Continue reading "Enormocast 282: Natalia Grossman – The Tyranny of Expectations"
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[00:04:00] Hello and welcome to the enormous cast. This is your host, Chris Clues.
[00:04:03] It is March 20th, 2024 about 2 o'clock in the afternoon here in Colorado.
[00:04:11] And this is episode 282 of the enormous cast, a conversation with Natalia Grossman.
[00:04:18] And welcome to springtime. It is officially springtime.
[00:04:22] The equinox was some point in the last like 24 to 48 hours and yeah, I'm psyched.
[00:04:29] I know we got a lot of winter climbers out there that like this podcast and winter climbing
[00:04:34] is cool but even the winter climbers once in a while like the sun warming their backs on some rock.
[00:04:41] So welcome to it, welcome to springtime and yes on today's show we have Natalia Grossman who primarily climbs indoors
[00:04:48] where it is always springtime minus the rain but sometimes with the swampy humidity as the case may be.
[00:04:55] Yeah, Natalia Grossman on the show today reaching across into that comp world.
[00:05:01] But I want to noted that this year, just a couple of few episodes ago we had the now past giant Rural Robbins.
[00:05:12] And the reason I want to point that out is just the variety you get here on the enormous cast.
[00:05:17] I mean are there two climbers that have their tendrils connected by history but maybe attitudes farther apart than someone like Natalia Grossman and Rural Robbins?
[00:05:29] I don't know, maybe they're on the same plane of existence and I'm just looking at it wrong but nevertheless it's quite a variety here on the show.
[00:05:36] And I don't know, I guess I just want that in my personal file. I want HR to know about that so I'm bringing it up.
[00:05:43] I don't really have any business so I'll just take a moment to point out that the shop is still up.
[00:05:48] It did not crash my website as I expected when I put it up in the fall last year.
[00:05:53] I re up the merchandise all I have over there is kuzis and stickers and you can actually get the stickers for free.
[00:06:00] I put a note on there it's sort of a volunteer pay system.
[00:06:04] I'm just that kind of businessman and give everything away for free which is to say the shitty kind.
[00:06:09] Yeah, go over to itnormacast.com check out the shop if you want to support the podcast in some other way than just listening.
[00:06:16] There's the bromuda triangle kuzis over there as well as the stickers if you feel like paying for one.
[00:06:22] It's only a little cover postage printing that kind of thing and I usually sneak an extra one in there for you too.
[00:06:29] Have you guys put stickers notice that and kuzis you guys usually get a sticker to I just give the stickers away anyway I can't help it.
[00:06:35] Alright on to Natalia Grossman as you guys are well aware we don't talk to the comp climbers very much on the normacast but I don't know why as you recall
[00:06:44] I got along quite well last time we did this I think it's last time I might be forgetting some of these so many of these climbers crossover so much to rock climbing and I sometimes get them late in their career when
[00:06:58] when things are winding down in the comp scene but not Natalia she sort of the phenom and USA climbing at least on the women's side.
[00:07:05] She's our current qualifier in the women's side for the Olympics for lead and bouldering.
[00:07:11] We also have a couple speed climbers that have qualified Emma hunt and Piper Kelly for the speed side of things but remember this year speed is a separate category which is where it should be not just for the reasons we all bagged on last time but because we can bring the best competitors for that discipline to the games now and that did not happen last year
[00:07:31] and I think it was a real kind of cruel maneuver as far as the speed climbers were concerned so we'll get the best of the speed climbers this way.
[00:07:39] On the other side lead and boulder are still combined Natalia is qualified she's headed there but we caught her about a month ago in between period getting ready for spring comps and then ramping up to the Olympics.
[00:07:52] It's a nice chat with a chill Natalia we talk about how she's had to take it actually down a notch to get better which is a fascinating almost dauest kind of way of doing things.
[00:08:04] She didn't frame it that way I'm doing that because that's what I do is put all sorts of intense meeting on everything incidentally I've been trying the same method for about a decade, decade and a half and it's not working as well for me as it is for Natalia.
[00:08:18] But yeah Natalia is trying to keep it cool keep the intensity and the pressure at bay just get ready to represent the entire country at the Olympics no big deal so let's check it out.
[00:08:32] A conversation with Olympic qualifier Natalia Grossman oh and all you crusty bastards that listen to this thing listen in this is an education it's good to hear from these kids okay she's like the best in the brightest we got out there.
[00:08:47] She deserves your attention.
[00:09:05] And so what does the next six months look like for you?
[00:09:07] I'm going to be here in Salt Lake a bit just live in life and then I'm gonna go to Europe for about a month or like I'm just gonna be traveling for about a month and then I'll be back in Salt Lake for a pretty long time.
[00:09:25] And then I'll do like a world cup in Europe so go out there again in June and then come back for a bit a few weeks before heading to the games.
[00:09:35] So a lot of good chunks of home time as well as travel time.
[00:09:54] What does chilling look like for you?
[00:10:24] I feel like doing this today rather like right now I'm like okay I want to hit power once a week I want to hit endurance once a week like I have certain goals it's like a little more structured but it's still pretty loosely structured because I think I learned from from last year that too much structure is not good for me.
