S7E8: Seeing The World Through Afro-Latinx Eyes with Dash Harris Machado

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[00:02:25] You're listening to That's What She Did Podcast. I'm your host Tangia Renee.

[00:02:30] That's what She Did Podcast is a show about the women leaders, innovators and rebels you probably

[00:02:35] don't already know and I'm crazy excited to have you here because this is season seven,

[00:02:40] The Movement Makers Edition. All season long we're bringing you incredible impactful women

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[00:03:18] and let's get started. Hey friends it's me Tangia Renee dropping in with a quick reminder.

[00:03:28] Season seven is almost coming to a close we only have two episodes and I've enjoyed it so much

[00:03:34] I hope you have as well but that means that we are getting ready to start production for

[00:03:39] season eight of the show. Yes season eight I can hardly believe it it's got to be some

[00:03:43] kind of milestone but every season I love to come to you for help because I need to know who we

[00:03:50] should be talking to on the show so the theme for next season is she knows money. We're talking to

[00:03:57] women of color across the globe who know all aspects of money that means that we will be

[00:04:04] talking about how to get money what to do with that money when you get that money

[00:04:09] and how to get more of it. The entire season is geared towards building generational wealth

[00:04:15] so we need to know who to talk to if you or someone you know is an expert on making money

[00:04:22] getting more money and building generational wealth then we want to know about it. Send your

[00:04:27] pitch to that'swhatshedidpodcast at gmail.com and if we have a slot for you on the show

[00:04:31] we'll let you know and we will reach out and set that up. Now I want to introduce you

[00:04:36] to this week's guest Dash Harris Machado. She's a multimedia producer, doula consultant and

[00:04:44] entrepreneur based in Panama. She's the co-founder of Afro Latinx Travel and the producer of Negro,

[00:04:51] a docu series about Latino identity exploring Afro diasporic and black identity in historical

[00:04:58] and present day class race and color complex among Latinx's. She's also co-producer of two

[00:05:05] podcasts, Cumbia Afro Diastories and Radio Caña Negra. She also offers trainings workshops coaching

[00:05:14] on dismantling anti-blackness in Latinx communities. I love talking to Dash on the show and she was

[00:05:22] maybe the guest I was most excited to speak to. We had an interesting conversation about the

[00:05:27] word Latina that I think we should all be thinking about so let's get to it. Welcome back to

[00:05:37] That's What She Did podcast. I'm so so thrilled to introduce you all to Dash Harris Machado. She is

[00:05:43] the co-founder of Afro Latino Travel among other things. She's an award-winning journalist, a

[00:05:50] podcaster and activist, a docu series producer, so so many things and I doubt we're gonna have time

[00:05:58] to get into all of that today but nonetheless I'm so happy to have you here with us today

[00:06:03] Dash thanks so much for making time. Thank you for inviting me but I think we will get to everything

[00:06:09] I do because it's all connected. Okay, good. Everything is if it informs one another.

[00:06:14] Okay, perfect. That's always great. Perfect. So this season as you know we are have the pleasure

[00:06:22] of bringing women on the show who are creating movements in some form or another across the

[00:06:31] globe and I've been following Afro Latino travel on Instagram for a little while now. I don't recall

[00:06:38] how it came to my attention. It might have been a listener so I crowdsource guests quite often

[00:06:44] and usually listeners will tag me like on Instagram maybe like you should follow this person

[00:06:49] and so I'm pretty sure that's how I became aware of Afro Latino travel and was just really

[00:06:55] interested in the idea of combining one's love for travel with learning about the diaspora

[00:07:04] and all that that entails. So I'd love to hear where the idea for Afro Latino travel came from

[00:07:11] and what was sort of the process or catalyst moment for co-founding it?

[00:07:18] I don't know if there was one particular moment. I think more so for Afro Latino travel.

[00:07:27] It was that I wanted to you know the saying I could show you better than I could tell you right

[00:07:34] well heard that saying at least you know in our communities right I could show you better

[00:07:39] than I can tell you as it related to Afro descendant and Black people within the Latin

[00:07:46] American and Caribbean region. Afro Latino travel came about after starting my Daki series

[00:07:52] Negro. Daki series about Latinx identity which is a little over 10 years old by now and so that

[00:07:59] series centers Black people in Latin America. It talks about the colonial heritage and foundations

[00:08:07] of the racial hierarchy that is in the region, racial politics, the pigmentopathy

[00:08:15] and the history of the African diaspora and contemporary lives of Black people in Latin America

[00:08:21] and I made a bunch of connections, lifelong friends, colleagues, teammates, collaborators,

[00:08:27] co-conspirators that I have kept in touch till today 10 years later and so in traveling throughout

