Deb Keenan - Lead with Heart - #1 Jackson Hole Agent

[00:00:01] Welcome to Highest and Best, a podcast for women in real estate, where we explore the freedoms and complexities of this high-intensity career. From candid conversations with top agents to inspiring interviews with coaches, researchers, athletes, and female executives, we share valuable tools to help you stay calm, confident, and continue to show up as your highest and best self. Thanks so much for listening. Welcome to Highest and Best. I'm your host, Sarah Hubbard.

[00:00:31] I don't even really know how to accurately introduce this young woman on the podcast today. Deb Keenan has been a friend of mine for goodness, 20 plus years. She is the top solo Compass agent in Jackson Hole, one of the most fast-growing, prominent luxury markets in the United States.

[00:00:57] Beyond that, I find her to be one of the warmest, funniest, most honest humans I have ever met in my life and one of my go-tos for life advice as well as real estate advice. So we are going to dive into all the things today. Welcome, Deb, to the podcast. Thank you. And you are my official hype girl. You know, I'm floating on a cloud. I try. I try. I try to really set you guys up for success.

[00:01:24] Deb, you were on the very first episode of the first season of the podcast with the lovely Allie Kirby, and we talked about the ahas we've had in real estate, the WTFs that we've had in real estate. I still, to this day, I'm thinking about you running around your listing with a squirrel and a fireplace coker. And it was so much fun.

[00:01:46] And since then, I've been trying to come up with other topics that I feel like would be really relevant and have you on panels because I just think your insight into real estate is so personal. And those conversations are the ones that I think have resonated so much with those listening to the podcast. And I finally just was like, why am I trying to fit this round peg in a square hole in a panel? It just needs to be you. So you and I are just going to chat today about all the things. Two girls rolling up our sleeves. We're rolling up our sleeves.

[00:02:16] We will dive into the topics. And it is such an honor to be with you. You make it fun. And so I'm pumped. Anytime I get with you is time well spent. Okay, let's start. We did this a little bit in the very first episode, but you have been in real estate for 25 years? Oh, gosh. I need to figure it out. I believe it's 22. I think you gave me a few extra.

[00:02:40] I believe it's my 22nd year as I call it, the matchmaking that we do in this business, helping folks shed the shelters that do not serve them anymore and help hunt for homes that serve better for our peeps. I believe it's your 22. You're 22. You found this very early, this career, very early, fell in love with it very early, found success really early, and have continued through that whole time to be a solo agent even though you're in the Compass office in Jackson. Is that right?

[00:03:10] True story. Yes. Okay. Let me ask you out of the gate. You know, I lived in Jackson, oh goodness, 12 years ago for a decade. While I was there, the town changed so much. It has changed in just indescribable ways since then with the influx of money and investment. And it is a totally different town now, and that has changed real estate just so much.

[00:03:36] What has it been like in those 22 years to be in a market that has changed so incrementally? Like, what have you, are more people realtors? Is it more competitive? Like, what have you experienced with a change that dramatic? That is a great question. And I will actually flip it on its head and start with the things that I delight that are the same. So, in those years, and of course, post-COVID, you know, that's the same song, second verse for a lot of markets.

[00:04:06] We've definitely seen an influx of the big dollars. But I would say in a market like ours, people are really drawn to Jackson as a place. And socioeconomic ability feels very junior. So, there's still this, like, through line, like a thread of that connects everyone regardless of their wallet when they are coming to Jackson, which is the sense of place you're really drawing them in.

[00:04:31] So, that is, like, I really focus on that because any market, especially the Western resort markets that have some of that big money coming in, it's very easy to cast your eyes and lock in on some of the challenges that come with it. But I also, you know, shift my gaze over to what remains true, which is, oh, my gosh, regardless if there are, you know, not me to pick on our California friends.

[00:04:56] But, you know, if eight more families, you know, from California move in here, well, they are attracted to the same thing that attracted me when I was 22 years old. Yeah. Right. So, I really appreciate that, you know, about Jackson. And I would say a lot of us are, though, serving clients with a lot more robust financial capability and discretionary income than we have.

[00:05:20] So, it's a great opportunity for agents to be, for us to be confident in who we are and how we add value because you do not need to, you know, roll with that many decimals in your bank account to add to their process. So, I think it's a great invitation to be sturdy in who you are, you know, and not intimidated. You know, like, oh, my gosh, really? I Googled this new client that was referred to me. He's a billionaire. Right.

[00:05:48] And you are positioned to add value. You know the market. Real estate is very place-based. And proceed. Proceed with your full acumen of expertise and serve. Right. So, I do think it's a time for us to really, like, continue to, no matter how much, you know, medium price and price per square foot go, you know, kind of inch up, to stay sturdy.

[00:06:13] You know, and be like, well, and you're still, we're all very capable still serving those clients with, you know, confidence. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you make such a great point in that Jackson, like some other, I think, maybe mountain resort markets or really specific resort markets,

[00:06:31] that knowledge of the place is essential to them buying where they want to buy, knowing it's the right investment, understanding the valley and, you know, all of the intricacies that come with Jackson and what makes it so special. Like, you are the local expert there, which doesn't really apply to all markets, you know? Sure. Good point. Let me ask you one more thing about that change.

[00:06:56] I have talked to quite a few agents who, as they have moved up in their careers and in their price points, are dealing with different people than the buyer or seller themselves. The lawyers, the handlers, the accountants, the teams of so-and-so. Have you had that at all? Or since this is kind of a second home market, are you still dealing with the buyers even if they have a B at the front of their title? How's that changed? Great point. Great point.

