Week 8: Carolina Dreamin'

[00:00:00] Jesus Christ Ryan, what's that flying by? It's a Nuggets 3 point attempt. Good Lord, they're still flying out of ball arena. We're talking about the disastrous opening night for the Nuggets plus kicking the Broncos versus a FBS AA team in the Carolina Panthers. All that and more. Dan, play that funky music.

[00:00:30] Welcome into another episode of The Blucifer Brothers. I'm your host, Kyle Polen, joined as always by my brother Ryan Polen. We are here. We're talking Nuggets. We're talking Broncos today. All of the sadness that came with the Nuggets game and all of the joy that should be coming this Sunday with the worst team in the NFL coming to town in the Carolina Panthers. Ryan, how are you doing, buddy?

[00:01:01] I've certainly been better coming off of going to the game last night. It was number one, a late night, 8 p.m. Thursday night. That's really tough.

[00:01:15] You know, busy day back at work today. So it wasn't no rest for the weary over here. And, you know, wish we could have been coming into the work day with a high of a win as opposed to not necessarily a low loss, but a loss nonetheless.

[00:01:35] I think the thing that I, as I was reflecting more and more upon it today, similar to you, very tired. I think this being NBA on TNT's last season, I think it hurts my feelings more that we got our asses kicked in front of Chuck.

[00:01:53] Like, cause there's nothing better than like TNT does a true post game show. So like when your team does something cool on TNT and then you just get to hear Chuck and Shaq and Kenny making fun of the other team, saying nice things about your team.

[00:02:11] It's the best. Like you could just like, I can't wait for the, like somebody to post it on Twitter. Then eventually it gets on YouTube. I'll watch it again the next morning.

[00:02:23] Usually it's Jokic with an interview and Chuck and Shaq love him. So it's always funny. So I do feel a little robbed of that. And I feel like the team should take that into account next time. Like you only get so many opportunities in front of, in front of our boy, Shaq and Charles and Kenny and the boys. So let's, let's not put that for kind of effort forth.

[00:02:47] Um, let's start there. Um, let's start there. It's been a lot of doom and gloom, um, for this nuggets team, Ryan. Uh, I think the biggest takeaway has been, uh, we can't shoot, uh, which we certainly couldn't that night, but I'm more, I think we have more shooters on our team than like people are making it seem like, like KCP was,

[00:03:17] somehow worth like five shooters on our team. Like, it's not like Bruce Brown was a knockdown. Jeff green. Wasn't a knockdown. Like our championship team was basically this and KCP would shoot three. Like, what are we doing here? Like the sky is not falling. Uh, what, what's your take on like the specific, like shooting takes here that, that are coming out?

[00:03:40] Well, the sky is falling. If Mike's going to be three for 10. Uh, I mean, if Mike's going to shoot 10 threes and shoot 30%, we're not going to win a lot of games. If the team overall is going to shoot 18% from three, we're not going to win a lot of games.

[00:03:56] So I'm not shocked to hear that take. I just don't think that it's like, like Murray had to, you know, Yoko Chumley shot three, which is kind of normal for him, honestly. But like it, it's an aberration a little bit to the point where I'm not super concerned.

[00:04:18] And I think your point about people complaining and using the championship team as this barometer, like, yes, we let a lot of people walk, but yes, to your point, they weren't necessarily producing at like these all-star type of levels. Like we've traded role player for role player quite a bit.

[00:04:37] It's not like two years, but it's not, we're not dropping this crazy stat production guy. Like we haven't lost a major piece of the championship team. So I think my concern would be more that like, you know, I would either like Mike to shoot less or make more like you can shoot 30%. That's fine. But like, don't take 10, you know?

[00:05:07] And a lot of them actually, now that I'm thinking about it and reflecting more, it's like a lot of them weren't necessarily bad shots. So I'm not upset. Like they kind of felt all in rhythm, but we just have to make more. You can't, you're not going to win NBA games shooting 18% from three. You're just not, it's not going to happen.

[00:05:28] Yeah. So I thought it was a weird, um, it was kind of a weird energy, Michael Porter game. Cause he came out like insanely aggressive. Like it was like, you know, the coaching or the scouting report was like, Hey there, if they play low off you for a second, let that thing fly. Like we, we, we need you to pull them out, pull them out, pull them out.

[00:05:49] It appeared that they knew that ever since last year, the first game, when the nuggets went down to a very hot young thunder team and just beat the fuck out of them.

[00:06:01] And like a brunch game in which they were like, Chet's big. We can put him in the post versus Jokic and Jokic just put his ass under the rim and messed him up.

[00:06:12] OKC is a well-coached team. And they said, yeah, we're not going to play that one-on-one anymore. Absolutely not. And the rest of their team is really big, really physical.

[00:06:22] So I think the nuggets correctly identified, Hey, they're going to have to help there. If we can try to get Mike aggressive, looking for his shot quickly, that's what we want. Right. However, it ended up with him taking some like early in the shot clock threes that weren't like step into it. Let your first one be wide open. See it go down.

[00:06:46] And then he disappeared for the whole second quarter. And then the third quarter, he went on a little run when the nuggets closed it. And that was, and then he disappeared again.

[00:07:00] So I thought he had a weird game for Porter. And it just feels like he, to compare him, it's like when I would, my first year playing varsity, I'd talk myself into like, Hey, you know what? Like, I'm just as good as these guys. I'm going to be aggressive.

[00:07:22] And so I'd come out aggressive. But if I made one mistake, I would be like, nevermind. I suck. I'm just going to try to blend in, not, not mess this up for us. Like, all right, you, you know what? You're right guys. And it feels like he didn't have the like confidence or that, but the big takeaway I had that really frustrated me was all we heard in the off season was Porter put on muscle for playing four. Now, where is he going to play four?

[00:07:52] Certainly not in our starting lineup. Cause we have AG and Jokic. We don't need him to play four. We don't want AG out of the dunker spot who, by the way, did have a pretty sweet dunk on Chet Holmgren's head. It was in garbage time. So like, you know, didn't matter, but it was awesome.

[00:08:08] Uh, so my assumption was, Hey, we're going to see more of Porter with Russ. Cause we have a true ball handler. We have a guy who people aren't going to just like pressure up the floor. Like they did with our guards the previous two years.

[00:08:24] Well, instead we don't, we saw Porter and AG stay in with the starters longest and we getting Murray out there. So then it's Murray and Westbrook. And this was, I mean, you were sitting next to me, right?

