Michelle and Roger talk about financial wellness
[00:00:00] Hi there, welcome to the Mile Hi Church Podcast. This is Michelle Medrano and I'm so happy that you've tuned in today. We are going to talk about financial wellness. I'm happy to be leading a ministry here at Mile High Church all about financial wellness. Our purpose and our vision is to help people experience greater balance and joy and abundance in their financial life. And so we've been offering workshops, practical tools for managing your finances, as well
[00:00:29] as partnering all of that with some great work in consciousness. That actually I think comes first, you got to do that deep work to embrace a consciousness of abundance and then it starts to follow and having tools under our belts makes us feel so confident. So we're starting a series of podcasts to also bring in some great thought leaders to talk to us about their experience of financial wellness, what they think it takes to be well as a financial
[00:00:59] being. And my podcast guest today is one of my favorite people on the planet. I know many of you know him. He is our former lead minister here at Mile High Church. He's our lead minister emeritus. Dr. Roger Teal is here with us. He also has a really great ministry that he'll tell us about later on in the podcast and I also want to point to his book because he's got a great book and we want to be sure you know where to get it. So welcome Dr. Roger.
[00:01:28] Hi Michelle, I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me. My pleasure. It is so, so great to get to be here with you in this space and see your beautiful face and just get to have a conversation with you. And I also know that you're such a wise person that you can bring so much to our listeners about so many topics and especially financial wellness. So can you tell us a little bit about your own journey in life with regards to financial wellness?
[00:01:57] I mean, I know like I was a struggling college kid, but there were some things that I did in my life that really made a difference. And you've been involved in this teaching for so many years. I bet you were greatly influenced as a young person with regards to our principles and money. Is that true? Oh yeah. Well, you know, I came up in Mile High Church as a teen, as did you. And I heard the message. I heard the message that this is an abundant universe and we can open ourselves to that.
[00:02:26] And I stored that message in, felt good about it. And quite frankly, secretly, I hope it happens for me sometime. And then I went to the University of Denver, got my degree there, and then went out to our School of Ministry on the West Coast and started in on that and was most of the way through when I heard that an internship was available in Seal Beach, California, which is just below Long Beach. And a wonderful minister there, maybe you remember Dodie Derenforth. I do.
[00:02:56] And she had a thriving church there and she would accept interns. And everybody wanted it because everybody went on and did well after working with Dodie and training with her. So I applied and lo and behold, I was accepted. And so I went down there and about the time I got there and she would assign me certain little duties. One day I went into the office and she was in a fit of frustration because yet again, a facility
[00:03:24] they were using for their Sunday services was no longer going to be available. They were renting a theater and the theater had decided not to open any longer on Sundays. And so now she was looking yet again, and this had happened previously because they didn't have a church home. She was looking yet again for a place to hold services. And I was talking to her about it and she gave me a bit of the history of where they had been. And at one point she said, you know what? You've got fresh eyes. You don't know Seal Beach. Drive around. Get to know the city and let me know if you see anything. We're at a loss.
[00:03:53] And so I did. It's a beautiful little community. So I just started driving around there in certain afternoons. And then one time I turned a certain corner and I saw what looked like an old factory, kind of in disrepair, a small factory of some kind. And then next door to it, I noticed there was a for sale sign on a small office building, a two-story office building. And I thought, well, that could be an interesting possibility. At least it's some real estate here in this little town. So I went back, told her about it. She called her board president.
[00:04:23] They went out and they surveyed it and they got all excited. They called in some engineers, some architects. And lo and behold, they said, this is it. We can renovate that factory as a sanctuary and a few classrooms. And then we could put an offer in on this apartment building or this office building that can be first floor, could be our offices, classrooms upstairs. Everybody got very excited. And Dodie immediately shifted into fundraising mode.
[00:04:51] And she was a very strong – she was small in stature but strong in consciousness. She went to her board and said, okay, here's what I expect. Next week, I expect to see your pledges on my desk. And you must be leaders in this campaign. I expect to see healthy stretch challenges, stretch contributions and pledges to this campaign. Expect that in a week. And they're all sitting there saying, oh, okay, Dodie. We go.
