Enormocast 287: Mo Beck – A Certain Version of Fine

[00:00:00] You are listening to The Enormocast. All right. All right. Settle down, everybody. Settle down. Okay. Black Diamond C4. Take it away. Oh, okay. Is this, is this thing on? All right, everybody. Uh, I know you have a few questions after a long winter of ice climbing.

[00:00:18] So, um, yeah, you in the back, uh, the trad dad with the Sig. So it seems like I've had black diamond camel outs hanging off my rack since 1987. How are you still so high on the horse boy? Well, BD retools and redesigns on the rag.

[00:00:34] I'm lighter, stronger with every upgrade. Too bad we can't say the same about you. Hunt, rad dad. Okay. Who's next? Uh, yeah, the comp kid who crushes trad now. My mom bought me three sets of ultra light camelots.

[00:00:48] Well, kid, those ultra lights are sweet, but not everybody has a mom with a platinum card willing to buy her snookums, whatever she wants. Now do they? So yeah, ultra lights are swell. The Ferraris. But a C4 camelots. We're down here in the trenches with you every day.

[00:01:02] Know what I'm saying? Like the cam equivalent of your Tacoma. Just ask the Creek climbers over there. Hell yeah, brother. Okay. One last question. A guy on the internet that doesn't actually climb. Um, it says here that a number one C4 holds 12 kilonewtons while this

[00:01:17] other brand holds 12.2 kilonewtons. Now in a situation where a factor two occurs after a meteor strike resulting in an ionic reverse polarity electromagnetic shockwave, the question is, uh, would my quad fail? Hold on a second, buckaroo. Have you ever actually placed a cam? Uh, no. All right.

[00:01:33] I gotta go. But just remember there's only one black diamond C4 camelot. So quit screwing around and go to blackdiamondequipment.com or a local shop and give us a squeeze. See what you think. Camelots rule. Imitators drool. Peace. All right, folks get ready.

[00:01:53] Our climbers been out all day. Whether they summit it or plummeted. They're going to need an ice cold beer to either celebrate or drown their sorrows. Uh, excusez-moi? What if they don't drink as the alcohol? What are you talking about, La Croix?

[00:02:07] Post-climbing beers is a tradition as old as Jim Donini's polypro undies. Écoutez-moi à présent. Je m'appelle La Croix. La Croix? Aren't you from Wisconsin, boy? Wait, who told you that? You never mind. Topo Chico, you back there? Je suis aqui, manito. L8?

[00:02:25] Well, them climbers want a boozy libation like me or just refreshing clean living effervescence. Another thing we can all agree on is this Yeti Tundra cooler is keeping us colder than a polar bear's toenails. Ice cold.

[00:02:41] Sturdier than a three bolt quad anchor backed up with a pink tri-cam. A Yeti Tundra cooler will outlast just about any gear in a climber's kit. Hell, that can of tomato juice over there has been rattling around in here for years. Somebody kill me.

[00:02:57] So before some of us get popped and swilled, just remember one thing. Without this Yeti Tundra cooler, we'd all be sloshed around in bath warm broccoli cheese water by now.

[00:03:09] So if climbers know what's what, they'll check out all the sizes of the Yeti Tundra cooler at Yeti.com or their favorite outdoor retailer. And let Yeti finish every best day ever with cold drinks and high fives. Listen, where you playing in town? You playing here?

[00:03:28] We're doing the Normo dome, whatever it is. It's terrific. Oh yeah, big place. That side of town. That's a big place. You sold it out. I'll say so. You really should. The hell are you doing? I couldn't sleep. I'm checking the roads.

[00:03:45] There was a freight end on Europe and I'm cutting it out. Good weather, bad weather. Now or later, any time. Today's show is brought to you by Black Time and Equipment, La Sportiva, and with support from Maxim Ropes.

[00:04:11] Maxim has been keeping the Normo cast off the deck since 2012. And now we can also thank the chill folks at Yeti. And don't forget our charter sponsor, Bonfire Coffee.

[00:04:22] Go to bonfirecoffee.com and entry normo at checkout to get a great deal on great coffee and to support the Normo cast. And now back to the show. Hello and welcome to the Enorma Cast. This is your host, Chris Gluz.

[00:04:44] It is June 20th, 2024, about 11 o'clock here in Ten Sleep, Wyoming. And this is episode 287 of the Enorma Cast, a conversation with climber and para-climbing champion Mo Beck. And do I sound weird? I think I sound just a little bit weird.

[00:05:06] I'm using a mobile recording setup here in my camper. I'm sitting on the streets of Ten Sleep, Wyoming on a climbing vacation with my family. Still banging these things out for you people.

[00:05:17] On my vacation in the middle of the night, everyone else is sleeping, getting ready for another day of pulling on those smoothed out pockets. Not me. I'm out here making a podcast for you guys. So when I don't send tomorrow because of lack of sleep, it's on you.

[00:05:35] Not me, you. And our camper is literally parked on the side of the street in Ten Sleep, Wyoming, which for a town of 240 some people is remarkably loud. I think maybe two thirds of the male population of this small town own really loud vehicles.

[00:05:56] It's like a loud truck arms race up in here. But I also famously complained about Squamish being loud. So maybe it's me. Maybe I'm just hypersensitive to this whole thing. How's the vacation going? It's going great. Climbing at all the popular crags, enjoying myself.

[00:06:14] It's very low commitment kind of climbing up here in Ten Sleep, in my opinion. Not too devious, bolted well, shall we say, comfortized. Nevertheless, you can just go for it. I feel like nice vacation climbing. And since it's vacation, let's just get straight to Mobek.

[00:06:33] Mobek is the climber we need when it comes to talking about climbers with disabilities. Mo was born with one hand and a short stump on the other side. And yet that didn't stop her from doing much of anything, including discovering climbing when she was around 12 and getting hooked.

[00:06:51] Mo is a highly decorated para climber, a National Geographic Adventure of the Year rock climber, expedition alpinist, ice climber. Mo is an American Alpine Club board member. She's a USA climbing board member. She's one of the founders of the Adaptive Climbers Festival.

[00:07:13] And yet, and yet she took some time to talk to us. Do we appreciate that? Of course we do. So let's get to it. A conversation with climber Mobek. Are you out of balance? Do you slip and slide through your climbs like a moist and mucilaginous slug?

[00:07:38] Frankly, do you feel like you're losing your edge? Hi, I'm Alan Honlove of the Good Catch Institute. And what if I told you that losing your edge could be a good thing?

[00:07:52] You see, your granddad dreamed of sending the gnar on vertical granite and riding high on dime-sized footholds and tight stiff shoes. However, he also thought that training simply involved crushing King Cobra malt liquor in a parking lot.

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[00:09:00] And go to sportiva.com or your favorite local shop to lose your edge but gain control of your life. Or at least your footwork. Which is kind of the same thing. Make me look cool and smart is the only, you know. Well, you know.

[00:09:18] I could do a lot. Small ask. I can't do magic, but no. I think it's going to be fine. I think it's going to be fine. Like I said, you're quite savvy to this scene these days. So, it's cool. And again, I appreciate it.

[00:09:33] I know you're super busy, which is why I didn't give up on you. And I appreciate you finally making the time. You know, it's the little things. I think it's always because I would get your message on a phone and be like,

[00:09:44] oh, but it's a pain in the ass to look at my calendar on a phone. I'm going to remember when I'm on my laptop. And then, you know, you never do. No, and like, yeah. I mean, in messaging, you just,

[00:09:54] everyone's getting so many messages from so many different directions. It's like, you know, did I get that on Instagram? Did I get an email? Was it a text? Where did it come from? I have for sure laid in bed at night being like,

[00:10:06] I owe someone a message, but I can't find their original message. But I know I owe this person something. No, this kid, this kid, I assume he was a kid, probably 20-something. They're all kids. He emailed us, me and Andrew actually, or just me, you know, about like,

[00:10:22] I really want to be involved in your podcasting. And I live like here in the Valley and like, I'll do whatever, you know, who jokingly said like, I'll bring you coffee. I have some media background with this and that. And like a couple weeks later,

[00:10:36] I was like, yeah, I should hit that kid up because, you know, the whole video thing's a pain in the ass. Yeah, and coffee sounds great. Yeah. And I still, that was months ago. I still have no idea where that message came in.

[00:10:47] You could include this in the show then as like maybe a shout out. Like, hey, K-Kid. Yeah, no, we're in. We're started. That's a really good idea, Mo. Yeah, if you did that and you were local and then yeah, hit me back.

[00:11:00] I really honestly like I have no idea what happened to it. I might have accidentally deleted it in a fit of my once a year fit of like trying to clean my email box. I don't know what happened to it. Hit us back because yeah,

[00:11:14] we'd love to chat about whatever. So yeah, that's a good idea. Thanks. We've gotten started then. Well, with that introduction, let's just dive in. Yeah, totally. Well, you know how this works. I'll do a separate introduction later. So where are you beaming in from?

[00:11:30] You live on the Front Range still? Yeah, I'm in Arvada, Tex-Arvada here in the western side of Denver. No, it's pretty sweet. You know, it is a suburb, but I am like 20 minutes from Eldo, 30 minutes from Bocan, 25 minutes from Clear Creek, close to 70.

[00:11:48] So, you know, of course I feel like I belong in the mountains. I've moved here from small towns and it still feels weird 12 years later to be in the burbs where I can see the glow of the nearest Target. But it's a pretty sweet base camp. Nice.

[00:12:02] Yeah, I mean, you need stuff from Target once in a while. Exactly. It can guide you in. Yeah, you know, it's like the Front Range. You know, I'm over here on the western slope and I don't know how long have you been down there?

[00:12:13] It was supposed to be a three year thing. Then we're going to scurry back to Vermont and it's been 12. Okay, so you've been there a while. So you've watched it change. It's gotten kind of bonkers down there. Well, I'll acknowledge you have a part of the problem, right?