[00:10:45] Oh yeah tell me about that a little bit what did that how to that manifest itself structure and what it what it looked like you know it made you unhappy or made you perform less well.
[00:10:57] I think I was really strict with my program and so I was like okay like this is what I'm doing like I have to stick with this like I have to do this doesn't matter like how I feel like this is what I plan to do so like this is what I'm going to do.
[00:11:10] And I'd say now I'm like I listen to my body a lot more I'm like oh like I feel tired I'm just not going to push it and that's okay and I shouldn't feel bad about that or you know if other people are psyched to like keep climbing but like I feel like I'm kind of done just being like I'm doing what's best for me or maybe the other way around like I'm really psyched one day and I want to keep climbing and other people are done.
[00:11:33] Like not letting other people like influence or other athletes who I'm like training close to or with sometimes affect my program and yeah I think last year out like making the Olympics was such a big goal of mine that was like so focused on it.
[00:11:50] I felt like I had to do like everything I'm like I have to do Boulder I have to rope climb I have to do like strength endurance and like I was just trying to do like everything every day and that was just not sustainable long term.
[00:12:03] And yeah I just wasn't psyched to go into the gym like wasn't really that happy like being there was pretty like tired yeah I was kind of just like over training I'd say.
[00:12:14] And so being able to like take a step back now and like see that I think is a good step into like have made these changes you know for the past while now I've reduced my volume a lot and has just got me a lot more psyched and I like see the gains and just keeps things fun.
[00:12:34] Well at least you don't have to train speed climbing right.
[00:12:37] That is true I haven't touched a speed wall since 2019.
[00:12:42] Yeah I don't think anybody at least in your part of the competition scene are super bummed about that but as you're discovering this right like you are starting to reflect on how you're feeling and how you're performing.
[00:12:58] Does that something that you discovered or was it something that maybe your teammates or your coaches started to realize like was this a revelation that you had on your own or was it something that some other people may be noticed as well and kind of pushed you towards.
[00:13:15] Yeah I think working with my PT he writes a lot of my like or he writes all my programs like my off the wall like training and he's very into like the scientific side of things and just like which energy systems you should be taxing and whatnot.
[00:13:35] And like he definitely noticed and then he started monitoring my workload after we kind of realized that there was this crash like I think I did a lot of reflecting at the end of the season and I was like oh yeah like that what was I doing and I like brought back concern up to him and he's like yeah I noticed just like your energy like blah blah blah let's make changes.
[00:13:57] So we did they like started monitoring my workload and like now we can like see you know there's a graph and if we start getting too high then it's good but like you don't want to get too high and it's like all scientific and it's like you rate your day on a scale of 1 to 10 and then by the amount of time like how long you were climbing and it like produces this number.
[00:14:17] And it's a scale that's used across many different sports but it's like you want to be between like point nine and like 1.1 1.2 and if you're like oh like that week was pretty high then it's just it's a lot easier to like monitor it and so that hopefully I like never get back into like that overt training fatigue state because if you're keeping track of it there's it's a lot harder to get there.
[00:14:42] So you use this really strict structure to get a little less structured is that what you're trying to say yeah.
[00:14:50] Well it doesn't feel it doesn't feel strict because it's just like it takes literally like 30 seconds not even like 5 seconds and you're like oh yeah I climbed for this long and I'd say I felt like it was like a 7 or 8.
[00:15:03] Okay good but more just like with my climbing like doing what I want to do in the session and being like okay yeah like I want to do a little bit of power and some compelters and just kind of going with the flow.
[00:15:18] In that sense.
[00:15:20] What's your downtime look like.
[00:15:22] What do you do what are you doing you're in your like non climbing time yeah I mean you were going to school on that seems.
[00:15:29] Kind of frantic as well loading that on to what you do is training but what else do you do.
[00:15:36] I mean I love school I graduated like about a year ago and then like last fall or sorry last like winter spring was like the first time I wasn't in school.
[00:15:47] And I think that's honestly what led to like the overtraining is because I had all this time all of the sudden that like I wasn't used to.
[00:15:56] So then in the fall I started taking some courses and things that I am passionate about mainly like psychology because that's what I got my degree in.
[00:16:05] And so yeah I was just like taking courses you can get like a certificate and put it on a resume and I just like learning as that that's something I got really into reading.
[00:16:17] So I'd say like every week I kind of have a new book that I'm reading all kinds of things genres.
[00:16:25] And then like I'm currently like really into painting as well.
[00:16:32] So just like non athletic activities that are nice and obviously just like hanging out with friends and family.
[00:16:40] I think it's like my biggest downtime activity.
[00:16:43] I think I saw that you started climbing at six or so super early when did it kind of become you know this thing that you were pretty much dedicating.
[00:16:54] You know most of your free time are you know when it had become so serious that it.
[00:17:00] You had coaches and you had schedules and you were in the gym basically all the time.
[00:17:04] But what taught what what how old were you in that kind of happened when it became like that instead of just a hobby or this fun thing you did or maybe started a birthday party like so many people did or I'm not sure but yeah where was that transition.
[00:17:17] Did you started a birthday party?
[00:17:19] No, I did not.
[00:17:20] Okay.
