All Star Break

[00:00:00] Welcome in to the All Star Break. The Nuggets have made it on an eight game winning streak and we are talking all things Nuggets. Is Zieg Naji actually good? What should the rotation be? How high of a seed can the Nuggets get? And the most important question, will they go home with the other man, Larry O'Brien? Dan, play that romantic music.

[00:00:31] We are here on a chilly Thursday afternoon, but Ryan, as they say, the basketball is heating up inside. Mostly college basketball people say that, but it's heating up inside Ball Arena. Ryan, how are you, buddy? Welcome to another episode here. Blucifer Brothers, I am Kyle Poln, joined by Ryan. Now, Ryan, how are you?

[00:00:55] I'm doing well. Basketball's over, though. I don't know why you're saying it's heating up. It stops for like a week. Nobody watches the All Star game. Are you going to watch any of the All Star game? No. None of the All Star game. I'll watch. There's no Nuggets in the three-point contest or anything. I mean, a dunk contest, maybe. Pretty bad group this year. Max McClung is in there, right?

[00:01:24] I clearly do not support the NBA-ification where fans just watch highlights and don't watch the full games. So, on one hand, the NBA has never been more popular, and on the other hand, the ratings are terrible. But I do support consuming All Star weekend through social media. Yeah, 100%. Hey, man, Damian Lillard lost his mind in the three-point contest? Awesome. Awesome. I'll go find it on Instagram.

[00:01:54] I'll find the clip. Chuck said something funny with Jokic. Great, I'll find the clip. It's no problem. I feel like we're also going to miss out on the fact that Luka and Jokic don't get to just throw balls at each other and mess around the whole time. Oh, yeah. I forgot he's not going to be there. Yeah. So, maybe Wemby will have to be Jokic's new foreign friend at the All Star game. We'll see if he makes a new buddy out there. That's really all there is to that.

[00:02:23] But he's going to be so sad. He's just going to have to hang out with Julian Straw that are all weekend. He is not going to hang out with Julian Straw. I'll tell you that. Nor should he, by the way. They're in different places in life. Like, he should go to the Rising Stars game or, like, whatever. Like, make an appearance. But I thought it was interesting when they asked Jokic, like, how cool is it for Julian to get to, like, showcase himself? He's like, he gets to showcase himself every night for the Nuggets.

[00:02:53] Like, you could tell he was, like, his fantasy team. That's where you really show who you are. Like, it was so stupid to him. It's just, it's completely antithetical to what Nikola Jokic believes is good basketball. So. Yeah. But we do have a good episode for you this week. We're sorry our Super Bowl 420 parlay didn't come through. We really thought we had some magic there.

[00:03:22] But you can't win them all. Congrats to the Eagles, I suppose. What a terrible game. And we don't need to recap it. There'll be plenty of time in the offseason to figure out the Broncos, figure out what moves they make, what the roster looks like. So we thought. We did give out first half Eagles, which I believe somebody on the podcast won some money on. Might have. Might have.

[00:03:47] Jeff, we don't give out Dan's big balls bed of the week. Slightly smaller after the surgery. I was going to say, we can't call it that anymore. Yeah. Well, it used to be the overwhelmingly large balls bed of the week. And honestly, that's part of why he got the surgery. Because it's more catchy to just be like, big balls bed of the week. No. And no one else has ever used that before on any media or platform or anything.

[00:04:16] So it's also so original that it's cool in that way, too. So we're going to have a good episode for you this week. We're going to go into the Nuggets. All-Star break. Like, it's kind of stupid in the NBA because when you come back, you're actually in the stretch run. There's less than 30 games left in the season. But it's a good demarcation point.

[00:04:44] The Nuggets obviously went in on about as good of a run as you can, winning eight in a row. And before they'd lost that three in a row, I think they'd won six in a row, Ryan. So, you know, they've kind of cooked here. And they've gotten themselves back. They're one back of the Grizzlies heading in. They're a lot back of the Thunder. And because we're cursed with being in their division, we still have to play them twice. Despite having played them three freaking times already.

[00:05:14] It's awful. Or maybe there's only two. That makes sense. I don't think you play people five. And I don't think they were in our group for the thing. But the Nuggets, so the Nuggets probably have a good chance to get to the two if things play out okay. And barring the wheels just completely falling off the Oklahoma City Thunder.

[00:05:40] And the Nuggets sweeping a road back-to-back in Oklahoma City. It would have to be an injury. I don't think things are going to go well. Them dropping eight games to us in the next 25 would be something else. It'd be a bummer. I think would be the correct term there. But, Ryan, the Nuggets go in. They dropped over 130 points both times.

[00:06:09] We're missing Porter for both of these games versus the Blazers. Aaron Gordon didn't play in the last one. No Peyton Watson. No Russell Westbrook. It feels like this is a new morphing version of the Nuggets that kind of... I think we were kind of on as far as how they're going to play.

