Creative Innovation Inside City Systems: Leading Denver’s Public Art Program with Jeannene Bragg

[00:00:00] This podcast is powered by the plug. Dot dot dot. Welcome to Dot Dot Dot, the continuing conversation around art, placemaking and how to create meaningful experiences in the built environment, all while making a positive social and financial impact.

[00:00:23] This podcast is hosted by experts at NINE dot ARTS, a national art consulting and creative placemaking firm that helps clients differentiate their projects through the power of art and culture. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Dot Dot Dot. I'm Martha McGee. I'm the CEO of Nine Dot Arts, and I'm thrilled to have our guest, Jeannene Bragg, here today. Jeannene is the director of public art for Denver Arts and Venues.

[00:00:52] Jeannene, we're so happy to have you on the show. Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: Thank you. I'm delighted to be here. Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: So before we jump into these questions, I want to just give a little background because in, you know, many cities around the country, you have people who are running public art programs. Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: And this is truly a harder job than people imagine. Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: There's a lot involved.

[00:01:17] Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: There's, you know, politics, policies, ordinances, and then the artwork itself. Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: So it's a massive undertaking. Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: And, you know, a lot of people kind of can get stifled, you know, or feel stumped in those positions.

[00:01:33] Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: And one thing that has always stood out to me about you, Jeannene, is your drive for innovation, your drive to create systems and processes that support our city, that support our communities, and that provide opportunities for underrepresented artists or emerging artists to have a chance to get their artwork into the public space.

[00:01:59] Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: So I just want to say thank you, because I know it's a difficult job to do, and I so appreciate the mindset with which you've approached all of it. Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: Well, thank you for saying that. Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: You know, it's really interesting. Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: I've always been a really creative person, and in most ways, I'm an artist at heart. But one of my very first jobs just out of school was with the town of Parker.

[00:02:23] Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: And I started when it was a very small place, less than 10,000 people, and I didn't know anything about government. But I learned on the fly, very quickly, and I was there nearly 20 years. Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: And it kind of became a skill set.

[00:02:39] Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: It just kind of was ingrained in me through those years of understanding how government functions and being able to translate it either to the public or, in particular, to artists so that we could work together. Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: Well, and Parker changed so much in 20 years from, you know, horse farms to really more of a metropolis that it is now. So I imagine being a part of that had excitement along with it, too.

[00:03:08] Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: Absolutely. I mean, it was really fun to start at a time when it was so small, and there were very few of us on the team. The whole city, including the police department, all the divisions were in one little building. You know, now, of course, they're spread out across the town. And when I started, I had this very unique combination job where I was running the arts programs but was also doing the city communications because I had been a theater major and then also a journalism minor.

[00:03:38] I guess I somewhat fit both of those roles. And so I had this interesting combination job. Jeannine Bragg, Ph.D.: Well, theater majors are always great on stage and in front of an audience, so you can tell that you can do a good show. Well, the theater major is interesting, too, because you have some background professionally in theater as well, right? Jeannene Bragg, Ph.D.: Absolutely. I still consider myself a working artist in theater.

[00:04:05] And also, more recently, I do mixed media and collage work. And, you know, sometimes it's tough to keep all those things spinning when you've got a really intense full-time job and you're raising kids. But I'm a recent empty nester, so I'm really hoping to get back into some of those things more strongly. So I'm looking forward to that. Awesome.

[00:04:28] Well, I feel like that creativity brings so much to the work that you're doing in the city with the lens with which you approach things and just having this deep comprehension of an artistic process and a creative process. And the Denver Arts and Venues Public Art Program, for listeners that don't know much about it, it dates back to 1988. And there's a 1% for art ordinance in the city of Denver.

[00:04:57] And that's for any municipal buildings or municipal capital projects that have a capital campaign over a million dollars. 1% of that budget has to go towards public art program, which is really incredible. And it's grown to over 530 works of art, which is substantial. So what do you think, Janine, about this public art program?