[00:08:37] So, you know, this was, has been a pet peeve that it blew my mind, but within 30 seconds of watching this, I go, why does Murray have the ball and trying to create off the dribble?

[00:08:51] And we're spotting up Peyton Watson and Russell Westbrook. Peyton Watson didn't play the whole preseason. He was a, he's one of those like average shooters that Yoke talks about.

[00:09:02] I think last year he was pretty good in the corners anywhere else stepping into it. It was a little dicey. So obviously they're going to cheat off of him.

[00:09:12] And now we have Russ who they are also going to cheat off of. So like this would be like the Broncos.

[00:09:20] Like trading for Travis Kelsey and then being like, all right, Travis, we need you to block.

[00:09:26] Like, what are you doing here? Like the way to make Russ is to play fast, to get him going downhill.

[00:09:35] And there were some moments where he got downhill, even against a very good, very physical OKC team.

[00:09:41] And he created some shots for guys. He was pretty good at it.

[00:09:46] He had five assists. It's, it's an excellent point. And I think it's frustrating to watch.

[00:09:54] Especially because the bench was shooting so poorly. Like it's one thing if Russ, if Russ is running the floor with the backups and they're splashing these threes and everything's like, we're going on runs with the backups.

[00:10:09] Like, sure. Okay. Then leave Mike with the starters. That's fine. But they were a combined, they made one three.

[00:10:17] The entire bench made one three.

[00:10:21] So maybe we could have used Mike in those lineups to shoot a couple there.

[00:10:26] So I, I agree that the rotation stuff was sort of baffling.

[00:10:33] It was almost like Malone was guessing a little bit and didn't really know what he wanted to do, which is fine considering it's, you know, first game of the season.

[00:10:42] Watson, to your point, didn't play all preseason. So it's a little bit hard to figure out the rotations when you're missing a guy.

[00:10:47] But it's also like, it doesn't seem that difficult to, to understand what this potentially looks like.

[00:10:57] So, yeah.

[00:11:27] Good shots, right?

[00:11:28] And there is no world in which Peyton Watson and Russell Westbrook spotting up is going to get you good shots.

[00:11:38] Like, you had a whole training camp, but like, you should just as basketball players be intelligent enough to go.

[00:11:46] Like, if I went to a rec center right now and I watched some guy fucking Philip Seymour Hoffman in it in along came Pauly.

[00:11:53] I'm not going to be like, hey, let's have him spot up, right?

[00:11:57] Like, no, let's try to get him down low.

[00:12:00] Let's try to get him somewhere.

[00:12:01] You know, like, make him somewhere where he has to be threatening.

[00:12:04] And Russ has a lot of positives and has a lot of ways to be threatening.

[00:12:08] But this just felt like a completely stupid use of him.

[00:12:13] And thus, then it hurts Murray, where Murray is now taking highly contested versus strong guards, which is normally an advantage Murray has that he didn't have against OKC.

[00:12:25] And like, there's no plan.

[00:12:27] There's no flow.

[00:12:29] It was really, really bad.

[00:12:31] I thought Jokic body language got pretty bad near the fourth quarter.

[00:12:34] You could tell he was very frustrated after they didn't call Chet, just grabbing him for like the 50th time during the night.

[00:12:41] He was like, all right, that's about enough of this.

[00:12:44] And Jokic was creating in that double team situation, right?

[00:12:48] Like, it wasn't like he you did.

[00:12:50] You said he was creating shots, which is true.

[00:12:52] But he also had 13 assists.

[00:12:53] Like, they almost dirty assists to he got.

[00:12:57] All of our points were created by Jokic.

[00:13:02] So I think he was vintage, right?

[00:13:05] And it's just like, are we going to be able to find the shooting around him to win more of these games?

[00:13:12] And I also think that the Thunder, like, they're really good.

[00:13:17] I mean, we sat down in the seat and I looked at you and was like, why are we favored in this game?

[00:13:23] What's going on?

[00:13:24] It didn't make any sense in the moment.

[00:13:26] And so I think it's an acceptable loss.

[00:13:31] But I mean, 17 points in the third quarter, like, that's pretty tough.

[00:13:36] So.

[00:13:37] No, I, to me, it's all about, and to your point, it's one game and it's not the full.

[00:13:45] But like, to me, it's what we said two years ago.

[00:13:51] We brought up last year, it's the whole point of the regular season, if you are a title contender, is to try to work on becoming the best version of yourself.

[00:14:01] And you're just, you know, sharpening the blade that you're going to use against the really good teams.

[00:14:07] And there is no fucking world in which we can play a playoff series in which Russ and Peyton are off ball and expect that to go well against a good team.

[00:14:20] And like, I, it just, it's like, those are missed reps.

[00:14:26] And we need to get the reps of like, hey, this is Russ's second unit.

[00:14:33] He is going to have the ball, whether it is Murray, whether it is Porter, whatever it is, I don't care.

[00:14:39] You are a shooter.

[00:14:41] That is what you are here for this team.

[00:14:44] And I thought that we left some things out there as far as not even being able to get reps.

[00:14:54] Because to your point, like, yeah, if Porter is shooting terribly and everyone shoots terribly, we might have some games that we, that we lose.

[00:15:03] But what I don't want is our offense creating looks for non-shooters.

[00:15:08] Like, Jokic is a cheat code.

[00:15:10] He's going to create looks.

[00:15:12] Teams know that now.

[00:15:13] Like, OKC was doubling and triple teaming him.

[00:15:16] They were just willing to give up looks to certain players.

[00:15:20] And it's on us to try to manipulate around that.

[00:15:23] Much like the Warriors, teams are very willing in their heyday to give Draymond green threes.

[00:15:29] They had to figure out how to not have Draymond taking those and having Steph or Klay take those.

[00:15:35] Right?

[00:15:35] Like, it's, that's the strategy.

[00:15:38] That's the part of where you got to be a smart basketball player.

[00:15:41] And I feel like sometimes the Nuggets were a little quick in their offense.

[00:15:46] Whereas it's just like, you know, whether it's Jokic taking the extra dribble in or it's, hey, let's figure out what the OKC Thunder would like me to do as Peyton Watson.

[00:15:58] I'm not going to do that.

[00:16:00] Right?

[00:16:01] I'm going to be somewhere else.

[00:16:02] Where would the, where does it make us harder to guard?

