Enormocast 285: Nico Favresse – Mad to Live

[00:00:00] You are listening to The Enormocast.

[00:00:03] Alright, alright, settle down everybody, settle down.

[00:00:07] Okay, Black Diamond C4, take it away.

[00:00:11] Okay, is this thing on?

[00:00:13] Alright everybody, I know you have a few questions after a long winter of ice climbing.

[00:00:18] So, yeah, you in the back, the Trad Dad with the Sig.

[00:00:22] So it seems like I've had Black Diamond Camelouts hanging off my rack since 1987.

[00:00:28] How you still so high on the horse, boy?

[00:00:30] Well, BD retools and redesigns on the rag.

[00:00:33] I'm lighter, stronger with every upgrade.

[00:00:36] Too bad we can't say the same about you, huh Trad Dad?

[00:00:39] I can still hand jam.

[00:00:40] Okay, who's next?

[00:00:41] Uh, yeah, the comp kid who crushes Trad now.

[00:00:45] My mom bought me three sets of Ultralight Camelots.

[00:00:47] Well kid, those ultralights are sweet.

[00:00:50] Light, fast, smooth, all the things.

[00:00:52] But not everybody has a mom with a platinum card willing to buy her snookums whatever she wants, now do they?

[00:00:57] So yeah, ultralights are swell.

[00:00:59] The Ferraris.

[00:01:00] But us C4 Camelots, we're down here in the trenches with you every day, know what I'm saying?

[00:01:05] Like the cam equivalent of your Tacoma.

[00:01:07] Just ask the creek climbers over there.

[00:01:10] Hell yeah, brother!

[00:01:11] Okay, one last question.

[00:01:12] A guy on the internet that doesn't actually climb.

[00:01:16] It says here that a number one C4 holds 12 kilonewtons, while this other brand holds 12.2 kilonewtons.

[00:01:22] Now, in a situation where a factor two occurs after a meteor strike resulting in an ionic reverse polarity electromagnetic shockwave, the question is, would my quad fail?

[00:01:32] Hold on a second, buckaroo.

[00:01:33] Have you ever actually placed a cam?

[00:01:35] Uh, no.

[00:01:36] Alright, I gotta go.

[00:01:37] But just remember, there's only one Black Diamond C4 Camelot.

[00:01:41] We've been here catching you guys the whole time, since the beginning.

[00:01:44] So quit screwing around and go to blackdiamondequipment.com or a local shop and give us a squeeze.

[00:01:49] See what you think.

[00:01:50] Camelots rule.

[00:01:51] Imitators drool.

[00:01:53] Peace.

[00:02:02] Are you stuck in the partner zone?

[00:02:04] Where that person you climb with is blithely unaware of your electric longing that's telegraphing through that stiff gym rope?

[00:02:10] Does she think of you as just another dude she schools in a bullring cave?

[00:02:14] Does he tell his friends you're just like one of the guys?

[00:02:17] Well, break out of the partner zone and let that person know that your rock is in a hard place with a special gift from peterwgilroy.com.

[00:02:25] Because if you thought making sure her chalk bag was always full, or buying him a set of cams for his half birthday would bring out the passion, you're wrong.

[00:02:33] Do it the right way and go to peterwgilroy.com for rock-inspired jewelry and accessories that say,

[00:02:39] to me, you're more than just a solid belay baby.

[00:02:42] And of course, remember to enter Enormo at checkout for a discount.

[00:02:51] Listen, uh, where you playing in town?

[00:02:53] Are you playing here?

[00:02:54] We're doing the, uh, the Enormo dome, whatever it is.

[00:02:56] It's terrific.

[00:02:57] Oh yeah, big place.

[00:02:58] That's a big place.

[00:02:59] You sold it.

[00:03:03] The hell are you doing?

[00:03:06] I couldn't sleep.

[00:03:08] I'm checking the ropes.

[00:03:10] There was a freight end on your rope and I'm cutting it out.

[00:03:14] Good weather, bad weather.

[00:03:26] Now or later, anytime.

[00:03:29] Today's show is brought to you by Black Time and Equipment, La Sportiva, and with support from Maxim Ropes.

[00:03:36] Maxim has been keeping the Enormo cast off the deck since 2012.

[00:03:41] And now we can also thank the chill folks at Yeti.

[00:03:44] And don't forget our charter sponsor, Bonfire Coffee.

[00:03:48] Go to bonfirecoffee.com and entry enormo at checkout to get a great deal on great coffee and to support the Enormo cast.

[00:03:56] And now back to the show.

[00:04:00] Hello and welcome to the Enormo cast.

[00:04:09] This is your host, Chris Calus.

[00:04:10] It is May 15th, 2024.

[00:04:15] About 930 in the morning here in Colorado.

[00:04:19] We're enjoying a Colorado day today that, man, it's hard to beat.

[00:04:24] Upper 60s, low 70s, sunny.

[00:04:27] Should I start adding a weather report to these things?

[00:04:29] No, I don't think so.

[00:04:30] I talk enough.

[00:04:31] Don't you think?

[00:04:32] Anyway, this is episode 285 of the Enormo cast.

[00:04:38] A conversation with Nico Favarez.

[00:04:42] Yeah, baby.

[00:04:43] Nico is on the show.

[00:04:44] I've been chasing Nico for years.

[00:04:46] Not that he wasn't willing, but man, that guy's hard to pin down.

[00:04:50] But yeah, Nico Favarez on the podcast today.

[00:04:54] An epic one.

[00:04:55] I'm so excited about it.

[00:04:56] I hope you guys are too.

[00:04:57] And thank you for letting me indulge myself with these commercials.

[00:05:00] They're getting kind of epic, I know.

[00:05:02] Sometimes I just can't stop.

[00:05:05] I come up with too many jokes.

[00:05:06] I want to get all the jokes in.

[00:05:09] The funny ones and the not so funny ones.

[00:05:12] But I've gotten a couple emails about my Camelot press conference.

[00:05:17] Good emails.

[00:05:19] Maybe you guys skipped it.

[00:05:20] I don't know if you skip them.

[00:05:21] I hope not.

[00:05:22] I try to make sure that you don't skip them.

[00:05:24] Anyway, that's actually a truncated version on this episode.

[00:05:27] If you want to hear the full version,

[00:05:28] usually I only post the really long ones once.

[00:05:32] And that's back on episode 284 with Emma Twyford,

[00:05:35] which is also a really great episode.

[00:05:36] If you missed that one, go back and check that out.

[00:05:39] Emma is just one of the sweetest people I've interviewed in a long time.

[00:05:43] Just a lot of fun to talk to.

[00:05:44] And man, she's a good climber.

[00:05:47] Yeah, anyhow, thanks for sticking around for the commercials.

[00:05:51] The commercials have become kind of an institution here.

[00:05:54] And I tell you, I rack my brain about those things.

[00:05:56] And man, it's a lot of pressure.

[00:06:00] I got Yeti back on board.

[00:06:01] They're starting up next month with some more commercials.

[00:06:04] And there's a little bit of pressure.

[00:06:06] I know the folks over there at BD and at Sportiva.

[00:06:08] They've come to know and love what I do with the commercials.

[00:06:13] But then you get somebody new involved,

[00:06:14] and it's a little nerve-wracking,

[00:06:16] especially somebody as big as Yeti.

[00:06:18] It feels risky.

[00:06:19] You guys probably don't realize that,

[00:06:20] but it feels risky what I do with these commercials.

[00:06:22] I mean, these companies have giant marketing departments.

[00:06:26] And I'm just like, fuck it.

[00:06:27] I'll do what I want.

[00:06:29] I hope some of you admire the boldness of that.

[00:06:32] All right, let's get to Nico.

[00:06:34] I'm excited for this epic interview.

[00:06:37] He was very gracious, finally made it happen.

[00:06:40] I cajoled.

[00:06:41] He's one of those guys I didn't give up on.

[00:06:42] Sometimes I give up on the people who are making it difficult.

[00:06:46] But he didn't mean to do that.

[00:06:48] It's just the way he is.

[00:06:49] He's the nicest dude.

[00:06:50] Does anybody in rock climbing embody the spirit of adventure

[00:06:55] the way Nico does?

[00:06:57] I mean, I think my listeners, you guys in particular,

[00:07:00] just this is the kind of thing you love.

[00:07:02] These guys that go to the end of the earth.

[00:07:05] They have fun, but they also can just put the hammer down.

[00:07:08] I mean, Nico is an amazing climber.

[00:07:10] A lot of people don't even remember the fact

[00:07:12] that he was also an excellent

[00:07:14] and somewhat decorated comp climber back in the day

[00:07:17] before all the big stuff.

[00:07:20] Having a good time out there is a hallmark of what he does,

[00:07:24] which I think we all admire.

[00:07:26] But when the shit hits the fan,

[00:07:28] you can also dig deep and get it done.

[00:07:31] And then he's got these partnerships,

[00:07:32] I think that really embody a lot of what we love about climbing.

[00:07:36] Fellow adventurers, fellow merrymakers at times.

[00:07:40] I mean, guys like Ben Ditto, his brother Olivier,

[00:07:44] new blood to the crew like Seb Berth and Sibba Van Hee.

[00:07:47] And I'm missing so many of these people,

[00:07:50] but of course the one we always think of

[00:07:52] is Sean Villanueva with Driscoll.

[00:07:54] And those guys are a storied pair.

[00:07:56] And climbing has these partnerships that we look at

[00:07:59] that become sort of mythological

[00:08:02] like Todd Skinner and Paul Piana

[00:08:04] and Max Jones and Mark Hudon.

[00:08:08] Where two people find each other,

[00:08:09] it clicks and they just get shit done.

[00:08:12] And I think, man, so many years of Nico and Sean

[00:08:17] doing cool stuff, entertaining us, making us laugh,

[00:08:21] but also making us slap our heads with their boldness.

[00:08:24] So all of it's in here.

[00:08:26] Let's get to it.

[00:08:28] An interview with Nico Favresse.

[00:08:30] But first a message from Dr. Alan Honlove

[00:08:35] of the Good Catch Institute.

[00:08:38] Are you out of balance?

[00:08:39] Do you slip and slide through your climbs

[00:08:41] like a moist and mucilaginous slug?

[00:08:44] Frankly, do you feel like you're losing your edge?

[00:08:48] Hi, I'm Dr. Alan Honlove of the Good Catch Institute.

[00:08:53] And what if I told you that losing your edge

[00:08:56] could be a good thing?

[00:08:59] You see, your granddad dreamed of sending the gnar

[00:09:03] on vertical granite and riding high

[00:09:05] on dime-sized footholds and tight, stiff shoes.

[00:09:08] However, he also thought that training

[00:09:10] simply involved crushing King Cobra malt liquor

[00:09:13] in a parking lot.

[00:09:15] La Sportiva realized long ago that times were a-changing

[00:09:19] and steep, modern climbing needed new tools.

[00:09:22] That's when their No Edge technology was revealed.

[00:09:25] No Edge shoes are designed to push, pull,

[00:09:28] and soothe those slippery, steep climbs into submission,

[00:09:31] no longer standing on a slab of stiff rubber.

[00:09:34] Your toes can now talk to the hold.

[00:09:35] Have a conversation.

[00:09:37] Find a safe space and enjoy a moment of peace

[00:09:40] in this frenzied world.

[00:09:42] So, if your feet wish to come alive,

[00:09:45] check out La Sportiva for their redesigned No Edge shoes

[00:09:48] like the venerable Futura,

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[00:09:58] La Sportiva's newest addition

[00:10:00] to their legendary high-performance lineup,

[00:10:02] the Mandala.

[00:10:05] So, listen to the experts here at the Good Catch Institute

[00:10:09] and go to sportiva.com or your favorite local shop

[00:10:12] to lose your edge but gain control of your life,

[00:10:15] or at least your footwork,

[00:10:17] which is kind of the same thing.

[00:10:21] I sometimes have these stories that I've created in my mind

[00:10:25] and they become apocryphal in the sense that

[00:10:28] as I sort of not only retell them to other people,

[00:10:31] I retell them to myself.

[00:10:33] And as anyone who looks at memory knows

[00:10:36] that every time you retell a story, it changes,

[00:10:39] literally on the neurological level apparently.

[00:10:42] So, I have a story about meeting you in the Verdun

[00:10:46] and I want to see if you remember

[00:10:49] and can corroborate this story of running into you on the rim.

[00:10:53] I think it was like kind of a film

[00:10:55] and you were with Sylvain Millet.

[00:10:58] And you were down like looking at a possible project

[00:11:02] that went cold or I don't know if it was ever finished.

[00:11:06] I was with my buddy, Alan Karn,

[00:11:08] who lives up in Pouy-Missant, the British climber.

[00:11:11] Did I make this entire thing up?

[00:11:14] Do you have any recollection of this?

[00:11:16] Maybe not meeting me, but at least being there,

[00:11:19] doing something like that?

[00:11:21] Yeah, yeah.

[00:11:22] Yeah, definitely.

[00:11:24] Okay, cool.

[00:11:26] No, your neurological connection

[00:11:29] is still functioning correctly, I think on that.

[00:11:32] Okay, perfect.

[00:11:34] Yeah, yeah.

[00:11:36] No, no, definitely I was there with Sylvain Millet

[00:11:38] and we hooked up.

[00:11:40] Actually, it's the only time we hooked up

[00:11:42] for a project together.

[00:11:44] I've been admiring him because he's quite humble

[00:11:47] and he's a crusher.

[00:11:49] And so, I was excited to hook up with him

[00:11:52] on a project trying to open a route in Verdun.

[00:11:56] Also because Verdun is such an amazing piece of rock.

[00:11:59] So we thought maybe together

[00:12:01] we could find something really hard

[00:12:03] and at the same time exceptional of quality.

[00:12:06] And we found something really nice.

[00:12:09] Yeah, we spent, I don't know, a few weeks

[00:12:13] working on this line.

[00:12:16] And we opened five pitches.

[00:12:18] I think the full wall would be probably about 10 pitches.

[00:12:22] But the upper part would be the hardest one.

[00:12:25] And I think two of the pitches are in the 514 plus 515 grade.

[00:12:30] So, yeah, but amazing quality.

[00:12:33] I never went back.

[00:12:35] Actually, this year, Seb Bert,

[00:12:38] he asked me if I was psyched to go and check it out with him.

[00:12:42] So maybe we'd go there and check it out.

[00:12:45] Part of the reason why I didn't go back

[00:12:46] is because I need to be stronger.

[00:12:49] And, you know, I've been going on expedition every year basically.

[00:12:54] And yeah, I've realized since probably I was 24, 25,

[00:12:59] my level in sports climbing hasn't really gone a lot higher.

[00:13:04] And part of the reason is because I go on expedition every year.

[00:13:08] Sometimes a couple times a year.

[00:13:10] And it's hard to imagine how much time

[00:13:13] it takes to recover from an expedition.

[00:13:16] When it's like long, when you are digging into your reserve

[00:13:21] and it's exhausting.

[00:13:23] Often it takes like maybe two or three months before you recover.

[00:13:27] And then after that, you can start to rebuild the shape.