[00:07:23] Anecdotally, I can tell you right now, I have two first-time buyers who, of course, I speak directly with, right, that are in the seventh. And sometimes we're like, does that still exist? It does. The under, you know, $775,000, $775,000 on the market. That's so fun. Yes. One closes next week. One closes a few weeks after. So I speak directly to those clients. And then I do have a new client that I'm serving on the list side who does have kind of a family office.

[00:07:52] And I speak to the handler. Right. And in a lot of ways, it is such a gift. Right. At the start, I remember feeling a little, like, intimidated. And now I see it as such a, it's a blesser because we can speak very directly. Right. And I can position myself to say, hey, when you meet with the client, you know, because they have 11 holdings across the United States, you know, tell me how to best communicate. How do you run your meetings with the client?

[00:08:21] I will deliver my email summary as such. Right. So you really get to talk kind of like, it's not like talking to a client. Yeah. It's like, you're the translator. So I'm like, help me give you the information so you can translate it. So I thought that buffer might be a challenge, but it actually has been a gift. And I have not minded it at all. Yeah. You know, which is a, I'm happy I can say.

[00:08:44] That's actually so interesting because as someone who loves the personal side of real estate, the idea of like just talking to a lawyer, it like takes the heart out of it a little bit for me. You know, but I think you bring up such a great point, which is you're, they're still on the other side. You just have maybe somebody in the middle and you're still able to convey things to them personally. You just might have to have a, you know, there just might be an intermediary. Yes. An intermediary. That's a great, that is a great, that's a great way of saying it.

[00:09:13] And then your way to love those clients well is to serve their handler the information and package it up in a way that matters. See, it's just a different way of loving them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I have a feeling since you've been doing this for 22 years and I know you to be a very authentic human that you found your stride as a, as Deb Keenan, the realtor, pretty quickly.

[00:09:41] Instead of feeling like, oh, I'm being asked to be this or I'm being asked to be this. And you've been a solar agent. So you haven't had that kind of that team influence. But talk to me about how you kind of developed your unique style and what, when you like got in the pocket of like, okay, this is how I do real estate. This is how I work with clients. Like, what does that look like?

[00:10:05] Like, what's the Deb Allen, Deb Keenan experience like a little, like, what does it look like that may be different from, you know, there's a realtor for everybody, right? But like, what's the lane that you're in that feels really authentic to you? Oh, thank you for that. And that's such a nice, nice, um, way of lobbing that top again. Well, and I don't think, you know, you're developing an authentic style because it is quote authentic to you. Yeah.

[00:10:33] So I remember when I started, yeah, in my, in my mid to late twenties, you know, you're very, you're very much sponging, right? And kind of like, oh, I love the way Sarah Hubbard did that. I was at Open Houses and the way that Tom and Ashley ran things, I really liked that. So you're more like sponging, you know, and then you apply it in a way that feels authentic to you, right? Right.

[00:10:57] So case in point, two days ago, I was hosting an open house and it feels very authentic to me. I think it's my Southern roots, right? Um, kind of like being hospitable, right? And it's almost like you're throwing a party and being from Georgia, you know, I had those chicken salad croissants. I had sweet tea and lemon bars and plenty of agents would be like, Deb, could you not be so extra? You know, and I would be like, oh, I just can't not. Cause it's authentic to me, right?

[00:11:23] Like, I feel like that's a way that I show up in the world and I do want to have the cute cocktail napkins. We're not going to jerk one off the roll and use a paper towel. We just can't, we can't do it. Right. So I feel that authenticity, you don't even know you're doing that, you know? And I also remember hearing the coaching of, you know, people like working with people they like. So the more that you are yourself, you attract clients that are going to enjoy you.

[00:11:51] So no one is more qualified to be Sarah Hubbard than Sarah. No one's more qualified to be Deb Kinnon than Deb. So you kind of move out of, you know, kind of like observing and taking best practices from others into making it your own style. And then you go from being a duplicator to a creator of your own, your own, right? Right.

[00:12:14] And then I think just trusting like, oh my gosh, if these people, because I struggled with this, maybe it's called imposter syndrome. Right. I'd be like, oh my gosh, why, why are, you know, Terry and his wife working with me? You know, I'm 31 years old and there are, I can tell you 15 agents right now that have tripled the amount of experience. Right. Than I do. And have done four X on deals. Right.

[00:12:42] And then to remember, well, they want to work with you. They've chosen you. So show up sturdy as yourself because, again, no one's more qualified and serve them, you know, the best you can. And then when you're newer, I remember really appreciating having a company behind me, right, to say, hey, as you know, I've got three years of experience. But gosh, I jump on email or, you know, can phone a friend at the office and I'll have, you know, 300 years of experience.

[00:13:12] So let me answer that question about that that you asked about what to do about the setbacks on this lot. Let me phone in 300 years. So I remember really leaning on that as I continued to learn the industry. Yeah. So I hope I answered your question. I may have veered into a different lane. No, you definitely did. I'm curious as well. We've been talking a lot in the coaching cohorts that I'm in about also from our side, knowing when that client isn't a fit. Have you ever. No.

[00:13:42] Oh, yes. Broken up with a client? I have. That is so hard. And it feels like a divorce. Maybe I'm being dramatic. That's possible that I'm being dramatic. But that is very difficult. But I feel, especially for women in the business who tend to be in touch with the intuition inside pretty acutely, you sense sometimes early on. This is just not a fit.

[00:14:12] And I have heard great advice, which is, you know, summon your seven seconds of bravery to save, you know, seven weeks or seven months of heartache. So it's very uncomfortable. I love that. Right? And I can think of times where I did it. And I can think of times when I didn't. And I always wish that I had gotten brave for seven minutes to say, gosh, may I tell you something that's kind of hard? And that client will say, sure.

