestor and it is a teacher and it is a guide to life as is the other ancestors up there.
[00:39:27] One of the trees that I commonly go back to, and it's a tough place to make a living as a tree.
[00:39:32] But me and this tree, we bond each time and the tree is getting bigger with roots deeper and deeper into Iomanutka.
[00:39:41] And I've been, yeah, I'm getting bigger now with roots into Iomanutka.
[00:39:49] And it's an ancestor.
[00:39:50] And, uh, yeah, something I respect.
[00:39:53] At the same time, there's a tremendous amount of danger there.
[00:39:57] But, uh, yeah, you don't get ancestors that, uh, don't come out complicated.
[00:40:03] So, yeah.
[00:40:04] Well, it's interesting you say that you felt at first like you needed to be a part of sort of mainstream society or whatever was being pushed as that.
[00:40:13] Um, but then you found climbing and, and, and you felt, uh, like, okay, forget it.
[00:40:19] I can be who I am.
[00:40:20] And, and those two things might almost be the other way around.
[00:40:23] Climbing showed you that you could be in this group where it didn't, didn't so much matter.
[00:40:29] Because that's one through line with, with, again, the stories that I've, I've gathered is that a lot of times climbers, they, they have this feeling of rejecting the things they're supposed to do or, and having sort of the courage to be an outsider.
[00:40:43] And be comfortable with that because once they're in the climbing community or they have this circle of friends like you did, you're no longer an outsider.
[00:40:50] So it's interesting to hear you say that maybe you were prone to looking for a place where you could be an outsider and be yourself with the, with the climbers that you found.
[00:40:59] Yeah.
[00:41:00] It's a tribe.
[00:41:01] And, uh, yeah, yeah.
[00:41:04] Yeah.
[00:41:05] Back to the ancestor of Iamanuska and going there for a solo at one point on a Brian Greenwood route.
[00:41:13] And knowing the European heritage that's in my bloodstream and having known Brian and at the same time, looking out to a powwow that I'd been to and heard the singing and the dancing and the four chord kind of spiral of that, uh, uh, of those joined voices around a drum.
[00:41:40] And yeah, like so many MĂ©tis feeling a foot in each world, like, uh, Canadian society or, you know, you know, another word would be colonists and then an indigenous society.
[00:41:55] And as MĂ©tis, we're often not invited into either.
[00:41:59] So we have to make our own.
[00:42:02] That's where the climbers came in.
[00:42:03] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:42:04] We have this very small connection or past.
[00:42:08] We met, um, I think in 1999, actually, I was working at the Colorado mountain school or, um, was there.
[00:42:15] I had worked there.
[00:42:16] I don't know if I was working there that year, but a friend of mine named Marco Cornicchioni,
[00:42:19] we had designs on climbing this unrepeated route of berries on the North pillar of North Twin.
[00:42:26] Unrepeated at that time.
[00:42:27] It's been repeated.
[00:42:29] Uh, 83, 82, something like that.
[00:42:32] Um, we were like, why is this route that everyone talks about not been done?
[00:42:36] What are these Canadians up to?
[00:42:38] Uh, lazy, I guess.
[00:42:39] I don't know.
[00:42:41] And so we, as like, okay, Alpine climbers, we're like, let's go do it.
[00:42:46] And I ran in, I think it was like in a hallway, um, at the mountain school.
[00:42:50] He, he, Barry was there working, doing some, some program.
[00:42:53] Uh, and, uh, I hit him up and like, I totally remember, maybe I've made this up, but you
[00:42:59] know, his eyes were kind of like, who are you now?
[00:43:01] And I was like, yeah, we want to go to the North pillar, North twin, you know, this like
[00:43:05] climb.
[00:43:06] That's, you know, one of the pillars to, to use a pun of, of your climbing career.
[00:43:10] And this like young dude was like, yeah, we're just going to go send that thing.
[00:43:14] Don't worry about it.
[00:43:15] And like, he gave me a little beta and just was kind of like, yeah, it's, you know, it's
[00:43:19] pretty hard.
[00:43:20] And like a lot of rock fall.
[00:43:22] And so anyway, we did go try it.
[00:43:25] And by try, I mean, we hiked in and looked at it and turned around like literally within
[00:43:31] minutes of seeing it.
[00:43:33] Um, cause you can't see it until you're, you've done a massive hike up a massive scree slope
[00:43:38] and we saw it and we're like, yeah, what else could we, could we go sport climbing?
