Tamara + Caroline Kasey - Two Generations of Real Estate

[00:00:01] Welcome to Highest and Best, a podcast for women in real estate, where we explore the freedoms and complexities of this high-intensity career. From candid conversations with top agents to inspiring interviews with coaches, researchers, athletes, and female executives, we share valuable tools to help you stay calm, confident, and continue to show up as your highest and best self. Thanks so much for listening.

[00:00:26] Welcome to Highest and Best. On the podcast today, we have a powerhouse mother and daughter duo representing two of the most dynamic markets in the country. First, we have Tamara Kasey, a premier top broker in the Chicago market and the founder of the Kasey Group, with more than two decades in real estate and a background in interior design and development and financial planning. So much to ask you about, Tamara. And then joining us is her daughter, Caroline, who's building a thriving real estate company.

[00:00:56] She's a great practice in New York. So we're going to talk about both of your perspectives about the industry, how you guys collaborate, how you see things differently. We're just going to have a good time. So welcome to the podcast, Kasey, ladies. Thank you for having us. Yeah, I'm going to start with you, Tam, because I know that you've been in this for so long. So take us back to the beginning. How did this get started for you? And give me a few of the big kind of evolutionary points of how you built your business.

[00:01:26] Okay. So I grew up in a real estate family myself. My mom was in the business for 40 years, number one agent with Coble Banker in Tulsa, Oklahoma. She did a lot of development as well. So we moved from Kansas City to Dallas to ended up in Tulsa when I was in college. So this is where her real estate started.

[00:01:45] I would say that because I grew up in it and I saw at the time when they didn't have what we have now with technology, our phone would be ringing at 11 o'clock. I think that still happens. Oh, they had a house phone.

[00:01:58] Yeah, the landline. And I would go with her. I would go with her and I'd be home from college and I would go with her and I would picture a room and decorate it for them and sell these properties for her because I just was naturally like, I would put, I would do this over here and I would do this here. And it was just a natural thing. And people would go, yeah. And my mom, it wasn't her selling. It was me.

[00:02:19] I started that way. I said I would never go in the business though because of it. Moved to Chicago. My background was in the apparel business. I was a wholesale apparel rep out of Dallas. And for seven years, I had a job offer with Ralph Lauren in New York. I had three dogs and was going to move to New York. They couldn't pay me enough compared to what I was already making with my other business. So I ended up in Chicago and I was still doing my apparel work, but I was traveling, working out of the apparel center in Chicago.

[00:02:48] Got burnout. I tried to decide what am I going to do next? I thought I'll use my degree. I have a, my degree was in interior design and textiles. I was in apparel. I worked for Herman Miller in Chicago, met my husband, got married. And during that kind of transition in careers, decided to get my real estate license. I wasn't quite sure if I was cut out for it in Chicago, to tell you the truth. It was tough. It was a tough market. I was used to different types of personalities.

[00:03:17] Ended up moving to the North Shore and to raise. So I was in the city for 15 years, moved to the North Shore to raise the kids. And that's really when my business took off at that point. So I've been in the business now almost 25 years. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Caroline, third generation realtor. I'm so curious. Did you have the same feeling as your mom growing up? Oh, I could maybe do this. Or how did you decide this was going to be your path?

[00:03:46] It's so funny. So obviously I had the exact same thought that my mom said, not obviously, but I had the same thought she said where it was like, I will never get into real estate. I said, you know, it was an eighth grade during the 2008 crash. And I was like, I want stability. I never want to go through that. I saw how my mom was just so powerful and strong through all of it. And she killed it. But I did grow up going to open houses and helping my mom. And I was around it my whole life.

[00:04:11] And I always looked up to my mom as she's just so incredible for her. I don't want to do that. And then when I graduated, I moved to New York and I tried everything. But I was, I worked in e-commerce. I did the startup thing in New York. I did event production for about four years.

[00:04:30] I went back to school during COVID, got a marketing degree. I was like, okay, this is my path. And then as I got a little older, I was like, there's too many ceilings here. Like, what can I do that's going to give me the life that I want? And I love marketing. I love people. I love operations. I love social media. Like what? Oh, maybe all those things can buy.

[00:04:54] Yeah. Yeah. And so that's how I decided to get my license. And I studied for my exam. And then I told my mom and she was so excited. She didn't tell me any of this. It came out on her own. She just announced it. I'm getting my license. Anything that I say do, they won't do. But she did. She made that decision on her own.

[00:05:13] Yeah. You know, it's so interesting that you both say like, I'm not going to do that. I felt like real estate kind of knocked at my door through all my adult life. I was in Jackson Hole for 10 years and people would be like, oh, you should do real estate. And I just remember having this like, ugh, like gut reaction. I'm like, no, I was working in marketing in the ski industry. I couldn't have been happier.

[00:05:34] You know, and it just kind of kept like knocking. And I would always be like, absolutely not. Absolutely not. But you're right, Caroline. It's even today when I think about it as a single mom, I'm in my mid 40s. There's no job that I think gives the amount of freedom this job gives, even though some people say there's no freedom in real estate. My kiddo was homesick Monday through Wednesday of this week and I was able to be here. Right. Yeah. And there's no ceiling. It's also a different kind of freedom, too.

