Practitioner In Training with Josh & Steve

[00:00:01] I'm Josh Reeves, I'm here with Rev. Steve Kinsfather and all this year I've had the honor of speaking to several of our ministers around our initiative of healing and community and it's a wonderful way to get to know people like Steve and their ministerial story in relationship with this thing called community.

[00:00:22] And Steve, of all the people I know, you may have the longest relationship with Mile Hi Church. When did you first become aware of Mile Hi Church and when did you become a part of it? Very early on. Actually Josh, my parents were two of 14 that were meeting in a vacuum cleaner store basement and it was a gathering place.

[00:00:47] The owner of the vacuum cleaner store provided that space for them to talk about Ernest Holmes, the teachings and what to do with it. And they decided, I think there was 10 of the 14 that actually went to the Holmes Institute and earned their Bachelor of Religious Science Diplomas. And then Ernest Holmes came out to Colorado and presented the diplomas to my parents and I think 10 others and Hornaday was there.

[00:01:13] So I have a photograph of them. And I was born two years later in 1958, I was born. And remember the vacuum cleaner store is like kind of chrome monsters, but not a real grasp of anything. I think it'd be a great test on practitioner training to describe the creative process using the analogy of a vacuum cleaner.

[00:01:35] It was. I didn't grasp those things. And even as I turned in toddler age and that, you know, I'd heard Ernest Holmes, but it was like, well, what team does he play for? You know, who is that guy? It didn't really sink in, but the teachings were. And I love to share the poem that I, not poem, the prayer that I learned at about four years old. And it goes like this, God is good. God is love. God is harmony. And God is in me.

[00:02:04] And I was able to remember it. And I still do now, but as a four-year-old, that sunk in of all the qualities that God was to me at that early age that other people don't have that vision of God or see those qualities. I love that. And I want to use that with my child. And Steve, so you were in a sense born into the community, but at some point you felt called to become a member and eventually a practitioner and eventually a minister.

[00:02:31] What was that calling for you? When did it happen and how did it come into fruition? It was because of the community, Josh, coming to Mile High Church. There was a couple of ministers prior to Dr. Fred Vogt, but I think that was his being given a letter of call with Mile High Church was about the time I was really able to understand the teachings.

[00:02:54] And that's when I just loved being in that community. I loved his sense of humor, things that just made sense. I felt peaceful. And I think we like being around like-minded people. When I came to Mile High Church and Dr. Fred was the senior minister, it felt like like-hearted people. It was a loving community.

[00:03:15] And my teen years, I actually went away to a different teaching, sort of a Jesus freak is what it was called. It was before I was old enough to drive, but that was my sister's teaching. She was into born-again Christianity. But they were going to coffee shops and meetings and that- He kept the freak, ladies and gentlemen, but not the Jesus.

[00:03:33] Yeah. Anyway, and that's what church was about to me. Those also, and my parents encouraged, try different religions. Try and see what things feel right to you in your heart. And it wasn't until I retired from working that I actually took the practitioner courses. I retired from my full-time position and felt I had time to dedicate that. But what kept bringing me back were the classes and the teachings and the ministry. And it just felt like home. Speaking of Jesus, I believe that you shared the same trade. Is that correct?

[00:04:04] The beard and the carpentry. And people ask me about that once in a while. I actually taught a carpentry class for many years, and there's a synchronicity story about that. I was carpenter by trade and how I got into teaching it was an angel appearing really. And that's a different story, but I shared it yesterday with- Oh, I want to hear it. Okay.

[00:04:25] Anyway, I pulled on my dad's leg when I was a toddler and said, Dad, make me some more solder dust because he was out in the shop cutting up. I think it was redwood and pine and just the different smells. And I would scoop it up with my hands and loved it. And liked seeing a vacant lot. And then my dad would be out there with some other men. And a week later, there was a garage and it was cool. And I built a birdhouse. Then I built a doghouse and then a clubhouse and eventually a full-size house.