[00:43:42] I don't know.
[00:43:42] So, although that trip did start my own, uh, history here, which, which was like five
[00:43:48] years of climbing around the bow Valley and in the ghost river.
[00:43:50] But yeah, I wanted to talk about that climb because I mean, it, it, it, it was an important
[00:43:55] climb and maybe, maybe not even talk about the climb, but, um, about David Cheeseman, a
[00:44:00] partner for whom you, you guys were fireballs for a while, just, uh, doing some incredible,
[00:44:05] incredible stuff.
[00:44:06] And then he passed away, uh, on the hummingbird Ridge.
[00:44:10] And you've described that moment as your loss of idealism.
[00:44:15] And I was kind of wondering, I mean, we could talk about the climb, but also how his passing
[00:44:21] changed the way you climbed.
[00:44:23] And there's another quote where, where you later on or, or some other time, you talked
[00:44:28] about the difference between making decisions with your head and with your heart.
[00:44:32] And, um, I wonder if that was sort of maybe the initial part of that or tied to that at
[00:44:37] all.
[00:44:38] But can you talk about David and, and, uh, I know we're going to get heavy again here.
[00:44:42] I got, I got a way out though.
[00:44:43] Um, and, and, and again, maybe that shift in your idealism and what it did to your climbing.
[00:44:51] Yeah.
[00:44:52] Um, yes.
[00:44:53] Second quarter stuff, trying to find perfection.
[00:44:58] And, uh, you know, I, we tried to be perfect alpinists.
[00:45:03] And one of the, uh, great things about the mountains is hubris.
[00:45:09] It gets kicked out of you so soon, so early because we're so small and insignificant compared
[00:45:16] to what the mountains, especially when a storm is hammering into a mountain, the forces that
[00:45:22] are around, you know, it's sometimes it's all we can, you know, we can do to survive.
[00:45:28] And yeah, man, David.
[00:45:33] Yeah.
[00:45:34] The change after trying to find perfection and along with the loss of David and earlier,
[00:45:43] the loss of John Laughlin, but not so much John Laughlin, but David who I climbed with
[00:45:48] and who I couldn't say at the time that I couldn't say, geez, you know, I love you.
[00:45:55] And, um, yeah, um, that, that, that's gone.
[00:45:59] You know, I have no problem telling the people I love male, female, uh, animals, whatever that
[00:46:06] I love them mountains that I love them.
[00:46:08] Um, that that's here now.
[00:46:10] And that was a part of that, that change.
[00:46:13] But, uh, yeah, you know, trying to find perfection, perfection exists for gods.
[00:46:20] It doesn't exist for human beings.
[00:46:21] We do not get perfection.
[00:46:23] We aspire to perfection and we have some gradation of trying to get better.
[00:46:30] And yeah, Dave, after Dave died, I didn't climb.
[00:46:37] I, I had, uh, an accident.
[00:46:40] I lost a couple of clients.
[00:46:43] I suffered some physical memory of that.
[00:46:47] Some of it's right here.
[00:46:47] There's two pieces of wire that I, that are there there that I carry them with me.
[00:46:52] And then, yeah, losing David.
[00:46:56] Yeah.
[00:46:57] I didn't climb for a year and yeah, it was, that was my catabasis.
[00:47:03] And it was love of a partner and friends and family and colleagues who gave me the hands
[00:47:13] and held my hand basically, which is metaphorical, but reached down and came into this place I was,
[00:47:22] which was, you know, catabasis means a fall to the bottom.
[00:47:26] I was in the pit and these friends and loved ones came in.
[00:47:32] And even if they didn't know what to say or do, and some of them knew what to say or do,
[00:47:38] they would say, I'm here with you and I'm not leaving.
[00:47:42] I'm here.
[00:47:43] I'm here for you.
[00:47:44] And if that just means sitting beside me or holding my hand or leaning against me,
[00:47:49] whatever, it doesn't need words.
[00:47:51] You know, that's heart to heart stuff and brings you up.
[00:47:56] And, you know, through that, some of my own mistakes.
[00:48:03] Yeah.
[00:48:04] I was never going to get ideal.
[00:48:06] I was never going to get perfect.
[00:48:07] I was never going to have idealism.
[00:48:10] Idealism kind of left me as did perfection.
[00:48:14] And the mathematical equation I tried to apply to mountains to come up,
[00:48:18] become a perfect alpinist to be this good at this, this good at this, this good at this,
[00:48:22] this good at this, and have a spreadsheet.