[00:14:40] And you'll say, I've been using my two ears to really listen. And I can't unknow what I know. When I forecast two weeks, two months into this process, there is a better fit for you. So, and I'm here for client fit over commission. With your blessing, I would love to introduce you to, right? Say the name. And then grab yourself a referral fee. Save the headache.

[00:15:10] Refer to an agent that you know can connect better. And take your mailbox money at the end. When they send you your check. And take a deep breath and let that weight off. Yep. Yes. Because there is nothing that will weigh you down more than for week after week being like, I knew it. I knew this, you know, two months ago when I took this lesson. Why? Oh, we are here because I did not speak the truth. Yeah.

[00:15:40] We've all been there. I am curious. One of the topics that has come up a lot in our casual chats has been being a mom in real estate. And you have mentioned a few times that you feel like women specifically are maybe not just not even moms. Women specifically are so well suited to this job. Oh, yes. And I couldn't agree more. I mean, obviously, as I said, there's a realtor for everybody.

[00:16:07] If you want a male, a female, there's you've got introverts, extroverts, total bulldogs, like easygoing, quiet ones. Like there really is a flavor for you. But women specifically, why do you think we feel good in this role or pulled to this role and really successful? Yes. And I always challenge women to really lean into this truth that I do believe we are well suited and to not be intimidated by other top producers.

[00:16:36] There are men, right, and shrink. If anything, we should blossom all the more in this industry. Women by nature are nurturing. And home is all about a sense of safety, recharge, connection. We tend to be the nurturers. Women acutely, I believe, know what it means to be home. Now I will just wax the philosophical briefly. Not a person on this planet has not come through a womb of a woman.

[00:17:05] So women are first homes. Women are first homes for all of humanity. That is just hashtag wax. So there's something very deeply embedded in us for home. We serve as home. We're drawn to home. So without even knowing it, you know, without even having to put language around it, women can lean into a sense of home and what that looks like and what's going to be a fit for someone.

[00:17:36] Language is not even required. It's just a knowingness that we have. And again, this is not like a girls rule, boys drool. Make sure you always hire a female realtor. That's not my heart posture. It would be just to encourage women that you have a giftedness that is beyond language. It doesn't need to be like you don't need to compete with men on dollar volume and knowing the market report inside and out and slicing and dicing statistics.

[00:18:05] If that's not your strength, I would say that's not paramount anyway. That can be learned. We can always sharpen. But the knowingness of just being a woman makes us suited for this job. I had the pleasure of interviewing this amazing agent from Raleigh, and that podcast just went live last Friday in real time.

[00:18:27] And she has created a framework that is really beautiful in helping clients work through those big emotional moments in a transaction in a really kind of like predictive and science-based way. And I've taken so much away from her trainings. But one of the things that she said to me privately when we first started talking was, you know what, I think a lot of times we think about the vulnerability of this position, right? Someone's laying all their finances on the line for us and this lender they just met.

[00:18:55] They're very much opening their partnership dynamics to us. They're sharing their hopes and dreams. They're opening themselves up to showing us the best version of themselves and the worst version of themselves. It is a very vulnerable position. And the part that I really loved about what she said that ties into what you just said is that home is predictability. It's safety. It's dependability. It's the ground beneath our feet in so many ways, right?

[00:19:24] And so when you're buying and selling a home, not only are you laying yourself kind of bare financially and otherwise, but we've also taken the ground out from under you because you're about to move from this place that's super predictable. This system and the process itself is unpredictable. And so we've taken away everything that's safe and calm.

[00:19:48] And if we're waxing philosophical for a second, I also think part of our role is being that stable ground for a little bit as we move you from one stable place to the next. Like we can serve as that steady ship, which is a very big job. But I loved that idea of, oh, my gosh, no wonder people lose their minds here and there. I would, too, if I didn't have a ground beneath my feet or a safe place to go back to. Or every time I went home, I was like, oh, my God, am I sure I want to leave this place?

[00:20:17] This feels safe to me. There's so much to it. So I would say I love that because our clients nervous systems almost need to like co-regulate with us and we can tell them how normal they are and give language to it when they really can't. What is wrong? Why? Why do I get on edge when Deb calls for another to show my place again? This is what I want, right? We want to move. Why do I feel this way? And to be able to tell them that tension is so normal. That tension is so normal and they likely won't say that to us.

[00:20:47] So I think a good agent gives voice to that in a vulnerable way and just says, hey, you know what? Because I've been doing this X many years and even as I'm serving you, I've served, I'll bake it up, 314 sellers. And I want you to know how normal you are. If you ever want to bump me, bump my call and you don't know why, I just want to tell you it's so normal, right? To want to sell your house, but you don't want to clean it again.

[00:21:14] To want to move on, but this unsteady spot feels so icky. You are just so normal, right? And so to hear that from the carrier of the torch of the process who does it for a living, who sees tons of buyers and sellers, right? To be like, oh my gosh, right? I was telling a buyer of mine last night, how many more pieces of paper is your lender going to need? Do they need to know the last time you had your period and your whole cycle? Come on.

[00:21:42] I was like, I just want you to know how normal you are. Just what you thought, you've provided the last piece of paper they need for more. Keep it up. You're in the home stretch. So I just want to just tell them you're normal because we forget we help buyers and sellers through this process week after week, month after month, year after year. And most people do not buy or sell, but once every three, five or seven years, right?

[00:22:06] So you are the carrier of normalcy and you can tell them how normal they are when they're feeling shaky on the inside and don't know how to rectify the tension between I hate this process, but yet I want the end result. Yes. Right? Right? So that's a lot of our job is to remind our clients just how normal they are. Not in a just vacant way, but just like, no, I'm telling you you're normal because I literally just talked to someone two days ago in your same position, right?

