Angie Noggle - Supporting Seniors and Connecting w Community

[00:00:01] Welcome to Highest and Best, a podcast for women in real estate, where we explore the freedoms and complexities of this high-intensity career. From candid conversations with top agents to inspiring interviews with coaches, researchers, athletes, and female executives, we share valuable tools to help you stay calm, confident, and continue to show up as your highest and best self. Thanks so much for listening.

[00:00:27] Welcome to Highest and Best. I'm your host, Sarah Hubbard. I have one of my favorite realtors on the podcast today, Angie Noggle, who is an agent in Venice, California. We're going to talk about her background in real estate. We're also going to talk a little bit about the special considerations that, as agents, we need to think about when we're working with older clients as well. But welcome to the podcast, Angie. Thanks, Sarah. I'm so excited to be here.

[00:00:53] I know. I'm laughing, obviously, because I almost forgot to press record because we were just chit-chatting. So let's talk business for a second. But I obviously know your history in real estate and a lot about you. But for those listening, tell us kind of how your real estate career began, how long ago, and then we can get a little bit into this certification.

[00:01:15] Okay, sure. So I actually have a couple of careers before real estate. My degree is in accounting. And so way back when I was a CPA for a while, I worked at Cooper's and Liveren. That will date me, even before it was PricewaterhouseCoopers.

[00:01:32] But I did accounting for about 10 years in various forms. Definitely was not suited for me. Just, you know, everyone that I met was like, oh, you should be in sales. And so I eventually transitioned into sales. I worked for a company called R.R. Donnelly, and they are based out of Chicago. I'm from the Midwest.

[00:01:49] And I worked there for 20 years doing business to business sales with, you know, large corporations doing multimillion dollar contracts. And again, you know, it just was not anything that I would say filled my soul, just never truly felt like the right fit for me.

[00:02:06] I had always wanted or not wanted, always thought about becoming a real estate agent and hesitated doing it just because so many people become real estate agents and there always just seems to be an abundance of them.

[00:02:21] And I, you know, I thought anyone can be a real estate agent. And I finally, during COVID, decided that it was time for me to make a change and got my license. Best thing I ever did. I learned that not everybody can be a real estate agent, right? Like, as you know, I'm sure to be a really good real estate agent takes a lot of work.

[00:02:42] It takes a lot of knowledge. And it's not easy. But it is the first job I ever had that feels like a part of me that I don't feel that I'm going to work every day, that it's just something that I do. I love it. I love being of service to people. And, you know, Sunday nights or Friday night since we work weekends, like I never care about the fact that I have to work. I never feel like, oh, geez, I have to work. It just it's.

[00:03:08] I get to be with people. I get to help them achieve things they want to achieve and meet their goals. And it's the best thing ever. Yeah, it is so feel good. And, you know, obviously, we know each other pretty well at this point and have talked about all of the facets of this industry, which is kind of the core of this podcast is really opening up a little bit the discussion to how complex it really is.

[00:03:31] Because on the surface, I think, as you said, everyone thinks they can be a realtor. And they can for all intents and purposes. Anybody can pass the test. The bar is pretty low.

[00:03:40] The test is amorphous. But the amount of knowledge to be a good realtor is really kind of like overwhelming. I mean, if you take even just the paperwork and the contracting off the table for a minute, which is, of course, table stakes, you get into this world of also a knowledge of how a home is built and works.

[00:04:04] Systems, roofs, foundations, all of like the HVAC, you know, it's the amount of knowledge I now have just about homes and how to fix things. And, you know, I'm able to repair things I never even thought, you know, I knew nothing about before. And so navigating an inspection resolution, navigating really specific things around mold or hazards.

[00:04:28] I just feel like the amount of knowledge to be really, you know, kind of kind of dangerous in a good way in this career is it's a lot to say the least. And that's not even touching on the emotional guidance that we do for our clients. So, yes. So true. I mean, even new construction, right? And it seems like, so I've been doing this for six years now. I learn something, I mean, all the time, constantly learning.

[00:04:57] But with every transaction that I do, there's always something that I haven't dealt with before in one form or another, whether it is emotional or whether it's something, you know, related to the house itself. Like it's, we're constantly evolving. And I don't foresee that ever changing. I think because you're always dealing with unique individuals, right? Unique situations, unique properties. There's always going to be something new. So many personalities on every single deal.

[00:05:23] And you have a stunning $4.6 million listing in Venice right now. 4.7 and a half. 4.7 and a half. That is a new build. Was that your first experience working with a developer on the build or do you have experience in that? It was. I've got a couple now, but yes. So it was my first experience. I actually sold the property. It was someone who wanted to sell their home off market. And so we sold to a developer.

[00:05:49] And I got to go through the construction process, which was, I mean, we were talking about that, like what can be built on this size lot? What, you know, what are the setbacks? All of that information. And just kind of seeing how, I don't know, how a home becomes a home, really. And watching that and then launching it to go onto the market was quite a learning experience for me as well.

[00:06:13] Because never having done like a ground up construction on a home, I didn't realize how quickly something can come together. Like when we went to take the marketing photos, the developer who's selling the home wanted to get it on the market. And I went there the day before the photos and I was like, there's no way that's going to be ready. Like we cannot take. Right. Exactly. Like people are working on this property. We are not going to be able to take photos. I went back 24 hours later and it was, I would not say 100% photo ready, but we definitely got beautiful photos.

[00:06:42] Like we had to work around some angles on a few things, but we were able to get beautiful photographs. And now, you know, just a few days after that, like the property is almost 100% complete. Like they, it was impressive the way that they put it together. And then even the finishing touches, I went through the house and I'm like, oh my gosh, like some of this isn't complete and they're leaving it undone. Nope. 24 hours later, I went in there and it was picture perfect. Perfect.

[00:07:09] So it's, and it's really fun to just see, you know, a property like that and get to talk to all the people and be so excited about something that's new and beautiful. I think also I was just talking to a younger agent about this the other day. Just getting your license is a little bit of a gateway into a lot of different categories of real estate. And I think you can specialize if you want to. You can also kind of be a generalist.

[00:07:35] But, you know, working with buyers and sellers on residential property, of course, is one of the most obvious first avenues. And then transitioning as you have into new builds, partnering with developers is kind of that next tier. Potentially also income and investment properties is another category bringing with it its own set of learnings.

[00:07:59] And then what we're going to talk about today is working specifically with an older demographic of client. And I think I am always so impressed by agents who have diversified across a wide range of categories. I think it's really interesting. There's always like more ways we can, I think, expand our knowledge and our services.