[00:48:24] When I looked at a mountain, mountains are far too complex and far too, too complicated.
[00:48:30] And there's a term that, you know, scientists use called trans-calculational,
[00:48:35] which means beyond the scope of human understanding.
[00:48:38] And mountains are trans-calculational.
[00:48:41] So I'm a human and that's the way it's going to be.
[00:48:44] And I'm going to have to make decisions not from my head so much, but from my heart.
[00:48:50] And then, you know, the birth of my daughters.
[00:48:54] Man, you know, one of the things right after Rosemary, my eldest daughter who's now at university,
[00:49:02] was born six months later, we're off in the Waddington range.
[00:49:06] Three middle-aged men who all got young children.
[00:49:10] James Blench, Mark Wilford, and myself.
[00:49:12] And we're trying these hard routes.
[00:49:14] And they're serious.
[00:49:16] You got to make hundreds of decisions every day about, a lot of them are, especially with snow,
[00:49:20] if you're going to advance your foot or your hand into a slope, make that next thing and think,
[00:49:27] okay, that's good enough to make the next thing.
[00:49:30] And each and every one of those decisions I was making, I would see Rosemary's face.
[00:49:37] And that's hard, you know.
[00:49:39] And my tolerance for risk, which was through the roof in the first quarter,
[00:49:46] in the second and third quarter, have come quite a bit lower.
[00:49:50] So, yeah.
[00:49:52] Yeah.
[00:49:52] I don't know if that answers your question.
[00:49:54] No, it does.
[00:49:55] And you guessed my way out, actually.
[00:49:59] So, yeah, it does.
[00:50:01] It does.
[00:50:01] And, you know, the, like the darkness, like I said, it's there because if you, you know,
[00:50:08] it's sort of a cliche, but if you climb long enough, then you're going to lose friends.
[00:50:12] And it just happens.
[00:50:13] I mean, I guess there's people that get through without that happening, but I don't see how,
[00:50:18] at least by degrees.
[00:50:19] So, it's something that's, I think, worth talking about.
[00:50:22] But it's hard to talk about when you're in it, when you're in that, again, that mode of one trip after another.
[00:50:30] So, I appreciate you talking about it.
[00:50:32] Finally, you know, part of my how are you still alive question gets pretty current.
[00:50:38] Because, ironically, you survived avalanches and falls and anchors ripping and horrible nights out one after another to have a relatively recent,
[00:50:53] about five years ago, I think now, or four, it was pandemic time.
[00:50:58] So, fall down a set of stairs and basically, you know, cracking your head open and should have died again.
[00:51:09] Oh, one other thing I'd like to say is that Barry has another book in the offing.
[00:51:14] It's, you know, I guess you say it's pretty much the manuscript's been handed in.
[00:51:20] So, we can look forward to the third and fourth quarter.
[00:51:23] And that book, I think, is what it's really about.
[00:51:25] And this is in there as well.
[00:51:27] I've had the privilege of reading the chapters where he talks about this.
[00:51:30] So, can you, we'll finish up with just a little bit of this story and once again, how it changed your outlook about life.
[00:51:38] Because I think it was another, yet another large shift in the way you see things and the way you see other people.
[00:51:45] Yeah, yeah.
[00:51:48] Part of that shift is the fact that I grew up in Calgary.
[00:51:54] But my ancestral homeland is the Koppel Valley of southern Saskatchewan where the MĂ©tis have lived for a long time.
[00:52:01] And my family is rooted so deeply in the Koppel.
[00:52:04] So, part of my own journey is realizing I have to go back and spend time with my family.
[00:52:11] And my mom had 81 first cousins.
[00:52:14] So, there's a lot of family there.
[00:52:16] Not all of them are still alive, of course.
[00:52:18] But there's a tremendous amount of family.
[00:52:21] And it's important for me to get back to that place.
[00:52:25] So, with my daughters, every year we would go back to visit my mother, their grandmother, in Saskatchewan.
[00:52:33] And on the way, we'd often stop at my buddy's farmhouse and spend a couple days.
[00:52:39] Because his daughters are the same as our daughters.
[00:52:42] And they get along like a house on fire.
[00:52:45] And, you know, common for the first night for us to have the girls go to bed.
[00:52:49] And me and my partner and my buddy and his wife will sit around and just share the best music we've found in the last year.
[00:52:58] And this is rural Saskatchewan.