[00:06:34] I didn't foresee the starters leaning into the running as much as they have. With, obviously, Christian leading all guards in fast break points. And even with Westbrook out, it almost... It feels like they've even gotten faster rather than slow down. Which is, I mean, an interesting thing. And something that I think they've just made the decision that, like, we're going to try to get some easy points, play fast, do all this stuff, and put a lot of pressure on you.

[00:07:04] And I'm for it. It looks pretty good out there. So, same exact record as last year. I want to... How do you feel? Pause there for a second, though. Yes. Before I answer that, I want to talk a little bit about Christian. Especially in Westbrook's absence. Because I think... One of the things that I noticed, especially last night,

[00:07:31] is he's, like, kind of getting in his bag a little bit differently than he used to. And I'm sort of wondering if that's Russ. If that's a Russell influence. Because they kind of... Like, he's a white man's Russell Westbrook, right? Like, his thing is he plays hard. He's going to be a hustle player. He's going to get downhill. He's not a great shooter, but he can shoot it.

[00:08:00] And if he sees a couple go in, he's kind of dangerous on both ends. Like, to the point where you're like, all right, dude, stop shooting the ball. Or it's... He shoots and makes three out of five or something like that. Like... So, I wonder if that's a little bit of influence from Russ, which is a great, unbelievable news for the Nuggets, if it is. Obviously, Christian's always had that in his bag.

[00:08:29] But he's been so much more aggressive. Particularly, like, when they sag off of him or he notices somebody is sagging off of him. He's just like, oh, I'll go at your chest. Like, the odds of you being able to stay in front of me are pretty low. So... Yeah, I mean, I think... Obviously, we have to be careful about saying similar games. Similar games at this point in their careers.

[00:08:57] Russell Westbrook and his MVP form would have fucked Christian Brown up every day of the goddamn week. No, I'm saying... I got what your point was, but I wanted to make it clear for the listener so that there's no, like... I think it was clear when I called him the white man's Russell Westbrook. Like, he's a downgraded version. He's nowhere near as good as whatever 2012 Russell Westbrook would have been. Like, he's...

[00:09:28] But they play in a similar style in that they have a similar skill set and they have to rely on similar things. Russell Westbrook is probably still doing it on a higher level than Christian Brown is, but they have those same type of attributes that make them good at what they do. Yeah, I think... I think Christian just has figured out, like, I need to thrive in chaos. Like, I need it to be fast.

[00:09:57] If the whole defense is set and I am dribbling downhill... Like, he had that nice move where he crossed over and spun and palm faked. Like, that was a great moment, but let me tell you how many times I've seen Christian Brown break someone down in the half court. Like, I can probably count on it one time. So I think he, like, realized what was making... going to make him successful. And he was like, that's not going to take anything away from our team.

[00:10:26] I can still absolutely be that. I do agree with you. I think he's gotten more confident going downhill off the dribble handoff to where, in the early part of the season, we just couldn't use Christian in the dribble handoff. Teams were like, sure, dude. Do whatever. And it felt like Christian was feeling pressure to shoot threes or to, like, prove that he could make them. And he's just kind of established, like you said, that he's not KCP.

[00:10:55] He is not going to always knock down wide open threes. Now, last night, he was in pretty good rhythm. But that's not... Like you said, if he sees a few go down, he can feel pretty good about himself. But he's done a great work there. Where I think Russ gets... should get a lot of credit is I think Russ raised the IQ of our guards. We talked about it a little bit last episode,

[00:11:22] but the quick re-entries back to Jokic, the different ways we're cutting, the way we're trying to prevent fronts, the way that we're, like, setting things up to try to be like, all right, like, this is how you're going to defend us. This is what we're going to do. To try to just, like, get yourself easy baskets, right? As opposed to... It did feel like last year there were some times where guys were like, we all watched you guys

[00:11:52] just run through the entire NBA with your two-man game. We'll just stand here and watch the two-man game. And while they can still get that, and obviously Murray had an insane night, and I'm sure he'll come up in this in the course of our Nuggets discussion here. So they can still do that, but it's just a lot of work. And I think Russ was like... He said it multiple times in postgame where he's like, I want to make it easier on him. It's not just easier for me because of him. It is that.

[00:12:22] But I want to make it easier on him. And I think now when you see Aaron Gordon with seven assists, when you see Christian getting assists, when you see Pickett getting assists, I think a lot of guys have been like, all right, we can also try to use our creation and then find Jokic or find Murray or find people for easy shots to where I don't have to be aggressive with the idea of getting my own buckets. Like, if I give Jokic anywhere near good post position,

[00:12:51] he's going to put this person in a closet and leave them there forever. Like, so I think that's where I would give Russ a lot of credit. Maybe I'd give Russ credit because it was becoming very apparent that Christian was going to come off the bench before Russ got hurt. And so now Christian's like, I got to use this time to keep myself out there. Well, but I honestly don't know if either of them care.