[00:22:35] And you just put their shoulders down and back. Do you set expectations for your clients? I mean, you know these folks so well at this point, but you've got two new buyers at this point, right? Coming into a, man, that is exciting. God, I love a first-time buyer. It's the greatest thing in the world. I've got a first-generation home buyer right now and I am just like, let's go. I don't have, your budget is 50 bucks. Like, let's go. It's just so feel good.

[00:23:01] I am curious when you have some big dates coming up, how much expectation setting you do with those new clients or even seasoned clients who haven't bought and sold in a while? Like, are you saying, okay, next week we've got that inspection resolution. Here's typically kind of what I see. Or like, how much are you doing to prepare them for what it might feel like emotionally?

[00:23:23] I'm glad you asked that because that's an area of sharpening for me because I feel like the longer you do it, the more accustomed you can become to everything's going to work out just fine. Yeah. Instead of preparing them. Right? Right? So that's a growth edge for me. So I'm glad you brought that up. I remember telling my current buyers, I said, listen, after we get this under contract, you know, price and terms and the contingencies and how all of that works, remember, we will have two more.

[00:23:53] We're going to have your appraisal contingencies. And here's what that could look like. If it appraises below, here will be our choices. Then you'll have a third negotiation, which is inspection. And here's typically what that looks like. We don't, we're not going to volley five times like we did on price and terms. This will be like a short pickleball game. And so just kind of like setting them up. I want to do a better job with that. And I did that with my, the current buyers that are under contract now.

[00:24:18] And I remember thinking, oh yeah, I want to continue to do this and remind them, like, you kind of feel like, yes, I have under contract and we're done. And then the realtors, we know we're not done, but how often do we not give voice to be like, oh my gosh, congratulations. We're through the first of three. Yeah. You have merged onto the highway. Congratulations. Yes. We're about to drive fast. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

[00:24:45] So I believe setting expectations is something that is really, again, to add to them feeling normal. Right. And I'm like, is it, oh, it just feels so like edgy. I'm like, oh my gosh. You're like, yeah, totally normal. And just remember, I'm the quarterback. None of these dates are going to come and go. Right. Without me coaching you along and say, okay, coming up this week. By Friday, we should hear back on our inspection items. And it could look like a few things. Right. And then they're a little more prepared. So I want to do a better job in that.

[00:25:14] The best advice I ever got when I started was, especially for new home buyers, but to be honest, I've done it. Anyone who hasn't bought and sold in a while, I walk through the contract with them line by line well before we find the house they love. Oh, what a great idea. It is one of the great moments because you get to, A, kind of show them you understand the contract. Take the fear away of, oh, I'm just going to hand you this 28-page document full of legalese. Totally.

[00:25:44] And there's a time clock that's already started. When there's a house we really want, when there's other offers, like it takes all the urgency away because we've talked about what it looks like. We've talked about all the sections we can slide if we need to. And then they're seeing it again. Then we go through it again. But it's not the first time they've looked at it. And I think it really adds color to, okay, why is the inspection so important? Why is the appraisal so important? Okay, here's its role in the offer.

[00:26:10] And that for me has really – and I think it's also such a trust builder because they get to say, what the heck does that mean? I don't know what that is. Like there's so much room to be human in that conversation and be like, I don't know what this means. Totally. And really build trust before you hit the speed up button and find something you love. Totally. And gosh, here we are, ladies and gentlemen, listening to our hostess for highest and best. And she is giving highest and best practice.

[00:26:36] I am taking this, Sarah, with me to be like, let's go over this contract in advance before, you know, like everything's heightened. How much do you think we should offer? Oh, my gosh, we really want it, Sarah. Okay, remember, we've looked at this. We're going to go back through, right? Here's what it looks like when we make an offer. Let's – you know, so I just think you take away that kind of like – That happens. We like the house and now what? And I'm like, oh, here's 28 pages you've never seen before and you're never going to understand because it's not your job.

[00:27:05] Oh, here's 175 pages of lender paperwork. Here's a stellar property disclosure and a title commitment. And all of this is going to come in the next seven days and you're not going to know what one word of this means. And then in the meantime, you may – That's so unfair. Yes, you're right. And then we're – and then in the meantime, going in the foreground of their life, they still have to get kids off to school, figure out what they're making for dinner, go to a job, attend meetings.

[00:27:32] And then they're supposed to talk to you in between and not be overwhelmed by 20 pages. Yes. It's so, so much – I agree with you totally that I always try to set clients up too with the like, hey, when we find a place and we go under contract, yes, it is celebratory. It is the beginning. And in the two weeks-ish after that, like this will be a full-time job. So we'll figure out how to make it work around your other full-time job, but like just to prepare yourself.

[00:28:00] And if we need to think about the timing, let's think about timing. If a month from now is a better time for you to deal with all of this, let's wait because it's a loss. It is a loss. I make it akin to folks that have gone through wedding planning. I'm like, oh, yeah, no one told you that in addition to your job, you also need to pick the venue, negotiate room rates for out-of-town guests, meet with the florist, and go taste cake. Do all of that in addition to your job.

[00:28:30] And you're like, what? Well, this is supposed to be fun. Planning a wedding. What? I thought buying a house was supposed to be fun. You're like, the hunt is fun. Looking at houses is fun. As fun. As possible. Fun. In between. Yeah. Yeah. Negotiating paperwork, another DocuSign, slipping out into your car to take a call with your realtor because you cannot talk in the middle of your office about it.