[00:12:25] Right. That's okay. It's great to see you and I'm excited to do this. It's interesting to me, you know, I've been, I hit you up quite a while ago and then also you've been on my mind for a few years actually, you know, since seeing Stumped

[00:12:40] and, you know, just kind of watching your growth. And actually I feel like just in the last year, you know, since I kind of started bugging you about this, like your life kind of went fast forward in a lot of ways.

[00:12:53] Your involvement in para climbing, your involvement in media. I've been making kind of these jokes about that. But am I missing something? Was it always like that or has there been some opportunities that have arisen in the last year? Yeah, I mean, things just kind of happen.

[00:13:09] I mean, my goal is never to be a pro climber. Like I had won two world championships before I ever got my first free pair of shoes. And so... You weren't trying very hard then? No, no. I mean, well, and it was just like, you know, people...

[00:13:21] I think there's also been a change in the media, right? Like people used to really like we would be a blip. Para climbing especially would be a blip. But also climbing, climbing. Like I remember my first world championships, like Delaney Miller was there competing

[00:13:33] and we were all just footnotes in the climbing news. And I think so not only has people and the media's investment in competition climbing changed, but just climbing in general has just become so much more mainstream. And I think that's a net good.

[00:13:48] I know we all miss our empty crags and empty gyms, but at the end of the day, the more people that are out there caring about climbing and becoming passionate about it, they're the ones that are going to both drive the sport forward

[00:13:59] and protect it for future generations. But no, that was a really pre-coffee sideways rant about what I've been doing the last couple of years. Yeah, it just kind of happened. Yeah, I was I had like a full time normal job up until like 2021.

[00:14:13] And then I did I started doing that GEO speaking tour, which was super fun. Just telling my story and the story of my first Alpine expedition. And as that was winding up, you know, something else happens,

[00:14:25] which now is the outside show where I just get paid to talk, which is kind of perfect. And then, yeah, the thing with Orlando Bloom, who is my middle school crush. I just posted all over my wall. Yeah, yeah. I talked to Lindsey Hamm.

[00:14:39] She hinted about that a few months ago. She did. She saved my ass on that show a couple of times. Yeah. And these are all just things you just can't predict. And I do feel like since I never planned on being pro, it did fall in my lap.

[00:14:54] I was like, well, maybe I owe it to everybody who doesn't get these chances to just run them down. So, hey, honey, I'm going to quit my job and just see what happens. Yeah, cool. And so far people have been really supportive

[00:15:07] and people are still putting up with me. They haven't wisened up to the fact that I'm just an average rock climber who likes to talk a lot. And I'm still here. What was your job, your real job? Oh, man. So for the longest time, my first real job

[00:15:21] was like ski resort finance, which was strange. And I got there. I actually ended up getting there like through my guiding background, through using the same booking software. And I finally ended up at like Vale Corporate, like wearing khakis in Broomfield.

[00:15:35] And then from there I went to, I was like, oh, wow, the outdoor industry pay really sucks. I'm going to go work for like a true faceless corporate organization. And that was terrible. And then my last gig was working for a climbing wall builder,

[00:15:49] actually in sales and marketing. And that was just really fun because I was in a room with people who even if they weren't huge rock climbers, they were still outdoorsy and understood why I needed more than two weeks off a year

[00:16:02] and didn't worry at me when I came in Monday morning covered in bruises and scabs. And that was really cool, too, because it let me sort of really immerse myself in the climbing industry. It was Eldorado Climbing Walls in Boulder.

[00:16:15] And they were so good to me because as I was getting more crazy professionally, they were just like, take the time you need. We can change your job title. You can go part time. And finally, when Nat Geo started,

[00:16:26] I was like, guys, I am your worst employee ever. I'm like never around. I'm working like eight hours a week. You should let me sail off into the sunset. But I think it's having people like that who believed in me

[00:16:36] is kind of what pushed it forward, pushed it forward. Yeah. So describe this Nat Geo thing. You were named Adventure of the Year in, I don't know, 20 something. 20 something, yeah. It sounds like after doing Lotus Flower, going up through the circle of the Unclimables. What came of that?

[00:16:52] Yeah, they're kind of... What does it even mean to be the Adventure of the Year? You know, that's a fantastic question. When I first got the email, I thought they were going to like, fly me to New York City. I was going to get the Valor jacket.

[00:17:02] And they're like, no, no, no, that's Explorer. You're just Adventurer. A little bit of a let down. Actually, literally first you thought it was a scam email. Kind of, yeah. Yeah. They always are. It's like you've won a million dollars.

[00:17:15] It also said like, well, you're in the running for this. And I was like, you know what? I never knew I wanted this, but now that I know I could, I f***ing want it. And then when I did my interview for the article

[00:17:25] with the amazing Jamie Moy, she was like, oh, yeah, so like this will come out next week. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, isn't there still a vote or something? She's like, no, no, no, you are the Adventure of the Year.

[00:17:35] And I was just like... And totally and honestly, it's a huge honor. It's also a Subaru ad is kind of the point behind it. But it was really cool. Again, nothing I thought would ever happen to me. And then they called me later in a totally different arms.

[00:17:54] But they were just like, hey, you're in the Nat Geo family. Do you like to talk? On stage? And I was just like, yeah, I mean, like who... I actually don't mind it. Like I was a camp counselor. I'm the oldest of a bunch of kids.

[00:18:04] I was a theater kid. Like, sure. And then COVID hit and they fast tracked me. And they're just like, you know what? You don't even have to audition. We're just booking you out. I'm like, OK, this will go great. And it did.

[00:18:15] My first show was actually local, fortunately. So all my friends came. I didn't realize that Nat Geo shows, it's not like a talk show at your climbing gym where you can be like drunk and hooting, hollering. So they went out and got drunk first.

[00:18:26] Came to this nice theater. And the Nat Geo crowd are not climbers. They're like old retirees who just buy Nat Geo tickets no matter what they are. And there's my beautiful friends in the front row just screaming, like oozing alcohol. But it was great.

[00:18:38] That was a great debut. My friends are awesome. And I went to almost 30, I think about 30 cities over two years. Wow. And it was really wild. And it was really fascinating because the cities you think would be like sellout crowds, because they're an outdoorsy city.

[00:18:53] Those were like kind of the meh shows, but it was like the Kansas City, the Des Moines, like the places you would never expect. Those were where people were most engaged and interested. Maybe it's just because in Denver, they're like, oh, whatever, another rock climbing.

[00:19:05] So it was actually really cool to get to see places that are easy, I think for people like us, that are like outdoorsy mountain people, it's so easy to write off some of these places. And they're actually really cool cities with really cool people.

[00:19:16] And almost every single one had an amazing show. And it was really fun. And I think it was really cool and almost every single one had an amazing climbing gym to hang out at. So that was really cool. Yeah, that's new in my lifetime, right?

[00:19:27] To have these little climbing centers in the middle of those towns. I mean, I've noticed that with the podcast too. I mean, that's so many of the real rabid fans are from those places without climbing because they're not like jaded. Yeah. Well, and it was so cool too.

[00:19:42] Like, it kind of made me realize I could actually live anywhere as long as there's a climbing gym, because I would like, you know, in Des Moines, there's this really cool little teeny bouldering gym right downtown. I walked there from my hotel because, you know, when you're speaking,

[00:19:53] you have all day free. You don't work till night. Right. And I would just, anywhere I go, I could make friends and talk to people and train the entire time. Both years I was still competing. And so I was able to kind of try,

[00:20:04] attempt to walk that line of shit tons of travel while trying to still climb at a high level. And it made it mostly possible. Let me ask you about this expedition then, because I think we can work backwards from there a little bit.

[00:20:17] Yeah, you went up to the Lotus Florida City. Describe that ambition and how it went. Yeah, so I feel a little weird having gotten the award out of it because it wasn't my idea at all. I was the plucky second. My partner, Jim Ewing,

[00:20:31] this was his life thing. And he actually reached out to me. We hadn't met. He had lost his leg at 2014 or 15. Was ready for his comeback tour and just thought, you know, it'd be really cool to do this trip with another person with a disability.

[00:20:46] And someone gave him my name. And I was just like, yeah, I've been looking for the next thing for me. Like I've been doing sport climbing. I've been doing track climbing, but I haven't been doing like alpine, let alone expedition style. Let's do this.

[00:20:59] Let's do this next thing. And so I kind of just followed his lead and I thought I was prepared. Right. Like I had about a year to train and nothing ever actually gets you ready for that kind of stuff until you're just there.

[00:21:11] Like I was ready to poop my pants on the helicopter as we were going in. There's just nothing that makes you feel that makes you feel ready. And the weather was terrible. You know, the rock quality was terrible. You can kind of lie to yourself for these things.

[00:21:25] Like you're reading the blog posts of like trip was great but almost died nine ways. And somehow you convince yourself. Well, for us, we're going to have incredible weather. We're going to fire the lotus flower, establish new free lines on other stuff.

[00:21:37] And instead, all we did was crawl up the lotus flower. It took us two days because we were moving so slow and the weather was so heinous and the rock quality is terrible. Out of 18 pitches, maybe four or five are actually like fun climbing.

[00:21:52] And even those are actually still scary exposed like climbing on knobs over terrible gear. I love it because it's always no one ever. Everybody just talks about how splitter it is. It's not that there's one, one and a half pitches that's actually splitter.

[00:22:06] All the photos of those railroad tracks, they're shallow and flurry and full of moss. Right. So it's like I was like, do we need ball nuts? Like this is terrible. So it's just but again, like I think even what the research I was doing said that.

[00:22:20] But you just lie to yourself. You're like, no, no, no, we'll get up there. It'll be fine. Well, you know, you have to. We ended up I learned how to. You have to. Yeah, I learned how to clean aid on the fourth pitch

[00:22:33] because it was just raining so hard. We're like, wow, we need to get a fixed line up. So Jim's yelling at me from 50 feet below. Be like, OK, now clip the high piece. And as rain is just pouring into my mouth,

[00:22:42] like we made it to the top and it was ugly. And it was great. My takeaway from that trip was the idea of the process. Both of expeditions like I find it fascinating. I love the spreadsheets for the planning. I love the logistics.