[00:05:27] What do people know about it? What do people misunderstand about how the policy works or how public art even gets made? You know, there's probably lots of things there. Everybody, I think, is familiar with the blue bear, which is called I See What You Mean. But everyone calls him the blue bear. And people know Mustang out at the airport. Some love him, some not so much. So we have some very, very visible pieces of public art that most people could probably name.

[00:05:56] But as you said, we have over 500 pieces of art in the collection. And most people probably walk by things, maybe even on a daily basis in their neighborhoods or in downtown Denver, and see something. And it might be an interesting thing. But they don't know it's public art. And I always like, when I'm talking to somebody about public art, try to get them to go on our website. And we have a map on there of all the artworks, which is really fun. You should check it out.

[00:06:26] It's like an interactive map. It's pretty cool. Yeah. And so you can go on there and pick where your house is and see what public art pieces are located around you. It might give you a fun little tour of the neighborhood. I think people don't realize that we're in every single council district, many, many neighborhoods. Of course, there's a huge amount of public art downtown. But it extends far beyond that. Yeah. So you've got the kind of big, you know, classic pieces.

[00:06:55] And then the neighborhood scale installations that just beautify, you know, people's daily walk with their dog or their daily commute. And I love that you pointed out the difference between the nickname for the artwork versus I see what you mean by Lawrence Argent, the blue bear. Right. In my mind, I've always thought about what makes a public artwork successful. And sometimes I think, you know, it's just if people give it a nickname.

[00:07:25] Because if people give it a nickname, good or bad, they remember it. They're talking about it. And isn't, you know, in some ways, isn't that kind of what we want? Like art should be there to provoke conversation, to celebrate our communities, to bring joy or ask questions. And in many ways, if an art piece gets a nickname, there's opinions on it. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:07:52] And there's some nicknames out there that we embrace more than others. And, you know, to be honest, there are some artists who or artist families who are particular about the name. Right. And prefer us to use the real name. So I try to use those names as much as possible. Absolutely. That's part of the job. That's what you got to do. Sometimes we do tabling, you know, in public spaces at different festivals and things. And it's always fun for me when the kids come up. And often we have a slide show showing some of the different art pieces.

[00:08:20] And I'm always having kids tell me, like they learned about this in school. Like they talked about the blue bear in school. And they've written stories about them. And so, you know, I had one little girl who was telling me, yeah, I wrote about the blue bear and the Mustang and they were friends. And they went to visit spot at the animal shelter. And then the little boy who was with her, probably her brother, was like, oh, no, in mine, the bear fought the Mustang. Who won? And I didn't find out. I need to read it.

[00:08:49] But I was thinking we should do a compilation, you know, of kids' drawings and kids' stories about the artwork. I could see a whole graphic novel series about this. I think if there was a fight, I'm putting my money on the Mustang. I think maybe the bear would hug it out of him. Put those red eyes to rest. And oh, yeah, I can see it.

[00:09:15] Well, when you think about public art, a lot of times there's government systems are designed around these processes. There's consistency. There's accountability. But also we think of art and artists as people who are creative and taking risks. So how do you balance all of that innovation and that experimentation with the realities of working within a government system? You know, that's the tricky part sometimes.

[00:09:43] And that's why we've got a great staff in Denver. And they do a lot of work to try and figure that out. And each art piece we do is different. So to some extent, we have to use our improvisation skills every day and kind of figure out how do we make this artist's vision work within this pretty specific municipal government box that we work in. And usually we do a pretty good job.

[00:10:08] And one example I like to point to where the artist actually went, to me, kind of beyond the artwork, but showing his creativity is a piece we're actually in the middle of right now called Aspen Light by Poetic Kinetics. And the artist there, Patrick Schoen, had some challenges because we really want to create a canopy for that artwork that spans 16th Street. And if you know anything about cities, it's really tough to span roadways.

[00:10:36] And we have RTD buses going up and down that road. We have the fire department that wants to get to the tall buildings there should there be an emergency. So lots of things people don't think about, though, about what would make it hard to put, you know, a structure across a roadway. And in this case, you know, this one's been really tricky. And I wasn't sure we were going to get it done. But Patrick looked at me and said, you know, give me a shot. I think I can solve this.