[00:28:56] And then packing boxes between 8 and 11 p.m. at night is not fun. No. Newsflash. Yeah. Even just this conversation is such a good reminder for me that there's just – I've got a listing across the street from me right now. My clients are older. They've been there for 25 years. Wow. And they are very ready for the next step. So I'm not necessarily dealing with the grief of the space, but there's 25 years, you know, and they haven't done this in a while. And so it's a lot of re-education, which I love doing.

[00:29:26] Yeah. Along with the uncertainty of, oh, my gosh, what is it going to feel like to live in this new city, in this new apartment, in this new thing. And so it is so much. We are on so many levels therapists. Yeah. But maybe this lends itself to your answer to my next question. But I think we, in this market, we recognize like-minded realtors. We recognize people who do it the way we do, right? And we're like, oh, you're my type. You're my type. Right. Right. I'm so glad you're on the other side of this deal.

[00:29:56] I'm so glad you're on this. And then there's the others, right, that do things differently. Yes. When you look at the 22 years that you have been doing this and the people that you are working with, I know that on some of these calls you get the little flag of, oh, I like it. Oh, you know what you're doing. Oh, I like that you did that. What are the signs for you that there's a difference here between a good realtor, a mediocre realtor, and like the top tier great realtor? What, in your mind, sets them apart?

[00:30:25] Well, to use a word that you have taught me, those that have like a big-hearted approach to it, the realtor on the other end tends to be solution-oriented, right, and knows that there is no win unless, you know, everyone needs to get a little uncomfortable usually to have a win.

[00:30:42] And the ones that have less EQ are only come about it from, it's a win-lose, you know, often will kind of come in very hot, you know, be like, well, you know, an example could be like, let's say I have the buyer and they're like, you know, what's this stuff? What are there, 16 items here? Like, this is crazy. I mean, you just want to give me the whole inspection report and say fix everything, right? If they come in, and again, I'm not going to call it necessarily deficiency, but I call it a difference from how I would approach it.

[00:31:11] You know, I think you start with agreement. Oh, gosh, I hear you. 16 is a lot. You are not wrong, John. You are not wrong. 16 is a lot. May I give you a little context? And you wait for them to say, well, sure. You wait for them to say, yes, thanks so much. I'll be brief, but I do think context matters, right? Because behind these real estate addendums and things are real people. Here's the deal. My client is 73 years old. She's a single woman.

[00:31:40] So therefore, moving into a place that's a little more done, you can understand that this was your own mother, John. You really like to have a lot of these things done instead of her trying to arrange for it at this season of her life. So we're hoping that your seller is in a position to really turn this property over in a way that she can start using it without a lot of the stresses that would come from a 73-year-old single woman versus your clients in their 30s probably with a big Rolodex of who can help her tackling something on their own.

[00:32:09] So I'd start there, John, right, about why they're 16 items. And we're hoping that at least a good two-thirds of them can be a guess. How does that sound? And the next thing you know, your big-hearted approach has caused them to maybe get in their helicopter and look at the big picture instead of like, these 16 things are not going to work, right? Then you're giving them talking points for their seller, right?

[00:32:34] And a lot of times I feel like we are helping the agents then talk to their agent in a way that reminds them of the real people behind the real estate deal. And they're like, oh, yeah, that makes sense, right? But I think it's incumbent upon agents to say why it makes sense versus here's the 16 items, call me with questions, right? Versus, hey, can we hop on a call, right? And letting that other agent just go ahead and be frustrated. That's all right, right?

[00:33:03] It's okay, right? And then say, oh, here's the why. What a good reminder. Well, another good reason why women are so grievous job is we're very connected to the why instead of like the what and the what's next, which is I think sometimes how men approach it, right? Like how do we get through this as fast as possible instead of women? We can slow down and be like, here's the why. And when you know the why, it helps everyone show up a little more big-hearted. Right? Like, oh, makes sense, right?

[00:33:30] This is not, you know, in our example, a buyer looking to like get every penny out of them and do all this big long laundry list. No. She's 73 and single people. Yeah. You know, that's why she wants you to go ahead and take care of the disposal that doesn't work. Yeah. Right. You know? Oh, I just, your phrases always kind of like stick in my head, but the thought of being like, oh, my God. If someone came at me with that sort of aggression, having the wherewithal to say like, oh, my God, you are right.

[00:34:00] You are right. May I give you some context? I just like, I need you in my pocket. I need you like, I need a little mini dev right here being like, oh, here's how you phrase it, Sarah. Because the way you just put that, who wouldn't respond positively to that? I think your approach is just so unique and I love it. Well, thank you. And that's not to mean it always works. Like, we're always sending silver bullets. Jerks can be jerks. You know that agent that's, let me just go and tell you, there's not a planet where they're doing it or whatever. And be like, I so appreciate your efforts. Right?

[00:34:29] And as far as it depends on us, we show up, you know, with context, big heartedness, the why behind it. And then there's that part when you're like serenity prayer. Right? You're like, oh, now I cannot control. But I've done everything in my power, you know, for my clients. And we will see how they come out. But it's really great when you have the more hostile agent or even not to use as negative of a word, but just more maybe like black and white, not seeing like the bigger pick, whatever.

[00:34:57] You know, it's great to find an agreement point with them right away. Like, yes, I hear you. 16. I mean, no, you were hoping for five or less. Me too. You know, like to be to become friends about it and just not letting them make you a foe. Right? I love that. I'm friends with this. And then move on. But I think that heart posture really helps. Oh, I love that so much.

[00:35:22] And it leads me to my next question, which is I actually, in thinking about this podcast, I met this incredible young agent a few months ago. And I just adore her. And I'm on a cohort with her. And my original thought was like, let me put them together on this podcast and have this new agent who already I can tell is so big hearted meet with this very seasoned agent and be able to ask questions.

