Enormocast 283: Clint Helander – To Live in Hearts We Leave Behind

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[00:02:38] Hello and welcome to the Enorma Cast. This is your host Chris Goulouce. It is April 7th, 2024 about 9 30 p.m. here in Colorado

[00:02:47] And this is episode 283 of the Enorma Cast

[00:02:51] A conversation with Alpinist Alaska climber Clint Helender

[00:02:57] And this is a throwback, Enorma Cast

[00:03:01] It's a face-to-face interview I got up in Munising, Michigan at the Michigan Ice Festival

[00:03:07] But moreover, nevertheless, furthermore, in as much as... how many other compoundy words can I get in here?

[00:03:16] Anyway, we did it at about 9 30 in the morning after being up super late

[00:03:22] First of all, there was the Chris Goulouce dance party

[00:03:24] Now I'm not going to get into the details of why it's called that again

[00:03:28] Just look it up

[00:03:29] Then we went out after hours to a bar in Munising, literally called Whiskey Dicks

[00:03:33] Whiskey Dicks, the bar

[00:03:36] That place was raging

[00:03:37] Then we went back to the hotel

[00:03:39] And I don't know, there was a point at which somebody in my hotel room said, what time is it?

[00:03:44] And it was like 3.15 or something like that

[00:03:47] And they still didn't leave

[00:03:49] I don't know how late Clint was up

[00:03:50] He was around at the hotel and then I think he wisely went off maybe at like 2.45

[00:03:55] Anyhow, this was right after that

[00:03:58] So yeah, good old fashioned, enormous cast, deep late night vibes coming out in the morning

[00:04:04] You can feel it, it's chill

[00:04:07] We start out heavy and it's chill

[00:04:10] Kicking it in my hotel room in Munising, Michigan

[00:04:14] So who's Clint Helander?

[00:04:16] Helander? Helander

[00:04:18] Clint is an Alaskan alpinist, kind of made himself sort of the expert of a place called the Revelation Mountains

[00:04:25] In the Alaska range, but has climbed all over Alaska and all over the world

[00:04:30] We get a bunch of stories in here from the revelations, particularly an ascent of Golgotha

[00:04:35] With Andreas Marin, who's another friend of mine and also has been on the podcast before

[00:04:41] You might remember Andreas from his accent

[00:04:44] I remember that interview because I fell backwards or forwards

[00:04:49] I don't know, I tumbled out his camper door narrowly missing his bumper with my head

[00:04:55] And it was hysterically funny, but it also could have been hysterically tragic

[00:05:00] Had I hit the back of my head on his bumper for his hitch or something like that

[00:05:04] Andreas Marin is not in this interview, although we do talk about him

[00:05:08] Clint is here and here's what I like about this interview with Clint

[00:05:11] Clint is sort of a journeyman alpinist, a journeyman climber in Alaska

[00:05:16] I don't think he's gotten a ton of press for being super flashy and getting his name all over the internet or whatever

[00:05:26] But he's just been banging it out up there

[00:05:28] He went up there as a student, kind of not even that outdoorsy

[00:05:32] And he molded himself into this alpine climber who now 40, I think

[00:05:38] He's got a ton of experience, he's sort of a go-to guy

[00:05:42] He knows what he's doing, he knows the ins and outs of the Alaska Range

[00:05:45] Particularly this place called the Revelations

[00:05:48] And in this interview we sort of go behind the scenes into what it takes to bang out these roots in a place like Alaska

[00:05:55] Because you know, he tried to climb one mountain or at least thought about it for 14 years

[00:06:01] And went on several expeditions, had several near misses

[00:06:06] Not only of the summit but also near misses in the danger sense

[00:06:11] And finally got this thing done, we talk a lot about it at Golgotha

[00:06:15] But it's just one of many climbs that he's spent a lot of time trying over and over again

[00:06:22] And you know, we always hear the press when somebody sends something

[00:06:25] We don't always see or hear about the expeditions that got them there

[00:06:28] The ones where they figured out the descent but didn't summit

[00:06:31] Or the ones where they just sat in their tent for two weeks or three weeks or four weeks before just going home

[00:06:38] And not learning anything about the mountain

[00:06:40] But yeah, we create this metaphor in here, the red point alpinism

[00:06:44] Which is actually a Josh Wharton thing that I picked up from talking to him

[00:06:48] But this idea of going, trying to climb over and over again

[00:06:51] Learning a little bit each time

[00:06:53] And then finally hopefully sending

[00:06:55] We're going home and never going back is a hoisin' option as well

[00:06:59] That's what this one's good for

[00:07:01] A little bit of a working person's look at what it takes to be an alpinist

[00:07:06] So I hope you guys enjoy it

[00:07:08] Just a little more variety here at the Enorma Cast

[00:07:11] Coming from Natalia Grossman last episode

[00:07:15] Our bright future at the Olympics

[00:07:18] Indoor climber, plastic climber

[00:07:20] All the way to journeyman alpinist Clint Elander

[00:07:28] In the south of France, there is legendary Green Pond

[00:07:34] Le Verdant, Le Calanque, Seillouze

[00:07:40] But there is also the legendary wind, Le Mistral

[00:07:45] A strong, cold, nearly zealous winds that can drive the people mad

[00:07:49] But create conditions parfait pour escalade

[00:07:54] One moment, let me put down my baguette and my cigarette

[00:08:01] Ah, oui

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[00:08:12] A sticky toe patch makes the Mistral an all-arounder for hooking and jamming alike

[00:08:17] And let me tell you something, I have never slipped my feet into a more comfortable climbing shoe

[00:08:22] Even performance snug, these things feel like stuffing your feet into a buttery croissant

[00:08:27] But they climb way better than that as croissants are much too flaky to ride any sort of edge

[00:08:32] And forget about jamming

[00:08:34] So if you're looking for a light, comfortable all-arounder

[00:08:37] Ride like the wind at sportiva.com or your local shop and try on a Mistral

[00:08:41] And see if you ever want to take it off

[00:08:43] Butter optional

[00:08:47] Yeah, well it was about six months after Jess and Hans Jorgen David had died on House Peak

[00:08:57] And I'm not a religious person at all

[00:09:00] Like complete nihilist in terms of anything like that

[00:09:05] But I had this dream and I've always had this ability in my dreams to wake up

[00:09:14] And know it's a dream, so it sucks sometimes when there's a beautiful lady in your dream

[00:09:19] You're like, damn it, don't wake up

[00:09:22] But with this one, Jess' wife called me and she goes

[00:09:29] Hey Jess wants you to meet him at this place in 20 minutes

[00:09:34] And I live in Alaska but it was in Spokane or something which is where they live

[00:09:39] And I said, Alice, Jess is dead

[00:09:42] She goes, no you didn't hear

[00:09:44] They were able to bring him back on the operating table, he's alive

[00:09:48] And then like can only happen in a dream I just instantly transported to this dusky eastern Washington desert landscape

[00:09:57] And I could see the ponderosa pines and the sun was setting

[00:10:01] And it was like that orange kind of pink light

[00:10:05] And all of a sudden this old 1980s looking Ford pickup truck just comes rambling down this dirt road

[00:10:12] Kicking up dust and everything

[00:10:14] And just come slides to a stop right next to me and Jess was in there

[00:10:20] And he goes, get in, kind of the way he talked

[00:10:23] And I couldn't see him directly, it was kind of like in my peripheral vision

[00:10:29] But I got in and I just remember sitting there in silence as we were driving down this dirt road for a while

[00:10:37] And the air was warm and I had my hand out the window, flying my hand out with the wind, you know

[00:10:43] Making a wing out of it

[00:10:45] And I couldn't see him directly

[00:10:48] But I could look in the rear view mirror and see his eyes and they were completely at peace

[00:10:53] And super calm

[00:10:56] And he goes, I don't have long

[00:10:59] And I go, okay, I know

[00:11:01] And the whole time in the dream I was thinking, don't wake up, don't wake up

[00:11:05] And just trying to figure out what this was

[00:11:08] And then he pulled over and he goes, this is where you get out

[00:11:14] And then I looked and then I could see him for the first time

[00:11:18] And like totally clear

[00:11:20] And he looked at me and he goes, I'm okay man, really, I'm okay

[00:11:25] And it was super crazy

[00:11:27] Because I shot up out of bed in Alaska in the middle of the night in the winter

[00:11:31] I'm like, what the hell was that?

[00:11:33] And then I told his parents

[00:11:36] And they said that they'd had a slightly different form of the same dream

[00:11:41] Really?

[00:11:42] Which was super weird

[00:11:43] And then that really helped me to kind of finish processing that grief

[00:11:52] Of losing him and other people

[00:11:55] But then like a few months after that

[00:11:59] I had another dream where I was climbing up on this mountain

[00:12:02] And then in the dream I'm like, it's happening again

[00:12:05] And this little shadowy figure was climbing up right next to me

[00:12:09] And he got to the top and it was him

[00:12:11] I'm like, it's good to see you again dude

[00:12:13] I love you so much

[00:12:14] And he gave me this big hug that I could feel in my body

[00:12:18] And I still can't explain that

[00:12:21] But it was in some ways closure

[00:12:24] And it was like communicating beyond this realm

[00:12:28] Which I totally don't believe in

[00:12:31] But I can't explain it

[00:12:34] But it's really weird because I don't feel a need to explain it

[00:12:38] And maybe it's just my mind processing it

[00:12:42] But it was really cool

[00:12:44] And I felt like it kind of brought me a lot of peace

[00:12:48] After losing one of my best friends in this incredibly tragic accident

[00:12:56] Yeah, I mean your body and your mind

[00:13:00] Was just maybe also finding a way to do that

[00:13:04] Like a more visceral way to do that

[00:13:07] You just walked in and we were talking about this

[00:13:10] And it came up and I thought well we'll open with it

[00:13:13] Even though it's sort of both sides of the coin

[00:13:17] Emotional story because it actually helped you to hear that

[00:13:21] But also I ended up, the one time I met Jess

[00:13:24] Was at this festival, the last time I was here

[00:13:27] At the Michigan Ice Fest

[00:13:29] And I remember a little casual conversation

[00:13:32] We had at the bagel shop that's now a weed shop

[00:13:35] Across the road there

[00:13:37] And I remember we were just kind of joking about

[00:13:40] Just kind of being a little weird here

[00:13:43] And he's like yeah it's a little weird here

[00:13:45] And I was like yeah, that was it

[00:13:48] It's cool guy and then it wasn't too long after that actually

[00:13:51] What year was that when that accident happened?

