Rebuild & Reorganize

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[00:01:48] Without further ado, my friends, we are going to go ahead and dive right in.

[00:02:01] On that note, ladies and gents, Mike, what's going on, man? Appreciate you joining.

[00:02:09] Hey, it's good to be here.

[00:02:11] When do I not like to be online and spouting off?

[00:02:15] Yeah, talking, you got a great skill for it.

[00:02:19] And your skill sets being in business as many years as you have.

[00:02:24] And I learned a lot from you just from our conversation the other day.

[00:02:29] So, I'm grateful to have you here.

[00:02:31] I'm excited to share with everybody.

[00:02:34] I think it's a good way to get started.

[00:02:37] Give us a bit of background.

[00:02:39] Where are you from?

[00:02:41] What was your childhood like and what led you to becoming the entrepreneur that you are today?

[00:02:46] Yes, childhood.

[00:02:48] Such a traumatic thing.

[00:02:50] Actually, it wasn't.

[00:02:52] Most of my childhood in Ohio, Dayton, Ohio, Centerville, Ohio,

[00:02:57] went to two years of high school there and then got shipped off with the rest of my family to Miami, Florida.

[00:03:05] It's a little bit of a different experience.

[00:03:07] And Florida is, I ended up going to University of Florida.

[00:03:13] And after that went to Vanderbilt for law school and was a lawyer for almost 12 years.

[00:03:21] I did bankruptcy litigation, corporate reorg stuff and moved around a bit.

[00:03:28] I practiced in Dallas, then Chicago, then Columbus before I realized that I was moving because I didn't like practicing law.

[00:03:40] So in my mind, I was like, I don't like this firm.

[00:03:43] I think I'll try something new.

[00:03:45] And it occurred to me, it should have occurred to be in law school.

[00:03:52] Because when I was in law school, I was running the Law School Cafe.

[00:03:59] I started the Law School's first year book.

[00:04:01] I had a t-shirt business and I was writing a humor newsletter for the school.

[00:04:08] And right there, it just didn't hit me.

[00:04:13] But when your mom says, are you going to be a doctor or a lawyer?

[00:04:18] You don't have any choice.

[00:04:20] So I kept going.

[00:04:44] Click the link in the episode description for an exclusive offer.

[00:04:51] So your parents influenced you into the law practice?

[00:04:57] Well, not directly.

[00:04:59] Did you have a pretty big passion for it?

[00:05:01] No.

[00:05:03] Let me first say that my mother does not talk like that.

[00:05:07] And she is a therapist, a very cunning woman.

[00:05:10] And she said, I remember it was senior year.

[00:05:15] And I'm like a semester away from graduating.

[00:05:19] And I knew I didn't want to be one of those rat jobber guys,

[00:05:22] you know, to go and replenish Frito Lays at the end cap in the safe way.

[00:05:27] And that's what all my buddies were doing.

[00:05:29] And I'm talking to my mom and she says, well, why don't you do what you're good at?

[00:05:34] And I had been competing in speech four years in high school, four years in college.

[00:05:40] And you know, nationally ranked and all that.

[00:05:43] So she said, why don't you put that to good work?

[00:05:46] So it was more like a practical thing.

[00:05:49] It's like when you meet somebody and they look good on paper and you're like, yeah,

[00:05:54] I think I'll get married to that person.

[00:05:56] Then you figure out like 12 years in, maybe not.

[00:06:01] Well, that's like law was interesting.

[00:06:04] And I feel like it applies so well if you're going to be an entrepreneur and be in business and like any side of business.

[00:06:12] I wish I had the had the attention span to go to like do law school or something like that.

[00:06:18] But it's amazing how much it applies in so many different areas and gives you such a laid up.

[00:06:26] I mean, it's no wonder you've been as successful as you are.

[00:06:29] And I a lot of entrepreneurs who I've talked to actually have some found who have been really successful have some foundation law background.

[00:06:40] And for as much as I make fun, I would do it all over again the same way.

[00:06:46] The years in the law were super instructive and it's not law school that law school teaches you how to think and have a research.

[00:06:55] And how to write.

[00:06:57] And then the practice of law teaches you the dynamic of dealing with people who are really pains in the ass on the other side of the table.

[00:07:05] And at least in bankruptcy and reorganization, the goal is to take people at loggerheads and come out with a resolution, a reorganization plan, make something out of nothing.

[00:07:16] And so quite remarkably, so it's amazingly applicable to business, not only from what you learn, you know, you learn factoring and credit this and retail that you learn a whole bunch of stuff.

[00:07:33] But it's that art of dealing with people so that you can get deals done.

[00:07:39] And when you're an entrepreneur, especially when you're starting at the bottom where you don't have funding and your bootstrapping everything, you've got to go in and persuade people.

[00:07:51] And not only through the your oral presentation but through the written word, you have to do it effectively.

[00:07:57] And then you have to not be so enamored with whom you're dealing that that you give away the farm that you can effectively negotiate and you learn all these things.

[00:08:10] Like to attach to an outcome, you mean?

[00:08:12] Yeah, yeah.

[00:08:13] Or or or you your you'll you'll just deal a bad deal in order to say that I have a relationship with this bank or this partner.

[00:08:24] And and there's a balance.

[00:08:26] And I do think that, you know, for me anyway, 12 years in the practice with large clients, it teaches me that they're just humans on the other side of the table.

[00:08:37] They're not necessarily better than me.

[00:08:40] They might get paid five times as much.

[00:08:42] But they're just people trying to make decisions and not get their asses in trouble by making bad decisions.

[00:08:49] And I always liken it to this.

[00:08:52] When you're a kid, if you ever played sports as a kid, whenever the other team came out on the field, there was always a shrinking like, oh, damn, they look really intimidating.

[00:09:02] And it didn't matter how good or bad they were.

[00:09:05] Now sure, after the first five minutes of the game, you might be able to start to see that intimidation.

[00:09:10] You can't let that get you in your negotiations and in your dealings with the other side, especially as an entrepreneur.

[00:09:19] You're usually David and you're trying to deal with Goliath.

[00:09:23] And and so that's just a jump in there.

[00:09:28] Do you still feel that way at some point, even at this level, the stage in your career?

[00:09:33] Do you still get that feeling sometimes?

[00:09:36] I have a few times.

[00:09:39] It doesn't.

[00:09:40] All it does is amp me.

[00:09:43] So in 2007, I had a startup called Kango, KAA NGO.

[00:09:50] And it was a syndicated newspaper classified ad platform.

[00:09:55] And we sold it to media news group who was based here and Hearst, obviously in New York.

[00:10:05] And when I pitched it, it was fine.

[00:10:09] I, you know, that was but when we were closing the deal and I went to New York and they took us to the top of Hearst Tower and they had waiters come in and serve dinner.

[00:10:20] Then I was like, oh, okay, wow, you know, this is the real deal.

[00:10:25] And you do feel like, all right, I, you know, we need to step up right now.

