Enormocast 290: Hayden Jamieson -Through the Valley of Darkness

On Episode 290 of the Enormocast, I sit down in a cool, dark hotel room on a bright and HOT day in Lander, WY with bigwall climber, Hayden Jamieson. Hayden and I both slumped into our chairs after escaping the 100 degree day outside and tried to gather ourselves for the interview, and that’s when …

Continue reading "Enormocast 290: Hayden Jamieson -Through the Valley of Darkness"

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_00]: You are listening to the Enormocast

[00:00:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Alright, alright, settle down everybody, settle down.

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, Black Diamond C4, take it away.

[00:00:11] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, is this thing on?

[00:00:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Alright everybody, I know you have a few questions.

[00:00:17] [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, you in the back, the Tread Dead with the SIG.

[00:00:20] [SPEAKER_07]: So it seems like I've had Black Diamond Camelots hanging off my racks since 1987.

[00:00:27] [SPEAKER_07]: How are you still so high on the horse boy?

[00:00:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, BD retools and redesigns on the rag.

[00:00:32] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm lighter, stronger with every upgrade.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Too bad we can't say the same about you, huh, Tread Dad?

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_01]: I can still hand jam.

[00:00:39] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, who's next?

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, the comp kid who crushes Tread now.

[00:00:43] [SPEAKER_02]: My mom bought me three sets of ultralight Camelots.

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_09]: Well kid, those ultralights are sweet.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_09]: But not everybody has a mom with a platinum card

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_09]: willing to buy her snookums whatever she wants, now do they?

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_09]: So yeah, ultralights are swell, the Ferraris.

[00:00:56] [SPEAKER_09]: But us C4 Camelots, we're down here in the trenches with you every day.

[00:01:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Know what I'm saying?

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Like the cam equivalent of your Tacoma.

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Just ask the Creek Climbers over there.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Hell yeah brother.

[00:01:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, one last question.

[00:01:08] [SPEAKER_09]: A guy on the internet that doesn't actually climb.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_01]: It says here that a number one C4 holds 12 kilonewtons

[00:01:15] [SPEAKER_01]: while this other brand holds 12.2 kilonewtons.

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: Now, in a situation where a factor two occurs after a meteor strike

[00:01:22] [SPEAKER_01]: resulting in an ionic reverse polarity electromagnetic shockwave

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_01]: the question is would my quad fail?

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_01]: Hold on a second buckaroo, have you ever actually placed a cam?

[00:01:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, no.

[00:01:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Alright, I gotta go.

[00:01:33] [SPEAKER_09]: But just remember there's only one black diamond C4 Camelot.

[00:01:37] [SPEAKER_09]: So quit screwing around and go to blackdiamondequipment.com

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_09]: or a local shop and give us a squeeze.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_09]: See what you think.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_09]: Camelots rule, imitators drool.

[00:01:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Peace.

[00:01:49] [SPEAKER_09]: When it comes to our climbing gear

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_09]: climbers revere stuff that works better than just good enough.

[00:01:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Safety first.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_09]: But then we also want smooth action in our cams,

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_09]: a rope that runs just right

[00:02:01] [SPEAKER_09]: and shoes that don't let us down

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_09]: and we want it all to last.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, the EnormaCast and Yeti

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_09]: want you to think about the rest of your kit the same way.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_09]: The Yeti Tundra Cooler has been the best cooler on the market

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_09]: for nearly 20 years.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_09]: You've seen them, envied them.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Now it's time to replace whatever smelly discount hotbox

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_09]: you have in the back of your truck

[00:02:21] [SPEAKER_09]: with something that actually works

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_09]: and will last basically forever.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_09]: A Tundra Cooler from Yeti.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_09]: You'd never put up with something that barely worked in your climbing gear

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_09]: so don't put up with outdoor and cargo gear that's only okay.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Visit Yeti.com or a Yeti dealer

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_09]: to see all their durable goods

[00:02:38] [SPEAKER_09]: find the perfect size Tundra Cooler today

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_09]: or tonight

[00:02:42] [SPEAKER_09]: or next time you get a minute

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_09]: just get it done

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_09]: so you can stop worrying if that soggy head of broccoli

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_09]: swimming in the warm pool at the bottom of your cooler

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_09]: is still edible.

[00:02:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Listen, where are you playing in town?

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_03]: Are you playing here?

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_03]: What are you doing the normal dome?

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_03]: Whatever it is, it's terrific.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh yeah, that's a big place.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a big place.

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_03]: It's so nice.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_08]: How's your day?

[00:03:06] [SPEAKER_08]: I really should.

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_03]: What the hell are you doing?

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't sleep.

[00:03:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm checking the roads.

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_03]: There was a freight end on Europe

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and I'm cutting it out.

[00:03:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Good weather, good weather.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_03]: No later, any time.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_00]: Today's show is brought to you by Black Timing Equipment,

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Law Sportiva,

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_00]: and with support from Maxim Ropes.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_00]: Maxim has been keeping the normal cast

[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_00]: off the deck since 2012.

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_09]: And now we can also thank the chill folks at Yeti

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_09]: and don't forget our charter sponsor,

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Bonfire Coffee.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_09]: Go to bonfirecoffee.com

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_09]: and entry normal at checkout

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_09]: to get a great deal on great coffee

[00:03:58] [SPEAKER_09]: and to support the normal cast.

[00:04:00] [SPEAKER_00]: And now back to the show.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_09]: Hello and welcome to the Normal Cast.

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_09]: This is your host, Chris Coluse.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_09]: It is about 10 a.m. on August 9th, 2024

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_09]: here in Colorado

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_09]: and this is Episode 290 of the Normal Cast,

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_09]: a conversation with big wall rock climber,

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Hayden Jameson.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_09]: And the royal we here at the Normal Cast,

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_09]: we're going to drop this thing

[00:04:32] [SPEAKER_09]: right in the middle of the height,

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_09]: the culmination of the Paris Olympic

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Sport Climbing Championship results.

[00:04:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Speed climbing has finished.

[00:04:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Our boy Sam Watson went up against Reza Alipour

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_09]: and came out with the bronze medal.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_09]: A dream matchup for me

[00:04:51] [SPEAKER_09]: because I've been following Reza for quite a few years.

[00:04:55] [SPEAKER_09]: He's fantastic.

[00:04:56] [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry Reza, came up empty-handed

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_09]: but you were there in the mix, sir.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_09]: Everyone in climbing knows it's not a smart idea

[00:05:04] [SPEAKER_09]: to pit yourself against the kids.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Although the old man Jakob Schubert came out with the bronze,

[00:05:08] [SPEAKER_09]: good job dude, point olds.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_09]: I think he's in his early 30s.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_09]: But that's old in that world.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Good job Jakob.

[00:05:16] [SPEAKER_09]: But the reason I'm bringing this up

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_09]: is because all the smart podcasts out there,

[00:05:20] [SPEAKER_09]: my friend Steven at the Nugget,

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_09]: my pal Ryan Devlin over at the Struggle,

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_09]: they're all capitalizing on Olympic fever right now.

[00:05:28] [SPEAKER_09]: It's marketing 101.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_09]: Synergy.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_09]: Cross branding.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Story, I don't know.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_09]: Storytelling is out of still a marketing buzzword.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_09]: Anyway, smart, smart, smart.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_09]: What is the role we're doing over here at the EnormaCast?

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Well, we're talking to Hayden Jamison

[00:05:45] [SPEAKER_09]: about alpine big wall climbing

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_09]: and a very, very harrowing accident that he had in Pakistan.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_09]: Smart marketing?

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_09]: No.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_09]: But a great story and a harrowing tale

[00:05:58] [SPEAKER_09]: and a very climbing podcast?

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Yes.

[00:06:01] [SPEAKER_09]: And I felt like it was time for the EnormaCast

[00:06:03] [SPEAKER_09]: to do a really climbing podcast

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_09]: because we've been mixing it up quite a bit lately.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_09]: So this story with Hayden is just straight

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_09]: climbing podcast thrills.

[00:06:13] [SPEAKER_09]: And as far as the Olympics goes,

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_09]: here's what I'm interested in.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_09]: It's what I call the post-post.

[00:06:18] [SPEAKER_09]: And I don't know if you've noticed that,

[00:06:20] [SPEAKER_09]: but that's what I really like to do over here

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_09]: at the EnormaCast

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_09]: is talk to you after the fact.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, there's post.

[00:06:26] [SPEAKER_09]: You just won.

[00:06:27] [SPEAKER_09]: You feel great.

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_09]: It's amazing.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Post-post is what happens later on.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Are you going again?

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Is Olympics 2028 out of the cards for you?

[00:06:38] [SPEAKER_09]: What does your life look like now?

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Do you still have the elation?

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Is there a hole that now needs to be filled?

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_09]: What are those conversations?

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I like those conversations.

[00:06:48] [SPEAKER_09]: Let's go deep.

[00:06:49] [SPEAKER_09]: Let's hit some emotions.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_09]: And elation and triumph is

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_09]: an exciting and interesting emotion.

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_09]: But don't we really get the goods on the dark side?

[00:06:59] [SPEAKER_09]: So we'll see if I can get some of that going

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_09]: in the next few months.

[00:07:02] [SPEAKER_09]: It's almost mean and predatory, isn't it?

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh man.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_09]: You know it's true though.

[00:07:08] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, another piece of business-type news

[00:07:11] [SPEAKER_09]: is that I am going to

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_09]: the Arcterics Academy

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_09]: in two weeks or three weeks.

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_09]: Two weeks?

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_09]: It's coming up in a minute.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it's like August 22nd to the 25th.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Arcterics has invited me.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_09]: I've been friends with Justin Sweeney over there.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_09]: The, um, I don't know what his actual title is,

[00:07:28] [SPEAKER_09]: but he has invited me to this thing before

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_09]: just to kind of make the scene,

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_09]: talk to his athletes

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_09]: of whom I am mostly good friends with

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_09]: and just see what's going on at this academy

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_09]: that they're so proud of.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Plus I get to go to Squamish, so why the heck not?

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Anyhow, that's a shout out

[00:07:46] [SPEAKER_09]: to my Canadian listeners that might be there

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_09]: and my non-phelonious

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_09]: American listeners that can cross the border.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_09]: Wait, does that mean that the former guy

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_09]: can't cross the border?

[00:07:57] [SPEAKER_09]: Maybe it depends on what kind of felony you have.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't think he'll be there one way or the other.

[00:08:02] [SPEAKER_09]: But I will.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_09]: So if you're going to be up there, hit me up.

[00:08:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Hopefully I'll have some free time just to chill

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_09]: and get some climbing done.

[00:08:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay, let's get to Hayden's story.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_09]: He showed up in my hotel room in Lander,

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_09]: the Lander climbing festival this summer.

[00:08:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Sat down and I said,

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_09]: hey man, what do you want to talk about?

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_09]: And he said, I don't know.

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_09]: And I said, how about that thing you presented on

[00:08:26] [SPEAKER_09]: that happened to you in Pakistan?

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_09]: And he said, okay.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_09]: And then I just sat back and listened,

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_09]: almost not opening my mouth.

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_09]: I know that's hard to believe.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Relatively speaking, I opened my mouth.

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_09]: But anyway, I just sat back, listened,

[00:08:42] [SPEAKER_09]: cringed, shuttered,

[00:08:43] [SPEAKER_09]: got a little tearful.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_09]: It's all in here.

[00:08:47] [SPEAKER_09]: And the cool thing is that underneath this story

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_09]: are questions,

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_09]: questions about why we climb,

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_09]: about why we continue to do things

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_09]: that cause us so much pain.

[00:08:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Not just physical pain, mental pain.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_09]: And yet we go back so many times.

[00:09:02] [SPEAKER_09]: So many of us go back again and again.

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Is it healthy?

[00:09:06] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_09]: Keep thinking about that during this interview.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_09]: It's all there underneath

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_09]: bubbling around.

[00:09:14] [SPEAKER_09]: So enjoy the conversation

[00:09:16] [SPEAKER_09]: with Hayden Jameson.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_06]: In the south of France,

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_06]: there is legendary Green Pond.

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_06]: Le Verdant, Le Calanque,

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_06]: Seuss.

[00:09:33] [SPEAKER_06]: But there is also the legendary wind,

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_06]: Le Mestre.

[00:09:38] [SPEAKER_06]: A strong, cold, nearly zealous winds

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_06]: that can drive the people mad.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_06]: But create conditions parfait pour escalade.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_06]: One moment, let me put down my baguette

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_06]: and my cigarette.

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_06]: Ah, oui.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_09]: Now, La Sportiva has captured

[00:10:00] [SPEAKER_09]: the masterly wind in a new shoe,

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_09]: the Mistral.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Slightly downturn for precision

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_09]: but also designed for performance and comfort.

[00:10:07] [SPEAKER_09]: A sticky toe patch makes the Mistral

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_09]: an all-arounder for hooking and jamming alike.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_09]: And let me tell you something,

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I have never slipped my feet into a more comfortable climate shoe.

[00:10:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Even performance snug,

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_09]: these things feel like stuffing your feet

[00:10:21] [SPEAKER_09]: into a buttery croissant.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_09]: So if you're looking for a light, comfortable all-arounder,

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_09]: ride like the wind at sportiva.com

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_09]: or your local shop and try on a Mistral

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_09]: and see if you ever want to take it off.

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_09]: Butter optional.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I was not ready for that

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_05]: and was so anxious leading up to the presentation

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_05]: and then watched all of you guys give the presentations

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_05]: and Britney's was like brilliant, I thought.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_05]: And yours was like super touching

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_05]: and the last time I saw Hayden Kennedy

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_05]: was here at the Climbers Festival

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_05]: so it's something that I always think about when I'm here.

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_09]: Practically me too. I saw him one more time.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I actually saw him like on...

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_05]: I have this crazy vision of him

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_05]: on 3rd Street that I was driving

[00:11:04] [SPEAKER_05]: out of town to Wild Iris for a clinic or something

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_05]: and I think he was injured.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_05]: He had like his shoulder

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_05]: or his arm in a sling or something.

[00:11:13] [SPEAKER_05]: That's right.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_05]: And he was...

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I have this like super vivid picture of him

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_05]: sitting on the porch of some house

[00:11:18] [SPEAKER_05]: that he was staying at reading a book with his arm in a sling

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was like, man, that sucks.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, it was at Kyle's house.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Oh, okay.

[00:11:23] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, Kyle of Acelopolis house

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_09]: on the way out to the park there.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's just something that I always think about

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_05]: and then your presentation made me cry

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_05]: and then I went into my presentation

[00:11:33] [SPEAKER_05]: being all nervous already

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_05]: and then started talking about this

[00:11:36] [SPEAKER_05]: already pretty sensitive subject to me

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_05]: and was like kind of broke down a little bit.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Like didn't really expect it.

[00:11:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, totally.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I remember that now.

[00:11:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and I felt kind of bad

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_09]: because I'd like...

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_09]: I didn't mean to do what I did.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Me as well.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_09]: I sat in...

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_09]: So the part of the story of that

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_09]: is that I had this presentation.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_09]: So we're in Lander right now

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_09]: so we were recounting this from two years ago

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_09]: but I had this presentation that I showed up with

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_09]: and they had that 15-minute burn mark

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_09]: like you get off the stage 15 minutes.

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and I was so stressed by that

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_05]: because initially I had a way longer presentation

[00:12:14] [SPEAKER_05]: and then was like, oh shit,

[00:12:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I have to like cut this down to almost nothing.

[00:12:18] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, and that's what I did

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_09]: and I tried and I had this thing

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_09]: and then the morning of

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_09]: I was like, I can't do it.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_09]: It's worthless without the extras.