[00:05:18] And then everybody left and I was about to leave and drive back to L.A. And she said, oh, by the way, Roger, I want your pledge as well. I said, oh, geez, Dodie, you know what? I mean, gosh, I'm finishing my sixth year in school. I'm broke, Dodie. I'm broke. I had been working playing banjo at Shakey's for most of the evenings for those six years. And that was enough to pay my rent and pay for food and things.
[00:05:45] But, man, there wasn't much left over, especially driving down to Seal Beach and the gas and everything. She said, oh, Roger, wait a minute. If you're going into this ministry to teach this stuff, it's about time you started to use it. So you need to go pray about this. And you need to be involved in this. And so I gulped. And I think I had a couple of sleepless nights. I was tapped out. And I said, gosh, I'm going to make a pledge and I'm going to have to perform on this pledge and da-da-da-da.
[00:06:16] And but then, you know, something in me said, yeah, this is your time to take this message you've heard about for a number of years and actually start doing it. Mm-hmm. And what I've learned and you know is that consciousness is not just information. It has to become transformation and it becomes transformation through action. Yes. That is congruent. Mm-hmm.
[00:06:41] And the congruent action would be not to assess my abundance on what was in my checking account, which at the time was precious little, but to base it on the truth and to make a claim upon that and to stand with that. Mm-hmm. And so I did. Wow. And I made that which was for me, it seemed unattainable, but it was basically a tithe of what I knew was usually what I could bring in each month. And I gulped and I wrote it down and I gave it to her.
[00:07:10] And she was very appreciative. And in the coming weeks and months, things just started happening, Michelle. I tell you that the tips at Shakey's started going up, up, up. We got some extra jobs that we didn't in any way expect. And I was able to perform on that. Mm-hmm. And in fact, when I left after my six-month stint with her, I continued to perform on that. Mm-hmm.
[00:07:40] And even when I went up to my first ministry in Portland, I continued to fulfill that pledge that I'd made to Dodie. And that was the beginning of me really getting into the flow. Mm-hmm. And doing it. And I saw that the universe responded. Mm-hmm. As I did it, not out of fear, and you might have thought I did it out of fear of Dodie or out of obligation, but I did it because I was intrigued. I've been told this.
[00:08:09] Now it's the time to test it. Mm-hmm. Right. And I did. And that was the beginning of my tithing career, which has gone on for 50 years. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. And what I tell students is that have I experienced along those 50 years fluctuations in my income? Yes. Yes. But my commitment to tithing, which has not varied, has kept me on what I call an upward arc. If your listeners could see me, you'd see my hand going up at an angle into the sky. Yes.
[00:08:37] And what that is is that that is the overall trajectory of my abundance over those 50 years. Now, along the way, there have been fluctuations along that. But if you chart that line, it's been increase all the time. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so for me, it became an essential practice. And when I asked Erica to marry me, I said, nah, hon, you know, there's something I do you need to know about. I don't know if you're comfortable. And I think she braced herself.
[00:09:07] She didn't know what I was going to say. Oh, my goodness. I said, I tithe. And she said, what is that? I said, well, I give a tenth off the top. Mm-hmm. And I do it as a spiritual practice. Mm-hmm. I do it because it feels so good to give back to source, which has given me everything. You see, nobody listening to us created themselves. No. They don't create the process by which substances turn into energy. I mean, we're a part of this miracle. Mm-hmm. And I said, it is my pleasure to give this back.
[00:09:36] And I don't play games with it. It's off the top. Mm-hmm. And I do it because I love it. Mm-hmm. And she said, oh, well, we must keep doing that. And she's been just as ardent and just as enthusiastic about it. Mm-hmm. So that's how I began and how I continue. And it's seen me well into retirement. And everybody speaks of retirement as the lean years. I just don't accept that. Mm-hmm.