[00:06:02] It's a different kind of freedom. Yeah. And there, I mean, there really is no ceiling to how much money you can make. And every other career maxes out at a certain amount. And especially in New York City, arguably the most expensive place to live. You know, having a job that gives you that potential, I think, is huge.

[00:06:18] And I'm so curious and I have to ask you because as a realtor in Boulder, Colorado, thinking about being a realtor in New York is so mind blowing for me in terms of just like the competition and it being super cutthroat, even all the way down to how do you get to seven properties in a day with a client? Like, do you get a car? Do you have a tax? Like the whole thing blows my mind. So tell me about.

[00:06:42] As someone who didn't feel like they were right for real estate because of how unstable it might have been now, you're a realtor in Manhattan. So what is that world like? How are you navigating it as a fairly new realtor? I think that real estate in New York has a reputation of being super intense. And it is. I mean, there's like my mom said, she was used to personalities in Oklahoma and then she went to Chicago.

[00:07:05] I leveled up from there to like I'm like the Midwest. Everyone is so nice. And in New York, it's a little different. But, you know, you find your people and it's fast paced. There's a lot going on. I'm someone that wants I did event production. I want something different every day. I don't like sitting in front of a spreadsheet all day. I like new things all the time. And so real estate really provides that, especially in New York.

[00:07:29] Yeah, it's funny that you say, how do you get seven people? I will tell my mom, oh, I had such a busy day. I had to be in the Upper West Side for this. And then I had to go get a smoke detector and then had a closing in Williamsburg and then had to go to the Upper East Side for a Junior League meeting. I'd listed three things, but that took me 12 hours. That's what I mean. It's like, how do you I don't know how you do it. Or even when I think about trying to get the windows that I made, like my showing windows and I'm just driving around Boulder and I'm still hoping I make it in time.

[00:07:59] I'm like, how do you take someone on a full day of tours? It blows my mind. I would not be able to do it. It's magic. But also I think that Compass, honestly, I really utilize like the tour tool on Compass. Yes. It's really helpful. And then also like everyone in New York is doing the same thing. So agents understand there's grace periods, a little bit longer windows of open houses sometimes. And then you chunk it into neighborhoods.

[00:08:23] If someone wants to see Tribeca and also the Upper East Side to look, I'm not going to show those on the same day. Typically, I would section this off. Okay. Okay. That makes a little bit. That seems fair. Tamara, I'm so curious when you got the call from Caroline that she had gotten her license and this was going to be her path. It sounds like you were excited. Was that your first kind of feeling was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing. We're going to do the same thing. Or were you like, oh shoot. Okay.

[00:08:53] No, I was thrilled. I was thrilled. So because of Compass and all of our relationships that we have everywhere, I knew so many people in New York City already. So she was able to connect and network with people and kind of figure out, you know, what path she wanted to take as far as teams and her experience. And I think that was helpful to have her be connected right off the bat with people I know.

[00:09:17] And so, of course, whenever I come into town, we're always having dinners together with my – and she was always – before real estate, she was – maybe that's part of the reason she was interested. She was already becoming connected with my relationships that I had there. So I think it was just an easier, I think, it was smoother transition because she had – but I will say sometimes she calls me and will ask me, how do I do this? How do I do this? Because she doesn't want to bother her team lead. I can't help. I don't – I know negotiations.

[00:09:48] I know basic things as far as – that are standard across all markets. But New York's a different contract. New York's a different way of doing business. I can't advise how they do their inspections and all those things. I just can't advise on that. So behind the scenes, I help, but I can't be that person that she needs help from her team lead. Yeah. Right now, she's killing it. It sounds like it. Caroline, that was my next question. Do you call mom for advice?

[00:10:16] Like, when did those calls to mom happen? You know, I've got – my dad is 82 and he was a real estate attorney in small towns forever. But I still love being up the phone and being like, hey, dad, let me talk to you about this clause that I'm writing. You know, and it gets his brain back in it. But it's so nice to have somebody that understands it a little bit on your home team. But what are you calling mom about these days? I don't know if it's obvious, but my mom is like my best friend. So I call her for everything, not just real estate related. It all seems together. Yeah.

[00:10:46] Yeah. Like, every time I'm walking anywhere, I give her a call, which she gets sick of, but it's fine. I – Never. But, you know, I think when I first got my license, I was calling her a lot more because I was, like, nervous. I was used to the corporate world where, like, when you're calling your boss for a question, it's like, okay, you should know this. Like, why are you asking? You got the job for a reason. But I had to sort of get used to, like, no, like, that's what a team lead or an operations director is for.

[00:11:15] Like, they're there – you know, depending on what team you're on, they're there to make sure that you're filling out the board package correctly. Or, like, you know the rules with the co-op. And so I feel like I called my mom a lot in my first year for things. And then now as I've gotten a little bit more confident and more used to it, I don't call her as much about the nitty-gritty, like, things that I shouldn't. But we definitely talk about strategy and marketing all the time.

[00:11:44] We talk about networking and should I have a first-time homebuyer event or, like, things like that. So we talk more about, like, the umbrella topics now versus, like, how do I submit a lease for a renter? Like, that kind of stuff. It's such an interesting career, and I'm so glad you brought that up because I think, especially for those who've gotten into it, you know, after being out of school for a while or later in their life, because you do have to be a beginner forever.