[00:13:53] How do you remember?

[00:13:54] 2019

[00:13:55] Yeah so that actually explains

[00:13:57] Because I've been trying to remember what year I was here

[00:13:59] But that explains it because it was 20

[00:14:01] I was like was it 2020 or 2019?

[00:14:04] I think it was here 2019 so yeah

[00:14:07] Anyway and then New Hans or from the podcast

[00:14:10] Having talked to him and I had only met David

[00:14:12] But yeah that was a couple hard years

[00:14:16] Through 2018 and 2019 and 2017 as well too

[00:14:21] So that was kind of like

[00:14:24] I remember that everybody was like what's going on

[00:14:27] With climbers with alpinists

[00:14:31] And it was a hard few years

[00:14:33] Oh totally yeah and like the number of times

[00:14:37] When people just random people who are kind of

[00:14:40] Outside of climbing or whatever would say

[00:14:43] Oh have you seen that movie The Alpinist?

[00:14:46] About that guy that died in Alaska

[00:14:48] I was like yeah he died with my other

[00:14:51] Main climbing partner Ryan

[00:14:54] After completing the route that Ryan and I had first tried

[00:14:57] Two years prior and Ryan swore

[00:15:00] That he was never going to go back and go down that gully

[00:15:03] Where he ended up getting killed

[00:15:05] So I just remember after that for a while

[00:15:09] Like I just like put my climbing gear in this dark corner

[00:15:13] Of my closet and didn't look at it for a while

[00:15:16] And contemplated selling all of it

[00:15:19] And I really had to kind of redefine

[00:15:21] What my future as a climber looked like

[00:15:24] And I wasn't sure if I was going to go back

[00:15:27] And do routes like that anymore

[00:15:30] Or ever again but yeah I think just

[00:15:35] Having conversations with many many people

[00:15:38] Who have been through that has helped

[00:15:40] And here we are

[00:15:42] Yeah I mean that's the processing of it

[00:15:45] It's a hard thing to process

[00:15:47] But you know the truth is not that many people

[00:15:49] Do end up walking away because

[00:15:51] You know when you're in it

[00:15:54] At some point you've accepted in a way

[00:15:57] That this is part of the game

[00:15:59] And it's like a weird

[00:16:01] Yeah it's weird because I just don't find that many people

[00:16:04] Who necessarily leave it all together

[00:16:07] When these things happen they find a way to keep going

[00:16:10] Because it's part of who they are

[00:16:12] You know and it's like definitely part of who you are

[00:16:15] And did you ever think about the other

[00:16:19] Sort of coping which is to be inspired

[00:16:23] To do the things that those guys were doing

[00:16:26] Or not specifically the routes but just say

[00:16:29] Well you know this is our lives

[00:16:32] And this was their lives and we're just

[00:16:34] You know keep going and do cooler stuff

[00:16:36] And live the life

[00:16:38] Oh yeah for sure

[00:16:40] And I've really tried to define

[00:16:43] Like how I approach things and

[00:16:46] I like to say that I'm cautiously bold

[00:16:49] Meaning that there's certain times when

[00:16:52] I'm going to take a risk and it feels risky

[00:16:55] But I also know that I'm doing everything in my power

[00:16:58] To do it in the safest way possible right

[00:17:03] So Golgotha for example

[00:17:06] It took 14 damn years to climb that mountain

[00:17:09] Over 5 or 6 attempts

[00:17:12] Every time we turned around

[00:17:14] But we know we're making the right decision

[00:17:16] Even if we're more than halfway up this thing

[00:17:20] You can always make more money to fly back there

[00:17:22] But if you make the wrong decision

[00:17:24] That's your last time doing anything

[00:17:27] You know I kind of got this impression

[00:17:29] Or not this impression but I was talking to

[00:17:31] Josh Wharton and on the other show

[00:17:35] On the run out and he mentioned

[00:17:37] You know this idea of the red point

[00:17:39] Alpinism which I knew was going on

[00:17:41] But like that there was sort of this

[00:17:43] You know this phrase that went around

[00:17:46] Like we're gonna go red point this thing

[00:17:48] And it made it's like he was like

[00:17:50] Weirdly like a sport climb

[00:17:52] Each time you learn more beta

[00:17:54] And you know it's serious beta

[00:17:56] It's not just a move

[00:17:58] But about where the route should go

[00:18:00] And where it's dangerous and all those sorts of things

[00:18:02] And you just keep on coming back

[00:18:04] And you joked when we got on this thing

[00:18:06] I asked if you were in a relationship

[00:18:08] And you said no you're full Alaska

[00:18:10] Or something like that

[00:18:12] You know it's like sometimes those other things

[00:18:14] Ticking away make you kind of anxious

[00:18:16] About how many more trips you're gonna get to do

[00:18:18] As life moves in a different direction

[00:18:20] But it's good to have patience

[00:18:22] Oh yeah and I remember making it to my 30th birthday

[00:18:26] And... What year was that?