[00:13:30] But then if you go on another trip six months later,

[00:13:33] it's hard to improve your level,

[00:13:36] your pure strength for, you know, hard grades.

[00:13:40] Well, yeah, I mean, you came up in another conversation recently

[00:13:44] on my other podcast, The Runout.

[00:13:46] And it's all around climbers.

[00:13:48] And, you know, these people who can climb

[00:13:52] at least at a certain level, a very high level

[00:13:55] in a lot of disciplines.

[00:13:57] And I mean, you're definitely at the top of the list for that.

[00:13:59] I'm looking at your resume.

[00:14:01] And the reason that that's impressive to me

[00:14:04] and should be to everyone is because of that exact issue

[00:14:07] of, you know, being a specialist is, you know,

[00:14:11] you can put all your focus into those one things

[00:14:13] and that, you know, can increase your performance level.

[00:14:16] But to have the level that you have,

[00:14:18] it seems to be, you know, able to recall when you need it,

[00:14:23] whether it's to go climb something like Recovery Drink,

[00:14:26] you know, which is a really high-end trad route

[00:14:29] to climb, you know, Lorain Amora,

[00:14:32] which is on your resume,

[00:14:34] something that's like a super high-level sport climb.

[00:14:36] It's really unusual.

[00:14:38] Is there anything you can kind of point to

[00:14:40] other than just psych and genetics and talent

[00:14:43] that allows you to at least, you know,

[00:14:46] be kind of right in the mix at those high levels,

[00:14:49] if not at the highest, highest level on those disciplines?

[00:14:52] What's the question?

[00:14:54] The question is how do you do it, Doc?

[00:14:56] How do you do it?

[00:14:58] I mean, how do you maintain,

[00:15:00] how are you so good at everything is basically the question.

[00:15:03] I think one of the things

[00:15:09] that helped me be good at all these things

[00:15:13] is that in Belgium we have one sports crag called Freire,

[00:15:17] which is really technical.

[00:15:19] And when you can climb well there,

[00:15:22] it's the open door to climb well any style.

[00:15:27] Basically, you have like hard cracks,

[00:15:29] you have like hard face,

[00:15:31] it's really slippery and really tough and run out.

[00:15:35] And I feel like somehow I was really lucky

[00:15:39] to grow up there as a climber

[00:15:40] and was a really good base to then adapt my skills

[00:15:46] to different style.

[00:15:48] Also, I grew up mostly climbing in gyms in Belgium

[00:15:52] because the weather is often bad.

[00:15:54] So I spent most of that time climbing in gym

[00:15:56] when I was in Belgium until I was maybe 24.

[00:15:58] And so I gained some physical strength,

[00:16:01] but I was climbing a lot outside too.

[00:16:03] And so I was also connected to that really technical stuff.

[00:16:07] Also, not only technical,

[00:16:10] but also sometimes very bouldery,

[00:16:12] but always weird stuff.

[00:16:14] And yeah, it's one thing to learn to be strong,

[00:16:17] to pull down on some crimps and stuff,

[00:16:19] but to learn how to do all these weird moves,

[00:16:23] I feel like I was lucky to grow up in Freire.

[00:16:26] Then the transition to climbing in Yosemite

[00:16:31] or any style was a little easier

[00:16:33] because I had this experience.

[00:16:36] Well, it's cool.

[00:16:38] I just crossed out that line on my notes here

[00:16:40] that just said Freire question mark.

[00:16:42] Because actually when I talked to Siba,

[00:16:45] he also literally credited that place

[00:16:49] in the exact same way that you just did

[00:16:51] as part of why he can climb in that same sense.

[00:16:56] So it's kind of funny

[00:16:58] because it's not a famous climbing area by any means.

[00:17:01] I think most people have never heard of it.

[00:17:03] But it seems to be this laboratory

[00:17:06] to produce some real good climbers.

[00:17:10] Yeah, it's very, very technical.

[00:17:13] It's not popular because it's a hard place to climb.

[00:17:17] So it's not the place for people to lift their egos.

[00:17:21] I think the grades are really sandbagged

[00:17:23] and it's really run out.

[00:17:25] And also it's hard condition-wise

[00:17:27] because it rains a lot.

[00:17:29] And then when it doesn't rain,

[00:17:31] it's in the sun most of the crags.

[00:17:33] They're selling it.

[00:17:35] But also one thing that I find is really key.

[00:17:40] One thing also that makes Freire really cool

[00:17:44] is that it's one area

[00:17:46] that connects all the climbing community in Belgium.

[00:17:49] And you have like a Belgian fries place

[00:17:52] on the top of the cliff.

[00:17:54] So after climbing,

[00:17:56] everybody meets there, drink a beer and have fries.

[00:17:58] And the community gets together

[00:18:00] and brings a nice vibe.

[00:18:02] I think for the Belgian community,

[00:18:06] it's amazing to connect.

[00:18:08] It's an amazing place to connect.

[00:18:10] A bit like Red River Gorge.

[00:18:12] Yeah, like Miguel's.

[00:18:14] Yeah, exactly.

[00:18:16] From an American perspective,

[00:18:18] obviously as climbers we're pretty international.

[00:18:22] Most of us know about European climbing.

[00:18:24] But then we think of Belgium

[00:18:26] and it's like, yeah, it's flat.

[00:18:28] Not realizing that obviously

[00:18:30] when you're up here,

[00:18:32] you're not very far away from the Alps

[00:18:34] or things like that

[00:18:36] or the limestone of France

[00:18:38] or all these other things.

[00:18:40] But it is a curiosity I think in our minds

[00:18:42] of how do all these crushers come out of Belgium?

[00:18:44] But every once in a while when I talk to one,

[00:18:47] this place comes up, Freire.

[00:18:49] And it's just, like I said,

[00:18:51] it really feels like this incubator

[00:18:54] that shoots these climbers out

[00:18:56] into the greater, bigger, more renowned places

[00:19:00] and ready to go, so to speak.

[00:19:02] Also, we are,

[00:19:04] Belgium, we are one of the countries

[00:19:07] who had the first public climbing gyms.

[00:19:10] I think maybe the first public climbing gym

[00:19:14] was in Belgium already.

[00:19:16] I don't know how many years,

[00:19:18] but maybe 30 years ago or something.

[00:19:20] And so we have been quite ahead

[00:19:22] of the other countries with climbing gyms.

[00:19:25] We had many gyms already

[00:19:27] when I started climbing.

[00:19:28] So yeah, 30 years ago,

[00:19:31] there was already plenty of climbing gyms in Belgium.

[00:19:35] So it was quite popular.

[00:19:37] And actually,

[00:19:39] Belgium has a long culture with climbing.

[00:19:42] We had even like one of our kings

[00:19:45] that basically died while free soloing.

[00:19:48] Oh really?

[00:19:50] Yeah.

[00:19:52] And one of the climbing club

[00:19:55] that still founded in Belgium,

[00:19:58] was founded by the king

[00:20:00] and has a lot of money.

[00:20:02] So yeah, sometimes you can support expedition

[00:20:05] because they have money

[00:20:07] already from the time of the king.

[00:20:10] Right, some sort of endowment probably.

[00:20:13] That's incredible.

[00:20:15] Yeah, I mean the whole like Alps climbing

[00:20:17] 100 years ago or 150 years ago

[00:20:20] or however long ago,

[00:20:22] it was like this gentleman thing

[00:20:24] that rich people did.

[00:20:25] And he probably attracted some of these aristocrats

[00:20:28] and royalty from around the world.

[00:20:30] I mean,

[00:20:32] was it a prince or something like that?

[00:20:35] An unk2?

[00:20:37] I feel like he had like the word prince

[00:20:39] attached to his name.

[00:20:41] But definitely dukes,

[00:20:43] people like that were out in the greater ranges too.

[00:20:45] Yes, the Belgian king

[00:20:47] that died free soloing,

[00:20:49] he did a lot of that.

[00:20:51] He climbed a lot of things in the Alps with guides.

[00:20:52] And yeah,

[00:20:54] there's some old pictures.

[00:20:56] Tweets, suits on and big canes and pipes

[00:20:58] and the whole thing.

[00:21:00] So one of the things that like

[00:21:02] in your origin story

[00:21:04] that jumped out as kind of wild

[00:21:06] is this exchange that you did

[00:21:08] in your late teens

[00:21:10] to the US which put you in Yosemite.

[00:21:12] And you know,

[00:21:14] talking about being this gym climber,

[00:21:16] I think is what you were

[00:21:18] mostly prior to that.

[00:21:20] And then all of a sudden

[00:21:22] you flipped the coin entirely

[00:21:24] to Yosemite.

[00:21:26] So tell me about this opportunity,

[00:21:28] this exchange that you did.

[00:21:30] Was it like based in like

[00:21:32] I want to get to California

[00:21:34] and I want to get to these places

[00:21:36] or was it just a lucky happenstance

[00:21:38] that those two things collided?

[00:21:40] Yes, it's kind of luck

[00:21:42] that it collided.

[00:21:44] But actually the first idea

[00:21:46] was my parents' idea

[00:21:48] that I need to learn

[00:21:50] how to speak English.

[00:21:52] I was in my high school

[00:21:54] in Belgium.

[00:21:56] So they thought it would be

[00:21:58] a good idea for me to do another year

[00:22:00] in the US, in high school there

[00:22:02] to learn how to speak English.

[00:22:04] So I did an exchange

[00:22:06] with the Rotary.

[00:22:08] My family are not in the Rotary

[00:22:10] but it was an easy way

[00:22:12] because they would accept

[00:22:14] somebody to stay at my place

[00:22:16] in Belgium and I would go

[00:22:18] to some other place.

[00:22:20] And actually I didn't have

[00:22:22] a place to stay.

[00:22:24] What city?

[00:22:26] Marysville, north of Sacramento

[00:22:28] in the middle of nowhere basically.

[00:22:34] And I was hooked with climbing

[00:22:36] but I was willing

[00:22:38] to pose my climbing

[00:22:40] to live this experience.

[00:22:44] Before I left

[00:22:46] a friend of mine

[00:22:48] gave me a hangboard

[00:22:50] and I remember

[00:22:52] one of the first things I did

[00:22:54] I put the hangboard

[00:22:56] just above the door

[00:22:58] and for a while

[00:23:00] when I was in high school

[00:23:02] in California

[00:23:03] I was just hangboarding.

[00:23:05] I was so psyched.

[00:23:07] I was probably hangboarding

[00:23:09] like four times a week

[00:23:11] like doing hours.

[00:23:13] And then...

[00:23:15] Wait a second, hold on a second.

[00:23:17] So you drop into America

[00:23:19] and deep, you know

[00:23:20] people think of California

[00:23:22] as basically like

[00:23:24] San Francisco and LA

[00:23:26] but here you are

[00:23:27] out in the countryside

[00:23:29] a little bit.

[00:23:30] There's plenty of rural areas

[00:23:32] so what did these people

[00:23:34] think of this Belgian kid

[00:23:36] that's hanging on his fingers

[00:23:38] for hours a day?

[00:23:40] They thought I was an alien.

[00:23:42] No, they were really

[00:23:44] a traditional family

[00:23:46] really religious.

[00:23:48] Oh yeah, no, I was going

[00:23:49] to say Catholic as well

[00:23:51] and Rotary doesn't have to be

[00:23:53] super like connected

[00:23:55] to religion but a lot of times

[00:23:57] the exchange programs are

[00:23:59] so I know about that

[00:24:00] so that's interesting too.

[00:24:01] Yeah, they had like a portrait

[00:24:03] of the Pope in each room.

[00:24:05] Oh, Catholic, alright.

[00:24:07] Yeah, yeah.

[00:24:09] I think the first day I arrived

[00:24:11] Saturday night

[00:24:13] I think the next day was Sunday

[00:24:15] and they even brought me

[00:24:17] directly to the church.

[00:24:19] Yeah, but after that one time

[00:24:21] they understood that

[00:24:23] I didn't need to go

[00:24:25] other times.

[00:24:27] I'm not against religion

[00:24:29] or anything.

[00:24:30] I respect very much

[00:24:32] spiritualism

[00:24:34] but yeah.

[00:24:36] That's cool.

[00:24:38] So anyway back to the Yosemite

[00:24:40] connection how did that happen?

[00:24:42] So basically I was there

[00:24:44] I tried to maintain shape

[00:24:46] as much as possible

[00:24:47] and I was even

[00:24:49] walking in the

[00:24:51] hills there

[00:24:53] and I found some boulders

[00:24:55] and I was bouldering by myself

[00:24:57] then I

[00:24:59] found a climbing gym

[00:25:01] in Grass Valley.

[00:25:03] It was a little climbing gym

[00:25:05] there and so I went to the gym

[00:25:07] started climbing, I met some

[00:25:09] people but I didn't have

[00:25:11] a car or any transportation

[00:25:13] it was kind of far

[00:25:15] and I couldn't ask my

[00:25:17] host family to hitchhike

[00:25:19] but I could not tell my

[00:25:21] host family of course

[00:25:23] that I was hitchhiking

[00:25:25] but I did often to go

[00:25:27] climbing then every weekend

[00:25:29] I had opportunities to go

[00:25:31] climbing then I

[00:25:33] went climbing.