[00:22:56] I love the training that leads up to that. And then I also thought that, man, if we had just showed up and freed it in a day and done all the other stuff we had thought about, it would have just been like a trip. Right.

[00:23:08] But when things go wrong, especially in the mountains, when you come through the other side, you have learned so much more. And honestly, if it had gone perfectly, I don't think I would still be doing alpine climbing. I'd be like, cool, check that box, whatever.

[00:23:20] Tried it back to sport climbing. And now I'm just like, man, the process of not knowing exactly how this huge time and cash investment's going to go. Like if you go sport climbing, you're going sport climbing. Maybe you won't send your project,

[00:23:34] but you kind of know what the day is going to look like. Whereas alpine, especially expedition, you just don't know. And that's kind of addicting to me. The idea of just like, we're just going to put ourselves out there and see what happens.

[00:23:44] This is going to sound weird, but could you, like really weird, but could you unzip your jacket just a little bit? Oh, is it rubbing? It's just hitting that. Okay. Good. Don't tell anybody the enormous capsule is like, hey, could you unzip it? Zip it off slowly.

[00:24:01] All right. So two things in there emerged in my head. And these I think are sort of personality traits. Maybe we could explore a little bit. Because we're talking about a big personality, Mo. I mean, you think that like it's just random that you've been, you know,

[00:24:18] you've turned into this professional climber. You've become the spokesperson, but it's certainly not. First thing is that whole irony of what you just said of like, well, if it had gone well, I would have moved on. But since it didn't, I love it.

[00:24:32] And really that just made me think of your origin story with climbing, which is I just read a sentence or somewhere that some counselor said like, oh, we're going rock climbing. But poor little Mo without a hand or without an arm can sit this one out.

[00:24:50] And that was like an impetus for you to go after it, which is a moment that literally has brought you to here. That was like such a pivotal moment in your life. It's hard to imagine it didn't happen.

[00:25:04] And then the other one was like you kind of telling it like it is. You know, like I said, mostly I've heard, you know, just how great Lotus Flower Tower is and how splitter it is. I don't know who you're talking to. It's a lie.

[00:25:16] Yeah. And then I mean, and I've caught, you know, I don't know if you knew this, but I did an expedition in a new route on Proboscis in the 90s. So I've been up in that area. So you know the toss, that ancient granite.

[00:25:28] I mean, yeah, there's a couple good pitches, but like to the Bivy ledge was just like scary. So, yeah. So let's explore this. Like talk about, you know, this little girl who was 12 and didn't say no and went after it.

[00:25:42] And this person that, you know, your attitudes around, you know, disability or whatever words we want to use it is someone who's like talking about it frankly. You use a lot of the words that none of us dare use, like gimp and things like that. Yeah.

[00:26:00] You know, so combine those two things. Talk about this little kid and this upbringing that, you know, that put you in this position of not saying no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, hmm. Day one. So I, so back when I was born, I'll start with my parents, right?

[00:26:18] So I was their first kid and they did not have the fancy crazy four dimensional future telling sonograms like they have now. So as far as they knew, they were having a perfectly normal kid. I think my mom told me that the doctors thought

[00:26:32] I was like sitting on my hand or something or I was just hiding it. Like it did not raise any flags. And then I popped out healthy, but like, you know, missing a hand. And I think my parents sort of, and this is no fault of theirs.

[00:26:44] I think almost as a coping mechanism with it. But it's like, you know what? Whatever. Like we're just going to raise her like we had planned, treat her like we had planned. And of course we're going to, they got me like the prosthetics and orthotics care I needed.

[00:26:58] They didn't like totally ignore me. They didn't like totally ignore it. But they were just like, we're not going to raise her any different. And unfortunately that was kind of a forced decision because back in the 80s, you couldn't just like Google

[00:27:09] a limb loss support group or like find other people like you to hang out with, especially in what was pretty much rural Maine. So my parents kind of had to onsite not only parenting because I was their first and I think every parent

[00:27:22] is onsiting parenting, but just like, what are we going to do? Like with this surprise? And yeah, they just decided, you know what? We're going to mostly again, not ignore it, but we're not going to do anything different. They did try to sort of over prepare me.

[00:27:37] So I always tell people my mom was like, you're going to learn to tie your shoes before you go to school because I don't want any kid bullying you because he can't tie your shoes. And so I practiced and practice.

[00:27:47] I probably cried because I was like four and a half, five, just frustrated. And I show up to school and everyone's wearing Velcro. And I was just like, son of a bitch. And then I also got asked a lot, like, were you ever bullied?

[00:28:01] Because, you know, kids suck. They bully. And I actually never was because I think I was always proud of my cool robot hand. You know, it was things to be jealous of. And then like day two of kindergarten, I punched Michael Fitzsimmons in the nuts on the playground

[00:28:16] with my robot hand. And that just set the tone for like the next 13 years of primary school of like, whoa, Mo has a cool robot hand and she is not afraid to use it. I don't think that's advice for kids today. I think that would be immediate suspension.

[00:28:28] But, you know, back in the early 90s, you could just punch a kid. That'd be worth it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it was that confidence. I think because my parents didn't dwell on it, they were just like, that is you.

[00:28:39] It's no different than you being born with brown hair or that your brother has freckles. It's just that is you. And you are a person to be proud of. That's kind of what started it. And I think that's what I learned. And I think because of that,

[00:28:50] I would overcorrect sometimes and I'd want to prove people wrong. And I wouldn't. I remember I was auditioning. I was trying out for the basketball team because why not? There's nothing else to do in a small town. And there was like a double,

[00:29:03] it's a double dribble to practice. And I just couldn't do it. And so I would just sit there punching the ground with my fake arm with the ball and then try and dribble here. And the coach is just like, what are you doing?

[00:29:12] I don't know, but let me, let me do this. I played soccer, but I insisted on being a basketball player. I played soccer, but I insisted on being the goalie. Things like that. I just always tried to push.

[00:29:22] And I think I kind of liked it made people uncomfortable. Like in reflection, I think I kind of liked that people were like, oh, well, I can't tell you no. So let's see what happened. Right. They can't tell the poor little girl no.

[00:29:33] Yeah. I'll say they were back then. Like, I can't tell the crippled girl what she can and can't do. Because like then there was enough awareness that like it was almost toxic. I feel like disability culture then was still a little toxic

[00:29:44] where it was just like you can do anything you say. You can do anything you set your mind to. Regardless or like there's no excuses. And that's that's actually really like toxic positivity. But it was still I think it was better to grow up then.

[00:29:56] Then and just like never heard that phrase. Oh, toxic positivity. Yeah. You know it, though, now that you've heard the phrase. I know exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. It's like too much Yas Queen. But yeah, I just kind of kept pushing. I liked proving people wrong.

[00:30:11] Why climbing stuck with me more than other proving people wrong is the same reason I think it sticks with all of us. Like, number one, it's badass. You know, when I was looking at magazines when I first started climbing, everyone was like in Lycra and looking cool.

[00:30:24] And I just thought they were like, you know, my N'Sync Backstreet Boys looked cool. But then so did the people in the climbing magazines. Like these were my idols. And it just feels badass. And I think the thing about climbing is, you know, a one-armed girl shouldn't play,

[00:30:36] shouldn't be goalie, shouldn't do all these other things. But no one should be rock climbing. Right? Like we're all fighting that primal ability and that primal brain instinct that says this isn't normal. Humans should not be up there doing those things. So maybe that was the one-two punch

[00:30:51] that made climbing really sink its claws into me. Well, let's talk about the logistics of it too. I've had, I mean, I can't remember all the damn interviews at this point. But of course, Craig DiMartino has been on, was an early like blockbuster actually.

[00:31:08] And then I think Justin Salas, he's also been in para-climbing competitions and things like that. But these are all different modes. We understand sort of like, okay, you've got a prosthetic leg. And now, you know, thanks a lot to Craig. And of course, MIT guy. Oh, Hugh. Yeah.

[00:31:29] Thanks. I interviewed him too. That was like one of the hardest interviews I ever did, by the way. I don't know if you've met the guy. I have. And I didn't realize it was him. I was just like, oh, here's a bilateral BK.

[00:31:41] And it was actually at a Paradox Sports event in North Conway. And I've been going for a couple of years. And I like gimp-splained him not realizing who he was. I was like, oh, you know what? You might like this climb called the Cathedral Slabs.

[00:31:53] Like that could be really cool. And bless his heart, he sat there. It was like, yeah, idiot. Yeah, sure. I should totally try the White Horse Slabs. And then like a day later, I was like, ah, fuck. So that's my Hugh hair story. OK, cool.

[00:32:11] Anyway, Craig and Hugh have been on. And we understand, you know, thanks to those guys, in a lot of ways, you know, you put this special rubber shoe on and there's like some problems, but it works OK. And, you know, and then Justin explained his mode.

[00:32:23] So talk about yours. Like what kind of articulation do you have? How do you use the stump climbing? Because it's a lot of work. Yeah. I mean, I'm not a climber. I'm not a climber. But I do a lot of climbing because it's, you know,

[00:32:37] it's a curiosity and also like not just the curiosity. Like, well, that's weird. But like you've you've accomplished a lot as a climber. Yeah. Cool thing about Stump Talk is if you put photos in the show notes, you can charge extra to certain parts of the world.

[00:32:55] That's actually a whole side note we won't go into today probably. So I did wear prosthetic, what's called a cosmesis. I had a myelectric for a while because doctors always want to make you normal, right? So I had...

[00:33:07] Well, first I had a hook when I was a toddler, but I would bash the shit out of all my parents' furniture. So there's like, no, yoink. And hooks, they do something. It involves a strap all around your body.

[00:33:19] And then I had an advanced hook where it was like a hand-looking thing that still... All it does is like this. Like it's a claw that opens when you stretch. And you have to wear this grotesque, painful sling around your body.

[00:33:30] And for a kid, it's like super self-conscious. And then I went to a myelectric, which through was harnessless and had sensors in the socket. As I could flex my muscles, it would just go like... Battery was constantly dying. It was heavy. That was a good punching device, though.