[00:18:28] That well let's see I was born in 84

[00:18:30] So that was 2014

[00:18:32] Right

[00:18:34] And being kind of surprised

[00:18:36] But also feeling like okay

[00:18:38] I've made it to 30 now I gotta make it to 40

[00:18:40] And now I'm thinking well beyond that

[00:18:44] Of course but gosh

[00:18:46] You know there's so many mistakes you can make

[00:18:48] And there's so many things outside of

[00:18:50] Like normal climbing

[00:18:52] That make alpinism potentially

[00:18:54] Incredibly dangerous

[00:18:56] But the rewards are so huge

[00:18:58] I think really I just tried to

[00:19:00] Look at things

[00:19:02] From a farther lens

[00:19:04] And

[00:19:06] Think long term and like just do more planning

[00:19:08] As opposed to letting things kind of

[00:19:10] Fall where they may

[00:19:12] And

[00:19:14] Reading the early warning signs

[00:19:16] Of things as they happen

[00:19:20] With

[00:19:22] The mileage you start going oh man

[00:19:24] Like okay cool we thought we were gonna do it in a day

[00:19:26] Now we're

[00:19:28] Into hour 20

[00:19:30] And we're still a long way

[00:19:32] Why push it let's just come back and

[00:19:34] Bring more food

[00:19:36] Bring more gear and then we'll

[00:19:38] Get it the next time

[00:19:40] So you learn these things

[00:19:42] From

[00:19:44] Failure

[00:19:46] Yeah and I mean it's also called maturing

[00:19:48] Right and starting to look at the world

[00:19:50] In a bigger place and the consequences

[00:19:52] And things like that I think is pretty natural

[00:19:54] You know and it's interesting

[00:19:56] You mark the 30 as

[00:19:58] Like this goal because

[00:20:00] Young men in their 20s

[00:20:02] Is like a problem

[00:20:04] You know it's like

[00:20:06] I mean across all

[00:20:08] Things like they're

[00:20:10] They're more dangerous and driving

[00:20:12] Cars and they're more you know

[00:20:14] Risk takers in all parts of life

[00:20:16] Like any insurance person will tell you

[00:20:18] That there's this word we're

[00:20:20] Dangerous we're dangerous people

[00:20:22] They won't let you rent a car until you're 25 or something

[00:20:24] Right yeah they shouldn't anyway

[00:20:26] I mean it's also why they recruit them

[00:20:28] As soldiers you know

[00:20:30] They don't recruit 30 year olds

[00:20:32] Cause we're like no no I'm not

[00:20:34] Going over there where those guys

[00:20:36] Are shooting at me

[00:20:38] Let's think this through for a minute guys

[00:20:40] Anyhow you know one of the things

[00:20:42] You mentioned I saw your presentation

[00:20:44] The other night and

[00:20:46] I thought it was great and with

[00:20:48] Alpinism I think you have to like

[00:20:50] Climbing in general you have to kind of

[00:20:52] Balance like humility and

[00:20:54] Bravado because if you're

[00:20:56] Too cautious and you're like

[00:20:58] You'll never leave the house

[00:21:00] But you also have to you know

[00:21:02] You have to also be

[00:21:04] You know submit yourself to the mountain

[00:21:06] And understand it and remember

[00:21:08] That you'll that it can crush you

[00:21:10] So you have to be both things

[00:21:12] And I thought that was a really nice balance

[00:21:14] In the way you talked about climbing

[00:21:16] And I talked about your friends and things like that

[00:21:18] But one of the things that stood out was

[00:21:20] That you were absolutely allergic

[00:21:22] To outdoor

[00:21:24] Stuff and camping and all these sorts

[00:21:26] Of things and so let me tell me a little bit

[00:21:28] About that transition of that kid

[00:21:30] To someone who wanted to

[00:21:32] Wanted to climb these big peaks I mean you were

[00:21:34] You were born and raised in Alaska

[00:21:36] Is that right? I was born and raised

[00:21:38] In Washington

[00:21:40] West of Seattle

[00:21:42] And then I moved up to

[00:21:44] Alaska when I was 18 for one semester

[00:21:46] Of college that became two

[00:21:48] And became two years and

[00:21:50] My dad to this day

[00:21:52] Gives me hell because he's like

[00:21:54] We bought you a backpack

[00:21:56] A backpacking backpack when you were a little kid

[00:21:58] We couldn't get you to go hiking

[00:22:00] You hated it I was in the same way

[00:22:02] Yeah and then now all of a sudden you're like

[00:22:04] Mr. Extremo Outdoors

[00:22:06] Like what happened

[00:22:08] But it was I think just that

[00:22:10] The switch was flipped when I went up there

[00:22:12] And I still can't really

[00:22:14] Describe it but

[00:22:16] In the first five weeks of being

[00:22:18] At college we went

[00:22:20] Rafting and ice climbing

[00:22:22] And rock climbing and back country skiing

[00:22:24] And it

[00:22:26] Opened up this kind of portal

[00:22:28] To a different world that I didn't

[00:22:30] Even know existed

[00:22:32] And it happened very

[00:22:34] Intrinsically over time

[00:22:36] That I just gravitated towards

[00:22:38] Ice climbing and

[00:22:40] Anyone who knows anything

[00:22:42] About Alaska who's a climber knows

[00:22:44] That we have terrible rock climbing

[00:22:46] In fact in an early edition

[00:22:48] Of climbing magazine maybe 20 years ago

[00:22:50] They rated the Seward Highway as

[00:22:52] The worst climbing crag

[00:22:54] I remember that. In the country

[00:22:56] They said it's so bad we're not

[00:22:58] Even going to include a picture of it

[00:23:00] So

[00:23:02] It was really like a road cut

[00:23:04] Oh yeah totally yeah

[00:23:06] Yeah in fact

[00:23:08] We have these old pictures

[00:23:10] Like placing number two cams

[00:23:12] In drill holes and stuff like that

[00:23:14] But our most

[00:23:16] Classic route on the highway called

[00:23:18] Classic Crack fell down a couple years ago

[00:23:20] So go figure but

[00:23:22] Yeah I was climbing

[00:23:24] Water ice five before I even knew how to

[00:23:26] Climb five eight tread

[00:23:28] And

[00:23:30] Then I kind of

[00:23:32] Got more and more into

[00:23:34] Climbing mountains and I placed these goals

[00:23:36] Of doing Rainier

[00:23:38] And the moose's tooth

[00:23:40] And then I just kind of

[00:23:42] Had to engineer it back like okay well

[00:23:44] The casines five eight

[00:23:46] Water ice four so I have to be able to climb

[00:23:48] Water ice five

[00:23:50] And five nine

[00:23:52] Five eight mountain boots which means I have to go to Yosemite

[00:23:54] And learn how to climb five nine tread

[00:23:56] Because if I can do that in 70 degrees

[00:23:58] And rock shoes

[00:24:00] Then surely I can climb five eight

[00:24:02] In big mountain boots yeah

[00:24:04] Just one great argument

[00:24:06] Yeah and then

[00:24:08] There was numerous epics in Yosemite

[00:24:10] I'm sure as you can imagine

[00:24:12] Very well

[00:24:14] Maybe you were one of the guys yelling at me

[00:24:16] To not do whatever stupid thing I was doing

[00:24:18] Probably not

[00:24:20] Yeah you know

[00:24:22] So for many years yeah I was like this

[00:24:24] I'd go to Yosemite and be a rock climber for two weeks

[00:24:26] And then like at the very end I'm like okay

[00:24:28] Now I'm climbing five ten

[00:24:30] And then

[00:24:32] I would go back and

[00:24:34] Not really be able to rock climb anything

[00:24:36] That wasn't going to fall off in my hand for

[00:24:38] The next year until I got back to Yosemite

[00:24:40] Or Red Rock or something

[00:24:42] But

[00:24:44] It was a slow progression but

[00:24:46] I think it was really valuable to learn

[00:24:48] Over the long period of time

[00:24:50] And hone the skills through trial and error

[00:24:52] Yeah

[00:24:54] I mean but

[00:24:56] Like when did you

[00:24:58] You know when did you climb something

[00:25:00] Something big

[00:25:02] Enough to say like

[00:25:04] Well I just graduated

[00:25:06] You know in your mind

[00:25:08] I mean maybe it didn't happen that way

[00:25:10] Like it was at that time but like looking back

[00:25:12] Like what was the first thing that

[00:25:14] You know as you're bumbling around

[00:25:16] And you're dreaming of the mooses tooth

[00:25:18] You obviously didn't go straight to that

[00:25:20] I don't know if you've ever even climbed it

[00:25:22] But um yeah

[00:25:24] Like what was this kind of like yeah here I am

[00:25:26] I'm in this game

[00:25:28] After all

[00:25:30] The first thing that I was really

[00:25:32] I think proud of just in terms of

[00:25:34] Getting to a point where okay I'm

[00:25:36] A climber now or an explorer

[00:25:38] Whatever

[00:25:40] Was in the Revelation Mountains

[00:25:42] 2008 or 2009

[00:25:44] When we did our first

[00:25:46] Big first descent which was the ice

[00:25:48] Pyramid and that was with my

[00:25:50] Climbing partner

[00:25:52] Seth who also went to

[00:25:54] The University of Alaska

[00:25:56] And he was older than me by a couple years

[00:25:58] But we had made this

[00:26:00] Kind of long term goal of climbing

[00:26:02] All these peaks in this

[00:26:04] Subrange of the Alaska

[00:26:06] Range called the Revelation Mountains

[00:26:08] And there really hadn't been a whole lot

[00:26:10] Of people who had gone there

[00:26:12] So we yeah we flew out there

[00:26:14] And the first year we tried it

[00:26:16] And this was just kind of a sub goal

[00:26:18] To our big goal

[00:26:20] At the time which was this Mount Mauselus

[00:26:22] Peak and

[00:26:24] We got up that and then

[00:26:26] Like oh wow we just did like a

[00:26:28] Pretty big first

[00:26:30] Ascent and I look back at it now

[00:26:32] You know we'd three days on that thing

[00:26:34] And now I would do it in a day

[00:26:36] It had all that technical climbing

[00:26:38] And we had kind of honed our skills

[00:26:40] For for years and then we had to

[00:26:42] Figure out a pretty complicated descent

[00:26:44] And go over a pass and

[00:26:46] Come back to our camp and

[00:26:48] Yeah we really just learned a lot and that

[00:26:50] Just slingshoted me kind of

[00:26:52] Into that next 10 years

[00:26:54] Of doing exploratory

[00:26:56] Alpinism in Alaska

[00:26:58] Specifically and

[00:27:00] Each year kind of trying to

[00:27:02] Go for more technical, more

[00:27:04] Improbable peaks and unclimbed

[00:27:06] And this guy Seth what was his last name?

[00:27:08] Seth Holden

[00:27:10] So this guy Seth Holden

[00:27:12] Was more experienced than you

[00:27:14] He was, yeah when I was

[00:27:16] 20 and met him

[00:27:18] He'd already climbed

[00:27:20] El Cap and done all these things that

[00:27:22] For me as a complete neophyte

[00:27:24] You know

[00:27:26] He was a demigod pretty much

[00:27:28] From all these things he'd done

[00:27:30] And at that time

[00:27:32] Mount Rainier was something that I thought I would do

[00:27:34] When I was 40

[00:27:36] And something like

[00:27:38] El Cap was just

[00:27:40] I was probably asking well how do you

[00:27:42] Get the rope up there at that point in time

[00:27:44] So out of my element

[00:27:46] But

[00:27:48] You learn quick when you're really psyched

[00:27:50] And young and you just take it all in

[00:27:52] What was his personality like?

[00:27:54] He was

[00:27:56] Like as much of a renaissance man

[00:27:58] As I think I've ever met still

[00:28:00] He was

[00:28:02] He had a

[00:28:04] Degree in economics

[00:28:06] And had a real job

[00:28:08] Which was pretty rare among our group of friends

[00:28:10] And

[00:28:12] Just seemed like he was good at everything he

[00:28:14] Did. He could talk to ladies

[00:28:16] He was

[00:28:18] Incredibly fit

[00:28:20] He was smart

[00:28:22] He had a ton of money

[00:28:24] Because he saved money unlike us who were

[00:28:26] Like just working these menial jobs

[00:28:28] Trying to get through college and

[00:28:30] He was just kind of a quiet

[00:28:32] Very calculated guy

[00:28:34] And you could look in his eyes

[00:28:36] And you always felt like he was only telling

[00:28:38] You about 10% of what he was thinking

[00:28:40] And

[00:28:42] I really learned a lot

[00:28:44] From him. What do you think he saw on you?

[00:28:46] Or what was like

[00:28:48] I mean I ask that question because

[00:28:50] I'm always interested if people reflect

[00:28:52] On

[00:28:54] What qualities they bring to the game

[00:28:56] Versus just like

[00:28:58] You know I don't know why they

[00:29:00] Why someone wants to climb with me

[00:29:02] Because I think about my own partners

[00:29:04] And I can tell you why I climb with them

[00:29:06] But I don't know if they think about that themselves

[00:29:08] So what do you think he saw on you?

[00:29:10] I mean if you're like that big a

[00:29:12] Gumby

[00:29:14] Like why did it work out that he wanted

[00:29:16] To take you along

[00:29:18] Versus somebody that I'm sure he knew people

[00:29:20] That were more experienced

[00:29:22] I think he saw a really psyched loud mouth

[00:29:24] With some potential

[00:29:26] And

[00:29:30] He was

[00:29:32] Cautious in the fact that he was

[00:29:34] Extremely calculated

[00:29:36] Whereas I was willing

[00:29:38] I've always had a pretty high risk tolerance

[00:29:40] And I would go out there

[00:29:42] But then I think we kind of balanced each other

[00:29:44] With the risk versus reward

[00:29:46] And we would go out there

[00:29:48] And do these trips

[00:29:50] And just kind of figure it out together

[00:29:52] Ultimately probably

[00:29:54] He just

[00:29:56] Maybe saw that I was

[00:29:58] I was willing to show up every time

[00:30:00] And I came to him with a lot of ideas

[00:30:02] And sometimes he'd say

[00:30:04] No, that's crazy

[00:30:06] And then other times we would just go and figure it out

[00:30:08] And

[00:30:10] It ended up we struck gold in the revelations

[00:30:12] Really

[00:30:14] That revelations thing

[00:30:16] I seem to be a bit of a conveyor belt

[00:30:18] Or you were like

[00:30:20] You'd go and see one thing

[00:30:22] Maybe get it done and see another

[00:30:24] And this real love of that place

[00:30:26] And progression

[00:30:28] Through there. What was so special about that place?

[00:30:30] I mean other than

[00:30:32] I guess it sounds like it was just somewhere new

[00:30:34] That wasn't all hammered by a lot of people

[00:30:36] Yeah

[00:30:38] It was this

[00:30:40] Really wild

[00:30:42] Remote place

[00:30:44] It's only 165 miles west of Anchorage

[00:30:46] Really at the southern tip of the Alaska range

[00:30:48] But

[00:30:50] In the mid 2000s to find a range

[00:30:52] That only had

[00:30:54] A couple of the peaks that were climbed

[00:30:56] Just

[00:30:58] So much potential

[00:31:00] Of extremely high quality

[00:31:02] Three or four thousand foot elevation

[00:31:04] Lines

[00:31:06] Is rare and

[00:31:08] I haven't found any other place

[00:31:10] That

[00:31:12] Is anywhere close to that

[00:31:14] So we just got really lucky

[00:31:16] And tried to hammer it out as quick

[00:31:18] As we could

[00:31:20] And then still being the loudmouth

[00:31:22] That I was

[00:31:24] I wrote about it enough that other people started going there

[00:31:26] And then I felt

[00:31:28] Oh man we really got to get this done

[00:31:30] Before some Euro team comes in

[00:31:32] And just smashes all of my goals

[00:31:34] And like one trip

[00:31:36] Right

[00:31:38] The A team shows up

[00:31:40] Yeah

[00:31:42] I mean is it different now?