[00:11:06] And I'm thinking, how is he going to solve this? And I will admit this is still in testing right now, but he's created a retraction mechanism that would allow this artwork spanning the street to very quickly be retracted in the event of an emergency. And it's this whole kind of engineered spring-loaded contraption to pull that back very quickly.

[00:11:29] And I just marvel at his creativity, not just on the artwork, but on this kind of crazy, amazing solution to make it work. And if this is successful, we may be able to use this in other artworks or when people want to put lights across the street or these other things that are hard to do in a city context. How cool, because that's really an engineering solution coming from a creative mindset.

[00:11:56] And like you said, setting precedent for things that have the potential to transform how we use downtown space. Absolutely. And it's interesting that you say engineering. There probably are some artists who also have engineering degrees, but so many of the artists we work with, particularly those doing sculptural works, they know a lot about engineering, whether they have that degree or not. Yeah.

[00:12:21] They really have to be able to form these things that are going to be safe and durable in the weather and might have the potential to have kids climb on them. Yeah. And all sorts of concerns that you wouldn't really think of when you just see, you know, a piece of artwork sitting there. You wouldn't think how hard they have to work to make it somewhat indestructible and safe while retaining that fun spirit most of the art has.

[00:12:49] Well, I, we both have gotten the pleasure of working with many engineers, I'm sure, over the course of time. And I love being able to bring in a structural engineer onto an art project because you've got to think, you know, in many cases, these guys are, they might be building parking garages, you know, all over. And then we're coming in and saying, hey, we're going to have this thing and it's going to, you know, go up into the sky.

[00:13:17] It's going to blow some fire over here and some water out there. And then, you know, these little pieces are going to, you know, create something spectacular. And it's like no drawing they've ever seen before. So you've got to imagine for both sides, the artist's creative vision and the engineering side, we're just into it. You know, everybody's into solving these problems because they're unique. They're fun problems to solve.

[00:13:44] And if you get the right teams together, you know, with your vision leading the charge and the tenacity to say we're going to get this done, we're going to find a solution. And having an artist in the room to be willing to go down that path with you and then bringing in the right experts, you know, look what's possible. Absolutely. And there are some folks within the city who you might not expect who really love it when they see us coming because they get to do something a little bit different. This is going to be a fun meeting. Yeah.

[00:14:13] We have a couple of real estate lawyers, you know, whose normal work is pretty cut and dry, I would say. And when we come with an artwork challenge like, oh, we need to attach this artwork to this private building or, you know, we need to create an easement so we can put artwork on this space. They are challenged in a good way, though. Mm-hmm. They tend to enjoy that. Ooh, we got a fun one coming in. That's great.

[00:14:41] Well, okay, thinking back to one of the things we talked about earlier, in public art, a lot of times there's artists that you see, you know, that get great experience and kind of repeat throughout. But one of the things I know is important to you personally and professionally is creating opportunities for artists who haven't traditionally had access to those big public commissions. How do you go about it? Yeah.

[00:15:07] You know, that's something we're still looking for solutions to and want to be innovative and talk to a lot of artists about on a pretty frequent basis. Yeah. One thing about the public art process is it's pretty competitive. Mm-hmm. And typically for most, you know, application processes, we get in the neighborhood of 200 applications. That's a lot. And some we've had even more. Yeah. We had one recently with 1,200. That's too many. Yeah.

[00:15:36] And so there's lots of artists who want access to this art. And of course, we want to help as many as possible. And we're particularly interested in our local artists and making sure they have visibility in our collection. So there's a number of different things we do there. One is that we hold sessions. We just had one a couple weeks ago called Public Art 101. And anyone can come to those. Yeah. The team is there.

[00:16:03] We do give a little presentation with some tips and tricks that will help your application be as good as it can be when you're submitting as an artist. And also something people don't realize. I think some people are maybe scared of us or think we're bureaucrats in the office because we're quite available and accessible. And some artists actually call us up and ask, you know, for our input on things.