[00:08:21] And I'm really excited to talk about this today because I think almost any realtor at some point is going to get a call from a client who's a little bit older. It might be a friend's parents. It might be folks you grew up with. It might be your own parents. And there really are some special considerations in working with this group. And so I want to talk through that a little bit. But tell me why this felt important for you to get this specific certification.

[00:08:48] And tell me what this is for those who might be interested in pursuing it. So the certification, it's called a CSA. It's a Certified Senior Advisor. And this is not something that I initially sought out working with seniors. It was something that sort of just happened. And sort of like what you mentioned, right? Like someone reached out to me saying, hey, this is actually a neighbor in my neighborhood.

[00:09:12] And wanted me to, wanted to make sure that this person was going to be in good hands and someone that would take good care of them. And in doing that, because regardless of age, right? I think you're very similar with this, Sarah, right? Like my drive comes from wanting to support my clients, right? And wanting to be of service to them, as I mentioned before. So it's just something that comes naturally to me. Like it doesn't matter if you're older, if you're younger.

[00:09:42] Like I'm going to do whatever you need me to do to help you achieve what you want to achieve. But in this situation, it was, you know, it was someone who was older. They were living and they had been in their home for over 30 years. And their husband had just recently passed and they were on their own. And it was something where I quickly saw that this wasn't going to be just your normal real estate transaction.

[00:10:10] This really wasn't about selling someone's home. This was about supporting someone through a very difficult transition in their life. And that's what we see so many times with older people. It's really not about the house. It's about the person. And it always is, right? It always is. We really are always focused on our clients. But even more so in this. Because when you're working with someone older, it's very likely that this is going to be one of their last transitions, right? They know this too.

[00:10:40] They know that wherever they're going next is most likely going to be their last home, their last place that they live. And there's a lot of emotion tied to that, right? That is not just their house. That is their life. That is the memories of their children or memories of their childhood. Like there's so much more tied into that than just selling a house.

[00:11:03] It's, it's, you have to be able to work with them and support them and make sure that their wants and needs are honored, which I think is overlooked so many times as people get older. Yes, precisely, for sure. Yes. Right? Like they still know what they want. They still have desires and dreams even of what they want to do, right? And so you need to, and that's, that's one of the things in getting the certification, I almost was going to say, I didn't, didn't think it was necessary because it's not that bad.

[00:11:33] I guess the reason I wanted it because I think it's a need that's not being met out there, right? I saw this by working with this person and now additional people after my, the initial person. It's a special skill set. Not just anyone can do it. You have to really have the mindset of wanting to help and a lot of knowledge.

[00:11:52] And that's where the certification comes in because there are aspects that I might not have thought that I needed to know in order to truly support senior citizens that the certification made sure I knew. And so it's not, it's definitely not something like a lot of real estate classes, like you'll see sometimes real estate agents with all these certifications. And that's like a, you know, 48 hour class that they take over a weekend or something like that and something very simple. And I'm not by any means poo-pooing those.

[00:12:21] Like I think any additional education you get for yourself is fantastic, right? If you're willing to learn, I am all for it. This, however, is a, I'm trying to remember how long it took me to get through it, but it's no, I, it reminded me. It's a commitment. It's no walk in the park. It is a commitment for sure. And it has different sections that you're studying and quite a few of them. You're taking tests along the way.

[00:12:44] It is a, an exam, very similar to the real estate exam where you have to go in, you are monitored. You have a time limit that you can finish this exam and you are covering, and this is where it reminded me of the real estate exam, because there is so much information that you need to know. And you're going to be tested on such a small portion of that, but you have to know it all because you don't know what's going to be on the exam.

[00:13:10] So you have to have all of this information and it covers everything from the aging process, family dynamics, family systems, you know, the financial resources and considerations. I mean, you're even delving into retirement plans, social security, all, I mean, it's a lot, taxes, especially different types of housing, right? You've got a senior living, you've got assisted living. There's all these different levels of support within housing.

[00:13:38] You've about make taking, if they want to stay in home, what you need to do to keep their home safe so that they can age in place is what that's called. And really, I mean, even things like, unfortunately, elder abuse and, you know, things that do exist that you need to know the signs of. And so it's all of these things that basically covers the entire gamut of aging and what you need to know to support someone going through this process. And then the emotional piece of it as well, right?

[00:14:05] Like to really, like I said before, to understand what they're going through and to honor what they want. Yeah. You know, the thing that I feel like has come up quite a bit in my own life with my aging parents, but also with clients is my fear around the fraud piece. So just the technology piece, I even, you know, I've got clients in their 30s and I think I sent five texts last week. It's their first sale that just said, call the title company for the wiring instructions. Please just call the title, you know, don't click on anything, don't do anything.

[00:14:35] And so the fraud piece and I think the intelligence of folks trying to steal money is the thing that I think scares me the most. And also having clients who are older, beyond them clicking on something that looks like it's from me or the title company or their lender, is just, I think, an awareness that they know what they're signing. They know what they're choosing. They know what that decision means for them, for their finances.

[00:15:04] They're going in eyes wide open to, you know, even a sale of a house. They know really what the whole endgame net profit looks like so they can plan their future accordingly, right? And so there is a lot of consideration and I think it's a really big hearted process working with seniors. And I think you really, really have to take it seriously and take the ramification seriously.

[00:15:31] That's why I think the certification is just so impressive and so needed. I mean, gosh, this category of buyer-seller is just massive. What would you say, you know, you just touched on a lot of categories that the training covers, but what were your biggest ahas as you were going through this huge certification of really realizing how different this was

[00:15:59] and how you needed to provide a really different service? Okay, so aha moments for me, there were, I mean, so many of them. One thing I would say is that you're not, in dealing with a senior, especially if it's someone who has children, right? You have to deal with two different emotional viewpoints, right?

[00:16:24] That the adult children often experience this transition quite differently. And so it's not just managing, you know, the seller of the home. It's not just managing their emotional process. You kind of have to act as the mediator as well with the adult children, right? Because they're going through their own process.

[00:16:45] They have a lot, you know, the seller of the home or the person living in the home is going through a process of breathing, right? Whether it's the loss of their home or the next phase of their life. And as I mentioned before, things, all the things tied up in the home for them. The adult children is really grieving the change of their parent, right?