[00:31:44] Is it pretty well visited now?

[00:31:46] Well

[00:31:48] Those things kind of gather like steam

[00:31:50] And then all of a sudden yeah it's like a lot of people start going

[00:31:52] Oh yeah, yeah it's brought

[00:31:54] A lot of attention to it

[00:31:56] A lot of the best climbers in the world

[00:31:58] Now have gone there and

[00:32:00] Have done one or two trips

[00:32:02] There's not very many

[00:32:04] Unclimbed peaks left

[00:32:06] And kind of feel like many of the

[00:32:08] Plum lines have been taken

[00:32:10] But there's still a couple things

[00:32:12] Yeah we won't talk about that

[00:32:14] You know there's sort of this

[00:32:16] There's this thing buried

[00:32:18] In what we're talking about and maybe people picked up

[00:32:20] On the fact that we're talking about

[00:32:22] Seth in past tense

[00:32:24] But he didn't pass away

[00:32:26] Climbing. Tell me what happened

[00:32:28] He and my friend Brandon

[00:32:30] Were

[00:32:32] Out flying around

[00:32:34] In a little super cub plane

[00:32:36] So it's pilot in the front

[00:32:38] And

[00:32:40] Second person in the back

[00:32:42] They're very very light planes

[00:32:44] Everyone in Alaska

[00:32:46] Has a super cub it seems like

[00:32:48] And what they're really good for

[00:32:50] Is they take off and they land

[00:32:52] In really really short tight areas

[00:32:54] So they were out looking for

[00:32:56] Moose for a fall hunt

[00:32:58] And they did this classic

[00:33:00] Mistake and

[00:33:02] They did the super cub moose stall

[00:33:04] They call it. Brandon was flying

[00:33:06] And

[00:33:08] They must have seen a moose

[00:33:10] And he probably dipped the wing to look at it

[00:33:12] And just lost

[00:33:14] Lost lift

[00:33:16] And took a non-recoverable dive

[00:33:18] And just right into a gravel

[00:33:20] Bar and killed them instantly

[00:33:22] And

[00:33:24] Of course that was

[00:33:28] Shocking

[00:33:30] It was the first time

[00:33:32] Any of us had ever lost

[00:33:34] Two close friends

[00:33:36] And then one really tragic

[00:33:38] Accident

[00:33:40] And so for me

[00:33:42] Other than

[00:33:44] The loss of losing

[00:33:46] My friend and partner

[00:33:48] Who I still really heavily relied on

[00:33:50] For kind of

[00:33:52] I think what I really appreciated was Seth

[00:33:54] Was that I thought he balanced my

[00:33:56] Recklessness that was

[00:33:58] Just the result of not as much experience

[00:34:00] And so I didn't

[00:34:02] Have any other partner

[00:34:04] That I could trust to keep

[00:34:06] Me safe and check me

[00:34:08] In the mountains during that time

[00:34:10] And I wasn't sure

[00:34:12] If I would go back to the revelations

[00:34:14] With anybody

[00:34:16] Until I found another

[00:34:18] Mentor, and you might actually

[00:34:20] Even know him

[00:34:22] Scotty Vincic

[00:34:24] He was a Yo-Sar guy

[00:34:26] And at that point in time he was living up in Alaska

[00:34:28] And he was significantly older than me

[00:34:30] But

[00:34:32] He really took me under his wing

[00:34:34] Big climbs together out there as well

[00:34:36] But

[00:34:38] Yeah, I think Seth was just

[00:34:40] He really was my first

[00:34:42] Big mentor and

[00:34:44] Even more than the climbing

[00:34:46] I just kind of learned the balance of

[00:34:48] Life from him

[00:34:50] You had like a

[00:34:52] I think you described it as sort of

[00:34:54] Like a long term pathway

[00:34:56] That you had kind of measured out

[00:34:58] For these climbs that you had kept seeing

[00:35:00] And which ones would be first

[00:35:02] Which ones would train you

[00:35:04] For the next one

[00:35:06] Was that something that you had devised

[00:35:08] Or was more Seth's

[00:35:10] Kind of plan or was it just

[00:35:12] Sort of something that you guys came up with together

[00:35:14] It just happened organically

[00:35:16] Because we would stand on top

[00:35:18] Of one peak

[00:35:20] That we had just topped out on

[00:35:22] And then we'd go

[00:35:24] Whoa, look at that thing over there

[00:35:26] And it just felt

[00:35:28] Very natural and organic

[00:35:30] Kind of go okay, we need to do that one

[00:35:32] And then that one and then

[00:35:34] Someday we're gonna go do that thing

[00:35:36] And

[00:35:38] Just trying to reverse engineer how we were

[00:35:40] Gonna get there because

[00:35:42] We were both

[00:35:44] Still learning in some way

[00:35:46] And we had a long way to go to be

[00:35:48] What I would consider to be

[00:35:50] Really competent alpinists

[00:35:52] Yeah well in the someday we'll do

[00:35:54] That thing was

[00:35:56] Was what

[00:35:58] That was really the crown jewel

[00:36:00] For us of our ambitions

[00:36:02] In the range

[00:36:04] Describe it

[00:36:06] Golgotha is

[00:36:08] Just shy

[00:36:10] Of 9000 feet

[00:36:12] And I think what really inspired me

[00:36:14] About many of these mountains

[00:36:16] Was the writings of

[00:36:18] David Roberts

[00:36:20] And they had gone

[00:36:22] And been the first climbers to go to that range

[00:36:24] In 1967

[00:36:26] And

[00:36:28] He had this very poignant way

[00:36:30] Of describing

[00:36:32] These beautiful intricate mountains

[00:36:34] With just a single word

[00:36:36] Or a line and he called

[00:36:38] Golgotha

[00:36:40] A route for the next generation

[00:36:42] Or the next

[00:36:44] And when we were looking at that

[00:36:46] East face from

[00:36:48] 10 miles away it just seemed

[00:36:50] Incredibly steep and black

[00:36:52] And

[00:36:54] And it just began to lie

[00:36:56] And it just fell directly from the summit

[00:36:58] This razor thin white line

[00:37:00] That looked like it was just caked

[00:37:02] In rime and ice

[00:37:04] And snow

[00:37:06] Just separated by two gigantic

[00:37:08] Granite buttresses

[00:37:10] And it was the most perfect

[00:37:12] Line that I could envision

[00:37:14] And it just beckoned me

[00:37:16] Called me

[00:37:18] And so we knew that that was going to be

[00:37:20] Incredibly hard

[00:37:22] And

[00:37:24] We didn't know how we were going to get there

[00:37:26] But we were going to keep working on these other peaks

[00:37:28] And gain those skills so that one day

[00:37:30] We would stand under it

[00:37:32] And know that we had a pretty good shot

[00:37:34] So you did

[00:37:36] I mean you eventually started making attempts

[00:37:38] On those things

[00:37:40] Yeah, talk about the whole process

[00:37:42] I mean who'd you go with first

[00:37:44] You know did you ever attempt it with

[00:37:46] Seth and before

[00:37:48] The airplane accident

[00:37:50] Or something that happened after that

[00:37:52] Seth and I laid eyes on it

[00:37:54] In 2010

[00:37:56] On the last trip we ever did together

[00:37:58] We flew over and landed on the main

[00:38:00] Revelation glacier and then we

[00:38:02] Scoped that face

[00:38:04] From this pass and

[00:38:06] It was too late in the season at that point

[00:38:08] In time to drop in there and try it

[00:38:10] It was too warm

[00:38:12] But we definitely

[00:38:14] Concocted that okay I think we're ready

[00:38:16] And

[00:38:18] We'll come back the next year and then

[00:38:20] Within a couple of months he had died

[00:38:22] In the plane crash

[00:38:24] And

[00:38:26] It was a couple of years before I went back

[00:38:28] With my friend Ben Trochee

[00:38:30] Of Alaska and then we ended up

[00:38:32] Trying that route

[00:38:34] But bad conditions forced us

[00:38:36] To turn around and we ended up making

[00:38:38] The first descent of the peak via

[00:38:40] A significantly easier

[00:38:42] Snow, Cool-R

[00:38:44] Up to the

[00:38:46] Top 10 in terrible conditions

[00:38:48] But that was where I really

[00:38:50] Learned about how

[00:38:52] Style matters for me

[00:38:54] Because yeah we

[00:38:56] Ticked off an unclimbed peak but

[00:38:58] It didn't really mean that much to me

[00:39:00] Because the goal was

[00:39:02] To do it via this really

[00:39:04] Difficult improbable way

[00:39:06] And we'd found a cheat around it

[00:39:08] And so that never really sat right

[00:39:10] With me and I knew that I wanted to come back

[00:39:12] And climb that plum

[00:39:14] Direct perfect line

[00:39:16] And kind of finish this

[00:39:18] Long term dream that

[00:39:20] Seth and I had together

[00:39:22] You know what's interesting about that though

[00:39:24] In a way it's like in your mind you cheated

[00:39:26] But you know what's also

[00:39:28] Part of the story is that

[00:39:30] That was your first red point

[00:39:32] That and probably

[00:39:34] Gave you a ton of information

[00:39:36] And set you up to then start

[00:39:38] Really figuring out the intricacies

[00:39:40] Of that hard route so it's like

[00:39:42] It really was the right kind of almost

[00:39:44] The right way to do it in the end because

[00:39:46] Did you use that as the descent when you

[00:39:48] Climbed it? Yeah we did. So I mean

[00:39:50] There you go it's like you actually put this

[00:39:52] Super major building block in

[00:39:54] To the actual final success

[00:39:56] But in your mind you're like okay we just cheated

[00:39:58] Oh yeah yeah

[00:40:00] That's kind of wild because it's like

[00:40:02] That's just the way

[00:40:04] Alpinist sort of minds work

[00:40:06] That was a cheat but it turns out it was

[00:40:08] Actually like you know

[00:40:10] Getting through the first bolt on the project

[00:40:12] And figuring out the bouldering

[00:40:14] Start so to speak. Exactly

[00:40:16] Yeah so anyway keep going

[00:40:18] Really just it was finding

[00:40:20] Another partner who was

[00:40:22] Equally psyched on spending

[00:40:24] Long times in the mountains

[00:40:26] And really

[00:40:28] The key to being a good Alpinist is to

[00:40:30] Just be willing to not climb a lot

[00:40:32] A lot of really expensive

[00:40:34] Expensive camping trips into the mountains

[00:40:36] Where you sit there and you freeze your

[00:40:38] Harness off and

[00:40:40] I've gone on entire three week expeditions

[00:40:42] Where I haven't even put my harness on

[00:40:44] And that really sucks

[00:40:46] But after you swear

[00:40:48] That you're never going to come back

[00:40:50] You have to be willing to go out and try again

[00:40:52] And again and again sometimes

[00:40:54] I came back with

[00:40:56] Andres Marine in

[00:40:58] 2016

[00:41:00] And we're so lucky in Alaska

[00:41:02] To have these friends who are

[00:41:04] Extremely talented pilots and they have their

[00:41:06] Plains and

[00:41:08] That's really why I've been able to do

[00:41:10] So much is because I have these

[00:41:12] Friends who help in my success

[00:41:14] Without having to

[00:41:16] Have a commercial pilot fly us in for

[00:41:18] $2,000 we have

[00:41:20] These buddies that fly us in for gas

[00:41:22] And

[00:41:24] So they landed us at the base of the

[00:41:26] Mountain on this really

[00:41:28] Tiny glacier

[00:41:30] Like a quarter mile wide

[00:41:32] With these 4,000 foot

[00:41:34] Walls above you

[00:41:36] And they landed us right at the base

[00:41:38] With

[00:41:40] All of our gear so we didn't have to

[00:41:42] Approach, we were right there

[00:41:44] And we thought at the time we were totally

[00:41:46] Set until we realized that we were

[00:41:48] Completely trapped in this little

[00:41:50] Fishbowl of a glacier

[00:41:52] And so he and I

