S7E10: BIPOC Podcast Creators with Tangia Renee and Maribel Quezada Smith

[00:00:00] Hey there, it's me again, Tangia Renee and I have a final quick reminder.

[00:00:09] The season 7 is now a wrap.

[00:00:12] Yep, this is it for now but don't worry, the show will be back late summer of this year

[00:00:18] 2022 with more brilliant women to teach and inspire us.

[00:00:24] We are heavy into prepping for season 8.

[00:00:27] The She Know's Money Season.

[00:00:29] We are going to have the opportunity to learn from money experts that are going to teach

[00:00:34] us all about getting money, keeping money and making that money work for us.

[00:00:39] The guest lineup is crazy good but I always reserve a few spots for our listener input.

[00:00:47] If you want to pitch yourself as a guest or someone you know does, send me an email so

[00:00:51] thats what she did podcast.com and let me know why you would be a great guest of the show.

[00:00:58] You can also email me with a guest suggestion.

[00:01:01] If there is someone you would love to hear on the show and they fit with our next season

[00:01:05] theme, drop me an email.

[00:01:09] Thank you again for being a listener and supporter of the show and for bearing with me through

[00:01:13] what was a challenging year.

[00:01:17] Now for the final episode of season 7 I have something different for you.

[00:01:22] Something I've never done on the show before.

[00:01:26] First time I'm going to be a guest on the podcast.

[00:01:30] Well not just me, I'll be joined by Marie-Velle Kizata Smith, an expert TV documentary and

[00:01:38] podcast producer.

[00:01:39] She's also my co-founder in creating BIPOC podcast creators of online community for BIPOC

[00:01:47] identify creators in the podcast space.

[00:01:51] BIPOC podcast creators is something we've been working on in the background for a while

[00:01:55] and we're finally ready to share it with everyone.

[00:01:59] This has been an undertaking of love but also one of purpose.

[00:02:03] We've both seen and experienced the challenges of being classified as put in quote minorities

[00:02:08] and creating in the podcast space.

[00:02:11] We are determined to make sure creators of color get a fair shake.

[00:02:17] We also recognize the importance of telling our own stories and controlling our own narratives.

[00:02:23] So today we're going to talk about why we believe BIPOC podcast creators is needed.

[00:02:30] Since recording of this episode and the official launch of the online community, BIPOC

[00:02:35] podcast creators has grown any balled.

[00:02:38] So after this, head over to BIPOCpodcastcreators.com to learn more.

[00:02:45] Thank you again from the bottom of my heart for your support of the show.

[00:02:49] Please keep sharing it and in the meantime,

[00:02:53] keep an ear out for season eight.

[00:02:55] It's going to be dope.

[00:02:57] I promise.

[00:02:58] Until next time, smooches.

[00:03:06] Welcome back everyone to another episode of season seven.

[00:03:11] That's right.

[00:03:12] Season seven of that's what she did podcast.

[00:03:15] Sorry.

[00:03:16] No, it's exciting.

[00:03:18] When I stop and give myself the time to think about it, I'm like, holy shit.

[00:03:22] This has been going on for seven whole seasons when a lot of podcasts don't even make it past

[00:03:27] the seventh episode.

[00:03:28] That's right folks.

[00:03:30] That is right.

[00:03:31] Congratulations, Tengia.

[00:03:32] I think this is awesome and I'm so proud of you.

[00:03:35] I'm so happy to be your friend.

[00:03:38] Thank you.

[00:03:39] I'm so happy we randomly met at a conference one day.

[00:03:43] Yeah.

[00:03:44] So we are, so the other voice you hear, Marivimk is at Smith, fellow podcaster but also a TV and

[00:03:54] podcast producer, deep roots in the industry, speaker, podcasting coach, mentor and consultant,

[00:04:03] all of the things.

[00:04:04] All of the things.

[00:04:05] Mom.

[00:04:06] Yeah.

[00:04:07] All kinds of things.

[00:04:09] Yes, involved in and like some really big podcast projects and doing a lot of things behind

[00:04:15] the scenes.

[00:04:16] And we are together trying to do a lot of things behind the scenes which is why we are

[00:04:21] here to create sort of a special episode that goes along with our theme.

[00:04:26] We're here to talk about by podcast creators which is a brand new group that Marie Bell

[00:04:33] and I just co-founded on Instagram and in Facebook to support creators in the podcast industry.

[00:04:42] So not just podcasters, not just hosts but editors, producers anywhere in the industry

[00:04:49] that you might fall as a create something that's participating in creating podcasts.