[00:25:35] I had to convince my

[00:25:37] host family that it would

[00:25:39] be okay that I would

[00:25:41] go climbing because I

[00:25:43] was climbing this climbing

[00:25:45] gym there were a few

[00:25:46] local competitions

[00:25:48] but then at some

[00:25:50] point my host family

[00:25:52] thought it was too

[00:25:54] dangerous for them to take

[00:25:56] the responsibility of the

[00:25:58] climbing so the program

[00:26:00] contacted me and they said

[00:26:02] okay now you have to decide

[00:26:04] whether you stay in the

[00:26:06] program and you quit

[00:26:08] climbing or you

[00:26:10] have to leave the

[00:26:12] program and I was so

[00:26:14] psyched when they proposed

[00:26:16] me to stay and to do

[00:26:18] whatever and I had

[00:26:20] already spent like

[00:26:22] four or five months in

[00:26:24] school I had learned

[00:26:26] enough English to get

[00:26:28] away yeah so my family

[00:26:30] signed a paper and I just

[00:26:32] left I knew some people

[00:26:34] in Grass Valley so I

[00:26:36] crashed there and then

[00:26:38] I hitchhiked to first

[00:26:40] two red rocks and I

[00:26:42] didn't even have a tent

[00:26:44] I had a rope that I

[00:26:46] had on in the competition

[00:26:48] I just sleeping bag and

[00:26:50] I had the guitar and

[00:26:52] I hitchhiked to red

[00:26:54] rocks because that's one

[00:26:56] of the only place I knew

[00:26:58] about climbing I remember

[00:27:00] I would go for the first

[00:27:02] week I was there I

[00:27:04] would go to to a

[00:27:06] crag with my guitar and

[00:27:08] my gear and then if I

[00:27:10] meet somebody I would

[00:27:12] ask if I could climb

[00:27:13] with the person and if

[00:27:14] I was having a blast

[00:27:16] it was fun I bet

[00:27:18] yeah unreal just like in

[00:27:20] the American West you know

[00:27:22] I mean like that's pretty

[00:27:24] intense because I mean

[00:27:26] it's I know that from a

[00:27:28] European like perspective

[00:27:30] the American West is you

[00:27:32] know mythological and

[00:27:33] legendary so I can only

[00:27:35] imagine like hitchhiking

[00:27:37] across you know you

[00:27:39] know from California

[00:27:41] across the middle of

[00:27:42] Nevada I mean you'd have

[00:27:44] to go to California

[00:27:46] yeah yeah it must have

[00:27:48] been pretty wild plus the

[00:27:50] experience hitchhiking you

[00:27:51] meet all kinds of people

[00:27:53] sometimes quite strange

[00:27:55] and then quite nice and

[00:27:57] yeah somehow I had a

[00:27:59] lot of experience hitchhiking

[00:28:01] Europe but the people you

[00:28:03] run into hitchhiking Europe

[00:28:05] it's less often you you

[00:28:07] meet that kind of strange

[00:28:09] people or like it's a bit

[00:28:11] more extravagant in the

[00:28:12] middle of the country

[00:28:14] I want to stay to the

[00:28:16] climbing but I also want

[00:28:18] at least a moment here

[00:28:20] to to talk about a

[00:28:22] Belgian kid dropping into

[00:28:24] a like classic American

[00:28:26] high school like well do

[00:28:28] you have any memories from

[00:28:29] that that stick with you

[00:28:31] or you just you must have

[00:28:33] been pretty interesting

[00:28:34] cat to sit next to you

[00:28:36] and you know whatever

[00:28:38] science or any of the

[00:28:40] classes you're possibly

[00:28:41] taking because I had

[00:28:43] there was a lot of

[00:28:45] compared to the pro the

[00:28:47] program in the in in

[00:28:48] Europe is a little bit

[00:28:49] more academic and like

[00:28:50] more serious classes and

[00:28:52] there I could choose like

[00:28:54] I had a guitar class so

[00:28:56] that was one hour every

[00:28:58] day and then I had the

[00:29:00] P1 hour every day and

[00:29:02] then a lot of the

[00:29:04] class were really easy

[00:29:06] but I was like not even

[00:29:08] understanding was a thing

[00:29:09] I was like I was like

[00:29:10] working in class or when

[00:29:11] I had to do like a paper

[00:29:13] or something and then the

[00:29:15] teacher always could find

[00:29:16] something positive to say

[00:29:18] and I thought that was so

[00:29:20] awesome yeah yeah like

[00:29:22] where in Europe most of

[00:29:24] the time people would say

[00:29:25] that this is bad this is

[00:29:27] bad and this is bad and

[00:29:28] they would not say

[00:29:29] anything positive like in

[00:29:31] in the US at least in

[00:29:32] California like they would

[00:29:33] always find something

[00:29:35] positive to say and I

[00:29:36] thought that was really

[00:29:37] really nice that's cool

[00:29:38] and I was really lucky to

[00:29:39] have like music with me

[00:29:41] so that's really that

[00:29:43] really opened some

[00:29:45] doors to meet other

[00:29:48] people in school some

[00:29:50] the cool kids and I was

[00:29:52] every lunch break I was

[00:29:54] jamming with people and I

[00:29:56] was really it was really

[00:29:57] a important time of my

[00:29:59] life for music I was

[00:30:00] playing you know probably

[00:30:01] four hours every day and

[00:30:03] after school I would meet

[00:30:04] with some kids from school

[00:30:05] and we had a band and we

[00:30:06] were playing and yeah

[00:30:08] awesome yeah who's that in

[00:30:09] the background it's my

[00:30:11] dog Bincha

[00:30:13] oh yeah right on

[00:30:15] Bincha yeah

[00:30:19] but what about like the

[00:30:21] Yosemite part we haven't

[00:30:22] quite gotten to that yet

[00:30:24] because I think that like

[00:30:26] the giant walls and

[00:30:28] the granite even you

[00:30:30] know played this like super

[00:30:32] important part of your life

[00:30:33] and Yosemite itself

[00:30:34] you know return trips and

[00:30:35] things like that so talk a

[00:30:37] little bit about the

[00:30:38] connection to that place

[00:30:39] and how that happened

[00:30:40] yeah actually during that

[00:30:42] time I didn't really get

[00:30:44] yet into the track climbing

[00:30:46] so much well I got two

[00:30:48] draws you know you only

[00:30:49] had two quick draws so

[00:30:50] yeah exactly I was more

[00:30:52] tricky I was more driven

[00:30:54] to push my my level in

[00:30:55] sports climbing but I

[00:30:57] went there it was the

[00:30:59] first time when I was 18

[00:31:01] actually I climb in

[00:31:02] Orange River Gorge and I

[00:31:03] met this guy from San

[00:31:05] Francisco and he was super

[00:31:06] nice and one day when I

[00:31:08] was still in with that

[00:31:10] family in California what

[00:31:11] they drove to my house he

[00:31:13] picked me up and he brought

[00:31:14] me for three days in

[00:31:15] Yosemite and we I did my

[00:31:17] first track climb with him

[00:31:19] it did like really like

[00:31:20] easy but the weather

[00:31:21] wasn't so great but I

[00:31:23] remember just looking at

[00:31:24] El Cap and it was cloudy

[00:31:26] at first I couldn't see

[00:31:27] and then it was a cloud

[00:31:28] and then you look about

[00:31:29] it was like in the top of

[00:31:30] El Cap just stuck a

[00:31:32] cloud above the clouds and

[00:31:33] it was so impressive yeah

[00:31:35] and I remember also

[00:31:37] meeting Leo Holding there

[00:31:39] which I had met before when

[00:31:41] I did some youth European

[00:31:43] youth competition he was

[00:31:45] in the lodge and it was

[00:31:47] kind of interesting seeing

[00:31:49] him he was really into

[00:31:51] already the walls and

[00:31:53] track climbing and stuff

[00:31:55] yes you know I have a

[00:31:56] question here about

[00:31:58] influences we can jump

[00:32:00] around a bunch I have sort

[00:32:01] of a long name written

[00:32:02] down as Wolfgang Kubik as

[00:32:04] one of them but it sounds

[00:32:06] like Leo probably because

[00:32:08] you ended up beginning to

[00:32:10] climb with him eventually

[00:32:11] on these walls and he was

[00:32:13] he was a step ahead of you

[00:32:15] as far as not only climbing

[00:32:17] big stuff but also dirt

[00:32:18] bagging you know you had

[00:32:20] your first like your first

[00:32:22] dirtbag you know education

[00:32:24] at Red Rocks there he was

[00:32:26] well in it by then so

[00:32:28] talk a little bit about

[00:32:29] those influences

[00:32:30] but actually I didn't

[00:32:31] climb with Leo

[00:32:33] no no I just met him

[00:32:35] at some competition and we

[00:32:37] crossed in different times

[00:32:39] I'm thinking of Evo actually

[00:32:41] ah Evo yeah

[00:32:43] the two names crossed up

[00:32:45] in my head

[00:32:47] yeah basically I got

[00:32:49] into the valley more in

[00:32:51] 2004

[00:32:53] 2004 2005 I think

[00:32:55] it was 2004

[00:32:57] we came there and

[00:32:58] that's when we met Evo

[00:33:00] and then after that

[00:33:02] trip I had an American

[00:33:04] girlfriend who was in

[00:33:05] San Francisco and so

[00:33:07] I was on and off

[00:33:09] in the US and every

[00:33:11] time I was visiting her I

[00:33:12] would go to Yosemite

[00:33:14] at that period she was

[00:33:15] studying so I was often

[00:33:17] by myself in Yosemite

[00:33:19] and so I climbed with

[00:33:21] different people in the

[00:33:22] valley and Evo was

[00:33:24] definitely one of the

[00:33:26] guys to get advice

[00:33:28] and always psyched to get

[00:33:29] on mission

[00:33:30] yeah yeah I mean one of

[00:33:31] the things you guys did

[00:33:33] you put this Lost in

[00:33:34] Translation route

[00:33:35] ground up free

[00:33:37] I think it was in 2006

[00:33:39] yeah

[00:33:41] it was Evo's idea he had

[00:33:42] seen the line or anything

[00:33:44] you have to imagine

[00:33:46] it's also

[00:33:48] your CL cap is quite far

[00:33:49] on the right

[00:33:50] yeah the right side

[00:33:51] it's a bit apart where

[00:33:53] I don't know if you can

[00:33:54] call it a cap still

[00:33:56] like the

[00:33:57] over by the spot

[00:33:58] yeah

[00:33:59] and yeah it was pretty

[00:34:01] strange actually that

[00:34:02] nobody had tried

[00:34:04] to climb there

[00:34:06] but

[00:34:08] and yeah we got

[00:34:10] together and directly

[00:34:12] ground up but

[00:34:14] yeah I

[00:34:15] think it's not

[00:34:17] as a big of a deal as

[00:34:18] people make it sound like

[00:34:20] right as compared to other

[00:34:21] things we do like an

[00:34:22] expedition stuff like

[00:34:23] is something so much

[00:34:24] harder than we've done

[00:34:25] ground up

[00:34:26] it's just because it's the

[00:34:27] name of El Cap that

[00:34:28] you know you think like

[00:34:29] El Cap ground up

[00:34:30] is it's kind of a

[00:34:31] crunch well

[00:34:32] to get to do such

[00:34:33] thing but because it's

[00:34:34] so far right

[00:34:36] I don't I don't know if

[00:34:37] it's really caused

[00:34:38] to write it that far

[00:34:39] up

[00:34:43] so

[00:34:44] tell me what the secret

[00:34:45] passage is then

[00:34:46] yeah secret passage

[00:34:48] I'm quite proud of that

[00:34:50] because it's the secret

[00:34:51] passage

[00:34:53] was really a fine line

[00:34:54] between being impossible

[00:34:56] and being possible

[00:34:57] a lot of people have told

[00:34:58] me people had look

[00:35:00] over there and had not

[00:35:01] seen it

[00:35:03] line going free there

[00:35:04] and me and Sean we

[00:35:06] just finished a trip in

[00:35:07] North America we

[00:35:08] we had been squamish

[00:35:09] bugaboos and we

[00:35:11] we arrived in

[00:35:12] Yosemite and I told

[00:35:13] Sean I

[00:35:15] have seen this line I

[00:35:16] think people say

[00:35:17] there's nothing there

[00:35:18] but I

[00:35:20] being with Sean

[00:35:23] it's just such a good

[00:35:24] partner that you can

[00:35:26] envision

[00:35:27] you know a lot of

[00:35:28] things with him so

[00:35:29] we decided to try

[00:35:30] it and to try

[00:35:32] to do it ground

[00:35:33] up

[00:35:34] and actually

[00:35:36] the line that he

[00:35:37] follows is Eagle's

[00:35:38] Way so we first went

[00:35:39] to try to free

[00:35:40] Eagle's Way basically

[00:35:41] and then we realized

[00:35:42] Eagle's Way wasn't

[00:35:43] going to go free

[00:35:45] but as we went up

[00:35:46] we found

[00:35:47] a lot of free

[00:35:48] variation

[00:35:49] until we arrived

[00:35:50] quite close to the

[00:35:51] summit and there

[00:35:52] it looked like there

[00:35:53] was a four meter

[00:35:54] section really

[00:35:55] maybe possible

[00:35:56] but at a

[00:35:57] boulder

[00:35:58] level

[00:35:59] that would be

[00:36:00] too hard for me

[00:36:01] to envision

[00:36:02] while being on the

[00:36:03] wall so

[00:36:04] we topped out

[00:36:05] and then

[00:36:06] when we topped

[00:36:07] out I thought

[00:36:08] maybe it's not worth

[00:36:09] going back you know

[00:36:10] spending all this

[00:36:11] effort trying to

[00:36:12] free something if

[00:36:13] it's not going to be

[00:36:14] a fully free

[00:36:15] climbable route

[00:36:16] but

[00:36:17] after a few

[00:36:18] days of rest

[00:36:19] you know your

[00:36:20] motivation gets

[00:36:21] higher up you

[00:36:22] might as well just

[00:36:23] just go and try

[00:36:24] even if it doesn't

[00:36:25] free we try to

[00:36:26] free as much as

[00:36:27] possible and it's

[00:36:28] going to be a blast

[00:36:29] to be on the wall

[00:36:30] and trying to

[00:36:31] red point these

[00:36:32] pitches so

[00:36:33] we actually

[00:36:34] went back

[00:36:35] and

[00:36:36] we freed

[00:36:37] everything

[00:36:38] until the point

[00:36:39] where we thought

[00:36:40] it wouldn't be

[00:36:41] free climbable

[00:36:42] and

[00:36:43] I was ready

[00:36:44] actually to make

[00:36:45] something like where

[00:36:46] Sean stands

[00:36:47] on the ledge

[00:36:48] and I stand on

[00:36:49] his back and I

[00:36:50] think from his

[00:36:51] back I could