[00:13:21] And that, I think, is a great part about what Malone has said in postgame. And, you know, I mean, of course he's going to say that shit, right? Like, what else are you going to say? But when he's talking about guys being selfless and thinking about the team before themselves, like, I actually don't know if Russ or Christian care if they're in the starting lineup. I think that they know that they're going to get theirs, whether they're running the backup unit or if they're running with Jokic.

[00:13:51] Like, they're both good enough, I think, at this point. I think the confidence thing means more to Christian than it means to Russell. So I'd be tempted to have Russell coming off the bench, but it'd be a quick sub for me because I want Russell and Jokic playing together as much as possible. So it could be something where you see Russ come out of the game at eight minutes and then come back in when Jamal comes out.

[00:14:21] Like, I'd be creative with the rotation in that way because, yeah, I'm not envious of this situation. Honestly, Malone hasn't ever really had this or he hasn't since the championship window has been open. Like, the starting lineup has always been pretty obvious and I think this is not obvious and it may take a little bit of not tinkering because we kind of know what each of them brings,

[00:14:51] but I guess I talked about it in the last episode. It could be completely matchup dependent too. I don't know. I think now as, I think we're getting close to it, so I think now is as good of a time as any to talk with you about it. We know that you can maximum have a nine-man rotation in the playoffs and usually that ninth guy, it's a very spot duty

[00:15:21] sort of a thing here, right? It's not, it's maybe not all the minutes that ninth guy would like. Um, and I think this will be a good way to kind of give some flowers to some guys who have stepped up in, in some minutes here. Um, so if we had to go through our nine-man rotation, I think the ones we don't need to discuss, uh, this is assuming health, right? We're assuming

[00:15:50] going into the playoffs, everyone's healthy. Um, I think Jokic, I think Murray, I think MPJ, I think Gordon, uh, and I think Christian. I think those five are very obvious. Okay. Uh, Russell is obvious too. I think Russell has gotten to a place where he's obvious, right? Um, I think also, um, and we'll see what he looks like when he comes back, but Peyton Watson is just such a Swiss army knife

[00:16:20] and can help you in so many matchups and is really reliant, especially if you're going to use more of the Gordon at five. Um, that I think he's good in there. Let's go in terms of confidence. So I agree with your five, right? It's Jokic, Murray, Porter, Brown, Gordon are definitely the five. And then I think it goes Russell. And then I actually think that it goes Julian Strother

[00:16:51] uh, before Peyton Watson. And it's not necessarily that I like Peyton Watson is next on the list. He's firmly in that eight man rotation, but I think we just have such a need for a shooter that Strother has to play. Like the guy's been lacing threes. He has to play. Uh, so, and I've really enjoyed the way Malone has been staggering the younger guys with Jokic

[00:17:20] and allowing them to play with him. I mean, Pickett has gotten more, I, we should look at the, we could find the rotations, but, uh, Pickett has gotten more minutes with Jokic in the last whatever, you know, eight game stretch than I bet he's ever had in his career. And I think it's part of the reason why he's looked better. Everybody looks good playing next to Nikola Jokic. Shocker. So I kind of think like giving Jokic the pile of shit

[00:17:49] to make him somewhat comfortable with in case we really need them in a playoff game where Jokic knows that they're not going to be in the wrong spot when he wants to throw him a no look pass for a corner three from Jalen Pickett. Like, I think that's a positive. Uh, but I guess to go back to your question, I think that do you disagree? I guess let's pause here. Cause I think I think you're

[00:18:18] correct in the eight in the confidence level. I would have P Watt over Strother. Um, just because we know what Malone likes. Malone likes you to not do stupid things on defense. And Julian Strother loves doing stupid things on defense. He made Malone call a timeout. Julian Strother likes not trying on defense. 20 seconds. Watson does do some stupid shit on defense,

[00:18:47] but it's over trying. They have the opposite problem. Well, and Watson's going to be on a good player. So like, he's not, all the rotation stuff, Watson's not going to have to deal with as much as Strother. Um, so, but I think you're right there. Here's my question. Has Zeke Najee played himself in your mind into a ninth? It's spot minutes. Uh, you think about a Memphis where they've got the two bigs, they've got Brandon Clark coming off.

[00:19:18] They've got, um, you know, they've got some players coming off the bench. They've got some twin tower potential and to where if you go small, we're a team that for some reason this year just can't get a rebound sometimes. Um, I think there's some, is there some matchups where you could see him being our ninth? Cause I think he's the only option for a ninth. Sure. Yeah. Cause I'm sorry, pick it, but I don't think so. No, no, we just

[00:19:47] don't need another guard. Like Jamal is going to play so many minutes. So you're really looking at like that, you know, two guard or you're looking at, um, a forward. So it's, I mean, it is Zeke or Dario Saric rose from his grave last night and played some minutes. I didn't even think, I thought, I figured he must be on death's door to just be getting DNS's

[00:20:16] or DNPs the way he's been catching them. But, um, no, I don't know. It's, uh, it's the most, it's the biggest hole on the roster. The fact that we're having to talk about Zeke Najee here. Uh, I'm not excited. What do you, do you believe this Zeke Najee? Obviously he's gotten a lot. You talk about someone who never got to play with Jokic.