[00:10:31] But was never, I didn't feel intimidated by them.

[00:10:37] I felt like I'm going to show them what I've got if they like it.

[00:10:42] Here we are.

[00:10:43] Let's do it.

[00:10:44] And, you know, we, we just, you know, I just went on my way and treated them as I would with other partners.

[00:10:52] And I had sold a company to Microsoft and Ford before that.

[00:10:57] And that helped.

[00:10:58] That was, that was nerve wracking.

[00:11:01] So that was back when Steve Ballmer was running Microsoft and is not the guy that reported to him was doing the deal with me.

[00:11:09] And so you go into Redmond and you sit in a room and with all these with their lawyers and their, and their, you know, their corporate execs.

[00:11:19] And you do feel it.

[00:11:21] You do feel it because they've got the leverage and they're so big that you just don't want to screw up.

[00:11:27] So again, you know, it, but, but, and so yeah, that just to get back to your question, it gets you, you're like, okay, okay, I got the big one here.

[00:11:36] Because you bring that home.

[00:11:38] Well, some people take that and it's a fear thing.

[00:11:41] And then the fear keeps them from something like mile high mentors, for example, someone might be intimidated.

[00:11:48] To get into contact with someone like you or someone else who they see as kind of that goliath and it scares them.

[00:11:55] I remember playing football in high school.

[00:11:57] Actually, it's funny you brought that up.

[00:11:59] And it was exactly that you walk out to the team and you see the other team and it doesn't matter what the record is anything.

[00:12:05] It's that oh shit moment.

[00:12:07] And it's like that so much in business, especially when you're just getting started as a professional young professional as an entrepreneur.

[00:12:14] So it's always interesting to hear, you know, seasoned veteran entrepreneurs perspective on that.

[00:12:19] And you know what?

[00:12:20] I've always made the cold call.

[00:12:22] So we got Microsoft because I made a cold call.

[00:12:25] Really?

[00:12:26] Yeah, we got hers because I just went in off a white paper that I had done and I said, let me come down and show you what we have.

[00:12:35] And I've always gone for the bigger clients first because why not?

[00:12:42] If you have a good story to tell, tell the story.

[00:12:46] The worst that can happen is no thanks.

[00:12:49] Wells Fargo was another example where I had an auto product very early on in the days of the Internet back in the late 90s.

[00:12:58] And you know, we went to Wells Fargo and said, look, we've got something different here.

[00:13:04] Do you want to hear us GE capital?

[00:13:06] Same thing.

[00:13:07] And you'll get your share of nose.

[00:13:09] But in the process, you will learn what questions they're asking, what they care about, how they view the market.

[00:13:15] So I don't, you know, goes back to dating.

[00:13:20] You're going to walk up and put the line out there or not.

[00:13:24] And you know, you, what is Wayne Britsky?

[00:13:27] You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

[00:13:30] So yeah, it's true.

[00:13:33] It's something I think of constantly is that regret is more painful than taking that shot and, you know, being let down.

[00:13:45] I think like I would encourage anybody to take that shot that seems so intimidating and then get to the other side of it.

[00:13:51] And it's really, it's not like I used to get so nervous before I do a podcast or talk to someone or do anything like that.

[00:13:58] So it just, and it becomes a habit at some point too, right?

[00:14:02] Like making that cold call would suck.

[00:14:04] But then it's just eventually it's like brushing your teeth.

[00:14:07] But if you've waited till your product or service is to a point where you're proud of it, then you should have no trouble.

[00:14:17] In fact, you should want to show the world what you have.

[00:14:21] I think a lot of people come out prematurely.

[00:14:24] Their product lacks polish.

[00:14:27] Maybe it doesn't execute as well.

[00:14:31] And so that would make me nervous, right?

[00:14:35] If I were going into the game not prepared.

[00:14:39] So you have to figure out why you're hesitant to go to bat and you get one chance of course, you know that.

[00:14:48] And you get about five minutes.

[00:14:51] And if you could, and now it's much harder than it was just 10 years ago.

[00:14:56] People executives get bombarded.

[00:14:59] Why is your LinkedIn in message special?

[00:15:03] Why are they going to look at it?

[00:15:05] And if they look at it in a paragraph or two, can you please not come off salesy?

[00:15:11] Can you assert a little bit of confidence and, you know, and not do any of the stupid tricks that I get every day from people?

[00:15:21] And it's just got phone, email, no matter the channel.

[00:15:25] I think people get too close to their own stuff and then it becomes about them.

[00:15:31] Like I get DMs constantly from people like, hey, Connor, can you do this for me?

[00:15:35] And it's all an ask and ask and ask and there's no, you know, hey, I saw you're doing this.

[00:15:40] I might be able to help you with this.

[00:15:42] And oh, by the way, do you think you could do this for me in exchange?

[00:15:47] And I, it's interesting.

[00:15:50] I am a admissions screener for Vanderbilt Law School still.

[00:15:55] And when the kids come to me and I do like a little fake interview with them, I say, yeah, all right, look, you know, why do you want to come to Vanderbilt?

[00:16:05] And they'll say things like, I'm so passionate about this and I'm this and I'm that.

[00:16:13] And then I say, I reframe it for them.

[00:16:15] I said, imagine that Vanderbilt is in the market to buy product and you're the product.

[00:16:22] You need to tell Vanderbilt why you are enhancing Vanderbilt's roster of kids, how when you get out, you will end up, you'll bring money or business or attention back to Vanderbilt in a positive way.

[00:16:36] And that while you're there, you will contribute to the environment so that other students say that Vanderbilt was a great experience.

[00:16:42] So it's the same thing with these partnerships.

[00:16:46] If you go in and it's I, I, we, we, and you know, all of what we can do usually to me, I mean, that's a sales pitch.

[00:16:54] And people are, I think, programmed to say, not now, not now, but find why you're important to them and then articulate that in the first instance so that they see as a benefit to them.

[00:17:11] And it's okay that it benefits you too.

[00:17:13] And I will always use language like, I think there's something mutually beneficial here.

[00:17:19] I think this is interesting.

[00:17:21] I think it's worth a chat and I don't make it a big deal.

[00:17:25] And hey, you want to discuss this love to have the discussion with you.

[00:17:29] This is what I was thinking and I'm not vague.

[00:17:32] I'll put it out there.

[00:17:33] What I was thinking was you have this service, we have this service and whether strategic or arms length.

[00:17:41] I think the services could multiply our revenue opportunities.

[00:17:45] If this is interesting to you, let's talk now easy for me to say I'm old AF, you know, I've been around and so and I'm also in a position with the company where we've got enough clients to, you know,

[00:18:01] oh, this guy's real and you know, they can look at my background.

[00:18:04] But when you're first starting out and you don't have that, you have to earn, you know, those, those notches as you go up the chain.

[00:18:12] But damn well act like you've already got them when you're just starting out.

[00:18:18] And what I think is interesting is learning from someone like you is you could probably lose everything you have and go back and rebuild it.