[00:16:05] Oh, Murray off the ball.

[00:16:07] Let's do that.

[00:16:08] And it just seems that to me was concerning.

[00:16:11] It seems almost too easy to run a similar offense with the backups as we do with the starters where it's just Russell and Strother, like whoever gets the ball, just run essentially.

[00:16:24] And then have Watson in the dunker spot, like AG and have MPJ out, you know, in the corner.

[00:16:34] Like, yeah, that's a pretty dangerous type of offense because Watson is so athletic.

[00:16:40] Like he's going to get offensive rebounds if he's in that dunker spot, even from a missed three.

[00:16:46] Like he'll have some filthy putback dunks or something in that, in that opportunity.

[00:16:50] So, and it didn't make any sense because of the way the Thunder were playing.

[00:16:55] They were playing so small that like, because they don't have a backup center, that it just made so much sense to put Porter out there and it just didn't happen.

[00:17:07] Yeah, no.

[00:17:08] So, I think the overall takeaway is, guys, bad shooting nights are going to happen to any team.

[00:17:15] Like, that's going to happen.

[00:17:16] It's about getting good shots for the players you want to have those shots.

[00:17:20] And it starts Saturday in which I predict the Nuggets are going to absolutely dog walk the Clippers.

[00:17:31] Jokic kind of gives it to Zubac all the time.

[00:17:35] And James Harden off ball defense.

[00:17:38] You got a Russ kind of, oh, you let me go game here.

[00:17:43] And I think getting that first game out of the system was a good thing.

[00:17:47] And also, you said it to me in the stands.

[00:17:50] You were like, Mike Malone is going to have at least 12 aneurysms watching some of this film.

[00:17:57] Where like, there were just guys just jogging.

[00:17:59] Or like, they were up 18 and Dort is getting on the floor for a loose ball.

[00:18:04] And our guys just couldn't appear less interested.

[00:18:07] Like, it was, it's going to be some name calling occurred at Ball Arena today.

[00:18:14] I will tell you that.

[00:18:16] Yeah.

[00:18:17] Yeah.

[00:18:18] It's, I'm, it's a motivating loss for sure.

[00:18:21] And it's a motivating loss to a team that we'll likely see later.

[00:18:25] Well, we're going to see them a lot, obviously, because we're in the same division.

[00:18:29] But we're, it's, I mean, they're the favorites in the West for a reason.

[00:18:33] So, I think it's, it's nice to get your ass kicked a little bit, especially early in the year.

[00:18:40] And the Nuggets typically starts low.

[00:18:43] So, like, I don't think that this is surprising in any way.

[00:18:47] But you, you do wish they would have put up a little bit more of a fight.

[00:18:52] Yeah.

[00:18:53] But everyone forgets the championship year, the Nuggets lost by 21 to a Jazz team that ended up tanking for their season opener.

[00:19:01] And that team won the title.

[00:19:02] So, like, these things happen.

[00:19:05] When I was walking out of the arena, I was saying to you, like, I'm sure this team is going to piss me off, like, three times as much as this at some point during the season.

[00:19:15] Like, that's just the nature of 82 games.

[00:19:19] But to me, I just want to see good process.

[00:19:21] And here, it just didn't look like a smart process of, like, putting people in chance to succeed.

[00:19:27] Before we move on, I do want to give some flowers.

[00:19:31] Christian, my goodness.

[00:19:34] Some great finishes, really under control.

[00:19:37] He avoided a charge in the third quarter that last year he just got 10 out of 10 times because he was trying to dunk on everybody's head.

[00:19:46] And he just was under control.

[00:19:50] He, I believe he missed, I don't think he had a three, but he, like, took the right threes.

[00:19:56] He was in the right spots for those.

[00:19:59] Played good defense.

[00:20:01] Was aggressive going to the rim in transition.

[00:20:04] Looked big.

[00:20:05] Looked strong.

[00:20:06] So, great first starting performance from him.

[00:20:12] Yeah, it was particularly good to see because he had such a rocky preseason.

[00:20:19] Like, he looked so bad.

[00:20:22] And he still didn't shoot the ball well.

[00:20:24] I don't think he made a three.

[00:20:25] But he was, the off-ball stuff is exactly what we needed to see from him because that's the only way he's dangerous on the floor is if you're not guarding him and you're lazy and sagging off of him.

[00:20:37] And, as if he, when you least expect it, back cuts.

[00:20:42] And when you get him rolling downhill, it is, he can finish.

[00:20:47] So, I think it's promising on that front.

[00:20:52] Obviously, defensively, he's, I think he still has a little bit of room to grow there.

[00:20:57] A hundred percent.

[00:20:58] But I was proud of him.

[00:21:00] I thought he was going to get the Shea treatment here and pick up, like, two quick ones.

[00:21:05] And he did a good job being disciplined, standing in front.

[00:21:08] Shea's unbelievable.

[00:21:09] Shea's going to get his.

[00:21:10] But, like, I thought he was really good.

[00:21:13] He was better than I expected in that front.

[00:21:17] And, but it's, he's just going to get tested night after night after night after night after night.

[00:21:23] Like, he hasn't yet.

[00:21:25] So, I was impressed with the beginning and I hope that it's indicative of what's to come.

[00:21:31] Yeah.

[00:21:31] He's got another crafty guy, albeit a older and fatter and slower and just all around worse in James Harden coming to town Saturday.

[00:21:41] So, it's another game where it's like, be disciplined, trust in your positioning.

[00:21:46] Like, I hope he takes it personally.

[00:21:49] Because it could be really fun if Christian gets a little mouthy with James Harden.

[00:21:54] Yeah.

[00:21:55] Um, but I, I do think that highlights, like, Christian was one who was like, okay, OKC would love for me to take threes.

[00:22:07] Right?

[00:22:08] And he was just like, no, you're still scrambling to close out to me because you triple teamed Jokic.

[00:22:16] I am going to use that to get downhill and put myself in a threatening position where I am good.

[00:22:24] And it felt like too often the Nuggets were like, oh, well, this is the one pass or the one rotation from Jokic.

[00:22:33] I think we should shoot it.

[00:22:36] And it's like, well, let's, you could attack it more than one way.

[00:22:42] You're the second option.

[00:22:43] And start drifting around.

[00:22:44] Yeah.

[00:22:44] You can then get them scrambling and then you can dump it to Jokic to where it's like, oh, it's too, you're too scrambled.