[00:20:47] He is getting to play with Jokic. He looks the same. I think he looks pretty spry on defense. Um, and I think that switchability is really important in the playoffs. And I think there were those two games where he played really good defense on LeBron. And I was like, holy shit. Like if Zeke Najee can do this, we're going to win three championships back to back. And then it just disappeared.

[00:21:17] Like, I don't know what it is with the guy, but sometimes he shoots the ball. Sometimes he's a great rebounder. Sometimes he plays defense, but there's no consistency. Like, we've been tricked by this before, so I'm just protecting my heart more than anything. Like, I agree with you that he is the next guy. Uh, we've seen DJ come in, and he's been effective. Honestly, he's, uh, he's rebounded, he's played decent defense. He's actually a better, probably

[00:21:46] a better true rim protector. He's not a better defender, but in terms of true rim protection, he's better than Jokic is. Uh, and so, yes, I agree with you, but it is true rim protection. Jokic is barely in our top five. By the way, Zeke Najee is better at rim protection. Aaron Gordon is better at rim protection. Then you got DeAndre, and then I don't think he can give it to Porter.

[00:22:17] Well, he's also, uh, Jokic is also eating everyone's mistakes at the rim, so that doesn't help the old statistical categories either, but he, I just meant eye test wise. I don't, I don't mean anything there. Um, but I do think, I think you're correct. In terms of, we have to acknowledge that Zeke Najee has had runs before where he's looked good. Um, I don't think he's had this long of a run where he's looked good.

[00:22:47] Um, but his other stints where he looked pretty good were all bench minutes, right? Like he was getting the DJ minutes, right? Well, he's not going to start though. No. And that's what I'm saying is you, we have to be careful of the bump. Um, now I think he is a huge guy in terms of if a few things, like if the first two things go right

[00:23:17] and he, you know, hit some teammates, dapping him up, smacking him on the chest. Hey, let's go, baby. He's going to be running through a wall and he's ready to go. Um, and I think you're right that he has that like ability to just kind of be like, oh, I'm doing bad. I'm just going to disappear. So no one notices me. Um, and that I won't be hurting us. Right. Um, I want what I just playing with Russell, like our ceiling is much higher with Zeke Najee than

[00:23:47] with any other option we have. Um, because in the playoffs, God, that's sorry to DJ, but you, you have to be switchable even with these backups. Like you don't want the ninth man though. Like realistically he's going to play probably 45 minutes. It'd be, it'd be matchup dependent one. It'd be matchup dependent. Like I think unless you have multiple bigs to threaten us or you try to go big

[00:24:17] to be like, screw you. You're not playing, getting away with playing Aaron Gordon and going eight men. I think Zeke could do that. the, that he's just kind of gone out there and just played with energy. Like there's sometimes like, yeah, I don't know. Like I think that's all his role needs to be. And so for him to show me success within what your role is on a deep playoff run.

[00:24:46] Do you want to know what he's averaging points for the season? What? 2.6. Yeah. I mean, that's not shocking to me. He's as bad as he could be at the start of the season. I mean, he had 14 last night. I think he had 11 the night before. He's had, you know, he's had some good games. And I just think he's, to me, it's defensive wise. You can put, if you're putting him out there as your ninth,

[00:25:16] you can put together a pretty dirty defensive team if you have him and Aaron Gordon back there. And then you let him run with Murray and that and set some picks, run around, that kind of stuff. I want him playing with Russ. I want him playing with Russ. Yeah. Because Russ will give him some dunks. Oh, huge oops. Yeah. So, and Russ will be positive with him. I think Russ is learning everybody on the team really well right now.

[00:25:46] And he interacts with everybody completely differently. so I I don't know, man. It's fine that we're talking about Zeke Nagy as the ninth man on the Nuggets. Like, that's okay. And I think we can win a championship with Zeke Nagy being our ninth man because Nikola Jokic is that good. But it's, it doesn't

[00:26:15] feel good. It doesn't feel good, but I think so often we forget what it felt like with some of the bench guys before the championship run. Like, Jeff Green was not Mr. Consistency out there. Right? Like, we had depth issues. Like, we were getting murdered in the non-Yokic minutes heading into the playoffs worse than we are this year. Um, and, you know,

[00:26:44] people weren't taking into account the fact that we're just not going to play the bench as much and we're definitely not playing our backup big. But, to me, um, I think it, the, the Zeke Nagy thing is encouraging. One, as a minutes eater, um, for this team as they head down the stretch, we saw the toll the season took on them last year. Um, and then two, I think he's a, he's an energy guy and he's another guy that, obviously, um,