[00:36:52] probably reach

[00:36:53] the height of

[00:36:54] free but

[00:36:55] somehow

[00:36:56] it was

[00:36:57] really not

[00:36:58] obvious that

[00:36:59] it would go

[00:37:00] free there was

[00:37:01] like a long

[00:37:02] down

[00:37:03] ramp and

[00:37:04] then a wall

[00:37:05] that was really

[00:37:06] blank and

[00:37:07] it looked impossible

[00:37:08] that it would

[00:37:09] go free but

[00:37:10] because we were

[00:37:11] there and we had

[00:37:12] freed everything I

[00:37:13] was willing to

[00:37:14] try to see

[00:37:15] every detail

[00:37:16] to see if

[00:37:17] to make sure it

[00:37:18] was not possible

[00:37:19] and there I

[00:37:20] there was a bit

[00:37:21] of grass on

[00:37:22] the wall

[00:37:23] sticking out and

[00:37:24] we went

[00:37:25] looked and it was

[00:37:26] like a seam

[00:37:27] cutting through

[00:37:28] a perfectly

[00:37:29] flat sheet of

[00:37:30] rock and

[00:37:31] yeah just

[00:37:32] cleaning the grass

[00:37:33] I just discovered

[00:37:34] just the holes

[00:37:35] to make

[00:37:36] to bypass this

[00:37:37] four meter

[00:37:38] making this loop

[00:37:39] and amazing

[00:37:40] pitches

[00:37:41] making an

[00:37:42] amazing pitch

[00:37:43] to bypass

[00:37:44] this section

[00:37:45] and

[00:37:46] then we

[00:37:47] managed to

[00:37:48] free the route

[00:37:49] for me

[00:37:50] it was

[00:37:51] really

[00:37:52] powerful because

[00:37:53] also below

[00:37:54] there was a lot

[00:37:55] of moment where

[00:37:56] it was really

[00:37:57] not obvious and

[00:37:58] it was just

[00:37:59] you know sometimes

[00:38:00] a matter of

[00:38:01] one hold

[00:38:02] or two

[00:38:03] that made it

[00:38:04] possible to

[00:38:05] free the route

[00:38:06] yeah and

[00:38:07] it was a time

[00:38:08] where I was

[00:38:09] quite bold

[00:38:10] also so we

[00:38:11] made it

[00:38:12] like we

[00:38:13] almost didn't

[00:38:14] add anything

[00:38:15] so the route

[00:38:16] is I think

[00:38:17] quite bold

[00:38:18] and

[00:38:19] yeah

[00:41:50] it's

[00:41:51] quite hard

[00:41:52] and stuff

[00:41:53] but first of all

[00:41:54] for me it has to

[00:41:55] be fun

[00:41:56] and I can

[00:41:57] suffer probably

[00:41:58] if I am with a

[00:41:59] good team

[00:42:00] where then

[00:42:01] suffering can be

[00:42:02] fun because you

[00:42:03] are you know

[00:42:04] through suffering

[00:42:05] you connect more

[00:42:06] and then you

[00:42:07] can develop some

[00:42:08] nice stimulation

[00:42:09] and things

[00:42:10] but suffering

[00:42:11] for suffering

[00:42:12] no

[00:42:13] this is not me

[00:42:14] yeah for me

[00:42:15] it has to be

[00:42:16] first of all

[00:42:17] it has to be about

[00:42:18] enjoying

[00:42:19] climbing of course

[00:42:20] it's a fine line

[00:42:21] when conditions

[00:42:22] are rough

[00:42:23] when you're climbing

[00:42:24] for example in

[00:42:25] Patagonia when

[00:42:26] it's like always

[00:42:27] cold and stuff

[00:42:28] like but I

[00:42:29] feel like the

[00:42:30] fun

[00:42:31] like being with

[00:42:32] a good team

[00:42:33] or like

[00:42:34] create

[00:42:35] like

[00:42:36] yeah being

[00:42:37] with a good team

[00:42:38] can make up for

[00:42:39] that and it

[00:42:40] can actually

[00:42:41] transform the

[00:42:42] difficulty in

[00:42:43] something fun

[00:42:44] because also

[00:42:45] when it's kind

[00:42:46] of fucked up

[00:42:47] it can be funny

[00:42:48] in a weird way

[00:42:51] I see different

[00:42:52] people

[00:42:53] climbing

[00:42:54] being different

[00:42:55] about it

[00:42:56] some people

[00:42:57] are really need

[00:42:58] they need to suffer

[00:42:59] and to enjoy

[00:43:00] and to find their

[00:43:01] limits

[00:43:02] and

[00:43:03] to

[00:43:04] feel alive

[00:43:05] and things like this

[00:43:06] for me

[00:43:07] I might have been

[00:43:08] a bit more like

[00:43:09] that in the past

[00:43:10] no

[00:43:11] it's different

[00:43:12] no I think

[00:43:13] first of all

[00:43:14] if I'm on an

[00:43:15] expedition

[00:43:16] I need to have

[00:43:17] a good time

[00:43:18] with people

[00:43:19] I enjoy

[00:43:20] I don't care if

[00:43:21] they are actually

[00:43:22] not so strong

[00:43:23] or whatever

[00:43:24] but I want to

[00:43:25] have a good time

[00:43:26] yeah this is the

[00:43:27] most important for me

[00:43:28] you know again

[00:43:29] I've watched it

[00:43:30] for years

[00:43:31] we have friends

[00:43:32] in common

[00:43:33] so I know a little

[00:43:34] bit about what

[00:43:35] it's like to

[00:43:36] climb with you

[00:43:37] and through

[00:43:38] them

[00:43:39] and the

[00:43:40] thing that I've

[00:43:41] always wondered

[00:43:42] about those

[00:43:43] like when

[00:43:44] that kind of

[00:43:45] you're just

[00:43:46] like

[00:43:47] I hear about

[00:43:48] all these

[00:43:49] instruments

[00:43:50] being hauled

[00:43:51] up on these

[00:43:52] walls

[00:43:53] is there ever

[00:43:54] somebody that's

[00:43:55] like dude

[00:43:56] let's just leave

[00:43:57] that guitar home

[00:43:58] you've got these

[00:43:59] other ones

[00:44:00] or I've always

[00:44:01] wondered too

[00:44:02] I have this

[00:44:03] funny image

[00:44:04] in my mind

[00:44:05] where it's like

[00:44:06] Sean pulls out

[00:44:07] you're in some

[00:44:08] heinous situation

[00:44:09] and Sean

[00:44:10] pulls out

[00:44:11] his whistle

[00:44:12] and somebody

[00:44:13] in the team

[00:44:14] is just like

[00:44:15] I hear this whistle

[00:44:16] like put it away

[00:44:17] does that ever happen

[00:44:18] like you guys

[00:44:19] meet in this wall

[00:44:20] of like alright

[00:44:21] maybe this isn't

[00:44:22] the time

[00:44:23] especially because

[00:44:24] sometimes music

[00:44:25] can be a place

[00:44:26] where you put

[00:44:27] your stress on

[00:44:28] so for example

[00:44:29] Sean

[00:44:30] when he gets

[00:44:31] stressed about

[00:44:32] something

[00:44:33] or when we need

[00:44:34] to talk about

[00:44:35] making a decision

[00:44:36] he will get

[00:44:37] his whistle

[00:44:38] and it will

[00:44:39] just be like

[00:44:40] in your face

[00:44:41] like

[00:44:42] and I probably

[00:44:43] do the same

[00:44:44] sometimes you know

[00:44:45] we are so much

[00:44:46] on each other

[00:44:47] on the wall

[00:44:48] that sometimes

[00:44:49] it gets like that

[00:44:50] but somehow

[00:44:51] when you get

[00:44:52] on the wall

[00:44:53] we can have

[00:44:54] I've never had

[00:44:55] any arguments

[00:44:56] with anybody

[00:44:57] because we are

[00:44:58] working together

[00:44:59] for an objective

[00:45:00] so as much as

[00:45:01] it can be annoying

[00:45:02] we find a way

[00:45:03] yeah

[00:45:04] well I mean

[00:45:05] it's clear that you

[00:45:06] I mean we need

[00:45:07] to talk about Sean

[00:45:08] because I think

[00:45:09] talking about

[00:45:10] your partnership

[00:45:11] with someone like him

[00:45:12] it will be revealing

[00:45:13] and it will be

[00:45:14] a lot of personality

[00:45:15] but before we get to that

[00:45:16] like you know

[00:45:17] we watch you

[00:45:18] and I say we

[00:45:19] again the greater

[00:45:20] climbing community

[00:45:21] through your media

[00:45:22] you know

[00:45:23] you obviously

[00:45:24] have this sort of

[00:45:25] group

[00:45:26] this cadre

[00:45:27] of people

[00:45:28] that you'll go

[00:45:29] on these trips with

[00:45:30] and then

[00:45:31] it feels like

[00:45:32] occasionally

[00:45:33] you're needing

[00:45:34] new blood

[00:45:35] I mean Siba Van He

[00:45:36] has been a guy

[00:45:37] that has been

[00:45:38] on these expeditions

[00:45:39] with you

[00:45:40] you know

[00:45:41] you've connected

[00:45:42] with this

[00:45:43] young climber

[00:45:44] who told me

[00:45:45] he grew up

[00:45:46] with posters of you

[00:45:47] on the wall

[00:45:48] kind of situations

[00:45:49] so tell me about

[00:45:50] that selectivity

[00:45:51] and

[00:45:52] you know

[00:45:53] again like

[00:45:54] the fun loving

[00:45:55] the calm

[00:45:56] what do you need

[00:45:57] out of your

[00:45:58] climbing partners

[00:45:59] and then we'll get to

[00:46:00] why Sean is the guy

[00:46:01] that's your repeat

[00:46:02] brother

[00:46:03] so to speak

[00:46:04] it's not really

[00:46:05] like whoever

[00:46:06] we are going

[00:46:07] on expedition

[00:46:08] is not

[00:46:09] it's not a fine

[00:46:10] selection

[00:46:11] of people

[00:46:12] that we make

[00:46:13] with

[00:46:14] with Siba and Seb

[00:46:15] it kind of

[00:46:16] happened naturally

[00:46:17] I've been admiring

[00:46:18] Seb and Siba

[00:46:19] through the evolution

[00:46:20] and our Belgium

[00:46:21] so we know them

[00:46:22] quite well already

[00:46:23] so at some point

[00:46:24] because we're kind of

[00:46:25] evolving in the same direction

[00:46:26] it makes sense

[00:46:27] to connect

[00:46:28] and share

[00:46:29] the things together

[00:46:30] and actually

[00:46:31] yeah

[00:46:32] they've been

[00:46:33] really really nice

[00:46:34] but

[00:46:35] some of the people

[00:46:36] have come up

[00:46:37] sometimes

[00:46:38] sometimes

[00:46:39] they're not

[00:46:40] sometimes

[00:46:41] sometimes it's funny

[00:46:42] because you

[00:46:43] you go on an expedition

[00:46:44] with a person

[00:46:45] you know

[00:46:46] not so well

[00:46:47] and

[00:46:48] and

[00:46:49] sometimes it clicks

[00:46:50] right away

[00:46:51] or sometimes

[00:46:52] it takes

[00:46:53] it feels like

[00:46:54] it takes almost

[00:46:55] one whole expedition

[00:46:56] to start to understand

[00:46:57] to be in the same level

[00:46:58] and be able

[00:46:59] to make jokes

[00:47:00] and they understand

[00:47:01] that they can bounce back

[00:47:02] and

[00:47:03] it's funny

[00:47:04] sometimes

[00:47:05] it takes a little while

[00:47:06] to get tuned

[00:47:07] and then after

[00:47:08] if you go on another trip

[00:47:09] you are like

[00:47:10] it's easy

[00:47:11] and

[00:47:12] I feel like that maybe

[00:47:13] happened with Siba

[00:47:14] yeah

[00:47:15] also Siba changed

[00:47:16] yeah

[00:47:17] Sibs has evolved

[00:47:18] a lot

[00:47:19] and

[00:47:20] Sibs

[00:47:21] he's quite hard on himself

[00:47:24] and

[00:47:25] yeah

[00:47:26] I think he's been working on that

[00:47:27] yeah so

[00:47:28] and also last trip

[00:47:29] the first trip

[00:47:30] we did

[00:47:31] together

[00:47:32] was a little bit more challenging

[00:47:33] although this trip

[00:47:34] was also challenging

[00:47:35] but we

[00:47:36] somehow

[00:47:38] everything rolled

[00:47:39] but

[00:47:40] I think we met a little bit more

[00:47:41] our limits

[00:47:42] last time

[00:47:43] yeah

[00:47:44] yeah

[00:47:45] no you

[00:47:46] you threw him into the fire

[00:47:47] although it was a cold

[00:47:48] a very cold fire

[00:47:49] but

[00:47:50] but yeah

[00:47:51] because I talked to him

[00:47:52] you know

[00:47:53] about that first expedition

[00:47:54] with you guys

[00:47:55] at length

[00:47:56] and

[00:47:57] and he put out some media

[00:47:58] about it

[00:47:59] that was pretty

[00:48:00] soul-searching

[00:48:01] so it's

[00:48:02] not the best

[00:48:03] the great thing

[00:48:04] we see

[00:48:05] is

[00:48:06] is

[00:48:07] is hard with himself

[00:48:08] but he's really open

[00:48:09] his work

[00:48:10] is like

[00:48:11] it's a person

[00:48:12] can really have

[00:48:13] open conversation

[00:48:14] and deep conversation

[00:48:15] together

[00:48:16] so it's really

[00:48:17] really nice

[00:48:18] yeah

[00:48:19] it's nice to have people

[00:48:20] that you can do that

[00:48:21] on expedition

[00:48:22] with

[00:48:23] yeah

[00:48:24] so let's move

[00:48:25] to

[00:48:26] to Sean

[00:48:27] yeah

[00:48:28] you know

[00:48:29] this guy

[00:48:30] that's like

[00:48:31] you know

[00:48:32] you guys are attached at the hip

[00:48:33] as far as

[00:48:34] as far as again

[00:48:36] you seem

[00:48:37] to have

[00:48:38] tons in common

[00:48:39] but then

[00:48:40] you're also just these

[00:48:41] very unique

[00:48:42] people that I think

[00:48:43] comes through as well

[00:48:44] I mean

[00:48:45] there's no

[00:48:46] I don't think there's

[00:48:47] many people as unique

[00:48:48] as Sean

[00:48:49] in climbing

[00:48:50] or in the world

[00:48:51] frankly

[00:48:52] no

[00:48:53] he's just a

[00:48:54] very interesting

[00:48:55] and unique

[00:48:56] and fascinating

[00:48:57] individual

[00:48:58] so tell

[00:48:59] tell us your origin story

[00:49:00] with

[00:49:01] you know

[00:49:02] it's almost like a rom-com

[00:49:03] kind of thing

[00:49:04] but

[00:49:05] how did it come together

[00:49:06] and then we can talk about

[00:49:07] why you guys mesh so well

[00:49:09] actually the first time

[00:49:10] I

[00:49:11] I climbed

[00:49:12] on an

[00:49:13] artificial structure

[00:49:14] was

[00:49:15] there was an

[00:49:16] artificial structure

[00:49:17] in Brussels

[00:49:18] when I climbed there

[00:49:19] one of the first person

[00:49:20] I saw

[00:49:21] was Sean

[00:49:22] he was aiding

[00:49:23] he had made some

[00:49:24] nuts

[00:49:25] out of

[00:49:26] real nuts

[00:49:27] you know

[00:49:28] from like screws

[00:49:29] and he had a bunch of things

[00:49:30] and he was like

[00:49:31] with a ladder

[00:49:32] and on this structure

[00:49:33] he was like

[00:49:34] what is this guy doing

[00:49:35] maybe I was

[00:49:36] already

[00:49:37] climbing

[00:49:38] for real

[00:49:39] he was like

[00:49:40] doing things with ladder

[00:49:41] and like

[00:49:42] yeah

[00:49:43] and we grew up

[00:49:44] in

[00:49:45] actually in the same

[00:49:46] climbing gym