[00:17:21] I'd say maybe so I was doing gymnastics when I first started climbing.
[00:17:27] So maybe but like when I quit gymnastics and decided to just focus on climbing that was probably like the first step even though I didn't really realize it at the time.
[00:17:39] But yeah, I joined a climbing team and it was like a two hour drive away and my parents were like well realistically like you can't go to both because some days I
[00:17:50] was going straight from one practice to the other and just like you know straight from school then having like five to six hours of activities.
[00:17:59] I don't there's no way I could do that now.
[00:18:01] I don't know how I had all this energy I guess it to do everything.
[00:18:06] Then like I had to like sacrifice some like gymnastics competitions for climbing competitions and vice versa.
[00:18:12] So yeah by joining this team, I think that was like the first step because then not only was I committing but like my parents were committing
[00:18:19] because they were driving me and then yeah, I was probably like 10 or 11 and then when I was 15 and I moved to Boulder that was definitely for climbing that was really big step.
[00:18:30] Yeah we'll get to that but why did it replace gymnastics you think?
[00:18:35] Like what was the what was the shift?
[00:18:37] What did you see in it that wasn't happened in gymnastics or were you just better at it?
[00:18:41] I think I really liked the community.
[00:18:43] It was a lot I feel like climb is grown so much now but back then it was pretty small
[00:18:48] and it was just more welcoming.
[00:18:51] Yeah I was better at it maybe but I don't think that really influenced why I wanted to go that way.
[00:18:59] I think I liked a big reason I like climbing more than gymnastics is that every day is different.
[00:19:06] Like you can go into the gym and like do new climbs all the time, you can learn new movements all the time
[00:19:11] and gymnastics was like always the same thing over and over again.
[00:19:15] So just having like that variety and a space to just try new things and like keep learning
[00:19:24] instead of like trying to perfect one thing and definitely drew me in and to climbing more.
[00:19:31] Yeah I had friends who you know I saw once a year at Nationals and it was all exciting and yeah
[00:19:36] just I knew the people and it was easy just to like feel like I knew everyone and yeah was supported.
[00:19:43] Are you an only child? Do you have brothers and sisters?
[00:19:46] I'm an only child.
[00:19:48] Okay your parents seem to be like I mean supportive as parents have ever been in the history
[00:19:56] of the world basically if someone wanted to do something and that's just out of surface glances.
[00:20:03] So maybe fill that in tell me about the support of your folks and you know this willingness
[00:20:08] to drive you around and all at first and then also seeming like they are probably monitoring pretty
[00:20:14] closely your mental health and your ability to do like a million things at once.
[00:20:20] Yeah so tell me about tell me about your folks and how they fit into this because it seems like
[00:20:24] they are the pillar kind of on which you're standing you know.
[00:20:27] Well first off like I love my parents and they're like my best friend and I feel really lucky
[00:20:34] to like have that relationship with them and to like have this support that like if I get last
[00:20:41] they don't care. Like they they have no idea. That's how you used to feel.
[00:20:45] I was like they have no idea like what climbing is and like sometimes it was frustrating because
[00:20:50] I'd be like I wanted them to like be more involved and it's not that they weren't involved.
[00:20:55] They were very involved in like supporting me but like they didn't know all the terminology or
[00:21:01] I come home and be like I just did this and they're like that's awesome but I'm like but you
[00:21:05] don't even know what that means. You know I did this ridiculous mantle and I had to like
[00:21:10] like they're like exactly. That's so awesome honey. Yeah and so like I remember the first time my
[00:21:17] dad was like oh yeah like theorette and I was like you know what an arrest it made me so happy
[00:21:23] and so like obviously now they like I mean they know a lot more because of me and and what not
[00:21:30] but like they didn't know anything about climbing so I think sometimes being around people who
[00:21:35] you know their parents like grew up or when they were growing up their parents were climbing their
[00:21:40] parents. I have always climbed. I was like oh like I wish my parents you know understood on that
[00:21:46] level but I think now looking back I'm very happy they didn't because it allowed there to be like
[00:21:52] no pressure. I didn't feel like I had to do this for them or anything like that and I grew up
[00:21:58] going to a monastery school I don't know if you know what that is but my mom has worked at a
[00:22:04] monastery school for like 30 years and Maria want to story the founder one of her her saying is
[00:22:12] to follow the child and so that's literally what my parents did they like wanted to do that the
[00:22:19] best that they could for me in like a reasonable regard obviously and yeah I was like I want to
[00:22:27] join this team like it's the best one and they're like okay like we'll drive once a week because
[00:22:33] they weren't going to drive you know four hours get every practice and that was more than enough for
[00:22:39] me like I didn't I never expected them to do anything and looking back now I'm like wow I'm just
[00:22:46] really lucky that it was like their idea you know I mentioned I was then I had the idea of like wanting
[00:22:51] to move to Boulder. That'd just be so cool like I wish I had like strong people to climb with
[00:22:56] and they're like why don't we and I was like what like really like you just want to go
[00:23:01] and my mom was like yeah that's I knew this part of the story and that's truly amazing
[00:23:05] and you have to kind of yeah keep going because I want you to fill it in yeah. My mom was like yeah
[00:23:11] I mean I can like find work there and my dad has like worked from home my whole life and so
[00:23:21] they were kind of like yeah like if you want to and I was like oh but like my friends and blah blah blah
[00:23:26] it was like a good time because I was just ending middle school I had gone to the same school
[00:23:34] since I was two years old so like for 13 years I had gone to the same school I had the same
[00:23:41] friends and then all of my friends were gonna go to like this private school in Santa Cruz
[00:23:49] and I knew that like my family couldn't afford that and like the only reason I could go to
[00:23:53] Montessori school was because like my mom worked there and so like tuition was practically free
[00:23:59] and that was something that was really hard for me because maybe now like I just had never
[00:24:06] really thought about it but looking back maybe that was like the one time where like they couldn't
[00:24:10] support me in like a decision. I don't want to go to a public high school in Santa Cruz. I mean
[00:24:17] in Boulder it's very different like the public high schools are great but it's different in
[00:24:23] Santa Cruz you know you've got gangs and whatnot and not the same vibe and so it was just like a good
[00:24:29] time to move I guess just have a change make a change and yeah we ended up moving six months after
[00:24:37] the idea first came up and then moved to Boulder and had to make sacrifices like it wasn't easy.