[00:12:28] [SPEAKER_09]: So actually that day I sat

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_09]: in mostly sat in my hotel room

[00:12:33] [SPEAKER_09]: because I always get a hotel room at this thing.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm glad I did because I usually need a space

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_09]: to do this kind of thing but...

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_09]: And I made it, I made that new one

[00:12:41] [SPEAKER_09]: which is basically like my top 10

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Norma Cast for the reasons that I find.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_09]: And I just like picking some with people

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_09]: that were from here or like some obscure ones.

[00:12:53] [SPEAKER_09]: I think that didn't get noticed

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_09]: but in a way I devised that

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_09]: because I was like, well it doesn't matter where I get to.

[00:13:00] [SPEAKER_09]: If I only get to five then that's my presentation.

[00:13:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah, totally.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_09]: And I can just keep going until the bell rings

[00:13:04] [SPEAKER_09]: and be like, I'm done.

[00:13:06] [SPEAKER_09]: And they just pull you off the stage.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_09]: But of course I wanted to talk about Hayden

[00:13:09] [SPEAKER_09]: because he figured so heavily in this thing

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_09]: especially that serratory one was like kind of the launch.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean that was the first one I listened to.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_09]: And I was like in the hotel room

[00:13:18] [SPEAKER_09]: and I'm like, well I think I can do this.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_09]: I think I can.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm like kind of testing my emotions around it

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_09]: and then yeah, I mean the room full of people

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_09]: is a charged situation and I just started falling.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, totally.

[00:13:32] [SPEAKER_05]: It's crazy.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like a little bit out of your control, huh?

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, because I remember I looked back

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_09]: because it was on the screen.

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_09]: That was actually the mistake I made

[00:13:39] [SPEAKER_09]: but I think I probably would have anyway

[00:13:41] [SPEAKER_09]: but that was the floodgate.

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_09]: But then Tommy called and we cried

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_09]: so I got it.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_09]: So did a lot of people.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_09]: And then like you said you had to follow...

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_09]: Sorry.

[00:13:51] [SPEAKER_09]: And I had to follow Brittany's

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_05]: which hers was like so good.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_05]: I thought hers was like the super well put together

[00:13:57] [SPEAKER_05]: and the story was amazing.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_05]: Paul Piana being there

[00:14:00] [SPEAKER_05]: and Todd Skinner obviously his legacy

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was just like, oh shit,

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I have to follow this amazing presentation

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_05]: and I'm so gripped right now.

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_05]: So that's just how it goes.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Let's start with that story then.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_09]: Mm-hmm.

[00:14:12] [SPEAKER_09]: You want to do that?

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, yeah, totally.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Let's try not to cry.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_09]: No we won't.

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_09]: You never know.

[00:14:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Actually I spent the morning crying

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_09]: with this last one actually.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, well...

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_09]: I just did.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_09]: Then maybe you're all charged up.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm primed, I'm primed.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_09]: Died right over here.

[00:14:27] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I guess that story starts with

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_05]: my friend Shingo Okawa

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_05]: who you probably know, right?

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I just saw him this morning.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I like graduated college

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_05]: in Salt Lake City in 2015

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_05]: and right before I had graduated college

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_05]: I was hanging out with Shingo a little bit

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_05]: just through the climbing shop that he owns, IME.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_05]: And he asked me if I wanted to come

[00:14:53] [SPEAKER_05]: and help him on this new route

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_05]: that he had been working on in the Wasatch.

[00:14:56] [SPEAKER_05]: And he was like,

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_05]: ah you're young and you're super tall

[00:14:59] [SPEAKER_05]: and these runouts are really far

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_05]: so they'll look less far for you.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_05]: And I was like, sure, sounds good man.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Wait, wait.

[00:15:05] [SPEAKER_05]: Which is the first time I'd ever heard that.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I was like, no way.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_05]: Like, he's like,

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_05]: they look so much chillier when you're on them

[00:15:11] [SPEAKER_05]: because you're so tall.

[00:15:12] [SPEAKER_05]: And I was like, alright man,

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess so.

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm also just like 22 probably.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Right.

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_05]: So you just need somebody like young and spry

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_05]: to come help you out.

[00:15:20] [SPEAKER_08]: That makes total sense.

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_08]: Yeah, total sense.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_08]: You're taller than no one else.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean when you see a little kid

[00:15:25] [SPEAKER_05]: like four feet above a bolt

[00:15:26] [SPEAKER_05]: you're like, oh man, they're so far out there.

[00:15:28] [SPEAKER_05]: But really they're just right there.

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_09]: New bitch for short people now.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_09]: Can't reach the holds in the runouts or long.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_05]: Anyways, I remember Shingo approaching me

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_05]: or I was just in the shop or something

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_05]: and he's like, you should come up here

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_05]: and try this thing with me

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_05]: and we went and did some new route together

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was not of any note really

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_05]: but I think we worked really well as a team

[00:15:49] [SPEAKER_05]: and I really looked up to him.

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_05]: He gave me like a lot of mentorship

[00:15:52] [SPEAKER_05]: and he had been on like an expedition to Pakistan.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_05]: He had been to Patagonia a bunch of times.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_05]: He had been kind of climbing all over the world

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_05]: for the last like 25 years or something

[00:16:03] [SPEAKER_05]: so he was somebody who I looked up to a lot.

[00:16:06] [SPEAKER_05]: And when he asked me to come climbing with him

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I was super excited.

[00:16:10] [SPEAKER_05]: So we did this new route together

[00:16:11] [SPEAKER_05]: and then pretty shortly thereafter that

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_05]: he asked me if I had any plans after I'd graduated from college

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was like, no,

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm thinking about going to Europe with my girlfriend.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I really want to go sport climbing there.

[00:16:22] [SPEAKER_05]: That seems like a lot of fun

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_05]: and he's like, well,

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_05]: have you ever thought about going to Pakistan?

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I was like, honestly, no.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_05]: And he started telling me all of these stories

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_05]: about his last trip there

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_05]: and it honestly sounded pretty awful.

[00:16:34] [SPEAKER_05]: He like ended up with a super, super bad stomach illness

[00:16:37] [SPEAKER_05]: and spent most of the time on the toilet

[00:16:39] [SPEAKER_05]: and base camp and they did some new routes

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_05]: but it sounded like a pretty bleak time.

[00:16:45] [SPEAKER_05]: And he kind of just slowly somehow got me excited

[00:16:49] [SPEAKER_05]: about going on this trip

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_05]: even after telling me about all these horrible times

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_05]: he had had out there

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_05]: having super bad altitude sickness

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_05]: and being caught in storms and all that stuff.

[00:16:59] [SPEAKER_09]: I think it's an essential characteristic of an alpinist.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_09]: Exactly.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_09]: Just to find those things somehow endearing.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, totally.

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I ended up on a long road trip that summer

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_05]: as kind of like a graduation present to myself

[00:17:14] [SPEAKER_05]: and toured all over, I guess, all over the US

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_05]: for like three months, I think.

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_05]: And when I finished that trip

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I came back to Salt Lake City

[00:17:22] [SPEAKER_05]: had no idea what I was going to do for work

[00:17:24] [SPEAKER_05]: but at that point I had kind of agreed

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_05]: to go to Pakistan with Shingo

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_05]: and he hooked me up with his friend Jesse Meese

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_05]: who he had been there with previously

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_05]: who worked at the Warranty Department in BD

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_05]: and he was like, there's this opening at BD Warranty

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_05]: you have to take it.

[00:17:43] [SPEAKER_05]: It's like the dirtbag's ultimate dream job

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_05]: you get as much free stuff as you want

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_05]: and you can work there for a year

[00:17:50] [SPEAKER_05]: and then leave at the end of the year

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_05]: come to Pakistan in summer and you'll be psyched.

[00:17:54] [SPEAKER_05]: So I took the job.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_05]: It was actually awesome.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_05]: It was like really, really cool.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I worked a few days a week in the office

[00:17:59] [SPEAKER_05]: and just fixed CAMs and whatever,

[00:18:02] [SPEAKER_05]: re-slung CAMs and typed away on the computer

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_05]: for many hours a day

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_05]: and then at the end of the whole thing

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_05]: I had this like endless arsenal

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_05]: of new BD kit which was really sweet

[00:18:14] [SPEAKER_05]: as somebody who was like literally flat broke

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_05]: like completely flat broke

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_05]: and had managed to save enough money

[00:18:20] [SPEAKER_05]: to go on this trip with Shingo

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_05]: and our friend Ollie as well.

[00:18:23] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and so we went to the Cherakusa Valley

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_05]: which is a little bit less visited

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_05]: but people have been going there recently

[00:18:31] [SPEAKER_05]: it seems like because the rock climbing there

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_05]: is super, super good.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean the valley is full of these like

[00:18:37] [SPEAKER_05]: 500 to 3000 meter walls

[00:18:40] [SPEAKER_05]: and they're all below like the big snowy peaks around them.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah, I mean it's like a...

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_09]: You can go on like a rock climbing trip there.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_05]: A full rock climbing trip.

[00:18:48] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean you have to like cross a glacier

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_05]: to get to the rock routes

[00:18:51] [SPEAKER_05]: but it's kind of insane.

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean there's like thousands of L-caps of granite there.

[00:18:56] [SPEAKER_05]: It's completely overwhelming

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_05]: and they're all below these big like 6

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_05]: and 7000 meter peaks are just beautiful.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah, we went on this trip there

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_05]: I kind of trained the whole year for it

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_05]: was super excited, super super motivated

[00:19:09] [SPEAKER_05]: and we had a pretty classic expedition experience.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I got super sick on the way in

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_05]: sort of thought I was going to die

[00:19:17] [SPEAKER_05]: was just like have this memory of sitting outside

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_05]: of our little room that we were staying in

[00:19:22] [SPEAKER_05]: there was an awning and it was raining outside

[00:19:24] [SPEAKER_05]: and I had just like thrown up

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_05]: and was just like completely toasted

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_05]: had been out there for hours laying on the ground

[00:19:32] [SPEAKER_05]: just like throwing up into the dirt

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was raining and the rain...

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_05]: There was no gutter

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_05]: and so the rain was just like pouring off

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_05]: of the roof of this house onto me

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_05]: as I was like sprawled out in a pile of vomit

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_05]: and I had like shit myself

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_05]: and I have this memory of Shingo

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_05]: coming out and just running his fingers through my hair

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_05]: and just being like it's gonna be okay man

[00:19:54] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was just like man

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_05]: it doesn't get worse than this

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_05]: and yeah that was kind of a foreboding moment

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_05]: because it got a lot worse than that

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and he whispered you are warned

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_05]: and that was only on the way in

[00:20:10] [SPEAKER_05]: that was like before we had even gotten to base camp

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_05]: so I was just like thrashed for the first half of the trip

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_05]: and I don't really have anything to compare it to

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_05]: so I don't know what the weather is like

[00:20:18] [SPEAKER_05]: you know in other seasons

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I've heard it's been worse

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I've heard it's been better

[00:20:23] [SPEAKER_05]: but we were there for about a month

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_05]: and it rained

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I think about every other day the whole month

[00:20:30] [SPEAKER_05]: so for rock climbing on big routes

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_05]: it's like not that ideal

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_05]: so we ended up spending a bunch of time in our tents

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_05]: and lots of time with our cooks

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_05]: and guide their super super cool guys

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_05]: and that cultural experience was like insane to me

[00:20:44] [SPEAKER_05]: because previous to that

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I had been out of the country

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_05]: but it's not ever to a place like that

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I had been to Peru once when I was like a teenager

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_05]: but going to Pakistan is just like a huge cultural shock

[00:20:56] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean the religion and the poverty that you see there

[00:21:00] [SPEAKER_05]: and the people are super generous and kind

[00:21:02] [SPEAKER_05]: like that was our experience

[00:21:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and it's really really cool to see that

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_05]: and I think it changed my perspective on the world

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_05]: quite a lot to be around that

[00:21:10] [SPEAKER_05]: so anyways I got

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_08]: Well wait let me ask you a question

[00:21:13] [SPEAKER_08]: did you grow up in Salt Lake City?

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_05]: No no so I grew up in Bishop California

[00:21:17] [SPEAKER_05]: Oh you did?

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_05]: Well Bishop Mammoth

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_05]: that area I was born in Bishop

[00:21:22] [SPEAKER_05]: mostly grew up in Mammoth

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_05]: a little bit up in Bend with my mom

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_05]: and then finished high school in Mammoth

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_05]: and then my folks live down in Bishop now

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_09]: What kind of upbringing?

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_09]: Comfy, pretty normal

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_09]: Pretty normal?

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah like working class parents

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_05]: and they you know

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I was super fortunate to grow up in that place

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_05]: but it's the kind of town like Mammoth

[00:21:46] [SPEAKER_05]: especially is a super resort town

[00:21:48] [SPEAKER_05]: but my dad and stepmom have been there

[00:21:50] [SPEAKER_05]: for like almost 60 years

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_05]: so they bought a house like way back when

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_05]: it was super cheap

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_05]: and my dad like built chair lifts

[00:21:57] [SPEAKER_05]: and was a ski patrol and all that kind of thing

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_05]: So yeah pretty like blue collar

[00:22:01] [SPEAKER_05]: and class family

[00:22:02] [SPEAKER_09]: So like kind of skiing

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_09]: snowboarding outdoor stuff in your veins

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_09]: a little bit?

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah totally I mean my dad's been a skier

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_09]: since he was a teenager

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_05]: and he's like in his late 60s now

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_05]: and yeah I didn't actually get to climb

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_05]: until I was like 16

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_05]: which kind of sucked

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_05]: in hindsight I mean I did a little bit here and there

[00:22:18] [SPEAKER_05]: birthday party type things

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_05]: and you know I did a summer camp

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_05]: when I was like 12 probably

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_05]: but I actually didn't really know

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_05]: that the buttermilks existed until I was 16

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_05]: and I bought a crash pad from

[00:22:30] [SPEAKER_05]: an old high school professor of mine

[00:22:33] [SPEAKER_05]: and he was like you should go through

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_05]: the buttermilks and check out this thing

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_05]: the Iron Mantraverse it's supposed to be super classic

[00:22:39] [SPEAKER_05]: and we drove down there with me and my friend

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_05]: and there was like three feet of snow

[00:22:43] [SPEAKER_05]: in the main area of the buttermilks

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_05]: and I remember there was this

[00:22:47] [SPEAKER_05]: team of French people trying this super hard

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_05]: boulder and being this kid from

[00:22:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Bishop I was just like what the fuck

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_05]: are you guys doing here?

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_05]: You came all the way from France to Bishop

[00:22:57] [SPEAKER_05]: I had like no perspective

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_05]: that somebody would travel

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_05]: to come to Bishop I just knew that there were mountains

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_05]: there and the skiing was really good

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_05]: but I actually had no

[00:23:06] [SPEAKER_05]: way of comprehending that the climbing was

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_05]: as world famous as it is

[00:23:10] [SPEAKER_09]: Right, but it set you off and running then

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah totally and I had this

[00:23:14] [SPEAKER_05]: high school teacher who mentored me

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_05]: and like took me up a bunch of kind of

[00:23:18] [SPEAKER_05]: mildly technical

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_05]: high Sierra Peaks and that

[00:23:22] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of had its natural progression

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_05]: from like scrambling to easy rock climbing

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_05]: to yeah then like big

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of alpine easy rock climbing

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_05]: and that led to sport climbing

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_05]: and bouldering and all of that stuff

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_05]: and then I came to college in Salt Lake City in 2015

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_05]: and that was where I like really really started going

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_05]: with the climbing more than

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_05]: more than anything else.

