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[00:01:01] ...knows who shot a leek! Welcome to Real Nerds Podcast Live at Fan Expo 2025. I'm Ryan, I am joined by author... Adam Santino. Adam, welcome to the first time you've ever been on this podcast that anyone would ever know.
[00:01:30] Nah, like I told you man, like I used to podcast and like just things happen. Yeah, it's, you know, it's a double-edged sword because I'm... So Adam and I have done this before. I have my kid with me and he was helping the kids on the game and a ball went back there and he went to get it and he killed the power and corrupted a file with your half of an interview and all of Travis's... All of it. Nobody wants to hear from Travis, you know.
[00:01:56] I know. It's one of my best friends, but like enough of him. Yeah. Yeah. Enough, man. You know, Brad says there's a 1% chance he can save it. We'll see what happens. Uh, well, are y'all from around here? Yeah. So, I mean, that's not like, you know, like I'm from New Orleans, so like it would have to be like Zoom. Yeah, so better that we're in person. Travis, I'll just say, hey man, I'll buy you a beer if you want to be on the show again and hopefully he'll do it. So, um, but welcome. Thank you.
[00:02:23] You know, I heard you're a big J. Michael Straczynski fan. I am. Yeah, no, I don't know how we started talking about that. I tend to go run off at the mouth about Straczynski though. And I have a bad habit of just flowing with it, you know, and see where conversation goes. It's more fun. Like at the front of my book, The Dedication, because I have two books actually.
[00:02:49] One is an autobiography of my time in the Disney college program called Earning My Ears. Um, it's literally Earning My Ears, my adventures in the Disney college program. I guess we just introduced it that way. But the dedication for that one was my four heroes. And there's a fifth person who's my boss. Um, but it's Straczynski, Warren Ellis, and then my comedy heroes are David Tell and Steven Wright. Heck yeah.
[00:03:17] And I, I, I, I can never hope to be on that level. Yeah. Or any of those things. But like, like if I could be half as tempted as any of those people, I've lived a good life. You know, I think, uh, Brad and I actually quote David Tell all the time. Mm-hmm. Because he has a style of comedy that seems not smart, but it's some of the smartest comedy. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's really quick.
[00:03:46] You know, I always, uh, one of my favorites is, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you kick a midget, you wake up, you have a donkey tail. You know, just, oh, he just. It's a skanks for the memory. Yeah. He just spirals out of control. That's a really interesting, uh, comedy album because like one of the, one of the problems with, with comedy albums and specials is. So take whoever you want. Uh, we'll stick with David Tell.
[00:04:12] People go to the show and if they're big fans of that, a lot of times they like, they want to do the greatest hits, but that's the thing is like comedy isn't music. Agreed. You, you know, but the interesting thing about skanks for the memories is I listened to it about once every three years. If you do it at that pace, it's still funny. Oh yeah. If you do it like more than that, then you're just getting nostalgia off of it, but there's not a lot of comedy albums that can do that. Yeah.
[00:04:37] You know, it's one of my, I saw him at comedy works and Amy Schumer opened for him. That's how long ago and how long he's been a force in, you know, comedy. And I mean, I used to stay recognized on that level. I know it's crazy. I used to stay up and watch, you know, uh, his show on comedy central all the time. On Somniacs. Yeah. Because it's just, do you, do you happen to remember the New Orleans episode? Oh yeah. Super embarrassing. I, and look, I'm not, I'm from New Orleans. I'm not a new one.
[00:05:07] I'm, I would tell people I'm the worst New Orleans person you've ever met in your life. Cause we're like, especially like the Disney college program, you know, people would start off introducing themselves like, Oh, I'm John. I'm from New Jersey, whatever. As soon as people hear I'm from New Orleans, I put up my hands. I go, stop everything you're about to say. No, like I don't, I hate gumbo. You don't eat beignets. I, well, beignets is the beignets and snowballs are the one, the two things. Well, I was like, I hate Mardi Gras.
[00:05:36] And like by the end of the spree, people will be like, you really are the worst New Orleans person ever. But, um, you know, but, but it is on the Somniac episode. Uh, Sheriff Harry Lee, which is the, from the suburbs, um, uh, Jefferson Parish. He took David tell on a truck to go hunt nutria, which is a type of rodents. And it, look, I don't care.
[00:06:01] It's funny, but it's, but from, if I wasn't from New Orleans, I'd be like, is that what they do? They, they run around in pickup trucks and shoot roadies and like a drainage ditches. Yeah. It was really weird. But, um, but you know, I tell, I, I, I love a tell so much and Steven, right? Somebody wants, before I say this, what's the language level on this podcast is rated R. Okay.
[00:06:30] Um, when I was in college, I went to a play for extra credit. One of my, one, another student in the class. And then we were just talking at one point he goes, you know, you remind me of man, you remind me of Steven Wright. And I looked over and was like, I think I got to suck this guy's dick now. I was like, I got a really bad gag reflex too. I don't know. I was like, uh, so I made it quick, but you know, um, but yeah, no, all those people
[00:06:59] in Straczynski is number one. I was telling you earlier, uh, Travis and I went to, um, dim, uh, not Denver. Um, Phoenix fan fusion, which is a massive convention. It's maybe a little bit bigger than this. Wow. Um, and I've never heard of it. I'm a lifelong comics fan. Never heard of this. I also lived in, uh, in, in Arizona. So it's, it's just weird. Yeah. Uh, and Arizona doesn't have a lot of comic shops either.
[00:07:29] That's weird. Very strange. Uh, but I mean, to be fair, these are all pop cons now. Not so much comic time. Yeah. But, um, Straczynski was there and it was my, I went specifically, it was like, this is my chance to be my hero. And, uh, he ended up showing up really late. He didn't have like a lot of people there to see him. Uh, but I was there with, I told you I had the, uh, the Spider-Man 9 11 issue, the famous black issue, a couple other things. I had his autobiography.
[00:07:57] And, um, so he finally got there at two o'clock and, uh, so I ran over and he's signing some stuff for me. He's talking to me a little bit and I was like, yeah, on the way on the plane in, I read the first chapter of your, your book, how to read, how to become a writer, how to stay a writer. And, and it struck me deeply. Uh, you know, and I felt the need to write something really personal. He's like, how's that going? And I said, uh, pretty well.