[00:18:29] Like would you agree with that?

[00:18:31] Go back and rebuild or start a business, another company from scratch and be able to do it 10, 20, 30 times quicker than the first time you did it because you have that experience, because you have that knowledge.

[00:18:45] Oh quite so.

[00:18:47] And I have done that.

[00:18:48] I mean, I there's like seven companies which is a byproduct of mild ADD, non prescription medicine.

[00:18:56] Bill, Phil Lockwood says what's up by the way.

[00:18:59] Well, it's is the master total badass.

[00:19:03] I have to agree with you.

[00:19:04] It's pretty cool cat so far.

[00:19:05] They should like that.

[00:19:07] Yeah.

[00:19:09] Endorsement.

[00:19:10] So

[00:19:12] well, look at it.

[00:19:13] We're talking about.

[00:19:14] So let's shift momentum a little bit here.

[00:19:17] You're talking a little bit about some wins.

[00:19:19] What are some of the what are some of the failures that you've had in building what you have today?

[00:19:27] Well, you know the classic answer is we'll define failure.

[00:19:31] Yeah.

[00:19:32] Well, falling flat on your face or on your butt is failure and it's okay, but it happens and one of the ones failures that I've had.

[00:19:47] Can I rephrase that a little bit?

[00:19:49] Yeah, go ahead.

[00:19:50] In hindsight, if you were to go back 20, 30 years to a younger you, what would you maybe do differently in your life?

[00:20:02] Nothing.

[00:20:06] I, oh, um, may I might not have hung around in the law as long as I did.

[00:20:17] I didn't have self-awareness at the time and right now a days, I think young people will switch tracks much faster than when I was around.

[00:20:31] I was risk a verse when I started.

[00:20:34] So if you if I had to change anything, I might, I might accelerate that but I have to say and I'm not trying to sound like a shit head.

[00:20:44] I don't regret any choice that I made.

[00:20:48] When I was ready to leave the law, I did.

[00:20:51] I made a transition into a company which is an interesting story in and of itself and because to come out of the law and go into technology was like a what are you doing?

[00:21:03] Do you want to be in house counsel?

[00:21:05] You know, and so it was really difficult to go out take a pay cut and really grind it.

[00:21:11] And that path, I would do the same.

[00:21:15] I've had some businesses that I've started one in particular.

[00:21:21] I was stopped the junk mail dot com and it was a business where you could go online and pick out the catalogs and crap that you get in the mail and stop it and then elect the ones you wanted to keep.

[00:21:36] And it was designed to save trees and we partnered with the American Forest Association.

[00:21:41] I think that's what they recall.

[00:21:43] And it was starting to go and I saw that I didn't, I didn't do my research in the beginning to understand how I could get the commitments or the software frankly to automate like through an API, the subscription stopping and starting.

[00:22:01] And I don't think the companies were ready to do that the company, the catalogers, you know, of all the catalogs you get.

[00:22:08] I know, you know, you could check off and still get your Victoria's secret and it would be fine.

[00:22:13] I got it. So get my Victoria's secret.

[00:22:15] That's right.

[00:22:16] I mean, it's still good.

[00:22:18] So so that was, I didn't do homework on that one.

[00:22:22] I just started it because I was mad.

[00:22:25] I was like, and then I just go off on a tear.

[00:22:29] And so, you know, you can you can run into that you will.

[00:22:34] And that's one example of how you get in trouble where you're so in love with your idea that you didn't get the business model right.

[00:22:46] Another one I did was a digital magazine in 2012.

[00:22:50] Again, my passion, my hobby radio control flying.

[00:22:53] I started a magazine called RC pilot purely on tablet.

[00:22:57] Nobody was doing it.

[00:22:58] All right.

[00:22:59] The execution was phenomenal.

[00:23:02] It's not just me saying this.

[00:23:03] The president of Hearst magazine said this is one of the best magazines I've ever seen.

[00:23:08] And it was truly interactive in 2012.

[00:23:12] What did Cranits ignore?

[00:23:14] Most of the guys in the hobby were over 60.

[00:23:17] And they wanted a paper magazine to take to the bathroom and roll up and give to their friends.

[00:23:23] Because I was so, I was so into the future that I was going to make the coolest magazine ever.

[00:23:30] And I didn't take into account that even the subscribers would forget to read by next month's issue because they weren't paying attention.

[00:23:38] And then the app store was going to take a third.

[00:23:41] And there were a lot of things.

[00:23:42] I was seven months into a $30,000 a month production schedule.

[00:23:48] Okay.

[00:23:49] That I was, we were going all over the country with film crews doing really in depth stuff.

[00:23:55] You know, it was like a television show.

[00:23:57] It was like a news magazine on TV.

[00:23:59] And then my father said to me who's been an entrepreneur, who's been entrepreneur all his self-employed his entire life.

[00:24:07] He said, when are you going to cry uncle?

[00:24:12] And that's all he had to say.

[00:24:14] He didn't have to tell me what was wrong.

[00:24:16] He said, when are you going to cry uncle?

[00:24:18] And I remember going, wow, I'm a quarter million to this thing and it ain't working.

[00:24:24] It looks nice.

[00:24:25] People love it, you know, but it doesn't work and the market's too small radio control flying.

[00:24:32] So, so those are some failures.

[00:24:34] And all of those could have been obviated had I put aside my passion for what I was doing and really looked at the business and framed it out and done a plan and even some light forecasting.

[00:24:48] I don't think you need to go all MBA and do a, you know, 20 tab spreadsheet to forecast it until you're further down the line.

[00:24:56] But those were my errors.

[00:24:58] And also let's frame this for a second, for the audience.

[00:25:03] I've toiled in the niches for all of my deals.

[00:25:09] The event management is the first one that, well, automobiles weren't a niche either.

[00:25:13] But, but I a lot of my businesses, I've been able to start do the coding myself, do the marketing, do the legal work, the contracts and negotiation, everything and incur very little expense upfront.

[00:25:28] So that's why I've kind of gone off crazy and done some of this stuff for other businesses.

[00:25:37] Like the, the radio control community that I co founded with a partner back in 2001.

[00:25:47] And the automotive pieces that I did some math.

[00:25:52] I mean, I did, I looked at the numbers I saw what I could make.

[00:25:56] And, and I had a plan going forward and those

[00:25:59] mostly in the niche niches, niches, the niches.

[00:26:05] Is that a good thing?

[00:26:07] Or if you to go back and start it again or having a company that's a little more can apply to many different industries.

[00:26:15] Well, you can do a pivot, which is what what we did with events with events would start it out as RC flight deck.

[00:26:23] What is RC flight deck.

[00:26:25] My passion again, it was an event.

[00:26:28] It's an event management platform for radio control hobby guys here I am again banging my head against that wall.

[00:26:36] But what happened was RC led to archery and archery led to bodybuilding and bodybuilding to golf to fitness, you know, and on and on.

[00:26:47] And now we had a suite of these sites.