[00:49:47] quickly we connect

[00:49:48] through the wheel

[00:49:49] to

[00:49:50] to train really hard

[00:49:51] we do like session

[00:49:52] finishing at midnight

[00:49:53] we would push

[00:49:54] we would push so hard

[00:49:55] to the point

[00:49:56] that we could even do

[00:49:57] one

[00:49:58] one

[00:49:59] pull-up

[00:50:00] we would really

[00:50:01] like exhaust ourselves

[00:50:03] and then

[00:50:04] the first climbing trip

[00:50:05] I did

[00:50:06] was with him

[00:50:07] and we

[00:50:08] we connect also

[00:50:09] through the adventure

[00:50:10] doing these trips

[00:50:11] we

[00:50:12] we would like leave

[00:50:13] Brussels hitchhiking

[00:50:14] and

[00:50:15] we would not

[00:50:16] even know

[00:50:17] which crag

[00:50:18] we were going

[00:50:19] we were just like

[00:50:20] going to south

[00:50:21] we know there are some

[00:50:22] some crags

[00:50:23] in

[00:50:24] in south France

[00:50:25] and

[00:50:26] and we would like be

[00:50:27] on

[00:50:28] in the car

[00:50:29] and

[00:50:30] and they're getting dropped

[00:50:31] from here

[00:50:32] so let's go

[00:50:33] and climb there

[00:50:34] and then we'd

[00:50:35] go along like this

[00:50:36] and

[00:50:37] so we really

[00:50:38] found the connection

[00:50:39] to that

[00:50:40] to the adventure

[00:50:41] and I already

[00:50:42] had the guitar

[00:50:43] and

[00:50:44] he was not playing

[00:50:45] flute at the

[00:50:46] at the time

[00:50:47] but he was already

[00:50:48] singing because

[00:50:49] in his

[00:50:50] with

[00:50:51] because he has

[00:50:52] Irish culture

[00:50:53] in

[00:50:54] in his family

[00:50:55] he was used to singing

[00:50:56] and

[00:50:57] and so we

[00:50:58] we jammed a lot

[00:50:59] he was singing

[00:51:00] and we were

[00:51:01] in Seuss

[00:51:02] and we spent

[00:51:03] two weeks

[00:51:04] in Seuss

[00:51:05] and

[00:51:06] during the two weeks

[00:51:07] we only went down

[00:51:08] one time

[00:51:09] we climbed

[00:51:10] almost every day

[00:51:11] we had only

[00:51:12] one

[00:51:13] one rest day

[00:51:14] we were so psyched

[00:51:15] yeah

[00:51:16] and we would even go

[00:51:17] maybe we'd go down

[00:51:18] to

[00:51:19] to meet the guys

[00:51:20] at the campground

[00:51:21] and we'd bring a ladder

[00:51:22] and we were fixing

[00:51:23] the tree

[00:51:24] and we just

[00:51:25] camped

[00:51:26] without the feet

[00:51:27] we would do that

[00:51:28] all night

[00:51:29] and we were so psyched

[00:51:30] we were like

[00:51:31] luckily you didn't

[00:51:32] blow your elbows up

[00:51:33] at an early age

[00:51:34] yeah

[00:51:35] actually

[00:51:36] we were lucky I guess

[00:51:37] I remember

[00:51:38] first time

[00:51:39] I would go

[00:51:40] in his

[00:51:41] in his house

[00:51:42] and

[00:51:43] I'm sure

[00:51:44] the house

[00:51:45] where he has

[00:51:46] his stuff

[00:51:47] hasn't changed

[00:51:48] he had like

[00:51:49] posters of Rambo

[00:51:50] everywhere

[00:51:51] he loves

[00:51:52] Rambo and Rocky

[00:51:53] and all these

[00:51:54] like

[00:51:55] tough men

[00:51:56] thing

[00:51:58] that's amazing

[00:51:59] yeah

[00:52:00] it like makes total sense

[00:52:01] now

[00:52:02] actually

[00:52:03] that you say it

[00:52:04] it makes complete sense

[00:52:05] yeah

[00:52:06] and I'm sure the posters

[00:52:07] are still hanging up there

[00:52:08] yeah

[00:52:09] yeah

[00:52:10] that's awesome

[00:52:11] so if we fast forward

[00:52:12] then to

[00:52:13] you know

[00:52:14] to

[00:52:15] some of the climbs

[00:52:16] you've done

[00:52:17] even recently

[00:52:18] talk about what

[00:52:19] like he brings

[00:52:20] in your mind

[00:52:21] to the team

[00:52:22] as far as

[00:52:23] his ability

[00:52:24] to operate out there

[00:52:25] because

[00:52:26] it's

[00:52:27] you know

[00:52:28] talking about choosing your partners

[00:52:29] we can talk about personality

[00:52:30] and everything else

[00:52:31] but you also need someone

[00:52:32] who you can count on

[00:52:33] in a pinch

[00:52:34] and

[00:52:35] who can perform

[00:52:36] in those conditions

[00:52:37] that you've presented

[00:52:38] and that's

[00:52:39] where you get into

[00:52:40] sort of a rare

[00:52:41] you know

[00:52:42] group of people

[00:52:43] that excel at

[00:52:44] those things

[00:52:45] in those places

[00:52:46] so talk a little bit

[00:52:47] about him

[00:52:48] as far as what you count on him

[00:52:49] for when he's climbing

[00:52:50] I think

[00:52:51] what makes us a good team

[00:52:52] is that

[00:52:53] we have

[00:52:54] a lot of

[00:52:55] we have

[00:52:56] a lot of

[00:52:57] challenges

[00:52:58] and

[00:52:59] what makes us a good team

[00:53:00] is we are quite different

[00:53:01] and we complete each other

[00:53:02] a lot

[00:53:03] Sean

[00:53:04] like he could

[00:53:05] he could choose

[00:53:06] to climb a rotten pitch

[00:53:07] like

[00:53:08] or like a wet

[00:53:09] something wet

[00:53:10] or something icy

[00:53:11] because for him

[00:53:12] what matters

[00:53:13] is the challenge

[00:53:14] like for him

[00:53:15] he gets

[00:53:16] almost as much pleasure

[00:53:17] to climb

[00:53:18] a rotten

[00:53:19] pitch

[00:53:20] wet

[00:53:21] with rotten rock

[00:53:22] if he meets his limit

[00:53:23] then climbing a perfect splitter

[00:53:24] is a very interesting

[00:53:25] approach

[00:53:26] so he's a good guy

[00:53:27] to have

[00:53:28] when you have

[00:53:29] something

[00:53:30] really

[00:53:31] real there

[00:53:32] and it refreshes your mind

[00:53:33] that actually

[00:53:34] it's true

[00:53:35] the challenge is

[00:53:36] sometimes

[00:53:37] also what you're looking for

[00:53:38] you're not

[00:53:39] always looking

[00:53:40] for the best

[00:53:41] pitches

[00:53:42] and

[00:53:43] he's one of the rare guys

[00:53:44] I know

[00:53:45] when I knew him

[00:53:46] when he started to climb

[00:53:47] he

[00:53:48] he had a hard time

[00:53:49] to reach 6b

[00:53:50] like 510

[00:53:51] 511

[00:53:52] he worked

[00:53:53] he worked

[00:53:54] all the grades

[00:53:55] and me

[00:53:56] you know

[00:53:57] within 2 years

[00:53:58] I was already

[00:53:59] climbing 513

[00:54:00] he

[00:54:01] like each step

[00:54:02] it took him

[00:54:03] a lot of work

[00:54:04] and

[00:54:05] and

[00:54:06] like still now

[00:54:07] he's

[00:54:08] like I feel like now

[00:54:09] he's at his peak

[00:54:10] like he's able to

[00:54:11] he's been able

[00:54:12] to keep pushing

[00:54:13] his level

[00:54:14] all the way

[00:54:15] through all the years

[00:54:16] yeah

[00:54:17] it's pretty impressive

[00:54:18] also what connects us

[00:54:19] a lot

[00:54:20] is that we

[00:54:21] we have

[00:54:22] I think a similar

[00:54:23] vision with climbing

[00:54:24] at the same time

[00:54:25] as being

[00:54:26] different

[00:54:27] yeah

[00:54:28] I don't know how

[00:54:29] I had to explain

[00:54:30] but yeah

[00:54:31] let's just do one last comment

[00:54:32] on

[00:54:33] on

[00:54:34] you know

[00:54:35] your feelings

[00:54:36] or

[00:54:37] what you've

[00:54:38] what you've talked about

[00:54:39] with him

[00:54:40] about these

[00:54:41] recent

[00:54:42] huge Patagonia

[00:54:43] solos

[00:54:44] of the last

[00:54:45] couple years

[00:54:46] the one most recently

[00:54:47] that even

[00:54:48] I don't know

[00:54:49] it hasn't even gotten

[00:54:50] I don't think it's gotten

[00:54:51] sort of the notice

[00:54:52] that it

[00:54:53] that it needs yet

[00:54:54] but

[00:54:55] but yeah

[00:54:56] what's your comment on that

[00:54:57] I mean

[00:54:58] I joked about this being a rom-com

[00:54:59] you know

[00:55:00] a romantic comedy

[00:55:01] kind of set up

[00:55:02] between the two of you guys

[00:55:03] but

[00:55:04] you know

[00:55:05] you obviously

[00:55:06] encourage him

[00:55:07] and

[00:55:08] love that he finds his adventure

[00:55:09] but do you ever get

[00:55:10] worried about him as well

[00:55:11] but so

[00:55:12] and aside from that

[00:55:13] but just

[00:55:14] what are your comments on

[00:55:15] on what he's done

[00:55:16] on those

[00:55:17] those solos

[00:55:18] because it's

[00:55:19] like

[00:55:20] it's mind-blowing

[00:55:21] in so many different ways

[00:55:22] no

[00:55:23] it's really impressive

[00:55:24] he's able to move

[00:55:25] really well

[00:55:26] in those terrain

[00:55:27] and

[00:55:28] and to have the

[00:55:29] the willingness

[00:55:30] to push alone

[00:55:31] I find it's quite impressive

[00:55:32] I

[00:55:33] I wouldn't be able to do that

[00:55:34] no

[00:55:35] it's not my

[00:55:36] my thing

[00:55:37] but also like

[00:55:38] for me

[00:55:39] what's impressing me is that

[00:55:40] okay

[00:55:41] we just came down from

[00:55:42] 18 days on this wall

[00:55:43] you know

[00:55:44] we

[00:55:45] we hide all our gear out

[00:55:46] and

[00:55:47] and I think less than two weeks later

[00:55:48] you know

[00:55:49] you

[00:55:50] you didn't recover yet

[00:55:51] you know

[00:55:52] after two weeks

[00:55:53] after being 18 days

[00:55:54] you like

[00:55:55] go for something like that

[00:55:56] like just to even

[00:55:57] envision

[00:55:58] going for such thing

[00:55:59] after

[00:56:00] having done such a cool

[00:56:01] I mean

[00:56:02] such a fine objective

[00:56:03] and spending 18 days

[00:56:04] it's

[00:56:05] it's pretty

[00:56:06] impressive

[00:56:07] not only the

[00:56:08] the recovery

[00:56:09] he had

[00:56:10] but also

[00:56:11] to keep the motivation

[00:56:12] to want to push

[00:56:13] you know

[00:56:14] so

[00:56:15] so much

[00:56:16] such

[00:56:17] so quickly after

[00:56:18] this time

[00:56:19] in Patagonia

[00:56:20] he actually broke his elbow

[00:56:21] just a couple months

[00:56:22] before we

[00:56:23] we left

[00:56:24] so he saw a specialist

[00:56:25] and he

[00:56:26] the guy was not sure

[00:56:27] whether he could come

[00:56:28] and then

[00:56:29] but then they decide

[00:56:30] let's make a scan

[00:56:31] just you know

[00:56:32] a week before

[00:56:33] you go to Patagonia

[00:56:34] then we will see if

[00:56:35] the

[00:56:36] if the bone has healed

[00:56:37] yet

[00:56:38] or not

[00:56:39] and

[00:56:40] on the scan

[00:56:41] the bone didn't heal

[00:56:42] Sean sent the scan

[00:56:43] he said

[00:56:44] ah

[00:56:45] the doctor

[00:56:46] said that it's better

[00:56:47] to go

[00:56:48] but then he still came

[00:56:49] and then

[00:56:50] and then after the 18 days

[00:56:51] on the wall

[00:56:52] he said

[00:56:53] ah

[00:56:54] it looks like

[00:56:55] now my bone

[00:56:56] my elbow

[00:56:57] is fixed

[00:56:58] now it seems like

[00:56:59] the time on the wall

[00:57:00] was perfect for rehab

[00:57:01] yeah

[00:57:02] there's a certain

[00:57:03] like Rambo toughness

[00:57:04] in that

[00:57:05] oh yeah

[00:57:06] yeah

[00:57:07] the first

[00:57:08] the first Rambo movie

[00:57:09] is the one

[00:57:10] where he sews himself up

[00:57:11] with the needle

[00:57:12] um

[00:57:13] in his arm

[00:57:14] so there you go

[00:57:15] yeah

[00:57:16] he's uh

[00:57:17] he's just so psyched

[00:57:18] and so hungry

[00:57:19] for more

[00:57:20] for always

[00:57:21] more

[00:57:22] and

[00:57:23] and

[00:57:24] yeah

[00:57:25] I

[00:57:26] I get worried

[00:57:27] yeah

[00:57:28] that something would happen

[00:57:29] because he pushes

[00:57:30] and alone

[00:57:31] sometimes I see him

[00:57:32] you know like

[00:57:33] walking on the glacier

[00:57:34] with no ropes

[00:57:35] and things

[00:57:36] but

[00:57:37] he's also very comfortable

[00:57:38] and

[00:57:39] and you know

[00:57:40] it's his choice

[00:57:41] you know

[00:57:42] to push it

[00:57:43] so

[00:57:44] yeah

[00:57:45] you know

[00:57:46] we all have

[00:57:47] our partners and friends

[00:57:48] who

[00:57:49] whose risk assessment

[00:57:50] is different than ours

[00:57:51] yeah

[00:57:52] and we've been enough

[00:57:53] in this place

[00:57:54] to understand

[00:57:55] what's

[00:57:56] what can happen

[00:57:57] yeah

[00:57:58] yeah

[00:57:59] well

[00:58:00] let me ask you a little bit

[00:58:01] about that

[00:58:02] um

[00:58:03] you know

[00:58:04] again

[00:58:05] you're so characterized

[00:58:06] by just

[00:58:07] fun

[00:58:08] and all these interviews

[00:58:09] like focus on that

[00:58:10] but obviously

[00:58:11] you

[00:58:12] you operate in a world

[00:58:13] that can

[00:58:14] I also read this quote

[00:58:15] and it was

[00:58:16] it was obviously

[00:58:17] translated

[00:58:18] which made it really

[00:58:19] an interesting read

[00:58:20] when

[00:58:21] because it looked like

[00:58:22] it had been like

[00:58:23] Google translated

[00:58:24] so

[00:58:25] but it caught

[00:58:26] it said that you

[00:58:27] um

[00:58:28] you are

[00:58:29] this is the quote

[00:58:30] highly sensitive

[00:58:31] and an incurable idealist

[00:58:32] oh

[00:58:33] I don't know how you feel

[00:58:34] about that assessment

[00:58:35] ideally

[00:58:36] I'm pretty positive

[00:58:37] usually I'm

[00:58:38] okay

[00:58:39] yeah

[00:58:40] if I

[00:58:41] I'm pretty positive

[00:58:42] in general

[00:58:43] I'm pretty sensitive

[00:58:44] I don't know

[00:58:45] if you say so

[00:58:46] let's find

[00:58:47] let's find out

[00:58:48] if I can make you cry

[00:58:49] no um

[00:58:50] so

[00:58:51] you know

[00:58:52] and then we

[00:58:53] you've painted this picture

[00:58:54] of these two kids

[00:58:55] uh

[00:58:56] essentially

[00:58:57] I don't know

[00:58:58] early 20s

[00:58:59] whatever

[00:59:00] kids

[00:59:01] acting like kids

[00:59:02] anyway out

[00:59:03] you know

[00:59:04] hitchhiking to unknown

[00:59:05] places