[00:24:44] I think some people I don't know I remember reading comments on Instagram like she says spoiled
[00:24:49] like her parents do anything and I remember it was like during COVID I got a moon board
[00:24:54] and I was like actually like I paid for that myself. I don't know we don't need to get into that but
[00:25:00] hate comments are not fun yeah anyways where is it going with it? Just talking about the sacrifice.
[00:25:07] Yeah sacrifices so like we were living in an apartment for the first time which was definitely
[00:25:13] an interesting experience and like a challenge for all of us and selling a car and things
[00:25:19] like that looking back I'm just so lucky that my parents like wanted to support me that
[00:25:25] in that way at such a young age because like when you're 15 like I don't know I could say this one
[00:25:31] day and like have a completely different thought the next day but they knew I guess that I was
[00:25:37] really serious about climbing and so they wanted to do what they could and like provide the
[00:25:42] most that they could and yeah joined team ABC and was able to I guess pursue my climbing career
[00:25:53] even if at the time I wasn't thinking I mean I don't even think the Olympics were a thing back then
[00:25:58] but like I wasn't thinking I want to be like a world cup climber I want to do this in that. I was
[00:26:04] just like I want to make youth worlds I want to win or like not even win because I had to compete with
[00:26:10] like people who I was just like I'm never going to beat them but I want to like podium or do
[00:26:18] well at nationals and so I was trying to pursue that which is very like I'll come oriented looking
[00:26:24] at it now but I feel like so many youth climbers look at it like that like you have
[00:26:29] nationals and now it's only once a year so you're training all year for this one comp and that's
[00:26:37] a lot of pressure for and then like you're just devastated if it doesn't go well for I was.
[00:26:42] You know so there's this film that just came out a real rock film sort of mid-year real rock film
[00:26:48] the smile and fight you know and that's kind of the theme you know that Natalia is you know it's
[00:26:54] smiling all the time and you know sitting here talking to you it's like yeah your demeanor is just
[00:27:00] really pleasant which is you know a little bit of a loaded word sometimes and that's kind of what
[00:27:05] I'm getting at is that somewhere in you in this kid you know you're like well I just kind of wanted
[00:27:09] to climb more but no you were you were driven you're continue to be really driven you can't succeed
[00:27:15] at what you what you've done and are continuing to do if you're not inside somewhere like super driven
[00:27:24] and so you know tell me a little bit about your you know you have a degree in psychology right
[00:27:29] tell me a little bit about this this sort of two sides to the coin of Natalia Grossman this
[00:27:35] like seemingly very happy fun you know I want to have fun climbing that was a big theme in that
[00:27:41] movie and yet somewhere in you is you know this this this flint this the steel that makes you
[00:27:49] put your path forward you know and even though that seemed casual like oh mom I want to move to
[00:27:53] Boulder like that's a big thought for a middle school kid to pull up their roots and go somewhere
[00:27:59] just to be a climber so tell me a little bit about that balance what do you think when you look at
[00:28:03] yourself you know how are those two sides mixed you know what I'm getting at with this question yeah
[00:28:07] it's funny because I've never like explicitly thought about it like that that's what I'm here for
[00:28:13] yeah that's cool um I think uh honestly going to Montessori School taught me to be very disciplined
[00:28:23] and fostered a lot of independence and to this day I am still very independent and I've always
[00:28:31] been that way and then I think partnering that independence with gymnastics which was a sport
[00:28:37] that you're chasing perfection and it's a very like cut throat sport I was able to take what I
[00:28:47] learned from that sport and like apply it into climbing but as a kid even when I was seven you know
[00:28:53] I'd write my to-do list and I check things off and I was very or I've always been an organized
[00:28:59] planner type person and I've learned to take a step back from that because it was like a little too much
[00:29:06] and then it would like cause stress if things weren't done and I'm like I want you to do this today
[00:29:11] it's fine and same with gymnastics I think it was I mean there's I don't think there's any no such thing
[00:29:19] as like perfection and so as a young kid I was always striving for this thing that like didn't exist
[00:29:26] because like you can get a perfect tenon gymnastics but that just doesn't apply to life like things will
[00:29:32] not be perfect but yeah I think I just had this like drive I guess to do everything that
[00:29:40] I was did and due to like the best of my abilities like I never want to just do something like
[00:29:46] halfway like I just feel like there's no point in doing something if I can't like fully be
[00:29:51] committed to it whether that's school or climbing relationship I want to be like all in it or
[00:30:00] yeah I don't want to just be like in this limbo what smile and fight more referred to
[00:30:06] was like at competitions sometimes I there will be times where I get so in my own head that like
[00:30:13] I forget to enjoy the moment especially that happened a lot in the past so I think the smile
[00:30:18] means reminding myself to just enjoy the moment be present realize where I am I'm climbing on
[00:30:24] at a world cup I'm climbing on the stage of climbing that I always wanted to as a kid doesn't matter
[00:30:31] how it goes like it shouldn't matter I shouldn't put all this pressure on it because like I'm already
