Rae Scott - Good Photography Takes Time and Vision

[00:00:01] Welcome to Highest and Best, a podcast for women in real estate, where we explore the freedoms and complexities of this high-intensity career. From candid conversations with top agents to inspiring interviews with coaches, researchers, athletes, and female executives, we share valuable tools to help you stay calm, confident, and continue to show up as your highest and best self. Thanks so much for listening.

[00:00:27] Welcome to Highest and Best. I'm so excited today to have Rae Scott on the podcast. Rae is a real estate and interior design photographer here in the Boulder, Denver area, and someone who came highly recommended to me when I was just looking for someone who saw real estate photography differently.

[00:00:46] Could produce photos that were stylish and surprising because I think as a realtor, we just get stuck kind of in the same avenues of what our listings look like. So I'm thrilled to talk to Rae today. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, Rae. Rae Scott Thank you for having me. I'm excited as well. Rae Scott So let's just start with your background because I would love to know how you got into photography. And then this is quite a niche to be in real estate and interior design. So kind of tell me how that journey began.

[00:01:16] Rae Scott Yeah. So way back in 2012, my senior year of college, I was doing what everybody was doing and I started a blog and I bought a little camera for it. I had no real photography experience before then. I had been bragging about it in some of my college classes, my cool camera that I got. And the dean of my department, I was in the journalism department, came to me and asked me to join a photojournalism class as a capstone class. And she all but promised me an easy A.

[00:01:45] Rae Scott And they just didn't have enough students. She was worried that the class was going to get canceled. And she was like, I know you have your camera, so you should come join. So I joined that. And it was a really interesting class. It was all about traveling. Rae Scott And they went to Santa Fe, New York City, Washington, DC. And I was like, well, what's the worst that could happen? I get to go to all these cool places.

[00:02:12] Rae Scott Fell in love with it was pretty bad at first, I struggled because these were senior photographers, you know, they'd been doing this for a while. Rae Scott But it clicked for me in a really organic way. I just had never been really good at something before that I didn't have to work really hard for. And I loved it. I was a little bit nervous about like the concept of having a career. And I honestly didn't really think about it. I was going to school for PR.

[00:02:37] Rae Scott I hated PR. I never went into it. But it was like a safe degree. And I quickly became a graphic designer. And I liked that. I liked being creative like that. But it also just kind of never clicked for me. I struggled with certain elements of it. I was frustrated with it. I was never the best at it. I did a good job. I worked pretty hard and became a creative director.

[00:03:01] Rae Scott I was better at leading teams and better at managing the overall design than I was at doing the individual work. But on my 28th birthday, I quit my job as a creative director. I was kind of fed up. I worked in a startup and it was hard and I was tired. And my husband was like, you should pick up your camera and just take some photos, maybe get some side jobs. And that spiraled so quickly. I couldn't believe it. It went from week one. Let me take your family photo.

[00:03:31] Rae Scott to six months later, I never went back. So that was eight years ago now, I think, or nine almost. And I started shooting products, which was pretty cool in the world of commercial. I didn't really do weddings. I didn't really do personal work. I wanted to be a commercial photographer. But then COVID happened. And I also simultaneously had my first baby.

[00:03:56] Rae Scott and all of my clients disappeared overnight. I was shooting for beauty brands and nobody was selling lipstick anymore. Nobody had a budget for it. So I did a little pivot. A friend told me I should try real estate. I didn't take it super seriously. I just thought like maybe this will be something to fill in the gaps while I have a new baby. Just get me back on my feet. I had been applying for some creative director jobs again.

[00:04:24] And I fell in love with it day one. I just, I walked into my first shoot and was like, this is the most fun, coolest thing. There are no people. I love homes. I loved the challenge of it. And it took off so quickly for me.

[00:04:43] I just felt like I was in alignment with what I should be doing. And you would never hear me say those words prior to that time. But I had clients and they wanted my work and it felt easy. Not to say that there weren't hard days, but like the work itself has never been hard to me.

[00:05:02] And I loved it. And I loved it. And it just fits so many areas of my life. And then the, really the natural progression is from, if you're a really good photographer, going from real estate to interior design, the path, it's the dream. So about two years into shooting real estate, I got my first interior design shoot. You meet interior designers because you work with builders and, you know, people like your photos, they refer you to their friends. So that was about a year and a half ago, my first interior design shoot.

[00:05:32] And again, it just keeps rolling fast, faster than I can really comprehend. I love that. I'm laughing on so many levels because I think the reason I wanted to talk to you is, and the reason I got so excited to meet you when my team member recommended you guys was, I feel like as realtors, we have a few photographers we go to and it's not really, we just like need the photos done, right?

[00:05:59] We have someone we go to, we schedule them, we need the photos done. They all kind of ish look the same. We've got some folks who are good at like lighting and morning versus night, et cetera. But it's not something I see us thinking that heavily about creative side of it. Like, how can this be different? How can this stand out? And I'm so thrilled to see that you loved it from the beginning and like saw a really creative avenue there. And I would love to hear more from you in terms of what inspires you about it.