[00:16:30] It's important to remember we're not picking the artwork ourselves. We facilitate community-based panels and they select the artwork. So we really can play that role as a facilitator and a collaborator and help folks on both sides make the right match. And so sometimes I think artists don't think of us as a resource. And we really wish they would more often.

[00:16:55] You know, frankly, when I'm sitting in my office working on contracts, I don't mind if an artist calls up and says, what do you think about this crazy idea? Or here are the photos I'm thinking about submitting. You know, here's the photos of my murals, but I want to propose a sculpture. How do I make that case? Yeah. And we really, we have helped a number of people do their first public art piece and transition different mediums from time to time.

[00:17:23] I can't say it happens all the time because of the competitive nature. But it is something if people keep trying, because even our artists who have several pieces in the collection have probably had more rejections from us than they have acceptances. So it is a bit of a numbers game. Yeah. And also, as I mentioned, every piece is selected by a community-based panel.

[00:17:47] And the goals of each piece and what they want to see and the type of art they want is pretty different in each case. So one of my biggest pieces of advice to artists is read that RFP when we put it out very carefully. There's a section where we list the goals of the project. And what your job is, is to say that you are a great artist and can make artwork and you can meet the goals of this particular project.

[00:18:16] And I think that's where some artists don't put their best foot forward. Because we do see some folks who kind of just turn in the same statement over and over and over. And it's kind of like they advise with resumes, too. The more you can do to tailor your application to meet the needs of a particular artwork, the better your chances get. And I know that can be a lot of labor for artists, too. I do understand that.

[00:18:46] But look for the ones that you would be most drawn to, that you have a personal stake in, that you really can relate to. And you're always going to show up better in those processes than the other ones. And it is a numbers game, like you said. Pick the ones that feel meaningful and purposeful to you. Tailor your approach, because it does matter.

[00:19:09] And over time, having been on selection panels myself, the names become more familiar. Like, oh, I love that. I recognize that from, you know, a couple ones back before. Oh, man, I hope they get it this time, you know. So the people on panels, I think, do start to become familiar with the type of, you know, with the artist's work. Absolutely. And so does our team.

[00:19:37] And, you know, we don't, we try not to play favorites. But there's often processes where we're really rooting for someone, you know, maybe they're a finalist for the third time. And we're hoping they finally, you know, get that final commission. And sometimes they do. Sometimes they don't. But it's really important to keep trying. And another great resource is we have, you know, a number of artists who've been through the process and are very generous with their time.

[00:20:07] Carlos Fresquez is one I can think of who is often mentoring other artists who are just emerging. Carlos has just done that on his own. And he's helped a lot of younger or less experienced artists get their first commissions. And it's really helpful. So also look around at the artists you might know who have been in the collection. They probably have better tips for you than I even do. Yeah, different perspectives.

[00:20:35] The other thing that I, you know, the city has done over time, too, I think, is shifted some of the approach. For example, you know, you might have the higher dollar value, big commissions, like at the airport when a big thing goes up. And you, you know, to some extent, you're looking for artists that have a resume of experience of working at that level.

[00:20:59] So it does become just a smaller group of people who can kind of be vetted to pass the threshold of understanding how to work at that scale. And at the same time, I feel like the city's done cool things with programs like PSUR Here, which is smaller grant programs and smaller public art pathways that are this entry point.

[00:21:23] You know, because if you're working in your studio and you're kind of creating smaller scale works, but you've got a great idea, you know, you're not, you might not be ready for that seven figure commission. But you might be ready for a five figure one, you know, four or five. So I feel like the city's done a good job of trying to find those entry points at different levels. Absolutely.

[00:21:48] And we're always trying to be innovative within our restrictions and find new ways to do that. One of the most recent processes we did is at the Lina Archuleta Library. And for that one, we did something pretty different than what we typically do. And that panel, you know, still had a theme and strong goals for the project. But they decided to request existing two-dimensional art.

