Week 17: Start 'em or Stidham

[00:00:00] Decepts of the Blucifer Brothers, We Are Life from Russell Wilson's House. I can't find out. I think we're to poop! Oh, well... That's a separate problem. But, we are going to be talking. Russell Wilson verse the Broncos, Who's the blame? A little bit of everybody. And Aaron Gordon,

[00:00:22] Big injury news, Who's gonna step up and fill the gap? Ryan will be bringing to you his hot take as only he can. Get it here first before the rest of the Colorado Media says

[00:00:36] it three weeks from now. Bring a mind. Like that funky music. We need a mind, daughter, Ding dong, Ryan. The Russell Wilson there has ended. You can come back home now to the Broncos.

[00:00:59] How are you doing on this? A black Wednesday in my opinion. We'll get into that. I'm sure throughout the episode, but Ryan, let's before we get into football. Let's just get into you the person. How are you doing? Jared Stidham, baby! He's back! That's how I'm doing. Kyle,

[00:01:20] I couldn't be more happy. Yeah, I, I, I personally am in. I've been working all day. But sort of in one of those, you know, people are in the post holiday haze. You know, they're having strut, they're struggling to find that motivation. I popped out bed this morning

[00:01:41] and I said, I think Russell Wilson could bench today. And every day's a good day where Russell Wilson is running that pond. So, that's how I'm doing. How are you doing, Kyle?

[00:01:56] I was doing better before the Kyle's just tied up this game with the Aves. I swear to God, but at this is live, I have a fair bit of money tied into the Aves' money lot. And we can,

[00:02:10] we could let this be a part of the Rhetik podcast, but I'm not watching the game and I'm only watching Dan and Kyle's reaction to the game. So, you could live this bet with me. So go last.

[00:02:23] It's a beautiful thing. I'm, I'm doing well outside of the sports world. Obviously it was a weird sports day for Colorado with the Aaron Gordon news coming out as well as the, uh, kind of unfolding

[00:02:38] Russell Wilson saga, but let's start with the Russell Wilson saga. So first, um, the Broncos lost to the Patriots and we haven't recorded sense then. So I think it's important

[00:02:54] to give that context of hey, we lost to a team who was trying to lose. I said it too. I didn't say I said Bill Bellicack, he would love to just let this be his last death rattle on his way outside

[00:03:11] the Patriots put Russell in the Broncos into a into a death spiral here and he did it. Yep. So, 2623, objectively, really bad three quarters of football, from Russ and the offense and then the fourth quarter got two touchdowns, two two point conversions tied the game and

[00:03:40] then the defense, you know, couldn't stop, zappy and Devante Parker into kicking a 57-year-old game when he feels goals time expired. So, it that was Christmas Eve. Now, today, it comes out the Broncos are Bench and Wilson, right? In and of itself I didn't think this was a

[00:04:12] wildly controversial thing. If you're a listener to the podcast, you will know, um, with Ryan and I made a season long bet about Russell Wilson's touchdown passes. He went over

[00:04:24] with those two, but Ryan said Ryan was like, hey, with this injury clause, you got to keep an eye on them sitting him down early if we're out of contention. I had to think we need to pause here

[00:04:35] and really say a prayer for my bet. I mean, literally a week to late. We were together on Christmas Eve. We were having a lovely time with the family and Russell threw through that touchdown.

[00:04:50] If you said important to some, and I looked at you and it took me a minute. It took me a minute and I said, ah, that is, I mean, just brutal, but you sort of expected it to throw for a couple more

[00:05:05] in the game at that point and didn't happen not to be. So I really was just a week late in a dollar short on that one and I'm about to be more than a couple dollars short because I'm going

[00:05:19] to have to take you and Dan to the dinner here, which I'm looking forward to. It'll be a nice time with the guys that will have a lovely evening, but it'll be goddamn rust like it would really just

[00:05:31] kick into balls on the way out the door for your boy here. That was tough. So here is this was well known that this was a possibility if you were paying attention, if you were locked in to the Broncos. Right? So the report comes out. I was like,

[00:05:55] with the chiefs loss, I guess I was a little surprised because you talk about a team that appears to be in free fall. The kids, the kids need to choose might not win again. I'm kind of kidding,

[00:06:07] but also if you can lose to a team that doesn't complete a pass after the first quarter, as Kevin Garnet said anything is possible. But the Broncos do have a 1.4% chance to make the

[00:06:22] playoffs, like it's not whatever. So not statistically significant. I think is what we call that. So and if you make the playoffs, you're not doing anything there. We talked about it a few weeks ago

[00:06:39] when we thought the Broncos were going to sneak in, we were like, I can't wait to bet against this team. We knew quarter passing on opportunities. New quarter back, but honestly, if Jared stood up, could somehow win a couple of games, it could get the Broncos into

[00:06:53] the playoffs. It is one of the best opportunities to fade a playoff team that has ever been known to man. So like those low opportunities that we're talking about, like, those are just,

[00:07:06] I mean, we need to start putting some things in order here. Like, we probably need to start drawing up some documents just in case that somehow happens. So anybody put it under the Blues for Brothers LLC. Yeah, I'm gonna be like, we value this company way 1.2 billion dollars.

[00:07:27] If Jared's did him starts two games and we somehow get into the playoffs, we would like to have a loan. Mr. Banker. But so I wasn't shocked, shocked when I heard that news.