[00:06:27] How do you create photos that are different than everything we see online? This kind of the authentic Ray Scott Avenue for how to do this in a really unique way. Yeah, I actually talk about this pretty regularly. I have a little team and this is something that matters a lot to me. Whether it's real estate or interior design, my thing is that I love to make a photo that feels like someone just stepped out of the frame. So I don't love photographing people.

[00:06:57] I do it from time to time when it's important for the shoot, especially with interior designers. It's something that they want to have on the shoot. But I like shooting spaces, but I like the space to feel like somebody was in it. And I think a lot of the time people approach photographing spaces like it's four walls and a floor and some light. Yeah. And that's not wrong. That's important too.

[00:07:25] But for me, I try to look for where is the human in this shot, even though there is no human in the shot. That's so interesting about it. It's kind of a weird approach. Yeah. No, I love that though. Because I mean, look, that's kind of what we try to do on the real estate end as well. And whether it's staging or pieces here and there, a house that feels lived in to me is always better. It has to have good energy. It has to have a soul.

[00:07:51] And so much of what we see is kind of soulless, whether it's a new build or it's just the neutral staging. But it's like, I need like something in here, color, vibe, a story, people. And so I so resonate with that. Yeah. So soul is the word that I use too. And when I'm training my team and even when I'm walking into a space myself, one of the things that I like to do is in the real estate world, we move really fast. Even in the interior design world, people are paying for a full day shoot.

[00:08:21] They don't want to see you resting and hanging out on site. They want to see you going. But I like to counter that. And I like to walk into a space and take a few minutes just to be there, to slow down, to feel, to think about what that space is like. I don't want to come in the door and start shooting 10 seconds later. So I like to kind of mosey around the space a little bit, see what I can see and feel what it feels like to be there because the soul is of any space.

[00:08:51] It can be in a bland office space, but it does have a soul and it will be there if you can take a moment to settle in. I like to get into a space and find a corner to look around, shoot behind other objects with a soft focus, bringing a vibe to the shoot. That's a big thing for me. In real estate, we still have to show off the livability and the size and the scale. People want to know if their couch is going to fit. Does the primary have room for a full size bed? Those things are super important.

[00:09:19] But I think that's the base level of real estate photography. Being able to do that is the minimum requirement. I think taking it a step above is painting a picture of how it feels to be in that home. What are the views outside of the windows? What does it feel like to be at the kitchen sink? Is there a breeze catching a curtain? Is there a cozy nook with really good afternoon sun? That kind of thing.

[00:09:44] I want people who are on Zillow to stop their scroll and think that's where I want to live because I can feel it, not just see the size of the bed that fits. So to me, you said soul and that's exactly what I feel like we're searching for in any spaces. What is the soul there? What is the character? In every space, I've never encountered one. I've been in houses that I photographed that are being condemned and they still have a soul. They still have a story.

[00:10:12] So to me, until I find one, there's never a reason that there isn't a soul in a house and that's how I train my team. You mentioned something that kind of stood out to me, which is like the breeze through a curtain. And it made me think about something that I just never see in real estate photography really, which is movement. Like the idea of a curtain moving or I love that. Or whether it's just like a blur of a, even like a blur of a person moving through a room.

[00:10:41] Like I love the concept that there's movement and energy in the space because we don't really have that traditionally in our photography. Yeah. It can be hard. It can be hard to get it. But it's something that we talk about a lot. We have done video in the past. We talk a lot about ambient movement, just plant shadows playing across the floor. Or I just did a little bit of a retraining with a teammate, went out with her just to see how she was doing, see if we could level up some skills.

[00:11:10] And one of the things that we did, my team moves fast. They take on two shoots a day, sometimes more. I was like, let's pause in front of this big apartment building downtown and let's see if we can get a bicyclist going through. Let's put a really slow shutter speed and see what we can find. We got someone on a scooter. We got a couple walking a dog.

[00:11:28] I just shot a house in Park Hill neighborhood where I waited probably for 15 minutes of the shoot, which is a significant amount of time because I just wanted someone walking a dog in front of this house because the neighborhood is so walkable. And you can put that in words in the MLS in any sort of Zillow listing. You can say walkable neighborhood and people are like, sure.

[00:11:53] But to see a blurry shape moving in front of the house like a person with a dog, to me, they feel that it's walkable. They understand it. It's alive. There's something happening. I love that concept. It's so refreshing to hear this. It's making me more excited about photography instead of just something on my to-do list, right? And that was why I was so excited to talk to you.

[00:12:17] I have to ask you, you have a team of three women and how did you shift from just you to knowing you needed some additional folks? I know that's a really kind of sometimes challenging shift for entrepreneurs. Oh my gosh. It's the most challenging thing I've ever done and I have two kids, though. And that too. Yeah, you're managing a whole team. Yeah, I think scaling a business is an undertaking that's really honestly hard for me to tell you how difficult it is unless you've tried it.

