Week 13: The Good, The Bad, & The Browns

[00:00:00] Welcome in to another episode of The Blucifer Brothers. This week we're talking Broncos playoff push. Can they beat the Browns? Thank God we beat those decrepit Raiders. And what is wrong with the Nuggets? How come the vibes just aren't quite vibing? Dr. Ryan and I get into it and help bring the patient that is Jamal Murray back to life.

[00:00:24] All that and more. Dan, you son of a bitch. Play the goddamn music. Welcome in to another episode of The Blucifer Brothers. Happy, happy Thanksgiving week to everyone except for that two-faced snake, Dan the Man, the producer. That man once again slighted me this week despite winning the picks. What does he say?

[00:00:58] Chipping away. What's a wood chip, Ryan? Small. What is Dan trying to say? Small man out here. You just hate to see it.

[00:01:08] You are small and compared to my dad. This vicious attacks continue. I won't hear any of your malarkey either. All right? I won't hear any of it.

[00:01:17] It is a chip in the-

[00:01:18] Dan the Man. I am-

[00:01:21] I'll defend Dan to the death. You know this already. This is a terrible way for you to start the podcast.

[00:01:26] I hope that you're going to defend him to the death because I'm coming over to his house and this is going to be the last podcast for Dan. I'll tell you that. All right? This is an outrage.

[00:01:38] You'll have to come through me to get to Dan and we know that's not happening.

[00:01:43] I will go through, over, and around you. Much as the New York Knicks did to the Denver Nuggets last night.

[00:01:55] This is a terrible start. What's happening right now? Can we start over?

[00:02:00] No. There's no starting over.

[00:02:01] First, you say Dan and then you insult the Nuggets.

[00:02:05] You know what?

[00:02:06] You've got some negative energy happening right now.

[00:02:08] I'm a truth teller, Ryan.

[00:02:09] You're going to turn this around, I believe in this.

[00:02:10] I'm a truth teller.

[00:02:13] We did get boat raised by the-

[00:02:15] Oh, baby.

[00:02:19] All right. Where do you want to start, Ryan? Do you want to start with the good, with the Broncos, or the bad? Pretty much every other Colorado sport this weekend.

[00:02:28] As I sat with the in-laws and watched the Nuggets.

[00:02:31] It's weird to say they pissed away the game against the Mavericks, but they did piss it away.

[00:02:37] But it's weird when they were down 20.

[00:02:40] Then I watched Coach Prime and the boys get boat raced by KU.

[00:02:47] And I was like, you know what?

[00:02:49] If the Broncos blow this game to the Raiders and the Lakers-

[00:02:54] And Mom would have been happy that KU-

[00:02:58] The Buffs said you're like, what are we talking about?

[00:03:01] I don't know, dude.

[00:03:02] It was arguably worse.

[00:03:04] It was arguably worse.

[00:03:05] It was just, yeah, it was a lot of-

[00:03:08] Oh, I'm sure.

[00:03:08] A lot of sports-related questions, which are innocent and not bad.

[00:03:14] But when your team is losing, when their follow-up question-

[00:03:19] Almost the worst one.

[00:03:20] How has Coach Prime been this year?

[00:03:23] Yeah, he's been pretty good before today.

[00:03:26] Yeah, for this moment.

[00:03:28] The first couple weeks, Art.

[00:03:30] Man, Travis is pretty good, huh?

[00:03:33] Yeah, I really wish anyone else could be good right now.

[00:03:36] Yeah, that's a good point.

[00:03:37] That number 12 seems to be everywhere.

[00:03:40] Does he play both sides of the ball?

[00:03:43] Wow, I can't believe Jamal banked that in.

[00:03:46] Couldn't do that again if he tried.

[00:03:49] Yeah, I sure hope not.

[00:03:51] So thank you to the Broncos for taking care of business and for the Nuggets for reminding

[00:03:58] the Lakers who their daddy is before then probably having a tough game last night.

[00:04:06] All right, so let's get into the Nuggets first.

[00:04:09] I feel like they are kind of in an interesting spot as far as back-to-back.

[00:04:16] They came back from 20 down, should have won the game.

[00:04:20] Some weird, bad execution down the stretch.

[00:04:23] Not normally a hallmark of this team, but lost to a Don Chicholas Mavs team in the NBA Cup.

[00:04:31] It's not so much the NBA Cup.

[00:04:33] Like, who cares, really?

[00:04:36] But it's just like you lost some-

[00:04:39] It's not a sort of who cares.

[00:04:40] It's an actively rooting against them to have to play extra games, go to Vegas, and then

[00:04:47] maybe have to play literally an extra game that the NBA has-

[00:04:51] I mean, we've gotten jobbed on the schedule, which we talked about, but it's-

[00:04:56] No, I hope we get coming last in our group.

[00:05:00] Yeah.

[00:05:00] No.

[00:05:01] It's more just that because of the Jokic being away from the team, which by the way, congrats

[00:05:09] to him.

[00:05:09] Beautiful baby boy, sounds like.

[00:05:12] But they just lost some winnable games, like the Memphis, the Pelicans.

[00:05:19] I mean, I'm not saying you sweep all of those games, but I think you go two of three there.

[00:05:22] So you're trying to make up a win, basically.

[00:05:25] Um, and if they could have gotten Mavericks and Lakers, you're feeling pretty A-OK.

[00:05:32] I don't care if the- I would not have cared a bit that the Knicks came in and did what

[00:05:36] they did.

[00:05:37] Um, but just kind of a weird up and down performance from this Nuggets team.

[00:05:43] Where are you at right now?

[00:05:44] It's early in the season.

[00:05:46] Um, it feels like we keep forgetting that we don't have Aaron Gordon, who was probably

[00:05:54] not our third best player, but definitely our third most important player.

[00:05:57] Um, like I just kind of forget that Peyton Watson isn't supposed to start and that's both a compliment

[00:06:03] to him and like just a compliment to Jokic that you're kind of just like, yeah, there's

[00:06:11] someone dunking on the baseline.

[00:06:13] It seems like it's going good.

[00:06:14] Um, but I mean, so they are missing a P a pretty big piece out there, but still it, uh, it's

[00:06:22] felt inconsistent.

[00:06:23] I would say at best.

[00:06:25] Um, so what, what are kind of your takeaways from this, this week?

[00:06:30] Yeah.

[00:06:31] I mean, it's not super well, I think it depends on what your expectations were going into the

[00:06:39] year.

[00:06:39] Like there are people that really believe that this Nuggets team was God's gift to green

[00:06:46] and have the potential to just waltz through the Western conference.

[00:06:52] And, you know, Jokic at his best plus a Russ, like not a lot of people thought that, but there

[00:06:58] were definitely some local people that thought that.

[00:07:01] Then we have the people who were like, Oh, KCP and Bruce Brown and Jeff green.

[00:07:09] Like who could ever even feel the basketball team?

[00:07:12] Well, those vital pieces.

[00:07:15] Uh, that's not true either.

[00:07:18] Uh, it's somewhere in the middle, right?

[00:07:20] Like this team is figuring itself out.

[00:07:24] Uh, Jamal Murray has been a shell of himself.

[00:07:28] I think you're actually happy.

[00:07:31] I'm happy.

[00:07:32] The perks of this are Jokic is on a completely different planet than he's ever been.

[00:07:39] And this is, I put, I put the, I, the only future I've ever placed on the Denver Nuggets.

[00:07:46] I pitched to win the NBA 750 because the odds were stupid.

[00:07:51] Like he was, he's having his best season.

[00:07:54] And I think it's, it's now not a conversation of whether he's the best player in the NBA.

[00:07:59] It's a conversation of where he sits in the pantheon of NBA players.

[00:08:05] Like that, those are the type of conversations we need to be having now.

[00:08:08] And we've always on this podcast been early to those conversations and I'm ready to just

[00:08:14] shift that now.

[00:08:15] Like this is no longer a debate about, I honestly don't give a shit if he ever wins another NBA.

[00:08:22] He is, he will go down as one.

[00:08:26] And he could retire tomorrow.

[00:08:29] And that's true.

[00:08:29] Terrell Davis, who's on a poster behind me had a very short career, but he's definitely

[00:08:35] like for his peak, he is one of the greatest running backs of all time.

[00:08:39] I think anybody who's watched the NFL for long enough would agree with that.

[00:08:43] So if we set that aside, right, if we set the previous expectations aside, I think you're

[00:08:50] encouraged by Brown's development.

[00:08:52] Uh, I'm encouraged by Watson's development.

[00:08:55] I think he's been playing much better.

[00:09:00] You are shocked by the fact that Saric basically can't buy a minute.

[00:09:06] Uh, and I'm pleasantly surprised by how Russ has fit into the team.

[00:09:13] So don't think that it's something where I'm pressing the panic button.

[00:09:19] Um, but I'm certainly not, not worried.

[00:09:25] I want to win another championship.

[00:09:27] Jokic is clearly the best player in the NBA.