[00:17:06] And maybe the loss of their childhood home or, you know, and how this transition also impacts their life that usually has a lot going on as well. So just realizing that there are so many different components to this, that it's really not just a simple transaction. This is like a multi-phased process. Multi-generational, multi-phase. Exactly, exactly.

[00:17:31] And the emotional timeline and the transaction timeline are often completely different. Isn't that true for everything also? Yes. Wow. I think that's such a profound statement for this topic. Tell me more about that because I love that concept. Yeah, I mean, because as realtors, right, real estate agents, we know the transaction timeline, right? And it's very, you know, it's a checklist. It's black and white. We know exactly how that's going to happen.

[00:18:01] That isn't necessarily how, like, for example, one of the people that I worked with, actually, I also just did another one of selling a childhood home. You know, you think you have this conversation, for example, say, in, you know, March, and you think, okay, we're ready to go. But, you know, it might be December or January before you're actually moving forward on things. Because there's a lot to process.

[00:18:24] And another thing that I, in working with the CSA, and with the certification, you, the Society of Certified Senior Advisors holds meetings every month, right? And where you, they bring someone in who also supports senior living or senior citizens or seniors in transition. One of them was a, I guess you would call her an organizer.

[00:18:49] It was a company that specifically, that specializes in working with seniors in inventorying and cataloging possessions in the house, right? Because think about that, right? I mean, 40 years and stuff. Well, right, exactly. But, you know, I like to think that I don't keep a lot of stuff. But I guarantee you, when it comes to the point that my kids have to clean out my house, they're going to be like, I can't believe mom kept all this stuff, right? Like, why did she keep all of this? So their point was, don't wait.

[00:19:17] Like, don't wait until you're leaving it for your kids to do all of this. Have, you know, have someone come in and help you and decide. Because, and I'm getting a little off topic here, but I think it's, you know, something that you wouldn't think about, right? We kind of assume, right, with all these belongings or things that our parent left, like, what is sentimental? What has sentimental value to our parents? Do we really know? Like, what is there something that they really want us to keep and pass down?

[00:19:44] Better to have those conversations while your parents are still alive versus trying to figure that out once they're gone. And so the whole point of this service was that they come in and they help you do all of that, right? Like, let's decide what's important. Let's decide it's not just a matter of a will and who are you leaving things to. It's the sentimental piece of it, right? And making sure that, you know, that things that are important to them carry on. I love this concept, too.

[00:20:12] We had a gal come into our office who specializes in working with an older demographic. And her sensitivity to those decisions I thought was really beautiful. Yes. And how they walk people through kind of the categorization of everything that's in their house. And then how do we walk through, okay, we're not ready to talk about this item yet. Let's put it aside for a minute. We'll talk about it later. And what I loved about that in concept also was it would be a first step to a client who thinks, yeah, I'm ready to list my house.

[00:20:40] And you're thinking, I don't know if you are. Bringing in someone like this to start the process could be a really nice first step to begin the emotional transition before the house and the listing and the money and, like, all of that, right? Like, the organization actually is a pretty key piece, I think, for the emotional timeline if you bring in the right person. So hire the right people for these clients because you certainly don't want someone coming in and stressing them out and, you know, freaking them out.

[00:21:10] But someone who really does know what it feels like to look through all your items from your whole life and sort through them. Right. And do it respectfully and with honor, right? I mean, and that's a big piece that keeps coming back to honor. You have to honor these people, right? Like, they've lived a long life. They've accomplished a lot. They, you know, they have a lot of things. Like, honor their wishes and what they want. And that's sort of a recurring theme throughout it, too, just to be respectful of seniors.

[00:21:38] And really, another aha moment that came up was that, you know, in the way you communicate with seniors, right? And it's not about talking louder, talking slower. I mean, and it is sometimes. But being very direct with them, right? And making sure that you are communicating to them in a way that they understand. And don't just assume that they're grasping everything that you're saying.

[00:22:04] Because you have to, when you're dealing with senior citizens, you have to constantly assess whether they're making a fully informed decision, right? Knowing the information, understanding the information versus simply agreeing to something just because they're feeling overwhelmed. Which does happen. Yeah. Right? And it's hard for them to stop and say, hey, not always. But sometimes it can be hard for them to stop and say, hey, I don't understand this. Can you explain it to me? And sometimes that's happening two or three times, right?

[00:22:32] And as a professional, right? As a real estate agent, as a CSA, you just need to make sure that you're communicating with them in a way that they understand and then feel confident in the decisions that they're making. Which can be really tough to do. Let me ask you this. And I am going a little off topic here as well. But I have had clients, older clients who are solo. I've had older clients, as you said, who I also have a child in the mix.

[00:23:02] Which for me sometimes is peace of mind because I know that someone else is hearing what I'm saying. Someone else is there to translate if needed for their loved one. Yeah. Also that they're hearing the decisions made by their parent. And then there's this whole other category of like, okay, is there a financial advisor? Is there a CPA? Is there someone at the assisted live-in facility? Like how much sensitivity do you need to have around your role and your lane?

[00:23:31] And when you make sure some other experts might be in the mix or make sure somebody else is in that meeting or CC'd on that email. Like how much sensitivity do you need to have to all of that? Because I certainly would not feel like I have the expertise to talk someone to their financial decisions. So what if they don't have a financial advisor? Like how do I support if there's not a child there or sister or brother there to like do that for them and build them a team? Yes. Yes.

[00:24:01] Very perceptive of you, Sarah, I have to say. Right? So yes, because the same thing. I've had instances where I can, like in speaking with someone, you can tell, right? That they have, you know, they're making well-informed decisions. Like they understand everything. You know that. I've also had situations where I could tell they don't. And I've had to involve family members. And sometimes it's pulling in not a child, but a sister or a brother, you know, to help make sure that they're being guided correctly.

[00:24:29] But yes, if you've got someone who's on their own, and again, I'll bring it up with getting the certification. There was a whole section on the CSA or through the studying and on the exam about pulling in professionals. And it actually is very similar to what we do as real estate agents, right? Like we do not advise on tax. We don't give tax guidance. We don't give, you know, construction advice. We don't give, you know. So there are things as real estate agents we know not to advise on, right? It's just not our lane. Although we might have.

[00:24:59] Stay in your lane legally and from a liability. Yes. You know, and sensitivity to the fact that this is their money. Like make sure they're getting good advice. Right. And from a good professional. Exactly. And so it's the same thing in working with senior citizens, right? Like you need to know you should, again, not be advising on taxes or anything financially related. You should not be advising on anything medically related.