[00:53:00] So, you're dealing with very little Wi-Fi.
[00:53:04] All that kind of stuff.
[00:53:05] So, you're using a computer and you're playing these songs to each other.
[00:53:09] And I'd just done one.
[00:53:10] It's a cover of Mercy now.
[00:53:13] And it's a beautiful, beautiful song.
[00:53:15] And the cover is fabulous.
[00:53:19] And, yeah, it's time to go to bed.
[00:53:21] My buddy's showing me down the stairs to where I'm going to sleep.
[00:53:23] And my partner wasn't there.
[00:53:25] She's working in Canmore.
[00:53:26] She's going to come up in a couple days when it's time to see Grandma.
[00:53:30] We're going down the stairs.
[00:53:31] And I don't remember anything from playing that last song to a couple weeks later.
[00:53:37] And I fall down these stairs and have a traumatic head injury where I have 11 skull fractures, if you can believe that.
[00:53:44] And, you know, four of the fractures are very life-threatening.
[00:53:48] There's a subdural hematoma, two arachnoidal hematomas, a basal skull fracture.
[00:53:53] And I can see my buddy who's a doctor sitting over there.
[00:53:55] So, he's confuputing all that stuff very quickly.
[00:54:00] And, you know, a lot of people don't survive those types of injuries.
[00:54:03] So, I have nothing to complain about, nothing at all.
[00:54:07] Because I'm still here.
[00:54:09] And my buddy went to work on me right away.
[00:54:11] He's 20-plus years with the Regina Fire Department.
[00:54:14] His wife is the deputy chief of the police department in Regina.
[00:54:18] So, he shouts up to her,
[00:54:20] Get an ambulance!
[00:54:21] And he starts working on me.
[00:54:23] And, you know, I'm already blabbering and going unconscious.
[00:54:27] And I don't remember any of this.
[00:54:29] I've been told it over time.
[00:54:30] And it's been hard for my buddy to tell me this.
[00:54:33] He hasn't been able to talk about it on the phone.
[00:54:35] It has to be face-to-face.
[00:54:37] And he gets down there.
[00:54:38] There's blood and cerebral spinal fluid come on my ear.
[00:54:41] And I'm choking on my own blood and stuff.
[00:54:44] And I'm going unconscious.
[00:54:45] And I'm posturing.
[00:54:47] That's one of the things he's shared with me recently.
[00:54:50] Which is, my back is arched super hard.
[00:54:52] My wrists and elbows and shoulders are locked.
[00:54:56] And my hands, I don't know which way they go.
[00:54:59] But he said in one of the forms of posturing,
[00:55:02] which is the brain stem getting pushed on.
[00:55:04] If your hands are curling in this way, say it.
[00:55:08] He said he's never seen anyone come back from that.
[00:55:11] He knows that people are on the way out.
[00:55:13] Mine were the other way.
[00:55:14] And he's trying to straighten.
[00:55:15] He's a big, strong farm boy.
[00:55:17] Like, powerful man.
[00:55:18] He cannot straighten my limbs.
[00:55:21] So the ambulance, well, the ambulance arrives.
[00:55:26] And my buddy's been scooping blood out of my mouth
[00:55:29] and giving me mouth-to-mouth.
[00:55:31] And he doesn't like me sharing that with people.
[00:55:34] But there you go.
[00:55:34] He's basically kissing me.
[00:55:37] He doesn't have suction.
[00:55:38] So he's scooping blood out of my mouth.
[00:55:40] Paramedic shows up, looks at me,
[00:55:43] starts to work.
[00:55:43] He says, let's phone for the helicopter.
[00:55:45] Helicopter's out.
[00:55:46] So the paramedic says, okay, put him in the ambulance.
[00:55:49] We're going to Regina.
[00:55:50] And my buddy hops in the back
[00:55:52] and bag valve masks me all the way to Regina.
[00:55:55] And then I get in the hospital.
[00:55:57] I'm immediately in the care of a neurosurgeon.
[00:56:00] And oxygen is so important to the body.
[00:56:03] And with those injuries,
[00:56:05] 2% of the body mass,
[00:56:07] the brain needs 20% of the oxygen.
[00:56:09] So any oxygen that you're getting in that point is help.
[00:56:13] And, you know, people ask me,
[00:56:16] how is your recovery?
[00:56:17] And I'm not recovered.
[00:56:18] I have a new normal.
[00:56:20] Danini and I were talking about this yesterday.