[00:22:16] So, so many of, so much of our work and what people think of as public art is often sculptural. Right. But we also have quite, quite a bit of 2D work in the collection, particularly in indoor spaces like libraries, rec centers, that sort of thing. So in this one, and this is the one we got 1200 applications for. Oh, wow. Which tells me we're on to something. Yeah, you shook a nerve with that one. Yeah. So we asked for existing artworks. We didn't ask the artists to make something specific.

[00:22:52] For that branch of the library. They really focused in on Latino and indigenous themes. They were able to select, I don't remember the exact amount, six or eight different artists. Most of them were local, a couple out of state. A high percentage of those were brand new to the collection. Yeah. And I think what most artists will tell you, though, is once you get that first public art commission, Right. Even if it's a small one, it boosts your credibility. Yes, absolutely.

[00:23:22] And then you say that on your next applications, wherever you're applying, you say, I've had this commission. And then sort of the seal of approval. Absolutely. So we're looking for more ways. And I think you'll be seeing us do more calls like that, where we are asking for existing artworks or smaller scale works, where we can involve more artists rather than one huge thing that is the brainchild of one artist. Yeah, that's great. And it just opens up more pathways for people to get involved.

[00:23:50] And like you said, you're able to retain identity of the neighborhood and the community there, which also makes me think of another question around Denver and how much our city has grown. Because over the past decade, it's transformed quite a bit. And public art can be this way to retain some of that identity. But how do you think about that through the public art program? You know, that's really interesting.

[00:24:19] And I think so much of that comes back to this model we have of community-selected artwork. Because we really do, we don't curate the artwork as much as we curate the panel of people who's going to select the artwork. Right. And we work really hard to get, you know, not just the typical community leaders, although we do always have, you know, a council representative. And we always have someone from our cultural commission.

[00:24:47] But we try to get folks, you know, the average person in the community who lives near that space and feels deeply about it. And they're usually our most impactful people because they, you know, they really care about their artwork and how it will be perceived, how it will make a special place in their community. And I really, I think that's the key, especially as a community or a city grows so fast as we have,

[00:25:17] is making sure the different neighborhoods and the different districts, the different areas retain their unique character. And artwork is one really special way we can do that. Yeah. And hugely important to show our history and how our city is evolving over time. Absolutely. And, you know, you mentioned history. We right now are working on a project a little outside of what we typically do.

[00:25:43] We were able to get a grant from the Mellon Foundation through something they have called the Monuments Project. And right now we're doing a deep dive into the monuments we have, the older artworks and statues that are in Civic Center Park, which, as everyone knows, probably is under construction right now. So along with the construction, we're doing a deep dive into some of those pieces. And I don't think it's any secret that some of those pieces have problematic histories.

[00:26:10] Some of these pieces were done in the 1800s, early 1900s, and were done at a time when not everyone we want represented was represented, and not all stories were told. And so we're working hard, and we're going to be doing a community engagement process starting at the beginning of next year to really learn about how we should treat some of these existing pieces. And do we reinterpret them? Do we remove them?

[00:26:40] Do we recontextualize them? I mean, there's many things you could do with these. But what do we in Denver today and now with the values we hold, what do we want to leave as our legacy as it pertains to some of these historic pieces? And so it's, I don't have all the answers. And there are no best practices across the country. They're grappling with this in all kinds of cities. And, you know, in some of the southern states, it's more about Confederate sculptures.

[00:27:09] Here it tends to be things that, you know, glorify the pioneer settler outlook and leave out many of the indigenous ways of being. So how do we square all those things with our current values? Yeah. Well, it's a huge part of, you know, staying true to values and culture and, you know, the way that views shift over time.

[00:27:35] And then who is in power in those moments and how does that influence what we do? So there's a lot to consider, like you're mentioning, when it comes to public art. And it sounds like by placing a lot of the responsibility onto the community, you know, you're really driving public art by the public. Absolutely.