[00:07:48] Then the big news comes out from Bleacher Report, from Mr. Schultz Jordan Schultz. And it says that Russ was threatened to be benched weeks ago. This has since been confirmed by Troy rank

[00:08:10] and by Ryan Edwards. Troy rank is of course, it's seven news here and then Ryan Edwards is a K-away. So both pretty connected and pretty local guys. After the Kansas City win,

[00:08:25] the Broncos went to him and said, hey, we're gonna make you an active at some point this season. If you don't get rid of this injury clause, Russ is reportedly a K-away Russ leaked this to

[00:08:43] Schultz or his agent did. Was a reportedly shocked about this and says, no thank you. I will not give up the opportunity to have guaranteed money. Can't forget this in an ESPN story, Russ,

[00:09:05] when he was very early on with Seattle was talking about wanting to be a billionaire as like one of his goals play in the NFL. So like no one who has that as a goal is going to give up that clause.

[00:09:20] It is objectively stupid. It's similar to I look at it like paint manning. They say paint manning never took pay cuts like Tom Brady did for the Patriots because he wanted to have the option

[00:09:34] to potentially be a part of an ownership group at some point with the NFL. So he was like, I need to maximize my earning potential. Nothing wrong with that. Hold on though. Apparently the NFL P.A. got involved. Hold on. You're already editorializing a little bit,

[00:09:52] so I just have to step in here because you're just sort of dropping little seeds of which is objectively stupid of us to do. It isn't it isn't right? Like, if you believe that

[00:10:12] your play is going to constitute them keeping you like you have to know if your Russell Wilson's camp. Yes, of course. Like their dead cap number is relatively large. This uh, if they cut him after this year that dead cap is way bigger than it is next year.

[00:10:35] So you have to know if your Russell after the Kansas City game, you're playing well like the city is on your side. Everybody is saying like hey, this team like Russell Wilson is like

[00:10:47] great, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like we weren't necessarily saying that but that was sort of the sentiment around town and to me it's like, it's not even really my overall point but I

[00:11:01] don't think that if your Russell Wilson's camp like you can just dismiss this out of hand because at a certain point like what are they going to do if this contract gets bought out Kyle? Like do you think Russell Wilson's gonna get signed to another team?

[00:11:19] Uh, I'm not positive about that but that's all the more reason not to give up your final contract money. But I guess when he was hurt, although let me finish my point. Hold on, let me finish my

[00:11:31] point. What I'm saying is that like if they if they hypothetically wanted to get a little bit of good grace from the Broncos side of things right, like if they wanted just a little bit of like

[00:11:41] hey we played ball with this right? Like we gave up that and drew a stipulation we got a little bit of assigning bonus back for it and you now basically have to keep us on the roster

[00:11:53] even if you decide to do exactly what I laid out in my last podcast where you signed a young quarterback, you signed a good backup and you keep Russell Wilson on as the backup. You have a

[00:12:04] quote unquote like quarterback competition in camp and then you keep Russell Wilson on the team like that is that was a feasible option for them at that point right? And I just I don't know for sure

[00:12:20] that like it isn't it wasn't technically in or necessarily I realize that like nobody is ever going to bait this decision. What I'm laying out right now is like maybe logically correct but like

[00:12:34] the wrong decision almost all the time, but if you're Russell Wilson I think that you I can't tell if you're reacting to me or the apps game. You you got it you got to give me

[00:12:49] better eye contact or something. It looks like you're wrong to the apps game and I can't take the fact that's for the side what I'm trying to it's over they lost well they tied right they went over time got to him and that's one of their fuckers.

[00:13:17] From 41 but you were you were talking about whenever you have an opportunity to give up guaranteed money to potentially be a backup to a young guy that's what makes sense. This is not and that's

[00:13:33] Mark Kyle this is not this is not guaranteed money. This is not like his entire fucking contract. I think that's what the disagreement here really revolves around is that what they were asking

[00:13:46] is not for him to give up oh you're not going to make any money if you get hurt like no no that's not over talking about we're talking about a person who is wildly underperforming their contract

[00:13:58] and the team asking for something in order to potentially protect them and the investment for the team and them just in the guy basically flat out saying no. So I'm not saying that that's

[00:14:16] the wrong decision for wrestlers and to make. I'm just saying that like he can't pretend like this fucking decision doesn't mean anything outside of the context of his actual contract right now.

[00:14:29] It actually affects his future of the franchise and the fact that the U or his team is dismissing this out of hand as if they're asking for some all day I can't believe they asked me to give up

[00:14:43] a hundred million dollars like no that's not what they were asking him to do. They were asking him to say hey if you get hurt this year like we want to play you you're playing well that's the

[00:14:54] underlying point of this right like if he just sucked they would have benched him. If he was just terrible and everything was going poorly they would have just said hey you don't get a

[00:15:06] you don't get a decision we're not giving you the option to wave this clause we're just going to sit your ass back down you're never playing in the NFL again they didn't do that they said hey

[00:15:20] if you get hurt we want protections you're playing well but like we can continue to play you if you're gonna not wave this close clause he said no and they said we're gonna play you

[00:15:34] anyways so he ended up winning but I'm just saying I don't know that it's an insane thing for them to ask all right well we'll move along from that uh we both have time to