[00:09:30] You need a transcendent talent like that to win an NBA championship.

[00:09:35] And the more years that we put together a team around him that looks like this, the

[00:09:41] less likely that it.

[00:09:44] And I'm not even saying that I don't think that this team could coalesce into something

[00:09:48] that could win a championship.

[00:09:50] Uh, I was playing around on the trade machine a lot before we hopped on the podcast.

[00:09:56] And I honestly don't like, it's hard to find upgrades, right?

[00:10:00] Like everybody wants to be looking around the league and covering this and covering that.

[00:10:05] Like it's great in theory, but when you actually put it into practice, it's hard to improve on this roster.

[00:10:11] Like we're pretty good everywhere, which makes guys kind of impossible to get good value for.

[00:10:18] And also impossible to truly know what because they haven't fully reached their potential.

[00:10:25] You could trade a Julian Strother, but like, I don't really want to, if we could avoid it, you know, the guy shoots the cover off the ball.

[00:10:35] Uh, so I don't know.

[00:10:38] It's, it's been frustrating to watch because they're not, they aren't the fun basketball team should be affiliated with Jokic.

[00:10:50] They don't look like that right now.

[00:10:52] They, the ball isn't popping in the same way when it's really going, they do look like that, which you get those little hits where it keeps you coming back for more.

[00:11:03] To your point, it hasn't been consistent and it doesn't look like it's going to get consistent.

[00:11:11] Uh, and part of that's injury, but that's how it feels through the first.

[00:11:19] Yeah.

[00:11:19] Um, I think they, they would need to win their next, uh, their next five to keep on our 70% to win percentage that we were at seven and three, um, out here, which is, is probably not going to happen.

[00:11:33] Um, but the, for me, I talked about it on, um, threads.

[00:11:41] The encouraging part has been the post entry passes to Jokic.

[00:11:45] I think Jokic has gotten easier points than he's ever gotten.

[00:11:50] Um, I think Russ was the first one to really just like, Hey, I'm throwing it early.

[00:11:56] Like I'm just going to throw it.

[00:11:57] And it feels like Christian has picked up on that.

[00:12:00] Um, even Jamal, like there's been some stuff where it used to be really good to front Jokic.

[00:12:07] Um, and it just was annoying to watch as a fan because you were like, Hey, like I get this guy's way more athletic, but also Jokic is insanely strong.

[00:12:16] Just please make a good pass and he'll catch it.

[00:12:19] And in one fell swoop, like lay it up.

[00:12:22] This man almost tapped it in from 70 feet in LA.

[00:12:25] Like, I think he can do it from a foot away.

[00:12:28] I don't believe that that shot happened.

[00:12:29] We have to pause a little bit because it's, it's not only that it almost went in, it's that he tried it because it counts as a fucking field goal attempt.

[00:12:41] The guy's three point percentage went down because he attempted a 77 foot tip shot that almost went in and he does not care.

[00:12:50] I guarantee you he did it because his field goal percentage or his three point percentage would go down.

[00:12:56] He did it because he was like, well, we have 0.3.

[00:12:59] The only way to try to make it count is to tap it.

[00:13:02] He made three points.

[00:13:03] I figured why not try to make a three point side.

[00:13:06] Yeah.

[00:13:07] Yeah.

[00:13:08] So.

[00:13:09] I love the man.

[00:13:10] He's impossible not to root for.

[00:13:12] Yeah.

[00:13:12] So I think some of that has gone under the radar in talking and listening to people talk about like Jokic's greatness is that the nuggets have gotten a little bit smarter about how to get him points.

[00:13:26] There's been less where it's like three dribbles back down, like fake, fake, fake.

[00:13:32] He still has those in the bag when he needs them.

[00:13:34] Um, and he can absolutely fake the shit out of people in the post still.

[00:13:40] Um, don't get me wrong, but there's been a lot less need for that, which I think is good, especially considering the minutes load.

[00:13:46] It helps to offset that.

[00:13:48] Um, I think that, uh, like you said, I think Brown and, uh, Watson have been awesome.

[00:13:56] And I think that Watson getting all of these minutes is going to pay huge dividends for us.

[00:14:01] Um, I think we've seen Watson take on huge defensive assignments that are going to pay huge dividends in the playoffs.

[00:14:08] Um, I also don't think getting AG.

[00:14:12] I don't think getting AG minutes is bad.

[00:14:15] Yep.

[00:14:16] Brown got those minutes.

[00:14:18] Yep.

[00:14:19] That is what this feels like to watch.

[00:14:22] Yep.

[00:14:23] Um, I think that Malone can fall in love with Russ a little bit.

[00:14:31] Too much.

[00:14:31] I think Russ shouldn't have been in, in crunch time in that Dallas game.

[00:14:37] Um, and so he obviously, I mean, obviously he played unbelievable and I'm not saying he was the reason we lost the game.

[00:14:44] Like they'll get it wrong, but like, there's just no reason not to have Christian has earned the right to be like, Hey dude, I don't give a shit.

[00:14:54] How could you play Christian's coming back in?

[00:14:57] Like he's been awesome defensively.

[00:15:00] He's been super smart and he's been shooting and making open threes.

[00:15:04] Could have gone offense for defense there.

[00:15:07] Like it's not that you have to just stick with one guy.

[00:15:12] Right.

[00:15:12] But I just think, I just think Christian is better in both areas when Jokic is on the floor and with Murray, you don't need the creation on offense.

[00:15:19] We're not going to put the ball in your hands.

[00:15:21] So you're getting spot up Russ, which we ranted about in the beginning of the season.

[00:15:25] That's the worst version of Russ.

[00:15:27] We just don't need it for spot up offense.

[00:15:31] Christian is better.

[00:15:32] And that's just what it is.

[00:15:33] And I think too off the court, ease of Russ, I think it's invaluable.

[00:15:42] The stuff that he is doing on the sideline, he's like a DJ that plays.

[00:15:47] Yep.

[00:15:48] So I think nobody has ever been a person who hated Russ interpersonally.

[00:15:58] Like none of his teammates, even when it ends poorly, none of them are ever like, oh, well, that guy.

[00:16:05] No, they're all like, oh, he was awesome.

[00:16:08] No, I think it's.

[00:16:09] So it's all, it's, he's been great as a whole.

[00:16:12] We've said it on the podcast.

[00:16:13] He's going to play as hard as he possibly can.

[00:16:16] And sometimes it's not good enough.

[00:16:18] And sometimes it is, but he's giving you everything he has.

[00:16:21] And that's awesome.

[00:16:22] Like, um, the, to your point about the NBA, it's the Celtics and everybody else.

[00:16:31] Like if you told me, Hey, the nuggets went to the NBA finals right now, I'd go.

[00:16:37] Okay.

[00:16:38] And if you told me the nuggets got punked out by the Houston Rockets in the first round, I'd go.

[00:16:44] Well, okay.

[00:16:44] Right.

[00:16:45] Like there's in the West, there's a bunch of killers, but there's no one that's like Javier Bardem from No Country for Old Men where you're just like, oh, Jesus, not the air gun guy.

[00:17:02] Like, holy shit.

[00:17:04] He's getting the suitcase.

[00:17:05] Don't flip the coin.

[00:17:07] Don't flip the coin.

[00:17:08] It's like, yeah, there's no one who I'm like, we're that gas station attendant.

[00:17:13] If we get them, they're putting it right in the, until you get to the Celtics, the Celtics, when healthy are unbelievable.

[00:17:22] And it feels people aren't talking about the Celtics team in the same way, because for some reason, NBA fans are stupid and can never establish, can never catch on a narrative when it's actually happening.

[00:17:35] They're like, how could we have seen this without evidence of it?

[00:17:39] I can only report on things that have already happened.

[00:17:43] But like, this Celtics team is just as unfair as the Warriors team was.

[00:17:49] Like, they're unreal good.

[00:17:51] Like, the Wolves played their asses off and it wasn't, didn't even take them to overtime.

[00:17:57] The Cavs played their asses off and didn't even take them to overtime.

[00:18:01] Like, when this team wants to win, they win.

[00:18:04] And that's all it is.

[00:18:05] Especially with Porzingis.

[00:18:07] Yeah.

[00:18:07] It's, it is, it's, you're on a completely different level.

[00:18:12] I looked at the standings, to your point.

[00:18:14] I like took three seconds and looked at the West and was like, what am I doing?

[00:18:19] I'm like, this is stupid.

[00:18:21] But I mean, it's just like, we've had two.

[00:18:24] There are a lot of good teams.

[00:18:26] There are 12 good teams.

[00:18:28] And I'm not sure which of those 12 is really good.

[00:18:32] We've played two really fun games with Dallas.

[00:18:34] I wouldn't pick us or I wouldn't pick against us in a Dallas series.

[00:18:39] I wouldn't pick against us in Memphis.

[00:18:41] I think low-key the Warriors do not want to see us at all.

[00:18:47] I think the Lakers do not want this.

[00:18:51] The Suns, the Lakers.

