Michelle and Josh on Spiritual Living and the Enneagram
[00:00:00] Hey Michelle. Hey Josh, how you doing? I'm doing great. How are you today? I'm good. Thank you. Happy April
[00:00:06] Yes, April. It's hard to believe isn't it? Yeah, we've had Easter already and it's spring time and
[00:00:12] You know one of the things that I'm excited about that you're doing is you've been branching out your spiritual practice
[00:00:19] You know in your side hustle besides your busy job at Mile Hi Church
[00:00:23] You've been exploring the Enneagram. Yes, I have
[00:00:26] I've been exploring it for many years and that I've known about it used it gone to workshops read about it
[00:00:33] But I've been becoming certifiable
[00:00:37] Certificated in it so that I can teach it and work with people with it. It's awesome and a little bit of
[00:00:44] Following in the footsteps of your mother and her work with that too
[00:00:47] She's actually the one who's created a certification program and so I'm with I think eight other students and we're all
[00:00:54] Learning together and it's kind of a legacy. She's creating for this lifelong work. She's been a part of so it's been fun
[00:01:00] I love that and you know one of my and it'll be one of the things
[00:01:02] I most remember about my whole time here at Mile Hi before you and I
[00:01:07] Became lead ministers together your mom wanted to sit me down and have a talk and it kind of felt almost like
[00:01:14] So you'll want to marry my daughter
[00:01:18] What is your type?
[00:01:20] So I knew I knew the Enneagram, but it was really helpful
[00:01:23] And in that she helped me to realize that I was a two
[00:01:29] That I'm a helper and she would use that example of you know
[00:01:33] People are walking in a room and you're scanning and saying gosh
[00:01:36] How can I support those folks and that's totally me and she helped me understand deeper the Enneagram that even though
[00:01:42] That's how I grew up that I had learned over time to develop a three-wing a performer
[00:01:49] Weing and she thought that you and I would work really well together because the way that you grew up was more in that three
[00:01:56] And and yet you developed a two a two-wing supporting their
[00:02:02] Through people and so that we were kind of a good match and working together
[00:02:05] but it led me into a deeper respect for the Enneagram and
[00:02:10] Especially in terms of just greater self-awareness to most definitely and as we were talking earlier
[00:02:18] I'm still working with
[00:02:21] the spiritual essence of the Enneagram because the
[00:02:25] The theory is that there's a genetic component if you look at your parents
[00:02:29] You might see some inherited tendencies that contribute to you being a two and there's also a nurture component
[00:02:36] What you experienced in your life
[00:02:37] experience both your
[00:02:39] Wondology and your strengths have also to do with helping to develop where you lead with and the theories you never change your number
[00:02:47] And what I've really been appreciating in our training is that we're talking a lot about the essence of each number
[00:02:53] like each one of the numbers that have been categorized have
[00:02:58] ways we can recognize them by
[00:03:00] Their behavior and how they act and how they think and really what's motivating them
[00:03:04] But each one has a deeper essence that they're like the essence of a two
[00:03:09] I believe is connection part of what causes you to want to be so helpful
[00:03:14] They would say is that the essence of you as you desire
[00:03:17] Profound connection and that does feel true for as far as I know about you. Does that feel true to you?
[00:03:23] it does yeah, and and
[00:03:26] You know, I'm sorry if I'm going off in a tanger of one of those things that the Enneagram has helped me with just
[00:03:31] In studying all the numbers is greater self-awareness, you know, I think one of those things that
[00:03:36] You know if you were to ask me and maybe it's my tunis. Maybe it's my Josh's but I'm a I'm not a first-person thinker
[00:03:43] You know, I'm like a third person thinker. I'm always thinking about everybody else and maybe how that relates to me
[00:03:48] But
[00:03:49] One of the things that I learned you know even having you know challenges in my marriage like we all have in my wife
[00:03:54] Is a four so this strong individualistic
[00:03:58] Perspective and realizing that sometimes even when we're struggling
[00:04:01] She's kind of helping me into her forness a little bit to think more about myself
[00:04:06] And so I haven't spent a year or last year listening to podcasts and talking to you and reading some more books on the Enneagram
[00:04:12] Because it was helping me to increase my own self-awareness to own my stuff better
[00:04:17] Versus, you know, how can I what can I do to switch this person to make my life easier on myself?
[00:04:23] Versus, you know, what's going on in my heart and in my mind, right?