[00:22:52] You can't get the easy load up that they are always going to have when their defense is set and they're up there against the front side.

[00:22:59] I thought a lot of that stuff was missing and I hope that the Nuggets watch the film, take it to heart.

[00:23:06] And because I think there's, I think there's very easy answers for this team.

[00:23:10] That's what bothers me about the, like the sky is falling with the shooting.

[00:23:14] I'm like, dude, there's going to be games where Christian knocks them down.

[00:23:19] There's going to be a game where Russ has four threes in a game.

[00:23:22] Like, it's not like this team is incapable of, of making threes.

[00:23:27] Are they built to be the Warriors and shoot 60 of them a game?

[00:23:32] No, but you don't have to be that.

[00:23:35] The Nuggets were not that when they won the title.

[00:23:38] That was the whole thing of that team was like, oh, this is kind of a new way to play basketball.

[00:23:44] And I think that's why a lot of NBA fans really connected with them because it was like, oh, this is movement.

[00:23:49] This is strategy.

[00:23:50] This is a lot of that rather than just being like, here's one pick and we're going to yank with our, you know, 6'10 wing or whatever.

[00:23:57] Right?

[00:23:58] Like there was some strategy in that.

[00:24:01] And I think the Nuggets just have to get back to that and get back to focused on playing it from a strategic vantage point.

[00:24:10] Because you have, you have the Magnus Carlsen of basketball, you know, like Jokic is the best at that.

[00:24:17] So then just get everyone thinking that same wavelength and you can really do some pretty special things.

[00:24:23] And it takes time, right?

[00:24:25] I think we've talked about this a lot on the podcast.

[00:24:29] Like it takes time for people to get used to playing with Jokic.

[00:24:33] And so I'm not, I'm not pressing the concern button yet.

[00:24:39] The other thing that's just my last point, I think really is that the defense actually kind of looked okay.

[00:24:46] There were definitely lapses, right?

[00:24:48] There were times where it was boneheaded stuff, but it was the first game of the season.

[00:24:52] So it's not super concerning, but the, uh, it being an offensive issue that we're dealing with actually kind of makes me less worried because it's Jokic.

[00:25:06] Like to your point, we have Savant, like he's going to figure it out.

[00:25:09] So he brought that Fakou Composite team to a win against the Warriors.

[00:25:13] Like this team is scored over a hundred quite a bit with Austin Rivers, Fakou, like all those, like we're going to get there.

[00:25:19] We didn't have knockdown shooters.

[00:25:22] People are pretending like he's been playing with fucking Kyle Corver, JJ Redick and Reggie Miller out there.

[00:25:28] I was texting with somebody today and they were talking, they're like, oh, they should have signed.

[00:25:35] It was stupid.

[00:25:36] They should have signed clay and all this stuff.

[00:25:38] But like, I'm like, we never would have done that.

[00:25:40] But, um, he, I, the only thing that's going to make me mad is if Jokic never plays with an all-star.

[00:25:49] Like that will be a travesty.

[00:25:52] The fact that we won a title and he's in, he never plays with an all-star.

[00:25:56] Like, I think there's a real possibility of that happening now because I don't see who that's going to be right now.

[00:26:02] So I don't, uh, I don't, I didn't see anyone who's going to be putting that game on their film for the all-star game.

[00:26:07] Christian, I guess.

[00:26:09] Christian, I guess we'll have some moments, but, uh, I don't think he, uh, is going to get the, the momentum there.

[00:26:17] Uh, okay.

[00:26:19] The, so Nuggets, we're going to have a game Saturday.

[00:26:23] I think we, we're still, our panic meter is low, folks.

[00:26:27] We've got to fix some system things, but I don't think it's a, like people were making it seem like there's no talent.

[00:26:34] Um, or like it's a lack of that.

[00:26:38] And I'm like, I don't think that at all.

[00:26:39] We're going to be okay.

[00:26:41] Uh, speaking of things where things are going okay, the Broncos.

[00:26:46] Pat Sertain's back.

[00:26:47] He shot the first shot at the Nuggets game last night.

[00:26:50] Ryan, a little strong, a little strong from Patty, but you'll love that from a football player, especially a defensive guy.

[00:26:57] Um, and so you got him back, uh, the Broncos relatively healthy and we're playing the worst team in the NFL, the Carolina Panthers.

[00:27:09] Uh, Ryan, if I had told you, uh, before the season, there is going to be a game in which the Broncos are 11 point favorites.

[00:27:18] Would you have ever believed that in a million years?

[00:27:21] Cause I never would have.

[00:27:22] I'd have been like, I mean, maybe like tons of injuries.

[00:27:26] Like I would have assumed it was a, we are Marshall situation.

[00:27:34] Goodness gracious.

[00:27:35] I mean, all right, all right, all right.

[00:27:40] Yeah.

[00:27:41] It's, uh, this Panthers team, I, and we'll get to my pay.

[00:27:45] How did one team go on strike without the Broncos going on strike?

[00:27:52] Listen, we're committed.

[00:27:54] Uh, the, yeah, the Panthers, I made the mistake and we'll get into my picks.

[00:28:00] I went on three last week.

[00:28:02] You had three and oh, uh, I'm, I'm developing a new.

[00:28:05] I'm switching my mojo up, but I was like, this commander's defense isn't good.

[00:28:13] And I was like, they're going to score enough to cover eight and a half.

[00:28:17] Ryan, Jane Daniels got hurt in the first quarter.

[00:28:20] And I was like, Oh, even though I'm down 14, nothing, we're going to get a little backdoor ugly cover here.

[00:28:26] We're fine.

[00:28:27] And they just kept allowing points.

[00:28:30] Like, this is why you can't like full trust the process in the NFL because the Panthers, I can't think of a good player that they have.

[00:28:40] Like, I genuinely am like, Oh, cause you know, they fire sold off the linebacker last year.

[00:28:48] They got rid of guys.

[00:28:49] And you're like, okay, but now you have no good players and you have to have 11 out there on offense and defense.

[00:28:56] And all of your players suck compared to the other team.

[00:29:00] What are you going to do?

[00:29:03] I've heard trap game thrown around Ryan.

[00:29:06] This feels unlosable to me.

[00:29:09] Do you see a world in which the Broncos lose this game somehow with basically a bye week, by the way?

[00:29:17] It's a mini bye that we have.