[00:12:13] Because there's always going to be something new every year that you're in real estate that you haven't dealt with before. There's always going to be something that you're going to need to reach out to your realtor crew and say, hey, guys, have you guys ever dealt with? I just got texted today that was like, hey, does anyone ever, you know, have a meth expert? And I've never had a client buy a house that had a history with meth, but that happens a lot in Colorado, right?

[00:12:32] And you're always going to be asking questions, and I think getting comfortable with the fact that maybe you are just going to be that beginner mindset forever and being comfortable knowing that being a realtor means having a team that's going to support you with all those questions and that you don't have to have the answer to everything and you're not going to have the answer to everything.

[00:12:51] It's a nice kind of hurdle to get through, I think, because I think especially coming from corporate worlds and those of us who were in careers for a long time where we were at an expert level to drop into real estate and be like, oh, I'm, yeah, I'm going to get to know some of these elements pretty well. But I'm never going to be an expert on every piece of this because this job is new every day and the clients are new every day. And the paperwork isn't going to change and the laws are going to change and the world is going to change. And you have to kind of know that you're going to learn along with it.

[00:13:20] And I think that's a different mindset. And that's what I love about it, that we're – because I'm always curious and want to learn. I want to keep learning. And that's what I love about it is being around all these people that are way beyond me. I want to be surrounded by people like that so I can keep growing and learning too. One of the things – and so maybe we'll talk about this in a little bit. But one of the things we did talk about is how to strategize for – as a newer agent in New York City because, you know, we all start as new. And I was new on the North Shore.

[00:13:50] I didn't know anyone. I wasn't from there. So we all have to start there. So anyway, so I'll let you keep asking questions. But yeah, no. What I did want to ask you is, you know, as we all kind of know – and Caroline, you have certainly gotten a sense in the past handful of years at this. There are a lot of terrible realtors who got their license, don't really know what they're doing, but are just doing this. There's a big group of good realtors who I think know the basics. They've got the blocking and tackling down.

[00:14:18] And then there's this special group of really great realtors. And I'm curious, Tamara, in your two decades in this work, what do you think makes that difference? What do you think makes a great realtor? Well, I think it is when you approach your business from the relationship standpoint instead of transactional. And I know that's probably said a lot more now. But I will say I was surrounded by hobbyists. I call them hobbyists. Hobbyists. That's a great term.

[00:14:47] And I tell people, you know, over the years, I'd like, you know, maybe I should get into real estate. And I always tell people it's an expensive hobby because you don't just do this part-time. And so that is where I feel that's what makes the difference in people's business if you really do run it like a business. But also from the relationship standpoint, for me, it's like staying in relationship with those people from generations almost.

[00:15:17] You know, every changing life point that they have, just because we've closed, it's almost like that's where my relationship is starting with them. And creating those deeper relationships. I mean, I have two different groups. This is where being in the business for as long as I have. I have a lot of empty nesters now who are not moving as often. And if they are moving, it's second home market or I'm working with their children.

[00:15:42] And then I have this young group that are moving up from the city who are having their second child, moving to the suburbs, want to be in a school district. And they're all these young moms. And I love these girls so much. So I have this dinner party of anybody who moves to town. I add them to the group chat. And we have this really tight group of young moms because, you know what, they're new. They don't know anyone. They don't have friends. I enjoy that.

[00:16:09] It's almost like having Caroline with me because I enjoy hanging out with these girls. So we do a little holiday Christmas party. I probably do three or four events with them over the year. Then with my empty nesters, I do something different with them and also one-on-one with them. And that's one of the things I do in my business is time block that every single day, like those following up with those people that I'm in relationship with, really staying on top of it. And I just had something just happen. And it's been, you know, over generations.

[00:16:36] But a lot of these young people now, their parents are moving in from out of state to be closer to their kids and their grandkids. So now I'm selling their parents as well. So I just had a house that I just posted this week. It was my very first client that I've ever sold. And it was on Christmas Eve. Christmas Eve, very first deal I ever did, 2001, on the North Shore.

[00:17:02] And it was a girl, a family that her daughter went to kindergarten with Caroline. And they called me and wanted to see a house. I was on my way to Christmas Eve service. I like dropped everything to do it. Never would do that again. But it's paid off because I've then sold them again. They bought, they downsized and bought something else. Then her husband, his mother, I've sold her mother. And then who's now in assisted living.

[00:17:31] So and then I just sold the house he grew up in. That was an estate. His mother died. I sold that to a client of one of my friend, one of my client's parents moving from California. Oh, my God. Who renovated it and just bought another house. So that was like, I can't even tell you. Out of that one Christmas Eve service, I did probably eight transactions with them. Oh, through the process. So that's the relationships I'm talking about. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:01] Caroline, I know that even though your mom is a powerhouse, if I ask her what makes her business unique, she might get a little humble. So I'm going to ask you. After watching your mom for so long do what she does, and I can speak. The minute I got on the phone with you, Tamara, I was like, okay. Midwestern warmth. You're so kind. You're funny. I immediately was like, you're my people. I adore you.

[00:18:27] I can see how you've built this amazing business with that type of personality and care and love. But, Caroline, I'm so interested in your perspective. What do you think keeps these clients with your mom over generations and referring them out? What is this magic special sauce that she's built her longtime career around? Well, I'm so glad you said that about when you first met her because I always tell my friends. I'm like, because my mom and I look shockingly similar. And we're very similar in terms of personality.