[00:26:50] And then the corporate people came calling and then we switched tracks and went to corporate and that's what this business serves.

[00:26:58] And we have some very large clients, very prominent clients and, and that started as a niche hobby trial balloon companion to that magazine I was telling you about.

[00:27:11] This was the event platform that went into the magazine.

[00:27:14] And when the magazine dropped, I went full hog on the on the event management side and built it for years by myself until we got the uptake.

[00:27:26] So that's an example of starting in a niche and then, you know, funneling reverse funneling out to a larger market in automobiles back in the late 90s.

[00:27:41] I started out in leasing, which at the time was an arcane.

[00:27:45] Nobody understood leases.

[00:27:47] It was black magic auto leases were huge, but there weren't disclosure laws.

[00:27:52] The current contract you get now was passed.

[00:27:55] I think Reg M was passed in the late 90s.

[00:27:59] That wasn't even out yet.

[00:28:00] I couldn't find a book on auto leasing close leases like apartment leases auto leases, auto leases.

[00:28:10] Oh, automobiles.

[00:28:11] Automobiles.

[00:28:12] God, I got it.

[00:28:13] Got it.

[00:28:14] Right.

[00:28:15] So to me that's a niche within a giant industry.

[00:28:18] Yeah.

[00:28:19] Okay.

[00:28:20] And it was almost a third of the financial transactions in auto buying and well, it became that.

[00:28:27] And so that I pivoted auto leasing to or grew it into auto buying.

[00:28:33] That's the business that Microsoft acquired.

[00:28:36] And that's an example of maybe starting small and I started with a book and a piece of software

[00:28:41] that helped you write auto leases.

[00:28:44] And that story, even as I look back on it, I was up, I was practicing law.

[00:28:51] I was up until 3am writing and my wife, Abby said, what are you doing?

[00:28:58] I said, I'm writing a book on leasing.

[00:29:00] Why?

[00:29:01] I don't know why.

[00:29:04] So I'm writing the book.

[00:29:06] I go out, I harvest every lease contract from every vehicle manufacturer and I digest them

[00:29:13] all.

[00:29:14] So this is the lawyer part of me going through each contract and I make this grid and then

[00:29:18] in HTML, I make a tool where you could look up your Ford Motor Credit, Honda credit

[00:29:24] and you could see in English what they were doing in the lease.

[00:29:28] So I started building these tools and then I built software as a companion to the book

[00:29:34] to help people figure out their auto leases and still a lawyer.

[00:29:39] Okay?

[00:29:40] So now I have this little product and I had a local company that was making CDs or

[00:29:46] discs for AOL.

[00:29:48] I don't know if you remember, you probably don't remember this.

[00:29:50] Back in the day, you'd get bombed in the mail with these AOL, join AOL and

[00:29:55] you'd put a CD in your computer and you know, you have that.

[00:30:01] And with the book and software, I literally had a notebook of every major magazine, the

[00:30:11] editors, I wrote letters, I made phone calls and motor trend.

[00:30:16] One magazine, one editor picked it up.

[00:30:20] How many do you think you sent out?

[00:30:22] I sent out 150 letters and this was back when you did letters.

[00:30:28] Yeah.

[00:30:29] I mean, late 90s email was not the mode of communication.

[00:30:34] I was on the phone, had my little notebook and draw a line through callback, voicemail,

[00:30:39] whatever.

[00:30:40] Not to deter too much but it's interesting where we're at in the modern world now

[00:30:47] is I wonder going back, if we're almost more impactful because that was the medium

[00:30:53] that we had and people were going to jump and read it and consume it at least and

[00:30:58] take thought into it versus now the bombardment of communications, mail,

[00:31:04] email, text message.

[00:31:06] It's too much.

[00:31:07] It's almost like I wonder if it's actually harder to break through now

[00:31:11] than it actually would be starting a business 20 years ago.

[00:31:16] What's interesting is I think about it and I think about all the magazines that

[00:31:20] didn't respond and because they were so inaccessible,

[00:31:25] that was a different barrier.

[00:31:27] And now the barrier is hyperaccessibility and flooding like you said.

[00:31:33] And so I don't know actually and the other thing that's become the norm

[00:31:39] is you can get a tip from anyone.

[00:31:42] So if you're a magazine or digital magazine, you might listen to that random,

[00:31:46] oh I got an email from somebody who says they because maybe that's valuable.

[00:31:51] So I don't know the answer to that one.

[00:31:54] I can just tell you that it was a slog.

[00:31:58] It was and I mean I'm talking about three and a half inch floppy disks,

[00:32:04] packaging them in little envelopes and putting an Avery label on

[00:32:08] and mailing them out for 35 bucks a piece for software.

[00:32:11] And you know and on it goes.

[00:32:14] So what happened with that opportunity?

[00:32:17] So Motor Trend picks it up and I start to sell these, the software

[00:32:26] and I have this company making the box.

[00:32:29] We used to have software in a box.

[00:32:30] Let's put electrons in a cardboard box.

[00:32:32] And a woman from Wisconsin wrote me and she said,

[00:32:38] the gist of what she said was, hey my husband passed away about a year ago

[00:32:42] but we were in a three-year lease or a two-year lease and it's coming due.

[00:32:46] And I was absolutely frightened because he used to handle this

[00:32:49] and then I saw the article on Motor Trend and I bought your software

[00:32:53] and it helped me make a great lease deal and I had the confidence

[00:32:57] to go in and cut the deal I wanted.

[00:32:59] And when I got and she said thank you for giving me back my confidence.

[00:33:03] Whatever she said.

[00:33:04] And I remember telling Abby, I said, oh I'm quitting the law.

[00:33:09] I'm going to do this.

[00:33:11] This is what I want to do because it was so inspiring that something

[00:33:14] that I had created had affected somebody else's life in that way

[00:33:18] without getting too sappy about it.

[00:33:20] That's really the payoff, right?

[00:33:22] Cash is nice but that's a good payoff.

[00:33:25] So that's how I, that's when I made the decision to leave

[00:33:31] but then I had to find a place to go.

[00:33:34] So the place that was doing the boxes for the software and the discs

[00:33:39] I went to them and I said, hear about this new internet thing?

[00:33:44] And they're like no.

[00:33:46] I said oh you're not on the internet?

[00:33:48] You don't have a digital business division?

[00:33:50] No because websites are a fad.

[00:33:52] Because it was, you know, Genie and Prodigy

[00:33:56] and AOL was just coming online.

[00:33:59] That's horrible stuff.

[00:34:00] CompuServe and I was in the heart of it.

[00:34:02] I was in Columbus, Ohio where CompuServe was based.

[00:34:05] Anyhow they gave me a two year contract to start a digital business.

[00:34:11] That business in eight months I took over, bought from them.

[00:34:18] Company out in Colorado bought that business

[00:34:21] and then I evolved that into driveoff.com

[00:34:24] and that's what Microsoft and Ford bought.