[00:08:24] And I was kind of choking up and I walked back over to Travis who was across the table across. He goes, so did you cry? And I went, not, not yet. Um, I'm going to go for it. Like legitimately, like I'm like walking around and like the, the side halls and like, all right, man, you're, you're, you're 44 years old. I get it, get it together, man. Psyching yourself up. He just, he means so much to me.
[00:08:50] Isn't that, it is, it is hard to, you know, quantify how much stuff means to you. And I, uh, I, I struggle with my wife all the time because I, I become a baby in certain things and it, you know, it's with Spider-Man as you get older. Yeah. Because, you know, I just, I love the character so much. And I remember in end game, I, I mean, the audience reaction as an end game was incredible. The one that always sticks with me though, because I love Spider-Man so much is when
[00:09:20] he comes back and he's, you know, in the portal, but you don't see him right away, but you see him swinging. And in the theater as in people were cheering and standing up and then he lands and his mask comes off and people are just going insane. I cry because I'm like, Oh my God, it means so much to me too. Well, you know, part of that though is it's very interesting. I'm assuming it's on purpose, but it is Sony. So it's kind of hard to say. Tony is uncle Ben for Peter. Mm-hmm.
[00:09:50] Like they, they kind of in, in the, uh, the last Spider-Man movie, they kind of made it so that aunt may is uncle Ben. Yeah. But up until then, like Tony fills that role. Agreed. And like, just when Robert Downey Jr. grabs him by the face and like hugs him, like, that's the thing is like, I don't have kids, unfortunately, but you're, you know, your dad and that kind of stuff gets in like, and also as you get older, you think about your dad. Oh yeah. Stuff like that. And so that kind of stuff, like I cried that kind of stuff. Oh yeah.
[00:10:18] And I remember when I saw no way home because I call it the reverse origin. Uh, you know, they get aunt may involved in, you know, the goblins, the catalyst for it. And I, you know, my wife, cause when aunt may says, you know, with great power must also come great responsibility, which is actually from amazing 15. Right. Fantasy 15. She said it the correct way. We all kind of a Bridget. Yeah. Uh, I remember my wife leaned forward and just looked at me cause the tear was coming
[00:10:47] because I just, I can't help it. I can't help it. And I think that's, what's cool about being in a fandom is you have those connections and I've been saying this to everyone I've been interviewing. That's why I love this place too. Everybody just embraces, you know, what you love and it's okay. You can, you can dress up as, I don't know what the red wings on that person is, but Hey, it means something to them. But I'm going to circle back to what you said because I'm a big Disney guy. Okay.
[00:11:13] And, um, so how do you enroll in Disney university and what led you to that? Well, two things. It's the Disney college program, but there is a Disney university. Is there really? It's trying to think on the map. It's somewhere behind the magic kingdom or, or is it behind Epcot? It's, it's been a, it's, this was 2002. I'm very old in my brain. No working. But, um, so what happens is, so first of all, I don't know what the percentage is now.
[00:11:42] When I was there, I want to say it was, uh, like 1500 college program students at any given time. Wow. It's gone up since then. Um, because what happens is Disney uses for low level, uh, entry level jobs at the parks. They'll use college program students are effectively paid interns. You get minimum wage. Uh, you pay for your housing, but they own the housing. Um, you get transportation, things like that.
[00:12:09] And you do get benefits, but you're a paid intern. So they'd rather use that than use like people that they would need to pay more than minimum wage. So they, I know they've grown the number. They might've had to shrink it. Cause there's a lot of kids these days that aren't used to working and they just think like, Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to go run off to the circus and I'm just going to go play at the parks, but it's a real job. You're expected to be there. I was in monorails back when they allowed you to be a monorail pilot. They don't anymore.
[00:12:38] Um, and that's a fun story from the book. Uh, it has its own chapter. Um, you can actually read it for free on my website, santino art.com that chat, like the first five chapters are free. Um, cause it's a hard sell. Cause it's, it's partly about what it's like to actually live and work in Walt Disney World. It's also, and it's weird to say, cause I was 22. It's kind of a coming of age story in its way. Um, but, uh, it's hilarious if you're not easily offended.
[00:13:07] Uh, if you're easily offended, you're not going to like it. But, um, but so what they do is they have crews. They're usually actually alumni from the college program that go to college campuses and they, they'll have you in an auditorium and they'll be like, Hey, this is the deal. They kind of, they fudge a few things unless you're smart enough to ask questions. Like, like I remember when I was there in the auditorium, somebody was like, how much are you going to make? And they were like, um, well you won't starve.
[00:13:36] And it's like, okay, no, if you don't have any bills, you'll be fine. And if, if you don't go crazy, which is true. But no, like they, like you're, you're getting charged rent every week for a property they own, which I was always kind of like, eh, you could have lowered that a little bit, but it is good to teach kids responsibility and Hey, you got debts and stuff like that. But, um, but yeah, so the, the first day is they, they have you in the auditorium, they give you the spiel.
[00:14:03] And if you want to that, then you go to the interview and this, some of the things might have changed this 2002, you know? But, uh, one of the last things they asked me in the interview is like, well, if you were to get this job, you know, we do try to, we can't guarantee, but we do try to put you where you want to be. So give us three jobs you want to do. Um, and right off the bat, because I'm a smart ass, I was just like, Oh, I want to drive the monorail.
[00:14:31] Never thinking for a second, anyone would be stupid enough to put me in charge of a multimillion dollar train. Um, they did. Um, it didn't last more than three months before I got fired from monorails, but they did. Um, and, uh, but yeah, they, so if you pass the interview, eventually you get a letter and you can sign up for classes at Denseney university. So I have a master's degree in leadership.
[00:14:59] Could not tell you for the life of me, what I learned, what my, uh, like three page paper was that passed the class. Um, but I got it. I actually have, I still have it. Like I show people, um, is it signed by Mickey? It is. That is that, that makes it worth it. They also, if you take two classes and pass them, you get a doctorate. I did not get a doctorate, but, um, but yeah.