[00:18:52] Like, you know, you go down the line, you're like, yeah, we could lose to any of these teams.

[00:18:56] Absolutely.

[00:18:59] But the, to your point, the hand-wringing on a night-to-night basis, when we said this in our season preview,

[00:19:07] we said, this team is going to score a lot of points.

[00:19:09] And we said, and they are absolutely going to give up a lot of points some nights.

[00:19:13] And you saw they just weren't connected.

[00:19:16] Also, the Knicks are the ultimate try-hard nerds in the regular season with Thibodeau

[00:19:22] in terms of they're just not going to play a bench.

[00:19:25] So our bench sucks against backups.

[00:19:27] And then when they're like, actually, we're just going to play Jalen Brunson the whole game.

[00:19:32] You're like, oh, that's going to be bad.

[00:19:35] We're going to really bleed these minutes.

[00:19:38] But you could tell they just didn't have the intensity.

[00:19:41] I think they had a very good time in L.A.

[00:19:43] What did you think of Jamal's comments?

[00:19:44] They stayed over afterwards.

[00:19:46] What did you think of Jamal's comments?

[00:19:50] I mean, I don't think he's wrong.

[00:19:53] I just think.

[00:19:55] Oh, here's my thing with Jamal.

[00:19:57] I think Jamal's been bad defensively is what I, that Dallas game.

[00:20:06] He's, I think Jamal, that's the part that people are overlooking.

[00:20:09] People want Jamal to have 30 points a game and all that.

[00:20:13] And listen, he was never that when he was before the knee injury, before this, whatever happened last year.

[00:20:19] Right.

[00:20:21] He was never consistent.

[00:20:22] He's always been kind of explosive.

[00:20:23] And then just a smart run the team playmaker.

[00:20:26] Let me, let me give you some stats.

[00:20:28] But the defensive stuff is bad, Ryan.

[00:20:30] It is bad right now.

[00:20:31] Well, he's, he's just been giving up layups.

[00:20:33] But honestly, the whole team has been.

[00:20:36] It's not, it's not just a him problem.

[00:20:39] The people, everybody's just been living at the rim.

[00:20:42] But I.

[00:20:43] It's not a not him problem.

[00:20:46] No, it's definitely part of him.

[00:20:48] And, and it's athleticism.

[00:20:49] But I do think that the, the offensive stuff has been bad.

[00:20:56] And.

[00:20:56] Oh, for sure.

[00:20:57] I'm not saying.

[00:20:58] I kind of looked, I wanted to look at it and just see what was worse.

[00:21:03] Okay.

[00:21:04] What is he actually doing worse?

[00:21:06] And I thought I was going to find that he was actually just being less aggressive.

[00:21:11] Like he wasn't taking as many shots.

[00:21:14] That's not true.

[00:21:14] Uh, he is taking about a shot less a game.

[00:21:20] He is having his worst percentage from the field of his entire career.

[00:21:26] He's shooting 40% from the field.

[00:21:30] I was like, oh, maybe he's shooting less threes because he's definitely not making any.

[00:21:36] Nope.

[00:21:37] He's shooting almost a half a three more than he did last year.

[00:21:41] He's just shooting his second worst percentage of his career.

[00:21:46] I thought, oh, well, you know, the rebounds and maybe the assist, maybe he's just like dishing off.

[00:21:55] Nope.

[00:21:56] Nope.

[00:21:56] Hasn't been crashing the boards, averaging.

[00:21:58] It is his best, uh, defensive rebounding metric.

[00:22:03] But total rebounds.

[00:22:05] It's well within like he's averaging four.

[00:22:07] He's been averaging four.

[00:22:09] Yeah.

[00:22:10] Assists six a game.

[00:22:11] Been within his career average the last couple of years.

[00:22:14] Like he is just inefficient and hasn't been performing at the same level.

[00:22:22] So it's, it's hard to, uh, and to your point being a Siv on defense.

[00:22:30] So it's, it's hard to really find the bright spots when your second best player is objectively having one of the worst years of his career statistically.

[00:22:45] So.

[00:22:46] Yep.

[00:22:47] Um, it's obviously.

[00:22:51] He was banged up in the playoffs last year, but I think the book is out that like Murray doesn't like ball pressure and he doesn't like you up in his stuff.

[00:23:03] Um, now there are some times where like, you'll make him mad and he'll go at someone and make it a ridiculous shot.

[00:23:10] And if it goes in, he is going to score eight points that quarter.

[00:23:14] Like he still has that level to his game.

[00:23:16] Um, but to me, the more cons like, yes, it's concerning to me the shooting.

[00:23:23] Um, but I do think more than that, it's like the decision making because it's almost like he's trying to prove because we've taken some dumb shots where we, it's like your initial two actions didn't work.

[00:23:38] And yes, there are eight seconds on the shot clock, but it used to be eight seconds with Jokic and Murray felt like forever.

[00:23:46] And teams would be like, I swear to God, they, they got three looks that we defended the first two.

[00:23:53] Great.

[00:23:53] In this eight seconds.

[00:23:54] And then just got a layup.

[00:23:55] And now it feels like a lot of one-on-one.

[00:24:00] Um, and Porter's been guilty of it sometimes too, but I don't know what that is.

[00:24:05] But to your point, if there's a guy who's over there, who's just shooting the shit out of the ball, let's just give him the ball again.

[00:24:14] High post, whatever.

[00:24:15] And let him go to work.

[00:24:17] It feels like, obviously that's not something Jokic is going to say or something Jokic is going to be mad about.

[00:24:22] Jokic, like he's going to say, Hey, it's the end of the shot clock.

[00:24:25] We get what we get.

[00:24:26] Like it's fine.

[00:24:27] So he's been jumping on some grenades there, but the part that has been weird to me is the strength of Murray always used to be.

[00:24:35] We always used to laugh when teams would get Murray in a switch in against bigger players.

[00:24:40] Cause we'd be like, this is actually awesome.

[00:24:43] Like he's strong as shit down there.

[00:24:46] And the problem was like really quick guards, right?

[00:24:50] Like he's always had a little trouble with, with the Curry's, with the Kyrie's just foot speed wise.

[00:24:55] But now to your point, people are going to his chest and he's just going backwards.

[00:25:01] Like he can't keep people from getting in there.

[00:25:07] And does that become less of a problem when we get a more physical presence with AG?

[00:25:12] Maybe, right?

[00:25:13] Like that's, that's obviously while Watson is an unbelievable shot blocker, he's not the same physical presence that AG is in the paint.

[00:25:21] Right.

[00:25:22] By any stretch of the imagination.

[00:25:24] So maybe it's a little bit of that effect, but to me, like, it's not even that like there's good players.

[00:25:35] That are roasting him.

[00:25:37] Like he is getting lit up by role players.

[00:25:41] And the thing that kills me.

[00:25:43] That's such a good point.

[00:25:44] Cause he used to, he used to get up for those big guys and they wouldn't give him anything.

[00:25:50] And then it would sort of like, he'd be so tired by the time that the second string came in that he'd give him two easy buckets and then take him out.

[00:25:59] Like it was whatever.

[00:26:00] Uh, but he, it's, he's not getting up for the big guys and he's just getting destroyed.

[00:26:10] Yeah.

[00:26:10] I said, I don't even know that it is.

[00:26:14] It's a layup line out there.

[00:26:16] Honestly, like during the Mavs game, I, it wasn't just a Jamal thing.

[00:26:23] Right.

[00:26:24] With, with the, but down the stretch, it sure as shit was.

[00:26:27] But in the second quarter, I looked at Sophie's brother and was like, they're just getting whatever they want at the rim.

[00:26:37] Like it doesn't matter.

[00:26:39] It does.

[00:26:40] It just doesn't matter.

[00:26:41] So it's, it's been very frustrating to watch.

[00:26:44] I will say that I, I'm not, I'm not, well, I guess I am saying, but I think there is something to Jamal as a person who's been hurt in their career.

[00:27:00] And I was, I've had relatively big injuries that take you out of that for a long time.

[00:27:07] Every time you have something like that, it becomes harder and harder to get back.

[00:27:12] And I think that that is, you looks like a guy who lost a little bit of motivation.

[00:27:22] And I'm not saying that he's not motivated.

[00:27:25] I'm not saying that he can't get back to that.

[00:27:28] I'm saying right now on November 26th, it does not look like Jamal Murray gives a shit whether the Nuggets win or lose a basketball game that night.

[00:27:38] From section 372, that's what it looks like.

[00:27:41] He's trying hard.

[00:27:42] I'm not saying that he's not trying.

[00:27:44] I'm just saying he is not playing the type of basketball that tells me he wants to win.

[00:27:50] Because when Jamal Murray is pissed off or when he, when he gets pissed off, it's not this like, whatever, talking in the media bullshit.

[00:28:01] Like he's going to go shoot 14 threes and like he might make three of them, but he hasn't even had one of those games.

[00:28:09] It's not like he's, he hasn't been aggressive at all.