[00:04:52] And I had my own remodeling business. Very busy. And I was doing all of the jobs. Writing the bids, going out and bidding a job, getting the materials, doing the tear-out, building, constructing, billing the people, collecting. And I said, I need someone to answer phones for me and help with paperwork. And I also need a laborer or a helper to go get more nails when we run out, go make errands, haul the trash.

[00:05:16] And my dad was coming to town. He was living in another town at that time. And I said, let's go to the neighborhood bar and have a beer. And we did that. And I said, I want to talk to you about what I should do in hiring employees going forward with this business or what he thought would be the right thing to do. And as we were having our first few sips of beer and talking, in walks this friend of his, a lady, who came over just to say hi to my dad. And I introduced myself and said, this is what we're talking about. And she said, have you ever thought of becoming a teacher?

[00:05:44] And I said, no. I had a great teacher in high school. Loved him. He let me work in the shop and loved carpentry and loved my teachers, but I hadn't thought about being one. And she said, being a vocational teacher, we could really use you and I will help you. And that was the angel sent to me. And I took the classes, was given the first scholarship ever given out by Associated General Contractors. So I went to Red Rocks Community College to learn the trade carpentry classes.

[00:06:10] And if I had a good GPA, which I did, then they sent me to the four-year University of Colorado State to learn the business and business management and the rest is history. I love that. And you took the practitioner training at mile high, I'm guessing, for spiritual deepening. And at some point you became a practitioner and at some point you got the call to ministry. What happened? My class was just recognized last Friday at the Stoll Ceremony for 15-year pins.

[00:06:40] I served as a practitioner for 12 years and loved it. It allowed me to TA for Dr. Roger Thiel, his Beyond Limits class. He taught twice a year. And TAing that just gave me that teaching, that class. Again, being fed and nurtured by this teaching and being in the presence of it, being in a Beyond Limits community. And after 10 years, I got the interest in being a minister.

[00:07:06] And to backspace a little bit, when I graduated, the practitioner, Roger Thiel asked who in the practitioner class here of 34 thinks they want to go on into the ministry. And I think there was five of us that raised our hands. Four of us did become ministers and the other one became a chaplain. So that was my calling. And again, it's just taking that next step, going a little deeper and listening to what my calling is at the time. Yeah.

[00:07:33] How has your understanding of the science of mind teaching evolved in this boy, two-thirds of a century of engagement in it? You're telling my age here. I've shared just recently, too, and it's very true to me. When you're in practitioner training, your name badge, or at least when I was going, had my name, Steve Kinsfather, and underneath said practitioner in training.

[00:08:01] And I no longer wear that name badge, but I think it's still very appropriate. I could actually wear that and not feel bad about it. Always practicing, practitioner in training. And Ernest Holmes felt that's the best thing is that practitioner that puts the principles to use in their life, practices in the laboratory of life. And each day probably I'm a little bit deeper.

[00:08:26] I think I shared from the platform in the invocation prayer last two Sundays ago that we will never know God at its depth or vast, can never be known with our humanness, and yet it feels like our life's calling to try. I love that, Steve. Thanks for sharing that. I think part of our titles isn't a sign of our advancement, but of our commitment to learning how to serve other people.

[00:08:55] Right, the licensed practitioner ministry, and you've been serving mile high for so much of your life, but as a minister for well over a year now, leading our Wisdom Keepers group and supporting our small groups.

[00:09:13] And just this week, you received another designation or the approval to receive such, which is ordination within our faith, which is the recognition of your commitment to ministry for life. How does that feel? That happened yesterday, almost about this time of day. My panels were yesterday afternoon, and a little bit nervous about it.

[00:09:39] You're speaking to three ordained ministers that have the right to ask you any question they want to, and you don't know what that's going to be. And they were fascinated with a lot of the things I had written. One of the ladies says, I want to know more about carpentry. So I shared a little bit about that. And I just felt very comfortable. I just felt like I was blessed. That's the attitude that I went into my panels, knowing that it would be divinely guided and to be authentic.