[00:23:41] [SPEAKER_09]: Okay back to your story.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_09]: I wanted to frame the perspective of being in this place

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah totally, I mean yeah

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_05]: from a town similar to Lander

[00:23:49] [SPEAKER_05]: so it's like not the most

[00:23:51] [SPEAKER_05]: culturally diverse place

[00:23:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean for sure like Native American tribes

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_05]: and that kind of thing but

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_05]: it's different than going to a country

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_05]: where you can't read any labels in the grocery store

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_05]: you know? Yeah so I guess

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_05]: with Pakistan I got super sick

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_05]: we made it up into base camp

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_05]: the weather was okay but not

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_05]: super good. We had some like

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_05]: debacle with our satellite phone that

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_05]: stopped working and so we had this like

[00:24:17] [SPEAKER_05]: whole breakdown in camp where we were like

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of arguing as to whether or not

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_05]: we should go rock climbing which in hindsight

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_05]: is kind of a silly sounding

[00:24:25] [SPEAKER_05]: thing but I think

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I was quite intimidated to be there

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_05]: you know I had done a load of multi-pitch climbing before that

[00:24:32] [SPEAKER_05]: but being in a place that big

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_05]: and powerful is pretty

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_05]: overwhelming for somebody who hasn't seen it before

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:24:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I was convinced that if

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_05]: something bad were to happen

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_05]: that we would just not make it out

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_05]: which honestly probably was the case

[00:24:48] [SPEAKER_05]: you know you're pretty far back there

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_05]: it's not insanely far but it's two days

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_05]: walking from the nearest town and then like

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_05]: a full day of driving on a rough

[00:24:55] [SPEAKER_05]: four by four road so

[00:24:57] [SPEAKER_05]: you know eventually we got our satellite phones

[00:24:59] [SPEAKER_05]: working and we did a handful of

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_05]: routes. We did a new route that was pretty cool

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_05]: like 2,500 foot

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_05]: like ridge line that anywhere

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_05]: in the US it would be like an all-time classic

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_05]: like eggs and ridge style thing but this

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_05]: was just like a ridge that ended

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_05]: at a flat spot

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_05]: at the base of like a 7,000 meter

[00:25:17] [SPEAKER_05]: peak. It was on the base of

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_05]: K7 West I think

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_05]: so you're just like wow that

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_05]: feels incredibly insignificant

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_05]: we just spent two days climbing this like

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_05]: almost 1,000 meter ridge and we're just

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_05]: like on a grassy knoll

[00:25:31] [SPEAKER_05]: beneath this like massive glaciated peak

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_05]: it was pretty

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_05]: funny but that those experiences

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_05]: to me were really really important

[00:25:39] [SPEAKER_05]: and cool to be able to like

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_05]: go new routing in this really serious place

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_05]: surrounded by these big mountains and

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_05]: you know had this kind of influence

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_05]: from Kyle Dempster and Scott Adamson

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_05]: about climbing there and it was

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_05]: really cool to actually see it with my own eyes

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_05]: because I leading up

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_05]: to that trip had become pretty good friends

[00:25:58] [SPEAKER_05]: with Kyle and you know at the time

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_05]: I was 23

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_05]: or 24 and he was 34 so he

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_05]: was over 10 years older than me

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_05]: and he was totally willing to like

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_05]: share everything that he had learned

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_05]: from climbing in Pakistan and all around

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_05]: the world with me which was super

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_05]: super important to me. Yeah I guess we got

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_05]: to do a fair bit of climbing we added a new route

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_05]: to the valley it wasn't anything significant but it was

[00:26:19] [SPEAKER_05]: pretty cool to me and

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I think in

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_05]: not knowing what

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_05]: to expect with an expedition

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_05]: we ended up spending

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_05]: a ton of time in our tents which I know

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_05]: you know a lot about and

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_05]: the first really big

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_05]: prolonged storm that we had was

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_05]: maybe five or six days long

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_05]: and we were just hanging out in our mess tent

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:26:42] [SPEAKER_05]: maybe 24 I was just like

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_05]: completely crazy I was like

[00:26:47] [SPEAKER_05]: really really not excited about hanging out

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_05]: in the tent for almost

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_05]: a week and

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_05]: a lot of these days that we had were kind of almost

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_05]: climbable but not good enough

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_05]: that you would want to go out for a whole day

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_05]: and so eventually

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_05]: we had done a bunch of scouting

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_05]: around base camp had this idea of a new route

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_05]: that we wanted to do and we

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_05]: decided to hike up

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_05]: and go check out the base

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_05]: of the route stash our rack and ropes

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_05]: and stuff and then come back with a weather window

[00:27:15] [SPEAKER_05]: and try and do the thing

[00:27:17] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_05]: in this kind of bad weather window

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess there the middle of the

[00:27:22] [SPEAKER_05]: summer it's often rainy

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_05]: a little bit lower but up higher it's

[00:27:26] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of more alpine feeling like a little bit

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_05]: snowy and yeah just

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_05]: colder cold enough to be snowing at least

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_05]: and we

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_05]: went up this big

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_05]: snow gully

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_05]: like a thousand meters or so and traversed

[00:27:40] [SPEAKER_05]: out onto the base of this rock pillar

[00:27:42] [SPEAKER_05]: that was

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_05]: actually don't really remember how big it was

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_05]: but maybe 600 meters something like that

[00:27:47] [SPEAKER_05]: everything is kind of like

[00:27:49] [SPEAKER_05]: blown out of proportion there you really have no idea

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_05]: what's what because you see a thousand meter

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_05]: wall at the base of a 4,000 meter

[00:27:55] [SPEAKER_05]: snowy wall and you're like

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_05]: that looks like a freaking

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_05]: it's like sickle ledge you know it's like so

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_05]: low to the ground it's crazy

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_05]: so maybe this 600 meter

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_05]: granite spire super pretty

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_05]: and we got up to

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_05]: the base of the wall we had traversed

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_05]: out from the top of this snow gully we had gone up

[00:28:16] [SPEAKER_05]: a team of

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_05]: me and shingo and ollie so it was three of us

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_05]: we were at the base of the roof

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of checking out where it might go it wasn't super obvious

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_05]: where it was going to start but we kind of decided

[00:28:27] [SPEAKER_05]: on a start it seemed like there was this crack

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_05]: through a roof that we were going to try and climb

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_05]: and the weather was just good enough

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_05]: that I was like I think I really

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_05]: just want to climb the first pitch like we

[00:28:37] [SPEAKER_05]: haven't climbed it almost a week I feel like

[00:28:40] [SPEAKER_05]: shit you know like this

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_05]: is not that cool so

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_05]: racked up started climbing this pitch which

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_05]: in hindsight maybe was a little bit harder than

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I gave it credit for is just kind of steep

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_05]: kitty littery granite like I'm sure probably

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_05]: similar to something you'd find in the black

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_05]: or something like that and

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_05]: went out this roof that led into a super nice

[00:29:00] [SPEAKER_05]: hand crack and the roof maybe was only

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_05]: like five or six meters off the ground

[00:29:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and got into this hand crack

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_05]: and I

[00:29:07] [SPEAKER_05]: think that we only had like a single set

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_05]: of cams with us

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I could be wrong on that maybe we can fact check

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_05]: it was shingo but not

[00:29:15] [SPEAKER_05]: that his memories any better but

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_05]: anyways for some

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_05]: for some reason and I actually

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_05]: don't remember why which is kind

[00:29:23] [SPEAKER_05]: of annoying in hindsight I

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_05]: decided to bump this cam with me for a while

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was in a totally chill

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_05]: hand crack like feeling super confident

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_05]: and fine but it was cold

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_05]: and snowy and

[00:29:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I was

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_05]: in a hand jam fully brick numbed

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_05]: hands and

[00:29:39] [SPEAKER_05]: bumped this number one cam with me

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_05]: and like right as I bumped it

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_05]: my hand slipped and I fell

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_05]: and it's kind of

[00:29:48] [SPEAKER_05]: unclear if I like had the cam

[00:29:50] [SPEAKER_05]: in my hand or if it ripped because the rock

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_05]: was pretty bad it was like that super

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_05]: large grain kitty littery stuff

[00:29:56] [SPEAKER_05]: either way I fell

[00:29:58] [SPEAKER_05]: like seven meters

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_05]: maybe and landed

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_05]: on this ledge super hard right next to shingo

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of was sort of

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_05]: okay for a moment sitting

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_05]: on my on my butt on this like sloping

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_05]: slab of rock

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_05]: and knew that

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_05]: my foot was hurt had this

[00:30:16] [SPEAKER_05]: super brief moment that I was afraid to look at

[00:30:18] [SPEAKER_05]: my foot look down

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_05]: my foot was like fully 90 degrees to the end of my leg

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_05]: really gross I know

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_05]: had this brief moment of panic it didn't

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_05]: really hurt yet and

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_05]: ripped my shoe off

[00:30:32] [SPEAKER_05]: and then I hooked it off this ledge

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_05]: you know like a thousand meters back down to the glacier

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_05]: we had just come up this like huge snow

[00:30:38] [SPEAKER_05]: ramp and

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_05]: what out of rage?

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_05]: just out of like panic you know just not

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_05]: knowing what to think seeing my foot at this

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_05]: awkward angle and it kind of was

[00:30:47] [SPEAKER_05]: starting to hurt but you know all of this

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_05]: happened over the course of

[00:30:51] [SPEAKER_05]: 10 seconds I don't know

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_05]: one of those things where it feels quite a bit slower

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was wearing socks because

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_05]: it was pretty cold and

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_05]: just like

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_05]: had this

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_05]: heinous protruding stump of bone

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_05]: sticking through my stock

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_05]: my sock

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah it was pretty gnarly and I

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_05]: freaked out like was super, super scared

[00:31:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I think more scared than in pain

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_05]: but definitely a little bit of pain

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_05]: beyond that things kind of moved pretty quickly

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_05]: but

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_05]: in my memory at least but we

[00:31:25] [SPEAKER_05]: you know had traversed this long

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_05]: probably low fifth class ramp that we

[00:31:29] [SPEAKER_05]: soloed out it was super mellow but

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_05]: we had to then get me back across

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_05]: this ramp for

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_05]: a couple hundred feet something like that

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_05]: then start making our way down this thousand

[00:31:41] [SPEAKER_05]: meter snow gully which

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_05]: was pretty gnarly it turned out

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_05]: we did a little bit of

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_05]: pretty improvised first aid we had

[00:31:49] [SPEAKER_05]: like a foam support

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_05]: in a backpack that we pulled out

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_05]: and like kind of splinted my leg

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_05]: and wrapped it in tape or whatever it was

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_05]: that we had but basically shingo and

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_05]: ollie because we had come up this

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_05]: snow gully we had ice or

[00:32:03] [SPEAKER_05]: PLAs with us or something and they

[00:32:05] [SPEAKER_05]: just made like snow anchors

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_05]: and lowered me down 70 meters

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_05]: at a time as I was just kind of sliding

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_05]: on my ass holding

[00:32:13] [SPEAKER_05]: my leg up we have these like insane

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_05]: pictures of me it was a shock level

[00:32:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean were you going into shock

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_05]: or were you I was

[00:32:21] [SPEAKER_05]: pretty with it the whole time

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I never lost consciousness

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_05]: or anything like that there wasn't

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_05]: a ton of blood

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_05]: because it was just this like jagged white bone

[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_05]: sticking out and we had wrapped it up

[00:32:33] [SPEAKER_05]: before it got the chance to like really bleed

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_05]: but it was clear that it was it was serious

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_05]: like really really serious

[00:32:39] [SPEAKER_09]: so let me ask you a timeline

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_09]: question had shingo

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_09]: had his repelling accident yet

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah this was post accident right

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_05]: so he

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_05]: just in terms of yeah yeah he went to

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_05]: back and now is actually a whole thing on our

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_05]: trip that he went to back stand the first time

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_05]: and then came home and I think

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_05]: pretty shortly after that had his repelling

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_05]: accident or he was just lowered off the end of a road

[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I lower off the I can remember exactly

[00:33:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and he like fractured his skull pretty badly

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_05]: and did some other damage but

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_05]: it was I remember is four years

[00:33:09] [SPEAKER_05]: after that accident that he came back

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_05]: on this trip and

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_05]: that was a whole thing as well

[00:33:15] [SPEAKER_05]: because like because he had had such a severe

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_05]: brain injury it had

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of messed with his ability to deal

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_05]: with altitude so he had like

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_05]: migraine the whole trip

[00:33:25] [SPEAKER_05]: like a month of migraine it was crazy

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_05]: he said it felt like somebody was just like

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_05]: putting a knife into his eyeball for the whole

[00:33:31] [SPEAKER_05]: trip and it would get worse

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_05]: the higher we got so yeah that was

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_05]: that was a whole other thing that was like pretty hard

[00:33:37] [SPEAKER_05]: to deal with you know for him it's like hard

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_05]: to be supportive

[00:33:41] [SPEAKER_05]: as a partner when you're like dude I know

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_05]: you're hurting really badly right now

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_09]: there's people listening to this

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_09]: cancelling their Pakistan plans right now

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah seriously I hope so man

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_05]: hopefully it can be a cautionary

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_05]: tale you know

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah so I just got lowered

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_05]: a bunch of times down this snow golly

[00:34:01] [SPEAKER_05]: sort of just on my back sliding

[00:34:03] [SPEAKER_05]: down holding my leg up into the air

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I

[00:34:09] [SPEAKER_05]: eventually got to the base of the golly there's a little bit of grass

[00:34:11] [SPEAKER_05]: before you got back down onto the glacier

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_05]: and I remember having this feeling

[00:34:15] [SPEAKER_05]: of like sweet we made it

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_05]: the helicopter is going to come and get me

[00:34:19] [SPEAKER_05]: right here and

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_05]: then also

[00:34:23] [SPEAKER_05]: understanding like a couple

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_05]: moments later that that was not going to happen

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_05]: that we were like

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know between 5 and 6

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_05]: thousand meters and

[00:34:33] [SPEAKER_05]: there was no help coming like

[00:34:35] [SPEAKER_05]: in a storm it was a light storm you know

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_05]: nothing crazy but it was like lightly

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_05]: snowing all day super low visibility

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_05]: so that was not going to be a possibility

[00:34:46] [SPEAKER_05]: and so

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_05]: we

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_05]: as I remember it ollie

[00:34:51] [SPEAKER_05]: which is funny his name is ollie for Oliver

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_05]: but everybody in Pakistan

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_05]: because they love just like oh this little white guy

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_05]: with dreadlocks they call him ollie

[00:34:59] [SPEAKER_05]: he's so psyched

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_05]: he ran back to base camp

[00:35:03] [SPEAKER_05]: which was pretty far it was

[00:35:04] [SPEAKER_05]: at least an hour and a half

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_05]: or two hours back to base camp

[00:35:09] [SPEAKER_05]: got our camp cooks

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_05]: brought them back up

[00:35:12] [SPEAKER_05]: and in that time shingo and I had started

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_05]: to like move me back down

[00:35:16] [SPEAKER_05]: to the base camp

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_05]: but you had to cross an incredible amount of

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_05]: glacier to get there so it was no

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_05]: easy task and it's not

[00:35:24] [SPEAKER_05]: really something where you can just be like

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_05]: piggybacked on a person as they walk

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_05]: over this glacier because we're in like approach shoes

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_05]: and you know we're not like

[00:35:32] [SPEAKER_05]: super kitted out to be like traveling

[00:35:34] [SPEAKER_05]: on a glacier as you would you know

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_05]: in a place where their glacier is like super broken

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_05]: or something so it was pretty solid

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_05]: but uneven ground and so basically

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I was with my arm around

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_05]: shingo hopping on one foot

[00:35:47] [SPEAKER_05]: and then sometimes like butt

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_05]: scooting to get through the like steeper sections

[00:35:51] [SPEAKER_05]: of ice

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_05]: and eventually ollie and ollie

[00:35:55] [SPEAKER_05]: our base camp chef came back

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was ollie

[00:35:59] [SPEAKER_05]: ollie and fida ollie

[00:36:02] [SPEAKER_05]: they came

[00:36:03] [SPEAKER_05]: back and were able to

[00:36:05] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of help me out but it ended up

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_05]: being

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_05]: as I remember somewhere around 12

[00:36:11] [SPEAKER_05]: or 15 hours to get me from

[00:36:13] [SPEAKER_05]: the base of the route back to base camp

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was hilarious by the time we got back to base camp

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_05]: like the ass of my pants was

[00:36:19] [SPEAKER_05]: just shredded like through my underwear

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_05]: and everything because I had just been like

[00:36:23] [SPEAKER_05]: scooting on dirt for

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_09]: 12 hours. What was the pain

[00:36:27] [SPEAKER_09]: level like at this point?