[00:25:25] And another big portion of getting in probably one of the, I don't know if I would say one of the toughest, but just, you know, like you have to learn about all of the different things that affect seniors from dementia to, you know, to falling to physical risks. And we learned all of that. And so they very much are clear. And I think, and I would, not to assume for you too, but for me, that's a very easy part for me.

[00:25:52] Like I never want to be the person giving advice in an area that I should not be giving advice in. And I don't mean because I think I shouldn't be giving advice because I truly am not qualified to be giving advice. Right. And, and that is something that I think regardless of age, we owe our clients, right? Like give them, get them in touch with the right professionals to make sure they're getting the right advice. So same thing with seniors, right? Like, and so even, yeah.

[00:26:19] And, and for example, with one of my clients, I did introduce her and I always, I tend to, I don't want to just give them one. I'll give them a few options. I don't want to guide them just to one person, but like, for example, with the sale of her home, she was going to be getting a large sum of money from the proceeds. And so I put her in touch with a financial advisor, a couple actually, for her to get guidance there. Also an accountant, right? To deal with the tax implications of that.

[00:26:47] And just, you know, at least advise them to seek professional help or give them resources, you know, for that professional help. To make sure that they're, you know, being taken care of. And in using that as an example, like I knew enough to know that there are going to be capital gains implications. Right. That's the case. I just had to remind some clients about this the other day and they had totally forgotten that that was coming. Right. Yeah. So our job to remind them of that, not to calculate them. Right.

[00:27:17] Or to deal with them. Hey, yeah. But to remind them. And even as I mentioned, I used to be an accountant, right? That was my job. I know enough at this point. I mean, that was a long time ago. I know enough to be dangerous. I can speak somewhat intelligibly about it. But I am not going to be giving advice to people. I'm going to always send them to someone who is currently practicing as a CPA or a financial advisor. And that's our role. That's our job, I think. Yeah. Gosh.

[00:27:46] I had a really interesting experience in the past couple weeks on two different deals. One were clients that have lived in their home for 35 years. They are moving to a way more kind of low maintenance ADA facility in Chicago. And even the understanding of where is our money? Oh, we have two mortgages. Oh, I forgot that we remortgaged or we refinanced and now we're with this person.

[00:28:14] Or that loan had been sold. Oh, yeah. We've got that HELOC. Like organizing their finances with title took a lot more time than even was really in the timeline. And they did. They're very with it. They did a phenomenal job of kind of pulling it together. But I think those conversations at the beginning, too, around I was kind of liaising with their realtor in Chicago.

[00:28:37] And I wanted them to make sure that they were not looking in a price point that wasn't the money that was going to come out of the sale. And so, again, not a financial advisor, but the other agent and I were kind of in close touch on, okay, where are they looking? Here's where we're listing this house. I don't know what their cap gains are, whatever, but let's just make sure they're looking in the right zone so they don't get into trouble. And that was kind of front of me throughout the process.

[00:29:04] And then on the flip side of it, in terms of the multi-gen experience, my buyers just bought a house that this family had been in since 1979. They bought the house here in Boulder for $70,000. It's now worth multi-millions. It was this stunning, charming home. It needs a lot of maintenance. But the house is full of gorgeous stained glass.

[00:29:27] And the night before the closing, the daughter of the sellers, I think, had a little bit of a panic attack around, oh, my God, this is the house my parents have been in for 50-plus years. She probably grew up there and all of a sudden remembered that someone they knew had done the stained glass. And it became this last-minute kind of negotiation around, well, wait, we need all the stained glass. And that's a pretty big ask the night before closing.

[00:29:52] So anyway, it was an interesting two weeks, I think, because I really have been in both sides of that mindset and really kind of seeing so many emotions. And even at the closing table, you know, there were some mental kind of dementia elements to the closing. So I had to talk to the title person about that and their comfort level on actually getting those signatures. And there really is a lot of this. And there is a lot to think about.

[00:30:21] And I think this training is such an elevated version of that level of expertise for sure. Yeah, no, absolutely. I have to tell you, I'm very curious about the stained glass and what happened. You know, my clients are renovating the home. And so I did a little zoom out. I'll be honest. At first, I was like, oh, my God, wait, what? And it's so beautiful. My clients didn't want to lose it. I'm imagining it. Wow. Gorgeous. We wanted it. A friend made it.

[00:30:48] So my clients felt, you know, really sensitive to the fact that it was sentimental to them. And so it was this push and pull. And we zoomed out. And at the end of the day, my clients are going to renovate the house. They may keep wanting the pieces, but, you know, they probably won't keep the whole house of stained glass. It's probably not going to match their aesthetic moving forward, their modern aesthetic. And then the daughter wanted one of the pieces. And there's one door that's really beautiful. And so we just said, hey, we can't do anything tonight. There's a lot of many parts.

[00:31:17] Can we make sure we have your contact info? And when we do swap this door out in the next six months, you will be our first call. And you can get it. Yeah, that's great. Beautiful resolution. Thank goodness they weren't buying it because of the stained house. She wanted to hold on to something. Yeah, no, I get it. And it was really special. And so I get it. And I think they're going to be really happy that that is going back to her. And that's a nice connection between them. But it is. It's a lot to think about.

[00:31:43] And a lot, I think, to support someone in this way and really take on the responsibility of helping them through this next transition, as you said. I want to talk about one category, which is this, selling a home and moving into assisted living. Because what we see a lot here in Boulder is folks who are trying to get into an assisted living facility and they're on a wait list. Mm-hmm. And so they kind of list their house, but they can't really move until they get into assisted living.

[00:32:12] Like, talk to me about the group of folks who don't quite know where they're going yet and how you learned about, like, what those options look like. And like, what is your role even in that? Or is there any role in helping them into the next step? Yeah, I think there absolutely is a role. And it depends on, right, the person and what they want and how much of a role you're going to play. But with...

[00:32:41] I'm trying to say how to formulate this answer. So if it's someone where they want to go into assisted living... Now, hold on, Sarah. Let me think because I had an answer. Say the question again because I can't think of the answer. You know, where my head is, is like, okay, maybe somebody's leaving their home and they're a couple and they've like figured out what they want to go and they're waiting and that's fine. But I'm thinking more about the folks that know they need to go somewhere and are maybe not sure where that is or maybe they're solo. Yep.