[00:35:45] And so in lieu of doing that, if you met with a new realtor and they were young and they were hungry and they said, okay, give me some advice here. How do I get rolling? How do I do this right? Set me on the right path early. What are three things that you would tell them to help them kind of get on the right road early on? That's good. I would first tell them your softness is not weakness.

[00:36:16] So let's start there. Your softness is not weakness. How much you care and the reasons you're getting into this. You're going to meet brokers who've been at it 5, 10, 15, 20, 20, 20, 30, 35 years. Others who you will meet at open houses or in your office who are a little jaded, you know, or a little tired. That makes sense. I hope you know what you signed up for. This kind of attitude. So I said, you will let that just roll right off of you. Right. And you're not going to, you're not going to let it harden you.

[00:36:46] You're going to stay soft and diligent and focused. Do the next right thing. So that's the first thing I would tell them, you know, because the older agents love to be like, well, yeah, some of these young bucks. You're ready to lose your personal life. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah. Thank you. I guess you can do this job better because you know how to do the TikToks or whatever. I'm like, oh, they will say what they will say, but you stay committed. Right. You are going to show up as your authentic self and there is room for you in this business.

[00:37:15] So keep that in mind. So I make sure their mindset had some of that kind of rolling in the background. The second thing I would tell them is I draw like a little bullseye on a piece of paper for them, which is an exercise I do with some new agents if they ask for some coaching. And then we'll label at the middle of that bullseye. Who are your like targeted buyers and sellers? Who do you already know? Who do you already have a sphere of influence with? Is it the soccer sidelines?

[00:37:44] Because you're, you've got a child in soccer. Is it some of the philanthropy that you're in? Your interests will start there and then we'll start making rings, right? Right. Who's at the middle? That's very easy for you to talk to. And then your next ring, right? Like you may be some friends and family that have a sphere of influence that you're connected to. And we would put real names on this piece of paper all the way around. Right. And then we're going to go straight to the middle at the start. Right. And how do we talk to and market to them? And then we'll keep going on our circles. Right.

[00:38:13] And then how do we build out your Instagram? So some of it attracts other people that are outside of your kind of like your core sort of target. And so I think that would be the second thing I would share. And the third thing I would say is let's go ahead and get comfortable being uncomfortable. That is a necessity in this business. Right. So you're going to get comfortable being uncomfortable in the soccer example.

[00:38:39] If you're on the soccer sideline, you're not going to be an undercover agent who doesn't want to say anything because you think you're being extra or pushy. No, no. Very authentic. Good to see you, Elaine. Yeah. Can you believe we have three practices this week? What is that about? Right. You're just hanging out and doing your thing. And then, hey, what's been the highlight of your week? Just connecting how you do. Right. And say, and then if they don't ask the same back, no problem. You'll be like, I'll tell you a highlight for me.

[00:39:05] I don't know if I told you, but I just started in real estate two months ago and I had my first like real legit lead. It was just so cool. Oh, I didn't know you were in real estate. Yeah. And here's my why. And remind me what you do. So you're going to get comfortable being uncomfortable and letting people know you're in the business because some agents are afraid to say they aren't in real estate. You're a little bashful about it instead of bringing it up. And because we have a dynamic industry, we're not selling plumbing parts.

[00:39:34] We're not in a boring industry. It's very easy to be energized about it. Like people like, oh my gosh, you're in real estate. Oh my God. I heard someone in my neighborhood just got, you know, a hundred thousand over ask. Oh, really? Where's that? You just start naturally talking about real estate. And then people remember, oh yeah, that girl. What was it? Deb? I think that was her name. Oh yeah. She's in real estate. Right. Right. So you're going to get comfortable being uncomfortable because really it's just your nervous system saying, I haven't done this before. It's not scary.

[00:40:03] It's not rude. It's not pushy. It's none of those things that we tell ourselves so that we like don't say anything. No, you're going to be comfortable being uncomfortable. And then it's just going to be organic along the way. So those would be my three. Well, this might, I think that this also is probably going to be half your answer for the next one. And I feel like I'm asking like Tom Brady how to throw a football in this one a little

[00:40:30] bit, but how do you, I feel like you were like born to host an open house. You're just a, like you're a host. Sweet. And so, but you know what we talk about a lot is how to convert the people coming into your open house and make them clients. And on the base level, it's like, yeah, talk to them, get to know them, right? Find that moment to say, if you guys ever need any help with anything, my info is on the document, whatever. Here's my challenge. I connect with people all the time at open houses. I tell them to call me.

[00:41:01] I'm not getting their info. And I think that's the missing piece because then I can't follow up. They walk away. They have a great week and they're like, God, that gal from that listing was so great. What was her name? I don't know. I don't know what they need to follow up. A hundred percent. I mean, I know Jackson's a little bit of a different market in terms of open houses, but do you convert people from open houses? I do. I had an open house on Wednesday and I believe I've got two that I would call legit leads that have, that I could verbally vet.

[00:41:31] And just again, to our point of women having just EQ, I'm like, yeah, I want to improve in this area too. This is a growth edge for me because I do exactly what you just said. Hey, y'all have got, you picked up the brochure. Yeah. My info's on the back. Don't hesitate. I'm here. Right. I believe we need to make them sign the sign and sheet for what you said, because it puts us in a defensive posture instead of offense. Right.

[00:41:57] So that is an area where I'm going to change effective yesterday is to be like, yeah, no, we did connect. I could tell they would a hundred percent call me. Like they could tell. Oh yeah. I trust. And they don't. Because life, but life, life, life, that's what we say. Right. And it's like, yes, because life. Yeah. And so I do think a great way to kind of do the next step there. This is, I'm glad we're talking about this because this can be a challenge to be like, oh yeah, Sarah and I talked about it on a, much less did we talk about it on a public platform, like a podcast.