[00:36:29] [SPEAKER_09]: You know it's kind of funny I don't

[00:36:31] [SPEAKER_05]: remember the pain being like super

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_05]: super intense until later on

[00:36:35] [SPEAKER_05]: but yeah we made it back to base camp

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was super psyched because we had a bunch of pain meds

[00:36:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I had had a knee surgery a few years

[00:36:41] [SPEAKER_05]: before and the doctor prescribed me

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_05]: like way too much pain medication

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_05]: and so I had not really taken

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_05]: any of it after my surgery and brought

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_05]: like 48 per cassette with me

[00:36:51] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was like sweet I've got enough drugs

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_05]: that I'm gonna be feeling fine

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:36:56] [SPEAKER_05]: those drugs had an expiration date

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_05]: on them and I thought it's like

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_05]: heroin basically right like that stuff doesn't

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_05]: expire probably and it actually

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_05]: does expire I was taking

[00:37:07] [SPEAKER_05]: like two 500 milligram

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_05]: pills of per cassette and it did

[00:37:11] [SPEAKER_05]: nothing like

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_05]: literally nothing and this was

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_05]: when it kind of started to get painful because I was like

[00:37:17] [SPEAKER_05]: in the mess tent

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_05]: on the phone on the satellite phone calling everybody

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_05]: that I knew with some medical background

[00:37:23] [SPEAKER_05]: like what should we do in this situation you know

[00:37:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I had some like kind of brief

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_05]: wilderness medicine training but

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_05]: nothing that really gets you ready to like

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_05]: treat your own exposed

[00:37:32] [SPEAKER_05]: bone in a place like that

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_05]: and so I remember calling my friend Gina

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_05]: who's a nurse and being like

[00:37:38] [SPEAKER_05]: Gina a bad thing happened

[00:37:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like here all this bone is

[00:37:43] [SPEAKER_05]: sticking out of my leg I don't really know what to do

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_05]: she's like well you need to stay calm

[00:37:46] [SPEAKER_05]: don't go into shock clean the bone really well

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_05]: wrap it up and call it good

[00:37:51] [SPEAKER_05]: and she works in like

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_05]: emergency medicine and

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_05]: so yeah we were

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_05]: in our mess tent with my leg propped up

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_05]: and shingo and ollie just like

[00:38:00] [SPEAKER_05]: swabbing my bones off

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_05]: with alcohol swabs

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_05]: and like doing everything that they could

[00:38:06] [SPEAKER_05]: to clean them and I was sitting there like

[00:38:08] [SPEAKER_05]: biting on a t-shirt like

[00:38:10] [SPEAKER_05]: full tears running down my face screaming

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_05]: like

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_05]: as bad as it gets I think

[00:38:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean I don't really know but

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_05]: it seems like it doesn't get much more painful

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_09]: somebody just drove off the road

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_09]: just saying this thing

[00:38:23] [SPEAKER_09]: yeah

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_05]: and they rewrapped it

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean good for those guys

[00:38:28] [SPEAKER_05]: it's crazy

[00:38:30] [SPEAKER_09]: that kind of injury

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_09]: and I've actually done first aid on

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_09]: you know open fracture before

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_09]: and in the moment

[00:38:39] [SPEAKER_09]: you know the moment emergency

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_09]: it was like not a problem

[00:38:42] [SPEAKER_09]: but this is later you know this is

[00:38:45] [SPEAKER_05]: more aware of like

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_05]: this is like 15 hours after fact

[00:38:49] [SPEAKER_09]: if you're not someone that does that shit

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_09]: like swabbing a bone

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_09]: sticking out of your friends foot is take some courage

[00:38:55] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I mean it was like my entire

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_05]: heel bone

[00:38:58] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was like broken into like 6 or 10

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_05]: pieces something like that it was like

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_05]: fully shattered so yeah I mean they did

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_05]: like incredible work like in hindsight

[00:39:07] [SPEAKER_05]: that is the reason that I still have my right leg

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_05]: right

[00:39:11] [SPEAKER_05]: which yeah that was actually pretty hard

[00:39:13] [SPEAKER_05]: I like and this was actually the moment

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_05]: that I teared up in my

[00:39:16] [SPEAKER_05]: presentation at ICF

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_05]: that I called my

[00:39:21] [SPEAKER_05]: my physician

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_05]: at home in mammoth I was on California insurance

[00:39:25] [SPEAKER_05]: at the time and

[00:39:26] [SPEAKER_05]: he was like yeah you know we can

[00:39:29] [SPEAKER_05]: get you this like

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_05]: across the world life flight it costs

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_05]: whatever it was some insane amount

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_05]: of money 500 grand or something

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was like well that's not really an option

[00:39:38] [SPEAKER_05]: and he was like well how much is your right

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_05]: leg worth to you because you might not come home

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_05]: with it and I was like

[00:39:44] [SPEAKER_05]: in that moment like it kind of dawned on me

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_05]: before that I was like okay my leg is broken

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_05]: actually thought it was my leg initially

[00:39:50] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know why

[00:39:53] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:39:55] [SPEAKER_05]: after that it was like

[00:39:56] [SPEAKER_05]: evident how how serious

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_05]: it was

[00:39:59] [SPEAKER_05]: so that was

[00:40:02] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of a wake up call and we had

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_05]: also been in touch with our fixer

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_05]: for the whole trip

[00:40:08] [SPEAKER_05]: told us that it was going to be impossible to land a helicopter

[00:40:10] [SPEAKER_05]: and base camp for the next week because

[00:40:12] [SPEAKER_05]: the weather forecast and you know it's the

[00:40:14] [SPEAKER_05]: Pakistani military that

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_05]: that does those rescue operations

[00:40:18] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah so our fixer

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_05]: sent up I think it was

[00:40:23] [SPEAKER_05]: eight high altitude porters

[00:40:24] [SPEAKER_05]: to come carry me out

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_05]: and so we had that

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_05]: night I think the accident happened in the morning

[00:40:30] [SPEAKER_05]: it was a whole day of shenanigans

[00:40:32] [SPEAKER_05]: got back late in the evening

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_05]: and then the next morning

[00:40:36] [SPEAKER_05]: all these porters showed up

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_05]: or at some point the next day they showed up

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_05]: and so we had a bunch of time to just kind of sit around

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_05]: you know I slept in my tent

[00:40:45] [SPEAKER_05]: and that was a super dark

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_05]: time just to sit there for like

[00:40:48] [SPEAKER_05]: however long it was 12 to

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_05]: 24 hours just being like well

[00:40:53] [SPEAKER_05]: this might be it for me

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_05]: like really had no idea

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_05]: like at all I was bleeding

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of a lot we were changing my bandages

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_05]: a bunch and it's one of those things

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_05]: there's just like no way to know

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_05]: in that situation you have so few

[00:41:07] [SPEAKER_05]: resources and you're so far away from home

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_05]: that it's hard to know what exactly is

[00:41:11] [SPEAKER_05]: going to happen

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_05]: but eventually these guys showed up

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_05]: they showed up with a stretcher

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I had it in my mind again that they were just going to

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_05]: like put me on the stretcher and carry me out

[00:41:21] [SPEAKER_05]: that was like sweet sounds good

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_05]: they loaded me

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_05]: onto the stretcher and you know

[00:41:26] [SPEAKER_05]: meanwhile we have like a six week base camp

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_05]: that's getting broken down all at the same time

[00:41:31] [SPEAKER_05]: so like all of our shit is just like

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_05]: spread across this meadow

[00:41:34] [SPEAKER_05]: and trying to like pack everything up so that

[00:41:36] [SPEAKER_05]: more porters can come help and carry this stuff

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_05]: out and

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_05]: the high altitude porters got me

[00:41:42] [SPEAKER_05]: onto this stretcher

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_05]: and I think it was six of them carrying

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_05]: me and it's a pretty rudimentary

[00:41:49] [SPEAKER_05]: stretcher like the kind of thing you would

[00:41:50] [SPEAKER_05]: expect to be in this like

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_05]: far out rural place in Pakistan

[00:41:54] [SPEAKER_05]: and they walked for about five

[00:41:56] [SPEAKER_05]: minutes and realized

[00:41:58] [SPEAKER_05]: that there's no possible way that they can

[00:42:00] [SPEAKER_05]: carry me on a stretcher over this glacier

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_05]: because it's just so undulating and

[00:42:04] [SPEAKER_05]: anybody who's walked on a glacier could imagine

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_05]: how awkward that would be and I'm kind of

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_05]: a big dude you know especially compared to

[00:42:10] [SPEAKER_05]: them like all these

[00:42:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Pakistani guys are like max 5

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_05]: 7 something like that and pretty skinny

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_05]: fit dudes so

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_05]: they instead took one of these

[00:42:20] [SPEAKER_05]: L shaped

[00:42:22] [SPEAKER_05]: backpack frames you've seen those probably

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:42:26] [SPEAKER_05]: padded it up with like a thermo rest

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_05]: and I just got strapped

[00:42:30] [SPEAKER_05]: to the backpack frame and they just carried

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_05]: me out piggyback style

[00:42:33] [SPEAKER_05]: for two days

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_05]: so they would just carry me

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_05]: one at a time for like

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know

[00:42:41] [SPEAKER_05]: a maximum of like three minutes

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_05]: and then sat me down

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_05]: switch to the next guy pick me up

[00:42:47] [SPEAKER_05]: carry me for two three minutes sit me down

[00:42:50] [SPEAKER_05]: switch the next guy

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_05]: and did that over and over and over

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_05]: and over and over and we walked

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_05]: they walked for

[00:42:59] [SPEAKER_05]: this timeline is kind of fuzzy for me

[00:43:01] [SPEAKER_05]: but it was probably between

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_05]: 30 and 40 hours

[00:43:04] [SPEAKER_05]: like nonstop through the night

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I remember at one point they stopped

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_05]: we all sat down it was right near

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_05]: the edge of the glacier at the base of it

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_05]: and they made some

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_05]: chai and that was like their only fuel

[00:43:16] [SPEAKER_05]: for the whole time

[00:43:18] [SPEAKER_05]: is totally crazy those guys

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_05]: who are like a completely

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_05]: different level of fitness and ability

[00:43:24] [SPEAKER_05]: that I actually can't comprehend because

[00:43:26] [SPEAKER_05]: even if I brought together my

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_05]: eight fittest professional

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_05]: climber friends like they would not be able

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_05]: to do that I think and the whole time

[00:43:34] [SPEAKER_05]: my leg was bleeding a lot

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_05]: you know there's like a trail of blood

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_05]: and we had to like sit there

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_05]: and have these conversations about if we wanted

[00:43:42] [SPEAKER_05]: to turn to get my leg if that was going

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_05]: to make a difference because it's hard to keep track

[00:43:46] [SPEAKER_05]: of how much blood I lost it been

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_05]: you know at this point it was like

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_05]: a day in base camp two days

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_05]: of hiking

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_05]: and then you know and then

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_05]: beyond so after two and a half

[00:43:58] [SPEAKER_05]: days it's like well you've been bleeding

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_05]: the whole time it never stopped

[00:44:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and like at what point is it

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_05]: the right thing to do to like

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_05]: tie off the limb and like salvage

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_05]: the person instead of the foot

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_05]: so

[00:44:13] [SPEAKER_05]: we did like a super

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_05]: light tourniquet which was horrifying

[00:44:16] [SPEAKER_05]: you know just with like

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_05]: a piece of

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_05]: rag or something I can't remember

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_05]: what it was and eventually those guys got me all

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_05]: the way out which was just like

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_05]: incredible but out to where

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_09]: like what do you arrive at I can't remember

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_05]: the last the last town but I mean

[00:44:32] [SPEAKER_05]: just a village with

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_05]: less than 20 huts in it right yeah

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_05]: yes and not out like hey we're at the hospital

[00:44:38] [SPEAKER_05]: no no no no so that's the end of the road

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I remember arriving there super early in the

[00:44:44] [SPEAKER_05]: morning like just as the sun had come up

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_05]: and they had a

[00:44:48] [SPEAKER_05]: Jeep waiting or a land cruiser

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_05]: whatever waiting for me there and

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_05]: from there it's like a full day drive

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_05]: back to escarge you which is kind of like

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_05]: the launching point for all these

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_05]: expeditions

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_05]: and yeah that

[00:45:02] [SPEAKER_05]: was actually kind of the worst part because I think

[00:45:04] [SPEAKER_05]: as we went down in elevation

[00:45:06] [SPEAKER_05]: my legs started to swell really badly

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was in a tourniquet and we actually had

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_05]: a really really hard time cutting the

[00:45:12] [SPEAKER_05]: tourniquet off so I was in

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_05]: the back of this Jeep with my foot in the

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_05]: air screaming

[00:45:17] [SPEAKER_05]: like again no pain

[00:45:20] [SPEAKER_05]: medication

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_05]: ibuprofen maybe but the perc said that I had was doing nothing for me

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_05]: shingou and ollie are like

[00:45:29] [SPEAKER_05]: trying to calm me down

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm freaking out because it feels like my leg is going to explode

[00:45:33] [SPEAKER_05]: and it's just like

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_05]: spurting blood like through the

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_05]: through the

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_05]: the splint that we had made for it

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_05]: and eventually we made it back

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_05]: to this hospital that is

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_05]: super super rudimentary we had

[00:45:46] [SPEAKER_05]: actually been planning on getting me

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_05]: to the military hospital I guess that's where people with

[00:45:52] [SPEAKER_05]: trauma injuries are typically treated

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_05]: but there is a city hospital

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_05]: where there is a group of orthopedic surgeons

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_05]: visiting from Lahore I think

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_05]: and it's like this group of

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Pakistani surgeons

[00:46:04] [SPEAKER_05]: who come to work on people who have

[00:46:07] [SPEAKER_05]: disabilities and so they

[00:46:09] [SPEAKER_05]: help people with club foot

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_05]: and cleft lip and things like that

[00:46:13] [SPEAKER_05]: and there is a line of people out the door

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_05]: waiting for these surgeries

[00:46:18] [SPEAKER_05]: and they pulled up to the front of the hospital

[00:46:21] [SPEAKER_05]: and pulled me out

[00:46:22] [SPEAKER_05]: put me on a stretcher and ran me into the

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_05]: OR which is like

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_05]: honestly this hotel room

[00:46:29] [SPEAKER_05]: was like more sanitary than that

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_05]: operating room

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_05]: and stabbed me in the arm with

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_05]: a big a big syringe

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_05]: and I fell asleep

[00:46:39] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was kind of it

[00:46:43] [SPEAKER_05]: it was kind of a it was a crazy moment

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I mean

[00:46:46] [SPEAKER_05]: the whole the whole thing

[00:46:48] [SPEAKER_05]: like I woke up a few hours later

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_05]: and my foot was like

[00:46:52] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of okay

[00:46:54] [SPEAKER_05]: relatively

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_09]: so basically wait wait so