[00:33:11] And you're kind of the first one to say, here are your options. Yes. I got it back now. Thank you. Okay. You can't go all the way to like... Right. You know, taking them there. Like, how do you... So for me, for my experience, and you know, this is my experience, I can't say that this is what everyone would do, but it was sort of figuring it out as you go. And I've had a couple of different scenarios now. So one where it was, you know, okay, where does this person want to go? Right.

[00:33:38] And really asking them and if there's no one else around, because a lot of times these are conversations that children will be having with their parents or spouses will be having with each other. But when it was just one person, it was really a matter of, you know, her not knowing and us looking at all the different options. Yeah. And so then I took it upon myself to educate myself on in my area, what are our options for assisted living for...

[00:34:04] And right again, and there's different levels of care that a person may need. In this scenario, it was, she would be fine with assisted living or I'm sorry, independent living, not assisted living, right? Assisted living requires... In-home care, independent living, assisted living. Right. And then full-blown medical attention. And so this person was going to be fine with independent living, which basically means that

[00:34:31] you're in a facility, you come and go as you please, right? You know, they do, and every place is different, so I don't mean to generalize. But you know, for the most part, like they're making your meals for you. But you have your own place. You are living independently. You're not requiring services from anyone. But you're living in sort of a protected space with a lot less maintenance and work that needs to be done, right? Like you kind of, it sounds great to me, right?

[00:35:00] If you find the right place, like I would take that right now if I could some days. But so it was a matter of then going around and educating. And we, I literally went with this person to, I think we went to four different independent living centers, right? And then we're also looking at, okay, because a lot of independent living centers then can transition. They will then also provide the next step when additional medical support is needed.

[00:35:27] So, and we weren't necessarily worried about that at this point. It was really about finding the right home for this person. And so we look at that. We looked at, could it be an apartment, right? Like, could this person go live in an apartment? And maybe would that be the better fit? Elevator and ADA, you know, accessible bathrooms and chat. Yes. Should this person go back and live closer to family, right? Or, you know, siblings or things like that. So it's really, I mean, it's not like you can say, okay, here are the steps that you can take.

[00:35:55] For me, it was educating, right? And this was before I even had the CSA that I did this. So, you know, going into the CSA, I already had a pretty good breadth of knowledge about, you know, what's out there, at least in my, in California. Um, but it's, it's really a matter of just getting the information and figuring out. And then it is what you mentioned about the timing is tricky because a lot of times it is hard. You have to wait for a space to come up. Right.

[00:36:22] And so, you know, we were not in that position here, but that absolutely happens. Um, and again, it's going to depend on the house too. So it's, it's hard to say like, oh, here's what you would do specifically in this situation. We were going to sell her home to a developer. You have a lot of flexibility when you do that. So in certain areas of Los Angeles, there are neighborhoods that have older homes and the tendency, right.

[00:36:49] Is to, you know, there are certain homes that it's more common to renovate, to take an existing home and renovate it and, you know, update it and so forth. And then there are neighborhoods in Los Angeles where it's more, more, um, what's the word? I just lost the word. More probable, likely, usual, more normal, something. Because with a C, I can't think of what it is. Yeah. Common, more common that they will tear the home down and build a new home.

[00:37:15] And in those situations, and even, I mean, I think usually when you're working with a developer, there's going to be a lot more flexibility than if you're selling to someone who is looking forward to moving into the home. So in this scenario. And there's no flexibility in that timeline. Yeah. Right. Exactly. And so we had a lot of flexibility. You know, you can do a lease back. You can do a longer escrow. You can, to make sure. Um, and, and fortunately for us, spaces were available. We didn't have that issue.

[00:37:43] Um, but you know, I, I just worked with someone, a senior who we very similar to the situation you were talking about. He moved into a smaller home, right? We found another home for him again, made sure it was in the right price point, right? Thinking ahead, making sure that we're thinking of the things that our clients may or may not be thinking of. And we found him a new home. Uh, and so it's, and again, but that was right for him and his situation, right?

[00:38:10] Like he still is very, you know, able to do everything that you need to do to be a homeowner. So, um, that situation that worked out, but again, working with the timing of that, right? Like it's with that situation, it was more when I, the, the comment I made about the transactional timeline versus the emotional timeline. That one was a little bit of a surprise to me because. Yeah. We extended that a lot farther than I would have expected. Right.

[00:38:35] And, and, and it was never said to me directly, but I could see as, you know, looking at the situation, that's what was happening, right? It was the, the emotional timeline needed to catch up with the transactional. Yeah. I mean, look, a 30 day close for someone who is 30 is fast as heck. So if you can imagine not really knowing how quickly something would sell or assuming your house is going to take a long time for it to sell and, and somebody walks up on day one,

[00:39:04] that is a pretty big shock to the system. And you brought up a great point, which I think is, you know, just the theme of resource yourself and resource them, get them a team. If you feel like you're out of your lane. And then if you don't know where all the assisted living facilities are in your town, or you don't feel comfortable doing what you did, which is driving them around, pick up the phone to one of those places and say, Hey, do you have any consultants that specialize in this? I know there's folks that do that for their, you know, as consultants, they can sit down

[00:39:33] with someone to talk them through all their options. They know the differences. They can set you up with that organizer. They can set you up with someone who can speak to you specifically about your options. And so don't feel like you have to put that on your plate if you don't want to, but get curious about setting them up with the right people so they can get those questions answered. And that's what I think for anyone, if anyone is listening to this, right, who is, you know, potentially has a situation with an aging parent or whatever, that's really where the value

[00:40:00] of working with a CSA comes in because you know, they have those resources versus like for me, the first time I worked with a senior and we do this as real estate agents, right? You figure it out. You do what you have to do and you learn what you need to learn. But now I have those resources. I know exactly who to go to. I know who to call. And the one thing I want to mention, because when you just talked about bringing in the right professionals, there are people and some people do this as CSAs, but there are

[00:40:29] people who just pair people with assisted living, independent living, you know, facilities. Like that is how they make their living. They know the differences, the pricing, the weightless. And they can, you can come to them and say, this is what I want. This is my price range. And they can say, let's go look here, here, and here. I did wind up finding and connecting with one of those people after I had already done my search with one of my clients. But, you know, now I have that resource. And, you know, what people should know is that you think, oh, I don't necessarily want to

[00:40:59] pay for that. I can do that myself. I'll do that. No, you don't pay them, right? The facilities pay these people to help them match up the right people for the facility. So, you know, yes, there is a commission in there and you want to be aware of that, but it's not coming out of your pocket. And it still should be your choice as to which facility is the right facility for you. Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, if you don't feel comfortable with that, obviously, especially if someone is solo, you know, build them a team and people that they like and trust.