[00:04:26] And that is really a huge part of it both the all that you've just articulated
[00:04:31] In my opinion is that we're all seeking self-knowledge and the better we know ourselves
[00:04:35] The better we are in every realm of our lives
[00:04:38] And the more we can improve where we want to improve
[00:04:40] And so having that knowledge that you're gaining through reading about the Enneagram through your relationship with your wife
[00:04:46] Through understanding your essence and what what really motivates you to be who you are all has to do with
[00:04:53] Learning about yourself and having better relationships not taking things so personally from people
[00:04:59] Being able to be more efficient and effective in communication
[00:05:03] It has all sorts of tentacles and important things that we're a part of yeah, so it's you know, it's a great
[00:05:09] An ancient philosophy towards
[00:05:11] You know self-awareness and getting along with other people and there's the nine numbers and all of that
[00:05:15] And everyone can learn about that and they can learn about it through your
[00:05:18] Workshop coming up on the 7th and 8th of june. That's right. Yeah, it's friday night the 7th
[00:05:24] It's six. I think it's six or six thirty honestly
[00:05:26] I'm suddenly like all these workshops are in my head
[00:05:28] But it's a three-hour workshop on friday night where we're going to talk about the basics of the Enneagram
[00:05:33] And then in the tradition that i'm being trained in
[00:05:36] Um, we believe in the oral traditions
[00:05:39] So we learn about the numbers by talking about them and talking about our numbers and hearing panels and
[00:05:46] interviewing each other and sort of that sort of thing and so
[00:05:50] There are a lot of online tests that people can go take you can find them all over the internet
[00:05:54] We still haven't found any that seem to be really good. They might get you started
[00:05:59] But I think
[00:06:00] I do have a belief that if you really want to know what your number is
[00:06:03] This process really helps not only to understand it but to embody it and go. Oh my gosh
[00:06:09] I'm a three because I am a three right? It's like wow
[00:06:12] And so we're going to do one panel on friday night and then saturday
[00:06:16] It's going to be doing panels interview panels of all the different numbers so that people can get a really good understanding of them
[00:06:22] So saturday from nine to four. Oh, that sounds awesome. And you and I like that
[00:06:27] You know morale moral code that goes with the Enneagram that you don't get to diagnose other people
[00:06:32] You get the information and diagnose yourself. I really like that and you know your confusion about six or six thirty
[00:06:37] I do have to say does not beat my um declaration the week before Easter sunday here
[00:06:41] I've just joined us next week for Easter sunday at nine and 11. It's eight and 10. Josh. It's eight and 10
[00:06:47] Thank god. I don't think anyone showed up at 11, but if you did
[00:06:50] They're my personal well, and then I also uh was at my former church a couple weeks ago
[00:06:55] So now every time I go to talk about mile height church. I want to say new vision center
[00:06:59] And when i'm there, I want to say mile height. It's just it's it's a way the brain works
[00:07:03] It does it does
[00:07:04] So you I think one of the things that's exciting about having
[00:07:08] Enneagram here and it's not in a lot of science of mind and spirit
[00:07:13] Classes and so you know having someone who's a minister of centers for spiritual living and doing the enneagram
[00:07:19] You know i'm interested to hear you know where particularly you see these philosophies interconnecting in a way that
[00:07:25] Supports people well the first part that I've been really theorizing and i'm still
[00:07:30] pondering about is this whole notion of our essence
[00:07:33] And because we talk about in our teaching a belief that there's a
[00:07:37] An aspect of us that is the divine that the infinite is expressing through that
[00:07:42] And that it's like each one of us is a unique
[00:07:45] Expression of that a snowflake our own fingerprint are unique
[00:07:49] Who we are and I think that this work in the enneagram is part of that and it it just allows
[00:07:56] A deeper understanding of my essence
[00:07:58] So if I know my number and I and I really study the essence of those numbers and I study the virtues
[00:08:05] And the values and the the beautiful things that each person
[00:08:10] Brings who's in every single one of those numbers to the world it feels almost like it helps me
[00:08:17] Consider my unique expression in the world in a different way and it gives me something because a lot of people go
[00:08:23] Well, what's my purpose or what's unique about me? I'm just another person
[00:08:27] I just but this kind of helps us
[00:08:30] I think sort of claim a high level unique stamp of who we are
[00:08:35] In the world and what we bring that i'm still working on articulating. So that's an important part of it
[00:08:40] I've also been thinking about it in terms of
[00:08:43] groups like we are
[00:08:45] Ministers to this large group of people
[00:08:48] And sometimes it's hard to know what will best serve this large group of people
[00:08:52] And I've been I've been creating this funny thing with my mom about
[00:08:56] You know, you're a one if you're sitting in church and you look up at the time and you say well
[00:09:01] Josh is a minute over his talk