[00:28:01] And that you have to just have faith that the people of these communities know how best to represent. Absolutely. And someplace like Civic Center Park, I mean, there is a community surrounding that there in the Golden Triangle. But it's also a major and it's a major gathering point for the whole city. So we want to make sure we have a wide diversity of people contributing to that conversation. Yeah. So important.

[00:28:30] When you think about public art and whether it's successful, what in your mind classifies something as a successful installation or a successful work of public art? You know, we joked a little bit ago about nicknames and kids' stories. And I think all that is a piece of what I would say is that the community takes ownership of it. Yeah.

[00:28:55] And there's a piece that probably very few people know about in the city that's a good example of that. And it's, we call it the Villa Park Gateway. And it's a pretty simple artwork at the entrance to a small neighborhood called Villa Park, which is in District 3. And that community hasn't always had a lot of resources provided from the city.

[00:29:23] And they love this small piece of artwork that announces their neighborhood and who they are. And we'll probably talk about this later, but maintenance of artwork is a whole other topic. And it's really tough with 500 plus pieces to keep them all in great shape. Oh yeah. Full-time job or more. Yes, for sure.

[00:29:46] And on this particular piece, one of my team members, Erica Garcia, did just a great job of working with pretty limited resources, but to restore that artwork. And in doing so, it's sitting at this entrance to a neighborhood that isn't the prettiest in terms of landscaping. It's kind of an artwork sitting in a dirt field.

[00:30:11] But she was able to work with the council district and with some partners you might not think of, but folks from Stormwater, because there's no irrigation to this site, so it's really hard to put in your typical plantings. Got it. But are there creative ways we can get water to the site? Could we, in our public art budget, make allowance for some mulch around the piece? And then the neighbors came out in droves, and this is what I'm talking about.

[00:30:39] They really took ownership of the piece. There's people who have been planting little trees out there and hand-carting water from their homes every day to water the trees. That's wonderful. And so it might not be the biggest or the most well-known piece of artwork, but it means so much to that particular community. Yeah. And to me, that's really what makes it successful. And that's what it's all about.

[00:31:05] For you, when you think about public artwork that you love, what comes to mind? I always get asked that question, and it's really hard. I was remembering, you know, I used to read my kids a story called You're All My Favorites, and it's true. I mean, certainly there are pieces that appeal to me more as a human being than others. Yeah. And then there's these ones with a special background or a special story.

[00:31:33] And frankly, with 500 pieces, I don't know all those stories yet. Right. You know, I've been in this position. You could spend a lifetime just learning that. Yeah, a little over two years. And that's one of the best parts of my job is when I learn about these stories behind the pieces. But I think, well, the Villa Park Gateway that I just mentioned is really special to me because of the way that came together and just the care everyone showed and the creativity to updating that piece.

[00:32:01] I think, personally, I love animals, and I'm a real fan of Sunspot over at the animal shelter. I also love that whole cause. But the fact that was made with, I think it's more than 90,000 dog tags. Whoa, I've never heard that stat before. Yeah, to make this big sparkly sculpture of a dog. Yeah. You know, I just think it's whimsical and fun and very relatable. Yeah.

[00:32:31] Kids talk about that one, too. That's great. You know, that one ends up in some of their stories. And then, I mean, there's so many pieces. We are in the middle of a project that probably many people in town are aware of on the Colfax BRT, the Bus Rapid Transit Line. Right. And I know that construction there has been terribly difficult for those businesses there.

[00:32:53] But one little bright spot that we have brought to the table there is that each of those bus stops will have glass artwork. Almost as a canopy over each stop. Cool. And we had the opportunity to involve several artists in that project, including a couple from Access Gallery. Oh, that's great. And they, if you don't know, work with students with different disabilities.

[00:33:20] And so it's great to have them featured in the public art program. And many of the pieces feature stories around Colfax, that kind of Colfax vibe. Yeah. And it's awesome to get to be part of a really big construction project like that. Yeah. Bringing local artists and smaller artists to the table as part of that.