[00:41:54] Kind of started looking at the route

[00:41:56] And then it went from

[00:41:58] 40 below

[00:42:00] To 30 above at 5,000 feet

[00:42:02] In March and

[00:42:04] It snowed 3 feet in 24 hours

[00:42:06] And then we realized that we were in

[00:42:08] Extreme trouble and

[00:42:10] It was the morning

[00:42:12] Of maybe our 8th day of the expedition

[00:42:14] And

[00:42:16] It was snowing

[00:42:18] Really hard and so we started thinking about

[00:42:20] Moving our camp

[00:42:22] And we had just come out of

[00:42:24] Our tent and

[00:42:26] I was filming this time lapse

[00:42:28] Of the snow falling as we were

[00:42:30] Organizing our camp and we

[00:42:32] Couldn't see anything it was a complete white out

[00:42:34] And we just heard this

[00:42:36] Enormous crack

[00:42:38] And

[00:42:40] We looked at each other and

[00:42:42] He just said run and we

[00:42:44] Ran out of base camp through

[00:42:46] 3 feet of snow really just

[00:42:48] Stumbling and falling over ourselves

[00:42:50] And just ran away from the

[00:42:52] Noise and then

[00:42:54] Before I knew it I got hit by this

[00:42:56] Blast of wind

[00:42:58] And I started to feel myself get covered up

[00:43:00] And I remember looking over

[00:43:02] At

[00:43:04] Andreus and trying to keep eyes on him but

[00:43:06] At that moment I was sure we were going to die

[00:43:08] Like 100% sure

[00:43:10] And

[00:43:12] We were just kind of fighting and

[00:43:14] Trying to swim and I got

[00:43:16] Tumpled around a little bit and then it just

[00:43:18] Stopped

[00:43:20] It's like okay I'm still on top and

[00:43:22] I was kind of buried up to my legs

[00:43:24] And then we

[00:43:26] He stood up and we

[00:43:28] Looked back and camp was just gone

[00:43:30] Totally gone

[00:43:32] And

[00:43:34] That was when I turned my camera on

[00:43:36] And I made this video

[00:43:38] Just kind of instinctively I still don't know

[00:43:40] Why I did it but as you saw

[00:43:42] In the presentation

[00:43:44] We just it was like

[00:43:46] That wasn't staged it was

[00:43:48] Completely legitimate moments

[00:43:50] After we had survived this

[00:43:52] Cataclysmic avalanche that

[00:43:54] Completely took out our base camp and

[00:43:56] Long story short

[00:43:58] We spent the next week

[00:44:00] Trying to survive in this little narrow

[00:44:02] Tiny valley and

[00:44:04] With the remnants of our tent and

[00:44:06] Miraculously we found everything

[00:44:08] But

[00:44:10] Needless to say we did not climb

[00:44:12] That year when we were

[00:44:14] Just trying to survive and

[00:44:16] We got picked up

[00:44:18] After a week of numerous avalanches

[00:44:20] Like still hitting

[00:44:22] Dusting our tent behind this rock

[00:44:24] And

[00:44:26] After that I swore

[00:44:28] I would never go back

[00:44:30] And of course that ended up not being true

[00:44:32] Andres and I came back the next year

[00:44:34] And- Wait wait let's go

[00:44:36] Let's just- I mean it's

[00:44:38] An interesting thing because it's like

[00:44:40] It is such this big part of it

[00:44:42] All right I'll never go back

[00:44:44] I mean even as just like a

[00:44:46] You know me as a climber like

[00:44:48] In Rocky Mountain National Park or something like that

[00:44:50] You know going up on the

[00:44:52] Diamond in winter um which

[00:44:54] I did a few times and like each

[00:44:56] Time even just that little thing out like

[00:44:58] You know I'm not doing this again

[00:45:00] I'm it's this gnarly and too cold

[00:45:02] And why and then

[00:45:04] That process of

[00:45:06] Whatever happens to your brain or whatever

[00:45:08] Like tell me just a little

[00:45:10] Bit about that like I'm never going

[00:45:12] Back like how long did that thought last

[00:45:14] Where you once you got because

[00:45:16] You got flown out

[00:45:18] Somebody showed up um

[00:45:20] Was it on the plane I mean

[00:45:22] Was it like two weeks later was it like

[00:45:24] Yeah what happened tell me just

[00:45:26] About the process because I know you've probably been through it

[00:45:28] A number of times this like I'm never

[00:45:30] Coming back this is bullshit I gotta

[00:45:32] Go do something else tell me about the moment

[00:45:34] Or how that usually goes down

[00:45:36] I think at any problem

[00:45:38] At least for me I

[00:45:40] I look for a solution

[00:45:42] And okay well

[00:45:44] The problem wasn't that we were there

[00:45:46] The problem is that we were camped there and we couldn't leave

[00:45:48] And so

[00:45:50] We vowed to come back the next year and camp

[00:45:52] On a bigger glacier

[00:45:54] That was safer and then

[00:45:56] Just approached there when the conditions were right

[00:45:58] So like I said

[00:46:00] The mistake wasn't

[00:46:02] Being there it was being stuck there

[00:46:04] And as I learned more

[00:46:06] About the conditions of the

[00:46:08] Area and especially when

[00:46:10] The conditions are kind of supposed to be right

[00:46:12] Which is in the spring

[00:46:14] When it's not too cold

[00:46:16] But not too warm and there hasn't been too much snow

[00:46:18] You kind of

[00:46:20] Okay well we should

[00:46:22] Sometime in

[00:46:24] March get a two or three

[00:46:26] Week high pressure system

[00:46:28] That if it hasn't snowed a lot

[00:46:30] Would put that route in

[00:46:32] In prime shape

[00:46:34] And that's just the stuff

[00:46:36] You experience from being in these

[00:46:38] Areas year after year

[00:46:40] And noticing trends

[00:46:42] So we went back in

[00:46:44] 2017 and it

[00:46:46] Hadn't snowed for a long time

[00:46:48] So we knew conditions were pretty good

[00:46:50] And there were three of us

[00:46:52] On that trip

[00:46:54] Our buddy Leon Davis joined us

[00:46:56] And everything was perfect

[00:46:58] And then we broke a cramp on

[00:47:00] Halfway up that forced our retreat

[00:47:02] So

[00:47:04] You know that was

[00:47:06] Not a mistake it was just

[00:47:08] A tragic gear malfunction

[00:47:10] And okay well

[00:47:12] Proof of concept works

[00:47:14] We just have to come back now and find these same conditions

[00:47:16] And so

[00:47:18] We came back in 2019

[00:47:20] Or 2018 I think

[00:47:22] And it was just way too snowy

[00:47:24] So we didn't try it

[00:47:26] And then finally in 2022

[00:47:28] The conditions all

[00:47:30] Lined up again

[00:47:32] And we finally

[00:47:34] Center. How far did you get on the

[00:47:36] Cramp on breakage trip

[00:47:38] Oh we got really high

[00:47:40] Over halfway up the face

[00:47:42] And we solved a lot of questions

[00:47:44] And then

[00:47:46] We even tried to make it work

[00:47:48] We took our little brass nuts that we had

[00:47:50] And tried to make this heel or toe bail

[00:47:52] And had Dyneema slings

[00:47:54] And it just wasn't going to work for

[00:47:56] Grade 6 climbing

[00:47:58] But we got right below the crux

[00:48:00] And we could see it and like yep

[00:48:02] It's as scary as it looks

[00:48:04] But we knew that we were going to come back

[00:48:06] And we thought there

[00:48:08] We were either going to do that pitch

[00:48:10] And it would open up the access to the upper mountain

[00:48:12] Or we wouldn't

[00:48:14] And then after that we'd probably be done

[00:48:16] How many times can you go back

[00:48:18] You can keep going back

[00:48:20] As long as you don't die

[00:48:22] I mean right

[00:48:24] And that's like the retreat mentality

[00:48:26] Like we can come back

[00:48:28] But not if we don't make it back

[00:48:30] So what do you like personality was

[00:48:32] I mean you called yourself a loudmouth

[00:48:34] And you were younger and

[00:48:36] Maybe emotions can run high

[00:48:38] Or whatever but what's your

[00:48:40] Like what's your coping when this

[00:48:42] Crampons breaks

[00:48:44] And you feel like

[00:48:46] Fate hates you and why has this happened

[00:48:48] And

[00:48:50] Are you just shut up

[00:48:52] And eat it

[00:48:54] You freak out, you yell

[00:48:56] Upsend it is into the void

[00:48:58] Who are you on a climb

[00:49:00] When these stupid things go wrong

[00:49:02] I think I turned my

[00:49:04] Anger and frustration into

[00:49:06] Drive to return

[00:49:08] And solve it, I mean I don't like

[00:49:10] Failing and

[00:49:12] As much as a crampon

[00:49:14] Breaking isn't a personal failure

[00:49:16] It's still a failure and

[00:49:18] I learned right then and there

[00:49:20] Oh I need to carry an extra crampon

[00:49:22] In my bag

[00:49:24] It doesn't weigh anything but if I had

[00:49:26] A little 10 gram piece of metal

[00:49:28] We would just continue right now

[00:49:30] So yeah I turned that into this

[00:49:32] Like a rage into

[00:49:34] An intense desire

[00:49:36] To succeed

[00:49:38] And that drive

[00:49:40] Pushes me a lot

[00:49:42] So talk about the ascent

[00:49:44] The send if you will

[00:49:46] If we want to keep this dumb red pointing metaphor going

[00:49:48] So

[00:49:50] Andreessen I come back in

[00:49:52] 2022 and now we are

[00:49:54] Both convinced this is the

[00:49:56] Last time we're gonna come back

[00:49:58] How many years have we

[00:50:00] Spent sitting under here

[00:50:02] At the same exact point

[00:50:04] And finally

[00:50:06] The conditions lined up, the weather was good

[00:50:08] Snow conditions were

[00:50:10] Excellent

[00:50:12] The mountain was coated in

[00:50:14] Ice and

[00:50:16] It just kind of went really

[00:50:18] Smooth. We

[00:50:20] We went over this pass

[00:50:22] And we dropped down into that

[00:50:24] Glacier that we'd almost

[00:50:26] Lost our lives in in the

[00:50:28] 2016 Avalanche and

[00:50:30] Andreessen named it the misfit glacier

[00:50:32] He's a big misfits fan

[00:50:34] And

[00:50:36] We just worked up

[00:50:38] The mountain and we knew

[00:50:40] From our previous experiences

[00:50:42] There that there was a cave

[00:50:44] That we could bivvy in so we

[00:50:46] Adopted our pattern from doing it in a

[00:50:48] Day climb to taking

[00:50:50] Multiple days of gear

[00:50:52] To ensure our success

[00:50:54] That we weren't gonna get cut back by

[00:50:56] Running out of food or fuel

[00:50:58] And

[00:51:00] Just had this incredible night in this

[00:51:02] Giant luxurious cave where we

[00:51:04] Could take our harnesses and crampons off

[00:51:06] And walk around and

[00:51:08] Complete safety and then

[00:51:10] Completely mentally and physically recharge

[00:51:12] And then the next day

[00:51:14] Quests it up and got to the crux pitch

[00:51:16] And

[00:51:18] It was really tough but it went

[00:51:20] And then once we got above that

[00:51:22] And knew that we were gonna get to the top

[00:51:24] By hooker by crook

[00:51:26] We weren't gonna

[00:51:28] Nothing was gonna stop us barring a completely blank wall

[00:51:30] And

[00:51:32] We thought we'd get to the top that day but it took

[00:51:34] Another complete full day of climbing

[00:51:36] And then kind of another

[00:51:38] Day after that to get to the summit

[00:51:40] And then come back down

[00:51:42] Our

[00:51:44] First descent route

[00:51:46] And then drop back down into the glacier

[00:51:48] And then get back to our base camp

[00:51:50] Subsequently been destroyed by

[00:51:52] Winds and carried off

[00:51:54] Our gigantic dome tent

[00:51:56] With all of our food

[00:51:58] So what happened then?