[00:46:57] [SPEAKER_09]: they put you to sleep

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_09]: Shingo and Ali are probably

[00:47:03] [SPEAKER_09]: they're trying to advocate or something

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_09]: or are you out of their hands

[00:47:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I think I was mostly out of their hands

[00:47:08] [SPEAKER_05]: at that point I do remember them being like

[00:47:10] [SPEAKER_05]: with me until the moment

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_05]: that I went out but it was

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_05]: our fixer

[00:47:17] [SPEAKER_05]: this guy Haji Ghulam

[00:47:18] [SPEAKER_05]: he was the one like orchestrating all these things

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_05]: the driver and the porters and all this stuff

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_09]: so when you woke up your foot

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_09]: is they'd done the surgery

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_09]: or now it was just cleaned up prepped for surgery

[00:47:29] [SPEAKER_09]: they had done the surgery

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_09]: yeah and I hadn't

[00:47:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I hadn't eaten in two days

[00:47:35] [SPEAKER_05]: which was great

[00:47:36] [SPEAKER_05]: for like the anesthesia

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_05]: which was

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah it's like sweet cool

[00:47:43] [SPEAKER_05]: but yeah it was like one of the

[00:47:45] [SPEAKER_05]: one of the only anesthesiologists

[00:47:47] [SPEAKER_05]: in that part of the country

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_05]: was there that day

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_05]: and one of the best orthopedic surgeons

[00:47:52] [SPEAKER_05]: who had actually like gone to med school at stanford

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_05]: was there

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_05]: it was this insane thing

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_05]: operating out of this like

[00:48:00] [SPEAKER_05]: insanely beat down hospital

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_05]: like I remember there was like

[00:48:04] [SPEAKER_05]: an outdoor stairwell that was

[00:48:05] [SPEAKER_05]: accessible via wheelchair

[00:48:08] [SPEAKER_05]: and there were no railings on it

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was like a four-story building

[00:48:11] [SPEAKER_05]: so you're like going down this

[00:48:13] [SPEAKER_05]: steep incline in a wheelchair

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_05]: and you're like man

[00:48:16] [SPEAKER_05]: this guy loses control of my wheelchair right now

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm going for a four-story ride off of this hotel

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_05]: it's like that kind of infrastructure

[00:48:23] [SPEAKER_05]: and yeah don't get me wrong

[00:48:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like I could not be more grateful

[00:48:27] [SPEAKER_05]: but the whole experience was just

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_05]: so beyond my

[00:48:31] [SPEAKER_05]: my control

[00:48:32] [SPEAKER_05]: all these crazy things happening

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_05]: and all of these insanely lucky things

[00:48:37] [SPEAKER_05]: fell into place to let me

[00:48:39] [SPEAKER_05]: to not die

[00:48:40] [SPEAKER_09]: Was the surgeon available to talk to?

[00:48:43] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah so I have these hilarious photos

[00:48:45] [SPEAKER_05]: they actually took my phone

[00:48:47] [SPEAKER_05]: my last memory of the whole thing

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_05]: right before I passed out was that I was wearing

[00:48:51] [SPEAKER_05]: puffy pants because I was like

[00:48:53] [SPEAKER_05]: out in the mountains for you know

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_05]: these two and a half days or whatever

[00:48:56] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was like don't cut my puffy

[00:48:59] [SPEAKER_05]: pants off there's a zipper on the side

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_05]: and they zipped off

[00:49:03] [SPEAKER_05]: my puffy pants and then I went out

[00:49:04] [SPEAKER_05]: but yeah so I was talking to the surgeon

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_05]: a little bit before I went out

[00:49:08] [SPEAKER_05]: like in these final couple minutes

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_05]: and then I woke up and they were taking

[00:49:12] [SPEAKER_05]: a photo with me

[00:49:13] [SPEAKER_05]: and there was like four or five of them

[00:49:15] [SPEAKER_05]: of the doctors there

[00:49:18] [SPEAKER_05]: and yeah I have these hilarious photos

[00:49:19] [SPEAKER_05]: they had taken my phone out of my

[00:49:22] [SPEAKER_05]: pants when they took them off

[00:49:24] [SPEAKER_05]: and took all these photos of me as they

[00:49:26] [SPEAKER_05]: are operating on me and they're like

[00:49:27] [SPEAKER_05]: there's some cool photos in your phone you should check them out

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_05]: you know when you get a moment

[00:49:31] [SPEAKER_05]: so that was kind of

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_05]: that I woke up with this

[00:49:35] [SPEAKER_05]: surrounded by this group of Pakistani

[00:49:37] [SPEAKER_05]: surgeons and doctors

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_05]: they were so excited to have operated on me

[00:49:42] [SPEAKER_05]: and they didn't fix

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_05]: my foot but my ankle was like

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_05]: super dislocated like my foot was

[00:49:47] [SPEAKER_05]: completely sideways and they relocated it

[00:49:49] [SPEAKER_05]: put the bone back inside

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_05]: and like cleaned everything as best they could

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_05]: and that was it and they just like put me in an

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_05]: open plaster cast

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_05]: and sent me back to the hotel

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_05]: because there were no beds in the hospital

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_05]: right yeah and then I actually ended up

[00:50:02] [SPEAKER_05]: staying in this hotel for

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_05]: five or six days after that

[00:50:06] [SPEAKER_05]: and there was a local nurse

[00:50:08] [SPEAKER_05]: this guy who had heard about my accident

[00:50:10] [SPEAKER_05]: and he volunteered to come and like

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_05]: sit at my bedside for the whole week

[00:50:15] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was insane

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean he like administered IV antibiotics

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_05]: for the whole week

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_05]: two or three times a day

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_05]: he would come with another bag of antibiotics

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_05]: and start pumping them into me

[00:50:26] [SPEAKER_05]: and yeah in hindsight

[00:50:28] [SPEAKER_05]: that was the thing that was like the next thing

[00:50:31] [SPEAKER_05]: that saved my leg I guess

[00:50:32] [SPEAKER_05]: alright yeah

[00:50:34] [SPEAKER_05]: it's a bit intense yeah

[00:50:36] [SPEAKER_05]: that was the long version yeah that was the long version

[00:50:39] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I mean the version you heard before

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_05]: is like you know

[00:50:42] [SPEAKER_05]: it's the same thing you were saying with your presentation

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_05]: like 15 minutes does not do the story justice

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_09]: so but the real thing is

[00:50:49] [SPEAKER_09]: you know is the aftermath

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_09]: like you are

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_09]: you know you're this like

[00:50:54] [SPEAKER_09]: gung-ho kid climber

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_09]: kid young man

[00:50:57] [SPEAKER_09]: 20 whatever kids they're fucking kids at that age

[00:51:00] [SPEAKER_09]: and you get beat down

[00:51:02] [SPEAKER_09]: on several parts of this expedition

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_09]: and then you know this is a

[00:51:07] [SPEAKER_09]: you know this is a traumatic

[00:51:08] [SPEAKER_09]: experience that has to change

[00:51:10] [SPEAKER_09]: your life has to change your outlook

[00:51:12] [SPEAKER_09]: has to change you in some fundamental

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_09]: ways like what are we talking about

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean laying there

[00:51:18] [SPEAKER_09]: dying for three or four days

[00:51:20] [SPEAKER_09]: you know slowly

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_09]: but inevitably

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_09]: should any of this stuff go wrong

[00:51:26] [SPEAKER_09]: you're dead

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_09]: what were your thoughts

[00:51:30] [SPEAKER_09]: have you examined since then

[00:51:32] [SPEAKER_09]: like why tell the story

[00:51:33] [SPEAKER_05]: I've examined a lot right

[00:51:35] [SPEAKER_05]: cause yeah that was like a

[00:51:37] [SPEAKER_05]: you didn't stop climbing

[00:51:38] [SPEAKER_05]: no I thought about it though

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I really really thought about it

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I spent five or six days there

[00:51:45] [SPEAKER_05]: had just like the worst days

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_05]: of my life I had like night terrors

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_05]: like I couldn't sleep because I felt

[00:51:51] [SPEAKER_05]: like I was reliving the accident

[00:51:53] [SPEAKER_05]: every time I'd fall asleep and

[00:51:55] [SPEAKER_05]: it was super awful my girlfriend broke

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_05]: up with me over the phone

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_05]: in that moment it was just

[00:52:01] [SPEAKER_05]: that was a whole other thing but so there was heartbreak

[00:52:03] [SPEAKER_05]: there was like this

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_05]: insane pain I like literally

[00:52:07] [SPEAKER_05]: didn't sleep for a week it was

[00:52:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sorry I laugh at that

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_05]: no no no in hindsight it's like

[00:52:13] [SPEAKER_05]: are you kidding me I can't get that much worse

[00:52:16] [SPEAKER_05]: it was

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_05]: oh and your dog died by the way

[00:52:19] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah yeah exactly

[00:52:20] [SPEAKER_05]: all your shit got stolen

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah perfect

[00:52:27] [SPEAKER_05]: so yeah and then I mean on top

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_05]: of that like I well

[00:52:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I'll just go on with the story

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I made it back home had this

[00:52:35] [SPEAKER_05]: insane travel

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_05]: sequence for I don't know

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_05]: a long time basically we're stuck in

[00:52:41] [SPEAKER_05]: Skardu because the weather wasn't good enough to fly

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_05]: to Islamabad so every day we

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_05]: drive to the airport wait for the airplane

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_05]: it wouldn't land and

[00:52:49] [SPEAKER_05]: then we'd go back to our hotel for a day

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_05]: drive to the airport airplane wouldn't land

[00:52:53] [SPEAKER_05]: and eventually the airplane landed took off

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_05]: went back to Islamabad stayed there

[00:52:57] [SPEAKER_05]: for another night and then

[00:52:59] [SPEAKER_05]: spent whatever 24 hours traveling

[00:53:01] [SPEAKER_05]: back to the US but during that

[00:53:03] [SPEAKER_05]: time my foot was like super unstable

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_05]: you know you're like traveling

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_05]: on an airplane in a basic

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_05]: economy seat with this

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_05]: like insanely messed up foot

[00:53:13] [SPEAKER_05]: it was in an open cast but it was still

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_05]: like bleeding

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_05]: like huge open wound

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_05]: on the side of my foot

[00:53:20] [SPEAKER_05]: that was like really

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_05]: really really rough and

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_05]: through this whole thing all of the medical care I got

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_05]: in Pakistan I wanted

[00:53:29] [SPEAKER_05]: to pay them for everything that they did

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_05]: and I like openly offered to pay

[00:53:33] [SPEAKER_05]: like insisted that I pay

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_05]: and they would not let me

[00:53:37] [SPEAKER_05]: like nothing wouldn't

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_05]: let me give them a dime I went to see doctors

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_05]: in two different cities

[00:53:42] [SPEAKER_05]: and they absolutely refused my money

[00:53:46] [SPEAKER_08]: why do you suppose that is?

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_08]: just the

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I don't really

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if I'm like even at liberty to like

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_05]: guesstimate

[00:53:55] [SPEAKER_05]: why that's like a cultural thing

[00:53:57] [SPEAKER_05]: for them to treat an outsider in that way

[00:53:59] [SPEAKER_05]: but it seems like there's something that I don't

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_09]: totally understand yeah I mean it's part of the

[00:54:03] [SPEAKER_09]: religion to believe yeah

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_09]: yeah I mean it's just interesting because it's

[00:54:07] [SPEAKER_09]: like I'm sure they can't just give

[00:54:09] [SPEAKER_09]: everything away for free to everybody so you were getting

[00:54:11] [SPEAKER_09]: some sort of treatment

[00:54:12] [SPEAKER_05]: and then I flew back home through Seattle

[00:54:14] [SPEAKER_05]: and had to go to an insta care clinic in Seattle

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_05]: just to like

[00:54:18] [SPEAKER_05]: and that cost $700

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_05]: for this woman to like unbandage my foot

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_05]: squirt like you know saline on it

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_05]: and rebandage it and I was like

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_05]: cool I'll pay the copay and then got the $700

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_05]: bill a couple days later I was like

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_05]: man are you kidding me

[00:54:32] [SPEAKER_05]: that was insane but yeah I made it

[00:54:34] [SPEAKER_05]: home and then ended up spending

[00:54:37] [SPEAKER_05]: 10 more days in the hospital after that

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_05]: 3 more surgeries

[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_05]: and then

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_05]: and this is all happening

[00:54:45] [SPEAKER_05]: over 2 weeks after the injury

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_05]: so it's like the bones had already started

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_05]: healing and they couldn't do any like

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_05]: intervening surgeries

[00:54:53] [SPEAKER_05]: so they just like cleaned it and were

[00:54:55] [SPEAKER_05]: giving me antibiotics and

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_05]: gave me a skin graft and all of this stuff

[00:54:59] [SPEAKER_05]: to like get it kind of healed up

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was kind of crazy I mean

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I got home around the beginning of September

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I ended up going back to California to be with

[00:55:07] [SPEAKER_05]: my dad for the time

[00:55:09] [SPEAKER_05]: I started

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I was like able to walk in a

[00:55:13] [SPEAKER_05]: walking boot a month after that

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_05]: which was just like

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_05]: unbelievable so yeah it was about

[00:55:19] [SPEAKER_05]: 6 weeks after the accident

[00:55:20] [SPEAKER_05]: I started walking again it was August

[00:55:23] [SPEAKER_05]: 13th and I started walking

[00:55:25] [SPEAKER_05]: like October 1st

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I actually walked into Colob Canyon

[00:55:28] [SPEAKER_05]: to go watch my friends climb

[00:55:30] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah it was stupid idea but

[00:55:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I wanted to be outside

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_05]: but yeah and I guess

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I glossed over this but in the midst of all that

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_05]: there was the whole disappearance of

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Kyle and Scott on that trip

[00:55:41] [SPEAKER_05]: which I had seen them like right before

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_05]: that trip and Kyle had

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_05]: lent me a bunch of climbing gear

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_05]: and you know was super super excited

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_05]: and supportive of me going on this trip

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_05]: and then we

[00:55:54] [SPEAKER_05]: ended up like leaving some notes

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_05]: for him and stuff in the Indus Motel

[00:55:58] [SPEAKER_05]: where we stayed because they were still

[00:56:00] [SPEAKER_05]: in the mountains and

[00:56:02] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess a few days after we

[00:56:04] [SPEAKER_05]: got home from the trip they were

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_05]: reported missing there's a the storm

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_05]: that came in and then

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_05]: the whole the whole rescue operation

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_05]: took place and during that time

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I was in the hospital so it was like 10 days

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_05]: in the hospital with some friends here and there

[00:56:18] [SPEAKER_05]: but for the most part by myself

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_05]: and just like

[00:56:22] [SPEAKER_05]: scrolling through the internet seeing all

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_05]: of these people donating to help try

[00:56:26] [SPEAKER_05]: and rescue these guys and

[00:56:28] [SPEAKER_05]: obviously we know how

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_05]: that all went but

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_05]: it was heartbreaking like going through

[00:56:34] [SPEAKER_05]: this whole thing and then

[00:56:36] [SPEAKER_05]: coming home to see like two of

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_05]: your heroes die on the

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_05]: same type of trip you know obviously

[00:56:42] [SPEAKER_05]: the thing they were doing was

[00:56:44] [SPEAKER_05]: at a totally different level than what we were there to do

[00:56:46] [SPEAKER_05]: but it was

[00:56:48] [SPEAKER_05]: super powerful I mean it was

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_05]: one of the worst experiences

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_05]: of my life to like sit in

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_05]: that hospital room and

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_05]: and watch that go fund me for their

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_05]: rescue just like be donated to

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_05]: after the other worst experience