[00:08:34] these different countries the first few countries that I went to when I embarked on my Daki series

[00:08:39] were the countries with the highest percentage of Afro descendants which so I went to Colombia first

[00:08:46] I went to Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico. I didn't go to Cuba until way later because it was just

[00:08:53] it was a little bit harder 10 years ago. I mean people still went and it was possible it was

[00:08:58] just a little bit harder or challenging and so throughout my travels and I'm Panamanian

[00:09:04] U.S. I live in Panama my parents my both of my parents are Panamanian both of them are Black

[00:09:08] Panamanian I grew up with a very strong foundation in my Blackness particularly from my mother my

[00:09:16] mother was very adamant about us knowing about our history and being able to stand on our two feet

[00:09:22] as Black people in this world and being our full selves and so when I decided to

[00:09:29] I was working in mainstream news I was working at one of the media corporations and

[00:09:36] I started the Daki series because it was something that I had wanted to do for

[00:09:40] a long time since I was a kid and so the first place that I went to before I decided

[00:09:48] to do the Daki series was actually a vacation. Hello girl shrimp me and my best friend we went

[00:09:54] to Brazil and I because I worked in news because I worked the media and just I just always had the

[00:09:59] habit of carrying around a video camera that was before the phones had all the video and all

[00:10:04] the capabilities so I had my little mini camera and I remember Black Brazilian man engaging us

[00:10:09] in the street about race politics in Brazil and I thought that was very interesting and

[00:10:13] very strange because it was carnival like it's carnival why why like everybody's getting lit

[00:10:18] everybody's turning up like why are we talking about this right now right although my my I and

[00:10:24] my friend were game for it like that's fine we can talk about it but I noted that it was just so

[00:10:30] important for him to talk to us about it in that moment that I'm like wow okay things that I have

[00:10:35] always felt and thought and talked about other people are feeling and talking about as well

[00:10:40] whether in the US or outside of the US and so he was our he was my first interview where he

[00:10:45] was impromptu and he was saying how he identified or he was proud that Obama was the president of

[00:10:52] the United States and he said that he doesn't think that they that he would see a black president

[00:10:58] in Brazil in his lifetime and so all of the the problematics of Obama aside because that's a

[00:11:04] whole nother podcast sure he was speaking to the symbolism of a black person in an authority

[00:11:10] or sort of authoritative position and he said that he just doesn't see that happening in Brazil

[00:11:17] and so I edited that first video and I decided to go and interview black people in other countries

[00:11:23] that's simply what it was I had already I my family maintains ties to Panama my mother's

[00:11:29] entire family still lives here my father too and so I was always going back and forth to Panama

[00:11:36] again I live here this is the second time I'm living here as an adult and so when I went to places like

[00:11:42] Colombia and and I was seeking out the neighborhoods the regions the areas where black people live

[00:11:49] predominantly for example when I went to Catahena I wanted to go to the self-emancipated African

[00:11:57] town Afro-descendant town of San Basilio de Palenque and I would ask people in Catahena what are

[00:12:02] the instructions to get to the town because I need to get there so directions that everybody was like

[00:12:10] everybody everybody every person that I asked about it said ooh why do you want to go there

[00:12:17] ooh it's dangerous ooh it's crime-infested being a black person I already knew these were

[00:12:23] code words for there's too many blacks over there I already knew that very intimately because

[00:12:29] these are the same words and terms that people say about my parents hometown in Panama and so I

[00:12:36] already knew what that was and so I ended up you know getting on a bus um I was on I was actually

[00:12:43] with my best friend again she's been with me throughout my travels and I got on the bus

[00:12:49] that they said they sent me to take this bus I got on it and I'm like okay that's great so

[00:12:55] this bus goes to San Basilio de Palenque but I don't know what to do once we get off the bus because

[00:12:59] my my intimate knowledge of Latin America is the bus doesn't take you exactly to where you need to go

[00:13:07] the vicinity right right and so I'm like I need to know the steps and also I'm a Virgo so I'm like

[00:13:12] I need to know the steps before then you know and so what I did and this is exactly how it

[00:13:17] happened I saw a black woman on the bus and I went next to her and I said excuse me hi

[00:13:24] introduce myself I'm like hey so we want to go to this town can you tell us how to get there

[00:13:29] and she was like yeah my my cousin is a tour guide like let me call him set it up because

[00:13:34] black women resolve things like that's just the bottom line and so I already knew by going and asking

[00:13:40] her that I was gonna get I was gonna achieve my goal because it's it's always that humanity

[00:13:46] and that community and that kinship and that assistance and love so anyway I was like long

[00:13:52] story short but I'm making the story long but long story short I went to these various places

[00:13:57] in Latin America every single time I needed directions to get to these black areas it was