[00:18:56] But I always say that she's like the cooler version of me because she just is. Like, she has a way to connect with people, which I hope to be the same. But I think that her personality is great. She obviously has that connection, which is the foundation of everything she does. But she's also really smart. She's really dedicated. And she has these niche interests. So, for instance, I think one thing that really sets her apart is her interior design background.

[00:19:23] And I think that not only does she go in a home and see the four walls and say, here it is. That's a bathroom. That's a kitchen. She's able to say, here's, before you list this, here's a couple things you can do. Or she has this background and knowledge that I think is invaluable to her clients. And I think they really view her as a resource. She mentioned her clients earlier that had redone after they moved from California. They redid their home and then moved again.

[00:19:51] They would have her come over to view along the way when they were renovating. We just want to get your opinion before we install these windows. And we want to make sure you think this bathroom looks good before we seal it or whatever they're doing. So, I think that – I'm on a tangent now. But I think that her niche, like interior design, her personality, and just like how dedicated she is to keeping in touch with her clients really sets her apart. You. You guys are so cute. You guys are so cute.

[00:20:18] As a mom of a three-year-old, I'm like, if my daughter ever says that I'm the cooler version of her, I'm going to laugh out loud. But that's the sweetest thing I've ever heard. I have to ask you guys about processes and systems because that warm personality, you know, you guys have both have that your whole life. But there's also this element of the job, I think, that's like the business side. Tam, as you said, right? And you mentioned earlier that you block out time every day to reach out to your clients. Caroline, I'm going to start with you. And then, Tam, I want to hear your side of it as well.

[00:20:47] What are the things you guys are doing every day to build your business, to continue to connect with your clients? Like what are the things that are feeling like the really important blocking and tackling outside of just the personal connection part? Well, one like little cheat code I had in getting in to real estate was that I was home for seven months during COVID. And my mom, like she really started doing coaching, I think, around that same time.

[00:21:12] And so I got to listen to her coaching calls every single day, even before I was like thinking about real estate. And so I really absorbed how important like processes and systems and working your CRM and like all of that really is. So when I, the second I got my license, I imported every single person into my CRM that I'd ever touched. And so what, like I also follow Ninja. So that's kind of my process is every single morning I do like the Ninja morning routine.

[00:21:40] I write two personal notes a day. I do my three CRM touches. And then because I'm still growing my sphere of influence and like the people that I have in my network, I don't have all these past clients yet. I have a lot of potential. And so I really work hard on connecting. So I'm super involved in my community in New York. I'm in like a handful of book clubs. I'm super involved in New York Junior League.

[00:22:08] And so just basically connecting with people is like my bread and butter at this current point. Gosh, you're smart. You're like love that you got to listen to the coaching for free in the background. That's incredible. I feel like you're already. You're a sponge. Yeah. I mean, and that's why I meant by saying you're so smart. I think you've picked up osmosis over your entire life. You know, your grandmother, your mom.

[00:22:32] And now, of course, like having your own drive clearly to build your business and being dedicated in that way. Tamara, what is your, you know, at this point, what's your daily time blocking or the things that you have to do every week or every month? So I have a morning routine when I wake up, which starts with my gratitudes and, you know, and just really kind of having that quiet time for myself to kind of get my head in the right place. I try to write two handwritten notes, very first thing.

[00:23:00] And I am, I time block. And this comes from my Steve Scholl coaching for six years. I was going to say it's got to be. Yeah. And, you know, Chris Voss and tactical empathy. I mean, it was like really ingrained in me. And so I implement all of that, which it's taken a long time to build these processes and systems and with my voice, in my voice. And so I time block. Everything is time block for me.

[00:23:28] So I try to do everything in the morning as far as the business related things, follow up with any kind of things that are going on with active clients at the time or active business that's in contract. I do have an assistant who helps with this, but also just I'm the one reaching out always in person, you know, checking, making sure I'm on top of the market. I do past client reach outs then too as well. I try to do three times a week a coffee in person or lunch with people.

[00:23:55] Just, yeah, just that's a huge part of my business is staying the staying in touch part of it. It's just identifying who those people are, because just making a phone call sometimes if I would love to make five phone calls a day, that's just doesn't happen with me because one call and I'm on for an hour. So it's like we can't get off. So it's not realistic for me to make all those calls. So I try to make a plan.

[00:24:19] And then I leave my afternoons open for showings or anything else that might fall into place there. So those are doctor's appointments, whatever, you know, personal things. So that's kind of how I've been running it and it works. But I will say with the C, I work my CRM. That's my job. I look at that every day, my dashboard. And that's where I, as long as I can clear that every day, I know my job's done.

[00:24:46] Do you have folks who you have brought onto your team helping you with things at this point? Do you have an assistant? Do you have someone doing your social media? Like, have you hired strategically to support some of those elements that you don't love or that you are fascinated about? Yeah, I have one person on my team. So yes, I have somebody if I need help with showings or something like that will help me. I always try to do my first showings and the last showings, but I'm always involved in negotiations.