[00:27:14] he's not like a knockdown shooter or anything like that, but he's shown the ability to hit a spot of three. And if you're telling me, you know, there's a Memphis series or something and he's in ball arena and he sees the first two go down that you couldn't, we couldn't say like, oh my God, Zeke Nagy had 13. Of course the Nuggets won. What have he changed completely changed the energy in the building. He was, you know, cause that guy, he goes crazy when he does anything good. Him and Russ, they might have to stop the

[00:27:44] game for minutes at a time so they can finish celebrating. Like full time out, they'll never come to the huddle, just celebrate the whole time. So I do think I like his energy and I like kind of what that is. I think we're kind of getting into the ceiling of the team. You're kind of talking about it, like can they win a championship? So I guess let's go into it first here. What seed do you think they're going to be? Hold on. Sorry. One thing

[00:28:14] before I just was looking it up. I went back and looked at the rotation that we had for the championship run and it's eight guys. So Jokic, Murray, Porter, Gordon, Brown, Pope, Jeff Green, Christian Brown, those eight guys all played in Christian Brown didn't play in one game for

[00:28:43] some reason, but all of them played in all 20 of those playoff games. Christian was lost in that Lakers series. People forget that because he came back and had some great games in the heat, especially on the road, but it was getting unplayable out there. But then everybody else is single digits. Nobody even played in more than six games. Reggie Jackson played in six games. So we're

[00:29:13] fine. To your point, I do think Reggie Jackson, if we're trading Reggie Jackson, Zeke played in five games and didn't play very well, but he played in five games. At least he wasn't good offensively. But again, we don't really need him to be, especially in the playoffs. So if the defensive stuff sticks, we know that Malone will play him. It's the biggest thing

[00:29:43] that's been the thorn in his side. All right, now I'll answer your question about what seed I think we're going to be. I think we're going to get the two. I feel actually pretty confident about it. I just am not sure that the, well, I don't trust the Grizzlies. They've already had a sort of

[00:30:12] rough injury situation. And then you look at everybody else in that sort of realm. So you've got the Rockets, the Lakers, the Clippers, the Wolves, the Mavericks, Kings, the Warriors. I could see them going on little runs, but at this point we've got a three game lead over the Lakers.

[00:30:43] I think we're going on a run. We've won eight games in a row. I think this team is, I think we have the potential to be looking very strong heading into the playoffs and be closing out the season on a very high note. And I think that the Grizzlies are sort of, I mean, like, I feel like

[00:31:12] the year that we won the championship, it was like the Kings or something were the team that were up there in the standings and everybody was like, well, they're sort of ahead of schedule. Wow, that's crazy. The Grizzlies aren't ahead of schedule. They should have been here except Ja wouldn't stop showing guns on IG Live and going to Shotgun Willies and making a stripper's night.

[00:31:43] They, I just, I see them faltering a little bit and I'm not even saying that I think they'll probably be the three seed, honestly, but I think the Nuggets will overtake them. And I think that the race between the Nuggets and the Thunder could get closer than, like, I don't think we're, there's no way we catch them, but I could see that being three games at the end of the, uh, and which matters because currently, if you just look at win-loss record,

[00:32:13] we're only three games behind the Celtics and we're tied with the Knicks and the higher, or the higher win total gets home court in a potential final. So you also got to be paying attention to that, uh, especially as we get down the stretch here. Yeah, unfortunately, uh, we have the, um, we have the third hardest strength of schedule left and Memphis

[00:32:43] has fourth. Uh, the Lakers have sixth, so at least we're all around there. Um, Oklahoma City has 13th. Um, and to be clear, this site that I'm using, it's a, uh, it's tank-a-thon. It's literally just looking at what's the average winning percentage of your opponents, right? It doesn't, um, necessarily take into account back-to-backs or, um, you know, and obviously can't take into account if a team, you know, if we get to

[00:33:13] play the Grizzlies and Jaws' ankles hurt, right? Right. Or if they get to play us and Murray's resting, right? Like, it's harder in the NBA to, like, predict these kind of things. Yeah. Um, but, uh, for what it's worth, that's, uh, that's kind of where we're at. I don't think, if you mean, like, sweating by, like, gets within four games and people are like, oh, they still have two to play, you know, like, maybe, um, there, but,

[00:33:43] I don't think. I don't even, I think that they would have to be resting somebody. Chet took, like, five terrifying falls. I don't know if you were watching that game tonight, but he's back and, oh my god, he hit the floor, uh, four times where I was like, I don't know if he's gonna get back up from that. Uh, and he's just so small. Um, so, they are, they seem, I mean,

[00:34:13] they're rolling. I, I think, I think we could beat them in a playoff series, but in the regular season, I think they're pretty, uh, untouchable right now in the West. Uh, it's boring to say, but I agree with you. Um, I think, I think we're gonna end up as the two. Um, I, I just, Memphis is an intriguing team to me, um,