[00:10:02] I've got my own smaller ministry that's a part of CSL, a part of our teaching. And I'm doing tremendously. I feel good about it. Mm-hmm. So for the listeners, you know, there comes a time when we actually start doing what we've been hearing about and addressing the fears, the reluctances, and the scarcity belief systems that we pick up along the way. Yes. Yes.
[00:10:31] Many do and from different ways, different sources. And actually, everybody has a ceiling to their abundance consciousness or prosperity consciousness. And the good news about that is that ceiling can be flexed to a greater degree. No, it sure can. Yes. But it takes imagination, commitment. But here's the deal. And interrupt me if you want to.
[00:10:58] No, I'm really enjoying this and I suspect anyone listening is too. This is very powerful. You know me. Plug me in and stand back. But what I've come to understand is no one has an abundance problem. Mm-hmm. No. Because abundance is the nature of our source. The abundance of this universe is the presence and the activity and the life energy of the source. It is infinite and without limit. What we often have to address is the ceiling of our prosperity consciousness. Right.
[00:11:28] My prosperity is how much of the limitless abundance that I'm already a part of I'm letting into my life, letting through into my life. Mm-hmm. So that's the first thing to understand is that prosperity is our work, not abundance. Mm-hmm. But to work with our consciousness because consciousness, which is the sum total of everything we've ever believed, said, or done, that consciousness is the valve. It's the outlet through which abundance flows. Mm-hmm.
[00:11:55] So if I want to expand my prosperity, it's not a problem of the universe. I need to pray for more abundance. What I have to work with is expanding my consciousness, expanding the ceiling of my acceptance. Mm-hmm. And one of the best ways to do that is to remember that we have to work with the energy flow of the universe. Yes, yes, absolutely. Everything in this universe is an energy flow, and it took me a while to learn that. Mm-hmm. But if you look at our bodies, there's a giving and a receiving going on all the time.
[00:12:25] Yes. Mm-hmm. Our bodies, there's the diastole and systole of the heart. I think I just mispronounced those words. Oh, my goodness. Those are big words. But it's the— Those are big words for a podcast. It is. And I've just abused them. It's the intake and the outflow of the heart. Okay, sure. Mm-hmm. There's the lungs that we breathe in. Mm-hmm. Oxygen, we give out CO2. Yep. Everything in our body is in this flow of energy. Mm-hmm. You look at nature.
[00:12:56] Mm-hmm. The trees, they take in CO2 and they give oxygen. Mm-hmm. The plants, they receive nutrients and light and water, and then they give forth the harvest. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Everything around is participating in this flow of energies. But we humans sometimes in our thought processes try to get a hedge on that and just want to receive— Right.
[00:13:23] —the energy, receive the abundance, receive the money, receive the love, receive, but not impart it. Right. And that's just not how the universe works. Yes. Mm-hmm. So our job is to get back into the principle of the flow. Mm-hmm. As I did way back when, even though my knees were shaking when I did it. Mm-hmm. Get back into that flow and trust it and commit to it, not just as an abracadabra. Like, I'll try it once and if it doesn't work, I'll never go again. Yes, yes. But as an ongoing commitment.
[00:13:52] And know that as we're doing it, we're working with our—we're flexing our acceptance, our consciousness, our deep felt sense that we are secure, that we are in the flow, that our good comes to us in expected but even more so in unexpected ways, especially when we're in the flow process of the universe. Right. Because then it can support us and lead us to new opportunities, new outlets.
[00:14:21] But if we start shutting down and clogging ourselves with scarcity and fear thinking, and my God, so much of that gets broadcast nowadays. It sure does. From so many different sources. Mm-hmm. And we're all susceptible. So we got to work with our consciousness regularly and stay in this awareness. What you've outlined to me, I often say, is like if we only were trying to breathe in all the time and never breathe out, we would suffocate. And that's what I think a lot of us are doing to ourselves in a lot of areas.