[00:28:12] He hasn't been, the Murray flurry has been non-existent.

[00:28:15] So that's what I want to see from him.

[00:28:18] I want to see a little bit of that fire when we need it.

[00:28:23] And I'm not sure that, I'm not sure when we're going to see it.

[00:28:33] Yeah.

[00:28:34] I mean, there's obviously you talk about the team coalescing.

[00:28:37] I think the thing that stands out to me, and I don't know how it hasn't taken on with Murray.

[00:28:50] And even Porter to an extent, although he's been a little bit better.

[00:28:54] But the quote that stands out to me is Gordon, after we lost to the Warriors, he said, I have to practice.

[00:29:02] He's like, I have to be smarter.

[00:29:04] He's like, Jokic is such a smart basketball player that to maximize what Jokic is, you have to be smart.

[00:29:13] And I have to be as mentally engaged as he is.

[00:29:18] And Murray, during the finals run, was as mentally engaged as Jokic was.

[00:29:23] And so he was getting us a good shot every time.

[00:29:28] Now, he knew where to get that to.

[00:29:31] Okay, we're running this play.

[00:29:32] This is what I want from this.

[00:29:34] This is where I want Jokic to get it.

[00:29:36] Or this is where I'm going to get this coverage look.

[00:29:39] That's going to let me get here, and I'm going to get that.

[00:29:43] And he was just playing with a supreme confidence that comes from knowing what was coming.

[00:29:50] And I think that's what's missing right now is he's trying to prove that physically he is there right now.

[00:30:00] Instead of just being mentally calm and saying, listen, I've been here before at the highest levels of coaches dissecting your game and trying to find every single way to try and stop you.

[00:30:16] And I cooked those motherfuckers.

[00:30:20] And that's where your confidence should come from.

[00:30:22] Is I've seen every coverage you could throw at me, and I know what we're going to try to get here.

[00:30:28] And I am going to just be in that now, and that's where I'm going to be.

[00:30:33] Right?

[00:30:34] In the floor general sense of things, instead of the lights.

[00:30:39] Oh, I need to get to my one-legged step back.

[00:30:42] We just don't need you taking one-legged step backs.

[00:30:45] That's bad offense for us.

[00:30:47] Because they'll go in sometimes, and if we're desperation, take it.

[00:30:51] Come on, man.

[00:30:52] But just use your brain.

[00:30:57] He's taking the hard option all the time as opposed to taking the easy way.

[00:31:02] And it's frustrating to watch.

[00:31:06] And that's such a – it's a really – what you've said is an unbelievable way to distill that down into like you're just making things harder on yourself.

[00:31:17] And when you're playing with Jokic, your number one job should try to be to make things easy.

[00:31:25] Because Jokic is an easy button, and that is a very fun way to play basketball.

[00:31:31] Like, I love playing with you because you're fucking 6'7", and people look at you and they're like,

[00:31:37] Well, that big dumb guy is probably going to go in the post.

[00:31:41] And I'm like, Oh boy.

[00:31:43] You guys are going to be very, very surprised and very, very sad.

[00:31:48] And that's very fun to play with somebody who – what they're expecting from you is the exact opposite of what you're giving them.

[00:31:59] And you have the ultimate – literally the best player in the world is like if my brother was 7'2 and way better than you are.

[00:32:11] But like I do feel like I got to experience a little bit of it because nobody expects you to be able to dribble the ball.

[00:32:17] I'm like, Well, he didn't really grow until he was late.

[00:32:20] So they played a lot of point guard growing.

[00:32:22] Like, it's little stuff like that that people don't understand.

[00:32:28] And watching him in person is truly like – I mean, I didn't go to the Knicks game.

[00:32:35] Thank God I sold that ticket.

[00:32:37] But I was at the Mavs game, and we were with Sophie's brother.

[00:32:41] His first Nuggets game, I tried to make him get one of those certificates that they give to kids.

[00:32:47] He wouldn't do it.

[00:32:49] He's full – I mean, he's 30.

[00:32:51] So –

[00:32:52] But I didn't care.

[00:32:57] Like, I loved watching – I just have gotten to a point where I'm so happy that we won the title,

[00:33:04] and I'm so happy that I get to watch Nicole Jokic play basketball on a regular basis,

[00:33:08] that I just don't give a shit anymore.

[00:33:10] Like, it's frustrating to watch him be surrounded by this incompetence,

[00:33:16] but it's also – it makes what he's doing pop even more.

[00:33:20] So, I don't know.

[00:33:23] It's a win-win for Nuggets fans.

[00:33:26] Like, just enjoy this.

[00:33:27] No matter what.

[00:33:29] Even when the frustrating moments happen, just enjoy greatness.

[00:33:33] Because he – like I said at the top of this, which I think we should probably finish on –

[00:33:39] he is no longer – it's no longer is he the best player right now.

[00:33:44] It's where does he fit into the best players of all time.

[00:33:48] That's what we're talking about.

[00:33:50] Which is always going to be a stupid conversation to have while someone's still playing.

[00:33:54] 100%.

[00:33:54] Don't get engaged with it online.

[00:33:57] I'm not saying he's –

[00:33:58] I'm not saying he's even in the top 10.

[00:33:59] Don't do it.

[00:34:00] Don't fall into the thing.

[00:34:01] Just have fun the fact that he's having an awesome season.

[00:34:03] No, I'm not saying he's even, like, towards the top of that list.

[00:34:06] But you just have to start figuring out where you put him on that list,

[00:34:10] which is a different conversation than what we were having a year ago.

[00:34:14] Please, God, don't get pulled into it.

[00:34:16] We should just be taking our victory lap about Joel Embiid.

[00:34:19] Don't get pulled into another thing to where we're into it with Houston Rockets fans

[00:34:25] talking about Hakeem Olajuwon.

[00:34:27] I promise you –

[00:34:29] I feel the same way about Joel Embiid fans as I feel about the Lakers fans.

[00:34:33] I feel sorry for you.

[00:34:35] And that should say something.

[00:34:37] As a Nuggets fan, I don't feel any type of way.

[00:34:40] I feel sorry for you.

[00:34:43] I don't know what to tell you.

[00:34:44] We have the best player in the world.

[00:34:48] You tanked for years to try to get the number one pick,

[00:34:52] and you picked Joel Embiid.

[00:34:55] You picked him.

[00:34:58] And I don't know what to tell you.

[00:35:00] And then as a Lakers fan, like, I mean, come on.

[00:35:03] I was getting into arguments on Blue Sky.

[00:35:06] And all you Lakers fans can give the podcast a follow,

[00:35:09] and I will gladly talk shit to you about the Minnesota titles

[00:35:13] that you no longer should claim.

[00:35:17] Slide the DMs.

[00:35:22] Yep.

[00:35:23] All right.

[00:35:24] That's enough Nuggets.

[00:35:25] When we do the next podcast, Ryan,

[00:35:29] so we've got the Jazz tomorrow.

[00:35:33] Man, do the Jazz have to be so sad that the Knicks did this.

[00:35:38] They're like, God, we stuck anyway.

[00:35:40] Can you fucking leave us alone?

[00:35:41] I had a coworker tell me that he was going to the game.

[00:35:43] He lives in St. George, Utah,

[00:35:46] but he's going to his family in Salt Lake.

[00:35:49] And I said, I hope you have a really good time watching Nikola Jokic,

[00:35:53] because you guys are about to get curb stomped.

[00:35:57] If this team has any championship medal at all,

[00:36:01] this game should be a 20-point blowout.

[00:36:06] Yeah.

[00:36:07] Yeah.

[00:36:12] And then you've got the Clippers, potential revenge spot.

[00:36:18] You have days off.

[00:36:19] You don't have to play until Sunday.

[00:36:21] And then Tuesday, you have the Warriors in an NBA Cup game.

[00:36:25] When we next podcast you, what do you think the Nuggets are?

[00:36:30] In those games.

[00:36:31] So it was Jazz is a win.

[00:36:35] Clippers on the road.

[00:36:37] Right.

[00:36:38] In the Intuit Dome.

[00:36:40] That's a win.

[00:36:43] Then what was the third game?

[00:36:45] Warriors.

[00:36:45] Warriors at home.

[00:36:50] That's probably a loss.

[00:36:52] We've been sneaky bad on the road or at home.

[00:36:56] We're five and four at home.

[00:36:57] Normally, we have four losses in a season at home.

[00:37:02] It has felt a little bit lonely.

[00:37:07] I'm going out on a limb.

[00:37:08] I think we're three and O.

[00:37:10] I think we put it on the Jazz.

[00:37:12] I think the Clippers, I think they're going to come back down to earth a little bit.

[00:37:15] I also think the Kyrie Irving and having Peyton Watson back is actually super helpful for James Harden.

[00:37:25] The Clippers game, we're going to win.

[00:37:27] We own them.

[00:37:29] And then, except for when we lost to him at home after giving up an eight point lead in the fourth quarter earlier this year.

[00:37:35] But that's fine.