[00:14:02] met with these very anti-black beliefs specifically in Colombia people would say oh you want to go

[00:14:09] there I'm like do you know what people say about Colombia as a whole and here you are

[00:14:14] punching down right and so I'm like yeah okay so so with the the various connections

[00:14:22] that I made and the the things that I observed the practices and the beliefs rooted in anti-blackness

[00:14:28] I said okay black folks everywhere have stories to tell we have history to share we are everything

[00:14:38] right and so I'm like it would be great to get more to get black people to these black areas

[00:14:44] just and whatever that means to turn up to have fun to see other black people

[00:14:51] it could be to learn the history whatever it is and that's why that's the place that I started from

[00:14:57] yes absolutely I am very much history I love history I love learning about it I love sharing

[00:15:02] about it I love the cultural aspects all of that is amazing and sometimes you just want to hang out

[00:15:08] with your people you know what I'm saying like sometimes you just want to chill right and so

[00:15:13] I understand that as well whether it's we do a presentation on the history of the drum for example

[00:15:21] the history of the the Bata drum in Cuba that's great and also the fellow it's the fellowship

[00:15:26] that the afro-descendants have we have with one another and so next my docu series led me into

[00:15:34] afro-lethium next travel because I tapped into that same network of people that I interviewed

[00:15:40] that I kept in contact with and some of them became guides on the tourism that we that we were doing

[00:15:46] pre-pandemic and these are people who are traditionally left out of the tourism sector

[00:15:51] in their countries the major reason being that the country is anti-black it's racist and all

[00:15:57] of any type of opportunity that makes a decent amount of money is not reserved for black people

[00:16:05] period and so who better to tell you about their country and their customs and their language and

[00:16:11] whatever culture than people who live it because you're not going to go to let's say you go to the

[00:16:16] states or really anywhere actually anywhere to learn about culture and you're going to learn it

[00:16:21] from a white person that just doesn't it just does it too it's not adding up right it's two

[00:16:28] plus I don't know what number because it's not adding up and so for too too often when people travel

[00:16:36] and that's anyone from the states from the from Europe it's often the whitest person representing

[00:16:42] the country yeah that's just what they choose it's not a coincidence we know it's not a coincidence

[00:16:48] they have an agenda and a face to sell right and so black people only come into play in the

[00:16:54] tourism sectors in Latin America for folkloric stuff for food for those prescribed roles of blackness

[00:17:00] and never anything beyond that black people are not represented as multi-dimensional right as

[00:17:06] multifaceted and the thing is I said this I have I say this often I did not learn about most of

[00:17:14] the anti-black stereotypes and stigmas until I reached into adulthood till I went to or

[00:17:22] I guess maybe the later years of high school and college that those type of stereotypes like

[00:17:27] black people can't swim I was like I didn't know I didn't know that I didn't know of them I didn't

[00:17:32] hear it everyone that every black person that I know can swim yeah it's not to say that it's

[00:17:37] not to essentialize blackness either it's to show that there are different experiences various

[00:17:42] experiences of blackness throughout the globe and so with people folklorizing black people

[00:17:50] that was very foreign to me because like I said I had a very conscientious a conscious

[00:17:56] upbringing specifically for my mom my mom was very adamant and so I wanted to show people

[00:18:03] my normal I wanted to show people my norm is black people doing whatever whatever fill in the

[00:18:09] blank right um whatever it is we're there and when we talk about Latinos in the US again

[00:18:17] my norm are Latin Americans that are black period so when people were confused growing up when

[00:18:23] people were confused oh you speak Spanish all your parents are from Panama you could see the

[00:18:29] the wheels turning and people to understand and I didn't feel that I got tired of explaining

[00:18:35] myself explaining my existence and so anyway all of that to say negative documentaries

[00:18:42] about Latinx identity and Afro-Latinx travel they are linked in many ways they one led to the other

[00:18:49] and all of that at its center it was in centering black people and our experiences

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[00:20:34] and hit that discount code smooches I feel like we need that in the in the united states as well I

[00:20:45] mean I can't you know it makes me think of Louisiana and specifically norlands and my

[00:20:55] husband and I went to norlands for my birthday one year like earlier in our marriage so it was like

[00:21:01] not long after I had graduated from college and at that point I was aware of anti-blackness but

[00:21:10] not at the level I am now I'm mixed I'm black and Latina and so I was always aware of it right

[00:21:16] on a certain level but have probably be the level of education or the language around it

[00:21:21] that I have now we went to norlands and we wanted to do a history tour of the city and we could not

[00:21:28] find a black tour guide there just weren't any it was all white guy literally white guys and we thought

[00:21:36] that was weird but didn't really give it that much thought we were just like well okay I guess