[00:14:49] We're just suffocating because we're not expanding that flowing, that energy, that consciousness to allow the flow. And we're not in action about it too. So brilliant to talk about the place that a lot of us get stuck because we think a lot about these things, but we don't take the actions that align with that confident awareness. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And one of the notions we have to really work within ourselves is that our giving depletes us. Yes, that is very important, isn't it?
[00:15:18] That giving is losing. Yes. Letting go of something. Mm-hmm. That we're diminished, right? Yeah. And the rational and fear-based ego thinks that that's absolutely true. I had this amount and I gave some of it away and I have a lesser amount. Mm-hmm. But spiritual understanding realizes that I have invested this in the universal process.
[00:15:43] I am now participating, not holding back hoping that something's going to change when I haven't changed. Mm-hmm. But we're participating and we're doing it. And the key thing about this whole thing of giving and receiving is it can't be done out of obligation. No, it can't. Or fear. Or fear. Mm-hmm. And it can't be done from a sense of getting. Manipulation.
[00:16:10] I'm going to give this, but I've been told I'm going to get an overflow back. Yes. Which in principle over time does happen. Mm-hmm. The abundance grows and the momentum takes us forward. But there's a deeper reason to give. Mm-hmm. And I think it's twofold for me, but some feel it's only one. But for me, first of all, it feels good. Yes. The inner child loves to give. Yes.
[00:16:39] I've got grandkids and the little guy, three years old, he just loves to give us stuff whenever we go there. Last trip we were on, he gave this big stuffed giraffe to Erica. Oh, cute. And she's smart enough that she didn't say, oh, no, no, I couldn't. She took it and received it. And he was so happy. Mm-hmm. And he gave me a little contraption that I still haven't quite figured out the other night. And I remember when I was a kid, even if it was a rock or a stone or a leaf that I thought was great,
[00:17:07] I just couldn't find, I couldn't wait to find somebody to give it to. So there's a part of our nature that loves to give. Yes, absolutely. When we get over all the nonsense we've accepted about giving, the misinformation. But the biggest reason is not only the joy, but it's our nature. It is our nature, yes, I agree. It's our inherent nature to be a part of this symphony of life and giving.
[00:17:34] The sad thing is that so much misinformation and fear is broadcast that it makes it difficult to remember our essence. It does. Mm-hmm. It's the Father's good pleasure to give us the kingdom of all good. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.
[00:18:03] The kingdom of heaven is the kingdom of ever-expanding good. Yes. And we're part of it. And a part of our spiritual maturity is to take up our citizenry and our birthright and act very consciously and masterfully in this area of abundance so that our lives blossom. And we're talking not just about money. No, yeah. Although resources, for most people, their dreams require resources. They do. Mm-hmm.
[00:18:31] So you better have a good prosperity practices going on there. Mm-hmm. But we're also talking about creativity. Mm-hmm. Interest, involvement, love. Mm-hmm. All those things. Mm-hmm. We want to prosper. Mm-hmm. Yes, yes. And I often will tell students who work with me, look for the areas, identify the one or two areas in your life where you struggle. Mm-hmm.
[00:18:59] And this week, I want you to intently and joyfully give into those areas. Beautiful. Yes. That's good. You're leading to my next question. I was going to say, articulate some more things that you think people could do. And that's a beautiful one. Yeah. Isn't it? If it's more love in your life, you can't just pray for Mr. or Ms. Right and sit at home waiting for the doorbell to ring. Right.
[00:19:29] It's how much love am I giving? Mm-hmm. How much interest am I expressing to people? Mm-hmm. How much involvement am I willing to look at how I hold back and take some steps? They don't have to be huge. They can be baby steps, but can I open up my life more in the giving area? Yeah. Can I be more generous in some way? Yeah. Mm-hmm.
[00:19:58] In one's work life, it's one thing to pray for promotion. But to what degree am I giving my heart to this organization or this enterprise? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. To what degree am I contributing new ideas, even beyond the scope of my position description? Mm-hmm. Do they get that I'm on board, that I'm giving, that I care? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, see, in every area of our life, we can stretch that ceiling. Yes.