[00:34:42] as far as what they look like, but I just can't get out of my head the last time we saw them healthy, uh, against Golden State, um, and they just, like, couldn't score enough. Like, um, all right. So, we're going in as a two seed. Um, we'll assume we're playing someone, uh, from the back half of the West. Who knows what that's gonna be? Uh, the West is so deep

[00:35:13] that it's so stupid. Like, you could be the number one seed and be like, you get Wemby and De'Aaron Fox. You're like, I mean, thanks. Oh, okay. They're three and a half games back of the Warriors. Like, that's crazy. The Spurs are three and a half and that's to get into the play-in. The Warriors are the 10 seed currently as it stands right now. Yeah, yeah, you could be the one seed and play

[00:35:43] Jimmy Butler, Steph Curry, and Draymond Green. Yoinks. Yeah, it's pretty bad. If you're the Thunder, that is your literal nightmare. Oh, my God. Draymond Green against those guys in the playoff series. It'd be unreal. Yeah, that'd be bad. He'd break Chet Holmgren. We'd have to, somebody would have to petition

[00:36:12] the league to let Chet wear like a bubble suit or something just to protect him from Draymond. Yeah. And Jimmy, probably. The, okay, so I guess then the next question is kind of a two-parter. First part is like, are the Nuggets better or worse than you thought they'd be? Like, beginning of the season, like what it looks like? And then

[00:36:42] the second part is how far do you think they are going to go? Like, is this a Western Conference finals team? Is this a second round exit team? Is this a championship team? Um, what, what's kind of your, your take on that? I think they've been as, I think this is pretty much what I expected of them at the beginning of the year. I would say about 15 games in, I was like,

[00:37:12] I don't know if this is going to come together like we want it to. Uh, and so given that it feels great to be sitting where we are right now. Like given, you know, 20 games ago, I felt sort of like shit, this feels pretty good. But, um, yeah, I think it falls in line with the expectation. I thought that the Thunder were going to be really good. Um, I didn't necessarily

[00:37:41] predict this from the Grizzlies, which is maybe explain some of my skepticism now, but, uh, yeah, like to seed. And in terms of their ceiling, like, I think that we, I think this is a Western Conference finals team. Assuming we don't have to play it. I think the

[00:38:17] I feel, I mean, it's just the Jokic confidence factor. The Thunder are the only team where I'm like, Jokic may not be able to make up the difference in talent at every single position, basically, uh, other than center. And I'm not positive that we could get through that, but they're really the only team right now that I look at and I'm like, oh, I don't know if Jokic could solve that riddle, uh, with the talent around him.

[00:38:48] And then if, if we got, I guess just to finish it, if we got somehow to the finals, I think we can win. I don't, I, I think the Celtics sort of have nugget syndrome of last year. Like, I don't think they're going to make the finals and I'm not scared of anybody else in these. So come at me with that Cavs bullshit. I'd love to see the Cavs to be clear in the finals. Um, I would not love to see the Knicks. Uh, they can

[00:39:18] shove it too, man. Oh, I don't, I'm yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. We'll see. Um, first of all, I think you highlighted the Nuggets season really going to be really good.

[00:39:48] So atrocious that like you recalibrated your expectations. So it feels like they've exceeded expectations now, but, um, it's not like to your point, everyone thought they were going to be a top four team, even people who were like, this is a step back or this will be, you know, this is, I think this is about right. Um, for me, I still think this is a second round exit team. Um, I,

[00:40:18] I just think that a lot of the ways that we create some of our points aren't going to be available in the playoffs. Um, like Christian Brown is just not going to be able to out effort people and like just be like, I care more on a Tuesday night than you do. So I'm going to run it in that run to the finals though. I mean, the, yeah,

[00:40:48] he, he had some good moments that's for sure. Um, but I'm just saying like right now he's like a consistent 18 point a game score. Like, I don't think we should count on that from him in the playoffs. Um, I, so I just think I, I have real questions about, well, it's been cool to get to rest guys and do this. This stretch run is going to be real interesting to me because I need to see us,

[00:41:19] like hammer down someone who's at least decent. Uh, and I don't mean like hammer down offensively from where it's like, Hey, you know, all those open shots, Yoko's gets people. They just went down tonight. We scored 150 on the thunder. Like we could do that. Right. But, um, I, I'm talking more about like, there were some games in that championship run when you saw the Nuggets try on

[00:41:49] defense and you saw Yoko's try and you were like, Hey, I don't think we're bad at defense. Like, we're not the greatest defensive team of all time, but we're really good on offense. And I think the bar is the same for this year's team. As far as like, if anything, I think the bar is probably a little lower of how good the defense needs to be. Um, but you've got to be