[00:12:47] My shift happened purely because of demand. I had no dreams of scaling a business. I was very happy being a freelancer. I had a great business model for myself. A lot of, I just called all the shots. I did everything how I wanted it to be. I had the clients I wanted. I got thrown into kind of this perfect storm where multiple people who are my competitors either left or quit or for whatever reason weren't taking clients.

[00:13:16] And I was the de facto person for one year. And I just hired. And to be honest, it was fairly unintentional. It came back to bite me for sure. I learned a ton of lessons. I scaled from just me to a team of seven in one year. And I didn't really have the best systems and infrastructure. I had been a creative director. I had been a people manager. I thought I knew what I was doing at least somewhat.

[00:13:44] But it's different to do it for yourself with no bedrock underneath you. Building that framework of a business is really hard. I have some. It's like the people, management, and then the actual systems. And you guys, man. I mean, I talk all the time about like between you guys and stagers. I have no idea how you all keep it straight. Like I just, it is so fast. Everything we need in real estate is fairly urgent.

[00:14:12] I always feel relieved when I have time to schedule you guys because that feels like such a gift to be able to say, when are you free in the next month? You know, I never get to say that. And so I don't know how you guys keep it all straight. I really don't. Especially with seven people moving at all times. Yeah. I mean, back then, again, it was just responding to demand. So I wouldn't do it the way I did it again. We scaled back.

[00:14:41] There's now four of us, three photographers and a business manager. And we're really working over the next year, probably, maybe a little bit less, to implement some of the things that were pretty painful for us so that we can scale again more mindfully. We still have the demand. We still turn away work. That's amazing. And yeah, it's still there.

[00:15:04] And I think it's been a painful but such a good lesson for me to understand, you know, as a freelancer, you get a dollar waved in front of your face and you just jump. I did that on a larger scale with seven people and it was painful for everybody involved. And now I'm learning how to be a good leader. And sometimes that means saying no. It means moving more slowly.

[00:15:30] It means not giving up everything, which real estate is a really hard industry. I've shopped for, like I said, beauty brands. I've worked in consumer goods. I've worked in services before that were a lot easier than this. Real estate is relentless. And it will take from you what you will allow it to take from you. At least as a photographer, I can't speak as a realtor. I leaned back in my chair because obviously that resonated.

[00:15:59] Yeah, you have to have strong boundaries and you have to prioritize certain things over money. Like you have to because the money is always there. Real estate is always moving and you're going to want to jump to get to the dollar sign.

[00:16:19] But I think having a little bit of, I don't know, a quiet strength almost to be able to say this isn't the right thing for me has been my lesson of being a leader and having a team. And being in this industry, I've seen so many people burn out. It's like the thread of real estate photographers. They come, they go. I don't want that. And I don't want that for my team. And I think the hardest thing is just being able to say this is enough for me right now.

[00:16:48] This is what we can handle. This is what we can take. This is what provides a good life. This is what makes us happy and fulfilled and joyful. And sometimes that's not chasing the next dollar. And that's hard. I know. Yeah. Oh, gosh. I've really gotten to that point in my life as well. So you're definitely speaking my language. So now you have two other women that are supporting you.

[00:17:10] Since you have carved out such a unique, I think, perspective and then therefore a unique product that you're offering, how do you find people that are also see it that way? Or are you finding great people and then training them in the Ray Scott style? How do you make sure that the product is still in line with where it was when it was just you? Yeah. So I've done it a few different ways. I've learned some lessons.

[00:17:37] Right now, what I prioritize is good people. And everybody's a good person that I've ever hired. But I mean, good fit for my team. Good lifestyle fit. Good vibes fit. But I also require that you aren't a real estate photographer. That's something that's really important to me. And it's a hill that I'm dying on slowly. And maybe if we talk again in a year or two, I'll have a different tune.

[00:18:06] But I don't want to work. I learned my lesson about working with contractors. I don't want that in my business model. I would rather take the time to train someone, foot the bill for their life while I'm getting them up to speed. It takes three months before we can let someone have a shoot on my team. So that's a lot of time that they're not bringing in cash for the business. But for me, it's better to move slow, save up the money, you know, do things the way that I want it to be done.

[00:18:35] Because my clients trust us. That's a big theme in my business. We hear it from our clients a lot. I just don't trust other photographers. We are in a lot of circles the de facto people to go to for really high-end real estate. But also we shoot everything. And we're the people that you bring in when you have a difficult family or you have a, you know, household going through a divorce. Like we take care of our clients.

[00:19:02] And that's because I care enough to train my team. I don't want to work with contractors. I don't want to untrain bad habits. I want a team that has really strong ethics and works their bums off to become the best at what we do. That's a pretty rare person I've found. Yeah. And even more than a rare person, it's a person who's in a rare place in their life that they can do that with me.

[00:19:31] I think, you know, prioritizing quality over quantity has been a big deal for me. And I'm going to continue to do that. But yeah, I don't want someone who does a lot of real estate work already. I feel like oftentimes that's, I end up in these kind of battles where I'm trying to advocate for what I believe in my business. And when I hire somebody who has 10 years of experience, but they've never done real estate, they come in and they're ready to hear what I'm saying.