[00:37:35] We do stupid shit all the time.

[00:37:36] That's just Nuggets going to nugget.

[00:37:38] And then, I think we're a terrible matchup for the Warriors.

[00:37:41] We'll see.

[00:37:42] But I kind of think that...

[00:37:44] They haven't played them, right?

[00:37:46] No.

[00:37:46] I kind of think that it's going to be one of those games where Curry goes the F off.

[00:37:51] And we just kind of...

[00:37:53] Jokic just kind of scores 100 points and assists on 100 points.

[00:37:58] That's the crazy part about some of these Western Conference teams.

[00:38:02] You literally don't have a guy over 6'8".

[00:38:06] You have wings.

[00:38:08] You have an...

[00:38:09] As they would say in LA, you have hella wings.

[00:38:13] But like...

[00:38:15] I just made...

[00:38:17] Yeah.

[00:38:18] But they don't have anybody over 7'0".

[00:38:21] Like, you do have to have a big body for Nikola Jokic.

[00:38:25] And you can't just double him because he's the best fucking passer of all time.

[00:38:30] And I'm talking of all time.

[00:38:32] Period.

[00:38:34] No question mark.

[00:38:36] Yeah.

[00:38:38] Yeah.

[00:38:39] What pass is on this body like John Stock?

[00:38:46] Yeah.

[00:38:46] But I think there's...

[00:38:48] I think we're 3-0.

[00:38:49] And I think then there's a lot of calming down in this process.

[00:38:55] But I'll be interested to see...

[00:38:57] You look to God's ears.

[00:38:58] What we got.

[00:39:00] All right.

[00:39:01] Let's go to a team that had a little bit more of a positive thing.

[00:39:05] In the end, there were some moments where it was dark.

[00:39:08] But the Broncos, 29-19.

[00:39:12] They swept the Raiders for the first time in quite some time.

[00:39:15] A big win for them.

[00:39:18] As far as Colts lost.

[00:39:23] They control their own destiny for all intents and purposes.

[00:39:28] And we've got one more upcoming before the God forsaken bye week.

[00:39:36] But at least get a little extra rest here.

[00:39:41] This Raiders game, I thought it was really interesting.

[00:39:44] The narrative coming out of this because Jaden Daniels and them lost because their kicker can't make an extra point.

[00:39:52] And apparently their special teams has never played Madden and didn't know you just press spin move after you make a mistake on special teams.

[00:40:02] You're like, ah, that's the wrong direction.

[00:40:04] Spin move!

[00:40:06] I forgot I ran the HP dive, not the HP stretch.

[00:40:10] Spin move!

[00:40:11] Back into the hole.

[00:40:14] But I was surprised at how, I guess, just effusive the praise is for Bo Nix after this game.

[00:40:22] I thought Bo Nix played just fine.

[00:40:25] But let's not pretend like this is a world-beater Raiders defense.

[00:40:31] This secondary sucks.

[00:40:32] It's like everything else.

[00:40:33] And it was pretty short there in the second half.

[00:40:38] Or in the first half.

[00:40:39] Like, it was not good.

[00:40:43] So, I guess I'm...

[00:40:44] They're just a week late, dude.

[00:40:45] It feels like a little bit of a...

[00:40:47] They're always a week late.

[00:40:47] They're never going to be on time.

[00:40:50] You know this by now.

[00:40:51] We should know that they're just a week behind us.

[00:40:54] We were...

[00:40:54] I just didn't know if you had a different perspective on the Bo Nix game if you thought that, you know...

[00:41:01] Like, I agree he made some good throws.

[00:41:03] But I think every week he's had some really good throws.

[00:41:05] We've highlighted them in losses.

[00:41:06] I mean, I still don't think anything beats that touch pass he threw over in the red zone before.

[00:41:12] I don't think he'd thrown a touchdown yet.

[00:41:15] And we were finding those touch passes that he was throwing that...

[00:41:19] I think that's the best throw he's made all season.

[00:41:21] Best performance of the year.

[00:41:23] And I don't think it's particularly close.

[00:41:25] Yeah.

[00:41:26] I mean...

[00:41:28] It's the Raiders.

[00:41:30] Yeah.

[00:41:30] What are we talking about?

[00:41:31] They're bad.

[00:41:32] Like, this team is bad.

[00:41:33] And I think we almost blew it.

[00:41:36] And so, I don't think anybody should be piling on the praise for any part of the Broncos organization for this win.

[00:41:47] And then the fact that you won an NFL game.

[00:41:51] That's deserving of some praise.

[00:41:53] On the road that you...

[00:41:54] To some degree.

[00:41:56] You know, you won a game.

[00:41:58] And that's really...

[00:42:01] I didn't think that they would win this many games in the entire season.

[00:42:05] So, of course, I'm happy that they won.

[00:42:09] They're officially over there or over.

[00:42:13] Yeah.

[00:42:14] Oh, yeah.

[00:42:14] Last week they got over.

[00:42:15] But this week they're...

[00:42:17] Yeah.

[00:42:19] So, I guess, offensively...

[00:42:23] It feels to me...

[00:42:27] Like they're starting to get a little bit more of the deeper progressions across the middle.

[00:42:36] We still haven't connected in any consistent way.

[00:42:41] And I understand with the way defenses are playing, it's one of the harder throws to make.

[00:42:45] And it's not often open.

[00:42:46] Right?

[00:42:47] But I do think at this point in the season, teams are saying, hey, let's see Bo Nix go deep.

[00:42:54] Right?

[00:42:55] Like...

[00:42:55] And we still don't have necessarily the up the sideline burner kind of play.

[00:43:01] And it's not that we have those kind of wide receivers necessarily.

[00:43:04] But it does feel like where earlier it was all quick slants across or it was quick, you know, kind of outs, whatever.

[00:43:18] It does feel like now we're almost using Nix's legs and the fact that teams are going to leave a spy out there to get something in back behind.

[00:43:28] And we got Vele in behind a few times.

[00:43:30] And a little bit more of a chunk play.

[00:43:33] Because the problem with this team, to me...

[00:43:38] Of which there are many.

[00:43:39] Because, I mean, you don't get picked to win five and a half games and be a flawless roster.

[00:43:46] But just the third downs per game.

[00:43:49] We're 10th.

[00:43:50] We are right there with the Chargers and Kansas City, who are obviously two playoff teams.

[00:43:56] Philly is in there at six.

[00:43:58] But the other teams are like Cleveland, the Giants, Chicago, Pittsburgh.

[00:44:03] Like, not good offenses here.

[00:44:05] And so, it does make me happy that we're picking up a little bit more chunk plays.

[00:44:10] So that we're not constantly being forced to execute well on the majority of our plays.

[00:44:16] To grind out first downs, first downs, first downs.

[00:44:19] That's the only kind of progression, I guess.

[00:44:24] The next step that I saw from Bo Nix this game.

[00:44:27] But other than that, I thought it was a totally fine game.

[00:44:31] Like you said, anytime you go on the road as a rookie and you don't poop your pants, I'm impressed.

[00:44:35] Right?

[00:44:36] To some degree.

[00:44:37] But it was just interesting to me that this week, everyone's like, offense rookie of the year.

[00:44:43] Bo Nix is a wrap.

[00:44:44] And I'm like, is it?

[00:44:48] But yeah.

[00:44:50] I guess I thought this was like a C- offensive performance.

[00:44:55] Where would you put it?

[00:44:55] I thought it was kind of C-.

[00:44:57] No, I think that's about right.

[00:44:59] And I think to your point, it's the natural progression of Sean Payton opening up the playbook to a rookie who's now into his whatever, 13th, 14th week in the NFL.

[00:45:15] Like, I don't think it's crazy to assume that Sean Payton is going to trust him more with the type of plays and down the field options and just trusting him to get to that second read or third read even.

[00:45:29] Like, I think somebody on a podcast that I was listening to gave a lot of credit to the quarterback coach.

[00:45:37] And I do think they deserve a lot of credit because when he hits that back foot, he's looking at his first option.

[00:45:46] Which, if you're watching a rookie quarterback in the NFL, typically they're looking at whoever the fuck is running as fast as they can on the defense at them.

[00:45:57] And it's a natural thing to do to be like, oh my God, what is that 325 pound guy doing running at me?

[00:46:06] Like, that's very natural.

[00:46:08] And Bo Nix, in the last, say, four weeks, has been hitting that back foot and been looking directly at or towards or looking off the right way.

[00:46:22] Like, everything in his structure has been very much Tua-esque a little bit in terms of, like, quick decisions.

[00:46:29] Like, I don't need to be perfect.

[00:46:32] I don't need to have an unbelievable arm.

[00:46:35] I don't need to be any of these things.

[00:46:36] I need to just get the ball out quickly to the option that's going to be open.

[00:46:42] Oh, it's going to be open because I can read the cover.

[00:46:44] And he can do that, which is a superpower for a rookie.

[00:46:50] Like, it is, it's very, very powerful.