[00:52:00] Yeah, then we just had to survive

[00:52:02] So like, we're like, ah this sucks

[00:52:04] It's terrible and we were

[00:52:06] Just kind of coping in this

[00:52:08] We found the fly of the tent and made this

[00:52:10] Circus tent parachute type

[00:52:12] Survival

[00:52:14] Area but we didn't really care

[00:52:16] Cause we just finally ticked this incredible

[00:52:18] Thing off and man it felt

[00:52:20] Great

[00:52:22] We were still just kind of reveling in that

[00:52:24] Success and it meant a lot

[00:52:26] For the two of us personally and for me too

[00:52:28] Cause I kind of felt like

[00:52:30] After 13 expeditions into that

[00:52:32] Area

[00:52:34] That I'd finally kind of done

[00:52:36] Everything I had intended to do

[00:52:38] And closed off this

[00:52:40] Vision that I created with

[00:52:42] Seth and

[00:52:44] Yeah, we

[00:52:46] Really hunkered down for a week until the plane

[00:52:48] Could come pick us up but

[00:52:50] What a trip

[00:52:52] So are you guys communicating

[00:52:54] Then I mean you got a saffon

[00:52:56] Yeah and so basically you're like

[00:52:58] Calling an Uber that happens to be

[00:53:00] An airplane and it's just

[00:53:02] Waiting for having a chance to get

[00:53:04] It in there

[00:53:06] A very, very, very expensive Uber

[00:53:08] Yeah

[00:53:10] Yes, I mean that's

[00:53:12] Something that's really

[00:53:14] Like a modern change

[00:53:16] It's not that modern but

[00:53:18] The differences between

[00:53:20] Early expeditions and that

[00:53:22] Was just waiting it out

[00:53:24] And having sort of this

[00:53:26] General pick up date

[00:53:28] That when these guys are going to show up

[00:53:30] And stuff like that

[00:53:32] I remember I went up to Montpereboscos

[00:53:34] In the Unclimables

[00:53:36] We were on the way up there

[00:53:38] And we were like

[00:53:40] Okay, we got to make sure we get a radio

[00:53:42] From these guys

[00:53:44] Because you could I think

[00:53:46] Ren them or whatever

[00:53:48] And then we got down where

[00:53:50] We got all packed up and

[00:53:52] Flew in, we flew in with a helicopter

[00:53:54] And an airplane

[00:53:56] Because the airplane

[00:53:58] The pontoon plane could land on the lake

[00:54:00] Then the chopper slung all

[00:54:02] Our stuff up to the base of

[00:54:04] Montpereboscos

[00:54:06] Got it all out of there

[00:54:08] Chopper takes off

[00:54:10] And then I don't know how long it took us to realize

[00:54:12] We'd forgotten to get a fucking radio

[00:54:14] We had no communication

[00:54:16] With the outside world

[00:54:18] For like

[00:54:20] I think it was 30 days actually

[00:54:22] And uh

[00:54:24] It's kind of a blessing and a curse at the same time

[00:54:26] Yeah, but I mean

[00:54:28] Then like later we were

[00:54:30] You know, we're bored because it did start raining a lot

[00:54:32] And uh, but in these like little

[00:54:34] Flash sun spots

[00:54:36] We you know started like

[00:54:38] Oldering and then one of the guys

[00:54:40] Chris Ryder he took this pretty

[00:54:42] We didn't have pads you know

[00:54:44] And he took this pretty bad fall

[00:54:46] And like scraped up his thigh

[00:54:48] Really bad and like

[00:54:50] All of us were just had that

[00:54:52] Suddenly we're like if you fuck yourself up

[00:54:54] That's it, we're like

[00:54:56] We're not, we're still in here

[00:54:58] For another 15 days like with you

[00:55:00] With a broken femur or whatever

[00:55:02] Because he really like wailed on his thigh

[00:55:04] And every, we just kind of like all

[00:55:06] Alright, well

[00:55:08] Let's go sit in the cave and don't move

[00:55:10] Like it was just kind of really

[00:55:12] This revelation of like oh yeah

[00:55:14] We kind of fucked up not having any sort of communication

[00:55:16] Out here and then of course

[00:55:18] The pickup date didn't work out

[00:55:20] And we were just like

[00:55:22] You know we brawled our stuff up on this

[00:55:24] Ridge where the chopper could land

[00:55:26] And we stopped spent the whole day

[00:55:28] Waiting and like stomping out

[00:55:30] This awesome platform actually

[00:55:32] In the dirt actually

[00:55:34] You know moving huge boulders on this shit

[00:55:36] And then it didn't show up because somewhere between

[00:55:38] Us and them there was you know bad flying conditions

[00:55:40] Even though it was okay where we were

[00:55:42] And we moved all our stuff back down

[00:55:44] Set our tents back up, yeah I was just kind of

[00:55:46] I just remember like this sort of little bit

[00:55:48] Of

[00:55:50] Cause creeping fear the whole time

[00:55:52] At the end of like well are they coming

[00:55:54] Is it happening like what's going on

[00:55:56] Did they forget about us it was kind of wild

[00:55:58] Anyway just like a whole side story

[00:56:00] About the modern way

[00:56:02] Of like you said you have these

[00:56:04] Friends and you have all this communication

[00:56:06] With your pilots and they even come

[00:56:08] And watch you

[00:56:10] Watch over you at some times

[00:56:12] I think you talked about with Mount Hunter

[00:56:14] Yeah it's a

[00:56:16] Incredible

[00:56:18] Thing and very unique there's not

[00:56:20] Too many places in the world where you just fly

[00:56:22] These planes in

[00:56:24] And oftentimes they land you

[00:56:26] Right at the base of these gigantic

[00:56:28] Mountains and then

[00:56:30] You see later I'll be there in two or three weeks

[00:56:32] Or whenever you want to get out but

[00:56:34] It's really really cool

[00:56:36] And I think it's one of my favorite things

[00:56:38] About climbing in Alaska

[00:56:40] Is that involvement with

[00:56:42] Aviation and these super talented pilots

[00:56:44] That really have opened up

[00:56:46] Tremendous access to these mountains

[00:56:48] That you would otherwise

[00:56:50] Have no ability to access

[00:56:52] And

[00:56:54] Especially having them as your friends

[00:56:56] It's really wild

[00:56:58] Because I have been on numerous

[00:57:00] Climes where they

[00:57:02] Fly over just to check you out

[00:57:04] And it's kind of cool to know that

[00:57:06] They're watching out

[00:57:08] And making sure we're on the right path

[00:57:10] And they know where we are

[00:57:12] Just in case it's pretty cool

[00:57:14] Yeah I mean and so

[00:57:16] You close your chapter in the revelations

[00:57:18] With a nice bow

[00:57:20] On top of Golgotha

[00:57:22] And what came next

[00:57:24] So we

[00:57:26] I had this other

[00:57:28] Objective

[00:57:30] On Mount Hunter in Alaska

[00:57:32] Which is the third tallest

[00:57:34] Of the three main peaks

[00:57:36] In the central Alaska range

[00:57:38] And

[00:57:40] This had been an objective that I'd looked at

[00:57:42] For a long time and actually one that

[00:57:44] We had discussed

[00:57:46] Doing with

[00:57:48] Jess Ross Kelly and

[00:57:50] David Lama

[00:57:52] By chance when I was climbing with

[00:57:54] Jack in 2017

[00:57:56] He kind of became my de facto

[00:57:58] New partner

[00:58:00] And very quickly

[00:58:02] Extremely close friend

[00:58:04] And we had again

[00:58:06] Like Seth mapped out this whole decade

[00:58:08] Of things we were going to do in

[00:58:10] Alaska and Pakistan and what not

[00:58:12] And then

[00:58:14] What a crazy experience when

[00:58:16] He got on the North Face team

[00:58:18] And I kind of got on with them

[00:58:20] As a photographer for a little bit

[00:58:22] Of a show and

[00:58:24] One of the North Face guys comes up

[00:58:26] And goes hey

[00:58:28] You guys should try and climb with David Lama

[00:58:30] We're like what

[00:58:32] Us

[00:58:34] Me

[00:58:36] I'm not David Lama worthy you know

[00:58:38] It's super crazy but we found

[00:58:40] Ourselves on this going on this expedition

[00:58:42] To Mount Logan to go try and do this

[00:58:44] Unclimbed route on the south

[00:58:46] East face

[00:58:48] But the weather was so bad and we weren't sure

[00:58:50] How we were going to be able to get in

[00:58:52] And so we

[00:58:54] I showed them this line on

[00:58:56] Mount Hunter that I wanted to do

[00:58:58] And we almost went and did that

[00:59:00] But then we ended up getting into

[00:59:02] Mount Logan and

[00:59:04] So this was just something that

[00:59:06] Jess and I were going to do

[00:59:08] And then of course you know

[00:59:10] Tragically they all

[00:59:12] Died on House Peak

[00:59:14] But

[00:59:16] Eventually I put that line

[00:59:18] On my goal and

[00:59:20] I went back and did that this year

[00:59:22] With

[00:59:24] A local friend August Frenzen

[00:59:26] From Alaska and

[00:59:28] We tried it the year before

[00:59:30] And had some

[00:59:32] Bad weather once we got up there