[00:19:58] And they, you know, buy into the product that I'm delivering and they believe in it in the way that I do. So yeah, I do things a little differently than others in that way. I think it speaks so highly to something I believe at my core too, which is those unique perspectives coming into an industry changes the product dramatically.

[00:20:21] As you said, it's if you're coming from commercial, if you're coming from art photography or lifestyle photography, or you're just looking at it differently. You're looking for that biker coming down the street. You're taking a great shot of like the graffiti next to the house because that's the soul. Like you're just looking at the whole picture differently, pardon the pun. And I agree with you. I think if this is all you've ever known, then it may show up like this is all you've ever done. Right.

[00:20:49] And those, and a certain point too, you guys have to be able to have a creative outlet. So if you've been shooting only the same real estate in the same way for 10 plus years, your soul may not be there anymore too. Right. Like you have to find the purpose that you found and the creativity that you found to continue to bring life to the work. And I think it can, it'll show if you see something special about the property or if you don't. And so I think that speaks so highly to who you're looking for and how you build your team.

[00:21:19] And I know, gosh, we've talked at length on this podcast about team building and how difficult that shift is. So kudos to you for most people have done a similar thing, which is go really big and then learn all the lessons and then get smaller. So you're certainly not alone in that. If you are looking at other people's photos, I don't mean critiquing them necessarily, but when you see good real estate photography, whether that's yours or someone else's,

[00:21:46] what are those little things that signal to you that photographer has a unique perspective? Is it light? Is it movement? Is it a vignette? Like, what are those little things that you're like, ooh, that person kind of does this the way I do this? Like I'm seeing something special about that. Yeah, there's a handful of them here in our market that I really respect and I see their work and I can tell you who it is pretty much right off the bat because I see how they, you know, create their composition. But yeah, to me, it's all about top-notch composition first and foremost.

[00:22:16] I think real estate photography notoriously has bad composition. They use ultra-wide angles. They just shoot from wherever they're standing at any given moment. They're not really thinking about it. And that's, I hate disparaging real estate photographers because those are my people. That's my industry. I think a lot of that comes from the industry itself, not being a poor photographer. You get paid not very much. At the end of the day, you've got five shoots. You've got a hustle.

[00:22:46] So you just get in, out, done, and you deliver what they need, and you're not really thinking about it. And it's a numbers game. It's like doing Instacart or DoorDash or anything like that. The money isn't there, so the product isn't there. For me, it's about composition, straight lines, excellent lighting, a clear focus. That's something you never see in real estate photography.

[00:23:10] I feel like they try to fit every single aspect of the room into one photo, and you see nothing. You get nothing from that. You just see a big space that people have learned, honestly, over time not to trust because they're like, I know that my living room isn't that big. And if my living room isn't that big, but it looks that big in the photo, what are these other living rooms and these other houses? It's so true. I had an agent recently at a listing of mine.

[00:23:36] The feedback was my clients felt a little tricked because the photos were so good and probably wide angle that they got in the space. And I was like, my first reaction was just like, thank you. And then I really thought about it, and I was like, well, you're right. I mean, you're right. I am trying to show as much of the space as I can and the way it flows, et cetera, but also noted.

[00:24:03] You know, like this, it was wider than it looked. It did like show a different property than when you walk in. And so it was something that I took to heart. Yeah, I think I see that a lot. So to me, when I look and I'm like, ooh, that's a good shoot. Someone did a good job. I see, I think about it. What is this a portrait of? Is a good question to ask. Everybody's familiar with what a portrait looks like. In a room, you should still have a subject. There should be a reason that the photo was taken the way that it was taken.

[00:24:33] It should be telling you something. If the subject is just big wide angle lens, you're not, there's no, that's not a portrait of anything. That's a big landscape photo that doesn't, you know, it's, it's not giving anyone anything other than, you know, people might think that that room's really big. But as you said, people are, I think, getting smarter about that. And you see it on your own home. You can point it out.

[00:24:58] So to me, I like being a good top-notch composition, just going back to the roots of good photography, whatever that means to any photographer, whatever practice they come from, compositions, you know, a unanimous thing. It doesn't apply to one industry or one part of the industry more than another. Good composition is the key to good photography. From a practical standpoint, I think about this all the time. This is my business dilemma.

[00:25:27] This is the problem that I solve for in my business every single day of my life. And it's time. Good photography takes time. There's no way around it. There's no shortcut that you can take that makes good photography. It is time. So for us, we get the feedback a lot. Your shoots take a lot longer than what I'm used to. And I'm like, yes. You're like, you're welcome. Yes. That is our work. Yeah. We're spending time in the space.

[00:25:57] We're being thoughtful about the shots. You're really, you're making such a great case for that. Yeah. And it's hard. People, we work around people whose babies need naps, people who work from home and we're asking them to leave their house for four or five hours. But at the end of the day, we partner with our agents to help educate the agents and they help educate the client. And everybody knows, everybody has had this experience in their life that good things take time. Our team takes time.