[00:04:55] We decided to create this support group for those of you who identify as somebody as part

[00:05:00] of the black indigenous or person of color community because we are part of that community

[00:05:06] and we were found ourselves coming up against a lot of the same barriers and challenges

[00:05:12] and having a hard time navigating them on our own.

[00:05:16] And as the old saying goes, if you want to go fast go alone but if you want to go far

[00:05:21] go together so we decided to create this group that just opened and it's growing really

[00:05:28] quickly.

[00:05:29] I think quicker than we initially thought, we thought oh they'll be like 10 people the

[00:05:33] first week and we're in the first week and there's maybe hundreds of people that you

[00:05:39] can do right now.

[00:05:40] At this point there are hundreds of people requesting to join the by podcast creators group

[00:05:45] on Facebook and I can't even know what to say.

[00:05:48] I'm honestly shocked through, excited.

[00:05:52] Someone told us to be prepared for that and I honestly didn't think that would happen

[00:05:56] because I tried to set myself up for success.

[00:06:00] I don't want to set my expectations to the point where I will be completely terribly disappointed.

[00:06:06] I liked a dream big but I also want to be realistic.

[00:06:11] So I was like oh there'll be a small little ramp up period and who knows, honestly who

[00:06:15] knows what could happen?

[00:06:17] People might love it, people might hate it but we've had really good support this week.

[00:06:24] It's been cool, it's been really honestly my hands hurt from clicking the accept button.

[00:06:32] So I'm a little bit behind on accepting everybody and I apologize for that we'll get to you

[00:06:37] as quickly as we can but it's exciting and honestly I hope this is just a taste of what's

[00:06:43] to come.

[00:06:44] Yes, agreed.

[00:06:47] I think it caught us both a little off guard.

[00:06:49] We were like yeah yeah I eventually it'll get there.

[00:06:53] I honestly thought like the first month would be like a trickle.

[00:06:59] You know, a few people here and we would ramp it up slowly and that was fine with me

[00:07:04] and I didn't expect to wake up this morning and look at you have all of these notifications

[00:07:10] and be like holy crap.

[00:07:12] When am I gonna yeah right?

[00:07:14] When am I gonna do this?

[00:07:15] Which is why Tengia and I have been doing our research for months now.

[00:07:19] We've been meeting weekly to discuss the strategy, the goals, everything that we're gonna

[00:07:24] do to support the folks that are going to be in this group because it's so important

[00:07:27] to us that we are able to be there but also have the energy and the resources.

[00:07:33] So we also have two other awesome women with us who are going to be part of the community

[00:07:41] management team I guess you call it community managers and they are Stefania FRX.

[00:07:48] I don't even know if that's how you pronounce it but I'm just saying FRX and Kimberly Ming.

[00:07:56] She goes by Kim also so both of those ladies I just want to shout out because they are

[00:08:02] part of the community building this with us and they're gonna be the community managers.

[00:08:07] So it is gonna be a little bit more manageable to have some extra help on you know at the beginning

[00:08:14] of this and at some point we're gonna obviously hopefully grow the team a little bit more.

[00:08:20] But for now that's who we are there are four of us and it's exciting and I can't wait

[00:08:27] to see where this goes.

[00:08:29] Yeah me too.

[00:08:32] It is exciting when I let myself think about it like that's the key when I let myself think

[00:08:36] about it because I'm so focused on like XYZ has to get done.

[00:08:43] But it is exciting let's talk about why we felt like there was a need in the podcast

[00:08:52] and community as a whole to create a space that specifically for creators who are part

[00:08:58] of the BIPOC community.

[00:08:59] Yes so and there are many reasons.

[00:09:02] Yeah so maybe we should narrow it down like I'll give my top reason and you can give

[00:09:05] your top reason so we don't bore your listeners.

[00:09:09] So I'll give you my quick reason.

[00:09:12] Hey friends it's me Tangea Renee with that's what she did podcasts and I am excited to

[00:09:18] introduce you to our episode sponsor history Colorado.

[00:09:22] I love a great museum and history Colorado is one of my favorites at eight museums across

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[00:09:47] Their members support local artists and designers after school programs for working families

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[00:10:00] I had seen now for the last two three years that in the other podcast groups which are

[00:10:07] great.

[00:10:08] I'm a member of several others but the issue that I would kept running into it was that on

[00:10:14] some of the groups the responses that I would get to my questions were very much on the

[00:10:18] one on one level so I couldn't get deeper information I couldn't get higher level like more

[00:10:24] experienced information out of folks on some of these groups because you know we're

[00:10:30] just all a lot of us are still learning and some people are at different levels and others

[00:10:35] in the learning process.