[00:34:27] So from auto leasing to MSN autos

[00:34:32] and I went on as vice president of MSN autos

[00:34:36] and then the dot com bust happened in 2001

[00:34:39] and it all came crashing down.

[00:34:42] And what was that experience like?

[00:34:46] So that experience was coupled within 30 days

[00:34:51] I found out that I had Hodgkin's lymphoma cancer

[00:34:55] and that I had to terminate 77 people.

[00:34:59] It wasn't as funny at the time

[00:35:02] but like I literally had to stand in a room with all my employees

[00:35:06] after I had, you know, and just say both of these things

[00:35:11] and I'm like guys I just, I felt bad.

[00:35:15] I felt horrible telling them

[00:35:17] and they felt bad for me and I didn't want it

[00:35:20] but that was quite an experience

[00:35:22] and they lost, MSN lost 300 million the year before.

[00:35:28] So we were just, you know,

[00:35:32] they didn't want to be in that business anymore

[00:35:34] and they cut a bunch of other divisions off too.

[00:35:37] So that's when I went back home

[00:35:42] and had to rebuild the next suite of businesses

[00:35:46] that I was going to do

[00:35:47] and that was Stop the Junk Mail and RC Universe.

[00:35:52] Which was the radio control site

[00:35:54] that grew into the world's largest online community at the time

[00:35:57] and that gave birth to Kango

[00:36:00] which was the one that Hearst and Media News group bought

[00:36:03] and they bought RCU with it.

[00:36:05] So what was it?

[00:36:07] I think for a lot of us millennials hearing about the dot-com burst

[00:36:11] and we were, you know, pretty young then

[00:36:13] even some of the older millennials

[00:36:15] may not have actually understood what was happening.

[00:36:17] What actually, and someone like you

[00:36:19] I feel like could articulate it very well.

[00:36:21] What occurred, like what was the dot-com burst?

[00:36:25] Like why did so many people lose their shirt?

[00:36:27] Like I don't think people realized how bad it was.

[00:36:30] Like people were like committing suicide off of buildings

[00:36:34] and it was very similar to the 08 and 09 crashes as well too, right?

[00:36:39] I have two words.

[00:36:41] Sock puppet.

[00:36:43] Huh.

[00:36:44] In sock puppet means there was a company

[00:36:47] whose advertisements were a sock puppet.

[00:36:51] It was, it's emblematic of the euphoria

[00:36:56] and the overvaluation of companies.

[00:37:00] What would happen is if you had a good dot-com name

[00:37:03] plants.com then you could get investors

[00:37:08] to throw money in

[00:37:10] and they were throwing money in crappy business models.

[00:37:13] We'll do this online.

[00:37:15] And I was jaded by it.

[00:37:18] Like I saw the crap that was coming on

[00:37:21] and it would take up an entire show

[00:37:24] but the business model behind driveoff.com

[00:37:27] was written up in the Wall Street Journal.

[00:37:29] It was the very first automotive sales model

[00:37:33] that could be that allowed a non-auto dealer

[00:37:37] to get paid on the sale of a car

[00:37:39] in 19 states that had laws protecting auto dealers from brokers.

[00:37:43] It was, I designed it so that it could work that way

[00:37:48] and we put a ton of thought into it

[00:37:50] but there were companies out there at the same time

[00:37:53] and you know where auto buying online is now.

[00:37:56] We were so far ahead of the curve in 99.

[00:37:59] It's ridiculous that there were companies that would,

[00:38:04] I mean I can't even remember them all.

[00:38:07] There were some really dumb ones

[00:38:09] and they just weren't executing.

[00:38:12] So imagine you're the CEO,

[00:38:15] you're on the hook maybe personal guarantee

[00:38:18] or maybe you've put your life savings into something

[00:38:20] and got.

[00:38:22] So that's what happened.

[00:38:23] You feel like a lot of the same is still occurring today?

[00:38:35] Not as much.

[00:38:37] No because A, the investors are more savvy

[00:38:41] and so now I've seen some stupid money throwing still.

[00:38:45] It goes on.

[00:38:46] If you happen to live in the right geography

[00:38:48] and you go to the right people,

[00:38:49] you can get money for almost anything

[00:38:52] and it's a lot of times it's vaporware

[00:38:55] and that was part of the problem back then too.

[00:38:57] They'd show wire frames and everything else,

[00:38:59] people would throw money in

[00:39:01] and then they could just- What's vaporware?

[00:39:03] Vaporware is software that ain't there.

[00:39:06] That's vapor.

[00:39:09] Wow, that's an old term?

[00:39:11] A mad old?

[00:39:13] I figured someone else may not know exactly.

[00:39:16] Yeah, it's really interesting.

[00:39:19] So with everything happening now,

[00:39:22] there's a couple of things going on here too

[00:39:24] and it kind of goes back to even just your messaging

[00:39:27] on your LinkedIn profile

[00:39:29] skating to where the puck is going.

[00:39:31] Sometimes if you're not careful

[00:39:33] and you're not doing the research

[00:39:35] and in hindsight doing the industry research

[00:39:38] and it may be innovative for its time

[00:39:41] but is there actually a market there?

[00:39:43] Is one thing.

[00:39:44] And then the other side is you can be too early

[00:39:48] or you can be like right in a good time

[00:39:50] but it may be inflated

[00:39:52] and there could be something on the back end

[00:39:54] that causes a crash.

[00:39:56] The other thing is, the flip side of that is

[00:39:59] don't be afraid to go into an area that's crowded.

[00:40:02] If you can do it better,

[00:40:05] at the end of the day with software

[00:40:07] people copy. Everybody's going to copy what you're doing.

[00:40:10] They're going to look at it and go oh yeah, we can do that.

[00:40:13] But can't you execute efficiently

[00:40:16] and where success comes to me is in process

[00:40:19] and execution?

[00:40:21] How do you do your software releases?

[00:40:23] How do you address client concerns?

[00:40:25] Because every business is going to scale.

[00:40:28] So you're going to have to have more customers.

[00:40:30] How much do you have to touch each customer along the way?

[00:40:33] Do you think you have a self-serve platform

[00:40:35] but it's not a self-serve platform?

[00:40:37] Do you need to train them?

[00:40:39] How close is that?

[00:40:41] Can you do it effectively?

[00:40:43] How well can you sell and scale

[00:40:45] at the same time without turning into a mill

[00:40:47] where you're just trying to get customers

[00:40:49] and contracts.

[00:40:51] And so the process

[00:40:53] which is often overlooked

[00:40:55] by the visionary CEO

[00:40:57] and I'm one of them

[00:40:59] until I got the right people around me,

[00:41:01] that's how I do it.

[00:41:03] I got the right people around me.

[00:41:05] That's how you fix that.

[00:41:07] Get people who know process.

[00:41:09] Our COO, Joe Conti

[00:41:11] is, I mean the guy

[00:41:13] absolutely lights out at what he does.