[00:25:15] But typically it's me in a different price point. So it's typically me. Then my assistant, I had this in-person assistant for seven years. She left last March, which kind of threw my business crazy. So I went in. It's hard to find someone. And so I hired finally a VA who it took me three times to get to the one we have. So she's amazing.

[00:25:40] I will say that my daughter helps me with operational things now and helps oversee a lot of these with my VA because I just didn't have time to do that. So she'll do a check and call and kind of watch her. And you know, it's funny. I think a lot of agents would appreciate this. But I think bringing on a VA is really hard, especially because as entrepreneurs, my mom has never really managed anyone before. Like, she manages herself really well. She manages her clients really well.

[00:26:07] But she hasn't really had to, like, onboard, offload all the information she stores up here for the last 25 years. She hasn't had to do any of that. And so I, as you can probably tell by this entire conversation, we speak the same language and share brain cells. So I can interpret what she's saying and translate it into someone else. So she had a really hard time bringing on VAs. It was, like, a struggle getting them to onboard. And that could be for a plethora of reasons.

[00:26:37] But when she brought on this third VA, I volunteered to help her with that onboarding process and did a daily half-hour call for three months to, like, get on, you know, say, okay, here are her systems. And, okay, my mom wants this. Here's what she's saying. Here's what she means. And, like, here's how to get there. And so I feel like that was really helpful. But, again, also it's helpful for me because I'm a learning system of a really experienced, amazing agent. And those aren't specific to Chicago.

[00:27:06] They're kind of, like, across the board. You have to tweak it for your own. Yeah, exactly. Interesting. She said to me, she goes, Mom, how do you think you can train somebody in operations when you don't even know what you're talking about? You know what? That's so true. It's like, oh, I just do. I know really in depth, like, all of the – I know Google Suite super well. And I know all of that stuff where my mom is, okay, it's on the drive. And I'm, like, and here's how to get there. And here's where it is.

[00:27:35] And also a team lead who's working at the level of my mom and a lot of agents out there, you don't have time for a daily half-hour call for three months. We need so many hats. There's just so many hats. And just to take some of this off my plate. I had already, with the previous VA, I had done the monthly, the daily calls for three months. And then she disappeared. And it's like, oh, I can't do this again. I just can't do it again. The company I was working with is Sync, S-Y-N-C.

[00:28:06] And I met Tiffany Pantosi, who owns it, through Realm. And she took me under her wing and made sure we got things right. And so I said, I'm only doing it if Caroline can be in charge of the operations side. Yeah. I have had a lot of people having great success with VAs. I interviewed an amazing gal for the podcast who is a systems and processes coach within Cumbit.

[00:28:33] She's also a realtor who sets people up with VAs that she's already in. I think it's such a great avenue. But you have to have the time to train and onboard, right? It's not an Insta thing. Caroline, I'm so curious. As I'm in middle age at this point and I, at 45, I kind of missed – I got the Facebook wave. Obviously, I'm on Instagram, all of that stuff.

[00:28:55] But when you, with kind of your fresh perspective, look at what you think is a successful marketing strategy in real estate, what are you using? Everything from like, are you sending cards to your neighborhoods? Are you doing social media? What feels like the right mix for you right now in terms of kind of promoting and building your business? So I mentioned being super involved in my community. I don't think anything surpasses that actual in-person friendship.

[00:29:24] So I've been vice chair of communications and now operations and auction for the home design committee within Junior League for the last six years. And like, my friendships out of that have so far been really successful in transitioning into real estate, but also just like, people know a lot of people. And so I get referrals from that all the time. I mentioned I'm involved in my book clubs that I have. And like, those aren't – I mean, they're for fun, but they're also instrumental in building relationships.

[00:29:52] But in terms of social media, I use Instagram and I randomly use TikTok. I use TikTok not in the way a traditional real estate agent would, but I just kind of use it for fun. And I post my day in the life, which I also post on Reels on Instagram. And so far, I haven't done anything that's super like – here's my three favorite things I love about living in Tribeca more. But I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I think those are great. I just haven't done it yet.

[00:30:20] But what a lot of my friends that also live in Chicago or live in San Francisco, what they've said they like about my social media is that it's very obvious that I'm in real estate, but it's not shoving it down your throat. It's like – and I also live in New York, so people romanticize the content. They see me on the subway going to a showing and they're like, whoa, that's so cool. I want to do that. And so I actually have gotten a few leads from my TikTok, which is so random, but fun.

[00:30:49] And yeah, so I think like day in the life content people love because it's like, again, me on the subway going to showings and then grabbing lunch with a friend. And then it's me going to another – like a closing or a staging appointment. And then I'm going to dinner with friends later that night. And it's showing life in New York as a whole, but also as a real estate agent too. Yeah. I love it. I agree.

[00:31:16] I think those community connections and the – you know, Tamara, I'm the same as you. It's like I get coffee with people a couple times a week. Yeah. I haven't been writing the daily letters as much. I'm so interested to a day. That's a lot of people over the course of a year. Are you just saying – Hi. Monday through Friday. Yeah. Monday through Friday. Like just say, hi, miss you. Hope you're doing well. Like – Now, you know, right now you give yourself a break when you run out of theater. Obviously, birthday and anniversaries are easy, right?