[00:59:34] I took a monster crevasse fall

[00:59:36] On the approach

[00:59:38] But again just like other

[00:59:40] Peaks we learned a lot

[00:59:42] From that failure

[00:59:44] And I think ultimately

[00:59:46] It's kind of cool to not get up

[00:59:48] Really hard objectives your first time

[00:59:50] Because it just makes it

[00:59:52] Mean that much more when you finally

[00:59:54] Do find success right

[00:59:56] If something if you flash

[00:59:58] Your project like the very first time

[01:00:00] Then you're like oh that

[01:00:02] Wasn't that hard but if you have to work at it for a year

[01:00:04] To or 14

[01:00:06] Then

[01:00:08] When you finally do

[01:00:10] Send it it means a lot

[01:00:12] And so he and I

[01:00:14] August we went in there

[01:00:16] And it's like we just paid our dues

[01:00:18] The weather was finally really good

[01:00:20] And it just went

[01:00:22] According to plan

[01:00:24] We spent three days up on that

[01:00:26] Thing and found

[01:00:28] Exceptionally beautiful hard climbing

[01:00:30] But

[01:00:32] Traversed the whole

[01:00:34] Massif and came down and like

[01:00:36] Like whoa we just did that thing

[01:00:38] And like didn't really have any epics

[01:00:40] What's going on you know like we didn't have any avalanches

[01:00:42] Didn't fall any crevasses this year

[01:00:44] The weather was good like

[01:00:46] That's weird

[01:00:48] Maybe that wasn't so hard after all

[01:00:52] It's like when you downgrade

[01:00:54] Your project because you finally sent it and you're like

[01:00:56] When you send it you feel good

[01:00:58] And it's like well that wasn't that hard

[01:01:00] What was my problem

[01:01:02] No that's interesting it's like yeah

[01:01:04] I mean I just the story

[01:01:06] Of

[01:01:08] Golgotha and I guess this

[01:01:10] Kind of a microcosm is

[01:01:12] It's such I think it's just this interesting

[01:01:14] Story because it's revealing

[01:01:16] As to what goes into this climb

[01:01:18] This style of climbing

[01:01:20] Because that

[01:01:22] Golgotha

[01:01:24] Was just like I said you put in

[01:01:26] These building blocks you

[01:01:28] Understood the route and you'd have most

[01:01:30] Of the route done and then that little bit

[01:01:32] Of information about the cave

[01:01:34] Changed everything as well

[01:01:36] And it's just kind of cool that red

[01:01:38] Point again red point alpinism

[01:01:40] Mentality

[01:01:42] I've never thought about it like that

[01:01:44] But I do like that like for example

[01:01:46] We're going to go back

[01:01:48] To Alaska this spring

[01:01:50] And we have this objective

[01:01:52] And

[01:01:54] I would love to get to the top

[01:01:56] This year but I'm already in my mind

[01:01:58] Going hey this project

[01:02:00] Is super hard for me

[01:02:02] This could take ten years to figure out

[01:02:04] And I'm okay with that

[01:02:06] And that's something I didn't really

[01:02:08] Think of in that way

[01:02:10] Even five years ago

[01:02:12] So I wanted to kind of ask you about like

[01:02:16] Your stoke and you know

[01:02:20] You know and sort of your longevity

[01:02:22] Not just of your life but of

[01:02:24] Like this stoke to just keep going

[01:02:26] Back and doing things you know

[01:02:28] You sort of describe yourself as

[01:02:30] That was one of the things that you thought

[01:02:32] Maybe was appealing to Seth

[01:02:34] That you were stoked and you had all this energy

[01:02:36] And you would show up

[01:02:38] I think about the kind of

[01:02:40] Expedition grind you know

[01:02:42] Next year we're doing this and then after that

[01:02:44] We're doing this and as soon as you're in the plane

[01:02:46] Leaving the one thing you're thinking

[01:02:48] About the next thing or whatever

[01:02:50] Like how was that like maintained

[01:02:52] And how do you feel like it's evolved

[01:02:54] In your mind and do you ever

[01:02:56] Yeah do you ever think like

[01:02:58] Just like on this wheel

[01:03:00] And grinding these things out

[01:03:02] Is it all still enough magic for you

[01:03:04] That it's like burning

[01:03:06] It just kind of does feel like

[01:03:08] It's something that

[01:03:10] Intrinsically I still want to do

[01:03:14] Living in Alaska I know a lot of

[01:03:16] Nordic ski racers who

[01:03:18] Throughout high school that was

[01:03:20] All they did and they got pushed

[01:03:22] Super hard and then

[01:03:24] They raced at super high levels

[01:03:26] Nationally, internationally

[01:03:28] And now they just kind of

[01:03:30] Don't really ski anymore and

[01:03:32] I think I've always

[01:03:34] Kind of looked at

[01:03:36] Alpinism and specifically

[01:03:38] Climbing in general as

[01:03:40] Something that I want to do for my whole life

[01:03:42] In some capacity but I think Alpinism

[01:03:44] Has an expiration date

[01:03:46] And

[01:03:48] Knowing that I feel like

[01:03:50] I just want to give it

[01:03:52] My best within reason

[01:03:54] While still living a balanced life

[01:03:56] For as long as I can

[01:03:58] And as safely as I can

[01:04:00] Or until I just

[01:04:02] Realize that I'm done

[01:04:04] And that hasn't

[01:04:06] Happened for me yet

[01:04:08] And then I draw a ton

[01:04:10] Of collective stoke from

[01:04:12] Seeing my

[01:04:14] Friends and people who I

[01:04:16] I know casually or

[01:04:18] Who I just respect, you know

[01:04:20] From seeing in the mountains like

[01:04:22] Jackson and Matt and Alan

[01:04:24] I mean dude

[01:04:26] Stoke me so much

[01:04:28] Right and

[01:04:30] I think anybody who's a climber and looked at that

[01:04:32] Got incredibly excited

[01:04:34] Their presentation or what they did

[01:04:36] Oh I mean when I saw that photo

[01:04:40] That they'd done that

[01:04:42] And knowing in the background

[01:04:44] That they had been trying that for a couple of years

[01:04:46] I was like oh man

[01:04:48] I'm not trying hard enough

[01:04:50] I need to keep going

[01:04:52] And that to me

[01:04:54] That got me as psyched as like

[01:04:56] Any Mark Twight poster I

[01:04:58] Saw 20 years ago

[01:05:00] It totally reinvigorated my stoke

[01:05:02] As somebody who's approaching

[01:05:04] 40 years old

[01:05:06] And then at the same time I try and be that

[01:05:08] For other people

[01:05:10] In whatever capacity

[01:05:12] Limited as it is that I have

[01:05:14] Just trying to be a positive force

[01:05:16] And motivate people

[01:05:18] And then I get stoked

[01:05:20] From like 25 year old

[01:05:22] Kids who are climbing harder than I ever was

[01:05:24] At 25 and now like they're my

[01:05:26] Partners

[01:05:28] And I just try to

[01:05:30] I think just stay

[01:05:32] Stay in the game

[01:05:34] What's um

[01:05:36] You just mentioned the expiration date

[01:05:38] Like you just said that as a fact

[01:05:40] Like Alpinism has an expiration date

[01:05:42] Are you talking about your body falling apart

[01:05:44] I mean there's obviously

[01:05:46] The horrible expiration date

[01:05:48] That can happen

[01:05:50] You kind of what does that

[01:05:52] What does that mean to you when you said that

[01:05:54] Because I mean you know Steve Swenson would disagree

[01:05:56] You know

[01:05:58] He would agree but he's

[01:06:00] He's gotten way out past what people would

[01:06:02] Normally I think consider like

[01:06:04] The age or whatever that

[01:06:06] You hang it up

[01:06:08] God we would all love

[01:06:10] To be a Steve Swenson

[01:06:12] Or Jack Tackler, Jay Smith

[01:06:14] Or whatnot

[01:06:16] But

[01:06:18] I think that

[01:06:20] For most people there just comes a time

[01:06:22] When your body or your mind

[01:06:24] Or life

[01:06:26] You know kids, job

[01:06:28] Whatever just

[01:06:30] Forces you to hang it up and

[01:06:32] I don't know when that's gonna

[01:06:34] Come for me or what will

[01:06:36] Be the deciding factor

[01:06:38] But I just want to do it for as long as I

[01:06:40] Can and as long as I really want to

[01:06:42] And there's been times where

[01:06:44] Like for a long time I felt like I needed

[01:06:46] To be a Steve Swenson

[01:06:48] Or something that I didn't know

[01:06:50] But I was like I'm in a position

[01:06:52] It was just something that I did

[01:06:54] It was oh it's spring

[01:06:56] I go to the Alaska range

[01:06:58] And now I try to listen to my

[01:07:00] Internal psych

[01:07:02] And make sure that I really am

[01:07:04] It's what I want to do

[01:07:06] And if I don't want to then I don't

[01:07:08] Then I go climbing somewhere else

[01:07:10] In the desert where I actually

[01:07:12] Get more climbing in

[01:07:14] What else I mean where else are your

[01:07:16] Passions for this alpinism thing

[01:07:18] And have you gone to altitude