[00:41:28] And then you can kind of stay in your real estate lane, knowing that they are learning what they need to learn and making informed decisions on the other side. And I want to dip back into something you brought up earlier and just make sure we fully covered it because I think the family dynamics piece is really complex. Yes. Beyond just the surface level of, yep, there's different people, kids are processing their parents' experience, parents are experiencing their own experience.

[00:41:56] What other kind of big ahas were there for you in terms of that multi-gen piece as the realtor? What else do we need to think about? Well, so one thing, and it's not necessarily multi-generational, but siblings. Ah. Right? Like either dealing with or the death of a parent, selling a childhood home.

[00:42:22] You're dealing with adult children who have a whole lifetime of history behind them, right? There's a lot there. And so that, you know, and a lot of times it's different personalities. Everyone is very emotionally charged in these scenarios usually, or at least during portions of them. Because as you know, in any transition or real estate transaction, it can be a bit of a roller coaster sometimes, right?

[00:42:50] It's our job as agents or as CSAs, right, to try to minimize the bumps that you're going to hit and make sure that you know that we're on a steady path the whole time, right? Like we keep that steady path. But yeah, so just knowing. And that aha moment was really more from experience than getting licensed as a CSA, right? That was just from dealing with different scenarios and learning how to navigate different personalities.

[00:43:19] And again, it really just comes, you have to really be able to take a step back, try to understand what they're going through, where they're coming from, and dealing it in a way that is sort of listening to everyone, right? Ultimately still honoring the senior involved, right? If the person, if we're talking about a parent who is still alive, right?

[00:43:44] Still honoring what they want, but in effectively dealing with all the different personalities and communicating with them. So that was something that, you know, I think when you go through it a few times, you get better at it every time because it's, you never quite know what's coming. But when you can really, I hate to say, like put yourself in their shoes or try to, right, realize that maybe what they're saying isn't really what they're meaning or realize where

[00:44:12] it's coming from, then it's easier to navigate those rough spots. It seems like with this group, there's a lot you want to cover before you even start talking about the house. Yes. There's a lot of questions to ask around, you know, finances or have you this, or do you have a financial advisor? And like, you've got to cover a lot of bases before you even say, okay, let's start talking

[00:44:40] about this property because a lot of things have to be in play. That's absolutely right. And so, and by no means, like being a CSA is not tied to being a real estate agent, right? There are so many CSAs out there. Yeah, no, CSA, that's a designation that could be for anyone who wants to work with seniors, right? Even the organizer that I mentioned before, and I forget the name of their company, or I would absolutely mention it right now.

[00:45:04] But they have certain people within that organization have their CSA designation, right? So you don't have to be a real estate agent. A CSA designation is for anyone who wants to work with seniors because it really does cover the whole spectrum. Like when you were just talking about medical power of attorney. Yeah, that's absolutely. I mean, I know we think about the financial piece of it, but think about your health too. Like what medical directives do you want to give? What if you're incapacitated, right?

[00:45:33] Like, yeah, like these are important decisions that no one wants to think about, but you have to, because it could be a reality at some point. So it's covering, the CSA certification covers so much more than anything about selling a home. But I would say in getting it, what it does do is that it helps you realize that it's not about learning. A CSA is not about learning how to sell to seniors.

[00:46:01] It's about learning how to support seniors. Yeah. So it's not about how to be a real estate agent with senior citizens. It's about how to support senior citizens in every aspect of what this transition might mean. You know, I'm interested in, you know, for those folks who might not make the full commitment like you did and get the CSA training, but want to be informed about maybe things that should give them pause.

[00:46:30] Red flags in terms of not just pursuing this client because it's a great listing. Um, but really being sensitive to making sure the right people are on board. You know, I'm, I am sure the title companies near you, wherever you live would have great advice. I'm sure there's trainings that are a one-on-one level for realtors, you know, especially as relates to fraud right now. Like inform yourself, resource yourself about that so you can tell your clients.

[00:46:58] But, you know, I'm wondering from your perspective, and again, I'm going a little bit off script here, but what are the red flags that aren't maybe so obvious in terms of like, wait, wait, wait, stop. There's some bigger considerations here beyond a normal client. You know, obviously mental health would be a big red flag, but what other things in terms of your training as a realtor now with both these trainings would make you say, hold up.

[00:47:27] We need to deal with this a little bit differently because just like any other realtor, right? If someone calls me and says, I want to buy a house and it's a town that I'm not familiar with. If it's a type of property I'm not familiar with, I am obligated to refer them out or pull someone else onto my team so that they are getting the right expertise, right? That is my obligation. Absolutely. In the instance, you've never worked with a senior before, you get a call and you think, oh, this is awesome.

[00:47:56] This is this gorgeous listing, blah, blah, blah. Where should you pause and think a little bit more about this audience and if you are the right fit? Yeah, no, absolutely. So I would say if you don't have the background and you've not done it before and you don't know what this is going to entail, I think you need to really take a step back and ask

[00:48:22] yourself if you have the bandwidth to take this on because there's going to be a lot of learning involved. Is it something that you want to do, right? You have to truly be willing to care for this client in a way that requires more than you would for your average client. Again, this is not a home sale. This is a life transition that you're helping someone with. It is not about selling the house.

[00:48:51] You are now, this person needs your support. They need you to be, you know, really having their back in so many more ways than just selling their home. Mm-hmm. And it might be, right? Maybe if they do have a child, someone who lives nearby or who's very involved in the process, maybe it is something that's a simple home sale. But if you're seeing that maybe this person is on their own, right?

[00:49:19] Doesn't have siblings, doesn't have children. Maybe this person has health concerns. Maybe they do not have all of their mental capacity. And you can tell that, right? Like how many risk factors, how complex is the layout of risk factors? Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree with that. Look at the big picture. Exactly. Are they alone? How is their mental health? Do they have a clear sense of their finances? Or do you get the sense that maybe they don't have any idea? Do they know where they're going?

[00:49:48] And I would say, look, just like anything else, as they kind of say in our training, if there's any doubt that you're not, that you're getting in over your head, find someone who isn't. Because this is someone's life. It's their finances. You check the wrong box and they're losing thousands of dollars. Like just if there's any doubt that you're not ready or resourced, get somebody. I would put this, and you said it beautifully, actually. I would put this in the same category of something different, right?