[00:33:46] And it was good for party tricks of like, watch me crush this pencil or something. But eventually I just moved to what's called a cosmesis, which is effectively a mannequin hand. And it doesn't do anything. Like maybe it would help me stay balanced.

[00:34:02] It didn't even help me carry things. The biggest thing it helped me with is if you're in the grocery store and someone sees two hands, even if one is like rubber and my middle finger was always broken up because of all

[00:34:12] the kids in school would just flex me. But even if it was grimy and broken, people just see two hands and they move along. But if people are passing you in the grocery store and see one hand and a short arm, they go, oh...

[00:34:27] And people can't help but stare. I cannot fault people for that. When I'm doing adaptive conference stuff, sometimes I'm like, oh wow, yeah. I think he's missing a leg. It's just human nature, right? But so I clung to this cosmesis. Especially little kids. Little kids are...

[00:34:41] Oh, I love the little kids. I used to work retail when I still wore this arm. And I just remember like, I'd be talking to the parent and the kid would just be next to me just tapping the arm.

[00:34:49] And eventually I would look down and be like, I can feel that. And they'd just go, oh, whoa. I had a lot of fun with it. But yeah, so to me, I actually developed a really unhealthy relationship with this prosthetic. I was just like, I needed it.

[00:35:06] I couldn't leave the house without it. Even though I was proud to be disabled, I still needed this thing. I would call in sick in middle school, high school if I... Because I would get home and immediately yeet it somewhere because it's uncomfortable.

[00:35:18] We spend all this technology to make the feet and the hands better and more articulate, but the actual socket hasn't changed in probably since plastic started being used. They're just sweaty, uncomfortable. It hurts sometimes.

[00:35:30] But I still needed it so bad that if I couldn't find it, I would call in sick. I would not leave the house without it. And so my first climbing experience, I wore it. It's like rock climbing and ski boots, but on your hand.

[00:35:41] It's just like thunk, thunk, and it was useless. And it took me quite a few climbing experiences before I was just like, maybe I should take this off. And then of course, I just instantly bled everywhere because the skin on my stump, it's

[00:35:55] kind of like forearm skin, so it doesn't callus. Some upper limb folks don't tape, but I find they're usually much shorter. So I think they have more elbow skin at the end of their stump and that can callus and be rough.

[00:36:08] No matter what I did, never got tough. And so I tried like some attachments. I had like a go-go gadget prosthetic where I could do like a yoga hand, a kayaking hand. And so I tried building my own attachments there. That's how I built my ice axe arm.

[00:36:21] But then one day, I don't even know how I discovered the idea of just taping it. Maybe I saw tape clubs for the first time in a magazine and thought, oh, I wonder if I could do that for my stump.

[00:36:30] And it was just this really slow trial and error. And the thing that sucks is not being comfortable and messing around with that stuff probably cost me at least 10 years of climbing.

[00:36:41] I would be like a once-a-quarter climber because I would just go because I loved it, but then not have a lot of success and just be like, okay, whatever. And those were the best years of my life too. I was young and healthy, nothing hurt.

[00:36:54] So that was just wasted time. But eventually, I got there. I was just like, tape's the way, keep it simple. I'll sweat it off, I can put it back on. There's no prosthetics to break if I'm out on a big mountain.

[00:37:07] And then eventually, I took that same principle to ice climbing and I ditched the ice climbing arm, which looked really cool but worked terrible. And I just kind of have personally, I'm over prosthetics.

[00:37:19] The only one I'm about to get is so I can ride my bike and tow my three-legged dog in her bike trailer. That's about the only prosthetic you'll see me with these days. But that's a hugely personal choice.

[00:37:29] I know people who climb in their prosthetics, who live every day in their prosthetics. But for me, it just wasn't working out. What does your ice climbing arm look like? It's like an ice axe attached to your- Yeah, it's pretty cool looking. Like superhero lifestyle?

[00:37:44] Yeah, no, it's super badass looking and it's this ancient purple Trango tool. I used to work at Eastern Mountain Sports in the guiding school and I just took this old rental tool that was mismatched.

[00:37:54] We chopped the handle off, we put a screw in it and it just screws onto the socket. It looks really cool, climbs horrifically. There's like, you're trying to flick from your elbow. You can't climb past here. If you fall, it stays. It gets super cold.

[00:38:08] And the way it stays attached, you'll never fall out of it. But it's like this giant thick kind of like arm condom that goes in and then it clicks into the socket. So to take it off and on, you're like stripping down to your tank top.

[00:38:19] And I learned how to ice climb in Vermont, New Hampshire, Quebec. It's cold there. This isn't your Ray Ice Park where it's like, oh, pleasantly 40 degrees every day. This was gnarly.

[00:38:28] And it led me to quit ice climbing until one day I just picked up two super aggressive tools and realized, oh, what if I just match and swing and match and swing and match? And I've since refined that technique and it's awesome.

[00:38:42] But it's not as cool looking as the Ice Axe Arm. I have to say, I did love the attention of the Ice Axe Arm. It was cool. So back to being a kid, you're talking about these sort of growing pains with climbing,

[00:38:59] like trying to figure out what your mode is going to be. But as far as this little tough face anything girl that grows up and becomes a high schooler and any parent can talk about the changes that especially girls go through getting into

[00:39:16] high school and stuff about their appearance, self-consciousness and stuff like that. I mean, did you weather that okay? Or are you just like, I'm still just this tough, tough kid who's forging forward like you trained yourself enough? I started to get certain ways of self-conscious about it.

[00:39:34] Like it was still who I was. I was proud of it. I mean, first, so I'll back up a bit. I will say that, you know, I'm in some of these like Facebook groups where a parent finds

[00:39:43] out their kid's going to come out like me and the parents freaking out. And I always say, look, when your kid is 16 trying to steal the car keys, like replacing your booze with water, you're not going to care they have one hand. Like they're going to trust me.

[00:39:56] They're going to be a normal asshole kid just like the rest of them. But for me, where it really started was, like I said, I did theater and I was really conscious and it was always dance theater.

[00:40:06] And I was always self-conscious of like, what if I don't get the part because I can't make my hands do the wiggle like you're supposed to or I can't do like the flick. So I was self-conscious of that. No jazz hands. No, yeah. One, just one.

[00:40:17] It was very quiet jazz. Jazz fingers. And I definitely, I didn't get my license until I was 22 because I was so afraid that the driver's ed person or the examiner would be like, well, you can't do this.

[00:40:32] And there was a part where I hated that other people would feel awkward around me, like, oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize you have one hand and they overcompensate. And that's also an icky feeling for me.

[00:40:41] And so I definitely became more self-conscious and that just led me to not do things, I think. And so I almost had to rediscover like punk ass nine year old me at a certain point. And actually I wore, I was very self-conscious about it. I wore my prosthetic.

[00:40:58] I weaned myself off of it. And it wasn't until I started that climbing wall job, like the first day of work there, I was like, you know what? This isn't me anymore. I'm going to stop wearing it to work.

[00:41:07] And that was like, I actually wrote a blog post on how I lost my arm and it was like, yeah, I was 27. My first day of work at my new job was when I finally just put it in the closet and never touched it again.

[00:41:18] You know, I'll dwell on this just a tiny bit more. What about, you know, you're talking about people being self-conscious around you or overcompensating and things like that. And what, you know, what about this idea of meeting someone, you know, someone to marry, someone to be partnered with?

[00:41:33] You know, was that like, I mean, I know that often times people with visible disabilities have these very deep concerns. And in those Facebook groups, not only, like these parents have the same questions. They're just like, you know, all that stuff. Yeah.

[00:41:46] I mean, I had a high school boyfriend. It didn't. I don't know. I don't remember if it did. If I was worried about that, I've blacked it out. Yes. But I would know is always more about like people that were strangers to me.

[00:41:58] I think once I knew somebody, I was so much more comfortable and you go through a knowing process anyway. I also cheated the system. Right. I met my now husband when I was 19. I was a freshman in college and never looked back. So what is that?

[00:42:11] What do you mean? Yeah. I never, you know, I feel so bad for like the Tinder kids today. And I don't know. I'm so grateful that I just met the right guy and wrote it out. And to this day, he it's actually really funny.

[00:42:25] So my mom once joked about like, you know, who's going to cut your meat when I'm not here? Because I would always just like be like, oh, this is stupid. You cut it for me because it's kind of hard.

[00:42:34] And she was just like, well, what are you going to do when you're like an adult or I'm not here? You're going to meet a boy and he's going to cut your meat for you. And I just tell everybody.

[00:42:41] And I did like I met my husband promptly as soon as I went to college. And I was at dinner with another one armed friend and her husband and our meals came and we both don't stop our conversation and just wordlessly hand our plates to our husbands.

[00:42:55] They both wordlessly start cutting our meat for us and then just back to us. So it's a partnership. But I know I think your question, too, though, learning how to ask for and accept help is

[00:43:06] still something that maybe all of us are always working on, regardless of abilities. My friends mostly know they have a whole joke called Don't Help Moe and like they'll just watch me struggle until I ask for help because every time they offer, I'm usually

[00:43:21] like, no, no, no, I'm fine as I'm drowning. And so learning to ask is a huge thing. But oftentimes that's because sometimes people offer to help me tie my shoes when I go through TSA, like a grown ass woman. Yeah, it's a true story.

[00:43:33] You're like, I've known how to do this. I've been doing this for 30 years. There is this, this sounds fake. I swear to God it happened. I was through TSA on one of the benches tying my shoes and this really well-meaning fellow

[00:43:45] with like his two young kids comes up and he's like, ma'am, would you like me to assist you? And I was like, first of all, I can hear fine. I speak English. And I was just like, no, I'm good. And you know, everyone's nice, right?

[00:44:00] I don't want to be like you assuming ableist a-hole because like he thought he was helping. But I think that then you end up overcompensating for being like, no, I don't need help from anybody ever.