[00:15:49] make our points so I'll just I'll just wrap up here real quick the timeline of the day. So they rust continues to play continues to win and throughout all of this this is hanging over him

[00:16:08] it then was reported by Diana Rousini who is of the athletic she's an insider there that at that point it was Russ has known that he is probably not coming back next season so even so that hurts

[00:16:23] a little bit of your argument uh for the hey like you've got to get some good will for this organization well this organization has told you you're not coming back um why would you not protect yourself as

[00:16:38] much possible but uh Rousini comes out with that report and I think the final timeline thing is Sean Peyton speaks at the press conference he says yes there's economics here but we're looking

[00:16:56] for a spark by the way that spark is Jared Stidham who has two career starts with the raiders has thrown for seven touchdowns and six picks he's ointu he's terrible Jared Stidham is God awful

[00:17:13] now okay by the way I did want to shout you out because uh let's go Stidham is either going to be an ironic sound clip that we can drop after he throws his fifth pick against

[00:17:29] the judges or we're gonna tear up a terrible charger scene we just got uh they're like raw wind of the air I do want to clarify that I do not think Jared Stidham is good at football

[00:17:42] not just literally anything is better than Russell Wilson in my opinion so it does a better who does yeah if you're saying brown branding wise for the podcast you're soundbite I think was

[00:17:53] spot out it's gonna be great I'm sure yeah I think uh I mean I think hardcore listeners to the pod will know that I was really cheering for Danoo chair early in the year so clearly my goal is not

[00:18:06] good quarterback play it's fun I want fun so yeah um so then so Sean Peyton says we're looking for a spark like the offense hasn't been good enough um all these kind of things uh the last part is

[00:18:27] Russ obviously does not get a chance to speak um so he's just liking tweets out there these there's public likes my man got caught up he's clearly frustrated I did also want to mention

[00:18:47] the other presser that I wanted to that I thought was insightful was from Justin Simmons and Simmons is pretty well respected in the locker room as far as I can tell it's pretty much the voice of

[00:19:00] the team at this part point and he said like Russ is a great dude he's like this isn't the end of his journey he's like this isn't on him he's like it's a he's like it's contract thing he's like

[00:19:13] it's not a like performance I actually think that that is that is a really great demo yeah no I think that if and I think that's actually sort of like maybe our common ground here

[00:19:27] is that this is very clearly to me not a performance based thing if Russ was making like a decent contract just like sort of mid level quarterback he'd be extremely valuable he's decent quarterback but when you're paying a premium position premium money and you're getting a

[00:19:50] sub 50% result like it's not going to be sustainable but anyways continue um so I think at this point I'll just make the my case as you can kind of tell I'm I'm pretty frustrated

[00:20:11] with the way that the Broncos have handled this I think it shows a pretty rudderless directionless confused team and I want to make it clear a few things one I pullheartedly agree with Ryan that Russell Wilson has not performed up to the contract that he has now

[00:20:38] where I think that gets silly is you're worth whatever someone will pay you and often especially in the NFL you're overpaid right after we were wildly underpaid the example to this would be like okay does Brock party get to go to the 49ers

[00:21:05] and God I'm going to win MVP I should be getting my homes money if you've seen my numbers compared to this guy everyone would be like no Brock party you're in an unbelievable system you

[00:21:14] are not the reason right boom boom boom so you can't have a like dynamic week by week moment by moment sort of negotiation uh by the same token it is also stupid and I promise you the chiefs have

[00:21:29] not had any conversations with my homes of like hey man you're the highest played football player can we get some of that back not not not the best quarterback he actually did literally give

[00:21:42] some of it back by restructuring his deal so like he wants what he was what literally what the Broncos came to Rossworth what what the Broncos came to Rossworth is exactly what Patrick

[00:21:58] Bob's agreed to it and the previous well yes so not at all but but yeah it's because the child this is a negotiation though this is a negotiation we don't actually know what they

[00:22:08] well we're offering right we only know what the one side of it is is that correct you know like we have it confirmed from multiple reports that he knew during the season he was not a part of the

[00:22:20] future no shit my home is getting we talk absolutely no hold on hold on me I let you talk for 20 minutes alright let me just say there's a difference my homes gave money back to improve his

[00:22:37] roster that he's going to be a part of the Broncos said hey can you do us a solid before we kick you to the curb no well to be fair the richest ownership group in the world you can go

[00:22:52] if yourself well I think I think that report does change my opinion a little bit if if they literally came to him before the season and said hey there's no way we're resigning you there's like but so but you have to understand where I was coming from it

[00:23:13] from looking at the dead cap number of being like it's so much better if you can just last one more year so like but I think that's what a competent organization does but I think there's a lot

[00:23:27] of fog of war right now I'm I'm gonna be very interested to see like I don't think this story is done I guess is what I say it's not done and I think there's gonna be there's going to be a couple of

[00:23:38] things that happen and it's narratives that change potentially a little bit here so I don't think that we can necessarily like say that these are our definitive positions but

[00:23:50] I do I do think I do think you that you're right that if they came to him and said hey you're not going to be here next year and then asked him to restructure that's while behavior

[00:24:01] that is that's but what I was going to if they didn't do that it to me it's like putting a an employee on a performance improvement plan like hey if we're coming to you it's saying