[00:46:54] And I think every week it shows that Sean Payton is trusting him more and more, which is a positive.

[00:47:04] Like, that has to give us as Broncos fans huge optimism for the future of Bo Nix and how he can potentially continue to evolve in learning an offense.

[00:47:16] And taking those second and third reads and then having the connection with a receiver like Sutton that he's clearly developing where it's like, oh, okay, you're just going to sit down on this third down route as opposed to actually running the route.

[00:47:33] You're going to sit down in the zone and be there for the first out.

[00:47:38] Like, how many times did he hit Courtland Sutton for a third down conversion?

[00:47:43] It's, I think he's showing all of the steps that you were hoping he was going to show.

[00:47:52] So, it's kind of payoff time.

[00:47:55] Like, you do control your destiny, so go control it.

[00:48:00] Like, you can't drop this Browns game.

[00:48:02] You cannot lose at home to the Colts.

[00:48:04] Like, these are things that you cannot do if you're going to be offensive rookie of the year material, which I don't know if he should win the award.

[00:48:16] But, and honestly, as a Broncos fan, it doesn't matter.

[00:48:19] All of this is gravy.

[00:48:21] Like, all of this to me has showed that Bo Nix can be a good quarterback.

[00:48:28] Whether he turns out to be is a completely different question that, honestly, not a lot of control lies in even Sean Payton's hands at this point.

[00:48:40] It's really just talent around you, how lucky you get in the draft.

[00:48:44] Like, all these different things are, but you have a pretty good rookie quarterback on a rookie contract, which is like 10x gold in NFL.

[00:49:01] So, you made up for your, you didn't make up, but you ate a lot of that up on the Russell Wilson scale of how much you fucked up.

[00:49:12] So, now go do something good with it.

[00:49:15] And it's going to be a question of how well can they build a team?

[00:49:19] Not whether Bo Nix is competent enough to quarterback in the NFL.

[00:49:24] I think we've seen enough now that that seems to be true.

[00:49:29] Yeah.

[00:49:30] I think you mentioned the Browns game, and I think it's a pretty good transition point here.

[00:49:37] Obviously, defense played good, but it was Gardner Minshew and no weapons.

[00:49:42] I thought they did a smart thing of having a little bit more attention paid to Bowers this time.

[00:49:50] Obviously, he got loose in the first game, and you could tell there was a little bit more.

[00:49:55] There was the one big hit that Sertain laid on him where they were bracketing him, where they had the Hobbit guarding him for pretend.

[00:50:03] And then Big Daddy Sertain was coming over the top.

[00:50:07] But some question marks from this game.

[00:50:10] Obviously, Zach Allen didn't play.

[00:50:14] Sean Payton said no concerns there.

[00:50:17] And then he said Riley Moss he thought could have come back.

[00:50:20] And he was like, it's an MCL.

[00:50:22] There was discussion about whether or not he could even come back in the game.

[00:50:24] I predict he doesn't play versus the Browns just because your bye is coming up.

[00:50:30] And, I mean, who are you putting him on?

[00:50:34] Right?

[00:50:34] Like, yeah.

[00:50:35] It's like, well, they have Judy and they have...

[00:50:38] What was it three weeks ago?

[00:50:39] And Joker.

[00:50:40] Look at the TV score list here.

[00:50:43] Like, name me one guy who you knew was in the NFL.

[00:50:47] Yeah.

[00:50:49] Yeah.

[00:50:50] And, I mean, you've got Sertain for Judy.

[00:50:51] And then Njoku is the only other real option.

[00:50:55] And I don't know.

[00:50:56] Even as good as Riley Moss is, I don't know.

[00:50:58] If we get torched by a Judy revenge game, I'm going to be furious.

[00:51:01] I think it's far more likely that Jared Judy drops the ball and everyone starts laughing.

[00:51:11] And he never recovers emotionally and tries to fight Steve Smith.

[00:51:16] I think that's a far more likely outcome than Jared Judy cooking.

[00:51:20] Um, because if he, even if he does cook against the Hobbit, um, then they're just going to be like, okay, that's following you around now.

[00:51:30] I hope you had fun.

[00:51:32] No, I don't.

[00:51:33] But, um, so those were kind of the two injuries things.

[00:51:38] The other thing that I thought was a good place to start with this game is there were some moments in that Raiders game where you were like, is Max Crosby going to ruin this game for us?

[00:51:48] Like single-handedly.

[00:51:50] It feels like he's just kind of coming pretty close to just messing up everything we're doing right now.

[00:51:57] And you have Miles Garrett, who is a freak.

[00:52:02] Now he is banged up, like he's playing through an injury.

[00:52:07] Um, but you talk about him being unbelievable.

[00:52:12] And then they have Ward out there for Cortland Sutton physical corner, um, all that.

[00:52:19] Um, also don't forget this Browns team was having a great season and they made it to the playoffs last year, but they were having a great season.

[00:52:27] And then all of a sudden Sean Payton, they were like the number one defense that was historic and Sean Payton just ran a bunch of weird running plays.

[00:52:36] And we just kind of ran over them with Russell Wilson.

[00:52:40] Um, so don't think that maybe there's a little bit of revenge factor for the defense for like, ah, you got us last year.

[00:52:48] Okay.

[00:52:48] We're, we're coming again.

[00:52:50] Um, this, so I feel like the best place to start is was your confidence shaken a little bit in this offensive line that has been having a great season.

[00:53:03] Seeing what Crosby did to it with now miles Garrett coming to town.

[00:53:10] And do you think that there's a little more emphasis on a, Hey, we're doubling every time we're doubling.

[00:53:16] We're tripling.

[00:53:17] Not that they weren't doing that.

[00:53:18] Like they, they emphasized it on the broadcast.

[00:53:20] Like we were trying everything, but Crosby, there were some times where we left him out there and he chased players down.

[00:53:28] He just broke stuff up that a normal defensive end couldn't do.

[00:53:32] But miles Garrett is a normal either.

[00:53:34] Uh, I don't think I'm as concerned about it only because Max Crosby is sort of that one of freak that is not only dangerous, like off.

[00:53:47] When your quarterbacks in the pocket or new as they're sneaking at backside.

[00:53:53] I mean, he chased down a fucking screen pass and was just, that was unreal.

[00:53:59] That, that is a one of one thing.

[00:54:04] Like, I don't think anybody in the NFL does that.

[00:54:07] Uh, certainly not miles Garrett.

[00:54:10] Like miles Garrett is very dangerous, but he's dangerous as you're going point of attack in the pocket, like in those first four or five seconds.

[00:54:20] And he can chase down somebody, but I don't think he's chasing down a running back anymore.

[00:54:25] I certainly don't think he's chasing down bone X at this point.

[00:54:28] So I do think that while he's dangerous and obviously he's going to be in the backfield and probably destroy.

[00:54:38] Oh, next, at least a couple of times.

[00:54:40] I don't think he presents exactly the same type of problem.

[00:54:46] Or the Broncos offense that, uh, in a max Crosby did.

[00:54:52] Um, but that doesn't mean I'm any less worried about it.

[00:54:58] I think this defense is, is very good and is what can keep them in the games.

[00:55:06] And if you let Jameis hang around, he's very dangerous.

[00:55:15] Yeah, I, uh, this is a nervous game for me.

[00:55:20] You and I were talking about it before the pod.

[00:55:23] Um, then Broncos are favored by five and a half here.

[00:55:26] Um, same they were over the Raiders, which obviously they covered, um, in the end.

[00:55:31] Uh, like we said, it wasn't, wasn't necessarily beauteous, but, um, it was there.

[00:55:37] It's a primetime game Monday night.

[00:55:38] Obviously all the hype for Bo is going to be coming in, um, to this game.

[00:55:44] Um, and really a rare primetime showing for him.

[00:55:49] The closest he's come was when we played Baltimore before this.

[00:55:54] And we had Romo and, uh, we saw what happened there.

[00:55:58] Um, we kind of got she lacked.

[00:56:01] This is obviously not as quality of an opponent.

[00:56:03] Um, but I do think that in the end, I think this Broncos defense shows up in a huge way.

[00:56:14] And the thing that was encouraging to me was just the amount of pressure they got, even

[00:56:21] without Zach Allen.

[00:56:22] Um, and obviously the Raiders were behind at the end and, you know, having to throw, but

[00:56:26] there, I mean, Benito has been making himself money.

[00:56:32] Um, that's, that's all we'll say about that.

[00:56:35] Um, but he's been awesome.

[00:56:38] Um, they, they've just had a good pass rush.

[00:56:41] And I think Jameis under pressure equals, uh, a, let me throw a jump ball up there.

[00:56:48] I bet Judy will out fight Pat.

[00:56:49] And I bet he won't.

[00:56:52] The player comes on out the, you can't get a turnover line, which is over two and a half.

[00:57:00] Don't feel great about yet, but take Jameis over half an intercept.

[00:57:08] Yep.

[00:57:09] And eat the juice.

[00:57:10] It doesn't matter.