[00:44:12] Or sometimes I have to be really humbled as a professional athlete having to turn to somebody and be like, hey, can you tighten my ice boots for me? Because when I'm under all my layers, I can't get the lace on my stump or hey, can you zip

[00:44:25] my jacket for me? Because it's too tricky. And like I have my stuff on. I can't like it is a little interesting to have to be a grown ass adult pro climber and being like, can you tie my shoes for me?

[00:44:39] But I've gotten there because it's like I just make a joke about it. I don't waste time anymore. I just stick my foot out and say thanks for the help. Yeah. I mean, you've been at this a while, right? It's your whole life.

[00:44:52] What do you think the differences are? You know, and well, let me say this. It feels like, well, not just feels like you're a role model within climbing now. Whether you like it or not. I mean, it seems to be something you've accepted, even pursued.

[00:45:08] You've lived with this your whole life. You know, like you were saying, your parents just marched forward and taught you how to tie your shoes at four and all that sort of stuff.

[00:45:17] What do you think are the differences or what people work with who are sort of recently injured, you know, resulting in losing a leg like it was a Jim Ewing's. Like Jim Ewing that you climb Lotus Flower Tower with or, you know, like you're an old

[00:45:33] veteran so to speak as far as dealing. What are your sort of what do you face with sort of counseling if not just being a friend to those people? Oh, I'm terrible at it because I don't have well, not terrible, but like when I see someone

[00:45:47] wallowing, I'm just like, hey, suck it up. You're wallowing about my life, not my life, but I'm just like sometimes I have a disconnect. I'm just like, it's not that bad.

[00:45:58] And it took me a while to remember like, oh, but I also didn't have like I have we all have our own traumas, right? But I didn't have to deal with losing something. I never had to relearn anything.

[00:46:06] I had to learn differently, but I never had to like my life was never paused. And when people have accidents or traumas this severe, your life does hit a pause. I sometimes am attracted to friendships with people like Jim, who's like a tough snot of

[00:46:21] a New Englander, you know, old salty dude. And he was just like, yep, chop it off. It's not going to heal. Let's get going. You know, stubborn. Maybe that's why we get along.

[00:46:31] But I've had to learn how to sort of have patience with people who are working through the process because I never had to do that myself. And sometimes maybe it's good for someone to see like, oh, wow, here's someone just who's like never known anything different.

[00:46:44] And they're doing a certain version of fine and I'll get there eventually. Or maybe some people are just like, F this girl. She doesn't know what I'm going through. Like my life has changed. And both reactions are totally valid for sure.

[00:46:59] Well in Stumped, you were quoted or you're on screen saying how you how you want to be seen as a as just a climber versus like the good girl climber, a good woman climber, good one handed climber.

[00:47:13] And I've been thinking about that a lot actually because it's you know, it's in the trailer too. It's like it's pretty prominent of the theme of the whole thing. And I've been thinking about your position in the last few years and becoming this sort of spokesperson.

[00:47:25] And it's sort of I feel like this kind of paradoxical thing has happened and you can you know, this is the pop psychology part of the Enormous Cast where I get shot down or agreed with doesn't matter.

[00:47:39] Like while you've become this very much this sort of poster child, you know, for for climbing with a disability for promoting para climbing. It's weird because at the same time, I feel like you've become such a fabric of just climbing that both things have happened in that.

[00:47:56] I mean, I watch things with you and I don't forget, you know, that you have one arm or whatever missing a hand. But I also just like I sort of relate to you in a whole different way as a climber. Like I think, oh, well, there she is.

[00:48:13] Like it just like I might see at the cliff and be like, hey, what's up, Moe or whatever. Not that I know you very well, but that kind of feeling. Do you sort of agree with that assessment?

[00:48:22] I feel like you've just really become just a climber and at the same time a prominent para climber. Yeah, I mean, that's that's good to hear. I think that means I'm doing it right. Yeah.

[00:48:35] I mean, the interesting thing about the theme of the movie is I guess I've always felt like just like I had to learn to tie my shoes early. It's almost or maybe it's a common thing among like minority groups where you have to overachieve to feel accepted.

[00:48:48] Like if you're if you're not if you're in like the normal group, then you can just kind of be average and fit in. But maybe I feel like I had to prove myself to be like, no, I can belay safely. No, I can lead climb.

[00:49:00] And not only can I climb, but I can climb well. And who knows? Maybe 512 for me is actually a 514. Maybe actually maybe it is a one arm 514. I don't know. But I was just like, man, wait.

[00:49:12] Ask some 514 climber to do it with one arm or take their hand and do a little like fist or whatever. And it's just like and especially when it comes to grades, everyone loves to say these days, oh, grades don't matter. But then, of course, they do.

[00:49:26] And it's just like for me, it was a definitive lie in the sand to be like, I have earned my spot in climbing. And had I never climbed it, I'd still belong. Right.

[00:49:36] Like but for me, it was more of an inside thing to be like, no, this is this is legit. And it's kind of funny because that climb has since been downgraded to 11D in the latest guidebook. Thank you, Jason and Chris.

[00:49:53] But I think I've always had this sort of identity struggle where it's just like, I don't want to be your inspiration. But if you actually appreciate what I did for the process, not just because I exist

[00:50:03] as someone with one hand, but if you appreciate what I'm doing with it, just like you would appreciate someone with two hands doing something, putting in the work, then that's fine. Or if someone else with a disability is like, hey, you inspired me to do this because I

[00:50:15] feel like we spent so much time and stumped being like, yo, inspiration sucks. We're not here to be inspiring. But I've kind of softened on that a little bit because I think there are ways.

[00:50:24] Yeah, I think there are ways that it's cool if someone's inspired the dreaded I word. But it's more about like making it mean something like don't make it this empty. Thank you for your service kind of thing. Like poke on why.

[00:50:36] And I think people who reach out to me or send me emails, I hesitate to call them fans because that's weird. But I sometimes they're like, hey, you're so inspiring. Wink wink.

[00:50:46] But no, really, I think it was cool how you fell off that thing a thousand times and still went back. Or I think it's cool how you bit off more you can chew on that alpine expedition and you're still doing more.

[00:50:56] Or I think it's cool that you're using whatever clout you have to create space for other para climbers to sort of be better than you and put you out of a job. So I mean, stumped was a while ago. That was 2017.

[00:51:09] And since then, I've just I've also thought, you know, I'm working towards a world where we don't have to have para climbing specific clinics or festivals. I used to be like, we're just normal climbers.

[00:51:20] And now that we've had four years of Adaptive Climbers Fest, I'm like, that's not true at all. And I think that's true for any affinity group, whether it's queer, BIPOC women's. On one hand, you dream of not needing them anymore because that means the world's awesome.

[00:51:32] But you just can't replace being in a room where people have had a shared experience. And even if the world is great and everybody gets along, it's still just like, hey, we have something in common that no one else can relate to. Let's go rock climbing.

[00:51:46] So I've even softened on that. Like we'll never just be average normal climbers. I would love to see everybody integrated, but then we'll still need our spaces to sort of just be us without having to dwell on why we're who we are.

[00:51:58] It seems to come through a lot this again, this sort of paradox of, you know, yeah, wanting to be just another climber, but also, you know, what you just said, like admitting or not. I'll say that just to get things fair.

[00:52:13] I think, OK, yeah, maybe, you know, the whole inspiration is a bad word thing. Maybe I also just felt a little edgy and hip and cool and like, you know, click baity. But I think I did believe it when I said it.

[00:52:25] And now just the more time I've spent even deeper in the community, I kind of get it now. Yeah, well, the thing is, is that the thing is, is Mo, that I think that it goes beyond just para climbing.

[00:52:38] I mean, you become someone who all climbers sort of look up to and whether you like it or not. And I feel like there's a lot of that going on here that's, you know, you're this super

[00:52:49] strong, you know, go forward, push your way through, you know, these barriers that people put up for you. But at the same time, you kind of sometimes like to roll it back to like, well, I'm just

[00:53:00] I'm just a normal person or I'm nobody special, which is, you know, like that's everybody's attitude. But but I think you are someone special. I mean, you've gone past the like just wanting to be a climber to being an activist and a

[00:53:15] leader, whether you think it's just your selfish intention to become a, you know, quit your job or what. I mean, do you think about that at all? You both want to be normal, but you put yourself in this position.

[00:53:28] Well, I think it's again, I think it's again more of a pay it forward. I think, you know, because of other people's support and all this other stuff, it's like I have the absolute privilege to I don't want to say climb full time.

[00:53:38] So I don't know if other pro climbers have told you that once you're a full time pro, oftentimes I find like I'm actually climbing less sometimes, but a full time it's a privilege to be able to do this. But I also think it's not altruism, right?

[00:53:52] Because I'm in the community that I'm pushing forward for, like for para climbing. The more successful para climbing and para climbers are, the more opportunities I will also have and the more friends I will make. We all need more friends. And so it's not pure altruism.

[00:54:06] Like the more this is something, you know, I'm not trying to save the whales, right? Like this is this is promoting something I'm a part of. But I think that in the end also makes it more rewarding.

[00:54:16] Like it's just so cool now that it's never and I've had such a small part in this, but it's never been easier as a person with a disability to try rock climbing for the first time. It's ridiculous how relatively easy it is.

[00:54:31] But to me, I'm like, well, that's not good enough. Like I don't want a bunch of intro climbers around. I want to make sure there's opportunities for other people to turn into the me's or the Ronnie Dixon's or the Craig D. Martino's.

[00:54:41] So now my crew and I are focusing on this like advanced part. Like cool, you've done your intros. You've done some like crag and classic adaptive clinics. You've done some weekend long stuff with Paradox Sports.

[00:54:51] But like what if you want to cross the line from going climbing to being a climber? So that's the stuff that we're working on now in our community. What does that look like? That's a great question. I have a spreadsheet. I have a document open right now.