[00:31:45] So those are always done. But no, it's just paying attention to like what's going on in people's life. Or maybe you ran into them at the grocery store and a friend of mine's husband's having surgery and I sent a note like thinking of you today. You know, just that – just simple. It's not long letters. It's just little simple touch points. That's it. And it's snail mail. Yeah. I think people love it. People love that. Caroline does it too. I get texts all the time from friends being like, you snail mailed me. I loved getting that.

[00:32:13] And like I'll go to my friend's apartments and see my little note on the fridge. And yeah, of course, like sometimes it's – I had a friend recently who had surgery. Like I wrote her a note for that. But those are bigger deals. But yesterday I wrote a note to a friend who I ran into recently and said, you know, I loved getting your travel newsletter that you started. Like it gave me the travel bug. I'd love to get coffee soon. You know, like blah, blah, blah, blah. And that's just three lines. And that's it. Yeah.

[00:32:40] So, you know, so the one thing – Caroline's talking about social media is I feel like I have the business part pretty buttoned up. That is the – marketing and social media are my last frontier that I have not gotten to yet, which consistently, I should say, consistently. So that's – she's helping me a little bit. I feel like it's more than what she needs to add to her plate to deal with me. So it's like I'm kind of looking at what that might look like going forward.

[00:33:10] It's expensive. If you hire someone, it's expensive. Yeah. And so I'm not sure what that's going to look like. So we're trying right now. But, I mean, what she really brings for me with that is like a fresh lens as far as how I built my business on, you know, the foundation of relationships. Hers is really identifying how people identify with a brand online and those relationships transact, how those are transacting. I don't get that still.

[00:33:38] I still don't understand how that all works. It's so interesting. I'm doing – I'm going to do a panel, hopefully with three agents in a few weeks, at three levels of social media. They're all – they've all been in the business for 20 years or so, like 10 to 20 years. And one was a social media influencer, is now a realtor. So her perspective is one. One of them is my friend Deb and Jackson who just very casually kind of does it in the car and in her listings. It's very her. It's very authentic. There's no production value.

[00:34:07] And then another colleague with Compass who's in Newport Beach who has really invested with the social media team in creating social media that feels like her. It's super funny. It's really unique. But you can tell that, like, she's really put a lot of effort into it. And it's not really, like, promotional. There's something really special about it. And I think I am – I'm the same as you, Tamara, which is, like, I know it's important. I have taken myself off Instagram for the past year just because the world is crazy.

[00:34:37] But I do go on and I post. And every time I post something that I feel like is helpful service to folks out there, whether it's, you know, what's a HELOC? How to know if you can buy a house? Should you stay or should you upgrade? Like, just some things that feel really relevant to me in the moment or that people have asked me a few times that week. I'll just get on really casually taking a walk, taking a hike, sitting in my kitchen, just say it. And every single time I do it, I get feedback or questions about someone's house.

[00:35:05] And so I think that genuine commentary on what you're seeing, what you're thinking, especially for someone like you, Tamara, who's like, hey, here's what I'm seeing when I walk into a house maybe from an interior design perspective, right? Here's what you're noticing, but here's what I'm noticing as a realtor who's been doing this for 20 years. Here's what you can say. I was just thinking the other day about what my clients start to notice as we're walking through a showing and what I'm noticing, which is layout, light, location.

[00:35:32] You know, like what are the things that will never change about this house? And if it doesn't have those three things, we can't really adjust that, right? So what are those little things that we know inherently and they're in your brain, as you said, that you can take out of your brain and share with folks, provide value. Yes. And provide value. Yeah. Yeah. And so you're giving something of value. That's really what, and that's I think what holds me back is I feel like I don't want to just put the song and dance stuff that you used to see. Here's the market update. Is that who I am? Yeah. Yeah. Same.

[00:36:01] So finding those points that are, I really have to think about like, what are the things that people ask me? And also for, especially for first time homebuyers, I mean, people don't, I mean, there's a lot of education that can be put out there, but, and Caroline, that's something for you too. But her, but the way she's marketing in her area is not even real. It doesn't even feel like real estate, but people know she's in real estate. That's what I love that she's doing.

[00:36:27] So, and all the things, you know, writing on top of the pictures now, it's like, that's what everybody's doing that. Is it a trend? I don't know. Like, do we need to be trendy? I don't know. But I just don't feel like it's. You're good, Tamara. I think you're good. I'm not worried about your business. I'm not worried about you needing to add social media to your lineup. But Caroline, you know, this is going to be a big part of your business going forward, I think, you know, and you have this amazing balance.

[00:36:55] It sounds like from being a part of your community, giving back to your community, making all those personal connections that are both, you know, friends of yours from New York, but also they meet you, they like you. And you're not saying, like, I'm a realtor. Here's my card. Like, it's a very genuine exchange. And you're utilizing some of the social media that's out there. So it sounds like a really healthy balance.

[00:37:15] I did Holly Meyer Lucas's 90-day workshop, Hype Boss workshop last January, and I really found it to be super valuable. But one thing I took away from it, which I try to think about every week while I'm, like, using social media, is she said to just think about three things. Just in a circle, post something personal, something local, and something professional.

[00:37:41] And just keep doing that on repeat, and your social media is going to look balanced, and it's not going to be just sold, just listed. It's going to be who you are, what you value, your community of where you are, and, hey, I'm in real estate. And I feel like I try to keep that in mind. That is such a good tip. Caroline, I'm going to start with you on this one as well because I'm so curious. I'm always interested. I think the highs in this job can be high. The lows can be very low.