[00:24:18] you are bad at your job right now and if you don't improve a couple of these things you're not going to have your job anymore and that to me is more of what that

[00:24:29] conversation would have looked like and should have looked like if it if all things being equal obviously we're dealing with a completely different environment like this is not like anything that anybody has ever seen right like nobody has been in a workplace that's like an NFL team

[00:24:49] and I don't think that could be underestimated either like these people are not operating like your classic corporate bullshit like this is the highest level of competition and these people are operating on like a razor's fucking edge so I do think that there are conversations that are

[00:25:07] had that wouldn't happen normally like literally wouldn't happen so yeah I just think you I think of the conversation from moneyball where being is telling him how to tell guys they're getting traded and he's like you just tell him like he's like you just be straightforward with them

[00:25:32] don't be us don't do any of this and all of this just reeks of BS to me like obviously they're the dynamics make sense who's the only one that the ownership is tied to

[00:25:47] Sean Payton who have they let act like a tiny dictator and throw everyone anyone he wants to under the bus there's no pressure, no anything on him after the clip has been circulating now

[00:26:06] he went on before the season and he said it's gonna work with Russ said it's gonna work okay dude you said it was gonna work don't say that like that's need to be held a

[00:26:21] carol on hold on hold on don't you don't get the job unless who say it's gonna work with Russ well you say he interviewed but I'm saying he's giving interviews we have to say that

[00:26:31] though Kyle you have to say that like I'm not disagreeing with you that it's wild that he because I do actually think that he believed that which is different than saying it in public

[00:26:41] but I'm just saying like you can't be judging a coach on coming in and saying like I believe in the guy that you just traded a shit to the draft capital and are also going to pay 250 billion

[00:26:53] dollars for it I believe that he could win football games is like the bare-fucking minimum of what you have to say as the head coach of that team so I don't think we can be caught up on that I do

[00:27:05] actually think the one thing that I wanted to sort of pick your brain on is like if you're the Walden's right now how do you fix this situation because I don't disagree that you've like

[00:27:16] empowered champagne way too much right but you also didn't hire the GM but you haven't fired him like you could just fire that guy and restart or give Sean Peyton more control or like

[00:27:29] like I just don't know how you fix the power dynamic in that front office because I think I agree with you that it's wildly fucked and it tells that actually is fixed I don't know that

[00:27:40] it matters who you put in that quarterback room no we've seen first it was John O'ay had way too much power now it is Sean Peyton and it's classic new ownership right you put your name on a player

[00:27:56] on a coach on whatever your big splash he hire is and you go down with the ship but then why he's being beaten so I think this there is no cohesive plan that's what it screams to me and that's

[00:28:12] why I think all these details leaking have if I am a player and I'm a big time player I don't want to come to Denver I don't want any part of it because there's no cohesive plan

[00:28:34] when you run a business when you run a team you should say I've hired smart people to do their job we've come together in the before the season and we have said here's our plan

[00:28:49] to your point I think it is totally reasonable to say Sean Peyton goes I have concerns I want to use the middle of the field I use short and immediate all the time I want to use the middle of the

[00:29:03] field what a what a request I would dare you shot out of you that's dare you want to cut your shoulder but I mean it's not like a land it's not a lot of the

[00:29:17] Kyle yeah that's not good but like that was on film last year you and I are not out here film studying for 20 hours a week and it was very clear to us that he was uncomfortable in the

[00:29:36] pocket and could not complete passes on timing and tough to believe in the year before in Seattle when teams started to hiring him it was bad and so these were things that were

[00:29:57] foreseeable this is not some catastrophic injury this is not something so but this you should come in and say boom here's what this is hey we don't if we don't trust you to be a part of that

[00:30:10] brain trust we're going to get rid of you boom you we don't but it feels like they're just going week by week I'm talking about I'm talking about George oh I agree but I'm saying

[00:30:23] I think he was dead in the water and they were going to fire him and now then they went on the run and so then they were like oh we and now he's going to get fired in the off season but to your

[00:30:33] point he just and we talked about it on this show you just let him run your trade deadline no first guy was not going to be here why are you putting a guy out there in front of your

[00:30:44] locker room in front of all your guys who's not going to be here as your leader is a quarterback why are you putting a guy in the GM's if the decisions who is not going to I think Sean Payne

[00:30:54] would be a terrible GM you're going to give him that role then give in the role you're fired up it's it's it's the worst case scenario for any of these options like it's and it's honestly

[00:31:11] the thing I mean it's gotten me a lot of places at life have led me to anchor and a lot of them is not having a plan and like you have to be able to say where you're well here you're going

[00:31:31] and where you're gonna get there and if you don't know what the middle of that somewhat looks like you're fucked you are fucked because things are going to come up and things are going to

[00:31:42] come up that you've never expected and if you don't have a structure in place it's going to those things you're going to rock the boat so much that it's going to tip over you're not going

[00:31:51] to be able to survive those things and especially when you're running an NFL franchise like what are we talking about this is baseline stuff like you have to be able to set up that structure

[00:32:05] and when you're talking about Sean Payne running the organization like it appears that he is what that means is that there's in support nation going on it means that he is going around

[00:32:19] George Payton and his making decisions with the ownership that affect the team around the GM and if we've all been environments where your boss is going around another person's boss and that is how shit gets fucked all over your boss isn't really your boss you know it's like