[00:30:36] doing what I always wanted to do but then I think the fight comes more naturally everyone who
[00:30:44] goes into a competition is gonna fight to some degree but just like a reminder to you know fight
[00:30:52] do my best yeah be confident and have fun and enjoy it while I'm doing it so I think that's
[00:30:58] kind of where that motto comes from yeah but it's hard to do isn't it that's probably pretty hard
[00:31:05] to do well especially like the atmosphere is so serious sometimes sure so it's just hard to like
[00:31:10] be like we're just doing what we like to do and it's just like a competition like in the grand
[00:31:14] scheme of things like this is not like gonna make our break our entire life it's interesting you say
[00:31:21] that because I had sort of a half form of question here on this piece of paper about that very thing
[00:31:26] because you know competition climbing it's growing they're you know it's got to the Olympics last
[00:31:34] time it's it's in the Olympics it should stay there they're trying to divide the medals up all these
[00:31:38] things in a nutshell they want to be taken seriously you know they want to be taken as like
[00:31:45] you know quote unquote a real sport that can hold up against all the traditional sports and
[00:31:49] not just a bunch of kids in a gym you know kind of a thing and it's interesting how when I was
[00:31:54] watching that film I I know that's this push like this is a serious sport with serious athletes
[00:32:00] and yet here's this person who's also I was wondering about that so you kind of just answer
[00:32:05] that question before I asked it of like how do you keep having fun and taking it not seriously
[00:32:10] when the whole thing is getting bigger and bigger you know hopefully for them or on TV and some of
[00:32:17] the events from the Olympics and it's just like we want this to get so big and then there's
[00:32:21] Natalia like no we want just have a good time and and keep it where it is or I don't know how you
[00:32:27] feel about that but um but yeah it's and I thought I saw the dichotomy and it's in right in the title
[00:32:32] you know smile and fight as well so it's kind of fascinating that you sort of see see that too
[00:32:38] this seriousness that you have to kind of like forget about when the moment comes to to perform your best
[00:32:46] and I think it's easier for me to also remember I mean when I started climbing like it wasn't an
[00:32:52] Olympic sport there wasn't the recognition that there is today so maybe it's easier for me to
[00:32:59] like find that other side versus kid two are growing up now in the sport and uh no it's an
[00:33:06] Olympic sport maybe they're gonna have a completely different view like I want to go to the Olympics
[00:33:11] for climbing which for me that was just never a thought that even crossed my mind until like three
[00:33:17] years ago so it is interesting I think having it now be a little Olympics because I think that could
[00:33:23] change some people's perspective oh absolutely I mean you you have gymnastics to to reference you
[00:33:30] know you were in gymnastics at a fairly competitive level even if you thought it was just local but
[00:33:36] but I mean that's the whole the Olympics and gymnastics it's kind of like all wrapped up together
[00:33:42] because that's the one national stage so I don't I mean I think we can get away from it changing
[00:33:48] the sport in a lot of ways but let me ask you a couple questions about um some of your competitors
[00:33:55] in a way I mean you just were talking about having parents who didn't know anything about climbing
[00:34:00] and you kind of wish they did and then of course one of your colleagues competitors probably friends
[00:34:06] you know is Brooke Rabbit too and of course you know both her parents were lifelong climbers very famous
[00:34:12] climbers themselves the whole family's in it and so it's like there's it's just interesting because
[00:34:17] you you have these two people who are the best at the sport you know or nearly the best anyway
[00:34:23] among the best let's say that um who came from these two different backgrounds so it's interesting
[00:34:28] how it shows either either one can kind of work um so to speak but as you're like looking at
[00:34:34] you know these competitors that are also friends or or whatever like can you tell me anything about
[00:34:40] like lessons that you've learned from either literally talking and and training with you know
[00:34:47] someone like Brooke or observing Ashima she was a she was in the scene when you started like
[00:34:53] what kind of lessons as you became a competitor and you were on the stage with some of these people
[00:34:57] can you point to anything that you were like well that person does it this way and I'm I'm going
[00:35:02] to do that and it works um kind of a thing or just maybe a general feeling that some of these
[00:35:07] competitors give you that you've used to help your climbing a lot of like things I've learned are
[00:35:13] from just like training with her not necessarily her as like a competitor but just
[00:35:19] you know growing up when I moved to ADC then like we would climb together a lot and like during
[00:35:25] I guess like COVID year like she was back in Boulder and we were just climbing together like every day
[00:35:32] but like outdoors mainly but then um we started like climbing indoors a bit it was very motivating
[00:35:39] and like inspiring for me to to grow up you know having a friend who I idolized which is also
[00:35:48] was interesting to like make that shift because I feel like there's so many people who I grew up
[00:35:54] idolizing who I'm like now friends with my go yeah like I have posters of you in my room or something
[00:36:02] just like different generations joining but just like seeing the work that goes into it and
[00:36:08] like the dedication to the sport being just surrounded by so many motivated people definitely made