[00:57:11] Like he's throwing a pick to this time.

[00:57:15] Yeah.

[00:57:16] So it's not a matter of if it's.

[00:57:20] Yeah.

[00:57:21] Um, all right, let's get, uh, our picks out here, uh, for the, for the Broncos.

[00:57:26] Then we can potentially they'll be in there, but, uh, um, I am going to take this Broncos team to win this.

[00:57:35] I think 1710.

[00:57:38] I think this is an ugly game.

[00:57:40] I don't predict good things.

[00:57:42] I don't predict feeling great about anything except for the fact that we win.

[00:57:50] That's.

[00:57:51] Um, I am going to say Broncos 720.

[00:58:05] All right.

[00:58:06] Both of us a little seven pointer.

[00:58:07] They cover, um, I, by the way, would not put this in anything.

[00:58:13] Um, there is the, the, when there's bad teams and they just win, like the Browns just played their Super Bowl versus the Steelers.

[00:58:23] There's a chance for a letdown there, but also Broncos seems a little banged up.

[00:58:29] Like you said, almost a mini bye here, um, for the Browns last one before the bye week for the Broncos.

[00:58:39] It's a be careful out there one.

[00:58:41] Uh, as everyone saw last week with the Cowboys playing no one and, uh, somehow beating the commanders, the Texans blew a game.

[00:58:49] There were a lot of ones that, uh, the chiefs did everything in their power to blow the game against the Panthers.

[00:58:56] Like there, this is the time of season where it's like, why would this team care?

[00:59:02] Why would they try?

[00:59:03] And it's like, well, because it's the NFL, man, like there's not enough longevity for careers, for guys to shut it down for a season.

[00:59:12] Right.

[00:59:12] Like guys are going to try to get contracts.

[00:59:15] Guys are going to try to get stuff.

[00:59:17] Everyone's trying to put something good on tape.

[00:59:18] People still care.

[00:59:20] They're professional athletes.

[00:59:21] Not going to go out there and try to lose.

[00:59:24] Yeah.

[00:59:25] They are not going to be as talented as they probably will lose, but they're not going to not try.

[00:59:33] Yeah.

[00:59:34] Um, all right.

[00:59:37] So let's get into our picks here, Ryan.

[00:59:40] Um, I'm chipping away as some have said, uh, out there.

[00:59:45] Um, slowly, slowly, slowly.

[00:59:51] Chipping might be too, uh, active of a verb.

[00:59:57] You know what?

[01:00:00] I, I was only coming for Dan, but now it's both of you.

[01:00:05] Uh, all right.

[01:00:07] Um, I can get us going here.

[01:00:09] Um, the, I have, this week was hard for me.

[01:00:13] Um, but there is one game I absolutely love.

[01:00:17] Um, I absolutely love the Bengals over the Steelers.

[01:00:22] Um, Bengals minus two and a half.

[01:00:24] It's minus one 20 right now.

[01:00:26] Yeah.

[01:00:27] Shop that line, brother.

[01:00:29] I got you a whole point on draft Kings.

[01:00:31] Minus one and a half minus one 12.

[01:00:35] Yeah, I will take that.

[01:00:38] Minus one and a half minus one 12.

[01:00:40] Um, yeah, absolutely.

[01:00:42] I mean, I think this is a classic.

[01:00:45] The Bengals are insanely desperate.

[01:00:48] By the way.

[01:00:50] Um, this is, I, I think this Steelers team, I talked about most third downs.

[01:00:57] Pittsburgh still has the most third downs of any team in the NFL.

[01:01:01] That includes the Giants in that.

[01:01:04] Um, just for reference.

[01:01:07] Uh, I think they're, they're kind of a hidden bad team.

[01:01:11] Um, and I think that the Bengals season is over basically if they lose this game.

[01:01:20] And so we're going to see Joe Burrow go.

[01:01:23] At home.

[01:01:24] Yep.

[01:01:24] Minus one and a half at home with the better team.

[01:01:27] I, I couldn't agree with you.

[01:01:31] Tomlin as an underdog is always scary.

[01:01:33] Uh, but I, I just think.

[01:01:35] But if you lose to him, it's also like.

[01:01:39] Yeah.

[01:01:40] Yeah.

[01:01:41] Okay.

[01:01:42] But I don't think that the bet was wrong.

[01:01:45] Just because the coach is unbelievable.

[01:01:48] Yeah.

[01:01:48] You kind of have to just.

[01:01:52] I love that pick.

[01:01:54] And I did look at it.

[01:01:58] Uh, who knows?

[01:01:59] Maybe I'll tell you.

[01:02:00] Yep.

[01:02:02] I'm going to go.

[01:02:03] I tried to do all Thanksgiving day games.

[01:02:07] See if I actually end up doing.

[01:02:09] Uh, cause there's, there are some tasty lines throughout.

[01:02:14] Uh, but I do have a same game parlay.

[01:02:18] For the Dolphins Packers game.

[01:02:22] Uh, this has the potential to be a little bit nasty in terms of.

[01:02:28] In Green Bay.

[01:02:29] Uh, potential for snow.

[01:02:33] Blah, blah, blah.

[01:02:34] It's November.

[01:02:36] Okay.

[01:02:37] Uh, both of these running backs in this, in this game have been unbelievable.

[01:02:45] And so we're just going to assume that they're going to have to hand the ball off.

[01:02:49] And we're going to assume that they have moderately good games.

[01:02:53] We're going to take Josh Jacobs over 60 yards rushing.

[01:02:58] And we're going to parlay it with Devon A.

[01:03:01] And that gets suited to a nice tasty plus 174.

[01:03:11] It's, yeah.

[01:03:11] I mean, 60 and 50 is not a big number for the game.

[01:03:14] So.

[01:03:17] I'm anticipating bad weather and I'm anticipating handing the ball off.

[01:03:22] Okay.

[01:03:23] I like it.

[01:03:25] Um, that I was curious where you're going.

[01:03:28] Cause I cannot figure out what to make of that game.

[01:03:30] I feel like, I mean, you talk about the Packers team.

[01:03:34] Obviously they're coming off of a big quote unquote win over the 49ers, but it's back at quarterback.

[01:03:40] The week before we saw them do everything in their power to lose to the bears.

[01:03:45] Um, but they just refused.

[01:03:49] Um, like this team has not looked like what I thought they were going to look like.

[01:03:54] And Miami's kind of been turning it on a little bit lately with Tua, but it's cold weather.

[01:04:00] Um, I think they also have been playing kind of crappy teams.

[01:04:05] It's kind of surprised that you're struggling with this because you've been lugging, loving

[01:04:09] the ugly pixels.

[01:04:11] The dolphins are like very much in my, the dolphins money line are very much in my purview

[01:04:18] of playing this week because I think that they have been playing well.

[01:04:22] And I think that this is, this has sort of a trap game written all over it for the Packers.

[01:04:29] So I don't know.

[01:04:32] Yeah.

[01:04:33] Um, my next game that I like, I'm going to go to the, um,

[01:04:40] AFC West.

[01:04:42] I am going chargers minus one and a half at the Falcons.

[01:04:46] Um, I think if you get your ass beat by the Broncos, you're getting your ass beat by the

[01:04:51] Chargers.

[01:04:52] Um, and I think this Falcons team, obviously they're coming off a buy.

[01:04:57] Um, it's a short week for the Chargers.

[01:05:00] The rest stuff does not speak to it.

[01:05:02] I just think the NFC South sucks.

[01:05:03] I just think they suck.

[01:05:05] Like every time I see them play versus the Broncos and the Broncos are a pretty good barometer

[01:05:12] for like, what does a nine and eight team look like?

[01:05:15] And when you're getting just shellacked by nine and eight team, it's not good.

[01:05:21] I think it's pretty bad.

[01:05:24] Um, there's some, obviously it's at Atlanta.

[01:05:29] There's that's another reason it's solo West coast team going East.

[01:05:34] Um, it's an early game, all the things, but I just think that Herbert and the boys are a

[01:05:46] lot better than the Falcons and are going to be a okay out there.

[01:05:53] So I, I just think this is, there's a lot of like off the field stuff as far as like

[01:05:59] rest, um, travel time.

[01:06:03] But like when you just look at talent and production, I think normally this would be a like Chargers

[01:06:11] minus like five and a half, six.

[01:06:14] You're, you're definitely on the right.

[01:06:16] Right side of history here.

[01:06:18] So I don't think, uh, got any notes there.

[01:06:23] Uh, I didn't know it was that low to be honest with you.

[01:06:27] Yes.

[01:06:28] The Falcons, the Falcons, the, and that's minus one 15, by the way, the Falcons, the commanders

[01:06:36] and upload those other teams are like kind of on fraud watch for me.

[01:06:41] It's like, you started off well, but once we got tape on you and I called this commander

[01:06:46] shit, by the way, like I'd said that they were going to be super fun, but not very good.

[01:06:53] And they were super fun and very good for the first, whatever, 11 weeks.