[00:26:27] We need to be in a space for a while. We don't rush through. And time is money. Yeah. That's budget. And one of the things that we're kind of known for is we're more expensive than your average team. That is also, to me, a sweet spot of existence. I work with a financial advisor. We have a really robust pricing matrix that we look at every single month. That's like business to me.

[00:26:52] I think having the dollar amount to support the time to give the talent of a good team so that they can all slow down and make an amazing composition. All those things have to be there from a practical standpoint. The composition, it's one thing for me to preach that real estate photographers need to just do better. Try harder. Challenge yourself to take a good photo.

[00:27:17] But at the end of the day, the industry for a long time has been, I want this cheap and I want it quick. And you're just not going to get it good. You just can't. There's no way. Someone out there will do it. I mean, it's every industry, right? It's like there's another agent that will do a cheap job of what I do for way less. Great. If that's what you're looking for, go over there. You know, and I think there's some. Yeah, I think I gosh, I totally hear you. I think it makes so much sense.

[00:27:45] And, you know, this kind of leads to one of my next questions, which is how realtors can work with you all better. And I'm thinking of a conversation I had with a photographer years ago at the very beginning of when I was doing real estate. And I just said, hey, I think we met for the first time. And I think I said something like, hey, I trust you do do whatever you want to do in the house. And he's like, is there anything specific I need to hit? And I was like, it's going to be obvious to you, but be creative.

[00:28:11] And we had a conversation then about how he, after a while, was shooting the same stuff, right? The wide angle, the big room, and he wasn't able to be creative. And that creativity got lost in the shuffle a little bit. And so part of my question is like, how can we be better? And you answered the first part, which is like being understanding about price and time and how that really equates to a better product.

[00:28:36] But how else can realtors really see this as a craft and an art and a way to really add value to a listing? And their work alone, I think it sounds like it's a really kind of educational opportunity for some realtors if they lean into it. Yeah. So there's overarching themes that I can touch on. And then there's some really tactical things that you can do. So overarching theme, trust.

[00:29:04] Hire a photographer that you feel like you can trust. I'm not telling you to trust any photographer you hire. That would be so unwise. But hire one. Pay the price for someone that you can trust so that you can step back and let them do what they're good at. I think micromanaging photographers is probably one of the worst things you can do in real estate. And we get it. I mean, we get it. People who have been burned. People who are nervous. This is your livelihood that we're talking about.

[00:29:34] And this is your main marketing material. We feel that pressure. We understand. Piggy sellers. Yeah. Piggy sellers. I'm knock on wood. I have yet to have a client who's looked through the photos and been critical. But I am well aware that happens a lot of just... All the time. Wait, what do you... You don't... Yeah. Anyway, then you have to fight with the like, okay, the expert did this. Let's let the expert do it. But I get to face that. That would be a tough conversation, I think. I mean, I can touch on that too.

[00:30:04] We deal with that all day long. Like every day. I think trusting your team. Like hire someone that you really do feel like you can trust. It's worth your money. It's worth your time. It's going to save you so much. And building a partnership. We have agents that we've worked with on such a deep level. We go to their holiday parties. They're our friends. They sent gifts for my children being born. Like we have built relationships with agents over a long period of time. And they know that we're going to take care of them.

[00:30:33] And in return, we get to create our best work. Because they step out of the way. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't communicate. In fact, communication is absolutely key to that kind of relationship. I want to know your shot list. I want to understand what you're working with at the house. I want to know what you want us to avoid and emphasize. I want to, you know, be... I want to walk in prepared. I haven't seen the house. I get one opportunity to be there and do a really good job.

[00:31:01] Oftentimes, the agents have seen it more times than we have. And they can help prepare us. So communication is super important. But we also don't need anyone like standing behind the camera, telling us what to do, micromanaging. That we get it more often than I would like. And honestly, it's one of the things that I see a great gallery turn into a gallery pretty quickly. Because somebody didn't trust us. Yeah.

[00:31:28] From a tactical standpoint, being out of the way in a space is important. But I also will counterbalance that. Being there for a walkthrough on a shoot. Showing us what matters. I train my team. If an agent points it out, take a little photo on your phone. Because I don't want you missing that shot. As you do your walkthrough, take a photo of everything that they point out. They might say it's not that big of a deal. But through experience, I've realized that if somebody points it out. It came from somewhere. Yeah.

[00:31:58] It comes back. Probably the seller. Yeah. Yep. It comes back. They'll want it. And if they don't, you have it anyway. Yes. Smaller things that are helpful. I mean, getting your property ready is so obvious. But I think doing things like matching the colors of your light bulbs, making sure sprinklers aren't coming on at twilight. Those little things, agents that work with us for a long time, we send out education about this.