[00:36:16] me a lot more motivated and being on ABC having like 10 girls my age like I was training with my
[00:36:23] competitors every day so it pushed me to like just become a better climber. It's interesting your
[00:36:30] timeline and I was thinking about this before we started and then you've brought up COVID a few times
[00:36:36] that year of that's like starting to become sort of blurry in our memories already it's but it seemed
[00:36:44] to kind of fit almost well for you because then your breakouts you know happened pretty soon after
[00:36:51] things started to open up and so how you know tell me about that how that did affect you I mean
[00:36:57] you were in Boulder at that time it was four years ago where you still in high school just out of
[00:37:03] high school you know how did it fit into your training and did it did it actually help you
[00:37:08] because it seems like in some ways you know having nothing else to do but focus on stuff like that
[00:37:15] might have been helpful. Yeah so I had just started uh college in 2019 fall of 2019 and I started
[00:37:24] doing well at like the uh american earth I think they were just called American cup
[00:37:30] theories at the time then our nationals and like I was so excited that was like my first time really
[00:37:35] winning a big thing I mean yeah I don't know there's just I was really excited and I was excited
[00:37:42] for the opportunity to compete at world cup since like the last world cup I had done had been
[00:37:50] in 2019 and I had been like one spot out of finals and I just wanted to make that final so badly
[00:37:56] and um I think that definitely fueled the motivation and then yeah really excited to like make the
[00:38:03] world cup team for the first time and then landing my trip to the first world cup of the season I
[00:38:09] remember I was in my dorm crying because I was like I can't afford this this is a lot of money to
[00:38:16] like go do this comp it was like my first time like going to Europe for like six days or something
[00:38:22] you know I was funding myself for everything and yeah that was not a good time and then like two days
[00:38:30] later literally the world shut down it's like okay we're gonna postpone lead and speed nationals
[00:38:37] and school is gonna go on break for a bit and so then you know we all know how like things ended
[00:38:44] up turning out but like I just did online school finished uh the rest of my semester climbed
[00:38:52] outside every day from like April to August two days on one day off outdoors uh with like
[00:38:59] Brookweed go to like clear creek we'd go to Rocky Mountain at time um and then yeah I decided
[00:39:08] to like come out to Salt Lake for a week or two um in August of 2020 and then I really pretty
[00:39:17] much just like stayed out here I like my home I was like I think I'm gonna come back out here a
[00:39:21] little bit more and then I was able to do all my classes online so I ended up doing my second
[00:39:28] third and fourth year all online and I did like summer classes every summer and so I graduated
[00:39:35] a little bit early just because I liked having that other other thing besides climbing and so when
[00:39:41] we'd be traveling at the like doing the World Cups in the summer like I liked doing school and it was
[00:39:46] like a good distraction especially in the summer like I would just take one or two classes so it's
[00:39:50] like pretty chill and like not super stressful definitely still like a little stressful but I think
[00:39:56] I was so used to that that I really liked having that uh distraction and yeah then I came out
[00:40:04] I had like a friend out here and like I ended up staying with the family like the mom super nice
[00:40:10] which is like yeah like if you want to come out to Salt Lake they can stay with us and so I ended
[00:40:15] up living with their family I was like okay yeah like for three months until like teen child and
[00:40:20] then I ended up living with them for like two years and like now they're like my family and it's so
[00:40:24] cool that like I was just thinking about that the other day how climbing has brought me so many
[00:40:31] connections I have a whole community that I just wouldn't even know if I hadn't gotten into this
[00:40:36] the sport um yeah I lived with them and and now I'm like more independent I love having like
[00:40:42] that family aspect and so like I still go see them all the time but I'm not living there
[00:40:47] and yeah COVID was just like it allowed me to do school online and to like move and to like just
[00:40:53] try something new I was able to find more because like when I was in person I was just like going
[00:41:00] to the gym for like one or two hours at the end of the day and I was just climbing at the same gym
[00:41:05] movement pool during every single day because it was like the closest option I would just moonboard
[00:41:09] every single day which I think like was great for for the short amount of time that it happened but
[00:41:15] like that wouldn't have been sustainable long-term but it got me stronger and I think it like
[00:41:22] built a good base um especially then like adding all the outdoor climbing that was like primarily
[00:41:29] crimpy onto that um it was just yeah more more of a base and then just get being installed like
[00:41:36] and having access to like more comp style thing uh boulders and and whatnot yeah worked out well
[00:41:44] yeah I mean it's yeah I just was kind of noting that and how um maybe it just worked out to be
[00:41:50] you know sort of making a good thing out of something that seemed kind of terrible at the time
[00:41:55] and like said it lined up with with uh sort of breakout year following it and you know there's
[00:42:02] the film again uh a smile and fight like it's a movie and so this there's this very tidy arc to it um