[00:10:06] And that's what I'm trying to be right now. I think I am. I think it always serves me. Being my authentic self and ordination is a commitment. It's a commitment to this teaching and how we teach others and what we do with our own life as a role model, how we practice the principles. And it's always been important to me to never force someone or say they must do this or my religion is right.

[00:10:34] I think Science of Mind teaches that all the religions have value, and no one of them is completely right. But find what's right for you. I love that. Although I like to argue our... You know, Jesus, for example, isn't greater than anybody else's Jesus, but he sure is cooler. And I love this concept of the practitioner in training because I definitely learned that in my experience, Steve. And maybe at times I thought I was pursuing something.

[00:11:02] But really, every designation, initiation, anointing I've ever received has been a demonstration of my practice. It's been a threshold crossing that said, Josh, you practice enough? You're ready for practitioner training. You've been practicing being a practitioner enough.

[00:11:21] Why don't you try this ministerial training on and on and on, including in being honored with roles like senior minister of the Seal Beach Center for Spiritual Living or being a minister here at Mile High. These things are not sought after or reached for, but they're demonstrations of remaining that practitioner in training. I would agree with that.

[00:11:44] And I use the example of sometimes you'll walk into a person's office and they have their big throne chair, you know, showing how important they are. And behind them is all of their certificates or accolades or diplomas they've earned, and they have to show you their importance. And to me, it's more the humbling. And I've seen that in you, Josh. Instead of walking in and wanting to be above people, you join the circle, blend right in, and one with those that are present and speak to them at that level.

[00:12:11] Meeting people where they are rather than as authority or... I am the most incredibly humble person here. I remember Andy Kaufman, the great comedian, used to do a talk show bit where his chair was way risen up over his guest. And so it was even better, better than a throne. Now, Steve, you have a wonderful focus ministry called Vessels of Spirit that has served many through incredible workshops.

[00:12:40] You're a wonderful teacher and facilitator. But you also have a bit of a focus ministry, a kind of a side gig that you rendezvous. I will tell the audience now it is not private dancer. But would you tell us about that wonderful role that you bring your ministry into that you've been doing for a little while now? I'll try to do the condensed version with that, which I feel is important. The Wisdom Keepers has a lunch every month, the Christmas lunch.

[00:13:09] My wife and I walked into the Christmas setting to be guests and have lunch. And this man comes running up to me and he says, You kind of look like Santa. I have a suit my wife wants me to put on and be sent and hand out gifts. Will you do it? And I said, Well, I'm not sure. And I said, What is your wife saying? She came over and said, Yeah, if you want to do it. So I did. I put on the suit and handed out gifts at the Wisdom Keepers lunch. And people enjoyed it. And I sort of enjoyed it.

[00:13:35] And I told my wife, There's got to be a place where you actually learn to do Santa. And at that same time, the lady came up to me and she said, I bought that suit, but you can take it home if you'll be Santa again next year. I said, Okay, well, I appreciate a one year's notice as opposed to a 10 minute notice. And I will do that for you. And I will appear every year after that for the price of the suit. Two days later, I'm going to a clothing store up in Golden, Colorado, pulled into the parking lot and off by itself was this gorgeous red Lexus

[00:14:04] with a black license plate claws. I said, There's going to be somebody in the store that looks like Santa and I'll go talk to him. Sure enough, went over to him and I said, I'm starting to like being Santa. Can you tell me what to do or what do you know about it? And he said, Yes, I've gone to school for many years. Here's the school. He gave me the lady's name. I called her and got enrolled. And since three years now, I have a Zoom call tonight for professional Santa Claus school. And a lot of training.

[00:14:33] And I appreciate that being background check. I've always been a mandatory reporter as a teacher. But many things and where your hands are in every picture, how you greet people, learning some ASL, working with special needs. So there's all kinds of working with people, not just children, but children of all ages that are very similar to being a minister. And when a child comes to me, I don't ask, What would you like for Christmas? I say, What do you want to tell Santa?