[00:20:27] And open up to greater giving. Yes, in my life, often the place where I struggle with lack consciousness is time. Oh, gotcha. I always feel like I don't have enough time to do the things I want to do. So when I start to feel that way too much, I stop, I make myself stop and say, where can I give somebody some of my time today? Is there a place where I can, am I volunteering? Am I serving? Am I giving away my time so that I can feel that expansive feeling? Yeah. Yeah.
[00:20:55] Because like you, I have enjoyed the expansiveness of being a generous person financially, and that's now very easy and joyful for me. And I have to look at any place where I get caught up in not enoughness and do exactly what you're talking about. Yeah. A long time ago, and I may have shared this on a personal level with you, when I was steeped in this ministry, and Eric and I hadn't been married all that many years, we just had to
[00:21:22] both grapple, and I think she took the lead on this, that there wasn't enough time for us as a couple. Right. And I was doing okay with the boys, our sons, but I could have done better there too. And I said, God, honey, it's just so much. And she said, well, let's make a plan. And so we got one of those posters that have all 12 months on it. Yes, yes.
[00:21:47] And we got a year out beyond where we were, and we scheduled in a couple of weekends throughout the year. We scheduled in three or four weeks of vacation time, which I was due. And we scheduled in time with the boys, and we got a plan. And date nights too. And date nights. We started doing Friday evening date nights, and if we had something like a new member night on Friday, we'd reschedule it, but we wouldn't drop it. Right.
[00:22:11] And yeah, we did all of that and discovered that the rest settled in fine around it. Mm-hmm. And I then had to look at that in terms of my giving this to myself. Sure. As well. Very good, yes. Because I would often teach First Things First. Mm-hmm. Yes. The book by Stephen Covey. Yes. Mm-hmm. Then it dawned on me, maybe you ought to practice this time.
[00:22:35] And I realized that I was giving more to my family, and I was giving tons to the church, but I wasn't always giving what was important to me. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And what that methodology teaches is if you start slacking on the important things like
[00:22:54] self-care, meditation, exercise, preparation, fun, if you start slacking on that, what will arise in your life is urgency. Mm-hmm. And then the problems will arise because you're not giving to the important aspects of your life. Right, right, yes. So that's another factor in this whole abundance thing. Uh-huh.
[00:23:21] You got to believe, and of course, the classic illustration that Covey did was having this big glass jug. Oh, that jar of rocks, yes. And he had some big fist-sized rocks in it when his students arrived. And he said, is the jar full? And they said, no, it's not. They said, yeah, it's full. You can't get any more of those big rocks. And he said, oh, yes, it's not full. And he got some pea-sized gravel, and he started pouring it around the spaces, and it filled that. And then he says, is it full? And they caught on. And they said, no, it's not. You're right. And you got some sand, and you poured it in there, and it filled it in.
[00:23:51] And he says, is it full? And some thought maybe, but some said, no, no, no. He said, oh, you're right, and you got some water. And he poured that in. And they said, is it full? And then there was silence. He said, yeah, it's full. What's the meaning of this illustration? And one student says, well, you can always get more into your life. And he said, wrong. That is not the meaning of this. The meaning of this example is that if I hadn't put the big rocks in first, they would never have gotten in. Right. They wouldn't have been able to fit.
[00:24:21] They wouldn't have gotten in. And the big rocks are the gifts we give ourselves that evolve us. Taking classes at Mile High Church or online through Mile High. Being with a practitioner. Learning to meditate and pray and finding slices of your day for that. Exercise, nutrition. The things, these are important. They're not going to force themselves upon any of us. No, no.
[00:24:48] It takes our willingness to give those gifts to ourselves so that we can then give. And then we'll find everything else can settle in that we can still get it done. Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. That's a little bit of a digression, but maybe not really. No, no. I think it's very much in alignment with what you've been talking about. Because big rock is generosity and giving and sharing. That's another one. Yes. Our tithing program. Yes. Our conscious giving. Yes. Our committed giving. And that's the thing about tithing.