[00:10:36] And there's nothing wrong with that but I really was craving a little bit more than

[00:10:40] that I needed more information and then on other groups I was being man splamed to and

[00:10:46] so I was like okay like there has to be a balance of course we want to continue to have

[00:10:53] the one-on-one conversations but I really think that at this point where the podcasting

[00:10:58] industry is now I mean we are what almost 18 years into the game a little bit more than

[00:11:04] that so the podcasting industry is now evolving so fast we went from less than 1 million

[00:11:11] podcasts in 2019 to over 2 million podcasts after 2020 was done with us.

[00:11:20] So imagine I mean like we're booming and so right now is the best time to get that knowledge

[00:11:26] but how are we going to get that?

[00:11:28] That was my question I was like all right so we need more access.

[00:11:32] We need to be talking to the leaders that are creating the rules people that are making

[00:11:37] changes in the industry folks that are working at some of these digital companies that are

[00:11:42] providing services to podcasters.

[00:11:44] All these people are having the conversations at a level where a lot of BIPOC folks are

[00:11:50] not being able to access like we're not letting and it's not necessarily on purpose but it

[00:11:56] is something that's happening and so how do we get access to this information and that's

[00:12:00] where the idea came to create this group and to start forming those alliances with the

[00:12:05] people that are making decisions so that we can be a part of those decisions so that

[00:12:09] we can amplify the voices of BIPOC sorry of BIPOC folks in the podcasting industry.

[00:12:17] So for me it was all of that definitely the mans cleaning and various groups made me crazy

[00:12:26] I have no patience for that kind of thing.

[00:12:29] In addition to the mansplaining what I experienced immediately in several of these groups was a

[00:12:39] different kind of explaining it was white explaining and you know this show is mainly focused

[00:12:47] on women of color and so I would ask questions.

[00:12:51] I was just thinking you give an example.

[00:12:53] Yes.

[00:12:54] I would ask questions that would be like specific to my audience or specific to the kind of guests

[00:13:00] that I was asking for and being clear in the questions like this audience, this the guests

[00:13:06] that I have on this show is focused on women of color although we will have others but the

[00:13:11] majority is women of color and the audience is mostly women of color as well.

[00:13:16] And so I would ask these sort of nuanced questions about this is about like audience

[00:13:20] growth and trying to reach a specific audience and inevitably I would get like bombarded with

[00:13:28] these responses from well meaning white women who were subtly racist.

[00:13:36] And I would be like are you serious right now?

[00:13:40] And so I would just go through I would like delete myself from the group or I would put

[00:13:45] out a call for guests submissions and say I'm looking for guests to speak on this topic.

[00:13:51] I am specifically looking for a woman of color in this industry something to that effect

[00:13:56] and again I would get bombarded by white women who didn't read the post or I would get

[00:14:05] bombarded by white women who read the post but didn't care that I said I'm specifically

[00:14:12] looking for this person and I remember one time I posted about looking for a guest because

[00:14:19] I was specifically looking for an indigenous woman who could talk about the missing and murdered

[00:14:27] indigenous women movement.

[00:14:30] So it needed to be an indigenous woman.

[00:14:33] And I got three white women who messaged me and we're like I'm an expert on this topic

[00:14:41] I'm a social scientist and I was like the post says that I'm looking for I was pissed.

[00:14:49] Not paying attention.

[00:14:51] Well, no they saw it and they saw that the post said it doesn't care yes you're right.

[00:14:57] They just didn't care they felt like they should trump somebody who is actually part of

[00:15:03] that community because they study it academically in like their graduate program.

[00:15:09] But then there's a qualified yeah but they they missed it.

[00:15:13] No, I exactly.

[00:15:14] Yeah, I know exactly what you mean with that and I'll give you another example too of the

[00:15:21] kind of responses that you get in some of the groups that that frustrate me and when we

[00:15:26] talk about mansplaining or white explaining and that was for example recently I posted

[00:15:30] a question about like I said I have 10 say I have 10 to 20 dollars to spend on every guest

[00:15:36] that comes on my show and I want to send them a pair of headphones that have a microphone

[00:15:41] in them.

[00:15:42] Just in case they don't have anything else, you know like as I thank you and then also

[00:15:46] like here's your last you know resort for good audio which you know as you know we've

[00:15:52] discussed at length many times right so I asked that question and I said what's the

[00:15:57] best set of headphones that I could sense somebody for with that budget and it's if you

[00:16:03] ask me that's a very inventive very interesting question to ask do you know that I got one

[00:16:09] actual response that said the name of a brand right and a type of microphone and he was

[00:16:15] like I think it's a little bit more than you know $30 but it's the closest I could get

[00:16:20] to your budget.