[00:32:36] that's not really the person I go to to get stuff approved that's a nightmare yeah that's a nightmare it's not going to work long term so everybody's been in these types of situations

[00:32:47] but I'm telling you when you get these people and I've worked in an environment in a high division one as athletic department I have been a part of the high division about athletic team I'm telling you when you get people in these situations anything and I mean anything

[00:33:05] that will set you off in an normal work environment is going to be amplified by 10 because these people are not operating like you are these these stakes are not the same like we are talking about a multi-billion dollar business and they are trying to win

[00:33:23] so Sean Payton does not give a fuck about Russ' feelings and neither do the Payton family like they don't care or the petter family but I know it's not your point I know it's not your point

[00:33:35] but I do think everybody's feeling either I think you should but I'm saying you should have a plan and if you have that plan then get him out well I don't care that you like

[00:33:47] why why is he playing against the chiefs to your point if you knew this before this season hey you're preaching the water Kyle don't play I was saying this is literally what that was what

[00:33:59] I was saying in the preseason like that was my argument is don't do not play them don't play I told you I was like I think they should try to lose as many games as possible

[00:34:09] like even while the wedding streak was going on I'm like this is the worst thing that's ever happened to Broncos country I was saying this as it was happening like this is this is the worst

[00:34:19] nightmare this is it's absolutely terrible and honestly if they don't if they fire panor it or they if they fire panor in the offices and it's the biggest indictment on this in our ownership group because it's even worse than letting Ross play out this season

[00:34:40] because you're literally just shooting yourself at the foot like here's here's the problem for patent uh the shan I'm speaking about now for George for penner for a lot of people Condolese Wilson has been Louis Hamilton oh

[00:35:00] I talked about the Louis Hamilton oh yeah him too well maybe not him but Russell Wilson has become the to take it back to a workplace we've all had a workplace where there's someone there who is objectively a little annoying to work with

[00:35:21] who is objectively isn't the best at their job but they're not the root of the company's problems because they're not the CEO but it becomes so easy for the boss for everyone to just kind

[00:35:35] of be like ah this guy you know and everyone's like oh yeah whatever and then you stop and think about it and you're like wait you suck at your job too hey you suck at your job I hate bringing it up

[00:35:49] because I know it makes your part tingle with joy but think about the difference between what we've seen from shan patent and what we saw in that Mike McDaniel's hard not

[00:36:03] yes he said that's a dog shit play oh he said that's a shitty play I just ran there he said and because people weren't trusting that play people had tried to get outside of themselves

[00:36:14] to go make a play he's like and that's on me he said I'll call way better plays than that he's like I don't care he's like I'm a learn from it and I'm gonna get up and I'm a call better

[00:36:23] place right so he started that meeting in which then he went on to point out mistakes players made but he started it right there he said hey I'm making mistakes oh but whole lips out here

[00:36:37] is like oh fourth down 14 the kid could feel go let me scream at us to strike the fact from everyone that I am the giantest pansy on the planet and have been coaching at a mediocre level

[00:36:53] and the only plays I appear to know are screens all right this guy has it's like he's like oh I'm so limited I'm so limited out here oh you just you can't call a reverse you can't

[00:37:08] call something he's like I can't figure out how to use any of these weapons it's crazy while hey Jerry Judy everyone's forgot about him oh hey hey everyone's like hey Russ isn't performing up to his contract who the fuck is who the fuck is

[00:37:30] um who's the whole home guy he's pretty good the linebacker oh no you're talking about yeah yeah I can't remember he's playing well I don't know yeah yeah sanders are you talking about no

[00:37:50] he's so funny backer all my point is you let Bailey's happy and Parker burn you twice if you're patzer take but you know Nick Benito yeah uh like no one's playing perfect football

[00:38:08] no one's calling a perfect game and it feels like right now Sean Payton is creating an environment in which it's their scapegoats and then there's people that he makes excuses for but he's like oh yeah I'm not worried about Jerry Judy you're not I fucking am

[00:38:27] you can't appear to catch a ball if it was glued to his hands so I think we've got under drafted wide receivers fighting for balls in the hands on Jerry Judy is like hit me in a bad

[00:38:38] spot boy you're not concerned about that Sean I think I don't there's a couple of points here that are important I think number one it's just like the Broncos compounded their mistake right so they they traded for a quarterback they thought that they were getting

[00:39:05] Aaron Rogers and they traded for a quarterback that probably was past his prime right and they thought that a way of playing was still going to be relevant in the NFL in the Russell hustle and bustle then they realized that that was a mistake and they needed

[00:39:27] to fix it and they then compounded that mistake by essentially doing the exact same thing and getting a relic of a different age of football to coach the team like Sean Payton is a good coach

[00:39:45] in 2005 like it's just a to your point I don't know maybe Russell's limiting what he can do right like that's the best case scenario is that it's a Russell Wilson problem and like

[00:40:01] I do think that if we've learned anything from Russell Wilson's career it's that this guy is toxic to a fucking locker room and the untold damage I mean Richard Sherman it took two years

[00:40:14] of being on prime video for Richard Sherman not to just constantly talk shit about Russell Wilson in the pregame video like even if it wasn't a Russell Wilson gave he'd just be like