[00:15:28] Uh, so if you, my job was different cause if you're in monorails, it's not just, you got the job, then you have to train, take, uh, take a test. Uh, all of which again is covered in the book and it's too much information to actually, this isn't like, well, if you want to know, you gotta, again, you can actually read that chapter for free on Santino art.com. Um, but, um, but I had to pass a test. I barely passed it.
[00:15:55] Um, but I did and I got my wings and, uh, which I still have, you're supposed to give it back. But the, the, the trainer even told you like, look, uh, when you leave, supposed to get these back just so you lost them. Um, so I actually, when I got fired, but they had to keep me for a week before they transferred me to Toontown, which was a job I hated. But, um, I wanted to get my little brother something.
[00:16:23] So I had like two weeks where I was still just pulling. I couldn't drive the train, but I could pull gates open for people. So I went to them, uh, right off the bat. I was like, yeah, I lost my wings. So they gave me another pair. So I actually have two pair, which I gave to my brother, which he then lost immediately. I still haven't forgiven him for that, but I was just like, yeah, you know, they track you down if this shit goes on eBay. So is that something to say, I want to be Mickey mouse? Um, you can't do that.
[00:16:53] You can be one of the guys. Um, but that's actually, uh, you, oh, and again, bear in mind, like, I don't know if things have changed, but you can be in the parade because, um, back then, I don't know if you remember, they used to have a parade at, uh, animal kingdom called tapestry of dreams. Yeah. Uh, I knew people in taps. Um, but I knew there were people in costuming. There were pretty, almost every job. There was one guy that got chosen to work, uh, on the ferry.
[00:17:22] Uh, again, I don't think they allowed that anymore. I know there's no more, you can't do pump monorails anymore. Is a monorail all automated now, or is there still someone who drives it? No. Well, so driving like they're called monorail pilots. Mm-hmm . It's a general term. What it is, is there's, um, there's multiple controls that you have to handle. Um, most of your job is knowing when they tell you to stop on marker 222.
[00:17:50] For some reason, it's not numerical, which I've often thought about like as an adult. I was like, why is like, you have to know the pattern. Yeah. It's a pattern. So it'll be like 222 17th. And I don't remember the pattern, which is why I got fired. Um, and again, that story is available at SantinoArt.com. You can, you can read about how I got fired. It's a funny story. Um, but there's a, basically a speed control and a few other things and emergency stop
[00:18:18] and you're controlling the speed and you're knowing where to stop. And you've also got to know like when to stop when you're pulling into the station. None of that's automated. And I don't know, like my understanding was like, what happens is they would alternate from Walt Disney world to Disneyland. And every, so I don't remember what the number of years was. I don't remember those 10 years or eight years. They're supposed to like update one of them. So if it was Disneyland last year and eight years, it would be Walt Disney world. It would go back and forth.
[00:18:48] It's probably, I'm not, I know it's more than eight years, but I don't know if they've up to, I don't think they've updated at all in the 20 plus years. Um, so I don't know what's going on with that. They do have a maintenance. Um, there's actually a garage for the monorails in the back. Really? They don't all go there. Every state there's the, they, they park with different stations. So one will be parked at, uh, the magic kingdom station. One will be parked parked at the ticket and transportation center.
[00:19:14] Another will be parked in the, uh, contemporary and, but there's a couple that'll get parked in the garage. And, uh, if you're curious how it works, what happens at literally at the end of the line of a monorail, um, there's no station. It's, I mean, it's, it's a warehouse. Um, the rail just ends like it just ends. There's no like barricade or it just ends. And the way that you stop is there's a tennis ball, an actual tennis ball hanging from the ceiling.
[00:19:44] And the tennis ball is supposed to touch the windshield. Yeah. That's like grandfather stuff. Yeah. And this is, again, this is the, at the, may not be for long, but the biggest theme park in the world. And, uh, that's how they stopped the monorail, a multimillion dollar train. And they, they give between 18 and 22 year old kids that responsibility. They don't anymore. Probably for the same reasons that I got fired. So that's interesting.
[00:20:14] Cause I took my kid, uh, during COVID to, uh, the magic kingdom and Disney world and the lines, they would make you go behind the warehouses and stuff. Cause you had to have the six feet. And I had the whole time. I go, man, Walt would be spinning his grave. He'd be doing that about a lot of stuff with Disney now. Yeah. They've gotten rid of a lot of the magic in the last I'd say, even before COVID. Hmm. The last time I went was 2019.
[00:20:42] And it, I remember feeling like, cause you gotta understand that from my perspective. So like you go there and you have, when was the earliest you went? Uh, fourth grade. So like late eighties. So nine years old, maybe roughly. Um, so you have specific memories of your childhood and your parents going there. It's very similar to me where like I would go there and it wasn't just rides to me. It was like, Oh, that's where we did that. Mm hmm.
[00:21:10] Oh, that's where Nicole broke my, Oh, you know what? There's, I changed her name, but I guess it doesn't matter. It's a podcast. I said, she's not going to hear it. She's not going to sue me. Uh, her name's Dana in the book, but her real name is Nicole. Cause I had to ask certain people, certain people I didn't want to go to. Yeah. So I just changed their name and didn't use a photo. And there's certain people that that's their actual name and they were happy to be in it.
[00:21:36] Um, but, um, you know, that's the popcorn booth where Nicole told me, no, we're not going on like, you know, things like that. Um, most of them good memories. Yeah. But when I went in 2019, I was just struck by like, it's not there anymore. Hmm. It's like, now it's like when you go back to your elementary school and you're like, this looks kind of familiar, but I don't remember. This isn't, this isn't the place that I remember. And I, and they, they've got, they've made it. And look, it's always been commercial.
[00:22:07] Disney is a like massive, massive thing. It takes a lot of money, especially during COVID when they were to their credit, still paying people for a while. Yeah. And look, those rides don't just sit there. They have to be maintained. They have to, you know, you have to keep power to them to a certain degree. Yeah. And you know, um, I lost my train of thought there, but, um, about the magic being gone. And yeah.