[00:21:42] we'll do this tour and then they do the plantation tour is down there and we were looking at some

[00:21:48] of the pamphlets and they were characterizing the plantation tours is like come see the beautiful

[00:21:54] grounds and we were like this is these were slaveholders why what's beautiful about that

[00:22:00] and there were no tours that we could find anyway at that time this was several years ago that were

[00:22:06] about the actual history about what actually happened in this region and on these properties

[00:22:12] and we were just like how no we ain't going to no plantation so they can talk to us about

[00:22:20] carriages and trees and like silverware or whatever when we know that probably under in that shed

[00:22:26] over there they were killing people it was just outrageous to me and so and it's still I think

[00:22:32] there's probably more consciousness happening but I don't think it's I don't think it's that

[00:22:37] common honestly yeah it's it's basically take a tour of a concentration camp

[00:22:44] and I don't need to see a concentration camp I don't need to be in these spaces

[00:22:49] I think now you said you you went a few years back there's more now as people start to speak up

[00:22:56] louder right because I feel that black people have been in these spaces they just were not

[00:23:02] they were stifled and muffled and hidden right because my co-founder Javier Wallace he is from

[00:23:08] Austin he's he's Panamanian US and he gives black Austin tours and so he's been doing a damn thing

[00:23:14] very proud of him he's great his family has lived in the Austin area for hundreds of years

[00:23:20] he was part of Africans that were trafficked into Texas through Mexico and his mother's

[00:23:26] family is from the Freedman's colony and so he has hundreds of years of knowledge and family ties

[00:23:33] to the area and it's amazing that he gets he's telling his history you're talking about history

[00:23:38] he's also talking about his family history and I think that is extremely important

[00:23:43] that people speak from their own experiences from their own histories and so that's why

[00:23:50] it's important that we have when you go to any of these countries that is actual black people

[00:23:56] from there that live there that can tell you what goes on what doesn't go on so on and so forth

[00:24:02] and so yeah I think you said something interesting where you said that you're black and latina

[00:24:08] and I often say to people you said a race and you said a geographic

[00:24:14] yes I know yes I struggle with these curves

[00:24:21] but I do this for a living that's this is exactly what I do for a living because we give workshops

[00:24:26] on exactly this we give workshops on history Javier and I give workshops on his black history

[00:24:32] and contemporary life in the Americas and then also with my collective that Yocanya Negra

[00:24:37] which is comprised of us it's three women who are Central American Black Central Americans

[00:24:42] and we also give workshops on anti-blackness among Latinx people and so when people say yeah

[00:24:49] I'm black and latina I'm like so do you mean that you're you're black and then the Latin American

[00:24:54] parent is non-black so then and then it's like the breaking it down yeah like okay so you meant

[00:25:00] to say or rather no you don't do it like that we say so isn't that you have one parent who

[00:25:06] an example you have one parent who is African-American from the US and you have a parent who

[00:25:12] is white mestizo or indigenous descended from Latin America and we just go through the steps of that

[00:25:17] because it's always this and I understand I understand there are certain habits that

[00:25:23] that are just normalized right and so so when people say like for example

[00:25:28] in one of the people I interviewed from my docuseries his mom is Chilean she's from Chile

[00:25:33] she's a white woman uh and her his dad is I believe a mixed-race Mexican person I never met

[00:25:40] his dad I met his mom and he was telling me that when he was little and his mom used to push him

[00:25:45] in the shoulder he has today he has an afro he has a big curly hair and people would say oh is the

[00:25:53] it's his dad black because he's the white woman pushing this I guess brown baby and she would say

[00:26:00] no he's Mexican and he told me that story and I'm like she didn't answer the question

[00:26:05] mm-hmm you know what I'm saying she is saying the country he's descended from right

[00:26:13] and the thing is his name is Ivan he's in the docuseries and we were still friends till this

[00:26:18] till this day and he was he got put in my docuseries accidentally because I was in Canada I was in

[00:26:24] Toronto for a film festival and I went to his restaurant he was a restaurant myself in Toronto

[00:26:29] which is amazing shout out to my son and so he has this big curly hair right and he said we met

[00:26:37] and he's like yeah I'm Mexican and I'm like okay are you afro-mexican and he paused and

[00:26:47] it was great because he met that question with curiosity and that's something that encouraged

[00:26:52] people to do like with any type of emotion and I saw this as a quote on Twitter actually

[00:26:59] meet your emotions with curiosity rather than pathologizing them and so when I asked him he

[00:27:06] he paused and he tilted his head and he was like hmm maybe my grandma is from Oaxaca

[00:27:12] and she had an afro it's just that in his family his father's side of the family they never spoke

[00:27:17] about anything to do with blackness because I'm not going to say they didn't speak about race