[00:15:00] And it's amazing the things that they feel like sharing when you're approachable and have that kind heart. Isn't that what Santa does, especially when encountering, is create sacred space for the one's magic that they seek in their life to come forward to be able to articulate that. So, you know, they are sharing, in a sense, their prayers with Santa in that sacred environment. And my guess is, to some degree, your response to them in your own way is, and so it is. Yes.

[00:15:30] I have an example of a brother and sister. I'm thinking like four and six. And the brother came up first, and I said, What do you want to tell Santa? Well, I want a new hoverboard, and I want a Dell computer model 6203, and I wanted this, and I want to—he was a Nike jacket, and the parents are back there kind of doing the no-no-go. He's not getting all that. And I said, Santa can bring you some of the things that you deserve. You've been a good boy, but some of these things I think someone else might deserve more, and just understand that.

[00:15:58] If you don't get something, maybe someone needed it more than you did. But keep being good, and things will show up as they should. And then his little sister, the little younger sister came up and said, Oh, that's a pretty dress. What do you want to tell Santa? And she comes up and she says, I wish our puppy was back alive. Two completely different responses to what they wanted. And of course, then that minister kicks in. I bet you loved your puppy, and I know he loved you.

[00:16:25] And being there for them, two different requests. And I often will engage the parents, come over and tell me something about your spouse here, about this lady next to you. And I just wish I had more rest. That's what I'd like, Santa. And I said, you know what? I could bring your family love and joy and peace and kindness. And your children would pick up their toys. And she's like, yeah. And I said, but there's a catch to it. Oh, no, you have to share it. When I bring love, you have to share it.

[00:16:54] But so just involving children of all ages and using it as a time to maybe give an example of certain qualities in life are much more important than material things. That's profound, Steve. Thank you for sharing that. I was going to ask the question, but I already know the answer based on your sharing. That is, does Santa exist? If you believe, yes. Santa's been around for many, many years. And I would like an Xbox Series X.

[00:17:24] Let me see where you're on that list right now. You've been fluctuating on that list a little bit, Josh. Oh, yes. Well, if I'm naughty with conscious mindfulness, doesn't that make it a spiritual practice? It does. As long as you learn from it. Steve, just before we close, tell me what the Mile High community means to you.

[00:17:54] Again, we started with my longevity in it, and I've seen it change. I've seen people that were so influential in the teaching, but just how it ebbs and flows and being flexible with that, knowing it is a spiritual beacon for personal empowerment and global enlightenment. And those words mean a lot. I say that every Sunday and not without thought. What does it mean to me?

[00:18:22] July 4th was a month or so ago, just less than a month. It was my wife and I were married by Dr. Fred Vogt in the Vogt Center on July 4th, 1994. So 32 years ago. And just those kind of things. A date that means something to me that may not mean something to someone else. 2008, when the sanctuary opened, I was serving as a greeter.

[00:18:48] And when the brand new sanctuary was built, I actually brought my carpentry class up here to learn about the blueprints and a different kind of construction, the dome. But on that Sunday morning in 2008, I was standing at the door greeting people as they come in. And walking out of the admin center over towards there were five, I think, if not six, ministers walking together, all showing up. It was Roger Till and Cynthia James, Patty Lukenbach, Raz, Barry.

[00:19:18] Lloyd Barrett was one of them. And Marge, Marjorie Stum. But just seeing it was kind of like the power of that group and the history. And we stand on the shoulders of those that have gone before us. And I think that's something I also feel at Mile High. And again, it's not a like-minded community. It's a like-hearted community. And you can feel that when you come here. Well, thank you, Steve, for the heart you bring to Mile High. You are a Mile High treasurer. And congratulations on your ordination.

[00:19:48] And actually, this could be the first place where we announce that ordination. Do we have the date and the details? September 27th at 1 o'clock. A day that will live in infamy. And it'll be in the same place I got married 32 years ago over in the Boat Center. And Roger should be here for that as well. Awesome. Congratulations, Steve. Thanks for being a part of Mile High Church. Thanks for all that you do for this place and for your commitment to ever being that practitioner in training.

[00:20:18] And so it is.