[00:16:22] The rest where like save your money save your $20 it's not worth it like a bunch of like

[00:16:29] funny trying to be funny responses like basically like buy them chocolates instead or

[00:16:37] like just not helpful advice but I'm asking a question it's like if you don't know the

[00:16:42] answer of you can't help me then don't answer.

[00:16:45] It's very simple why do you have to come on here and make me feel like I'm a dumbass

[00:16:49] because honestly that's really basically the intent make yourself feel good by telling

[00:16:55] me that I'm a dumbass for thinking that I could do something with $10 to $20 that

[00:17:00] would help anybody or you know feeling like you're better than me because you know

[00:17:05] that the earbuds are not going to make their sound you know that they're not going to

[00:17:09] sound great with the earbuds so why would I spend money on that like oh my god I can't

[00:17:13] believe you would even ask that question.

[00:17:16] That's the kind of stuff that you get in some of these groups and it really bothers me

[00:17:21] and I'm like this isn't helpful so we are trying to create a community where I'm sure

[00:17:28] that stuff like that will happen I'm not saying that it's you know that we're impermeable

[00:17:32] to things like that but I do think that there is something to be said about the buy-pug

[00:17:38] community that when you're in a group or you feel safer in expressing certain questions

[00:17:45] hopefully we will have a type of membership that will say you know what I don't know

[00:17:50] the answer to that let me know when you find out like that sounds interesting or even if

[00:17:54] it is a question that you're like oh my god I can't believe you would ask this question

[00:17:57] which I'm sure will happen that you will at least have some empathy and remember where

[00:18:02] you were when you started podcasting.

[00:18:05] Right right I think that's really important and that's missing I think from a large majority

[00:18:12] of the groups that I've been in I mean not all of them right women of color podcasters

[00:18:18] has been a really great group to be a part of but it looks like they're moving off

[00:18:23] Facebook at this point so we'll see what happens with that and there's other great groups

[00:18:28] out there that are intended to support different aspects of the buy-pug community and we hope

[00:18:33] to be able to collaborate with all of them at some point and they're definitely welcome

[00:18:39] in this group as well but I think for me what all of that other stuff aside when I first

[00:18:46] came into podcasting the thing that I realized immediately that was a problem was access

[00:18:52] like immediately and I realized that because I had just I was just like started the show

[00:18:59] didn't think I was gonna like have a show like you know the story I started the podcast

[00:19:04] to learn how to podcast and then I thought that someday I would have a good idea for

[00:19:08] a podcast.

[00:19:09] So hold me to learn how to podcast let me launch a podcast.

[00:19:16] I just didn't know any other way to do it that is so you.

[00:19:19] That's who you are.

[00:19:22] I'm very I'm a hands-on learner and so I was like yeah I was just gonna like learn how

[00:19:26] to podcast and do a few episodes and then one day I'll have a good idea for a podcast

[00:19:32] that's what I thought was gonna happen right so I realized that I need to bring this show

[00:19:37] back for a second season and I'm like holy shit I don't know what I'm doing and it

[00:19:43] was really difficult to find access because first of all women of color podcasters didn't

[00:19:50] exist yet.

[00:19:51] It hadn't happened and the catalyst that really got me thinking about what does it mean

[00:19:59] to be a person of color or marginalized group in this podcasting space was Spotify and

[00:20:07] Google did these women of color boot camps where they said and this would have to have been

[00:20:12] in 2018 I think it was like late 2018 and they put out a call for new podcasters or like

[00:20:24] hadn't started their show like you could just have an idea or you had to be brand new

[00:20:27] and they were like send in your I feel like this Google application send in your idea and

[00:20:33] we're gonna pick some people to like mentor and launch their shows and twice I applied

[00:20:38] so both of them right I was excited I was like oh this is so great because the numbers

[00:20:44] like the numbers of people of color and podcasting have grown significantly since then there

[00:20:50] were still definitely way in the minority compared to the rest of the industry but at that

[00:20:55] time it was like tiny it was like 2% or something and now I think I think it's still less than

[00:21:02] 20% I would don't quote me on that I would have to check yeah we need to check we would we will

[00:21:07] have to check back I'll double check that but I applied and then after I applied I went

[00:21:15] back and read the fine print on both applications and I was like I am an idiot what was the fine

[00:21:21] print so the fine print was that if they they basically own your show oh that's right that's

[00:21:29] right I felt that I'm later too so by applying you gave them the right to take your idea and

[00:21:39] create something with it without you and I think they changed that later because of that I