[00:55:08] It's kind of blank brainstorming. No. So it started with Adaptive Climbers Festival, which came out of competitions were blowing up and we would see the same people over and over. And it's just that man, the power of not being the only person in the gym with a disability

[00:55:24] is huge. And we just loved each other. And like in climbing competitions too, it's like I know the normies, we call the able buddies normies, boring normies usually. They're all nice. They're all, you know, nice slash frenemies and like they all love competition and say

[00:55:40] the community is special. But when para climbers compete, when we're back in ISO, we're also talking about like, When did you learn how to do your hair? Like, how do you braid it with one hand or how do you like it's just bigger than just

[00:55:51] climbing because I would never have been in a room with like nine other women without a hand if it weren't for these para climbing competitions. And that's something you don't see on the normal side. And we loved each other.

[00:56:04] But then we realized, man, the only time we get to hang out is at competition where it's stressful. Maybe we spent a ton of money to fly to some place in the world we don't really care about and compete on plastic.

[00:56:14] What if we just climbed together in a somewhat facilitated space? And that's where ACF was born, was like, let's just pick a date on the calendar. Say hey, we have a bunch of campsites reserved. Like no one's running this thing. Let's just show up and climb together.

[00:56:30] And it was I was in the hot tub when that idea was first gelled. We went to we did a small trip after Bouldering Nationals were in Salt Lake to St. George and we're just like drunk in a hot tub saying we should do this for real.

[00:56:43] And other people sobered up and did it. I just showed up. And it was 30 people that first year. And then last year we had almost 300 people in the Red River Gorge. And what makes it unique is it's a combination of the structure of a cragging classic where

[00:57:01] if you want to go climbing with your friends, go climb with your friends. If you want to take a clinic, take a clinic. But then it's the spice of like horseshoe hell where it's weird and it's funky and there's costumes and people are behaving oddly in this space.

[00:57:14] And we feed everybody. So it's a four day festival in the Red. Includes all the gear, all the camping, all the food. And we charge people $35 for that. And in those in that space we have a learn to lead clinics.

[00:57:28] We have you know first, wilderness first aid clinics because a lot of the current opportunities for adaptive climbers to go outside. It's still very safe. It's still very coddled. It's still like hyper facilitated. And that's actually what turned me off from doing disabled sports as a kid.

[00:57:46] I went to one like kid crip camp, nine or ten. I don't know. And it just sucked. It was full of old ladies being like, oh you can do anything. Like total saviorism. It was very padded.

[00:57:59] And I was like if this is what being disabled is, I'm not disabled. Like this sucks. This is boring. And so I wanted to create a space in climbing where the rest of us learned how to climb. Right? You just tie in and figure it out.

[00:58:11] So I wanted to provide a supported version of that. And it's been fantastic. That's the growth. That's what we're seeing is now the community is shifting from having to go to these competitions

[00:58:23] to like, or you can come and learn how to like, we had an intro to rappelling. We had a trad, we had an aid clinic. Like we're really trying to create climbers. There's a whole state of like, we're not just going to tie your knot for you.

[00:58:36] We're going to teach you how to tie your knot. It's that. But over the course of four days, surrounded by other people like you. Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, who are we looking at that's coming out of this beginner to, you know, are there

[00:58:49] other people like you out there that are like becoming, I mean, positions of sort of notoriety for their climbing? Yeah, I hope so. Who should we be looking at? I hope so. We're actually launching this year a bootcamp pre-festival to take about eight people out

[00:59:04] and be like, no, really, this is how you take people outside. And this is like, just more detail, like, oh, here's like 18 different ways to use a stick clip and like, or just climbing together.

[00:59:15] Because, you know, like Ronnie Dixon and I and a couple others started not being able to climb during the festival ourselves because people would just kind of want to tag along because they just needed more help and support.

[00:59:26] And we're like, wow, man, we need to really start thinking of the next generation because we're not getting any younger. And not only do we need to provide opportunities for the next generation to step up and learn,

[00:59:36] but then we need to step out and think about like who is going to take our place. And it's for sure happening, like on the competition world, there's some brilliant new younger climbers who are fired up.

[00:59:48] And it's not enough, I think, in this world to just climb anymore. Like these people want to be on the committees for USA Climbing. They want to like help plan the competitions. They want to plan retreats.

[00:59:57] They want to run their own adaptive climbers fest, but on the West Coast. So I am seeing these people be like, no, I want in. I don't just want to rock climb hard or do stuff. I want in on the community. And that's been really cool to see.

[01:00:09] Well, you know, again, once again, you're a big part of like that pathway. And we talk about representation when we, you know, when we talk about any sort of minority group that's wanting to be a part of something that traditionally they're not. And you're that person.

[01:00:26] They look at what you've done and what you're doing and, you know, whatever. Let's not say it's inspiration. It's just a roadmap. I totally respect that too. I was someone who was stubborn enough to like not need the representation. I was just like, I want to do it.

[01:00:41] I'm going to do it as ugly as it is. And I did have a minute where I was just like, why are you waiting? Like, just go do it. And I don't know if it was like the support I had, the background I had, the mindset.

[01:00:53] But now I totally understand why like, oh, no, I need to see that's possible for me. Because maybe I didn't realize that I had it harder because I was the first because to me it was just normal.

[01:01:05] But I mean, down to basic things like taking a belay test at a gym, I certainly had to fight my way through a bunch of them to be like, no, I am a safe belayer. I'm following your rules, even though I have one hand. And now it's not.

[01:01:18] Do you know anything about my past on the podcast with belay testing? No, I bet it's good. No, yeah, no. We've riffed on gym belay tests for a long time on the show. So that's just like a small example of like, I was OK having the awkward conversations

[01:01:40] and sometimes fighting some poor high school kid who... Right. Politely fighting, politely fighting. I know it's not you. I know it's the lawyers. I know you're not actually a climber, so you have no way to like extrapolate here. There's a lack of critical climbing thinking, but that's fine.

[01:01:59] We love you. To now, it's just less of a big deal, I think, because enough of us were out there kind of fighting the system. And now, you know, you see huge gym chains having separate adaptive policies to make sure

[01:02:10] everybody knows even though this person doesn't fit the lawyer's box that it can still happen. Well, let's talk a little bit about your climbing just in general. What are you into? Like I've seen a few things online and then, of course, again, back to stump, which is

[01:02:25] rather old. The thing that I mean, the thing that was really cool about that, though, that route and what you were trying to do is that on this route, you're taking big whippers, you

[01:02:34] know, and we've got this whole cottage industry around like teaching people how to fall actually and not be afraid. So I mean, again, back to being a climber versus an adaptive climber. That's something that everybody struggles with and that you seem to at least in that

[01:02:51] instance not have too much trouble with. What kind of climbing do you like? Are you a good crack climber? It seems like that could be something that would sort of work if you find the right size and things like that.

[01:03:01] Yeah, I would emphasize in that instance, I'm actually a huge weenie when it comes to leading because I've been on like five eights where I'm like, oh, it's five eight climbing, climbing pretty far above the bowl. And then the next clip is like far left.

[01:03:15] And I'm like, well, shit, like it's easy terrain, but I can't make that clip. So what the hell? Right. And I. Yeah, but that's just dangerous. Yeah. And it's interesting. That's just recognizing that you're in a position that is possibly dangerous.

[01:03:28] Cedar and I actually had a huge fight about this while we were filming Stumped because he was like, just tie in and go like anybody can fall. And I'm like, yeah, but I feel like my instances of where I might fall are way different than anybody else's.

[01:03:40] And like whoever the developer was isn't thinking like, well, I should make sure that this bowl is accessible to keep a one arm missing left hand climber person safe. Right. So I do tend to be a wimpy lead climber.

[01:03:53] I'll often preview around on top rope if I'm thinking about wanting to lead it. But the problem with top roping first is any of us on any route of any grade, I feel like there's always one move. And then you're like, thank God I'm on top rope.

[01:04:04] So it kind of sucks you in. But it is something I'm trying to work on is especially like I spend a lot of time in the red and I'm like, OK, let's take big whips and I'll be fine.

[01:04:14] But like, yeah, the climb in Stumped was just like very rehearsed. I took that fall over and over and it got bigger and bigger. And I was like, OK, I'm not dying. And so really, the film is just Mo's whipper therapy is what it was.

[01:04:28] Well, Hazel Finlay would approve. Yeah, I still need to take her. I swear I'm such a weenie. But yeah, and so I still I still in the cracks, I mean, it's interesting because it's very size dependent. And that's true for everybody. Right.

[01:04:43] Like my partner who has big meat hook hands hates small cracks. My range of happiness, though, is just a lot narrower because I can't lay back with my stump. I can't if I can't literally can't fit it in.

[01:04:54] So like, you know, Indian Creek can be the best or worst place for me. My stump is like a point seven five to two is probably the comfort zone. Any smaller than that's probably no go.

[01:05:04] Any bigger than that, I just like get my arm deeper, deeper and in. So if it's like threes all of a sudden, I'm just like shuffling like I can't actually climb smoothly. So I can go as big. It just becomes wildly uncomfortable, which again, that's true for everybody.

[01:05:18] What do you love, though? What do I love? I mean, good crack feels good. I mean, ice climbing seems like you're into that. You know, I actually kind of hate ice climbing, but like in a in a in a way where it's like it's fine.

[01:05:31] I feel like maybe this is the season I say this every winter. This is the season I'm going to ice climb three days a week and really feel good about it and really push my ice leading and feel comfortable. And I just always keep punting it a year.

[01:05:44] But crack climbing is interesting, too, though. I recently was at an event and this like older legend of climbing came up to me. There might have been whiskey involved, but I just don't think they knew who I was or that I was a climber.

[01:05:57] And they just started explaining like I call it able explaining. They were just like, if you let me build you a prosthetic, you could crack climb. And I was like, well, actually, I already crack climb. I've been climbing for twenty five years.

[01:06:06] And they're like, yeah, but but I could make it better. And so there's a lot of that sometimes where someone's just like, let me prescribe something to you, even though I'm like, no, I'm good. Like I've tried it already.

[01:06:16] You know, people love trying to design something to make climbing better. And again, to go back to my prosthetic journey, like I'm like, I got it. I've done the experimentation now and now I'm just trying to get better with the techniques that I that I know.

[01:06:30] And so crack climbing will just stay the way it is for me. I'm not going to start strapping on thin chip attachments or Fifi hook prosthetics or something. What about has anyone ever suggested dipping your stump in molten sticky rubber?