[00:42:25] So now there's some accountability that I accept to start doing it differently. I believe something we could do is then send, like, if you had them put in their, you know, phone email and if they're resistant, no problem. But if they do right, it's to send them a video message. If they put their stuff on, you know, cause then it just elevates. I don't know the connection point and say, really enjoyed you being here. I love that question you asked about how many units are in this development. It's actually 66. I didn't know when you were here. Just wanted to follow up.

[00:42:55] I'll send my V card. So you've got it handy and then tell them what you want them to do. Please save this in your phone. Yeah. Go ahead and tell them, save it. Right. Say. And so I think we could do better about telling them what we want them to do. Yes. You know, I totally agree. I totally agree with that. Yeah. That is where I get uncomfortable is that final step of being like, why don't you give me, I'd love to get your info also. Cause that's when you see people kind of be like, oh God, am I going to get emails from you? Whatever.

[00:43:25] And it feels uncomfortable, but here's the thing. What's the lot? Like if you're never going to see them again, who cares? And I think if you do it right, I don't think you're going to lose them by doing that next step. I don't think they're going to say, oh, she was a little pushy at the end there. And you're right. And if they do great, but you're going to lose them anyway. Those guys aren't going to call you in. Yeah. So why not? And I'm saying this to myself in this moment as well.

[00:43:51] After the open house, when we get to a place where you are really fostering these relationships for life, you're working with the parents, you're working with the kids, you've got the sister, the brother. I know that you are the queen of this. What is it beyond all the things we've talked about, right? Warmth, empathy, true connection, walking them through difficult moments with thoughtfulness. That, of course, is going to get you a time for life. What else are you doing? Are you keeping them in the loop via a newsletter?

[00:44:20] Are you sending seasonal gifts? Are you checking in? What are you doing? Yes. And that's also a great. And one thing I want to do is rewind and give us an idea. Also, at our open houses, maybe on the sign-in sheet, we leave a little box. Like, would like your newsletter? Or like, please do not. So that lets them be like, oh, okay. Okay. That's the thing I love. I love that.

[00:44:53] These are two townhomes side-by-side that are in the short-term lodging overlay. I did not have the projections fully printed. I just had kind of like a summary instead of the full thing for occupancy and which part of the year gets what dollars. I did not have that whole thing. So it was very natural to be able to say, oh, I'm so sorry I didn't have the full outpost projections. Pop me an email and I'll send it to you. Maybe we purposely don't have every little last bit of information out on the table of the open house, right?

[00:45:22] And that could be like a box. Please send. Give them something that they're opting for what they want from you. I like that a lot. A man will try that. What else do you do over the course of, I mean, I'm sure you're the world's best gift giver. What do you do to stay connected with your sphere? Because I bet Jackson is more probably out-of-state folks than even locals. Like, how are you keeping folks and creating kind of those clients for life? I love to do their home-aversary.

[00:45:50] Ain't nobody going to remember when they bought their house. So when I close, I put it on my calendar right away one week from then, right? It's been one week. Can you believe you closed last Tuesday? And how's the following Tuesday? What questions do you have? You know, what's it? And then one month. One month out. Six months out. And then every year I do that. And that's really fun because they're like, how do you remember? And you're like, I have a calendar and two thumbs. And I just put it in my phone. So much credit when you're like, oh my gosh.

[00:46:20] So I call it their home-aversary. So I love doing that. I do. That's an area of growth for me. I do not do a newsletter. I would love to stay more top of mind with my people. So there's some best practices that are not, that are fallowed, that are not in the field producing fruit for me, right? You're like, oh, big miss. You know, I would like to create time to do such a thing. And I believe just picking up the phone, I think in this day and age, so many people, myself included, right?

[00:46:48] Have a lot of like text relationships and things like that. When you pick up the phone, you are already setting yourself apart and that you really care. Right? Right. So I will just pick up the phone. And I think some of it can be so organic. Let's say you're in a season of your business where you have less going on. You're like out for open houses. This is a great time to what I call smile and dial. Well, let's say an area in my market would be Melody Ranch.

[00:47:14] Hey, Mark, I was just in Melody Ranch looking at some open houses. So you're already reminding them that you're in real estate, right? And if you can believe it, it's a 3.2 like yours, but I think they're big on price, but they may not be far off. They're asking, you know, 3.4. We'll see what happens on that one. But anyway, I was driving through and just thought of you and no one's a mind reader. So I just had to pick up the phone and say, hey, right? You remind them you're in real estate. They're like, what? There's something in our neighborhood for that price.

[00:47:43] What does that mean ours is worth? Right? So now you've in a very easygoing way have made good use of that opportunity of you organically, authentically, right? You're not like sitting at your desk being like, okay, now I'm going to call. Just checking in. Lame, right? So do it when you're in the car, right? And if they pick up, great. And if they don't, that's great too, right? And you look different because you called. Yeah.

[00:48:12] And it doesn't mean they're going to call you back, but they're probably going to listen, right? And if they hear like, what? 3.4 in my neighborhood, right? You've given them something useful and valuable, you know? So I think that's another way I stay in front of my clients is just things like that, you know? Or like, yeah. Or like, hey, tax bill's almost out. Let me know if you want to talk about the comps they use if the bill feels too big, you know, that kind of thing. That's a nice yearly thing, right? Or it's tax or all your clients that closed the year before.