[00:41:15] He came up

[00:41:17] from Kraft

[00:41:19] and Nielsen

[00:41:21] and data oriented companies

[00:41:23] and he is all

[00:41:25] about the process.

[00:41:27] And he whipped my ass into shape early on

[00:41:29] because I was a cowboy with the code

[00:41:31] and I was just, oh let's make this feature

[00:41:33] pooky-moo, pooky-moo.

[00:41:35] And that works in the beginning

[00:41:37] but it doesn't scale.

[00:41:39] So execution

[00:41:41] and process are absolutely

[00:41:43] critical

[00:41:45] even on an idea where you're in a market

[00:41:47] that's really crowded that if you look up

[00:41:49] and look at the competition you'll go

[00:41:51] why did we do this again?

[00:41:53] Because if you look at all

[00:41:55] the ones that I've started

[00:41:57] automotive, right

[00:41:59] event management

[00:42:01] the radio control thing will dismiss

[00:42:03] for a minute but those are two good examples

[00:42:05] of really

[00:42:07] crowded fields where there's

[00:42:09] intense competition.

[00:42:11] But I will tell you that our little company

[00:42:13] goes up against

[00:42:15] the biggest billion dollar company

[00:42:17] in the event management space every day

[00:42:19] and we win contracts from them

[00:42:21] because we execute.

[00:42:23] Yeah, and I think-

[00:42:25] You don't have to win. You don't have to be

[00:42:27] a big gorilla. You don't have to be

[00:42:29] Mark Zuckerberg.

[00:42:31] You don't have to. A lot of people start their

[00:42:33] business thinking that's it

[00:42:35] and then they get deterred along the way

[00:42:37] and then don't even build it into

[00:42:39] a business.

[00:42:41] The aim is not

[00:42:43] the aim is not success to me

[00:42:45] as that's defined by

[00:42:47] by monies. The aim

[00:42:49] is build a good

[00:42:51] product and get it out

[00:42:53] to market. I still

[00:42:55] mean some people call me naive

[00:42:57] but for me

[00:42:59] the exercise of entrepreneurship

[00:43:01] is to put out a product

[00:43:03] that I am proud of that other

[00:43:05] people talk about and attribute

[00:43:07] back to us and they will

[00:43:09] take care of marketing

[00:43:11] that product for me. If

[00:43:13] it's good, they will come and use

[00:43:15] it. I mean

[00:43:17] did you see ads for TikTok

[00:43:19] anywhere? No.

[00:43:21] People liked it.

[00:43:23] They just liked it. It was well executed.

[00:43:25] Snapchat, well executed, constantly

[00:43:27] innovating and

[00:43:29] the president doesn't like it but

[00:43:31] that's another story. That might be a badge of

[00:43:33] honor.

[00:43:35] I'm sure you've got a perspective on

[00:43:37] that looking at some of your Facebook

[00:43:39] brands that I've seen.

[00:43:41] Yeah.

[00:43:43] Go follow this man.

[00:43:45] That's awesome.

[00:43:47] You being

[00:43:49] experienced entrepreneur

[00:43:51] and you have a lot of

[00:43:53] information about the

[00:43:55] business. Do you have any

[00:43:57] recommendations for

[00:43:59] those of us who are all trying to

[00:44:01] navigate the world we're in? What do

[00:44:03] you think is going to come

[00:44:07] of it in the world of business?

[00:44:09] Where do you think the puck is

[00:44:11] going in this case?

[00:44:13] For the first time

[00:44:15] I'm a little

[00:44:17] frightened by

[00:44:19] where the puck is going

[00:44:21] to succeed in

[00:44:23] an infertile garden.

[00:44:25] If the people around you

[00:44:27] are disgruntled, fearful

[00:44:29] unemployed, they're not

[00:44:31] spending money, nobody

[00:44:33] wins. So that

[00:44:35] needs to handle itself.

[00:44:37] That needs to work itself out.

[00:44:39] However that's going to work out but we need

[00:44:41] stability in which to operate.

[00:44:43] Assuming we have

[00:44:45] stability I think

[00:44:47] that innovation

[00:44:49] is at a break

[00:44:51] neck pace.

[00:44:53] Kids coming up

[00:44:55] need to hone

[00:44:57] a couple of skills

[00:44:59] that are enduring no matter

[00:45:01] how things change.

[00:45:03] Communication

[00:45:05] orally and in writing.

[00:45:07] You've got to be

[00:45:09] able to articulate yourself.

[00:45:11] Call me old fashioned.

[00:45:13] I hated grammar

[00:45:15] in grammar school, high school

[00:45:17] and college.

[00:45:19] It wasn't until law school

[00:45:21] where I learned

[00:45:23] and afterwards

[00:45:25] where I learned the payoff on the written word.

[00:45:27] Whether it was a book I published

[00:45:29] or a white paper

[00:45:31] and I'll tell you an anecdote, I wrote a white paper

[00:45:33] on event management.

[00:45:35] I wrote it

[00:45:37] and then forgot about it. A year later

[00:45:39] I'm down at the Houston Chronicle

[00:45:41] trying to pitch them

[00:45:43] and I got 25 people in the room.

[00:45:45] Giant circle of people.

[00:45:47] And one guy says

[00:45:49] hey,

[00:45:51] Mr. Cranes, hang on a second

[00:45:53] and he holds up a print out

[00:45:55] with a bunch of sharpie marks on it.

[00:45:57] He goes, did you write this?

[00:45:59] I said, yeah that's my white paper.

[00:46:01] He goes, I've been circulating

[00:46:03] in this office for the last month

[00:46:05] and I was like

[00:46:07] yes!

[00:46:09] And that's what led to Hearst.

[00:46:11] That's money in the bank,

[00:46:13] you know, you could draw a straight line.

[00:46:15] Written word.

[00:46:17] How good are you

[00:46:19] at sounding

[00:46:21] measured,

[00:46:23] researched, and in command

[00:46:25] of the subject matter?

[00:46:27] How good are you early?

[00:46:29] If you have to demo your product,

[00:46:31] how good are you?

[00:46:33] And I'm not talking about just

[00:46:35] how well words roll off your tongue.

[00:46:37] I'm talking about responding to your audience.

[00:46:39] Can you read them facially?

[00:46:41] How are they going?

[00:46:43] How do you react?

[00:46:45] And where do you go with it?

[00:46:47] Are you in command?

[00:46:49] Do you have product knowledge

[00:46:51] so that you can respond

[00:46:53] to just about anything?

[00:46:55] Now look, there is an advantage

[00:46:57] in software anyway

[00:46:59] to understanding code

[00:47:01] and understanding business

[00:47:03] at the same time

[00:47:05] and yeah, the legal part helps too.

[00:47:07] So when I'm in a discussion with somebody

[00:47:09] and the head of IT goes,

[00:47:11] well what sort of security do you have?

[00:47:13] And they expect me to pass that question off

[00:47:15] and then I rattle off a couple of things

[00:47:17] TLS 1.2 and SSL

[00:47:19] and HTTPS, cookies

[00:47:21] and blah blah blah blah blah whatever it is.