[00:25:16] And not everybody is probably, they might overwhelm the system of their consciousness growth to immediately go to 10%. Right. Yes. You don't want to overwhelm the system. You just want to have an intention to arrive there. Mm-hmm. But start at a level that feels like a stretch and feels meaningful, but doesn't activate enormous amounts of fear until you get used to it. Yeah. But the thing is, it has to be a non-negotiable commitment with yourself. It does. Mm-hmm.
[00:25:44] It means I'm going to be giving this from now on until, and the only change will be until I choose to increase it. Right. When it becomes too easy. Right. And I want to work this system even more. Mm-hmm. And plug in even more. And so it's not just, oh, I'll try it for a month and see if something happens. No. Because it's kind of like having an ace in the whole area, in our back pocket. Mm-hmm. It's like a way out. Mm-hmm.
[00:26:13] I think in spiritual life that often happens is folks say they're ready to bail if immediately things don't work. Right. But we've taken many years to assemble the facets of our consciousness. We have. To be compassionate with, but yet principled with ourself. Mm-hmm. Rigorous but compassionate in stretching our consciousness through congruent practices in our life and just keep going with it.
[00:26:42] But we can't hold this subtle idea in the back of my mind. Well, but if it doesn't work in a couple months, I'm out. I'll quit. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Because that very idea is sabotaging us. It sure is. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. Well, thank you for all these wise thoughts. Well. My goodness. Plug me in. You're a wise guy. You know that. You definitely know that. But I really am glad you're working on this financial wellness. Yeah. Me too.
[00:27:11] I like calling it wellness because I feel like that experience of abundance does come from the wellspring within. And it's about finding our wellness in it, not some marching down. I got to have this and I got to have that. You know, that whole new thought kind of energy that people sometimes have about it. It's wellness. Yeah. You just want to be well. Because it's a part of being healthy. Yes, it is. It's a big part of being healthy. Yes. Yes.
[00:27:38] Now, please tell our listeners before we sign off, tell us a little bit about your ministry that you're doing. I think you mentioned it on Sunday. You mentioned your website and stuff. How can people get in touch with you if they want to work with you? Well, it's pretty complicated, but it's rogerteal.com. It's T-E-E. T-E-E.
[00:28:08] Yes, absolutely. She's my baby. I've loved it for so many years. And I support you folks as much as I can. And so I've got Roger Teal Ministries. And what I do is I do small groups. Right now, they start with dream building groups, but then more and more classes lead into deeper spiritual studies. Oh, wonderful. But it starts out with dream building so that people can learn the technologies and assemble the tools to move steadily into more of the life they'd love to live.
[00:28:38] Great. And I work also with individuals who are very serious about their growth and empowerment. The dream building groups are usually three months, 12 sessions once a week. And it's six months for the consulting, the personal empowerment coaching. So that's what I've been doing. And then I'm going to maybe start my own podcast here in a while. Oh, fantastic. Oh, good.
[00:29:05] And whatever else Spirit guides me to do while I also just spend a little more time studying and deepening myself and some of that stuff that got put on a back burner when you were working so hard. I was doing what you were doing. Yeah, exactly. Great. Thank you. Thank you. And I wrote a book. Yes, I want to say, I know that we have This Life is Joy is his wonderful book. We still use it in classes. And it's in our store here at Mile Hi Church.
[00:29:32] But people can also get it on Amazon and other places that they can pick it up. I think that's the chief one that I know of. Okay. This Life is Joy. Beautiful, beautiful book. You got another one coming out anytime soon? It's tickling in the back of my mind. I figured it would be. That's great. Well, great. Thanks, Michelle. Thanks for having me. My pleasure, Dr. Roger. It's been wonderful to be here with you. And thank you all for tuning in. We will have some more wonderful podcast guests coming up for financial wellness in the coming weeks and months.
[00:30:00] So many blessings to you all. See you at Mile High Church. And you can find us at milehighchurch.org. Bye now.