[00:32:25] So when you book a shoot with us, you get a pre-shoot checklist where you can marker all these things in and print it out. It's so... I never thought about the sprinklers. Yes. Oh my gosh. It's such a nightmare because we can't turn them off. And then you get 10 minutes at twilight to shoot. Oh no. And nothing wet. It's spraying around. I think a big one is setting proper expectations with your homeowners. This is something that we work hand in hand with agents a lot. But people who are newer to us, it's definitely one of our things that comes up is we're like,

[00:32:54] hey, is your homeowner prepared to be out of the house? If they can't, we'll work around them. We're flexible. But we're talking about quality changes right now. We're being honest with you. Let you be honest with them. If they can't leave the house, it's fine. We can all pivot. We can all deal with it. We're good at that. Realtors are good at that. Photographers have to do this all the time. But we're like ticking away at the quality of your gallery at that point. There's no sugarcoating it for me.

[00:33:22] Like getting those environments dialed in. There's a counterbalance to asking for something outside of the preference. Our best work is done under great conditions. That is not something you get the privilege of every time. But understanding that and preparing for it. Preparing your expectations, your homeowner's expectations, and doing your best with getting the property ready. We try to give you the materials that you need to do it.

[00:33:52] We spend a lot of time. We try to communicate it. And we know that it's not going to happen every time. And our partners, the people that we work with a lot, we have this conversation. They're like, oh, yeah. I wish this room looked a little different. But we had to move the pack and play. And it was, oh, they get it because we communicate with them. And we try to be really collaborative on a shoot. When things are going to be hard, sometimes it is better for the agent to stay and help corral the family to a different floor.

[00:34:21] The pack and play for five minutes. The pack and play with us. I've definitely been in the corner behind a lot of shots, like holding plants and clothes and like, you know. Yeah. And I mean, our best case scenario, all of this stuff is dialed in. It's staged. You've spent, you know, thousands of dollars for the best stagers and the window cleaners and everything's dialed in. And that would be all of our best case scenario. It's sometimes it's realistic. A lot of the time it's not.

[00:34:48] And we try to partner with people to manage that. Yeah. The best galleries come from the best rep. Yeah. But we'll pivot. We'll pivot if we have to. That's, I think that's something that's also really important for real estate agents to understand too. We're not rigid. At least our team. I can't speak for other photographers. We're not rigid. We're not going to walk out of the shoot because it's not perfect. It's not. It's so rare that it is that good.

[00:35:18] Maybe on a new build. But even then it's construction everywhere. It's so rare. But it's the closer you get us to that point, the better our gallery is going to be is the point. Yeah. Yeah. I'm interested in obviously doing a shoot that's real estate focused versus interior design focused, completely different style. And yet I think having, I'm assuming there's a lot of really powerful overlap in that you're looking at textures.

[00:35:44] You're looking at places in the house where like the colors are coming together or the design is shining in the same way you would maybe look at, wait a minute, we need to get that corner because it's this stone and these two pink colors and like, you know, spotlighting the designer at their best as well. But talk to me just for a minute about how the interior design piece is a little bit different because I think those elements could be really helpful for realtors as well. Yeah.

[00:36:12] I mean, interior design shoots are organically really slow. That's probably the biggest difference. Yes. And they're slow because interior designers are on site. Sometimes we have a stylist. Sometimes we have an architect or a builder who's been involved. All of these people are needing different things. And so we go really slow. We can take an hour on a photo. That's completely normal. We style, we restyle, we use a tether so you can see the photo live. Our clients are holding an iPad in their hands and looking at it.

[00:36:43] Obviously, none of that makes sense in the world of real estate. The money isn't there. The time isn't there. And honestly, it's not usually a need. But we try to do a paired back version of that. That's kind of our business model is blending the principles of interior design and architecture photography with real estate. So again, slowing down, using a critical eye when we're walking through, looking for movement, trying to find the soul.

[00:37:09] All of those things are what you do in interior design photography by nature. And that's why it feels so soulful. I think one of the big things from a technical standpoint is that real estate photographers, we're delivering files. We go home. We get those files off to an overnight editing team. Almost all of us do it. We get those files back in the morning. We have three shoots in the day. We've got a 30-minute window to get these cranked out.

[00:37:39] Interior design, I have a four-week lead time on a big gallery, maybe six to eight weeks. My business, we deliver files two days. And we have a pretty hefty rush fee if you're going to rush it because we don't want to sacrifice that quality. I don't want people to walk away and say, I paid $175 and rushed it and my gallery looks like crap. That's just not a good business model for me.

[00:38:01] So we try to, I try to be pretty firm and like build the business such that we can use those interior design principles of slowing down, using your eye, having time in the space, working collaboratively. All of those things are what you would see on an interior design shoot. And we, you wouldn't really see those on a real estate shoot, but we try to blend them in the most realistic way that we can. Yeah.

[00:38:28] I have to ask you, across real estate and interior design, what are some of your favorite projects? Hmm. I think for real estate, I mean, I get the pleasure of photographing the biggest and most expensive homes in our whole area. Yeah. Which is so cool because I get to see how the other half lives.

[00:38:53] And also it's inspiring, you know, like I, I walk in and I'm like, this is what people do in their homes and they're beautiful and they're crafted well and the money's all there and the designers were all there. And it, and I just get to see these fabulous properties. But honestly, the truth is that I love shooting family homes that no other photographer would put in the effort to do really, really well.