[00:57:01] [SPEAKER_05]: of my life exactly yeah

[00:57:04] [SPEAKER_05]: and you know a

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_05]: couple weeks after I got out of the hospital

[00:57:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I ended up going to Kyle's funeral

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_05]: in Salt Lake and

[00:57:12] [SPEAKER_05]: another just terrible

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_05]: experience you know sitting around

[00:57:15] [SPEAKER_05]: surrounded by all of these people who I

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_05]: really really look up to and just seeing

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_05]: everybody completely gutted and

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_05]: obviously just heartbroken over the whole thing was

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_05]: just terrible you know

[00:57:26] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_05]: being there in this boot on crutches

[00:57:30] [SPEAKER_05]: being like man

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_05]: I barely got away

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_05]: that was terrible

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_05]: um

[00:57:38] [SPEAKER_05]: that was super hard

[00:57:41] [SPEAKER_05]: super hard to see all those people in so much pain

[00:57:44] [SPEAKER_09]: so as I said

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_09]: you certainly could

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_09]: fucking give it up start golfing

[00:57:51] [SPEAKER_09]: I don't know something else

[00:57:53] [SPEAKER_09]: um you know tell

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_09]: us about that like

[00:57:57] [SPEAKER_09]: you know what is this

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_09]: path look like for you now when

[00:58:01] [SPEAKER_09]: you're dealing with trauma you're dealing with

[00:58:03] [SPEAKER_09]: whatever memories you have of the accident

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_09]: with the pain of losing your

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_09]: friends obviously

[00:58:09] [SPEAKER_09]: climbing we're sitting here now you know

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_09]: he's still the most important

[00:58:13] [SPEAKER_09]: thing to you or one of the most important things to you so

[00:58:16] [SPEAKER_09]: what was the sort of

[00:58:17] [SPEAKER_09]: path back to it and the decisions

[00:58:19] [SPEAKER_09]: made was it easy was it obvious

[00:58:22] [SPEAKER_09]: was it uh

[00:58:24] [SPEAKER_05]: tricky yeah I don't think

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_05]: it was entirely obvious like

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I seriously considered

[00:58:29] [SPEAKER_05]: stopping climbing all together and had

[00:58:31] [SPEAKER_05]: those conversations with friends and

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_05]: really didn't know what I was going to do

[00:58:36] [SPEAKER_09]: well and also I mean you

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_09]: still wondering what the functionality of your

[00:58:40] [SPEAKER_09]: foot's gonna be when it's out of that cast or

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_09]: were you pretty you know I knew it was pretty good

[00:58:43] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah like

[00:58:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I had totally lucked out

[00:58:47] [SPEAKER_05]: and like a lot of people that have really bad ankle injuries is because they do a bunch of

[00:58:51] [SPEAKER_05]: like ligament damage that kind of thing

[00:58:53] [SPEAKER_05]: and basically my foot had folded

[00:58:55] [SPEAKER_05]: in and all the pressure was

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_05]: released off of my foot because my bone

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_05]: punched through the outside

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_05]: so I yeah exactly

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_05]: it's like best case scenario right

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah so I didn't

[00:59:07] [SPEAKER_05]: do any ligament damage to my foot so it was in

[00:59:09] [SPEAKER_05]: like almost perfect

[00:59:11] [SPEAKER_05]: perfect working order after that

[00:59:13] [SPEAKER_05]: um you know the whole time I was

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_05]: like during the whole rescue operation

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_05]: I was moving my toes and trying to like

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_05]: see if

[00:59:21] [SPEAKER_05]: they're you know I have some nerve damage

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_05]: but besides that everything works

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_05]: extremely well

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_05]: and my foot is kind of miss shaping

[00:59:29] [SPEAKER_05]: and hideous but that's not too atypical

[00:59:32] [SPEAKER_05]: of most climbers so yeah I guess

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_05]: the path back to climbing wasn't super obvious

[00:59:36] [SPEAKER_05]: but for whatever

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_05]: reason I've always been this person who

[00:59:40] [SPEAKER_05]: when I'm injured I go into this kind of

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_05]: hyper motivated version

[00:59:43] [SPEAKER_05]: of myself which I wish I could tap into

[00:59:45] [SPEAKER_05]: all the time but you know I had

[00:59:47] [SPEAKER_05]: knee surgery and would just be like

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_05]: relentless about my physical therapy

[00:59:51] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was the same thing with this

[00:59:54] [SPEAKER_05]: that I had all these surgeries and came out

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_05]: and the doctor cleared me to start doing

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_05]: things and I was like cool I'm going to

[00:59:59] [SPEAKER_05]: like dedicate my entire life to like making

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_05]: my my foot feel better

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_05]: so that I can kind of regain my freedom

[01:00:06] [SPEAKER_05]: and part of

[01:00:07] [SPEAKER_05]: that was that I wanted to give myself

[01:00:09] [SPEAKER_05]: something to work towards and

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_05]: on that trip Shingo had

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_05]: had mentioned

[01:00:15] [SPEAKER_05]: all of his stories about climbing in Patagonia

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_05]: and that was really inspiring to me

[01:00:19] [SPEAKER_05]: and even though this whole experience

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_05]: was super challenging and terrible

[01:00:23] [SPEAKER_05]: in so many ways

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_05]: I felt like I got

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of robbed of the experience

[01:00:29] [SPEAKER_05]: that I wanted you know

[01:00:31] [SPEAKER_05]: nobody wants a trip to end like that

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_05]: and this was my first international

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_05]: climbing trip and my first expedition

[01:00:37] [SPEAKER_05]: and so I

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_05]: I did probably kind of stupidly

[01:00:41] [SPEAKER_05]: in hindsight but I kind of

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_05]: gave myself this goal that I wanted to go to

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_05]: Patagonia like the following winter

[01:00:46] [SPEAKER_05]: so this happened in

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_05]: this happened in August

[01:00:51] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_05]: I

[01:00:54] [SPEAKER_05]: flew to Patagonia on January

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_05]: 25th

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I think the same or the following year

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_05]: like six months later

[01:01:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[01:01:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I went by myself

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I like had some vague plans to meet up

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_05]: with some folks along the way but

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_05]: I felt like I

[01:01:11] [SPEAKER_05]: threw the whole recovery process I wanted to give myself

[01:01:14] [SPEAKER_05]: something to look forward to

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_05]: because things were kind of bleak honestly

[01:01:19] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_05]: you know at the same time of being

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_05]: crushed by

[01:01:23] [SPEAKER_05]: the death of Scott and Kyle

[01:01:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I was also super inspired

[01:01:28] [SPEAKER_05]: like

[01:01:29] [SPEAKER_05]: being at Kyle's funeral and listening to all these

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_05]: stories that people had told about him

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_05]: was

[01:01:36] [SPEAKER_05]: definitely one of the most formidable

[01:01:37] [SPEAKER_05]: moments in my life just to like

[01:01:40] [SPEAKER_05]: see all those people coming together to celebrate

[01:01:42] [SPEAKER_05]: the life of somebody who had like

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_05]: lived so fully over

[01:01:46] [SPEAKER_05]: it's insane to me I'm almost as old

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_05]: now as Kyle

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_05]: was when he died and it's hard

[01:01:52] [SPEAKER_05]: to imagine packing that much into

[01:01:54] [SPEAKER_05]: you know he was 34 when he died

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_05]: it's hard to imagine packing that much

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_05]: in

[01:01:59] [SPEAKER_05]: so I think I took a lot of inspiration

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_05]: from that and when I came back from

[01:02:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Pakistan went through this whole thing

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_05]: I really wanted to give something

[01:02:07] [SPEAKER_05]: to myself to

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_05]: look forward to and

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_05]: I chose this kind of arbitrary goal

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_05]: of like I'm going to go to Patagonia and I'm

[01:02:16] [SPEAKER_05]: going to go climbing and I really had no

[01:02:18] [SPEAKER_05]: objective beyond that

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I just knew that I was excited to go do

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_05]: something

[01:02:23] [SPEAKER_05]: big and adventurous again

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_05]: which part of that definitely was just

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_05]: my like stupid

[01:02:30] [SPEAKER_05]: youthfulness I definitely would not do that

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_05]: now

[01:02:32] [SPEAKER_05]: I would like go I don't know lay on a beach

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_05]: and bah for six months or something

[01:02:38] [SPEAKER_05]: and just like

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_05]: cool off for a little bit but back then

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I think I was just excited enough that I was

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_05]: like I'm ready for the next thing

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_05]: right away

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_09]: and how is that I'm just kind of wondering

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_09]: like you know

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_09]: the last time you were in the mountains all this stuff happened

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_09]: you have these this thing that

[01:02:55] [SPEAKER_09]: probably kind of still can

[01:02:57] [SPEAKER_09]: haunt your dreams maybe oh for sure

[01:02:59] [SPEAKER_09]: but now you're tying in or trying to did you get on the

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_09]: rock well kind of Patagonia trip was it

[01:03:03] [SPEAKER_05]: that was the first time I went to coach mo

[01:03:06] [SPEAKER_05]: okay and yeah

[01:03:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I went on that trip with like

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_05]: fifteen hundred dollars for three months

[01:03:12] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_05]: went kind of full ultra dirt

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_05]: bag like I was working this terrible job

[01:03:17] [SPEAKER_05]: in Salt Lake and quit like a couple

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_05]: days before I went on the trip and

[01:03:21] [SPEAKER_05]: just went for as long

[01:03:23] [SPEAKER_05]: as I felt like I could

[01:03:25] [SPEAKER_05]: and went into coach mo for

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_05]: I think in total I left a couple times

[01:03:30] [SPEAKER_05]: from the valley but ended up going there for

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_05]: eight or nine weeks maybe

[01:03:35] [SPEAKER_05]: and totally fell in love with the place

[01:03:37] [SPEAKER_05]: really really loved it

[01:03:39] [SPEAKER_05]: and was having a really really hard time with the

[01:03:41] [SPEAKER_05]: climbing like it was not an easy thing

[01:03:43] [SPEAKER_05]: for me I was

[01:03:44] [SPEAKER_05]: really scared about

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_05]: every pitch that I climbed

[01:03:48] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was often climbing with with new people

[01:03:52] [SPEAKER_05]: and would tell them

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_05]: this story you know is only six months before

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_05]: that it was like in the same year

[01:03:57] [SPEAKER_05]: and they wouldn't believe

[01:03:59] [SPEAKER_05]: me and be like that didn't just happen

[01:04:01] [SPEAKER_05]: here like how are you here

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and that trip was

[01:04:05] [SPEAKER_05]: was interesting because I was

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_05]: scared shitless the whole time

[01:04:09] [SPEAKER_05]: but still kind of for some

[01:04:11] [SPEAKER_05]: reason trying to like push through and like

[01:04:13] [SPEAKER_05]: get myself back on the horse to

[01:04:15] [SPEAKER_05]: to get to

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_05]: a point where I felt comfortable just because

[01:04:19] [SPEAKER_05]: I felt so excited and inspired

[01:04:21] [SPEAKER_05]: by like traveling and seeing new places

[01:04:23] [SPEAKER_05]: and experiencing other cultures

[01:04:25] [SPEAKER_05]: and this was just part of it

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_05]: something that I had to like

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_05]: maybe not get over but

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_05]: learn to learn to deal with at least

[01:04:33] [SPEAKER_05]: so that started that

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_09]: like your kind of

[01:04:37] [SPEAKER_09]: train of going down there to coach a mo

[01:04:39] [SPEAKER_09]: tells about that place

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean it's

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_05]: you've been yeah yeah

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_05]: it's honestly

[01:04:47] [SPEAKER_05]: it's got to be my favorite place

[01:04:49] [SPEAKER_05]: in the world

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_05]: for a lot of different reasons like the climbing

[01:04:53] [SPEAKER_05]: is not my favorite always

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_05]: it's it's slabbing

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_05]: and the cracks are closed and dirty and all this stuff

[01:04:59] [SPEAKER_05]: but the place itself is so magical

[01:05:01] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[01:05:02] [SPEAKER_05]: in my eyes it's kind of the perfect

[01:05:06] [SPEAKER_05]: intro expedition

[01:05:07] [SPEAKER_05]: I guess you know it's like

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_05]: just close enough to a town

[01:05:11] [SPEAKER_05]: that if you need to you can bail

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_05]: and whatever pick up a new pair of approach

[01:05:15] [SPEAKER_05]: choose if you drop tears or something

[01:05:17] [SPEAKER_05]: whereas obviously you're not going to do that in Pakistan

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_05]: but

[01:05:21] [SPEAKER_05]: it's far enough away that you do feel like quite

[01:05:23] [SPEAKER_05]: removed from everything and to me

[01:05:24] [SPEAKER_05]: that's really important to have this like

[01:05:26] [SPEAKER_05]: feeling of solitude

[01:05:28] [SPEAKER_05]: and yeah I mean I always describe it

[01:05:30] [SPEAKER_05]: to people is just imagine

[01:05:32] [SPEAKER_05]: yourself in Yosemite valley close your eyes

[01:05:35] [SPEAKER_05]: disappear all the roads

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_05]: and all of the cars and reopen your eyes

[01:05:38] [SPEAKER_05]: it's like the coolest place you've ever seen

[01:05:41] [SPEAKER_05]: and yeah

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_05]: that's definitely just how I feel about it

[01:05:44] [SPEAKER_09]: yeah so what about this whole project

[01:05:47] [SPEAKER_09]: that you've

[01:05:49] [SPEAKER_09]: kind of spent the last few years

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_09]: getting into and trying to

[01:05:53] [SPEAKER_09]: trying to free

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_05]: that like started on this first trip

[01:05:56] [SPEAKER_05]: which was pretty cool actually

[01:05:58] [SPEAKER_05]: I was down there in this weird head space

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_05]: like recovering from this injury

[01:06:02] [SPEAKER_05]: climbing basically all of the easiest routes

[01:06:04] [SPEAKER_05]: in Coach Mo and really really enjoying myself

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_05]: and there's this guy Tom

[01:06:08] [SPEAKER_05]: who is up on

[01:06:10] [SPEAKER_05]: this wall called Kapakua that not very

[01:06:13] [SPEAKER_05]: many people climb on I think just because the routes

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_05]: are pretty hard and it's big

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_05]: it's a little bit bigger than

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_05]: then El Cap and it's just back

[01:06:21] [SPEAKER_05]: there it's like not

[01:06:22] [SPEAKER_05]: super easy to access but

[01:06:24] [SPEAKER_05]: it's steep and you know

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_05]: all of the existing routes

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_05]: on it were either at least

[01:06:30] [SPEAKER_05]: hard 512 or like a 4

[01:06:32] [SPEAKER_05]: so it's kind of a

[01:06:35] [SPEAKER_05]: high barrier of entry for most people

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_05]: but he was putting up this new route and

[01:06:39] [SPEAKER_05]: they would be super

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_05]: committed to being up there

[01:06:43] [SPEAKER_05]: for as long as they could with the food

[01:06:44] [SPEAKER_05]: that they had and they had a water source on the wall

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_05]: so they could just stay up there for like

[01:06:48] [SPEAKER_05]: a bunch of days in a row

[01:06:51] [SPEAKER_05]: and he would come down every

[01:06:52] [SPEAKER_05]: couple weeks in a rainstorm or something

[01:06:55] [SPEAKER_05]: and would just be like

[01:06:56] [SPEAKER_05]: raving about this route like it's

[01:06:59] [SPEAKER_05]: so cool and I'm sure you know

[01:07:01] [SPEAKER_05]: like I kind of turn my

[01:07:03] [SPEAKER_05]: brain off whenever somebody starts telling me about

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_05]: how cool their route is and just like

[01:07:06] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure it's great dude like whatever