[00:27:21] because they did you don't have to specifically say I am speaking about race to speak about race

[00:27:26] you know what I'm saying there's been many ways to speak about race and many ways you can speak

[00:27:30] about race without speaking about it at all and so he actually said that was the first time he

[00:27:36] reflected on that and so right now he now goes to a Jamaican woman woman that does his hair

[00:27:43] because he likes to keep it in an afro he grew it out and has an afro and he's like wow now

[00:27:47] he's investigating his family history and all of that and so it's just one question

[00:27:52] that prompted him to study his family history and that's what we like to do

[00:27:56] yeah no I appreciate the conversation I say that because it's the path of least resistance

[00:28:02] on that it's that's the truth I it's like this thing where you don't want to go through

[00:28:10] yeah I got your identity every single time right

[00:28:15] what does it mean right I'm a peach whatever you want

[00:28:20] and I find that the alternative to that that people actually understand and I would never

[00:28:26] refer to myself this way but I see or I hear people saying this is they don't want to go into

[00:28:33] the explanation they're like oh I'm a mutt and I'm like I'm not referring to myself in that way it

[00:28:39] feels so disrespectful as a dog yes and I'm like don't ever don't ever and so I'm like yeah I'm mixed

[00:28:49] and then I feel like I have to qualify that right for the benefit of the other person so I'm mixed

[00:28:55] I'm black I'm Latina because they understand I guess in in a box what each of those terms mean but

[00:29:02] not the full brand of what that actually means so I think it's an important conversation so I

[00:29:09] appreciate that you you called that out but but yes I hear you it's those those things together

[00:29:19] yeah like you're saying you're going to qualify because people will say Afro Latino right okay

[00:29:23] that's cool and that's fine and then say a non-black Latino is just Latino right and I'm like

[00:29:29] say the race of the other if you're gonna say I'm Afro Latina say the race of the white one

[00:29:33] say white Latina say it because I do right like when I'm going through day to day life in Latin

[00:29:40] America we use these words we we talk about race we say it it's normalized but people have this idea

[00:29:45] and yes it's been a lie peddled by actual Latin Americans but also it shows how very little

[00:29:51] the US knows and cares to know about Latin America and this is you know this is from hundreds

[00:29:57] of years and so the the easiest way to to like you said put people in a box is to oversimplify

[00:30:06] what actually happens and so with these really bizarre ideas of Latin America I'm always there

[00:30:13] to be the thorn in someone's side and then say no no no finish your sentence no no no what does

[00:30:18] that mean wait I have questions wait explain this further yes yes I appreciate it I think it needs to

[00:30:27] happen right we so often don't question the words that we use we're just like we're just walking

[00:30:34] around saying these things without any understanding what does that actually mean and what is the

[00:30:39] impact of that history and those words where did they come from so I think it's really important

[00:30:44] when you all founded Afro-Latino travel did you get pushback around this idea of we're gonna

[00:30:53] organize these groups to go into these sort of quote-unquote forgotten places or overlooked

[00:30:58] places or ignored places and bring that history forward no not really we since the beginning

[00:31:07] we have always had positives in commentary around our tours I mean the tours themselves

[00:31:15] the content also the content that we post on our social media and we have we there's always going to be

[00:31:23] the one or two or ten anti-black scumbags that say whatever they're saying but I don't really care

[00:31:29] about that because we've been listening to their opinions for the past 500 years so we don't make

[00:31:37] any space for anti-blackness or any type of hegemonic points of views we center blackness

[00:31:44] and that's that if you don't like it which I'm sure a lot of people don't like it

[00:31:49] there are millions of accounts to follow there are thousands of tour companies to go to

[00:31:56] and you have your choice of the marketplace and we've had people who have requested for example

[00:32:01] a tour in Cuba and they'll say I want the Afro-Cuba tour but I don't want to learn anything

[00:32:07] about the religion the Yoruba religion or some people know it as santeria we don't want

[00:32:12] to know anything about we don't want to know anything any ritualistic information that's how

[00:32:18] they said it which I was like huh because I'm like everything is a ritual like brushing your teeth

[00:32:21] is a ritual but anyway I don't have that kind of time on an email so I was like girl let me tell you

[00:32:27] something you cannot understand afro-cuban history without understanding the spiritual

[00:32:33] that's just what it is if you would like a tour with us there will be aspects of

[00:32:38] spirituality and if you don't want to see it there are a ton of other tour companies that you

[00:32:46] can utilize but it's not going to be us we're not compromising on that so see you later

[00:32:54] I may need your money but I don't want your money we're not we're not compromising on our goals

[00:33:00] and our mission and really in representing our own selves because when we're talking about