[00:42:18] respectable on that. And you've got to show that against real teams. Um, right. That there hasn't been a full game like that, but not to keep bringing up Russell Westbrook, but he can bring that where he just like, he's not a great off ball defense. defender, as we've talked about on the podcast, but he can just will himself to care a lot and be very effective on the defensive end and bring a lot of energy to the team where

[00:42:48] that effort is sort of contagious and that gets that going. So I hope to that that's a great point. And I hope that we do see that game because it was, those were fun markers where it was like, oh my God, this team has not scored in like four minutes. Yeah, it's the runs, right? Like it's the, like you would be sitting right with the nuggets and he'd be like, man, we're playing our ass off. And then they'd just be like, we're going to try a little bit

[00:43:18] harder. and all of a sudden it'd be 20-0 rock. And he'd just go, well, see you later, boys. Good talking with you. And it doesn't feel like we can string together not even enough stops. Like sometimes it's enough rebounds. Yeah. Like to where I'm just like, Jesus Christ, we're giving up four offensive rebounds to Donovan Klingin. like, you know, it's, uh, it's some of those things. However, if you'd have told me after watching the

[00:43:48] first part of the season that this was going to be the most enjoyable offense in the NBA to watch on a night-to-night basis, I would have laughed you out of ball arena because it was brutal. And so to build kind of the chemistry and get back to the way that we're playing, because I think a lot of the too much is being made of like, athletic deficiencies on the Nuggets, I think it's more of a trust thing. And it's

[00:44:17] because so much of it in the NBA is like, do I think this guy has any chance to stop this guy or do I need to cheat over? Right? And even taking an extra step can be like, oh, you're not going to get back to your three-point shooter. Right? Like, we need to get a hand on the ball or make this pass take a little longer than it normally would. Otherwise, this guy is stepping into a three and he's shooting it basically open. And it feels like sometimes the

[00:44:47] Nuggets have just had overhelping or just not confident that hey, we're switching everything, but this guy might forget. I'm going to stay up here. you know, like, it feels like there's some trust things that have been fixed on the offensive end and on the defensive end maybe can follow here over these last 27 games that they have you left to play. So,

[00:45:19] I think that can be a positive thing, I guess. Yeah, I agree. So, right now, I think I would say second round. To your point, though, if you told me this team was in the Western Conference final or that this team was an NBA champion, I wouldn't be, like, shocked. I also wouldn't be shocked if you told me that we lost to Jimmy Butler and Steph Curry in the playoffs. If you, I was going to say, it's super matchup dependent

[00:45:49] in that second round. Like, there are definitely teams that I think could, that'll be close series, but to me, I mean, I don't know how many times I have to say this on a podcast leading into playoff basketball, but sometimes it just boils down to who is the best player on the floor, and there aren't series in the Western Conference where the answer is not Nikola Jokic. So, that is, that fills me with confidence that cannot be dissuaded even by

[00:46:18] the fact that we spent 15 minutes talking about Zeke Nagy. Free one. How dare you? Last thing here, we got 46 minutes deep in a podcast, and we haven't really talked about a guy who scored 55 points last night. I guess I probably should have worked it in with Zeke Nagy when we were talking about how real is that? how real do you feel like this is from

[00:46:48] Jamal Murray? His points are way up in the past month and a half, basically. He's not looking, you talk about someone who looked terrible defensively. He's back to being like slightly above average as a defender and can be an offensive threat and be a plus, especially with those bench units.

[00:47:18] He's been making those bleed a lot less points. How real do you think this is? How much of it is do you think weak competition or something like that? Are you buying this? You felt like you were like you'll buy Zeke Nagy as the ninth option, but you're not buying maybe some stretches of how good he's looked. Where do you come down on the Murray thing? I mean, I'm buying.

[00:47:47] I think he's in much better shape. I think he probably got pissed off around All-Star break that again, he's not an All-Star and he didn't deserve to be so he shouldn't be that upset. But I think that realization, I think that that does mean something to him. As stupid as that probably is, but I think it does mean something to him. And he I mean, he's an NBA champion,

[00:48:16] so the fact that you're not an All-Star, yeah, I guess, but play better. Well, beyond an NBA champion, he's not Ish Smith NBA champion. He's the second best player, very important reason. Crucial to that. Crucial, for sure. Yeah. They, I, I think that he's in much better shape. I think he's moving much better. I think

[00:48:46] that it's the first time that he's looked like, I'm not going to say the words that he doesn't like people to say, but it's the first time that he's looked like the player that he was when we won the championship, where he's getting to that mid-range game, and he's getting separation on his step back, and he's being able to pull up in transition, and he looks more comfortable playing basketball right now than he's looked in like a year and a half. So,

[00:49:16] eye test wise, like, I'm buying it, and I'm going to trust that Jamal Murray is very good at basketball because I've seen that he doesn't have to score 55, but, I mean, his last 10 games he's been averaging 25. If he can do that, that is great, and he's been, to your point about making the guard