[00:29:18] Of course, there's a way they're going to lose the game that we can never underestimate the incompetence of this organization in general.

[00:29:32] But it's probably unlikely.

[00:29:35] This team, I was just looking at the touchdown scores because I was like, ah, yeah, Kyle's saying some mean things here.

[00:29:43] They've got to have somebody that like I recognize on the offense.

[00:29:46] And let me tell you, this list of touchdown scorer bets is just ugly as sin.

[00:29:54] There's not a Broncos or a Panthers player on here that you want to be betting on.

[00:30:01] It's Javante, and he's probably what, minus like 140 or something?

[00:30:05] No, he's only minus 115.

[00:30:10] But Bo Nix is second.

[00:30:12] He's plus 135.

[00:30:13] Bo Nix has better odds to score a touchdown than any Panthers player.

[00:30:18] I don't think they're wrong.

[00:30:20] No, I don't think they're wrong either.

[00:30:22] Chuba Hubbard is the only, is honestly, it's to the point now, especially with the Broncos wide receivers, that I don't know who these players play for.

[00:30:32] We should play the game Panther or Bronco.

[00:30:36] I would crush the Broncos wide receiver room.

[00:30:42] I'll tell you that.

[00:30:43] Xavier Leggett plays for the Panthers, yeah?

[00:30:46] Yeah.

[00:30:46] Funny accent.

[00:30:48] He might be the second odds to get a Panthers touchdown, and he's plus 320.

[00:30:58] It's Chuba Hubbard, and then the wide receiver is over 3-1 to score.

[00:31:05] Yeah.

[00:31:05] It's not good.

[00:31:07] And I mean, obviously, you know, Bryce Young, and then the defense.

[00:31:13] This just feels like, and to me, if I was Sean Payton, I would be telling our team, this is a weirdly important game.

[00:31:23] Because after this is a pretty brutal stretch.

[00:31:28] Like, this is where you get into the Baltimore Chiefs, like that section of it, where it's not super fun, man.

[00:31:37] No, you need to win this game.

[00:31:39] You haven't beaten the Chiefs in a decade.

[00:31:42] You're not going to beat the Ravens.

[00:31:44] How dare you?

[00:31:44] We beat them last year when they weren't trying, but that's fine.

[00:31:48] We beat them.

[00:31:50] Yeah.

[00:31:52] But yeah, no.

[00:31:53] I mean, like, the Ravens look problematic, shall we say.

[00:31:59] I don't know what we're going to do against Eric Henry, but...

[00:32:04] And then, I mean, the Chiefs, they just got hop.

[00:32:08] So, I mean, that became harder.

[00:32:11] It's like, this game, like, you kind of need to...

[00:32:16] I would be trying to tell my guys, like, we're going to put them away and try to make this to where we get a little extra rest again.

[00:32:23] Yeah, if you're serious about trying to make the playoffs and you're the Broncos, you have to beat every team that you're better than.

[00:32:34] You cannot drop a game that you are clearly better than the team.

[00:32:38] And you don't have very many of those, right?

[00:32:41] Like, it's the NFL where, oh, you know, there's talent on both sides of the ball.

[00:32:46] But there isn't talent on the other side of the ball here.

[00:32:49] So, you need to win this game.

[00:32:51] And I think they will.

[00:32:53] I don't think...

[00:32:54] I mean, trap is...

[00:32:57] Trap implies that they're going to lose.

[00:33:00] I do think that they could not cover this number.

[00:33:02] It's a big...

[00:33:03] 11 is too many points.

[00:33:05] 11 is way too many.

[00:33:07] I could see us being a 7.5 point favorite here.

[00:33:11] And that seems about more accurate to me.

[00:33:15] Yeah, the only thing is that the turnover game, it feels like Broncos' defensive touchdown here has...

[00:33:25] Wow.

[00:33:26] You were getting into my best bets already, I see.

[00:33:29] Oh, well.

[00:33:31] All right.

[00:33:32] Let's...

[00:33:33] I think this is a...

[00:33:38] About as much as one can say about these two teams.

[00:33:41] Also, by the way, Sean Payton, don't turn back into fucking Kevin James.

[00:33:45] Okay?

[00:33:46] You called a game plan in which you threw away more with Bo Nix.

[00:33:50] You let him be aggressive.

[00:33:52] You let him do his thing, like, to open up the running lanes.

[00:33:57] I swear to God, everything works against this team besides running it up the middle.

[00:34:03] Well, part of the reason why...

[00:34:05] Like, I swear to God, anything can be successful.

[00:34:07] Just draw...

[00:34:09] Just have some people run routes and have Bo know where they're going.

[00:34:13] And it'll work.

[00:34:14] Okay?

[00:34:15] Like, please don't be a puss and come out with some...

[00:34:20] He's definitely going to.

[00:34:21] ...ass game plan.

[00:34:22] He's definitely going to.

[00:34:23] That's why I'm yelling at him right now.

[00:34:25] All right.

[00:34:26] We're having a heart-to-heart, me and Sean.

[00:34:28] I can see him.

[00:34:29] It's like a full moon on Halloween turning into a werewolf.

[00:34:32] Except he's just eating Twinkies and putting on the visor for Kevin James.

[00:34:37] It's no good.

[00:34:40] Well, he's definitely going to run the ball a lot because he thinks the Panthers suck.

[00:34:45] And he's just going to try to make this game as short as possible and not give them the ball and limit mistakes and no pick sixes.

[00:34:54] And I can just hear the coach speak in my mind right now.

[00:35:00] I can feel my blood pressure rising.

[00:35:02] So, it's good to at least know that that's what will be happening at 2 p.m. on a Sunday.

[00:35:09] All right.

[00:35:10] Final score prediction here.

[00:35:12] I'm going 24-13 Broncos.

[00:35:23] So, close to covering, but.

[00:35:26] I am going to go.

[00:35:28] And I'm with you.

[00:35:29] I think it's kind of a game the whole time and then it's like a late field goal.

[00:35:33] You know, like kind of pull away a little late.

[00:35:36] Well, I don't know.

[00:35:37] I actually, I think this could kind of get ugly.

[00:35:41] I'm going to go 28-7.

[00:35:47] All right.

[00:35:48] No.

[00:35:49] So, I guess I have them covering, but I'm not going to bet it.

[00:35:52] No, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:35:54] Okay.

[00:35:55] Well, we'll see if I bet it here.

[00:35:57] Let's get into our best bets.