[01:06:58] And now they've been kind of bad for the last five.

[01:07:02] And that's okay.

[01:07:03] They, they should take their money and run.

[01:07:05] Uh, I, I think you're definitely getting ahead of some of these middle of the line or middle

[01:07:12] of the season bumps where it's like, okay, we have real data on the, and the public hasn't

[01:07:20] quite caught up to how bad this team has been in the last couple of weeks.

[01:07:25] I think you're doing a great job here.

[01:07:30] Um, I'm trying to decide how crazy to go here.

[01:07:38] And I think I'm going to go a little crazy.

[01:07:41] So what I'm going to do is halftime full time at airs on Thanksgiving.

[01:07:52] This is the first morning game here and 30 AM.

[01:07:59] 1130.

[01:08:01] Central really kick for these guys.

[01:08:04] I'm going to take the bears to be leading half.

[01:08:09] Lions to win game.

[01:08:12] That is plus six 50.

[01:08:14] Uh, I think Caleb Williams has been, I mean, I don't think Caleb Williams balled the fuck

[01:08:21] out last week.

[01:08:22] He played unbelievable.

[01:08:24] He's going to be feeling himself.

[01:08:26] It's Thanksgiving.

[01:08:28] The line.

[01:08:28] You talk about stupid narratives, by the way, all these people who were like, some people

[01:08:34] think that they should bench Caleb Williams in that locker room.

[01:08:38] I'm like, Hey, whoever leaked that, they should let that guy go.

[01:08:43] They should be like, Oh dude, we don't need you on our team anymore.

[01:08:45] That's no problem, dude.

[01:08:46] Thank you for telling us to bench our first overall.

[01:08:50] Thank you for telling us you're a moral.

[01:08:52] No problem, dude.

[01:08:54] Hey, resume dude.

[01:08:55] And don't ask me for a reference.

[01:08:57] Yeah.

[01:08:57] Oh, you do not want a reference from me, buddy.

[01:09:00] Cause I'm just going to send them the video of that, uh, big giant, uh, I forget what it

[01:09:06] is, like a hammerhead beast or something hitting its head in the cliff.

[01:09:10] I'm going to go, he's dumber than this guy.

[01:09:12] All right.

[01:09:13] This guy, no brain.

[01:09:15] Um, but Caleb, you're right.

[01:09:17] He made some absolutely filthy throws in that game.

[01:09:20] I think this has the potential for the lions to come out a little slow bears, like the

[01:09:28] game offense gets off to a slow start.

[01:09:31] There's maybe stupid turnover stuff.

[01:09:34] Like, I just think it could be sloppy first half and the bears to be winning is I wanted

[01:09:41] to kind of take the bears.

[01:09:42] I believe in the bears a little bit.

[01:09:44] I wanted a little bit of bears action and I figured that halftime full time is love the

[01:09:49] plus six 50.

[01:09:51] I, uh, I'm not as bold as you.

[01:09:54] I looked super hard at this game though.

[01:09:57] Uh, um, Detroit is nine and two against the spread.

[01:10:06] Like they're unbelievable.

[01:10:09] Um, and you feel like with a double digit, it has to come down at some point.

[01:10:14] Um, but I was like, Hmm, I don't know if I'm going to take this, uh, anybody against this

[01:10:22] buzzsaw right now.

[01:10:24] Um, and so I like what you're doing with like a, Hey, maybe they come out a little sleepy

[01:10:30] and then they wake up because the way this great offense works, you could be up 10 at

[01:10:36] halftime and absolutely lose by 20.

[01:10:38] Absolutely.

[01:10:39] A hundred percent.

[01:10:40] And have it be down by 20, like midway through the fourth quarter.

[01:10:43] What I really wanted to do is do an underdog tease and tease the bears up.

[01:10:50] But I'm like, I can't guarantee that they're not going to lose by 20.

[01:10:54] No.

[01:10:55] That could be a backdoor cover in the wrong way if Caleb Williams throws a pick six.

[01:11:00] Like, I don't, I don't need that.

[01:11:02] I just decided to have a little bit more fun with it than taking something and then feeling

[01:11:08] shitty about it.

[01:11:09] I'm going to take something plus six 50 and feel moderately.

[01:11:13] Okay.

[01:11:14] I like, um, you talked about, uh, the Thanksgiving game, gobble, gobble.

[01:11:20] Um, I am, you talked about the running, you talked about the weather.

[01:11:25] Um, I'm going to take under 47 and a half in that, uh, dolphins.

[01:11:31] And the Packers game, uh, the under is minus one 20.

[01:11:36] Um, I just think we've seen two in cold weather.

[01:11:40] It's really bad.

[01:11:41] Um, we've seen this Packers defense is pretty good.

[01:11:48] And this Packers offense is pretty bad.

[01:11:51] The only thing that concerns me is that Jordan love has thrown some horrific picks.

[01:11:59] Um, and he threw like four that the 49ers had two hands on and just dropped it because it's,

[01:12:07] that's how the 49ers season has gone this year.

[01:12:09] But like, he is making some tough decisions with the ball that, uh, had me concerned.

[01:12:17] But other than that, like, I don't see tons of explosive plays coming, um, here other than

[01:12:26] the only thing that also I worry about is just with snow, maybe a slip and all of a sudden,

[01:12:32] you know, a chance to get a foot race.

[01:12:37] Uh, and so.

[01:12:38] I very much agree with this take.

[01:12:41] And it actually coincides with that as well.

[01:12:46] Perfect.

[01:12:47] Uh, and I'm going to take a Thanksgiving special that's offered, um, Miami at Packers.

[01:13:00] To take that to be the scoring game.

[01:13:04] And my theory for this is that if you look at the totals, right?

[01:13:09] Like the Giants at the Cowboys is expected to be the lowest scoring game.

[01:13:15] Yeah.

[01:13:16] And I, I think that that's fair, but I also think.

[01:13:21] I could not agree anymore.

[01:13:23] That when you have, when you throw a lot of turnovers in the mix, like I think there will

[01:13:29] be with Tommy Cutlets and, uh, that's his nuts out there for the Cowboys.

[01:13:36] Cooper Rush.

[01:13:36] Cooper Rush.

[01:13:37] I think that they're going to be some turnovers in that game.

[01:13:42] I think there's going to be some high variability plays.

[01:13:46] And I think that this weather actually has the potential to be terrible.

[01:13:50] And this to be like, they could score 13 points in this game and plus 300.

[01:13:55] I love those odds.

[01:13:57] Uh, I was going to stop you in the middle of your bed and be like, Hey, I found something

[01:14:02] with better.

[01:14:03] And then I was like, wait, this is a contest.

[01:14:05] I can't be giving him my good ideas.

[01:14:08] So decided to let you run with it.

[01:14:10] And yours is the safer bet.

[01:14:12] Right.

[01:14:12] But right.

[01:14:13] Right.

[01:14:13] Yeah.

[01:14:14] I'm just going to bet on some high variance in the other game.

[01:14:17] And you're going to be, you're going to be belly full of Turkey.

[01:14:20] We're going to be watching this.

[01:14:21] I kind of like that you have this because it'll give me a reason to find anything to care about

[01:14:27] in this Cowboys and Giants game, uh, which was going to be tough to do.

[01:14:31] Except that today the news came out that, uh, um, they think that, uh, DeVito will be okay

[01:14:38] to go, but he has some arm soreness.

[01:14:41] So in case he's not, Drew Locke's been taking some first team snaps.

[01:14:45] And let me tell you.

[01:14:46] Drew Locke was their second string quarterback the whole fucking year.

[01:14:49] And they jumped.

[01:14:52] So let me tell you, if you want an over in both directions, uh, Locke is your guy because

[01:15:01] he will throw a pick six and he will throw a dime for 50 yards too.

[01:15:08] And so that might help your, your thing.

[01:15:10] If you get some Drew Locke in there too.

[01:15:12] Um, yeah, I like them.

[01:15:15] I think we're, I think we're ringing in the holidays with a nice six to know.

[01:15:19] We haven't done that yet this year.

[01:15:20] So I'm, I'm rooting for us as a, as a six to know a week when you get plus 600 for you,

[01:15:27] I would argue that's a six to know a week.

[01:15:28] Uh, you know, uh, I went two and one and you got a plus 600.

[01:15:35] I would say you made more than if you just won six, 110 minus 110 bets, but you know,

[01:15:43] it would be, it would, yeah.

[01:15:46] A plus 300 and a plus 600.

[01:15:51] That's definitely a lot of value for the audience.

[01:15:54] It's, it's something, it's something here.

[01:15:57] Um, all right.

[01:15:58] Well, thank you for listening.

[01:16:00] Um, Nuggets, if you're listening, please play better.

[01:16:04] Um, we really appreciate it.

[01:16:06] Yeah, it, it'd be good.

[01:16:09] And everyone have a safe holidays with family and we will talk to you next week.

[01:16:16] Lucifer Brothers is a Crabshell Media Podcast.