[00:50:17] Like if you're not experienced in a certain area of town that you need to be experienced in, refer your client out. If you sell residential real estate and your client, and I mean, it's still residential, but your client is now looking at investment properties. You've never done it before. You're not comfortable with it. Refer it out. Same thing with dealing with senior citizens. It's not the same as just working with a normal single person, family, whatever.

[00:50:40] There are certain sensitivities that you need to have, an effort that you're going to need to be willing to put in. And it's to the point now where I've done it enough and I'm educated enough that as soon as I meet someone, I know exactly what I need to do. Yeah. I know who they need to talk to. I know the challenges we're going to face. I know, you know, I know how to make this person feel cared for.

[00:51:06] And so it's something that, you know, until you have enough education and experience, it's not just a walk in the park, I would say, right? There's more to it. Don't take this lightly. Don't take this responsibility lightly. Um, we've covered a lot. I am so glad we're talking about this. I feel like I'm in this professionally and personally right now, just all of these considerations. And so this feels really front of mind for me, for those people who listened to this and

[00:51:35] said, yes, I love everything about that. I want to be that person for someone. I want to help, um, some of those older clients navigate all of these elements. Where can they go for this training? I think you said CSA. Is it like, can you take the training anywhere? Like, where do they go? No, it's, it's actually, um, you sign up through the Society of Certified Senior Advisors. That's, it's a national certification.

[00:52:01] So Society of Certified Senior Advisors, you go online, you sign up, they send you the materials, you take the classes online, you take the tests online. And then once you complete the course, you register and you take, uh, you know, at a local testing site, you sign up for the test and you take it there. Okay. So, but it's, it's about a, I'd say it easily three month, more like six month commitment to doing it. Solid commitment. Yeah.

[00:52:29] Well, and, and let me ask you one more question, which is, I think, you know, I know you well at this point. And so I know the answers to this, but you know, I always say that I'll never give up first time homeowners because that feeling of helping somebody buy their first home. And yes, there's more emotions and there's a lot more education. And I live for that. It's so fulfilling to feel like I'm walking them through a really big emotional transition, not just a transaction.

[00:52:58] This is that times 10. It really is, as you said, taking care of somebody and really knowing what your expertise is, helping them through a very difficult transition potentially. And so I can imagine for someone like you, the ability to have this also be really fulfilling and a very fulfilling part of the diversification of your career path is also there.

[00:53:25] For those that are called to this, it could be a really amazing way to kind of enrich your professional experience. It's so much more than a job, specifically dealing with senior citizens, right? It really, it feels more like, it doesn't feel like a job. It feels like something bigger than that, right?

[00:53:51] Something bigger than me, something, just being able to, it's really, I guess, an honor to be able to be a part of that, right? It's something so significant at the end of someone's life, really, right? I mean, and not necessarily the end of their life, but their final years. Their final years of life, and you're a big piece of it. Yeah, what an honor, as you said. I love that word. And if you do it the right way, it's an honor. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:54:17] For people who, for realtors who don't feel like this is their calling and they get that phone call or email, is there a way to find agents that have this training? Like how can, you know, beyond just asking around and maybe that is the answer to this, is there a directory or, you know? You know, I actually don't know a definitive answer to that, but I would assume if you're reaching out to the, and I'm going to look into this, Sarah.

[00:54:46] Or ask your brokerage, ask your sales manager. If you reach out to the Society of Certified Senior Advisors, I'm sure they have a list of, I mean, they know that I have my CSA. They know I'm a real estate agent. I'm sure, right? They have the same in their registry of CSAs across the country. Yeah. But tune back in and we'll give you an answer. Tune back in. Come back for the sequel on that. Yeah. No, I think that would be an amazing resource, obviously. You know, if you don't feel like this is something you want to take on,

[00:55:15] then, you know, what is the avenue for finding someone? And, you know, I'm sure you could talk to your brokerage or sales manager. There's got to be some folks wherever you are locally that specialize. Or maybe we backtrack and you give that retirement home a call. I'll bet you anything they're, you know, they're getting calls from folks as well. So maybe backwards engineer that a little bit. Well, and that's what I was going to say. I mean, that's the other thing is that I'm now fostering relationships, right?

[00:55:42] With the people at those centers to say, hey, if you have someone, right? Like I'm, this is, I want to help. I love this. Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, that's a great idea too, to maybe like go in and do some education or folks who are preparing to sell. I think what a nice kind of connection to make in the community. I want to get back to you as a realtor just for a second in our last few minutes, if you've got a few.

[00:56:08] You have come off to me from the very first time I met you as someone who's incredibly invested in their community. You love Venice. You love the area. You've got kids. You have kind of your finger on the pulse of what's happening around you. And I would love to hear from you beyond this, which I see this as an investment in your community. I really do. An investment, obviously in individuals and an up-leveling of your expertise. Yes. But it's an investment in your community.

[00:56:37] It's a service you're providing to the people around you. What else do you do in the Venice community that feels really important to you as a person and as a realtor? Yeah, sure. So, you know, I've done a couple of things for my community and thank you for saying that because I do love Venice. I love, you know, being a part of it. And I love trying to create community within our community. That's, I say that a lot, actually. Oh, I love that phrase. Right?

[00:57:05] Like we have, I've lived and actually started, you know, when I had my corporate job and my kids were young, I kind of was just, you know, sort of doing my thing in my house at my place of work and wasn't as invested in my community. And when I became a real estate agent, I realized like, gosh, I've lived in this neighborhood now for, I guess it was 15 years at that time or 14 years. And do I really know my neighbors?

[00:57:32] Like I know my immediate neighbors, but why don't I know the neighbors down the street? Why don't, you know, like I shouldn't. And that's funny how real estate does that. It's such a, I think it's such a beautiful, like by-product of this job is you, you meet everybody. I get to know. I've got six steward guys in my phone and I adore them. Like I've got, you know, you, your community does really multiply in a beautiful way. It does. And even, I mean, like you said, it's, it's not just neighbors, it's service providers

[00:58:00] that I consider friends now, right? Like that I, you're so comfortable calling. But so the first thing that I did was I created a calendar, you know, Venice is sort of known as being dog town, right? From the surf. Seaboys, yeah. Whatever, whatever, right? And so I'm an animal lover, always have been my entire life. I love my dogs. So I do a calendar called the dogs of Venice and it is all about my, this, the community of Venice and the people's dogs.