[00:56:22] The new normal is great.
[00:56:24] You know, I can do the things
[00:56:25] that I really love to do as Jim can.
[00:56:28] And yeah, miracles of modern medicine.
[00:56:31] And yeah, so yeah, did I, what was the question?
[00:56:40] That was great.
[00:56:41] Don't worry about it.
[00:56:43] No, I think, you know,
[00:56:45] you talked about your daughters, right?
[00:56:47] Yeah.
[00:56:48] This transition in life,
[00:56:50] changing the way you were climbing,
[00:56:52] you know, you were seeing them.
[00:56:53] And I feel like, you know,
[00:56:55] it may be sort of cliche,
[00:56:57] but it was a cling to life for them moment for you.
[00:57:01] It seems like.
[00:57:03] And having dreams and memories of,
[00:57:06] of, of, you know,
[00:57:08] all the other near misses
[00:57:09] made you appreciate being alive for this chapter.
[00:57:13] Yeah.
[00:57:13] Yeah.
[00:57:14] And this chapter,
[00:57:15] the fourth chapter is so much about enjoying the mountains.
[00:57:20] Yes.
[00:57:20] But so much about my daughters and helping them.
[00:57:25] They're in their first quarter, both of them.
[00:57:28] So trying to help them in their launch into life.
[00:57:33] And, you know,
[00:57:34] one of the other podcasts about guides,
[00:57:36] the guides asked me,
[00:57:37] how do you want to be remembered?
[00:57:38] And I want to be remembered as a good father.
[00:57:41] That's it.
[00:57:42] And, you know,
[00:57:42] the writing and the climbing,
[00:57:44] that's all great and good.
[00:57:45] And I appreciate it.
[00:57:46] But being a father is the single most important thing that I do.
[00:57:51] By,
[00:57:51] by such a long shot that that is the thing that I'd love to be remembered by.
[00:57:56] And part of your recovery was not getting,
[00:57:58] you know,
[00:58:00] going from,
[00:58:00] you know,
[00:58:01] not having control of your body to,
[00:58:03] again,
[00:58:04] being able to climb a little bit and being able to guide and being able to
[00:58:07] ice climb.
[00:58:08] I mean,
[00:58:10] obviously there's like this,
[00:58:11] this,
[00:58:20] moments of,
[00:58:20] of anger over like,
[00:58:22] why did I fall down stairs after all these years of surviving?
[00:58:27] I mean,
[00:58:27] do you remember any of that or was it,
[00:58:29] you're just glad to be alive and I'm going forward?
[00:58:31] Yeah,
[00:58:32] no,
[00:58:32] it was quite dark.
[00:58:33] There was more darkness and it happened.
[00:58:37] You know,
[00:58:38] a couple,
[00:58:40] once I got my,
[00:58:41] my neurons starting to connect again.
[00:58:44] And a beautiful part of this story is around the 12 day mark in the hospital.
[00:58:51] And,
[00:58:52] um,
[00:58:52] I've been told this.
[00:58:53] I don't think I remember it,
[00:58:55] but one day,
[00:58:57] you know,
[00:58:57] my sister and my partner,
[00:58:59] Nicole,
[00:59:00] my fiance were splitting times in the hospital with me because it was COVID and only one could be in the room at a time.
[00:59:06] So Nicole is taking the afternoon shift and I'm there.
[00:59:10] And I think I got up and was able to put my hand against the wall and walk to the John and take a pee,
[00:59:15] which was Olympic.
[00:59:16] That was a gold medal event during that kind of stuff.
[00:59:19] And anyways,
[00:59:20] there's this young,
[00:59:22] attractive nurse and she's dark haired and she's beautiful and she's being paying me a lot of attention.
[00:59:30] And yeah,
[00:59:31] it's like,
[00:59:31] wow,
[00:59:32] this is really cool.
[00:59:33] And then,
[00:59:33] you know,
[00:59:34] she goes to hug me and I become an unregulated,
[00:59:38] scared little animal.
[00:59:39] I'm into flight mode.
[00:59:41] It's like,
[00:59:41] whoa,
[00:59:41] whoa,
[00:59:42] you can't do that.
[00:59:43] I have a girlfriend and she's in Canmore and she's older than you and she's blonde.
[00:59:48] And then I won't even look at this person.
[00:59:50] And it is my fiance and I haven't been able to recognize her and I haven't found any names yet.
[00:59:57] I talked to the phone with my daughters and all I say is sweetie.