[01:06:46] Not dipping straight into the molten, but for sure. Like my buddies at Rock and Resell, they're just like, please let us make you a rubber sleeve. And I think crack climbing would actually be the only time it'd be useful because I can't

[01:06:58] tape past my elbow because then I can't bend it. And so like, you know, a desert trip, I'm just raw meat from like tape line up to here. And I'm like, OK, maybe I should finally get that going. I do love I love tent sleep style climbing.

[01:07:11] Anything super overhanging for me tends to be rough because I can't straight arm my way through it. Like everyone's like, oh, the red so soft. You just climb steep drugs. I'm like, yeah, but for me, I'm like always locked off.

[01:07:21] So tent sleep style, I really like because it's just vertical edges and pockets. And a lot of the pockets are shaped in a way where even if I can't get my stump in, I can still push on down on like a lip of it.

[01:07:34] I break a lot of rocks because I'll shove my stump up in places that no one else uses. And blayers beware. That said, I still love the red because it's so featured. I can kind of create my own beta.

[01:07:45] I can use my feet and heel hook and knee bar and do other funky things. Honestly, the climbing around the front range is probably maybe the least amenable to me because it's kind of very prescriptive in how you have to move through.

[01:07:57] Granite can be tricky because it's like a lot of the time it could be a really good sloper, but my stump will just slide off. You know, I probably owe a rifle a revisit.

[01:08:06] I haven't been since back in like twenty eighteen and I thought it was just stupid and hard, but I've gotten better since then. So I probably owe it another visit. Yeah, perhaps. Everyone thinks it's stupid and hard. Yeah. And it was tricky because it is.

[01:08:20] And like my project grades were like the local warm up. So everything was also just black rubber on all the holds. So hopefully this summer I'll come back up. That hasn't changed. Everyone's project is still covered in rubber. It hasn't changed that. It's just more so. And yeah.

[01:08:38] But yeah, then I also just love I just love God, I love I really think I'm moving in the direction of just like five ten and under alpine. Like I want to I hate people enough. I'd rather hike 12 miles and climb beautiful alpine splitters in the terrain.

[01:08:53] Pretty much the only thing I don't do is boulder. But even that, like I was just in Joe's for the first time last weekend. I'm like, oh, there's actually boulders here that again have features that I can use like Rocky Mountain National Park.

[01:09:06] Terrible for me. My stump just can't do anything. But that more sandstone. I did it. I did a font trim once. That was cool. A lot of people ask me what my style is. And I just I don't know until I try it.

[01:09:19] And it's not prescriptive, like selfie sandstones different than red rock sandstone and like how the hold forms. And so sometimes I love steep. Sometimes I hate steep. Sometimes it's awesome. Sometimes it's not. And again, it's like the crack size, right? It's true for all of us.

[01:09:34] But for me, it's just true in a bigger way. So becoming sort of a public figure involves, you know, posting online and, you know, just being a face out there. And one thing you mentioned earlier, and I thought I read it somewhere, too, was this

[01:09:48] idea of of feeling like you were very much the only person trying to do this back when you were you were younger and not having an awareness of any sort of community, especially within climbing. I riff often on the evils of social media, which are wide and large.

[01:10:05] However, it feels like the idea of Facebook groups, the idea of social media has really benefited this community greatly in just simply opening that isolation. I think that I think that people often feel, I mean, you know, if you if you're in a

[01:10:22] wheelchair and you go to a smaller American high school, you could be the only person there with those issues or all that sort of thing. So tell me a little bit about that, like opening the world the way that in this case, social media has provided.

[01:10:37] Yeah, I mean, I can I can start with like, of course, social media sucks and it's so sucking and it's all a lie and all that stuff. But I do. Yeah, done. In the disability community, especially outside of climbing as well, social media and

[01:10:52] the Internet at large has allowed people who like maybe don't have access to leaving their house as much or it's hard to leave their house to become a part of a community. And that's huge. I think that and again, not just climbing, just disability community

[01:11:07] in general, like the Internet has changed lives for the better. And then as far as our community goes, the networking of hey, how do you climb? Hey, how do you do this? Hey, how do what shoes do you wear on your prosthetic foot or which prosthetic climbing

[01:11:24] foot do you use? That's just it can't be replaced. Like if the Internet were to turn off tomorrow, this would all fizzle out probably. And I think it's good. And I think for me, it is inspiring to see like what Celene used to win comps and Celene

[01:11:39] showed up and has kicked my ass for the last six years. It's inspiring to see her push the grades and boundaries. And I'm like, well, shoot, she can do it. I can do it, too, because for us there are limits in our office, have limits in our head.

[01:11:53] But like we're still at this new cutting edge of our own climbing that we don't know what is possible yet for a disabled climber. Sure, Andra is pushing like the C to the D at some crazy high grade, but our community

[01:12:06] is still seeing improvements in like the whole numbers at times. And that just wouldn't happen if it weren't for Instagram and Facebook. Honestly, my least favorite parts about social media is the fact that the professional

[01:12:20] climber side, I'm sure you've had pro climbers on here being like, man, I feel like I always have to be doing something cool because we all only see snapshots of other people's cool

[01:12:30] stuff. And you forget that that's like their one trip of the year or one of two trips of the year. You're seeing the highlights of everybody's life all at once switched together.

[01:12:38] So it makes you feel like, wow, today I'm in my sweatpants at my house and I'm a terrible pro climber. So the pro climber side is where I don't like social media as much.

[01:12:47] And I just kind of decided to not play like I'll help my sponsors out, post where I have to. But odds are I'm posting photos of like my dog's butt looking really cute or

[01:12:59] or things about like my farm life or posting about climbing things that I really care about, which is often not sending. But yeah, the networking that happens and the connections that are made and the number of

[01:13:10] people who have jumped into my DM saying like, hey, my girlfriend, like I just made my new best friend because her boyfriend reached out and said, my girlfriend doesn't have social media, but she can't use her left hand as well.

[01:13:20] Do you have any advice? Like could she compete? And I've since met them and she's one of my favorite humans. And that wouldn't happen without putting silly photos of yourself out there on the Internet. Yeah, I mean, all these professional opportunities have come up like I've been

[01:13:33] talking about. It's been sort of accelerated in the last few years and they build on each other because you you you get one and then that puts your face in front of the right person to do another.

[01:13:43] So tell me like this one that you seem kind of giggling about is Orlando Bloom and his project. So I haven't seen it. It's some sort of like Orlando Boom goes adventuring kind of program. Legolas. Orlando Bloom to the edge now on Peacock.

[01:14:01] OK, cool. So what was your part in that? And I I talked to Lindsey Hamm just personally as well, but I think she might have mentioned something on her episode, but she couldn't really talk about it. But it had something to do with Orlando Bloom's poop, actually.

[01:14:15] Oh, yeah. Anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Lindsey. Lindsey for sure was banking on paying her rent by selling a wag bag of elvish poop. That was her. That was her plan. Yeah. I mean, another thing that you just get an email and you're like, nah, this isn't real.

[01:14:30] And it was just like, you know, that was like, hello, we are casting for a new show in which Orlando Bloom tries adventure sports to find himself. And it just kind of happened. It turns out they actually reached out to Honnold first, but they couldn't afford him.

[01:14:44] So but you know what? I'll be I'll be a budget Honnold all day long. You're literally like the Honnold of your part of climbing. So yeah, and it was there just like, do you want to spend two weeks with Orlando Bloom,

[01:14:58] teach him how to rock climb and finish on this like a crazy like a finish on a penultimate climb? And I was just like, this sounds weird. Let's do it. And they actually asked me at one point, they're like, so did you have a

[01:15:09] crush on Orlando Bloom when you were a kid? I was like, yeah, I had locker photos of like Alyssa in my locker. So I was a little nervous going into it. And it turns out he's kind of just a normal dude now, as normal as Hollywood can be.

[01:15:23] Right. Right. Right. Yeah. But it was cool. He actually had like no climbing experience, which I don't understand how you're someone who does action movies and extreme this. He had never even rappelled before. And so it's really fun. It's called CGI.

[01:15:37] I guess. Well, I was just like, weren't you in Black Hawk Down where they had to rappel out of helicopters? He was like, yeah, mine was the character who effed it up and fell out and got hurt.

[01:15:45] And I was like, that's right. It's been a while since I've seen that movie. He was in Black Hawk Down. He was. Yeah. Holy crap. Yeah. Yeah. It was really interesting. And and it was really cool because they leaned heavily on myself and Lindsey and the other

[01:16:01] guide team to like come up with sort of a curriculum to not only teach him how to rock climb, but do it in a way that he won't kill me was kind of the crux because I'm not I'm not a guide. Right.

[01:16:12] I don't I instruct now and then, but I'm not a guide. I'm not used to that feeling of, wow, I just taught this person how to belay. And now I'm 400 feet off the deck hoping they have me.

[01:16:21] And so that was really that was intense and scary because everyone has a different learning style. And I could not figure his out. I just could not figure. And the other guides, too, were just like, man, he's so busy and there's so much going on

[01:16:36] in his brain that it was a little nerve wracking. But it was also cool to see someone just go from total beginner. Like, I'd rather climb with a beginner almost any day over someone who's just old and jaded about climbing.

[01:16:50] It's just cool to see the light bulbs go off and see someone really push themselves. And it's and yeah. And day two, he shit in a wag bag on a bibble on a ledge like got halfway up and his

[01:17:02] high fiber, high protein special training diet for his next film just hit him. And he he did it. Fortunately, next to Lindsay, I was already up on the next pitch. And oh, my God, I can only imagine she had like running.

[01:17:20] Very just we had we had radios and she was just like, oh, we got an elf dropping elf dropping. And and, you know, he put it in his backpack and like and so this was on olive oil in Vegas, which is just one of the world's best climbs.

[01:17:36] It's so fun. And the whole time I'm just like, man, if I could tell 15 year old me that I am next to Orlando Bloom smelling his wag bag for hours on end, that's a life I wouldn't have pictured for myself.