[00:33:07] black history anywhere we are talking about ourselves it's not something we talk about 500

[00:33:13] years or in the past the past is now history is now everything that we do comes from a root

[00:33:19] comes from a norm or a custom that was established and so I am I am standing in

[00:33:27] what I want the world to be and I think it's very you know it's cliche right but if I am claiming

[00:33:34] or purporting to center of blackness I am not going to waver at any point in time I don't care

[00:33:40] if you're waving five trillion dollars in my face because what and this is for my church days

[00:33:46] what prophet a man to inherit the earth I pushed that part of my life down I said

[00:33:51] but I still remember I still remember certain things from Sunday school right if I'm not doing

[00:33:58] right by my communities that is the ultimate fail for me I'm not looking for approval from whitey

[00:34:06] because that is exactly the approval that keeps us subjugated so nah I'm you can get afro keep

[00:34:12] in tour without the spirituality portion but it's not going to be what I for let me next travel

[00:34:16] so I'll see you later girl no hard feelings I'll catch your pitches on instagram right but she came

[00:34:22] back and she said no no no okay we'll take the tour as is and let me tell you something she went with

[00:34:27] family members and it was Javier actually and my husband who did the tour I wasn't in Cuba at that

[00:34:33] point so they did the tour and they said that that group stayed over like the tour ended let's say

[00:34:39] ended at 3 p.m that group stayed until 5 p.m but their jaws were on the floor about this asking

[00:34:47] questions about the spirituality aspect the same thing that they wanted us to cut out they were

[00:34:52] the ones that were extremely interested in it and I'm like and so I think it's extremely important

[00:34:58] to stick to your guns extremely important to stand in integrity to stand in your mission to

[00:35:02] stand in your goals especially as it relates to to black folks that that's what we that's

[00:35:08] what we owe to ourselves so yeah absolutely you said that all your work is connected clearly

[00:35:16] that is I think that that comes through very clear so with all of the things that you're working on to

[00:35:22] dismantle anti-blackness what is the legacy that you hope to leave behind that's a good question

[00:35:32] obviously I it's it's that I am simply adding to the body of work I am just another iteration

[00:35:40] I am not the end all be all or no at all I often say to people you don't have to listen to me

[00:35:46] because there are millions of other people who are saying the same thing that I'm saying

[00:35:51] who have been saying the same thing I've been saying I'm like in in comparison I am an embryo

[00:35:58] I am a fetus I'm a zygote in all of this I am a baby because we have people who came before us

[00:36:07] that was that we're doing this work and so I think it's in continuing that African African

[00:36:14] deity afro descendants cultural manifestations and really I think the biggest part of any of

[00:36:22] the work that I do that more and more comes to the forefront is in humanizing humanizing afro

[00:36:29] descendant people because when we talk about blackness we're not just talking about race we're

[00:36:33] talking about a social categorization a social condition that has material realities tied to

[00:36:41] blackness and so I'm actually talking about this a lot this week about the habit the norm

[00:36:49] to humanize white people and those approximating whiteness in every way shape and form

[00:36:55] oh they made a mistake all they didn't know all give them another chance all they're just a boy

[00:37:02] right all they were having a bad day right which on one hand that is humanity right we are not

[00:37:10] perfect we have flaws we have challenges we have the obstacles so on and so forth and so humanity

[00:37:18] by and large in the white imagination has only been extended to white people and the people who

[00:37:24] can closely approximate it everyone else and specifically black people and like I said I speak

[00:37:31] specifically to anti-blackness because everything whiteness has built itself on is rooted in

[00:37:36] anti-blackness and that's what I have to be specific when I name it and so anything that

[00:37:42] has to do with blackness is dehumanized is degraded every negative adjective you could

[00:37:47] ever think is accorded to black people and afro descendants and Africans so on and so forth and

[00:37:54] so for me the legacy is continuing that human the human project as it relates to black folks

[00:38:02] and this was said actually by more than a few people that I interviewed in my docu series

[00:38:08] the aspect of humanity one of the professors that I interviewed black afro columbian the

[00:38:14] idea of afro columbian is a political notion because everything to do with afro or black in columbia

[00:38:20] has to do with every negative adjective black means theft black means and he went on and on

[00:38:27] I'm not going to repeat the words because I don't think there's any benefit in repeating these

[00:38:31] insults that we hear on the daily and in understanding that words matter and so we don't

[00:38:36] always have to keep repeating it because we understand what it is and so he said what

[00:38:41] is this work if what is this work of identity if not reconstructing and reimagining humanity

[00:38:48] and that is I always try to keep that at the forefront of my mind when I tell certain well

[00:38:55] everything and all the histories that I share it's adding dimension for two and four black folks

[00:39:03] that people in the mainstream may not see no or care to know and my thing is I'm not trying to