[00:49:45] smarter, like, I think he's been a better facilitator lately, and I think it's coming with him being more comfortable on getting to his offensive game because he can just decide, like, you know what, I feel great right now, like, I'm just going to take this little, like, I'm going to call my own number, we're going to get me to the post, I'm going to back this guy down, I'm going to get to my fadeaway, like, he was doing that last night, like, calling the screen over and being like, no,

[00:50:15] I'm going to just take him in the corner, like, and it's really hard to stop Jamal Murray in that little post action, so, if he's looking like that, it's, it's real, I think. The only thing that you didn't mention that I wanted to highlight as, to me, a pretty big barometer of Jamal Murray being Jamal Murray is his finishing

[00:50:45] ability, like, he's had some gnarly finishes, and this is a guy who's bricking layups, like, two 360s in the last two games, and I think that's confidence in the leg, I think that's feeling stronger, to your point, feeling better about everything, I think that all matters, and so, to me, I'm buying that he's a,

[00:51:15] a good player for us, and I think we won't be blindsided by teams blitzing him in the playoffs like the Wolves did to try to suck his energy out one, and, like, two, he was just bothered by it. I think we've just been like, okay, we're gonna let Jogic or Aaron Gordon or whoever, if you wanna press everybody, that's fine, but, like, you're gonna have to do that to keep

[00:51:44] ball pressure on, we're just not gonna make Jamal Murray dribble through that, so I think that's something they've downloaded that could also help them, and, like, I'm thinking, like, Rockets, Memphis, they have guards that could absolutely, I mean, Oklahoma City, if you're in the Western Conference Finals, like, they have people who could hound him 94 feet, right? And, for whatever reason, as good as he is, he does not enjoy that at all, and so, I think there's something to that.

[00:52:15] The other thing that I do feel like I wanted to hit on is, I think that the fact that this team now has so many reps helps them, especially with what the back half of the bracket of the West is gonna look like. Like, it'd be pretty easy, Memphis, for your, like, second real playoff run. Just see Draymond Green, Steph Curry, and Jimmy Butler and poop your pants a little bit. Like,

[00:52:44] that'd be normal. Oklahoma City, if you have 20-year-old Chet Holmgren and all of a sudden Anthony Edwards is cussing you out and calling you every word he knows, like, might be normal, right? To fall apart a little bit there. And I just think the Nuggets, for better or worse, don't get too high, don't get too low, stuff like that. They're just like, yes, you're good, we're good too, we'll play basketball.

[00:53:15] We will play better next game, hopefully. Yeah, like, I don't see them having some sort of, like, aura loss, right? Which is what I think happened the first time they played the Blazers in the playoffs, right? Like, they just, they weren't ready for the aura of Dame and CJ and the big shots and what those momentum swings look like. And now, everyone who's going to play in that eight man has been through it in

[00:53:45] something besides Julian Strother. And that boils down to the best player on your team being the most comfortable in those situations that maybe anybody has ever been in NBA basketball. Like, that guy does not get rattled by shit going down the, he knows what to do, he knows what, it may not completely get executed, but it actually sort of reminds me of, like, those Sackick, Forsberg,

[00:54:14] Avs teams. Like, they'd be getting, or like, down or whatever, or like, anytime they came on the ice, you felt like it was going to get executed and they were probably going to score a goal. That's sort of what Jokic feels like right now. It's almost inevitability. So, we haven't really probably showered enough

[00:54:44] praise on him in this podcast, despite us, every conversation sort of revolving around him, but like, this season has been unbelievable and I really hope that if we get to the two seed, he ends up winning the MVP. Because this is a historic, just overall NBA season ever. Like, nothing has really been done like this before, so I, I hope he gets recognized for it. Yeah,

[00:55:14] yeah, I hope he doesn't, because as Jokic said, when I don't win MVP, we win championship. Well, I want him to win them all. The old triple crown out there. The elusive triple crown. Yeah, I mean, he's pretty unreal. No. Alright, I think that's where we are. Go Nuggets. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Give us five stars. Ryan,

[00:55:44] anything else to add on here at the air? Nah, I got nothing. Alright, then. Go USA hockey. Go, I think we're going to get dog walk. Yeah, but. Yeah, go USA hockey. It doesn't mean we they were booing the national anthem in Canada today. I think we should start doing that in the States. No, I was inspired.

[00:56:14] Yeah, I wasn't upset. Yeah, it makes sense to me. Alright, well, we will talk to you next week, and we hope you will tell a friend to tell a friend as we get into this stretch run of the nuggets and avs season. It's the good teams are playing in Colorado, so you gotta get on the local podcast circuit. Now's the time to get in there and get some joy in your ears as you

[00:56:44] get to hear about these wonderful avs and nuggets victories. We'll talk to you next week. Bye. Lucifer Brothers is a Crab Shell Media podcast. questions Yes.