[00:42:09] you can create kind of the story you want with uh with the right arc and there's there's a line
[00:42:16] in there it's like when you started um you know you started winning and you know there's this line
[00:42:20] in there and it's just like she came out of nowhere and um I was like I don't know she just like
[00:42:25] came out of nowhere but let me ask you that a little bit um like what do you think the switch was
[00:42:31] like for you because the way they sort of portray it and even looking at it I mean uh your record
[00:42:37] it was like yeah there was a switch thrown and um you came on really really strong so did have to
[00:42:44] do with this this like period of kind of the the covid era and training or what happened
[00:42:51] do you think in your mind or your body where that switch was thrown and you were suddenly um kind
[00:42:56] of thrust into the the the limelight as the came out of nowhere uh phenom if you will
[00:43:04] yeah it's interesting uh and is that real how it happened because I don't feel like
[00:43:09] it's like completely real right it was kind of like the year before covid I feel like I was
[00:43:16] improving but yeah like like I said like last world cup of 2019 as I go and spot out of finals
[00:43:22] I mean I had never done the world cup circuit until 2021 never had the opportunity to because
[00:43:27] I had qualified like on the US ride of things um but I remember after it was my last youth worlds
[00:43:35] and I had done pretty well I was pretty happy um like with my results I had like made all the finals
[00:43:41] and won some medals and I felt really burnt out though and I was almost considering not competing
[00:43:48] in 2019 that fall I had just started college as well and I remember talking to Brooke and she
[00:43:55] she was gonna go to the first national cup of the season and it's like oh like I guess I'll
[00:44:00] just go because like I want to see her and like my other friends and like I won't really train for
[00:44:05] like I'll just like moonboard and I'll just show up and I won't worry that like I didn't have all
[00:44:11] this comp style practice and yeah I ended up winning that and that was then I was like well now I
[00:44:19] have to do the next one and then ended up yeah I just ended up winning all the national cups
[00:44:25] in fall 2019 and then followed that up with nationals still like it wasn't really out of nowhere
[00:44:32] it's not like I came out of nowhere after COVID but I think because there was this COVID break
[00:44:37] then when I had the opportunity to like dedicate myself to one goal and be like I want to
[00:44:45] be on that US team I want to like become the best climber I can be then to show up and then maybe
[00:44:51] do the full uh I had the opportunity to do the full circuit it was like oh yeah it seems like
[00:44:58] this person came out of nowhere I feel like I can see both sides are you affiliated with moonboard
[00:45:04] at all because you just coined an amazing catchphrase for them um just moonboard and show up
[00:45:13] yeah you'll be ready they own that thing I don't know I don't know if that would work still I don't
[00:45:19] think that would work I think the style has changed a lot in the past four years okay maybe moonboard
[00:45:25] and show up would still work in the US but not at a world cup not a world cup it's too too many blobs
[00:45:31] um at a world club but yeah that's I was just curious because they should they should make a t-shirt
[00:45:36] that says that um so maybe you could get a little cut of that money well it's interesting because
[00:45:40] that like I said I was like okay this is a really neat arc that they've created but who knows
[00:45:46] it's all like partial reality partially which what you were thinking about the time but let me
[00:45:51] ask you about stress because that's also part of this arc is then all of a sudden you know at least
[00:45:56] the way they tell it you were on top and therefore you were the target and it made it less fun and
[00:46:01] all of which is certainly true to a certain extent but let me ask you we only got a few more minutes so
[00:46:07] you know you're you're qualified for the Olympics um we've I've talked to other athletes
[00:46:13] about the Olympics who competed previously um and it's different it's it's a bigger deal you know
[00:46:19] it's not it's it's maybe a good strategy to try to think it's just one more comp and I'm just
[00:46:24] gonna do what I do where I go to the comps and I win or I do my best or whatever but it's not
[00:46:30] just one more comp it's the freaking Olympics so I'm kind of asking are you ready are you ready for like
[00:46:35] you know there's going to be a ton of media attention you let me sneak in here at the very beginning
[00:46:41] before it gets rolling which I appreciate but are you ready for to be kind of a celebrity on a level
[00:46:46] that you you uh maybe haven't been before and I mean I can't believe that actually I just talked
[00:46:53] you about doing the podcast and I didn't have to go through like layers of people of athlete managers
[00:46:59] and other people to get to you I kind of did but um you know you were responding other athletes
[00:47:05] that are at Olympic level you know you don't you get responses from their publicists and things
[00:47:09] like that so are you ready well it's funny the way you mentioned things because I'm very much
[00:47:16] going with the approach of like oh it's just another competition I think the pressure that that film
[00:47:21] showed that was immense pressure which I luckily have not felt recently because at that second
[00:47:31] like Salt Lake World Cup I was like if this is what every world cup is gonna be like like I cannot do
[00:47:36] this like for so many years like it was I just wasn't having fun at all because I was just
[00:47:42] I felt all this pressure to win and I feel like now that I've lost I don't feel that pressure to win