[00:40:28] well Russell would always do some wild stuff in the locker room and I really hated that guy I just like what did you just say why did you do that like there are some things that I think

[00:40:41] are probably not going to be favorable to the Russell Wilson legacy from this tenure in endeavor but I think that I think that Chuck Payton is squeaky clean and annoying I don't think that he's

[00:41:04] like a problem for winning his personality I think he grinds all I think he's point I think he's not problem for winning at this stage in his career is a problem for winning because he's not good but listen I'm not going to take players opinions like too strongly

[00:41:22] because all these idiots love Aaron Rogers and Kyrie Irving all right and those guys are clearly not good for winning and clearly obsessed with being a distraction and clearly not good at I don't know part of winning in any opinion I think to a certain extent

[00:41:44] but I do think that this belongs in a different category like of course there are people that there are people that are different sort of annoying no but I would say there's people that layers off more after my coaches right like you've like everybody I mean venture

[00:42:01] chairman is sort of a beloved to at a figure like I don't think even the people that really hated him in his playing career I think probably have some pretty nice things to say about

[00:42:10] Richard Sherman Marsha on Lynch is I mean a gem of a human being and that motherfucker hates Russell Wilson so like what about pocket yeah he just says he didn't call him he just says he doesn't pick up he said he doesn't have his number yeah

[00:42:29] he said Russell and I aren't really like that so we can cut that if that's not true but what I'm saying I guess is this I think Martyn Lynch one has five people's numbers and I think it changes every day

[00:42:45] I love that about Martyn. Oh it's a pro I wish I could do that I do I guess but yeah the I guess do you think that to to concretely lay it down I guess because we both agree Ross probably grinds on people

[00:43:13] especially once you've established yourself in the league it felt like then the Seattle players were like all right shut up it's enough whereas the Broncos players haven't done it on their own so they're a little bit more receptive to that but do you think that Russ is

[00:43:34] leadership style or personality style in any way shape or form has cost Broncos games. Yes 100% that like way both ways probably like honestly I think it probably works equally both ways I think Russell Wilson's career is littered with these games that are decided on place

[00:44:01] literally decided on one singular play at the end of a game and I think to say that Russell Wilson like what he says in that pre game or that pre play huddle I think not having an effect on the play

[00:44:18] I think is bullshit like the quarterback has the most effect on any NFL play of anybody so well of course but I think that's more skill than like like week to week it appears he just works really hard talks to you a lot about Jesus

[00:44:37] and but that's what I'm saying about his work ethic I don't think the whole lot of you games that's bullshit if somebody came in if Russell Wilson came into the huddle with whatever 35 seconds to go in a game and says to you

[00:44:56] all right Kyle the Lord just spoke to me and he is going to deliver this game to us and then they call the play are you going to you're going to laugh just like you are right now

[00:45:09] and you're going to be like this mother fuckers and saying what the what was the play like that's what I'm saying like that I think is not and I don't you're laughing but I don't think that that is a ridiculous thing to say that Russell will do so

[00:45:26] why do we take you does full on Lord? I think he does a lot of like you don't like so boys you don't think so you don't think so I don't think so that if it's a sin- this is a sin- this is a sin-

[00:45:40] this is a different Christian half time puddle bullshit like the Lord will deliver us this victory like he will it's JV I don't think he cares that much I hope he cares but yeah now I that I guess we disagree there like I think Russell's skill set

[00:46:03] has caused the Broncos games and it makes perfect sense to move on from him I think the way it was handled was bad and I think it hurts the Broncos long term and I think they have they've kind of shown their ass right now

[00:46:17] and I'm not saying that the penners can't grow into it there's a lot of owners who have new owners syndrome and it sucks but that's you know where it goes and they aren't from it and they grow but I think there's a different now hurts

[00:46:34] it hurts the team long term I just don't think that it's a reputation hurt I think that it's just a wallet and your team sucks right now like the team is not good they're just objectively not a very talented football team

[00:46:52] which is bad and when you spend as much money and draft capital as they did on a failure like Russell Wilson you're it's going to take you a while to recover from that so stuff yeah all right and I told you so that's well

[00:47:16] I can't I can't I think I should actually I should have this whole podcast we've been recording for almost 40 minutes now and this whole podcast should have just been a victory lap for me being right about the Russell Wilson to experience because I have then

[00:47:35] I mean we talk about you being a no-stradome dumbass for the the Broncos game so it's you've been a no-stradamus recently I must say but uh I really did just predict every twist and turn of this situation it's been you've been locked in on rest

[00:47:54] you've been locked in on rest and you know we'll see if you can share the same similar connection with Stidom I think I'm just going to root so goddam hard for him I'm not going to know what which way it's what

[00:48:06] I'm going to have to dust off my mind my sentangers welcome back to be in a fan man that's what it is sometimes just I might take another I might take another year it might take a year for my thin to receive back into my back there

[00:48:27] alright that's enough Broncos wanted to finish up we've got big nuggets news I think normally would have been bigger obviously uh the rust kind of swallows it all up in the sprawling nature of it but Aaron Gordon uh was uh bit by dog after the Christmas day game

[00:48:52] he required 21 stitches it's on his shooting hand as well as his face he's going to be away from the team wally heels they didn't provide a timetable for his return however after practice which I always do think is valuable um because it was open media