[00:59:06] in

[00:59:07] in Europe

[00:59:08] you're

[00:59:09] you're like

[00:59:10] ditching your

[00:59:11] your

[00:59:12] you're just

[00:59:13] like

[00:59:14] peacing out

[00:59:15] on those guys

[00:59:16] so

[00:59:17] you know

[00:59:18] just fun loving

[00:59:19] looking for adventure

[00:59:20] but I mean

[00:59:21] you do run up against

[00:59:22] you know

[00:59:23] having people pass away

[00:59:24] around you

[00:59:25] in

[00:59:26] in the mountains

[00:59:27] and

[00:59:28] and I don't know

[00:59:29] if you've had any

[00:59:30] close partners

[00:59:31] pass away

[00:59:32] in the hills

[00:59:33] but uh

[00:59:34] but you know

[00:59:35] is that also

[00:59:36] a way

[00:59:37] the music

[00:59:38] fits to

[00:59:39] confront that

[00:59:40] or

[00:59:41] is that

[00:59:42] a way

[00:59:43] you've been

[00:59:44] certainly around

[00:59:45] for things that have gone down

[00:59:46] down there

[00:59:47] what's your

[00:59:48] what's your sort of uh

[00:59:49] landscape look like

[00:59:50] when

[00:59:51] when facing

[00:59:52] those big dangers

[00:59:53] and the tragedies

[00:59:54] in the mountains

[00:59:55] I've changed

[00:59:56] I'm a little bit more

[00:59:57] sissy than I used to be

[00:59:58] like

[00:59:59] that's just getting old

[01:00:00] and it was interesting

[01:00:01] now because we

[01:00:02] so we climbed

[01:00:03] Riders on the Storm

[01:00:04] and we had climbed it

[01:00:05] 18 years ago

[01:00:06] yeah

[01:00:07] and I remember

[01:00:08] the climb to be

[01:00:09] casual

[01:00:10] and

[01:00:11] and now I was like

[01:00:12] fuck

[01:00:13] like some people

[01:00:14] were like run out

[01:00:15] and I was like

[01:00:16] oh fuck

[01:00:17] and

[01:00:18] I think I'm

[01:00:19] somehow I'm more scared

[01:00:20] of dying

[01:00:21] yeah it's funny

[01:00:22] although

[01:00:23] it seems like

[01:00:24] when you would be young

[01:00:25] you'd be more scared

[01:00:26] because you have

[01:00:27] so many

[01:00:28] so many more years

[01:00:29] ahead of you

[01:00:30] but um

[01:00:31] yeah

[01:00:32] I'm a little bit

[01:00:33] more careful

[01:00:34] and I think

[01:00:35] I have never had

[01:00:36] close partner

[01:00:37] dying

[01:00:38] but I have had

[01:00:39] experience

[01:00:40] and

[01:00:41] yeah you

[01:00:42] you realize

[01:00:43] it can really change

[01:00:44] your life

[01:00:45] and

[01:00:46] yeah when you have an injury

[01:00:47] that's not

[01:00:48] you're not able to recover

[01:00:49] completely

[01:00:50] and

[01:00:51] think so

[01:00:52] yeah

[01:00:53] I don't know exactly

[01:00:54] if that's the reason

[01:00:57] why maybe I'm a little

[01:00:58] more careful now

[01:00:59] or if

[01:01:00] yeah I'm not

[01:01:01] I'm not exactly sure

[01:01:03] sometimes I'm thinking

[01:01:04] also ah maybe I'm older

[01:01:05] you know it's like

[01:01:06] if I you

[01:01:07] I'm doing a high ball

[01:01:08] and I'm like

[01:01:09] extremely stiff

[01:01:10] maybe you're not gonna

[01:01:11] commit to that move

[01:01:12] because you feel stiff

[01:01:13] and you will land

[01:01:14] not as well

[01:01:15] um

[01:01:16] sometimes I feel like

[01:01:17] maybe the same

[01:01:18] it's like a feeling

[01:01:19] of your body being

[01:01:20] a little less young

[01:01:21] and then so you don't wanna

[01:01:22] take the risk of taking

[01:01:23] a massive whipper

[01:01:24] or

[01:01:25] you know

[01:01:26] on slap

[01:01:27] on some

[01:01:28] gear that might pull out

[01:01:29] or something

[01:01:30] yeah

[01:01:31] yeah also

[01:01:32] also I think one of

[01:01:33] the thing maybe is that

[01:01:34] when you've done a lot of things

[01:01:35] a lot of these things

[01:01:36] for so many years

[01:01:37] maybe you

[01:01:38] I'm still psyched

[01:01:39] to go on this trip

[01:01:40] and for me

[01:01:41] the psych comes also

[01:01:42] from the connection

[01:01:43] I get

[01:01:44] with this beautiful place

[01:01:45] and somehow you get

[01:01:46] the connection

[01:01:47] because you push yourself

[01:01:48] and then you connect

[01:01:49] with the elements and stuff

[01:01:50] but

[01:01:51] maybe because you do this

[01:01:52] you have been in this situation

[01:01:53] more than maybe

[01:01:54] you are less excited

[01:01:55] to commit to something

[01:01:56] that you're not controlling

[01:01:57] I remember

[01:01:58] first trip

[01:01:59] in Yosemite

[01:02:00] I had never placed a

[01:02:01] control

[01:02:02] I remember

[01:02:03] first trip

[01:02:04] in Yosemite

[01:02:05] I had never placed a

[01:02:06] I had never placed a

[01:02:07] cam and I was

[01:02:08] my first route

[01:02:09] was Rostrum

[01:02:10] and

[01:02:11] yeah

[01:02:12] it was

[01:02:13] I felt like

[01:02:14] really insecure

[01:02:15] and

[01:02:16] I didn't know

[01:02:17] if I placed

[01:02:18] well the cams

[01:02:19] but I was willing to

[01:02:20] I was

[01:02:21] yeah I was just going

[01:02:22] for it

[01:02:23] yeah

[01:02:24] I think

[01:02:25] if I would be in that

[01:02:26] situation now

[01:02:27] I would be much more

[01:02:28] cautious

[01:02:29] yeah

[01:02:30] and I think

[01:02:31] for that

[01:02:32] also I'm

[01:02:33] I evolve very differently

[01:02:34] from Sean

[01:02:35] I think

[01:02:36] he's been

[01:02:37] improving that skill

[01:02:38] all these years

[01:02:39] he's been

[01:02:40] like

[01:02:41] the only

[01:02:42] for him

[01:02:43] his main focus

[01:02:44] is working on

[01:02:45] fear control

[01:02:46] and

[01:02:47] meeting his limits

[01:02:48] on climbs

[01:02:49] that's what

[01:02:50] drives him

[01:02:51] so he would go to

[01:02:52] the Czech Republic

[01:02:53] where

[01:02:54] it's basically

[01:02:55] you're almost

[01:02:56] free soloing

[01:02:57] and you are always

[01:02:58] meeting your limits

[01:02:59] and sometimes

[01:03:00] you have to

[01:03:01] back up

[01:03:02] on some climbs

[01:03:03] or sometimes

[01:03:04] he really

[01:03:05] he's been

[01:03:06] really

[01:03:07] pushing this

[01:03:08] he's more interested

[01:03:09] in pushing in this

[01:03:10] than like

[01:03:11] actually pushing

[01:03:12] his physical skill

[01:03:13] to climb

[01:03:14] harder grades

[01:03:15] in sports climbing

[01:03:16] and stuff

[01:03:17] you know

[01:03:18] you talk about Sean

[01:03:19] he's like

[01:03:20] gets off an expedition

[01:03:21] and he's ready to go

[01:03:22] you come home

[01:03:23] you got your dog

[01:03:24] and

[01:03:25] you've got

[01:03:26] a life

[01:03:27] sort of

[01:03:28] that you wanted

[01:03:29] to kind of get back to

[01:03:30] so my question is

[01:03:31] kind of how

[01:03:32] you make it

[01:03:33] so you're not really

[01:03:34] interested in

[01:03:35] financially speaking

[01:03:36] I mean you've got

[01:03:37] your sponsorships

[01:03:38] you do

[01:03:39] I'm sure you do shows

[01:03:40] and things like that

[01:03:41] and you put it all together

[01:03:42] that's kind of boring

[01:03:43] but what about making

[01:03:44] you know

[01:03:45] the life outside

[01:03:46] of climbing work

[01:03:47] whether it's relationships

[01:03:48] having a home

[01:03:49] but then packing up

[01:03:50] and leaving

[01:03:51] so often

[01:03:52] year after year

[01:03:53] after year

[01:03:54] talk a little bit

[01:03:55] about

[01:03:56] like what

[01:03:57] your

[01:03:58] you know

[01:03:59] your balance

[01:04:00] between kind of

[01:04:01] a domestic

[01:04:02] situation is

[01:04:03] and going on

[01:04:04] these expeditions

[01:04:05] and how that's changed

[01:04:06] over the years

[01:04:07] for 15 years

[01:04:08] basically since the time

[01:04:09] I finished my

[01:04:10] I finished my studies

[01:04:14] I was traveling

[01:04:17] non-stop

[01:04:18] I stopped maximum

[01:04:19] two months in one place

[01:04:20] for 15 years

[01:04:22] I would go

[01:04:23] either

[01:04:24] abroad

[01:04:25] outside Europe

[01:04:26] or if I was in Europe

[01:04:28] first I didn't have

[01:04:29] even a car

[01:04:30] I would hitchhike

[01:04:31] to a place

[01:04:32] where I could

[01:04:33] climbing

[01:04:34] then I had a van

[01:04:35] I would leave in my van

[01:04:36] and just cruise around

[01:04:37] different cracks

[01:04:38] and just climbing

[01:04:39] all the time

[01:04:40] and in these 15 years

[01:04:41] I realized

[01:04:42] that I

[01:04:43] in the last 5 years

[01:04:44] of the 15 years

[01:04:45] in the winter

[01:04:46] you know

[01:04:47] the daylight is so short

[01:04:48] that being in the van

[01:04:49] if I'm in Europe

[01:04:50] is quite grim

[01:04:51] because the days

[01:04:52] stop early

[01:04:53] and then you end up

[01:04:54] spending so much time

[01:04:55] in a really small place

[01:04:56] and somehow it feels like

[01:04:57] you know

[01:04:58] you're in a small town

[01:04:59] and you're not

[01:05:00] and somehow it feels like

[01:05:01] yeah

[01:05:02] you're a bit stuck

[01:05:03] also

[01:05:04] it feels

[01:05:05] maybe you get

[01:05:06] you're stuck in your mind

[01:05:07] also because

[01:05:08] of this situation

[01:05:09] but

[01:05:10] so I

[01:05:11] for the last 5 years

[01:05:12] every winter

[01:05:13] I would rent a place

[01:05:14] for a couple months

[01:05:15] in different places

[01:05:16] that I liked

[01:05:17] and the reason

[01:05:18] why I did that

[01:05:19] was also to

[01:05:20] see whether I liked

[01:05:21] the place

[01:05:22] and I would like

[01:05:23] to make a

[01:05:24] base camp there

[01:05:25] and because

[01:05:26] before that

[01:05:27] I had a place in Belgium

[01:05:28] which

[01:05:29] was a nice place

[01:05:30] and so I would just

[01:05:31] leave my stuff there

[01:05:32] and then

[01:05:33] all the trips

[01:05:34] I would fly out of Belgium

[01:05:35] come back to Belgium

[01:05:36] get my gear

[01:05:37] drop my gear

[01:05:38] say hello to my parents

[01:05:39] and then

[01:05:40] leave

[01:05:41] the only thing is

[01:05:42] in Belgium

[01:05:43] for me

[01:05:44] it's not a place

[01:05:45] that I

[01:05:46] I knew

[01:05:47] it's not a place

[01:05:48] where I want to live

[01:05:49] because

[01:05:50] it's a lot of bad weather

[01:05:51] Freire

[01:05:52] I know quite well

[01:05:53] and

[01:05:54] to be satisfied

[01:05:55] in Belgium

[01:05:56] I cannot stay more than 2 weeks

[01:05:57] before I want to

[01:05:58] find a different place

[01:05:59] to go climbing

[01:06:00] so

[01:06:01] I tried a different place

[01:06:02] finally

[01:06:03] like actually

[01:06:04] I think

[01:06:05] 6 years ago

[01:06:06] I

[01:06:07] I

[01:06:08] I rent a place

[01:06:09] in France

[01:06:10] in the

[01:06:11] Brienzon area

[01:06:12] and

[01:06:13] I really enjoy it

[01:06:14] it's great for

[01:06:15] all outdoor activity

[01:06:16] and

[01:06:17] it's in the middle of the mountain

[01:06:18] there is a lot of rock climbing

[01:06:19] all year round

[01:06:20] and

[01:06:21] yeah

[01:06:22] I fell in love with this place

[01:06:23] and so I chose to

[01:06:24] base myself here

[01:06:25] and

[01:06:26] yeah

[01:06:27] I feel really lucky

[01:06:28] to

[01:06:29] to live here

[01:06:30] because

[01:06:31] it's a place that I can be

[01:06:32] happy to

[01:06:33] also

[01:06:34] if I

[01:06:35] if I

[01:06:36] if I cannot travel for a year

[01:06:37] I can be happy to

[01:06:38] to be here

[01:06:39] surrounded by nature

[01:06:40] so

[01:06:41] really paradise

[01:06:42] and

[01:06:43] yeah

[01:06:44] I'm really lucky

[01:06:45] I could

[01:06:46] choose

[01:06:47] the place

[01:06:48] yeah

[01:06:49] this place to live

[01:06:50] it's my base camp

[01:06:51] yeah

[01:06:52] now

[01:06:53] you know what about some of the other stuff

[01:06:54] that goes with

[01:06:55] domesticity

[01:06:56] you know

[01:06:57] there's a commitment to getting a dog

[01:06:58] and then also like

[01:06:59] you know

[01:07:00] one thing about

[01:07:01] expedition climbers

[01:07:02] and

[01:07:03] long long time climbers

[01:07:04] is then

[01:07:05] obviously relationships

[01:07:06] can be

[01:07:07] fraught

[01:07:08] and

[01:07:09] sometimes difficult

[01:07:10] or put aside

[01:07:11] for a really long time

[01:07:12] you know

[01:07:13] and it's funny because

[01:07:14] you know

[01:07:15] this thing with John

[01:07:16] and

[01:07:17] my rom-com joke

[01:07:18] is that

[01:07:19] I remember

[01:07:20] you know

[01:07:21] in my 20s

[01:07:22] like

[01:07:23] thinking that

[01:07:24] and it wasn't

[01:07:25] you know

[01:07:26] any sort of homosexual way

[01:07:27] or anything like that

[01:07:28] but it was like

[01:07:29] I got these guys

[01:07:30] like I'm good

[01:07:31] you know

[01:07:32] I got these dudes

[01:07:33] and they're sort of like

[01:07:34] my crew

[01:07:35] and

[01:07:36] like

[01:07:37] it'd be great to have

[01:07:38] a girlfriend

[01:07:39] but I can live without one

[01:07:40] because I got these dudes

[01:07:41] like

[01:07:42] where does that part of

[01:07:43] domesticity

[01:07:44] fit in

[01:07:45] with

[01:07:46] your lifestyle

[01:07:47] over the years

[01:07:48] maintaining that kind of thing

[01:07:49] and if it's important to you

[01:07:50] and

[01:07:51] what you've got going on now

[01:07:52] yeah

[01:07:53] it's funny

[01:07:54] because

[01:07:55] it has changed

[01:07:56] I had

[01:07:57] a few different relationships

[01:07:58] since I started climbing

[01:07:59] obviously

[01:08:00] and now

[01:08:01] I'm in a relationship

[01:08:02] for three years

[01:08:03] and I just got married

[01:08:04] in September

[01:08:05] but

[01:08:06] so it's working out

[01:08:07] yeah

[01:08:08] it's working out

[01:08:09] yeah

[01:08:10] but it's funny

[01:08:11] because the first

[01:08:12] and it wasn't Sean