[00:35:59] I'm just ashamed.

[00:36:01] I'm just ashamed out here.

[00:36:03] Oh, in three week.

[00:36:06] The Packers by a half point.

[00:36:08] The Packers by a half point.

[00:36:10] Piss me off.

[00:36:11] We have, obviously, the disaster that was the commanders ramrodding this Panthers team.

[00:36:24] And then the Vikings, who wouldn't have covered for me.

[00:36:29] But can I just say, the end of that game does piss me off.

[00:36:33] Because they get the ball after their first stop in like two hours.

[00:36:39] And they just are like, oh, let's run it so we can use some clocks.

[00:36:43] So, we give this offense that's just been slamming up our poopers for two straight hours.

[00:36:49] The ball with two minutes left instead of three.

[00:36:52] No way they'll kick a field goal to win the game.

[00:36:55] Like, you need to run the clock out.

[00:36:58] Like, you could see Campbell was like, oh, we're going to take as much time as possible before we kick this field goal.

[00:37:05] Like, do not get in the end zone here.

[00:37:07] He understood, like, what kind of game it was.

[00:37:09] And it really upset me that the Vikings did not.

[00:37:12] Obviously, they since have lost again to a newly rejuvenated Rams team.

[00:37:18] But, and lost their tackle to a season-ending injury.

[00:37:22] So, not a good time to be a Vikings fan.

[00:37:25] But, I will say, that game made me upset.

[00:37:28] But, 0-3.

[00:37:29] I need to switch my bojo up.

[00:37:30] So, Ryan is going to have his best bets as normal.

[00:37:34] He had a 3-0 week.

[00:37:35] Unbelievable.

[00:37:36] I was going to say.

[00:37:37] Great job.

[00:37:37] Hats off to you, by the way.

[00:37:38] Since you ran through that filth, I feel like I should run through my.

[00:37:42] You should.

[00:37:43] Yeah.

[00:37:43] Cleanse our palates almost.

[00:37:44] It's almost like, you know, they bring you a wafer.

[00:37:46] And they're like, hey, that wasn't great.

[00:37:48] But, let's start over.

[00:37:51] I had a Josh Jacobs anytime touchdown.

[00:37:54] Minus 125.

[00:37:55] Bang, bang on that one.

[00:37:58] Mahomes over the half at interception.

[00:38:02] That was a comfortable win.

[00:38:05] I think that was a first quarter win.

[00:38:07] And Purdy, longest completion over 35.5 yards.

[00:38:12] I'm pretty proud of that one, actually.

[00:38:14] I've been digging deep into the player props again.

[00:38:18] And I've been having success.

[00:38:20] Normally, as we know, I've been doing all Broncos on my best bets.

[00:38:24] But since they played Thursday, it forced me to go deeper into the bag with some of these non-Broncos bets.

[00:38:31] And you were better for it, honestly.

[00:38:33] Yeah, I'm going to go back to this.

[00:38:35] The strategy is this week.

[00:38:36] I'm going to go back to all Broncos bets.

[00:38:38] Wow.

[00:38:39] Wow.

[00:38:40] Look at this.

[00:38:40] This man.

[00:38:41] Unfazed.

[00:38:42] I like it.

[00:38:43] I, myself, I need a week to reset.

[00:38:48] Just see what things are.

[00:38:49] So, I am just going to give Dan a number.

[00:38:55] And Dan is going to be scrolling NFL on FanDuel and just randomly clicking around.

[00:39:02] And then after the number, Dan will count down however many bets in whatever way he wants to.

[00:39:08] And that will be one of my best bets for the game.

[00:39:10] And I will try to justify it from there.

[00:39:13] And if I go 3-0, I will continue doing it until we stop winning with this.

[00:39:20] So, Ryan, I think let's give Dan a little time to scroll, get in the rhythm.

[00:39:26] You start us off here as a commanding lead that you have now opened up in our Pick'em contest.

[00:39:33] What are you going with here first?

[00:39:40] I'm going back to the well here to Old Faithful.

[00:39:45] So, I'm taking Bo Nix over 12.5 yards as his longest rush.

[00:39:52] This is plus 100 now since we're adding two yards.

[00:39:57] But we got plus odds.

[00:39:59] So, I'm going to take it.

[00:40:01] It would have hit the previous two weeks.

[00:40:04] It just feels like there's, especially with these two high zones, it does feel like as a quarterback,

[00:40:09] there's at least one chance if you're halfway mobile to where the safeties are just really deep

[00:40:15] and the linebackers get pulled and you just go up the middle and you get 15 yards.

[00:40:20] And that's just how it goes sometimes.

[00:40:24] And you hope that Garrett Bowles isn't holding anyone while you're running up the middle.

[00:40:28] So, I like this bet.

[00:40:29] And I'm personally disappointed to see plus number on it because that's going to make it harder to catch you here.

[00:40:37] But we'll see where Dan's thumb scrolls.

[00:40:41] Dan, we are going to start off here.

[00:40:45] We're going to let our good friend, John Elway, guide us.

[00:40:52] If you could do seven, seven here.

[00:40:56] To score two plus touchdowns in the Raiders-Chiefs game.

[00:41:01] Okay.

[00:41:02] And who did your finger land on in that?

[00:41:08] Alexander Madison.

[00:41:09] Okay.

[00:41:11] Now, see, a lot of people here are sleeping on Alexander Madison.

[00:41:17] But you forget, 10 years ago with the Vikings, he was pretty good.

[00:41:22] All right.

[00:41:23] And we've all had him on a fantasy team or two.

[00:41:26] This Chiefs team, what a letdown spot.

[00:41:30] And Antonio Pierce has had a lot of concussions.

[00:41:34] So, he is not super familiar with the forward pass.

[00:41:39] So, they will be running quite a bit.

[00:41:41] So, yeah.

[00:41:42] Alexander Madison, two plus touchdowns.

[00:41:44] That's a great bet.

[00:41:45] What are the odds on that one there, Dan?

[00:41:48] 1,400.

[00:41:49] 1,400.

[00:41:49] Plus 1,400.

[00:41:50] That will get me right back in the competition.

[00:41:53] I like that.

[00:41:55] Wow.

[00:41:55] Wow.

[00:41:55] What a start here.

[00:41:57] I'm feeling like my palate's getting cleansed already, right?

[00:42:01] Like, I can't wait to cheer for Alexander Madison.