[01:00:01] I haven't found anybody's name.
[01:00:03] And,
[01:00:04] you know,
[01:00:04] I'm freaked out and Nicole is starting to freak out.
[01:00:07] Like,
[01:00:07] what if he never recognizes me again?
[01:00:09] And then I say,
[01:00:11] get the other woman,
[01:00:11] get the other woman.
[01:00:12] And that's my sister.
[01:00:14] And,
[01:00:14] you know,
[01:00:15] I don't know my sister's name.
[01:00:16] And she tries to call my sister,
[01:00:19] doesn't get my sister on the phone.
[01:00:20] She calls my mom.
[01:00:22] She gets my mom on the phone and she says,
[01:00:25] Barry,
[01:00:25] someone wants to talk to you.
[01:00:27] And I knew how to work the phone.
[01:00:28] I put the phone to my ear and I'm still,
[01:00:30] you know,
[01:00:31] trying not to look at this person.
[01:00:33] And I hear my mother's voice and she says,
[01:00:36] Oh bear.
[01:00:38] And I went,
[01:00:39] everything relaxed.
[01:00:41] You know,
[01:00:42] Nicole works with psychology.
[01:00:44] She said,
[01:00:45] you got regulated instantly.
[01:00:48] And you went,
[01:00:49] Oh mom.
[01:00:50] First word I found was my mother's name.
[01:00:54] And I didn't even see her face.
[01:00:57] It just heard her voice.
[01:00:58] And my longest association with a human voice is my mother.
[01:01:03] That's the first voice I heard and heard for so long.
[01:01:08] And yeah,
[01:01:10] yeah,
[01:01:10] pretty beautiful.
[01:01:12] And,
[01:01:12] uh,
[01:01:12] the next day after Nicole's girlfriend came out for three hours from Prince,
[01:01:17] Prince George or Prince Albert to talk to her through the night at the farmhouse,
[01:01:22] the next day,
[01:01:23] you know,
[01:01:23] some neurons that connected and it's like,
[01:01:25] Oh,
[01:01:25] you are Nicole.
[01:01:26] You can hug me.
[01:01:30] So yeah.
[01:01:31] Yeah.
[01:01:32] Did I answer the question or did I sidestep the question?
[01:01:36] Go somewhere else.
[01:01:40] Okay.
[01:01:41] Unfortunately we've reached time,
[01:01:42] but I'm going to ask one more to finish up here.
[01:01:45] Uh,
[01:01:45] you said in the book,
[01:01:47] maybe in the film,
[01:01:48] maybe both,
[01:01:49] um,
[01:01:49] you know,
[01:01:49] back in the day climbing was the reason for living.
[01:01:52] And I think that you've obviously changed that attitude.
[01:01:57] Um,
[01:01:57] you have other reasons for living now,
[01:01:59] but a lot of young climbers,
[01:02:02] youngish climbers or whatever.
[01:02:03] I mean,
[01:02:04] that's the attitude that we adopt.
[01:02:06] A lot of times we found this thing.
[01:02:08] It's this fireball that,
[01:02:09] that we want to be a part of.
[01:02:11] And,
[01:02:11] and we give up at least for a time,
[01:02:14] lots of things in our lives,
[01:02:16] you know,
[01:02:16] not talking about privilege or anything else,
[01:02:19] but you oftentimes give up possibilities of partnerships,
[01:02:23] romantic partnerships,
[01:02:24] possibilities of career,
[01:02:26] all these,
[01:02:26] all these sorts of things.
[01:02:27] And even connections to your family,
[01:02:29] just because you've changed your attitude.
[01:02:31] What is,
[01:02:31] what is your sort of advice to those people?
[01:02:34] Is it,
[01:02:35] is it still worth it to just spend that time living for climbing and get to
[01:02:40] the rest later?
[01:02:41] Or do you,
[01:02:42] is there a caution in,
[01:02:43] in your story of,
[01:02:44] of those years of just living?
[01:02:46] For climbing.
[01:02:48] I would say just live for climbing.
[01:02:51] I'd encourage,
[01:02:52] uh,
[01:02:53] young climbers to read Joseph Campbell's book,
[01:02:56] hero with a thousand faces and see the,
[01:03:00] the,
[01:03:01] the,
[01:03:01] uh,
[01:03:02] mythological pattern of,
[01:03:04] uh,
[01:03:05] you know,
[01:03:06] in one,
[01:03:06] one way,
[01:03:07] leaving the tribe,
[01:03:09] going into the wilderness,
[01:03:10] away from the tribe,
[01:03:13] having battles and,
[01:03:15] uh,
[01:03:15] discovering what is in the wilderness and then bringing that back to the tribe.