[00:22:33] So it just doesn't like, like it's always been, that's what I was saying. Commercial. They've always, it's always been about making money, but they used to hide it. Mm. Now I feel like they're just like, just give us your money. Yeah. You know, um, I'm actually, uh, three years in a row. I've, and I'm going in September is Disneyland. Uh huh. And I think Disneyland keeps the nostalgia a little better. Um, right. Uh, cause I, and I love Disney world too.
[00:23:03] Um, but every, you know, and I've noticed that the big thing I noticed is when I used to go a while ago and like I said, I'm a Disney guy. So I like to go every, well now I've gone three years in a row, but I used to go every like other year, just alternate between the parks. And then they used to have their own like chocolates and stuff. And now I go there and I go, Oh, this is really like manufactured chocolate. It's no more. You walk into the confectionary and it's. And you see them make it, which they still do some of the stuff.
[00:23:32] But, but like you mentioned the confectionary that, and I was telling somebody the other day about, you know, we used to have a downtown Disney and look, Disney Springs is beautiful, but it's the height of commercialism because they wanted to put out cause there's a bunch of outlet malls near Walt Disney world and they wanted to put them out of business. So they turned it into a big outlet mall and there's a lot of good stuff in there, but it's hollow. Yeah. You know, I, I, yeah, I feel you on that.
[00:24:00] So how did you decide to become a writer? Uh, or were you always one and you decided that'd be a great story to tell? Uh, uh, you know, it's funny. So I, so I have two books. One is the, my autobiography. The other is a book of short stories from the last 20 years called, uh, lies we tell ourselves. And I actually, in the intro to that, I was thinking about like, okay, like what makes you
[00:24:25] a writer and, um, and I, I'm sure it's different for everybody, but there's a lot of things when you're a kid that people tell you that's your thing. And you go like, okay, that's my thing. Like I'm not an artist, but I was one when I was a kid because I like to draw swords and guns for whatever. I mean, I'm Gen X. Yeah. Schwarzenegger, all that stuff.
[00:24:51] And swords like, like he, man was the first character that I loved and stuff like that. But you know, so I would draw and, um, I had a modicum, modicum of talent, but people would tell me like, Oh, you're an artist. I'm like, Oh, okay. I'm guessing Mars. And the story that I tell in that the intro is I, I was in, I don't know how ubiquitous this is, but I know there's different states that have a gifted and talented program for kids. And I was in GT and I always felt like a fraud because I was like, I'm not, I'm not that smart.
[00:25:21] Like I don't, I don't really understand a lot of things to this day, you know? Yeah. But I was told I wasn't gifted and talented. So I was in it. And one of the assignments was we had to write a short story and I didn't know what to write. And I remember I wrote some story where I took, um, the names of Captain Kirk, uh, Dr. McCoy. And I don't think I use spot. I think I just used Kirk and McCoy.
[00:25:49] And, um, and I wrote, I don't remember what it was about, but I remember like turning it in. And at one point, like they called my mom in and I was like, Oh, they're about to reveal that. Like I'm a plate. I didn't know the word plagiarist at the age of, you know, eight, but they're going to really reveal I'm a plagiarist. They're going to tell it like, man, we've made a huge mistake. Your child is neither gifted nor talented. Um, he needs to leave immediately. Um, but they told my mom like, Oh no, your son's a writer. And then they told me that.
[00:26:17] And I was like, okay, I don't. Okay. Um, and I just, from then on, and there's been periods, you know, where I didn't write and I'm a photographer as well. So up until two years ago, I was focusing more on my photography and I'm not going to get into the details, but something went on in my work where I was just sitting around waiting to get fired. And I was like, I'm going to fall asleep if I sit in this chair all day long.
[00:26:43] So I started working on revive cause I, the, the earning my ears took me 17 years to write. Wow. Like I didn't start trying to write it immediately, but I always knew like, there's a story here. There's a lot of stories here, but there's a story here. Yeah. If I can figure out how to write it. And I even thought like, I even still think like if some, it'll never happen, but if some movie producer is just like, this would make a good movie and they found somebody else. Cause I can't reedit my own life.
[00:27:11] It, it's just, there's too much that I I'm, I'm too close to it to cut things out and characters out and or bridge things. But I was like, there's a story here. It took me 17 years to write. And when I was sitting there for months waiting to get fired essentially, which did happen. I was just like, well, I'm just going to take fans of time. So I started posting or this whole thing was originally posted on my website. Really? Eventually I was just like, people seem to respond to it. I know it's good.
[00:27:40] It does need more revisions, but like, I might as well just make this a book and self publishing is now an option. Yeah. I didn't know a lot about it, but I knew I could go to Amazon on KDP, which is how it's printed and, and print it out. So I, I, it took me another six months. Like after I got laid off, I couldn't find a job. So I was like, I would go to like coffee shops every day and write. And, uh, one of my best friends, uh, super, one of the most talented people in New Orleans, his name is Jack lock. Uh, I think it's like jack lock.net.
[00:28:09] Go find him J a K. Uh, but, um, he, he volunteered to edit for me. So he added it. Uh, there was one joke that he was like, even for you, man, this is pushing it. Um, there was one story that's not included that I was told like, dude, this was too mean and it's hilarious. And it's about one of the sister.
[00:28:36] We had sister roommates because we were in 36 11 and I think 36 06. We had a group of six girls that they were, they were our fellow roommates to a degree. And one of them was kind of a lunatic and it's about her, but her sister, her roommates hated her. And so one of them, my friend Heather was just like, no, fuck her. Tell me, tell the story. And I was just like, no, let me, let me cut this out of here. But, um, still a funny story, but it is mean. It's okay.
[00:29:04] It's, it's, it's fun to be mean sometimes. Believe me. I know no, no, no one, no one thinks I'm a nice guy. Uh, Travis is, is the good guy. I'm, I'm, I'm, uh, you're the other part of the game. Bad cop. I'm the bad cop. That's okay. That's, that's really fun though. And, um, so photography, writing, I think, um, a lot of artists do have several interests
[00:29:28] because as artists, we get bored, you know, and you have to kind of find the new thing. Have you ever thought about publishing art, uh, uh, photography book? So, um, so this is kind of a long story. I'll bridge it as much as possible. Are you familiar with jazz land or six flags, New Orleans? Yes. Okay.