[01:08:13] you didn't marry Sean

[01:08:14] no

[01:08:15] okay cool

[01:08:16] that would be an incredible story

[01:08:19] probably the person

[01:08:20] maybe I slept

[01:08:21] the most

[01:08:22] with

[01:08:23] the most

[01:08:24] amazing

[01:08:25] either in a portage

[01:08:26] or a tent

[01:08:27] right

[01:08:28] yeah

[01:08:29] exactly

[01:08:30] but

[01:08:31] no

[01:08:32] it's funny

[01:08:33] because it's evolved

[01:08:34] through my

[01:08:35] climbing career

[01:08:36] because

[01:08:37] you know

[01:08:38] maybe at the beginning

[01:08:39] you know

[01:08:40] I was a motivated climber

[01:08:41] but it was not so clear

[01:08:42] that it was really my

[01:08:43] you know

[01:08:44] my career

[01:08:45] also I was not as successful

[01:08:46] financially

[01:08:47] so

[01:08:48] also with parents

[01:08:49] they

[01:08:50] thought for the first

[01:08:51] you know

[01:08:52] I was not going to get

[01:08:53] a real job

[01:08:54] in the US

[01:08:55] so

[01:08:56] when are you going to

[01:08:57] find a real job

[01:08:58] because I was not

[01:08:59] earning a lot of money

[01:09:00] and

[01:09:01] for the girlfriends

[01:09:02] the same

[01:09:03] like

[01:09:04] so

[01:09:05] they

[01:09:06] always thought

[01:09:07] at the beginning

[01:09:08] this first year

[01:09:09] that they could

[01:09:10] change me

[01:09:11] so

[01:09:12] I did this

[01:09:13] but

[01:09:14] eventually

[01:09:15] I would change

[01:09:16] and be

[01:09:17] a little bit more

[01:09:18] present

[01:09:19] and

[01:09:20] yeah

[01:09:21] so

[01:09:22] when

[01:09:23] you

[01:09:24] when

[01:09:25] you

[01:09:26] change

[01:09:27] the

[01:09:28] year

[01:09:29] or

[01:09:30] the

[01:09:31] year

[01:09:32] you

[01:09:33] change

[01:09:34] I

[01:09:35] think

[01:09:36] that

[01:09:37] you

[01:09:38] you

[01:09:39] are

[01:09:40] a

[01:09:41] great

[01:09:42] climber

[01:09:43] ok

[01:09:44] I

[01:09:45] didn't

[01:09:46] know

[01:09:47] that

[01:09:48] it

[01:09:49] was

[01:09:50] forgetting the other person, whether you want it or not.

[01:09:53] And so in a relationship, I think it's never too healthy to do too many times

[01:10:00] being away for more than a month and a half.

[01:10:02] I do it still, but I try not to do it too much.

[01:10:06] Yeah, right.

[01:10:07] Yeah, it's challenging for the partner.

[01:10:10] Of course, if you are going and you are in the mountain and you only see hairy men,

[01:10:15] you're fine.

[01:10:16] When you get back, you are psyched to see your partner.

[01:10:21] But for the partner, it's quite tough.

[01:10:24] But I find a month and a half is kind of the limit where they are still able to

[01:10:30] stay connected with you.

[01:10:32] Yeah, interesting.

[01:10:33] You start to worry after that.

[01:10:35] Yeah, yeah.

[01:10:36] They start to define their way.

[01:10:38] And then I really think it's some limitation of the brain that somehow starts to forget.

[01:10:46] Right.

[01:10:47] Yeah, I mean, it's important to talk about maturity in that sense too.

[01:10:51] I mean, you waited a while and be mature, both people, I think,

[01:10:56] to understand what you're talking about in a lot of ways.

[01:10:59] Exactly.

[01:11:00] Yeah.

[01:11:00] So basically, what I'm getting at is despite all your dancing on glaciers and things,

[01:11:05] you have matured, Nico, which is good to hear.

[01:11:10] Yeah, yeah.

[01:11:13] She's also quite crazy.

[01:11:15] Okay, perfect.

[01:11:18] Well, congratulations.

[01:11:19] Yeah, thank you.

[01:11:21] Let's move into the music a little bit more because it's like part of your media.

[01:11:27] It's this kind of almost like side thing, but it's clear that it's super integrated

[01:11:32] into your life, into the way you think about things, even the way you think about climbing,

[01:11:36] I think.

[01:11:37] I just interviewed, it's not out yet, but I just interviewed this guy named Smith Curry,

[01:11:42] who's a super hot, involved session, dobro, and lap steel, and guitar player in Nashville.

[01:11:49] Thousands and thousands of records he's played on.

[01:11:51] He happens to also be this very accomplished climber.

[01:11:54] Oh, wow, cool.

[01:11:55] But in his life, he put music first, and it's his career, and it's his life.

[01:12:01] It's a really fun interview, and he's a really cool guy.

[01:12:04] You've gone sort of the opposite direction in the sense that climbing is the most important

[01:12:08] thing, and the music informs that.

[01:12:12] I mean, you've been asked this question, I know, a number of times.

[01:12:16] Maybe you have a glib answer, or maybe you've thought about it deeply being a highly sensitive

[01:12:21] and incurable idealist.

[01:12:23] Where does the music fit in philosophically beyond just something that can keep your spirits

[01:12:28] up when you're sitting in a portal ledge?

[01:12:32] Yeah, I think when you're on expedition like that, you need often something that refresh

[01:12:39] yourself and to understand that the real reason why you're there is just to enjoy this

[01:12:45] place and to be in the place.

[01:12:47] And I feel like when you start playing, it brings you to a different place, and it connects

[01:12:55] you to your team.

[01:12:56] And then you're able to step back a little bit on the severity of the situation and just

[01:13:02] realize that you're there to have fun.

[01:13:06] And that's already amazing to be up there, even if you don't succeed what you're doing.

[01:13:13] I play a little bit of music myself.

[01:13:15] Look, there's my corner.

[01:13:16] Oh, yeah.

[01:13:17] Nice.

[01:13:19] Yeah, mandolin.

[01:13:20] There's a Les Paul right there.

[01:13:23] Anyway, you can pursue music and particularly an instrument, let's say, like you pursue

[01:13:31] climbing where it's like...

[01:13:33] And I think in the beginning, you kind of have to be like this to get proficient.

[01:13:37] You know, I want to do this piece and I want to play this song because it's harder and

[01:13:41] the way you pursue a climbing goal.

[01:13:45] Where is that in your life?

[01:13:46] Are you sort of a recreationalist?

[01:13:49] Do you sit and work on your instruments when you're not climbing?

[01:13:52] Where does it fit in your life?

[01:13:54] We see you on a portal ledge playing your instrument, but what about in your daily life?

[01:13:59] Where does music fit in your pursuit of instruments?

[01:14:02] I'm not a kind of person that will decide I will play two hours every day.

[01:14:07] I'm really like...

[01:14:08] And also in climbing, I'm not very structured.

[01:14:11] It just kind of comes and goes.

[01:14:13] And sometimes I don't play for six months and sometimes I will play two hours for a

[01:14:18] couple of months or...

[01:14:19] I started playing when I was 10 and then when I was a teenager, it was really my main focus.

[01:14:24] I played a lot.

[01:14:25] And then at the period where I played a lot, a lot.

[01:14:28] Also, I didn't...

[01:14:30] I don't have any really academic background.

[01:14:32] So I do everything by ear.

[01:14:35] So it's easy for me to join anybody playing.

[01:14:37] And this is actually what motivates me most, to have somebody else and I just jam with.

[01:14:42] And for me, it's pretty easy to join and to also hear a song and directly play it.

[01:14:48] But yeah, I'm a bit lazy.

[01:14:50] I wish I would be a little bit more disciplined sometimes.

[01:14:53] Also, because with climbing, the dexterity of the fingers is...

[01:14:58] Sure.

[01:14:59] If you're not playing often, you tend to get a bit more rigid and stuff.

[01:15:03] But somehow I always thought a good musician is not somebody that makes

[01:15:10] amazing... something really fast.

[01:15:12] Like it's more important to just hit the notes, the right notes.

[01:15:17] And so that's how I see my possibility of evolution in music.

[01:15:24] Because dexterity-wise, obviously, I would never be able to be like so amazing.

[01:15:30] But it doesn't matter.

[01:15:33] Yeah, it's interesting because Smith and I talked about that exact thing of his...

[01:15:37] I mean, it's his living.

[01:15:38] Like it's his bread and butter and how climbing can be...

[01:15:41] Not only does it just stiffen his fingers up, but he's injured his fingers

[01:15:45] to almost not being able to play.

[01:15:48] And suddenly missing out on basically what's putting food on the table

[01:15:53] has always been a worry of his.

[01:15:54] And I've felt it too.

[01:15:56] When I'm climbing hard, I can't play nearly as well as when I've been...

[01:16:00] If I'm lazy with climbing, then I'm better on my instrument kind of a thing.

[01:16:05] So it also seems like it's a bit of a passport to the community for you.

[01:16:11] You're talking about being in Red Rocks and playing your guitar

[01:16:14] and walking up to a fire or whatever else.

[01:16:16] Oh yeah, definitely.

[01:16:17] And have you found that around the world?

[01:16:19] Yeah.

[01:16:20] Yeah, because home music, like playing in your kitchen or whatever,

[01:16:24] isn't such a big culture here in the United States.

[01:16:29] But when I've gone to places like Chile and some other countries,

[01:16:34] whipping out instruments with guests and things like that is a pretty common thing.

[01:16:38] Have you found that around the world as well?

[01:16:40] Yeah, that's what I actually enjoy the most.

[01:16:44] I'm not too much of like...

[01:16:45] I don't like to have all the eyes on me.

[01:16:48] But I like to join some other people and just...

[01:16:50] Yeah, yeah.

[01:16:51] But yeah, for me, this is like the thing I enjoy the most in music

[01:16:56] is to play for other people.

[01:16:58] You know, when we do talks about our adventure,

[01:17:02] I don't really like talking to people.

[01:17:05] I prefer...

[01:17:06] I much prefer...

[01:17:07] I mean, no, it's not the thing I prefer...

[01:17:09] An hour and a half of torture right now.

[01:17:11] It's not the thing I prefer.

[01:17:12] I much prefer playing music, you know, to get the energy going.

[01:17:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[01:17:16] Sure.

[01:17:17] No, I didn't mean that I...

[01:17:19] I know, I'm joking.

[01:17:21] You've been super sweet.

[01:17:23] But one of the time, like on expedition, I always play a lot of music.

[01:17:29] That's...

[01:17:30] On trips, I always play a lot of music.

[01:17:32] And somehow it's also a way for me to process my emotion and to get more inspiration.

[01:17:38] Because all these emotions...

[01:17:39] When you're on an expedition, it brings up some emotion

[01:17:43] because you have a bit of anxiety because you are facing this risk, this risk.

[01:17:47] And also you are surrounded by nature in such a high level of beauty

[01:17:53] that somehow, yeah, it creates more inspiration.

[01:17:57] And you're also disconnected from anything.

[01:17:59] So instead of getting on your phone, you'd be getting on the guitar probably.

[01:18:04] Talking about like not practicing or not playing for a serious amount of time,

[01:18:08] I'm the same way.

[01:18:09] And I think of all the fucking time I wasted on the phone

[01:18:13] when I could have picked up my guitar, you know.

[01:18:16] But it's hard to differentiate.

[01:18:19] So yeah, it must feel cool to just...

[01:18:21] That's it.

[01:18:22] That's your entertainment when you're out there.

[01:18:24] Yeah, yeah, it is.

[01:18:27] And then having Sean that also now has the flute and the harmonica and singing,

[01:18:33] it's cool.

[01:18:34] Because also then we meet other people in the mountains

[01:18:37] and we can throw a concert and that's like, whoa.

[01:18:40] Yeah, you'd go to like a refuge

[01:18:42] and people are a bit stressed about their next day climb

[01:18:45] and you like bust out the instrument and everybody relaxes.

[01:18:49] And yeah, it's pretty cool.

[01:18:51] Except for the one guy.

[01:18:53] The one guy that's like, shut the fuck up.

[01:18:54] He wants to sleep early.

[01:18:56] Exactly.

[01:18:59] But have you ever like destroyed,

[01:19:01] completely destroyed like a guitar or mandolin on a wall?

[01:19:04] Because that's what I always think.

[01:19:05] I'm like, how do they do that without like completely wrecking those instruments?

[01:19:09] I cracked a few and then all of them get beat up.

[01:19:15] So they don't end up sounding as well as they sound at first.

[01:19:19] But yeah, it's okay.

[01:19:23] It's well worth it.

[01:19:24] Yeah.

[01:19:26] I, the thing you were saying about like wondering

[01:19:29] whether you should bring an instrument on the expedition

[01:19:31] and sometimes thinking like, what the fuck?

[01:19:34] We are carrying already so much gear.

[01:19:36] Like it, every time it comes to my mind wondering,

[01:19:40] should I bring it or not?

[01:19:41] And I've always brought it and every time it was well worth it.

[01:19:45] Yeah.

[01:19:46] So I have, I try to remember myself every time

[01:19:49] that it was worth it last time and yeah, bring it.

[01:19:52] Yeah.

[01:19:54] I've had the same debate just going on like a European road trip,

[01:19:57] you know, where you're either hitchhiking or doing public transport.

[01:20:02] And you're, you know, because I always joke that like

[01:20:04] your luggage is sort of like your child.

[01:20:06] Like, you know, especially when you're traveling in cities,

[01:20:09] it's like your first thought is like, what do I do with my pack?

[01:20:13] Like I'm here, I got to get to the hostel and secure my pack.

[01:20:17] And so I'm always like, well, do I need to also drag this dumb guitar

[01:20:20] around with me or whatever?

[01:20:21] And it's the same debate, you know, because it's like,

[01:20:24] it's just a pain in the butt.

[01:20:26] Even when you're just lugging stuff on and off buses in Chile or whatever

[01:20:30] to have an instrument with you.