[00:42:04] I'm feeling another 0-3 week for you.

[00:42:06] What stupid thing are you going to do next week?

[00:42:09] I'm going to let Bodie pick him.

[00:42:11] If I go 0-3, I'm going to let Bodie pick him.

[00:42:14] I'm just going to have –

[00:42:15] If you go 0-3, you just took Alexander Madison to have two plus touchdowns.

[00:42:20] Listen, we're switching the mojo up, Ryan.

[00:42:22] We're cleansing our aura.

[00:42:23] If we have to pay an Alexander Madison tax to go 2-1,

[00:42:28] do you know how hard of an erection I would get if I went 2-1 in these picks, Ryan?

[00:42:35] I've been working so hard on these picks and just to get shit on by fucking Sam Darnold

[00:42:40] and the Red Rocket jizzing all over my face.

[00:42:43] All right.

[00:42:44] I would be so happy if I went 2-1, Ryan.

[00:42:49] All right.

[00:42:49] So leave me alone.

[00:42:50] Take your second pick.

[00:42:53] All right.

[00:42:55] I'm going to take Zach Allen over 3.5 tackles and assists.

[00:43:03] This is minus 115.

[00:43:06] I believe Zach Allen is going to have a lot of tackles,

[00:43:09] and I believe he might even have a sack.

[00:43:12] So I did debate doing the over a quarter of a sack instead,

[00:43:20] and I probably should, but I'm going to stick with this one.

[00:43:23] All right.

[00:43:24] I like it.

[00:43:26] It does feel like they're going to have to try to establish the run here.

[00:43:30] Yeah.

[00:43:31] And we'll see what happens.

[00:43:33] Anytime they throw the ball, they throw it to the other team.

[00:43:37] And there's going to be some little cute screen that they try to get off in the middle that Zach is going to sniff out.

[00:43:43] Well, yeah.

[00:43:44] He's all over the field now.

[00:43:46] Yeah.

[00:43:46] It's a problem for teams.

[00:43:50] Yeah.

[00:43:50] I hate to say it again, but I like it.

[00:43:53] You're going with the tried and true faithful.

[00:43:58] And, I mean, that's kind of my strategy as well with Alexander Madison.

[00:44:03] Yeah.

[00:44:03] Tried and true.

[00:44:05] Fantasy owners have been, I mean, just singing the praises of, I think.

[00:44:11] I mean, to be honest, I Googled him because I wasn't sure he was the starter.

[00:44:16] And he's not technically.

[00:44:18] No, but he is due to injury.

[00:44:20] Yeah.

[00:44:20] Yeah.

[00:44:21] And somebody's dead save is a perfect depth piece for fantasy football.

[00:44:29] So if you got him the week before, he's going to be the hot waiver wire.

[00:44:35] I'm sort of talking myself into this.

[00:44:37] Maybe we should bet on Alexander Madison to have one touchdown.

[00:44:41] But two is where it is.

[00:44:43] All right.

[00:44:44] Dan, we're going to continue.

[00:44:46] And we need to show support for our man, Russell Westbrook.

[00:44:50] So I'd like you to go four.

[00:44:53] So just click on a game and then go four down.

[00:44:56] And whatever the bet is, we'll take that.

[00:44:59] Where do we end up here?

[00:45:00] What game are we in?

[00:45:01] What better?

[00:45:03] Baltimore and Cleveland.

[00:45:04] Okay.

[00:45:04] Great.

[00:45:07] Alternate total points.

[00:45:10] Alternate total points.

[00:45:12] Okay.

[00:45:12] Is the fourth one down?

[00:45:14] You want to do four?

[00:45:14] Yep.

[00:45:15] Yep.

[00:45:15] So you can pick over or under 23 and a half.

[00:45:18] Which team?

[00:45:20] Total.

[00:45:22] For the game?

[00:45:23] Yeah.

[00:45:24] I will take over.

[00:45:25] I will take over.

[00:45:27] That is minus 1,300.

[00:45:31] Minus 7,000.

[00:45:33] Okay, dude.

[00:45:34] Nice.

[00:45:36] Maybe this is it.

[00:45:37] You're picking up a win, dude.

[00:45:39] I'm going to be 2-1.

[00:45:41] I swear to God.

[00:45:42] What's the total, Dan?

[00:45:43] 28 or 23?

[00:45:45] 23 and a half.

[00:45:46] I swear to God if this game scores 21 points.

[00:45:48] I will.

[00:45:51] Dude, you should take the under.

[00:45:54] It's way better value.

[00:45:56] And just hope that it's a slop fest.

[00:45:59] No.

[00:46:00] No.

[00:46:00] I mean, I can't have plus 1,400 plus 7,000.

[00:46:07] What's the opposite end of it, Dan, if he takes the under?

[00:46:11] Under is 1,500.

[00:46:14] Dude, I would do the under.

[00:46:18] Give me the under, Dan.

[00:46:19] Give me the under.

[00:46:20] What game is this?

[00:46:20] What game is this?

[00:46:22] This is Browns versus the Ravens.

[00:46:25] Who?

[00:46:25] Browns, whole defense designed to stop Lamar.

[00:46:28] Lamar is typically very bad against them.

[00:46:31] And obviously, we do have a...

[00:46:36] Potential bounce back from no Deshaun, though.

[00:46:39] So the offense could be a little bit better.

[00:46:42] I'm more worried about Jameis than I...

[00:46:44] Kind of both sides.

[00:46:45] Pick the over.

[00:46:46] He's either going to throw three picks or he's going to do...

[00:46:49] There's no way that...

[00:46:51] I mean, what would the score have to be?

[00:46:54] 14-7?

[00:46:55] I mean, you need a lot of field goals, really.

[00:46:58] Like, you need, like, running it, long drives, and then just field goal.

[00:47:02] Long drive, long drive.

[00:47:04] Oh, go for it on fourth down.

[00:47:05] Miss it.

[00:47:06] Like, you know?

[00:47:07] Yeah.

[00:47:11] I don't know.

[00:47:12] I mean, the Ravens have just been so consistently good that it's hard to...

[00:47:17] Ryan's re-talked me into it.

[00:47:19] Give me the over.

[00:47:20] All right.

[00:47:21] I need a W here.

[00:47:22] You're right, Ryan.

[00:47:23] I'm not going to feel good about an 0-3 week.

[00:47:25] I'm going to feel real bad about it.