[00:29:50] Um, up until April for the last two years, I was the assistant archival photographer for jazz. Oh, um, some of the stuff's out. A lot of it's not, uh, eventually it's going to be a documentary. My boss's name is Jason Lanier. He is one of the best photographers on the planet. Um, I say that very easily. He just is. Um, and what makes a good photographer? That's a really broad question.
[00:30:19] I think it's the same as any other artists vision, uh, determination and a little bit of talent. Cause like, so take, um, draw. Like if I went to school, like I have a little bit of talent, but like if I went to school, I could learn to be a good artist. Maybe, maybe AI is a better example. AI can create beautiful art, but it's always going to be how? Yeah. Um, cause there's no creative vision. It's just an algorithm.
[00:30:47] Or then I'm not talking trash about AI and all that, but it's just, it's just the reality. You can be a skilled artist and be amazing and never have an ounce of talent. But I don't know how much value there is in that commercially there. I mean, you know, if you're gonna be an architect or whatever, I think photography is the same or any other art. A you have to have drive like I have. So people will occasionally they'll mention my boss and me in the same breath.
[00:31:15] They'll be like, somebody messaged me a very nice guy. We're friends. He was just like, oh man, you and Jason's artists. So good. I was like, thank you. I was like, I'm not on that level. He's like, no, man. You're and I'm just like, dude, it's not. I'm bad at taking compliments, but it's also if you want to be great, you have to know where you are. I know where I am. I'm strictly in the middle. I have talent. I have some skill.
[00:31:38] I need a lot more work to make that skill what it needs to be, you know, and you don't want to have all talent, no skill. You don't want to have all skill, no talent. You want a nice mix of the two, preferably a little more talent than skill. Yeah. But I think you hit it on the head, too, because you can't be totally if you think that you can't have anything else to learn or you're the best at whatever you're doing, then I'm sorry. You're not going to you're not going to you're not going to make it. You can be a big fish in a small pond. Yeah.
[00:32:08] And I've seen a lot of that in New Orleans. There's a lot of that. For me, I don't know if I'll ever be a truly successful photographer. But my goal in life is because I love photography is to one day be able to say I'm a master photographer. Now, writer, I have a lot more talent. There's a lot more ability for me to express myself in a unique way. I'm a very singular human being.
[00:32:33] There is and it's not necessarily a good thing, but there is no one else like me, you know, so I can easily push that and express myself whether it's a book or a short story or, you know, because I'm also a gifted ori. I'm an extreme introvert, but I have no fear of public speaking. Yeah. If you I've always tell people it's a lady in the tiger thing. If you say, Adam, on the left is the door. You've never met this girl before, but she's the girl of your dreams.
[00:33:03] You just have to walk up to her behind the at the bar and chatter up on the right is a stage with 5000 people that you have to go entertain for an hour. I'll take the stage. Huh? The girl I know I'm I'm not going to know what to say. I'm going to say stupid things on the stage. I'm just like, just give me like 10 minutes. I'll be good. As long as I know what I'm talking about before I get on stage, I can go forever, you know?
[00:33:30] So I'm I'm a very talented storyteller, whether on the page or in real life. I've I've done stand up. I I don't do it seriously. I'm a weekend warrior specifically because I know who I am and I'm like, I if I worked really hard, I'd be an OK stand up. I would definitely get laughs, but I'd never be great. I'd never be like, oh, this guy needs a special or something like that.
[00:33:59] Yeah, it's tough. It's tough art form, too. Yeah. And I but I I also don't. I love comedy. It's probably the thing I love most. And that's part of the like the reason to read or any of my ears. Like, honestly, I I'm toot my own whore here for horn here. But it's a legit hilarious book. I mean, I'm going to order it as soon as we're done here. I would appreciate it. I'll do it. But the second book is the second book. I'm very proud of. And there's some true stories.
[00:34:28] Lies we tell ourselves in anthology. But it's not funny, except for one story called Dicks that I'm trying to write into a short film and make. But but yeah, I as a photographer, I love it and I want to be great at it. But whether or not become commercially successful, I don't know. I am. So a lot of this jazz land stuff is going to end up in a book.
[00:34:52] I don't know if it's going to be me working with Jason on his book or if I may publish a coffee table book at some point. I'm just getting to now because there's a lot of stuff that can't be revealed. And I guess I'm I'm I'm OK to talk about it, but not necessarily. I can't show anybody. I like I could show you in person, but I can't post it.
[00:35:19] I'm the blizzard that that in January that covered the United States. So in New Orleans, that was a literally once in 200 year blizzard. Oh, New Orleans. We get like maybe an inch of snow like out here in Colorado. Like that's nothing. Yeah. So Six Flags was covered. Jazzland was covered and it looked like Aspen. Oh, so I have photos from that that aren't coming out yet.
[00:35:47] But it has to be some sort of like hauntingly beautiful photos, though. That's the hard part as an artist. Like like, you know how like when you know, like, oh, man, this podcast is our best. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like if you were to be told, like, I can't post that for six months because the guest talked about something proprietary and asked me not to. It's going to kill you. Yeah, it happens. And yeah, I feel you. Yeah, for sure. That's what's going on with me where like I have photos. One of the photos.
[00:36:16] Jason told me multiple times. I'm jealous that you got that shot and I did because that's how photographers are. We see great. A great shot. We're like, oh, man, I want that shot. I want that shot. And so that's like Jordan telling you he likes your jump shot. Yeah. You know, so I and I've got other like the best work of my life. And I can't I can't show it. Yeah.
[00:36:43] You know, so it's hard, but it's going to come out sooner than later or sooner or later. Not I don't know about sooner than later. But but yeah, for now, I'm I'm really trying to get my writing out there. And just if anybody's out there thinking about self publishing, absolutely do it. However, I will warn people mistake I made was going strictly through KDP because I can't do signings at bookstores. Really?