[00:21:45] think they made it so that it had to be with you I think something like that I don't know but

[00:21:50] yeah no you're right they're they're they're yeah I don't know but it was like and it was so

[00:21:56] unlike me to not read the fine print and I just felt so stupid after that I was like I cannot

[00:22:05] believe that I basically gave them my intellectual property away for free just because they were like

[00:22:13] we want to invest in some women of color and they only took like five or 10 people and there were

[00:22:19] thousands of applications and maybe it's better since then I have not gone back they're still doing

[00:22:26] it every year I've not gone back and re-read over their new terms and conditions but it felt so

[00:22:31] exploitive to me and I realized like if this is what you have to go through to get access to people

[00:22:39] in places that can help you grow as a creator that's not okay you're right and that those boot camps

[00:22:48] were also the catalyst for women of color podcasters group to be created I think I remember that

[00:22:53] that was the beginning yes I remember that and and the group grew pretty fast after that and

[00:22:59] honestly it's because of that group that I was able to meet you so it's kind of cool then

[00:23:04] you know all that came together yeah that group has been great and they've grown it's

[00:23:09] it's what has been grown and handled really well the founder has done such an excellent job with

[00:23:15] it's and I totally get why there's a move now away from Facebook and into you know with a new

[00:23:21] business model it makes total sense but I think that the need for that level of support still exist

[00:23:27] and so I think we're we've just decided that we're going to be the ones yeah we're filling the

[00:23:33] need that we saw I mean when honestly when Tengee and I talked about this it was like okay there's

[00:23:39] a need in two levels again in the access level like we're not getting access to this information

[00:23:46] but then also like people that want a little bit more than the 101 and then also there are

[00:23:53] people who don't want to necessarily step out of Facebook right now even though a lot of us

[00:23:58] are frustrated with Facebook in many ways you know there there's that also that also that other

[00:24:03] layer that we have to content with so we decided that we needed to build this group inside of

[00:24:07] Facebook for now obviously the community will still will be available on Instagram as well as far

[00:24:13] as like following us and getting some information but the main thing of you know the main component

[00:24:20] of BIPOC podcast creators will be on the Facebook group because we wanted it to be something private

[00:24:26] something where people felt comfortable sharing and asking questions and not being berated for

[00:24:32] the types of concerns that they have or they bring up and then I also want to go over the goals

[00:24:38] that we came up with if that's okay with you Tengee yeah yeah of course just want to talk about the

[00:24:43] goals for BIPOC podcast creators which we have five main goals that we're going to have and one is

[00:24:49] to create higher level resources for podcasters going beyond the 101 like I said number two is to

[00:24:56] advocate to create a higher level of access into the podcasting industry number three is we want

[00:25:03] to build a space where BIPOC podcast creators can express themselves authentically and without judgment

[00:25:10] because you know and I think hold on let me inject right here that one's super important to me because

[00:25:16] one of the rules of this group is that we totally welcome with open arms

[00:25:22] um BIPOC creators in all of their many identities so if you are part of the queer community if you

[00:25:29] were trans however you might identify whatever your identity is it's welcome here and I feel like

[00:25:34] there's been in podcasting specifically very few spaces where you can be all of those things at one

[00:25:41] time like there's groups for people who are queer or trans or however they identify whatever their

[00:25:50] identity is and then there are like group for black podcasters or women podcasters but we wanted to

[00:25:56] intentionally try to create this space that is like be all of the many facets of your identity

[00:26:03] right here and we will not tolerate hate speech of any kinds um if you're just just bring who you

[00:26:10] are authentically right exactly this space and especially sorry I didn't mean to interrupt but

[00:26:17] especially because I like what you said and the many facets of who you are bring all of that

[00:26:22] with you not just like oh here's the black of me or here's the woman of me I am a multicultural

[00:26:29] individual you know I'm Mexican but I also I'm married to a black person I have a biracial child

[00:26:37] I grew up in this country because I'm an immigrant so I have a lot of facets of me that I like

[00:26:43] to celebrate and that's why bifox creators is for you it's for everybody who feels like there's

[00:26:50] so many different layers to them and they want to celebrate all of that without judgment and authentically

[00:26:54] and that's why we created this group and it's reflected in the color scheme even that we have

[00:26:59] for for our logo so number four the fourth goal is to bring visibility opportunities that will

[00:27:05] advance bifox podcast creators so that's when we talk about like where can they speak uh where

[00:27:11] you know opportunities to speak opportunities to mentor opportunities to be mentored um submitting

[00:27:17] to awards all of those kinds of things uh we want to bring to our our bifox podcast creators in the