[01:20:31] But then you probably meet somebody that plays a guitar

[01:20:34] and wants to check your guitar and he starts to play like something amazing

[01:20:37] and then you're like, wow.

[01:20:38] Yeah.

[01:20:38] And then yeah, it opens some, so many doors.

[01:20:41] Yeah.

[01:20:41] Yeah.

[01:20:42] It totally does.

[01:20:44] I even bought one in Bariloche when I was stuck there for a while.

[01:20:47] Yeah.

[01:20:48] So I remember in Pakistan, it was amazing.

[01:20:50] We couldn't communicate to the guys in the village,

[01:20:54] like the last village from where we hiked.

[01:20:56] And you throw the instrument and people are dancing.

[01:20:59] And you see that they are like living music in such an intensive way.

[01:21:05] It opens so many doors.

[01:21:08] It's like a universal language.

[01:21:11] Yeah, totally.

[01:21:12] And that's what I mean about this culture of like, I don't know.

[01:21:15] I don't think we can get that reaction out of modern people in a modern place

[01:21:20] the way you can get that reaction out of folks like that.

[01:21:24] Yeah.

[01:21:24] I mean, even in, I remember sitting in Cochimo, the town

[01:21:28] where you go before you go up the trail and that happened there,

[01:21:32] like around the kitchen table, all of a sudden,

[01:21:34] the guitar came out and who can play?

[01:21:36] And it didn't matter how bad you were or anything.

[01:21:39] You got like this admiration for just trying to pluck a tune out on this,

[01:21:45] ridiculously crummy guitar that you like,

[01:21:49] but everybody was passing around and doing the best they could.

[01:21:53] It was pretty cool.

[01:21:54] And that reaction, I just don't see it.

[01:21:56] Like I said, at least in modern society in the US, it's a little bit trickier.

[01:22:00] Yeah.

[01:22:00] For me, music is just energy and doesn't matter if you play well or not.

[01:22:05] Like you just give energy and share it.

[01:22:07] And then yeah, it's fun.

[01:22:10] You know, we're talking about musical inspiration.

[01:22:11] We can kind of seg into climbing inspiration.

[01:22:14] And you've just got done with this.

[01:22:16] The most recent sort of news is Riders on the Storm.

[01:22:20] This thing you went back to 18 years later to try to free,

[01:22:24] that's a longstanding project,

[01:22:27] something that maybe was in the back of your mind for a really, really long time.

[01:22:30] Why did you go back?

[01:22:32] And I kind of then want to lead into sort of what kind of projects,

[01:22:37] how these things do inspire you.

[01:22:39] And again, you've got this resume where you can be inspired by something in Pakistan

[01:22:44] that's a mighty expedition,

[01:22:46] or you can be inspired by something in Syriana

[01:22:50] that had your eye or this recovery drink again or Cobra cracker,

[01:22:57] whatever else it happens to be.

[01:22:58] But let's start with going back to that.

[01:23:01] Actually, we didn't go back because we had so many more experiences to do.

[01:23:06] And the first time we went up,

[01:23:09] we're not yet in the focus of absolutely trying to free the whole thing,

[01:23:12] but we already freed most of the thing.

[01:23:14] There was only, I think, what three, maybe three pitches

[01:23:20] we didn't free of the whole thing.

[01:23:22] But there was one pitch that wasn't free climbable.

[01:23:24] It was just a blank wall that you had to cross with pendulum.

[01:23:29] And I think it took maybe 18 years to realize how awesome this climb is

[01:23:34] and to realize this route is really exceptional quality,

[01:23:39] exceptional rock, beautiful quality pitch the whole way and quite sustained.

[01:23:46] And yeah, just actually Sibe,

[01:23:49] he had been the year before with Brett and Jacopo

[01:23:52] and he was looking for a team to go with him.

[01:23:55] And so he proposed to me and Sean

[01:23:58] because Brett and Jacopo, they couldn't go this season.

[01:24:02] And yeah, when he proposed me, I had other plans.

[01:24:05] I had plans to try to get stronger in climbing,

[01:24:09] like physically stronger.

[01:24:11] But yeah, it was too appealing to...

[01:24:15] So I say directly, yes, I will join.

[01:24:18] And then Sean decided to join too.

[01:24:21] And yeah, well worth it.

[01:24:27] It's also, I was also curious because it was our first experience

[01:24:31] climbing a big wall in the Alpine.

[01:24:32] We were like, you know, really young and we had no experience in the time.

[01:24:36] So we kept this really strong memory of this experience.

[01:24:40] And going back there, it was kind of a nice way to revive,

[01:24:43] to see the evolution and to revive these memories

[01:24:48] and also to enjoy the climb again, this beautiful route.

[01:24:53] Yeah.

[01:24:53] Of course, the weather was bad like most times in Patagonia.

[01:24:59] So we spent 18 days on the wall this time.

[01:25:02] And probably if we had perfect weather,

[01:25:03] maybe we could have pulled it out in three days, probably.

[01:25:08] Yeah, we are basically fighting the whole time with conditions.

[01:25:11] It was just masochist experience the whole time.

[01:25:15] Some days...

[01:25:16] So this time actually, the big difference compared to...

[01:25:20] So this is the fourth time we climbed the east face of the central tower of Torres del Paine.

[01:25:25] And this time, the big difference, we had the inReach.

[01:25:27] So it's a device where you can communicate and we can receive text.

[01:25:32] And we had weather forecast.

[01:25:34] And so sometimes when the weather was bad,

[01:25:36] like we could at least...

[01:25:39] You knew that something better would come up.

[01:25:41] But one thing that really helped us was more...

[01:25:45] Some days the weather was kind of shitty,

[01:25:48] but maybe not super shitty.

[01:25:49] And probably if you didn't have weather forecast,

[01:25:51] you would think, okay, no, I'm not going to waste my energy today

[01:25:54] because maybe tomorrow is going to be good.

[01:25:57] And this time we had the forecast.

[01:26:00] Sometimes we knew that there were like two days of bad weather after.

[01:26:04] So we knew that we had nothing to lose,

[01:26:07] to waste some energy,

[01:26:09] even if we couldn't do anything on a mediocre day.

[01:26:14] So we had some days where we didn't do a lot of progress,

[01:26:17] but we could do a bit of progress in really rough conditions.

[01:26:21] There was one pitch I climbed.

[01:26:25] I spent probably about two hours cleaning the pitch.

[01:26:29] The pitch was full of ice.

[01:26:31] And there was this crimp in the middle of the crux

[01:26:33] where the snow was funneling on the corner

[01:26:36] and like feeling the crimp every time.

[01:26:39] I was cleaning the crimp

[01:26:40] and then when I would get there,

[01:26:42] the crimp was full of snow and it was kind of sketchy.

[01:26:44] I didn't want to fall there.

[01:26:46] Was maybe like looking at 20 meters,

[01:26:48] like 60 foot whipper.

[01:26:50] Okay, it was a clean fall,

[01:26:51] but it's still 60 foot.

[01:26:56] Yeah, it's like this condition,

[01:26:59] like you would never choose to rock climb in this condition.

[01:27:03] You are climbing, you know what,

[01:27:06] freezing temperature or sometimes slightly above,

[01:27:09] is slightly less, but with winds.

[01:27:11] You are jogging to the pitch,

[01:27:12] you need to red point,

[01:27:13] your feet are already numb.

[01:27:15] Your fingers are numb.

[01:27:18] It was like, what?

[01:27:19] Yeah.

[01:27:20] I mean, look, you know, we talk about maturity,

[01:27:23] which is like code word for getting old.

[01:27:26] You know, like, are you ever up there?

[01:27:28] Like, what the fuck am I doing here still?

[01:27:30] Like, am I too old for this shit?

[01:27:32] Like, yeah, definitely.

[01:27:33] I'm too old for that shit.

[01:27:36] I can tell you that right now.

[01:27:38] But I think...

[01:27:38] You know, it's just in my mind, not in age wise.

[01:27:41] I think even when I was young,

[01:27:43] I would think the same, what the fuck?

[01:27:44] The only thing that motivates you is the...

[01:27:49] You know, you are with the team

[01:27:50] and you are like working towards the...

[01:27:53] Making this route free.

[01:27:55] And you know, there's two days of shit where you are cold.

[01:27:58] But anyway, you try.

[01:28:00] And strangely, like, you're able to climb often

[01:28:05] in conditions that are much...

[01:28:07] Quite cold and much worse than you could think you could.

[01:28:11] Yeah.

[01:28:12] It's impressive.

[01:28:13] Yeah.

[01:28:14] Is it just organic the way you sort of choose

[01:28:17] to spend your time?

[01:28:18] Because it's, you know, you could think of it

[01:28:20] as a bucket or a wallet or anything,

[01:28:22] but you only have so much to spend.

[01:28:25] So much to give for any given project.

[01:28:28] And you know, if you decide to do something

[01:28:30] that's very high end grade wise,

[01:28:33] it's going to also involve, you know,

[01:28:35] putting a whole bunch of other stuff aside

[01:28:36] to get in shape.

[01:28:38] The travel can be difficult.

[01:28:39] You know, throwing yourself at a place

[01:28:41] that has bad weather can be a gamble

[01:28:44] as far as your time.

[01:28:45] So is there any method to what inspires you?

[01:28:49] Or is it just things that come across your purview

[01:28:52] and organically make you psyched?

[01:28:55] Yeah, I think it's not too structured.

[01:28:58] Like I usually don't have a plan

[01:28:59] more than six months ahead.

[01:29:01] Often it's like the way I feel.

[01:29:03] Like if I'm feeling like I'm in a good...

[01:29:06] I'm getting into good shape,

[01:29:07] maybe I might envision something hard to try to do.

[01:29:12] Yeah, it depends on my motivation also.

[01:29:15] Maybe if I haven't...

[01:29:16] If I've been sports climbing a lot,

[01:29:19] maybe I will be motivated to go bouldering more.

[01:29:23] And then when I'm after bouldering a while,

[01:29:25] maybe I prefer to try to climb.

[01:29:28] But you see, it's just like motivation,

[01:29:29] just following the motivation and nothing more.

[01:29:33] It's not really...

[01:29:33] I don't have a plan like,

[01:29:35] okay, this year I do three months of this

[01:29:37] and then three months of this and three months.

[01:29:39] Yeah, no.

[01:29:40] Yeah.

[01:29:41] I know it would help to get stronger,

[01:29:43] to be a little bit more structured.

[01:29:45] Maybe I'll need to structure a bit more in the future,

[01:29:49] but yeah, so far I haven't really succeeded.

[01:29:53] Well, there's that fun thing.

[01:29:55] You know, you don't want to suck too much

[01:29:56] of the fun out of it either.

[01:29:57] Exactly.

[01:29:59] And you need to be motivated.

[01:30:01] The most important thing is to be motivated always.

[01:30:03] I find like to be successful in climbing,

[01:30:07] you need to really follow your motivation.

[01:30:10] This is the best way to get strong.

[01:30:14] Cool. Did we miss anything?

[01:30:15] Is there someone you want to shout out or anything else that...

[01:30:18] Did we miss a partner you want to shout out

[01:30:20] or anything like that?

[01:30:22] Wow, so many.

[01:30:24] I feel like time went so fast though.

[01:30:26] Yeah.

[01:30:27] Yeah, cool.

[01:30:28] Awesome.

[01:30:29] Yeah, I don't know.

[01:30:31] Okay, cool.

[01:30:32] That's a tough question.

[01:30:33] Will you play some music real quick?

[01:30:35] Yeah.

[01:30:35] You want to warm up for a second

[01:30:37] and then do something

[01:30:38] and you can just play us out.

[01:30:41] Yeah, yeah.

[01:30:42] So this is my latest guitar I brought on the world.

[01:30:46] It's a mini guitar.

[01:30:47] So the nice thing is the size of ukulele basically,

[01:30:51] but it plays like a guitar.

[01:30:53] It's just tuned a little higher.

[01:30:55] So maybe if you play with a guitar player,

[01:30:57] you need to adjust the chord

[01:30:58] so it fits to the chords the guy is playing.

[01:31:02] I also play the mandolin and I also play ukulele.

[01:31:05] I like to change instruments sometimes

[01:31:10] because I feel like if you play too much the same instrument,

[01:31:12] you get stuck in some patterns.

[01:31:14] So changing instruments kind of reopen your inspiration

[01:31:19] and it kind of breaks the habits you have on your instrument.

[01:31:24] And that way you might find some different sound that you like.

[01:31:30] What I like to do also is change the tuning on my guitar.

[01:31:33] Sometimes I tweak one chord or another chord.

[01:31:38] And this, I can play a song.

[01:31:46] This song I made up in Yosemite.

[01:31:54] For this song, I just have to change the fourth chord up

[01:32:00] to the same note as the upper and bottom string.

[01:32:06] So it makes a flowy vibe.

[01:32:12] I'm a little rusty because I haven't played so much lately.

[01:32:17] No one's judging.

[01:32:18] Yeah.

[01:32:18] Okay.

[01:32:19] Hit it.

[01:32:19] Yeah.

[01:32:45] So

[01:35:12] all right, folks, thanks for listening.

[01:35:14] And thanks to Nico for showing up.

[01:35:19] Yeah, that was a lot of fun.

[01:35:20] We went fast and furious.

[01:35:21] We had so much more to talk about.

[01:35:23] Like where do you even start with that guy?

[01:35:26] So many different adventures we could have gone to.

[01:35:28] But that was a good solid interview from Nico.

[01:35:31] And thanks for the jam at the end, dude.

[01:35:33] Really great.

[01:35:34] And if you can't find Nico's media online, well, you're not trying very hard.

[01:35:39] Not that he's a relentless self-promoter, actually.

[01:35:42] I think there's a lot of climbing that he's done that's just flown under the radar.

[01:35:46] But those guys do great work with their videos and all that sort of stuff.

[01:35:50] Of course, he's on Instagram, all the places.

[01:35:52] Check him out.

[01:35:53] It's usually a really fun ride when you dig into some of their media.

[01:35:57] Okay, I want to mention that I'm going to be out and about in June and July.

[01:36:02] I'm going to go to Lander for the climbing festival.

[01:36:04] I have no official connection with that event this year as of yet.

[01:36:09] Just going to go.

[01:36:09] Just going to be an attendee, be around.

[01:36:12] So let's hang out if you're up there.

[01:36:15] And also going to tent sleep on a family trip in June.

[01:36:20] So if you're there third or so week of June, let's hang out.

[01:36:22] All right, have a great day.

[01:36:25] Get out there and rock climb.

[01:36:26] I'm going tomorrow.

[01:36:27] It's beautiful here in Colorado.

[01:36:29] We're having a nice kind of wet-ish spring, which is interrupting climbing, but you know,

[01:36:34] good for life and the ecosystem, things like that.

[01:36:39] Slow down fire season this year.

[01:36:41] So I hope it's great where you are too.

[01:36:43] And don't forget to check your knots.

[01:36:54] So

[01:37:12] I gave my love a cherry that had no stone.

[01:37:20] And I gave my love a chicken that had no bones.

[01:37:31] I gave my love a story that had no end.

[01:37:40] I give.

[01:37:51] Sorry.

[01:37:59] So.