[00:09:03] Right because the ones are the perfectionist and they like things to be on time
[00:09:06] Whereas a four is going to be like, oh, I hope josh never stops talking. I don't care if he goes on for four hours
[00:09:13] I just that's my wife. That's your wife. I know
[00:09:17] She loves it when josh goes on and on i'm sure she does
[00:09:21] But it's like looking at how do we serve needs and groups not only of a church but a family
[00:09:27] Um a group of people that you're a part of to understand that people are coming from unique perspectives
[00:09:33] Can create a little confusion, but it can also
[00:09:36] Create some things that you say we're going to do this because we know the fours in the room needed or the
[00:09:40] The heart centered people needed or the thinking people need this and the body centered people need this
[00:09:46] And know that not everything is going to work for everybody. Yeah
[00:09:48] Yeah, it celebrates uniqueness, which I love that and you know helps us in our our self-awareness and
[00:09:54] You know, although you know that rule is that the integram your integram never changes
[00:09:57] It doesn't mean that your understanding of it doesn't evolve and yes exactly and you know that transformation can can happen
[00:10:04] And you know, there's the old
[00:10:06] Your book, please understand me that uses the myers priggs and I'll always remember my son
[00:10:12] Getting in trouble at school and being suspended for the day and having to take him to
[00:10:16] You know my church office and he was only
[00:10:19] Oh, you know, he was nine or ten years old and I didn't know what to do with him and I said, you know
[00:10:24] Go ahead and take this myers priggs thing and I know that's not integram
[00:10:28] But I always remember learning so much from him about that about his craving for organization
[00:10:33] Or different things like that too and maybe some of that has evolved and changed
[00:10:36] But it helped me to do things like we need to get him a bento box for his lunch because he likes organization
[00:10:41] Or you know, he says he doesn't like math, but he actually really does and so there's something about
[00:10:46] You know integram in particular that can help us understand ourselves
[00:10:49] So that we can communicate with people how to best support us and help us understand people that we love
[00:10:55] In such a way that it really improves relationships
[00:10:57] And you know, I think so much of science of mind is recognizing that that self-awareness is
[00:11:02] Kind of a sacrament and relationships are a sacrament and so they can really help us
[00:11:08] You know not label each other
[00:11:10] But understand each other
[00:11:13] You know mile high church like lots of other folks. They were doing the emergenetics for a while
[00:11:17] Which is really cool self-awareness
[00:11:18] But I had a problem with it because you would be you know, it talks about red is relational and yellows conceptual and greens organized
[00:11:25] So, you know, we might have an employee here that didn't have very much green
[00:11:28] And so they wouldn't be put on any committees that they required organization can't round the stress
[00:11:32] You have no green you're greenless. So it would become like kind of discriminatory if you weren't careful
[00:11:38] And that's what I love about the integram too is that it's very
[00:11:41] Open-ended and we get to help people draw boundaries and help people understand us so that they can work with us better
[00:11:48] Versus, you know judge or or categorize us
[00:11:52] Yeah
[00:11:52] And part of what we've been working with that I've really enjoyed learning is what you said earlier when you were talking about my mom
[00:11:58] And her assessment of our relationship is that number one you have qualities of every number
[00:12:04] We believe but every number has what we call their matrix
[00:12:08] Which has to do with the numbers next to them and the numbers across from them
[00:12:12] And all of that influences us and it helps us understand other people
[00:12:16] So I love that so you're not put in a box and we really teach people don't put each other in a box
[00:12:21] Help to understand each other and when I understand that your motivation is always to help me
[00:12:27] That that's always what you're trying to do. It makes me understand you better and it makes me go
[00:12:31] Okay, he's not trying to do what I think he's trying
[00:12:33] He's really trying to help me here
[00:12:35] And so let me just be with that and see how that is helping me and be thankful for that and be grateful for that
[00:12:41] And we'll talk about it kind of thing
[00:12:42] And you might be like michelle's just trying to stand up there and look beautiful and talk so loud and be
[00:12:46] So crazy and that sort of thing but you have that three connection too
[00:12:49] So you can kind of understand me so you're right. It really helps us
[00:12:53] Understand and connect with each other in a better way. That's great. That's great. Well, I hope a lot of people take the workshop
[00:12:58] I think it's a great opportunity to get new people who are interested this
[00:13:01] Into mile high and just a lot of fun. I think it also is really relevant to people in their lives
[00:13:06] So i'm really glad that you've taken this
[00:13:09] Personal step of growth and that we all get to benefit from it. Thank you. I'm having fun and that's great
[00:13:14] All right. Nice talking with you michelle. Thank you