[00:39:13] convince anyone of black people's humanity that's not my job because when you dehumanize others

[00:39:20] you dehumanize yourself my job is just to facilitate amplify boost our histories in any way shape

[00:39:29] or form that I can using the access that I have using whatever networks I have I am just a vehicle

[00:39:36] and I keep that very centered I am not the expert of x y if you want to call me an expert that's your

[00:39:43] problem but I know what I know and I don't know what I don't know right and so I think the legacy

[00:39:48] is always in forging toward black liberation and to me liberation and freedom means me and other

[00:39:57] people like me after the sun is why people can be free to be their full whole self without threat of

[00:40:05] danger or violence or a threat to their safety and we are still not there yet and so I would love

[00:40:15] to think and to imagine that it could be possible in my lifetime but I'm also a Virgo like I mentioned

[00:40:22] and I'm also cynical and I'm also realistic and so I am just another another student another

[00:40:30] facilitator in this project of humanity and so I don't I guess that is the legacy that I want to

[00:40:37] continue on because it had that that legacy had already been established

[00:40:42] do you think of your work specifically with Afro Latino travel as a movement maybe perhaps

[00:40:51] I think it's like I mentioned I think it adds to the body of work

[00:40:56] ongoing work and yeah I think wherever you have Afro-descendant people and thinking about the

[00:41:05] word movement we are a very nomadic migratory peoples whether that is forced in traffic

[00:41:15] right whether that is looking for opportunities to better our material conditions whether it's

[00:41:22] being in contact with other Afro diasporians we've always been a movement and so I would say yeah

[00:41:31] it's part of the larger movement of Afro-descendant Afro-descendant existence right quite simply

[00:41:41] and yeah I guess that's a short answer it's part of the movement it's not the movement

[00:41:47] sure I would be extremely arrogant me to say that right like like who are you right

[00:41:55] but it's definitely part of the larger Afro-descendant movements which are plural right

[00:42:01] now I think that's fair I think it's very accurate when I again when I first learned about

[00:42:07] Afro-lethion travel and I was like what is this thing and I started looking at it I went to the

[00:42:12] website went to all the different connected profiles and and looked at everything there's a lot going

[00:42:20] on. Mad links, yes lots of links I was like oh this is this is a movement this is like part

[00:42:27] of the whole the larger whole right and I loved it because I it's unique in its approach I think

[00:42:36] to a lot of other ways of approaching specifically anti-blackness work and I think it's a thing that

[00:42:42] people don't think of as work you hear travel you think this is vacation yeah I'm gonna go sit

[00:42:49] somewhere on a beach with you know an umbrella in my drink and not do anything that hurts my brain

[00:42:57] yeah and see that's the thing that's exact that's the thing right because we understand people

[00:43:02] want to get some sun to me sun is normal for me like it's sunny year round in Panama they call

[00:43:08] oh no that's that's Guatemala the land of eternal summer let me not in front because my colleague

[00:43:13] Evelyn she's from Guatemala and I'm like let me not infringe on her little her country saying

[00:43:18] but we understand people want to take a break when to take a load off whatever the case is and

[00:43:24] I think it's important when people travel to prioritize people that look like them

[00:43:31] and maybe they don't even look like you right because we have a range of looks right but to

[00:43:36] prioritize afro-dispendence in wherever whatever country they go to because I often say to people

[00:43:44] when you go on vacation look at who is laboring and look at who is leisureing because those

[00:43:50] that racial divide is very stark and very visible you will see who are the people cleaning who are

[00:43:56] taking out the trash and who are the people that are the front facing sitting in the air conditioned

[00:44:01] offices right and so at this time we are not doing any in-person trips we are building up our

[00:44:09] virtual portion and that's what we're concentrating on right now in the future when it is safe to

[00:44:17] do so we will reconsider in-person tours I know that in some instances have yet he does his

[00:44:24] black awesome tours he can social distance outside and you know so on and so forth but

[00:44:29] our community the communities that we work with are hardest hit by COVID because they're talking about

[00:44:33] black communities that are intentionally marginalized and intentionally left without clinics without

[00:44:39] health centers there are certain instances where people may have to choose between buying soap

[00:44:46] and paying a bill there are communities that don't have running water and we know that black

[00:44:51] communities are seldom high on the priority list of the states and so we actually are not

[00:45:00] we're discouraging people from traveling in this moment if it's a necessity because life happens

[00:45:06] people travel for certain family obligations right just to be as safe as possible because

[00:45:11] if for us it's not it's more so the health and safety of those communities that we are in community

[00:45:23] with right I cannot say I cannot sit here and be like well yeah we're gonna have a trip this month