[01:07:09] [SPEAKER_09]: you're an

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_09]: unreliable narrator

[01:07:12] [SPEAKER_09]: of your own route, of your own

[01:07:14] [SPEAKER_05]: first set. Yeah, but I think in that

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_05]: moment I was pretty intrigued

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_05]: by it he was talking about how

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_05]: like it was too hard for them

[01:07:22] [SPEAKER_05]: they were going to bolt it as a free climb

[01:07:24] [SPEAKER_05]: or protect it as a free climb

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_05]: and just coming back with these insane

[01:07:29] [SPEAKER_05]: tales of like spending 8 hours

[01:07:31] [SPEAKER_05]: leading some crack where they had

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_05]: to like have a machete

[01:07:34] [SPEAKER_05]: and like all these digging tools

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_05]: so that they could dig out placements and they're throwing

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_05]: trees out of the crack and all this stuff

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was just like well

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_05]: that's wild you guys are like kind of hardcore

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_05]: and you know I was coming

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_05]: coming back into the scene of wanting

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_05]: to be adventurous but not really

[01:07:50] [SPEAKER_05]: having like the

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_05]: the mental ability to step back into

[01:07:54] [SPEAKER_05]: that yet

[01:07:57] [SPEAKER_05]: and so I

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_05]: basically wrote the route off

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_05]: that was it but I had it

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_05]: in the back my mind is like oh this is

[01:08:04] [SPEAKER_05]: this cool thing he ended up

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_05]: at the very very end of the trip

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_05]: finishing the route and they came down

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_05]: we all walked out together and spent a few nights

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_05]: in town together and he was just

[01:08:14] [SPEAKER_05]: so psyched the whole time they ended up spending

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_05]: like 40 something days on the wall

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_05]: establishing the route from the ground up

[01:08:20] [SPEAKER_05]: which was incredibly hardcore

[01:08:22] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm like yeah totally blown away

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_05]: by that effort but yeah

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I kind of wrote off the route I hadn't

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_05]: finished the rest of my trip there I was there for like 12 weeks

[01:08:31] [SPEAKER_05]: and traveled a bit in Argentina

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_05]: and went to all these places

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_05]: and hitchhiked and got

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_05]: dropped off in the middle of the desert with no food or water

[01:08:38] [SPEAKER_05]: because I miscommunicated in Spanish

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_05]: and whatever just

[01:08:42] [SPEAKER_05]: all sorts of cool adventures happened on that trip

[01:08:44] [SPEAKER_05]: and it basically ended

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_05]: as well as it as it could have

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_05]: like the experience was so positive

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was so excited

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_05]: to not have a repeat

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_05]: of what had just happened to me in Pakistan

[01:08:57] [SPEAKER_05]: that I think

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_05]: it kind of like sunk its teeth into me

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_05]: its like this is the thing that I want to do

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I like want to go and travel

[01:09:04] [SPEAKER_05]: and have these huge adventures because they can

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_05]: go really really well

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_05]: and these things can be fun it doesn't always have to be

[01:09:10] [SPEAKER_05]: this like horrible toiling

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_05]: experience that we had had

[01:09:14] [SPEAKER_05]: in Asia the year before

[01:09:17] [SPEAKER_09]: Wait though what has happened in the desert

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_09]: with no food and water?

[01:09:21] [SPEAKER_05]: We hitchhiked for like

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_05]: two days to Pietro Parada

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_05]: in Argentina me and

[01:09:26] [SPEAKER_05]: three other friends and it was

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_05]: me a guy from Switzerland

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_05]: who I had been climbing with

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_05]: and these two girls from California that I had known before the trip

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_05]: we split up one guy one girl one guy one girl

[01:09:38] [SPEAKER_05]: were like we're not going to get picked up as a group

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_05]: before so we're going to go two groups of two

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_05]: and we leave this town

[01:09:43] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was just classic like

[01:09:45] [SPEAKER_05]: leapfrog hitchhiking

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_05]: where we me and my friend

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_05]: me and my friend would get picked up

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_05]: and then my other friend would get picked up

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_05]: and we'd see them waving at us out the window

[01:09:55] [SPEAKER_05]: of this car and we end up like

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_05]: bivvying on the side this highway one night

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_05]: and then the second day we're going to try and make it all the way there

[01:10:01] [SPEAKER_05]: because there are no buses or maybe it was

[01:10:03] [SPEAKER_05]: a bus once a week or something like that

[01:10:06] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_05]: my Spanish at the time was

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_05]: not great

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_05]: and we

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_05]: are sitting in this total ghost town

[01:10:15] [SPEAKER_05]: like a couple houses but seems like nobody's there

[01:10:17] [SPEAKER_05]: and no cars had passed through and so we just

[01:10:19] [SPEAKER_05]: start walking out into the desert

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_05]: and on this dirt road

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_05]: and we're like 50 miles away from

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_05]: from the climbing area

[01:10:26] [SPEAKER_05]: and this truck comes by

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_05]: we flag it down he picks us up and we're like

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_05]: sweet or going this road only

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_05]: goes to

[01:10:34] [SPEAKER_05]: Piedra Parada like we don't have to worry about

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_05]: you know going to some

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_05]: random place that we weren't expecting

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_05]: and he drives us about 15 miles into the

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_05]: desert and there's a fork in the road

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_05]: and he starts driving down the other way

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_05]: the wrong way and we're like

[01:10:49] [SPEAKER_05]: oh shit and so we like stop and we're like

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_05]: we need to go this way on Spanish

[01:10:54] [SPEAKER_05]: and he's like

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_05]: oh I'm going this way sorry

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_05]: and we're like okay

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_05]: and so he just drops us on the side of the road

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_05]: and we are like middle of

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_05]: nowhere dirt road we had just

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_05]: been driven like 15 miles outside of

[01:11:07] [SPEAKER_05]: this other middle of nowhere town

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_05]: and he just like left us there

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_05]: that was pretty funny

[01:11:15] [SPEAKER_05]: but and we ended up actually getting picked

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_05]: up by the same car that picked up our

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_05]: friends who were behind us

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_05]: and we had this like epic

[01:11:22] [SPEAKER_05]: it was either two or three

[01:11:25] [SPEAKER_05]: days of hitchhiking to get to the climbing

[01:11:27] [SPEAKER_05]: area I was so poor

[01:11:29] [SPEAKER_05]: like I could not afford

[01:11:31] [SPEAKER_05]: to rent a car actually on that trip

[01:11:33] [SPEAKER_05]: like in the airport on the way home

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_05]: overdue my bank account like

[01:11:37] [SPEAKER_05]: got it to zero dollars

[01:11:39] [SPEAKER_05]: was like cool that's all I got

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_05]: can't do any more than that

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_05]: I had to like ask my dad for

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_05]: 100 bucks or something

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_09]: and I got home from Australia

[01:11:48] [SPEAKER_09]: my first big trip there I had

[01:11:50] [SPEAKER_09]: like zero I didn't even have

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_09]: enough Australian currency to bother

[01:11:54] [SPEAKER_09]: because they you know they don't take the

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_09]: coins yeah yeah I was just like that's it

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_09]: yeah and the same thing

[01:12:00] [SPEAKER_09]: my dad picked me up and I was like

[01:12:01] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm gonna get some food when I get home

[01:12:03] [SPEAKER_08]: at least yeah so

[01:12:06] [SPEAKER_08]: that's awesome so um but let's finish

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_08]: up here let's let's get the story

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_08]: of because this peek-a-floor thing

[01:12:12] [SPEAKER_08]: got stuck in your craw

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_05]: so the

[01:12:15] [SPEAKER_05]: that was a

[01:12:17] [SPEAKER_05]: 2017 and then

[01:12:19] [SPEAKER_05]: 2020

[01:12:21] [SPEAKER_05]: I saw an instagram

[01:12:23] [SPEAKER_05]: post from the belgian

[01:12:25] [SPEAKER_05]: seabae and he

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_05]: had been in coachmo right

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_05]: before the pandemic happened and he

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_05]: posted this photo of some wall

[01:12:33] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was just like oh my god that's amazing

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_05]: and started reading the caption and it

[01:12:37] [SPEAKER_05]: was this root peek floor he had gone up

[01:12:39] [SPEAKER_05]: to try to free it and

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_05]: wrote this big long report about how they

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_05]: had done it on New Year's Day

[01:12:45] [SPEAKER_05]: I think and

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_05]: that it was incredible

[01:12:49] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of dirty and probably

[01:12:51] [SPEAKER_05]: went free at like 13 plus

[01:12:53] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was like oh my god I can't believe

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_05]: that he actually went to go do that root

[01:12:57] [SPEAKER_05]: and so that was kind of my like

[01:12:59] [SPEAKER_05]: little guiding light for the next year

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_05]: where I was like sweet I'm gonna get out of this pandemic

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and go and try and do this root

[01:13:05] [SPEAKER_05]: one year one and two and then

[01:13:07] [SPEAKER_05]: whatever we ended up going down there on

[01:13:09] [SPEAKER_05]: New Year's Day on 2022

[01:13:11] [SPEAKER_05]: me and Bronwyn who's been on the show

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_05]: and Danford

[01:13:16] [SPEAKER_05]: Yusta who's been mentioned on the show

[01:13:17] [SPEAKER_05]: many times. Yeah he's like the

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_09]: supporting support like best

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_09]: supporting man. He like literally is

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_09]: at the Oscars you know and it's for a good reason

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_05]: like he's one of the best

[01:13:27] [SPEAKER_05]: most supportive climbing partners ever

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_05]: like non-judgmental

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_05]: psyched like such a great dude

[01:13:34] [SPEAKER_08]: Wasn't there a fourth two or just three of you

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_05]: that time? And Tyler

[01:13:37] [SPEAKER_08]: Carol. Oh right. Yeah he's been on the show as well.

[01:13:39] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah yeah so yeah Tyler was

[01:13:41] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of a funny thing that we had just met in the

[01:13:43] [SPEAKER_05]: valley like the fall

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_05]: before that for like

[01:13:47] [SPEAKER_05]: 10 minutes and

[01:13:49] [SPEAKER_05]: he was going front climbing with a friend

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_05]: of mine Alex Morris

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_05]: and I saw Alex right after

[01:13:55] [SPEAKER_05]: they came down from climbing together and I was like

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_05]: oh like how's Tyler you know

[01:13:59] [SPEAKER_05]: as a climbing partner as a guy and she's

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_05]: like he's like the best climbing partner

[01:14:03] [SPEAKER_05]: I've ever had he's like so sweet and

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_05]: nice and he led the scary pitches

[01:14:07] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was like sick and I sent

[01:14:09] [SPEAKER_05]: him. I need that guy. I know exactly

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_05]: Tyler's like everybody's freaking dream climbing

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_05]: partner he's such a good dude

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_05]: but he

[01:14:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I sent him an Instagram message like

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_05]: the same day and was like hey I'm trying to

[01:14:21] [SPEAKER_05]: put together a team to go try and do this thing

[01:14:23] [SPEAKER_05]: we're all terrible at aid climbing so we

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of want like somebody down there who's

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_05]: good at aid climbing and can rope gun for

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_05]: us and he had actually already been

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_05]: planning a trip down there so he was like

[01:14:33] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I'll just come out early and hang out with you guys for

[01:14:35] [SPEAKER_05]: a month and then go down to Shulton

[01:14:38] [SPEAKER_05]: so yeah this is the four of us

[01:14:40] [SPEAKER_05]: Tyler just for the first half

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_05]: of the trip but

[01:14:43] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah it was a pretty

[01:14:45] [SPEAKER_05]: funny trip like got down there not

[01:14:47] [SPEAKER_05]: really knowing what to expect not knowing

[01:14:49] [SPEAKER_05]: how hard the route was going to be didn't know any

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_05]: of the logistics of the thing and

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_05]: through a series of

[01:14:56] [SPEAKER_05]: of

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_05]: extremely fortunate events we

[01:15:00] [SPEAKER_05]: bought a bunch of static

[01:15:01] [SPEAKER_05]: rope from some people who were leaving early

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and just kind of

[01:15:05] [SPEAKER_05]: like piece together the route to

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_05]: the point where we were

[01:15:09] [SPEAKER_05]: a thousand meters of rope

[01:15:11] [SPEAKER_05]: fixed on the wall because we realized

[01:15:13] [SPEAKER_05]: that the hard climbing was like right at

[01:15:15] [SPEAKER_05]: the top and there's no possible way to walk into

[01:15:17] [SPEAKER_05]: the top of the wall and

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_05]: every inch of the wall needed to be

[01:15:21] [SPEAKER_05]: scrubbed to some degree so we're up

[01:15:23] [SPEAKER_05]: there with wire brushes just like destroying

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_05]: our knuckles for weeks and weeks

[01:15:27] [SPEAKER_05]: and

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_05]: we kind of

[01:15:30] [SPEAKER_05]: took the the belgian

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_05]: teams like idea

[01:15:33] [SPEAKER_05]: of a team free ascent you know of like

[01:15:35] [SPEAKER_05]: going up and having your little individual project

[01:15:38] [SPEAKER_05]: pitches so that you can open the route for the

[01:15:40] [SPEAKER_05]: community and

[01:15:42] [SPEAKER_05]: Ron had hers Danford had his

[01:15:44] [SPEAKER_05]: and I had mine and

[01:15:45] [SPEAKER_05]: we spent a ton of time

[01:15:48] [SPEAKER_05]: up there just mini tracking and trying to make

[01:15:49] [SPEAKER_05]: these things happen and at the end of the

[01:15:51] [SPEAKER_05]: trip on the very very last day we had

[01:15:53] [SPEAKER_05]: slept on the summit and we're wrapping

[01:15:56] [SPEAKER_05]: the route and we had four pitches left

[01:15:58] [SPEAKER_05]: to do there's like 512

[01:16:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Danford's pitch my pitch and Bronwyn's

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_05]: pitch

[01:16:04] [SPEAKER_05]: Danford's pitch was the last one

[01:16:06] [SPEAKER_05]: and he

[01:16:08] [SPEAKER_05]: wrapped down

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_05]: fired the pitch first try like sick and then

[01:16:12] [SPEAKER_05]: we go down I climbed the unclimbed

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_05]: 512 and then

[01:16:15] [SPEAKER_05]: try to climb my pitch which I had spent

[01:16:18] [SPEAKER_05]: like 10

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_05]: 10 or 12 days on at that point and

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_05]: it was super hard and

[01:16:24] [SPEAKER_05]: I was

[01:16:25] [SPEAKER_05]: way overly optimistic about making it

[01:16:28] [SPEAKER_05]: happen but was just up there like blasting

[01:16:30] [SPEAKER_05]: music by myself for super long

[01:16:32] [SPEAKER_05]: days trying to figure out how to climb this like

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_05]: insanely hard slab and never quite did one

[01:16:36] [SPEAKER_05]: move but had done the rest of it so I was

[01:16:38] [SPEAKER_05]: like maybe if I just try really hard

[01:16:40] [SPEAKER_05]: I can do it and basically

[01:16:42] [SPEAKER_05]: tied in and came really

[01:16:44] [SPEAKER_05]: really close to doing this thing

[01:16:45] [SPEAKER_05]: fell off and was like well that's kind

[01:16:48] [SPEAKER_05]: of that's kind of it and we

[01:16:49] [SPEAKER_05]: continued down the wall and Bronwyn

[01:16:51] [SPEAKER_05]: did her pitch first try which she had also spent

[01:16:54] [SPEAKER_05]: like 10 or 12 days on and it was

[01:16:56] [SPEAKER_05]: cool as like the sun

[01:16:57] [SPEAKER_05]: was creeping up at her heels as she was

[01:16:59] [SPEAKER_05]: climbing up this slab it was like

[01:17:01] [SPEAKER_05]: truly the last possible moment of the trip

[01:17:03] [SPEAKER_05]: and you know that's

[01:17:05] [SPEAKER_05]: that's obviously a thing that happens all the time

[01:17:07] [SPEAKER_05]: right just like no expectations I'd just

[01:17:09] [SPEAKER_05]: go try really hard at the end of the trip

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_05]: and get it done but it's always cool