[00:27:24] group then number five we also want to offer resources that will help create a more sustainable

[00:27:30] creation process because as Tengia mentioned at the top of the episode 50% or so of podcasts don't

[00:27:37] even make it past the seventh episode so we want to try to elevate and amplify the voices of

[00:27:43] bifox folks in the podcasting industry by creating resources and giving access to resources that will

[00:27:51] allow them to have a more sustainable production process because that is key to being able to

[00:27:56] build that podcast and continue to put it out weekend and week out which by the way I woke up

[00:28:03] this morning as I told you before we started recording I woke up this morning with a heavy heart

[00:28:08] and a heavy head I apologize I thought I silenced all my devices I am very sorry about that very

[00:28:14] unprofessional um so I woke up this morning with that thought in my head of like 50% of what I do

[00:28:21] or what we do as podcasters or podcast creators is the creativity process is like oh the fun of

[00:28:28] recording get into know somebody new asking great questions coming up with some really cool ideas

[00:28:35] and then the other 50% of what we do is some bullshit it's like how do I get people to listen

[00:28:42] how many times do I need to post on social media so that people can see my posts and I can

[00:28:46] beat the algorithm wait a minute I can't do video all the time because then they bury me oh no I

[00:28:50] can't put that much text on my image because they'll bury me oh wait I can't necessarily tag too

[00:28:55] many people because they'll bury me and again or even this like oh I just saw that this topic is

[00:29:02] trending um maybe I should do an episode on this topic so that I can be in the algorithm so that

[00:29:07] people can pick me up on Google searches I mean that's 50% of what we do as creators we have to

[00:29:14] look at the business side of it the the aspect that says you're competing with a ton of other

[00:29:20] people millions and millions and millions of content out there for people's ears and or eyes in

[00:29:26] some cases so what are you going to do about that and that's 50% of it and it can be really frustrating

[00:29:33] it can make you really tired it can make you want to throw your headphones give up and just be one

[00:29:39] of those 50% podcast that don't make it passive in the episode or whatever and I think that I'm hoping

[00:29:46] that this group will alleviate some of that will at least be a place where you can come and say oh my

[00:29:52] god I need to vent is someone else feeling what I'm feeling or how did someone else get over this hurdle

[00:30:00] and not just you know feel like you have to do it on your own that's that's the key I think to

[00:30:06] to to creating right and it's like you have to get into this rhythm and understanding of okay

[00:30:13] 50% of it is the fun stuff and the other 50% I'm not going to love it but I have to learn to

[00:30:19] manage it and that's where I think that we could help people become a little bit more successful in

[00:30:25] that in that area or at least that's one of my goals now I think you're right I mean the bullshit makes

[00:30:31] it hard it makes it sometimes unbearable it makes it you know like I've told you before my

[00:30:38] email like I just want to quit today like everything I just want to quit and I'm going to get a

[00:30:43] job at Starbucks so I can drink coffee and not be bothered with any of the stuff. And just talk

[00:30:51] to people and say hi and ask them questions yeah yes that's it I'll just get a part-time job

[00:30:59] as a barista and make coffee coffee makes people happy and I'll have my health insurance

[00:31:05] and that's all I need. None of this bullshit but the truth is like the bullshit is what makes

[00:31:11] it hard but the community is what makes it possible. I love that and you're right when

[00:31:17] when I was creating an isolation it was really really hard and then when I found you know people

[00:31:26] out there who could relay and we're experiencing the same thing and we're like yeah this is my

[00:31:31] problem too and and being able to connect on that level it'll be you're right it'll be beated that

[00:31:38] and you know does that mean that we're creating an movement I don't know that we're creating a

[00:31:42] movement. I mean we're creating I think a community space for people to get the support that they

[00:31:49] need but I think you know your point around sustainability is really really important because

[00:31:57] I am from one and willing to fight to get as many

[00:32:02] high casters of color in this industry and sustaining in this industry and thriving in this industry

[00:32:09] because we have to control our own narratives. Absolutely we are the ones that get to do that nobody

[00:32:15] else right unless you get unless you don't if we don't speak our stories if we don't put our

[00:32:20] stuff out there somebody else will steal it from us because that's what that's always what happens

[00:32:25] and we know who that somebody else would be for the most part right and I have to counter

[00:32:31] and say that I think we are creating a movement in jihad because think about it this way and

[00:32:38] this is something that was also on my heart last week you know that whole like competitive mentality

[00:32:43] that exists in our people of color community in our vibe of communities that it's like permeating

[00:32:50] everything we do like most of the time and it happens with women a lot as well it's like there's

[00:32:55] mentality there's mentality of scarcity there's not enough room for more than one person at the top