[00:38:10] I think I always feel like clients really roll out a lot of vulnerability with us as agents. Their finances, maybe we get a glimpse into their partnerships. We get a glimpse into them on their best day and them on their worst day. There's quite a bit that they open up for us, right? And so for me as an agent, when things don't go well, I've become so attached to these people that I do take it hard. And I've gotten better about not taking it hard.

[00:38:34] But I'm curious, Caroline, on those days when this is really rough, when a deal falls through or if a client takes their frustration out on you or something, what is your kind of strategy at this point to bounce back? That's a good question. I'm really positive as a person and almost to a fault. I'm not comfortable with negative feelings for myself. I'm comfortable with other people's negative feelings but not my own.

[00:39:03] I think that that is a benefit in those ways because I know that I want my clients to be happy and successful and have the best possible outcome. But I have a really good ability because of my positivity to stay calm and be solution-oriented and like, okay, this happened, but here's what we're going to do next. And I think that so far that served me well. I love it. Tamara, what about you?

[00:39:30] You probably don't – I mean, I'm guessing you don't get hit by the waves like you were at the beginning of your career. But what's your strategy for like when that rough day inevitably comes? Not as much. But you know what? It still happens, especially with this new buyer-broker agreement. You know, people – Yeah. You know, being able to have people and not, you know, trust you in order to have that sign.

[00:39:56] I just recently had a referral with a young couple moving up from the city that they are – you know, they're kind of pausing. I think they're afraid to sign that agreement. And so – but I'm still noticing – I still have them on a collection, kind of a high-level collection. But I'm still noticing they're looking at things. So I know that they're looking. So I feel like what I'm doing in that case is maybe just reaching out with something of value.

[00:40:22] Like, hey, you know, I – or I saw a property that might fit their criteria. Just to kind of feed them something without pressure. But not every day. You know, it's just kind of like – so I'm not like discounting them totally. So they haven't ghosted me, which that happens. Caroline just had that happen. And it hurts when somebody ghosts you. But we're still in communication. So I feel like if you continue to kind of reach out – I mean, in the past I would have just said next and move on.

[00:40:49] But because we can see what's going on still, I feel like you can still kind of have some touch points to stay in touch with them. And at some point, they may circle back. Yeah. Yeah, I'm guessing at this point, especially, you know, having been with you guys for the past 45 minutes, you're both so positive. You're so warm. I think that those moments when your clients are a little bit heartbroken or they're stressed or they're, you know, feeling the weight of what moving a home feels like

[00:41:19] and maybe making some massive financial investments can feel like that you just lean into your warmth is what I'm hearing from you guys. Because that's what they need in that moment, right? Exactly. Normally that has – like I said, it's served well. And I've seen that for my mom like time and time again. I will say New York can sometimes make that interesting because sometimes people don't like that.

[00:41:45] I had a client this year who I'd kind of worked with off and on who at the end of the day when I wanted to sign a buyer broker agreement, he said he had been connected to another agent who was quote unquote savage and a bulldog. And he felt like he needed someone like that. And, you know, it hit me for a second where I was like, dang, I really invested a lot of time and brain power on this person and I was excited.

[00:42:12] But at the end of the day, there's different types of people, different types of agents. And if I wasn't the right fit for that person, there's someone I am a right fit for. And so I had to like take a step back and say, you know what? I don't want to be described as a bulldog. No. Yeah. I would actually prefer not to be. There's many of those out there. I actually use that exact phrasing sometimes when I'm having a first time conversation with clients and just say, hey, here's my approach to real estate. You know, I want my clients to feel calm and confident.

[00:42:40] I want them to have data and feel informed because I think people make good decisions when they're calm. And I will say like, I'm not a bulldog. I'm not going to bully someone. I'm not a cutthroat negotiator. We're going to use data and logic to negotiate. That's what I do. And I always say, if that is not a fit for you, please let me refer you to someone else. Yeah.

[00:43:00] Because one of my biggest compliments that my clients and more than one have said this to me, that from my southern side of me, they said, we love that you are soft and gentle, but you get your firm and get your message across. And I thought that's the best compliment anyone could give me. I loved that. Yeah. I read this great thing the other day that I loved it. It was like an Instagram post and it said, I'm laid back, but I can lean forward real fast.

[00:43:28] That's like, I think we're all a little bit like that. Oh, okay. I'm still here to, I'm still here to protect your money and I will do that. You know, I will do that with love. I'm here to do that for you. So, okay, guys, I'm going to ask you a question that I ask everybody to close out all of our interviews, which is what are the three things that you're kind of nerding out about right now that are helping you show up as your best self? Products, shows, travel. What is feeling really exciting and fun to you right now?

[00:43:54] So I recently adopted a dog, a puppy named Birdie. And so she gives me a lot of joy. I think one of my favorite things is walking her in the evenings, especially yesterday was the first warm day. So I think it's a tease, but still I leaned in. But walking her has made me so happy. And then I love Rent the Runway. I think especially living in New York with small closets, just the one I have in my apartment, Rent the Runway is great.