[00:39:16] I think there's a unique challenge in shooting a $300,000 condo on a not bougie side of town. That probably sounds a little bit easy, but. I feel the same way. It's like, I think. I think so often those houses have 10 times more sold than some of these massive new builds that we see. And I also think you probably feel this way as well because you chat with the realtors and, and probably also the clients too.

[00:39:44] It's like, those stories are amazing. My first time homebuyer stories are amazing. It is the thread that like keeps me in this work. The first generation homebuyer stories, like that's what keeps me in this work. And I also am obsessed with how people live in a space. And I don't care if that's your hundred square foot studio. I like the ingenuity of a hundred square foot studio.

[00:40:10] And the creativity is, I think, way better than these massive houses. So it's like, I'm looking at these little pockets of how people are using this space. And I just am fascinated by it. It sounds like you are too. Yeah. And I mean, those homes are still someone's biggest and most meaningful investment of their entire lives. Those homes are someone's real home where every important moment of their life is going to take place. That's where they're going to bring their babies home. That's where they're going to have their pets. And it's where their heartbreaks will happen.

[00:40:40] And their job promotions are going to happen. And it's their safest space, hopefully. And for me, it matters that those properties are shot well and sold well and attract people who will love them fully. It doesn't matter that the price point is lower. And oftentimes, these high price point homes are people's second, third, fourth houses. And yes, they do cool stuff with them.

[00:41:07] And I love getting to see the fun design choices and cool things that they'll do with the architecture. But I also just feel so fulfilled from a real estate perspective. Getting to... Getting to... I love when I walk onto a shoot and someone's... We got the best photographer. And it's just a little condo in Aurora. Like, you know, not a fancy side of town. And seeing those people be like,

[00:41:35] My realtor went out of their way to take care of us. They're spending the money on this. Like, they care so much about my home sale. And this is... They got, like, a photographer who cares on that level, too. Like, that's what makes my heart sing and makes this job feel like the best job in the world to me. I just love... I can't get enough of that. Yeah. That is the soul. And then you're like, you're in. You know, like, all the passion is there.

[00:42:04] All the inspiration is there to find the little corners of that, you know, tiny little condo. I love that so much. It's such a big part of why I'm in this work as well. Two more questions for you. I know we're close to time here. But where do you get all of your inspiration? Are you traveling with your family? Are you shooting when you're traveling? Like, where do you continue to keep kind of those creative juices going in your off work time? Yeah, I am a huge traveler. I talk about this a lot in personal life and with colleagues.

[00:42:33] I like to take a two-week trip every year somewhere international. By myself, without my kids and without my partner. Yeah, you're clapping. Tell me more, right? What? How could you ever? How do I do that? That sounds amazing. You just do. Yeah. And like that... Maybe that sounds so privileged. And it is. Like, it 100% is. But like, it's taken a long time for me to get to that place to negotiate that with my partner.

[00:43:02] I mean, I'm going on a trip to Portugal this summer. This is what refills my cup. I need it. I'm an introvert. I need to be alone. Introvert does not get fulfilled by like constant barrage of childhood needs and employee needs. Sensory overload, for sure. I'm right in that right now. Oh my goodness. Yes. It's brutal. Mama. Mama. Mama. Beeping. Sounds. Beeping. Mama. Touching. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. It's brutal.

[00:43:32] And honestly, even for me, if I didn't have kids just as a married person, I need days where I choose the speed, which I'm going to go where I choose the location of where I'm going to go, where I just feel like the world is my oyster and I get to call every shot. It matters so much to me and it refills my spirit in a way that nothing else can. And I will not do this at home. I've learned this. I cannot make it happen.

[00:44:00] I cannot take time off at home and not clean my house and not respond to emails. So, you know, I just had this conversation with my husband last night. How do I help you prepare for my two week trip? I'm calling in my grandma, you know, or my mom, the grandma for the kids to take the kids for two nights so that my husband gets a break. He has some extra vacation time he hasn't used. He's going to take a few days off of vacation time just so that he can cope with the solo parenting for two weeks.

[00:44:30] We have a house manager, which is something I preach about all day and night long. I am not a wealthy person, but I put money toward help that I need for my mental health. She comes twice a week. So I'm going to ask if maybe she can come for an extra half day. But basically building these systems in my life so that I can go do something that I need to do so that I can feel inspired. I love walking around with my fun camera. I have it right here with me and I'll show you it.

[00:45:00] This is my baby. This does not come to work with me. She is separate. She's from work. Special baby. Yeah, I love it. I love it. No, she is fun for me to use. And I love going to take photos of architecture that will never see the light of day. I don't post them to social media. I don't nobody's ever going to know about them. But to me, it fills my cup. Yeah. So I am a big proponent of traveling. You're inspiring me. I'm a single mom.