[00:33:45] And we've just opened up sort of the first segment of the Bus Rapid Transit in the last couple of weeks. And we're going to be doing a special event during Arts Week, which is coming up in November, celebrating the artwork. That's so far in place. But it's really only halfway done. Yeah. And we cannot wait to show off the whole corridor to the city. So that's one of my current favorites. I love that. But I have many favorites. I love that.

[00:34:10] Fun fact for listeners, if you don't know, Colfax is also the longest Main Street in America. So I can imagine there's a lot of bus stops. There are a lot of bus stops. Yeah. And this particular project goes all the way through to Aurora. And Aurora has some of their own artwork on their side of the dividing line. It doesn't go all the way out to Lakewood. But what if it did someday? Wow. That would be pretty amazing. Oh, yeah. And, you know, this one was interesting because it's a terribly complex project. Yeah.

[00:34:39] It's really tricky. And it's got federal funding. And it's a massive project that's taking years. But we were able to make it accessible to more artists because we did a design-only contract, which means the artists prepared the design, the artwork that you will see on those glass panels. Yes. But we worked with other people to produce the glass panels and print the artwork onto it. Perfect.

[00:35:07] So the artist really, in that case, just took care of the artwork. And we handled the construction and engineering. I'm saying we handled it, but really the overall project did. Yeah. And that's a great example of sometimes we're able to really integrate into a construction process. And it makes the artwork better and the project better all at the same time. That's great.

[00:35:30] And, you know, now you've got an artist who might be working two-dimensionally, who can get a public art installation on their resume. And then, you know, the world's your oyster from there, really. Yeah, absolutely. And to say you're part of that big piece. Yeah. And, I mean, it's many, many, many millions of dollars. Of course. I mean, that's got to be a great calling card for these artists. Of course. I was thinking about this question today as I was driving in.

[00:35:58] And I was like, oh, I'm going to ask Janine about her favorite artworks in the city's collection. I thought, you know, I better think of my answer. Yeah. What are yours? To that question too. Because, like you said, there are so many meaningful installations that come to mind. But a couple that stood out for me were both installations by an artist named Jim Green. May he rest in peace. And Jim put together these sound-based installations.

[00:36:26] One are these animal kind of zoo-like sounds that come up from the steam grates downtown. And they're just, I think I love them so much because they make me laugh every time. You know, they're unexpected. And they've got this, you know, whimsical, humorous quality to them. And his other installation inside the convention center is on an escalator.

[00:36:54] And the stairs of the escalator, as you step on each one, they laugh. And you just can't help but laugh yourself when all the stairs start laughing. So I love that we have such a diverse collection of art in the city too. You know, you've got sound-based installations that are a completely different experience than having something that, you know, is perhaps more sculptural or traditional.

[00:37:22] And then things that are integrated into the infrastructure like you're describing. Yeah. And again, everybody usually thinks of sculpture. Yeah. And sculpture is wonderful. But there's sound art, light art. We have some different types of technology art in our collection. Yeah. We don't have very much fiber art. So fiber artists are out there. I would love to get some more fiber art in the collection. Yeah. And there's all these up-and-coming new kinds of art.

[00:37:49] We're working on an artist who's doing a process that's somewhat like papier-mâché, but much more durable and somewhat indestructible, we're told. So we're always interested in new forms and these creative things that artists come up with. Yeah. And also on our team, Rudy Cherry is one of our longtime staff members who's done so much amazing work for the community. And he specializes in some of our more unusual pieces.

[00:38:19] He's done dance pieces. He's had music compositions made and really thought outside the box in terms of what is public art. And because we're a city, sometimes there's constraints and we have to have like a built piece at the end. Some of our projects require that. But when we can, we like to go a little bit off the beaten path and, you know, do something unusual. And we're hoping to do a little more of that in the future as well.

[00:38:48] I love that because that just brings a whole new element of community experience, even if it lasts just for a moment, can still bring people together. Absolutely. In ways that you don't imagine. And if the, you know, success of a public art installation is the way that people come together to celebrate it, why not have a dance festival? Why not? Why not? Have a marching band.