[01:17:54] And it might have been gendered a strange fetish. Yeah, yeah. It's probably better it didn't happen then. And just like what a what a world. And it was really fun. And it was it was a huge production and just logistics were crazy.

[01:18:07] And it was really funny because they were very worried about us killing him. But the other two sports he did for the series were wingsuiting out of a plane and free diving. And they're so concerned about climbing. And I'm just like, y'all threw him out of a plane.

[01:18:21] Like, we're fine. Like, he's going to be fine. But it was cool. I did. You know, that show led me to do ancient art for the first time.

[01:18:29] I did it the day before we shot it and then I led him up it and cruxed out and was so afraid of the situation that I was I was I pulled through the boat ladder like I think everyone does. No one actually frees ancient art.

[01:18:44] And I was in such a panic. I clipped a cam in instead of a draw. And I was like, whatever. It's here. I'm scared. I don't know if he actually has me on belay. So I'm just pulling on cams through the boat ladder.

[01:18:54] And that did make the edit. There is there is now on national television me yarding on cams clipped into bolts. So that's that's a special thing. But it's probably a better grip to be honest with you. Just pulling on him. Yeah.

[01:19:08] I mean, did he turn like because I was curious about like what kind of level of risk they allowed him to take. But it sounds like it was pretty deep because most of the time, I mean, you know, it's

[01:19:18] even contractual that you can't, you know, take risks because you're worth too much money. I mean, he was he was he was on top rope for sure. They weren't. So that's fine. Right. Like, yeah.

[01:19:30] And there was a point and this I think did make the show where he we were doing like that easy looking glass arch outside of Moab to practice rappelling. And we're just like the five forest labs. And I said, OK, off belay and I'm pulling the rope up.

[01:19:42] And he just unclipped himself from the anchor and was just standing there, like totally not on anything with like 30 meters of rope out. And he was just like, oh, I probably shouldn't do this and clipped back in. But, you know, that was that was real for sure.

[01:19:57] Jesus. That's like every guy's nightmare. He comes up like that. He comes up to me. He's like, so I think I did something I shouldn't have done. And by the end of it, I was like, yeah, you for sure did should not have done that.

[01:20:08] Absolutely. But it worked out. It was cool because I used to say that as a guy. I was like, you're in pretty much in control of them. I said short of them untying themselves or unclipping themselves.

[01:20:20] And even that you usually have these overlaps to make sure that that doesn't really. Yeah. And yeah. So there you go. And like there's so many people on that wall. He really picked the time that there was no one next to him. Like there wasn't a camera guy.

[01:20:33] And the cool thing about projects like this is I'm able to hire my friends. I'm like, oh, for on the wall camera, we should hire these guys. And it's not only are they good at what they do, but then I have people around that I can

[01:20:41] trust, which is the way to do it. But yeah, it was really it was a really wild experience. But then I think the show actually did a pretty good job of being real. It's of course dramatic. Right.

[01:20:54] But, you know, I was kind of dreading like what is two weeks. First of all, I had a hot mic on me for two weeks and I know I said some stuff that I probably shouldn't have said that I'm like, cool, let's hope that stays off national

[01:21:04] television. And I think it actually came out well. And I think it does show climbing in a pretty good light, even if it's dramatic. And I think you should be proud of what he did.

[01:21:15] I do think he wouldn't have crossed that final boardwalk and climbed to the top of ancient art if there weren't cameras. He was legit scared. He peed like four times to stall. That was another thing. I'm like crammed next to this dude while he's peeing.

[01:21:26] I'm like, yeah, 15, probably next to Orlando Bloom as he's holding his wiener. Like what a life. You got Orlando on speed dial now. You guys chat a lot. I am. Yeah, we'll see what season two holds. Maybe we'll go ice climbing. Do something actually dangerous later.

[01:21:43] But yeah, it was cool. You know, he FaceTimed Katy Perry from the summit. So that's that was a thing. It was it was weird and it is cool. And I think they actually did a good job, too, where it's like how you said sometimes

[01:21:55] you forget that I have a disability. I think the show didn't harp on it. They're just like, here's our expert. She happens to have one hand and it was really cool. I basically just want an excuse to talk about wag bags and Orlando Bloom.

[01:22:05] Where is it? Peacock, which no one is subscribed to. But yeah, it's my brother watched it. He was like, you just I just watched you bullying Orlando Bloom for an hour. And I was like, did I?

[01:22:19] And they're like, yeah, I guess production liked the climbing episode the best because it was beautiful, right? We were at Red Rocks and Moab. Like, you can't make that look ugly. But then the other two sports, they were like, sure, whatever you want to do goes.

[01:22:34] And I was just like, tie in and let's go. Like, don't fuck this up. So, yeah, I guess maybe I did bully him a little bit, but it worked out. They picked the right person. Yeah. Aggressive friendship, we'll call it.

[01:22:47] So what is your next climbing day look like? What do you got on the books? Like, what is what does it look like for you? I know you said you don't climb as much now that you have to do stuff like this, frankly.

[01:23:00] But yeah, what does it look like? I'm trying. So my new job hosting the outside show means I have to be in Boulder a whopping two days a week. Tough schedule, man. But I actually enjoy that. It locks me down.

[01:23:12] So before I started that gig, if I was home for a week, I'd be like, I don't have to be home. I don't have a real job. Let's go to Ten Sleep. Let's go to Vegas.

[01:23:20] And so I actually appreciate being grounded because I haven't climbed at home much in like three or four years. It's just been gone, gone, gone. And if I am home, I want to still go with my dogs and do laundry, not go up to the flat

[01:23:32] irons. But now it's kind of forcing me to be home a bit more. And I'm stoked. I have some open projects in the flat irons that really hoping to finish to prove that I'm not just a downgraded 11D climber. Curses.

[01:23:48] And so I have those I want to do. So I'm trying to and I'm done with comps. My last I'm doing some fun comps still, but this past March was my last nationals. I won 10 in a row. I'm out and. So I'm done.

[01:24:02] I want it by a plus, which I think is the most poetic way to retire with my ego intact while signaling to the next gen there. They're up. What does that mean? Wait. Oh, there's this like a philosophy among my friends who have also retired of do you

[01:24:17] want to retire on top or do you want to get beat to pass the torch? Right. Like the next gen, they want to beat you. Right. They don't want you to just like disappear and they win by default. And so I had the best of both worlds.

[01:24:32] I won, but only by a plus point. Like it could not be any tighter. So. Right. I yeah, I got my 10th gold. But Ellie now knows the balls in her court and Isabel. So now I can actually focus back on outdoor climbing while I'm home.

[01:24:45] That said, July, I have three weeks in the Bugaboos coming up. Hope to do a winds trip in August. All of this gearing up to hopefully a trip in Patagonia. All adaptive team.

[01:24:56] I think we have two like two like amputees, myself and a blind woman are this team heading to Patagonia next spring. And then the world's the oyster. Yeah. Does that make you nervous? No, not at all. No. If anything, I've done something.

[01:25:10] Not the group. I'm saying the place. No, I don't get that kind of nervous anymore because the more Alpine stuff or the more trips I do, I realize that you just show up and what happens happens like it's almost the anti anxiety.

[01:25:26] My friends who are going, they're super nervous. But I'm like, guys, it'll work out. We're going to go rock climbing. Maybe we won't. Maybe we're just going to be storm bound the whole time. And that's fine to bring your Kindle, get some great reading done.

[01:25:39] The more I get to stretch that sort of fear muscle, the more I just like take it. I like that they're nervous because that was me for the Lotus. And then I was a little less nervous for my first Bugs trip.

[01:25:49] Then I was a little less nervous for the next trip. And now I'm just like, yeah, let's just do this. Not to say I'm not respecting how scary and terrifying and dangerous this place

[01:25:59] is, but as far as getting boots on the ground, I'm like, now let's just go. Whatever happens happens. All right, folks, thanks for listening. And thanks to Mo for making time. Took us a while to get that done. I sure am glad we did.

[01:26:26] I hope to run into her out at some sort of climbing event at some point. If you want to follow Mo a little bit more closely, go ahead and check her out on Instagram, mo.in.mountains. You can also check out her website, moinmountains.com.

[01:26:43] And she's over at Outside Online on the Outside Show where she is also charming and funny. So yeah, get a little more Mo in your life. Also, I want to mention that the Adaptive Climbers Festival registration opens on July 1st.

[01:27:00] Which is in a couple of weeks from right now. I don't know when you'll hear this, but for more information, go to adaptiveclimbersfest.org and check it out or follow them on Instagram as well. Cool. Great.

[01:27:14] I'm going to start my vacation back up here in a little bit. Maybe get some sleep, maybe send something tomorrow. I hope you guys are sending as well. And the solstice treated you right. It was today, winter, summer, depending on where you are.

[01:27:29] Second half of the year begins now and don't forget to check your knots. That's the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce Business Achiever Award, which is given, well not necessarily given every year, given only when there's a worthy somebody. Is this him with Nancy? Indeed. That is Mr.

[01:28:03] Lebowski with the first lady. Yes. It was taken when Mrs. Reagan. That's Lebowski on the left there. Yeah, of course. Mr. Lebowski on the left. So he's a, you know, a handicapped guy. Mr. Lebowski is disabled. Yes. This picture was taken when Mrs.

[01:28:18] Reagan was first lady in the United States. First lady of the nation. Yes. Yes. Not of California. Chuck. In fact, he met privately with the president though. Unfortunately there wasn't enough time for a photo opportunity. Nancy's pretty good. Oh, wonderful woman. We were very happy to. These are.

[01:28:34] Oh, those are Mr. Lebowski's children. Different mothers. No, they're not. Racially. He's pretty cool. They're not literally his children. They're the little Lebowski urban achievers, inner city children of promise, but without the necessary means for a necessary means for a higher education. So Mr.

[01:28:52] Lebowski is committed to sending all of them to college. Excuse me. Thank you. Thank you. Fire out. I think he's got room for one more. One. Oh, you never went to college. The world is round now. It ain't flat. The teachers told me that's where it's at.