[01:07:20] And you know messed with that

[01:07:22] Kind of thing. Yeah I've been

[01:07:24] To Patagonia I've stood on top

[01:07:26] Of Fitzroy and tried Sarotore

[01:07:28] And I've been in Nepal twice

[01:07:30] And you know the thing that

[01:07:32] Like for me personally

[01:07:34] I would love to go climbing in Pakistan more

[01:07:36] But it just comes down to finding

[01:07:38] That balance in life

[01:07:40] And with the jobs I've worked in

[01:07:42] For the past it hasn't really worked out

[01:07:44] For the season to allow

[01:07:46] That but I think what I've ultimately

[01:07:48] Come to realize is that for me

[01:07:50] Like I really just love climbing

[01:07:52] In Alaska and so if I only have

[01:07:54] So much time I want to dedicate

[01:07:56] As much of my time

[01:07:58] To climbing in Alaska for now

[01:08:00] And I still hope to get to

[01:08:02] Pakistan and do some big stuff

[01:08:04] But I remember being

[01:08:06] In Nepal and

[01:08:08] It was just kind of dry

[01:08:10] And I remember it was April

[01:08:12] And I was really just sitting there

[01:08:14] I'm on this dream vacation

[01:08:16] Trying to climb a cool peak

[01:08:18] But I just kept wishing that I was back home

[01:08:20] Climbing on the beautiful pristine glaciers

[01:08:22] In Alaska and flying in

[01:08:24] On a plane and

[01:08:26] I think it's just like

[01:08:28] It's where all of my really good memories are

[01:08:30] And then I get to occasionally

[01:08:32] Add to that pile

[01:08:34] Of memories there and I really like that

[01:08:36] You mentioned being

[01:08:38] Kind of surprised or waking up

[01:08:40] One day and realizing you're a mentor

[01:08:42] Now to some of these younger people

[01:08:44] That you're climbing with even though

[01:08:46] This guy August is

[01:08:48] According to you a better climber than you are

[01:08:50] That's not as important as the experience

[01:08:52] That you have when it comes right down to it

[01:08:54] Have you found yourself in a position

[01:08:56] Of

[01:08:58] Being

[01:09:00] That guy that can sort of give

[01:09:02] The comfort or the

[01:09:04] Advice about losing partners

[01:09:06] And I say that because

[01:09:08] You know I talked to

[01:09:10] I've talked to Conrad a lot

[01:09:12] About that part of his life

[01:09:14] And part of his

[01:09:16] Not just on the podcast but privately

[01:09:18] And you know when Hayden died

[01:09:20] And stuff like that he was sort of

[01:09:22] Had some wisdom or

[01:09:24] Maybe he didn't have wisdom

[01:09:26] But it was someone who'd understood

[01:09:28] What it was like to lose somebody like that

[01:09:30] Do you feel like you're capable

[01:09:32] Of giving any advice on that

[01:09:34] Level for younger climbers

[01:09:36] Who either haven't experienced it yet

[01:09:38] Or did

[01:09:40] After your sort of years

[01:09:42] In the game?

[01:09:44] I think in some ways like

[01:09:46] I'm kind of like known as the guy that's lost

[01:09:48] A lot of climbing partners never

[01:09:50] Never on a trip with me

[01:09:52] But peripherally

[01:09:54] And I think

[01:09:56] I just encourage people to

[01:09:58] Be honest and be true

[01:10:00] And tell them what they feel

[01:10:02] You know

[01:10:04] I tell my friends I love them all the time

[01:10:06] And I try to urge

[01:10:08] You know my friends who are

[01:10:10] I consider equals or even better than me

[01:10:12] And then those coming up

[01:10:14] Like just be careful

[01:10:16] Like make good choices

[01:10:18] And I try and

[01:10:20] Teach the younger climbers

[01:10:22] All the mistakes that I made so that

[01:10:24] They don't have to make them because I

[01:10:26] That's the only way I really learned was by

[01:10:28] Taking the wrong turn before I took the right one

[01:10:30] I really hope that

[01:10:32] We've rounded the corner and I can see

[01:10:34] All my young climber friends

[01:10:36] Become full-fledged

[01:10:38] Adults

[01:10:40] And be 40 and survive their 20s

[01:10:42] But

[01:10:44] I've got young friends who are

[01:10:46] Soloing big grade six ice routes

[01:10:48] In the Canadian Rockies and stuff

[01:10:50] That's cool man

[01:10:52] Stop that

[01:10:56] But

[01:10:58] All you can do is really just

[01:11:00] Offer your best and hope that they are

[01:11:02] Truly making sound decisions

[01:11:04] Yeah, I mean because the irony of

[01:11:06] All that is that

[01:11:08] Your 20 year old self

[01:11:10] Wouldn't have necessarily listened to your 40 year old

[01:11:12] Self even if you could

[01:11:14] Drop in and talk to that dude

[01:11:16] Because that's the way you are when you're

[01:11:18] That age

[01:11:20] I used to tell my 18 year old

[01:11:22] Students that

[01:11:24] They were like at the point in their life

[01:11:26] Where the difference between what they thought

[01:11:28] They knew and what they actually knew was the widest

[01:11:30] Like you think you know everything right now

[01:11:32] And you don't know shit

[01:11:34] And when you're 12 or whatever

[01:11:36] You know, you're aware that

[01:11:38] You don't know things

[01:11:40] But it's a weird thing like for those

[01:11:42] Those years you think you know everything

[01:11:44] You don't know shit

[01:11:46] It's just hard to advise those people

[01:11:48] In these like hard lessons

[01:11:50] Oh my god I look back

[01:11:52] At these old photos and videos

[01:11:54] Of even just a decade ago

[01:11:56] Oh my god I thought I knew it all

[01:11:58] In climbing and

[01:12:00] Now it's like almost embarrassing to look at those

[01:12:02] Old photos and videos

[01:12:04] You're like what a gaper

[01:12:08] Like we've been saying at least you can

[01:12:10] At least you can look back

[01:12:12] Awesome dude, thank you

[01:12:24] Alright folks thanks for listening

[01:12:26] And thanks to Clint

[01:12:28] For pulling that one off

[01:12:30] Wasn't so sure

[01:12:32] At 9 o'clock in the morning

[01:12:34] Was gonna work out but he called me

[01:12:36] I was in the hot tub, he said I'm ready to go

[01:12:38] I said alright let me dry off

[01:12:40] And we got it done

[01:12:42] I couldn't remember a thing we talked about

[01:12:44] And then when I went and edited it

[01:12:46] I was like wow this is awesome

[01:12:48] I'm like I'm gonna go get it done

[01:12:50] I'm gonna go get it done

[01:12:52] I was like wow this is awesome

[01:12:54] Alaska climbing is such its own thing

[01:12:56] Isn't it? Do you guys dip into

[01:12:58] Evan Phillips podcast The Fern Line?

[01:13:00] I'm sure most of you do or have

[01:13:02] I'm not a completist

[01:13:04] But I definitely dip in and think

[01:13:06] What Evan's doing at the Fern Line

[01:13:08] Is pretty awesome

[01:13:10] He's become the archivist

[01:13:12] Of Alaska climbing

[01:13:14] Northern Canada

[01:13:16] All that stuff, good podcast

[01:13:18] Okay folks I will not be

[01:13:20] Alpine climbing anytime soon

[01:13:22] But I will be getting out and rock climbing

[01:13:24] The season is upon us here

[01:13:26] In Colorado and the desert

[01:13:28] It's warming up

[01:13:30] Also there's an eclipse tomorrow and some people say

[01:13:32] It's the rapture that's gonna happen

[01:13:34] Cutting right across the south there

[01:13:36] The rapture does occur

[01:13:38] That just means you know

[01:13:40] Cliffs are gonna be a little less crowded on Tuesday

[01:13:42] So get out there

[01:13:44] Because Lord knows pun intended

[01:13:46] Most of us ain't going to the rapture

[01:13:48] Let's face it

[01:13:50] That's okay

[01:13:52] We like to suffer down here in our mortal coils

[01:13:54] Climbing these rocks for no good reason

[01:13:56] And besides

[01:13:58] Nice spring day at the crag

[01:14:00] With your friends

[01:14:02] Hell, you might think you're already in heaven

[01:14:04] But let's not hurry to the afterlife

[01:14:06] So don't forget to check your knots

[01:14:18] Music

[01:14:30] First we need to find

[01:14:32] Our in reach

[01:14:34] Shit

[01:14:38] Oh god

[01:14:40] Oh

[01:14:46] Oh fuck

[01:14:48] I don't know man, I mean like

[01:14:56] You should film that dude

[01:14:58] I'm filming it right now

[01:15:04] We were able to run

[01:15:06] We got hit by a powder blast

[01:15:10] Okay our kitchen just got ripped to shit

[01:15:12] That's our kitchen

[01:15:14] Our tent

[01:15:16] Don't step right here, that's our kitchen

[01:15:18] We can like pick up our tent

[01:15:20] Fucking move

[01:15:22] So I just as far away as we can get

[01:15:24] I gotta find my gloves

[01:15:26] My gloves got buried

[01:15:28] Our tent might be fucking destroyed too

[01:15:30] Yeah dude

[01:15:32] Holy shit

[01:15:34] Ssh

[01:15:38] Yeah our tent is fucking destroyed dude

[01:15:40] This is super fucked

[01:15:42] Music

[01:16:10] Music