[00:44:23] And so much fun to get to try new styles. And then I also love Bravo. I think, you know, Summer House, Southern Charm helped me relax at night. I like Newly. Have you ever tried Newly? I have. I like Rent the Runway better, but maybe I'll try it again. It's such a great, you know, whether it's Rent the Runway or Newly, Every Eve is a big story here in Boulder. They have their own, like, shipment service, especially for realtors. It's so much fun to just have a new little capsule.

[00:44:50] The first episode of Season 2, which will have come out well before this comes out, is with this amazing Ellie stylist named Lauren Blakely. And we talk about Newly and Rent the Runway. We talk about auditing your closet. We talk about, like, how we build capsules as realtors. Anyway, and I felt like, oh, I need that. I know. I was like, what a great topic.

[00:45:09] I know, because I think I fell in love with her on a cohort call because the way that she talked about fashion at any age and style at any age really resonated with me in terms of it is our confidence. Like, all of us step out, you know, especially to face what we think might be a hard day or a challenging client. That outfit is going to help. There's no question. Right. But I feel like in my mid-40s, I'm like, where did it go? Where did my style go? Can someone find it and pull it back?

[00:45:39] And also a quick side note. People always ask me in New York, like, okay, wait, but, like, what do you wear to showings? Is it, like, what you see on TV? I'm like, no. Oh, okay. One shows up to showings in stilettos. Diamonds. Yeah. God, those outfits are insane. All right, Tamara. Well, my favorite show right now is Love Story with JFK Jr. and Carolyn Bissette. That one is, I love it. And you know what?

[00:46:07] I just look forward to, it's a series, so I look forward to the next one. So I'm all caught up. But, so Carolyn and I have talked about this. She's like, mom, you're so lucky you dated in the 90s because men are like that anymore. Where they don't court you. They don't pursue you. You didn't date in the 90s. You had kids in the 90s, but you did in the 80s. Oh, yeah. Well, I was, well, yeah, that's right. 80s. 80s then. Well, I dated a long time. But anyway, men have changed. The whole point is that the men have changed.

[00:46:35] And so they are, there's this whole trend right now with the JFK thing where they're styling. Men are starting to dress in New York. I haven't seen it in Chicago yet, but men are starting to dress like JFK. They look backwards. What's the hat called? Some kind of beret or beanie of some type. It's like the beret. I know, like a driving hat, like a. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A driving hat. And you'll see guys with the driving hat on backwards. And my friend and I were joking. We were like, did you get your, did you overnight that to your house?

[00:47:04] Like the show came out yesterday. How are you already wearing it? Men are starting to dress. It's a new style that men are starting to dress, which I think is refreshing. Of all the styles for them to lean into, JFK, good with that. There's a lot of other ways that could go. Yeah. But you know what? As a, as Carol, so Carolyn Bissette, what I loved about her is she was just a powerhouse woman that she, I mean, a lot of this is fiction in this show, but I mean, the fact that she was, didn't care about that fame and paparazzi, that was not her. She was just her own person.

[00:47:34] And I think that is important for women to see. You don't need a man for, this is, it's just a really good love story. I think it's an amazing love story. I haven't watched it. So that's one. So another one is one of my favorite things is we have a little store in Wanaka called Welly House, which is this local, a woman who used to be a flower grower during COVID. She opened up this beautiful store, but she has these vases from England that are, I actually

[00:48:02] give them to my clients for home anniversary, but she, every Friday, she has hand-tied bouquets that are beautiful, unique flowers that fit right into these vases. But I've got my husband trained to go get flowers for me every Friday. And they are, I mean, so they are stunning. So that's one of my favorite things is my Friday flowers. And, and also I'm a huge animal person. So my dog, I have a 14 year old, Pitt, who I adore, Nellie.

[00:48:31] And so our time with him, leaving him just tears me apart. So we walk with them and my husband will make my, he loves to deliver a Manhattan every night at five o'clock, whether I'm Friday flowers and a nightly Manhattan. I was just saying, I was thinking in a different time. The sentence before was, you don't need a man. And then two of her favorite things. And then it was like, and now I'm thinking maybe I do for a Friday flowers, five o'clock Manhattan delivery. Oh my God.

[00:49:00] That sounds amazing. He started that on his own though. Seriously. During COVID. I never had this before. COVID. He's a keeper. He's a keeper. He's a keeper. So now I'm telling every year, then I give the bouquet for the one year anniversary every year afterwards. And I write on the note, just a reminder for daily fresh Friday flowers for your wife to my clients for them to go get their wife's flowers. Oh my God. I mean, it, it, the flower, the flowers are always a win.

[00:49:29] I buy myself flowers are fairly often and it does change everything. You guys, I feel like we could talk for two more hours. I'm so grateful for your time. You guys are so adorable. I, if my daughter ends up liking me one 10th as much as your sweet relationship, I will be over the moon. So Caroline, it was such a pleasure to meet you. Tamara, I know we're going to spend a lot more time together all and talk soon, but thank you guys for doing this. I'm so grateful. Thanks so much for listening.

[00:49:59] And it's my goal to have this podcast be created for and by agents. So your input is absolutely encouraged. If you know another amazing agent, author, athlete, executive, or all around badass woman you think I should interview, or you have a topic or discussion you'd love to see us cover. Please email me at sarah.hubbard at compass.com.