[00:47:47] and it's just like a weight has been lifted and so yeah I don't feel the pressure to win the Olympics
[00:47:53] at all and so I don't even feel the pressure to podium or to make the final because it's just like
[00:47:59] I've never been before so maybe it's a different experience than like someone else who has been
[00:48:05] but for me it's all just new and my goal was always just to make it and like just to be a part of
[00:48:11] it and to be a part of that experience and so for me I'm like it is just like another opportunity
[00:48:17] to climb and yeah I mean it's easy to say that now and maybe things will like change as we
[00:48:23] you know once we're actually on the plane once we actually land and yeah of all this media
[00:48:27] but I feel like even going to like the Pan Am Games was like a good experience much smaller scale
[00:48:32] but it was still like you're in an athlete village there's like different teams you're traveling
[00:48:37] with like Team USA you're meeting other athletes in different sports at a smaller scale was definitely
[00:48:42] like a good experience but yeah I think I'm just so excited for the experience that it like
[00:48:48] takes some of the pressure off from like the competition itself I mean it's easy right now to
[00:48:54] just say things and maybe things will change but that's like how I feel right now
[00:48:57] I just don't think the person who wins the Olympics is necessarily the best climber because it's
[00:49:02] just one day of climbing you know so like you just never know what's going to happen
[00:49:08] so why would I put all this pressure on it? So this is primarily an outdoor climbing podcast
[00:49:15] on people are fully who listen are fully aware that my comp climbing guests are scant in the
[00:49:22] lineup I just go for the best actually if you look back at the the comp climbers I interview
[00:49:29] I only interview the best so here you are and I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about
[00:49:38] outdoor climbing goals you know because that's what we like to talk about on here where does it
[00:49:43] fit in your life and and are you able to keep sort of outdoor climbing goals on hand when
[00:49:49] you know the pressure to train on plastic is so great yeah I think that's one of the things
[00:49:55] growing up with like parents who didn't climb was I didn't necessarily have like the exposure
[00:50:01] to outdoor climbing but I I think I went on my first like trip maybe when I was like 10
[00:50:07] I'd say went to Bishop and then every like winter and like Thanksgiving break we'd always try
[00:50:14] and go with like other families on the team that was really fun but yeah after like my last comp of
[00:50:20] the season at this past year I went to the Red River Gorge for the first time and that was so fun
[00:50:27] I was there for like two weeks and I am excited to go back I'm like I already know I want to go back
[00:50:34] but yeah I feel like I am more focused right now I'm like comps and whatnot but I do know that
[00:50:41] I can do both in the fall I'm definitely excited to get back especially since it's just like my
[00:50:48] first time really like rope climbing outside so I feel like I just have a lot to learn and it was
[00:50:52] just really exciting to like be in a new environment because I boldered a ton outside in the past but
[00:50:59] not a ton of rope climbing so I feel like there's rooms for growth
[00:51:16] all right folks thanks for listening and thanks to Natalia for making that happen
[00:51:20] and I mentioned in there that I didn't have to sort of go through anyone a publicist or
[00:51:26] anybody like that and that's not exactly true Adam Peters over at Black Diamond helped me set
[00:51:31] that up he's an old friend plus you know BD is a big sponsor of this show but the cool thing was
[00:51:38] is once he connected us then it was Natalia and I hit her up and she said yeah how about tomorrow
[00:51:45] night or something like that it was it was like 24 or 48 hours difference between asking and
[00:51:51] having her on the screen so I think that's just so cool and I'm sure all these athletes wish that
[00:51:57] it was a better living than it is at least here in the United States and it's hopefully getting
[00:52:03] better but I don't get the feeling that Natalia wishes she was a bigger deal than she is and I mean
[00:52:08] just think about it if you run into her at the red next fall you can just say hey I'm sure
[00:52:14] and just tell her that you think she's rad and maybe get a belay who knows but that's the kind of
[00:52:19] people we're dealing with in climbing and I still think that is so cool and of course you should
[00:52:25] follow Natalia on Instagram at the very least Natalia underscore Grossman easy to find come on
[00:52:33] you people know how to use the internet but yeah follow her because you know you'll be tuned into
[00:52:38] what's going on with the Olympics at the very least plus she's awesome full of smiles inspiration
[00:52:44] that's what you want from social media and she mentioned getting trolling on there like what about
[00:52:50] this woman is worth trolling good god if you spend two seconds of your lifetime trolling Natalia Grossman
[00:52:59] or anyone like her you're a miserable piece of shit my god all right anyway the rest of us we're
[00:53:06] gonna go out and have a good time with our time because it's spring here in the northern hemisphere
[00:53:13] and I know some folks listen down there in Australia guess what it's fall for you guys so everyone
[00:53:18] is winning everyone is winning the season if you're not winning the season you got to move somewhere
[00:53:23] else dust off those rock skills get out there and of course check your knots
[00:53:43] oh
[00:53:48] why are you smiling like that I just like to smile smiling's my favorite
[00:53:53] make work your favorite that's your favorite okay okay work as your new favorite fine
[00:54:13] you