[00:33:00] there's not enough room for more than one black person one Latino one woman etc and so

[00:33:07] because there has been so much tokenism in our history and that is true that's fact I mean

[00:33:14] for a very long time there was only room for one and so because of that many of us I think

[00:33:20] I would even say millennials and above in the generational landscape for many of us we have grown

[00:33:29] up with that scarcity mentality and that mentality of like I have to keep everything close to heart

[00:33:34] I can't trust anybody I can't really share my successes with people because they'll hate on me

[00:33:40] if I cheer somebody on they'll take it all from me if I mentor somebody who's younger than me

[00:33:46] they'll take my job one day like all these all these things come through your head right and don't

[00:33:51] like look I'll be the first to admit it that happens to me it's happened and I'm trying to

[00:33:56] grow out of that and I think that that's where I say we are creating a movement because

[00:34:02] by-pog podcast creators yes it's a support community for resources and for people to be

[00:34:08] authentically themselves but also I hope that it fosters a new mentality of hey there's room for

[00:34:16] more there's room for growth and yes of course we're always going to be competitive because that's

[00:34:22] in our nature and that's okay and that's kind of like a fact of where you know we live we live in

[00:34:27] a society that is competitive so there will always be competition but I think that hopefully

[00:34:35] we will continue to learn to let go and shed that scarcity mentality like if we have this group where

[00:34:41] people can support each other authentically then maybe it will permeate into their lives and it'll

[00:34:48] seep through beyond the borders of our group and it'll continue on to help them in their lives as

[00:34:56] people with other people with our other communities and maybe we'll make some changes even if

[00:35:01] they're small but that's where I see it as a movement. I think that's fair I think that's about

[00:35:08] the assessment I think that yeah I mean historically there was only allowed to ever be one right like

[00:35:16] if you turn on the TV and you were watching the news there could be like one black person one

[00:35:22] Asian person one Latinx person like on a TV show there could be one black person

[00:35:31] one you know there could only be one at a time and I do hope that we can help change that at least in

[00:35:39] the podcasting industry because it's again I come back to like we need to be able to control our

[00:35:47] own narratives because if you look like first of all it's just better it's just better when we tell

[00:35:55] our stories our way and it comes a lot more authentically that way and it connects with your

[00:36:01] audience when it actually comes from you. Yes absolutely instead of other people speaking on our

[00:36:09] behalf and like this is one of the problems that I big problems that I have with news media that

[00:36:13] I've been talking with people in in media here locally where I live in Colorado is that you know

[00:36:19] you don't get to tell somebody's story just because you're a journalist like what

[00:36:26] just because you went to journalism school or just because you're the reporter you don't get to

[00:36:30] decide that you tell that story on the behalf of someone else like that's their story and I feel

[00:36:35] like you need to have their permission to do that and if they want you to tell their story then

[00:36:40] you need to do that in a way that's really respectful but when other people are controlling the

[00:36:46] story telling for us we only ever get stories of conflict and stories of you know scarcity and

[00:36:55] this horrible thing that happens when that is just such a small aspect of anybody's life.

[00:37:00] And that's how we got to where we are now I mean if you think about it it's the control of the

[00:37:04] narrative that got us to this point of history or this point in society where there's still so much

[00:37:11] hate and division and there's still so much belief that people of color are not good enough by some

[00:37:18] just you know societal standards or are not worthy or deserving enough and so I that's it you hit

[00:37:25] the nail in the head as they would say you have to take control of your narrative and that is why

[00:37:32] we need more voices that is why we need to continue to amplify the voices of by-park people not only

[00:37:38] in podcasting but just in general creativity in general content creation video everything because

[00:37:46] by telling those stories and by having those voices involved is how we're really going to turn the

[00:37:51] corner as a society. And obviously I mean I'm I'm generalizing I'm making a very like simple right

[00:37:58] it's not that simple I know that but it's really I really do think that media plays a huge role

[00:38:05] into the equality journey that we're on and the you know social justice journey that we're on.