[00:39:13] And, you know, we had a member of our commission ask just a month or two ago, well, like, have you ever commissioned a novel as a public artwork? And I thought, at first I was like, I don't know. Could we do that? Yeah. And I haven't figured out the answer yet. But I thought. That'll be the next show. That'll be the next show. But, you know, we do artwork in all the libraries across the city. Right. And maybe we should look into some written word or spoken word. Yes.

[00:39:43] And there's also book arts out there. Yeah. Where artists are making books in all kinds of creative ways. And there's a great spoken word scene in Denver, too. Absolutely. Yeah. And so I just I love to push those boundaries when we can and when it makes sense, you know, for the particular installation we're working on. Yeah. That's awesome. I love that you're thinking in those unique outside the box ways. You're looking to your crystal ball 10 years down the road.

[00:40:11] What's your hope for what our public art says about this moment of where we are and who we are? Yeah. That's that's a great question and a big question. You know, the program's been growing very fast. And that's challenging from our staffing perspective. But it's also a great opportunity with so many potential commissions coming and and artists pay attention next year because we have a bunch of commissions coming down the pike.

[00:40:44] And so I think that's a great opportunity to do. But we have a real opportunity to shape more of the neighborhoods and more of these special places where people gather in the city. And I'm just really looking forward to that. And and frankly, I don't have like a specific vision. I'm not trying to put like my mark on the collection. That's for the artists to propose. And my job is to facilitate that. Right.

[00:41:09] And just making sure we're getting the best art we can with a strong emphasis on our local artists. That's really what what I would like to see. You know, many more successful pieces in the collection that we can all be proud of. Amen to that.

[00:41:26] Well, we're thrilled to be helping you on that journey and look forward to what happens in the next 10 years with Denver's public art program and everything that you're going to accomplish. It's a big lift, but you're definitely the right person for the job. So thank you. Thanks for being there. Absolutely. And I want to thank you to Martha.

[00:41:51] The listeners might not be aware, but we recently went through a process because we have so much on our plates right now in public art. And Nine Dot Arts was the the group that was selected out of a competitive process to help us get some of these projects going. So we're working hand in hand with Martha and her team on many of these art projects and looking forward to that being a really successful collaboration as well. Absolutely.

[00:42:18] There's there's so much exciting work to be done in the city and we're just the tiniest piece of it. But the glimpse into the world of of how you, you know, bring all of these community installations to life is impressive. I mean, it's a it's a incredible endeavor. So thank you so much for being part of the show, sharing your stories.

[00:42:43] And for those of you who are listening in today and want to learn more about you and the work that you're doing, where can they find you? Well, we've got great social media presence. I particularly like our Instagram. So check that out. We do have one specifically for public art, as well as one for the the bigger agency, Denver Arts and Venues. And we have a pretty good website. You know, we're always tweaking it to make it better.

[00:43:08] But it's www.denverpublicart.org. And there you can find these calls I've mentioned resources for artists, the map showing you what's going on in town and many, many other resources. So that's that's where I would start. And you and you can call us, too. And they answer the phone. How cool is that? Well, thank you so much for being on the show.

[00:43:32] I think it's just enlightening to learn more about how you're involving these communities. You know, what other cities can learn from what Denver is doing. If you're a member of the community in Denver and you want to get involved, you can sign up to be a part of the selection panels. If you're an artist, you can learn more about how to apply to these programs like Janine mentioned and put your hat in the ring. You know, there's so many opportunities.

[00:44:02] So stay tuned. We will include links in our show notes today from some of the art installations that we talked about and how to get more involved. But thank you again, Janine. This has just been so enlightening. Absolutely. It's been a really fun afternoon. Thanks for tuning in to Dot Dot Dot, the Nine Dot Arts podcast. To learn more about our guest and some of the topics that we discussed today, check out our show notes at nine.arts.com forward slash podcast.

[00:44:31] Follow us on LinkedIn and subscribe to Nine Dot Arts wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're looking to transform your next project with art and culture, please email us at letstalkatnine.arts.com. Until next time. Bye.