[00:48:40] Or I know that CPA of yours is going to be like, where's that closing statement? I'm going to go ahead and email it to you. So it's top of your inbox. Ooh, I love that. In case you don't have it handy. I know I wouldn't, you know? But I know you're the best to see. I've got it, you know? So little things like that I think we can use to our advantage. Yep. Right. I love those. I know it's noon. Do you have to go? Or do you have time for one more question? Oh, I definitely have time for one more question. I did not expect you to say that.

[00:49:09] Oh, well, I do. Okay. Well, if you have more time for one question, I'm going to ask you two questions. Okay. Do you customize your client gifts based on the client? Or have you developed over the years a like series of gifts that are kind of the same thing or the same bucket for time management purposes? Or are you running all over town customizing like I did at the beginning? I'm going all over town. I'm going all over town. I'm acting like it is my part-time job. Yes.

[00:49:39] And maybe it's because to our point of real estate being authentic to us, I enjoy gift giving. So I like that part. But then there are times I'm like, man, it would be great if my office in the corner had a couple pre-made ideas. Because then what happens when you run out of time? I have 100% been that agent that ran out of time to do the very thoughtful thing. Yeah. So I think we should do a hybrid. I think we should have some like plug and play. I'm doing a hybrid right now.

[00:50:06] And I'm doing them throughout the process, which is something I got from Unreasonable Hospitality, which if you haven't read that book. I have got to read it. I'm so glad. You're going to lose your mind. It's so good. But I do. Thank you for picking me as your realtor gift. Just a little guy. It's like a mug and some like granola. It's very like, and then I put an under contract gift. Oh my gosh. And then I do a closing. So it doesn't feel like I have to go big on the closing. But I pull, yeah, I pull a mug.

[00:50:36] I've got everything in my garage. Mug, granola. Here you go. The middle one. Here I go. And then at the end, I can customize a little bit. But it has helped me dramatically because time is not something I have a lot of. No. I love this. I'm taking this highest of this practice from Sarah Hubbard. The other thing, you know, not to be a jerk, but I will go way over what I should spend if I'm customizing. Yeah. There's a couple of closings. I'm like, what was I thinking?

[00:51:04] I took them out to lunch. It ended up being 300 bucks. I bought the home warranty. That was 400 bucks. Then I got them this gift because I felt like they wouldn't really think about the other two things. So then I got them this gift. So all of a sudden I'm at a thousand bucks. Like, what am I doing? What am I doing? Yeah. Yeah. What am I doing? You're like, but it was so fun. It was so fun. And I have bills. It's like, yeah. Okay. Last question for you as you're moving through your beautiful home. Oh, you're sweet. Please.

[00:51:32] You, I think are now, since you started this business, you've got two beautiful kiddos. You've got an amazing partner. You've got this great community in Jackson. What does success look like for you now? Are you scaling back? Are you trying to find a certain type of client? Like, what is it? Your successful kind of business landscape look like? And I will throw in that, you know, word, work-life balance. What does success look like now compared to the beginning when you were just like hungry,

[00:52:00] hungry, hunger, hustle, hustle, hustle, hippo? Totally. And I feel like I'm like the YouTube song. Because I still haven't found what I'm making for. You haven't figured it out? No. I can give you the words that I want, but I cannot look my friend in the eyeball and be like, and that is aligned with what I'm doing. Aspirational. Aspirational. Yes.

[00:52:25] So aspirational would be that my day, the way I use my time, would be more aligned with everything that I value. So I may be able to tell you I really value living in a mountain town and being able to be it on my bike or on a trail in three minutes time. It's the very things that I tell my client. And then I find myself work, work, work, work, work, work, work until it's 2.50, jump into the carpool line at 3, get home, get a snack.

[00:52:53] We're going to let you have a little iPad time and I'm going to finish four more tasks and then I'm going to do dinner and then I'm going to rinse and repeat. And I lament that I have not used my time and sort of the success I've been grateful, thank you, Lord, that I have to then kind of rearrange my time. So success to me would look like most days or at least a few days of the week, what I've

[00:53:22] said is important. You could be like an alien from outer space and follow me around and be like, yeah, I can tell that's important to her versus those are words because I never, she went out on her bike. She didn't go up high school one time this week. Yeah. She talked to clients about, oh, this is a great part of living in this part of town because it's so close by. You can just go up and down real quick. She hasn't done that. I do that too. And I laugh. I'm like, oh, this restaurant and this hike and this.

[00:53:50] And I'm like, haven't done that in a while. Haven't done that in a while. You know, if I see other women, like if I'm, let's say I'm driving to back to the office and I see someone doing the very thing that I wish I was doing, I heart check, note my jealousy and be like, oh yeah, that's just because there's a disconnect, Deb. That's something you want to be doing more of. Yeah. Time freedom.

[00:54:21] Yeah. Time freedom. Thank you for giving me a word. I'm like, what is it? It's like, it's not aligned with like what I value and what I'm doing. So yes, time freedom that is aligned with what I truly say that I value. I love it. I want that for you too. I wish you lived down the street and we could use our time freedom together. I know that you're so busy. I need four more hours with you to catch up on all the things that we don't want publicly broadcasted. I love you and I'm so grateful.

[00:54:47] I think I really do mean this, that the way that you do real estate is such a big part of inspiring me to pursue this career because I knew I could do it in a way that felt authentic to me because of you. And so I want to thank you for that. And you are always just this person I think about calling if things get good and things get bad. And your advice is always so well served as I'm sure the past 45 minutes have been for people. So thank you. And I adore you. Thanks so much for listening.

[00:55:13] And it's my goal to have this podcast be created for and by agents. So your input is absolutely encouraged. If you know another amazing agent, author, athlete, executive, or all around badass woman you think I should interview, or you have a topic or discussion you'd love to see us cover, please email me at sarah.hubbard at compass.com. Thank you.