[00:38:13] A hundred percent and I again I have this conversation recently in fact with some media people here

[00:38:20] in Colorado around the importance of storytelling and for for people to be able to control their own

[00:38:29] stories and just like to give you an example so a month or two ago I was approached by a journalist who

[00:38:40] was doing a story on for an online publication about women of color specifically in podcasting

[00:38:48] and like what the journey has been like. And one of the things that she told me is that she couldn't

[00:38:53] find at first like it took her a long time to create the story because at first she had a really

[00:38:59] difficult time finding women of color podcasters who met a certain criteria like they had to been

[00:39:06] you know consistent with the show had to have been consistent for like at least a certain amount of time

[00:39:12] and she wanted a podcaster that was obviously woman of color who was established had an established

[00:39:18] show of some kind and had clearly reached some level of quote unquote success right so they had

[00:39:24] an established show they clearly had a following they were maybe on the cusp of are already monetizing

[00:39:30] their show so nothing really crazy some basic things and she and she just was like I for the

[00:39:38] longest time could not find anyone and I was like well huh because I I know hundreds like literally

[00:39:46] I know hundreds and I said so how did you find me so she eventually found her way into the women

[00:39:54] color Facebook group and posted in there and then somebody tagged me and that's how we ended up

[00:40:01] getting connected but before that happened she was like there was no place that I knew to go to

[00:40:08] to find who I was looking for and this is a journalist who's a woman of color herself

[00:40:12] she was like it was really frustrating and I felt like it was really important to to write this

[00:40:16] article but in the beginning it was really frustrating and I just thought I don't ever want to hear

[00:40:22] again that a journalist is looking to connect with a person of color to let them tell their story

[00:40:29] and to amplify their work and she can't find who she's looking for like that is completely unacceptable

[00:40:35] to me because there's thousands of us out there we know there are yeah yeah and the fact that a

[00:40:41] journalist a person that is paid to do research to actually spend hours on the internet trying to

[00:40:47] pin down somebody and right obviously that but they that person has skills right they have skills

[00:40:55] to research and figure things out and they can't find it that that's not good that definitely

[00:41:01] really let us know that there is a serious need for that community and I'm so glad that we have it

[00:41:06] um I want to I know we're running kind of long on time I wanted to know if we could talk briefly

[00:41:12] about um you know how they can get to the group and then also how they can help support the group

[00:41:19] yes that was going to be the next thing so to get to the group just like if you're on Facebook

[00:41:26] use Facebook just go to Facebook okay I've been to search bar yes go to search bar utilize your

[00:41:33] search bar by-pock podcast creators and the link will be in the show description yes okay cool

[00:41:41] or the episode yes the link yes we'll put that we'll link in the in the show notes for everybody

[00:41:48] same thing on instagram same exact that's the handle by-pock podcast creators there's a link in the

[00:41:56] bio that will take you directly to the group as well yes and another way that you can support

[00:42:03] this group and this community and help us build together is by buying us a coffee so you can go to

[00:42:09] buy me a coffee dot com forward slash by-pock and you can buy us a coffee so that we can continue

[00:42:16] to build this community we have some options on there and actually we have our first goal is to get

[00:42:22] to two thousand dollars when we get to two thousand dollars we will build out our first website

[00:42:27] so that we can start to create that landing page for future people who are going to be looking

[00:42:33] for by-pock folks and podcasting like reporters can find you and us easier yes absolutely so

[00:42:43] definitely support in any way you can join the group you're part of this community and want

[00:42:48] that support but by me a coffee would be really helpful to us as well so that we can build that

[00:42:54] podcast or that website and then with that we'll come the blog and many other opportunities we

[00:43:00] definitely don't want to build this house on facebook as a platform where we see we see facebook

[00:43:08] as a temporary solution but we definitely need to get to a space that we have that website so that

[00:43:14] whatever shenanigans that facebook is doing don't impact us exactly we'll put

[00:43:23] yes and they're always up to some kind of shenanigans so thank you muddy bell for joining me today

[00:43:31] I'm excited to get this episode out and talk just talk about this group and let people more people

[00:43:35] know that it's out there and that it's growing and that we're here for it and if you want to collaborate

[00:43:41] with us like if you are a member of the media and you have an idea email us I will link that in

[00:43:46] the show notes but the email is by-pock podcast creators at gmail.com if you are a brand or a company

[00:43:53] that's looking for collaborations we definitely want to hear from you we're all about amplifying

[00:43:59] the voices of these creators we're also bringing them and connecting them to opportunities that they

[00:44:03] may not otherwise have so you know think of us as a resource and if you are a creator in the space

[00:44:11] and a person of by-pock identity we definitely invite you to join into your space

[00:44:17] to get the support that you need so let us know absolutely thank you so much for having me this was

[00:44:23] awesome my my pleasure all right folks you know what to do all of the links will be in the show notes

[00:44:29] as usual and please share this episode out with any creators you know or anybody that might be

[00:44:36] interested in collaborating with us we believe in a collaboration not competition so whatever it is

[00:44:43] we can find a way to work together for the most part but we are excited to keep growing this group

[00:44:48] and keep creating and hopefully we'll see you in the group until next time we're out