[00:47:23] Then

[00:47:25] he says, oh

[00:47:27] that guy knows his stuff

[00:47:29] and then they go, they have more confidence

[00:47:31] in you. Okay?

[00:47:33] So that means if it's not you

[00:47:35] the entrepreneur, if your VP

[00:47:37] is in sales, make sure they know

[00:47:39] their stuff. So product

[00:47:41] knowledge endures.

[00:47:43] So that's

[00:47:45] written and oral communications

[00:47:47] and then the other

[00:47:49] thing is a more

[00:47:51] soft skill

[00:47:53] of human relations

[00:47:55] what I call the old fashioned way.

[00:47:57] Don't lapse into an email

[00:47:59] every time. Pick up

[00:48:01] the phone, talk to somebody

[00:48:03] you'll be different if you do that

[00:48:05] because most people are lazy

[00:48:07] and they just got a

[00:48:09] send off the email. Send it off

[00:48:11] you can lose a deal on an email

[00:48:13] not always

[00:48:15] but be sensitive

[00:48:17] to when that's appropriate

[00:48:19] and when you're talking to somebody

[00:48:21] don't, you know

[00:48:23] and again this comes with age

[00:48:25] and it comes from understanding

[00:48:27] my product but I push on

[00:48:29] people. I ask them why

[00:48:31] so if somebody says

[00:48:33] well do you have gamification in your

[00:48:35] software? We don't

[00:48:37] there's a reason why we

[00:48:39] don't and

[00:48:41] before I'm going to tell them that reason I'm going to say

[00:48:43] well why do you need gamification

[00:48:45] and then they'll tell me something like

[00:48:47] well we want our attendees to visit

[00:48:49] all the booths and we want them to scan

[00:48:51] a QR code at the booth and that motivates

[00:48:53] them to go to the booth. I go oh

[00:48:55] well

[00:48:57] what do you suppose is going through

[00:48:59] the vendors or the attendees mind

[00:49:01] when they know you have to give them an incentive

[00:49:03] to go visit the booths do they think

[00:49:05] that you maybe pick vendors they

[00:49:07] want to see? That you have to

[00:49:09] have a game and when they get to the booth

[00:49:11] do you think the engagement level

[00:49:13] is such that it really

[00:49:15] worked? What's the ROI

[00:49:17] not in terms of dollars but what's the return

[00:49:19] does it really work or did you just

[00:49:21] hear that from somebody so I will

[00:49:23] challenge

[00:49:25] I'm going to tell them

[00:49:27] no you can't do that but I'm going to make them

[00:49:29] think and so when you

[00:49:31] do that when you're more consultative

[00:49:33] in your process with

[00:49:35] the client then the client

[00:49:37] views you as an authority and

[00:49:39] again product knowledge contributes to that

[00:49:41] and as an authority

[00:49:43] you're trusted and that's how

[00:49:45] you form a real

[00:49:47] relationship not just a transactional

[00:49:49] relationship with your clients

[00:49:51] that's why they stay

[00:49:53] okay and in businesses like ours

[00:49:55] which rely on subscriptions yeah

[00:49:57] the product has to work but when it doesn't

[00:49:59] and every product

[00:50:01] will fail

[00:50:03] people that will stick with you because

[00:50:05] they know you've got their back

[00:50:07] are the ones you want and you're going to

[00:50:09] engender that by performing in that

[00:50:11] manner. And that's also where communication

[00:50:13] comes into in all of those scenarios

[00:50:15] mm-hmm yeah

[00:50:17] how do you how would you

[00:50:19] recommend someone refine those skills

[00:50:21] um just

[00:50:25] put yourself in the client shoes

[00:50:27] what would what how would I want to be treated

[00:50:29] that's all it takes it's not magic

[00:50:31] now can you

[00:50:33] you could take that as your core

[00:50:35] theme and then from there you can establish

[00:50:37] processes hey every

[00:50:39] three months we're going to do a follow-up

[00:50:41] where we actually pick up the phone

[00:50:43] and call the client how you doing

[00:50:45] you liking everything have you run into

[00:50:47] anything and sure it's going to cause you

[00:50:49] some support time and you might have to

[00:50:51] explain something and some people just

[00:50:53] they start oh by the way I have one more

[00:50:55] question that's if I hear one more

[00:50:57] question one more time it's never

[00:50:59] one more question so

[00:51:01] develop a process around

[00:51:03] the concept of standing

[00:51:05] in your client shoes

[00:51:07] I did get anything else

[00:51:10] that you think what's top of mind for

[00:51:12] you man anything else I that you got

[00:51:14] the audience here Coloradoans

[00:51:16] students professionals entrepreneurs

[00:51:18] what do people need to know from you

[00:51:20] what do they need to learn from you

[00:51:24] I think

[00:51:26] that

[00:51:28] it's it's to me and I

[00:51:30] I am biased

[00:51:32] sometimes I'll say I wish I just sold t-shirts

[00:51:34] so I could turn out the lights at five

[00:51:36] and go home

[00:51:38] software

[00:51:40] is the future

[00:51:42] is now it is also the future

[00:51:44] and

[00:51:46] it is amazing

[00:51:48] that you can take a blank screen

[00:51:50] and build whatever you want

[00:51:52] and if you can't

[00:51:54] you can't just go to the code

[00:51:56] find somebody who can

[00:51:58] let your imagination

[00:52:00] go I have never

[00:52:02] seen any

[00:52:04] medium that is so

[00:52:06] empowering as software

[00:52:08] is and I think

[00:52:10] that

[00:52:12] if even if

[00:52:14] you

[00:52:16] I guess what I'm saying is that

[00:52:18] it's an exciting time

[00:52:20] and

[00:52:22] I'm in which

[00:52:24] everybody thinks they have the next great

[00:52:26] app

[00:52:28] not always everybody thinks

[00:52:30] a lot of people think they have the next great internet

[00:52:32] business but when you

[00:52:34] get your idea

[00:52:36] take people's opinions

[00:52:38] not your relatives because they'll all

[00:52:40] think it's a good idea but

[00:52:42] solicit critical feedback

[00:52:44] and it's okay

[00:52:46] to abandon your idea and go you know what

[00:52:48] maybe I'll leave that alone

[00:52:50] no matter how intensely

[00:52:52] you believe in it be willing

[00:52:54] to let it go if it's not

[00:52:56] right but also

[00:52:58] be well you know look at

[00:53:00] what's look at the opportunities that are out there

[00:53:02] for you to contribute and I think that

[00:53:04] if you're in a position where you're still

[00:53:06] getting your education

[00:53:08] having these skills

[00:53:10] whether it's using an application

[00:53:12] like Adobe InDesign

[00:53:14] or you know learning

[00:53:16] a

[00:53:18] big app coding

[00:53:20] software that allows you to make an app

[00:53:22] and even if you can only make a wire frame