[01:03:20] I would add the caveat that the wilderness is really dangerous.
[01:03:24] So take your time.
[01:03:27] And,
[01:03:27] you know,
[01:03:28] my first,
[01:03:29] uh,
[01:03:30] season in Chamonix in 1980,
[01:03:32] when Kevin and I kind of committed to being alpinists,
[01:03:36] the older British alpinists there had a great line for us.
[01:03:39] It was tread lightly,
[01:03:41] lads,
[01:03:42] tread lightly.
[01:03:44] And yeah,
[01:03:45] you need to take baby steps because there's no one out there to put a gate in front of you that said,
[01:03:50] oh no,
[01:03:51] you can't do that.
[01:03:53] You know,
[01:03:53] finance did some of that for me.
[01:03:55] No,
[01:03:55] you can't come down from Alaska and immediately get on a jet to go to,
[01:04:00] you know,
[01:04:01] Antarctica or Patagonia or Karakorum or whatever.
[01:04:05] You're going to have to work for a year to try to figure that out.
[01:04:08] But,
[01:04:09] uh,
[01:04:10] yeah,
[01:04:10] there's,
[01:04:11] there's,
[01:04:11] you know,
[01:04:12] no boundaries to that.
[01:04:13] So,
[01:04:14] yeah,
[01:04:15] go in with humility and realize that,
[01:04:20] uh,
[01:04:21] we're such small,
[01:04:22] small things.
[01:04:24] Every so often you'll hear say,
[01:04:25] someone say,
[01:04:26] you know,
[01:04:27] they probably,
[01:04:27] Cheeseman and I would do that.
[01:04:29] You know,
[01:04:30] oh,
[01:04:30] that person made a mistake,
[01:04:32] right?
[01:04:33] Yeah.
[01:04:33] The mistake is forgetting that you're,
[01:04:36] you're playing with fire.
[01:04:38] You found a fireball,
[01:04:39] but you're playing with fire and the mountain may become dark and express
[01:04:45] itself darkly.
[01:04:46] So take your time and,
[01:04:49] you know,
[01:04:50] the,
[01:04:51] the nine lives or whatever,
[01:04:53] as you get better,
[01:04:54] it's yeah,
[01:04:56] that,
[01:04:57] that person is hard to kill.
[01:04:59] Uh,
[01:04:59] none of us are hard to kill.
[01:05:00] We're big bags of water.
[01:05:02] It doesn't take much to kill us.
[01:05:04] And,
[01:05:05] uh,
[01:05:06] yeah,
[01:05:06] but you get to be,
[01:05:08] a thicker jar of water,
[01:05:10] a little harder.
[01:05:11] And then there's luck,
[01:05:12] man,
[01:05:13] you know,
[01:05:14] a couple of times,
[01:05:15] number it's,
[01:05:16] well,
[01:05:16] several times I've been just lucky.
[01:05:18] I was literally standing six inches to the left.
[01:05:21] And if I stood six inches to the right,
[01:05:23] I wouldn't be here.
[01:05:24] And that's just dumb luck.
[01:05:25] Well,
[01:05:26] maybe we're trying to shelter under a wall or something,
[01:05:29] but luck too.
[01:05:31] Yeah,
[01:05:31] yeah,
[01:05:31] yeah.
[01:05:32] Take your time.
[01:05:34] Awesome.
[01:05:35] Well,
[01:05:35] we're out of time.
[01:05:36] And,
[01:05:37] uh,
[01:05:37] again,
[01:05:37] it was like a,
[01:05:38] it was a great interview,
[01:05:40] but as far as the climbing is concerned,
[01:05:42] it's like a drone view of,
[01:05:43] of all the things that Barry's accomplished with his climbing.
[01:05:46] Although I think we got to the,
[01:05:47] the,
[01:05:48] the more important stuff here today.
[01:05:49] And I really appreciate your candidness,
[01:05:51] uh,
[01:05:51] in front of your hometown crowd and,
[01:05:54] uh,
[01:05:54] in front of me,
[01:05:55] a virtual stranger to some extent.
[01:05:57] So I appreciate it,
[01:05:58] Barry.
[01:05:59] And I'd love for everybody to give you a round of applause.