[00:58:30] It's not about homes. It's not about where they live. It's about their dogs. And so. It's so fun. Yeah. My husband takes the photos, right? We write, we get all the fun facts about the dogs from the owners, you know, what they like, what they don't like, funny stories. I write a little blurb about the dog. We have photos. I have, you know, dog quotes. Like it's, it's basically all about dogs and community. You'd be surprised how many dog quotes there are out there from. Oh, I'm sure. I talk, I talk for my family dog. Yeah.

[00:59:00] Yeah. Right. Well, happiness is a warm hug or wait, happiness is a warm puppy. Right. Charles Schultz said that like, so every month has a new quote from someone and Norma Bombeck, like there's quotes from everyone. Some, everybody's made a comment about a dog at one point or another. So yeah. Include dog quotes. But again, the whole point of this is then I hand them out. Like it's not something I sell. It's not, I hand them out to the community. We've done it for four years now.

[00:59:25] And the point of this is that you see the dog and then hopefully you say hello to the person on the other end of the leash. Right. Like that you meet and say, oh my gosh, I saw this dog in the calendar. And I know last year we had the cutest hug who is, who passed actually. His name was Boo, but he was on the cover of last year's calendar. And the owner told me that so many times, like little kids, especially little kids love the calendar, ran up. It was like a celebrity sighting when they saw Boo walking down the street.

[00:59:54] They're like, oh my gosh, it's Boo. So, uh, I have to tell you though, Sarah, this is in, you know, me being a little bit newer, right. Being in my six year of real estate. When I started doing it, I was kind of like, isn't this stupid, right? Like it's a dog calendar. I'm a real estate agent, you know, is, but I don't care. Right. It's, it's who I am. I love it. It's a little passion project of mine and it builds, it brings people together. And that's the point.

[01:00:23] And in creating it, it brings me joy. And that's, what's important, right? It brings my community joy. That makes me happy. The other thing, I know I'm talking a lot here, but the other thing that I do is a community yard sale, um, which is we, you know, actually it's only the second one that I've done, but it is where everyone, you know, we have, I don't even know what the entire block radius is of Venice East. It's a very particular area of Venice, but we do a yard sale where, you know, people hold

[01:00:51] their own yard sale in their own yard, but I do all of the advertising for it. I create a map that tells people where the yard sales are. So they do their own yard sale. I do all the marketing and advertising to bring the people in, but we make it, it's not just a yard sale. We make it a community event. So people do like this year, it's coming up at the end of June. Someone's doing a snow cone stand. We have a bake stand. Someone's giving away produce from their organic garden. I mean, it's just, it's a whole kind of community. It's a whole thing. It's and a yard sale.

[01:01:21] So yeah. And right now we still have like three weeks to go or no, it'll be two weeks to go, but we have over 30 people signed up to do it. And so we had 33 last time. I'm hoping we get 40 or more this time. We'll see. I love that. What an authentic way to be in community. And obviously if you get a call two months from now from someone who met you there, great, but that's not the point. The point is it's not the point and make connections with people. Exactly.

[01:01:48] Um, I ask everybody this question at the end of the episode, uh, which is what are the three things right now that you are doing, reading, watching, trying, uh, that are helping you show up as your highest and best self? Yeah. So to show up as my highest and best sleeping, right? I'm trying and I'm really right. Like I really am trying to make sure. And I know that's the basics, right?

[01:02:16] Like, but it is as we get older, super important. So I, but I'm an early riser, so it's going to bed early for me. Like I have to, I, I'm up by like 6 AM. Even if I'm not out of bed, I'm awake by 6 AM. So I'm going to bed early. Um, and really walking my dog. It's not even for exercise, but I've started walking like just to clear my head, just to be.

[01:02:44] And I guess that's, so it's not really just the, the walking. It's the being outside. I'm making sure that I'm spending time outdoors and just breathing and, you know, enjoying the sunshine and kind of taking it in and, you know, reflecting on enjoying being outside. Yeah. I was just going to say, we had a, we, you included, we had a beautiful discussion on a cohort, a coaching cohort that we are on the other day around an agent who was very,

[01:03:12] very busy asked like, you know, is it okay that I'm not resting? Is it okay that I am just like hustling, hustling, hustling? And everybody in the call was like, no, it's not okay. That's right. And so many of the examples were what you just said. They weren't profound. They were water, sleep, go outside for 10 minutes, take those little micro resets during the day because you cannot hustle just to hustle. That, that is not going to serve you.

[01:03:42] And it's not going to make you a good realtor as well. It's going to make you exhausted and not give you the clarity that you need to be in service to your clients or yourself or your family. So it's not sustainable. It seems simple to say walk my dog in water, but it, you know, it, that's, that's what it's all about. Those are foundational. Yeah. I was going to say the last one would be, so my daughter's home from college. She just finished her freshman year. My other daughter's going to be a junior in high school. So it is taking the time, right?

[01:04:11] Even if it's a, you know, I took, we all went to get our ears pierced again, like it's just taking the time. Like I'm trying to, even though things are so busy right now and not just my schedule, their schedules are busy right now too, but it's finding those moments, right? Like my daughter and I went to Disneyland a couple of weeks ago just for, and we're pass holders. So it's easy for us to do, but we went at, you know, left the house at 6 30 AM and came home by noon just to spend the four hours together. And then I went and had photos taken at a house. Right.

[01:04:40] But it's just making sure that you're taking those moments to create those memories because I know how fleeting this time is. And even though I'm super busy, like I do not want those moments to go by the wayside. Like I have to fit them in somehow. So be present. I was in gosh, some sort of training a while ago where they use the phrase non-striving activity. Like we all need to find time for a non-striving activity.

[01:05:09] So that is an activity that has no outcome. There's no goal. There's no out. So it can't be exercising. Unless like you're going to yoga and you're just relaxing. It can't be anything love related. It cannot be anything that's like, gosh, I'm trying to read 36 books this year. Like there has to be no outcome whatsoever. And that could be play music, going outside, playing with your kids, just something where your brain gets to take a break and there's just no outcome besides being present.

[01:05:39] And so I think those three are great reminders. Andy, thank you so much for being on the podcast and talking through all of that with us. I'm so grateful for your friendship and for your time today. So thank you. I feel the same. Thank you for having me. It's been wonderful. Thanks so much for listening. And it's my goal to have this podcast be created for and by agents. So your input is absolutely encouraged.

[01:06:03] If you know another amazing agent, author, athlete, executive, or all around badass woman you think I should interview, or you have a topic or discussion you'd love to see us cover, please email me at sarah.hubbard at compass.com. Thank you.