[00:37:09] Yeah, because so out of curiosity, if I was to ask you, where do you think Barnes and Noble gets their stock from? Where would you think? I mean, I mean, it'd be it seems like it'd be Amazon, but I don't know. Well, so Barnes and Noble has a competitor website with Amazon. I assume that's where they got it from. Nope. Barnes and Noble does not get their stock from Barnes and Noble. They get it from IngramSpark. You can if you do IngramSpark or a couple of other services, you can get your books on
[00:37:39] Amazon at Barnes and Noble at small bookstores. Huh? If you don't, if you use KDP, what happens is when you go to bookstores and I went to local bookstores and I was like, oh, they're always talking about want to support local. Yeah. They're like, yeah. Unofficially, we don't like Amazon. Understandable. You're a retailer. Officially, if you want to bring some books, we'll take 40% of your cut.
[00:38:07] And whatever else, if you want to put it on consignment, we can do that. I would have to either jack up the price of my books massively. Yeah. Or I would basically be taking a loss because I'd only be making a dollar to per book. That's brutal. Well, I understand it from a business perspective. Yeah. You know, one of the best things my boss ever taught me, Jason, he said this because he does these lectures that are even if you're not a photographer worth, worth hearing there on YouTube.
[00:38:35] He said, he was telling a story about he would go to photography conventions and vendors like somebody that makes a type of lens or a flash or something like that would go to him like, Jason, we've got great news for you. Jason, we want to sponsor you. And he would look at them and go, that's great. What's in it for me? And they're like, what do you mean? We want to sponsor you. Yeah. Yeah. What's in it for me? And it sounds like a simple thing.
[00:39:02] But what he means is like, if you sponsor me, you're probably not giving me money. You're probably giving me equipment. If I endorse your equipment, A, it's got to be good because you're putting my reputation on the line. Yeah. It's got there. He doesn't take hardly any sponsorships. I don't know if he has any right now because that's a responsibility. There's a lot of people that have podcasts that you listen to where they're like right
[00:39:28] off the bat, like the ones that always annoyed at me as a podcaster are celebrities like no offense to Shaq, but Shaq had endorsements from day one. I'm like, dude, you don't even know if you can podcast. Yeah. And a lot of those people can't. I'm not saying Shaq, but a lot of those people. I agree. You know, it's not something you make money on. I mean, right. We coming here, we lose money. Speaking of which, can I tell you a quick story about it? Yeah. So I went to a book convention in Baton Rouge and it was a great idea.
[00:39:57] They're, they're just starting out. So they weren't, there wasn't enough marketing. So I didn't sell anything. But this guy comes up to me and he's like, so tell me about your book. And he said book singular and both books are there. One's a white cover. One's a black cover. I'm like, okay, strange. Um, so I tell him about it and he doesn't seem that interested. And, uh, then he starts telling me about his life. He's like, Oh, where are you from here? I'm like, no, I'm from New Orleans.
[00:40:27] He's like, Oh, uh, I went to New Orleans with my friends once. Like, Oh, okay, man. And he starts going on and on. And I'm like, holy shit. Are we really doing this? And it goes on for a while and he's like, but you know, like, oh, let's get down to business. So I have a podcast. I'm like, Oh, okay. Now I'm interested. Yeah. Um, and it's not cause I like to use people. I'm just like, I don't know what I'm getting out of this conversation. I don't want to be rude. I'm, I wasn't like, Hey man, can you fuck off? But I also like, dude, I don't, I don't know you.
[00:40:55] I don't want to know about you and your friends going for a low key bachelor party at the age of 50, like in New Orleans. Like I don't care. But, um, so he starts telling me about it. I'm like, okay. And I like, I'm talking to the guy. He you're a podcaster. You, when you meet other podcasts, you can tell right away, like this guy's podcast sucks. He can't talk breed, you know? And I'm not even no fucking fuck that guy. No, he, he couldn't talk.
[00:41:23] Like, and so like, he was cause like right off the bat, like, so if you're trying to pitch somebody on your show to come as, as a guest, you want to make conversation with them, which is what he was trying to do. But he's telling me boring stories about his life and I don't know him. Whereas I have two books in front of me and you have a book podcast. Why not start with like, Hey man. So you went to the, you've worked in Disney. I was like, Hey, there's such an opening there that he couldn't see. But I was just like, well, whatever, even if maybe I'll sell no books, probably.
[00:41:53] Maybe I'll sell one book. Fair enough. I'll do it. And again, uh, I can talk forever as you can see. It's okay. But the guy's like, he has me like write down my name on his, in his little notepad. I'm like, okay. He's like, can you put down your phone number? And I hate doing that email. Fine. Yeah. I don't want you to have my phone number. I was just like, you know what? In for a penny, in for a pound. I write down my phone number.
[00:42:15] So as soon as he writes that down, uh, he goes, uh, so, uh, just so you know, um, I have to charge you a dollar. Just like you, Blake. That's what happened to me. I was like, um, what? It's like, yeah, I was talking to my accountant and, uh, in order to file this on my taxes, I have to make money on it. So, um, if that's okay, I'm going to charge you a dollar. And I was like, no. And he goes, what?
[00:42:45] He blake. He blake. And he's like, what? I'm like, no, I'm not giving you money. Like, are you joking? He's like, well, why? I mean, everybody else did it. I was like, good for them. Yeah. They're there. I'm a self published author. I know the feeling. You want to feel special. A podcast was coming to you and like, Hey, I want to show off your work. That's exciting for some people. I've done podcasting. I know about podcasting. I know that you have no audience because you can't talk. I'm not giving you a penny. Yeah. Literally.
[00:43:13] If he charged me a penny, I'd have been like, no. And he had, he's like, well, I was like, dude, I podcasted for years. I was like, that's not how you make money. He's like, well, did you follow it on your taxes? I was like, no, because that's not how you do it. What you do is you become good. You build an audience and then you start looking at local sponsorships. That makes sense. And then if you're really good, you can get actual sponsorships. But you don't charge. You know, and the other thing was I thought about it later was like, dude, even if you're
[00:43:40] doing it the way you're doing it, you can lie to the government and say you made 50 bucks and you took a loss because that's what he's trying to do. Yeah. Trying to show a loss. Just lie. They're not going to look at your bank account. And, you know, honestly, so we did, we had a sponsorship and much like, you know, you were talking about, I got tired, honestly, of always pimping them out. And then, you know, I got 5% of the headphones they sold. And it just, at the end of the day, I said, you know what?