[01:06:14] There we go.
[01:06:49] All right,
[01:06:50] folks.
[01:06:50] Thanks for listening.
[01:06:51] Thanks to the Banff center and the Banff mountain film festival for hosting
[01:06:55] that.
[01:06:56] And of course,
[01:06:57] thanks to Barry Blanchard for coming and sitting down.
[01:07:00] Those words of praise felt good.
[01:07:03] What a great guy.
[01:07:04] Hopefully we'll see him back here soon on the in normal cast.
[01:07:08] And it's a little bit of a weak bid to put it here on the outro,
[01:07:10] but news just in from Australia.
[01:07:14] Big closures at Montorapoles.
[01:07:16] Montorapoles played a very important and formative part of my climbing.
[01:07:21] I think we've talked about it here on the show before,
[01:07:23] but it was my first international trip was to go climb in Australia and it
[01:07:29] helped form who I was as a traveling climber for the next few years of my
[01:07:34] life,
[01:07:35] decade and a half,
[01:07:36] maybe more.
[01:07:36] I can't remember now,
[01:07:38] but it went on and on and on and it started in Australia.
[01:07:41] So I'll probably talk about it upfront.
[01:07:43] On the next show.
[01:07:44] But if you love world climbing,
[01:07:46] if you love traveling to climb and you ever thought about going to one of those
[01:07:50] places that Simon Carter photographed so beautifully recently in his book,
[01:07:56] the art of climbing,
[01:07:57] talk to him a few episodes ago.
[01:08:00] It's such a special place.
[01:08:01] Montorapoles.
[01:08:02] There's been these blanket closures,
[01:08:05] very little or no consultation with climbers out of the blue,
[01:08:10] done in secrecy,
[01:08:11] a terrible harbinger for closures everywhere.
[01:08:15] So if you want to have your voice heard from even across the ocean or you Australian and
[01:08:21] Victoria climbers that are listening,
[01:08:23] go to savegrampionsclimbing.org and the information on the bands are there.
[01:08:30] And what,
[01:08:31] if anything you can do to help out,
[01:08:33] to make your voice heard from all the way here in North America or wherever you are in
[01:08:37] the world.
[01:08:39] Arapoles is a special place.
[01:08:40] It's a world climbing center.
[01:08:42] I was trying to think about it in the United States.
[01:08:44] I think it'd be like if they just closed another 70% of the gunks,
[01:08:51] Devil's Lake,
[01:08:53] El Dorado Canyon,
[01:08:54] even Yosemite.
[01:08:56] It's that big a deal in Australia.
[01:08:57] It's that kind of climbing area.
[01:08:59] So yeah,
[01:09:00] check that out.
[01:09:01] Savegrampionsclimbing.org.
[01:09:02] It was a website made for when they were closing a bunch of stuff in the Grampians and they knew
[01:09:08] they were coming for Arapoles eventually.
[01:09:11] All right.
[01:09:13] Hope you guys are enjoying yourselves out there in the waning days of fall here in North America.
[01:09:18] The beginnings of spring,
[01:09:20] I guess,
[01:09:20] in Australia or well into spring.
[01:09:23] Maybe you're catching those waning sunny days.
[01:09:27] Maybe you're itching for ice climbing.
[01:09:29] Whatever it is,
[01:09:30] get out there,
[01:09:32] be safe,
[01:09:32] look out for each other,
[01:09:34] and of course,
[01:09:35] check your knots.
[01:09:56] Hey man.
[01:09:58] Howdy do, dude.
[01:09:59] I wonder if I see you again.
[01:10:01] Wouldn't miss the semi.
[01:10:03] How's it going?
[01:10:05] How's it going?
[01:10:05] Oh yeah.
[01:10:06] You know,
[01:10:06] strikes and gutters,
[01:10:07] ups and downs.
[01:10:08] I'm sure I've got you.
[01:10:10] Yeah.
[01:10:13] Thanks,
[01:10:13] Gary.
[01:10:14] Well,
[01:10:14] take care,
[01:10:15] man.
[01:10:15] Gotta get back.
[01:10:16] Sure.
[01:10:17] Take it easy,
[01:10:18] dude.
[01:10:18] Oh yeah.
[01:10:19] I know that you will.
[01:10:21] Yeah,
[01:10:22] well,
[01:10:24] the dude abides.
[01:10:25] See you then.
[01:10:25] See you then.
[01:10:28] Thank you.