[00:53:24] and articulate your concept and get somebody

[00:53:26] else to help you through it which is how I started

[00:53:28] in software that's okay

[00:53:30] so vet the idea

[00:53:32] and I

[00:53:34] a lot of people aren't going to share my

[00:53:36] excitement for software but

[00:53:38] at its core to me it allows

[00:53:40] ideas to become reality

[00:53:42] with very little cost

[00:53:44] because you can

[00:53:46] build it and you don't even need

[00:53:48] soft need software

[00:53:50] or tech to take an idea

[00:53:52] and turn it into a business

[00:53:54] I mean now

[00:53:56] you need digital stuff but there's so many

[00:53:58] different ways you can do that

[00:54:00] whether it's an info product

[00:54:02] or it's a new

[00:54:04] invention right so it's like

[00:54:06] just taking that

[00:54:08] idea and manifesting it into

[00:54:10] a business

[00:54:12] okay and you're right and I

[00:54:14] just you know I get that

[00:54:16] you're biased because you're software

[00:54:18] but you know

[00:54:20] things are tricky to bring

[00:54:22] to market now with

[00:54:24] 3d printing you could bring

[00:54:26] a concept to market a lot faster

[00:54:28] but you have patents drawings

[00:54:30] you know engineering

[00:54:32] and all of those things and somebody might look

[00:54:34] at that and say hey that's a lot easier

[00:54:36] than that damn software shit

[00:54:38] so I didn't mean

[00:54:40] to be biased but it does take the same

[00:54:42] approach is this

[00:54:44] good do people really need

[00:54:46] a bait tackle box that when you

[00:54:48] pick it up it drains the water out

[00:54:50] do we really need that

[00:54:52] do we need another thing

[00:54:54] so

[00:54:56] yeah other thing of a

[00:54:58] bob in the drawer that does

[00:55:00] something with tomatoes only

[00:55:02] but

[00:55:04] and look just by virtue

[00:55:06] of 7 billion people on the planet

[00:55:08] and all the products we currently have

[00:55:10] yeah that's to answer your earlier

[00:55:12] question I think it is

[00:55:14] more difficult to come to mark

[00:55:16] market with something that hasn't been done

[00:55:18] before

[00:55:20] so that you have an angle but you better

[00:55:22] have an angle or you better be really tenacious

[00:55:24] or you better have a cut price

[00:55:26] and went on price but you got

[00:55:28] to have some advantage or

[00:55:30] you know it's not the old

[00:55:32] well there's all you know 300 million

[00:55:34] people and if we could only get one percent of them

[00:55:36] yeah you know

[00:55:38] doesn't work out without doing the industry

[00:55:40] research you know interviewing

[00:55:42] people hey do you need this do you want

[00:55:44] this is actually going to help

[00:55:46] you

[00:55:48] like podcast

[00:55:50] podcast ready get your

[00:55:52] podcast launch your buddy

[00:55:54] how many and I'm actually

[00:55:56] going to dive in and do that

[00:55:58] and somehow only because

[00:56:00] it's fun but you got to

[00:56:02] know that

[00:56:04] with so much

[00:56:06] out there I actually wonder

[00:56:08] if somebody else can digest more

[00:56:10] content

[00:56:12] you have convinced me because you are talented

[00:56:14] in your own right that

[00:56:16] people will

[00:56:18] buy what I'm selling on the Michael

[00:56:20] Cranitz event show

[00:56:22] brought to you by

[00:56:24] you answered your own question

[00:56:26] don't need to

[00:56:28] you can be in an industry that appears

[00:56:30] flooded from the outside

[00:56:32] but there's always that

[00:56:34] micro niche in there that's

[00:56:36] going to consume every little

[00:56:38] bit and drop that you out

[00:56:40] and you got some great stuff man

[00:56:42] and I can't thank you enough for doing this also

[00:56:44] I'm really excited I have to have

[00:56:46] you back again in a year and see how things

[00:56:48] have changed and

[00:56:50] and after we've gotten your podcast launched

[00:56:52] and rocking and rolling

[00:56:54] in the meantime how can

[00:56:56] people find you follow

[00:56:58] you getting to contact with you

[00:57:00] I'm on LinkedIn

[00:57:02] I'm on LinkedIn

[00:57:04] and I will thrash

[00:57:06] anybody who sends

[00:57:08] a stupidly worded

[00:57:10] unintelligent message to me

[00:57:12] and I will smile while I'm thrashing them

[00:57:14] isn't that nice

[00:57:16] I'm on Facebook

[00:57:18] but

[00:57:20] you know I'm not

[00:57:22] I'm not

[00:57:24] I'm not

[00:57:26] I'm not

[00:57:28] I'm not on Facebook but

[00:57:30] you know you don't want to come

[00:57:32] in my circle on Facebook you'll

[00:57:34] you'll be mentally disturbed by

[00:57:36] you know after a couple of posts

[00:57:38] so it's really linked in

[00:57:40] and

[00:57:42] if you're looking for event software

[00:57:44] you can just go to eventsquid.com

[00:57:46] and read all about it and eventually

[00:57:48] you'll get me probably

[00:57:50] on a screen talking to you about

[00:57:52] how you run your business

[00:57:54] and your events and such so those are

[00:57:56] things that I need to get a hold of me

[00:57:58] I will not be publishing my

[00:58:00] my mobile number on this podcast

[00:58:02] Fair enough, fair enough

[00:58:04] that'll be next time and those of you who have questions

[00:58:06] make sure you message and message us

[00:58:08] we'll make sure to get them over to Michael

[00:58:10] you know what Michael

[00:58:12] at eventsquid.com

[00:58:14] Michael at eventsquid.com

[00:58:16] if you're in events check out the

[00:58:18] software it's phenomenal

[00:58:20] you've been crushing it

[00:58:22] and helping a lot of people over the years

[00:58:24] to be able to get through this

[00:58:26] and to be able to get through this

[00:58:28] and also to be able to get through this

[00:58:30] and to be able to get through this

[00:58:32] and also to be able to get through this

[00:58:34] and thank you for attention

[00:58:36] and thank you for sharing too

[00:58:38] so can't thank you enough for mentoring us all

[00:58:40] and make sure those of you listening

[00:58:58] number one subscribe as always

[00:59:00] so you get notified for new episodes

[00:59:02] leave a five star review is

[00:59:04] preferred

[00:59:06] and give us a shout on social media too

[00:59:08] and also to all of you who are

[00:59:10] considering an expert in relevant fields

[00:59:12] to give you a real sense of what the day-to-day

[00:59:14] experience of solo parenting looks

[00:59:16] and feels like

[00:59:18] plus this season I've partnered with California

[00:59:20] Cryo Bank the number one Spurn Bake

[00:59:22] in the U.S. so wherever you are in the process

[00:59:24] this podcast provides some support

[00:59:26] humor and helpful information

[00:59:28] listen to you and me kit wherever you get your podcasts