[00:44:09] So someone like you, you come on my show, I would never charge you because you're giving me content for free. Yes. Which you need for your podcast. Exactly. So if I put that on there and I get your fan or a Disney fan, and then they, it's just a trickle down effect. That's all I care about because I'm not a Conan O'Brien. I'm not smart list. I'm not Mark Maron. I'm not Joe Rogan. I don't do this for money. I do this for fun. It's a hobby. Um, but you're right.
[00:44:35] There is, there is, you have to be able to talk to people. And I mean, oh, and then Brad, to be the first to say this, the reason I do all the interviews is because I can. And Brad isn't like that. Brad does this stuff. Right. So we compliment each other because of that. And so, yeah, I mean, if I, I admire you. Cause like, I guess I podcasted and, uh, so my buddy Wayne still does it. Uh, metal hand to God podcast.
[00:45:02] Um, I walked away cause I stopped having fun, but the thing I hated and Wayne will probably hear this and he, but he's heard this from me anyway. But Wayne always had interviews and I hated interviews cause we mostly interviewed musicians. They have nothing to say. And I just like, so I started this thing where I would make up characters and do stupid voices, not for them, not for the show, but just to keep me awake. Yeah.
[00:45:25] Um, and I just, it's a hard, it's not just so you, I've been here long enough to know that you have some talent for interviewing. No, thank you. I don't, but you still need something on the other side. The worst thing about interviewing is when somebody comes on. And so like you could do a film show, like if, if you're interviewing a filmmaker and they're like, Oh, what are your influences? Oh, you know, Spielberg. I'm like, no, no, he's not. You just, you just really like Spielberg.
[00:45:54] I'll bet if I watch your stuff, it doesn't look like Spielberg, but you don't have anything to say about it. It's like, dude, you have to part of art is selling yourself. It's a big part. It is. You got to learn how to talk. You got to get on stage. Yeah. You're, you're right. I mean, we, we did our, uh, we had a panel this week. And you know, the best compliment we got when we were doing it, this guy came up afterwards and says, you guys talk like so easily to people. And how do you do that?
[00:46:21] And I don't have an answer for that because I don't know how to quantify or vocalize how to connect with people. It's just something you do. I don't know. I think it's confidence. No. Yeah. I mean, like I said, when I get up on stage, as long as I know what I'm talking about, I know I'm good. Yeah. If I don't know what I'm talking about, if you put me on stage, like if you just threw me up there and I had nothing to say, I'm going to choke. Yeah.
[00:46:49] But like, if you're doing a panel, cause I know you said y'all do a lot of panels. Presumably they put you on panels that you know something about. Yeah. Sometimes. Sometimes. Well, or maybe you do 15 minutes of research on the person that's on the panel. Yeah. It's funny. Not to make it about me, but you know, before this became really corporate and was, you know, Fan Expo, it was Denver Comic Con, then Denver Pop Culture Con. Right.
[00:47:17] And I was their go-to moderator because the first year I was out here, I moderated a panel with James Marsters and they really liked me because he did two panels and the first one, the moderator interjected himself into it. And it's not about me. It is not about me at all. I always find the people. I say, Hey, what do you want to talk about today? What do you not want to talk about today? Let's go from that. And it is a confidence thing because they literally used to come up to me and say, Hey, our moderator canceled on this X-Men panel.
[00:47:46] Can you do it? I'm not the biggest X-Men fan, but I'm a comic book fan and I can fake it. And so, you know, I go, Oh man, I love Cyclops. And people say, You like Cyclops? He sucks. And then I'm done. I'm done with what I just did. Well, they don't do that now because now that the show came out, now all of a sudden everybody's a Cyclops fan. Yeah. I'm like, and by the way, Cyclops is one of my top five favorite characters. So it kind of pisses me off. Not in like a, I learned the band. I like the band first kind of way, but just like, dude, all I ever heard was Cyclops sucks.
[00:48:15] Now you watch a cartoon and he's awesome. Yeah. I feel you on that because it's, it is, it is cool. But I do want to tell you that when you do have Travis on again, ask him about the panel he did. I want to say it was here last year. Maybe it's the same guy. He had a moderator at an indie comics panel that was a comic book creator.
[00:48:41] And he said like the whole time, the guy was just, maybe it was a fan expert in New Orleans. The whole time, the guy just talked like basically was acting like he should have been on the panel. Yeah. And you can't do that. If people are listening to this, some advice from you with writing, just do it. And advice for me, if you want to do a podcast or you want to do panels, you're right. It's a confidence thing. Just go up there and do it. Like I can't really quantify it, but yeah, it don't interject yourself into it. It's not about you.
[00:49:09] And when you do it that way, the people notice the people that run the stuff notice because I mean, I was doing stuff. I had no business doing. I'm not a power Rangers fan. I did their 20th anniversary with like 5,000 people. Like what am I doing in there? I remember watching power Rangers when it first came out and I knew and I mean the pink rangers in there. So I was totally down with it, but I don't know. You said you're 43, right? Yeah. So you were kind of on the age where you, it was still cool. Yeah. I'm a little, I'm going to be 46.
[00:49:39] So like I remember my little brother was in the power Rangers. He's three years younger than you. And the whole time I was just like, suck man. This was just Voltron for kids. Totally. I felt the same thing. I have a younger brother who's 10 years younger than me. So he was really into it. Uh huh. And I remember seeing the movie in the theater and go, man, this is a piece of shit. But when I get picked to do a panel for 20th anniversary, I don't say that. I go up and I, you know, and you, you can read your panelists as well. Just like you.
[00:50:10] I know if I asked you a question, you're actually gonna give me a lot to go on because obviously you've been interviewed before. Um, but there's sometimes I've done them and you, you got, it's pulling teeth with the people. But other times, I mean, with the power Rangers, those people have probably been on panels for 15 years. The early ones. The early ones. Well, I'm sure all of them do, but there's such a machine about power Rangers that they all have like horror stories.
[00:50:37] And the ones I've met, I mean, again, I've, I've seen episodes of power Rangers at this point as an adult. I was like, okay, it's kind of, it's a little watch. It's a little watch. Oh, is that? Yeah. Uh, it's a little watchable, but like, they all seem like good people. Yeah. You know, I, you know, I don't, I've done panels with so many celebrities. I have, there's only one that I won't shame on here, but there's one that is please do. Okay.