[01:17:13] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah I think it happens to Bronwyn on a pretty frequent occasion

[01:17:15] [SPEAKER_09]: Yeah well Bronwyn's just like

[01:17:17] [SPEAKER_05]: kind of built different right she's so strong

[01:17:19] [SPEAKER_05]: and talented it's crazy

[01:17:22] [SPEAKER_05]: so anyways

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_05]: it left the wall

[01:17:25] [SPEAKER_05]: with this like

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_05]: three foot section of unclimbed rock

[01:17:29] [SPEAKER_09]: Right it's like a tiny little move

[01:17:31] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean it was like I could get my foot onto this

[01:17:33] [SPEAKER_05]: foothold

[01:17:34] [SPEAKER_05]: if I was stood up on the foothold

[01:17:36] [SPEAKER_05]: I could continue and do the rest of the pitch

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_05]: but I couldn't like get my leg from 90 to

[01:17:41] [SPEAKER_05]: straight so

[01:17:43] [SPEAKER_05]: it was this whole thing and I was like man

[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_05]: this is and I literally spent

[01:17:47] [SPEAKER_05]: I probably tried that move like I'm sorry

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_05]: I'm laughing no no no it's great

[01:17:50] [SPEAKER_05]: it's the stupidest thing right

[01:17:52] [SPEAKER_05]: it's like come on yeah the stupidity of it all

[01:17:54] [SPEAKER_05]: like I probably tried this move like

[01:17:56] [SPEAKER_05]: at least 500 times like just

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_05]: destroyed pairs of shoes and I was up there

[01:18:01] [SPEAKER_05]: with like several pairs of shoes trying

[01:18:03] [SPEAKER_05]: all of them and like doing all the tricks

[01:18:05] [SPEAKER_05]: and all this stuff and just never made it happen

[01:18:08] [SPEAKER_05]: but then obviously

[01:18:09] [SPEAKER_05]: it's like you get so close to doing something

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_05]: and you cannot go back so

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_05]: so we went back

[01:18:14] [SPEAKER_05]: you can I guess you could not go back

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_05]: but I don't know maybe that's just in my

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_09]: my personality like so

[01:18:20] [SPEAKER_09]: you went back

[01:18:21] [SPEAKER_09]: to free the three feet of the rock

[01:18:24] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah yeah and we went

[01:18:26] [SPEAKER_05]: I went back with like kind of the dream team

[01:18:28] [SPEAKER_05]: so I went with

[01:18:30] [SPEAKER_05]: with Jacob cook Bronwyn's husband

[01:18:32] [SPEAKER_05]: who he's probably

[01:18:34] [SPEAKER_05]: like the best slab climber in North

[01:18:36] [SPEAKER_05]: America he's like so good

[01:18:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I don't know about the Europeans but like

[01:18:40] [SPEAKER_05]: in North America he is as good as it gets

[01:18:42] [SPEAKER_05]: like you know he's probably

[01:18:44] [SPEAKER_05]: better than like Tommy Caldwell even

[01:18:46] [SPEAKER_05]: like at the pure friction slab it's

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_05]: insane you watch him climb a 513 slab

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_05]: and it looks like 5'9".

[01:18:51] [SPEAKER_05]: Like man that is next level

[01:18:54] [SPEAKER_05]: that's not something I'm capable of

[01:18:56] [SPEAKER_05]: so I went with

[01:18:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Jacob and Will Sharp

[01:18:59] [SPEAKER_05]: who's a friend of mine from Colorado who

[01:19:01] [SPEAKER_05]: I had climbed with the previous spring in

[01:19:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Vegas and he's

[01:19:05] [SPEAKER_05]: a super strong young fit dude

[01:19:08] [SPEAKER_05]: and we climbed together for like three days

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_05]: and I was like oh my god you are

[01:19:11] [SPEAKER_05]: the perfect guy for the job

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_05]: he's like fearless, totally badass

[01:19:15] [SPEAKER_05]: and a really good dude

[01:19:18] [SPEAKER_05]: checks all the boxes for

[01:19:19] [SPEAKER_05]: an expedition at least

[01:19:22] [SPEAKER_05]: so

[01:19:24] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah I went down there with those two guys

[01:19:26] [SPEAKER_05]: and my girlfriend and like

[01:19:27] [SPEAKER_05]: handful or two filmers as well

[01:19:29] [SPEAKER_05]: so it was kind of a big posse but

[01:19:32] [SPEAKER_05]: we

[01:19:34] [SPEAKER_05]: spent six weeks

[01:19:36] [SPEAKER_05]: climbing on the route five or six weeks climbing

[01:19:38] [SPEAKER_05]: on it fixing ropes doing all the things

[01:19:39] [SPEAKER_05]: we had to like re-clean the whole thing

[01:19:41] [SPEAKER_05]: we had to add some bolts and Will

[01:19:43] [SPEAKER_05]: actually ended up finding like a different

[01:19:45] [SPEAKER_05]: variation to this pitch that I had

[01:19:47] [SPEAKER_05]: not been able to do

[01:19:49] [SPEAKER_05]: which is such a silly thing I mean

[01:19:51] [SPEAKER_05]: where I was traversing in from right to left

[01:19:53] [SPEAKER_05]: to stand onto this foothold

[01:19:54] [SPEAKER_05]: Will found a way to traverse

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_05]: from left to right to stand on the same foothold

[01:19:59] [SPEAKER_05]: with your other foot

[01:20:00] [SPEAKER_05]: and it was just like this ridiculous big wall

[01:20:03] [SPEAKER_05]: thing where you're like man we go through all these

[01:20:05] [SPEAKER_05]: shenanigans so many like

[01:20:07] [SPEAKER_05]: hundreds of hours of work just to be able

[01:20:09] [SPEAKER_05]: to like stand on this single foothold

[01:20:12] [SPEAKER_05]: and it still continued

[01:20:13] [SPEAKER_05]: to like give me all sorts of

[01:20:15] [SPEAKER_05]: trouble you know for many many days

[01:20:17] [SPEAKER_05]: I like sat up there and tried to work through it

[01:20:19] [SPEAKER_05]: and eventually got through it

[01:20:21] [SPEAKER_05]: and did the thing and all of us

[01:20:23] [SPEAKER_05]: ended up freeing the route in a

[01:20:25] [SPEAKER_05]: in a seven day push and it was

[01:20:27] [SPEAKER_05]: just incredible it's like one of the best climbing

[01:20:29] [SPEAKER_05]: experiences of my life all sent

[01:20:31] [SPEAKER_05]: all the pitches in pretty good

[01:20:33] [SPEAKER_05]: style you know we did a couple like

[01:20:35] [SPEAKER_05]: I did a couple pitches from stances

[01:20:37] [SPEAKER_05]: but besides that Jacob actually

[01:20:39] [SPEAKER_05]: didn't fall the whole time which was

[01:20:41] [SPEAKER_05]: unbelievable and it was just

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_05]: this huge effort we really

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_05]: put everything we had

[01:20:47] [SPEAKER_05]: into it I mean all of the work

[01:20:49] [SPEAKER_05]: 900 meters of rope

[01:20:51] [SPEAKER_05]: to bring up there like

[01:20:54] [SPEAKER_05]: many many thousands

[01:20:55] [SPEAKER_05]: of meters jugged like you have to jug

[01:20:57] [SPEAKER_05]: 800 meters to get to the crux pitch

[01:20:59] [SPEAKER_05]: of this route so it's basically like you have to climb

[01:21:01] [SPEAKER_05]: like aял cap to go try like a 10 foot

[01:21:04] [SPEAKER_05]: V10 boulder problem

[01:21:05] [SPEAKER_05]: it's like the silliest

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_05]: thing but you know in the end

[01:21:09] [SPEAKER_05]: it was about as

[01:21:11] [SPEAKER_05]: as rewarding as it could have been

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_05]: and it felt like kind of the last

[01:21:15] [SPEAKER_05]: page of this insane story from

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_05]: my from this whole accident

[01:21:19] [SPEAKER_05]: in paxton to like finishing this route

[01:21:21] [SPEAKER_05]: after spending 40 something

[01:21:23] [SPEAKER_05]: days on the wall over the course of two trips

[01:21:25] [SPEAKER_05]: and making a bunch of really

[01:21:27] [SPEAKER_05]: good friends along the way

[01:21:28] [SPEAKER_05]: and learning so, so much about myself.

[01:21:31] [SPEAKER_09]: So does any of that trauma from that,

[01:21:34] [SPEAKER_09]: that Pakistan thing linger around in there?

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_05]: For sure, yeah.

[01:21:38] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I just approach climbing super differently.

[01:21:41] [SPEAKER_05]: I probably don't come across as a person

[01:21:43] [SPEAKER_05]: who really understands how silly climbing can be

[01:21:46] [SPEAKER_05]: if I'm willing to spend all of this time

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_05]: to go do this insanely arbitrary thing.

[01:21:51] [SPEAKER_05]: But when it comes to moments of like,

[01:21:55] [SPEAKER_05]: you know, it's kind of hard to place that wire.

[01:21:58] [SPEAKER_05]: Do I place it on lead?

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_05]: Do I pre-place it?

[01:22:02] [SPEAKER_05]: Whatever those kinds of things.

[01:22:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Since the accident, I've been like really,

[01:22:06] [SPEAKER_05]: really lenient towards taking the low road there

[01:22:10] [SPEAKER_05]: and like trying to make things a little bit safer

[01:22:12] [SPEAKER_05]: by like compromising on my style, I guess.

[01:22:15] [SPEAKER_05]: And you know, that's for better or worse.

[01:22:17] [SPEAKER_05]: People give me a hard time about it sometimes,

[01:22:19] [SPEAKER_05]: but I don't really care.

[01:22:21] [SPEAKER_05]: And I think that it's hard to give somebody

[01:22:25] [SPEAKER_05]: a hard time over something like that

[01:22:26] [SPEAKER_05]: unless you've seen the consequences

[01:22:28] [SPEAKER_05]: of how that kind of thing can play out, you know?

[01:22:30] [SPEAKER_05]: And if you've seen the consequences

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_05]: and then you're still okay with like pushing style

[01:22:34] [SPEAKER_05]: in a way that adds a lot of danger to climbing,

[01:22:37] [SPEAKER_05]: then that's fine.

[01:22:40] [SPEAKER_05]: But for me, I think it's just not worth it.

[01:22:41] [SPEAKER_05]: It's not something I wanna go through again.

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_09]: When you finish this thing, this is great experience.

[01:22:47] [SPEAKER_09]: You know, I've asked this question to a bunch of people,

[01:22:49] [SPEAKER_09]: but you know, is there like,

[01:22:53] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, how many years was it from first seeing it

[01:22:55] [SPEAKER_09]: to sending it?

[01:22:57] [SPEAKER_05]: 2017 to 2024, seven years I guess.

[01:23:01] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, there's lots of climbing in between, right?

[01:23:03] [SPEAKER_05]: You know, capital.

[01:23:03] [SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:23:05] [SPEAKER_09]: And I mean, but what about like replacing this project?

[01:23:09] [SPEAKER_09]: I mean, there's always like the little bit of a like,

[01:23:13] [SPEAKER_09]: what do I do now?

[01:23:14] [SPEAKER_05]: I mean, for sure.

[01:23:15] [SPEAKER_05]: I had this like insane slump coming off the trip

[01:23:18] [SPEAKER_05]: and I've been like writing a bunch about this recently

[01:23:20] [SPEAKER_05]: to try to like process everything and what it means to me.

[01:23:23] [SPEAKER_05]: And I came up with this analogy

[01:23:25] [SPEAKER_05]: that it feels really akin to like closing the last page

[01:23:30] [SPEAKER_05]: of a book that you really love where you're like,

[01:23:32] [SPEAKER_05]: so on the cusp of like knowing what it all means

[01:23:37] [SPEAKER_05]: and you finish and you're just like really hoping

[01:23:41] [SPEAKER_05]: that there's one more little thing

[01:23:43] [SPEAKER_05]: that you could glean from it and there's just not.

[01:24:12] [SPEAKER_09]: All right, folks, thanks for listening

[01:24:13] [SPEAKER_09]: and thanks to Hayden for coming to my hotel room in Lander.

[01:24:20] [SPEAKER_09]: If any of y'all listening went to that fest,

[01:24:22] [SPEAKER_09]: you'll maybe remember that it was hot, so hot.

[01:24:26] [SPEAKER_09]: And one of my pitches to the folks

[01:24:28] [SPEAKER_09]: that I interviewed up there was,

[01:24:29] [SPEAKER_09]: hey, my hotel room's got AC.

[01:24:32] [SPEAKER_09]: So it was quite nice to draw the shades,

[01:24:35] [SPEAKER_09]: kick it in the hotel room, get out of the heat for a bit

[01:24:37] [SPEAKER_09]: and listen to Hayden's story.

[01:24:39] [SPEAKER_09]: You can of course follow Hayden on Instagram,

[01:24:42] [SPEAKER_09]: Hayden Jameson, that's it.

[01:24:45] [SPEAKER_09]: He's up in Canada right now.

[01:24:46] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm gonna be up in Canada soon.

[01:24:48] [SPEAKER_09]: And the Arcterics Academy is not the only time

[01:24:51] [SPEAKER_09]: I'm gonna be in Canada this fall.

[01:24:54] [SPEAKER_09]: I'll talk about the other time coming up soon.

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_09]: All right, folks, don't forget to check your nods.

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_09]: And for Hayden's sake,

[01:25:04] [SPEAKER_09]: whether you have more than one piece

[01:25:06] [SPEAKER_09]: between you and the ground.

[01:25:24] [SPEAKER_02]: MUSIC

[01:25:35] [SPEAKER_04]: Bring out your dead husband.

[01:25:37] [SPEAKER_04]: Nine-pence.

[01:25:38] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not dead.

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_04]: What? Nothing, here's your nine-pence.

[01:25:41] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not dead.

[01:25:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he says he's not dead.

[01:25:44] [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, he is.

[01:25:45] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not. He isn't.

[01:25:47] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.

[01:25:48] [SPEAKER_04]: I'm getting better.

[01:25:49] [SPEAKER_04]: No, you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.

[01:25:51] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't take him like that.

[01:25:53] [SPEAKER_04]: It's against regulations.

[01:25:54] [SPEAKER_04]: I don't want to go over the camp.

[01:25:56] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, don't be such a baby.

[01:25:57] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't take him.

[01:25:58] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel fine.

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, do us a favour.

[01:26:01] [SPEAKER_04]: I can't.

[01:26:02] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, can you hang around a couple of minutes?

[01:26:03] [SPEAKER_04]: He won't be long.

[01:26:04] [SPEAKER_04]: No, I've got to go to Robinson's.

[01:26:05] [SPEAKER_04]: They've lost nine today.

[01:26:07] [SPEAKER_04]: Well, when's your next round?

[01:26:08] [SPEAKER_04]: Thursday.

[01:26:09] [SPEAKER_04]: I think I'll go for a walk.

[01:26:11] [SPEAKER_04]: You're not fooling anyone, you know.

[01:26:12] [SPEAKER_04]: Look, who knows something you can do.

[01:26:14] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel happy.

[01:26:16] [SPEAKER_04]: I feel happy.

[01:26:18] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, thanks very much.

[01:26:20] [SPEAKER_04]: Bye-bye.

[01:26:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Now it ain't fair the teacher's told me that's where it's at