[00:49:16] availability uh wind did come out Harrison wind did us great work covering the team shut out him we know you're awesome yep big listener uh then he came out and said I don't get the sense that this is a huge long term absence

[00:49:36] it feels like a couple of weeks then this is just a thing where like I'm sure right now his face is messed up like probably doesn't want to be sitting on a bench you know bandaged up whatever like and if it's on your shooting hand like

[00:49:52] yeah you can't I broke my hand I'm my uh right hand freshman year of uh basketball season no big deal not to compare myself for anything but I was sort of providing an air and Gordon like uh presence out there a lot of re-bounding a lot of defense

[00:50:10] and I was actually diving for a loose ball and broke my thumb uh we're a lot of misses on the front DC's a lot of re-bounding opportunities there certainly were a lot of my own re-bounds are often the best the best

[00:50:26] but I often have re-bounded to go get because you know where it's going to go yeah double the anyways I didn't I'm just saying I'm texting about this I don't think it's uh I think it's more of a mental health thing than like a body's healing whatever

[00:50:43] and I think like he probably is like do I have to come sit on the bench with like a bandaged activity like you don't mean like less activity the better if if the stitches are in his hand like you don't want him moving that stuff around

[00:50:57] to yuppet rather him just relax and it's the holidays like I don't think the nuggets are worried about any of this stuff I don't know a lot of people are worried about the nuggets but I don't think the nuggets are worried about the nuggets

[00:51:11] so now um also couldn't come at a better time obviously Memphis and okay see you're coming but uh seven in the next nine are at home they play the pistons, they play the hornets they have some very bad teams coming in here

[00:51:26] so could be some good uh never a good time the miss a starter but uh better time than uh when Jamal was missing I will say if we are every game back to back and on the road um we are going to have a live podcasting event

[00:51:45] with especially guests who will be named later at shotgun will is following the Thursday night Memphis game uh if you know anything you could guess for that special guest might be but we can't reveal anything I don't want to get him in trouble with Adam Silver

[00:52:05] Adam was not invited yeah uh we've made sure that he's off of the guest list uh so uh similar to California schools we've invested and uh does a little wall to you can put your phone in so won't be a recorded event uh visually

[00:52:22] but the audio clips will be coming through although of course if anything happens security cameras will be on and that footage will be leaked to Danzi so don't forget that we said this jaw I mean mystery guest uh mystery guest when getting the ideas um but yeah so

[00:52:46] first things first Pope Aaron's doing okay hope he heals well he's been nothing but a great guy since he's been here but nothing but a great teammate uh mister nugget it's been great heal up take your time agree with everything Mike Malone said uh old but holy

[00:53:07] Sean Peyton probably would have been like well I mean I like you can't pay him that money y'know he's trying to get him to pay him on injury you can't you know he's in a selfish place not good enough

[00:53:17] it's not good enough but instead Mike Malone was like you know all we wanted to take the time not just physically but mentally you know we support and we're a family here oh my god uh anyway so basketball wise um

[00:53:36] who do you want to see start before the podcast started you presented that there were three options which I hadn't considered I was jealous of your take uh and I'm not sure that it's where you're gonna land but it's the fact that you thought of it

[00:53:57] I thought was pretty smart so lay it out for the people because I think it's been floated pretty clearly oh we slide porter down we'll play Watson or we can play holiday holiday has been in with the starters earlier Watson has developed and has been

[00:54:15] ding up uh out there and obviously has a relationship with yoghurt uh whatever holiday looks smooth with the starters when he's played we saw last year Malone would put Jeff Green in instead of doing uh either one of the

[00:54:32] browns because he was like I kind of want to keep our bench rhythm you know them used to playing with each other as many reps as I can get uh so those were the two options that had

[00:54:43] heard floated but similar to how months ago you were saying what about Justin Fields you know now I see it floated in local media circles you know all these months later

[00:54:58] you kind of have one here up your sleeve that the more I think about it the more I think I like it so break it down for me Ryan third option who do you think it is and then who do you want it to be

[00:55:13] like if you were Malone you know they just tell you you can start whoever you want do what you aren't doing man here's what it is I think that it depends on what the goal for the next

[00:55:26] couple of weeks is if the goal is to win as many games as possible I think that uh holiday makes the most sense I think he can like he's super switchball him and we've seen sort of his first

[00:55:41] utility on the defense event my inclination however would be to start Zegnaggi and essentially just plug and play him right so you're playing him at the four next two a yokeage and in hopes that

[00:56:01] either A he shows you something that is indicative of what we've all sort of hoped that Zegnaggi would be in over the last three or four years and we seen in flashes yep and we're always going

[00:56:17] to see in flashes or two you showcase him for the league a little bit here and move off of them because to me he's our most traded blast that and I think the problem is is that when you have

[00:56:32] a person like Zee who's extremely valuable right like he's a wing defender hypothetically he can hypothetically shoot the three he can hypothetically rebound that's a very valuable hypothetical player and when you're actually looking at the trade market in reality and you are getting a

[00:56:52] one second round pickback and having to send something else to them it's like oh it's it becomes a little bit more difficult to actually make that feel good but if you can showcase him

[00:57:09] a little bit more and potentially give him a little bit more run here I was texting with a friend of the pods got and I told him I was like I just wish it was socially acceptable for Zee to go