[00:51:05] So it is Wil Wheaton and I can't say Wil Wheaton. So we're good. So I had a panel. I'm a Star Trek guy. So yeah. Yeah. So I had a panel with him and Felicia, Felicia Day. Thank you. So Felicia Day, like I said before, I like to go about 15 minutes early, talk to him, blah, blah, blah. I go there. Felicia's there. Wonderful person. Super nice. Very, you know, I just said, Hey, what do you want to do? She says, Oh, we got this. If you just introduce us, we'll take it.
[00:51:35] I said, perfect. That's what you want me to do. I'm totally down. I'll just watch the time. Right. And it was in here and it was in the main ballroom. So it's like 2,500 tons of people. So Wheaton comes in about a minute before it's supposed to start. I asked him these same questions. I asked Felicia and he looks at me and says, well, I don't know, dude, is everybody in here yet? I said, man, I'm just asking what you want to talk about.
[00:52:02] And then at the end of the panel, I saw the guy in the back held up a two, two minutes. There's a timer there that says a minute 50 something. So a kid comes up. I says, Hey man, I know I was had a lot of fun. We got time for one more question. He goes, you don't get to do that, bro. I said, cool, man. So I just let him run with it. At the end of the panel, Felicia Day comes up, hugs me, thanks me, says you're wonderful. He just like takes off. He goes, man.
[00:52:31] And it's just, he's the only one who has ever been like that. And it's a bummer. I can't stand Wil Wheaton, but I will give him at least this one thing. You never know what kind of day somebody's having. So if you've only met him once, even don't get me wrong. That doesn't excuse his behavior towards you. No, no, I, but, but I do, you know, I, my main thing is like Hollywood has decided that, you know, like y'all are real nerds.
[00:53:01] How they would have decided that if you need a geek, it's Wil Wheaton, Patton Oswalt and Kevin Smith. Those are the representatives for millions of people. I don't relate to any of those people. Yeah. And maybe a little bit to early Kevin Smith, but you know, and I, I think Patton Oswalt is a great actor. I don't want him representing me. And it's just seems like, well, we can kind of.
[00:53:31] I feel you on that. You're a hundred percent right. And, but you know, it's cool. I, if I met him again, I'd still be cool with him. I mean, maybe he was having a bad day. Not from what I've heard, but you know, it's cool. I'm not surprised. Yeah. He just seems like that kind of dude. Yeah. And I don't even hate Wesley Crusher. You know? And I mean, just him. It's just, I, I, it's the real guy. It's just, yeah. Maybe it's not bad. It's cool. If I ever get picked to do again, I'll be more than happy to go up there. Say two lines, let him take over.
[00:54:00] Cause again, he is a professional and he and Felicia ran that panel. I literally did nothing. It was the easiest panel I've ever done. I think it says a lot about will Wheaton that cause like I watched season three of Picard. I watched the first episode of season one and I was like, no, we're good. Heard about season two. I'm like political allegory. No, we're good. But season three, everybody said was bananas and I watched it. And so will Wheaton did an interview after every episode, I think it was called like talking track or something like that.
[00:54:29] I was like a lot that, that will Wheaton wasn't like, was the crusher. Wasn't included in this. He's just like doing the interviews afterwards. I was like, I just really want to say, I loved you and stand by me, man. Yeah. That's all I know you for. Thanks for stopping by. I probably took way too much of your time. You did not, but one real quick question. Absolutely. So y'all do film review stuff, right? We do. Have y'all done wrath of Khan?
[00:54:58] Let me think. Possibly. So I was, I got into the star Trek late. Brad is a huge star Trek guy. He introduced me. The first one I saw was star Trek six, which he, great film. Probably not the best one to start with, but I watch it. I thought it was good. Then I watched for, I thought it was brilliant. Yeah. And then I, weird that you watched it out of context. Yeah.
[00:55:28] So I still a good film. I, I went back and then I watched the first one and Brad preparedness is, you know, some people think it's boring. I thought it was a beautiful film. I really did. I loved it. It's, it's a star Trek as it gets for, for TLS. Yeah. It is, it's beautiful. And then, I mean, the second film is one of my most favorite films ever. I, it shattered my expectations of what I thought William Shatner was and that what star Trek could be.
[00:55:57] Well, it actually did that for the entirety of star Trek. But now I'm asking just because like, I'm, like I said, I'm a big Trek. I'm more of a deep space, not God, but no, if you ever looking for somebody to talk about We totally will. Cause I don't think we've done it. I know we did a commentary by first time watching it during six. So it's a really boring commentary. But, um, if we do a wrath of con, which I would totally be down with, we will hit you up and, uh, I'm a hundred percent.
[00:56:27] And it'd be awesome to have you on. You might have to cut me off at some point though. Dude, never. That's great about podcast too. I don't have a set limit. I didn't go on forever. But before you get out of here, tell people where they can buy your book, where they can find you and all that jazz. So, uh, the two easiest ways to find me are, uh, Santino art.com, which is my website. And right when you go to the landing page, like buy my book is, there's a little tag.
[00:56:52] Um, but the place that I'm most active is, uh, Instagram and it's Santino dot imagery. Perfect. Santino dot imagery. So, so thank you so much. And coming by twice. Uh, sorry about the mishap on the first one. Dude, things happen. Yeah. But it was awesome. You've heard me. I never stopped talking. So I love it. I love it. Thanks. Thanks for the free content. Now, if I could have a dollar please, before you get out of here. All right. For you.
[00:57:21] Like, I think I could pull one. My man. You didn't, you didn't bore me. All right. Thanks for listening to real nerds podcast, a nebulous visions production stream, or download episodes,
[00:57:47] read articles at real nerds, podcast.com stream us on Apple or Google podcast, Stitcher, Spotify, or I heart radio. Follow us on Facebook. Real nerds podcast, Twitter, and Instagram at real nerds. Watch us on YouTube. Real nerds podcast. Email us at real nerds at gmail.com. Call us at seven, two, zero six nerds five.
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