[00:45:30] knowing full well that black folks for example in Panama are they're they're

[00:45:38] they're going to be the last to get the vaccine right and we know that the vaccine

[00:45:43] hasn't been dispersed globally in any type of equitable fashion and so I would be the biggest

[00:45:50] immigrant to sit here and be like yeah we're gonna have a group trip this year absolutely not

[00:45:55] absolutely not and it's been difficult to navigate because the people that we work with

[00:45:59] and in many of these Latin American countries tourism is a huge portion of their GDP and

[00:46:04] it is a way that people make money so we have been pivoting doing virtual classes doing mutual aid

[00:46:10] with organizations that we work with and so and so for the travel piece I am still gonna stick with

[00:46:18] only essential travel that's really all I have to say about that right because everyone does what

[00:46:22] they want right we're all we all make our decisions everyone makes your decision and

[00:46:28] but in keeping in mind the most vulnerable of us the essential workers right and we see it in the

[00:46:35] US as well essential workers those who cannot stay home or social distance are usually afro-descendant

[00:46:41] people we know that we understand that and so it's in also understanding that those essential

[00:46:48] workers in the US who tend to be by and large afro-descendant and black people

[00:46:52] that is the same formula that you have throughout Latin America and the Caribbean

[00:46:56] like they're it's a consistent thread because of white pathology if anything it is consistent

[00:47:03] yes it is and you're walking the talk right now with so makes things difficult but

[00:47:12] sounds like you're figuring out a way to navigate that right and I think that's the best that we

[00:47:17] I think that's what we do right as black folks we pivot all the time we reinvent things we are

[00:47:23] re-imagined things we create new things and because we've always had we've had to do that

[00:47:28] too yep great agreed well dash thank you so much for joining us on the show today I know you have

[00:47:36] a super busy schedule and you made time for us so thank you from the bottom of my heart

[00:47:42] right look I make time for black folks that's just like if I can't make time for black folks who am I

[00:47:47] gonna make time for like what am I doing with this right yeah I hear you I hear you

[00:47:56] for inviting me on yeah I'm always here to fellowship with my my community so

[00:48:03] definitely my pleasure and folks you know how we do every episode we link in the show notes

[00:48:10] to our guest dash what is the best place for our listeners to check out to connect more with you

[00:48:17] and your work and everything that you are involved in so here's the so many links

[00:48:24] because we just have so many resources yes people really need to check it out but the thing is

[00:48:28] all of the links are always connected so when you get to one you'll see the other so

[00:48:32] to follow us on social media I am diaspora dash or diaspora dash on instagram afro-latino travel

[00:48:41] our website is afro-latinx travel I am also part of the collective value of canya negra or radio

[00:48:47] canya negra and you will see that also on my personal page any really like if you google dash

[00:48:54] harris the thing is there's a man that has that name and he's a basketball player he had his

[00:49:00] name is dash harris so if you like search for me it's either gonna be him or it's not him or it's

[00:49:05] gonna be the other one and so you can check out check check us out on afro-latinx travel

[00:49:11] diaspora dash on instagram afro-latinx travel on twitter we on facebook we're not on tiktok

[00:49:18] tiktok is too chaotic for me like I have a little account and I always go in there to

[00:49:23] check things out and I run screaming out of tiktok because it's so freaking chaotic extra

[00:49:28] there's like all the extra people are on tiktok it's sensory overload maybe because I'm like

[00:49:34] nearing a geriatric millennial and I just don't know how to function but we have a ton of workshops

[00:49:40] and events that we do with um radio canya negra with afro-latinx travel we have summer courses

[00:49:46] history courses and so any of those names that I mentioned follow one and you'll see the

[00:49:53] trail of crumbs the bird crumbs to the next one and also check out black austin tours and it's exactly

[00:49:58] like that and afro resistance afro resistance that is another organization that we are family with

[00:50:06] that speaks to live black lives lived black experiences in the america is the biggest one

[00:50:12] being black migration and immigration and also bronx rebirth which is the organization for

[00:50:18] another one of the machet data is evalence organization which they give they they collect

[00:50:25] donations of baby products whatever it is diapers milk formula and they distribute it in the

[00:50:31] bronx to parents who may need these basic supplies so yeah that told you about the links

[00:50:38] yes like on one of them and you'll find the rest so we will connect in the show notes to make

[00:50:44] it easy so that you're one click away and I encourage you all to do the learning do the work

[00:50:51] to do the learning wherever you are in the world we've been really grateful to have built a global

[00:50:57] audience so if you were listening to this from ira knowledge is power baby so learn some learn

[00:51:03] something new unlearned unlearned to relearned to learn thank you all so so much for showing up

[00:51:11] season after season week after week to listen to this show please continue to share that's how we

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