[00:47:27] And so we need a 1 in there.

[00:47:30] That's going to put good mojo for us going forward for my last pick,

[00:47:35] which we're hoping to land in, like, the plus 100 area.

[00:47:40] It'd be great.

[00:47:40] You should make your number be, like, 57 and make Dan count for the next hour.

[00:47:48] Yeah.

[00:47:51] All right.

[00:47:52] Dikembe Mutombo.

[00:47:56] Yeah.

[00:47:58] My last bet.

[00:48:00] We sort of teased this earlier.

[00:48:04] But I'm going to take the Denver Broncos defense to score a touchdown.

[00:48:08] Defense or special teams.

[00:48:10] It's plus 360.

[00:48:13] I don't know if you could make this number high enough for me not to want to take it.

[00:48:18] The Panthers have been giving away the ball.

[00:48:21] They've just actively been handing it to the other team three times a game.

[00:48:26] So I think the odds of that one of those going back for a touchdown is pretty high.

[00:48:31] So.

[00:48:32] The other thing that happened in the Saints game, but has been pretty consistent this year,

[00:48:37] is, like, the pressure rate for the Broncos is good.

[00:48:39] And that just gives you, like, more touchdown.

[00:48:44] Not just pick six-wise, but, like, you get the strip sack.

[00:48:48] No, that's exactly what I'm.

[00:48:50] You know, like.

[00:48:51] That's what I'm thinking about.

[00:48:52] I don't even know if their quarterbacks are good enough to throw it to the other team.

[00:48:56] I don't think they're going to throw it to anybody.

[00:48:59] Just straighten the ground.

[00:49:01] Yeah.

[00:49:02] It might be the best strategy, honestly.

[00:49:05] All right, Dan.

[00:49:07] My last one here.

[00:49:09] I know he won't lead me astray.

[00:49:12] Jokic.

[00:49:13] 15.

[00:49:14] All right, Dan.

[00:49:14] If you could just scroll whatever game your finger was on and then 15.

[00:49:22] Let's see what the bet is.

[00:49:24] This is Valey all receiving yards in the Denver game.

[00:49:30] Oh, Dan.

[00:49:33] And then 15 again.

[00:49:36] And there's only.

[00:49:37] I'll go with the highest one.

[00:49:38] 100 plus yards.

[00:49:40] Yes, give me that.

[00:49:42] Okay, 1,700.

[00:49:43] Yeah, plus 1,700.

[00:49:45] Valey.

[00:49:46] I kind of like Valey here.

[00:49:48] And my guy, the Panthers are giving up big plays.

[00:49:53] So, like, we can get a slant here.

[00:49:55] For some reason, Bo Nix hates Cortland Sutton.

[00:50:00] So, Valey had, I mean, he had, what, 60 highs?

[00:50:04] I think it was like 65 or something two weeks ago.

[00:50:07] So, I'm kind of.

[00:50:09] You're going to need a 75-yard play here, but I don't hate this.

[00:50:13] No.

[00:50:14] No.

[00:50:15] I don't hate it at all.

[00:50:15] What was it, Dan?

[00:50:16] Plus 1,700.

[00:50:18] Over 100 yards.

[00:50:18] What's like a realistic number for him?

[00:50:21] Those alt totals could be fun for him this week.

[00:50:24] Looks like minus 120 for 25.

[00:50:26] Over 25 yards.

[00:50:27] What about 50?

[00:50:28] Like, what's 50?

[00:50:29] Plus 330.

[00:50:30] Oh, I don't think that's bad at all.

[00:50:33] Do you want to do that one?

[00:50:33] Dude, just change it.

[00:50:35] No.

[00:50:35] Change it.

[00:50:36] Change it.

[00:50:37] I can't.

[00:50:37] It only goes down to like seven.

[00:50:40] It won't go down to 15.

[00:50:41] So, you can pick any of these.

[00:50:42] I mean, those are pretty holy numbers here in Denver.

[00:50:45] We got Chauncey.

[00:50:46] We get John.

[00:50:47] Hold on.

[00:50:48] We get Jokic.

[00:50:49] The power seems to be good, but.

[00:50:54] Hmm.

[00:50:56] I mean, to me, I.

[00:50:58] Nope.

[00:50:58] I'm staying 100.

[00:50:59] I trust in Jokic.

[00:51:01] I trust in the process.

[00:51:03] It's not 15.

[00:51:03] One, two, three, four.

[00:51:05] There's only eight.

[00:51:06] Eight down.

[00:51:08] Dude, Jokic and Makar.

[00:51:12] Okay.

[00:51:13] I don't see how that fails.

[00:51:15] Don't see how that fails.

[00:51:17] Plus, we're going over for a Broncos player.

[00:51:19] This, to me, feels like destiny.

[00:51:21] This, to me, feels like, wow.

[00:51:23] This is when it all turned around.

[00:51:26] This, to me, feels like if it doesn't turn around, this is going to be a pretty funny clip to play back next week.

[00:51:33] It's going to be one and three next week.

[00:51:36] Dude, if I am 0-3 and I have to go back here because these idiots didn't score any points in that game.

[00:51:46] And the only game I took the minus 7,000 on is the one that I should have taken the long odds.

[00:51:54] I am going to be inconsolable.

[00:51:59] And we will have to come up with a new gimmick.

[00:52:04] Yeah, I think Dan might have to be making picks for a couple weeks if that happens.

[00:52:10] Yeah.

[00:52:10] Yeah.

[00:52:11] I think that's fair.

[00:52:13] I think it's just like, hey, Dan, this is a sinking ship, but you need to take it over.

[00:52:19] Kyle, you get one pick a week.

[00:52:22] And until you hit a couple of those in a row, you're not allowed to stack.

[00:52:26] I think that's right.

[00:52:28] You know?

[00:52:29] Help me get back on my feet.

[00:52:32] I think that's right.

[00:52:33] All right.

[00:52:34] Well, this has been a great episode.

[00:52:36] Thank you so much for listening.

[00:52:38] For my co-host, Ryan, and our super producer, Dan the Man Crabs.

[00:52:43] We'll talk to you next week.

[00:52:44] Go Nuggets.

[00:52:45] Go Avs.

[00:52:46] Go Broncos.

[00:52:48] Boo Dodgers.

[00:52:50] And Yankees.

[00:52:53] Bye.

[00:52:54] Lucifer Brothers is a Crab Shell Media podcast.