[00:45:29] And so the structure and logistics of the everyday, being a realtor, the urgency around that, as well as taking trips, it's a lot. But it is so worth it. I agree with you because I'm not going to do that stuff in my everyday life. I'm just not. And even if I were to take a day and not work just here in my neighborhood, it doesn't do what you're saying. No. And so I am so there with you. I get that.

[00:45:57] And I have a lot of girlfriends, especially now that I think a lot of us are in our mid 40s, doing trips like that. Really creative trips to tap into that side of themselves. It's not just yoga. It's, oh, we're going to do something really specific in some really cool place in the world. And I'm guessing you also thoroughly enjoy and invest in traveling with your littles as well, I would assume. Yeah, we're getting there. We're talking about we're in the midst of potty training our youngest right now. Yeah.

[00:46:26] And we've always said that we would start traveling again once he is potty trained. And so we're looking at a trip next year. But I did just take my daughter last year. There was like a week gap between, you know, preschool ending and summer camp starting. And I was like, if I'm parenting for a week gap, we're going to Arizona to a resort where I can sit and like have a cocktail while she splashes in it, you know. And again, I'm talking about very privileged things. Water beach sun. Yeah.

[00:46:56] Toddlers and beach. It's my favorite thing in the world. Good for you. I do the same thing. Yeah. It helps the sanity so much. I mean, I put a lot of, I have to save a lot of money. I have to put a lot of effort and intention into this. It doesn't just like, I'm a photographer. I'm, you know, I make a normal wage. So this is, I think when I say these words out loud, I'm like, probably a lot of people will cringe and be like, I don't, I can't afford this. I can't do this. This is so expensive.

[00:47:25] But to me, I work all year long, no vacations, no time off, take on the extra jobs, set the budget with my financial advisor. It is not unintentional. It is not a whim to just travel with your kids or to travel with your family or to travel alone. It takes a lot to get there. It takes so much, but to me, it's worth it. Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. I'm right there with you. I know we're close to time, Ray.

[00:47:52] I want to ask you what I ask everyone at the end of the podcast. And you've hit on a few big ones, but what are the three things that are right now in your life that are helping you show up as your highest and best self? Things you're nerding out about or books or products you bought or what are the, and maybe it's some of the things you just mentioned, but what are the three that are helping you show up? Okay. I have three that I just thought of because I was going to say travel. I'm a big reader.

[00:48:20] I listen to audio books because I'm on site at, you know, houses by myself and I can listen to books while I'm driving in between shoots. I can listen to books while I'm editing. So I'm a big reader. I look forward to that part of my job because I feel like it's, I'm like cheating. I'm getting to have fun. I do the same. Driving between listings. I'm an, I'm a major reader too. Audio books are like, it does, it feels like just this calming. Yeah. It's a treat. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:48:49] I recently used AI to build out my dream skincare routine for my skin. And this was like my nighttime project. I was like, okay, I'm 36. I am. I need this. This is where I live. This is what my skin is like. Help me find the products. Help me find the routine. Now act as my skincare consultant and dermatologist and revise the whole thing. So I was like testing my AI skills and I love my skincare routine right now.

[00:49:16] It is long and it is intense, but it is so good. Those are settlements, especially as moms working, just working with people. It's like just having a little moment. I did the exact same thing this week on Chat TV. Oh, yeah. I uploaded photos and I was like, here's what I'm using. Tell me what's right. And most of my stuff's like Whole Foods Trader Joe's. And to be honest. Oh, yeah. It was like, you're good. I mean, it made some shifts. Yeah. It was like, yep, these products are the same as the other ones. You're good. So it's like, oh, yeah, the Trader Joe's.

[00:49:46] You can't get your lines from Chat TVT. Thank you. And then I'm also a big walker. I used to force myself to go to the gym. I had to take a break from that a little bit when I had babies. My gym time is early in the morning and kid time is early in the morning. But I've been kind of reclaiming that time as my kids get into kindergarten and preschool. And I have found that, yes, I like going to the gym. I like lifting weights. But I love walking and I don't listen to anything. And I don't, I'm not on my phone.

[00:50:15] And my brain like has this like bubbly soft time to decompress from everything that's happening. It's like my built-in quiet time. So I go three times a week. I try different parks around town. It's like 45 minutes. And I love walking. And I never thought I'd be a walker. Everything I read, everything, like well met, everything is like walk every day, walk every day, walk every day. Like it's so good for, good for you. You are like really saying the things out loud that I need to hear right now. So I so appreciate it.

[00:50:43] You're reminding me what I need to reinvest in. Rae, I have some questions for you offline. But just officially, I want to say thank you so much for doing this. You have totally like reinvigorated my excitement for photography and my listings. And I just, I love your perspective. I think it's really going to be refreshing for everyone listening to hear. So thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. This was great. Thanks so much for listening.

[00:51:10] And it's my goal to have this podcast be created for and by agents. So your input is absolutely encouraged. If you know another amazing agent, author, athlete, executive, or all around badass woman you think I should interview, or you have a topic or discussion you'd love to see us cover, please email me at sarah.hubbard at compass.com. Thank you.