[00:57:24] to the g league and put up 35 10 in 10 and I it because I think he's that talented like the key in the g league so far that way yeah but like I mean Gillespie's going down there drop and 30

[00:57:38] I know he's not saying like he can be with him 35 10 in 10 like I'm saying like he is just dropping a triple double long that everybody's had and it looks awesome like and I think those are the

[00:57:51] sort of the games that you're just helping for by plugging him into the starting unit next to Yokech like he's looked a little scared this year which makes me hesitant to do it and which is why we won't

[00:58:03] do it but I do think it's an interesting wrinkle and I would look for him to get more minutes I don't think I don't think Milana is going to be shy about playing guys that don't normally get run

[00:58:16] so yeah I so the more I think about it the more I think that's what the nuggets should do. I agree with you I don't think they probably will I think they'll probably go with Justin Holiday

[00:58:29] but I think it can provide you with the because unfortunately the nuggets don't have the luxury of not needing to win some games here right like did thunder are right there the mavericks are playing well right now like the timber wolves are obviously no one's seen

[00:59:03] you want home feel but think about what Aaron Gordon does. Aaron Gordon is physical he goes he does early posts and he plays on the bass line. Zignaji the most recent time we saw

[00:59:20] look good was next to Deandre when we went too big I think Zik is probably a little too small at center and sometimes he looks that way against certain teams so I think he gives you that

[00:59:39] even if it's three his body guess who's also was Aaron Gordon the other part that it took me some time think about it but sliding Michael Porter with all his back issues to take more physical like play for three weeks why on earth would we do that?

[01:00:04] let's Zignaji do it I think that our long term bench unit that we're going to use in the playoffs is then untouched because I don't think Zik will play in the playoffs even if he's on the

[01:00:16] roster and to your point I think maybe with the lack of confidence nothing better than playing with this group because you're going to get dunked on dunked on dunked on dunks. I think I think the

[01:00:33] other option here and what I think is probably more likely is that we actually see you know Peyton or even honestly started holiday because I think to your point he's more

[01:00:49] if a physical presence right now and so I think that's Peyton is a great on ball defender but like he's going to get ballade by a true four so I think what you could see is that

[01:01:06] Michael Porter Jr just comes to the bench sooner and that runs with Zik for basically any minutes that you know could just not be full. So you had that like early 233 minutes of

[01:01:27] Zik into the game for Mike and you let Zik run with Yokech and Murray and then you maybe even bring a Deondra like who now is I think I think the brold is sort of your oyster but

[01:01:44] I think the more that you can put Zik on an island with the bench unit and Michael Porter Jr is going to be your best option or have him always be on the floor with MPJ or Yokech

[01:01:58] because you just always want him to be able to find somebody if find an outlet like he just needs to be able to go somewhere where he knows it's safe and those are two pretty safe places.

[01:02:10] Yeah I love the Zik Naji thing man. I think that's it. If you had to predict we have God feels like we say this every week but we have another back to back. I'll come in here.

[01:02:25] There's this right home. Yes a Memphis and then okay C comes to town. What is your prediction there? Are you going to an all one and one? Yeah so I do not think that we lose a game until January 19th

[01:02:50] sound we play the pistons? That is not a game winning streak. The pistons are on a 40 game and we play the Celtics on the road two nights or three nights after we play

[01:03:10] the Feli on the run and I think we beat Feli and probably lose to the Celtics. But we play I mean this this upcoming schedule the Grizzlies have been playing well but they're we're in nightmare for them. They've also had as a person who was a live

[01:03:31] Grizzlies better they have had a horseshoe firmly implanted in their ass for the last two games they should out of one either of those including the one that I think it was last night or two

[01:03:43] nights ago. Oklahoma City that's a revenge game they lost in home. Charlotte isn't very good. Colton State isn't very good. The magic aren't very good. Pistons, jazz, pelicans, paces, 76ers. I think all of those are wins. And then you get to the Celtics and I think that's

[01:04:10] probably a loss. Just a lot of games. I love this so we will keep track of the Ryan Strico meter to see how close the nuggets can get and my god are we going to be excited for that game. Also

[01:04:26] that just still live at that point. On a betting, on a betting angle here, my reporter Jr rebounds are probably going to be undervalued without Aaron Gordon. He's a typically just sort of an undervalued rebounder in general. You can usually get these line like six and a half

[01:04:46] and I don't think that they're gonna adjust that as much as they probably should. So yeah, I like it. All right, well the bronchzer dumpster fire but we always have the nuggets and can't believe

[01:05:01] the half-slaw's. Yeah that hurt my feelings quite a bit. I was trying to block it out honestly. But we will be back next week after we watch Easton Stick Jared Stidom. It's gonna be somebody. I think somebody else may money about that out of skin.

[01:05:26] Somebody, for sure. Probably in the car, should we ask him? He's got any child cover athlete money. Now honestly, I mean it's my fault for betting on them to do anything good. You know what? I like that Ryan if there's any theme of this podcast. It's

[01:05:48] take a accountability start with accountability and then then people are more receptive to your feedback. So I love that you did that. Take accountability if you enjoy the podcast like subscribe and share it with a friend or two and also say something nice to Kyle and I like

[01:06:09] love compliments. Who doesn't? But, thank you to the man for producing. We will talk to you next week. Things up by. Blue Super Brothers is a crap-shell media podcast.